{"id":"court_ctb_1604_22","court":"CTB","case_no":"22-50073","doc_number":1604,"sub_number":22,"doc_type":"EXHIBIT","filed_date":"2023-03-27","title":"Exhibit 22 | | UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT
DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT","summary_zh":null,"summary_en":null,"body_en":"#### **Exhibit 22**\n\n| | UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT
DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT |\n|---------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| In Re | * Chapter 11
*
* |\n| HO WAN KWOK, | * Case 22-50073(JAM) |\n| Debtor. | *
*
* |\n| * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * | |\n| | TRANSCRIPT OF CONTINUED |\n| | 341 MEETING OF CREDITORS |\n| | APRIL 6, 2022 |\n| | Electronically Recorded by the
Office of the United States Trustee |\n| | Transcript Prepared By: |\n| Shelton, CT | Christine Fiore, CERT
Fiore Reporting and Transcription Service, Inc.
4 Research Drive, Suite 402
06484
(203)929-9992 |\n| | |\n\n| Case 22-50073
Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
134 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 3 of |\n|----------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | |\n| APPEARANCES: | | | |\n| For the Debtor: | | WILLIAM R. BALDIGA, ESQ.
BEN SILVERBERG, ESQ.
Brown Rudnick, LLP
Seven Times Square
New York, NY
10036 | |\n| For the U.S. Trustee: | | HOLLEY E. CLAIBORN, ESQ.
STEVEN MACKEY, ESQ.
Office of the U.S. Trustee
150 State Street
New Haven, CT
06510 | |\n| For Logan Cheng,
Creditor: | | JAY MARSHALL WOLMAN, ESQ.
Randazza Legal Group
100 Pearl Street, 14th Floor
Hartford, CT 06103 | |\n| For Pacific Alliance
LP, Creditors: | Asia Opportunity Fund, | DAVID V. HARBACH, II, ESQ.
O'Melveny & Myers, LLP
1625 I Street NW
Washington, DC
20006 | |\n| | | STUART SARNOFF, ESQ.
MAKENZIE RUSSO
O'Melveny & Myers, LLP
Times Square Tower
7 Times Square
New York, NY
10036 | |\n| | | ANNECCA SMITH, ESQ.
Robinson and Cole
280 Trumbull Street
Hartford, CT
06103 | |\n| For Bruno Wu, Weican
Meng and Rui Ma,
Creditors: | | KRISTEN MAYHEW, ESQ.
McElroy, Deutsch, Mulvaney &
Carpenter
One State Street
Hartford, CT
06103 | |\n| For the Official
Committee of Unsecured
Creditors: | | STEVEN STAFSTROM, ESQ.
Pullman & Comley
850 Main Street
Bridgeport, CT
06601 | |\n\n2\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Good morning.
Today is |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | Wednesday, April 6th, 2022.
We are gathered for the |\n| 3 | continued meeting of creditors in the Chapter 11 |\n| 4 | case of Ho Wan Kwok, case no. 22-50073. |\n| 5 | My name is Holley Claiborn. I'm a trial |\n| 6 | attorney in the Office of the United States Trustee |\n| 7 | and I will be conducting today's meeting.
Today's |\n| 8 | meeting is being recorded on a digital recorder and |\n| 9 | is also available for parties to participate on the |\n| 10 | phone.
And there are parties, including the debtor |\n| 11 | and counsel and other professionals, gathered here |\n| 12 | in person. |\n| 13 | Today's meeting is being interpreted, as |\n| 14 | you can hear and our interpreter today is Jeff and |\n| 15 | I'm going to ask Jeff to respond to this oath. |\n| 16 | (The interpreter is sworn.) |\n| 17 | THE COURT:
On behalf of Mr. Kwok we have |\n| 18 | William Baldiga and Ben Silverberg. |\n| 19 | Also on behalf of the debtor we have |\n| 20 | financial professionals Craig Gelbert and Matthew |\n| 21 | Flynn. |\n| 22 | Present here today on behalf of the |\n| 23 | Committee of Unsecured Creditors is Steven Stafstrom |\n| 24 | from Pullman and Comley. |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
4 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Mr. Stafstrom is the lawyer for the |\n| 2 | Official Committee of Unsecured Creditors. |\n| 3 | Also present today on behalf of PAACS |\n| 4 | Stuart Sarnoff, David Harbach and MacKenzie Russo. |\n| 5 | They represent PAACS. |\n| 6 | On behalf of certain creditors, including |\n| 7 | Rui Ma, we have Kristen Mayhew. |\n| 8 | On behalf of creditor, Logan Cheng, we |\n| 9 | have Jay Wolman. |\n| 10 | Also on behalf of PAACS we have Annecca |\n| 11 | Smith, from Robinson and Cole. |\n| 12 | And then also for the debtor today we have |\n| 13 | Josh Klein and Aaron Mitchell. |\n| 14 | Today's meeting will feature me asking |\n| 15 | questions first, followed by the opportunity for |\n| 16 | creditors to come up and ask questions. |\n| 17 | Is anyone on the telephone conference |\n| 18 | line? |\n| 19 | MR. MACKEY:
Steven Mackey from the U.S. |\n| 20 | Trustee's Office is on the conference line. |\n| 21 | Thank you, Mr. Mackey.
Anyone else |\n| 22 | besides Mr. Mackey. |\n| 23 | Hearing none, I'm going to proceed to |\n| 24 | swearing in Mr. Kwok. |\n| 25 | (The debtor is sworn.) |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Kwok, as you know, |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | today's meeting is being recorded and Mr. Jeff here |\n| 3 | is our official interpreter for today. |\n| 4 | Jeff will be interpreting the questions |\n| 5 | that I ask and your answers, and I ask that you wait |\n| 6 | until Jeff has made a full translation before you |\n| 7 | answer my questions. |\n| 8 | EXAMINATION BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 9 | Q
Mr. Kwok, we're going to pick up today in |\n| 10 | an area that we left off in general from the last |\n| 11 | meeting of creditors that was held back on March |\n| 12 | 21st, 2022. |\n| 13 | Has anything changed in your employment |\n| 14 | status since March 21st, 2022? |\n| 15 | A
No. |\n| 16 | Q
Has anything changed with respect to your |\n| 17 | residence? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
During the meeting held on March 21st, |\n| 20 | 2022 I asked you about the accuracy of your |\n| 21 | bankruptcy schedules and your bankruptcy statement |\n| 22 | of financial affairs. |\n| 23 | A
No change. |\n| 24 | Q
Thank you. |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Jeff, for purposes of my |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
6 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | questions I'm going to be following the documents |\n| 2 | that are in front of you. When I say schedules, it's |\n| 3 | this document.
And then this document is the |\n| 4 | statement of financial affairs.
Okay?
And when I |\n| 5 | refer to an ECF number, it's at the top of the page. |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
ECF number. |\n| 7 | Okay. |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay?
That should allow |\n| 9 | you to follow along and start on this page. |\n| 10 | EXAMINATION BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
Okay.
Mr. Kwok, I'm going to ask you to |\n| 12 | make sure you have in front of you, which you appear |\n| 13 | to do, Schedules A-B through J. |\n| 14 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
He has Mandarin |\n| 15 | translations in front of him. |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
I see that Mr. Baldiga, who is seated next |\n| 18 | to you, has English versions.
But in front of you, |\n| 19 | Mr. Kwok, appear to be translations.
Is that |\n| 20 | accurate? |\n| 21 | A
Just on Schedule A-B. |\n| 22 | Q
Okay.
So, Mr. Kwok, when you're answering |\n| 23 | my questions today, you're going to be taking a look |\n| 24 | at your own translated versions of the bankruptcy |\n| 25 | schedules. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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134 |\n|---------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
7 |\n| 1 | A
Okay. |\n| 2 | Q
Okay. |\n| 3 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Just a minute, |\n| 4 | Your Honor. |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Yes. |\n| 6 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I'm having a |\n| 7 | little difficulty hearing the interpreter when he |\n| 8 | interprets the witness's answers. |\n| 9 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
So, Jack, if you |\n| 10 | could speak up.
I'm going to move the microphone. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, okay. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
See if that works. |\n| 13 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 14 | Q
Okay.
Mr. Kwok, starting at Question No. |\n| 15 | 1 on Schedule A-B.
With respect to Schedule A-B at |\n| 16 | Question No. 1, that asks if you own any legal or |\n| 17 | equitable interest in any real estate residence or |\n| 18 | building or similar property.
Your answer to that |\n| 19 | Question No. 1 was no, Mr. Kwok.
Is that an |\n| 20 | accurate answer? |\n| 21 | A
Yes. |\n| 22 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you owned any real estate |\n| 23 | between the year 2018 and your bankruptcy filing in |\n| 24 | February of 2022? |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 9 of |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|-----------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|-----------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
8 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | that one? |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 3 | Q
Have you owned any real estate between the |\n| 4 | year 2018 and your bankruptcy filing in February |\n| 5 | 2022? |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 7 | that one?
He said he didn't hear that. |\n| 8 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 9 | Q
Mr. Kwok -- |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
I'm sorry.
I couldn't hear. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said that he |\n| 12 | didn't understand the translation.
I just want to |\n| 13 | make sure I understand first. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'll repeat the question. |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yes. |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you owned any real estate |\n| 18 | between 2018 and February of 2022? |\n| 19 | A
No. |\n| 20 | Q
Mr. Kwok, as of the bankruptcy filing in |\n| 21 | February 2022, did you have any equitable interest |\n| 22 | in any real estate anywhere in the world? |\n| 23 | A
No. |\n| 24 | Q
Mr. Kwok, as of the bankruptcy filing in |\n| 25 | February 2022, did you have any legal interest in |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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9 |\n| 1 | any real estate anywhere in the world? |\n| 2 | A
No. |\n| 3 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you ever owned any real |\n| 4 | estate in Hong Kong? |\n| 5 | A
No. |\n| 6 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
What was the |\n| 7 | answer? |\n| 8 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
No. |\n| 9 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 10 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you ever owned the property |\n| 11 | located at 16A South Bay Road, Hong Kong? |\n| 12 | A
No. |\n| 13 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you currently own an |\n| 14 | apartment at the Sherry Netherland in New York City? |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 16 | it.
Can I ask him repeat the -- repeat the answer? |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
You have to say -- whatever |\n| 18 | you're going to say, you have to -- you're talking |\n| 19 | to everybody, not just Holley, so I need to hear |\n| 20 | what you're saying. |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
I just - |\n| 22 | - I just want to ask him to repeat -- repeat the |\n| 23 | answer. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay? |\n\nof 134\n\n| Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | |\n|-----------------------------|--|\n|-----------------------------|--|\n\n| 1 | THE WITNESS:
I don't own that real estate |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | in New York, the Sharon -- the Sharons -- at that |\n| 3 | address I don't remember, and I own -- I own 50 |\n| 4 | percent the stock -- the stock and -- |\n| 5 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No. |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
No? |\n| 7 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No. |\n| 8 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 9 | THE WITNESS:
For the family. |\n| 10 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can I ask you not to |\n| 11 | interrupt?
Can you just wait until the end and then |\n| 12 | -- |\n| 13 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- you can express whatever |\n| 15 | it is you want to say? |\n| 16 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can you please just |\n| 18 | translate Mr. Kwok's answer again? |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
I just |\n| 20 | want to repeat, make sure -- and I said it right, |\n| 21 | you know, what he said. |\n| 22 | THE WITNESS:
So, yeah, he -- he said, I |\n| 23 | owe -- I own 50 percent of the -- 50 percent, but I |\n| 24 | don't own the whole real estate, but I just |\n| 25 | represent the family. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 12 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| | 11 |\n|--|----|\n| | |\n\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n|----|---------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | Q
Mr. Kwok, what do you own 50 percent of? |\n| 3 | A
Bravo Luck, 50 percent of the stock powder |\n| 4 | -- power.
I don't know.
I don't understand. |\n| 5 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
(Indiscernible.) |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He owned -- he |\n| 7 | said he owns the 50 percent of it. |\n| 8 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
-- we can hear |\n| 9 | you fine, Holley. |\n| 10 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
I'm going to ask -- |\n| 11 | I'm going to -- |\n| 12 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't know if |\n| 13 | the microphone is connected to anything. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
It is.
It is.
Jeff, if |\n| 15 | you can speak up? |\n| 16 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Mr. Kwok said |\n| 17 | he owe -- he owns 50 percent of -- of the stock.
Is |\n| 18 | it like the stock of the real estate or something? |\n| 19 | I don't know.
I don't get it.
But you can help if |\n| 20 | she wants to help.
Do you want him to help a little |\n| 21 | bit? |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'd rather not. |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 24 | MS. CLAIBORN:
So, I'll just -- I'll ask |\n| 25 | follow-up questions. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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12 |\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
All right.
But I need to |\n| 3 | hear if it's a misinterpretation, so -- |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to ask a |\n| 5 | clarifying question, if I could. |\n| 6 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 7 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own 50 percent of a |\n| 8 | company called Bravo Luck? |\n| 9 | A
I represent my family to hold 50 percent |\n| 10 | of the stock. |\n| 11 | Q
Mr. Kwok, when you use the term -- |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
Could I hear that back? |\n| 13 | Could you repeat that? |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
I |\n| 15 | represent my family to hold 50 percent of the stock |\n| 16 | of the -- of the company. |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. |\n| 18 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, when you say family, what do you |\n| 20 | mean? |\n| 21 | A
My family is a big family and that |\n| 22 | includes a lot of people.
My kids and my sister-in |\n| 23 | laws, and all people together.
A lot of people. |\n| 24 | Q
Mr. Kwok, who owns an interest -- |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me.
We do have an |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
13 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | interpretation question. |\n| 2 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I just want to |\n| 3 | ask that, is there supposed to be summary of the |\n| 4 | (indiscernible) the interpretation? |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
To the best of Mr. Jeff's |\n| 6 | ability, it should be verbatim. |\n| 7 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Right.
So if |\n| 8 | Mr. Kwok said, my son, my daughter, my brother, my |\n| 9 | sister-in-law, my nephew, my niece, many people, |\n| 10 | then if the interpreter say, well, a lot of my |\n| 11 | families and my brother, many people, then should it |\n| 12 | be correct or not? |\n| 13 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I would prefer that Mr. |\n| 14 | Jeff translate as literally as possible.
So with |\n| 15 | that instruction, can we -- |\n| 16 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- do a specific job as |\n| 18 | best we can going forward?
Thank you. |\n| 19 | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 21 | Q
So, Mr. Kwok, who owns the company called |\n| 22 | Bravo Luck? |\n| 23 | A
My son. |\n| 24 | Q
And what is your son's name? |\n| 25 | A
Cheng Wu. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
14 |\n| 1 | Q
How long has your son owned Bravo Luck? |\n| 2 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 3 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Say again, |\n| 4 | please. |\n| 5 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't |\n| 6 | remember. |\n| 7 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 8 | Q
So, Mr. Kwok, what do you own 50 percent |\n| 9 | of when you explained your ownership interest in the |\n| 10 | Southern Sherry Netherland? |\n| 11 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You may |\n| 12 | interpret. |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 14 | that one again, Holley? |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 16 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you testified that you owned 50 |\n| 17 | percent of some company, and that was in response to |\n| 18 | my question if you owned the Sherry Netherland |\n| 19 | apartment.
Can you please explain what you meant? |\n| 20 | A
Sherry is a co-op.
It doesn't have the -- |\n| 21 | it doesn't have the -- it doesn't have the |\n| 22 | ownership. |\n| 23 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
May I, Ms. |\n| 24 | Holley? |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Yes, of course. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 16 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
15 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
You've got to |\n| 2 | speak louder. |\n| 3 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
I'm going to put |\n| 4 | ourselves on pause for a second here. |\n| 5 | (Off the record) |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
We're back on |\n| 7 | the record after a short break, and, Mr. Kwok, you |\n| 8 | remain under oath. |\n| 9 | Jeff, could you please retranslate? |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
The last question.
You |\n| 12 | want me to ask it again? |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
Would |\n| 14 | you ask it again? |\n| 15 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
I'll try it |\n| 16 | again. |\n| 17 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 18 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you testified today that you own |\n| 19 | 50 percent of an interest in some company, and that |\n| 20 | was the answer you gave me in response to my |\n| 21 | question if you own an apartment at the Sherry |\n| 22 | Netherland.
Can you please explain your answer? |\n| 23 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection. |\n| 24 | THE WITNESS:
I don't know how to explain |\n| 25 | it.
He said the Sherry Netherland is a co-op.
I |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | don't have a deed on that property and I just |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | represent my family to own 50 percent of the right. |\n| 3 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me.
Go ahead. |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Because that -- |\n| 5 | Mr. Kwok did mention the company name Bravo Luck, so |\n| 6 | Mr. Interpreter did not say the word Bravo Luck, the |\n| 7 | company that holds the interest of Sherry |\n| 8 | Netherland, and Mr. Kwok represents the family owns |\n| 9 | 50 percent of Bravo Luck, which is the holding |\n| 10 | company of owning the Sherry Netherland. The Sherry |\n| 11 | Netherland is a co-op. |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
So I'm going to make a |\n| 13 | continuing objection to the extent that the |\n| 14 | interpreter is not providing the exact words used by |\n| 15 | the witness.
I'm not ascribing any faults or |\n| 16 | anything, but obviously that's critical to the |\n| 17 | quality of the testimony and that's necessary. |\n| 18 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We need -- |\n| 19 | MR. BALDIGA:
We have to use the words |\n| 20 | used by the witness. |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm sure that Jeff is going |\n| 22 | to do his best job today to try to translate |\n| 23 | everything literally. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
But please understand that |\n\nof 134\n\n| Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | | |\n|-----------------------------|--|--|--|\n|-----------------------------|--|--|--|\n\n| 1 | there is a familiarity with terms in this room that |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | Mr. Jeff does not have.
So to the extent that |\n| 3 | people are answering questions with shorthand |\n| 4 | versions of company names or just one words, the |\n| 5 | answer should be as specific as possible -- |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, I -- |\n| 7 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- if you could translate |\n| 8 | that. |\n| 9 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- my best but |\n| 10 | probably that interpreter honestly, Holley, the |\n| 11 | interpreter probably know the case more, the |\n| 12 | details. |\n| 13 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I agree.
Can you just -- |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
But if he -- |\n| 15 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- can you translate what I |\n| 16 | just said to Mr. Kwok, because I want to make sure |\n| 17 | -- |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh. |\n| 19 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- he answers questions in |\n| 20 | a way that are easily translatable. |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I just tell him |\n| 22 | and the answer let -- you know short and clear, but |\n| 23 | I pretty much understand what he says and -- |\n| 24 | MS. CLAIBORN:
And can you please |\n| 25 | translate Mr. Kwok's answers or comments to your |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | comments? |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said he will |\n| 3 | try to make it a shorter and clear and -- but he |\n| 4 | needs to explain the details as much as he can |\n| 5 | because it's a -- it's related to his lifeline. |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Sarnoff? |\n| 7 | MR. SARNOFF:
Yeah.
I just wanted to make |\n| 8 | clear that to the extent there is a discrepancy |\n| 9 | between the interpreter -- the translator, the |\n| 10 | official translator and Mr. Kwok's interpreter, that |\n| 11 | the translator is the final arbiter and that unless |\n| 12 | the translator agrees with the translation |\n| 13 | difference that the interpreter is putting forth, |\n| 14 | they have to work that out before we can defer to |\n| 15 | the -- to Mr. Kwok's personal interpreter as what |\n| 16 | Mr. Kwok said. |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
I don't accept that. |\n| 18 | MR. SARNOFF:
That's fine. |\n| 19 | MR. BALDIGA:
That can be your position. |\n| 20 | MR. SARNOFF:
Okay.
The position has to |\n| 21 | be that the translator has to agree with the |\n| 22 | interpreter about what Mr. Kwok said for the record |\n| 23 | to be accurate. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
That -- I understand your |\n| 25 | position. |\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
So, Holley, if |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | I miss anything that his personal interpreter wants |\n| 3 | to make up whatever I'm missing, some of the detail |\n| 4 | information, and is it okay for her to add on and if |\n| 5 | I agree what -- you know, what I'm missing or what |\n| 6 | he said, maybe I'm missing some detail information |\n| 7 | and some -- |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I think the better route |\n| 9 | for today -- |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- and for purposes of a |\n| 12 | clear translation and a clear record -- |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- is for you, Jeff, to |\n| 15 | interpret -- |\n| 16 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Uh-huh. |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- my questions and to |\n| 18 | interpret Mr. Kwok's answers. |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 20 | MS. CLAIBORN:
And if Mr. Kwok thinks, |\n| 21 | based on your interpretation, that you have not |\n| 22 | translated properly, then he can testify again and |\n| 23 | you can try again. |\n| 24 | But I would like to restrict the |\n| 25 | interaction that happens between translators and |\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | between Mr. Kwok's personal translator so that we |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | have an official record where the person asking the |\n| 3 | question is me, it's being officially translated, |\n| 4 | and Mr. Kwok is giving the answers, and that also is |\n| 5 | being officially translated. |\n| 6 | MR. BALDIGA:
But, Holley, the problem |\n| 7 | with that is the witness doesn't know whether Jeff's |\n| 8 | English report is in fact accurate.
You can't leave |\n| 9 | it up to the witness.
That's why we have a check |\n| 10 | interpreter.
If he spoke English, then we wouldn't |\n| 11 | need any interpreters.
He can't do that. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I think as a practical |\n| 13 | matter, Mr. Kwok speaks enough English to know |\n| 14 | whether or not he's answered his question. |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
No, he doesn't.
I object. |\n| 16 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Well, I -- I think that |\n| 17 | that has been what I have seen from my own personal |\n| 18 | experience. |\n| 19 | That said, we're going to try and do the |\n| 20 | best we can -- |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
I agree. |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- and we'll see where we |\n| 23 | go. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
of 134 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 22 |\n|---------------|-----------------------|-----------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|---------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 21 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 2 | Q | | So back to questions and answers. | Mr. |\n| 3 | | | Kwok, do you own an interest in Genever Holdings | |\n| 4 | Corporation? | | | |\n| 5 | A | | I just have -- in reality, I don't, but I | |\n| 6 | | | just held -- I just represent my family to hold some | |\n| 7 | interest. | | | |\n| 8 | Q | | Is anyone authorized to act on behalf of | |\n| 9 | | | Genever Holdings Corporation aside from you? | |\n| 10 | A | My son. | | |\n| 11 | Q | | Is there a document that memorializes your | |\n| 12 | | | ownership interest, whatever it is, in Genever | |\n| 13 | Holdings Corporation? | | | |\n| 14 | | MR. BALDIGA: | Objection.
You -- you may | |\n| 15 | answer. | | | |\n| 16 | | THE WITNESS: | No. | |\n| 17 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: | Ms. Holley, can | |\n| 18 | | | I -- first of all, the last time that -- when he was | |\n| 19 | | | saying -- instructing the witness about his | |\n| 20 | | | testimony, what should it be, I don't think the | |\n| 21 | | | interpreter -- the official interpreter interpreted | |\n| 22 | your instruction. | | He is telling the witness what he | |\n| 23 | | | should be doing, but not what you were saying. | |\n| 24 | | | And then, now that the witness is saying | |\n| 25 | | | that he asked the interpreter twice that -- you were | |\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | talking about ownership, you were talking about |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | ownership interest.
Now he used twice these words, |\n| 3 | and then at the end, Mr. Jeff said, yes.
And then, |\n| 4 | so he answered no, but then the interaction was not |\n| 5 | interpreted. |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Jeff, could you |\n| 7 | translate? |\n| 8 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't know |\n| 9 | what she just said.
I don't know.
I didn't |\n| 10 | understand what she's saying. |\n| 11 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I mean, every |\n| 12 | word should be interpreted.
The witness -- every |\n| 13 | word the witness says should be interpreted.
Ms. |\n| 14 | Holley's words should be interpreted, right? |\n| 15 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Yes. |\n| 16 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Right.
But he |\n| 17 | will -- not interpreted Ms. Holley's -- and you did |\n| 18 | not interpret everything Mr. Kwok said. |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
Maybe -- |\n| 20 | maybe we should have her to interpret.
I'm going to |\n| 21 | excuse myself.
I don't know -- |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to put the -- |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- I'm not |\n| 24 | familiar with -- |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- I'm going to put the |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 24 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
23 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | matter on pause for a moment. |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, yeah, |\n| 3 | yeah. |\n| 4 | (Off the record) |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
We are back on |\n| 6 | the record after a short break. |\n| 7 | Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath. |\n| 8 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 9 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you have any United States |\n| 10 | currency with you today? |\n| 11 | A
No. |\n| 12 | Q
When you filed your bankruptcy case, did |\n| 13 | you have any United States currency? |\n| 14 | A
No. |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own any foreign currency? |\n| 16 | A
No. |\n| 17 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own any digital currency? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you have any financial |\n| 20 | accounts of any kind in the United States? |\n| 21 | A
No. |\n| 22 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you have any financial |\n| 23 | accounts of any kind outside of the United States? |\n| 24 | A
No. |\n| 25 | Q
On March 21st, you testified you have no |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 |\n|----|---------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | job and no source of income.
Who pays for your |\n| 2 | household expenses? |\n| 3 | A
Sometimes my son, sometimes my wife, or |\n| 4 | sometimes my other family member. |\n| 5 | Q
Do you have access to any credit cards? |\n| 6 | A
No. |\n| 7 | Q
Do you have access to any debit cards |\n| 8 | attached to a bank account? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | Q
How do you pay for groceries? |\n| 11 | A
My son, my wife, my family members' |\n| 12 | company pay for. |\n| 13 | Q
Where does your son live? |\n| 14 | A
London. |\n| 15 | Q
How does your son send you money? |\n| 16 | A
He has a family office in a company, New |\n| 17 | York. |\n| 18 | Q
Does the family office give you money? |\n| 19 | A
They pay the expenses above. |\n| 20 | Q
What does the term family office mean? |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You may answer. |\n| 22 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can I ask to -- |\n| 23 | ask him to repeat? |\n| 24 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Yes. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
Can you |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | -- |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
Right.
He also have to |\n| 3 | interpret for the witness what I say. |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
You haven't said anything |\n| 5 | yet and he's going to ask him to repeat his answers |\n| 6 | so then he's going to translate, and then we can |\n| 7 | have whatever discussion you want to have. |\n| 8 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
The counsel |\n| 9 | raised objection.
The interpreter did not interpret |\n| 10 | the objection. |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I can happily repeat the |\n| 12 | question, but we are not going to get anywhere today |\n| 13 | in a meaningful fashion if people are interrupting |\n| 14 | on basic questions. |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
No, I didn't interrupt, but |\n| 16 | -- |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
So let me try again. |\n| 18 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay.
But hold on.
If I |\n| 19 | object or if I say anything else, that has to be |\n| 20 | interpreted. |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
You're not waiting for |\n| 22 | space to interpret.
So, Mr. Jeff, can you interpret |\n| 23 | that exchange that just happened? |\n| 24 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
I don't |\n| 25 | know.
It's just too much interruption. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
26 |\n| 1 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Right. |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Holley, I can't |\n| 3 | do -- keep doing this.
I just too distracted and I |\n| 4 | don't know.
It just a simple -- ask the witness |\n| 5 | just a simple repeat and then -- |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Let me try -- |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- it gets all |\n| 8 | these people involved. |\n| 9 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Correct.
Let me -- |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
We're not going |\n| 11 | anywhere. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Let me try the question |\n| 13 | again. |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, what do you mean by the term, |\n| 16 | family office? |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You may answer. |\n| 18 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Baldiga, that term is |\n| 19 | all over the papers.
Can you repeat -- translate? |\n| 20 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
No, I'm not |\n| 21 | going anywhere.
Holley, I just excuse myself.
I'm |\n| 22 | sorry.
It's -- it's not going -- |\n| 23 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to put it on |\n| 24 | pause, please. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- this is too |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
27 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | much. |\n| 2 | (Off the record) |\n| 3 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We're back on the record |\n| 4 | after a short break. |\n| 5 | Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath.
During |\n| 6 | the break, I spoke with Attorney Baldiga and we have |\n| 7 | agreed that all objections as to form of the |\n| 8 | question are reserved. |\n| 9 | I'm going to go back to my questions. |\n| 10 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
The question we left off after the break |\n| 12 | was what do you mean by the term family office? |\n| 13 | A
They are representing my big family.
It's |\n| 14 | a company my son, my daughter, my wife, and it's a |\n| 15 | company representing my family for investment. |\n| 16 | Q
What is the name of the company? |\n| 17 | A
Golden Spring Europe. |\n| 18 | Q
Do you mean Golden Spring New York? |\n| 19 | A
Roughly the name. |\n| 20 | Q
Who pays for the meals that you eat? |\n| 21 | A
Sometimes my wife's company, sometimes my |\n| 22 | family office, my son's company. |\n| 23 | Q
Mr. Kwok, when you use the term family |\n| 24 | office, are you referring to the company known as |\n| 25 | Golden Spring New York Limited? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
28 |\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What's the name |\n| 2 | of the company?
Can I -- can you repeat it? |\n| 3 | MS. CLAIBORN:
The name is Golden Spring |\n| 4 | New York Limited. |\n| 5 | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 6 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 7 | Q
In your bankruptcy case, you filed a |\n| 8 | report covering your expenses for the month of |\n| 9 | February. |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
May I repeat |\n| 11 | again? |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Maybe I'll try it again. |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Thank you. |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you filed a monthly operating |\n| 16 | report covering the month of February 2022, and that |\n| 17 | report shows you spent approximately \\$160,000. |\n| 18 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
I object. |\n| 19 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 20 | Q
Who funded the disbursements of \\$160,000? |\n| 21 | A
Some from the Golden Spring family office |\n| 22 | and the company, some were paid by my wife and my |\n| 23 | wife's company. |\n| 24 | Q
What is the name of your wife's company? |\n| 25 | A
Greenwich, in Connecticut. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
29 |\n| 1 | Q
Are you referring to the company? |\n| 2 | A
Yes, the company name. |\n| 3 | Q
What expenses does your wife company, |\n| 4 | Greenwich, pay for? |\n| 5 | A
Mostly food, because I live in my wife's |\n| 6 | house.
We share the cleaning, the expenses because |\n| 7 | -- and also the garden maintenance expenses. |\n| 8 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Okay.
Can we take |\n| 9 | a quick time out so I can speak with my co-counsel? |\n| 10 | Or with my partner. |\n| 11 | MR. BALDIGA:
No, let's just wait. |\n| 12 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 13 | Q
Where does your wife's company, Greenwich, |\n| 14 | get its money from? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Did your wife's company, Greenwich, pay |\n| 17 | for any professional expenses? |\n| 18 | A
I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q
Is your wife the person who actually makes |\n| 20 | the payments? |\n| 21 | A
Yes. |\n| 22 | Q
Does your wife have a checking account? |\n| 23 | A
I don't know. |\n| 24 | Q
Does your wife have a debit card? |\n| 25 | A
I don't know. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
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Page 31
of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
30 |\n| 1 | Q | When you eat in a restaurant with your |\n| 2 | | wife, who pays the bill? |\n| 3 | A | I never went to a restaurant with my wife. |\n| 4 | Q | Ever? |\n| 5 | A | I think I was chased by these people and I |\n| 6 | never went. | Thinks I -- you know, I think I was |\n| 7 | | chased by these people. |\n| 8 | Q | Does your wife buy groceries? |\n| 9 | A | Sometimes. |\n| 10 | Q | How does she pay for them? |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q | Why does Golden Spring New York pay for |\n| 13 | | some of your personal expenses? |\n| 14 | A | Because I'm one of the family member, and |\n| 15 | | my son is very successful and he loves me very much. |\n| 16 | Q | Is there any other reason? |\n| 17 | A | I don't know. |\n| 18 | Q | What personal living expenses of yours |\n| 19 | | does Golden Spring pay for? |\n| 20 | A | The expense from security because I was |\n| 21 | | chased by the people in the back, and the |\n| 22 | | transportation, clothing, and some items for living. |\n| 23 | Q | Who is the person at Golden Spring New |\n| 24 | York -- | |\n| 25 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Wait a minute.
I'm going |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
31 |\n| 1 | to ask a full question. |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 3 | Q
So who is the person at Golden Spring New |\n| 4 | York who authorizes the payment of your personal |\n| 5 | living expenses? |\n| 6 | A
My son. |\n| 7 | Q
Please explain how your son authorizes |\n| 8 | those payments. |\n| 9 | A
I usually communicate with Golden Spring, |\n| 10 | the company's manager and CEO. |\n| 11 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
(Indiscernible) |\n| 12 | director, not manager. |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Could you -- |\n| 14 | okay.
Director, not a manager. |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
Mr. Kwok, who is the director or manager |\n| 18 | that you just referred to? |\n| 19 | A
Wang Yanping. |\n| 20 | Q
Is Ms. Ping a officer of Golden Spring New |\n| 21 | York? |\n| 22 | A
She is a Miss.
She's a lady. |\n| 23 | Q
Is Ms. Ping a corporate officer of Golden |\n| 24 | Spring New York? |\n| 25 | A
Yes. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
32 |\n| 1 | Q | What is her title? |\n| 2 | A | She is a officer or director. |\n| 3 | Q | Does she have a position title? |\n| 4 | A | I don't know. |\n| 5 | Q | Mr. Kwok, are you a corporate officer of |\n| 6 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 7 | A | Now? |\n| 8 | Q | Yes. |\n| 9 | A | No. |\n| 10 | Q | Mr. Kwok, have you ever been in the past, |\n| 11 | | a corporate officer of Golden Spring New York? |\n| 12 | A | I seem to hold a title when the company |\n| 13 | | was established in 2015.
