{"id":"court_ctb_2032_29","court":"CTB","case_no":"22-50073","doc_number":2032,"sub_number":29,"doc_type":"EXHIBIT","filed_date":"2023-07-25","title":"Exhibit 29 > UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT In Re \\* Chapter 11 \\* \\* HO WAN KWOK, \\* Case 22-50","summary_zh":null,"summary_en":null,"body_en":"#### **Exhibit 29**\n\n> UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT In Re \\* Chapter 11 \\* \\* HO WAN KWOK, \\* Case 22-50073(JAM) \\* Debtor. \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* TRANSCRIPT OF CONTINUED 341 MEETING OF CREDITORS APRIL 6, 2022 Electronically Recorded by the Office of the United States Trustee Transcript Prepared By: Christine Fiore, CERT Fiore Reporting and Transcription Service, Inc. 4 Research Drive, Suite 402 Shelton, CT 06484 (203)929-9992\n\n134\n\n| Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | | | |\n|------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|\n| APPEARANCES: | | | | |\n| For the Debtor: | WILLIAM R. BALDIGA, ESQ.
BEN SILVERBERG, ESQ.
Brown Rudnick, LLP
Seven Times Square
New York, NY
10036 | | | |\n| For the U.S. Trustee: | HOLLEY E. CLAIBORN, ESQ.
STEVEN MACKEY, ESQ.
Office of the U.S. Trustee
150 State Street
New Haven, CT
06510 | | | |\n| For Logan Cheng,
Creditor: | JAY MARSHALL WOLMAN, ESQ.
Randazza Legal Group
100 Pearl Street, 14th Floor
Hartford, CT 06103 | | | |\n| For Pacific Alliance
Asia Opportunity Fund,
LP, Creditors: | DAVID V. HARBACH, II, ESQ.
O'Melveny & Myers, LLP
1625 I Street NW
Washington, DC
20006 | | | |\n| | STUART SARNOFF, ESQ.
MAKENZIE RUSSO
O'Melveny & Myers, LLP
Times Square Tower
7 Times Square
New York, NY
10036 | | | |\n| | ANNECCA SMITH, ESQ.
Robinson and Cole
280 Trumbull Street
Hartford, CT
06103 | | | |\n| For Bruno Wu, Weican
Meng and Rui Ma,
Creditors: | KRISTEN MAYHEW, ESQ.
McElroy, Deutsch, Mulvaney &
Carpenter
One State Street
Hartford, CT
06103 | | | |\n| For the Official
Committee of Unsecured
Creditors: | STEVEN STAFSTROM, ESQ.
Pullman & Comley
850 Main Street
Bridgeport, CT
06601 | | | |\n\n2\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Good morning.
Today is | | | | |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|--|\n| 2 | Wednesday, April 6th, 2022.
We are gathered for the | | | | |\n| 3 | continued meeting of creditors in the Chapter 11 | | | | |\n| 4 | case of Ho Wan Kwok, case no. 22-50073. | | | | |\n| 5 | My name is Holley Claiborn. I'm a trial | | | | |\n| 6 | attorney in the Office of the United States Trustee | | | | |\n| 7 | and I will be conducting today's meeting.
Today's | | | | |\n| 8 | meeting is being recorded on a digital recorder and | | | | |\n| 9 | is also available for parties to participate on the | | | | |\n| 10 | phone.
And there are parties, including the debtor | | | | |\n| 11 | and counsel and other professionals, gathered here | | | | |\n| 12 | in person. | | | | |\n| 13 | Today's meeting is being interpreted, as | | | | |\n| 14 | you can hear and our interpreter today is Jeff and | | | | |\n| 15 | I'm going to ask Jeff to respond to this oath. | | | | |\n| 16 | (The interpreter is sworn.) | | | | |\n| 17 | THE COURT:
On behalf of Mr. Kwok we have | | | | |\n| 18 | William Baldiga and Ben Silverberg. | | | | |\n| 19 | Also on behalf of the debtor we have | | | | |\n| 20 | financial professionals Craig Gelbert and Matthew | | | | |\n| 21 | Flynn. | | | | |\n| 22 | Present here today on behalf of the | | | | |\n| 23 | Committee of Unsecured Creditors is Steven Stafstrom | | | | |\n| 24 | from Pullman and Comley. | | | | |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
4 | | | | |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|--|\n| 1 | Mr. Stafstrom is the lawyer for the | | | | |\n| 2 | Official Committee of Unsecured Creditors. | | | | |\n| 3 | Also present today on behalf of PAACS | | | | |\n| 4 | Stuart Sarnoff, David Harbach and MacKenzie Russo. | | | | |\n| 5 | They represent PAACS. | | | | |\n| 6 | On behalf of certain creditors, including | | | | |\n| 7 | Rui Ma, we have Kristen Mayhew. | | | | |\n| 8 | On behalf of creditor, Logan Cheng, we | | | | |\n| 9 | have Jay Wolman. | | | | |\n| 10 | Also on behalf of PAACS we have Annecca | | | | |\n| 11 | Smith, from Robinson and Cole. | | | | |\n| 12 | And then also for the debtor today we have | | | | |\n| 13 | Josh Klein and Aaron Mitchell. | | | | |\n| 14 | Today's meeting will feature me asking | | | | |\n| 15 | questions first, followed by the opportunity for | | | | |\n| 16 | creditors to come up and ask questions. | | | | |\n| 17 | Is anyone on the telephone conference | | | | |\n| 18 | line? | | | | |\n| 19 | MR. MACKEY:
Steven Mackey from the U.S. | | | | |\n| 20 | Trustee's Office is on the conference line. | | | | |\n| 21 | Thank you, Mr. Mackey.
Anyone else | | | | |\n| 22 | besides Mr. Mackey. | | | | |\n| 23 | Hearing none, I'm going to proceed to | | | | |\n| 24 | swearing in Mr. Kwok. | | | | |\n| 25 | (The debtor is sworn.) | | | | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Kwok, as you know, | | | | | |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|--|--|\n| 2 | today's meeting is being recorded and Mr. Jeff here | | | | | |\n| 3 | is our official interpreter for today. | | | | | |\n| 4 | Jeff will be interpreting the questions | | | | | |\n| 5 | that I ask and your answers, and I ask that you wait | | | | | |\n| 6 | until Jeff has made a full translation before you | | | | | |\n| 7 | answer my questions. | | | | | |\n| 8 | EXAMINATION BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | | | |\n| 9 | Q
Mr. Kwok, we're going to pick up today in | | | | | |\n| 10 | an area that we left off in general from the last | | | | | |\n| 11 | meeting of creditors that was held back on March | | | | | |\n| 12 | 21st, 2022. | | | | | |\n| 13 | Has anything changed in your employment | | | | | |\n| 14 | status since March 21st, 2022? | | | | | |\n| 15 | A
No. | | | | | |\n| 16 | Q
Has anything changed with respect to your | | | | | |\n| 17 | residence? | | | | | |\n| 18 | A
No. | | | | | |\n| 19 | Q
During the meeting held on March 21st, | | | | | |\n| 20 | 2022 I asked you about the accuracy of your | | | | | |\n| 21 | bankruptcy schedules and your bankruptcy statement | | | | | |\n| 22 | of financial affairs. | | | | | |\n| 23 | A
No change. | | | | | |\n| 24 | Q
Thank you. | | | | | |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Jeff, for purposes of my | | | | | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
6 | | | | |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|--|\n| 1 | questions I'm going to be following the documents | | | | |\n| 2 | that are in front of you. When I say schedules, it's | | | | |\n| 3 | this document.
And then this document is the | | | | |\n| 4 | statement of financial affairs.
Okay?
And when I | | | | |\n| 5 | refer to an ECF number, it's at the top of the page. | | | | |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
ECF number. | | | | |\n| 7 | Okay. | | | | |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay?
That should allow | | | | |\n| 9 | you to follow along and start on this page. | | | | |\n| 10 | EXAMINATION BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | | |\n| 11 | Q
Okay.
Mr. Kwok, I'm going to ask you to | | | | |\n| 12 | make sure you have in front of you, which you appear | | | | |\n| 13 | to do, Schedules A-B through J. | | | | |\n| 14 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
He has Mandarin | | | | |\n| 15 | translations in front of him. | | | | |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | | |\n| 17 | Q
I see that Mr. Baldiga, who is seated next | | | | |\n| 18 | to you, has English versions.
But in front of you, | | | | |\n| 19 | Mr. Kwok, appear to be translations.
Is that | | | | |\n| 20 | accurate? | | | | |\n| 21 | A
Just on Schedule A-B. | | | | |\n| 22 | Q
Okay.
So, Mr. Kwok, when you're answering | | | | |\n| 23 | my questions today, you're going to be taking a look | | | | |\n| 24 | at your own translated versions of the bankruptcy | | | | |\n| 25 | schedules. | | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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134 |\n|---------------|--------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
7 |\n| 1 | A | Okay. |\n| 2 | Q | Okay. |\n| 3 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Just a minute, |\n| 4 | Your Honor. | |\n| 5 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Yes. |\n| 6 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I'm having a |\n| 7 | | little difficulty hearing the interpreter when he |\n| 8 | | interprets the witness's answers. |\n| 9 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
So, Jack, if you |\n| 10 | could speak up. | I'm going to move the microphone. |\n| 11 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, okay. |\n| 12 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
See if that works. |\n| 13 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 14 | Q | Okay.
Mr. Kwok, starting at Question No. |\n| 15 | 1 on Schedule A-B. | With respect to Schedule A-B at |\n| 16 | | Question No. 1, that asks if you own any legal or |\n| 17 | | equitable interest in any real estate residence or |\n| 18 | | building or similar property.
Your answer to that |\n| 19 | | Question No. 1 was no, Mr. Kwok.
Is that an |\n| 20 | accurate answer? | |\n| 21 | A | Yes. |\n| 22 | Q | Mr. Kwok, have you owned any real estate |\n| 23 | | between the year 2018 and your bankruptcy filing in |\n| 24 | February of 2022? | |\n| 25 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
8 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | that one? |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 3 | Q
Have you owned any real estate between the |\n| 4 | year 2018 and your bankruptcy filing in February |\n| 5 | 2022? |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 7 | that one?
He said he didn't hear that. |\n| 8 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 9 | Q
Mr. Kwok -- |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
I'm sorry.
I couldn't hear. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said that he |\n| 12 | didn't understand the translation.
I just want to |\n| 13 | make sure I understand first. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'll repeat the question. |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yes. |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you owned any real estate |\n| 18 | between 2018 and February of 2022? |\n| 19 | A
No. |\n| 20 | Q
Mr. Kwok, as of the bankruptcy filing in |\n| 21 | February 2022, did you have any equitable interest |\n| 22 | in any real estate anywhere in the world? |\n| 23 | A
No. |\n| 24 | Q
Mr. Kwok, as of the bankruptcy filing in |\n| 25 | February 2022, did you have any legal interest in |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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9 |\n| 1 | any real estate anywhere in the world? |\n| 2 | A
No. |\n| 3 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you ever owned any real |\n| 4 | estate in Hong Kong? |\n| 5 | A
No. |\n| 6 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
What was the |\n| 7 | answer? |\n| 8 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
No. |\n| 9 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 10 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you ever owned the property |\n| 11 | located at 16A South Bay Road, Hong Kong? |\n| 12 | A
No. |\n| 13 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you currently own an |\n| 14 | apartment at the Sherry Netherland in New York City? |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 16 | it.
Can I ask him repeat the -- repeat the answer? |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
You have to say -- whatever |\n| 18 | you're going to say, you have to -- you're talking |\n| 19 | to everybody, not just Holley, so I need to hear |\n| 20 | what you're saying. |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
I just - |\n| 22 | - I just want to ask him to repeat -- repeat the |\n| 23 | answer. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay? |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
10 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE WITNESS:
I don't own that real estate |\n| 2 | in New York, the Sharon -- the Sharons -- at that |\n| 3 | address I don't remember, and I own -- I own 50 |\n| 4 | percent the stock -- the stock and -- |\n| 5 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No. |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
No? |\n| 7 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No. |\n| 8 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 9 | THE WITNESS:
For the family. |\n| 10 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can I ask you not to |\n| 11 | interrupt?
Can you just wait until the end and then |\n| 12 | -- |\n| 13 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- you can express whatever |\n| 15 | it is you want to say? |\n| 16 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can you please just |\n| 18 | translate Mr. Kwok's answer again? |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
I just |\n| 20 | want to repeat, make sure -- and I said it right, |\n| 21 | you know, what he said. |\n| 22 | THE WITNESS:
So, yeah, he -- he said, I |\n| 23 | owe -- I own 50 percent of the -- 50 percent, but I |\n| 24 | don't own the whole real estate, but I just |\n| 25 | represent the family. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 12 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
11 |\n|----|---------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 2 | Q
Mr. Kwok, what do you own 50 percent of? |\n| 3 | A
Bravo Luck, 50 percent of the stock powder |\n| 4 | -- power.
I don't know.
I don't understand. |\n| 5 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
(Indiscernible.) |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He owned -- he |\n| 7 | said he owns the 50 percent of it. |\n| 8 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
-- we can hear |\n| 9 | you fine, Holley. |\n| 10 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
I'm going to ask -- |\n| 11 | I'm going to -- |\n| 12 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't know if |\n| 13 | the microphone is connected to anything. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
It is.
It is.
Jeff, if |\n| 15 | you can speak up? |\n| 16 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Mr. Kwok said |\n| 17 | he owe -- he owns 50 percent of -- of the stock.
Is |\n| 18 | it like the stock of the real estate or something? |\n| 19 | I don't know.
I don't get it.
But you can help if |\n| 20 | she wants to help.
Do you want him to help a little |\n| 21 | bit? |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'd rather not. |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 24 | MS. CLAIBORN:
So, I'll just -- I'll ask |\n| 25 | follow-up questions. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
12 |\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
All right.
But I need to |\n| 3 | hear if it's a misinterpretation, so -- |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to ask a |\n| 5 | clarifying question, if I could. |\n| 6 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 7 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own 50 percent of a |\n| 8 | company called Bravo Luck? |\n| 9 | A
I represent my family to hold 50 percent |\n| 10 | of the stock. |\n| 11 | Q
Mr. Kwok, when you use the term -- |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
Could I hear that back? |\n| 13 | Could you repeat that? |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
I |\n| 15 | represent my family to hold 50 percent of the stock |\n| 16 | of the -- of the company. |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. |\n| 18 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, when you say family, what do you |\n| 20 | mean? |\n| 21 | A
My family is a big family and that |\n| 22 | includes a lot of people.
My kids and my sister-in |\n| 23 | laws, and all people together.
A lot of people. |\n| 24 | Q
Mr. Kwok, who owns an interest -- |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me.
We do have an |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
13 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | interpretation question. |\n| 2 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I just want to |\n| 3 | ask that, is there supposed to be summary of the |\n| 4 | (indiscernible) the interpretation? |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
To the best of Mr. Jeff's |\n| 6 | ability, it should be verbatim. |\n| 7 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Right.
So if |\n| 8 | Mr. Kwok said, my son, my daughter, my brother, my |\n| 9 | sister-in-law, my nephew, my niece, many people, |\n| 10 | then if the interpreter say, well, a lot of my |\n| 11 | families and my brother, many people, then should it |\n| 12 | be correct or not? |\n| 13 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I would prefer that Mr. |\n| 14 | Jeff translate as literally as possible.
So with |\n| 15 | that instruction, can we -- |\n| 16 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- do a specific job as |\n| 18 | best we can going forward?
Thank you. |\n| 19 | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 21 | Q
So, Mr. Kwok, who owns the company called |\n| 22 | Bravo Luck? |\n| 23 | A
My son. |\n| 24 | Q
And what is your son's name? |\n| 25 | A
Cheng Wu. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
14 |\n| 1 | Q
How long has your son owned Bravo Luck? |\n| 2 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 3 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Say again, |\n| 4 | please. |\n| 5 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't |\n| 6 | remember. |\n| 7 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 8 | Q
So, Mr. Kwok, what do you own 50 percent |\n| 9 | of when you explained your ownership interest in the |\n| 10 | Southern Sherry Netherland? |\n| 11 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You may |\n| 12 | interpret. |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 14 | that one again, Holley? |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 16 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you testified that you owned 50 |\n| 17 | percent of some company, and that was in response to |\n| 18 | my question if you owned the Sherry Netherland |\n| 19 | apartment.
Can you please explain what you meant? |\n| 20 | A
Sherry is a co-op.
It doesn't have the -- |\n| 21 | it doesn't have the -- it doesn't have the |\n| 22 | ownership. |\n| 23 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
May I, Ms. |\n| 24 | Holley? |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Yes, of course. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 16 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
15 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
You've got to |\n| 2 | speak louder. |\n| 3 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
I'm going to put |\n| 4 | ourselves on pause for a second here. |\n| 5 | (Off the record) |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
We're back on |\n| 7 | the record after a short break, and, Mr. Kwok, you |\n| 8 | remain under oath. |\n| 9 | Jeff, could you please retranslate? |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
The last question.
You |\n| 12 | want me to ask it again? |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
Would |\n| 14 | you ask it again? |\n| 15 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
I'll try it |\n| 16 | again. |\n| 17 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 18 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you testified today that you own |\n| 19 | 50 percent of an interest in some company, and that |\n| 20 | was the answer you gave me in response to my |\n| 21 | question if you own an apartment at the Sherry |\n| 22 | Netherland.
Can you please explain your answer? |\n| 23 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection. |\n| 24 | THE WITNESS:
I don't know how to explain |\n| 25 | it.
He said the Sherry Netherland is a co-op.
I |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | don't have a deed on that property and I just |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | represent my family to own 50 percent of the right. |\n| 3 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me.
Go ahead. |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Because that -- |\n| 5 | Mr. Kwok did mention the company name Bravo Luck, so |\n| 6 | Mr. Interpreter did not say the word Bravo Luck, the |\n| 7 | company that holds the interest of Sherry |\n| 8 | Netherland, and Mr. Kwok represents the family owns |\n| 9 | 50 percent of Bravo Luck, which is the holding |\n| 10 | company of owning the Sherry Netherland. The Sherry |\n| 11 | Netherland is a co-op. |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
So I'm going to make a |\n| 13 | continuing objection to the extent that the |\n| 14 | interpreter is not providing the exact words used by |\n| 15 | the witness.
I'm not ascribing any faults or |\n| 16 | anything, but obviously that's critical to the |\n| 17 | quality of the testimony and that's necessary. |\n| 18 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We need -- |\n| 19 | MR. BALDIGA:
We have to use the words |\n| 20 | used by the witness. |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm sure that Jeff is going |\n| 22 | to do his best job today to try to translate |\n| 23 | everything literally. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
But please understand that |\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | there is a familiarity with terms in this room that |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | Mr. Jeff does not have.
So to the extent that |\n| 3 | people are answering questions with shorthand |\n| 4 | versions of company names or just one words, the |\n| 5 | answer should be as specific as possible -- |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, I -- |\n| 7 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- if you could translate |\n| 8 | that. |\n| 9 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- my best but |\n| 10 | probably that interpreter honestly, Holley, the |\n| 11 | interpreter probably know the case more, the |\n| 12 | details. |\n| 13 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I agree.
Can you just -- |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
But if he -- |\n| 15 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- can you translate what I |\n| 16 | just said to Mr. Kwok, because I want to make sure |\n| 17 | -- |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh. |\n| 19 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- he answers questions in |\n| 20 | a way that are easily translatable. |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I just tell him |\n| 22 | and the answer let -- you know short and clear, but |\n| 23 | I pretty much understand what he says and -- |\n| 24 | MS. CLAIBORN:
And can you please |\n| 25 | translate Mr. Kwok's answers or comments to your |\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | comments? |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said he will |\n| 3 | try to make it a shorter and clear and -- but he |\n| 4 | needs to explain the details as much as he can |\n| 5 | because it's a -- it's related to his lifeline. |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Sarnoff? |\n| 7 | MR. SARNOFF:
Yeah.
I just wanted to make |\n| 8 | clear that to the extent there is a discrepancy |\n| 9 | between the interpreter -- the translator, the |\n| 10 | official translator and Mr. Kwok's interpreter, that |\n| 11 | the translator is the final arbiter and that unless |\n| 12 | the translator agrees with the translation |\n| 13 | difference that the interpreter is putting forth, |\n| 14 | they have to work that out before we can defer to |\n| 15 | the -- to Mr. Kwok's personal interpreter as what |\n| 16 | Mr. Kwok said. |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
I don't accept that. |\n| 18 | MR. SARNOFF:
That's fine. |\n| 19 | MR. BALDIGA:
That can be your position. |\n| 20 | MR. SARNOFF:
Okay.
The position has to |\n| 21 | be that the translator has to agree with the |\n| 22 | interpreter about what Mr. Kwok said for the record |\n| 23 | to be accurate. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
That -- I understand your |\n| 25 | position. |\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| | 19 |\n|--|----|\n| | |\n\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
So, Holley, if |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | I miss anything that his personal interpreter wants |\n| 3 | to make up whatever I'm missing, some of the detail |\n| 4 | information, and is it okay for her to add on and if |\n| 5 | I agree what -- you know, what I'm missing or what |\n| 6 | he said, maybe I'm missing some detail information |\n| 7 | and some -- |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I think the better route |\n| 9 | for today -- |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- and for purposes of a |\n| 12 | clear translation and a clear record -- |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- is for you, Jeff, to |\n| 15 | interpret -- |\n| 16 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Uh-huh. |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- my questions and to |\n| 18 | interpret Mr. Kwok's answers. |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 20 | MS. CLAIBORN:
And if Mr. Kwok thinks, |\n| 21 | based on your interpretation, that you have not |\n| 22 | translated properly, then he can testify again and |\n| 23 | you can try again. |\n| 24 | But I would like to restrict the |\n| 25 | interaction that happens between translators and |\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 20 |\n|----|\n\n between Mr. Kwok's personal translator so that we have an official record where the person asking the question is me, it's being officially translated, and Mr. Kwok is giving the answers, and that also is being officially translated. MR. BALDIGA: But, Holley, the problem with that is the witness doesn't know whether Jeff's English report is in fact accurate. You can't leave it up to the witness. That's why we have a check interpreter. If he spoke English, then we wouldn't need any interpreters. He can't do that. MS. CLAIBORN: I think as a practical matter, Mr. Kwok speaks enough English to know whether or not he's answered his question. MR. BALDIGA: No, he doesn't. I object. MS. CLAIBORN: Well, I -- I think that that has been what I have seen from my own personal experience. That said, we're going to try and do the best we can -- MR. BALDIGA: I agree. MS. CLAIBORN: -- and we'll see where we go. MR. BALDIGA: Okay. MS. CLAIBORN: Okay?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
21 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 2 | Q
So back to questions and answers.
Mr. |\n| 3 | Kwok, do you own an interest in Genever Holdings |\n| 4 | Corporation? |\n| 5 | A
I just have -- in reality, I don't, but I |\n| 6 | just held -- I just represent my family to hold some |\n| 7 | interest. |\n| 8 | Q
Is anyone authorized to act on behalf of |\n| 9 | Genever Holdings Corporation aside from you? |\n| 10 | A
My son. |\n| 11 | Q
Is there a document that memorializes your |\n| 12 | ownership interest, whatever it is, in Genever |\n| 13 | Holdings Corporation? |\n| 14 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You -- you may |\n| 15 | answer. |\n| 16 | THE WITNESS:
No. |\n| 17 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Ms. Holley, can |\n| 18 | I -- first of all, the last time that -- when he was |\n| 19 | saying -- instructing the witness about his |\n| 20 | testimony, what should it be, I don't think the |\n| 21 | interpreter -- the official interpreter interpreted |\n| 22 | your instruction.
He is telling the witness what he |\n| 23 | should be doing, but not what you were saying. |\n| 24 | And then, now that the witness is saying |\n| 25 | that he asked the interpreter twice that -- you were |\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | talking about ownership, you were talking about |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | ownership interest.
Now he used twice these words, |\n| 3 | and then at the end, Mr. Jeff said, yes.
And then, |\n| 4 | so he answered no, but then the interaction was not |\n| 5 | interpreted. |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Jeff, could you |\n| 7 | translate? |\n| 8 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't know |\n| 9 | what she just said.
I don't know.
I didn't |\n| 10 | understand what she's saying. |\n| 11 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I mean, every |\n| 12 | word should be interpreted.
The witness -- every |\n| 13 | word the witness says should be interpreted.
Ms. |\n| 14 | Holley's words should be interpreted, right? |\n| 15 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Yes. |\n| 16 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Right.
But he |\n| 17 | will -- not interpreted Ms. Holley's -- and you did |\n| 18 | not interpret everything Mr. Kwok said. |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
Maybe -- |\n| 20 | maybe we should have her to interpret.
I'm going to |\n| 21 | excuse myself.
I don't know -- |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to put the -- |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- I'm not |\n| 24 | familiar with -- |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- I'm going to put the |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 24 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
23 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | matter on pause for a moment. |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, yeah, |\n| 3 | yeah. |\n| 4 | (Off the record) |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
We are back on |\n| 6 | the record after a short break. |\n| 7 | Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath. |\n| 8 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 9 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you have any United States |\n| 10 | currency with you today? |\n| 11 | A
No. |\n| 12 | Q
When you filed your bankruptcy case, did |\n| 13 | you have any United States currency? |\n| 14 | A
No. |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own any foreign currency? |\n| 16 | A
No. |\n| 17 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own any digital currency? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you have any financial |\n| 20 | accounts of any kind in the United States? |\n| 21 | A
No. |\n| 22 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you have any financial |\n| 23 | accounts of any kind outside of the United States? |\n| 24 | A
No. |\n| 25 | Q
On March 21st, you testified you have no |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | job and no source of income.
Who pays for your |\n|----|---------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | household expenses? |\n| 3 | A
Sometimes my son, sometimes my wife, or |\n| 4 | sometimes my other family member. |\n| 5 | Q
Do you have access to any credit cards? |\n| 6 | A
No. |\n| 7 | Q
Do you have access to any debit cards |\n| 8 | attached to a bank account? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | Q
How do you pay for groceries? |\n| 11 | A
My son, my wife, my family members' |\n| 12 | company pay for. |\n| 13 | Q
Where does your son live? |\n| 14 | A
London. |\n| 15 | Q
How does your son send you money? |\n| 16 | A
He has a family office in a company, New |\n| 17 | York. |\n| 18 | Q
Does the family office give you money? |\n| 19 | A
They pay the expenses above. |\n| 20 | Q
What does the term family office mean? |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You may answer. |\n| 22 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can I ask to -- |\n| 23 | ask him to repeat? |\n| 24 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Yes. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
Can you |\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 -- MR. BALDIGA: Right. He also have to interpret for the witness what I say. MS. CLAIBORN: You haven't said anything yet and he's going to ask him to repeat his answers so then he's going to translate, and then we can have whatever discussion you want to have. THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: The counsel raised objection. The interpreter did not interpret the objection. MS. CLAIBORN: I can happily repeat the question, but we are not going to get anywhere today in a meaningful fashion if people are interrupting on basic questions. MR. BALDIGA: No, I didn't interrupt, but -- MS. CLAIBORN: So let me try again. MR. BALDIGA: Okay. But hold on. If I object or if I say anything else, that has to be interpreted. MS. CLAIBORN: You're not waiting for space to interpret. So, Mr. Jeff, can you interpret that exchange that just happened? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Okay. I don't know. It's just too much interruption.\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
26 |\n| 1 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Right. |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Holley, I can't |\n| 3 | do -- keep doing this.
I just too distracted and I |\n| 4 | don't know.
It just a simple -- ask the witness |\n| 5 | just a simple repeat and then -- |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Let me try -- |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- it gets all |\n| 8 | these people involved. |\n| 9 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Correct.
Let me -- |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
We're not going |\n| 11 | anywhere. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Let me try the question |\n| 13 | again. |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, what do you mean by the term, |\n| 16 | family office? |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You may answer. |\n| 18 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Baldiga, that term is |\n| 19 | all over the papers.
Can you repeat -- translate? |\n| 20 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
No, I'm not |\n| 21 | going anywhere.
Holley, I just excuse myself.
I'm |\n| 22 | sorry.
It's -- it's not going -- |\n| 23 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to put it on |\n| 24 | pause, please. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- this is too |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
27 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | much. |\n| 2 | (Off the record) |\n| 3 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We're back on the record |\n| 4 | after a short break. |\n| 5 | Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath.
During |\n| 6 | the break, I spoke with Attorney Baldiga and we have |\n| 7 | agreed that all objections as to form of the |\n| 8 | question are reserved. |\n| 9 | I'm going to go back to my questions. |\n| 10 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
The question we left off after the break |\n| 12 | was what do you mean by the term family office? |\n| 13 | A
They are representing my big family.
It's |\n| 14 | a company my son, my daughter, my wife, and it's a |\n| 15 | company representing my family for investment. |\n| 16 | Q
What is the name of the company? |\n| 17 | A
Golden Spring Europe. |\n| 18 | Q
Do you mean Golden Spring New York? |\n| 19 | A
Roughly the name. |\n| 20 | Q
Who pays for the meals that you eat? |\n| 21 | A
Sometimes my wife's company, sometimes my |\n| 22 | family office, my son's company. |\n| 23 | Q
Mr. Kwok, when you use the term family |\n| 24 | office, are you referring to the company known as |\n| 25 | Golden Spring New York Limited? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
28 |\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What's the name |\n| 2 | of the company?
Can I -- can you repeat it? |\n| 3 | MS. CLAIBORN:
The name is Golden Spring |\n| 4 | New York Limited. |\n| 5 | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 6 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 7 | Q
In your bankruptcy case, you filed a |\n| 8 | report covering your expenses for the month of |\n| 9 | February. |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
May I repeat |\n| 11 | again? |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Maybe I'll try it again. |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Thank you. |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you filed a monthly operating |\n| 16 | report covering the month of February 2022, and that |\n| 17 | report shows you spent approximately \\$160,000. |\n| 18 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
I object. |\n| 19 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 20 | Q
Who funded the disbursements of \\$160,000? |\n| 21 | A
Some from the Golden Spring family office |\n| 22 | and the company, some were paid by my wife and my |\n| 23 | wife's company. |\n| 24 | Q
What is the name of your wife's company? |\n| 25 | A
Greenwich, in Connecticut. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
29 |\n| 1 | Q
Are you referring to the company? |\n| 2 | A
Yes, the company name. |\n| 3 | Q
What expenses does your wife company, |\n| 4 | Greenwich, pay for? |\n| 5 | A
Mostly food, because I live in my wife's |\n| 6 | house.
We share the cleaning, the expenses because |\n| 7 | -- and also the garden maintenance expenses. |\n| 8 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Okay.
Can we take |\n| 9 | a quick time out so I can speak with my co-counsel? |\n| 10 | Or with my partner. |\n| 11 | MR. BALDIGA:
No, let's just wait. |\n| 12 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 13 | Q
Where does your wife's company, Greenwich, |\n| 14 | get its money from? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Did your wife's company, Greenwich, pay |\n| 17 | for any professional expenses? |\n| 18 | A
I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q
Is your wife the person who actually makes |\n| 20 | the payments? |\n| 21 | A
Yes. |\n| 22 | Q
Does your wife have a checking account? |\n| 23 | A
I don't know. |\n| 24 | Q
Does your wife have a debit card? |\n| 25 | A
I don't know. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
30 |\n| 1 | Q | When you eat in a restaurant with your |\n| 2 | | wife, who pays the bill? |\n| 3 | A | I never went to a restaurant with my wife. |\n| 4 | Q | Ever? |\n| 5 | A | I think I was chased by these people and I |\n| 6 | never went. | Thinks I -- you know, I think I was |\n| 7 | | chased by these people. |\n| 8 | Q | Does your wife buy groceries? |\n| 9 | A | Sometimes. |\n| 10 | Q | How does she pay for them? |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q | Why does Golden Spring New York pay for |\n| 13 | | some of your personal expenses? |\n| 14 | A | Because I'm one of the family member, and |\n| 15 | | my son is very successful and he loves me very much. |\n| 16 | Q | Is there any other reason? |\n| 17 | A | I don't know. |\n| 18 | Q | What personal living expenses of yours |\n| 19 | | does Golden Spring pay for? |\n| 20 | A | The expense from security because I was |\n| 21 | | chased by the people in the back, and the |\n| 22 | | transportation, clothing, and some items for living. |\n| 23 | Q | Who is the person at Golden Spring New |\n| 24 | York -- | |\n| 25 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Wait a minute.
I'm going |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
31 |\n| 1 | to ask a full question. |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 3 | Q
So who is the person at Golden Spring New |\n| 4 | York who authorizes the payment of your personal |\n| 5 | living expenses? |\n| 6 | A
My son. |\n| 7 | Q
Please explain how your son authorizes |\n| 8 | those payments. |\n| 9 | A
I usually communicate with Golden Spring, |\n| 10 | the company's manager and CEO. |\n| 11 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
(Indiscernible) |\n| 12 | director, not manager. |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Could you -- |\n| 14 | okay.