I forgot what title was it |\n| 14 | then. | |\n| 15 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you own any interest in |\n| 16 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 17 | A | No. |\n| 18 | Q | In the past, have you ever had any kind of |\n| 19 | | ownership interest in Golden Spring New York? |\n| 20 | A | No. |\n| 21 | Q | Were you involved in the formation of |\n| 22 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 23 | A | Yes. |\n| 24 | Q | What was your role in the formation of |\n| 25 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
of 134 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 34 |\n|---------------|-------------------|--------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|---------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 33 |\n| 1 | A | | Consultant and giving advice, suggestions. | |\n| 2 | Q | | Was your son involved in the formation of | |\n| 3 | | Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 4 | A | He is the main person. | He -- he was the | |\n| 5 | main person. | | | |\n| 6 | Q | | When Golden Spring New York was created, | |\n| 7 | | | who had the ownership interest in New York -- Golden | |\n| 8 | | New -- Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 9 | A | My son. | | |\n| 10 | Q | | Did Golden Spring Hong Kong have any | |\n| 11 | | | ownership interest in Golden Spring New York? | |\n| 12 | A | | I don't know the detail of the interest | |\n| 13 | | | and because this -- these two combined, it's | |\n| 14 | | considered one thing. | | |\n| 15 | Q | | Is Golden Spring Hong Kong a separate | |\n| 16 | | company from Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 17 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 18 | Q | | Who owns Golden Spring Hong Kong? | |\n| 19 | A | My son. | | |\n| 20 | Q | | In 2015, when Golden Spring New York was | |\n| 21 | | | formed, who owned Golden Spring Hong Kong? | |\n| 22 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 23 | Q | | Are you a corporate officer of Golden | |\n| 24 | Spring Hong Kong? | | | |\n| 25 | A | I don't remember. | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
34 |\n| 1 | Q
Have you ever been a cooperate officer of |\n| 2 | Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 3 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q
Do you have any ownership interest in |\n| 5 | Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 6 | A
No. |\n| 7 | Q
Have you ever in the past, had an |\n| 8 | ownership interest in Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | Q
What type of business is Golden Spring New |\n| 11 | York engaged in? |\n| 12 | A
I don't know. |\n| 13 | Q
How does Golden Spring New York generate |\n| 14 | revenue? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Ms. Holley, I |\n| 17 | don't know if this -- the (indiscernible) he said, |\n| 18 | how does Golden Spring New York generate revenue, |\n| 19 | not how does Golden Spring New York making money, |\n| 20 | right? |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
That was basically my |\n| 22 | question. |\n| 23 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yeah, so the |\n| 24 | interpreter should not say -- interpret it in such a |\n| 25 | way that Golden Spring New York -- how does Golden |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
35 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Spring New York make money, to the -- to the -- to |\n| 2 | Mr. Kwok. |\n| 3 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Generate money, |\n| 4 | yeah.
Generate revenue, generate money. |\n| 5 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No, but you said |\n| 6 | -- |\n| 7 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm happy to ask it |\n| 8 | specifically. |\n| 9 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 10 | Q
How does Golden Spring New York make |\n| 11 | money? |\n| 12 | A
I don't know. |\n| 13 | Q
In the year 2015, were you involved in |\n| 14 | Golden Spring New York's business? |\n| 15 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 16 | Q
Have you ever given a gift of money to |\n| 17 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
Have you ever given any money to Golden |\n| 20 | Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A
No. |\n| 22 | Q
Have you ever transferred any property of |\n| 23 | any kind to Golden Spring New York? |\n| 24 | A
No. |\n| 25 | Q
Have you ever funded Golden Spring New |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
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Page 37
of 134 | |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|----|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 36 |\n| 1 | York in any way? | | |\n| 2 | A | No. | |\n| 3 | Q | Have you ever loaned money to Golden | |\n| 4 | Spring New York? | | |\n| 5 | A | No. | |\n| 6 | Q | Have you ever invested any of your own | |\n| 7 | | money in Golden Spring New York? | |\n| 8 | A | No. | |\n| 9 | Q | What corporate position does Yanping Wang | |\n| 10 | Hold? | | |\n| 11 | A | Officer and director. | |\n| 12 | Q | Is Yanping Wang the president of Golden | |\n| 13 | Spring New York? | | |\n| 14 | A | Yes. | |\n| 15 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any other | |\n| 16 | | corporate officers? | |\n| 17 | A | Yes. | |\n| 18 | Q | Who are they? | |\n| 19 | A | I don't remember clearly about their | |\n| 20 | names. | | |\n| 21 | Q | Please tell me what you remember. | |\n| 22 | A | What -- I don't remember their names | |\n| 23 | | clearly and -- because I don't even remember | |\n| 24 | attorney's names. | I don't want to misleading you, | |\n| 25 | Holley. | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 38 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
37 |\n|----|------------------|---------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Q | How many officers does Golden Spring New |\n| 2 | York have? | |\n| 3 | A | I don't remember.
Oh, I don't know. |\n| 4 | Sorry. | I don't know. |\n| 5 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any |\n| 6 | directors? | |\n| 7 | A | Yanping Wang. |\n| 8 | Q | Is Ms. Wang the only director of Golden |\n| 9 | Spring New York? | |\n| 10 | A | I don't know. |\n| 11 | Q | Where does Golden Spring New York get the |\n| 12 | | money that it uses to pay your personal expenses? |\n| 13 | A | I don't know. |\n| 14 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any |\n| 15 | employees? | |\n| 16 | A | Yes. |\n| 17 | Q | How many? |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q | Are you currently involved in any way in |\n| 20 | | the business of Golden Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A | No. |\n| 22 | Q | What does Golden Spring New York own? |\n| 23 | A | I don't know. |\n| 24 | Q | Golden Spring New York is willing to loan |\n| 25 | | you the sum of \\$8 million.
Where is it getting that |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 39 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\n| 38 |\n|----|\n| |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
38 |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | \\$8 million from? |\n| 2 | A
I don't know. |\n| 3 | Q
Are you the person who asked Golden Spring |\n| 4 | New York to loan you \\$8 million? |\n| 5 | A
No. |\n| 6 | Q
Who asked Golden Spring New York to loan |\n| 7 | you \\$8 million? |\n| 8 | A
My attorney. |\n| 9 | Q
Which attorney? |\n| 10 | A
Aaron Mitchell here. |\n| 11 | Q
Are you referring to Aaron Mitchell? |\n| 12 | A
Now I remember his name now. |\n| 13 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Just for the |\n| 14 | record, I'm not sure Mr. Mitchell has registered an |\n| 15 | appearance yet.
It would be appropriate if he's |\n| 16 | going to be here representing the debtor, if he |\n| 17 | (indiscernible) his appearance. |\n| 18 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I believe I did read Mr. |\n| 19 | Mitchell's name earlier today. |\n| 20 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
He hasn't filed -- |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
He did sign -- |\n| 22 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
-- an appearance in |\n| 23 | this matter. |\n| 24 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Thank you.
Can you |\n| 25 | translate that? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
of 134 | Page 40 |\n|---------------|-------------------|-------------------------------------------------------|---------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 39 |\n| 1 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't hear | |\n| 2 | totally clearly. | I know it's some distance.
I | |\n| 3 | don't -- | | |\n| 4 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | |\n| 5 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any bank | |\n| 6 | accounts? | | |\n| 7 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 8 | Q | Do you have access to Golden Spring New | |\n| 9 | | York's financial accounts? | |\n| 10 | A | No. | |\n| 11 | Q | Do you have authority to enter into | |\n| 12 | | financial transactions on behalf of Golden Spring | |\n| 13 | New York? | | |\n| 14 | A | No. | |\n| 15 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No.
No, that's | |\n| 16 | not the question. | | |\n| 17 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What was it? | |\n| 18 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm happy to repeat the | |\n| 19 | question. | | |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | |\n| 21 | Q | Do you have authority to enter into | |\n| 22 | | financial transactions on behalf of Golden Spring | |\n| 23 | New York? | Mr. Kwok, if you don't answer -- if you | |\n| 24 | | don't understand my question -- | |\n| 25 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He's asking if | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 41
of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
40 |\n| 1 | he -- if I was asking if he has the right to use the |\n| 2 | -- the Golden Spring New York, the accounts for |\n| 3 | transactions.
You know. |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
That was not my question. |\n| 5 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 6 | Q
Mr. Kwok, are you authorized to enter into |\n| 7 | any kind of financial transactions on behalf of |\n| 8 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me, the interpreter |\n| 11 | might have a comment. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can you translate that, |\n| 13 | please? |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
She said |\n| 15 | that it's the trading -- trading of the financial |\n| 16 | trading -- |\n| 17 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Transaction. |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- transaction |\n| 19 | to -- |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Not trading. |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said that, |\n| 22 | no, he was not -- I was not authorized to do the |\n| 23 | transactions, financial transactions. |\n| 24 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 25 | Q
What, if anything, do you currently do for |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 42 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\n| 41 |\n|----|\n| |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 2 | A
No. |\n| 3 | Q
Is Golden Spring New York funding your |\n| 4 | son's personal living expenses? |\n| 5 | A
I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q
Is Golden Spring New York funding your |\n| 7 | daughter's personal living expenses? |\n| 8 | A
I don't know. |\n| 9 | Q
Do you owe any money to Golden Spring New |\n| 10 | York? |\n| 11 | A
Yes. |\n| 12 | Q
How much? |\n| 13 | A
Like more than \\$21 million. |\n| 14 | Q
How do you owe more than \\$21 million to |\n| 15 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 16 | A
Because in the past five years and I was |\n| 17 | sued by a lot of creditors. |\n| 18 | Q
Did Golden Spring New York -- |\n| 19 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I apologize. |\n| 20 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I just ask him |\n| 21 | to repeat. |\n| 22 | THE WITNESS:
In the past five years, I |\n| 23 | was chased by Chinese Communist Party. |\n| 24 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 25 | it.
Ask -- I'm asking him to repeat it one more |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | time. |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
Short -- short answer. |\n| 3 | THE WITNESS:
In the past five years I was |\n| 4 | trapped -- trapped by some of the cases from Chinese |\n| 5 | Communist Party, designed by the Chinese Communist |\n| 6 | Party, including the case past, that case.
I need |\n| 7 | to -- need to pay a large amount of legal fees so |\n| 8 | that's why I got the support from the Golden Spring |\n| 9 | New York.
This is the main reason I owe \\$21 |\n| 10 | million. |\n| 11 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Interpreter |\n| 12 | missed that, the legal -- legal fee. |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, I said |\n| 14 | the legal fee.
I said that.
Did I say legal fee? |\n| 15 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I didn't think |\n| 16 | so, but as long as you say that. |\n| 17 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 18 | Q
How much of the \\$21 million is comprised |\n| 19 | of legal fees? |\n| 20 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 21 | that one again? |\n| 22 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 23 | Q
How much of the \\$21 million -- |\n| 24 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 25 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 44
of 134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
43 |\n| 1 | Q | -- is comprised of legal fees? |\n| 2 | A | I think most of it is legal fee. |\n| 3 | Q | Why is Golden Spring New York paying your |\n| 4 | legal fees? | |\n| 5 | A | Because the Golden Spring New York is my |\n| 6 | | son and my family's company and they love me very |\n| 7 | much. | They hope -- they hoping me to live, not be |\n| 8 | | killed by the people behind me. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you have any written agreement with |\n| 10 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | What legal -- sorry.
What written |\n| 13 | | agreements do you have with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 14 | A | It's agreement for borrowing -- borrowing |\n| 15 | money. | |\n| 16 | Q | When did you enter into that agreement to |\n| 17 | borrow money? | |\n| 18 | A | A few years ago.
I know -- I don't know |\n| 19 | rough time. | |\n| 20 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't recall. |\n| 21 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
What -- |\n| 22 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What -- yeah, I |\n| 23 | | don't remember the time. |\n| 24 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 25 | Q | What are the terms of the legal agreement |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 45 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
44 | | |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|--|--|\n| 1 | with Golden Spring New York?
Sorry.
Let me | | |\n| 2 | rephrase that.
What are the terms of the written | | |\n| 3 | agreement with Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 4 | A
I don't remember. | | |\n| 5 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Sorry.
Could you | | |\n| 6 | repeat the English, please? | | |\n| 7 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Go ahead and say that -- | | |\n| 8 | repeat. | | |\n| 9 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't | | |\n| 10 | remember. | | |\n| 11 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | |\n| 12 | Q
Are you obligated under that written | | |\n| 13 | agreement with Golden Spring New York to pay back | | |\n| 14 | all of the money? | | |\n| 15 | A
Yes. | | |\n| 16 | MR. BALDIGA:
There's more to the | | |\n| 17 | question. | | |\n| 18 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | |\n| 19 | Q
That Golden Spring paid to lawyers on your | | |\n| 20 | behalf. | | |\n| 21 | A
Yes. | | |\n| 22 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
It was only | | |\n| 23 | (indiscernible) of a difference in the interpreting. | | |\n| 24 | For example, the interpreter did not interpret under | | |\n| 25 | the agreement, are you obligated to make them all -- | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 46
of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
45 |\n| 1 | to pay back all the money.
All the money that is, |\n| 2 | you know -- |\n| 3 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
-- spent on the |\n| 5 | lawyer. |\n| 6 | MR. BALDIGA:
Maybe Holley can clarify |\n| 7 | that. |\n| 8 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yeah. |\n| 9 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 10 | Q
I'm going to ask a long question.
I'm |\n| 11 | going to break it into parts. |\n| 12 | Mr. Kwok, are you obligated to pay back |\n| 13 | Golden Spring New York for all of the money that |\n| 14 | Golden Spring New York paid to lawyers on your |\n| 15 | behalf? |\n| 16 | A
Yes. |\n| 17 | Q
Is that agreement with Golden Spring New |\n| 18 | York in writing? |\n| 19 | A
Yes. |\n| 20 | Q
Is that the same written agreement you |\n| 21 | mentioned a few minutes ago? |\n| 22 | A
Yes. |\n| 23 | Q
Do you have more than one written |\n| 24 | agreement with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 25 | A
Yes. |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
46 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Q
What are your other written agreements |\n| 2 | with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 3 | A
In the past week, I had a case with Logan |\n| 4 | Cheng.
The settlement with Logan Cheng, the money |\n| 5 | from -- for the settlement is the money I borrow |\n| 6 | from Golden Spring New York. |\n| 7 | Q
Do you have any other written agreements |\n| 8 | with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 9 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 10 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a fee |\n| 11 | agreement with any of the attorneys who represent |\n| 12 | you in litigation? |\n| 13 | Can you -- can you answer, Mr. Kwok? |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Any agreement |\n| 15 | with -- can you repeat one more time? |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a -- any |\n| 18 | kind of a fee agreement with any of the lawyers who |\n| 19 | represent Mr. Kwok in litigation? |\n| 20 | A
I don't know. |\n| 21 | Q
Mr. Kwok, who represents you in the |\n| 22 | litigation you filed against UBS in London? |\n| 23 | A
Attorney -- attorney office in London. |\n| 24 | Q
What is the name? |\n| 25 | A
I don't remember completely about the |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 48 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | | |\n|----|---------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|\n| 1 | English name. | | | |\n| 2 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a fee | | | |\n| 3 | agreement with that attorney in London? | | | |\n| 4 | A
There should be. | | | |\n| 5 | MR. BALDIGA:
I'm sorry.
What was the | | | |\n| 6 | answer? | | | |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Should have. | | | |\n| 8 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 9 | Q
Do you know if it does have enough -- have | | | |\n| 10 | a fee agreement? | | | |\n| 11 | A
I'm not sure. | | | |\n| 12 | Q
Who is the person at Golden Spring New | | | |\n| 13 | York who authorized payment of your litigation | | | |\n| 14 | expenses? | | | |\n| 15 | A
My son. | | | |\n| 16 | Q
Does your son have to speak with anyone | | | |\n| 17 | else in order to use Golden Spring New York money | | | |\n| 18 | for your benefit? | | | |\n| 19 | A
Yes. | | | |\n| 20 | Q
Who does your son need to speak with? | | | |\n| 21 | A
He needs to talk to my family member, | | | |\n| 22 | which includes more than 100 family members, and | | | |\n| 23 | that because they have a fund. | | | |\n| 24 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
That -- the | | | |\n| 25 | number is 181. | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 49 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\nof 134\n\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | Q
Mr. Kwok, if your son wanted to give you |\n| 3 | \\$100, would he have to seek authority from someone |\n| 4 | at Golden Spring New York? |\n| 5 | A
I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q
When you say your son has to speak with |\n| 7 | someone at Golden Spring New York, how many people |\n| 8 | does he need to speak with? |\n| 9 | A
I don't know details. |\n| 10 | Q
With respect to the \\$8 million that Golden |\n| 11 | Spring New York is willing to loan you, did your son |\n| 12 | have to obtain consent of other people at Golden |\n| 13 | Spring New York for that transaction? |\n| 14 | A
I don't know. |\n| 15 | Q
Have you ever been to the office of Golden |\n| 16 | Spring New York in New York City? |\n| 17 | A
Yes. |\n| 18 | Q
How often do you go to the Golden Spring |\n| 19 | New York office in New York City? |\n| 20 | A
Not -- not fixed.
Sometimes I go there a |\n| 21 | few times a month.
Sometimes I haven't -- I haven't |\n| 22 | gone there for a few months. |\n| 23 | Q
When was the last time you went to the |\n| 24 | Golden Spring New York office? |\n| 25 | A
Yesterday. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
of 134 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 50 |\n|---------------|-----------------------|-------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------|---------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 49 |\n| 1 | Q | Why did you go? | | |\n| 2 | A | | For preparing today's meeting. | |\n| 3 | Q | | Did your son speak with Yanping Wang about | |\n| 4 | the \\$8 million loan? | | | |\n| 5 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 6 | Q | | Did you negotiate the terms of the \\$8 | |\n| 7 | | | million loan from Golden Spring New York? | |\n| 8 | A | No. | | |\n| 9 | Q | | Who was the person who negotiated the \\$8 | |\n| 10 | | million loan on your behalf? | | |\n| 11 | A | My attorney. | | |\n| 12 | Q | Which attorney? | | |\n| 13 | A | Aaron Mitchell. | | |\n| 14 | Q | | Who did Attorney Aaron Mitchell negotiate | |\n| 15 | | with at Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 16 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | Can you repeat | |\n| 17 | one? | | | |\n| 18 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 19 | Q | | Who did Attorney Aaron Mitchell negotiate | |\n| 20 | | with at Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 21 | A | I don't know. | My son. | |\n| 22 | Q | | Did you borrow the sum of \\$1 million from | |\n| 23 | | Lamp Capital, LLC in February 2022? | | |\n| 24 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 25 | Q | | Is that loan from Lamp Capital, LLC in | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 51 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 50 |\n|----|---------------|-------------------------------------------|----|\n| 1 | writing? | | |\n| 2 | A | No. | |\n| 3 | Q | What are the loan terms of the loan from | |\n| 4 | Lamp Capital? | | |\n| 5 | A | I don't know detail. | |\n| 6 | Q | Who are the members of Lamp Capital, LLC? | |\n| 7 | A | My son. | |\n| 8 | Q | Are there any other members of Lamp | |\n| 9 | Capital, LLC? | | |\n| 10 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 11 | Q | Who is the managing member of Lamp | |\n| 12 | Capital, LLC? | | |\n| 13 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 14 | Q | Who was the person at Lamp Capital who | |\n| 15 | | authorized the loan? | |\n| 16 | A | My son. | |\n| 17 | Q | What are the assets of Lamp Capital, LLC? | |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 19 | Q | What does Lamp Capital own? | |\n| 20 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 21 | Q | Have you ever funded Lamp Capital in any | |\n| 22 | way? | | |\n| 23 | A | No. | |\n| 24 | Q | Have you ever invested any money in Lamp | |\n| 25 | Capital, LLC? | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 52
of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
51 |\n| 1 | A | No. |\n| 2 | Q | Why did Lamp Capital loan you the \\$1 |\n| 3 | | million and not Golden Spring New York? |\n| 4 | A | I don't know. |\n| 5 | Q | What is the source of the \\$1 million that |\n| 6 | | Lamp Capital loaned to you? |\n| 7 | A | I don't know. |\n| 8 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Why don't we take a five |\n| 9 | | minute break for the restroom?
We'll reconvene |\n| 10 | | actually, at 12:10. |\n| 11 | (Recess) | |\n| 12 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
We are back on the record |\n| 13 | | after a short break. |\n| 14 | | Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath. |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 16 | Q | Mr. Kwok, were you involved in the |\n| 17 | | selection of the lawyers who represent you in your |\n| 18 | action in London? | |\n| 19 | A | Yes. |\n| 20 | Q | Did your counsel in London request a |\n| 21 | retainer? | |\n| 22 | A | Yes. |\n| 23 | Q | And did you pay your counsel in London a |\n| 24 | retainer? | |\n| 25 | A | Yes. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-----------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
52 |\n| 1 | Q | How much? |\n| 2 | A | 300,000 pound. |\n| 3 | Q | And when was that 300,000 pound retainer |\n| 4 | paid? | |\n| 5 | A | Roughly two years ago. |\n| 6 | Q | Who funded the retainer? |\n| 7 | A | My son helped to pay -- pay that. |\n| 8 | Q | Did your son pay all of the retainer? |\n| 9 | A | Yes. |\n| 10 | Q | Did your son pay the retainer out of his |\n| 11 | personal funds? | |\n| 12 | A | Should be from the company, England. |\n| 13 | Q | What was the name of the company who paid |\n| 14 | the retainer? | |\n| 15 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 16 | Q | Did Golden Spring New York pay the |\n| 17 | | retainer to your London counsel? |\n| 18 | A | I don't remember details because other |\n| 19 | | than the retainer and the other -- a few more |\n| 20 | | payments in -- you know, after. |\n| 21 | Q | Mr. Kwok, if you wanted to go buy a pair |\n| 22 | | of shoes, how would you pay for a pair of shoes? |\n| 23 | A | I will ask Golden Spring New York to pay |\n| 24 | for it. | |\n| 25 | Q | And how would that process work? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
of 134 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 54 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------|-------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 53 |\n| 1 | A | | And I will talk to the director and E Wa | |\n| 2 | | | Wang (ph) and ask her to contact -- talk to my son | |\n| 3 | | and to pay for the shoes. | | |\n| 4 | Q | | How does the shoe company get the money? | |\n| 5 | The shoe store. | | | |\n| 6 | A | I don't know. | Usually, it's E Wa Wang and | |\n| 7 | | | communicate, because my English ability is not | |\n| 8 | | capable to communicate. | | |\n| 9 | Q | | If you went to a store, tried on shoes, | |\n| 10 | | | and wanted to take them home from the store, how | |\n| 11 | | would you pay for the shoes? | | |\n| 12 | A | | In the recent few years I basically never | |\n| 13 | | bought a pair of shoes. | | |\n| 14 | Q | | What was the last thing you paid for? | |\n| 15 | A | | Recently, I didn't go to buy anything. | |\n| 16 | | MR. BALDIGA: | I'm sorry.
Could you repeat | |\n| 17 | that? | | | |\n| 18 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | Recently, I | |\n| 19 | | didn't go to buy anything. | | |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 21 | Q | | My question wasn't recently. | My question |\n| 22 | | | was, what was the last thing that you purchased? | |\n| 23 | A | I don't remember. | | |\n| 24 | Q | | Do you ever eat in a restaurant? | |\n| 25 | A | Recent years, I didn't. | | |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
54 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Q
Before COVID 19, did you eat in |\n| 2 | restaurants? |\n| 3 | A
Very rare because I was afraid to be |\n| 4 | killed by the people behind me, because I was always |\n| 5 | in the process getting chased. |\n| 6 | Q
When you ate in a restaurant, were you the |\n| 7 | person who paid the bill? |\n| 8 | A
I don't have money to pay, so that's why I |\n| 9 | don't go there. |\n| 10 | Q
Mr. Kwok, if you wanted to go buy a cup of |\n| 11 | coffee, how would you pay for it? |\n| 12 | A
I never bought a cup of coffee.
I was -- |\n| 13 | I'm afraid the people behind me might poison me in |\n| 14 | the coffee. |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, if you wanted to buy water, |\n| 16 | you're out and about and you want to buy water, how |\n| 17 | would you pay for it? |\n| 18 | A
Well, since 2107, I don't -- I didn't go |\n| 19 | out to buy water outside. |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
There was a |\n| 21 | (indiscernible) difference in the nuance. |\n| 22 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you -- can |\n| 23 | you repeat it -- can you repeat -- |\n| 24 | THE WITNESS:
Since 2017, I never went |\n| 25 | outside, walk around, and then buy water or coffee. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 56
of 134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
55 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 2 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you have any interest in any |\n| 3 | mutual funds? | |\n| 4 | A | No. |\n| 5 | Q | Do you own any bonds? |\n| 6 | A | No. |\n| 7 | Q | Do you own any publically traded stock in |\n| 8 | any company? | |\n| 9 | A | No. |\n| 10 | Q | Do you own any cars? |\n| 11 | A | No. |\n| 12 | Q | Do you have access to any cars? |\n| 13 | A | Yes. |\n| 14 | Q | And whose cars do you have access to? |\n| 15 | A | My son's and Golden Springs. |\n| 16 | Q | Does Golden Spring provide you with a car |\n| 17 | | that's yours to use? |\n| 18 | A | Yes. |\n| 19 | Q | What kind of car is that? |\n| 20 | A | Maybach |\n| 21 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Maybach. |\n| 22 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Huh? |\n| 23 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Maybach. |\n| 24 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Maybach?
Okay. |\n| 25 | | I don't know the name of it. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
56 |\n| 1 | | THE WITNESS:
Maybach. |\n| 2 | | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 3 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you have a driver's license? |\n| 4 | A | I have a Hong Kong's driver's license. |\n| 5 | Q | Do you drive in the United States? |\n| 6 | A | Almost no. |\n| 7 | Q | When you do drive, whose car do you drive? |\n| 8 | A | Golden Spring's. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you keep a car at your Greenwich |\n| 10 | residence? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | And what car is that? |\n| 13 | A | Maybach. |\n| 14 | Q | Do you own any aircraft? |\n| 15 | A | No. |\n| 16 | Q | Have you ever owned any aircraft? |\n| 17 | A | Before, yes. |\n| 18 | Q | When did you own aircraft? |\n| 19 | A | Probably 2010 to 2016. |\n| 20 | Q | How many air craft did you own? |\n| 21 | A | One. |\n| 22 | Q | And what was it? |\n| 23 | A | Airbus 319.
319. |\n| 24 | Q | And what happened to the Airbus 319? |\n| 25 | A | It was confiscated by UBS and the Chinese |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 58 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 57 |\n|----|--------------------|---------------------------------------------------|----|\n| 1 | Communist Party. | | |\n| 2 | Q | Okay.
Do you own any water craft? | |\n| 3 | A | No. | |\n| 4 | Q | Who owns the yacht known as the Lady May? | |\n| 5 | A | My daughter. | |\n| 6 | Q | Does your daughter own the Lady May in her | |\n| 7 | personal name? | | |\n| 8 | A | Should be from a company. | |\n| 9 | Q | And what is the name of the company that | |\n| 10 | owns the Lady May? | | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 12 | Q | Where is the Lady May currently? | |\n| 13 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 14 | Q | Since the bankruptcy filing, have you | |\n| 15 | | asked your daughter to return the Lady May to New | |\n| 16 | York? | | |\n| 17 | A | I did ask her and asked her to talk to her | |\n| 18 | | attorney to return the boat back to New York. | |\n| 19 | Q | When did you have that conversation? | |\n| 20 | A | Last month, after the court date.
After | |\n| 21 | met with you. | | |\n| 22 | Q | And what did your daughter say? | |\n| 23 | A | She said that she would talk to her | |\n| 24 | | attorney and then talk to my attorney. | |\n| 25 | Q | Did your daughter agree to have the Lady | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 59 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
58 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | May return to New York? |\n| 2 | A
She was not willing to talk to me in any |\n| 3 | detail.
She want -- she wanted to talk to her |\n| 4 | attorney. |\n| 5 | Q
Did your daughter say no to your request |\n| 6 | that she return the Lady May to New York? |\n| 7 | A
No, he didn't -- she didn't. |\n| 8 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
The question was |\n| 9 | not completely interpreted. |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I know, but she |\n| 11 | -- she already -- he already answered and -- |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
Wait until he finishes. |\n| 13 | THE WITNESS:
No, he -- no. |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own or have an interest |\n| 16 | in any trust? |\n| 17 | A
No. |\n| 18 | Q
Are you the beneficiary of any trusts? |\n| 19 | A
No. |\n| 20 | Q
This is a long question.
Mr. Kwok, where |\n| 21 | is the \\$12,000 check paid to you in connection with |\n| 22 | your lawsuit against Baosheng Guo? |\n| 23 | A
It's in attorney's escrow account. |\n| 24 | Q
What is the name of the attorney who is |\n| 25 | holding the check? |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
59 |\n|----|---------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | A
I can't pronounce the attorney's name |\n| 2 | completely. |\n| 3 | Q
What is the attorney's first name? |\n| 4 | A
I cannot -- I'm not able to read out the - |\n| 5 | - the pronounce his name. |\n| 6 | Q
Is the attorney who's holding the check |\n| 7 | the same attorney who represented you in that |\n| 8 | lawsuit? |\n| 9 | A
It should be. |\n| 10 | Q
On your Schedule A-B, you did not disclose |\n| 11 | that \\$12,000 check.
Why? |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
Wait for a question.
No. |\n| 13 | Could he interpret that? |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 15 | Q
Why did you not disclose that \\$12,000 |\n| 16 | check? |\n| 17 | A
My attorney thinks because the money is |\n| 18 | not in my account, so I'm not allowed to -- we're |\n| 19 | not -- I'm not supposed to disclose that. |\n| 20 | Q
Okay.
Mr. Kwok, do you have any patents? |\n| 21 | A
No. |\n| 22 | Q
Do you have any copyrights? |\n| 23 | A
No. |\n| 24 | Q
Do you have any intellectual property of |\n| 25 | any kind? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 61 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | A
No. |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me.
Holley, I'm not |\n| 3 | sure if you're going to come back to it, but there |\n| 4 | is a reference to the \\$12,000. |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I did see that. |\n| 6 | MR. BALDIGA:
Oh, you said he didn't |\n| 7 | disclose it. |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
He did not.
It's not in |\n| 9 | response to the questions on Schedule A-B. |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
It's right there. |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We can disagree about |\n| 12 | whether or not it's disclosed, but it's my position |\n| 13 | that it's not disclosed.
I understand you might |\n| 14 | take a different position. |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 16 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own any interest in a |\n| 17 | company called Ace Decade Holdings Limited? |\n| 18 | A
Yes. |\n| 19 | Q
What is the nature of your ownership |\n| 20 | interest in Ace Decade Holdings Limited? |\n| 21 | A
So I have the interest and ask for UBS to |\n| 22 | pay back \\$500 million.
That kind of interest. |\n| 23 | Q
Are you the only legal owner of Ace Decade |\n| 24 | Holdings Limited? |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Are you the |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
61 |\n| 1 | only -- can you repeat that question? |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 3 | Q
Are you the only legal owner of Ace |\n| 4 | Decades? |\n| 5 | A
I am a legal representing owner. |\n| 6 | Q
Are there any other owners of Ace Decade? |\n| 7 | A
No. |\n| 8 | Q
When did you become an owner of Ace Decade |\n| 9 | Holdings Limited? |\n| 10 | A
At the end of 2014. |\n| 11 | Q
This is a long question.
In your |\n| 12 | litigation in London against UBS, you are an |\n| 13 | individual plaintiff.
What is the basis for your |\n| 14 | claim as an individual plaintiff? |\n| 15 | A
Because I'm the 100 percent representative |\n| 16 | for Ace Decade. |\n| 17 | Q
In the litigation against UBS in London, |\n| 18 | there is an allegation that Ace Decade gave \\$500 |\n| 19 | million to Dawn State Limited.
Where did Ace Decade |\n| 20 | get the \\$500 million? |\n| 21 | A
I loan from my family. |\n| 22 | Q
Did you borrow money from your family and |\n| 23 | give it to Ace Decade? |\n| 24 | A
Yes. |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I don't think that was -- |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
62 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | let's start over, because I don't think that was -- |\n| 2 | that was -- |\n| 3 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yeah, I thought |\n| 4 | that it was -- |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- that was the question, |\n| 6 | because it didn't involve Dawn State -- |\n| 7 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yes. |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- so I'm going to start |\n| 9 | over. |\n| 10 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
Where did you get the money to give to Ace |\n| 12 | Decade, the 500 million? |\n| 13 | MR. BALDIGA:
I don't think he said he did |\n| 14 | that.
I think he said his family did that, but you |\n| 15 | can ask that, but I -- |\n| 16 | THE WITNESS:
From my family. |\n| 17 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 18 | Q
Who specifically in your family gave you |\n| 19 | money that you then gave to Ace Decade? |\n| 20 | A
John Way (ph). |\n| 21 | Q
Who is John Way? |\n| 22 | A
A member from my family. |\n| 23 | Q
Is he a relative of yours? |\n| 24 | A
It's my older brother's cousin or -- |\n| 25 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Son-in-law. |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Son-in-law? |\n| 2 | Okay.
Sorry. |\n| 3 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 4 | Q
On your Schedule A-B, you list a possible |\n| 5 | malpractice claim against Boise Schiller.
Can you |\n| 6 | please explain what that is? |\n| 7 | A
He was the one -- he was the one |\n| 8 | represented me in New York to have a lawsuit against |\n| 9 | UBS.
He gave a lot of forced documents to the Court |\n| 10 | and without my permission.
He also threatened my |\n| 11 | family.
He also threaten myself after drinking.
He |\n| 12 | brought a lot of loss to us, including providing any |\n| 13 | English/Chinese translated documents to me before |\n| 14 | present them to the -- to the lawyer, or to the |\n| 15 | judge.
That's why I -- that's why we sue him. |\n| 16 | Q
Have you hired an attorney to represent |\n| 17 | you in that malpractice action? |\n| 18 | A
My son is in the process of dealing with |\n| 19 | that. |\n| 20 | Q
Why is your son talking to lawyers about |\n| 21 | your malpractice claim? |\n| 22 | A
Because I need to borrow money from him. |\n| 23 | Q
Has a lawyer been selected? |\n| 24 | A
Not yet. |\n| 25 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own an interest in any |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
64 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | company aside from Ace Decade? |\n| 2 | A
No, but the -- I own the Bravo Luck, the |\n| 3 | apartment, only for a few months, some of the |\n| 4 | interest.
And because the apartment is a co-op, so |\n| 5 | they used my name to buy the apartment after I -- |\n| 6 | after we bought apartment, and then we returned the |\n| 7 | stock interest back. |\n| 8 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
I'm sorry.
He must |\n| 9 | have spoken for 30, 40 seconds.
Clearly said more |\n| 10 | than that.
Is there a more fulsome translation? |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Did I miss |\n| 12 | anything? |\n| 13 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Let me see if I can follow |\n| 14 | up. |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 16 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own, currently, an |\n| 17 | interest in Bravo Luck? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own an interest in any |\n| 20 | limited liability company? |\n| 21 | A
No. |\n| 22 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own an interest in any |\n| 23 | partnership? |\n| 24 | A
I used to own the plane company called the |\n| 25 | Orange or Shiny Time, but that was before and |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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Page 66
of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
65 |\n| 1 | doesn't exist anymore. |\n| 2 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you currently own an interest |\n| 3 | in any partnership? |\n| 4 | A
No. |\n| 5 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you currently own an interest |\n| 6 | in any joint venture? |\n| 7 | A
No. |\n| 8 | Q
Other than Ace Decade, do you own an |\n| 9 | interest in any other company right now? |\n| 10 | A
No.
I only owned the Orange and Shiny |\n| 11 | Time before, but not right now. |\n| 12 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a |\n| 13 | security interest in any of your litigation? |\n| 14 | A
I owe them money. |\n| 15 | Q
Have you granted to Golden Spring New |\n| 16 | York, any interest in any of your assets, anything |\n| 17 | that you own? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
So if you were to win a lawsuit against |\n| 20 | Golden Spring -- sorry.
Wrong name.
So if you were |\n| 21 | to win a lawsuit against UBS, would any of the money |\n| 22 | that you win have to be paid to Golden Spring? |\n| 23 | A
Yes. |\n| 24 | Q
And how much would that be? |\n| 25 | A
Before it was 2,200 1 million, or -- |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
66 |\n| 1 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
21 million. |\n| 2 | THE WITNESS:
21 million.
21 million and |\n| 3 | plus now.
Probably it's about 300 million.
30 |\n| 4 | million.
Or 30 million.
Yeah. |\n| 5 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 6 | Q
Is there a document that says that any |\n| 7 | litigation winnings you receive need to be paid to |\n| 8 | Golden Spring? |\n| 9 | A
Yes. |\n| 10 | Q
What is the name of that document? |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I'm going to |\n| 12 | ask him to repeat it. |\n| 13 | I didn't get it.
I just ask him to break |\n| 14 | it down, then I didn't hear what -- |\n| 15 | THE WITNESS:
I have a case in DC.
There |\n| 16 | is a attorney office representing me for political |\n| 17 | asylum and it was attacked by the cyber attack from |\n| 18 | the Chinese Communists, and so they -- the attorney |\n| 19 | office was closed, and they gave my personal |\n| 20 | information to the communist party, and then I sue |\n| 21 | them.
And that litigation fee, attorney fee, came |\n| 22 | from Golden Spring New York. |\n| 23 | I ask for the settlement for 50,000 -- \\$50 |\n| 24 | million.
If I won that money, I will give the money |\n| 25 | back to Golden Springs for the money they supported |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
67 |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | me for attorney fees. |\n| 2 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Mr. Kwok did not |\n| 3 | say settlement.
Mr. Kwok just say, for a claim, not |\n| 4 | a settlement. |\n| 5 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
You're asking |\n| 6 | for \\$50 million.
Yeah.
He ask for \\$50 million for |\n| 7 | that lawsuit, and if he win -- if he wins the money, |\n| 8 | then he will return the money back to the Golden |\n| 9 | Spring New York. |\n| 10 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
My question was, what was the name of the |\n| 12 | document under which you would be repaying Golden |\n| 13 | Spring for your litigation? |\n| 14 | A
The document is the document I -- |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 16 | that one? |\n| 17 | THE WITNESS:
The agreement is -- it's the |\n| 18 | agreement, I borrowed the money from Golden Spring |\n| 19 | New York to sue the attorney office. |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 21 | Q
And what is the name of the agreement? |\n| 22 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 23 | Q
Is it a promissory note? |\n| 24 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 25 | Q
Is it a contract? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 69
of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
68 |\n| 1 | A | I don't remember clearly. |\n| 2 | Q | Who prepared the document? |\n| 3 | A | Attorney. |\n| 4 | Q | What was the name of the attorney who |\n| 5 | | prepared the document? |\n| 6 | A | Melissa. |\n| 7 | Q | What is Melissa's last name? |\n| 8 | A | I don't know. |\n| 9 | Q | Did Melissa the attorney represent you in |\n| 10 | | drafting that document? |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | And who represented Golden Spring in |\n| 13 | | drafting that document? |\n| 14 | A | I don't know. |\n| 15 | Q | Did Golden Spring have any attorney? |\n| 16 | A | Yes. |\n| 17 | Q | You just don't remember who it was? |\n| 18 | A | They have a lot of attorneys. |\n| 19 | Q | Is there more than one written agreement |\n| 20 | | under which you owe money to Golden Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A | Yes. |\n| 22 | Q | How many agreements are there? |\n| 23 | A | Kind of two or three, or three or four.
I |\n| 24 | | don't remember clearly. |\n| 25 | Q | And does someone keep track of the money |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 70 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
69 |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | that you borrow from Golden Spring New York? |\n| 2 | A
My attorney will write it down.
We record |\n| 3 | it. |\n| 4 | Q
What's the name of that attorney? |\n| 5 | A
Aaron Mitchell. |\n| 6 | Q
Did you say Aaron Mitchell? |\n| 7 | A
Oh, yes. |\n| 8 | Q
And how does Aaron Mitchell keep track of |\n| 9 | the monies that you borrow from Golden Spring New |\n| 10 | York? |\n| 11 | A
In detail, I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q
Does anyone who is employed by Golden |\n| 13 | Spring New York keep track of the money that you |\n| 14 | borrow from Golden Spring New York? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Have you ever seen a document from |\n| 17 | Attorney Aaron Mitchell showing how much you owe to |\n| 18 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 19 | A
This is the thing I -- it's something |\n| 20 | between me and my attorney I shouldn't answer. |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
Can I -- I mean -- |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I don't think the question |\n| 23 | involves -- |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
You can -- |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- a privileged answer. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 71 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
70 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | MR. BALDIGA:
That's -- give me a second. |\n| 2 | You could answer that last question yes or no, so if |\n| 3 | you ask again, I think he will say yes or no, and |\n| 4 | then we can take it step by step. |\n| 5 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 6 | Q
Have you ever seen a document prepared by |\n| 7 | Attorney Mitchell that shows you how much money you |\n| 8 | have borrowed from Golden Spring? |\n| 9 | MR. BALDIGA:
Wait.
Wait, my instruction |\n| 10 | needs to be interpreted. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What? |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can you -- |\n| 13 | MR. BALDIGA:
You need to instruct -- |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Just please state it and |\n| 15 | he'll reinterpret. |\n| 16 | MR. BALDIGA:
Please, tell the witness |\n| 17 | what -- I am telling the witness he may answer yes |\n| 18 | or no only. |\n| 19 | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 20 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I have other questions, but |\n| 21 | given the hour of the day, I thought that we could |\n| 22 | take a short break and then reconvene with creditors |\n| 23 | being given the opportunity to ask questions. |\n| 24 | I suggest we reconvene at 1:15. |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Is that okay? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
71 |\n| 1 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
Thank you.
We'll |\n| 2 | reconvene at 1:15. |\n| 3 | (Recess.) |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
The recording has been |\n| 5 | reconvened.
We are back in session after a short |\n| 6 | break and Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath. |\n| 7 | And that this point, Mr. Wolman has some |\n| 8 | questions for you, Mr. Kwok. |\n| 9 | EXAMINATION BY MR. WOLMAN: |\n| 10 | Q
Good afternoon, Mr. Kwok. |\n| 11 | On March 21st I was asking you some |\n| 12 | questions about a prior deposition, specifically |\n| 13 | about the times you had invoked your rights under |\n| 14 | the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. |\n| 15 | On April 1st, 2021, were you being |\n| 16 | investigated for any crime? |\n| 17 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
April 21st? |\n| 18 | MR. WOLMAN:
April 1st, 2021. |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 20 | that question, sir? |\n| 21 | Q
Were you being investigated for any crime? |\n| 22 | A
From SET -- American SET and the |\n| 23 | investigating GTV and they can communicate with our |\n| 24 | attorney. |\n\nQ Are you referring to the Securities and\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 73 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 Exchange Commission? A Yes. Q And what exactly were they investigating? MR. BALDIGA: Objection. I need to ask whether this would reveal privileged information. Would your answer to the last question be information from your attorneys? THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: Can I just -- THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: She wants to help. THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: Because he's not -- MS. CLAIBORN: I think you should just try again. Mr. Baldiga, maybe you can just repeat yourself and Mr. Jack, you can try again. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Can you repeat what you want to say? MR. BALDIGA: Mr. Wolman asked you what you were being investigated for. Is the information that you know, was that provided to you by your attorneys? THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. BALDIGA: And to answer the question would you have to divulge what you were told by your\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 74 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 attorneys? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Have to be what? Divulged? MR. BALDIGA: Would you have to say what you were told by your attorneys? THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. BALDIGA: Then I instruct the witness not to answer on the basis of the attorney/client privilege. MR. WOLMAN: That is not attorney/client information. MR. BALDIGA: Hold on. Let it be interpreted. MR. WOLMAN: Information learned from an attorney that is not specifically a communication for the purpose of giving advice or receiving information is not privileged information. If your attorneys says the sky is blue, that is not a privileged communication. MR. BALDIGA: His is arguing with me. There is not question to you. MR. WOLMAN: Mr. Baldiga, will you continue to instruct your client to improperly invoke the attorney/client privilege? MR. BALDIGA: I'll instruct on a question\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 75 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 by question basis. MR. WOLMAN: And this question, will you maintain the instruction? Mr. Kwok, are you refusing to answer my question? THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. WOLMAN: And on what basis are you refusing to answer my question? MR. BALDIGA: On the basis of instruction from counsel on account of attorney/client privilege. THE WITNESS: Because I can't answer the question because of the privilege between the attorney and me. BY MR. WOLMAN: Q Have you been formally charged by the Securities and Exchange Commission? A No. Q Has the Securities and Exchange Commission closed its investigation of you? MR. BALDIGA: I have to ask again, you can answer that yes or no, if you know. A No. Q Has the Securities and Exchange Commission brought any charges against GTV?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
75 |\n| 1 | A
I don't know. |\n| 2 | Q
Have you been in the past five years |\n| 3 | subject to an audit by the U.S. Internal Revenue |\n| 4 | Service? |\n| 5 | A
No. |\n| 6 | Q
In the last five years have you been |\n| 7 | subject to an audit by the New York State taxing |\n| 8 | authority? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | Q
When did you become a resident of |\n| 11 | Connecticut?
On what date? |\n| 12 | A
The beginning of March, 2020, roughly. |\n| 13 | Q
To be clear, you say you were a resident |\n| 14 | of Connecticut in March of 2020? |\n| 15 | A
Yes. |\n| 16 | Q
So how come in Mr. Cheng, my client's, |\n| 17 | lawsuit against you you signed a statement under |\n| 18 | oath indicating that you were a resident of the |\n| 19 | Sherry Netherlands Hotel? |\n| 20 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 21 | that, counsel? |\n| 22 | Q
If you were a resident of Connecticut in |\n| 23 | March of 2020, you signed a statement under oath in |\n| 24 | Mr. Cheng's lawsuit against you that you resided at |\n| 25 | the Sherry Netherlands Hotel. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 77 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
76 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | A
I don't 100 percent live in Connecticut, |\n| 2 | but sometimes I live in New York also. |\n| 3 | Q
When did you start living in Connecticut |\n| 4 | more than 50 percent of the time? |\n| 5 | A
Since March, 2020. |\n| 6 | Q
You had some assets you claim seized by |\n| 7 | China, correct? |\n| 8 | A
It's not mine. It's from my family.
It's |\n| 9 | my family's. |\n| 10 | Q
Have you ever had assets seized by China? |\n| 11 | A
You're talking about under my name? |\n| 12 | Q
Yes. |\n| 13 | A
No. |\n| 14 | Q
All right.
In 2010, what was your |\n| 15 | personal net worth? |\n| 16 | A
No. |\n| 17 | Q
That wasn't a yes or no question. |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can I repeat |\n| 19 | your question again? |\n| 20 | MR. WOLMAN:
Yes. |\n| 21 | Q
In 2010 what was your personal net worth? |\n| 22 | A
I didn't have any property. |\n| 23 | Q
Have you ever had property in your name |\n| 24 | over \\$1 million and by that I include where you |\n| 25 | owned an interest in a company that interest, |\n\nof 134\n\n| 7 | 7 |\n|---|---|\n| | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 therefore, contributes to your work? A Before 2000, yes. Q Okay. What was your net worth in 1999? A I never calculate in detail. Q What would you estimate it as? A Roughly around 100 million. Q And what happened to that \\$100 million worth of assets? A Because in 2000 I got a Hong Kong passport and in China and they don't allow me to have any property, asset. Q Have you abandoned all claims to whatever assets you had in 1999? A Yes. Q Why have you abandoned your claims? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Abandoned what? Q Your claim to those assets? A Because I was not allowed to have any assets in China. Q If China changed its policy, would you have any right or ability to get those assets back? MR. BALDIGA: Objection. If you know, you can answer. A I don't know. Q What was your largest asset in 1999?\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
78 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | A
There was the assets from a hotel, equity |\n| 2 | interest of a hotel in China. |\n| 3 | Q
And who holds that interest now? |\n| 4 | A
Chinese Community Party. |\n| 5 | Q
Is it held in the name of the Party? |\n| 6 | A
China only has one autocrat government, |\n| 7 | the party, and our family's assets were taken -- |\n| 8 | were seized by them. |\n| 9 | Q
How did your son become wealthy enough to |\n| 10 | fund Golden Spring and Lamp Capital? |\n| 11 | A
Because he started very early to do |\n| 12 | investment and also bring brand names to China. |\n| 13 | Q
Where did he get the money for his |\n| 14 | investment? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Ms. Claiborn asked you about agreements |\n| 17 | with Golden Spring and you could not identify who |\n| 18 | the lawyer was for Golden Spring.
Do you remember |\n| 19 | that? |\n| 20 | A
True. |\n| 21 | Q
I'd like to try to refresh -- to ask you |\n| 22 | potentially to refresh your memory was it a lawyer |\n| 23 | named Daniel? |\n| 24 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He's asking |\n| 25 | Daniel? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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79 |\n| 1 | Q
Yes, Daniel Pedolsky. |\n| 2 | A
Yes, probably and he used to be Golden |\n| 3 | Spring attorney and my personal attorney. |\n| 4 | Q
Did you execute a waiver of conflict of |\n| 5 | interest with Mr. Pedolsky? |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 7 | that? |\n| 8 | Q
Did you execute a waiver of conflict of |\n| 9 | interest with Attorney Daniel Pedolsky? |\n| 10 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 11 | Q
You mentioned two or three -- or three or |\n| 12 | four agreements with Golden Spring. Can you identify |\n| 13 | each of those agreements? |\n| 14 | A
I'm not sure. |\n| 15 | Q
Can you describe the purpose of each of |\n| 16 | those agreements? |\n| 17 | A
That loan from Golden Spring is to have a |\n| 18 | settlement with Logan Cheng. |\n| 19 | Q
And did you take out a loan to pay the |\n| 20 | lawyers to sue Logan Cheng? |\n| 21 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 22 | Q
And what were the other agreements, other |\n| 23 | than with Mr. Cheng? |\n| 24 | A
From D.C. -- the attorney's office from |\n| 25 | D.C. collect (indiscernible)
I don't remember the |\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 name. MR. WOLMAN: All right. Thank you and this time I have to go but thank you. I'll try to dial in. MS. CLAIBORN: Thank you. Can I ask whoever is on the line if they could mute themselves, because they can hear you typing. All right. Who else would like to ask questions? Mr. Harbach. Go ahead, Mr. Harbach. MR. HARBACH: Thank you. For the record, I'm David Harbach with O'Melveny and Meyers and I represent PAACS. EXAMINATION BY MR. HARBACH: Q Mr. Kwok, I'd like to ask some clarifying questions based on questions that Ms. Claiborn asked you today. Earlier today she asked you if you owned any foreign currency and you said no. She also asked you if you owned any digital currency and you said no. My question is have you ever ordered or directed the purchase of either foreign currency or digital currency on behalf of any entity?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 82 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
81 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 2 | that? |\n| 3 | MR. HARBACH:
Sure. |\n| 4 | Q
My question is whether you have ordered or |\n| 5 | directed the purchase of any foreign currency or any |\n| 6 | digital currency on behalf of any entity? |\n| 7 | A
What you mean direct? |\n| 8 | Q
Have you directed anyone to purchase |\n| 9 | foreign currency or digital currency? |\n| 10 | A
No. |\n| 11 | Q
Ms. Claiborn asked you a couple of |\n| 12 | questions about access to credit cards and debit |\n| 13 | cards. And I want to make sure that we have your |\n| 14 | answer clear, because she asked you not whether you |\n| 15 | had any credit cards but whether you had any access |\n| 16 | to credit cards. I want to make sure that you |\n| 17 | understand the difference. |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: He's just asking |\n| 19 | why you want to represent Ms. Holley's asked |\n| 20 | questions. |\n| 21 | MR. HARBACH:
I'm just trying to remind |\n| 22 | you of a question she asked you earlier today, sir. |\n| 23 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't |\n| 24 | understand the question. |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Mr. Baldiga's right. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 83 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
82 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | There's not a question pending. |\n| 2 | Q
The question is do you understand the |\n| 3 | difference between having a credit card and having |\n| 4 | access to a credit card? |\n| 5 | A
I believe I don't have. |\n| 6 | Q
You don't understand the difference? |\n| 7 | A
I don't know much. |\n| 8 | Q
Okay.
Well, let me give you an example. |\n| 9 | Let's talk about the Maybach. |\n| 10 | I believe that you represented to us today |\n| 11 | that you have access to the Maybach for |\n| 12 | transportation.
Is that correct? |\n| 13 | A
Yes. |\n| 14 | Q
But I believe it's also your position that |\n| 15 | you do not own the Maybach.
Isn't that right? |\n| 16 | A
Yes. |\n| 17 | Q
In other words, your position is the |\n| 18 | Maybach is not yours, right? |\n| 19 | A
Yes. |\n| 20 | Q
Okay.
So I use that example to illustrate |\n| 21 | the example between owning something and having |\n| 22 | access to something.
Does that help you?
Do you |\n| 23 | understand the difference? |\n| 24 | A
Now I understand you. |\n| 25 | Q
Okay.
Thank you.
So returning to the |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n question about credit cards and debit cards. Do you have access to any credit cards or debit cards, whether or not they are yours? A I don't understand the difference what he means, access like if I use it myself or if I have somebody else use it. Q Well, let's take those one at a time. Let's begin with using it yourself. Has any member of your family ever provided you a credit card or a credit card number to use for yourself? A I never used. Q The other example you mentioned was perhaps a member of your family using a credit card on your behalf. Is that something that has happened? A What do you mean represent me to use? Q I'm asking about whether to your knowledge any member of your family has ever used a credit card or a debit card to purchase things for you? A My son, my daughter, my wife. They all have credit card to buy things for me. THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: The witness did not say that, use the credit card to buy things for me. The witness said that my son, my wife bought things for me.\n\nof 134\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
84 |\n|----|------------------|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, they used |\n| 2 | | their card and they both -- they all have it.
They |\n| 3 | | all have the cards.
That's what he said. |\n| 4 | | (Repeats interpretation) |\n| 5 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yes, I did it |\n| 6 | right. | |\n| 7 | | THE WITNESS:
And so my wife and my son |\n| 8 | | and my daughter have their own cards and also other |\n| 9 | | family members use their cards to buy things for me. |\n| 10 | Q | Is that ever at your direction? |\n| 11 | A | No. |\n| 12 | Q | Never. |\n| 13 | A | No. |\n| 14 | Q | Is it at your request? |\n| 15 | A | No. |\n| 16 | Q | Is Yan Ping Wang, the same as Yvette Wang? |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | Earlier Ms. Claiborn asked you about |\n| 19 | | Golden Spring Hong Kong. |\n| 20 | | You told her that your son owns it.
Do |\n| 21 | you recall that? | |\n| 22 | A | Yes. |\n| 23 | Q | My question for you is since when has your |\n| 24 | | son owned Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 25 | A | I don't know. |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 Q Has anyone else besides your son ever owned an interest in Golden Spring Hong Kong? A I don't remember. Q You also said that you didn't remember whether you were ever a corporate officer of Golden Spring Hong Kong? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Can you repeat that one? Q You also said that you did not remember whether you were ever a corpora officer of Golden Spring Hong Kong? Does that mean that it is possible that you were and you're just not certain? A I don't remember. Q Ms. Claiborn asked you in a few different ways about whether you know how Golden Spring New York is funded or makes money. Since when has Golden Spring been paying your personal living expenses? A 2015. Q So six or seven years approximately? A Since 2015 and that there was a person called Bruno Wu from Mainland China and called my family, my son, daughter and wife and so since then I start spending money coming from Golden Spring New York. Case 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23 Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 Page 86 of 134\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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86 |\n| 1 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't think |\n| 2 | the witness says some. |\n| 3 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What? |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't think |\n| 5 | the witness said some. |\n| 6 | THE WITNESS:
Not including the son that |\n| 7 | they caught, my wife and daughter and a lot of my |\n| 8 | family members, but not my son. |\n| 9 | Q
So approximately six or seven years that |\n| 10 | Golden Spring has been paying your personal |\n| 11 | expenses.
Is that right? |\n| 12 | A
Yes. |\n| 13 | Q
During those six or seven years did you |\n| 14 | never discuss with any of your family members where |\n| 15 | the money was coming from? |\n| 16 | A
Because a lot of my family members were |\n| 17 | caught by -- were arrested by your client, Bruno Wu, |\n| 18 | and so I have no communication. I cannot communicate |\n| 19 | with him. |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Not exactly. The |\n| 21 | partner of PAACS -- the partner who the counsel was |\n| 22 | represented, PAACS -- partner of PAACS -- |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't know. |\n| 24 | He didn't mention anything about PAACS. |\n| 25 | THE WITNESS:
So it's the other attorney |\n\nof 134\n\n| Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | |\n|-----------------------------|--|\n|-----------------------------|--|\n\n| 1 | representing the client, Bruno Wu, arrested a lot of |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | your family members.
Your client's past partner, |\n| 3 | one of the partners, (indiscernible)
Bruno Wu and |\n| 4 | arrested a lot of your family members so you can't |\n| 5 | communicate with them. |\n| 6 | Q
At any time since 2015 have you been in |\n| 7 | communication with your daughter, or your wife, or |\n| 8 | your son? |\n| 9 | A
Yes. |\n| 10 | Q
At any time that you've been in |\n| 11 | communication with any of those three individuals |\n| 12 | did you ever ask them about where Golden Spring's |\n| 13 | money was coming from? |\n| 14 | A
Yes, I asked. |\n| 15 | Q
And who did you ask? |\n| 16 | A
I asked all three of them. |\n| 17 | Q
And what did they say? |\n| 18 | A
They told me because I was in the position |\n| 19 | of being chased so don't ask our own financial |\n| 20 | information.
Don't ask me for anything and we will |\n| 21 | help you to -- we will help you as much as we can. |\n| 22 | Q
When was that? |\n| 23 | A
After 2017. |\n| 24 | Q
How long after 2017? |\n| 25 | A
I don't remember. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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88 |\n| 1 | Q
And when you had this conversation with |\n| 2 | your family were the three of them together or where |\n| 3 | these separate conversations? |\n| 4 | A
Separate. |\n| 5 | Q
And each of the three of them said more or |\n| 6 | less the same thing? |\n| 7 | A
Similar. |\n| 8 | Q
So I want to make sure I have this |\n| 9 | correct.
You asked each of them where Golden |\n| 10 | Springs money was coming from and each of them said |\n| 11 | to you don't ask me about that because -- finish the |\n| 12 | sentence for me. |\n| 13 | A
So you are making a story I don't |\n| 14 | understand. |\n| 15 | Q
I'm trying to ask you to help me |\n| 16 | understand.
I'm trying to understand the reason why |\n| 17 | your family members told you not to ask why your |\n| 18 | family members told you not to ask about where |\n| 19 | Golden Spring got the money. |\n| 20 | MR. BALDIGA:
Let him ask you a question. |\n| 21 | Q
Please tell me why each of your family |\n| 22 | members told you not to ask them about where Golden |\n| 23 | Spring money came from? |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
If you know. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
You're asking |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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89 |\n| 1 | to object the question? |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
I objected. |\n| 3 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, you |\n| 4 | objected. |\n| 5 | MR. BALDIGA:
I permit him to answer if he |\n| 6 | knows. |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 8 | THE WITNESS:
My daughter and wife were |\n| 9 | arrested by his partner and got released 2017 and |\n| 10 | released to New York.
They were tortured |\n| 11 | tremendously by communist party.
The person |\n| 12 | tortured them is this attorney's partner.
They all |\n| 13 | have their own attorneys.
They told me don't ask me |\n| 14 | or communicate with me about their own financial and |\n| 15 | personal information.
Anything you want to do it's |\n| 16 | better go through attorneys. |\n| 17 | This is the doctrine, the thing, my family |\n| 18 | members told them before they came to New York.
I |\n| 19 | just want to tell you it's the meaning, very similar |\n| 20 | meanings, but I can't tell you word by word. |\n| 21 | So I don't want this counsel make any |\n| 22 | stories about my daughter -- about my daughter's |\n| 23 | forgery, giving false testimony.
That kind of |\n| 24 | story. |\n\nThe last time when we were here with Ms.\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | Holley and he was making false lies and saying I'm |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | using my Twitter account and saying that the judge |\n| 3 | in New York was communist party and I didn't even |\n| 4 | have a Twitter account. |\n| 5 | MR. HARBACH:
Just so the record's clear |\n| 6 | today is the first that I've uttered a word in |\n| 7 | connection with this litigation in court.
So I |\n| 8 | don't think you're talking about me, sir. |\n| 9 | THE WITNESS:
I was saying last time was |\n| 10 | from attorney in your office.
The prior attorney |\n| 11 | before you called Andy Morse (ph) and was kicked out |\n| 12 | by the judge because he was making false claims for |\n| 13 | five years and was kicked out by the judge.
So the |\n| 14 | law office was always making false claims. |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
Just answer his question |\n| 16 | because I can't know whether to object unless you're |\n| 17 | just trying to answer his question. |\n| 18 | THE WITNESS:
I didn't talk to my family, |\n| 19 | daughter and wife individually to say the same |\n| 20 | thing. If I say the same thing, same words, that |\n| 21 | will be making false story. |\n| 22 | MR. HARBACH:
I understand. |\n| 23 | THE WITNESS:
You cannot use your |\n| 24 | imagination and put it into my head.
This is why |\n| 25 | the New York South District and the judge was |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 92 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n (indiscernible) by them and they give me the wrong sentencing. UNIDENTIFIED: Can you say that last -- THE WITNESS: Because of their false claims, so that's why the judge from the south district of New York, the judge, gave me the wrong sentencing. THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: And also the interpreter did not interpret fully counsel's instruction to the witness previously about his objection. MS. CLAIBORN: If you want to repeat it, go ahead. MR. BALDIGA: I think you just have to listen to these questions and answer just these questions. MR. HARBACH: Sorry. Counsel will move to a different topic. BY MR. HARBACH: Q Mr. Kwok, Ms. Claiborn asked you today about a \\$21 million debt that you owe to Golden Spring. She asked you how much of that 21 million was legal fees and your answer was I think most of it. I'd like to know what you meant by most of it.\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 93 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
92 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Did you mean \\$11 million or do you mean close to \\$21 |\n| 2 | million. |\n| 3 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q
Do you still believe that most of it was |\n| 5 | for legal fees? |\n| 6 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 7 | Q
You also mentioned the Logan Cheng |\n| 8 | settlement and that there was money borrowed from |\n| 9 | Golden Spring in connection with that. |\n| 10 | A
Yes. |\n| 11 | Q
How much money was that loan for? |\n| 12 | A
I don't remember exactly.
Probably like |\n| 13 | 200.
Two -- \\$300,000. |\n| 14 | Q
What were the terms of that loan from |\n| 15 | Golden Spring? |\n| 16 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 17 | Q
When Ms. Claiborn asked you if you had |\n| 18 | ever been to Golden Spring's offices in New York, |\n| 19 | you said yes. |\n| 20 | What's the address of those offices? |\n| 21 | A
Yes. |\n| 22 | Q
What is the address of those offices? |\n| 23 | A
64th Street, 162. |\n| 24 | Q
You also mentioned that the last time you |\n| 25 | were there was yesterday and that the reason you |\n\nof 134\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 93 |\n|----|-----------------|---------------------------------------------------|----|\n| 1 | | went there was to prepare for today's meeting. | |\n| 2 | | Who did you meet with there? | |\n| 3 | A | My attorney. | |\n| 4 | Q | Did you meet with anyone else besides your | |\n| 5 | | attorney to prepare for today's meeting while you | |\n| 6 | | were at the office? | |\n| 7 | A | I don't know what you mean, the other | |\n| 8 | people. | | |\n| 9 | Q | Well, did you meet with anyone who works | |\n| 10 | | for Golden Spring? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes, I met Yvonne Wang. | |\n| 12 | Q | And this was yesterday? | |\n| 13 | A | Yes, I met her yesterday. | |\n| 14 | Q | Did you ask some questions of her | |\n| 15 | yesterday? | | |\n| 16 | A | No. | |\n| 17 | Q | And tell me about your conversation with | |\n| 18 | Ms. Wang? | | |\n| 19 | A | What do you mean? | |\n| 20 | Q | Well, I'd like to know what you talked | |\n| 21 | about with her. | | |\n| 22 | A | I ask her to arrange the food to eat and | |\n| 23 | the coffee. | | |\n| 24 | Q | Is that all? | |\n| 25 | A | And also we talked about how to abolish | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
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94 |\n| 1 | communist party. | |\n| 2 | Q | I want to make sure I get this right. I |\n| 3 | think you said -- | |\n| 4 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me. Can I hear the |\n| 5 | last thing again. | |\n| 6 | | THE WITNESS:
We talk about how to abolish |\n| 7 | communist party. | |\n| 8 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 9 | Q | Ms. Wang is an officer of Golden Spring, |\n| 10 | correct? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | And you directed her to bring coffee, |\n| 13 | right? | |\n| 14 | A | No, I didn't direct her. I'm just hoping |\n| 15 | | her to bring some coffee. |\n| 16 | Q | You were hoping or helping? |\n| 17 | A | Help. |\n| 18 | Q | You were helping.
Because my question to |\n| 19 | | you was what you talked about with Ms. Wang.
And I |\n| 20 | | thought you said you asked her to bring some coffee |\n| 21 | | or maybe even told her to bring some coffee. |\n| 22 | A | No, your attorney office -- you attorney |\n| 23 | | office making and imagining things again. |\n| 24 | Q | I'll ask the question again. |\n| 25 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Please ask a question. Don't |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
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95 |\n| 1 | put words in his mouth. |\n| 2 | Q
What did you discuss with Ms. Wang |\n| 3 | yesterday? |\n| 4 | A
Do you want me to talk about in detail? I |\n| 5 | can talk about this for hours. |\n| 6 | Q
Well, no, not if the detail concerns how |\n| 7 | to overthrow the Chinese Communist Party. So I'll be |\n| 8 | more precise. |\n| 9 | A
So you don't want us to abolish Chinese |\n| 10 | Community Party.
Our job is to abolish Chinese |\n| 11 | Communist Party. |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
Just answer the question. |\n| 13 | THE WITNESS:
You don't have a question. |\n| 14 | You're just directing something. |\n| 15 | Q
Sometimes I speak in segments to allow the |\n| 16 | interpreter to translate. |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
I think it would be helpful |\n| 18 | if you just ask question and then the witness -- |\n| 19 | I'll instruct him to answer your questions.
That |\n| 20 | would be helpful. |\n| 21 | Q
Did you discuss with Yvette [sic] |\n| 22 | yesterday anything related to preparing for the |\n| 23 | meeting today? |\n| 24 | A
Yes. |\n| 25 | Q
What did you discuss? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
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96 |\n| 1 | A | I ask her to bring those documents here. |\n| 2 | Q | Anything else? |\n| 3 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q | When was Lamp Capital created? |\n| 5 | A | I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q | Why was Lamp Capital created? |\n| 7 | A | I don't know. |\n| 8 | Q | Who created Lamp Capital? |\n| 9 | A | My son. |\n| 10 | Q | How do you know that? |\n| 11 | A | Because I borrow money from my son to pay |\n| 12 | attorney fee. | |\n| 13 | Q | The question is how do you know that your |\n| 14 | | son created Lamp Capital? |\n| 15 | A | Because my son said it. |\n| 16 | Q | He told you himself. |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | Did he ask for any advice from you about |\n| 19 | | whether to create Lamp Capital? |\n| 20 | A | No. |\n| 21 | Q | Did he ask you your opinion on whether he |\n| 22 | | should create Lamp Capital? |\n| 23 | A | No. |\n| 24 | Q | Did he tell you why he was creating Lamp |\n| 25 | Capital? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 98 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\nof 134\n\n| 1 | A
No. |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | Q
When you were talking about your |\n| 3 | malpractice claim against Boise Schiller, you |\n| 4 | mentioned someone you kept referring to as he. I'd |\n| 5 | like to know who that person is? |\n| 6 | A
I don't know what you mean. |\n| 7 | Q
Yes, that was a bad question. I apologize. |\n| 8 | You stated that there was someone who gave |\n| 9 | false documents to the court without your |\n| 10 | permission.