Director, not a manager. |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
Mr. Kwok, who is the director or manager |\n| 18 | that you just referred to? |\n| 19 | A
Wang Yanping. |\n| 20 | Q
Is Ms. Ping a officer of Golden Spring New |\n| 21 | York? |\n| 22 | A
She is a Miss.
She's a lady. |\n| 23 | Q
Is Ms. Ping a corporate officer of Golden |\n| 24 | Spring New York? |\n| 25 | A
Yes. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
32 |\n| 1 | Q | What is her title? |\n| 2 | A | She is a officer or director. |\n| 3 | Q | Does she have a position title? |\n| 4 | A | I don't know. |\n| 5 | Q | Mr. Kwok, are you a corporate officer of |\n| 6 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 7 | A | Now? |\n| 8 | Q | Yes. |\n| 9 | A | No. |\n| 10 | Q | Mr. Kwok, have you ever been in the past, |\n| 11 | | a corporate officer of Golden Spring New York? |\n| 12 | A | I seem to hold a title when the company |\n| 13 | | was established in 2015.
I forgot what title was it |\n| 14 | then. | |\n| 15 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you own any interest in |\n| 16 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 17 | A | No. |\n| 18 | Q | In the past, have you ever had any kind of |\n| 19 | | ownership interest in Golden Spring New York? |\n| 20 | A | No. |\n| 21 | Q | Were you involved in the formation of |\n| 22 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 23 | A | Yes. |\n| 24 | Q | What was your role in the formation of |\n| 25 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | | Filed 07/25/23
of 134 | | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 34 |\n|---------------|--------------------------------------------|---------------|--------------------------|-----------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 33 |\n| 1 | A | | | | Consultant and giving advice, suggestions. | |\n| 2 | Q | | | | Was your son involved in the formation of | |\n| 3 | Golden Spring New York? | | | | | |\n| 4 | A | | | He is the main person. | He -- he was the | |\n| 5 | main person. | | | | | |\n| 6 | Q | | | | When Golden Spring New York was created, | |\n| 7 | | | | | who had the ownership interest in New York -- Golden | |\n| 8 | New -- Golden Spring New York? | | | | | |\n| 9 | A | My son. | | | | |\n| 10 | Q | | | | Did Golden Spring Hong Kong have any | |\n| 11 | | | | | ownership interest in Golden Spring New York? | |\n| 12 | A | | | | I don't know the detail of the interest | |\n| 13 | | | | | and because this -- these two combined, it's | |\n| 14 | considered one thing. | | | | | |\n| 15 | Q | | | | Is Golden Spring Hong Kong a separate | |\n| 16 | company from Golden Spring New York? | | | | | |\n| 17 | A | I don't know. | | | | |\n| 18 | Q | | | | Who owns Golden Spring Hong Kong? | |\n| 19 | A | My son. | | | | |\n| 20 | Q | | | | In 2015, when Golden Spring New York was | |\n| 21 | formed, who owned Golden Spring Hong Kong? | | | | | |\n| 22 | A | I don't know. | | | | |\n| 23 | Q | | | | Are you a corporate officer of Golden | |\n| 24 | Spring Hong Kong? | | | | | |\n| 25 | A | | I don't remember. | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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Page 35 |\n|---------------|------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 34 |\n| 1 | Q
Have you ever been a cooperate officer of | |\n| 2 | Golden Spring Hong Kong? | |\n| 3 | A
I don't remember. | |\n| 4 | Q
Do you have any ownership interest in | |\n| 5 | Golden Spring Hong Kong? | |\n| 6 | A
No. | |\n| 7 | Q
Have you ever in the past, had an | |\n| 8 | ownership interest in Golden Spring Hong Kong? | |\n| 9 | A
No. | |\n| 10 | Q
What type of business is Golden Spring New | |\n| 11 | York engaged in? | |\n| 12 | A
I don't know. | |\n| 13 | Q
How does Golden Spring New York generate | |\n| 14 | revenue? | |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. | |\n| 16 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: | Ms. Holley, I |\n| 17 | don't know if this -- the (indiscernible) he said, | |\n| 18 | how does Golden Spring New York generate revenue, | |\n| 19 | not how does Golden Spring New York making money, | |\n| 20 | right? | |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN: | That was basically my |\n| 22 | question. | |\n| 23 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: | Yeah, so the |\n| 24 | interpreter should not say -- interpret it in such a | |\n| 25 | way that Golden Spring New York -- how does Golden | |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
35 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Spring New York make money, to the -- to the -- to |\n| 2 | Mr. Kwok. |\n| 3 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Generate money, |\n| 4 | yeah.
Generate revenue, generate money. |\n| 5 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No, but you said |\n| 6 | -- |\n| 7 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm happy to ask it |\n| 8 | specifically. |\n| 9 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 10 | Q
How does Golden Spring New York make |\n| 11 | money? |\n| 12 | A
I don't know. |\n| 13 | Q
In the year 2015, were you involved in |\n| 14 | Golden Spring New York's business? |\n| 15 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 16 | Q
Have you ever given a gift of money to |\n| 17 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
Have you ever given any money to Golden |\n| 20 | Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A
No. |\n| 22 | Q
Have you ever transferred any property of |\n| 23 | any kind to Golden Spring New York? |\n| 24 | A
No. |\n| 25 | Q
Have you ever funded Golden Spring New |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
36 |\n| 1 | York in any way? | |\n| 2 | A | No. |\n| 3 | Q | Have you ever loaned money to Golden |\n| 4 | Spring New York? | |\n| 5 | A | No. |\n| 6 | Q | Have you ever invested any of your own |\n| 7 | | money in Golden Spring New York? |\n| 8 | A | No. |\n| 9 | Q | What corporate position does Yanping Wang |\n| 10 | Hold? | |\n| 11 | A | Officer and director. |\n| 12 | Q | Is Yanping Wang the president of Golden |\n| 13 | Spring New York? | |\n| 14 | A | Yes. |\n| 15 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any other |\n| 16 | | corporate officers? |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | Who are they? |\n| 19 | A | I don't remember clearly about their |\n| 20 | names. | |\n| 21 | Q | Please tell me what you remember. |\n| 22 | A | What -- I don't remember their names |\n| 23 | | clearly and -- because I don't even remember |\n| 24 | attorney's names. | I don't want to misleading you, |\n| 25 | Holley. | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
37 |\n| 1 | Q | How many officers does Golden Spring New |\n| 2 | York have? | |\n| 3 | A | I don't remember.
Oh, I don't know. |\n| 4 | Sorry. | I don't know. |\n| 5 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any |\n| 6 | directors? | |\n| 7 | A | Yanping Wang. |\n| 8 | Q | Is Ms. Wang the only director of Golden |\n| 9 | Spring New York? | |\n| 10 | A | I don't know. |\n| 11 | Q | Where does Golden Spring New York get the |\n| 12 | | money that it uses to pay your personal expenses? |\n| 13 | A | I don't know. |\n| 14 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any |\n| 15 | employees? | |\n| 16 | A | Yes. |\n| 17 | Q | How many? |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q | Are you currently involved in any way in |\n| 20 | | the business of Golden Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A | No. |\n| 22 | Q | What does Golden Spring New York own? |\n| 23 | A | I don't know. |\n| 24 | Q | Golden Spring New York is willing to loan |\n| 25 | | you the sum of \\$8 million.
Where is it getting that |\n\n| Case 22-50073
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38 |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | \\$8 million from? |\n| 2 | A
I don't know. |\n| 3 | Q
Are you the person who asked Golden Spring |\n| 4 | New York to loan you \\$8 million? |\n| 5 | A
No. |\n| 6 | Q
Who asked Golden Spring New York to loan |\n| 7 | you \\$8 million? |\n| 8 | A
My attorney. |\n| 9 | Q
Which attorney? |\n| 10 | A
Aaron Mitchell here. |\n| 11 | Q
Are you referring to Aaron Mitchell? |\n| 12 | A
Now I remember his name now. |\n| 13 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Just for the |\n| 14 | record, I'm not sure Mr. Mitchell has registered an |\n| 15 | appearance yet.
It would be appropriate if he's |\n| 16 | going to be here representing the debtor, if he |\n| 17 | (indiscernible) his appearance. |\n| 18 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I believe I did read Mr. |\n| 19 | Mitchell's name earlier today. |\n| 20 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
He hasn't filed -- |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
He did sign -- |\n| 22 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
-- an appearance in |\n| 23 | this matter. |\n| 24 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Thank you.
Can you |\n| 25 | translate that? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
39 |\n| 1 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't hear |\n| 2 | totally clearly. | I know it's some distance.
I |\n| 3 | don't -- | |\n| 4 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 5 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any bank |\n| 6 | accounts? | |\n| 7 | A | I don't know. |\n| 8 | Q | Do you have access to Golden Spring New |\n| 9 | | York's financial accounts? |\n| 10 | A | No. |\n| 11 | Q | Do you have authority to enter into |\n| 12 | | financial transactions on behalf of Golden Spring |\n| 13 | New York? | |\n| 14 | A | No. |\n| 15 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No.
No, that's |\n| 16 | not the question. | |\n| 17 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What was it? |\n| 18 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm happy to repeat the |\n| 19 | question. | |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 21 | Q | Do you have authority to enter into |\n| 22 | | financial transactions on behalf of Golden Spring |\n| 23 | New York? | Mr. Kwok, if you don't answer -- if you |\n| 24 | | don't understand my question -- |\n| 25 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He's asking if |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
40 |\n| 1 | he -- if I was asking if he has the right to use the |\n| 2 | -- the Golden Spring New York, the accounts for |\n| 3 | transactions.
You know. |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
That was not my question. |\n| 5 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 6 | Q
Mr. Kwok, are you authorized to enter into |\n| 7 | any kind of financial transactions on behalf of |\n| 8 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me, the interpreter |\n| 11 | might have a comment. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can you translate that, |\n| 13 | please? |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
She said |\n| 15 | that it's the trading -- trading of the financial |\n| 16 | trading -- |\n| 17 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Transaction. |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- transaction |\n| 19 | to -- |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Not trading. |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said that, |\n| 22 | no, he was not -- I was not authorized to do the |\n| 23 | transactions, financial transactions. |\n| 24 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 25 | Q
What, if anything, do you currently do for |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
41 |\n| 1 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 2 | A | No. |\n| 3 | Q | Is Golden Spring New York funding your |\n| 4 | | son's personal living expenses? |\n| 5 | A | I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q | Is Golden Spring New York funding your |\n| 7 | | daughter's personal living expenses? |\n| 8 | A | I don't know. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you owe any money to Golden Spring New |\n| 10 | York? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | How much? |\n| 13 | A | Like more than \\$21 million. |\n| 14 | Q | How do you owe more than \\$21 million to |\n| 15 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 16 | A | Because in the past five years and I was |\n| 17 | | sued by a lot of creditors. |\n| 18 | Q | Did Golden Spring New York -- |\n| 19 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
I apologize. |\n| 20 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I just ask him |\n| 21 | to repeat. | |\n| 22 | | THE WITNESS:
In the past five years, I |\n| 23 | | was chased by Chinese Communist Party. |\n| 24 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 25 | it. | Ask -- I'm asking him to repeat it one more |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | time. |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
Short -- short answer. |\n| 3 | THE WITNESS:
In the past five years I was |\n| 4 | trapped -- trapped by some of the cases from Chinese |\n| 5 | Communist Party, designed by the Chinese Communist |\n| 6 | Party, including the case past, that case.
I need |\n| 7 | to -- need to pay a large amount of legal fees so |\n| 8 | that's why I got the support from the Golden Spring |\n| 9 | New York.
This is the main reason I owe \\$21 |\n| 10 | million. |\n| 11 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Interpreter |\n| 12 | missed that, the legal -- legal fee. |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, I said |\n| 14 | the legal fee.
I said that.
Did I say legal fee? |\n| 15 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I didn't think |\n| 16 | so, but as long as you say that. |\n| 17 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 18 | Q
How much of the \\$21 million is comprised |\n| 19 | of legal fees? |\n| 20 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 21 | that one again? |\n| 22 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 23 | Q
How much of the \\$21 million -- |\n| 24 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 25 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
43 |\n| 1 | Q | -- is comprised of legal fees? |\n| 2 | A | I think most of it is legal fee. |\n| 3 | Q | Why is Golden Spring New York paying your |\n| 4 | legal fees? | |\n| 5 | A | Because the Golden Spring New York is my |\n| 6 | | son and my family's company and they love me very |\n| 7 | much. | They hope -- they hoping me to live, not be |\n| 8 | | killed by the people behind me. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you have any written agreement with |\n| 10 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | What legal -- sorry.
What written |\n| 13 | | agreements do you have with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 14 | A | It's agreement for borrowing -- borrowing |\n| 15 | money. | |\n| 16 | Q | When did you enter into that agreement to |\n| 17 | borrow money? | |\n| 18 | A | A few years ago.
I know -- I don't know |\n| 19 | rough time. | |\n| 20 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't recall. |\n| 21 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
What -- |\n| 22 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What -- yeah, I |\n| 23 | | don't remember the time. |\n| 24 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 25 | Q | What are the terms of the legal agreement |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 45 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
44 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | with Golden Spring New York?
Sorry.
Let me |\n| 2 | rephrase that.
What are the terms of the written |\n| 3 | agreement with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 4 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 5 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Sorry.
Could you |\n| 6 | repeat the English, please? |\n| 7 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Go ahead and say that -- |\n| 8 | repeat. |\n| 9 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't |\n| 10 | remember. |\n| 11 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 12 | Q
Are you obligated under that written |\n| 13 | agreement with Golden Spring New York to pay back |\n| 14 | all of the money? |\n| 15 | A
Yes. |\n| 16 | MR. BALDIGA:
There's more to the |\n| 17 | question. |\n| 18 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 19 | Q
That Golden Spring paid to lawyers on your |\n| 20 | behalf. |\n| 21 | A
Yes. |\n| 22 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
It was only |\n| 23 | (indiscernible) of a difference in the interpreting. |\n| 24 | For example, the interpreter did not interpret under |\n| 25 | the agreement, are you obligated to make them all -- |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
45 |\n| 1 | to pay back all the money.
All the money that is, |\n| 2 | you know -- |\n| 3 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
-- spent on the |\n| 5 | lawyer. |\n| 6 | MR. BALDIGA:
Maybe Holley can clarify |\n| 7 | that. |\n| 8 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yeah. |\n| 9 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 10 | Q
I'm going to ask a long question.
I'm |\n| 11 | going to break it into parts. |\n| 12 | Mr. Kwok, are you obligated to pay back |\n| 13 | Golden Spring New York for all of the money that |\n| 14 | Golden Spring New York paid to lawyers on your |\n| 15 | behalf? |\n| 16 | A
Yes. |\n| 17 | Q
Is that agreement with Golden Spring New |\n| 18 | York in writing? |\n| 19 | A
Yes. |\n| 20 | Q
Is that the same written agreement you |\n| 21 | mentioned a few minutes ago? |\n| 22 | A
Yes. |\n| 23 | Q
Do you have more than one written |\n| 24 | agreement with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 25 | A
Yes. |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
46 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Q
What are your other written agreements |\n| 2 | with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 3 | A
In the past week, I had a case with Logan |\n| 4 | Cheng.
The settlement with Logan Cheng, the money |\n| 5 | from -- for the settlement is the money I borrow |\n| 6 | from Golden Spring New York. |\n| 7 | Q
Do you have any other written agreements |\n| 8 | with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 9 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 10 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a fee |\n| 11 | agreement with any of the attorneys who represent |\n| 12 | you in litigation? |\n| 13 | Can you -- can you answer, Mr. Kwok? |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Any agreement |\n| 15 | with -- can you repeat one more time? |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a -- any |\n| 18 | kind of a fee agreement with any of the lawyers who |\n| 19 | represent Mr. Kwok in litigation? |\n| 20 | A
I don't know. |\n| 21 | Q
Mr. Kwok, who represents you in the |\n| 22 | litigation you filed against UBS in London? |\n| 23 | A
Attorney -- attorney office in London. |\n| 24 | Q
What is the name? |\n| 25 | A
I don't remember completely about the |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 48 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 |\n|----|---------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | English name. |\n| 2 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a fee |\n| 3 | agreement with that attorney in London? |\n| 4 | A
There should be. |\n| 5 | MR. BALDIGA:
I'm sorry.
What was the |\n| 6 | answer? |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Should have. |\n| 8 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 9 | Q
Do you know if it does have enough -- have |\n| 10 | a fee agreement? |\n| 11 | A
I'm not sure. |\n| 12 | Q
Who is the person at Golden Spring New |\n| 13 | York who authorized payment of your litigation |\n| 14 | expenses? |\n| 15 | A
My son. |\n| 16 | Q
Does your son have to speak with anyone |\n| 17 | else in order to use Golden Spring New York money |\n| 18 | for your benefit? |\n| 19 | A
Yes. |\n| 20 | Q
Who does your son need to speak with? |\n| 21 | A
He needs to talk to my family member, |\n| 22 | which includes more than 100 family members, and |\n| 23 | that because they have a fund. |\n| 24 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
That -- the |\n| 25 | number is 181. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
48 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 2 | Q
Mr. Kwok, if your son wanted to give you |\n| 3 | \\$100, would he have to seek authority from someone |\n| 4 | at Golden Spring New York? |\n| 5 | A
I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q
When you say your son has to speak with |\n| 7 | someone at Golden Spring New York, how many people |\n| 8 | does he need to speak with? |\n| 9 | A
I don't know details. |\n| 10 | Q
With respect to the \\$8 million that Golden |\n| 11 | Spring New York is willing to loan you, did your son |\n| 12 | have to obtain consent of other people at Golden |\n| 13 | Spring New York for that transaction? |\n| 14 | A
I don't know. |\n| 15 | Q
Have you ever been to the office of Golden |\n| 16 | Spring New York in New York City? |\n| 17 | A
Yes. |\n| 18 | Q
How often do you go to the Golden Spring |\n| 19 | New York office in New York City? |\n| 20 | A
Not -- not fixed.
Sometimes I go there a |\n| 21 | few times a month.
Sometimes I haven't -- I haven't |\n| 22 | gone there for a few months. |\n| 23 | Q
When was the last time you went to the |\n| 24 | Golden Spring New York office? |\n| 25 | A
Yesterday. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
49 |\n| 1 | Q | Why did you go? |\n| 2 | A | For preparing today's meeting. |\n| 3 | Q | Did your son speak with Yanping Wang about |\n| 4 | | the \\$8 million loan? |\n| 5 | A | I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q | Did you negotiate the terms of the \\$8 |\n| 7 | | million loan from Golden Spring New York? |\n| 8 | A | No. |\n| 9 | Q | Who was the person who negotiated the \\$8 |\n| 10 | | million loan on your behalf? |\n| 11 | A | My attorney. |\n| 12 | Q | Which attorney? |\n| 13 | A | Aaron Mitchell. |\n| 14 | Q | Who did Attorney Aaron Mitchell negotiate |\n| 15 | | with at Golden Spring New York? |\n| 16 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 17 | one? | |\n| 18 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 19 | Q | Who did Attorney Aaron Mitchell negotiate |\n| 20 | | with at Golden Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A | I don't know.
My son. |\n| 22 | Q | Did you borrow the sum of \\$1 million from |\n| 23 | | Lamp Capital, LLC in February 2022? |\n| 24 | A | Yes. |\n| 25 | Q | Is that loan from Lamp Capital, LLC in |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 51 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 50 |\n|----|---------------|-------------------------------------------|----|\n| 1 | writing? | | |\n| 2 | A | No. | |\n| 3 | Q | What are the loan terms of the loan from | |\n| 4 | Lamp Capital? | | |\n| 5 | A | I don't know detail. | |\n| 6 | Q | Who are the members of Lamp Capital, LLC? | |\n| 7 | A | My son. | |\n| 8 | Q | Are there any other members of Lamp | |\n| 9 | Capital, LLC? | | |\n| 10 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 11 | Q | Who is the managing member of Lamp | |\n| 12 | Capital, LLC? | | |\n| 13 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 14 | Q | Who was the person at Lamp Capital who | |\n| 15 | | authorized the loan? | |\n| 16 | A | My son. | |\n| 17 | Q | What are the assets of Lamp Capital, LLC? | |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 19 | Q | What does Lamp Capital own? | |\n| 20 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 21 | Q | Have you ever funded Lamp Capital in any | |\n| 22 | way? | | |\n| 23 | A | No. | |\n| 24 | Q | Have you ever invested any money in Lamp | |\n| 25 | Capital, LLC? | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
51 |\n| 1 | A | No. |\n| 2 | Q | Why did Lamp Capital loan you the \\$1 |\n| 3 | | million and not Golden Spring New York? |\n| 4 | A | I don't know. |\n| 5 | Q | What is the source of the \\$1 million that |\n| 6 | | Lamp Capital loaned to you? |\n| 7 | A | I don't know. |\n| 8 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Why don't we take a five |\n| 9 | | minute break for the restroom?
We'll reconvene |\n| 10 | | actually, at 12:10. |\n| 11 | (Recess) | |\n| 12 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
We are back on the record |\n| 13 | | after a short break. |\n| 14 | | Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath. |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 16 | Q | Mr. Kwok, were you involved in the |\n| 17 | | selection of the lawyers who represent you in your |\n| 18 | action in London? | |\n| 19 | A | Yes. |\n| 20 | Q | Did your counsel in London request a |\n| 21 | retainer? | |\n| 22 | A | Yes. |\n| 23 | Q | And did you pay your counsel in London a |\n| 24 | retainer? | |\n| 25 | A | Yes. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | | Filed 07/25/23
of 134 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 53 |\n|---------------|-----------------|------|----------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------|---------|\n| | | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 52 |\n| 1 | Q | | How much? | | |\n| 2 | A | | 300,000 pound. | | |\n| 3 | Q | | | And when was that 300,000 pound retainer | |\n| 4 | paid? | | | | |\n| 5 | A | | Roughly two years ago. | | |\n| 6 | Q | | Who funded the retainer? | | |\n| 7 | A | | | My son helped to pay -- pay that. | |\n| 8 | Q | | | Did your son pay all of the retainer? | |\n| 9 | A | Yes. | | | |\n| 10 | Q | | | Did your son pay the retainer out of his | |\n| 11 | personal funds? | | | | |\n| 12 | A | | | Should be from the company, England. | |\n| 13 | Q | | | What was the name of the company who paid | |\n| 14 | the retainer? | | | | |\n| 15 | A | | I don't remember. | | |\n| 16 | Q | | | Did Golden Spring New York pay the | |\n| 17 | | | retainer to your London counsel? | | |\n| 18 | A | | | I don't remember details because other | |\n| 19 | | | | than the retainer and the other -- a few more | |\n| 20 | | | payments in -- you know, after. | | |\n| 21 | Q | | | Mr. Kwok, if you wanted to go buy a pair | |\n| 22 | | | | of shoes, how would you pay for a pair of shoes? | |\n| 23 | A | | | I will ask Golden Spring New York to pay | |\n| 24 | for it. | | | | |\n| 25 | Q | | | And how would that process work? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
53 |\n| 1 | A | And I will talk to the director and E Wa |\n| 2 | | Wang (ph) and ask her to contact -- talk to my son |\n| 3 | | and to pay for the shoes. |\n| 4 | Q | How does the shoe company get the money? |\n| 5 | The shoe store. | |\n| 6 | A | I don't know.
Usually, it's E Wa Wang and |\n| 7 | | communicate, because my English ability is not |\n| 8 | | capable to communicate. |\n| 9 | Q | If you went to a store, tried on shoes, |\n| 10 | | and wanted to take them home from the store, how |\n| 11 | | would you pay for the shoes? |\n| 12 | A | In the recent few years I basically never |\n| 13 | | bought a pair of shoes. |\n| 14 | Q | What was the last thing you paid for? |\n| 15 | A | Recently, I didn't go to buy anything. |\n| 16 | | MR. BALDIGA:
I'm sorry.
Could you repeat |\n| 17 | that? | |\n| 18 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Recently, I |\n| 19 | | didn't go to buy anything. |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 21 | Q | My question wasn't recently.
My question |\n| 22 | | was, what was the last thing that you purchased? |\n| 23 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 24 | Q | Do you ever eat in a restaurant? |\n| 25 | A | Recent years, I didn't. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 55 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
54 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Q
Before COVID 19, did you eat in |\n| 2 | restaurants? |\n| 3 | A
Very rare because I was afraid to be |\n| 4 | killed by the people behind me, because I was always |\n| 5 | in the process getting chased. |\n| 6 | Q
When you ate in a restaurant, were you the |\n| 7 | person who paid the bill? |\n| 8 | A
I don't have money to pay, so that's why I |\n| 9 | don't go there. |\n| 10 | Q
Mr. Kwok, if you wanted to go buy a cup of |\n| 11 | coffee, how would you pay for it? |\n| 12 | A
I never bought a cup of coffee.
I was -- |\n| 13 | I'm afraid the people behind me might poison me in |\n| 14 | the coffee. |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, if you wanted to buy water, |\n| 16 | you're out and about and you want to buy water, how |\n| 17 | would you pay for it? |\n| 18 | A
Well, since 2107, I don't -- I didn't go |\n| 19 | out to buy water outside. |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
There was a |\n| 21 | (indiscernible) difference in the nuance. |\n| 22 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you -- can |\n| 23 | you repeat it -- can you repeat -- |\n| 24 | THE WITNESS:
Since 2017, I never went |\n| 25 | outside, walk around, and then buy water or coffee. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
55 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 2 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you have any interest in any |\n| 3 | mutual funds? | |\n| 4 | A | No. |\n| 5 | Q | Do you own any bonds? |\n| 6 | A | No. |\n| 7 | Q | Do you own any publically traded stock in |\n| 8 | any company? | |\n| 9 | A | No. |\n| 10 | Q | Do you own any cars? |\n| 11 | A | No. |\n| 12 | Q | Do you have access to any cars? |\n| 13 | A | Yes. |\n| 14 | Q | And whose cars do you have access to? |\n| 15 | A | My son's and Golden Springs. |\n| 16 | Q | Does Golden Spring provide you with a car |\n| 17 | | that's yours to use? |\n| 18 | A | Yes. |\n| 19 | Q | What kind of car is that? |\n| 20 | A | Maybach |\n| 21 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Maybach. |\n| 22 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Huh? |\n| 23 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Maybach. |\n| 24 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Maybach?
Okay. |\n| 25 | | I don't know the name of it. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
56 |\n| 1 | | THE WITNESS:
Maybach. |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 3 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you have a driver's license? |\n| 4 | A | I have a Hong Kong's driver's license. |\n| 5 | Q | Do you drive in the United States? |\n| 6 | A | Almost no. |\n| 7 | Q | When you do drive, whose car do you drive? |\n| 8 | A | Golden Spring's. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you keep a car at your Greenwich |\n| 10 | residence? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | And what car is that? |\n| 13 | A | Maybach. |\n| 14 | Q | Do you own any aircraft? |\n| 15 | A | No. |\n| 16 | Q | Have you ever owned any aircraft? |\n| 17 | A | Before, yes. |\n| 18 | Q | When did you own aircraft? |\n| 19 | A | Probably 2010 to 2016. |\n| 20 | Q | How many air craft did you own? |\n| 21 | A | One. |\n| 22 | Q | And what was it? |\n| 23 | A | Airbus 319.
319. |\n| 24 | Q | And what happened to the Airbus 319? |\n| 25 | A | It was confiscated by UBS and the Chinese |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 58 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
57 |\n|----|---------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Communist Party. |\n| 2 | Q
Okay.
Do you own any water craft? |\n| 3 | A
No. |\n| 4 | Q
Who owns the yacht known as the Lady May? |\n| 5 | A
My daughter. |\n| 6 | Q
Does your daughter own the Lady May in her |\n| 7 | personal name? |\n| 8 | A
Should be from a company. |\n| 9 | Q
And what is the name of the company that |\n| 10 | owns the Lady May? |\n| 11 | A
I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q
Where is the Lady May currently? |\n| 13 | A
I don't know. |\n| 14 | Q
Since the bankruptcy filing, have you |\n| 15 | asked your daughter to return the Lady May to New |\n| 16 | York? |\n| 17 | A
I did ask her and asked her to talk to her |\n| 18 | attorney to return the boat back to New York. |\n| 19 | Q
When did you have that conversation? |\n| 20 | A
Last month, after the court date.
After |\n| 21 | met with you. |\n| 22 | Q
And what did your daughter say? |\n| 23 | A
She said that she would talk to her |\n| 24 | attorney and then talk to my attorney. |\n| 25 | Q
Did your daughter agree to have the Lady |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 59 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | May return to New York? |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | A
She was not willing to talk to me in any |\n| 3 | detail.
She want -- she wanted to talk to her |\n| 4 | attorney. |\n| 5 | Q
Did your daughter say no to your request |\n| 6 | that she return the Lady May to New York? |\n| 7 | A
No, he didn't -- she didn't. |\n| 8 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
The question was |\n| 9 | not completely interpreted. |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I know, but she |\n| 11 | -- she already -- he already answered and -- |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
Wait until he finishes. |\n| 13 | THE WITNESS:
No, he -- no. |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own or have an interest |\n| 16 | in any trust? |\n| 17 | A
No. |\n| 18 | Q
Are you the beneficiary of any trusts? |\n| 19 | A
No. |\n| 20 | Q
This is a long question.
Mr. Kwok, where |\n| 21 | is the \\$12,000 check paid to you in connection with |\n| 22 | your lawsuit against Baosheng Guo? |\n| 23 | A
It's in attorney's escrow account. |\n| 24 | Q
What is the name of the attorney who is |\n| 25 | holding the check? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 60 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
59 |\n|----|---------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | A
I can't pronounce the attorney's name |\n| 2 | completely. |\n| 3 | Q
What is the attorney's first name? |\n| 4 | A
I cannot -- I'm not able to read out the - |\n| 5 | - the pronounce his name. |\n| 6 | Q
Is the attorney who's holding the check |\n| 7 | the same attorney who represented you in that |\n| 8 | lawsuit? |\n| 9 | A
It should be. |\n| 10 | Q
On your Schedule A-B, you did not disclose |\n| 11 | that \\$12,000 check.
Why? |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
Wait for a question.
No. |\n| 13 | Could he interpret that? |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 15 | Q
Why did you not disclose that \\$12,000 |\n| 16 | check? |\n| 17 | A
My attorney thinks because the money is |\n| 18 | not in my account, so I'm not allowed to -- we're |\n| 19 | not -- I'm not supposed to disclose that. |\n| 20 | Q
Okay.
Mr. Kwok, do you have any patents? |\n| 21 | A
No. |\n| 22 | Q
Do you have any copyrights? |\n| 23 | A
No. |\n| 24 | Q
Do you have any intellectual property of |\n| 25 | any kind? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 61 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | of 134 | | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 A No. MR. BALDIGA: Excuse me. Holley, I'm not sure if you're going to come back to it, but there is a reference to the \\$12,000. MS. CLAIBORN: I did see that. MR. BALDIGA: Oh, you said he didn't disclose it. MS. CLAIBORN: He did not. It's not in response to the questions on Schedule A-B. MR. BALDIGA: It's right there. MS. CLAIBORN: We can disagree about whether or not it's disclosed, but it's my position that it's not disclosed. I understand you might take a different position. BY MS. CLAIBORN: Q Mr. Kwok, do you own any interest in a company called Ace Decade Holdings Limited? A Yes. Q What is the nature of your ownership interest in Ace Decade Holdings Limited? A So I have the interest and ask for UBS to pay back \\$500 million. That kind of interest. Q Are you the only legal owner of Ace Decade Holdings Limited? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Are you the\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
61 |\n| 1 | only -- can you repeat that question? |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 3 | Q
Are you the only legal owner of Ace |\n| 4 | Decades? |\n| 5 | A
I am a legal representing owner. |\n| 6 | Q
Are there any other owners of Ace Decade? |\n| 7 | A
No. |\n| 8 | Q
When did you become an owner of Ace Decade |\n| 9 | Holdings Limited? |\n| 10 | A
At the end of 2014. |\n| 11 | Q
This is a long question.
In your |\n| 12 | litigation in London against UBS, you are an |\n| 13 | individual plaintiff.
What is the basis for your |\n| 14 | claim as an individual plaintiff? |\n| 15 | A
Because I'm the 100 percent representative |\n| 16 | for Ace Decade. |\n| 17 | Q
In the litigation against UBS in London, |\n| 18 | there is an allegation that Ace Decade gave \\$500 |\n| 19 | million to Dawn State Limited.