That this person threatened your |\n| 11 | family, that this person threatened you after |\n| 12 | drinking and that this person brought lots of loss |\n| 13 | to you and your family, including not providing |\n| 14 | translated documents before presenting them to the |\n| 15 | judge. |\n| 16 | My question is who is that person? |\n| 17 | A
Schiller.
The Attorney Schiller. |\n| 18 | Q
So Mr. Schiller of the Boise Schiller law |\n| 19 | firm.
Have I got that right? |\n| 20 | A
Yes. |\n| 21 | Q
Thank you. Do you have an understanding of |\n| 22 | what business Lamp Capital is engaged in, if any? |\n| 23 | A
No. |\n| 24 | Q
Different subject.
You said several times |\n| 25 | today in connection with your answers that the |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
98 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | people behind me have done certain things. |\n| 2 | Who are you talking about? |\n| 3 | A
One person behind me, there is a boss |\n| 4 | called Bruno Wu.
He paid the case that -- the rape |\n| 5 | case from (indiscernible)
rape case.
Also there is |\n| 6 | a creditor here and that also was paid by Bruno Wu. |\n| 7 | That attorney fee was paid by Bruno Wu.
And Bruno |\n| 8 | Wu is also his partner and he invested \\$800 million. |\n| 9 | Bruno Wu's partner is also (indiscernible)
previous |\n| 10 | officer and they were investigating and they |\n| 11 | combined a partner with them to investigate my case. |\n| 12 | So April 18, 2017, so this (indiscernible) |\n| 13 | start suing me, bring the lawsuit.
Within this 24 |\n| 14 | hours Bruno Wu is sending me the red note and they |\n| 15 | start bringing the lawsuit. |\n| 16 | MR. HARBACH:
Can I stop -- |\n| 17 | THE WITNESS: The Chinese Communist Party |\n| 18 | stopped the interview, the VOA interview with me. |\n| 19 | They happened at the same time. |\n| 20 | MR. HARBACH:
Or I can let him go. |\n| 21 | THE WITNESS:
All the documents made by |\n| 22 | this attorney firm were all false.
They provide a |\n| 23 | false document to the South District of New York |\n| 24 | court.
They even false claim on my daughter's |\n| 25 | yacht.
The boat is mine.
They sought the judge |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | from the South District Court and I file the |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | bankrupt -- personal bankruptcy case twice and the |\n| 3 | day -- they (indiscernible)
twice including Ms. |\n| 4 | Holley.
And Ms. Holley was present. |\n| 5 | The first time when Ms. Holley was present |\n| 6 | in the court and they false testified saying -- and |\n| 7 | they said my daughter was giving false testimony for |\n| 8 | the Sherry bankruptcy case because my daughter never |\n| 9 | participated in that case. |\n| 10 | And Ms. Holley was there, was present the |\n| 11 | second co date and Ms. Holley was there also.
The |\n| 12 | attorney from the firm was telling the judge and |\n| 13 | they said that I used the Twitter account to -- and |\n| 14 | they said on the Twitter and I was saying on the |\n| 15 | Twitter the south district judge was communist party |\n| 16 | member. |\n| 17 | You can see here all the people behind me |\n| 18 | and one is Bruno Wu and one person paid in many |\n| 19 | cases -- |\n| 20 | MR. HARBACH:
I'd like to ask another |\n| 21 | question. |\n| 22 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 23 | Q
Are you aware one way or the other whether |\n| 24 | your bankruptcy counsel, the Brown Rudnick law firm, |\n| 25 | has ever previously represented Bruno Wu? |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
100 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can I take a |\n| 2 | little break?
I just can't concentrate as much. |\n| 3 | Just too much.
Can I take a break? |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can I ask you to ask that |\n| 5 | question and then we'll take a break? |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yes.
Can you |\n| 7 | repeat that question? |\n| 8 | MR. HARBACH:
I'd be happy to. |\n| 9 | Q
Are you aware one way or the other of |\n| 10 | whether your bankruptcy counsel, the Brown Rudnick |\n| 11 | law firm, previously represented Bruno Wu? |\n| 12 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Represent |\n| 13 | somebody else you said? |\n| 14 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes.
Bruno Wu. |\n| 15 | A
No. |\n| 16 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to take a short |\n| 17 | break. We're going to be back here at 2:45. |\n| 18 | (Break) |\n| 19 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
We are back on |\n| 20 | the record after a short break. |\n| 21 | Mr. Harbach, the floor is yours. |\n| 22 | MR. HARBACH:
Thank you. |\n| 23 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 24 | Q
Ms. Kwok, among the documents in front of |\n| 25 | you, document 78 filed in this case. |\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Which document? This one? MR. HARBACH: Yes. My apologies. Counsel advises me that your copies are not stamped. Q I'm talking about your official from 106. So my question for you starts on page 9, which contains a heading that says Schedule D, creditors who have claimed (indiscernible) by the property. Are you with me? You checked the box yes. And were directed to Schedule D, so that's where I would like you to flip to, please. And it's at page 18. MR. BALDIGA: What's the title? He can maybe find it better with the title. MR. HARBACH: Okay. It's the little chart that is Schedule D, which is a list of creditors with secured claims. BY MR. HARBACH: Q Mr. Kwok, you'll see that there are five separate entries for Golden Spring New York Limited. The data in each column is identical for all five rows. So my question is why are there five identical entries on this schedule? The question is why are there five\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 identical entries on this schedule? A I don't know what that means five -- Q Well, each row is exactly the same. And I'm just asking why there are five rows with the same information? A I don't know. Q Among that documents that you filed were some specific notes and one of those notes discusses the residence on Taconic Road. MR. HARBACH: And for counsel I'm at document 77, page 4. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Which page? MR. HARBACH: Page 4. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: 84? MR. HARBACH: No, Page 4. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Oh, page 4. Okay. BY MR. HARBACH: Q My question really isn't so much about the exact test as it is the substance. So first question, is it true that all expenses related to the Taconic Road House are paid directly by family and family controlled enterprises? A Yes. Q Okay. Which family members?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 104 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|----------|\n| | | | | |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
103 |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | A
My wife, sometimes by my son. |\n| 2 | Q
Which family controlled enterprises? |\n| 3 | A
Which country -- my wife. |\n| 4 | Q
Your wife's not an enterprise.
I'm trying |\n| 5 | to ask which family controlled enterprises pay the |\n| 6 | expenses for the Taconic House? |\n| 7 | A
Greenwich LLC. |\n| 8 | Q
Okay.
Incidentally, how do you know that |\n| 9 | your wife and sometimes you son pay these expenses? |\n| 10 | A
Because I live there. |\n| 11 | Q
Do you observe them pay the expenses? |\n| 12 | A
Yes. |\n| 13 | Q
Is that ever at your request? |\n| 14 | A
I don't remember I request anything. |\n| 15 | Q
Does Greenwich Land LLC -- yes Greenwich |\n| 16 | Land LLC own any other real estate besides 373 |\n| 17 | Taconic Road? |\n| 18 | A
I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q
Do you know anything about the property |\n| 20 | located at 33 Ferncliff in Cos Cob, Connecticut? |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 22 | that? |\n| 23 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. |\n| 24 | Q
33 Ferncliff in Cos Cob, Connecticut. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
31, right? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 105
of 134 |\n|---------------|--------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
104 |\n| 1 | | MR. HARBACH:
No, 33. |\n| 2 | A | Yes, now I remember it. It's also owned by |\n| 3 | my wife's company. | |\n| 4 | Q | That being Greenwich Land? |\n| 5 | A | Maybe. |\n| 6 | Q | Do you know? |\n| 7 | A | I'm not sure. |\n| 8 | Q | Have you ever been to 33 Ferncliff? |\n| 9 | A | Yes. |\n| 10 | Q | How recently? |\n| 11 | A | No.
Not recently. |\n| 12 | Q | Do you know when Greenwich Land purchased |\n| 13 | 33 Ferncliff? | |\n| 14 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 15 | Q | Do you know approximately how much money |\n| 16 | it cost? | |\n| 17 | A | Probably more that \\$1 million. |\n| 18 | Q | Does \\$1.37 million sound about right? |\n| 19 | A | I'm not sure. |\n| 20 | Q | And does the approximate purchase date of |\n| 21 | | September, 2019 sound about right to you? |\n| 22 | A | Not sure. |\n| 23 | Q | Turning back to 373 Taconic for a moment. |\n| 24 | | How much was that property purchased for? |\n| 25 | A | Probably 400 to 500,000. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 106
of 134 |\n|---------------|--------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
105 |\n| 1 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No, no, no. |\n| 2 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
4 to 5 million. |\n| 3 | I'm sorry. | |\n| 4 | Q | Approximate time of purchase of 373 |\n| 5 | | Taconic, if you know? |\n| 6 | A | I don't know. |\n| 7 | Q | Have you ever resided at 33 Ferncliff? |\n| 8 | A | No. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you know whether anyone currently lives |\n| 10 | there? | |\n| 11 | A | Before there is another comrade maybe, you |\n| 12 | | know, for disjoined Chinese Communist Party and he |\n| 13 | was to live there. | |\n| 14 | Q | How long ago? |\n| 15 | A | Probably one to two years ago. |\n| 16 | Q | DO you remember that person's name? |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | What is it? |\n| 19 | A | Wong Din Gong (ph). |\n| 20 | Q | Does anyone currently live there, if you |\n| 21 | know? | |\n| 22 | A | I don't know. |\n| 23 | Q | Talking about 373 Taconic, where did the |\n| 24 | | money come from to purchase that property? |\n| 25 | A | I don't know. |\n\n| | Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 107 |\n|--|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|----------|\n|--|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|----------|\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 106 |\n|----|--------------------|-------------------------------------------------|-----|\n| 1 | Q | Do you know whether the house was | |\n| 2 | | purchased with cash or financing? | |\n| 3 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 4 | Q | Same questions for 33 Ferncliff.
Do you | |\n| 5 | | know where the money came from to purchase that | |\n| 6 | house? | | |\n| 7 | A | I heard it was purchased by cash. | |\n| 8 | Q | From whom -- sorry. From whom did you hear | |\n| 9 | that? | | |\n| 10 | A | I don't remember. | |\n| 11 | Q | Do you know where that money came from? | |\n| 12 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 13 | Q | Do you know what Saraca Media Group is? | |\n| 14 | A | Saraca? | |\n| 15 | Q | Saraca. | |\n| 16 | A | Saraca Media Group.
I do. | |\n| 17 | Q | What is Sirraca Media Group? | |\n| 18 | A | Just Saraca.
It's a company. | |\n| 19 | Q | What kind of company? | |\n| 20 | A | I'm not sure. | |\n| 21 | Q | Have you ever had any relationship with | |\n| 22 | Saraca personally? | | |\n| 23 | A | No. | |\n| 24 | Q | Do you know anything about the type of | |\n| 25 | | business that Saraca conducts? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
of 134 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 108 |\n|---------------|-----------------|-----------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|----------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 107 |\n| 1 | A | | I remember they are related to GTV Media | |\n| 2 | | | platform, or they invested on the GTV Media | |\n| 3 | platform. | | | |\n| 4 | Q | How do you know that? | | |\n| 5 | A | | Because I was their consultant, who owned | |\n| 6 | the consultant. | | And also I was the GTV host. | And |\n| 7 | | | also this is one of the input and platform for | |\n| 8 | | disjoined communist party. | | |\n| 9 | Q | | When you said you were a consultant a | |\n| 10 | | | moment ago was that for Saraca or for GTV? | |\n| 11 | A | GTV. | | |\n| 12 | Q | | Has Saraca ever been -- ever had the 162 | |\n| 13 | | | East 64th Street address associated with it? | |\n| 14 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | Which address? | |\n| 15 | | Can you repeat that one. | | |\n| 16 | Q | Yes. | 162 East 64th Street.
The question | |\n| 17 | | | is whether Saraca has ever been associated with that | |\n| 18 | address? | | | |\n| 19 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 20 | Q | | That is the family office address, | |\n| 21 | correct? | | | |\n| 22 | A | It's one of them. | | |\n| 23 | Q | Where are the other ones? | | |\n| 24 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 25 | Q | | Are there any others in New York City? | |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
108 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | A
I just want to clarify.
Golden Spring is |\n| 2 | one of the companies in this building, 162. |\n| 3 | Q
Understood and thank you. |\n| 4 | We've referred to the family office during |\n| 5 | your questioning and I just want to be clear.
When |\n| 6 | we talk about the family office are we referring to |\n| 7 | that address on East 64th Street? |\n| 8 | A
Yes. |\n| 9 | Q
Has GTV ever been associated with the |\n| 10 | family office address? |\n| 11 | A
I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q
Who owns Saraca? |\n| 13 | A
My son. |\n| 14 | Q
Since when? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Does Saraca currently exist? |\n| 17 | A
I don't know. |\n| 18 | Q
Do you have any idea how many -- do you |\n| 19 | know anything about the value of Saraca's assets? |\n| 20 | A
I don't know. |\n| 21 | Q
Do you know anything about payments Saraca |\n| 22 | has made to GTV? |\n| 23 | A
No, I don't know. |\n| 24 | Q
Has your wife ever told you about any |\n| 25 | multi-million dollar payments from Saraca to |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 110 |\n|---------------|-------------------------------|---------------------------------------|\n|---------------|-------------------------------|---------------------------------------|\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 109 |\n|----|-----------------|------------------------------------------------------|-----|\n| 1 | Greenwich Land? | | |\n| 2 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 3 | Q | You don't know whether he's ever told you | |\n| 4 | | or you don't know about the payments? | |\n| 5 | A | She never told me and I don't even know | |\n| 6 | how much. | | |\n| 7 | Q | Do you know a company called Ziba Limited, | |\n| 8 | Z-I-B-A? | | |\n| 9 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Ziba, Z-I-B-A? | |\n| 10 | | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 12 | Q | I'm sorry if I've already asked this. | |\n| 13 | | What is the relationship, if any, between Saraca and | |\n| 14 | GTV? | | |\n| 15 | A | Saraca is the investor for GTV. | |\n| 16 | Q | Do you know how much money Saraca invested | |\n| 17 | in GTV? | | |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 19 | Q | When was GTV founded? | |\n| 20 | A | 2020.
Maybe 2019.
Not very sure. | |\n| 21 | Q | Do you know the names of any of the | |\n| 22 | | officers or directors of Saraca? | |\n| 23 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 24 | Q | Do you know whether Yvette Wang is an | |\n| 25 | | officer or director of Saraca? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 111
of 134 | |\n|---------------|-------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|-----|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 110 |\n| 1 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 2 | Q | Do you know someone called Hong Chung | |\n| 3 | Wang? | | |\n| 4 | A | Yes. | |\n| 5 | Q | Who is that? | |\n| 6 | A | He's my partner and also comrade for | |\n| 7 | | disjoined Communist Party. | |\n| 8 | Q | Is he a friend of yours? | |\n| 9 | A | Friend, comrade and a partner. | |\n| 10 | Q | What do you mean by partner? | |\n| 11 | A | Because we had a business corporation. | |\n| 12 | Q | Tell me about that. | |\n| 13 | A | Well, I don't remember the name of that | |\n| 14 | company. | It's a company for investigating Communist | |\n| 15 | | Party in USA doing money laundering and committing | |\n| 16 | crimes. | | |\n| 17 | Q | Was it a for profit company? | |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 19 | Q | You don't know? | |\n| 20 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 21 | Q | What was the name of the company? | |\n| 22 | A | I don't remember when getting to English. | |\n| 23 | | I don't remember the name. | |\n| 24 | Q | Approximately what time frame where you | |\n| 25 | | partners with Hong Chung Wang in this company? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 112
of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
111 |\n| 1 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 2 | Q | Within the last three years? |\n| 3 | A | It must be more than three years ago. |\n| 4 | Q | More than ten years? |\n| 5 | A | No. |\n| 6 | Q | Did Hong Chung Wang ever have any |\n| 7 | | connection to Saraca? |\n| 8 | A | I don't know. |\n| 9 | Q | Was he ever an officer or director of |\n| 10 | Saraca? | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q | What does the G in GTV stand for? |\n| 13 | A | God.
The Goal, like in -- G-O-A-L. |\n| 14 | Q | The English word \"goal\"? |\n| 15 | A | Yea.
Goal or God. |\n| 16 | Q | Okay.
How long have you known Hong Chong |\n| 17 | Wang? | |\n| 18 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 19 | Q | More than ten years? |\n| 20 | A | Roughly. |\n| 21 | Q | And do you still consider him a friend |\n| 22 | today? | |\n| 23 | A | Yes. |\n| 24 | | MR. HARBACH:
Just a moment, please. |\n| 25 | Q | There's been many questions today about |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23 | Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 | Page 113 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|----------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|----------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
112 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Golden Spring funding your living expenses. |\n| 2 | Is it correct that as far as your living |\n| 3 | expenses are concerned that none of that is expected |\n| 4 | to be repaid? |\n| 5 | A
Yes, true. |\n| 6 | Q
And so those monies are not the subject of |\n| 7 | any formal agreement, correct? |\n| 8 | A
No. |\n| 9 | Q
And those monies essentially then are a |\n| 10 | gift to you, correct? |\n| 11 | A
Yes. |\n| 12 | Q
What's the Rule of Law Foundation? |\n| 13 | A
What does that mean? |\n| 14 | Q
The question is what is it? |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
The Rule of Law |\n| 16 | Foundation? |\n| 17 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes, sir. |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 19 | it.
Can you ask it another way? |\n| 20 | Q
There's an entity called -- |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh. |\n| 22 | Q
-- the Rule of Law Foundation. |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 24 | MR. HARBACH:
I'll hopefully save some |\n| 25 | time by just asking this question instead. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 114
of 134 |\n|---------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
113 |\n| 1 | Q
Are you familiar with the Rule of Law |\n| 2 | Foundation? |\n| 3 | A
Yes. |\n| 4 | Q
Were you involved in its establishment? |\n| 5 | A
Yes. |\n| 6 | Q
Did you contribute any money to it when it |\n| 7 | was formed? |\n| 8 | A
Not myself. |\n| 9 | Q
Did you direct any entity to contribute to |\n| 10 | the Rule of Law Foundation? |\n| 11 | A
Suggestion in a direct and suggesting any |\n| 12 | difference -- |\n| 13 | Q
If there was a suggestion, please tell me |\n| 14 | it was a suggestion. |\n| 15 | A
I didn't direct anybody or order anybody. |\n| 16 | I just always suggest people to make donations for |\n| 17 | the Foundation. |\n| 18 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
As an |\n| 19 | interpreter, I think that if the witness is asking |\n| 20 | the interpreter questions, the interpreter should |\n| 21 | interpret the question asked by the witness instead |\n| 22 | of answer that question. |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I can answer |\n| 24 | anything. |\n| 25 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
The witness said |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
114 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | are you talking about the (indiscernible)
-- |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
That's why I |\n| 3 | relayed the questions to the attorney. |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
You answer him |\n| 5 | yes, and then you say that. |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, for God's |\n| 7 | sake.
I didn't say -- did I miss anything? |\n| 8 | (Interpretation.) |\n| 9 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
No |\n| 10 | question.
He said no question was not answered. |\n| 11 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 12 | Q
Did you ever suggested to any of your |\n| 13 | family members that they donate to the Rule of Law |\n| 14 | Foundation? |\n| 15 | A
Yes, I did suggest. |\n| 16 | Q
Did any of your family members or the |\n| 17 | family controlled enterprises contribute money to |\n| 18 | the Rule of Law Foundation? |\n| 19 | A
Yes. |\n| 20 | Q
How much money? |\n| 21 | A
For cash there is one -- over \\$1 million. |\n| 22 | From Hong Kong, Japan and Mainland -- in |\n| 23 | China and all combined it should be more than 30 |\n| 24 | million. |\n| 25 | Q
And just focusing for the moment on |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
115 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | contributions from your family at your suggestion. |\n| 2 | Approximately, how much money is that? |\n| 3 | A
I don't know the details.
Because of |\n| 4 | security reasons they don't want me to know. |\n| 5 | Q
Did you say a moment ago that your family |\n| 6 | contributed over a million dollars? |\n| 7 | A
One million cash is in New York here. |\n| 8 | Q
When was that? |\n| 9 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 10 | Q
Is the reason -- well, let me ask it this |\n| 11 | way.
Did you suggest an amount to your family |\n| 12 | members that they should contribute to the Rule of |\n| 13 | Law Foundation? |\n| 14 | A
I want them to donate the more the better. |\n| 15 | Q
Is that what you told them? |\n| 16 | A
Yes. |\n| 17 | Q
Do you know whether the Rule of Law |\n| 18 | Foundation is associated with the family office |\n| 19 | address on 64th Street? |\n| 20 | A
Yes. |\n| 21 | Q
Did you ever make a \\$100 million donation |\n| 22 | to the Rule of Law Foundation in November of 2018? |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 24 | that again? |\n| 25 | Q
Did you ever make a \\$100 million donation |\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 to the Rule of Law Foundation in November, 2018? A No. In the live stream like I want -- tried to collect the funds, in the live stream show. Q Did you ever -- MR. BALDIGA: Wait. Was that his whole answer? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Yeah. Something wrong? THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: Not quite exactly what the witness said. (Indiscernible) broadcasting is okay. Live stream is okay. But collect money -- THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Asking for donation, right? (Interpretation) THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: Raise -- THE WITNESS: Raising money, raise donations. Yeah, in the live stream broadcast thing, or whatever, you know, asking for donations to -- you know, to raise funds, to raise money. Q Did you ever promise to donate \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Fund? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: 10 billion you said? MR. HARBACH: No, sir. 1 billion.\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
117 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, one |\n| 2 | billion. |\n| 3 | A
I don't remember. I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q
Do you mean that it's possible that you |\n| 5 | made that promise? |\n| 6 | A
So we could reach that goal if we combine |\n| 7 | the organizations all over the world. |\n| 8 | Q
Understand.
And it's a simple question. I |\n| 9 | just don't know the answer. |\n| 10 | Did you yourself ever promise to donate \\$1 |\n| 11 | billion to the Rule of Law fund? |\n| 12 | A
In the past five years I did the live |\n| 13 | stream over 5,000 times.
Some of the live stream |\n| 14 | could have reached four or five hours.
It's hard |\n| 15 | for me to remember every sentence I said. |\n| 16 | Q
Well, I understand that, but I'm only |\n| 17 | asking about one issue.
And it is whether you ever |\n| 18 | promised publicly, or privately or anyhow to donate |\n| 19 | \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Fund? |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
He did not say |\n| 21 | invest. |\n| 22 | MR. HARBACH:
Donate |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, donate. |\n| 24 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 25 | Q
I'll ask this one one more time. |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | Are you saying that it is possible that |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | you made such a promise.
You just can't be sure? |\n| 3 | A
In front of Ms. Holley I wouldn't say |\n| 4 | anything is possible but this is a very serious |\n| 5 | issue.
Now they start the scheme again. |\n| 6 | Q
Well, this isn't what did you have for |\n| 7 | breakfast three days ago.
This is did you promise |\n| 8 | to donate \\$1 billion and if the answer is you don't |\n| 9 | know, that's okay. |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
I think that's what the |\n| 11 | answer has been. |\n| 12 | MR. HARBACH:
No, the answer has been I |\n| 13 | don't remember. |\n| 14 | MR. BALDIGA:
Don't remember. |\n| 15 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes, sir. That's a little |\n| 16 | different. |\n| 17 | Q
So the answer might be no, but you're not |\n| 18 | saying no.
You're saying you don't remember. |\n| 19 | A
I said it three times, I don't remember. |\n| 20 | MR. BALDIGA:
There's no question -- |\n| 21 | A
Because in the past five years |\n| 22 | (indiscernible)
always making these kind of answers |\n| 23 | for me so that's why the judge from the South |\n| 24 | District were fooled by you and you started again -- |\n| 25 | Q
I'll move on. |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n A In the South District court I only met judge 20 seconds. I didn't say one sentence within this five years and I was fined a total about \\$300 million because that's what they did. MR. BALDIGA: All right. Let's stop it. Let's wait for a question and we'll answer the question. MR. HARBACH: Bill, I appreciate your patience. I'll move on. MR. BALDIGA: Translate what I said, please. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Can you repeat that? Everybody's saying at the time. MR. BALDIGA: Ask a question and he'll answer a question. Q Have you made any donations to the Rule of Law Foundation in the last two years? A Myself, right? Q Yes, sir. A No. Q Have you suggested to any of your family that they make donations to the Rule of Law Foundation within the last two years? A I don't remember. Q Would you ever have made a promise to\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
120 |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | donate \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Foundation if |\n| 2 | you did not actually have that money? |\n| 3 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection to form. |\n| 4 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 5 | it.
Can you repeat one more time. |\n| 6 | Q
Would you have ever made a promise to |\n| 7 | donate \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Foundation if |\n| 8 | you did not actually have that money. |\n| 9 | MR. BALDIGA:
And I objected. |\n| 10 | MR. HARBACH:
And then Bill objected. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said are you |\n| 12 | -- want to sentencing me to death sentence? |\n| 13 | Q
Approximately how much is the Lady May |\n| 14 | worth? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Over the years that you have been aboard |\n| 17 | the Lady May, approximately how many times have you |\n| 18 | invited friends to join you? |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 20 | that question one more time? |\n| 21 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. |\n| 22 | Q
Over the years that you had been aboard |\n| 23 | the Lady May, approximately how many times have you |\n| 24 | invited friends out to join you? |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Hold on. |\n\n# Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 MR. HARBACH: Sorry, Bill. MR. BALDIGA: David, you have a deposition on the Lady May issues coming up. You can choose today or then. Either one is fine. Case 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23 Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 Page 122 of 134\n\n MR. HARBACH: That's a fair point. I'll move on.\n\n MR. BALDIGA: Okay. No question. MR. HARBACH: If I could direct counsel's attention again to document 77. And I want to focus on question 19.\n\n Q Mr. Kwok, let me know when you're read that question. It's no. 19.\n\n(Pause.)\n\nA Finished.\n\n Q Okay. So for the benefit of the record, the question says within ten years before you filed for bankruptcy did you transfer any property to a self settled trust or similar device of which you are a beneficiary?\n\nA No.\n\n Q And that is indeed what you checked on the form. My question for you is if you turn -- if changed the word you to a family member as the beneficiary, what would the answer be? MR. BALDIGA: Objection.\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22
Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 123
of 134 |\n|---------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
122 |\n| 1 | A
I cannot answer questions with if. |\n| 2 | Q
I'll ask it a different way. |\n| 3 | MR. HARBACH:
And, Jack, I'll ask you to |\n| 4 | bear with me. |\n| 5 | Q
Within ten years before you filed for |\n| 6 | bankruptcy did you transfer any property to a self |\n| 7 | settled trust or similar device of which a member of |\n| 8 | your family is a beneficiary? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | Q
Sticking with that same document going |\n| 11 | forward to question 27.
Just let me know when |\n| 12 | you're read it, sir. |\n| 13 | (Pause.) |\n| 14 | A
Okay. I'm finished. |\n| 15 | Q
So you see there you have checked the box |\n| 16 | next to the word yes.
And then the instructions say |\n| 17 | check all that apply above and fill in the details |\n| 18 | below for each business. |\n| 19 | MR. HARBACH:
Do you see where that is, |\n| 20 | Jack? |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't see |\n| 22 | that. |\n| 23 | MR. HARBACH:
Next -- Holley can show you. |\n| 24 | (Pause.) |\n| 25 | MR. HARBACH:
So I was just pointing out |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
123 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | to the witness -- for the benefit of the translator |\n| 2 | I'll say it again. |\n| 3 | Q
Next to the box that is checked yes, the |\n| 4 | instructions say check all that apply above and fill |\n| 5 | in the details below for each business.
None of the |\n| 6 | boxes above is checked and that's my question. |\n| 7 | Which box or boxes should be checked for |\n| 8 | each of those three entities that you have listed? |\n| 9 | A
I cannot determine which one. |\n| 10 | Q
Is that something you would need more time |\n| 11 | to figure out or you just don't know the answer? |\n| 12 | A
I could answer one by one. |\n| 13 | Q
Okay. Let's do that.
Let's start with |\n| 14 | Genever. |\n| 15 | A
Which Genever? |\n| 16 | Q
Well, the one that's listed is Genever |\n| 17 | Holdings Corporation. |\n| 18 | Which of those boxes would you check for |\n| 19 | Genever Holdings Corporation, if any? |\n| 20 | A
It was one time -- it was a member of LLC. |\n| 21 | The above don't apply and should transfer to no. 12 |\n| 22 | -- transfer to 12. |\n| 23 | It used to be an LLC. |\n| 24 | Q
Are you saying that you would check the |\n| 25 | box for a member of an LLC but it should be in the |\n\nof 134\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 124 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------|-----|\n| 1 | past tense? | | |\n| 2 | A | Yes.
Used to be. | |\n| 3 | Q | Do any of the other boxes apply to your | |\n| 4 | | relationship to Genever Holdings Corporation? | |\n| 5 | A | The last row seems like appropriate for | |\n| 6 | me. I'm not very sure. | | |\n| 7 | Q | The last row being an owner of at least | |\n| 8 | five percent of the voting or equity securities of a | | |\n| 9 | corporation? | | |\n| 10 | A | I owned 50 percent for a very short period | |\n| 11 | of time. | | |\n| 12 | Q | Okay.
What about for Shiny Time? | |\n| 13 | A | Shiny Time already went away. | |\n| 14 | Q | I understand.
When it was in existence, | |\n| 15 | | which of those boxes was accurate? | |\n| 16 | A | Number one. | |\n| 17 | Q | A sole proprietor? | |\n| 18 | A | Yes. | |\n| 19 | Q | Any of the others? | |\n| 20 | A | Not sure. | |\n| 21 | Q | Okay.
What about for Well Origin Limited? | |\n| 22 | A | It went away. | |\n| 23 | Q | Okay.
Same question though.
Which of | |\n| 24 | those boxes applied when it was in existence? | | |\n| 25 | A | Number one. | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 126
of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
125 |\n| 1 | Q | Any of the others? |\n| 2 | A | Not sure. |\n| 3 | Q | One last point about this question. |\n| 4 | | For Genever Holdings Corporation the block |\n| 5 | | for the dates that the business existed is blank. |\n| 6 | | Do you know what those dates should be? |\n| 7 | A | 2015.
Probably March, April to June, |\n| 8 | July. | |\n| 9 | Q | Of which year? |\n| 10 | A | 2015. |\n| 11 | Q | So from approximately March or April until |\n| 12 | | approximately July all in 2015? |\n| 13 | A | Yes. |\n| 14 | Q | Okay.
And is that the entire duration |\n| 15 | | that that corporation existed? |\n| 16 | A | I was in the company for a few months, for |\n| 17 | | this period of time, a few months and with holding - |\n| 18 | - in stock holding. | And the company still existed |\n| 19 | after I left. | |\n| 20 | Q | I understand.
And does it still exist |\n| 21 | today? | |\n| 22 | A | I believe it still exists. |\n| 23 | Q | Okay.
In what year did you get married? |\n| 24 | A | 1918 -- or 1985. |\n| 25 | Q | What year was your son born? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 127
of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
126 |\n| 1 | A | 1986. |\n| 2 | Q | And how old are you, sir? |\n| 3 | A | 54. |\n| 4 | Q | How old was your son when your family |\n| 5 | | began working with Uda Property Company? |\n| 6 | A | 11.
Oh, five years -- five years old. |\n| 7 | Q | And so that would have been in |\n| 8 | | approximately 1991 that your family began working |\n| 9 | with Uda? | |\n| 10 | A | Yes. |\n| 11 | Q | When was the Henan Uda Hotel completed? |\n| 12 | A | In 1997. |\n| 13 | Q | And what about the Uda International Trade |\n| 14 | Center. | When was it completed? |\n| 15 | A | At pretty much the same time. |\n| 16 | Q | In your declaration in this case you |\n| 17 | | stated that both of those were successful ventures. |\n| 18 | A | Yes. |\n| 19 | Q | That allowed your family to start amassing |\n| 20 | significant wealth. | |\n| 21 | A | Yes. |\n| 22 | Q | So recognizing that this is in the early |\n| 23 | | '90's how much money approximately did those |\n| 24 | | ventures bring to your family? |\n| 25 | A | I don't remember. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 128
of 134 |\n|---------------|----------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
127 |\n| 1 | Q | More than \\$50 million? |\n| 2 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
50 or 15? |\n| 3 | | MR. HARBACH:
5-0. |\n| 4 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, okay. |\n| 5 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 6 | Q | What about the Pengu Plaza?
When was it |\n| 7 | completed? | |\n| 8 | A | July 2008. |\n| 9 | Q | So between the early '90's and 2008 what |\n| 10 | | other projects of significant did the Guo family |\n| 11 | | invest in or participate in? |\n| 12 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Since 1990's to |\n| 13 | -- | |\n| 14 | A | Between the early 1990's and 2008. |\n| 15 | Q | Do you remember any of them?
Any of the |\n| 16 | | significant ventures? |\n| 17 | A | Beijing Golden Spring. |\n| 18 | Q | What was that? |\n| 19 | A | It's a property company.
Real estate. |\n| 20 | | It's a real estate company. |\n| 21 | Q | Was this a development company or a -- |\n| 22 | | like a buying and selling agency? |\n| 23 | A | Developing company. |\n| 24 | Q | When was the Pangu Plaza project started, |\n| 25 | approximately? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
Page 129
of 134 |\n|---------------|--------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
128 |\n| 1 | A | Roughly 1999. |\n| 2 | Q | Okay. So let's use that as a point in |\n| 3 | time. | |\n| 4 | | At the beginning of the Pangu Plaza |\n| 5 | | project approximately how much had the family |\n| 6 | amassed in wealth? | |\n| 7 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Ask that |\n| 8 | question again? | |\n| 9 | | MR. HARBACH:
Sure. |\n| 10 | Q | As of 1999, which was the beginning of the |\n| 11 | | Pangu Plaza project, approximately how much wealth |\n| 12 | | had the family earned or amassed by that time? |\n| 13 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
You're talking |\n| 14 | about after 1999? | |\n| 15 | | MR. HARBACH:
No, I'm talking about as of |\n| 16 | 1999? | |\n| 17 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, as of 1999. |\n| 18 | Q | How much money had the family made by |\n| 19 | 1999? | |\n| 20 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 21 | Q | More than \\$100 million? |\n| 22 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 23 | Q | More than \\$500 million? |\n| 24 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 25 | Q | More than a billion dollars? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 1604-22 | Filed 03/27/23
Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10
of 134 | Page 130 |\n|---------------|-------------|-------------------------------------------------------|----------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 129 |\n| 1 | A | I don't remember. | |\n| 2 | Q | Were you personally involved in the work | |\n| 3 | | with Uda Property Company? | |\n| 4 | A | Yes. | |\n| 5 | Q | Were you personally involved in the | |\n| 6 | | development of the Henan Uda Hotel? | |\n| 7 | A | Yes. | |\n| 8 | Q | Were you personally involved in the Uda | |\n| 9 | | International Trade Center in Zhengzhou? | |\n| 10 | A | Yes. | |\n| 11 | Q | Were you personally involved in the | |\n| 12 | | development of the Pengu Plaza? | |\n| 13 | A | Yes. | |\n| 14 | Q | Who was in charge of the Beijing Golden | |\n| 15 | | Spring Real Estate Development firm? | |\n| 16 | A | A professional group. | |\n| 17 | Q | Were you a member of that group? | |\n| 18 | A | At that time I was a consultant. | |\n| 19 | Q | For Beijing Golden Spring? | |\n| 20 | A | Yes. | |\n| 21 | Q | During what time frame was that, | |\n| 22 | | approximately that you were a consultant for them? | |\n| 23 | A | After 2000. | |\n| 24 | Q | After 2000.
Okay. | |\n| 25 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Harbach, I just want to | |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
130 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | note that it is 4:18 and I know we've had a long day |\n| 2 | -- and I wanted to give -- I apologize for |\n| 3 | interrupting you, first of all. |\n| 4 | MR. HARBACH:
That's all right. |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
But I wanted to give |\n| 6 | counsel for the committee a chance to ask a few |\n| 7 | questions today before we conclude. |\n| 8 | MR. HARBACH:
Of course.
Sure. |\n| 9 | MR. STAFSTROM:
I'll be very brief. |\n| 10 | EXAMINATION BY MR. STAFSTROM: |\n| 11 | Q
I noticed your hair is very short. I like |\n| 12 | it.
Have you gotten a haircut recently? |\n| 13 | A
Yes.
I had a haircut. |\n| 14 | Q
Where did you get it cut? |\n| 15 | A
My wife. |\n| 16 | Q
Oh, your wife.
Okay. |\n| 17 | Does she always cut your hair? |\n| 18 | A
After the virus until now. |\n| 19 | Q
Okay.
All right. I have no further |\n| 20 | questions then. |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to put the |\n| 22 | recording on pause while we work on selecting a new |\n| 23 | date. |\n| 24 | (Off the record.) |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We're back on the record |\n\n| | of 134 | | |\n|----|-----------------------------|---------------------------------------------|--------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 131 |\n| 1 | after a short break. | We have selected a continuance | |\n| 2 | | date of April 29th, beginning at 10:00 a.m. | We are |\n| 3 | concluded for today. | Thank you. | |\n| 4 | (Meeting adjourned.) | | |\n| 5 | | | |\n| 6 | | | |\n| 7 | | | |\n| 8 | | | |\n| 9 | | | |\n| 10 | | | |\n| 11 | | | |\n| 12 | | | |\n| 13 | | | |\n| 14 | | | |\n| 15 | | | |\n| 16 | | | |\n| 17 | | | |\n| 18 | | | |\n| 19 | | | |\n| 20 | | | |\n| 21 | | | |\n| 22 | | | |\n| 23 | | | |\n| 24 | | | |\n| | | | |\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n I, CHRISTINE FIORE, court-approved transcriber and certified electronic reporter and transcriber, certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the official electronic sound recording of the proceedings in the above-entitled matter.\n\n9 April 15, 2022\n\n11 Transcriber\n\n10 Christine Fiore, CERT\n\nof 134\n\n| | | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 133 |\n|----|------------------------------|--|-----------------------------|------|-----|\n| 1 | | | INDEX | | |\n| 2 | | | | | |\n| 3 | | | | Page | |\n| 4 | Examination by Ms. Claiborn | | | 6 | |\n| 5 | Examination by Mr. Wolman | | | 71 | |\n| 6 | Examination by Mr. Harbach | | | 80 | |\n| 7 | Examination by Mr. Stafstrom | | | 130 | |\n| 8 | | | | | |\n| 9 | | | | | |\n| 10 | | | | | |\n| 11 | | | | | |\n| 12 | | | | | |\n| 13 | | | | | |\n| 14 | | | | | |\n| 15 | | | | | |\n| 16 | | | | | |\n| 17 | | | | | |\n| 18 | | | | | |\n| 19 | | | | | |\n| 20 | | | | | |\n| 21 | | | | | |\n| 22 | | | | | |\n| 23 | | | | | |\n| 24 | | | | | |\n| 25 | | | | | |","body_zh":"证物22\n\n美国破产法院\n康涅狄格州地区\n\n关于 * 第11章\n*\n*\nHO WAN KWOK（郭文贵）， * 案号 22-50073(JAM)\n债务人。 *\n*\n*\n* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *\n续行\n341 债权人会议记录\n2022年4月6日\n由\n美国受托人办公室电子录音\n记录整理人：\nShelton, CT Christine Fiore（克里斯汀·菲奥雷），CERT\nFiore Reporting and Transcription Service, Inc.（菲奥雷记录与誊写服务公司）\n4 Research Drive, Suite 402\n\n(203)929-9992\n\n案号 22-50073\n文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23\n134 录入日期 03/27/23 14:12:10 第 3 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n出庭人员：\n代表债务人： WILLIAM R. BALDIGA, ESQ.（威廉·R·巴尔迪加律师）\nBEN SILVERBERG, ESQ.（本·西尔弗伯格律师）\nBrown Rudnick, LLP（布朗·鲁德尼克律师事务所）\nSeven Times Square\nNew York, NY\n\n代表美国受托人： HOLLEY E. CLAIBORN, ESQ.（霍莉·E·克莱伯恩律师）\nSTEVEN MACKEY, ESQ.（史蒂文·麦基律师）\n美国受托人办公室\n150 State Street\nNew Haven, CT\n\n代表 Logan Cheng（程乐根），\n债权人： JAY MARSHALL WOLMAN, ESQ.（杰伊·马歇尔·沃尔曼律师）\nRandazza Legal Group（兰达扎法律集团）\n100 Pearl Street, 14th Floor\nHartford, CT 06103\n代表 Pacific Alliance\nLP，债权人： Asia Opportunity Fund（亚洲机会基金）， DAVID V. HARBACH, II, ESQ.（戴维·V·哈巴赫二世律师）\nO'Melveny & Myers, LLP（欧麦律师事务所）\n1625 I Street NW\nWashington, DC\n\nSTUART SARNOFF, ESQ.（斯图尔特·萨诺夫律师）\nMAKENZIE RUSSO（麦肯齐·鲁索）\nO'Melveny & Myers, LLP（欧麦律师事务所）\nTimes Square Tower\n7 Times Square\nNew York, NY\n\nANNECCA SMITH, ESQ.（安妮卡·史密斯律师）\nRobinson and Cole（罗宾逊与科尔律师事务所）\n280 Trumbull Street\nHartford, CT\n\n代表 Bruno Wu（吴征）、Weican\nMeng（孟伟康）及 Rui Ma（马蕊），\n债权人： KRISTEN MAYHEW, ESQ.（克里斯滕·梅休律师）\nMcElroy, Deutsch, Mulvaney &\nCarpenter（麦克尔罗伊、德意志、马尔瓦尼与卡彭特律师事务所）\nOne State Street\nHartford, CT\n\n代表无担保债权人\n正式委员会： STEVEN STAFSTROM, ESQ.（史蒂文·斯塔夫斯特罗姆律师）\nPullman & Comley（普尔曼与康利律师事务所）\n850 Main Street\nBridgeport, CT\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n早上好。今天是2022年4月6日，星期三。我们在此就Ho Wan Kwok（郭文贵）的第11章案件，即案号22-50073，举行续行债权人会议。\n\n我的名字是Holley Claiborn（霍莉·克莱伯恩）。我是美国受托人办公室的一名出庭律师，并将主持今天的会议。今天的会议正在使用数字录音设备录音，各方也可以通过电话参加。债务人、律师及其他专业人士等各方人员亦亲自在此出席。\n\n如各位所听到，今天的会议正在进行口译，今天的口译员是Jeff（杰夫）；我将请杰夫就此宣誓。\n\n（口译员宣誓。）\n\n法院：\n代表Kwok先生的是William Baldiga（威廉·巴尔迪加）和Ben Silverberg（本·西尔弗伯格）。\n\n代表债务人的还有财务专业人士Craig Gelbert（克雷格·盖尔伯特）和Matthew Flynn（马修·弗林）。\n\n今天代表无担保债权人委员会出席的是来自Pullman and Comley（普尔曼与康利）的Steven Stafstrom（史蒂文·斯塔夫斯特罗姆）。\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\nStafstrom先生是无担保债权人正式委员会的律师。\n\n今天代表PAACS出席的还有Stuart Sarnoff（斯图尔特·萨诺夫）、David Harbach（戴维·哈巴赫）和MacKenzie Russo（麦肯齐·鲁索）。他们代表PAACS。\n\n代表包括Rui Ma（马蕊）在内的若干债权人的是Kristen Mayhew（克里斯滕·梅休）。\n\n代表债权人Logan Cheng（程乐根）的是Jay Wolman（杰伊·沃尔曼）。\n\n代表PAACS的还有来自Robinson and Cole（罗宾逊与科尔）的Annecca Smith（安妮卡·史密斯）。\n\n今天代表债务人的还有Josh Klein（乔希·克莱因）和Aaron Mitchell（亚伦·米切尔）。\n\n今天的会议将先由我提问，随后债权人将有机会提出问题。\n\n是否有人在线上电话会议线路中？\n\n麦基先生：\n美国受托人办公室的Steven Mackey（史蒂文·麦基）在线上会议线路中。\n\n谢谢你，Mackey先生。除Mackey先生外，还有其他人吗？\n\n没有听到回应，我将继续对Kwok先生进行宣誓。\n\n（债务人宣誓。）\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\nKwok先生，您知道，今天的会议正在录音，而这里的Jeff先生是我们今天的正式口译员。\n\nJeff将口译我所提出的问题及您的回答。我要求您在Jeff完成完整翻译后再回答我的问题。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问 Kwok先生，今天我们将从2022年3月21日举行的上次债权人会议总体上中断之处继续进行。\n\n自2022年3月21日以来，您的就业状况是否发生任何变化？\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 您的居住状况是否发生任何变化？\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 在2022年3月21日举行的会议中，我曾询问您破产财产清单及您的破产财务状况说明的准确性。\n\n答 没有变化。\n\n问 谢谢。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\nJeff，为便于我提问，我将按照您面前的文件进行。当我说“财产清单”时，是指这份文件。然后这份文件是财务状况说明。明白吗？当我提到ECF编号时，它在页面顶部。\n\n正式口译员：\nECF编号。\n\n好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n好的？这样您就可以跟上，并从这一页开始。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问 好的。Kwok先生，我要请您确认您面前有——看来您确实有——附表A-B至J。\n\n私人口译员：\n他面前有普通话译本。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问 我看到坐在您旁边的Baldiga先生有英文版本。但Kwok先生，您面前的似乎是译本。这是否准确？\n\n答 只有附表A-B。\n\n问 好的。因此，Kwok先生，您今天回答我的问题时，将查看您自己所持的破产财产清单译本。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22\n提交日期 03/27/23\n录入日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n答 好的。\n\n问 好的。\n\n私人口译员：\n请稍等，法官阁下。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。\n\n私人口译员：\n在正式口译员口译证人的回答时，我听起来有一点困难。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。那么，Jack（杰克），如果您能提高音量。我将移动麦克风。\n\n正式口译员：\n哦，好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n看看这样是否有效。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问 好的。Kwok先生，从附表A-B的第1问开始。就附表A-B第1问而言，该问题询问您是否拥有对任何不动产、住所、建筑物或类似财产的任何法定或衡平权益。您对第1问的回答是否定的，Kwok先生。这一回答准确吗？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 Kwok先生，您在2018年至您于2022年2月提交破产申请期间，是否曾拥有任何不动产？\n\n正式口译员：\n您能重复一下吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23 录入日期 03/27/23 14:12:10 第 9 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问 您在2018年至您于2022年2月提交破产申请期间，是否曾拥有任何不动产？\n\n正式口译员：\n您能重复一下吗？他说他没有听到。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问 Kwok先生——\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n抱歉，我没有听到。\n\n正式口译员：\n他说他不理解翻译。我只是想先确认我理解了。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我将重复这个问题。\n\n正式口译员：\n好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问 Kwok先生，您在2018年至2022年2月期间，是否曾拥有任何不动产？\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 Kwok先生，截至2022年2月提交破产申请时，您对世界任何地方的任何不动产是否拥有任何衡平权益？\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 Kwok先生，截至2022年2月提交破产申请时，您对世界任何地方的任何不动产是否拥有任何法定权益？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22\n提交日期 03/27/23\n录入日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 Kwok先生，您是否曾在香港拥有任何不动产？\n\n答 没有。\n\n私人口译员：\n回答是什么？\n\n正式口译员：\n没有。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问 Kwok先生，您是否曾拥有位于香港南湾道16A号的房产？\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 Kwok先生，您目前是否拥有纽约市Sherry Netherland（谢里·内瑟兰）的一套公寓？\n\n正式口译员：\n我没有听清。我能请他重复——重复回答吗？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n你必须说——无论你要说什么，你必须——你是在对所有人说，而不只是对Holley说，所以我需要听到你在说什么。\n\n正式口译员：\n好的。我只是——我只是想请他重复——重复回答。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n好的。\n\n正式口译员：\n好的？\n\n共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n证人：\n我不拥有纽约的那处不动产，Sharon——Sharons——那个地址我不记得了，而我拥有——我拥有50%的股份——股份，而且——\n\n私人口译员：\n没有。\n\n正式口译员：\n没有？\n\n私人口译员：\n没有。\n\n正式口译员：\n好的。\n\n证人：\n为家庭持有。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我可以请您不要打断吗？您能否等到最后，然后——\n\n私人口译员：\n好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——您可以表达您想说的任何内容？\n\n私人口译员：\n好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n您能否请再翻译一次Kwok先生的回答？\n\n正式口译员：\n好的。我只是想重复，确认——并且我说得对，你知道，他所说的话。\n\n证人：\n所以，是的，他——他说，我拥——我拥有50%的——50%，但我不拥有整处不动产，我只是代表家庭。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23 录入日期 03/27/23 14:12:10 第12页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 共134页\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问 Kwok先生，您拥有50%的什么？\n\n答 Bravo Luck（布拉沃·拉克），50%的股份权——权力。我不知道。我不明白。\n\n私人口译员：\n（听不清。）\n\n正式口译员：\n他说他拥有其中50%。\n\n私人口译员：\n——我们能很好地听到你，Holley。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。我将问——我将——\n\n私人口译员：\n我不知道麦克风是否连接到任何设备。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n它连接了。它连接了。Jeff，您能提高音量吗？\n\n正式口译员：\nKwok先生说他欠——他拥有50%的——股份。是像不动产的股份还是其他什么？我不知道。我不明白。但如果她想让他帮忙，你可以帮忙。您想让他稍微帮一点忙吗？\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我宁愿不要。\n\n正式口译员：\n好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n那么，我将——我将提出后续问题。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22\n提交日期 03/27/23\n录入日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n正式口译员：\n好的。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n好的。但如果是误译，我需要听到，所以——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n如果可以的话，我将提出一个澄清问题。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问 Kwok先生，您是否拥有一家名为Bravo Luck（布拉沃·拉克）的公司50%的权益？\n\n答 我代表我的家庭持有50%的股份。\n\n问 Kwok先生，当您使用“家庭”一词时——\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n我能再听一遍吗？您能重复一下吗？\n\n正式口译员：\n好的。我代表我的家庭持有该——该公司的50%的股份。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问 Kwok先生，当您说“家庭”时，是什么意思？\n\n答 我的家庭是一个大家庭，其中包括很多人。我的孩子和我的妯娌，以及所有人在一起。很多人。\n\n问 Kwok先生，谁拥有一项权益——\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n请原谅。我们确实有一名\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）—2022年4月6日\n口译问题。\n\n私人口译员：\n我想问一下，口译是否应当对（听不清）的内容作出概述？\n\n克莱伯恩女士（Ms. Claiborn）：\n在杰夫先生（Mr. Jeff）能力所及的范围内，应当逐字翻译。\n\n私人口译员：\n对。那么，如果郭先生说，我的儿子、我的女儿、我的兄弟、我的嫂子、我的侄子、我的侄女，很多人，那么如果口译员说，嗯，我的很多家人和我的兄弟，很多人，那么这是否正确？\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我希望杰夫先生尽可能逐字直译。按照这一指示，我们能否——\n\n法院指定口译员：\n可以。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——尽我们所能，从现在起做好具体的翻译工作？谢谢。\n\n巴尔迪加先生（Mr. Baldiga）：\n谢谢。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问：那么，郭先生，谁拥有名为 Bravo Luck（幸运卓越公司）的公司？\n\n答：我的儿子。\n\n问：您儿子的名字是什么？\n\n答：Cheng Wu（吴成）。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22\n提交日期 03/27/23\n登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）—2022年4月6日\n\n问：您儿子拥有 Bravo Luck 多久了？\n\n答：我不记得了。\n\n私人口译员：\n请再说一遍。\n\n法院指定口译员：\n我不记得了。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问：那么，郭先生，在您说明自己在 Southern Sherry Netherland（南部谢里-尼德兰）的所有权权益时，您拥有其中的50%是指什么？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n反对。你可以翻译。\n\n法院指定口译员：\nHolley（霍利），你能再重复一遍吗？\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问：郭先生，您作证称您拥有某家公司的50%，这是对我询问您是否拥有 Sherry Netherland（谢里-尼德兰）公寓时所作出的回答。您能否解释一下您的意思？\n\n答：Sherry 是合作公寓。它没有——它没有——它没有所有权。\n\n私人口译员：\nHolley 女士，我可以说一下吗？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n可以，当然。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23 登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10 第16页\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）—2022年4月6日\n\n私人口译员：\n你得说大声一点。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。我们先暂停一下。\n\n（休庭记录之外）\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。短暂休息后，我们恢复庭审记录，郭先生，您仍在宣誓之下。杰夫，您能否重新翻译？\n\n法院指定口译员：\n可以。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n刚才最后一个问题。你想让我再问一遍吗？\n\n法院指定口译员：\n可以。你能再问一遍吗？\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。我再试一次。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问：郭先生，您今天作证称，您拥有某家公司的50%权益，这是您对我询问您是否拥有 Sherry Netherland 公寓时给出的回答。您能否解释一下您的回答？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n反对。\n\n证人：\n我不知道该如何解释。他说 Sherry Netherland 是合作公寓。我没有该财产的契据，我只是代表我的家人持有50%的权利。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n不好意思。请继续。\n\n私人口译员：\n因为——郭先生确实提到了公司名称 Bravo Luck，但口译员先生没有说出 Bravo Luck 这个词。该公司持有 Sherry Netherland 的权益，郭先生代表其家人拥有 Bravo Luck 的50%，该公司是拥有 Sherry Netherland 的控股公司。Sherry Netherland 是合作公寓。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n因此，我将提出持续反对，只要口译员没有提供证人所使用的确切措辞。我并非归咎于任何人或其他什么，但显然，这对于证词的质量至关重要，也是必要的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我们需要——\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n我们必须使用证人所用的措辞。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我相信杰夫今天会尽其最大努力，尽可能逐字翻译一切。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n谢谢。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n但请理解，本庭人员对某些术语有所熟悉，而杰夫先生并不熟悉。因此，在有人以公司名称的简称或仅以一个词回答问题的情况下，回答应尽可能具体——\n\n法院指定口译员：\n可以，我——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——如果你能翻译这一点。\n\n法院指定口译员：\n——我会尽力，但坦率地说，Holley，那位口译员可能更了解本案，更了解细节。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我同意。你能不能——\n\n法院指定口译员：\n但如果他——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——你能否把我刚才所说的话翻译给郭先生，因为我想确保——\n\n法院指定口译员：\n哦。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——他以易于翻译的方式回答问题。\n\n法院指定口译员：\n我只是告诉他，回答要简短清楚，但我基本上能理解他所说的内容，而且——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n你也能否把郭先生的回答或意见翻译成你的意见？\n\n法院指定口译员：\n他说他会尽量简短清楚——但他需要尽可能详细地解释，因为这——这关系到他的生活保障。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n萨诺夫先生（Mr. Sarnoff）？\n\n萨诺夫先生：\n是。我只是想明确，如果口译员——翻译员、官方翻译员与郭先生的口译员之间存在分歧，翻译员是最终裁决者；除非翻译员同意口译员提出的翻译差异，否则他们必须先解决该问题，我们才能依照郭先生的个人口译员来确定郭先生所说的话。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n我不接受这一点。\n\n萨诺夫先生：\n没关系。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n那可以是你的立场。\n\n萨诺夫先生：\n好的。立场必须是，翻译员必须与口译员就郭先生所说的内容达成一致，记录才能准确。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n我——我理解你的立场。\n\n法院指定口译员：\n那么，Holley，如果我遗漏了任何内容，而他的个人口译员想补充我遗漏的任何内容、某些细节信息，她是否可以补充；如果我同意——你知道——我遗漏了什么或者他说了什么，也许我遗漏了某些细节信息和一些——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我认为今天较好的做法——\n\n法院指定口译员：\n可以。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——为了得到清晰的翻译和清晰的记录——\n\n法院指定口译员：\n好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——是由你，杰夫，翻译——\n\n法院指定口译员：\n嗯。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——我的问题，并翻译郭先生的回答。\n\n法院指定口译员：\n好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n如果郭先生根据你的翻译认为你没有正确翻译，那么他可以再次作证，你也可以再试一次。但我希望限制翻译员之间以及与郭先生个人翻译员之间的互动，以便我们有一份正式记录：由我提出问题，问题得到正式翻译，郭先生作出回答，回答也得到正式翻译。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n但是，Holley，问题在于，证人不知道杰夫的英文转述实际上是否准确。你不能把这留给证人。这就是我们有核对口译员的原因。如果他会说英语，我们就不需要任何口译员了。他做不到这一点。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我认为，实际上，郭先生会足够多的英语，能够知道自己是否回答了问题。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n不，他不会。我反对。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n嗯，我——我认为，根据我个人的经验，这就是我所看到的情况。话虽如此，我们会尽力而为——\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n我同意。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——然后看看情况如何发展。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n好的？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23\n第22页 登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）—2022年4月6日 21\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问：那么，回到问答。郭先生，您是否拥有 Genever Holdings Corporation（吉尼弗控股公司）的权益？\n\n答：我只是有——实际上，我没有，但我只是持有——我只是代表我的家人持有一些权益。\n\n问：除您之外，是否有人获授权代表 Genever Holdings Corporation 行事？\n\n答：我的儿子。\n\n问：是否有文件记载您在 Genever Holdings Corporation 中的所有权权益，不论该权益为何？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n反对。你——你可以回答。\n\n证人：\n没有。\n\n私人口译员：\nHolley 女士，我能否——首先，上一次——当他在说——指示证人其证词应当如何作答时，我认为口译员——官方口译员没有翻译你的指示。他是在告诉证人他应当做什么，而不是翻译你所说的话。\n\n私人口译员：\n然后，现在证人说，他两次向口译员询问——你谈论的是所有权，你谈论的是所有权权益。他现在两次使用了这些词，最后，杰夫先生说，是的。然后，他回答没有，但这段互动没有被翻译。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n杰夫先生，你能翻译吗？\n\n法院指定口译员：\n我不知道她刚才说了什么。我不知道。我没有听懂她在说什么。\n\n私人口译员：\n我的意思是，每一个词都应当翻译。证人说的每一个词都应当翻译。Holley 女士的话也应当翻译，对吗？\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n对。\n\n私人口译员：\n对。但他没有——翻译 Holley 女士的——而且你没有翻译郭先生所说的一切。\n\n法院指定口译员：\n好的。也许——也许我们应该让她来翻译。我将退出。我不知道——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我将——\n\n法院指定口译员：\n——我不熟悉——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——我将把此事暂停片刻。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23 登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10 第24页\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）—2022年4月6日\n\n法院指定口译员：\n可以，可以，可以。\n\n（休庭记录之外）\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。短暂休息后，我们恢复庭审记录。郭先生，您仍在宣誓之下。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问：郭先生，您今天随身携带任何美国货币吗？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：您提交破产案件时，您是否持有任何美国货币？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您是否拥有任何外币？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您是否拥有任何数字货币？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您在美国是否拥有任何种类的金融账户？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您在美国境外是否拥有任何种类的金融账户？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：在3月21日，您作证称您没有\n\n没有工作，也没有收入来源。谁支付您的家庭开支？\n\n答：有时是我儿子，有时是我妻子，或者有时是我的其他家庭成员。\n\n问：您是否可以使用任何信用卡？\n\n答：不可以。\n\n问：您是否可以使用与银行账户绑定的任何借记卡？\n\n答：不可以。\n\n问：您如何支付杂货费用？\n\n答：我儿子、我妻子、我家庭成员的公司支付。\n\n问：您儿子住在哪里？\n\n答：伦敦。\n\n问：您儿子如何向您汇款？\n\n答：他在纽约有一家公司的家族办公室。\n\n问：该家族办公室是否给您钱？\n\n答：他们支付上述开支。\n\n问：“家族办公室”一词是什么意思？