Where did Ace Decade |\n| 20 | get the \\$500 million? |\n| 21 | A
I loan from my family. |\n| 22 | Q
Did you borrow money from your family and |\n| 23 | give it to Ace Decade? |\n| 24 | A
Yes. |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I don't think that was -- |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
62 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | let's start over, because I don't think that was -- |\n| 2 | that was -- |\n| 3 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yeah, I thought |\n| 4 | that it was -- |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- that was the question, |\n| 6 | because it didn't involve Dawn State -- |\n| 7 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yes. |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- so I'm going to start |\n| 9 | over. |\n| 10 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
Where did you get the money to give to Ace |\n| 12 | Decade, the 500 million? |\n| 13 | MR. BALDIGA:
I don't think he said he did |\n| 14 | that.
I think he said his family did that, but you |\n| 15 | can ask that, but I -- |\n| 16 | THE WITNESS:
From my family. |\n| 17 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 18 | Q
Who specifically in your family gave you |\n| 19 | money that you then gave to Ace Decade? |\n| 20 | A
John Way (ph). |\n| 21 | Q
Who is John Way? |\n| 22 | A
A member from my family. |\n| 23 | Q
Is he a relative of yours? |\n| 24 | A
It's my older brother's cousin or -- |\n| 25 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Son-in-law. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 64 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
63 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Son-in-law? |\n| 2 | Okay.
Sorry. |\n| 3 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 4 | Q
On your Schedule A-B, you list a possible |\n| 5 | malpractice claim against Boise Schiller.
Can you |\n| 6 | please explain what that is? |\n| 7 | A
He was the one -- he was the one |\n| 8 | represented me in New York to have a lawsuit against |\n| 9 | UBS.
He gave a lot of forced documents to the Court |\n| 10 | and without my permission.
He also threatened my |\n| 11 | family.
He also threaten myself after drinking.
He |\n| 12 | brought a lot of loss to us, including providing any |\n| 13 | English/Chinese translated documents to me before |\n| 14 | present them to the -- to the lawyer, or to the |\n| 15 | judge.
That's why I -- that's why we sue him. |\n| 16 | Q
Have you hired an attorney to represent |\n| 17 | you in that malpractice action? |\n| 18 | A
My son is in the process of dealing with |\n| 19 | that. |\n| 20 | Q
Why is your son talking to lawyers about |\n| 21 | your malpractice claim? |\n| 22 | A
Because I need to borrow money from him. |\n| 23 | Q
Has a lawyer been selected? |\n| 24 | A
Not yet. |\n| 25 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own an interest in any |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
64 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | company aside from Ace Decade? |\n| 2 | A
No, but the -- I own the Bravo Luck, the |\n| 3 | apartment, only for a few months, some of the |\n| 4 | interest.
And because the apartment is a co-op, so |\n| 5 | they used my name to buy the apartment after I -- |\n| 6 | after we bought apartment, and then we returned the |\n| 7 | stock interest back. |\n| 8 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
I'm sorry.
He must |\n| 9 | have spoken for 30, 40 seconds.
Clearly said more |\n| 10 | than that.
Is there a more fulsome translation? |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Did I miss |\n| 12 | anything? |\n| 13 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Let me see if I can follow |\n| 14 | up. |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 16 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own, currently, an |\n| 17 | interest in Bravo Luck? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own an interest in any |\n| 20 | limited liability company? |\n| 21 | A
No. |\n| 22 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own an interest in any |\n| 23 | partnership? |\n| 24 | A
I used to own the plane company called the |\n| 25 | Orange or Shiny Time, but that was before and |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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65 |\n| 1 | doesn't exist anymore. |\n| 2 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you currently own an interest |\n| 3 | in any partnership? |\n| 4 | A
No. |\n| 5 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you currently own an interest |\n| 6 | in any joint venture? |\n| 7 | A
No. |\n| 8 | Q
Other than Ace Decade, do you own an |\n| 9 | interest in any other company right now? |\n| 10 | A
No.
I only owned the Orange and Shiny |\n| 11 | Time before, but not right now. |\n| 12 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a |\n| 13 | security interest in any of your litigation? |\n| 14 | A
I owe them money. |\n| 15 | Q
Have you granted to Golden Spring New |\n| 16 | York, any interest in any of your assets, anything |\n| 17 | that you own? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
So if you were to win a lawsuit against |\n| 20 | Golden Spring -- sorry.
Wrong name.
So if you were |\n| 21 | to win a lawsuit against UBS, would any of the money |\n| 22 | that you win have to be paid to Golden Spring? |\n| 23 | A
Yes. |\n| 24 | Q
And how much would that be? |\n| 25 | A
Before it was 2,200 1 million, or -- |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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66 |\n| 1 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
21 million. |\n| 2 | THE WITNESS:
21 million.
21 million and |\n| 3 | plus now.
Probably it's about 300 million.
30 |\n| 4 | million.
Or 30 million.
Yeah. |\n| 5 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 6 | Q
Is there a document that says that any |\n| 7 | litigation winnings you receive need to be paid to |\n| 8 | Golden Spring? |\n| 9 | A
Yes. |\n| 10 | Q
What is the name of that document? |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I'm going to |\n| 12 | ask him to repeat it. |\n| 13 | I didn't get it.
I just ask him to break |\n| 14 | it down, then I didn't hear what -- |\n| 15 | THE WITNESS:
I have a case in DC.
There |\n| 16 | is a attorney office representing me for political |\n| 17 | asylum and it was attacked by the cyber attack from |\n| 18 | the Chinese Communists, and so they -- the attorney |\n| 19 | office was closed, and they gave my personal |\n| 20 | information to the communist party, and then I sue |\n| 21 | them.
And that litigation fee, attorney fee, came |\n| 22 | from Golden Spring New York. |\n| 23 | I ask for the settlement for 50,000 -- \\$50 |\n| 24 | million.
If I won that money, I will give the money |\n| 25 | back to Golden Springs for the money they supported |\n\nof 134\n\n| 67 |\n|----|\n| |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
67 |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | me for attorney fees. |\n| 2 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Mr. Kwok did not |\n| 3 | say settlement.
Mr. Kwok just say, for a claim, not |\n| 4 | a settlement. |\n| 5 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
You're asking |\n| 6 | for \\$50 million.
Yeah.
He ask for \\$50 million for |\n| 7 | that lawsuit, and if he win -- if he wins the money, |\n| 8 | then he will return the money back to the Golden |\n| 9 | Spring New York. |\n| 10 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
My question was, what was the name of the |\n| 12 | document under which you would be repaying Golden |\n| 13 | Spring for your litigation? |\n| 14 | A
The document is the document I -- |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 16 | that one? |\n| 17 | THE WITNESS:
The agreement is -- it's the |\n| 18 | agreement, I borrowed the money from Golden Spring |\n| 19 | New York to sue the attorney office. |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 21 | Q
And what is the name of the agreement? |\n| 22 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 23 | Q
Is it a promissory note? |\n| 24 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 25 | Q
Is it a contract? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
68 |\n| 1 | A | I don't remember clearly. |\n| 2 | Q | Who prepared the document? |\n| 3 | A | Attorney. |\n| 4 | Q | What was the name of the attorney who |\n| 5 | | prepared the document? |\n| 6 | A | Melissa. |\n| 7 | Q | What is Melissa's last name? |\n| 8 | A | I don't know. |\n| 9 | Q | Did Melissa the attorney represent you in |\n| 10 | | drafting that document? |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | And who represented Golden Spring in |\n| 13 | | drafting that document? |\n| 14 | A | I don't know. |\n| 15 | Q | Did Golden Spring have any attorney? |\n| 16 | A | Yes. |\n| 17 | Q | You just don't remember who it was? |\n| 18 | A | They have a lot of attorneys. |\n| 19 | Q | Is there more than one written agreement |\n| 20 | | under which you owe money to Golden Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A | Yes. |\n| 22 | Q | How many agreements are there? |\n| 23 | A | Kind of two or three, or three or four.
I |\n| 24 | | don't remember clearly. |\n| 25 | Q | And does someone keep track of the money |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 70 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
69 |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | that you borrow from Golden Spring New York? |\n| 2 | A
My attorney will write it down.
We record |\n| 3 | it. |\n| 4 | Q
What's the name of that attorney? |\n| 5 | A
Aaron Mitchell. |\n| 6 | Q
Did you say Aaron Mitchell? |\n| 7 | A
Oh, yes. |\n| 8 | Q
And how does Aaron Mitchell keep track of |\n| 9 | the monies that you borrow from Golden Spring New |\n| 10 | York? |\n| 11 | A
In detail, I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q
Does anyone who is employed by Golden |\n| 13 | Spring New York keep track of the money that you |\n| 14 | borrow from Golden Spring New York? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Have you ever seen a document from |\n| 17 | Attorney Aaron Mitchell showing how much you owe to |\n| 18 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 19 | A
This is the thing I -- it's something |\n| 20 | between me and my attorney I shouldn't answer. |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
Can I -- I mean -- |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I don't think the question |\n| 23 | involves -- |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
You can -- |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- a privileged answer. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 71 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
70 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | MR. BALDIGA:
That's -- give me a second. |\n| 2 | You could answer that last question yes or no, so if |\n| 3 | you ask again, I think he will say yes or no, and |\n| 4 | then we can take it step by step. |\n| 5 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 6 | Q
Have you ever seen a document prepared by |\n| 7 | Attorney Mitchell that shows you how much money you |\n| 8 | have borrowed from Golden Spring? |\n| 9 | MR. BALDIGA:
Wait.
Wait, my instruction |\n| 10 | needs to be interpreted. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What? |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can you -- |\n| 13 | MR. BALDIGA:
You need to instruct -- |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Just please state it and |\n| 15 | he'll reinterpret. |\n| 16 | MR. BALDIGA:
Please, tell the witness |\n| 17 | what -- I am telling the witness he may answer yes |\n| 18 | or no only. |\n| 19 | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 20 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I have other questions, but |\n| 21 | given the hour of the day, I thought that we could |\n| 22 | take a short break and then reconvene with creditors |\n| 23 | being given the opportunity to ask questions. |\n| 24 | I suggest we reconvene at 1:15. |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Is that okay? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
of 134 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 72 |\n|---------------|--------------------|-----------------------------------------------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 71 |\n| 1 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay. | Thank you. | We'll |\n| 2 | reconvene at 1:15. | | | |\n| 3 | | (Recess.) | | |\n| 4 | | MS. CLAIBORN: | The recording has been | |\n| 5 | reconvened. | We are back in session after a short | | |\n| 6 | | break and Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath. | | |\n| 7 | | And that this point, Mr. Wolman has some | | |\n| 8 | | questions for you, Mr. Kwok. | | |\n| 9 | | EXAMINATION BY MR. WOLMAN: | | |\n| 10 | Q | Good afternoon, Mr. Kwok. | | |\n| 11 | | On March 21st I was asking you some | | |\n| 12 | | questions about a prior deposition, specifically | | |\n| 13 | | about the times you had invoked your rights under | | |\n| 14 | | the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. | | |\n| 15 | | On April 1st, 2021, were you being | | |\n| 16 | | investigated for any crime? | | |\n| 17 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | April 21st? | |\n| 18 | | MR. WOLMAN: | April 1st, 2021. | |\n| 19 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | Can you repeat | |\n| 20 | | that question, sir? | | |\n| 21 | Q | Were you being investigated for any crime? | | |\n| 22 | A | From SET -- American SET and the | | |\n| 23 | | investigating GTV and they can communicate with our | | |\n| 24 | attorney. | | | |\n| 25 | Q | Are you referring to the Securities and | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 73 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 Exchange Commission? A Yes. Q And what exactly were they investigating? MR. BALDIGA: Objection. I need to ask whether this would reveal privileged information. Would your answer to the last question be information from your attorneys? THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: Can I just -- THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: She wants to help. THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: Because he's not -- MS. CLAIBORN: I think you should just try again. Mr. Baldiga, maybe you can just repeat yourself and Mr. Jack, you can try again. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Can you repeat what you want to say? MR. BALDIGA: Mr. Wolman asked you what you were being investigated for. Is the information that you know, was that provided to you by your attorneys? THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. BALDIGA: And to answer the question would you have to divulge what you were told by your\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 74 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 attorneys? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Have to be what? Divulged? MR. BALDIGA: Would you have to say what you were told by your attorneys? THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. BALDIGA: Then I instruct the witness not to answer on the basis of the attorney/client privilege. MR. WOLMAN: That is not attorney/client information. MR. BALDIGA: Hold on. Let it be interpreted. MR. WOLMAN: Information learned from an attorney that is not specifically a communication for the purpose of giving advice or receiving information is not privileged information. If your attorneys says the sky is blue, that is not a privileged communication. MR. BALDIGA: His is arguing with me. There is not question to you. MR. WOLMAN: Mr. Baldiga, will you continue to instruct your client to improperly invoke the attorney/client privilege?\n\nMR. BALDIGA: I'll instruct on a question\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 75 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
74 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | by question basis. |\n| 2 | MR. WOLMAN:
And this question, will you |\n| 3 | maintain the instruction? |\n| 4 | Mr. Kwok, are you refusing to answer my |\n| 5 | question? |\n| 6 | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 7 | MR. WOLMAN:
And on what basis are you |\n| 8 | refusing to answer my question? |\n| 9 | MR. BALDIGA:
On the basis of instruction |\n| 10 | from counsel on account of attorney/client |\n| 11 | privilege. |\n| 12 | THE WITNESS:
Because I can't answer the |\n| 13 | question because of the privilege between the |\n| 14 | attorney and me. |\n| 15 | BY MR. WOLMAN: |\n| 16 | Q
Have you been formally charged by the |\n| 17 | Securities and Exchange Commission? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
Has the Securities and Exchange Commission |\n| 20 | closed its investigation of you? |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
I have to ask again, you can |\n| 22 | answer that yes or no, if you know. |\n| 23 | A
No. |\n| 24 | Q
Has the Securities and Exchange Commission |\n| 25 | brought any charges against GTV? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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75 |\n| 1 | A
I don't know. |\n| 2 | Q
Have you been in the past five years |\n| 3 | subject to an audit by the U.S. Internal Revenue |\n| 4 | Service? |\n| 5 | A
No. |\n| 6 | Q
In the last five years have you been |\n| 7 | subject to an audit by the New York State taxing |\n| 8 | authority? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | Q
When did you become a resident of |\n| 11 | Connecticut?
On what date? |\n| 12 | A
The beginning of March, 2020, roughly. |\n| 13 | Q
To be clear, you say you were a resident |\n| 14 | of Connecticut in March of 2020? |\n| 15 | A
Yes. |\n| 16 | Q
So how come in Mr. Cheng, my client's, |\n| 17 | lawsuit against you you signed a statement under |\n| 18 | oath indicating that you were a resident of the |\n| 19 | Sherry Netherlands Hotel? |\n| 20 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 21 | that, counsel? |\n| 22 | Q
If you were a resident of Connecticut in |\n| 23 | March of 2020, you signed a statement under oath in |\n| 24 | Mr. Cheng's lawsuit against you that you resided at |\n| 25 | the Sherry Netherlands Hotel. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 77 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | of 134 | | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 A I don't 100 percent live in Connecticut, but sometimes I live in New York also. Q When did you start living in Connecticut more than 50 percent of the time? A Since March, 2020. Q You had some assets you claim seized by China, correct? A It's not mine. It's from my family. It's my family's. Q Have you ever had assets seized by China? A You're talking about under my name? Q Yes. A No. Q All right. In 2010, what was your personal net worth? A No. Q That wasn't a yes or no question. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Can I repeat your question again? MR. WOLMAN: Yes. Q In 2010 what was your personal net worth? A I didn't have any property. Q Have you ever had property in your name over \\$1 million and by that I include where you\n\nowned an interest in a company that interest,\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 therefore, contributes to your work? A Before 2000, yes. Q Okay. What was your net worth in 1999? A I never calculate in detail. Q What would you estimate it as? A Roughly around 100 million. Q And what happened to that \\$100 million worth of assets? A Because in 2000 I got a Hong Kong passport and in China and they don't allow me to have any property, asset. Q Have you abandoned all claims to whatever assets you had in 1999? A Yes. Q Why have you abandoned your claims? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Abandoned what? Q Your claim to those assets? A Because I was not allowed to have any assets in China. Q If China changed its policy, would you have any right or ability to get those assets back? MR. BALDIGA: Objection. If you know, you can answer. A I don't know. Q What was your largest asset in 1999?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 79 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
78 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | A
There was the assets from a hotel, equity |\n| 2 | interest of a hotel in China. |\n| 3 | Q
And who holds that interest now? |\n| 4 | A
Chinese Community Party. |\n| 5 | Q
Is it held in the name of the Party? |\n| 6 | A
China only has one autocrat government, |\n| 7 | the party, and our family's assets were taken -- |\n| 8 | were seized by them. |\n| 9 | Q
How did your son become wealthy enough to |\n| 10 | fund Golden Spring and Lamp Capital? |\n| 11 | A
Because he started very early to do |\n| 12 | investment and also bring brand names to China. |\n| 13 | Q
Where did he get the money for his |\n| 14 | investment? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Ms. Claiborn asked you about agreements |\n| 17 | with Golden Spring and you could not identify who |\n| 18 | the lawyer was for Golden Spring.
Do you remember |\n| 19 | that? |\n| 20 | A
True. |\n| 21 | Q
I'd like to try to refresh -- to ask you |\n| 22 | potentially to refresh your memory was it a lawyer |\n| 23 | named Daniel? |\n| 24 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He's asking |\n| 25 | Daniel? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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79 |\n| 1 | Q
Yes, Daniel Pedolsky. |\n| 2 | A
Yes, probably and he used to be Golden |\n| 3 | Spring attorney and my personal attorney. |\n| 4 | Q
Did you execute a waiver of conflict of |\n| 5 | interest with Mr. Pedolsky? |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 7 | that? |\n| 8 | Q
Did you execute a waiver of conflict of |\n| 9 | interest with Attorney Daniel Pedolsky? |\n| 10 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 11 | Q
You mentioned two or three -- or three or |\n| 12 | four agreements with Golden Spring. Can you identify |\n| 13 | each of those agreements? |\n| 14 | A
I'm not sure. |\n| 15 | Q
Can you describe the purpose of each of |\n| 16 | those agreements? |\n| 17 | A
That loan from Golden Spring is to have a |\n| 18 | settlement with Logan Cheng. |\n| 19 | Q
And did you take out a loan to pay the |\n| 20 | lawyers to sue Logan Cheng? |\n| 21 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 22 | Q
And what were the other agreements, other |\n| 23 | than with Mr. Cheng? |\n| 24 | A
From D.C. -- the attorney's office from |\n| 25 | D.C. collect (indiscernible)
I don't remember the |\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 name. MR. WOLMAN: All right. Thank you and this time I have to go but thank you. I'll try to dial in. MS. CLAIBORN: Thank you. Can I ask whoever is on the line if they could mute themselves, because they can hear you typing. All right. Who else would like to ask questions? Mr. Harbach. Go ahead, Mr. Harbach. MR. HARBACH: Thank you. For the record, I'm David Harbach with O'Melveny and Meyers and I represent PAACS. EXAMINATION BY MR. HARBACH: Q Mr. Kwok, I'd like to ask some clarifying questions based on questions that Ms. Claiborn asked you today. Earlier today she asked you if you owned any foreign currency and you said no. She also asked you if you owned any digital currency and you said no. My question is have you ever ordered or directed the purchase of either foreign currency or digital currency on behalf of any entity?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 82 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
81 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 2 | that? |\n| 3 | MR. HARBACH:
Sure. |\n| 4 | Q
My question is whether you have ordered or |\n| 5 | directed the purchase of any foreign currency or any |\n| 6 | digital currency on behalf of any entity? |\n| 7 | A
What you mean direct? |\n| 8 | Q
Have you directed anyone to purchase |\n| 9 | foreign currency or digital currency? |\n| 10 | A
No. |\n| 11 | Q
Ms. Claiborn asked you a couple of |\n| 12 | questions about access to credit cards and debit |\n| 13 | cards. And I want to make sure that we have your |\n| 14 | answer clear, because she asked you not whether you |\n| 15 | had any credit cards but whether you had any access |\n| 16 | to credit cards. I want to make sure that you |\n| 17 | understand the difference. |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: He's just asking |\n| 19 | why you want to represent Ms. Holley's asked |\n| 20 | questions. |\n| 21 | MR. HARBACH:
I'm just trying to remind |\n| 22 | you of a question she asked you earlier today, sir. |\n| 23 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't |\n| 24 | understand the question. |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Mr. Baldiga's right. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 83 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
82 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | There's not a question pending. |\n| 2 | Q
The question is do you understand the |\n| 3 | difference between having a credit card and having |\n| 4 | access to a credit card? |\n| 5 | A
I believe I don't have. |\n| 6 | Q
You don't understand the difference? |\n| 7 | A
I don't know much. |\n| 8 | Q
Okay.
Well, let me give you an example. |\n| 9 | Let's talk about the Maybach. |\n| 10 | I believe that you represented to us today |\n| 11 | that you have access to the Maybach for |\n| 12 | transportation.
Is that correct? |\n| 13 | A
Yes. |\n| 14 | Q
But I believe it's also your position that |\n| 15 | you do not own the Maybach.
Isn't that right? |\n| 16 | A
Yes. |\n| 17 | Q
In other words, your position is the |\n| 18 | Maybach is not yours, right? |\n| 19 | A
Yes. |\n| 20 | Q
Okay.
So I use that example to illustrate |\n| 21 | the example between owning something and having |\n| 22 | access to something.
Does that help you?
Do you |\n| 23 | understand the difference? |\n| 24 | A
Now I understand you. |\n| 25 | Q
Okay.
Thank you.
So returning to the |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
83 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | question about credit cards and debit cards.
Do you |\n| 2 | have access to any credit cards or debit cards, |\n| 3 | whether or not they are yours? |\n| 4 | A
I don't understand the difference what he |\n| 5 | means, access like if I use it myself or if I have |\n| 6 | somebody else use it. |\n| 7 | Q
Well, let's take those one at a time. |\n| 8 | Let's begin with using it yourself.
Has any member |\n| 9 | of your family ever provided you a credit card or a |\n| 10 | credit card number to use for yourself? |\n| 11 | A
I never used. |\n| 12 | Q
The other example you mentioned was |\n| 13 | perhaps a member of your family using a credit card |\n| 14 | on your behalf.
Is that something that has |\n| 15 | happened? |\n| 16 | A
What do you mean represent me to use? |\n| 17 | Q
I'm asking about whether to your knowledge |\n| 18 | any member of your family has ever used a credit |\n| 19 | card or a debit card to purchase things for you? |\n| 20 | A
My son, my daughter, my wife.
They all |\n| 21 | have credit card to buy things for me. |\n| 22 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
The witness did |\n| 23 | not say that, use the credit card to buy things for |\n| 24 | me.
The witness said that my son, my wife bought |\n| 25 | things for me. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 85 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
84 |\n|----|------------------|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, they used |\n| 2 | | their card and they both -- they all have it.
They |\n| 3 | | all have the cards.
That's what he said. |\n| 4 | | (Repeats interpretation) |\n| 5 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yes, I did it |\n| 6 | right. | |\n| 7 | | THE WITNESS:
And so my wife and my son |\n| 8 | | and my daughter have their own cards and also other |\n| 9 | | family members use their cards to buy things for me. |\n| 10 | Q | Is that ever at your direction? |\n| 11 | A | No. |\n| 12 | Q | Never. |\n| 13 | A | No. |\n| 14 | Q | Is it at your request? |\n| 15 | A | No. |\n| 16 | Q | Is Yan Ping Wang, the same as Yvette Wang? |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | Earlier Ms. Claiborn asked you about |\n| 19 | | Golden Spring Hong Kong. |\n| 20 | | You told her that your son owns it.
Do |\n| 21 | you recall that? | |\n| 22 | A | Yes. |\n| 23 | Q | My question for you is since when has your |\n| 24 | | son owned Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 25 | A | I don't know. |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 Q Has anyone else besides your son ever owned an interest in Golden Spring Hong Kong? A I don't remember. Q You also said that you didn't remember whether you were ever a corporate officer of Golden Spring Hong Kong? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Can you repeat that one? Q You also said that you did not remember whether you were ever a corpora officer of Golden Spring Hong Kong? Does that mean that it is possible that you were and you're just not certain? A I don't remember. Q Ms. Claiborn asked you in a few different ways about whether you know how Golden Spring New York is funded or makes money. Since when has Golden Spring been paying your personal living expenses? A 2015. Q So six or seven years approximately? A Since 2015 and that there was a person called Bruno Wu from Mainland China and called my family, my son, daughter and wife and so since then I start spending money coming from Golden Spring New York. Case 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 Page 86 of 134\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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86 |\n| 1 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't think |\n| 2 | the witness says some. |\n| 3 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What? |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't think |\n| 5 | the witness said some. |\n| 6 | THE WITNESS:
Not including the son that |\n| 7 | they caught, my wife and daughter and a lot of my |\n| 8 | family members, but not my son. |\n| 9 | Q
So approximately six or seven years that |\n| 10 | Golden Spring has been paying your personal |\n| 11 | expenses.
Is that right? |\n| 12 | A
Yes. |\n| 13 | Q
During those six or seven years did you |\n| 14 | never discuss with any of your family members where |\n| 15 | the money was coming from? |\n| 16 | A
Because a lot of my family members were |\n| 17 | caught by -- were arrested by your client, Bruno Wu, |\n| 18 | and so I have no communication. I cannot communicate |\n| 19 | with him. |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Not exactly. The |\n| 21 | partner of PAACS -- the partner who the counsel was |\n| 22 | represented, PAACS -- partner of PAACS -- |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't know. |\n| 24 | He didn't mention anything about PAACS. |\n| 25 | THE WITNESS:
So it's the other attorney |\n\nof 134\n\n| Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | |\n|-----------------------------|--|--|\n|-----------------------------|--|--|\n\n| 1 | representing the client, Bruno Wu, arrested a lot of |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | your family members.
Your client's past partner, |\n| 3 | one of the partners, (indiscernible)
Bruno Wu and |\n| 4 | arrested a lot of your family members so you can't |\n| 5 | communicate with them. |\n| 6 | Q
At any time since 2015 have you been in |\n| 7 | communication with your daughter, or your wife, or |\n| 8 | your son? |\n| 9 | A
Yes. |\n| 10 | Q
At any time that you've been in |\n| 11 | communication with any of those three individuals |\n| 12 | did you ever ask them about where Golden Spring's |\n| 13 | money was coming from? |\n| 14 | A
Yes, I asked. |\n| 15 | Q
And who did you ask? |\n| 16 | A
I asked all three of them. |\n| 17 | Q
And what did they say? |\n| 18 | A
They told me because I was in the position |\n| 19 | of being chased so don't ask our own financial |\n| 20 | information.
Don't ask me for anything and we will |\n| 21 | help you to -- we will help you as much as we can. |\n| 22 | Q
When was that? |\n| 23 | A
After 2017. |\n| 24 | Q
How long after 2017? |\n| 25 | A
I don't remember. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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88 |\n| 1 | Q
And when you had this conversation with |\n| 2 | your family were the three of them together or where |\n| 3 | these separate conversations? |\n| 4 | A
Separate. |\n| 5 | Q
And each of the three of them said more or |\n| 6 | less the same thing? |\n| 7 | A
Similar. |\n| 8 | Q
So I want to make sure I have this |\n| 9 | correct.
You asked each of them where Golden |\n| 10 | Springs money was coming from and each of them said |\n| 11 | to you don't ask me about that because -- finish the |\n| 12 | sentence for me. |\n| 13 | A
So you are making a story I don't |\n| 14 | understand. |\n| 15 | Q
I'm trying to ask you to help me |\n| 16 | understand.
I'm trying to understand the reason why |\n| 17 | your family members told you not to ask why your |\n| 18 | family members told you not to ask about where |\n| 19 | Golden Spring got the money. |\n| 20 | MR. BALDIGA:
Let him ask you a question. |\n| 21 | Q
Please tell me why each of your family |\n| 22 | members told you not to ask them about where Golden |\n| 23 | Spring money came from? |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
If you know. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
You're asking |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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89 |\n| 1 | to object the question? |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
I objected. |\n| 3 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, you |\n| 4 | objected. |\n| 5 | MR. BALDIGA:
I permit him to answer if he |\n| 6 | knows. |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 8 | THE WITNESS:
My daughter and wife were |\n| 9 | arrested by his partner and got released 2017 and |\n| 10 | released to New York.
They were tortured |\n| 11 | tremendously by communist party.
The person |\n| 12 | tortured them is this attorney's partner.
They all |\n| 13 | have their own attorneys.
They told me don't ask me |\n| 14 | or communicate with me about their own financial and |\n| 15 | personal information.
Anything you want to do it's |\n| 16 | better go through attorneys. |\n| 17 | This is the doctrine, the thing, my family |\n| 18 | members told them before they came to New York.
I |\n| 19 | just want to tell you it's the meaning, very similar |\n| 20 | meanings, but I can't tell you word by word. |\n| 21 | So I don't want this counsel make any |\n| 22 | stories about my daughter -- about my daughter's |\n| 23 | forgery, giving false testimony.
That kind of |\n| 24 | story. |\n| 25 | The last time when we were here with Ms. |\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | Holley and he was making false lies and saying I'm |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | using my Twitter account and saying that the judge |\n| 3 | in New York was communist party and I didn't even |\n| 4 | have a Twitter account. |\n| 5 | MR. HARBACH:
Just so the record's clear |\n| 6 | today is the first that I've uttered a word in |\n| 7 | connection with this litigation in court.
So I |\n| 8 | don't think you're talking about me, sir. |\n| 9 | THE WITNESS:
I was saying last time was |\n| 10 | from attorney in your office.
The prior attorney |\n| 11 | before you called Andy Morse (ph) and was kicked out |\n| 12 | by the judge because he was making false claims for |\n| 13 | five years and was kicked out by the judge.
So the |\n| 14 | law office was always making false claims. |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
Just answer his question |\n| 16 | because I can't know whether to object unless you're |\n| 17 | just trying to answer his question. |\n| 18 | THE WITNESS:
I didn't talk to my family, |\n| 19 | daughter and wife individually to say the same |\n| 20 | thing. If I say the same thing, same words, that |\n| 21 | will be making false story. |\n| 22 | MR. HARBACH:
I understand. |\n| 23 | THE WITNESS:
You cannot use your |\n| 24 | imagination and put it into my head.
This is why |\n| 25 | the New York South District and the judge was |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 92 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 (indiscernible) by them and they give me the wrong sentencing. UNIDENTIFIED: Can you say that last -- THE WITNESS: Because of their false claims, so that's why the judge from the south district of New York, the judge, gave me the wrong sentencing. THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: And also the interpreter did not interpret fully counsel's instruction to the witness previously about his objection. MS. CLAIBORN: If you want to repeat it, go ahead. MR. BALDIGA: I think you just have to listen to these questions and answer just these questions. MR. HARBACH: Sorry. Counsel will move to a different topic. BY MR. HARBACH: Q Mr. Kwok, Ms. Claiborn asked you today about a \\$21 million debt that you owe to Golden Spring. She asked you how much of that 21 million was legal fees and your answer was I think most of it. I'd like to know what you meant by most of it.\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 93 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
92 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Did you mean \\$11 million or do you mean close to \\$21 |\n| 2 | million. |\n| 3 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q
Do you still believe that most of it was |\n| 5 | for legal fees? |\n| 6 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 7 | Q
You also mentioned the Logan Cheng |\n| 8 | settlement and that there was money borrowed from |\n| 9 | Golden Spring in connection with that. |\n| 10 | A
Yes. |\n| 11 | Q
How much money was that loan for? |\n| 12 | A
I don't remember exactly.
Probably like |\n| 13 | 200.
Two -- \\$300,000. |\n| 14 | Q
What were the terms of that loan from |\n| 15 | Golden Spring? |\n| 16 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 17 | Q
When Ms. Claiborn asked you if you had |\n| 18 | ever been to Golden Spring's offices in New York, |\n| 19 | you said yes. |\n| 20 | What's the address of those offices? |\n| 21 | A
Yes. |\n| 22 | Q
What is the address of those offices? |\n| 23 | A
64th Street, 162. |\n| 24 | Q
You also mentioned that the last time you |\n| 25 | were there was yesterday and that the reason you |\n\nof 134\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 93 |\n|----|-----------------|---------------------------------------------------|----|\n| 1 | | went there was to prepare for today's meeting. | |\n| 2 | | Who did you meet with there? | |\n| 3 | A | My attorney. | |\n| 4 | Q | Did you meet with anyone else besides your | |\n| 5 | | attorney to prepare for today's meeting while you | |\n| 6 | | were at the office? | |\n| 7 | A | I don't know what you mean, the other | |\n| 8 | people. | | |\n| 9 | Q | Well, did you meet with anyone who works | |\n| 10 | | for Golden Spring? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes, I met Yvonne Wang. | |\n| 12 | Q | And this was yesterday? | |\n| 13 | A | Yes, I met her yesterday. | |\n| 14 | Q | Did you ask some questions of her | |\n| 15 | yesterday? | | |\n| 16 | A | No. | |\n| 17 | Q | And tell me about your conversation with | |\n| 18 | Ms. Wang? | | |\n| 19 | A | What do you mean? | |\n| 20 | Q | Well, I'd like to know what you talked | |\n| 21 | about with her. | | |\n| 22 | A | I ask her to arrange the food to eat and | |\n| 23 | the coffee. | | |\n| 24 | Q | Is that all? | |\n| 25 | A | And also we talked about how to abolish | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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94 |\n| 1 | communist party. | |\n| 2 | Q | I want to make sure I get this right. I |\n| 3 | think you said -- | |\n| 4 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me. Can I hear the |\n| 5 | last thing again. | |\n| 6 | | THE WITNESS:
We talk about how to abolish |\n| 7 | communist party. | |\n| 8 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 9 | Q | Ms. Wang is an officer of Golden Spring, |\n| 10 | correct? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | And you directed her to bring coffee, |\n| 13 | right? | |\n| 14 | A | No, I didn't direct her. I'm just hoping |\n| 15 | | her to bring some coffee. |\n| 16 | Q | You were hoping or helping? |\n| 17 | A | Help. |\n| 18 | Q | You were helping.