\n\nBALDIGA律师（巴尔迪加律师）：异议。您可以回答。\n\n法庭官方口译员：我可以请求——请他重复一遍吗？\n\nCLAIBORN女士（克莱伯恩女士）：可以。\n\n法庭官方口译员：好的。您可以——\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日，第134页之\n\n——\n\nBALDIGA律师：对。他还必须向证人翻译我所说的话。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：您还什么都没说，而他要请证人重复其回答，然后他会翻译，之后我们可以进行您想进行的任何讨论。\n\n私人口译员：律师提出了异议。口译员没有翻译该异议。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：我很乐意重复该问题，但如果人们在基本问题上不断打断，今天我们无法以有意义的方式取得任何进展。\n\nBALDIGA律师：不，我没有打断，但是——\n\nCLAIBORN女士：那我再试一次。\n\nBALDIGA律师：好的。但请等一下。如果我提出异议，或者我说任何其他内容，那都必须被翻译。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：您没有留出翻译的时间。那么，Jeff先生（杰夫先生），您能否翻译刚才发生的那段交谈？\n\n法庭官方口译员：好的。我不知道。打断实在太多了。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22\n提交日期 03/27/23\n登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\nCLAIBORN女士：对。\n\n法庭官方口译员：Holley（霍利），我不能——不能继续这样做。我太分心了，我不知道。只是让证人简单地重复一下，然后——\n\nCLAIBORN女士：让我试——\n\n法庭官方口译员：——就把所有这些人牵扯进来了。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：对。让我——\n\n法庭官方口译员：我们无法取得任何进展。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：让我再问一次这个问题。\n\n由CLAIBORN女士讯问：\n\n问：Kwok先生（郭先生），您所称的“家族办公室”是什么意思？\n\nBALDIGA律师：异议。您可以回答。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：Baldiga律师，这个术语在所有文件中都有。您能重复——翻译吗？\n\n法庭官方口译员：不，我无法继续下去。Holley，我得请求退席。对不起。这——这无法——\n\nCLAIBORN女士：请暂停一下。\n\n法庭官方口译员：——这实在太\n\n第134页之\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n多了。\n\n（停止记录）\n\nCLAIBORN女士：短暂休息后，我们恢复记录。Kwok先生，您仍在宣誓之下。在休息期间，我与Baldiga律师交谈，我们同意对问题形式提出的一切异议均予保留。我将回到我的问题。\n\n由CLAIBORN女士讯问：\n\n问：休息前未完成的问题是，您所称的“家族办公室”是什么意思？\n\n答：他们代表我的大家庭。这是一家由我儿子、我女儿、我妻子组成的公司，也是一家代表我家庭进行投资的公司。\n\n问：该公司的名称是什么？\n\n答：Golden Spring Europe（欧洲金泉）。\n\n问：您是指Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）吗？\n\n答：名称大致如此。\n\n问：谁支付您所吃餐食的费用？\n\n答：有时是我妻子的公司，有时是我的家族办公室、我儿子的公司。\n\n问：Kwok先生，当您使用“家族办公室”一词时，您是否指称名为Golden Spring New York Limited（纽约金泉有限公司）的公司？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22\n提交日期 03/27/23\n登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n法庭官方口译员：该公司的名称是什么？我可以——您能重复一遍吗？\n\nCLAIBORN女士：名称是Golden Spring New York Limited（纽约金泉有限公司）。\n\n证人：是。\n\n由CLAIBORN女士讯问：\n\n问：在您的破产案件中，您提交了一份涵盖2月份开支的报告。\n\n法庭官方口译员：我可以再重复一遍吗？\n\nCLAIBORN女士：也许我再试一次。\n\n法庭官方口译员：谢谢。\n\n由CLAIBORN女士讯问：\n\n问：Kwok先生，您提交了一份涵盖2022年2月份的月度经营报告，该报告显示您支出了约\\$160,000。\n\nBALDIGA律师：异议。我提出异议。\n\n由CLAIBORN女士讯问：\n\n问：谁为\\$160,000的支付款项提供资金？\n\n答：一部分来自Golden Spring家族办公室和该公司，一部分由我妻子和我妻子的公司支付。\n\n问：您妻子公司的名称是什么？\n\n答：Greenwich（格林尼治），在康涅狄格州。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22\n提交日期 03/27/23\n登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问：您是指该公司吗？\n\n答：是，该公司的名称。\n\n问：您妻子的公司Greenwich（格林尼治）支付哪些开支？\n\n答：主要是食物，因为我住在我妻子的房子里。我们分担清洁费用、开支，因为——还有花园维护费用。\n\n身份不明的发言人：好的。我们能否暂时休息一下，以便我与我的共同律师交谈？或者与我的合伙人交谈。\n\nBALDIGA律师：不，我们就等着。\n\n由CLAIBORN女士讯问：\n\n问：您妻子的公司Greenwich（格林尼治）从哪里获得资金？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：您妻子的公司Greenwich（格林尼治）是否支付任何专业费用？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：您的妻子是否是实际付款的人？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：您的妻子是否有支票账户？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：您的妻子是否有借记卡？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23\n登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问：当您与妻子在餐馆用餐时，谁支付账单？\n\n答：我从未与妻子去过餐馆。\n\n问：从来没有？\n\n答：我认为我被这些人追赶，所以我从未去过。我认为我——您知道，我认为我被这些人追赶。\n\n问：您的妻子购买杂货吗？\n\n答：有时。\n\n问：她如何支付？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：为什么Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）支付您的一些个人开支？\n\n答：因为我是家庭成员之一，而且我儿子非常成功，他非常爱我。\n\n问：还有其他原因吗？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：Golden Spring支付您的哪些个人生活开支？\n\n答：因我被后面的那些人追赶而产生的安保开支，以及交通、衣物和一些生活用品。\n\n问：Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）中是谁——\n\nCLAIBORN女士：等一下。我要\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22\n提交日期 03/27/23\n登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问一个完整的问题。\n\n由CLAIBORN女士讯问：\n\n问：那么，Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）中是谁授权支付您的个人生活开支？\n\n答：我儿子。\n\n问：请说明您儿子如何授权这些付款。\n\n答：我通常与Golden Spring（金泉）公司的董事和首席执行官沟通。\n\n私人口译员：（无法辨认）董事，不是经理。\n\n法庭官方口译员：您能——好的。董事，不是经理。\n\nBALDIGA律师：谢谢。\n\n由CLAIBORN女士讯问：\n\n问：Kwok先生，您刚才提到的董事或经理是谁？\n\n答：Wang Yanping（王艳萍）。\n\n问：Ping女士是否为Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）的高级管理人员？\n\n答：她是一位女士。她是女性。\n\n问：Ping女士是否为Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）的公司高级管理人员？\n\n答：是。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23\n登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问：她的职务是什么？\n\n答：她是高级管理人员或董事。\n\n问：她有职务头衔吗？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：Kwok先生，您现在是否为Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）的公司高级管理人员？\n\n答：现在？\n\n问：是。\n\n答：否。\n\n问：Kwok先生，您过去是否曾担任Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）的公司高级管理人员？\n\n答：该公司于2015年成立时，我似乎持有一个职务。我忘了当时是什么职务。\n\n问：Kwok先生，您在Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）中是否拥有任何权益？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：过去，您是否曾在Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）中拥有任何形式的所有权权益？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：您是否参与了Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）的设立？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：您在Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）的设立中担任何种角色？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23\n第134页之 登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10 第34页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 33\n\n答：顾问，提供意见和建议。\n\n问：您的儿子是否参与了Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）的设立？\n\n答：他是主要负责人。他——他是主要负责人。\n\n问：Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）成立时，谁拥有纽约——Golden New——Golden Spring New York的所有权权益？\n\n答：我儿子。\n\n问：Golden Spring Hong Kong（香港金泉）是否在Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）中拥有任何所有权权益？\n\n答：我不知道权益的细节，而且因为这——这两者合并了，所以被视为同一回事。\n\n问：Golden Spring Hong Kong（香港金泉）是否是与Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）不同的公司？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：谁拥有Golden Spring Hong Kong（香港金泉）？\n\n答：我儿子。\n\n问：2015年Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）成立时，谁拥有Golden Spring Hong Kong（香港金泉）？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：您是否为Golden Spring Hong Kong（香港金泉）的公司高级管理人员？\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22\n提交日期 03/27/23\n登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问：您是否曾担任Golden Spring Hong Kong（香港金泉）的公司高级管理人员？\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n问：您在Golden Spring Hong Kong（香港金泉）中是否拥有任何所有权权益？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：您过去是否曾在Golden Spring Hong Kong（香港金泉）中拥有所有权权益？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）从事何种业务？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）如何产生收入？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n私人口译员：Holley女士，我不知道这——他所说的（无法辨认）是“Golden Spring New York如何产生收入”，而不是“Golden Spring New York如何赚钱”，对吗？\n\nCLAIBORN女士：那基本上就是我的问题。\n\n私人口译员：对，所以口译员不应当——以Golden Spring New York——Golden\n\n第134页之\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\nSpring New York如何向——向——向Kwok先生赚钱的方式来翻译。\n\n法庭官方口译员：产生钱，对。产生收入，产生钱。\n\n私人口译员：不，但您说的是——\n\nCLAIBORN女士：我很乐意具体地问。\n\n由CLAIBORN女士讯问：\n\n问：Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）如何赚钱？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：2015年，您是否参与Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）的业务？\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n问：您是否曾向Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）赠与金钱？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：您是否曾向Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）提供任何金钱？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：您是否曾向Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）转让任何种类的财产？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：您是否曾以任何方式向Golden Spring New\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23\n登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 36\n\nYork提供资金？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：您是否曾向Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）出借金钱？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：您是否曾将自己的任何资金投资于Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：Yanping Wang（王艳萍）担任何种公司职务？\n\n答：高级管理人员和董事。\n\n问：Yanping Wang是否为Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）的总裁？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）是否还有其他公司高级管理人员？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：他们是谁？\n\n答：我不太清楚他们的姓名。\n\n问：请告诉我您记得的内容。\n\n答：什么——我不太清楚他们的姓名，而且——因为我甚至不记得律师的姓名。我不想误导您，Holley。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 录入于 03/27/23 14:12:10 第 38 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n1 问 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）有多少名管理人员？\n2 \n3 答 我不记得了。哦，我不知道。\n4 对不起。我不知道。\n5 问 Golden Spring New York 有任何董事吗？\n6 \n7 答 Yanping Wang（王燕平）。\n8 问 Wang 女士是 Golden Spring New York 唯一的董事吗？\n9 \n10 答 我不知道。\n11 问 Golden Spring New York 从何处取得用于支付您个人开支的资金？\n12 \n13 答 我不知道。\n14 问 Golden Spring New York 有任何雇员吗？\n15 \n16 答 有。\n17 问 多少名？\n18 答 我不知道。\n19 问 您目前是否以任何方式参与 Golden Spring New York 的业务？\n20 \n21 答 否。\n22 问 Golden Spring New York 拥有什么？\n23 答 我不知道。\n24 问 Golden Spring New York 愿意向您出借 $8 million。这 $8 million 的来源是哪里？\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 录入于 03/27/23 14:12:10 第 39 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n1 $8 million 从哪里来？\n2 答 我不知道。\n3 问 是您要求 Golden Spring New York 向您出借 $8 million 的吗？\n4 \n5 答 不是。\n6 问 是谁要求 Golden Spring New York 向您出借 $8 million？\n7 \n8 答 我的律师。\n9 问 哪位律师？\n10 答 在场的 Aaron Mitchell（艾伦·米切尔）。\n11 问 您指的是 Aaron Mitchell 吗？\n12 答 现在我想起他的名字了。\n13 身份不明的发言人：为记录起见，我不确定 Mitchell 先生是否已经登记出庭。如果他将代表债务人在此出席，则他应当登记出庭。\n14 \n15 \n16 \n17 \n18 CLAIBORN 女士（克莱伯恩女士）：我相信我今天早些时候确实宣读了 Mitchell 先生的姓名。\n19 \n20 身份不明的发言人：他尚未提交——\n21 CLAIBORN 女士：他确实签署了——\n22 身份不明的发言人：——本案中的出庭登记。\n23 \n24 CLAIBORN 女士：谢谢。您能翻译一下吗？\n25 \n\n案件 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 录入于 03/27/23 14:12:10 第 40 页，共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 39\n1 法庭口译员：我没有完全听清。我知道距离有些远。我——\n2 \n3 \n4 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n5 问 Golden Spring New York 有任何银行账户吗？\n6 \n7 答 我不知道。\n8 问 您能使用 Golden Spring New York 的财务账户吗？\n9 \n10 答 不能。\n11 问 您是否有权代表 Golden Spring New York 进行金融交易？\n12 \n13 \n14 答 没有。\n15 私人口译员：没有。不，不是这个问题。\n16 \n17 法庭口译员：是什么？\n18 CLAIBORN 女士：我很乐意重复这个问题。\n19 \n20 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n21 问 您是否有权代表 Golden Spring New York 进行金融交易？Kwok 先生，如果您不回答——如果您不理解我的问题——\n22 \n23 \n24 \n25 法庭口译员：他问的是，如果我是在问他是否有权使用——Golden Spring New York 的账户进行交易。您知道的。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 录入于 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 他——如果我是在问他是否有权使用——Golden Spring New York 的账户进行交易。您知道的。\n2 \n3 \n4 CLAIBORN 女士：那不是我的问题。\n5 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n6 问 Kwok 先生，您是否获授权代表 Golden Spring New York 进行任何种类的金融交易？\n7 \n8 \n9 答 没有。\n10 BALDIGA 先生（巴尔迪加先生）：抱歉，口译员可能有意见。\n11 \n12 CLAIBORN 女士：请您翻译一下，可以吗？\n13 \n14 法庭口译员：好的。她说这是交易——金融交易的交易——\n15 \n16 \n17 私人口译员：交易。\n18 法庭口译员：——交易，去——\n19 \n20 私人口译员：不是买卖。\n21 法庭口译员：他说，没有，他没有——我没有获授权进行交易、金融交易。\n22 \n23 \n24 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n25 问 您目前为 Golden Spring New York 做什么，如有的话？\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 录入于 03/27/23 14:12:10 第 42 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 Golden Spring New York？\n2 答 没有。\n3 问 Golden Spring New York 是否资助您儿子的个人生活开支？\n4 \n5 答 我不知道。\n6 问 Golden Spring New York 是否资助您女儿的个人生活开支？\n7 \n8 答 我不知道。\n9 问 您是否欠 Golden Spring New York 任何款项？\n10 \n11 答 是。\n12 问 多少？\n13 答 大约超过 $21 million。\n14 问 您为何欠 Golden Spring New York 超过 $21 million？\n15 \n16 答 因为在过去五年中，我被许多债权人起诉。\n17 \n18 问 Golden Spring New York 是否——\n19 CLAIBORN 女士：我道歉。\n20 法庭口译员：我刚刚请他重复一遍。\n21 \n22 证人：在过去五年中，我被中国共产党追赶。\n23 \n24 法庭口译员：我没有听清。请——我正在请他再重复一遍。\n25 \n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 第 134 页，共\n\n1 遍。\n2 BALDIGA 先生：简短——简短回答。\n3 证人：在过去五年中，我被中国共产党设计的一些案件困住——困住，包括过去的那个案件。我需要——需要支付大量律师费，所以我得到了 Golden Spring New York 的支持。这是我欠 $21 million 的主要原因。\n4 \n5 \n6 \n7 \n8 \n9 \n10 \n11 私人口译员：口译员漏掉了这一点，即律师——律师费。\n12 \n13 法庭口译员：是的，我说了律师费。我说了。难道我没说律师费吗？\n14 \n15 私人口译员：我不这么认为，但既然您这么说了。\n16 \n17 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n18 问 $21 million 中有多少是律师费？\n19 \n20 法庭口译员：您能再重复一遍吗？\n21 \n22 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n23 问 $21 million 中有多少——\n24 法庭口译员：好的。\n25 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 录入于 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 ——是由律师费构成的？\n2 答 我认为其中大部分是律师费。\n3 问 Golden Spring New York 为什么支付您的律师费？\n4 \n5 答 因为 Golden Spring New York 是我儿子和我家人的公司，他们非常爱我。他们希望——他们希望我活下去，不被我身后的人杀害。\n6 \n7 \n8 \n9 问 您与 Golden Spring New York 之间有任何书面协议吗？\n10 \n11 答 有。\n12 问 什么法律——抱歉。您与 Golden Spring New York 有哪些书面协议？\n13 \n14 答 是借款——借钱协议。\n15 \n16 问 您何时订立该借款协议？\n17 \n18 答 几年前。我知道——我不知道大概时间。\n19 \n20 私人口译员：我不记得。\n21 CLAIBORN 女士：什么——\n22 法庭口译员：什么——是的，我不记得时间。\n23 \n24 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n25 问 您与 Golden Spring New York 订立的法律协议的条款是什么——\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 录入于 03/27/23 14:12:10 第 45 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n1 抱歉。让我重新表述。您与 Golden Spring New York 之间书面协议的条款是什么？\n2 \n3 \n4 答 我不记得。\n5 身份不明的发言人：抱歉。您能重复英文吗？\n6 \n7 CLAIBORN 女士：请继续说——重复。\n8 \n9 法庭口译员：我不记得。\n10 \n11 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n12 问 根据您与 Golden Spring New York 之间的该书面协议，您是否有义务偿还全部款项？\n13 \n14 \n15 答 是。\n16 BALDIGA 先生：问题还有后半部分。\n17 \n18 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n19 问 即 Golden Spring 代表您支付给律师的款项。\n20 \n21 答 是。\n22 私人口译员：口译中仅有——存在差异。例如，口译员没有翻译“根据该协议，您是否有义务将全部——”\n23 \n24 \n25 \n\n案件 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 录入于 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 ——偿还全部款项”。全部款项，即，您知道——\n2 \n3 BALDIGA 先生：好的。\n4 私人口译员：——花在律师身上的全部款项。\n5 \n6 BALDIGA 先生：也许 Holley 可以澄清这一点。\n7 \n8 私人口译员：是的。\n9 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n10 问 我要问一个很长的问题。我要把它分成几个部分。\n11 \n12 Kwok 先生，您是否有义务向 Golden Spring New York 偿还 Golden Spring New York 代表您支付给律师的全部款项？\n13 \n14 \n15 \n16 答 是。\n17 问 该与 Golden Spring New York 的协议是否为书面协议？\n18 \n19 答 是。\n20 问 这是否就是您几分钟前提到的同一份书面协议？\n21 \n22 答 是。\n23 问 您与 Golden Spring New York 是否有不止一份书面协议？\n24 \n25 答 是。\n\n第 134 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n1 问 您与 Golden Spring New York 的其他书面协议是什么？\n2 \n3 答 在过去一周，我与 Logan Cheng（郑洛根）有一个案件。与 Logan Cheng 的和解，该和解所用款项是我从 Golden Spring New York 借来的钱。\n4 \n5 \n6 \n7 问 您与 Golden Spring New York 还有其他书面协议吗？\n8 \n9 答 我不记得。\n10 问 Golden Spring New York 是否与任何在诉讼中代理您的律师订有费用协议？\n11 \n12 \n13 您能——您能回答吗，Kwok 先生？\n14 法庭口译员：任何协议——您能再重复一遍吗？\n15 \n16 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n17 问 Golden Spring New York 是否与任何在诉讼中代理 Kwok 先生的律师订有——任何种类的费用协议？\n18 \n19 \n20 答 我不知道。\n21 问 Kwok 先生，在您于伦敦对 UBS（瑞银）提起的诉讼中，谁代理您？\n22 \n23 答 伦敦的律师——律师事务所。\n24 问 名称是什么？\n25 答 我不完全记得英文名称。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 录入于 03/27/23 14:12:10 第 48 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 英文名称。\n2 问 Golden Spring New York 是否与该伦敦律师订有费用协议？\n3 \n4 答 应该有。\n5 BALDIGA 先生：抱歉。答案是什么？\n6 \n7 法庭口译员：应该有。\n8 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n9 问 您是否知道其是否确实有——有费用协议？\n10 \n11 答 我不确定。\n12 问 Golden Spring New York 中授权支付您诉讼开支的人是谁？\n13 \n14 答 我儿子。\n15 问 您儿子是否必须先与其他人交谈，才能为了您的利益使用 Golden Spring New York 的资金？\n16 \n17 \n18 答 是。\n19 问 您儿子需要与谁交谈？\n20 \n21 答 他需要与我的家人交谈，其中包括一百多名家庭成员，因为他们有一个基金。\n22 \n23 \n24 私人口译员：那个——人数是 181。\n25 \n\n案件 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 录入于 03/27/23 14:12:10 第 49 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 第 134 页，共\n\n1 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n2 问 Kwok 先生，如果您儿子想给您 $100，他是否必须向 Golden Spring New York 的某人寻求授权？\n3 \n4 \n5 答 我不知道。\n6 问 当您说您儿子必须与 Golden Spring New York 的某人交谈时，他需要与多少人交谈？\n7 \n8 \n9 答 我不知道具体情况。\n10 问 就 Golden Spring New York 愿意向您出借的 $8 million 而言，您儿子是否必须就该交易取得 Golden Spring New York 其他人员的同意？\n11 \n12 \n13 \n14 答 我不知道。\n15 问 您是否曾去过 Golden Spring New York 在纽约市的办公室？\n16 \n17 答 去过。\n18 问 您多久去一次 Golden Spring New York 在纽约市的办公室？\n19 \n20 答 不——不固定。有时我一个月去那里几次。有时我已经——我已经几个月没有去那里了。\n21 \n22 \n23 问 您最后一次去 Golden Spring New York 办公室是什么时候？\n24 \n25 答 昨天。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 第 134 页，共 录入于 03/27/23 14:12:10 第 50 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 49\n1 问 您为什么去？\n2 答 为了准备今天的会议。\n3 问 您的儿子是否就\n4 该笔 \\$8 million 贷款与 Yanping Wang（王雁平）交谈过？\n5 答 我不知道。\n6 问 您是否就 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）的\n7 \\$8 million 贷款协商过条款？\n8 答 没有。\n9 问 代表您协商该笔 \\$8\n10 million 贷款的人是谁？\n11 答 我的律师。\n12 问 哪位律师？\n13 答 Aaron Mitchell（阿伦·米切尔）。\n14 问 律师 Aaron Mitchell 在 Golden Spring New York\n15 与谁协商？\n16 官方口译员： 您能重复\n17 一下吗？\n18 克莱本女士发问：\n19 问 律师 Aaron Mitchell 在 Golden Spring New York\n20 与谁协商？\n21 答 我不知道。我的儿子。\n22 问 您是否于 February 2022 从\n23 Lamp Capital, LLC（兰普资本有限责任公司）借入 \\$1 million？\n24 答 是。\n25 问 该笔来自 Lamp Capital, LLC 的贷款是否以\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23 Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 Page 51\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 50\n\n1 书面形式作出？\n2 答 没有。\n3 问 来自\n4 Lamp Capital 的贷款条款是什么？\n5 答 我不知道具体情况。\n6 问 Lamp Capital, LLC 的成员是谁？\n7 答 我的儿子。\n8 问 Lamp\n9 Capital, LLC 是否还有其他成员？\n10 答 我不知道。\n11 问 Lamp\n12 Capital, LLC 的管理成员是谁？\n13 答 我不知道。\n14 问 Lamp Capital 中授权\n15 该笔贷款的人是谁？\n16 答 我的儿子。\n17 问 Lamp Capital, LLC 的资产是什么？\n18 答 我不知道。\n19 问 Lamp Capital 拥有什么？\n20 答 我不知道。\n21 问 您是否曾以任何\n22 方式向 Lamp Capital 提供资金？\n23 答 没有。\n24 问 您是否曾向 Lamp\n25 Capital, LLC 投资任何资金？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23\nEntered 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 没有。\n2 问 为什么 Lamp Capital 向您出借 \\$1\n3 million，而不是 Golden Spring New York？\n4 答 我不知道。\n5 问 Lamp Capital 向您出借的 \\$1 million\n6 的来源是什么？\n7 答 我不知道。\n8 克莱本女士： 我们为什么不休息五\n9 分钟去洗手间？我们实际上于 12:10\n10 重新开庭。\n11 （休庭）\n12 克莱本女士： 短暂休息后，我们现\n13 恢复庭审记录。\n14 郭先生，您仍在宣誓状态下。\n15 克莱本女士发问：\n16 问 郭先生，您是否参与了\n17 选择在 London（伦敦）代理您诉讼的律师\n18 的过程？\n19 答 是。\n20 问 您在 London 的律师是否要求\n21 预付律师费？\n22 答 是。\n23 问 您是否向您在 London 的律师支付了\n24 预付律师费？\n25 答 是。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23\nEntered 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 多少？\n2 答 300,000 pound。\n3 问 该笔 300,000 pound 的预付律师费\n4 何时支付？\n5 答 大约两年前。\n6 问 谁为该预付律师费提供资金？\n7 答 我的儿子帮助支付了——支付了该笔款项。\n8 问 您的儿子是否支付了全部预付律师费？\n9 答 是。\n10 问 您的儿子是否从其\n11 个人资金中支付该预付律师费？\n12 答 应该来自 England（英国）的公司。\n13 问 支付该预付律师费的公司\n14 名称是什么？\n15 答 我不记得。\n16 问 Golden Spring New York 是否向您在 London 的律师支付了\n17 预付律师费？\n18 答 我不记得细节，因为除\n19 预付律师费以外，还有其他——之后还有\n20 几笔付款。\n21 问 郭先生，如果您想买一双\n22 鞋，您会如何支付一双鞋的钱？\n23 答 我会要求 Golden Spring New York\n24 为其付款。\n25 问 该过程将如何进行？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23\nof 134 Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 Page 54\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 53\n1 答 我会与董事和 E Wa\n2 Wang（王娥华，按发音）交谈，并请她联系——与我的儿子交谈，\n3 并支付鞋款。\n4 问 鞋业公司如何收到钱？\n5 鞋店。\n6 答 我不知道。通常由 E Wa Wang 进行\n7 沟通，因为我的英语能力不足以\n8 沟通。\n9 问 如果您去了商店，试穿了鞋子，\n10 并想把鞋从商店带回家，您会\n11 如何支付鞋款？\n12 答 近几年我基本上从未\n13 买过一双鞋。\n14 问 您最后一次支付的东西是什么？\n15 答 最近，我没有去买任何东西。\n16 巴尔迪加先生： 抱歉。您能重复\n17 一下吗？\n18 官方口译员： 最近，我\n19 没有去买任何东西。\n20 克莱本女士发问：\n21 问 我的问题不是最近。我的问题\n22 是，您最后购买的东西是什么？\n23 答 我不记得。\n24 问 您是否曾在餐馆用餐？\n25 答 近几年，没有。\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n1 问 在 COVID 19 之前，您是否在\n2 餐馆用餐？\n3 答 非常少，因为我害怕身后的人\n4 杀害我，因为我一直处于被\n5 追赶的过程中。\n6 问 您在餐馆用餐时，是否由您\n7 支付账单？\n8 答 我没有钱支付，因此我\n9 不去那里。\n10 问 郭先生，如果您想买一杯\n11 咖啡，您会如何支付？\n12 答 我从未买过一杯咖啡。我——\n13 我害怕身后的人会在\n14 咖啡中给我下毒。\n15 问 郭先生，如果您想买水，\n16 您在外面并想买水，您会\n17 如何支付？\n18 答 嗯，自 2107 起，我不——我没有在\n19 外面出去买水。\n20 私人口译员： 细微含义上存在\n21 无法辨识的差异。\n22 官方口译员： 您能——您能\n23 重复一下吗——您能重复——\n24 证人： 自 2017 起，我从未\n25 出门、四处走动，然后购买水或咖啡。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23\nEntered 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 克莱本女士发问：\n2 问 郭先生，您是否在任何\n3 共同基金中拥有任何权益？\n4 答 没有。\n5 问 您是否拥有任何债券？\n6 答 没有。\n7 问 您是否拥有任何公司的任何\n8 公开交易股票？\n9 答 没有。\n10 问 您是否拥有任何汽车？\n11 答 没有。\n12 问 您是否可使用任何汽车？\n13 答 是。\n14 问 您可使用谁的汽车？\n15 答 我儿子的和 Golden Springs 的。\n16 问 Golden Spring 是否向您提供一辆\n17 供您使用的汽车？\n18 答 是。\n19 问 那是什么类型的汽车？\n20 答 Maybach（迈巴赫）。\n21 私人口译员： Maybach。\n22 官方口译员： 嗯？\n23 私人口译员： Maybach。\n24 官方口译员： Maybach？好的。\n25 我不知道它的名称。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23\nEntered 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 证人： Maybach。\n2 克莱本女士发问：\n3 问 郭先生，您有驾驶执照吗？\n4 答 我有 Hong Kong（香港）的驾驶执照。\n5 问 您在 United States（美国）开车吗？\n6 答 几乎不开。\n7 问 您开车时，开谁的车？\n8 答 Golden Spring 的。\n9 问 您在 Greenwich（格林尼治）的住所\n10 停放汽车吗？\n11 答 是。\n12 问 那是什么车？\n13 答 Maybach。\n14 问 您拥有任何航空器吗？\n15 答 没有。\n16 问 您曾拥有任何航空器吗？\n17 答 以前有。\n18 问 您何时拥有航空器？\n19 答 大概从 2010 至 2016。\n20 问 您拥有多少架航空器？\n21 答 一架。\n22 问 是什么？\n23 答 Airbus 319（空中客车 319）。319。\n24 问 那架 Airbus 319 怎么了？\n25 答 它被 UBS（瑞银集团）和 Chinese\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23 Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 Page 58\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 57\n\n1 Communist Party（中国共产党）没收了。\n2 问 好的。您拥有任何水上交通工具吗？\n3 答 没有。\n4 问 谁拥有名为 Lady May（梅夫人号）的游艇？\n5 答 我的女儿。\n6 问 您的女儿是否以她\n7 个人名义拥有 Lady May？\n8 答 应该是由一家公司拥有。\n9 问 拥有 Lady May 的公司\n10 名称是什么？\n11 答 我不知道。\n12 问 Lady May 目前在哪里？\n13 答 我不知道。\n14 问 自破产申请以来，您是否\n15 要求您的女儿将 Lady May 返还至 New\n16 York（纽约）？\n17 答 我确实要求过她，并要求她与她的\n18 律师交谈，将该船返还至 New York。