Because my question to |\n| 19 | | you was what you talked about with Ms. Wang.
And I |\n| 20 | | thought you said you asked her to bring some coffee |\n| 21 | | or maybe even told her to bring some coffee. |\n| 22 | A | No, your attorney office -- you attorney |\n| 23 | | office making and imagining things again. |\n| 24 | Q | I'll ask the question again. |\n| 25 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Please ask a question. Don't |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
of 134 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 96 |\n|---------------|-------------------|----------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|---------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 95 |\n| 1 | | put words in his mouth. | | |\n| 2 | Q | | What did you discuss with Ms. Wang | |\n| 3 | yesterday? | | | |\n| 4 | A | | Do you want me to talk about in detail? I | |\n| 5 | | can talk about this for hours. | | |\n| 6 | Q | | Well, no, not if the detail concerns how | |\n| 7 | | | to overthrow the Chinese Communist Party. So I'll be | |\n| 8 | more precise. | | | |\n| 9 | A | | So you don't want us to abolish Chinese | |\n| 10 | Community Party. | | Our job is to abolish Chinese | |\n| 11 | Communist Party. | | | |\n| 12 | | MR. BALDIGA: | Just answer the question. | |\n| 13 | | THE WITNESS: | You don't have a question. | |\n| 14 | | You're just directing something. | | |\n| 15 | Q | | Sometimes I speak in segments to allow the | |\n| 16 | | interpreter to translate. | | |\n| 17 | | MR. BALDIGA: | I think it would be helpful | |\n| 18 | | | if you just ask question and then the witness -- | |\n| 19 | | | I'll instruct him to answer your questions. | That |\n| 20 | would be helpful. | | | |\n| 21 | Q | | Did you discuss with Yvette [sic] | |\n| 22 | | | yesterday anything related to preparing for the | |\n| 23 | meeting today? | | | |\n| 24 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 25 | Q | What did you discuss? | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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96 |\n| 1 | A | I ask her to bring those documents here. |\n| 2 | Q | Anything else? |\n| 3 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q | When was Lamp Capital created? |\n| 5 | A | I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q | Why was Lamp Capital created? |\n| 7 | A | I don't know. |\n| 8 | Q | Who created Lamp Capital? |\n| 9 | A | My son. |\n| 10 | Q | How do you know that? |\n| 11 | A | Because I borrow money from my son to pay |\n| 12 | attorney fee. | |\n| 13 | Q | The question is how do you know that your |\n| 14 | | son created Lamp Capital? |\n| 15 | A | Because my son said it. |\n| 16 | Q | He told you himself. |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | Did he ask for any advice from you about |\n| 19 | | whether to create Lamp Capital? |\n| 20 | A | No. |\n| 21 | Q | Did he ask you your opinion on whether he |\n| 22 | | should create Lamp Capital? |\n| 23 | A | No. |\n| 24 | Q | Did he tell you why he was creating Lamp |\n| 25 | Capital? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 98 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\nof 134\n\n| 1 | A
No. |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | Q
When you were talking about your |\n| 3 | malpractice claim against Boise Schiller, you |\n| 4 | mentioned someone you kept referring to as he. I'd |\n| 5 | like to know who that person is? |\n| 6 | A
I don't know what you mean. |\n| 7 | Q
Yes, that was a bad question. I apologize. |\n| 8 | You stated that there was someone who gave |\n| 9 | false documents to the court without your |\n| 10 | permission.
That this person threatened your |\n| 11 | family, that this person threatened you after |\n| 12 | drinking and that this person brought lots of loss |\n| 13 | to you and your family, including not providing |\n| 14 | translated documents before presenting them to the |\n| 15 | judge. |\n| 16 | My question is who is that person? |\n| 17 | A
Schiller.
The Attorney Schiller. |\n| 18 | Q
So Mr. Schiller of the Boise Schiller law |\n| 19 | firm.
Have I got that right? |\n| 20 | A
Yes. |\n| 21 | Q
Thank you. Do you have an understanding of |\n| 22 | what business Lamp Capital is engaged in, if any? |\n| 23 | A
No. |\n| 24 | Q
Different subject.
You said several times |\n| 25 | today in connection with your answers that the |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
98 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | people behind me have done certain things. |\n| 2 | Who are you talking about? |\n| 3 | A
One person behind me, there is a boss |\n| 4 | called Bruno Wu.
He paid the case that -- the rape |\n| 5 | case from (indiscernible)
rape case.
Also there is |\n| 6 | a creditor here and that also was paid by Bruno Wu. |\n| 7 | That attorney fee was paid by Bruno Wu.
And Bruno |\n| 8 | Wu is also his partner and he invested \\$800 million. |\n| 9 | Bruno Wu's partner is also (indiscernible)
previous |\n| 10 | officer and they were investigating and they |\n| 11 | combined a partner with them to investigate my case. |\n| 12 | So April 18, 2017, so this (indiscernible) |\n| 13 | start suing me, bring the lawsuit.
Within this 24 |\n| 14 | hours Bruno Wu is sending me the red note and they |\n| 15 | start bringing the lawsuit. |\n| 16 | MR. HARBACH:
Can I stop -- |\n| 17 | THE WITNESS: The Chinese Communist Party |\n| 18 | stopped the interview, the VOA interview with me. |\n| 19 | They happened at the same time. |\n| 20 | MR. HARBACH:
Or I can let him go. |\n| 21 | THE WITNESS:
All the documents made by |\n| 22 | this attorney firm were all false.
They provide a |\n| 23 | false document to the South District of New York |\n| 24 | court.
They even false claim on my daughter's |\n| 25 | yacht.
The boat is mine.
They sought the judge |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | from the South District Court and I file the |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | bankrupt -- personal bankruptcy case twice and the |\n| 3 | day -- they (indiscernible)
twice including Ms. |\n| 4 | Holley.
And Ms. Holley was present. |\n| 5 | The first time when Ms. Holley was present |\n| 6 | in the court and they false testified saying -- and |\n| 7 | they said my daughter was giving false testimony for |\n| 8 | the Sherry bankruptcy case because my daughter never |\n| 9 | participated in that case. |\n| 10 | And Ms. Holley was there, was present the |\n| 11 | second co date and Ms. Holley was there also.
The |\n| 12 | attorney from the firm was telling the judge and |\n| 13 | they said that I used the Twitter account to -- and |\n| 14 | they said on the Twitter and I was saying on the |\n| 15 | Twitter the south district judge was communist party |\n| 16 | member. |\n| 17 | You can see here all the people behind me |\n| 18 | and one is Bruno Wu and one person paid in many |\n| 19 | cases -- |\n| 20 | MR. HARBACH:
I'd like to ask another |\n| 21 | question. |\n| 22 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 23 | Q
Are you aware one way or the other whether |\n| 24 | your bankruptcy counsel, the Brown Rudnick law firm, |\n| 25 | has ever previously represented Bruno Wu? |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
100 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can I take a |\n| 2 | little break?
I just can't concentrate as much. |\n| 3 | Just too much.
Can I take a break? |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can I ask you to ask that |\n| 5 | question and then we'll take a break? |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yes.
Can you |\n| 7 | repeat that question? |\n| 8 | MR. HARBACH:
I'd be happy to. |\n| 9 | Q
Are you aware one way or the other of |\n| 10 | whether your bankruptcy counsel, the Brown Rudnick |\n| 11 | law firm, previously represented Bruno Wu? |\n| 12 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Represent |\n| 13 | somebody else you said? |\n| 14 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes.
Bruno Wu. |\n| 15 | A
No. |\n| 16 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to take a short |\n| 17 | break. We're going to be back here at 2:45. |\n| 18 | (Break) |\n| 19 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
We are back on |\n| 20 | the record after a short break. |\n| 21 | Mr. Harbach, the floor is yours. |\n| 22 | MR. HARBACH:
Thank you. |\n| 23 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 24 | Q
Ms. Kwok, among the documents in front of |\n| 25 | you, document 78 filed in this case. |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
101 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Which document? |\n| 2 | This one? |\n| 3 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. My apologies. Counsel |\n| 4 | advises me that your copies are not stamped. |\n| 5 | Q
I'm talking about your official from 106. |\n| 6 | So my question for you starts on page 9, which |\n| 7 | contains a heading that says Schedule D, creditors |\n| 8 | who have claimed (indiscernible)
by the property. |\n| 9 | Are you with me? |\n| 10 | You checked the box yes.
And were |\n| 11 | directed to Schedule D, so that's where I would like |\n| 12 | you to flip to, please.
And it's at page 18. |\n| 13 | MR. BALDIGA:
What's the title?
He can |\n| 14 | maybe find it better with the title. |\n| 15 | MR. HARBACH:
Okay. It's the little chart |\n| 16 | that is Schedule D, which is a list of creditors |\n| 17 | with secured claims. |\n| 18 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you'll see that there are five |\n| 20 | separate entries for Golden Spring New York Limited. |\n| 21 | The data in each column is identical for all five |\n| 22 | rows. |\n| 23 | So my question is why are there five |\n| 24 | identical entries on this schedule? |\n| 25 | The question is why are there five |\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 identical entries on this schedule? A I don't know what that means five -- Q Well, each row is exactly the same. And I'm just asking why there are five rows with the same information? A I don't know. Q Among that documents that you filed were some specific notes and one of those notes discusses the residence on Taconic Road. MR. HARBACH: And for counsel I'm at document 77, page 4. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Which page? MR. HARBACH: Page 4. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: 84? MR. HARBACH: No, Page 4. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Oh, page 4. Okay. BY MR. HARBACH: Q My question really isn't so much about the exact test as it is the substance. So first question, is it true that all expenses related to the Taconic Road House are paid directly by family and family controlled enterprises? A Yes. Q Okay. Which family members?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
of 134 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 104 |\n|---------------|---------------|---------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 103 |\n| 1 | A | My wife, sometimes by my son. | | |\n| 2 | Q | | Which family controlled enterprises? | |\n| 3 | A | Which country -- my wife. | | |\n| 4 | Q | | Your wife's not an enterprise. | I'm trying |\n| 5 | | | to ask which family controlled enterprises pay the | |\n| 6 | | expenses for the Taconic House? | | |\n| 7 | A | Greenwich LLC. | | |\n| 8 | Q | Okay. | Incidentally, how do you know that | |\n| 9 | | | your wife and sometimes you son pay these expenses? | |\n| 10 | A | Because I live there. | | |\n| 11 | Q | | Do you observe them pay the expenses? | |\n| 12 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 13 | Q | Is that ever at your request? | | |\n| 14 | A | | I don't remember I request anything. | |\n| 15 | Q | | Does Greenwich Land LLC -- yes Greenwich | |\n| 16 | | | Land LLC own any other real estate besides 373 | |\n| 17 | Taconic Road? | | | |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 19 | Q | | Do you know anything about the property | |\n| 20 | | | located at 33 Ferncliff in Cos Cob, Connecticut? | |\n| 21 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | Can you repeat | |\n| 22 | that? | | | |\n| 23 | | MR. HARBACH: | Yes. | |\n| 24 | Q | | 33 Ferncliff in Cos Cob, Connecticut. | |\n| 25 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | 31, right? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53
Page 105
of 134 |\n|---------------|--------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
104 |\n| 1 | | MR. HARBACH:
No, 33. |\n| 2 | A | Yes, now I remember it. It's also owned by |\n| 3 | my wife's company. | |\n| 4 | Q | That being Greenwich Land? |\n| 5 | A | Maybe. |\n| 6 | Q | Do you know? |\n| 7 | A | I'm not sure. |\n| 8 | Q | Have you ever been to 33 Ferncliff? |\n| 9 | A | Yes. |\n| 10 | Q | How recently? |\n| 11 | A | No.
Not recently. |\n| 12 | Q | Do you know when Greenwich Land purchased |\n| 13 | 33 Ferncliff? | |\n| 14 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 15 | Q | Do you know approximately how much money |\n| 16 | it cost? | |\n| 17 | A | Probably more that \\$1 million. |\n| 18 | Q | Does \\$1.37 million sound about right? |\n| 19 | A | I'm not sure. |\n| 20 | Q | And does the approximate purchase date of |\n| 21 | | September, 2019 sound about right to you? |\n| 22 | A | Not sure. |\n| 23 | Q | Turning back to 373 Taconic for a moment. |\n| 24 | | How much was that property purchased for? |\n| 25 | A | Probably 400 to 500,000. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53
Page 106
of 134 |\n|---------------|--------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
105 |\n| 1 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No, no, no. |\n| 2 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
4 to 5 million. |\n| 3 | I'm sorry. | |\n| 4 | Q | Approximate time of purchase of 373 |\n| 5 | | Taconic, if you know? |\n| 6 | A | I don't know. |\n| 7 | Q | Have you ever resided at 33 Ferncliff? |\n| 8 | A | No. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you know whether anyone currently lives |\n| 10 | there? | |\n| 11 | A | Before there is another comrade maybe, you |\n| 12 | | know, for disjoined Chinese Communist Party and he |\n| 13 | was to live there. | |\n| 14 | Q | How long ago? |\n| 15 | A | Probably one to two years ago. |\n| 16 | Q | DO you remember that person's name? |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | What is it? |\n| 19 | A | Wong Din Gong (ph). |\n| 20 | Q | Does anyone currently live there, if you |\n| 21 | know? | |\n| 22 | A | I don't know. |\n| 23 | Q | Talking about 373 Taconic, where did the |\n| 24 | | money come from to purchase that property? |\n| 25 | A | I don't know. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 107 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|----------|\n| | | of 134 | | |\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 106 |\n|----|--------------------|-------------------------------------------------|--------|\n| 1 | Q | Do you know whether the house was | |\n| 2 | | purchased with cash or financing? | |\n| 3 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 4 | Q | Same questions for 33 Ferncliff. | Do you |\n| 5 | | know where the money came from to purchase that | |\n| 6 | house? | | |\n| 7 | A | I heard it was purchased by cash. | |\n| 8 | Q | From whom -- sorry. From whom did you hear | |\n| 9 | that? | | |\n| 10 | A | I don't remember. | |\n| 11 | Q | Do you know where that money came from? | |\n| 12 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 13 | Q | Do you know what Saraca Media Group is? | |\n| 14 | A | Saraca? | |\n| 15 | Q | Saraca. | |\n| 16 | A | Saraca Media Group.
I do. | |\n| 17 | Q | What is Sirraca Media Group? | |\n| 18 | A | Just Saraca.
It's a company. | |\n| 19 | Q | What kind of company? | |\n| 20 | A | I'm not sure. | |\n| 21 | Q | Have you ever had any relationship with | |\n| 22 | Saraca personally? | | |\n| 23 | A | No. | |\n| 24 | Q | Do you know anything about the type of | |\n| 25 | | business that Saraca conducts? | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 A I remember they are related to GTV Media platform, or they invested on the GTV Media platform. Q How do you know that? A Because I was their consultant, who owned the consultant. And also I was the GTV host. And also this is one of the input and platform for disjoined communist party. Q When you said you were a consultant a moment ago was that for Saraca or for GTV? A GTV. Q Has Saraca ever been -- ever had the 162 East 64th Street address associated with it? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Which address? Can you repeat that one. Q Yes. 162 East 64th Street. The question is whether Saraca has ever been associated with that address? A I don't know. Q That is the family office address, correct? A It's one of them. Q Where are the other ones? A I don't know. Q Are there any others in New York City? Case 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 Page 108 of 134\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
108 | |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|--|\n| 1 | A
I just want to clarify.
Golden Spring is | |\n| 2 | one of the companies in this building, 162. | |\n| 3 | Q
Understood and thank you. | |\n| 4 | We've referred to the family office during | |\n| 5 | your questioning and I just want to be clear.
When | |\n| 6 | we talk about the family office are we referring to | |\n| 7 | that address on East 64th Street? | |\n| 8 | A
Yes. | |\n| 9 | Q
Has GTV ever been associated with the | |\n| 10 | family office address? | |\n| 11 | A
I don't know. | |\n| 12 | Q
Who owns Saraca? | |\n| 13 | A
My son. | |\n| 14 | Q
Since when? | |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. | |\n| 16 | Q
Does Saraca currently exist? | |\n| 17 | A
I don't know. | |\n| 18 | Q
Do you have any idea how many -- do you | |\n| 19 | know anything about the value of Saraca's assets? | |\n| 20 | A
I don't know. | |\n| 21 | Q
Do you know anything about payments Saraca | |\n| 22 | has made to GTV? | |\n| 23 | A
No, I don't know. | |\n| 24 | Q
Has your wife ever told you about any | |\n| 25 | multi-million dollar payments from Saraca to | |\n\n| Case 22-50073
Doc 2032-29
Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 110 |\n|------------------------------------------------|---------------------------|----------|\n|------------------------------------------------|---------------------------|----------|\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 109 |\n|----|-----------------|------------------------------------------------------|-----|\n| 1 | Greenwich Land? | | |\n| 2 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 3 | Q | You don't know whether he's ever told you | |\n| 4 | | or you don't know about the payments? | |\n| 5 | A | She never told me and I don't even know | |\n| 6 | how much. | | |\n| 7 | Q | Do you know a company called Ziba Limited, | |\n| 8 | Z-I-B-A? | | |\n| 9 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Ziba, Z-I-B-A? | |\n| 10 | | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 12 | Q | I'm sorry if I've already asked this. | |\n| 13 | | What is the relationship, if any, between Saraca and | |\n| 14 | GTV? | | |\n| 15 | A | Saraca is the investor for GTV. | |\n| 16 | Q | Do you know how much money Saraca invested | |\n| 17 | in GTV? | | |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 19 | Q | When was GTV founded? | |\n| 20 | A | 2020.
Maybe 2019.
Not very sure. | |\n| 21 | Q | Do you know the names of any of the | |\n| 22 | | officers or directors of Saraca? | |\n| 23 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 24 | Q | Do you know whether Yvette Wang is an | |\n| 25 | | officer or director of Saraca? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53
Page 111
of 134 | |\n|---------------|-------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|-----|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 110 |\n| 1 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 2 | Q | Do you know someone called Hong Chung | |\n| 3 | Wang? | | |\n| 4 | A | Yes. | |\n| 5 | Q | Who is that? | |\n| 6 | A | He's my partner and also comrade for | |\n| 7 | | disjoined Communist Party. | |\n| 8 | Q | Is he a friend of yours? | |\n| 9 | A | Friend, comrade and a partner. | |\n| 10 | Q | What do you mean by partner? | |\n| 11 | A | Because we had a business corporation. | |\n| 12 | Q | Tell me about that. | |\n| 13 | A | Well, I don't remember the name of that | |\n| 14 | company. | It's a company for investigating Communist | |\n| 15 | | Party in USA doing money laundering and committing | |\n| 16 | crimes. | | |\n| 17 | Q | Was it a for profit company? | |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 19 | Q | You don't know? | |\n| 20 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 21 | Q | What was the name of the company? | |\n| 22 | A | I don't remember when getting to English. | |\n| 23 | | I don't remember the name. | |\n| 24 | Q | Approximately what time frame where you | |\n| 25 | | partners with Hong Chung Wang in this company? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53
Page 112
of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
111 |\n| 1 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 2 | Q | Within the last three years? |\n| 3 | A | It must be more than three years ago. |\n| 4 | Q | More than ten years? |\n| 5 | A | No. |\n| 6 | Q | Did Hong Chung Wang ever have any |\n| 7 | | connection to Saraca? |\n| 8 | A | I don't know. |\n| 9 | Q | Was he ever an officer or director of |\n| 10 | Saraca? | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q | What does the G in GTV stand for? |\n| 13 | A | God.
The Goal, like in -- G-O-A-L. |\n| 14 | Q | The English word \"goal\"? |\n| 15 | A | Yea.
Goal or God. |\n| 16 | Q | Okay.
How long have you known Hong Chong |\n| 17 | Wang? | |\n| 18 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 19 | Q | More than ten years? |\n| 20 | A | Roughly. |\n| 21 | Q | And do you still consider him a friend |\n| 22 | today? | |\n| 23 | A | Yes. |\n| 24 | | MR. HARBACH:
Just a moment, please. |\n| 25 | Q | There's been many questions today about |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
112 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Golden Spring funding your living expenses. |\n| 2 | Is it correct that as far as your living |\n| 3 | expenses are concerned that none of that is expected |\n| 4 | to be repaid? |\n| 5 | A
Yes, true. |\n| 6 | Q
And so those monies are not the subject of |\n| 7 | any formal agreement, correct? |\n| 8 | A
No. |\n| 9 | Q
And those monies essentially then are a |\n| 10 | gift to you, correct? |\n| 11 | A
Yes. |\n| 12 | Q
What's the Rule of Law Foundation? |\n| 13 | A
What does that mean? |\n| 14 | Q
The question is what is it? |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
The Rule of Law |\n| 16 | Foundation? |\n| 17 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes, sir. |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 19 | it.
Can you ask it another way? |\n| 20 | Q
There's an entity called -- |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh. |\n| 22 | Q
-- the Rule of Law Foundation. |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 24 | MR. HARBACH:
I'll hopefully save some |\n| 25 | time by just asking this question instead. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
Filed 07/25/23
Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53
Page 114
of 134 |\n|---------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
113 |\n| 1 | Q
Are you familiar with the Rule of Law |\n| 2 | Foundation? |\n| 3 | A
Yes. |\n| 4 | Q
Were you involved in its establishment? |\n| 5 | A
Yes. |\n| 6 | Q
Did you contribute any money to it when it |\n| 7 | was formed? |\n| 8 | A
Not myself. |\n| 9 | Q
Did you direct any entity to contribute to |\n| 10 | the Rule of Law Foundation? |\n| 11 | A
Suggestion in a direct and suggesting any |\n| 12 | difference -- |\n| 13 | Q
If there was a suggestion, please tell me |\n| 14 | it was a suggestion. |\n| 15 | A
I didn't direct anybody or order anybody. |\n| 16 | I just always suggest people to make donations for |\n| 17 | the Foundation. |\n| 18 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
As an |\n| 19 | interpreter, I think that if the witness is asking |\n| 20 | the interpreter questions, the interpreter should |\n| 21 | interpret the question asked by the witness instead |\n| 22 | of answer that question. |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I can answer |\n| 24 | anything. |\n| 25 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
The witness said |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
114 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | are you talking about the (indiscernible)
-- |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
That's why I |\n| 3 | relayed the questions to the attorney. |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
You answer him |\n| 5 | yes, and then you say that. |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, for God's |\n| 7 | sake.
I didn't say -- did I miss anything? |\n| 8 | (Interpretation.) |\n| 9 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
No |\n| 10 | question.
He said no question was not answered. |\n| 11 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 12 | Q
Did you ever suggested to any of your |\n| 13 | family members that they donate to the Rule of Law |\n| 14 | Foundation? |\n| 15 | A
Yes, I did suggest. |\n| 16 | Q
Did any of your family members or the |\n| 17 | family controlled enterprises contribute money to |\n| 18 | the Rule of Law Foundation? |\n| 19 | A
Yes. |\n| 20 | Q
How much money? |\n| 21 | A
For cash there is one -- over \\$1 million. |\n| 22 | From Hong Kong, Japan and Mainland -- in |\n| 23 | China and all combined it should be more than 30 |\n| 24 | million. |\n| 25 | Q
And just focusing for the moment on |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
115 | |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|--|\n| 1 | contributions from your family at your suggestion. | |\n| 2 | Approximately, how much money is that? | |\n| 3 | A
I don't know the details.
Because of | |\n| 4 | security reasons they don't want me to know. | |\n| 5 | Q
Did you say a moment ago that your family | |\n| 6 | contributed over a million dollars? | |\n| 7 | A
One million cash is in New York here. | |\n| 8 | Q
When was that? | |\n| 9 | A
I don't remember. | |\n| 10 | Q
Is the reason -- well, let me ask it this | |\n| 11 | way.
Did you suggest an amount to your family | |\n| 12 | members that they should contribute to the Rule of | |\n| 13 | Law Foundation? | |\n| 14 | A
I want them to donate the more the better. | |\n| 15 | Q
Is that what you told them? | |\n| 16 | A
Yes. | |\n| 17 | Q
Do you know whether the Rule of Law | |\n| 18 | Foundation is associated with the family office | |\n| 19 | address on 64th Street? | |\n| 20 | A
Yes. | |\n| 21 | Q
Did you ever make a \\$100 million donation | |\n| 22 | to the Rule of Law Foundation in November of 2018? | |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat | |\n| 24 | that again? | |\n| 25 | Q
Did you ever make a \\$100 million donation | |\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 to the Rule of Law Foundation in November, 2018? A No. In the live stream like I want -- tried to collect the funds, in the live stream show. Q Did you ever -- MR. BALDIGA: Wait. Was that his whole answer? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Yeah. Something wrong? THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: Not quite exactly what the witness said. (Indiscernible) broadcasting is okay. Live stream is okay. But collect money -- THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Asking for donation, right? (Interpretation) THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: Raise -- THE WITNESS: Raising money, raise donations. Yeah, in the live stream broadcast thing, or whatever, you know, asking for donations to -- you know, to raise funds, to raise money. Q Did you ever promise to donate \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Fund? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: 10 billion you said? MR. HARBACH: No, sir. 1 billion.\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
117 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, one |\n| 2 | billion. |\n| 3 | A
I don't remember. I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q
Do you mean that it's possible that you |\n| 5 | made that promise? |\n| 6 | A
So we could reach that goal if we combine |\n| 7 | the organizations all over the world. |\n| 8 | Q
Understand.
And it's a simple question. I |\n| 9 | just don't know the answer. |\n| 10 | Did you yourself ever promise to donate \\$1 |\n| 11 | billion to the Rule of Law fund? |\n| 12 | A
In the past five years I did the live |\n| 13 | stream over 5,000 times.
Some of the live stream |\n| 14 | could have reached four or five hours.
It's hard |\n| 15 | for me to remember every sentence I said. |\n| 16 | Q
Well, I understand that, but I'm only |\n| 17 | asking about one issue.
And it is whether you ever |\n| 18 | promised publicly, or privately or anyhow to donate |\n| 19 | \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Fund? |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
He did not say |\n| 21 | invest. |\n| 22 | MR. HARBACH:
Donate |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, donate. |\n| 24 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 25 | Q
I'll ask this one one more time. |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | Are you saying that it is possible that | | | |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|\n| 2 | you made such a promise.
You just can't be sure? | | | |\n| 3 | A
In front of Ms. Holley I wouldn't say | | | |\n| 4 | anything is possible but this is a very serious | | | |\n| 5 | issue.
Now they start the scheme again. | | | |\n| 6 | Q
Well, this isn't what did you have for | | | |\n| 7 | breakfast three days ago.
This is did you promise | | | |\n| 8 | to donate \\$1 billion and if the answer is you don't | | | |\n| 9 | know, that's okay. | | | |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
I think that's what the | | | |\n| 11 | answer has been. | | | |\n| 12 | MR. HARBACH:
No, the answer has been I | | | |\n| 13 | don't remember. | | | |\n| 14 | MR. BALDIGA:
Don't remember. | | | |\n| 15 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes, sir. That's a little | | | |\n| 16 | different. | | | |\n| 17 | Q
So the answer might be no, but you're not | | | |\n| 18 | saying no.
You're saying you don't remember. | | | |\n| 19 | A
I said it three times, I don't remember. | | | |\n| 20 | MR. BALDIGA:
There's no question -- | | | |\n| 21 | A
Because in the past five years | | | |\n| 22 | (indiscernible)
always making these kind of answers | | | |\n| 23 | for me so that's why the judge from the South | | | |\n| 24 | District were fooled by you and you started again -- | | | |\n| 25 | Q
I'll move on. | | | |\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 A In the South District court I only met judge 20 seconds. I didn't say one sentence within this five years and I was fined a total about \\$300 million because that's what they did. MR. BALDIGA: All right. Let's stop it. Let's wait for a question and we'll answer the question. MR. HARBACH: Bill, I appreciate your patience. I'll move on. MR. BALDIGA: Translate what I said, please. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Can you repeat that? Everybody's saying at the time. MR. BALDIGA: Ask a question and he'll answer a question. Q Have you made any donations to the Rule of Law Foundation in the last two years? A Myself, right? Q Yes, sir. A No. Q Have you suggested to any of your family that they make donations to the Rule of Law Foundation within the last two years? A I don't remember.\n\nFiore Reporting and Transcription Service, Inc.\n\nQ Would you ever have made a promise to\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
120 |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | donate \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Foundation if |\n| 2 | you did not actually have that money? |\n| 3 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection to form. |\n| 4 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 5 | it.
Can you repeat one more time. |\n| 6 | Q
Would you have ever made a promise to |\n| 7 | donate \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Foundation if |\n| 8 | you did not actually have that money. |\n| 9 | MR. BALDIGA:
And I objected. |\n| 10 | MR. HARBACH:
And then Bill objected. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said are you |\n| 12 | -- want to sentencing me to death sentence? |\n| 13 | Q
Approximately how much is the Lady May |\n| 14 | worth? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Over the years that you have been aboard |\n| 17 | the Lady May, approximately how many times have you |\n| 18 | invited friends to join you? |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 20 | that question one more time? |\n| 21 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. |\n| 22 | Q
Over the years that you had been aboard |\n| 23 | the Lady May, approximately how many times have you |\n| 24 | invited friends out to join you? |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Hold on. |\n\n# Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 MR. HARBACH: Sorry, Bill. MR. BALDIGA: David, you have a deposition on the Lady May issues coming up. You can choose today or then. Either one is fine. MR. HARBACH: That's a fair point. I'll move on. MR. BALDIGA: Okay. No question. MR. HARBACH: If I could direct counsel's attention again to document 77. And I want to focus on question 19. Q Mr. Kwok, let me know when you're read that question. It's no. 19. (Pause.) A Finished. Q Okay. So for the benefit of the record, the question says within ten years before you filed for bankruptcy did you transfer any property to a self settled trust or similar device of which you are a beneficiary? A No. Q And that is indeed what you checked on the form. My question for you is if you turn -- if changed the word you to a family member as the beneficiary, what would the answer be? MR. BALDIGA: Objection. Case 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 Page 122 of 134\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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122 |\n| 1 | A
I cannot answer questions with if. |\n| 2 | Q
I'll ask it a different way. |\n| 3 | MR. HARBACH:
And, Jack, I'll ask you to |\n| 4 | bear with me. |\n| 5 | Q
Within ten years before you filed for |\n| 6 | bankruptcy did you transfer any property to a self |\n| 7 | settled trust or similar device of which a member of |\n| 8 | your family is a beneficiary? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | Q
Sticking with that same document going |\n| 11 | forward to question 27.
Just let me know when |\n| 12 | you're read it, sir. |\n| 13 | (Pause.) |\n| 14 | A
Okay. I'm finished. |\n| 15 | Q
So you see there you have checked the box |\n| 16 | next to the word yes.
And then the instructions say |\n| 17 | check all that apply above and fill in the details |\n| 18 | below for each business. |\n| 19 | MR. HARBACH:
Do you see where that is, |\n| 20 | Jack? |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't see |\n| 22 | that. |\n| 23 | MR. HARBACH:
Next -- Holley can show you. |\n| 24 | (Pause.) |\n| 25 | MR. HARBACH:
So I was just pointing out |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
123 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | to the witness -- for the benefit of the translator |\n| 2 | I'll say it again. |\n| 3 | Q
Next to the box that is checked yes, the |\n| 4 | instructions say check all that apply above and fill |\n| 5 | in the details below for each business.
None of the |\n| 6 | boxes above is checked and that's my question. |\n| 7 | Which box or boxes should be checked for |\n| 8 | each of those three entities that you have listed? |\n| 9 | A
I cannot determine which one. |\n| 10 | Q
Is that something you would need more time |\n| 11 | to figure out or you just don't know the answer? |\n| 12 | A
I could answer one by one. |\n| 13 | Q
Okay. Let's do that.
Let's start with |\n| 14 | Genever. |\n| 15 | A
Which Genever? |\n| 16 | Q
Well, the one that's listed is Genever |\n| 17 | Holdings Corporation. |\n| 18 | Which of those boxes would you check for |\n| 19 | Genever Holdings Corporation, if any? |\n| 20 | A
It was one time -- it was a member of LLC. |\n| 21 | The above don't apply and should transfer to no. 12 |\n| 22 | -- transfer to 12. |\n| 23 | It used to be an LLC. |\n| 24 | Q
Are you saying that you would check the |\n| 25 | box for a member of an LLC but it should be in the |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | past tense? | | | |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------|--|--|\n| 2 | A | Yes.
Used to be. | | |\n| 3 | Q | Do any of the other boxes apply to your | | |\n| 4 | relationship to Genever Holdings Corporation? | | | |\n| 5 | A | The last row seems like appropriate for | | |\n| 6 | me. I'm not very sure. | | | |\n| 7 | Q | The last row being an owner of at least | | |\n| 8 | five percent of the voting or equity securities of a | | | |\n| 9 | corporation? | | | |\n| 10 | A | I owned 50 percent for a very short period | | |\n| 11 | of time. | | | |\n| 12 | Q | Okay.
What about for Shiny Time? | | |\n| 13 | A | Shiny Time already went away. | | |\n| 14 | Q | I understand.
When it was in existence, | | |\n| 15 | which of those boxes was accurate? | | | |\n| 16 | A | Number one. | | |\n| 17 | Q | A sole proprietor? | | |\n| 18 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 19 | Q | Any of the others? | | |\n| 20 | A | Not sure. | | |\n| 21 | Q | Okay.
What about for Well Origin Limited? | | |\n| 22 | A | It went away. | | |\n| 23 | Q | Okay.
Same question though.
Which of | | |\n| 24 | those boxes applied when it was in existence? | | | |\n| 25 | A | Number one. | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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125 |\n| 1 | Q | Any of the others? |\n| 2 | A | Not sure. |\n| 3 | Q | One last point about this question. |\n| 4 | | For Genever Holdings Corporation the block |\n| 5 | | for the dates that the business existed is blank. |\n| 6 | | Do you know what those dates should be? |\n| 7 | A | 2015.
Probably March, April to June, |\n| 8 | July. | |\n| 9 | Q | Of which year? |\n| 10 | A | 2015. |\n| 11 | Q | So from approximately March or April until |\n| 12 | | approximately July all in 2015? |\n| 13 | A | Yes. |\n| 14 | Q | Okay.
And is that the entire duration |\n| 15 | | that that corporation existed? |\n| 16 | A | I was in the company for a few months, for |\n| 17 | | this period of time, a few months and with holding - |\n| 18 | - in stock holding. | And the company still existed |\n| 19 | after I left. | |\n| 20 | Q | I understand.
And does it still exist |\n| 21 | today? | |\n| 22 | A | I believe it still exists. |\n| 23 | Q | Okay.
In what year did you get married? |\n| 24 | A | 1918 -- or 1985. |\n| 25 | Q | What year was your son born? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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126 |\n| 1 | A | 1986. |\n| 2 | Q | And how old are you, sir? |\n| 3 | A | 54. |\n| 4 | Q | How old was your son when your family |\n| 5 | | began working with Uda Property Company? |\n| 6 | A | 11.
Oh, five years -- five years old. |\n| 7 | Q | And so that would have been in |\n| 8 | | approximately 1991 that your family began working |\n| 9 | with Uda? | |\n| 10 | A | Yes. |\n| 11 | Q | When was the Henan Uda Hotel completed? |\n| 12 | A | In 1997. |\n| 13 | Q | And what about the Uda International Trade |\n| 14 | Center. | When was it completed? |\n| 15 | A | At pretty much the same time. |\n| 16 | Q | In your declaration in this case you |\n| 17 | | stated that both of those were successful ventures. |\n| 18 | A | Yes. |\n| 19 | Q | That allowed your family to start amassing |\n| 20 | significant wealth. | |\n| 21 | A | Yes. |\n| 22 | Q | So recognizing that this is in the early |\n| 23 | | '90's how much money approximately did those |\n| 24 | | ventures bring to your family? |\n| 25 | A | I don't remember. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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127 |\n| 1 | Q | More than \\$50 million? |\n| 2 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
50 or 15? |\n| 3 | | MR. HARBACH:
5-0. |\n| 4 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, okay. |\n| 5 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 6 | Q | What about the Pengu Plaza?
When was it |\n| 7 | completed? | |\n| 8 | A | July 2008. |\n| 9 | Q | So between the early '90's and 2008 what |\n| 10 | | other projects of significant did the Guo family |\n| 11 | | invest in or participate in? |\n| 12 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Since 1990's to |\n| 13 | -- | |\n| 14 | A | Between the early 1990's and 2008. |\n| 15 | Q | Do you remember any of them?
Any of the |\n| 16 | | significant ventures? |\n| 17 | A | Beijing Golden Spring. |\n| 18 | Q | What was that? |\n| 19 | A | It's a property company.
Real estate. |\n| 20 | | It's a real estate company. |\n| 21 | Q | Was this a development company or a -- |\n| 22 | | like a buying and selling agency? |\n| 23 | A | Developing company. |\n| 24 | Q | When was the Pangu Plaza project started, |\n| 25 | approximately? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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128 |\n| 1 | A | Roughly 1999. |\n| 2 | Q | Okay. So let's use that as a point in |\n| 3 | time. | |\n| 4 | | At the beginning of the Pangu Plaza |\n| 5 | | project approximately how much had the family |\n| 6 | amassed in wealth? | |\n| 7 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Ask that |\n| 8 | question again? | |\n| 9 | | MR. HARBACH:
Sure. |\n| 10 | Q | As of 1999, which was the beginning of the |\n| 11 | | Pangu Plaza project, approximately how much wealth |\n| 12 | | had the family earned or amassed by that time? |\n| 13 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
You're talking |\n| 14 | about after 1999? | |\n| 15 | | MR. HARBACH:
No, I'm talking about as of |\n| 16 | 1999? | |\n| 17 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, as of 1999. |\n| 18 | Q | How much money had the family made by |\n| 19 | 1999? | |\n| 20 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 21 | Q | More than \\$100 million? |\n| 22 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 23 | Q | More than \\$500 million? |\n| 24 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 25 | Q | More than a billion dollars? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23
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of 134 | Page 130 |\n|---------------|-------------|-------------------------------------------------------|----------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 129 |\n| 1 | A | I don't remember. | |\n| 2 | Q | Were you personally involved in the work | |\n| 3 | | with Uda Property Company? | |\n| 4 | A | Yes. | |\n| 5 | Q | Were you personally involved in the | |\n| 6 | | development of the Henan Uda Hotel? | |\n| 7 | A | Yes. | |\n| 8 | Q | Were you personally involved in the Uda | |\n| 9 | | International Trade Center in Zhengzhou? | |\n| 10 | A | Yes. | |\n| 11 | Q | Were you personally involved in the | |\n| 12 | | development of the Pengu Plaza? | |\n| 13 | A | Yes. | |\n| 14 | Q | Who was in charge of the Beijing Golden | |\n| 15 | | Spring Real Estate Development firm? | |\n| 16 | A | A professional group. | |\n| 17 | Q | Were you a member of that group? | |\n| 18 | A | At that time I was a consultant. | |\n| 19 | Q | For Beijing Golden Spring? | |\n| 20 | A | Yes. | |\n| 21 | Q | During what time frame was that, | |\n| 22 | | approximately that you were a consultant for them? | |\n| 23 | A | After 2000. | |\n| 24 | Q | After 2000.
Okay. | |\n| 25 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Harbach, I just want to | |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
130 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | note that it is 4:18 and I know we've had a long day |\n| 2 | -- and I wanted to give -- I apologize for |\n| 3 | interrupting you, first of all. |\n| 4 | MR. HARBACH:
That's all right. |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
But I wanted to give |\n| 6 | counsel for the committee a chance to ask a few |\n| 7 | questions today before we conclude. |\n| 8 | MR. HARBACH:
Of course.
Sure. |\n| 9 | MR. STAFSTROM:
I'll be very brief. |\n| 10 | EXAMINATION BY MR. STAFSTROM: |\n| 11 | Q
I noticed your hair is very short. I like |\n| 12 | it.
Have you gotten a haircut recently? |\n| 13 | A
Yes.
I had a haircut. |\n| 14 | Q
Where did you get it cut? |\n| 15 | A
My wife. |\n| 16 | Q
Oh, your wife.
Okay. |\n| 17 | Does she always cut your hair? |\n| 18 | A
After the virus until now. |\n| 19 | Q
Okay.
All right. I have no further |\n| 20 | questions then. |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to put the |\n| 22 | recording on pause while we work on selecting a new |\n| 23 | date. |\n| 24 | (Off the record.) |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We're back on the record |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29
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of 134 | Page 132 |\n|---------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------|----------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 131 |\n| 1 | after a short break.
We have selected a continuance | |\n| 2 | date of April 29th, beginning at 10:00 a.m. | We are |\n| 3 | concluded for today.
Thank you. | |\n| 4 | (Meeting adjourned.) | |\n| 5 | | |\n| 6 | | |\n| 7 | | |\n| 8 | | |\n| 9 | | |\n| 10 | | |\n| 11 | | |\n| 12 | | |\n| 13 | | |\n| 14 | | |\n| 15 | | |\n| 16 | | |\n| 17 | | |\n| 18 | | |\n| 19 | | |\n| 20 | | |\n| 21 | | |\n| 22 | | |\n| 23 | | |\n| 24 | | |\n| | | |\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n I, CHRISTINE FIORE, court-approved transcriber and certified electronic reporter and transcriber, certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the official electronic sound recording of the proceedings in the above-entitled matter.\n\n9 April 15, 2022\n\n11 Transcriber\n\n10 Christine Fiore, CERT\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2032-29 | Filed 07/25/23 | Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 | Page 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|----------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|----------|\n\n| | | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 133 | |\n|----|------------------------------|--|-----------------------------|------|--|\n| 1 | | | INDEX | | |\n| 2 | | | | | |\n| 3 | | | | Page | |\n| 4 | Examination by Ms. Claiborn | | | 6 | |\n| 5 | Examination by Mr. Wolman | | | 71 | |\n| 6 | Examination by Mr. Harbach | | | 80 | |\n| 7 | Examination by Mr. Stafstrom | | | 130 | |\n| 8 | | | | | |\n| 9 | | | | | |\n| 10 | | | | | |\n| 11 | | | | | |\n| 12 | | | | | |\n| 13 | | | | | |\n| 14 | | | | | |\n| 15 | | | | | |\n| 16 | | | | | |\n| 17 | | | | | |\n| 18 | | | | | |\n| 19 | | | | | |\n| 20 | | | | | |\n| 21 | | | | | |\n| 22 | | | | | |\n| 23 | | | | | |\n| 24 | | | | | |\n| 25 | | | | | |","body_zh":"证物29\n\n美国康涅狄格州联邦破产法院\n关于 * 第11章 *\n*\nHO WAN KWOK（郭文贵）， * 案件编号 22-50073(JAM)\n*\n债务人。 *\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n2022年4月6日续行债权人会议记录\n由美国受托人办公室电子录音\n记录整理人：Christine Fiore，CERT\nFiore Reporting and Transcription Service, Inc.\n4 Research Drive, Suite 402\nShelton, CT 06484\n(203)929-9992\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n出庭人员：\n代表债务人：WILLIAM R. BALDIGA, ESQ.\nBEN SILVERBERG, ESQ.\nBrown Rudnick, LLP\nSeven Times Square\nNew York, NY\n\n代表美国受托人：HOLLEY E. CLAIBORN, ESQ.\nSTEVEN MACKEY, ESQ.\n美国受托人办公室\n150 State Street\nNew Haven, CT\n\n代表债权人Logan Cheng（程乐汉）：\nJAY MARSHALL WOLMAN, ESQ.\nRandazza Legal Group\n100 Pearl Street, 14th Floor\nHartford, CT 06103\n代表债权人Pacific Alliance Asia Opportunity Fund, LP：\nDAVID V. HARBACH, II, ESQ.\nO'Melveny & Myers, LLP\n1625 I Street NW\nWashington, DC\n\nSTUART SARNOFF, ESQ.\nMAKENZIE RUSSO\nO'Melveny & Myers, LLP\nTimes Square Tower\n7 Times Square\nNew York, NY\n\nANNECCA SMITH, ESQ.\nRobinson and Cole\n280 Trumbull Street\nHartford, CT\n\n代表债权人Bruno Wu（吴征）、Weican Meng（孟伟灿）及Rui Ma（马蕊）：\nKRISTEN MAYHEW, ESQ.\nMcElroy, Deutsch, Mulvaney &\nCarpenter\nOne State Street\nHartford, CT\n\n代表无担保债权人官方委员会：\nSTEVEN STAFSTROM, ESQ.\nPullman & Comley\n850 Main Street\nBridgeport, CT\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 CLAIBORN女士：\n早上好。\n今天是\n\n2 2022年4月6日，星期三。我们为\n3 Ho Wan Kwok（郭文贵）第11章案件中续行的债权人会议\n4 而聚集于此，案件编号为22-50073。\n5 我叫Holley Claiborn（霍莉·克莱伯恩）。我是美国受托人办公室的\n6 出庭律师，\n7 我将主持今天的会议。今天的\n8 会议正在通过数字录音机录音，并且\n9 各方还可通过电话\n10 参与。包括债务人、\n11 律师及其他专业人士在内的各方\n12 均亲自到场。\n13 正如诸位所能听到的，今天的会议正在进行口译，\n14 今天的口译员是Jeff（杰夫），\n15 我将请Jeff就本宣誓作出回应。\n16 （口译员宣誓。）\n17 法庭：\n代表Kwok先生出席的有\n18 William Baldiga（威廉·巴尔迪加）和Ben Silverberg（本·西尔弗伯格）。\n19 此外，代表债务人出席的还有\n20 财务专业人士Craig Gelbert（克雷格·盖尔伯特）和Matthew\n21 Flynn（马修·弗林）。\n22 今天代表\n23 无担保债权人委员会出席的是Pullman and Comley的Steven Stafstrom（史蒂文·斯塔夫斯特罗姆）。\n24 \n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n1 Stafstrom先生是\n2 无担保债权人官方委员会的律师。\n3 今天代表PAACS出席的还有\n4 Stuart Sarnoff（斯图尔特·萨诺夫）、David Harbach（大卫·哈巴赫）和MacKenzie Russo（麦肯齐·鲁索）。\n5 他们代表PAACS。\n6 代表包括\n7 Rui Ma（马蕊）在内的若干债权人出席的是Kristen Mayhew（克里斯滕·梅休）。\n8 代表债权人Logan Cheng（程乐汉）出席的\n9 是Jay Wolman（杰伊·沃尔曼）。\n10 此外，代表PAACS出席的还有\n11 来自Robinson and Cole的Annecca Smith（安妮卡·史密斯）。\n12 今天代表债务人出席的还有\n13 Josh Klein（乔什·克莱因）和Aaron Mitchell（亚伦·米切尔）。\n14 今天的会议将先由我提问，\n15 之后债权人将有机会\n16 上前提问。\n17 有人在线上电话会议\n18 线路上吗？\n19 MACKEY先生：\n美国受托人办公室的Steven Mackey（史蒂文·麦基）\n20 在线上电话会议线路上。\n21 谢谢，Mackey先生。除Mackey先生外，\n22 还有其他人吗？\n23 未听到回应，我将继续\n24 对Kwok先生进行宣誓。\n25 （债务人宣誓。）\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 CLAIBORN女士：\nKwok先生，如您所知，\n\n2 今天的会议正在录音，Jeff先生在此\n3 担任我们今天的官方口译员。\n4 Jeff将口译\n5 我所提的问题及您的回答，我请您在Jeff完成全部翻译\n6 后\n7 再回答我的问题。\n8 由CLAIBORN女士进行询问：\n9 问\nKwok先生，今天我们将从\n10 2022年3月\n11 21日举行的上次债权人会议中总体上暂停的部分继续。\n12 \n13 自2022年3月21日以来，您的就业\n14 状况是否有任何变化？\n15 答\n没有。\n16 问\n有关您的\n17 住所是否有任何变化？\n18 答\n没有。\n19 问\n在2022年3月21日举行的会议期间，\n20 我曾询问您有关您的\n21 破产清单及破产财务状况说明\n22 准确性的情况。\n23 答\n没有变化。\n24 问\n谢谢。\n25 CLAIBORN女士：\nJeff，为便于我\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n1 提问，我将依照您面前的文件进行。\n2 当我说“清单”时，指的是\n3 这份文件。然后这份文件是\n4 财务状况说明。明白吗？当我\n5 提及ECF编号时，它在页面顶部。\n6 官方口译员：\nECF编号。\n7 明白。\n8 CLAIBORN女士：\n明白吗？这样应当能够\n9 让您跟上，并从这一页开始。\n10 由CLAIBORN女士进行询问：\n11 问\n好的。Kwok先生，我要请您\n12 确认您面前有——看来您确实有——\n13 清单A-B至J。\n14 私人口译员：\n他面前有普通话\n15 译本。\n16 由CLAIBORN女士：\n17 问\n我看到坐在您旁边的Baldiga先生\n18 持有英文版本。但是您面前的，\n19 Kwok先生，似乎是译本。是否\n20 准确？\n21 答\n只有清单A-B。\n22 问\n好的。那么，Kwok先生，今天您回答\n23 我的问题时，您将查看\n24 自己译成中文的破产清单。\n25 \n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 好的。\n2 问 好的。\n3 私人口译员：\n请稍等，\n4 法官阁下。\n5 CLAIBORN女士：\n好的。\n6 私人口译员：\n我在\n7 听取口译员口译证人回答时\n8 有一点困难。\n9 CLAIBORN女士：\n好的。那么，Jack，如果您\n10 可以说大声一点。我将移动麦克风。\n11 官方口译员：\n哦，好的。\n12 CLAIBORN女士：\n看看这样是否有效。\n13 由CLAIBORN女士：\n14 问 好的。Kwok先生，从清单A-B第\n15 1题开始。关于清单A-B第\n16 1题，该题问您是否拥有任何不动产、住所、\n17 建筑物或类似财产的任何法定或\n18 衡平权益。您对该\n19 第1题的回答是否定的，Kwok先生。这一回答\n20 准确吗？\n21 答 是。\n22 问\nKwok先生，您在2018年至您于\n23 2022年2月提交破产申请之间，\n24 是否拥有过任何不动产？\n25 官方口译员：\n您能重复\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n1 一下吗？\n2 由CLAIBORN女士：\n3 问\n您在2018年至您于2022年2月提交破产申请\n4 之间，\n5 是否拥有过任何不动产？\n6 官方口译员：\n您能重复\n7 一下吗？他说他没有听到。\n8 由CLAIBORN女士：\n9 问\nKwok先生——\n10 BALDIGA先生：\n抱歉。我没有听到。\n11 官方口译员：\n他说他\n12 没有理解翻译。我只是想\n13 先确认我理解了。\n14 CLAIBORN女士：\n我会重复问题。\n15 官方口译员：\n好的。\n16 由CLAIBORN女士：\n17 问\nKwok先生，您在2018年至2022年2月之间\n18 是否拥有过任何不动产？\n19 答\n没有。\n20 问\nKwok先生，截至您在2022年2月提交破产申请时，\n21 您是否在世界任何地方的任何不动产中\n22 拥有任何衡平权益？\n23 答\n没有。\n24 问\nKwok先生，截至您在2022年2月提交破产申请时，\n25 您是否在\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 世界任何地方的任何不动产中拥有任何\n2 法定权益？\n3 答\n没有。\n4 问\nKwok先生，您是否曾在香港拥有过任何\n5 不动产？\n6 答\n没有。\n7 私人口译员：\n回答是什么？\n8 官方口译员：\n没有。\n9 由CLAIBORN女士：\n10 问\nKwok先生，您是否曾拥有位于\n11 香港South Bay Road 16A的房产？\n12 答\n没有。\n13 问\nKwok先生，您目前是否拥有位于纽约市Sherry Netherland的\n14 一套公寓？\n15 官方口译员：\n我没有听清。\n16 我能请他重复——重复回答吗？\n17 BALDIGA先生：\n您必须说——无论\n18 您要说什么，您必须——您是在对所有人说话，\n19 不仅是Holley，所以我需要听到\n20 您在说什么。\n21 官方口译员：\n好的。我只是——\n22 我只是想请他重复——重复\n23 回答。\n24 BALDIGA先生：\n好的。\n25 官方口译员：\n好的？\n\n第 134 页之\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n1 证人：\n我不拥有那处位于纽约的不动产，\n2 Sharon——Sharons——那个\n3 地址我记不起了，而我拥有——我拥有50\n4 百分比的股票——股票和——\n5 私人口译员：\n没有。\n6 官方口译员：\n没有？\n7 私人口译员：\n没有。\n8 官方口译员：\n好的。\n9 证人：\n代表家庭。\n10 CLAIBORN女士：\n我能请您不要\n11 打断吗？您能否等到最后，然后\n12 ——\n13 私人口译员：\n好的。\n14 CLAIBORN女士：\n——您可以表达您\n15 想说的任何内容？\n16 私人口译员：\n好的。\n17 CLAIBORN女士：\n您能否请\n18 再翻译一次Kwok先生的回答？\n19 官方口译员：\n可以。我只是\n20 想重复一遍，确认——并且我说得对，\n21 您知道，他所说的话。\n22 证人：\n所以，是的，他——他说，我欠——我拥有该——\n23 50百分比，但我\n24 并不拥有整个不动产，我只是\n25 代表家庭。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交日期 07/25/23 录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53 第12页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n1 由CLAIBORN女士：\n2 问\nKwok先生，您拥有其中50百分比的是什么？\n3 答\nBravo Luck，50百分比的股票粉末\n4 ——权力。我不知道。我不理解。\n5 私人口译员：\n（无法辨认。）\n6 官方口译员：\n他拥有——他说他拥有其中的\n7 50百分比。\n8 私人口译员：\n——我们可以清楚地听到您，Holley。\n9 \n10 CLAIBORN女士：\n好的。我将要问——\n11 我将要——\n12 私人口译员：\n我不知道\n13 麦克风是否连接到了任何设备。\n14 CLAIBORN女士：\n连接了。连接了。Jeff，您\n15 能否说大声一点？\n16 官方口译员：\nKwok先生说\n17 他欠——他拥有——该股票的50百分比。是\n18 不动产的股票之类吗？\n19 我不知道。我不明白。但如果她想要帮助，您可以帮助。\n20 您想让他稍微帮一点忙吗？\n21 \n22 CLAIBORN女士：\n我宁愿不要。\n23 官方口译员：\n好的。\n24 CLAIBORN女士：\n那么，我只会——我会问\n25 后续问题。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 官方口译员：\n好的。\n2 BALDIGA先生：\n好吧。但如果是误译，我需要\n3 听到，所以——\n4 CLAIBORN女士：\n如果可以，我要问一个\n5 澄清性问题。\n6 由CLAIBORN女士：\n7 问\nKwok先生，您是否拥有一家名为\n8 Bravo Luck的公司的50百分比？\n9 答\n我代表我的家庭持有50百分比的\n10 股票。\n11 问\nKwok先生，当您使用“家庭”这个词时——\n12 BALDIGA先生：\n我可以再听一遍吗？\n13 您能重复一下吗？\n14 官方口译员：\n可以。我\n15 代表我的家庭持有该——该公司\n16 50百分比的股票。\n17 BALDIGA先生：\n好的。\n18 由CLAIBORN女士：\n19 问\nKwok先生，当您说家庭时，您的\n20 意思是什么？\n21 答\n我的家庭是一个大家庭，其中\n22 包括很多人。我的孩子和我的嫂子、\n23 以及所有人在一起。很多人。\n24 问\nKwok先生，谁拥有一项权益——\n25 BALDIGA先生：\n不好意思。我们确实有\n\n第 134 页之\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 口译问题。\n\n2 私人口译员：我只是想问，口译是否应当是对原话的概述？\n\n5 CLAIBORN 女士：在 Jeff 先生能力所及的范围内，应当逐字翻译。\n\n7 私人口译员：好的。因此，如果 Kwok 先生说，我的儿子、我的女儿、我的兄弟、我的嫂子、我的侄子、我的侄女，很多人，那么如果口译员说，嗯，我的很多家人和我的兄弟，很多人，那么这是否正确？\n\n13 CLAIBORN 女士：我希望 Jeff 先生尽可能逐字翻译。按照这一指示，我们能否——\n\n16 官方口译员：可以。\n\n17 CLAIBORN 女士：——从现在起尽我们所能做好具体的工作？谢谢。\n\n19 BALDIGA 先生：谢谢。\n\n20 由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n21 问：那么，Kwok 先生，谁拥有名为 Bravo Luck（布拉沃·拉克）的公司？\n\n23 答：我的儿子。\n\n24 问：您儿子的姓名是什么？\n\n25 答：Cheng Wu（程武）。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 问：您儿子拥有 Bravo Luck 多久了？\n\n2 答：我不记得了。\n\n3 私人口译员：请再说一遍。\n\n5 官方口译员：我不记得了。\n\n7 由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n8 问：那么，Kwok 先生，在您说明您对 Southern Sherry Netherland（南部雪莉荷兰大厦）的所有权权益时，您拥有其中什么的 50%？\n\n11 BALDIGA 先生：反对。您可以翻译。\n\n13 官方口译员：Holley，您能再重复一遍那个问题吗？\n\n15 由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n16 问：Kwok 先生，您作证称您拥有某家公司的 50%，这是对我询问您是否拥有 Sherry Netherland（雪莉荷兰大厦）公寓的问题所作的回答。请您解释一下您的意思？\n\n20 答：Sherry 是合作公寓。它没有——它没有——它没有所有权。\n\n23 私人口译员：Holley 女士，我可以吗？\n\n25 BALDIGA 先生：可以，当然。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交日期 07/25/23 录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 16 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 私人口译员：您得说大声一点。\n\n3 CLAIBORN 女士：好的。我们在这里暂停一下。\n\n5 （休庭记录外）\n\n6 CLAIBORN 女士：好。短暂休息后，我们恢复记录。Kwok 先生，您仍在宣誓状态。Jeff，您能否重新翻译？\n\n10 官方口译员：可以。\n\n11 CLAIBORN 女士：最后一个问题。您希望我再问一遍吗？\n\n13 官方口译员：可以。您能再问一遍吗？\n\n15 CLAIBORN 女士：好，我再试一次。\n\n17 由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n18 问：Kwok 先生，您今天作证称，您拥有某家公司权益的 50%，这是您对我询问您是否拥有 Sherry Netherland 公寓的问题所作的回答。请您解释一下您的回答？\n\n23 BALDIGA 先生：反对。\n\n24 证人：我不知道如何解释。他说 Sherry Netherland 是合作公寓。我没有该房产的产权契据，我只是代表我的家人拥有该权利的 50%。\n\n3 BALDIGA 先生：对不起。请继续。\n\n4 私人口译员：因为——Kwok 先生确实提到了公司名称 Bravo Luck，所以口译员先生没有说出 Bravo Luck 这个词，即持有 Sherry Netherland 权益的公司，而 Kwok 先生代表其家人拥有 Bravo Luck 的 50%，该公司是拥有 Sherry Netherland 的控股公司。Sherry Netherland 是合作公寓。\n\n12 BALDIGA 先生：因此，我将提出持续性反对，只要口译员未提供证人所用的确切措辞。我并非归咎于任何人或其他什么，但这显然对证言质量至关重要，也是必要的。\n\n18 CLAIBORN 女士：我们需要——\n\n19 BALDIGA 先生：我们必须使用证人所用的措辞。\n\n21 CLAIBORN 女士：我相信 Jeff 今天会尽其所能，尝试逐字翻译一切。\n\n24 BALDIGA 先生：谢谢。\n\n25 CLAIBORN 女士：但是，请理解——\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 在这个房间里，有些术语是 Jeff 先生并不熟悉的。因此，如果人们以公司名称的简称或仅一个词来回答问题，回答应当尽可能具体——\n\n6 官方口译员：是的，我——\n\n7 CLAIBORN 女士：——如果您能够翻译这一点。\n\n9 官方口译员：——我会尽力，但说实话，Holley，那位口译员可能更了解这个案件，了解细节。\n\n13 CLAIBORN 女士：我同意。您能不能——\n\n14 官方口译员：但如果他——\n\n15 CLAIBORN 女士：——您能否把我刚才所说的话翻译给 Kwok 先生，因为我想确保——\n\n18 官方口译员：哦。\n\n19 CLAIBORN 女士：——他以易于翻译的方式回答问题。\n\n21 官方口译员：我只是告诉他，回答要——您知道——简短清楚，但我基本上理解他所说的内容，而且——\n\n24 CLAIBORN 女士：您能否把 Kwok 先生对您评论的回答或评论翻译出来？\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n2 官方口译员：他说他会尽量说得更简短、更清楚，但是他需要尽可能详细地解释，因为这——这关系到他的命脉。