\n19 问 您何时进行该次谈话？\n20 答 上个月，开庭日期之后。在\n21 与您会面之后。\n22 问 您的女儿怎么说？\n23 答 她说她会与她的\n24 律师交谈，然后与我的律师交谈。\n25 问 您的女儿是否同意让 Lady\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23 Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 Page 59\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n1 May 返回 New York？\n2 答 她不愿意与我详细\n3 交谈。她想——她想与她的\n4 律师交谈。\n5 问 您的女儿是否对您要求\n6 她将 Lady May 返回 New York 的请求说“不”？\n7 答 没有，他没有——她没有。\n8 私人口译员： 该问题\n9 未被完整口译。\n10 官方口译员： 我知道，但她\n11 ——她已经——他已经回答了，并且——\n12 巴尔迪加先生： 等他讲完。\n13 证人： 没有，他——没有。\n14 克莱本女士发问：\n15 问 郭先生，您是否拥有或在任何\n16 信托中拥有权益？\n17 答 没有。\n18 问 您是否为任何信托的受益人？\n19 答 没有。\n20 问 这是一个很长的问题。郭先生，\n21 就您针对 Baosheng Guo（郭宝胜）的诉讼而言，向您支付的 \\$12,000\n22 支票在哪里？\n23 答 在律师的托管账户中。\n24 问 持有该支票的律师\n25 叫什么名字？\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n1 答 我无法完整说出该律师的名字。\n2 \n3 问 该律师的名字是什么？\n4 答 我不能——我无法读出——\n5 ——发音说出他的名字。\n6 问 持有支票的律师\n7 是否就是在该诉讼中代理您的\n8 同一位律师？\n9 答 应该是。\n10 问 在您的 Schedule A-B 中，您没有披露\n11 该 \\$12,000 支票。为什么？\n12 巴尔迪加先生： 等着问问题。不。\n13 他能口译吗？\n14 克莱本女士发问：\n15 问 您为什么没有披露该 \\$12,000\n16 支票？\n17 答 我的律师认为，由于该款项\n18 不在我的账户中，所以我不被允许——我们\n19 不——我不应披露该款项。\n20 问 好的。郭先生，您有任何专利吗？\n21 答 没有。\n22 问 您有任何版权吗？\n23 答 没有。\n24 问 您有任何形式的\n25 知识产权吗？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23 Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 Page 61\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n1 答 没有。\n\n2 巴尔迪加先生： 抱歉。Holley（霍莉），我不\n3 确定您是否会回到这个问题，但其中\n4 提到了 \\$12,000。\n5 克莱本女士： 我看到了。\n6 巴尔迪加先生： 哦，您说他没有\n7 披露。\n8 克莱本女士： 他没有。该项不在\n9 对 Schedule A-B 问题的答复中。\n10 巴尔迪加先生： 它就在这里。\n11 克莱本女士： 我们可以对其是否已经\n12 披露存在分歧，但我的立场是\n13 其尚未披露。我理解您可能\n14 采取不同立场。\n15 克莱本女士发问：\n16 问 郭先生，您是否拥有一家名为\n17 Ace Decade Holdings Limited（艾斯十年控股有限公司）的公司中的任何权益？\n18 答 是。\n19 问 您对 Ace Decade Holdings Limited 的所有权\n20 权益性质是什么？\n21 答 因此，我拥有该权益，并要求 UBS\n22 返还 \\$500 million。那种权益。\n23 问 您是否为 Ace Decade\n24 Holdings Limited 的唯一合法所有人？\n25 官方口译员： 您是否是\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22\nFiled 03/27/23\nEntered 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 唯一——您能重复该问题吗？\n2 克莱本女士发问：\n3 问 您是否为 Ace\n4 Decades 的唯一合法所有人？\n5 答 我是合法代表所有人。\n6 问 Ace Decade 是否有任何其他所有人？\n7 答 没有。\n8 问 您何时成为 Ace Decade\n9 Holdings Limited 的所有人？\n10 答 2014 年底。\n11 问 这是一个很长的问题。在您于\n12 London 针对 UBS 的诉讼中，您是\n13 个人原告。您作为个人原告提出\n14 主张的依据是什么？\n15 答 因为我是 Ace Decade 的百分之百代表。\n16 \n17 问 在 London 针对 UBS 的诉讼中，\n18 有一项主张称 Ace Decade 向 Dawn State Limited（道恩州有限公司）提供了 \\$500\n19 million。Ace Decade 从何处\n20 获得该 \\$500 million？\n21 答 我从我的家人那里借款。\n22 问 您是否从您的家人那里借钱并\n23 将其交给 Ace Decade？\n24 答 是。\n25 克莱本女士： 我不认为那是——\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）－2022年4月6日\n\n1 让我们重新开始，因为我认为那不是——\n\n2 那是——\n\n3 私人口译员：\n\n是的，我认为\n\n4 那是——\n\n5 克莱伯恩女士（MS. CLAIBORN）：\n\n——那才是问题，\n\n6 因为那并不涉及 Dawn State（曙光州）——\n\n7 私人口译员：\n\n是。\n\n8 克莱伯恩女士：\n\n——所以我将重新\n\n9 开始。\n\n10 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n11 问 你从哪里获得交给 Ace Decade（艾斯十年）的那 500 million 资金？\n\n13 巴尔迪加先生（MR. BALDIGA）：\n\n我不认为他说过他\n\n14 这样做了。我认为他说是他的家人这样做了，但你\n\n15 可以问这个问题，不过我——\n\n16 证人：\n\n来自我的家人。\n\n17 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n18 问 你家中具体是谁给了你\n\n19 资金，而后你又将其交给了 Ace Decade？\n\n20 答 John Way（约翰·韦，音）。\n\n21 问 John Way 是谁？\n\n22 答 我家的一名成员。\n\n23 问 他是你的亲属吗？\n\n24 答 他是我哥哥的表亲，或者——\n\n25 私人口译员：\n\n女婿。\n\n共134页\n\n郭文贵－2022年4月6日\n\n1 官方口译员：\n\n女婿？\n\n2 好的。抱歉。\n\n3 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n4 问 在你的附表 A-B 中，你列有一项针对 Boise Schiller（博伊斯·希勒）可能提出的\n\n5 执业过失索赔。你能否\n\n6 解释一下那是什么？\n\n7 答 他是那个——他是那个\n\n8 在纽约代理我起诉 UBS（瑞银集团）的人。\n\n9 他未经我允许向法院提交了大量强制性文件。\n\n10 他还威胁我的\n\n11 家人。他还在酒后威胁我自己。\n\n12 他给我们造成了大量损失，包括在向——向律师或\n\n13 法官提交任何英中文件之前，\n\n14 没有向我提供翻译文件。\n\n15 这就是我——这就是我们起诉他的原因。\n\n16 问 你是否聘请了律师代理\n\n17 你处理该执业过失诉讼？\n\n18 答 我儿子正在处理\n\n19 这件事。\n\n20 问 为什么你儿子在就\n\n21 你的执业过失索赔与律师沟通？\n\n22 答 因为我需要向他借钱。\n\n23 问 律师是否已经选定？\n\n24 答 尚未。\n\n25 问 郭先生，你是否拥有除 Ace Decade 以外任何\n\n共134页\n\n郭文贵－2022年4月6日\n\n1 公司的权益？\n\n2 答 没有，但——我拥有 Bravo Luck（布拉沃·勒克）、\n\n3 该公寓，仅几个月，拥有其中部分\n\n4 权益。由于该公寓是合作公寓，\n\n5 所以在我——\n\n6 在我们购买公寓后，他们用我的名字购买该公寓，\n\n7 然后我们将股票权益返还了。\n\n8 身份不明的发言人：\n\n抱歉。他肯定\n\n9 说了 30、40 秒。显然说得比这更多。\n\n10 是否有更完整的翻译？\n\n11 官方口译员：\n\n我是否遗漏了\n\n12 什么？\n\n13 克莱伯恩女士：\n\n让我看看能否\n\n14 追问一下。\n\n15 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n16 问 郭先生，你目前是否拥有\n\n17 Bravo Luck 的权益？\n\n18 答 没有。\n\n19 问 郭先生，你是否拥有任何\n\n20 有限责任公司的权益？\n\n21 答 没有。\n\n22 问 郭先生，你是否拥有任何\n\n23 合伙企业的权益？\n\n24 答 我曾拥有一家名为 Orange（橙色）或 Shiny Time（闪耀时光）的飞机公司，但那是在以前，而且\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22\n提交于 03/27/23\n登记于 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\n郭文贵－2022年4月6日\n\n1 现在已不复存在。\n\n2 问 郭先生，你目前是否拥有任何合伙企业的\n\n3 权益？\n\n4 答 没有。\n\n5 问 郭先生，你目前是否拥有任何合资企业的\n\n6 权益？\n\n7 答 没有。\n\n8 问 除 Ace Decade 外，你目前是否拥有\n\n9 任何其他公司的权益？\n\n10 答 没有。我以前只拥有 Orange 和 Shiny\n\n11 Time，但现在没有。\n\n12 问 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）是否对你的任何诉讼\n\n13 享有担保权益？\n\n14 答 我欠他们钱。\n\n15 问 你是否已向 Golden Spring New\n\n16 York 授予你任何资产中的任何权益，即你所拥有的任何\n\n17 东西？\n\n18 答 没有。\n\n19 问 那么，如果你在针对 Golden Spring 的诉讼中\n\n20 胜诉——抱歉。名字错了。那么，如果你在\n\n21 针对 UBS 的诉讼中胜诉，你赢得的任何款项是否\n\n22 必须支付给 Golden Spring？\n\n23 答 是。\n\n24 问 金额是多少？\n\n25 答 此前是 2,200 1 million，或者——\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22\n提交于 03/27/23\n登记于 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\n郭文贵－2022年4月6日\n\n1 私人口译员：\n\n21 million。\n\n2 证人：\n\n21 million。21 million，再加上现在的。\n\n3 可能大约是 300 million。\n\n4 million。或者 30 million。是的。\n\n5 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n6 问 是否有文件规定你收到的任何\n\n7 诉讼胜诉所得需要支付给\n\n8 Golden Spring？\n\n9 答 有。\n\n10 问 该文件的名称是什么？\n\n11 官方口译员：\n\n我要\n\n12 请他重复一遍。\n\n13 我没听到。我刚要求他将其拆开说，但我没有听到\n\n14 什么——\n\n15 证人：\n\n我在 DC 有一个案件。有一家\n\n16 律师事务所代理我办理政治庇护，而该所\n\n17 遭到中国共产党的网络攻击，\n\n18 因此他们——该律师事务所关闭了，并且他们将我的个人\n\n19 信息交给共产党，然后我起诉了\n\n20 他们。该诉讼费用、律师费，来自\n\n21 Golden Spring New York。\n\n22 我请求 50,000——\\$50 million 的索赔。\n\n23 如果我赢得那笔钱，我将把钱\n\n24 返还给 Golden Springs，以偿还他们为支持我的\n\n25 律师费所提供的资金。\n\n共134页\n\n郭文贵－2022年4月6日\n\n1 律师费。\n\n2 私人口译员：\n\n郭先生没有\n\n3 说和解。郭先生只是说，对于一项索赔，而不是\n\n4 和解。\n\n5 官方口译员：\n\n你正在\n\n6 请求 \\$50 million。是的。他为\n\n7 该诉讼请求 \\$50 million，如果他赢——如果他赢得这笔钱，\n\n8 那么他会将钱返还给 Golden\n\n9 Spring New York。\n\n10 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n11 问 我的问题是，你根据哪一份文件\n\n12 向 Golden Spring 偿还你的诉讼\n\n13 款项？\n\n14 答 该文件是我——\n\n15 官方口译员：\n\n你能重复\n\n16 一下吗？\n\n17 证人：\n\n该协议是——就是该\n\n18 协议，我向 Golden Spring\n\n19 New York 借钱起诉该律师事务所。\n\n20 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n21 问 该协议的名称是什么？\n\n22 答 我不记得了。\n\n23 问 它是一份本票吗？\n\n24 答 我不记得了。\n\n25 问 它是一份合同吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23\n登记于 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\n郭文贵－2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 我记不清楚。\n\n2 问 谁起草了该文件？\n\n3 答 律师。\n\n4 问 起草该文件的律师叫什么名字？\n\n5 \n\n6 答 Melissa（梅丽莎）。\n\n7 问 Melissa 的姓氏是什么？\n\n8 答 我不知道。\n\n9 问 律师 Melissa 是否在起草\n\n10 该文件时代理你？\n\n11 答 是。\n\n12 问 在起草该文件时，谁代理 Golden Spring？\n\n13 \n\n14 答 我不知道。\n\n15 问 Golden Spring 是否有律师？\n\n16 答 是。\n\n17 问 你只是记不起那是谁？\n\n18 答 他们有很多律师。\n\n19 问 你根据不止一份书面协议\n\n20 欠 Golden Spring New York 钱吗？\n\n21 答 是。\n\n22 问 有多少份协议？\n\n23 答 大约两三份，或者三四份。我\n\n24 记不清楚。\n\n25 问 是否有人记录你\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 登记于 03/27/23 14:12:10 第70页\n\n郭文贵－2022年4月6日\n\n1 向 Golden Spring New York 借的钱？\n\n2 答 我的律师会记下来。我们会记录\n\n3 下来。\n\n4 问 那名律师叫什么名字？\n\n5 答 Aaron Mitchell（亚伦·米切尔）。\n\n6 问 你说的是 Aaron Mitchell 吗？\n\n7 答 哦，是。\n\n8 问 Aaron Mitchell 如何记录你从 Golden Spring New\n\n9 York 借取的\n\n10 款项？\n\n11 答 具体情况我不知道。\n\n12 问 Golden Spring New York 雇用的任何人是否记录你\n\n13 从 Golden Spring New York 借取的\n\n14 款项？\n\n15 答 我不知道。\n\n16 问 你是否曾看过律师 Aaron Mitchell 出具的\n\n17 显示你欠 Golden Spring New York 多少款项的\n\n18 文件？\n\n19 答 这是我——这是我与我的律师之间的事情，\n\n20 我不应回答。\n\n21 巴尔迪加先生：\n\n我能否——我是说——\n\n22 克莱伯恩女士：\n\n我不认为该问题\n\n23 涉及——\n\n24 巴尔迪加先生：\n\n你可以——\n\n25 克莱伯恩女士：\n\n——享有保密特权的答复。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 登记于 03/27/23 14:12:10 第71页\n\n郭文贵－2022年4月6日 共134页\n\n郭文贵－2022年4月6日\n\n1 巴尔迪加先生：\n\n那——给我一点时间。\n\n2 你可以对最后一个问题回答是或否，所以如果\n\n3 你再次提问，我认为他会回答是或否，\n\n4 然后我们可以一步一步来。\n\n5 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n6 问 你是否曾看过由 Mitchell 律师准备的\n\n7 显示你从 Golden Spring 借了多少\n\n8 钱的文件？\n\n9 巴尔迪加先生：\n\n等等。等等，我的指示\n\n10 需要被翻译。\n\n11 官方口译员：\n\n什么？\n\n12 克莱伯恩女士：\n\n你能否——\n\n13 巴尔迪加先生：\n\n你需要指示——\n\n14 克莱伯恩女士：\n\n请直接说出来，\n\n15 他会重新翻译。\n\n16 巴尔迪加先生：\n\n请告诉证人\n\n17 什么——我正在告诉证人，他只能回答是\n\n18 或否。\n\n19 证人：\n\n是。\n\n20 克莱伯恩女士：\n\n我还有其他问题，但\n\n21 考虑到现在的时间，我认为我们可以\n\n22 短暂休庭，然后重新开庭，并让债权人\n\n23 有机会提问。\n\n24 我建议我们在 1:15 重新开庭。\n\n25 巴尔迪加先生：\n\n这样可以吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22\n提交于 03/27/23\n登记于 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\n郭文贵－2022年4月6日\n\n1 克莱伯恩女士：\n\n可以。谢谢。我们将在\n\n2 1:15 重新开庭。\n\n3 （休庭。）\n\n4 克莱伯恩女士：\n\n录音已\n\n5 恢复。短暂休庭后，我们已重新开庭，\n\n6 郭先生，你仍在宣誓之下。\n\n7 此时，沃尔曼先生（Mr. Wolman）有一些\n\n8 问题要问你，郭先生。\n\n9 沃尔曼先生询问：\n\n10 问 下午好，郭先生。\n\n11 3月21日，我曾问你一些有关此前证言录取的问题，具体是\n\n12 关于你曾援引《美国宪法》\n\n13 第五修正案权利的\n\n14 次数。\n\n15 2021年4月1日，你是否因任何犯罪\n\n16 而受到调查？\n\n17 官方口译员：\n\n4月21日？\n\n18 沃尔曼先生：\n\n2021年4月1日。\n\n19 官方口译员：\n\n先生，你能重复\n\n20 一下该问题吗？\n\n21 问 你是否因任何犯罪而受到调查？\n\n22 答 来自 SET——美国 SET，正在\n\n23 调查 GTV，他们可以与我们的\n\n24 律师沟通。\n\n问 你是指美国证券交易委员会吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 登记于 03/27/23 14:12:10 第73页\n\n郭文贵－2022年4月6日 美国证券交易委员会？答 是。问 他们究竟在调查什么？巴尔迪加先生：异议。我需要问，这是否会披露享有保密特权的信息。你对上一个问题的回答是否会是来自你律师的信息？私人口译员：我能否——官方口译员：她想帮忙。私人口译员：因为他没有——克莱伯恩女士：我认为你们应当再试一次。巴尔迪加先生，也许你可以重复一遍，杰克先生（Mr. Jack），你可以再试一次。官方口译员：你能重复你想说的话吗？巴尔迪加先生：沃尔曼先生问你，你正因何事受到调查。你所知的信息，是否是由你的律师向你提供的？证人：是。巴尔迪加先生：而回答该问题时，你是否必须披露律师告诉你的内容？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 登记于 03/27/23 14:12:10 第74页\n\n郭文贵－2022年4月6日 律师？官方口译员：必须被什么？披露？巴尔迪加先生：你是否必须说出律师告诉你的内容？证人：是。巴尔迪加先生：那么，我指示证人基于律师—当事人保密特权不予回答。沃尔曼先生：那不是律师—当事人信息。巴尔迪加先生：等一下。让它被翻译。沃尔曼先生：从律师处获知、并非专门为提供法律意见或获取信息而进行的沟通的信息，不是享有保密特权的信息。如果你的律师说天空是蓝色的，那不是享有保密特权的沟通。巴尔迪加先生：他在与我争论。没有向你提出问题。沃尔曼先生：巴尔迪加先生，你是否会继续指示你的当事人不当地援引律师—当事人保密特权？巴尔迪加先生：我会就一个问题作出指示\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交于 03/27/23 登记于 03/27/23 14:12:10 第75页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日，按问题逐一进行。WOLMAN先生：对于这个问题，您是否维持该指示？郭先生，您是否拒绝回答我的问题？证人：是。WOLMAN先生：您基于何种理由拒绝回答我的问题？BALDIGA先生：基于律师因律师—当事人特权而作出的指示。证人：因为我不能回答这个问题，因为我与律师之间享有特权。WOLMAN先生询问：问：您是否曾被 Securities and Exchange Commission（美国证券交易委员会）正式指控？答：没有。问：美国证券交易委员会是否已结束对您的调查？BALDIGA先生：我必须再次询问，若您知道，您可以回答是或否。答：没有。问：美国证券交易委员会是否对 GTV（GTV）提出过任何指控？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22\n提交日期 03/27/23\n登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 答\n我不知道。\n2 问\n在过去五年中，您是否曾\n3 接受 U.S. Internal Revenue Service（美国国税局）\n4 审计？\n5 答\n没有。\n6 问\n在过去五年中，您是否曾\n7 接受 New York State（纽约州）税务机关的\n8 审计？\n9 答\n没有。\n10 问\n您何时成为\n11 Connecticut（康涅狄格州）居民？\n具体日期为何？\n12 答\n大约是在 2020年3月初。\n13 问\n为明确起见，您是说您在 2020年3月是\n14 康涅狄格州居民？\n15 答\n是。\n16 问\n那么，为何在 Cheng先生，即我当事人，\n17 针对您提起的诉讼中，您在一份宣誓\n18 陈述中签字，表明您是\n19 Sherry Netherlands Hotel（谢里-内德兰酒店）的居民？\n20 官方口译员：\n您能重复\n21 一下吗，律师？\n22 问\n如果您在 2020年3月是\n23 康涅狄格州居民，您在 Cheng先生针对您提起的诉讼中签署了一份宣誓陈述，\n24 其中称您居住于\n25 谢里-内德兰酒店。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23 登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10 第77页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n1 答\n我并非百分之百住在康涅狄格州，\n2 但有时我也住在纽约。\n3 问\n您从何时起有超过 50% 的时间住在康涅狄格州？\n4 \n5 答\n自 2020年3月起。\n6 问\n您声称有一些资产被\n7 中国没收，对吗？\n8 答\n那不是我的。那是我家人的。\n那是\n9 我家人的。\n10 问\n您是否曾有资产被中国没收？\n11 答\n您是指以我的名义持有的吗？\n12 问\n是。\n13 答\n没有。\n14 问\n好的。\n2010年，您的\n15 个人净资产是多少？\n16 答\n没有。\n17 问\n那不是一个是或否的问题。\n18 官方口译员：\n我可以重复\n19 一下您的问题吗？\n20 WOLMAN先生：\n可以。\n21 问\n2010年，您的个人净资产是多少？\n22 答\n我没有任何财产。\n23 问\n您是否曾以您本人名义拥有过\n24 超过 $1 million 的财产；其中包括您在一家公司拥有权益，而该权益，\n\n第7页，共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日，因此为您的工作作出贡献？答：在 2000年之前，有。问：好的。您在 1999年的净资产是多少？答：我从未作过详细计算。问：您估计是多少？答：大约 100 million。问：那价值 $100 million 的资产后来发生了什么？答：因为在 2000年我取得了香港护照，而在中国，他们不允许我拥有任何财产、资产。问：您是否已放弃对您在 1999年拥有的任何资产的一切主张？答：是。问：您为何放弃了您的主张？官方口译员：放弃什么？问：您对那些资产的主张？答：因为我不被允许在中国拥有任何资产。问：如果中国改变其政策，您是否有任何权利或能力取回那些资产？BALDIGA先生：异议。若您知道，您可以回答。答：我不知道。问：您在 1999年最大的资产是什么？\n\n第7页，共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n1 答\n有一家酒店的资产，即在中国一家酒店的\n2 股权权益。\n3 问\n现在由谁持有该权益？\n4 答\nChinese Communist Party（中国共产党）。\n5 问\n该权益是以党的名义持有的吗？\n6 答\n中国只有一个专制政府，\n7 即党，而我们家族的资产被他们夺走——\n8 被他们没收了。\n9 问\n您的儿子如何变得足够富有，以资助 Golden Spring（金泉）和 Lamp Capital（蓝普资本）？\n10 \n11 答\n因为他很早就开始进行\n12 投资，也将品牌引入中国。\n13 问\n他的投资资金从何而来？\n14 \n15 答\n我不知道。\n16 问\nClaiborn女士曾就与金泉的协议询问您，\n17 而您无法确认金泉的律师是谁。\n您记得\n18 此事吗？\n19 \n20 答\n是的。\n21 问\n我想尝试唤起——可能请您\n22 唤起您的记忆：那位律师是否名叫\n23 Daniel？\n24 官方口译员：\n他是在问\n25 Daniel？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22\n提交日期 03/27/23\n登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 问\n是，Daniel Pedolsky（丹尼尔·佩多尔斯基）。\n2 答\n是，可能是；他曾是金泉的\n3 律师，也是我的个人律师。\n4 问\n您是否与 Pedolsky先生签署过利益冲突\n5 豁免书？\n6 官方口译员：\n您能重复\n7 一下吗？\n8 问\n您是否与律师 Daniel Pedolsky 签署过利益冲突\n9 豁免书？\n10 答\n我不记得。\n11 问\n您提到过与金泉之间有两三份——或三四份\n12 协议。您能确认\n13 其中每一份协议吗？\n14 答\n我不确定。\n15 问\n您能说明每份协议的\n16 目的是什么吗？\n17 答\n来自金泉的那笔贷款，是为了与 Logan Cheng（程龙）达成\n18 和解。\n19 问\n您是否曾为支付律师费用以起诉程龙而取得贷款？\n20 \n21 答\n我不记得。\n22 问\n除与 Cheng先生有关的协议外，其他协议是什么？\n23 \n24 答\n来自 D.C.——来自 D.C. 的律师事务所收取\n25 （听不清）\n我不记得该\n\n第7页，共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日姓名。WOLMAN先生：好的。谢谢，我这次必须离开了，但谢谢。我会尝试拨入。CLAIBORN女士：谢谢。我能否请在线上的任何人静音，因为你们能听到打字声。好的。还有谁想提问？Harbach先生。请吧，Harbach先生。HARBACH先生：谢谢。为记录在案，我是 David Harbach（大卫·哈巴赫），来自 O'Melveny and Meyers（奥美律师事务所），我代表 PAACS（PAACS）。HARBACH先生询问：问：Kwok先生，我想根据 Claiborn女士今天向您提出的问题，询问几个澄清性问题。今天早些时候，她问您是否拥有任何外币，您回答没有。她还问您是否拥有任何数字货币，您回答没有。我的问题是，您是否曾代表任何实体下令或指示购买外币或数字货币？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23 登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10 第82页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n1 官方口译员：\n您能重复\n2 一下吗？\n3 HARBACH先生：\n当然。\n4 问\n我的问题是，您是否曾代表任何实体下令或\n5 指示购买任何外币或任何\n6 数字货币？\n7 答\n您所说的“指示”是什么意思？\n8 问\n您是否曾指示任何人购买\n9 外币或数字货币？\n10 答\n没有。\n11 问\nClaiborn女士曾就使用信用卡和借记卡的权限\n12 向您提出几个问题。我想确保\n13 我们清楚理解您的回答，因为她问您的不是\n14 您是否有任何信用卡，而是您是否有使用信用卡的权限。\n15 我想确保您\n16 理解其中的区别。\n17 \n18 官方口译员：他只是问\n19 您为什么要代表 Holley女士所问的\n20 问题。\n21 HARBACH先生：\n先生，我只是试图提醒\n22 您她今天早些时候向您提出的一个问题。\n23 私人口译员：\n我不\n24 理解这个问题。\n25 BALDIGA先生：\nBaldiga先生是对的。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23 登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10 第83页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n1 目前没有待回答的问题。\n2 问\n问题是，您是否理解拥有信用卡与有权使用信用卡之间的\n3 区别？\n4 \n5 答\n我相信我没有。\n6 问\n您不理解这种区别？\n7 答\n我不太了解。\n8 问\n好的。\n那么，让我给您举个例子。\n9 我们谈谈 Maybach（迈巴赫）。\n10 我相信您今天向我们表示，\n11 您有权使用迈巴赫作为\n12 交通工具。\n这正确吗？\n13 答\n是。\n14 问\n但我相信您的立场也是，您并不拥有这辆\n15 迈巴赫。\n对吗？\n16 答\n是。\n17 问\n换言之，您的立场是这辆\n18 迈巴赫不是您的，对吗？\n19 答\n是。\n20 问\n好的。\n所以我用这个例子说明\n21 拥有某物与有权使用某物之间的\n22 区别。\n这能帮助您吗？\n您\n23 理解这种区别吗？\n24 答\n现在我理解您了。\n25 问\n好的。\n谢谢。\n那么，回到关于\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日，第7页，共134页\n\n信用卡和借记卡的问题。无论它们是否属于您，您是否有权使用任何信用卡或借记卡？答：我不理解他所说的区别，即“使用权限”是指我自己使用，还是让其他人为我使用。问：那么，我们逐一讨论。先从您自己使用开始。您的任何家庭成员是否曾向您提供信用卡或信用卡号码供您自己使用？答：我从未使用过。问：您提到的另一个例子，可能是您的家庭成员代表您使用信用卡。这是否曾发生过？答：您所说的代表我使用是什么意思？问：我是在问，据您所知，您的任何家庭成员是否曾使用信用卡或借记卡为您购买物品？答：我的儿子、我的女儿、我的妻子。他们都有信用卡为我购买物品。私人口译员：证人没有说“使用信用卡为我购买物品”。证人说的是，我的儿子、我的妻子为我购买物品。\n\n第7页，共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n1 官方口译员：\n是的，他们使用\n2 他们的卡，他们两人——他们所有人都有。\n他们\n3 都有卡。这是他说的。\n4 （重复口译）\n5 官方口译员：\n是的，我译对了。\n6 \n7 证人：\n因此，我的妻子、儿子\n8 和女儿有他们自己的卡，其他\n9 家庭成员也使用他们的卡为我购买物品。\n10 问 这是否曾是依您的指示？\n11 答 没有。\n12 问 从未有过。\n13 答 没有。\n14 问 这是否依您的请求？\n15 答 没有。\n16 问 Yan Ping Wang（王艳萍）是否就是 Yvette Wang（王雪红）？\n17 答 是。\n18 问 此前 Claiborn女士曾就\n19 Golden Spring Hong Kong（香港金泉）向您提问。\n20 您告诉她，您的儿子拥有该公司。\n您\n21 记得吗？\n22 答 是。\n23 问 我的问题是，自何时起您的\n24 儿子拥有香港金泉？\n25 答 我不知道。\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 问：除您的儿子外，是否还有其他任何人曾拥有香港金泉的权益？答：我不记得。问：您还说，您不记得自己是否曾担任香港金泉的公司高管？官方口译员：您能重复一下那个问题吗？问：您还说，您不记得自己是否曾担任香港金泉的公司高管？这是否意味着您有可能曾担任过，只是您不确定？答：我不记得。问：Claiborn女士以几种不同方式问您，您是否知道 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）如何获得资金或赚钱。自何时起金泉开始支付您的个人生活开支？答：2015年。问：所以大约六七年？答：自 2015年起，当时有一个名叫 Bruno Wu（吴征）的人，来自中国大陆，他给我的家人、我的儿子、女儿和妻子打电话，因此从那时起，我开始花来自纽约金泉的钱。案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23 登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10 第86页，共134页\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22\n提交日期 03/27/23\n登记日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n私人口译员：\n我认为证人不是这么说的。\n\n官方口译员：\n什么？\n\n私人口译员：\n我认为证人没有这么说。\n\n证人：\n不包括他们抓到的那个儿子，我的妻子、女儿和许多家人都被抓了，但没有抓我的儿子。\n\n问：\n因此，大约六、七年以来，Golden Spring（金泉）一直在支付你的个人开支。对吗？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n在那六、七年期间，你从未与任何家人讨论过这笔钱来自哪里吗？\n\n答：\n因为我的许多家人被——被你的当事人Bruno Wu（吴征）逮捕了，所以我没有联系。我无法与他们联系。\n\n私人口译员：\n不完全是。PAACS（PAACS）的合伙人——律师所代理的那位合伙人，PAACS的合伙人——\n\n官方口译员：\n我不知道。他没有提到任何关于PAACS的事情。\n\n证人：\n所以，是代理当事人Bruno Wu（吴征）的另一位律师逮捕了你的许多家人。你当事人过去的一名合伙人，合伙人之一，（听不清）Bruno Wu，并逮捕了你的许多家人，所以你无法与他们联系。\n\n第134页之\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n问：\n自2015年以来，你是否曾与你的女儿、妻子或儿子联系？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n在你与这三人中任何一人联系的任何时候，你是否曾询问他们Golden Spring的钱来自哪里？\n\n答：\n是，我问过。\n\n问：\n你问了谁？\n\n答：\n我问了他们三人。\n\n问：\n他们怎么说？\n\n答：\n他们告诉我，因为我正处于被追捕的处境，所以不要问我们自己的财务信息。不要向我问任何事情，我们会帮助你——我们会尽我们所能帮助你。\n\n问：\n那是什么时候？\n\n答：\n2017年以后。\n\n问：\n2017年之后多久？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n案号22-50073 文件1604-22\n提交日期03/27/23\n录入日期03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n问：\n你与家人进行这次谈话时，他们三人是在一起，还是分别进行的谈话？\n\n答：\n分别进行的。\n\n问：\n他们三人中的每一个人都说了大致相同的话？\n\n答：\n类似。\n\n问：\n所以我想确认我的理解是正确的。你分别问了他们Golden Spring的钱来自哪里，而他们每个人都对你说，不要问我这个，因为——请你替我把这句话说完。\n\n答：\n所以你是在编故事，我不明白。\n\n问：\n我是在请你帮助我理解。我想理解你的家人告诉你不要问Golden Spring从哪里得到这笔钱的原因。\n\nBALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加先生）：\n让他问你一个问题。\n\n问：\n请告诉我，为什么你的每一位家人都告诉你不要问他们Golden Spring的钱来自哪里？\n\nBALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加先生）：\n反对。如果你知道的话。\n\n官方口译员：\n你是在要求反对这个问题吗？\n\n案号22-50073 文件1604-22\n提交日期03/27/23\n录入日期03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\nBALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加先生）：\n我已经反对了。\n\n官方口译员：\n哦，你反对了。\n\nBALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加先生）：\n如果他知道，我允许他回答。\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。\n\n证人：\n我的女儿和妻子被他的合伙人逮捕，并于2017年获释，获释后前往纽约。她们遭到共产党极其严重的折磨。折磨她们的人是这位律师的合伙人。她们都有自己的律师。她们告诉我，不要问她们或与她们就她们自己的财务和个人信息进行沟通。你想做任何事情，最好通过律师进行。\n\n这是我的家人在来纽约之前告诉她们的原则、事情。我只是想告诉你其含义，含义非常相似，但我无法逐字逐句地告诉你。\n\n所以我不希望这位律师编造关于我女儿——关于我女儿伪造、作伪证的任何故事。那种故事。\n\n上一次我们与Holley女士（霍利女士）在这里时，他在说虚假的谎言，说我使用我的Twitter账户，说纽约的法官是共产党，而我甚至没有Twitter账户。\n\nHARBACH先生（哈巴赫先生）：\n为使记录清楚，今天是我首次在法庭上就本诉讼说出任何一句话。因此，我认为你不是在说我，先生。\n\n证人：\n我说的是上一次，是你们办公室的律师。你之前的律师名叫Andy Morse（安迪·莫尔斯，音），他因五年来提出虚假主张而被法官赶出去了。因此，该律师事务所一直在提出虚假主张。\n\nBALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加先生）：\n只需回答他的问题，因为除非你只是试图回答他的问题，否则我无法知道是否应当反对。\n\n证人：\n我没有分别与我的家人、女儿和妻子谈过，去说同样的事情。如果我说同样的事情、同样的话，那就是在编造虚假的故事。\n\nHARBACH先生（哈巴赫先生）：\n我明白。\n\n证人：\n你不能运用你的想象力并把它放进我的脑子里。这就是为什么纽约南区和法官被他们（听不清），并给了我错误的量刑。\n\n案号22-50073 文件1604-22 提交日期03/27/23 录入日期03/27/23 14:12:10 第92页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日 第134页之\n\n（听不清）由他们所为，他们给了我错误的量刑。\n\n身份不明者：\n你能再说一遍最后那——\n\n证人：\n因为他们的虚假主张，所以纽约南区的法官、该法官，给了我错误的量刑。\n\n私人口译员：\n此外，口译员此前没有完整翻译律师就其反对意见向证人作出的指示。\n\nCLAIBORN女士（克莱伯恩女士）：\n如果你想重复，就请继续。\n\nBALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加先生）：\n我认为你只需听这些问题，并且只回答这些问题。\n\nHARBACH先生（哈巴赫先生）：\n抱歉。律师将转向另一个话题。\n\nHARBACH先生（哈巴赫先生）问：\n\n问：\nKwok先生，Claiborn女士今天问了你一笔你欠Golden Spring的$21 million债务。她问你这2,100万中有多少是律师费，你的回答是“我认为大部分是”。我想知道你所说的“大部分”是什么意思。\n\n案号22-50073 文件1604-22 提交日期03/27/23 录入日期03/27/23 14:12:10 第93页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n问：\n你的意思是$11 million，还是接近$21 million？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n问：\n你现在仍认为其中大部分是律师费吗？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n问：\n你还提到了Logan Cheng（洛根·程）和解，并说与此有关地从Golden Spring借了钱。\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n那笔贷款金额是多少？\n\n答：\n我不记得确切数额。可能大约是200。二——$300,000。\n\n问：\nGolden Spring提供的那笔贷款的条款是什么？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n问：\n当Claiborn女士问你是否曾去过Golden Spring在纽约的办公室时，你回答是。那些办公室的地址是什么？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n那些办公室的地址是什么？\n\n答：\n64th Street, 162。\n\n问：\n你还提到，你上一次去那里是在昨天，去那里的原因是为今天的会议做准备。你在那里见了谁？\n\n第134页之\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日 93\n\n答：\n我的律师。\n\n问：\n在办公室时，除你的律师外，你是否还与其他人为准备今天的会议而见面？\n\n答：\n我不知道你说的其他人是什么意思。\n\n问：\n那么，你是否见了任何为Golden Spring工作的人？\n\n答：\n是，我见了Yvonne Wang（王伊冯）。\n\n问：\n那是昨天？\n\n答：\n是，我昨天见了她。\n\n问：\n你昨天问了她一些问题吗？\n\n答：\n没有。\n\n问：\n请告诉我你与Wang女士谈话的情况？\n\n答：\n你是什么意思？\n\n问：\n我想知道你们谈了什么。\n\n答：\n我让她安排吃的食物和咖啡。\n\n问：\n就这些吗？\n\n答：\n我们还谈了如何废除共产党。\n\n案号22-50073 文件1604-22 提交日期03/27/23\n录入日期03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n问：\n我想确认我理解正确。我认为你说——\n\nBALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加先生）：\n请原谅。我能再听一遍最后那句话吗？\n\n证人：\n我们谈了如何废除共产党。\n\nBALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加先生）：\n谢谢。\n\n问：\nWang女士是Golden Spring的管理人员，对吗？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n你指示她拿咖啡来，对吗？\n\n答：\n不，我没有指示她。我只是希望她拿一些咖啡来。\n\n问：\n你是希望，还是帮助？\n\n答：\n帮助。\n\n问：\n你是在帮助。因为我问你的是你和Wang女士谈了什么。而我以为你说你让她拿一些咖啡来，或者甚至告诉她拿一些咖啡来。\n\n答：\n不，你们律师事务所——你们律师事务所又在编造和想象事情。\n\n问：\n我再问一遍这个问题。\n\nBALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加先生）：\n请问一个问题。不要——\n\n案号22-50073 文件1604-22\n提交日期03/27/23\n录入日期03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n——把话塞进他嘴里。\n\n问：\n你昨天与Wang女士讨论了什么？\n\n答：\n你想让我详细讲吗？我可以讲几个小时。\n\n问：\n嗯，不，如果细节涉及如何推翻中国共产党。我会更精确一些。\n\n答：\n所以你不希望我们废除中国共产党。我们的工作是废除中国共产党。\n\nBALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加先生）：\n只回答问题。\n\n证人：\n你没有问题。你只是在指示某件事。\n\n问：\n有时我会分段说话，以便口译员翻译。\n\nBALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加先生）：\n我认为，如果你只是提问，然后证人——我会指示他回答你的问题。这会有帮助。\n\n问：\n你昨天是否与Yvette [原文如此]讨论了任何与准备今天会议有关的事情？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n你们讨论了什么？\n\n案号22-50073 文件1604-22 提交日期03/27/23\n录入日期03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n答：\n我让她把那些文件带到这里来。\n\n问：\n还有别的吗？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n问：\nLamp Capital（蓝普资本）是什么时候成立的？\n\n答：\n我不知道。\n\n问：\n为什么成立Lamp Capital？\n\n答：\n我不知道。\n\n问：\n谁成立了Lamp Capital？\n\n答：\n我儿子。\n\n问：\n你怎么知道？\n\n答：\n因为我向我儿子借钱支付律师费。\n\n问：\n问题是，你怎么知道是你儿子成立了Lamp Capital？\n\n答：\n因为我儿子说的。\n\n问：\n他亲自告诉你的。\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n他是否就是否成立Lamp Capital向你征求过任何建议？\n\n答：\n没有。\n\n问：\n他是否问过你对于他是否应当成立Lamp Capital的意见？\n\n答：\n没有。\n\n问：\n他是否告诉过你为什么要成立Lamp Capital？\n\n案号22-50073 文件1604-22 提交日期03/27/23 录入日期03/27/23 14:12:10 第98页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n第134页之\n\n答：\n没有。\n\n问：\n当你谈到你针对Boise Schiller（博伊斯·席勒）的律师过失索赔时，你提到某个人，你一直称他为“他”。我想知道那个人是谁？\n\n答：\n我不知道你是什么意思。\n\n问：\n是的，那是个糟糕的问题。我道歉。你陈述，有人未经你的许可向法院提交虚假文件；该人威胁你的家人；该人在饮酒后威胁你；该人给你和你的家人带来很多损失，包括在向法官出示文件前没有提供翻译后的文件。我的问题是，那个人是谁？\n\n答：\nSchiller。Schiller律师。\n\n问：\n所以是Boise Schiller律师事务所的Schiller先生。我理解得对吗？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n谢谢。你是否了解Lamp Capital从事何种业务，如果有的话？\n\n答：\n没有。\n\n问：\n换一个话题。你今天在回答问题时多次说到，那个——\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 我背后的人做了某些事情。\n\n2 你在说谁？\n\n3 答\n我背后的一个人，是一名老板，\n\n4 名叫 Bruno Wu（吴征）。他支付了那起案件——那起强奸\n\n5 案件，即（听不清）强奸案的费用。此外，还有\n\n6 一名债权人在这里，其费用也是由 Bruno Wu 支付的。\n\n7 该律师费由 Bruno Wu 支付。而 Bruno\n\n8 Wu 也是他的合伙人，并且他投资了 \\$800 million。\n\n9 Bruno Wu 的合伙人也是（听不清）的前任\n\n10 高管，他们当时正在调查，并且他们\n\n11 联合了一名合伙人与他们一起调查我的案件。\n\n12 所以在 2017年4月18日，这个（听不清）\n\n13 开始起诉我，提起诉讼。在这 24\n\n14 小时内，Bruno Wu 向我发送了红色通知，他们\n\n15 开始提起诉讼。\n\n16 HARBACH先生：\n我能否打断——\n\n17 证人：\n中国共产党\n\n18 阻止了对我的采访，即 VOA（美国之音）对我的采访。\n\n19 这些事情同时发生。\n\n20 HARBACH先生：\n或者我可以让他继续说下去。\n\n21 证人：\n该\n\n22 律师事务所制作的所有文件都是虚假的。他们向\n\n23 Southern District of New York（纽约南区）\n\n24 法院提供了一份虚假文件。他们甚至对我女儿的\n\n25 游艇提出虚假主张。那艘船是我的。他们向法官提出请求。\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 共134页\n\n1 向纽约南区法院提出请求，而我两次申请\n\n2 破产——个人破产案件，而当天——他们（听不清）\n\n3 两次，包括 Holley女士（霍利女士）。\n\n4 Holley女士在场。\n\n5 第一次 Holley女士在法庭上\n\n6 在场时，他们作了虚假证言，说——并且\n\n7 他们说我女儿就 Sherry 破产案作了虚假证词，因为我女儿从未\n\n8 参与该案件。\n\n9 \n\n10 Holley女士在那里，在第二次开庭日期也在场，Holley女士也在那里。\n\n11 \n\n12 该所的律师正在对法官陈述，\n\n13 他们说我使用 Twitter 账户来——并且\n\n14 他们说在 Twitter 上，我在\n\n15 Twitter 上说纽约南区法官是共产党员。\n\n16 \n\n17 你可以看到我背后的所有人，\n\n18 其中一个是 Bruno Wu，一个人支付了许多\n\n19 案件的费用——\n\n20 HARBACH先生：\n我想问另一个\n\n21 问题。\n\n22 由 HARBACH先生询问：\n\n23 问\n你是否以任何方式知悉，\n\n24 你的破产代理律师 Brown Rudnick law firm（布朗·拉德尼克律师事务所）\n\n25 此前是否曾代理 Bruno Wu？\n\n共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 官方口译员：\n我能否休息\n\n2 一会儿？我实在无法像刚才那样集中注意力。\n\n3 内容太多了。我能休息一下吗？\n\n4 CLAIBORN女士（克莱伯恩女士）：\n我能否请你先问完那个\n\n5 问题，然后我们再休息？\n\n6 官方口译员：\n可以。你能否\n\n7 重复一下那个问题？\n\n8 HARBACH先生：\n当然可以。\n\n9 问\n你是否以任何方式知悉，\n\n10 你的破产代理律师 Brown Rudnick\n\n11 law firm 此前是否代理过 Bruno Wu？\n\n12 官方口译员：\n你说的是代理\n\n13 其他人吗？\n\n14 HARBACH先生：\n是的。Bruno Wu。\n\n15 答\n不知道。\n\n16 CLAIBORN女士：\n我们短暂\n\n17 休庭。我们将在 2:45 回到这里。\n\n18 （休庭）\n\n19 CLAIBORN女士：\n好的。短暂休庭后，\n\n20 我们恢复记录。\n\n21 Harbach先生，您可以继续。\n\n22 HARBACH先生：\n谢谢。\n\n23 由 HARBACH先生询问：\n\n24 问\nKwok女士，在你面前的文件中，\n\n25 有本案提交的文件 78。\n\n共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n官方口译员：哪份文件？是这一份吗？\n\nHARBACH先生：是。抱歉。律师告知我，你们的副本没有盖章。\n\n问\n我说的是你的正式表格 106。因此，我的问题从第 9 页开始，该页有一个标题，写着“附表 D，由财产担保债权的债权人”。你看到那里了吗？你勾选了“是”框，并被指引至附表 D，所以请翻到那里。这是在第 18 页。\n\nBALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加先生）：标题是什么？他也许可以根据标题更容易找到。\n\nHARBACH先生：好的。这是附表 D 的小表格，即一份有担保债权的债权人清单。\n\n由 HARBACH先生询问：\n\n问\nKwok先生，你会看到 Golden Spring New York Limited（纽约金泉有限公司）有五项单独的条目。所有五行中，每一栏的数据都相同。因此，我的问题是，为什么这份附表上有五项相同的条目？问题是，为什么这份附表上有五项相同的条目？\n\n答\n我不知道五项是什么意思——\n\n问\n每一行都完全相同。我只是问，为什么有五行载有相同的信息？\n\n答\n我不知道。\n\n问\n你提交的那些文件中有一些具体说明，其中一项说明涉及 Taconic Road（塔科尼克路）的住宅。\n\nHARBACH先生：律师们，我说的是文件 77，第 4 页。\n\n官方口译员：哪一页？\n\nHARBACH先生：第 4 页。\n\n官方口译员：84 页？\n\nHARBACH先生：不，第 4 页。\n\n官方口译员：哦，第 4 页。好的。\n\n由 HARBACH先生询问：\n\n问\n我的问题与其说是关于确切文本，不如说是关于实质内容。因此，第一个问题是，与塔科尼克路房屋有关的所有费用是否均由家庭成员及家庭控制的企业直接支付？\n\n答\n是。\n\n问\n哪些家庭成员？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23 Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 Page 104\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 答\n我妻子，有时由我儿子支付。\n\n2 问\n哪些由家庭控制的企业？\n\n3 答\n哪个国家——我妻子。\n\n4 问\n你妻子不是企业。我想\n\n5 问的是，哪些由家庭控制的企业支付\n\n6 塔科尼克房屋的费用？\n\n7 答\nGreenwich LLC（格林尼治有限责任公司）。\n\n8 问\n好的。顺便问一下，你如何知道\n\n9 你妻子和有时你的儿子支付这些费用？\n\n10 答\n因为我住在那里。\n\n11 问\n你观察到他们支付这些费用吗？\n\n12 答\n是。\n\n13 问\n这是否曾经是应你的要求？\n\n14 答\n我不记得我要求过任何事情。\n\n15 问\nGreenwich Land LLC（格林尼治地产有限责任公司）——是，Greenwich\n\n16 Land LLC 除了 373\n\n17 Taconic Road 外，是否拥有任何其他房地产？\n\n18 答\n我不知道。\n\n19 问\n你是否知道位于康涅狄格州 Cos Cob（科斯科布）33 Ferncliff 的房产的任何情况？\n\n20 \n\n21 官方口译员：\n你能否重复\n\n22 一遍？\n\n23 HARBACH先生：\n可以。\n\n24 问\n康涅狄格州 Cos Cob 的 33 Ferncliff。\n\n25 官方口译员：\n是 31，对吗？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23\nEntered 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 HARBACH先生：\n不，是 33。\n\n2 答 是，现在我记起来了。它也由\n\n3 我妻子的公司拥有。\n\n4 问 即 Greenwich Land？\n\n5 答 也许。\n\n6 问 你知道吗？\n\n7 答 我不确定。\n\n8 问 你曾去过 33 Ferncliff 吗？\n\n9 答 是。\n\n10 问 最近一次是什么时候？\n\n11 答 不。\n\n并非最近。\n\n12 问 你知道 Greenwich Land 何时购买\n\n13 33 Ferncliff 吗？\n\n14 答 我不记得。\n\n15 问 你知道大约花了多少钱\n\n16 吗？\n\n17 答 可能超过 \\$1 million。\n\n18 问 \\$1.37 million 听起来大致正确吗？\n\n19 答 我不确定。\n\n20 问 大约在\n\n21 2019年9月购买，这听起来对你来说大致正确吗？\n\n22 答 不确定。\n\n23 问 暂时回到 373 Taconic。\n\n24 那处房产的购买价格是多少？\n\n25 答 可能是 400 到 500,000。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23\nEntered 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 私人口译员：\n不，不，不。\n\n2 官方口译员：\n4 到 5 million。\n\n3 抱歉。\n\n4 问 如果你知道，373\n\n5 Taconic 的大致购买时间是什么时候？\n\n6 答 我不知道。\n\n7 问 你是否曾居住在 33 Ferncliff？\n\n8 答 没有。\n\n9 问 你知道目前是否有人住\n\n10 在那里吗？\n\n11 答 之前可能有另一位同志，你\n\n12 知道，是脱离中国共产党的，他\n\n13 曾住在那里。\n\n14 问 多久以前？\n\n15 答 大概一到两年前。\n\n16 问 你记得那个人的名字吗？\n\n17 答 记得。\n\n18 问 是什么？\n\n19 答 Wong Din Gong（音）。\n\n20 问 据你所知，目前是否有人住在那里？\n\n21 \n\n22 答 我不知道。\n\n23 问 说到 373 Taconic，购买该房产的\n\n24 资金来自哪里？\n\n25 答 我不知道。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23 Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 Page 107\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 106\n\n1 问 你知道该房屋是\n\n2 用现金还是融资购买的吗？\n\n3 答 我不知道。\n\n4 问 对 33 Ferncliff 也是同样的问题。你\n\n5 知道购买该房屋的资金来自\n\n6 哪里吗？\n\n7 答 我听说是用现金购买的。\n\n8 问 从谁那里——抱歉。你是从谁那里听说\n\n9 的？\n\n10 答 我不记得。\n\n11 问 你知道那笔钱来自哪里吗？\n\n12 答 我不知道。\n\n13 问 你知道 Saraca Media Group（萨拉卡媒体集团）是什么吗？\n\n14 答 Saraca？\n\n15 问 Saraca。\n\n16 答 Saraca Media Group。我知道。\n\n17 问 Sirraca Media Group 是什么？\n\n18 答 就是 Saraca。它是一家公司。\n\n19 问 什么类型的公司？\n\n20 答 我不确定。\n\n21 问 你个人是否曾与\n\n22 Saraca 有任何关系？\n\n23 答 没有。\n\n24 问 你是否知道 Saraca 所从事业务\n\n25 类型的任何情况？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23\n共134页 Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10 Page 108\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 107\n\n1 答 我记得他们与 GTV Media\n\n2 platform（GTV媒体平台）有关，或者他们投资了 GTV Media\n\n3 platform。\n\n4 问 你如何知道这一点？\n\n5 答 因为我是他们的顾问，拥有该顾问职位的人。而且我是 GTV 的主持人。而且\n\n6 这也是脱离共产党的一项投入和平台。\n\n7 \n\n8 \n\n9 问 你刚才说你是顾问时，\n\n10 是为 Saraca 还是为 GTV 担任顾问？\n\n11 答 GTV。\n\n12 问 Saraca 是否曾经——曾将 162\n\n13 East 64th Street 地址与其关联？\n\n14 官方口译员：哪个地址？\n\n15 你能否重复一遍。\n\n16 问 可以。162 East 64th Street。问题\n\n17 是，Saraca 是否曾与该地址\n\n18 有关联？\n\n19 答 我不知道。\n\n20 问 那是家族办公室的地址，\n\n21 对吗？\n\n22 答 那是其中之一。\n\n23 问 其他地址在哪里？\n\n24 答 我不知道。\n\n25 问 纽约市还有其他的吗？\n\n共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 答\n我想澄清一下。Golden Spring 是位于这栋 162 大楼内的\n\n2 公司之一。\n\n3 问\n明白了，谢谢你。\n\n4 我们在询问你期间提到过家族办公室，\n\n5 我只是想明确一下。当\n\n6 我们说家族办公室时，我们是否指\n\n7 East 64th Street 的那个地址？\n\n8 答\n是。\n\n9 问\nGTV 是否曾与\n\n10 家族办公室地址有关联？\n\n11 答\n我不知道。\n\n12 问\n谁拥有 Saraca？\n\n13 答\n我儿子。\n\n14 问\n从何时开始？\n\n15 答\n我不知道。\n\n16 问\nSaraca 目前是否仍然存在？\n\n17 答\n我不知道。\n\n18 问\n你是否知道——你是否知道 Saraca 资产的\n\n19 价值？\n\n20 答\n我不知道。\n\n21 问\n你是否知道 Saraca 向 GTV\n\n22 支付款项的任何情况？\n\n23 答\n不，我不知道。\n\n24 问\n你妻子是否曾告诉你，Saraca 向\n\n25 Greenwich Land 支付过任何数百万美元的款项？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22\nFiled 03/27/23 Entered 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 109\n\n1 Greenwich Land？\n\n2 答 我不知道。\n\n3 问 你是不知道她是否曾告诉过你，还是你不知道这些付款？\n\n4 \n\n5 答 她从未告诉过我，我甚至不知道\n\n6 金额是多少。\n\n7 问 你知道一家名为 Ziba Limited（齐巴有限公司，Z-I-B-A）\n\n8 的公司吗？\n\n9 官方口译员：\nZiba，Z-I-B-A？\n\n10 HARBACH先生：\n是。\n\n11 答 我不知道。\n\n12 问 如果我已经问过这个问题，我很抱歉。\n\n13 Saraca 与\n\n14 GTV 之间，如有，是什么关系？\n\n15 答 Saraca 是 GTV 的投资者。\n\n16 问 你知道 Saraca 向 GTV 投资了\n\n17 多少钱吗？\n\n18 答 我不知道。\n\n19 问 GTV 是何时成立的？\n\n20 答 2020年。也许是 2019年。不太确定。\n\n21 问 你知道 Saraca 的任何高级职员或董事\n\n22 的姓名吗？\n\n23 答 我不知道。\n\n24 问 你知道 Yvette Wang（王伊薇特）是否是 Saraca 的\n\n25 高级职员或董事吗？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 1604-22 Filed 03/27/23\nEntered 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 110\n1 答 我不知道。\n2 问 你认识一个叫Hong Chung Wang（王洪钟）的人吗？\n3 \n4 答 认识。\n5 问 他是谁？\n6 答 他是我的合伙人，也是脱离共产党的\n7 战友。\n8 问 他是你的朋友吗？\n9 答 朋友、战友和合伙人。\n10 问 你所说的合伙人是什么意思？\n11 答 因为我们曾有一家商业公司。\n12 问 请谈谈那家公司。\n13 答 嗯，我不记得那家\n14 公司的名称。那是一家调查在美国的共产党进行洗钱及\n15 实施犯罪行为的公司。\n16 \n17 问 那是一家营利性公司吗？\n18 答 我不知道。\n19 问 你不知道？\n20 答 我不知道。\n21 问 那家公司的名称是什么？\n22 答 翻成英文时我不记得。\n23 我不记得名称。\n24 问 你与Hong Chung Wang在该公司作为\n25 合伙人的大致时间范围是什么？\n\n案号22-50073 文件1604-22 提交日期03/27/23\n登记日期03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 我不记得。\n2 问 在过去三年内？\n3 答 肯定是三年多以前。\n4 问 十多年以前？\n5 答 不是。\n6 问 Hong Chung Wang是否曾与\n7 Saraca（萨拉卡）有任何关联？\n8 答 我不知道。\n9 问 他是否曾担任\n10 Saraca的高级职员或董事？\n11 答 我不知道。\n12 问 GTV中的G代表什么？\n13 答 God。The Goal，就像——G-O-A-L。\n14 问 英文单词“goal”？\n15 答 是。Goal或God。\n16 问 好的。你认识Hong Chong\n17 Wang有多久了？\n18 答 我不记得。\n19 问 十多年？\n20 答 大约。\n21 问 而你今天仍认为他是你的朋友\n22 吗？\n23 答 是。\n24 HARBACH先生（哈巴赫）：\n请稍等。\n25 问 今天有许多问题涉及\n\n案号22-50073 文件1604-22 提交日期03/27/23 登记日期03/27/23 14:12:10 第113页（共134页）\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 Golden Spring（黄金泉）为你支付生活费用一事。\n2 就你的生活费用而言，是否正确的是，\n3 其中没有任何款项预期\n4 会被偿还？\n5 答 是，正确。\n6 问 那么，那些款项不是任何\n7 正式协议的标的，对吗？\n8 答 不是。\n9 问 那么，那些款项实质上是\n10 给你的赠与，对吗？\n11 答 是。\n12 问 什么是Rule of Law Foundation（法治基金会）？\n13 答 这是什么意思？\n14 问 问题是，它是什么？\n15 法庭官方口译员：\nRule of Law\n16 Foundation？\n17 HARBACH先生：\n是，先生。\n18 法庭官方口译员：\n我没有听清\n19 。您能换一种方式提问吗？\n20 问 有一个实体叫作——\n21 法庭官方口译员：\n哦。\n22 问 ——Rule of Law Foundation。\n23 法庭官方口译员：\n好的。\n24 HARBACH先生：\n我希望通过直接问这个问题\n25 来节省一些时间。\n\n案号22-50073 文件1604-22\n提交日期03/27/23\n登记日期03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 你熟悉Rule of Law\n2 Foundation吗？\n3 答 是。\n4 问 你是否参与了其设立？\n5 答 是。\n6 问 其成立时，你是否向其捐过款？\n7 \n8 答 不是我本人。\n9 问 你是否指示任何实体向\n10 Rule of Law Foundation捐款？\n11 答 直接指示和提出建议之间有任何\n12 区别——\n13 问 如果是提出建议，请告诉我那是建议。\n14 \n15 答 我没有指示或命令任何人。\n16 我只是一直建议人们为该基金会捐款。\n17 \n18 私人口译员：\n作为一名\n19 口译员，我认为，如果证人向口译员提问，\n20 口译员应当翻译证人所问的问题，\n21 而不是回答该问题。\n22 \n23 法庭官方口译员：\n我可以回答\n24 任何事情。\n25 私人口译员：\n证人说\n\n共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 你是不是在说那个（听不清）\n2 法庭官方口译员：\n这就是为什么我\n3 把问题转达给律师。\n4 私人口译员：\n你回答他\n5 是，然后你就说那个。\n6 法庭官方口译员：\n哦，天哪。\n7 我没有说——我漏掉什么了吗？\n8 （口译。）\n9 法庭官方口译员：\n好的。没有\n10 问题。他说没有问题未得到回答。\n11 HARBACH先生提问：\n12 问 你是否曾建议你的任何\n13 家庭成员向Rule of Law\n14 Foundation捐款？\n15 答 是，我确实建议过。\n16 问 你的任何家庭成员或家庭控制的企业是否\n17 向Rule of Law Foundation\n18 捐过款？\n19 答 是。\n20 问 多少钱？\n21 答 现金方面有一笔——超过$1 million。\n22 来自Hong Kong（香港）、Japan（日本）和Mainland（中国大陆）——\n23 在中国，合计应当超过30\n24 million。\n25 问 目前仅聚焦于\n\n共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 你家人按照你的建议所作的捐款。\n2 大约是多少钱？\n3 答 我不知道细节。由于\n4 安全原因，他们不希望我知道。\n5 问 你刚才是否说过你的家人\n6 捐了超过一百万美元？\n7 答 纽约这里有一百万现金。\n8 问 那是什么时候？\n9 答 我不记得。\n10 问 原因是——嗯，让我这样问。\n11 你是否向你的家庭成员建议过\n12 他们应向Rule of Law\n13 Foundation捐赠的金额？\n14 答 我希望他们捐得越多越好。\n15 问 那就是你告诉他们的吗？\n16 答 是。\n17 问 你是否知道Rule of Law\n18 Foundation是否与64th Street（第64街）的家族办公室\n19 地址有关联？\n20 答 是。\n21 问 你是否曾于2018年11月向\n22 Rule of Law Foundation捐赠$100 million？\n23 法庭官方口译员：\n您能再重复\n24 一遍吗？\n25 问 你是否曾捐赠$100 million\n\n共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 于2018年11月向Rule of Law Foundation？\n2 答 没有。在直播中，就像我想要——试图在直播节目中筹集资金。\n3 问 你是否曾——\n4 BALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加）：\n等等。那是他完整的回答吗？\n5 法庭官方口译员：\n是。有什么问题吗？\n6 私人口译员：\n不完全是证人所说的话。\n7 （听不清）播出可以。直播可以。但是，筹集资金——\n8 法庭官方口译员：\n请求捐款，对吗？\n9 （口译。）\n10 私人口译员：\n募集——\n11 证人：\n募集资金，募集捐款。是，在那个直播节目中，或者不管怎么说，你知道，为了——你知道，要求捐款以募集资金，募集钱款。\n12 问 你是否曾承诺向Rule of Law Fund（法治基金）捐赠$1 billion？\n13 法庭官方口译员：\n你说的是10 billion吗？\n14 HARBACH先生：\n不是，先生。1 billion。\n\n共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 法庭官方口译员：\n哦，one\n2 billion。\n3 答 我不记得。我不记得。\n4 问 你的意思是你有可能\n5 作出了那个承诺？\n6 答 如果我们联合全世界的组织，\n7 我们可以达到那个目标。\n8 问 明白。这是一个简单的问题。我\n9 只是不知道答案。\n10 你本人是否曾承诺向Rule of Law Fund\n11 捐赠$1 billion？\n12 答 在过去五年里，我进行了超过5,000次\n13 直播。有些直播\n14 可能长达四或五小时。我很难\n15 记得我说过的每一句话。\n16 问 嗯，我理解，但我只是在\n17 询问一个问题。即，你是否曾\n18 公开地、私下地或以任何方式承诺\n19 向Rule of Law Fund捐赠$1 billion？\n20 私人口译员：\n他没有说\n21 投资。\n22 HARBACH先生：\n捐赠。\n23 法庭官方口译员：\n是，捐赠。\n24 答 我不记得。\n25 问 我再问一次这个问题。\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 共134页\n\n1 你是说，你有可能\n2 作出了这样的承诺。你只是不能确定？\n3 答 在Holley女士（霍利）面前，我不会说\n4 任何事情都有可能，但这是一个非常严重的\n5 问题。现在他们又开始这个阴谋了。\n6 问 嗯，这不是问你三天前\n7 早餐吃了什么。这是问你是否承诺\n8 捐赠$1 billion；如果答案是你不知道，\n9 那也没关系。\n10 BALDIGA先生：\n我认为那一直就是\n11 答案。\n12 HARBACH先生：\n不，答案一直是“我\n13 不记得”。\n14 BALDIGA先生：\n不记得。\n15 HARBACH先生：\n是，先生。这有一点\n16 不同。\n17 问 所以答案可能是否定的，但你并没有\n18 说不是。你说的是你不记得。\n19 答 我说了三次，我不记得。\n20 BALDIGA先生：\n没有问题——\n21 答 因为在过去五年里，\n22 （听不清）总是替我作出这类回答，\n23 所以Southern District（纽约南区）的法官\n24 被你们欺骗了，而你们又开始了——\n25 问 我继续。\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 共134页\n\n1 答 在南区法院，我只见过法官20秒。在这五年中，我一句话也没有说，而我被罚款合计约$300 million，因为那就是他们所做的。\n2 BALDIGA先生：\n好。我们停止吧。等一个问题，然后我们回答这个问题。\n3 HARBACH先生：\nBill，我感谢你的耐心。我继续。\n4 BALDIGA先生：\n请翻译我所说的话。\n5 法庭官方口译员：\n您能重复一下吗？大家同时都在说话。\n6 BALDIGA先生：\n问一个问题，他会回答一个问题。\n7 问 在过去两年中，你是否向Rule of Law Foundation作过任何捐赠？\n8 答 我本人，对吗？\n9 问 是，先生。\n10 答 没有。\n11 问 在过去两年中，你是否建议过你的任何家人向Rule of Law Foundation捐款？\n12 答 我不记得。\n13 问 如果你实际上没有那笔钱，你是否会曾承诺\n\n共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 向Rule of Law Foundation捐赠$1 billion？\n2 \n3 BALDIGA先生：\n对问题形式提出异议。\n4 法庭官方口译员：\n我没有听清\n5 。您能再重复一遍吗？\n6 问 如果你实际上没有那笔钱，你是否会曾承诺\n7 向Rule of Law Foundation\n8 捐赠$1 billion。\n9 BALDIGA先生：\n而且我提出了异议。\n10 HARBACH先生：\n然后Bill提出了异议。\n11 法庭官方口译员：\n他说你是否——想要判处我死刑？\n12 \n13 问 Lady May（梅夫人号）的价值大约是多少？\n14 \n15 答 我不知道。\n16 问 在你登上Lady May的这些年里，你大约\n17 有多少次邀请朋友加入你？\n18 \n19 法庭官方口译员：\n您能再重复\n20 一遍那个问题吗？\n21 HARBACH先生：\n可以。\n22 问 在你登上Lady May的这些年里，你大约\n23 有多少次邀请朋友出来加入你？\n24 \n25 BALDIGA先生：\n等等。\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\nHARBACH先生：抱歉，Bill。\nBALDIGA先生：David，你即将就Lady May相关问题进行证言录取。你可以选择今天或到时再问。哪一个都可以。\n案号22-50073 文件1604-22 提交日期03/27/23 登记日期03/27/23 14:12:10 第122页（共134页）\n\nHARBACH先生：这是一个公平的观点。我继续。\n\nBALDIGA先生：好的。没有问题。HARBACH先生：如果我可以再次请律师注意文件77。我想聚焦于问题19。\n\n问 Kwok先生，请在你读完那个问题时告诉我。是第19题。\n\n（暂停。）\n\n答 读完了。\n\n问 好的。为了记录在案，该问题是：在你申请破产前十年内，你是否将任何财产转让给你作为受益人的自益信托或类似安排？\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 而这确实是你在表格上勾选的答案。我要问你的是，如果你把“你”这个词改为家庭成员作为受益人，答案会是什么？BALDIGA先生：异议。\n\n案号22-50073 文件1604-22\n提交日期03/27/23\n登记日期03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 答\n我无法回答带有“如果”的问题。\n\n2 问\n我换一种问法。\n\n3 HARBACH 律师（哈巴赫）：\n还有，Jack（杰克），请你\n\n4 对我耐心一点。\n\n5 问\n在你申请破产前十年内，你是否将任何财产转移至由你自行设立、你的家庭成员为受益人的信托，或类似安排？\n\n9 答\n没有。\n\n10 问\n继续看同一份文件，\n\n11 到第 27 题。你读完后告诉我一声，\n\n12 先生。\n\n13 （暂停。）\n\n14 答\n好的。我读完了。\n\n15 问\n所以你可以看到，你在“是”字旁边的方框内打了勾。然后说明中写道：\n\n16 勾选上方所有适用项，并在下方填写每项业务的详细信息。\n\n19 HARBACH 律师：\n你看到那里了吗，\n\n20 Jack（杰克）？\n\n21 官方口译员：\n我没有看到\n\n22 那个。\n\n23 HARBACH 律师：\n下一项——Holley（霍利）可以给你看。\n\n24 （暂停。）\n\n25 HARBACH 律师：\n所以我刚才只是向\n\n证人指出——为了让翻译员理解，我再说一遍。\n\n3 问\n在勾选“是”的方框旁边，说明写道：勾选上方所有适用项，并在下方填写每项业务的详细信息。上方的方框均未被勾选，这就是我的问题。\n\n7 对于你所列出的那三个实体中的每一个，应当勾选哪个或哪些方框？\n\n9 答\n我无法确定是哪一个。\n\n10 问\n这是你需要更多时间来弄清楚的事情，还是你只是不知道答案？\n\n12 答\n我可以逐个回答。\n\n13 问\n好的。我们就这样做。先从 Genever Holdings Corporation（Genever Holdings 公司）开始。\n\n15 答\n哪一家 Genever（Genever）？\n\n16 问\n列出的那一家是 Genever Holdings Corporation（Genever Holdings 公司）。对于 Genever Holdings Corporation（Genever Holdings 公司），你会勾选其中哪个方框，如有的话？\n\n20 答\n它曾经——曾经是 LLC 的成员。上面的选项不适用，应转到第 12 项——转到第 12 项。它以前是 LLC。\n\n24 问\n你的意思是，你会勾选“LLC 的成员”这一方框，但该项应使用过去时？\n\n1 答 是。曾经是。\n\n3 问 其他任何方框是否适用于你与 Genever Holdings Corporation（Genever Holdings 公司）的关系？\n\n5 答 最后一行似乎适用于我。我不是很确定。\n\n7 问 最后一行是指持有公司至少百分之五的有表决权证券或股权证券的所有人？\n\n10 答 我曾在很短的一段时间内持有 50 percent。\n\n12 问 好的。那么 Shiny Time（Shiny Time）呢？\n\n13 答 Shiny Time（Shiny Time）已经不存在了。\n\n14 问 我明白。它存续期间，哪些方框是准确的？\n\n16 答 第一项。\n\n17 问 独资经营者？\n\n18 答 是。\n\n19 问 其他任何项呢？\n\n20 答 不确定。\n\n21 问 好的。那么 Well Origin Limited（Well Origin Limited）呢？\n\n22 答 它已经不存在了。\n\n23 问 好的。不过问题相同。它存续期间，哪些方框适用？\n\n25 答 第一项。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23\n录入日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 其他任何项呢？\n\n2 答 不确定。\n\n3 问 关于这个问题最后一点。Genever Holdings Corporation（Genever Holdings 公司）填写该企业存续日期的栏位是空白的。你知道这些日期应当是什么吗？\n\n7 答 2015。可能是 March、April 到 June、July。\n\n9 问 哪一年？\n\n10 答 2015。\n\n11 问 所以，大约从 March 或 April 至大约 July，均在 2015？\n\n13 答 是。\n\n14 问 好的。这是否是该公司存续的全部期间？\n\n16 答 我在该公司待了几个月，在这一期间，几个月，并持有——持有股票。我离开后，该公司仍然存续。\n\n20 问 我明白。它现在是否仍然存在？\n\n22 答 我相信它仍然存在。\n\n23 问 好的。你是哪一年结婚的？\n\n24 答 1918——或者 1985。\n\n25 问 你儿子是哪一年出生的？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23\n录入日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 1986。\n\n2 问 先生，你多大年龄？\n\n3 答 54。\n\n4 问 你的家庭开始与 Uda Property Company（Uda 房地产公司）合作时，你儿子多大？\n\n6 答 11。哦，五岁——五岁。\n\n7 问 所以，大约是在 1991 年，你的家庭开始与 Uda（Uda）合作？\n\n10 答 是。\n\n11 问 Henan Uda Hotel（河南裕达酒店）何时完工？\n\n12 答 1997 年。\n\n13 问 Uda International Trade Center（裕达国际贸易中心）呢？它何时完工？\n\n15 答 大致在同一时间。\n\n16 问 你在本案的声明中称，这两项都是成功的项目。\n\n18 答 是。\n\n19 问 这使你的家庭开始积累大量财富。\n\n21 答 是。\n\n22 问 因此，考虑到这是在 90 年代初，这些项目大约为你的家庭带来了多少钱？\n\n25 答 我不记得了。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23\n录入日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 超过 \\$50 million 吗？\n\n2 官方口译员：\n50 还是 15？\n\n3 HARBACH 律师：\n5-0。\n\n4 官方口译员：\n哦，好的。\n\n5 答 我不记得了。\n\n6 问 Pangu Plaza（盘古大观）怎么样？它何时完工？\n\n8 答 July 2008。\n\n9 问 那么，在 90 年代初至 2008 年期间，Guo family（郭氏家族）还投资或参与了哪些重大项目？\n\n12 官方口译员：\n从 1990 年代到\n\n13 ——\n\n14 答 1990 年代初至 2008 年间。\n\n15 问 你记得其中任何项目吗？任何重大业务？\n\n17 答 Beijing Golden Spring（北京金泉）。\n\n18 问 那是什么？\n\n19 答 它是一家地产公司。房地产。它是一家房地产公司。\n\n21 问 这是一家开发公司，还是——类似买卖代理机构？\n\n23 答 开发公司。\n\n24 问 Pangu Plaza（盘古大观）项目大约何时开始？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23\n录入日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 大约 1999。\n\n2 问 好的。那么我们就以此作为一个时间点。\n\n4 在 Pangu Plaza（盘古大观）项目开始时，该家庭大约已积累了多少财富？\n\n7 私人口译员：\n请再问一遍\n\n8 那个问题？\n\n9 HARBACH 律师：\n当然。\n\n10 问 截至 1999 年，即 Pangu Plaza（盘古大观）项目开始之时，该家庭到那时已赚取或积累了多少财富？\n\n13 官方口译员：\n你说的是\n\n14 1999 年之后吗？\n\n15 HARBACH 律师：\n不，我说的是截至\n\n16 1999 年？\n\n17 官方口译员：\n哦，截至 1999 年。\n\n18 问 截至 1999 年，该家庭赚了多少钱？\n\n20 答 我不记得了。\n\n21 问 超过 \\$100 million 吗？\n\n22 答 我不记得了。\n\n23 问 超过 \\$500 million 吗？\n\n24 答 我不记得了。\n\n25 问 超过 a billion dollars 吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 1604-22 提交日期 03/27/23\n录入日期 03/27/23 14:12:10\n第 130 页（共 134 页）\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 我不记得了。\n\n2 问 你本人是否参与了与 Uda Property Company（Uda 房地产公司）的合作？\n\n4 答 是。\n\n5 问 你本人是否参与了 Henan Uda Hotel（河南裕达酒店）的开发？\n\n7 答 是。\n\n8 问 你本人是否参与了位于 Zhengzhou（郑州）的 Uda International Trade Center（裕达国际贸易中心）？\n\n10 答 是。\n\n11 问 你本人是否参与了 Pangu Plaza（盘古大观）的开发？\n\n13 答 是。\n\n14 问 谁负责 Beijing Golden Spring Real Estate Development firm（北京金泉房地产开发公司）？\n\n16 答 一个专业团队。\n\n17 问 你是该团队的成员吗？\n\n18 答 当时我是顾问。\n\n19 问 Beijing Golden Spring（北京金泉）的顾问？\n\n20 答 是。\n\n21 问 你担任其顾问大约是在什么时间段？\n\n23 答 2000 年之后。\n\n24 问 2000 年之后。好的。\n\n25 CLAIBORN 女士（克莱伯恩）：\nHarbach 先生，我只是想\n\n指出，现在是 4:18，我知道我们今天已经进行了很长时间——首先，我为打断你表示歉意。\n\n4 HARBACH 律师：\n没关系。\n\n5 CLAIBORN 女士：\n但我想让委员会的律师有机会在今天结束前问几个问题。\n\n8 HARBACH 律师：\n当然。可以。\n\n9 STAFSTROM 先生（斯塔夫斯特罗姆）：\n我会非常简短。\n\n10 STAFSTROM 先生询问：\n\n11 问\n我注意到你的头发很短。我喜欢这样。你最近理发了吗？\n\n13 答\n是。我理发了。\n\n14 问\n你在哪里理的发？\n\n15 答\n我妻子。\n\n16 问\n哦，你妻子。好的。她总是给你理发吗？\n\n18 答\n从疫情之后到现在。\n\n19 问\n好的。好吧。那么我没有其他问题了。\n\n21 CLAIBORN 女士：\n在我们商定新的日期期间，我将暂停录音。\n\n24 （不在记录中。）\n\n25 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我们恢复记录。\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 短暂休息后。我们已选定续期日期为 April 29th，上午 10:00 开始。今天的程序结束。谢谢。\n\n4 （会议休会。）\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n本人，CHRISTINE FIORE（克里斯廷·菲奥雷），经法院批准的记录转录员、认证电子记录员及转录员，兹证明：上述内容系根据上述案件诉讼程序的官方电子录音制作的正确文字记录。\n\n9 April 15, 2022\n\n11 转录员\n\n10 Christine Fiore（克里斯廷·菲奥雷），CERT\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 索引\n\n3 页码\n4 Claiborn 女士（克莱伯恩）询问 6\n5 Wolman 先生（沃尔曼）询问 71\n6 Harbach 先生（哈巴赫）询问 80\n7 Stafstrom 先生（斯塔夫斯特罗姆）询问 130","key_entities":["Kwok","Ho Wan Kwok","Je","Saraca","GTV","Yanping Wang","Chinese Communist Party","CIPA","Guo","Wang Yanping"],"ecf_references":[{"doc_number":77,"court":"CTB"},{"doc_number":78,"court":"CTB"}],"word_count":34883,"status":"published","published_at":"2023-03-27 00:00:00","created_at":"2023-03-27","updated_at":"2026-08-23 22:53:00"}