\n\n6 CLAIBORN 女士：Sarnoff 先生？\n\n7 SARNOFF 先生：是的。我只是想明确，如果口译员——翻译员、官方翻译员与 Kwok 先生的口译员之间存在差异，那么翻译员是最终裁决者；除非翻译员同意口译员提出的翻译差异，否则他们必须先解决该问题，然后我们才能以 Kwok 先生的私人口译员所述的 Kwok 先生原话为准。\n\n17 BALDIGA 先生：我不接受这一点。\n\n18 SARNOFF 先生：没关系。\n\n19 BALDIGA 先生：那可以是您的立场。\n\n20 SARNOFF 先生：好的。立场应当是，翻译员必须就 Kwok 先生所说的话与口译员达成一致，记录才会准确。\n\n24 BALDIGA 先生：我——我理解您的立场。\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 官方口译员：那么，Holley，如果我遗漏了任何内容，他的私人口译员想补充我遗漏的内容、一些细节信息，她是否可以补充；如果我同意——您知道——我遗漏的内容或他说过的内容，也许我遗漏了一些细节信息和一些——\n\n8 CLAIBORN 女士：我认为今天更好的做法——\n\n10 官方口译员：是。\n\n11 CLAIBORN 女士：——为使翻译和记录清楚——\n\n13 官方口译员：好的。\n\n14 CLAIBORN 女士：——是由您，Jeff，翻译——\n\n16 官方口译员：嗯。\n\n17 CLAIBORN 女士：——我的问题，并翻译 Kwok 先生的回答。\n\n19 官方口译员：好的。\n\n20 CLAIBORN 女士：如果 Kwok 先生根据您的翻译认为您没有正确翻译，那么他可以再次作证，您可以再试一次。但是，我希望限制翻译员之间以及与 Kwok 先生私人翻译员之间的互动，以便我们有一份官方记录，其中提出问题的人是我，问题得到正式翻译，Kwok 先生作出回答，回答也得到正式翻译。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：但是，Holley，这样做的问题是，证人不知道 Jeff 的英语转述实际上是否准确。您不能把这留给证人。这就是我们设有核查口译员的原因。如果他说英语，我们就不需要任何口译员了。他做不到这一点。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：我认为，从实际情况来看，Kwok 先生的英语足以知道他是否回答了问题。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：不，他不具备。我反对。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：嗯，我——我认为，根据我自己的亲身经验，这就是我所看到的。话虽如此，我们会尽力而为——\n\nBALDIGA 先生：我同意。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：——然后看看情况如何。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：好的。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：好吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n2 问：那么回到问答。Kwok 先生，您是否拥有 Genever Holdings Corporation（吉内弗控股公司）的权益？\n\n5 答：我只是拥有——实际上，我没有，但我只是代表我的家人持有一些权益。\n\n8 问：除您以外，是否有人获授权代表 Genever Holdings Corporation 行事？\n\n10 答：我的儿子。\n\n11 问：是否有文件记载您在 Genever Holdings Corporation 中的所有权权益，不论该权益为何？\n\n14 BALDIGA 先生：反对。您——您可以回答。\n\n16 证人：没有。\n\n17 私人口译员：Holley 女士，我可以——首先，上一次他在对证人就其证言应当如何作出指示时，我认为口译员——官方口译员没有翻译您的指示。他是在告诉证人应当做什么，而不是您所说的内容。\n\n24 私人口译员：然后，现在证人说，他两次问口译员——您谈论的是所有权，您谈论的是所有权权益。现在他两次使用了这些词，然后最后 Jeff 先生说，是。于是他回答没有，但随后该互动没有被翻译。\n\n6 CLAIBORN 女士：Jeff 先生，您能翻译吗？\n\n8 官方口译员：我不知道她刚才说了什么。我不知道。我没理解她在说什么。\n\n11 私人口译员：我的意思是，每一个词都应当被翻译。证人所说的每一个词都应当被翻译。Holley 女士所说的话也应当被翻译，对吗？\n\n15 CLAIBORN 女士：是。\n\n16 私人口译员：对。但是他没有翻译 Holley 女士的——而且您没有翻译 Kwok 先生所说的一切。\n\n19 官方口译员：好的。也许——也许我们应该让她来翻译。我将退出。我不知道——\n\n22 CLAIBORN 女士：我要把这个——\n\n23 官方口译员：——我不熟悉——\n\n25 CLAIBORN 女士：——我要把这件事——\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交日期 07/25/23 录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 24 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 暂停片刻。\n\n2 官方口译员：是，是，是。\n\n4 （休庭记录外）\n\n5 CLAIBORN 女士：好。短暂休息后，我们恢复记录。Kwok 先生，您仍在宣誓状态。\n\n8 由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n9 问：Kwok 先生，您今天随身携带任何美元吗？\n\n11 答：没有。\n\n12 问：您提交破产案件时，您是否拥有任何美元？\n\n14 答：没有。\n\n15 问：Kwok 先生，您是否拥有任何外币？\n\n16 答：没有。\n\n17 问：Kwok 先生，您是否拥有任何数字货币？\n\n18 答：没有。\n\n19 问：Kwok 先生，您在美国是否拥有任何种类的金融账户？\n\n21 答：没有。\n\n22 问：Kwok 先生，您在美国境外是否拥有任何种类的金融账户？\n\n24 答：没有。\n\n25 问：3 月 21 日，您作证称您没有工作，也没有收入来源。谁为您的——\n\n2 家庭开支？\n3 答\n有时是我的儿子，有时是我的妻子，或者\n4 有时是我的其他家庭成员。\n5 问\n您是否可以使用任何信用卡？\n6 答\n不可以。\n7 问\n您是否可以使用任何与银行账户关联的借记卡\n8 ？\n9 答\n不可以。\n10 问\n您如何支付杂货费用？\n11 答\n我的儿子、我的妻子、我家庭成员的\n12 公司支付。\n13 问\n您的儿子住在哪里？\n14 答\n伦敦。\n15 问\n您的儿子如何给您汇钱？\n16 答\n他在纽约有一家公司的家族办公室。\n17\n18 问\n该家族办公室给您钱吗？\n19 答\n他们支付上述开支。\n20 问\n“家族办公室”一词是什么意思？\n21 巴尔迪加先生：\n异议。您可以回答。\n22 官方口译员：\n我能否请求——\n23 请他重复一遍？\n24 克莱伯恩女士：\n可以。\n25 官方口译员：\n好的。您能否\n\n第134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日 -- 巴尔迪加先生：对。他还必须向证人翻译我所说的话。克莱伯恩女士：您还什么都没说，而他要请证人重复其回答，然后他会翻译，之后我们可以进行您想进行的任何讨论。私人口译员：律师提出了异议。口译员没有翻译该异议。克莱伯恩女士：我很乐意重复问题，但如果有人在基本问题上不断打断，我们今天将无法以有意义的方式取得任何进展。巴尔迪加先生：不，我没有打断，但是——克莱伯恩女士：那么让我再试一次。巴尔迪加先生：好的。但请等等。如果我提出异议或说其他任何话，那必须被翻译。克莱伯恩女士：您没有留出翻译的时间。那么，杰夫先生，您能否翻译刚才发生的那段交流？官方口译员：好的。我不知道。打断实在太多了。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 克莱伯恩女士：\n对。\n2 官方口译员：\n霍利，我不能——\n3 不能再这样继续下去了。我太分心了，而且我\n4 不知道。这只是一个简单的——请证人\n5 简单地重复一遍，然后——\n6 克莱伯恩女士：\n让我试着——\n7 官方口译员：\n——却把所有\n8 这些人都牵扯进来。\n9 克莱伯恩女士：\n没错。让我——\n10 官方口译员：\n我们不会\n11 有任何进展。\n12 克莱伯恩女士：\n让我再问一遍这个问题。\n13\n14 由克莱伯恩女士询问：\n15 问\n郭先生，您所说的\n16 “家族办公室”是什么意思？\n17 巴尔迪加先生：\n异议。您可以回答。\n18 克莱伯恩女士：\n巴尔迪加先生，这个术语\n19 在文件中到处都是。您能否重复——翻译？\n20 官方口译员：\n不，我不会\n21 继续了。霍利，我申请退出。我\n22 很抱歉。这——这不会——\n23 克莱伯恩女士：\n请暂停一下。\n24\n25 官方口译员：\n——这实在太\n\n第134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n1 多了。\n2 （停止记录）\n3 克莱伯恩女士：\n短暂休息后，我们恢复记录。\n4\n5 郭先生，您仍在宣誓之下。在休息期间，\n6 我与巴尔迪加律师交谈，我们已同意，\n7 就问题形式提出的所有异议\n8 均予以保留。\n9 我将回到我的问题。\n10 由克莱伯恩女士询问：\n11 问\n休息前我们停下来的问题是，\n12 您所说的“家族办公室”是什么意思？\n13 答\n他们代表我的大家庭。这是\n14 一家由我儿子、我女儿、我妻子组成的公司，也是\n15 一家代表我家庭进行投资的公司。\n16 问\n该公司的名称是什么？\n17 答\nGolden Spring Europe（欧洲金泉）。\n18 问\n您是指 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）吗？\n19 答\n名称大致如此。\n20 问\n您所吃饭食的费用由谁支付？\n21 答\n有时由我妻子的公司支付，有时由我的\n22 家族办公室、我儿子的公司支付。\n23 问\n郭先生，您使用“家族办公室”这个术语时，\n24 您是否指的是名为\n25 Golden Spring New York Limited（纽约金泉有限公司）的公司？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 官方口译员：\n该公司的名称\n2 是什么？我能否——您能重复一下吗？\n3 克莱伯恩女士：\n名称是 Golden Spring\n4 New York Limited（纽约金泉有限公司）。\n5 证人：\n是。\n6 由克莱伯恩女士询问：\n7 问\n在您的破产案件中，您提交了一份\n8 涵盖二月份开支的报告。\n9\n10 官方口译员：\n我可以再重复\n11 一遍吗？\n12 克莱伯恩女士：\n或许我再试一次。\n13 官方口译员：\n谢谢。\n14 由克莱伯恩女士询问：\n15 问\n郭先生，您提交了一份涵盖 2022年2月的月度经营\n16 报告，该报告显示您支出了约 \\$160,000。\n17\n18 巴尔迪加先生：\n异议。我提出异议。\n19 由克莱伯恩女士询问：\n20 问\n谁为 \\$160,000 的支出提供了资金？\n21 答\n部分来自 Golden Spring 家族办公室\n22 和该公司，部分由我的妻子和我\n23 妻子的公司支付。\n24 问\n您妻子的公司名称是什么？\n25 答\nGreenwich（格林尼治），位于 Connecticut（康涅狄格州）。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问\n您指的是公司吗？\n2 答\n是，公司的名称。\n3 问\n您妻子的公司 Greenwich 为哪些开支\n4 付款？\n5 答\n主要是食物，因为我住在我妻子的\n6 房子里。我们分担清洁费用、开支，因为\n7 ——还有花园维护费用。\n8 身份不明的发言者：\n好的。我们能否短暂停一下，\n9 让我与我的共同律师\n10 或我的合伙人谈谈？\n11 巴尔迪加先生：\n不，还是继续等吧。\n12 由克莱伯恩女士询问：\n13 问\n您妻子的公司 Greenwich 的资金\n14 来自哪里？\n15 答\n我不知道。\n16 问\n您妻子的公司 Greenwich 是否支付过\n17 任何专业费用？\n18 答\n我不知道。\n19 问\n您的妻子是否是实际进行付款的人？\n20\n21 答\n是。\n22 问\n您的妻子有支票账户吗？\n23 答\n我不知道。\n24 问\n您的妻子有借记卡吗？\n25 答\n我不知道。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 当您与妻子在餐厅用餐时，\n2 谁支付账单？\n3 答 我从未与我妻子去过餐厅。\n4 问 从来没有？\n5 答 我认为我被这些人追赶，所以我\n6 从未去过。我认为我——您知道，我认为我被\n7 这些人追赶。\n8 问 您的妻子购买杂货吗？\n9 答 有时。\n10 问 她如何支付？\n11 答 我不知道。\n12 问 为什么 Golden Spring New York 为您的\n13 部分个人开支付款？\n14 答 因为我是家庭成员之一，而且\n15 我的儿子非常成功，他非常爱我。\n16 问 还有其他原因吗？\n17 答 我不知道。\n18 问 Golden Spring 为您的哪些个人生活开支\n19 付款？\n20 答 因我被后面那些人追赶而产生的安保\n21 费用，以及\n22 交通、衣物和一些生活用品。\n23 问 Golden Spring New York 中的哪位人士——\n24\n25 克莱伯恩女士：\n等一下。我将要\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问一个完整的问题。\n2 由克莱伯恩女士询问：\n3 问\n那么，Golden Spring New York 中由谁授权支付\n4 您的个人生活开支？\n5\n6 答\n我的儿子。\n7 问\n请说明您的儿子如何授权\n8 这些付款。\n9 答\n我通常与 Golden Spring、\n10 该公司的董事和首席执行官沟通。\n11 私人口译员：\n（无法辨认）\n12 是董事，不是经理。\n13 官方口译员：\n您能否——\n14 好的。是董事，不是经理。\n15 巴尔迪加先生：\n谢谢。\n16 由克莱伯恩女士询问：\n17 问\n郭先生，您刚才提到的董事或经理\n18 是谁？\n19 答\nWang Yanping（王燕平）。\n20 问\nPing 女士是 Golden Spring New\n21 York 的高级职员吗？\n22 答\n她是一位女士。她是女性。\n23 问\nPing 女士是 Golden\n24 Spring New York 的公司高级职员吗？\n25 答\n是。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 她的职务是什么？\n2 答 她是高级职员或董事。\n3 问 她有职务头衔吗？\n4 答 我不知道。\n5 问 郭先生，您是 Golden Spring New York 的\n6 公司高级职员吗？\n7 答 现在吗？\n8 问 是。\n9 答 不是。\n10 问 郭先生，您过去是否曾是\n11 Golden Spring New York 的公司高级职员？\n12 答 该公司于 2015 年成立时，我似乎担任过\n13 一个职务。我忘记当时是什么职务了。\n14\n15 问 郭先生，您在 Golden Spring New York 中\n16 拥有任何权益吗？\n17 答 没有。\n18 问 过去您是否曾在 Golden Spring New York 中\n19 拥有任何形式的所有权权益？\n20 答 没有。\n21 问 您是否参与了 Golden Spring New York 的\n22 设立？\n23 答 是。\n24 问 您在 Golden Spring New York 的\n25 设立中担任什么角色？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交日期 07/25/23\n第134页 录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53 第34页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日 33\n1 答 担任顾问，并提供意见和建议。\n2 问 您的儿子是否参与了\n3 Golden Spring New York 的设立？\n4 答 他是主要负责人。他——他是\n5 主要负责人。\n6 问 Golden Spring New York 成立时，\n7 谁拥有 New York——Golden\n8 New——Golden Spring New York 的所有权权益？\n9 答 我的儿子。\n10 问 Golden Spring Hong Kong（香港金泉）在 Golden Spring New York 中\n11 拥有任何所有权权益吗？\n12 答 我不知道该权益的细节，\n13 而且因为这——这两者合并了，它们被\n14 视为一件事。\n15 问 Golden Spring Hong Kong 是否是与 Golden Spring New York\n16 不同的公司？\n17 答 我不知道。\n18 问 谁拥有 Golden Spring Hong Kong？\n19 答 我的儿子。\n20 问 在 2015 年 Golden Spring New York\n21 成立时，谁拥有 Golden Spring Hong Kong？\n22 答 我不知道。\n23 问 您是 Golden Spring\n24 Hong Kong 的公司高级职员吗？\n25 答 我不记得。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交日期 07/25/23\n第134页 录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日 34\n1 问\n您是否曾是 Golden Spring Hong Kong 的公司\n2 高级职员？\n3 答\n我不记得。\n4 问\n您在 Golden Spring Hong Kong 中拥有任何\n5 所有权权益吗？\n6 答\n没有。\n7 问\n您过去是否曾在 Golden Spring Hong Kong 中\n8 拥有所有权权益？\n9 答\n没有。\n10 问\nGolden Spring New York 从事何种\n11 业务？\n12 答\n我不知道。\n13 问\nGolden Spring New York 如何产生\n14 收入？\n15 答\n我不知道。\n16 私人口译员：霍利女士，我\n17 不知道这——他所说的（无法辨认）是否是\n18 Golden Spring New York 如何产生收入，\n19 而不是 Golden Spring New York 如何赚钱，\n20 对吗？\n21 克莱伯恩女士：那基本上就是我的\n22 问题。\n23 私人口译员：是的，所以\n24 口译员不应当说——以那种方式翻译，即 Golden Spring New York——如何\n\n第134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n1 赚钱，向——向——向\n2 郭先生翻译。\n3 官方口译员：\n产生金钱，\n4 是的。产生收入，产生金钱。\n5 私人口译员：\n不，但您说——\n6\n7 克莱伯恩女士：\n我很乐意\n8 具体地问。\n9 由克莱伯恩女士询问：\n10 问\nGolden Spring New York 如何\n11 赚钱？\n12 答\n我不知道。\n13 问\n在 2015 年，您是否参与了\n14 Golden Spring New York 的业务？\n15 答\n我不记得。\n16 问\n您是否曾向 Golden Spring New York\n17 赠送过金钱？\n18 答\n没有。\n19 问\n您是否曾向 Golden Spring New York\n20 支付过任何金钱？\n21 答\n没有。\n22 问\n您是否曾向 Golden Spring New York 转让过\n23 任何种类的财产？\n24 答\n没有。\n25 问\n您是否曾以任何方式为 Golden Spring New\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 York 提供资金？\n2 答 没有。\n3 问 您是否曾向 Golden\n4 Spring New York 出借过金钱？\n5 答 没有。\n6 问 您是否曾将自己的任何资金投资于\n7 Golden Spring New York？\n8 答 没有。\n9 问 Yanping Wang 担任什么\n10 公司职务？\n11 答 高级职员和董事。\n12 问 Yanping Wang 是 Golden\n13 Spring New York 的总裁吗？\n14 答 是。\n15 问 Golden Spring New York 有其他\n16 公司高级职员吗？\n17 答 有。\n18 问 他们是谁？\n19 答 我不清楚记得他们的\n20 姓名。\n21 问 请告诉我您记得的内容。\n22 答 什么——我不清楚记得他们的姓名，\n23 而且——因为我甚至不记得\n24 律师的姓名。我不想误导您，\n25 霍利。\n\n问 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）有多少名高级管理人员？\n\n答 我不记得了。哦，我不知道。\n\n抱歉。我不知道。\n\n问 Golden Spring New York 有董事吗？\n\n答 Yanping Wang（王艳萍）。\n\n问 Wang 女士是 Golden Spring New York 唯一的董事吗？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 Golden Spring New York 从哪里取得用于支付您个人开支的资金？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 Golden Spring New York 有雇员吗？\n\n答 有。\n\n问 有多少名？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 您目前是否以任何方式参与 Golden Spring New York 的业务？\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 Golden Spring New York 拥有什么资产？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 Golden Spring New York 愿意向您出借 $8 million。它从哪里取得这 $8 million？\n\n案号 22-50073\n文件 2032-29\n提交 07/25/23\n登记 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 39 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵） - April 6, 2022\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 是您要求 Golden Spring New York 向您出借 $8 million 的吗？\n\n答 不是。\n\n问 是谁要求 Golden Spring New York 向您出借 $8 million 的？\n\n答 我的律师。\n\n问 哪一位律师？\n\n答 在场的 Aaron Mitchell（艾伦·米切尔）。\n\n问 您指的是 Aaron Mitchell 吗？\n\n答 现在我想起他的名字了。\n\n身份不明的发言者：为记录起见，我不确定 Mitchell 先生是否已登记出庭。如果他将在此代表债务人，适当的做法是他登记出庭。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士（克莱伯恩）：我相信我今天早些时候确实念到了 Mitchell 先生的名字。\n\n身份不明的发言者：他尚未提交——\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：他确实签署了——\n\n身份不明的发言者：——本案的出庭登记。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：谢谢。您能翻译一下吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交 07/25/23\n登记 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵） - April 6, 2022\n\n官方口译员：我没有完全听清。我知道距离有些远。我没有——\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问 Golden Spring New York 有银行账户吗？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 您是否可以使用 Golden Spring New York 的财务账户？\n\n答 不可以。\n\n问 您是否有权代表 Golden Spring New York 进行金融交易？\n\n答 不可以。\n\n私人口译员：不，不是这个问题。\n\n官方口译员：是什么问题？\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：我很乐意重复这个问题。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问 您是否有权代表 Golden Spring New York 进行金融交易？Kwok 先生，如果您不回答——如果您不理解我的问题——\n\n官方口译员：他在问是否——\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交 07/25/23\n登记 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵） - April 6, 2022\n\n——他——我是否在问他是否有权使用——Golden Spring New York 的账户进行交易。您知道。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：那不是我的问题。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问 Kwok 先生，您是否获授权代表 Golden Spring New York 进行任何种类的金融交易？\n\n答 不可以。\n\nBALDIGA 先生（巴尔迪加）：抱歉，口译员可能有意见。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：请您翻译一下，好吗？\n\n官方口译员：是。她说这是交易——金融交易的交易——\n\n私人口译员：交易。\n\n官方口译员：——交易——\n\n私人口译员：不是交易买卖。\n\n官方口译员：他说，不，他没有——我没有获授权进行交易、金融交易。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问 您目前为 Golden Spring New York 做什么工作，如有的话？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交 07/25/23\n登记 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵） - April 6, 2022\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 Golden Spring New York 是否资助您儿子的个人生活开支？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 Golden Spring New York 是否资助您女儿的个人生活开支？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 您是否欠 Golden Spring New York 任何款项？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 多少？\n\n答 大约超过 $21 million。\n\n问 您如何会欠 Golden Spring New York 超过 $21 million？\n\n答 因为在过去五年中，我被许多债权人起诉。\n\n问 Golden Spring New York——\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：我很抱歉。\n\n官方口译员：我只是请他重复一遍。\n\n证人：在过去五年中，我遭到中国共产党的追逼。\n\n官方口译员：我没有听清。请——我请他再重复一次。\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵） - April 6, 2022 第 134 页中的一页\n\nBALDIGA 先生：简短——简短回答。\n\n证人：在过去五年中，我被中国共产党设计的一些案件困住——困住，包括过去的那个案件。我需要——需要支付大笔律师费，所以我得到了 Golden Spring New York 的支持。这是我欠 $21 million 的主要原因。\n\n私人口译员：口译员漏掉了律师——律师费。\n\n官方口译员：是的，我说了律师费。我说了。我的确说了律师费吗？\n\n私人口译员：我不这么认为，但既然您这么说。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问 $21 million 中有多少属于律师费？\n\n官方口译员：您能再重复一遍吗？\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问 $21 million 中有多少——\n\n官方口译员：好的。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交 07/25/23\n登记 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵） - April 6, 2022\n\n问 ——属于律师费？\n\n答 我认为其中大部分是律师费。\n\n问 Golden Spring New York 为什么支付您的律师费？\n\n答 因为 Golden Spring New York 是我儿子和我家人的公司，他们非常爱我。他们希望——他们希望我活着，而不是被我身后的人杀害。\n\n问 您与 Golden Spring New York 有任何书面协议吗？\n\n答 有。\n\n问 什么法律——抱歉。您与 Golden Spring New York 有哪些书面协议？\n\n答 是借款——借款协议。\n\n问 您何时订立该借款协议？\n\n答 几年前。我知道——我不知道大致时间。\n\n私人口译员：我不记得。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：什么——\n\n官方口译员：什么——是的，我不记得时间。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问 您与 Golden Spring New York 所订法律协议的条款是什么？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交 07/25/23 登记 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 45 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵） - April 6, 2022\n\n抱歉。让我重新表述。您与 Golden Spring New York 所订书面协议的条款是什么？\n\n答 我不记得。\n\n身份不明的发言者：抱歉。您能重复一下英文吗？\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：请继续说那个——重复。\n\n官方口译员：我不记得。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问 根据您与 Golden Spring New York 的该书面协议，您是否有义务偿还全部款项？\n\n答 是。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：问题还有后半部分。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问 Golden Spring 代表您支付给律师的款项。\n\n答 是。\n\n私人口译员：只是口译上有一处——听不清的差异。例如，口译员没有翻译“根据该协议，您是否有义务把全部——”\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交 07/25/23\n登记 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵） - April 6, 2022\n\n——钱偿还”。全部款项，即，您知道——\n\nBALDIGA 先生：好的。\n\n私人口译员：——花在律师上的款项。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：也许 Holley 可以澄清一下。\n\n私人口译员：是的。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问 我要问一个很长的问题。我会把它分成几个部分。\n\nKwok 先生，您是否有义务向 Golden Spring New York 偿还 Golden Spring New York 代表您支付给律师的全部款项？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 您与 Golden Spring New York 的该协议是书面的吗？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 那是否就是您几分钟前提到的同一份书面协议？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 您与 Golden Spring New York 是否有不止一份书面协议？\n\n答 是。\n\n第 134 页中的一页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵） - April 6, 2022\n\n问 您与 Golden Spring New York 的其他书面协议是什么？\n\n答 在过去一周，我与 Logan Cheng（郑乐成）有一个案件。与 Logan Cheng 的和解，为——用于和解的款项是我从 Golden Spring New York 借来的钱。\n\n问 您与 Golden Spring New York 是否还有其他书面协议？\n\n答 我不记得。\n\n问 Golden Spring New York 是否与任何在诉讼中代表您的律师订有费用协议？\n\n您能——您能回答吗，Kwok 先生？\n\n官方口译员：任何与——您能再重复一遍吗？\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问 Golden Spring New York 是否与任何在诉讼中代表 Kwok 先生的律师订有——任何种类的费用协议？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 在您于伦敦对 UBS（瑞银）提起的诉讼中，谁代表您？\n\n答 伦敦的律师——律师事务所。\n\n问 名称是什么？\n\n答 我不完全记得英文名称。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交 07/25/23 登记 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 48 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵） - April 6, 2022\n\n问 Golden Spring New York 是否与伦敦的那位律师订有费用协议？\n\n答 应当有。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：抱歉。回答是什么？\n\n官方口译员：应当有。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问 您知道它是否有——是否订有费用协议吗？\n\n答 我不确定。\n\n问 Golden Spring New York 中是谁授权支付您的诉讼费用？\n\n答 我儿子。\n\n问 您儿子为了将 Golden Spring New York 的钱用于您的利益，是否必须与其他人交谈？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 您儿子需要与谁交谈？\n\n答 他需要与我的家庭成员交谈，其中包括 100 多名家庭成员，因为他们有一个基金。\n\n私人口译员：那个——人数是 181。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交 07/25/23\n登记 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵） - April 6, 2022\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问 Kwok 先生，如果您儿子想给您 $100，他是否必须向 Golden Spring New York 的某人寻求授权？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 当您说您儿子必须与 Golden Spring New York 的某人交谈时，他需要与多少人交谈？\n\n答 我不知道具体情况。\n\n问 就 Golden Spring New York 愿意向您出借的 $8 million 而言，您儿子是否必须取得 Golden Spring New York 其他人员对该交易的同意？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 您是否曾去过 Golden Spring New York 位于纽约市的办公室？\n\n答 去过。\n\n问 您多常去 Golden Spring New York 位于纽约市的办公室？\n\n答 不——不固定。有时我一个月去那里几次。有时我——我几个月没去过那里。\n\n问 您上一次去 Golden Spring New York 办公室是什么时候？\n\n答 昨天。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交 07/25/23\n登记 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵） - April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 你为什么去？\n\n2 答 为了准备今天的会议。\n\n3 问 你儿子是否就 $8 million 贷款与 Yanping Wang（王雁平）交谈过？\n\n4 答 我不知道。\n\n5 问 你是否就来自 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）的 $8 million 贷款协商过条款？\n\n6 答 没有。\n\n7 问 代表你协商该 $8 million 贷款的人是谁？\n\n8 答 我的律师。\n\n9 问 哪位律师？\n\n10 答 Aaron Mitchell（艾伦·米切尔）。\n\n11 问 律师 Aaron Mitchell（艾伦·米切尔）在 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）与谁协商？\n\n12 法庭指定口译员：您能重复一下吗？\n\n13 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n14 问 律师 Aaron Mitchell（艾伦·米切尔）在 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）与谁协商？\n\n15 答 我不知道。我的儿子。\n\n16 问 你是否于 February 2022 向 Lamp Capital, LLC（蓝普资本有限责任公司）借入 $1 million？\n\n17 答 是。\n\n18 问 来自 Lamp Capital, LLC（蓝普资本有限责任公司）的该笔贷款是否有书面文件？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23 录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 51 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 50\n\n1 答 没有。\n\n2 问 来自 Lamp Capital（蓝普资本）的贷款条款是什么？\n\n3 答 我不知道细节。\n\n4 问 Lamp Capital, LLC（蓝普资本有限责任公司）的成员是谁？\n\n5 答 我的儿子。\n\n6 问 Lamp Capital, LLC（蓝普资本有限责任公司）是否还有其他成员？\n\n7 答 我不知道。\n\n8 问 Lamp Capital, LLC（蓝普资本有限责任公司）的管理成员是谁？\n\n9 答 我不知道。\n\n10 问 Lamp Capital（蓝普资本）中授权该笔贷款的人是谁？\n\n11 答 我的儿子。\n\n12 问 Lamp Capital, LLC（蓝普资本有限责任公司）的资产是什么？\n\n13 答 我不知道。\n\n14 问 Lamp Capital（蓝普资本）拥有什么？\n\n15 答 我不知道。\n\n16 问 你是否曾以任何方式向 Lamp Capital（蓝普资本）注资？\n\n17 答 没有。\n\n18 问 你是否曾向 Lamp Capital, LLC（蓝普资本有限责任公司）投资任何资金？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23\n录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 没有。\n\n2 问 为什么 Lamp Capital（蓝普资本）向你提供 $1 million 贷款，而不是 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）？\n\n3 答 我不知道。\n\n4 问 Lamp Capital（蓝普资本）借给你的 $1 million 的来源是什么？\n\n5 答 我不知道。\n\n6 克莱伯恩女士：我们休息五分钟去洗手间怎么样？实际上，我们在 12:10 恢复进行。\n\n7 （休庭）\n\n8 克莱伯恩女士：短暂休息后，我们恢复记录。Kwok 先生，您仍在宣誓状态下。\n\n9 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n10 问 Kwok 先生，你是否参与选择在伦敦诉讼中代理你的律师？\n\n11 答 是。\n\n12 问 你在伦敦的律师是否要求预付律师费？\n\n13 答 是。\n\n14 问 你是否向你在伦敦的律师支付了预付律师费？\n\n15 答 是。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23\n第 53 页（共 134 页） 录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 52\n\n1 问 多少？\n\n2 答 300,000 pound。\n\n3 问 该笔 300,000 pound 的预付律师费是在何时支付的？\n\n4 答 大约两年前。\n\n5 问 谁提供了该笔预付律师费的资金？\n\n6 答 我儿子帮忙支付了——支付了那笔钱。\n\n7 问 你儿子是否支付了全部预付律师费？\n\n8 答 是。\n\n9 问 你儿子是否用其个人资金支付了预付律师费？\n\n10 答 应该是由英格兰的一家公司支付的。\n\n11 问 支付预付律师费的公司的名称是什么？\n\n12 答 我不记得了。\n\n13 问 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）是否向你在伦敦的律师支付了预付律师费？\n\n14 答 我不记得细节，因为除预付律师费外，还有其他——此后还有几笔付款。\n\n15 问 Kwok 先生，如果你想买一双鞋，你会如何支付这双鞋的钱？\n\n16 答 我会要求 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）支付。\n\n17 问 该流程会如何进行？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23\n录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 我会与董事和 E Wa Wang（王怡华，音译）交谈，请她联系——与我儿子交谈，并支付鞋款。\n\n2 问 鞋店如何收到钱？鞋店。\n\n3 答 我不知道。通常是 E Wa Wang（王怡华，音译）沟通，因为我的英语能力不足以沟通。\n\n4 问 如果你去一家商店，试穿鞋子，并想从店里把鞋子带回家，你会如何支付鞋款？\n\n5 答 近几年，我基本上从未买过一双鞋。\n\n6 问 你最后一次支付的东西是什么？\n\n7 答 最近，我没有去买任何东西。\n\n8 Baldiga 先生：抱歉。您能重复一下吗？\n\n9 法庭指定口译员：最近，我没有去买任何东西。\n\n10 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n11 问 我的问题不是最近。我的问题是，你最后购买的东西是什么？\n\n12 答 我不记得。\n\n13 问 你曾在餐馆用餐吗？\n\n14 答 近年来，没有。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23 录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 55 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 在 COVID 19 之前，你是否在餐馆用餐？\n\n2 答 极少，因为我害怕被身后的人杀害，因为我一直处于被追逐的过程中。\n\n3 问 当你在餐馆用餐时，你是支付账单的人吗？\n\n4 答 我没有钱支付，所以我不去那里。\n\n5 问 Kwok 先生，如果你想买一杯咖啡，你会如何支付？\n\n6 答 我从未买过一杯咖啡。我——我害怕身后的人可能会在咖啡里给我下毒。\n\n7 问 Kwok 先生，如果你想买水，你在外面，想买水，你会如何支付？\n\n8 答 嗯，自 2107 起，我不——我没有出去买水。\n\n9 私人口译员：语义细微差别存在一个（听不清）差异。\n\n10 法庭指定口译员：您能——您能重复一下吗——您能重复——\n\n11 证人：自 2017 起，我从未出去、四处走动，然后买水或咖啡。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23\n录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n2 问 Kwok 先生，你在任何共同基金中拥有任何权益吗？\n\n3 答 没有。\n\n4 问 你拥有任何债券吗？\n\n5 答 没有。\n\n6 问 你拥有任何公司的公开交易股票吗？\n\n7 答 没有。\n\n8 问 你拥有任何汽车吗？\n\n9 答 没有。\n\n10 问 你可以使用任何汽车吗？\n\n11 答 可以。\n\n12 问 你可以使用谁的汽车？\n\n13 答 我儿子的和 Golden Springs（黄金泉）的。\n\n14 问 Golden Spring（黄金泉）是否向你提供一辆供你使用的汽车？\n\n15 答 是。\n\n16 问 那是什么类型的汽车？\n\n17 答 Maybach（迈巴赫）。\n\n18 私人口译员：Maybach（迈巴赫）。\n\n19 法庭指定口译员：嗯？\n\n20 私人口译员：Maybach（迈巴赫）。\n\n21 法庭指定口译员：Maybach（迈巴赫）？好的。我不知道它的名称。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23\n录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 证人：Maybach（迈巴赫）。\n\n2 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n3 问 Kwok 先生，你有驾驶执照吗？\n\n4 答 我有香港驾驶执照。\n\n5 问 你在美国开车吗？\n\n6 答 几乎不开。\n\n7 问 当你开车时，你开谁的车？\n\n8 答 Golden Spring（黄金泉）的。\n\n9 问 你在格林尼治住所停放着一辆车吗？\n\n10 答 是。\n\n11 问 那是什么车？\n\n12 答 Maybach（迈巴赫）。\n\n13 问 你拥有任何飞机吗？\n\n14 答 没有。\n\n15 问 你曾拥有任何飞机吗？\n\n16 答 以前有。\n\n17 问 你何时拥有飞机？\n\n18 答 大概从 2010 到 2016。\n\n19 问 你拥有多少架飞机？\n\n20 答 一架。\n\n21 问 是什么飞机？\n\n22 答 Airbus 319（空中客车 319）。319。\n\n23 问 那架 Airbus 319（空中客车 319）后来怎么样了？\n\n24 答 它被 UBS（瑞银）和中国共产党没收了。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23 录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 58 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 好的。你拥有任何船只吗？\n\n2 答 没有。\n\n3 问 谁拥有名为 Lady May（“五月花”号）的游艇？\n\n4 答 我的女儿。\n\n5 问 你女儿是否以其个人名义拥有 Lady May（“五月花”号）？\n\n6 答 应该是由一家公司拥有。\n\n7 问 拥有 Lady May（“五月花”号）的公司的名称是什么？\n\n8 答 我不知道。\n\n9 问 Lady May（“五月花”号）目前在哪里？\n\n10 答 我不知道。\n\n11 问 自提交破产申请以来，你是否要求你女儿将 Lady May（“五月花”号）返还纽约？\n\n12 答 我确实要求过她，并要求她与其律师交谈，将该船返还纽约。\n\n13 问 你何时进行过该次谈话？\n\n14 答 上个月，开庭日之后。在与你会面之后。\n\n15 问 你女儿说了什么？\n\n16 答 她说她会与其律师交谈，然后与我的律师交谈。\n\n17 问 你女儿是否同意将 Lady May（“五月花”号）返还纽约？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23 录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 59 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（共 134 页）\n\n1 答 她不愿意与我详细交谈。她想——她想与她的律师交谈。\n\n2 问 你女儿是否对你要求她将 Lady May（“五月花”号）返还纽约的请求说了不？\n\n3 答 没有，他没有——她没有。\n\n4 私人口译员：该问题未被完整口译。\n\n5 法庭指定口译员：我知道，但她——她已经——他已经回答了，而且——\n\n6 Baldiga 先生：等他讲完。\n\n7 证人：没有，他——没有。\n\n8 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n9 问 Kwok 先生，你拥有或在任何信托中拥有权益吗？\n\n10 答 没有。\n\n11 问 你是任何信托的受益人吗？\n\n12 答 没有。\n\n13 问 这是一个较长的问题。Kwok 先生，在你针对 Baosheng Guo（郭宝胜）的诉讼中向你支付的 $12,000 支票在哪里？\n\n14 答 在律师的托管账户里。\n\n15 问 持有该支票的律师叫什么名字？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23 录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 60 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 我无法完整念出该律师的名字。\n\n2 问 该律师的名字是什么？\n\n3 答 我不能——我无法读出——读出他的名字。\n\n4 问 持有该支票的律师是否是该诉讼中代理你的同一位律师？\n\n5 答 应该是。\n\n6 问 在你的附表 A-B 中，你没有披露那张 $12,000 支票。为什么？\n\n7 Baldiga 先生：等问题。没有。他能口译吗？\n\n8 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n9 问 你为什么没有披露那张 $12,000 支票？\n\n10 答 我的律师认为，因为该笔钱不在我的账户中，所以我不被允许——我们不——我不应当披露它。\n\n11 问 好的。Kwok 先生，你有任何专利吗？\n\n12 答 没有。\n\n13 问 你有任何版权吗？\n\n14 答 没有。\n\n15 问 你有任何种类的知识产权吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23 录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 61 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（共 134 页）\n\n1 答 没有。\n\n2 Baldiga 先生：不好意思。Holley（霍莉），我不确定你是否会再谈到此事，但其中提到了 $12,000。\n\n3 克莱伯恩女士：我看到了。\n\n4 Baldiga 先生：哦，你说他没有披露。\n\n5 克莱伯恩女士：他没有。这不是对附表 A-B 中问题的回应。\n\n6 Baldiga 先生：它就在那儿。\n\n7 克莱伯恩女士：我们可以就其是否已披露持不同意见，但我的立场是它没有被披露。我理解你可能采取不同立场。\n\n8 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n9 问 Kwok 先生，你拥有一家名为 Ace Decade Holdings Limited（艾斯十年控股有限公司）的公司中的任何权益吗？\n\n10 答 是。\n\n11 问 你对 Ace Decade Holdings Limited（艾斯十年控股有限公司）的所有权权益性质是什么？\n\n12 答 因此，我拥有该权益，并要求 UBS（瑞银）返还 $500 million。就是那种权益。\n\n13 问 你是否是 Ace Decade Holdings Limited（艾斯十年控股有限公司）的唯一法定所有人？\n\n14 法庭指定口译员：你是否是唯一——您能重复一下该问题吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交于 07/25/23\n录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 唯一——您能重复一下该问题吗？\n\n2 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n3 问 你是否是 Ace Decades（艾斯十年）的唯一法定所有人？\n\n4 答 我是法定代表所有人。\n\n5 问 Ace Decade（艾斯十年）是否有其他所有人？\n\n6 答 没有。\n\n7 问 你何时成为 Ace Decade Holdings Limited（艾斯十年控股有限公司）的所有人？\n\n8 答 2014 年底。\n\n9 问 这是一个较长的问题。在你于伦敦针对 UBS（瑞银）的诉讼中，你是个人原告。你作为个人原告提出请求的依据是什么？\n\n10 答 因为我是 Ace Decade（艾斯十年）的 100 percent 代表人。\n\n11 问 在伦敦针对 UBS（瑞银）的诉讼中，有一项指称称 Ace Decade（艾斯十年）向 Dawn State Limited（道恩州有限公司）提供了 $500 million。Ace Decade（艾斯十年）从哪里获得该 $500 million？\n\n12 答 我向我的家人借款。\n\n13 问 你是否从家人处借钱并将其交给 Ace Decade（艾斯十年）？\n\n14 答 是。\n\n15 克莱伯恩女士：我认为那不是——\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 我们重新开始吧，因为我认为刚才那不是——\n2 那不是——\n3 私人口译员：\n是的，我认为\n4 那是——\n5 CLAIBORN 女士：\n——那就是问题，\n6 因为那并不涉及 Dawn State（道恩州）——\n7 私人口译员：\n是。\n8 CLAIBORN 女士：\n——所以我要重新\n9 开始。\n10 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n11 问：你从哪里得到钱交给 Ace Decade（艾斯十年公司），那 500 million？\n13 BALDIGA 先生：\n我不认为他说过他做了\n14 那件事。我认为他说的是他的家人做了那件事，但你\n15 可以问这个问题，不过我——\n16 证人：\n来自我的家人。\n17 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n18 问：具体是你家里的谁给了你\n19 钱，随后你又把钱给了 Ace Decade？\n20 答：John Way（约翰·韦）（发音不确定）。\n21 问：John Way 是谁？\n22 答：我的一位家庭成员。\n23 问：他是你的亲属吗？\n24 答：他是我哥哥的表亲，或者——\n25 私人口译员：\n女婿。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 Page 64\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 官方口译员：\n女婿？\n2 好的。抱歉。\n3 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n4 问：在你的附表 A-B 中，你列出了一项可能针对 Boise Schiller（博伊斯·席勒）的执业过失索赔。你\n5 能否解释一下那是什么？\n7 答：他是那个——他是那个\n8 在纽约代理我对 UBS（瑞银）提起诉讼的人。\n9 他向法院提交了许多强制性文件，\n10 而且未经我的许可。他还威胁了我的\n11 家人。他还在饮酒后威胁我本人。\n12 他给我们造成了许多损失，包括在将任何\n13 英中文译文件提交给——\n14 律师或法官之前，没有先提供给我。\n15 这就是我——这就是我们起诉他的原因。\n16 问：你是否聘请了律师在该执业过失诉讼中\n17 代理你？\n18 答：我儿子正在处理\n19 这件事。\n20 问：为什么你儿子正在就你的\n21 执业过失索赔与律师沟通？\n22 答：因为我需要向他借钱。\n23 问：是否已经选定律师？\n24 答：还没有。\n25 问：Kwok 先生，除 Ace Decade 外，你是否拥有任何\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 公司的权益？\n2 答：没有，但是——我拥有 Bravo Luck（布拉沃·拉克），那套\n3 公寓，仅几个月，拥有部分\n4 权益。由于该公寓是合作公寓，所以\n5 在我——\n6 在我们买下公寓后，他们用我的名字购买该公寓，然后我们又将\n7 股权返还了。\n8 身份不明的发言人：\n抱歉。他一定\n9 说了 30、40 秒。显然说的\n10 不止这些。能否提供更完整的翻译？\n11 官方口译员：\n我是否漏掉了\n12 什么？\n13 CLAIBORN 女士：\n让我看看能否\n14 追问一下。\n15 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n16 问：Kwok 先生，你目前是否拥有\n17 Bravo Luck 的权益？\n18 答：没有。\n19 问：Kwok 先生，你是否拥有任何\n20 有限责任公司的权益？\n21 答：没有。\n22 问：Kwok 先生，你是否拥有任何\n23 合伙企业的权益？\n24 答：我以前拥有一家飞机公司，名为\n25 Orange（奥兰治）或 Shiny Time（闪耀时光），但那是在以前，而且\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29\nFiled 07/25/23\nEntered 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 现在已不复存在。\n2 问：Kwok 先生，你目前是否拥有任何合伙企业\n3 的权益？\n4 答：没有。\n5 问：Kwok 先生，你目前是否拥有任何合资企业\n6 的权益？\n7 答：没有。\n8 问：除 Ace Decade 外，你现在是否拥有\n9 任何其他公司的权益？\n10 答：没有。我以前只拥有 Orange 和 Shiny\n11 Time，但现在不拥有。\n12 问：Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）是否对你的任何诉讼\n13 享有担保权益？\n14 答：我欠他们钱。\n15 问：你是否已向 Golden Spring New\n16 York 授予你任何资产、任何你拥有之物的\n17 任何权益？\n18 答：没有。\n19 问：所以，如果你赢得针对\n20 Golden Spring 的诉讼——抱歉。名字错了。所以，如果你\n21 赢得针对 UBS 的诉讼，你赢得的任何款项中\n22 是否有任何部分必须支付给 Golden Spring？\n23 答：是。\n24 问：那会是多少？\n25 答：此前是 2,200 1 million，或者——\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29\nFiled 07/25/23\nEntered 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 私人口译员：\n21 million。\n2 证人：\n21 million。21 million，并且\n3 现在加上。大概是 300 million。\n4 million。或者 30 million。是的。\n5 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n6 问：是否有文件说明你收到的任何\n7 诉讼胜诉款都需要支付给\n8 Golden Spring？\n9 答：有。\n10 问：该文件的名称是什么？\n11 官方口译员：\n我要请他\n12 重复一遍。\n13 我没听到。我刚才请他分开\n14 说，然后我没有听到什么——\n15 证人：\n我在 DC（哥伦比亚特区）有一个案件。有一家\n16 律师事务所代理我申请政治\n17 庇护，而该事务所遭到了来自\n18 中国共产党的网络攻击，因此他们——该律师\n19 事务所关闭了，并且他们将我的个人\n20 信息交给了共产党，然后我起诉了\n21 他们。该诉讼费用、律师费，\n22 来自 Golden Spring New York。\n23 我请求 50,000——$50 million 的\n24 索赔。如果我赢得那笔钱，我将把钱还给 Golden Springs，作为他们支持\n25 我的律师费的款项。\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 私人口译员：\nKwok 先生没有\n2 说和解。Kwok 先生只是说，为了一项索赔，而不是\n3 和解。\n5 官方口译员：\n你正在请求\n6 $50 million。是的。他为\n7 该诉讼请求 $50 million，如果他赢得——如果他赢得该笔钱，\n8 那么他将把钱返还给 Golden\n9 Spring New York。\n10 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n11 问：我的问题是，你根据哪一份文件\n12 向 Golden Spring 偿还你的\n13 诉讼款项？\n14 答：该文件是我——的文件。\n15 官方口译员：\n你能重复一下\n16 那个吗？\n17 证人：\n该协议是——就是该\n18 协议，我从 Golden Spring\n19 New York 借钱起诉该律师事务所。\n20 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n21 问：该协议的名称是什么？\n22 答：我不记得。\n23 问：它是一份本票吗？\n24 答：我不记得。\n25 问：它是一份合同吗？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23\nEntered 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 答：我记不太清楚。\n2 问：谁起草了该文件？\n3 答：律师。\n4 问：起草该文件的律师叫什么名字？\n6 答：Melissa（梅丽莎）。\n7 问：Melissa 的姓氏是什么？\n8 答：我不知道。\n9 问：律师 Melissa 是否在起草该文件时\n10 代理你？\n11 答：是。\n12 问：谁在起草该文件时\n13 代理 Golden Spring？\n14 答：我不知道。\n15 问：Golden Spring 是否有律师？\n16 答：有。\n17 问：你只是不记得是谁？\n18 答：他们有很多律师。\n19 问：你据以欠 Golden Spring New York 款项的书面协议\n20 是否不止一份？\n21 答：是。\n22 问：有多少份协议？\n23 答：大概两三份，或三四份。我\n24 记不太清楚。\n25 问：是否有人记录你\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 Page 70\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 从 Golden Spring New York 借款的金额？\n2 答：我的律师会把它写下来。我们会记录\n3 下来。\n4 问：那位律师叫什么名字？\n5 答：Aaron Mitchell（亚伦·米切尔）。\n6 问：你说的是 Aaron Mitchell 吗？\n7 答：哦，是。\n8 问：Aaron Mitchell 如何记录你从 Golden Spring New\n9 York 借款的\n10 金额？\n11 答：具体而言，我不知道。\n12 问：Golden Spring New York 的任何雇员是否记录\n13 你从 Golden Spring New York\n14 借款的金额？\n15 答：我不知道。\n16 问：你是否曾见过律师 Aaron Mitchell 出具的\n17 文件，显示你欠 Golden Spring New York\n18 多少钱？\n19 答：这件事我——这是我和我的律师之间的事情，\n20 我不应回答。\n21 BALDIGA 先生：\n我能——我是说——\n22 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我不认为这个问题\n23 涉及——\n24 BALDIGA 先生：\n你可以——\n25 CLAIBORN 女士：\n——特权性回答。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 Page 71\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 of 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 BALDIGA 先生：\n那——给我一点时间。\n2 你可以对上一个问题回答“是”或“否”，所以如果\n3 你再问一次，我认为他会回答“是”或“否”，\n4 然后我们可以一步一步来。\n5 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n6 问：你是否曾见过 Mitchell 律师起草的\n7 文件，显示你从 Golden Spring 借了\n8 多少钱？\n9 BALDIGA 先生：\n等等。等等，我的指示\n10 需要被翻译。\n11 官方口译员：\n什么？\n12 CLAIBORN 女士：\n你能——\n13 BALDIGA 先生：\n你需要指示——\n14 CLAIBORN 女士：\n请直接说出来，\n15 他会重新翻译。\n16 BALDIGA 先生：\n请告诉证人——我告诉证人，\n17 他只能回答“是”\n18 或“否”。\n19 证人：\n是。\n20 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我还有其他问题，但\n21 鉴于现在的时间，我认为我们可以\n22 短暂休息，然后重新开庭，让债权人\n23 有机会提问。\n24 我建议我们在 1:15 重新开庭。\n25 BALDIGA 先生：\n可以吗？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23\nof 134 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 Page 72\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 71\n\n1 CLAIBORN 女士：\n好的。谢谢。我们将在\n2 1:15 重新开庭。\n3 （休庭。）\n4 CLAIBORN 女士：\n录音已恢复。我们在短暂\n5 休息后恢复开庭，Kwok 先生，你仍在宣誓之下。\n7 此时，Wolman 先生有一些\n8 问题要问你，Kwok 先生。\n9 WOLMAN 先生询问：\n10 问：下午好，Kwok 先生。\n11 3 月 21 日，我问了你一些\n12 有关先前证言的问题，具体是\n13 关于你曾援引《美国宪法》\n14 第五修正案权利的次数。\n15 2021 年 4 月 1 日，你是否因任何罪行\n16 而受到调查？\n17 官方口译员：\n4 月 21 日？\n18 WOLMAN 先生：\n2021 年 4 月 1 日。\n19 官方口译员：\n先生，你能重复\n20 那个问题吗？\n21 问：你是否因任何罪行而受到调查？\n22 答：来自 SET——美国 SET，以及他们正在\n23 调查 GTV（郭媒体），他们可以与我们的\n24 律师沟通。\n25 问：你指的是 Securities and\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 Page 73\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n证券交易委员会吗？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：他们究竟在调查什么？\n\nBALDIGA 先生：异议。我需要问这是否会披露受特权保护的信息。你对上一个问题的回答是否会是从你的律师处获得的信息？\n\n私人口译员：我能否——\n\n官方口译员：她想帮忙。\n\n私人口译员：因为他没有——\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：我认为你们应当再试一次。Baldiga 先生，也许你可以重复一遍，Jack 先生，你可以再试一次。\n\n官方口译员：你能重复一下你想说的话吗？\n\nBALDIGA 先生：Wolman 先生问你，你因何事受到调查。你所知道的信息，是否是由你的律师提供给你的？\n\n证人：是。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：而要回答这个问题，你是否必须披露你的律师告诉你的内容？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 Page 74\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n律师？\n\n官方口译员：必须被什么？披露？\n\nBALDIGA 先生：你是否必须说出你的律师告诉你的内容？\n\n证人：是。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：那么，我指示证人基于律师—委托人特权不予回答。\n\nWOLMAN 先生：那不是律师—委托人信息。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：等一下。让它被翻译。\n\nWOLMAN 先生：从律师处获知的信息，如非专门为提供法律意见或获取信息而进行的沟通，就不是特权信息。如果你的律师说天空是蓝色的，那不是特权沟通。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：他在和我争辩。没有问你的问题。\n\nWOLMAN 先生：Baldiga 先生，你是否会继续指示你的当事人不当援引律师—委托人特权？\n\nBALDIGA 先生：我会就一个问题作出指示\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 Page 75\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 逐一按问题回答。\n\n2 Wolman（沃尔曼）先生：\n对于这个问题，您是否维持该指示？\n\n4 郭先生，您是否拒绝回答我的问题？\n\n6 证人：\n是。\n\n7 沃尔曼先生：\n您基于何种理由拒绝回答我的问题？\n\n9 Baldiga（巴尔迪加）先生：\n基于律师的指示，理由是律师—当事人特权。\n\n12 证人：\n由于我与律师之间的特权，我不能回答这个问题。\n\n15 沃尔曼先生讯问：\n\n16 问：您是否曾被 Securities and Exchange Commission（证券交易委员会）正式提出指控？\n\n18 答：否。\n\n19 问：证券交易委员会是否已结束对您的调查？\n\n21 巴尔迪加先生：\n我必须再次说明，如果您知道，您可以回答“是”或“否”。\n\n23 答：否。\n\n24 问：证券交易委员会是否对 GTV 提出过任何指控？\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交于 07/25/23\n录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 答：我不知道。\n\n2 问：在过去五年中，您是否曾接受 U.S. Internal Revenue Service（美国国税局）的审计？\n\n5 答：否。\n\n6 问：在过去五年中，您是否曾接受 New York State（纽约州）税务机关的审计？\n\n9 答：否。\n\n10 问：您何时成为 Connecticut（康涅狄格州）居民？具体是哪一天？\n\n12 答：大约在 2020年3月初。\n\n13 问：为明确起见，您称您在 2020年3月是康涅狄格州居民？\n\n15 答：是。\n\n16 问：那么，为何在 Cheng（程）先生，即我方当事人，对您提起的诉讼中，您签署了一份经宣誓的陈述，表明您是 Sherry Netherlands Hotel（谢里荷兰酒店）的居民？\n\n20 官方口译员：\n律师，您能重复一遍吗？\n\n22 问：如果您在 2020年3月是康涅狄格州居民，您在程先生对您提起的诉讼中签署了一份经宣誓的陈述，称您居住在谢里荷兰酒店。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23 录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 77 页\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n答：我并非百分之百居住在康涅狄格州，但有时我也住在纽约。\n\n问：您从何时开始超过 50% 的时间居住在康涅狄格州？\n\n答：自 2020年3月起。\n\n问：您声称有一些资产被中国没收了，对吗？\n\n答：那不是我的。那是我家人的，是我家人的。\n\n问：您是否曾有资产被中国没收？\n\n答：您是说登记在我名下的吗？\n\n问：是。\n\n答：否。\n\n问：好的。2010年，您的个人净资产是多少？\n\n答：否。\n\n问：那不是一个可以回答“是”或“否”的问题。\n\n官方口译员：\n我可以再重复一遍您的问题吗？\n\n沃尔曼先生：\n可以。\n\n问：2010年，您的个人净资产是多少？\n\n答：我没有任何财产。\n\n问：您是否曾拥有登记在您名下、价值超过 $1 million 的财产；其中包括您持有某公司的权益，而该权益因此计入您的净资产？\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n答：在 2000 年之前，是。\n\n问：好的。您在 1999 年的净资产是多少？\n\n答：我从未详细计算过。\n\n问：您估计是多少？\n\n答：大约 100 million。\n\n问：那价值 $100 million 的资产后来发生了什么？\n\n答：因为在 2000 年，我获得了 Hong Kong（香港）护照，而在中国，他们不允许我拥有任何财产、资产。\n\n问：您是否已放弃对您在 1999 年所拥有的任何资产的一切权利主张？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：您为何放弃您的权利主张？\n\n官方口译员：\n放弃什么？\n\n问：您对那些资产的权利主张？\n\n答：因为我不被允许在中国拥有任何资产。\n\n问：如果中国改变其政策，您是否有任何权利或能力取回那些资产？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n异议。如果您知道，您可以回答。\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：您在 1999 年最大的资产是什么？\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23 录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 79 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 答：有一家酒店的资产，即中国一家酒店的股权权益。\n\n3 问：现在谁持有该权益？\n\n4 答：中国共产党。\n\n5 问：该权益是否以党的名义持有？\n\n6 答：中国只有一个独裁政府，即党，我们家族的资产被他们拿走了——被他们没收了。\n\n9 问：您的儿子如何变得富有到足以为 Golden Spring（金泉）和 Lamp Capital（灯塔资本）提供资金？\n\n11 答：因为他很早就开始进行投资，也把品牌引入中国。\n\n13 问：他的投资资金从何而来？\n\n15 答：我不知道。\n\n16 问：Claiborn（克莱伯恩）女士曾询问您与金泉的协议，您无法确认谁是金泉的律师。您记得吗？\n\n20 答：是的。\n\n21 问：我想尝试唤起——可能请您唤起记忆，那名律师是否叫 Daniel（丹尼尔）？\n\n24 官方口译员：\n他在问丹尼尔？\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交于 07/25/23\n录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问：是，Daniel Pedolsky（丹尼尔·佩多尔斯基）。\n\n2 答：是的，可能是，他曾是金泉的律师，也是我的个人律师。\n\n4 问：您是否与 Pedolsky 先生签署了利益冲突豁免书？\n\n6 官方口译员：\n您能重复一遍吗？\n\n8 问：您是否与律师 Daniel Pedolsky 签署了利益冲突豁免书？\n\n10 答：我不记得。\n\n11 问：您提到了与金泉签订的两三份——或三四份协议。您能确认其中每一份协议吗？\n\n14 答：我不确定。\n\n15 问：您能说明其中每一份协议的目的是什么吗？\n\n17 答：来自金泉的那笔贷款是为了与 Logan Cheng（程龙）达成和解。\n\n19 问：您是否为了支付律师费用以起诉程龙而取得了一笔贷款？\n\n21 答：我不记得。\n\n22 问：除与程先生有关的协议之外，其他协议是什么？\n\n24 答：来自 D.C.（哥伦比亚特区）——哥伦比亚特区律师事务所收取（听不清）。我不记得名字。\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n沃尔曼先生：\n好的。谢谢，我这次必须走了，但谢谢。我会尝试拨入。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n谢谢。我能否请在线上的任何人静音，因为可以听到您打字的声音。好的。还有谁想提问？Harbach（哈巴赫）先生。请吧，哈巴赫先生。\n\nHarbach 先生：\n谢谢。为记录在案，我是 O'Melveny and Meyers（欧迈律师事务所）的 David Harbach（戴维·哈巴赫），我代表 PAACS（PAACS）。\n\nHarbach 先生讯问：\n\n问：郭先生，我想根据克莱伯恩女士今天向您提出的问题，问一些澄清性问题。今天早些时候，她问您是否拥有任何外币，您说没有。她还问您是否拥有任何数字货币，您说没有。我的问题是，您是否曾代表任何实体下令或指示购买外币或数字货币？\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23 录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 82 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 官方口译员：\n您能重复一遍吗？\n\n3 Harbach 先生：\n当然。\n\n4 问：我的问题是，您是否曾代表任何实体下令或指示购买任何外币或任何数字货币？\n\n7 答：您所说的“指示”是什么意思？\n\n8 问：您是否曾指示任何人购买外币或数字货币？\n\n10 答：否。\n\n11 问：克莱伯恩女士曾问您几个有关使用信用卡和借记卡的问题。我想确保我们清楚您的回答，因为她问的不是您是否拥有任何信用卡，而是您是否可以使用信用卡。我想确保您理解其中的区别。\n\n18 官方口译员：他只是在问您为什么想表述霍莉女士所问的问题。\n\n21 Harbach 先生：\n先生，我只是想提醒您她今天早些时候问过您的一个问题。\n\n23 私人口译员：\n我不理解这个问题。\n\n25 巴尔迪加先生：\nBaldiga 先生是对的。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23 录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 83 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 目前没有待回答的问题。\n\n2 问：您是否理解拥有信用卡与可以使用信用卡之间的区别？\n\n5 答：我相信我没有。\n\n6 问：您不理解其中的区别？\n\n7 答：我不太了解。\n\n8 问：好的。那么，让我举个例子。我们谈谈 Maybach（迈巴赫）。我相信您今天向我们表示，您可以使用迈巴赫作为交通工具。这正确吗？\n\n13 答：是。\n\n14 问：但我相信您的立场也是，您并不拥有这辆迈巴赫。对吗？\n\n16 答：是。\n\n17 问：换言之，您的立场是，这辆迈巴赫不是您的，对吗？\n\n19 答：是。\n\n20 问：好的。因此，我用该例子来说明拥有某物与可以使用某物之间的区别。这是否有助于您理解？您是否理解其中的区别？\n\n24 答：现在我理解您了。\n\n25 问：好的。谢谢。那么回到有关信用卡和借记卡的问题。\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 您是否可以使用任何信用卡或借记卡，无论它们是否属于您？\n\n4 答：我不理解他所说的区别，使用是指我自己使用，还是让其他人使用。\n\n7 问：那么我们逐一来谈。先从您自己使用开始。您的任何家庭成员是否曾向您提供一张信用卡或一个信用卡号码，供您自己使用？\n\n11 答：我从未使用过。\n\n12 问：您提到的另一个例子可能是您的家庭成员代表您使用信用卡。这种情况是否发生过？\n\n16 答：您所说代表我使用是什么意思？\n\n17 问：我问的是，据您所知，您的任何家庭成员是否曾使用信用卡或借记卡为您购买物品？\n\n20 答：我的儿子、女儿、妻子。他们都有信用卡为我买东西。\n\n22 私人口译员：\n证人并没有这么说，即使用信用卡为我买东西。证人说的是，我的儿子、妻子为我买东西。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23 录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 85 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 官方口译员：\n是的，他们使用他们的卡，他们两人——他们都有。他们都有卡。这就是他说的。\n\n4 （重复口译）\n\n5 官方口译员：\n是的，我翻译对了。\n\n7 证人：\n因此，我的妻子、儿子和女儿都有各自的卡，其他家庭成员也使用他们的卡为我买东西。\n\n10 问：这是否曾是依您的指示？\n\n11 答：否。\n\n12 问：从未？\n\n13 答：否。\n\n14 问：是否依您的请求？\n\n15 答：否。\n\n16 问：Yan Ping Wang（王雁平）是否与 Yvette Wang（王雁平）是同一人？\n\n17 答：是。\n\n18 问：早些时候，克莱伯恩女士问过您 Golden Spring Hong Kong（金泉香港）的情况。您告诉她，那是您的儿子拥有的。您记得吗？\n\n22 答：是。\n\n23 问：我问您的是，您的儿子从何时起拥有金泉香港？\n\n25 答：我不知道。\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n问：除您的儿子外，是否还有其他任何人曾拥有金泉香港的权益？\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n问：您还说，您不记得您是否曾担任金泉香港的公司高级职员？\n\n官方口译员：\n您能重复那一句吗？\n\n问：您还说，您不记得您是否曾担任金泉香港的公司高级职员？这是否意味着您有可能曾担任过，只是您不确定？\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n问：克莱伯恩女士以几种不同的方式问过您，您是否知道 Golden Spring New York（金泉纽约）如何获得资金或赚钱。金泉从何时开始支付您的个人生活开支？\n\n答：2015年。\n\n问：所以大约六年或七年？\n\n答：自 2015年起，当时有一个叫 Bruno Wu（吴征）的人来自中国大陆，给我的家人、我的儿子、女儿和妻子打电话，所以自那以后，我开始花来自金泉纽约的钱。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交于 07/25/23 录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53 第 86 页\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交于 07/25/23\n录入于 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n私人口译员：\n我认为证人没有说“某些”。\n\n官方口译员：\n什么？\n\n私人口译员：\n我认为证人说的不是“某些”。\n\n证人：\n不包括他们抓到的那个儿子；我的妻子、女儿以及许多家庭成员都被抓了，但不包括我的儿子。\n\n问：\n所以，Golden Spring（金泉）大约六七年来一直在支付您的个人开支。对吗？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n在这六七年期间，您从未与任何家庭成员讨论过这笔钱来自哪里吗？\n\n答：\n因为我的许多家庭成员被——被您当事人 Bruno Wu（吴征）逮捕了，所以我没有联系。我无法与他们沟通。\n\n私人口译员：\n不完全是。PAACS 的合伙人——律师所代表的合伙人，PAACS——PAACS 的合伙人——\n\n官方口译员：\n我不知道。他没有提到任何有关 PAACS 的事情。\n\n证人：\n所以，是代表当事人 Bruno Wu（吴征）的另一位律师逮捕了您许多家庭成员。您当事人过去的合伙人，其中一位合伙人，（听不清）Bruno Wu，并且逮捕了您许多家庭成员，因此您无法与他们沟通。\n\n共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问：\n自 2015 年以来，您是否曾与您的女儿、妻子或儿子联系？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n在您与这三人中任何一人联系的任何时候，您是否曾询问他们 Golden Spring 的钱来自哪里？\n\n答：\n是，我问过。\n\n问：\n您问了谁？\n\n答：\n我问了他们三人。\n\n问：\n他们怎么说？\n\n答：\n他们告诉我，因为我正处于被追赶的境地，所以不要问我们自己的财务信息。不要向我问任何事情，我们会帮助您——我们会尽我们所能帮助您。\n\n问：\n那是什么时候？\n\n答：\n2017 年之后。\n\n问：\n2017 年后多久？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问：\n当您与家人进行这次谈话时，他们三人是在一起，还是分别进行的谈话？\n\n答：\n分别进行。\n\n问：\n他们三人中的每一个人都说了大致相同的话吗？\n\n答：\n相似。\n\n问：\n所以我想确认我理解正确。您分别询问他们 Golden Spring 的钱来自哪里，而他们每个人都对您说，不要问我这件事，因为——请您替我把这句话说完。\n\n答：\n所以您是在编造一个我不明白的故事。\n\n问：\n我是在请您帮助我理解。我试图理解，为什么您的家人告诉您不要问，为什么您的家人告诉您不要问 Golden Spring 从哪里得到这笔钱。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n让他问您一个问题。\n\n问：\n请您告诉我，为什么您的每位家人都告诉您，不要问他们 Golden Spring 的钱来自哪里？\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n异议。如果您知道的话。\n\n官方口译员：\n您是在提出异议吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29\n提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n我提出了异议。\n\n官方口译员：\n哦，您提出了异议。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n如果他知道，我允许他回答。\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。\n\n证人：\n我的女儿和妻子被他的合伙人逮捕，并于 2017 年获释，获释至纽约。她们遭到共产党极其严重的折磨。折磨她们的人是这位律师的合伙人。她们都有各自的律师。她们告诉我，不要就她们自己的财务和个人信息问她们或与她们沟通。您想做任何事情，最好通过律师进行。\n\n这是我家人在来到纽约之前告诉她们的原则、事情。我只是想告诉您其含义，含义非常相似，但我无法逐字逐句地告诉您。\n\n所以我不希望这位律师编造任何关于我女儿——关于我女儿伪造、作伪证的故事。那种故事。\n\n上次我们与 Holley 女士在这里时，他在编造虚假谎言，说我使用我的 Twitter 账户，说纽约的法官是共产党，而我甚至没有 Twitter 账户。\n\n共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n为明确记录，今天是我首次在法庭上就本诉讼说出任何一句话。因此，我认为您不是在说我，先生。\n\n证人：\n我说的是上次，是您办公室的一位律师。您之前的律师名叫 Andy Morse（音译），因其五年来提出虚假主张而被法官逐出。因此，这家律师事务所一直在提出虚假主张。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n只要回答他的问题，因为除非您只是试图回答他的问题，否则我无法知道是否应当提出异议。\n\n证人：\n我没有分别和我的家人、女儿及妻子谈话，说出相同的话。如果我说相同的事情、相同的话，那就是在编造虚假故事。\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n我明白。\n\n证人：\n您不能使用您的想象力，把内容塞进我的脑子里。这就是为什么纽约南区（Southern District of New York）和法官被他们（听不清）并给我作出了错误的判决。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交日期 07/25/23 录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53 第92页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n身份不明者：\n您能把最后那句话再说一遍吗——\n\n证人：\n因为他们的虚假主张，所以纽约南区的法官、该法官，给我作出了错误的判决。\n\n私人口译员：\n此外，口译员此前没有完整翻译律师向证人作出的、有关其异议的指示。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n如果您想重复，请继续。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n我认为您只需听这些问题，并且只回答这些问题。\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n抱歉。律师将转到另一个话题。\n\n由 HARBACH 先生询问：\n\n问：\nKwok 先生，Claiborn 女士今天问您关于您欠 Golden Spring 的一笔 $21 million 债务。她问您，这 2100 万中的多少是律师费，您的回答是“我认为大部分都是”。我想知道您所说的“大部分”是什么意思。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交日期 07/25/23 录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53 第93页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问：\n您的意思是 $11 million，还是接近 $21 million？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n问：\n您是否仍然认为其中大部分是律师费？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n问：\n您还提到了 Logan Cheng（郑洛根）和解，并称与该和解有关地从 Golden Spring 借了钱。\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n那笔贷款的金额是多少？\n\n答：\n我不记得确切数额。可能是大约 200。二——$300,000。\n\n问：\nGolden Spring 提供的那笔贷款的条件是什么？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n问：\n当 Claiborn 女士问您是否曾去过 Golden Spring 位于纽约的办公室时，您说去过。那些办公室的地址是什么？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n那些办公室的地址是什么？\n\n答：\n64th Street, 162。\n\n问：\n您还提到，您上次去那里是昨天，您去那里的原因是为今天的会议作准备。您在那里与谁会面？\n\n共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 93页\n\n答：\n我的律师。\n\n问：\n您在办公室期间，除您的律师之外，是否还与任何其他人为准备今天的会议而会面？\n\n答：\n我不知道您所说的其他人是什么意思。\n\n问：\n那么，您是否与任何为 Golden Spring 工作的人会面？\n\n答：\n是，我见了 Yvonne Wang（王伊冯）。\n\n问：\n这是昨天的事？\n\n答：\n是，我昨天见了她。\n\n问：\n您昨天问了她一些问题吗？\n\n答：\n没有。\n\n问：\n请告诉我您与 Wang 女士的谈话内容。\n\n答：\n您是什么意思？\n\n问：\n那么，我想知道您和她谈了什么。\n\n答：\n我请她安排吃的食物和咖啡。\n\n问：\n就这些吗？\n\n答：\n我们还谈了如何废除共产党。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问：\n我想确认我理解正确。我想您说的是——\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n抱歉。我能再听一遍最后那句话吗？\n\n证人：\n我们谈论如何废除共产党。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n谢谢。\n\n问：\nWang 女士是 Golden Spring 的高级职员，对吗？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n您指示她拿咖啡来，对吗？\n\n答：\n不，我没有指示她。我只是希望她拿一些咖啡来。\n\n问：\n您是希望，还是帮助？\n\n答：\n帮助。\n\n问：\n您是在帮助。因为我问您的问题是，您和 Wang 女士谈了什么。而我以为您说的是，您请她拿一些咖啡来，或者甚至告诉她拿一些咖啡来。\n\n答：\n不，是您的律师办公室——您的律师办公室又在编造和想象事情。\n\n问：\n我再问一遍这个问题。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n请问一个问题。不要——\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交日期 07/25/23\n共134页 录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53 第96页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 95页\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n不要把话塞进他嘴里。\n\n问：\n您昨天与 Wang 女士讨论了什么？\n\n答：\n您想让我详细谈吗？我可以谈上几个小时。\n\n问：\n不，如果细节涉及如何推翻中国共产党。我会更精确一些。\n\n答：\n所以您不希望我们废除中国共产党。我们的工作是废除中国共产党。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n只回答问题。\n\n证人：\n您没有问题。您只是在指示某件事。\n\n问：\n有时我会分段说话，以便让口译员翻译。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n我认为，如果您只问问题，然后由证人——我会指示他回答您的问题，那将会有帮助。\n\n问：\n您昨天是否与 Yvette [原文如此] 讨论了任何与准备今天会议有关的事情？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n您讨论了什么？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交日期 07/25/23\n录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n答：\n我请她把那些文件带到这里来。\n\n问：\n还有别的吗？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n问：\nLamp Capital（兰普资本）是什么时候成立的？\n\n答：\n我不知道。\n\n问：\n为什么成立 Lamp Capital？\n\n答：\n我不知道。\n\n问：\n谁成立了 Lamp Capital？\n\n答：\n我儿子。\n\n问：\n您怎么知道？\n\n答：\n因为我向我儿子借钱支付律师费。\n\n问：\n问题是，您怎么知道是您儿子成立了 Lamp Capital？\n\n答：\n因为我儿子说的。\n\n问：\n他亲自告诉您的。\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n他是否曾就是否成立 Lamp Capital 向您征求意见？\n\n答：\n没有。\n\n问：\n他是否曾询问您对于他是否应成立 Lamp Capital 的看法？\n\n答：\n没有。\n\n问：\n他是否告诉您为什么要成立 Lamp Capital？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2032-29 提交日期 07/25/23 录入日期 07/25/23 13:27:53 第98页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n共134页\n\n答：\n没有。\n\n问：\n当您谈到您针对 Boise Schiller（博伊斯·希勒律师事务所）的失职索赔时，您提到了某个人，您一直称其为“他”。我想知道那个人是谁？\n\n答：\n我不知道您是什么意思。\n\n问：\n是的，那是一个糟糕的问题。我道歉。您陈述说，有人未经您的许可向法院提交虚假文件。此人威胁您的家人，此人在饮酒后威胁您，并且此人给您和您的家人造成许多损失，包括在向法官出示文件之前没有提供翻译文件。我的问题是，那个人是谁？\n\n答：\nSchiller（希勒）。Schiller 律师。\n\n问：\n所以是 Boise Schiller 律师事务所的 Schiller 先生。我的理解正确吗？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n谢谢。您是否了解 Lamp Capital 从事何种业务，如果有的话？\n\n答：\n不了解。\n\n问：\n换一个话题。您今天在回答问题时多次说到，那个——\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\nA 我身后的人做了某些事情。\n\nQ 你在说谁？\n\nA 我身后有一个人，有一个老板叫 Bruno Wu（吴征）。他支付了那宗——来自[听不清]的强奸案。这里还有一名债权人，那笔费用也是 Bruno Wu 支付的。那笔律师费由 Bruno Wu 支付。Bruno Wu 也是他的合伙人，并且他投资了 \\$800 million。Bruno Wu 的合伙人也是一名[听不清]前官员，他们正在调查，并且他们联合了一名合伙人来调查我的案件。所以在 April 18, 2017，[听不清]开始起诉我，提起诉讼。在这 24 小时内，Bruno Wu 给我发来了红色通知书，他们开始提起诉讼。\n\nHARBACH 先生（哈巴赫先生）：我可以打断——\n\n证人：中国共产党阻止了对我的采访，即 VOA（美国之音）对我的采访。它们同时发生。\n\nHARBACH 先生：或者我可以让他继续说。\n\n证人：这家律师事务所制作的所有文件都是虚假的。他们向 Southern District of New York（纽约南区）法院提交了一份虚假文件。他们甚至就我女儿的游艇提出虚假主张。那艘船是我的。他们向纽约南区法院的法官申请，我两次提交破产——个人破产案件，而当天——他们[听不清]两次，包括 Holley 女士。Holley 女士在场。第一次 Holley 女士在法庭上在场时，他们作伪证称——他们说我女儿在 Sherry 破产案件中作了虚假证词，因为我女儿从未参与该案件。Holley 女士在场，第二次开庭日期 Holley 女士也在场。该律师事务所的律师告诉法官，他们说我使用 Twitter 账户来——他们说我在 Twitter 上称纽约南区法官是共产党党员。你可以看到我身后的所有人，其中一个是 Bruno Wu，有一个人在许多案件中付款——\n\nHARBACH 先生：我想问另一个问题。\n\nHARBACH 先生询问：\n\nQ 你是否知悉，无论以何种方式，你的破产代理律师 Brown Rudnick law firm（布朗·鲁德尼克律师事务所）此前是否曾代理过 Bruno Wu？\n\n第134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n官方口译员：我可以稍微休息一下吗？我实在无法那么专注。太多了。我可以休息一下吗？\n\nCLAIBORN 女士（克莱伯恩女士）：我能否请你先问完那个问题，然后我们再休息？\n\n官方口译员：可以。你可以重复一下那个问题吗？\n\nHARBACH 先生：我很乐意。\n\nQ 你是否知悉，无论以何种方式，你的破产代理律师 Brown Rudnick law firm 此前是否代理过 Bruno Wu？\n\n官方口译员：你说的是代理其他人吗？\n\nHARBACH 先生：是的。Bruno Wu。\n\nA 不。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：我现在要短暂休息。我们将在 2:45 回到这里。\n\n（休庭）\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：好的。短暂休息后，我们重新开始记录。Harbach 先生，您请。\n\nHARBACH 先生：谢谢。\n\nHARBACH 先生询问：\n\nQ Kwok 女士，在你面前的文件中，本案提交的第 78 号文件。\n\n第134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n官方口译员：哪一份文件？这份吗？\n\nHARBACH 先生：是的。很抱歉。律师告诉我，你们的副本没有盖章。\n\nQ 我说的是你的官方 Form 106。因此，我的问题从第 9 页开始，该页载有标题为 Schedule D、由财产担保的债权人的部分。你跟上了吗？你勾选了“是”框，并被指引至 Schedule D，所以请翻到那里。该部分在第 18 页。\n\nBALDIGA 先生（巴尔迪加先生）：标题是什么？他或许根据标题会更容易找到。\n\nHARBACH 先生：好的。那是 Schedule D 的小表格，即有担保债权债权人名单。\n\nHARBACH 先生询问：\n\nQ Kwok 先生，你会看到 Golden Spring New York Limited（纽约金泉有限公司）有五项单独条目。所有五行中每一栏的数据都相同。因此，我的问题是，为什么这份清单上有五项相同的条目？问题是，为什么这份清单上有五项相同的条目？\n\nA 我不知道“五项”是什么意思——\n\nQ 那么，每一行都完全相同。我只是问，为什么有五行载有相同的信息？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ 在你提交的那些文件中，有一些具体说明，其中一项说明讨论了 Taconic Road（塔科尼克路）上的住宅。\n\nHARBACH 先生：供律师参考，我指的是第 77 号文件第 4 页。\n\n官方口译员：哪一页？\n\nHARBACH 先生：第 4 页。\n\n官方口译员：84 页？\n\nHARBACH 先生：不，第 4 页。\n\n官方口译员：哦，第 4 页。好的。\n\nHARBACH 先生询问：\n\nQ 我的问题实际上不太涉及确切文本，而是涉及实质内容。因此，第一个问题是：是否属实，与 Taconic Road House（塔科尼克路房屋）有关的所有费用均由家庭成员及家庭控制的企业直接支付？\n\nA 是。\n\nQ 好的。哪些家庭成员？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23\n第134页 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 Page 104\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 103\n\nA 我妻子，有时由我儿子支付。\n\nQ 哪些家庭控制的企业？\n\nA 哪个国家——我妻子。\n\nQ 你妻子不是企业。我想问的是，哪些家庭控制的企业支付 Taconic House（塔科尼克房屋）的费用？\n\nA Greenwich LLC（格林尼治有限责任公司）。\n\nQ 好的。顺便问一下，你如何知道你妻子和有时你儿子支付这些费用？\n\nA 因为我住在那里。\n\nQ 你观察到他们支付这些费用吗？\n\nA 是。\n\nQ 那是否曾是应你的要求？\n\nA 我不记得我要求过任何事情。\n\nQ Greenwich Land LLC（格林尼治土地有限责任公司）——是的，Greenwich Land LLC 除 373 Taconic Road（塔科尼克路373号）之外，还拥有其他房地产吗？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ 你知道位于 Connecticut（康涅狄格州）Cos Cob（科斯科布）33 Ferncliff（芬克利夫街33号）的房产吗？\n\n官方口译员：你可以重复一下吗？\n\nHARBACH 先生：可以。\n\nQ Connecticut 州 Cos Cob 的 33 Ferncliff。\n\n官方口译员：31，对吗？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23\nEntered 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\nHARBACH 先生：不，33。\n\nA 是，现在我想起来了。它也是由我妻子的公司拥有。\n\nQ 就是 Greenwich Land？\n\nA 也许。\n\nQ 你知道吗？\n\nA 我不确定。\n\nQ 你去过 33 Ferncliff 吗？\n\nA 是。\n\nQ 最近一次是什么时候？\n\nA 不。不是最近。\n\nQ 你知道 Greenwich Land 何时购买 33 Ferncliff 吗？\n\nA 我不记得。\n\nQ 你知道大约花了多少钱吗？\n\nA 可能超过 \\$1 million。\n\nQ \\$1.37 million 听起来大致正确吗？\n\nA 我不确定。\n\nQ 大约于 September, 2019 购买的日期，对你来说听起来大致正确吗？\n\nA 不确定。\n\nQ 暂且回到 373 Taconic。该房产的购买价是多少？\n\nA 可能是 400 到 500,000。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23\nEntered 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n私人口译员：不，不，不。\n\n官方口译员：4 到 5 million。对不起。\n\nQ 如果你知道，373 Taconic 的大致购买时间是什么时候？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ 你曾居住在 33 Ferncliff 吗？\n\nA 没有。\n\nQ 你知道目前是否有人住在那里吗？\n\nA 之前可能有另一位同志，你知道的，是为脱离中国共产党的人，他住在那里。\n\nQ 多久以前？\n\nA 可能一到两年前。\n\nQ 你记得那个人的名字吗？\n\nA 记得。\n\nQ 是什么？\n\nA Wong Din Gong（黄丁公，音）。\n\nQ 如果你知道，目前是否有人住在那里？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ 说到 373 Taconic，购买该房产的钱来自哪里？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 Page 107\n\n第134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 106\n\nQ 你知道该房屋是以现金还是融资购买的吗？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ 33 Ferncliff 也是同样的问题。你知道购买那栋房屋的钱来自哪里吗？\n\nA 我听说是以现金购买的。\n\nQ 从谁那里——抱歉。你从谁那里听说的？\n\nA 我不记得。\n\nQ 你知道那笔钱来自哪里吗？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ 你知道 Saraca Media Group（萨拉卡媒体集团）是什么吗？\n\nA Saraca？\n\nQ Saraca。\n\nA Saraca Media Group。我知道。\n\nQ Sirraca Media Group 是什么？\n\nA 就是 Saraca。它是一家公司。\n\nQ 什么类型的公司？\n\nA 我不确定。\n\nQ 你个人曾与 Saraca 有任何关系吗？\n\nA 没有。\n\nQ 你知道 Saraca 从事何种业务吗？\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\nA 我记得他们与 GTV Media platform（GTV 媒体平台）有关，或者他们投资了 GTV Media platform。\n\nQ 你怎么知道？\n\nA 因为我是他们的顾问，谁拥有该顾问。而且我也是 GTV 主持人。而且这也是脱离共产党的一项投入和平台。\n\nQ 你刚才说你是顾问时，是指 Saraca 还是 GTV？\n\nA GTV。\n\nQ Saraca 是否曾——是否曾与 162 East 64th Street（东64街162号）这个地址有关联？\n\n官方口译员：哪个地址？你可以重复一下吗？\n\nQ 可以。162 East 64th Street。问题是，Saraca 是否曾与该地址有关联？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ 那是 family office（家族办公室）的地址，对吗？\n\nA 那是其中一个。\n\nQ 其他的在哪里？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ 在 New York City（纽约市）还有其他的吗？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 Page 108\n\n第134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\nA 我只是想澄清一下。Golden Spring 是位于这栋建筑，即 162 号中的公司之一。\n\nQ 明白，谢谢。我们在你的询问过程中提到过家族办公室，我只是想明确一下。当我们谈到家族办公室时，我们指的是 East 64th Street 上的那个地址吗？\n\nA 是。\n\nQ GTV 是否曾与家族办公室地址有关联？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ 谁拥有 Saraca？\n\nA 我儿子。\n\nQ 从何时起？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ Saraca 目前是否仍然存在？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ 你是否知道——你是否知道 Saraca 资产的价值？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ 你知道 Saraca 向 GTV 支付的任何款项吗？\n\nA 不，我不知道。\n\nQ 你妻子是否曾告诉你，Saraca 向——支付过任何数百万美元的款项？\n\nCase 22-50073\nDoc 2032-29\nFiled 07/25/23 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 Page 110\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 109\n\nQ Greenwich Land？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ 你不知道她是否曾告诉过你，还是你不知道这些付款？\n\nA 她从未告诉我，我甚至不知道金额是多少。\n\nQ 你知道一家名为 Ziba Limited（Ziba 有限公司）、Z-I-B-A 的公司吗？\n\n官方口译员：Ziba，Z-I-B-A？\n\nHARBACH 先生：是。\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ 如果我已经问过这个问题，很抱歉。Saraca 和 GTV 之间的关系（如有）是什么？\n\nA Saraca 是 GTV 的投资者。\n\nQ 你知道 Saraca 向 GTV 投资了多少钱吗？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ GTV 是何时成立的？\n\nA 2020。可能是 2019。不太确定。\n\nQ 你知道 Saraca 的任何高级管理人员或董事的姓名吗？\n\nA 我不知道。\n\nQ 你知道 Yvette Wang（王伊薇）是否是 Saraca 的高级管理人员或董事吗？\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 110\n1 答 我不知道。\n2 问 你认识一个叫 Hong Chung\n3 Wang（王洪忠）的人吗？\n4 答 认识。\n5 问 他是谁？\n6 答 他是我的合作伙伴，也是脱离\n7 共产党的同志。\n8 问 他是你的朋友吗？\n9 答 朋友、同志和合作伙伴。\n10 问 你所说的合作伙伴是什么意思？\n11 答 因为我们有一家商业公司。\n12 问 请谈谈那家公司。\n13 答 嗯，我不记得那家\n14 公司的名称。那是一家调查美国境内共产党\n15 洗钱和实施犯罪活动的公司。\n16\n17 问 那是一家营利性公司吗？\n18 答 我不知道。\n19 问 你不知道？\n20 答 我不知道。\n21 问 公司的名称是什么？\n22 答 我不记得英文怎么说。\n23 我不记得名称。\n24 问 你与 Hong Chung Wang 在这家公司成为\n25 合作伙伴大约是在什么时间？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23\nEntered 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 我不记得。\n2 问 在过去三年内吗？\n3 答 一定是在三年前以上。\n4 问 十年以上吗？\n5 答 不是。\n6 问 Hong Chung Wang 是否曾与\n7 Saraca（萨拉卡）有任何关联？\n8 答 我不知道。\n9 问 他是否曾担任 Saraca 的高级管理人员或董事？\n10\n11 答 我不知道。\n12 问 GTV 中的 G 代表什么？\n13 答 God（上帝）。\nThe Goal，就像——G-O-A-L。\n14 问 英文单词“goal”？\n15 答 对。\nGoal 或 God。\n16 问 好的。\n你认识 Hong Chong\n17 Wang 多久了？\n18 答 我不记得。\n19 问 十年以上？\n20 答 大概。\n21 问 你今天仍认为他是朋友吗？\n22\n23 答 是。\n24 HARBACH 先生：\n请稍等。\n25 问 今天有许多问题涉及\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 Golden Spring（黄金泉）资助你的生活费用。\n2 就你的生活费用而言，\n3 其中没有任何款项预期需要偿还，这是否正确？\n4\n5 答 是，正确。\n6 问 因此，那些款项并非任何正式协议的\n7 标的，对吗？\n8 答 不是。\n9 问 那么，那些款项实质上是\n10 给你的赠与，对吗？\n11 答 是。\n12 问 什么是 Rule of Law Foundation（法治基金会）？\n13 答 那是什么意思？\n14 问 问题是，它是什么？\n15 官方口译员：\nRule of Law\n16 Foundation？\n17 HARBACH 先生：\n是，先生。\n18 官方口译员：\n我没有听清\n19 。\n你能换一种问法吗？\n20 问 有一个实体叫作——\n21 官方口译员：\n哦。\n22 问 ——Rule of Law Foundation。\n23 官方口译员：\n好的。\n24 HARBACH 先生：\n我希望通过直接问这个问题来节省一些\n25 时间。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29\nFiled 07/25/23\nEntered 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 你熟悉 Rule of Law\n2 Foundation 吗？\n3 答 是。\n4 问 你参与其设立了吗？\n5 答 是。\n6 问 在其成立时，你是否向其捐过款？\n7\n8 答 我本人没有。\n9 问 你是否指示任何实体向\n10 Rule of Law Foundation 捐款？\n11 答 建议与指示之间有任何\n12 区别——\n13 问 如果是建议，请告诉我那是建议。\n14\n15 答 我没有指示任何人，也没有命令任何人。\n16 我只是一直建议人们向\n17 该基金会捐款。\n18 私人口译员：\n作为一名\n19 口译员，我认为，如果证人向口译员提问，\n20 口译员应当翻译证人所问的问题，\n21 而不是回答该问题。\n22\n23 官方口译员：\n我可以回答\n24 任何事情。\n25 私人口译员：\n证人说\n\n第134页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 你是在谈论那个（无法辨认）\n\n2 官方口译员：\n这就是为什么我把\n3 问题转达给律师。\n4 私人口译员：\n你回答他\n5 “是”，然后你再说那个。\n6 官方口译员：\n哦，天啊。\n7 我没有说——我漏掉什么了吗？\n8 （口译。）\n9 官方口译员：\n好的。没有\n10 问题。他说没有问题未被回答。\n11 HARBACH 先生提问：\n12 问 你是否曾建议你的任何家庭成员向 Rule of Law\n13 Foundation 捐款？\n14\n15 答 是，我确实建议过。\n16 问 你的任何家庭成员或家庭控制的企业是否曾向\n17 Rule of Law Foundation 捐款？\n18\n19 答 是。\n20 问 多少钱？\n21 答 现金方面，有一笔——超过 $1 million。\n22 来自香港、日本和中国大陆——\n23 合计应当超过 30\n24 million。\n25 问 现在仅着重于\n\n第134页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 由你的家庭根据你的建议作出的捐款。\n2 大约是多少钱？\n3 答 我不知道具体情况。由于\n4 安全原因，他们不想让我知道。\n5 问 你刚才是否说过你的家庭\n6 捐赠了超过一百万美元？\n7 答 一百万现金在纽约这里。\n8 问 那是在什么时候？\n9 答 我不记得。\n10 问 原因是——嗯，让我这样问。\n11 你是否向你的家庭成员建议过\n12 他们应向 Rule of Law\n13 Foundation 捐赠的金额？\n14 答 我希望他们捐得越多越好。\n15 问 这就是你告诉他们的话吗？\n16 答 是。\n17 问 你是否知道 Rule of Law\n18 Foundation 是否与位于 64th Street 的家族办公室\n19 地址有关联？\n20 答 是。\n21 问 你是否曾于 2018年11月向 Rule of Law\n22 Foundation 捐赠 $100 million？\n23 官方口译员：\n你能再重复\n24 一遍吗？\n25 问 你是否曾捐赠 $100 million\n\n第134页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 向 Rule of Law Foundation 于 2018年11月？答 没有。在直播中，就像我想要——试图筹集资金，在直播节目中。问 你是否曾——BALDIGA 先生：等等。那是他的完整回答吗？官方口译员：是。有什么问题吗？私人口译员：不完全是证人所说的意思。（无法辨认）广播可以。直播可以。但是筹集金钱——官方口译员：请求捐款，对吗？（口译。）私人口译员：募集——证人：筹集资金，募集捐款。是，在直播广播节目中，或者不管怎样，你知道，为了——你知道，为了筹集资金，为了筹钱而请求捐款。问 你是否曾承诺向 Rule of Law Fund（法治基金）捐赠 $1 billion？官方口译员：你说的是 10 billion？HARBACH 先生：不是，先生。1 billion。\n\n第134页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 官方口译员：\n哦，one\n2 billion。\n3 答 我不记得。我不记得。\n4 问 你的意思是，你有可能\n5 作出过那个承诺吗？\n6 答 如果我们联合世界各地的组织，\n7 我们就可以达到那个目标。\n8 问 明白。这是一个简单的问题。我\n9 只是不了解答案。\n10 你本人是否曾承诺向 Rule of Law Fund\n11 捐赠 $1 billion？\n12 答 在过去五年里，我进行了超过 5,000 次\n13 直播。有些直播\n14 可能长达四五个小时。我很难\n15 记得我说过的每一句话。\n16 问 嗯，我明白，但我只是在\n17 问一个问题。即你是否曾\n18 公开、私下或以任何方式承诺\n19 向 Rule of Law Fund 捐赠 $1 billion？\n20 私人口译员：\n他说的不是\n21 投资。\n22 HARBACH 先生：\n捐赠。\n23 官方口译员：\n是，捐赠。\n24 答 我不记得。\n25 问 我再问一次这个问题。\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 第134页，共\n\n1 你是说，你有可能\n\n2 作出过这样的承诺。你只是不确定？\n3 答 在 Holley 女士面前，我不会说\n4 任何事情都有可能，但这是一个非常严重的\n5 问题。现在他们又开始这个阴谋了。\n6 问 嗯，这不是问你三天前早餐吃了\n7 什么。这是问你是否承诺\n8 捐赠 $1 billion；如果答案是你不知道，\n9 那也可以。\n10 BALDIGA 先生：\n我认为这一直就是\n11 回答。\n12 HARBACH 先生：\n不是，回答一直是“我\n13 不记得”。\n14 BALDIGA 先生：\n不记得。\n15 HARBACH 先生：\n是，先生。这有一点\n16 不同。\n17 问 所以答案可能是否定的，但你没有\n18 说“不是”。你说的是你不记得。\n19 答 我说了三次，我不记得。\n20 BALDIGA 先生：\n没有问题——\n21 答 因为在过去五年\n22 （无法辨认）一直替我作出这种回答，\n23 所以南区的法官被你们蒙骗了，而你们又开始——\n24\n25 问 我继续问下一个问题。\n\n第134页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 答 在南区法院，我只见过法官 20 秒。我在这五年内一句话也没说，因为他们所做的事情，我总共被罚款约 $300 million。BALDIGA 先生：好了。停止吧。我们等一个问题，然后回答该问题。HARBACH 先生：Bill，我感谢你的耐心。我继续问下一个问题。BALDIGA 先生：请翻译我所说的话。官方口译员：你能重复一下吗？大家当时都在说话。BALDIGA 先生：问一个问题，他会回答一个问题。问 在过去两年里，你是否曾向 Rule of Law Foundation 作过任何捐赠？答 我本人，对吗？问 是，先生。答 没有。问 在过去两年里，你是否曾建议你的任何家庭成员向 Rule of Law Foundation 捐款？答 我不记得。\n\nFiore Reporting and Transcription Service, Inc.（菲奥雷记录与誊写服务公司）\n\n问 如果你实际上并没有那笔钱，你是否曾会承诺向\n\n第134页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 Rule of Law Foundation 捐赠 $1 billion？\n2\n3 BALDIGA 先生：\n对提问形式提出异议。\n4 官方口译员：\n我没有听清\n5 。你能再重复一遍吗。\n6 问 如果你实际上并没有那笔钱，你是否会曾承诺向\n7 Rule of Law Foundation\n8 捐赠 $1 billion。\n9 BALDIGA 先生：\n而且我提出了异议。\n10 HARBACH 先生：\n然后 Bill 提出了异议。\n11 官方口译员：\n他说，你是\n12 ——想要判我死刑吗？\n13 问 Lady May（“五月花”号）大约值\n14 多少钱？\n15 答 我不知道。\n16 问 在你登上 Lady May 的这些年里，\n17 你大约有多少次\n18 邀请朋友加入你？\n19 官方口译员：\n你能再重复\n20 一遍那个问题吗？\n21 HARBACH 先生：\n可以。\n22 问 在你登上 Lady May 的这些年里，\n23 你大约有多少次\n24 邀请朋友出来加入你？\n25 BALDIGA 先生：\n等等。\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 HARBACH 先生：抱歉，Bill。BALDIGA 先生：David，你即将就 Lady May 相关问题进行一次证言录取。你可以选择今天问，或者到那时再问。任何一种都可以。HARBACH 先生：这是合理的观点。我继续问下一个问题。BALDIGA 先生：好的。没有问题。HARBACH 先生：如果我可以再次请律师注意文件 77。我想重点关注问题 19。问 Kwok 先生，你读完那个问题后请告诉我。是第 19 题。（停顿。）答 读完了。问 好的。为便于记录，该问题写道：在你申请破产前十年内，你是否将任何财产转移至你作为受益人的自益信托或类似安排？答 没有。问 而且这确实是你在表格上勾选的内容。我的问题是，如果你将“你”一词改为家庭成员作为受益人，答案会是什么？BALDIGA 先生：异议。Case 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 Page 122 of 134\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29\nFiled 07/25/23\nEntered 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 答\n我无法回答带有“如果”的问题。\n2 问\n我会换一种方式问。\n3 HARBACH先生（哈巴赫先生）：\n还有，杰克（Jack），请你\n4 耐心一点。\n5 问\n在你申请破产前十年内，你是否向自益\n6 信托或类似安排转让过任何财产，而你的\n7 家庭成员是该信托或类似安排的受益人？\n8 \n9 答\n没有。\n10 问\n继续看同一份文件，\n11 往下看第27题。你读完后\n12 告诉我一声，先生。\n13 （暂停。）\n14 答\n好的。我读完了。\n15 问\n所以你看到，你在\n16 “是”字旁边的方框中打了勾。然后说明写着，\n17 勾选以上所有适用项，并填写下方\n18 每项业务的详细信息。\n19 HARBACH先生：\n杰克，你看到那里了吗，\n20 ？\n21 法庭正式口译员：\n我没有看到\n22 那个。\n23 HARBACH先生：\n接下来——霍利（Holley）可以给你看。\n24 （暂停。）\n25 HARBACH先生：\n所以，我刚才只是向\n\n第134页之\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 证人指出——为了译员的方便，\n2 我再说一遍。\n3 问\n在勾选“是”的方框旁边，\n4 说明写着，勾选以上所有适用项，并填写\n5 下方每项业务的详细信息。以上\n6 没有任何方框被勾选，这就是我的问题。\n7 对于你列出的那三个实体中的\n8 每一个，应当勾选哪一个或哪几个方框？\n9 答\n我无法确定是哪一个。\n10 问\n这是你需要更多时间\n11 才能弄清楚的事情，还是你只是不了解答案？\n12 答\n我可以逐一回答。\n13 问\n好的。那我们就这样做。我们先从\n14 Genever（杰内弗）开始。\n15 答\n哪个 Genever？\n16 问\n嗯，所列的是 Genever\n17 Holdings Corporation（杰内弗控股公司）。\n18 如有的话，对于 Genever Holdings Corporation，\n19 你会勾选其中哪些方框？\n20 答\n它曾经——曾经是有限责任公司成员。\n21 以上各项不适用，应当转到第12项\n22 ——转到12。\n23 它过去是一家有限责任公司。\n24 问\n你的意思是，你会勾选\n25 有限责任公司成员的方框，但它应当使用\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022 第134页之\n\n1 过去时态？\n\n2 答 是。曾经是。\n3 问 其他任何方框是否适用于你与\n4 Genever Holdings Corporation 的关系？\n5 答 最后一行似乎适用于\n6 我。我不太确定。\n7 问 最后一行是指，持有公司\n8 至少百分之五有表决权证券或股权证券的\n9 所有人？\n10 答 我曾在非常短的一段时间内持有50 percent。\n11 问 好的。那 Shiny Time（闪亮时光）呢？\n12 答 Shiny Time 已经不存在了。\n13 问 我明白。在其存续期间，\n14 哪些方框是准确的？\n15 答 第一个。\n16 问 个体经营者？\n17 答 是。\n18 问 其他任何项呢？\n19 答 不确定。\n20 问 好的。Well Origin Limited（威尔奥里金有限公司）呢？\n21 答 它已经不存在了。\n22 问 好的。不过还是同样的问题。其中\n23 哪些方框在它存续期间适用？\n24 答 第一个。\n25 \n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23\nEntered 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 其他任何项呢？\n2 答 不确定。\n3 问 关于这个问题最后一点。\n4 对于 Genever Holdings Corporation，\n5 填写该企业存续日期的栏位是空白的。\n6 你知道那些日期应当是什么吗？\n7 答 2015。大概是3月、4月到6月、\n8 7月。\n9 问 哪一年？\n10 答 2015。\n11 问 所以是大约从3月或4月，\n12 到大约7月，全部是在2015年？\n13 答 是。\n14 问 好的。那是否是\n15 该公司的整个存续期间？\n16 答 我在该公司待了几个月，在\n17 这段期间待了几个月，并持有\n18 股票。 我离开后，该公司仍然存在。\n19 问 我明白。它现在仍然存在\n20 吗？\n21 答 我相信它仍然存在。\n22 问 好的。你是哪一年结婚的？\n23 答 1918——或者1985。\n24 问 你儿子是哪一年出生的？\n25 \n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23\nEntered 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 1986。\n2 问 先生，你多大？\n3 答 54。\n4 问 你的家庭开始与 Uda Property Company（优达地产公司）\n5 合作时，你儿子多大？\n6 答 11。哦，五岁——五岁。\n7 问 那么大约是在\n8 1991年，你的家庭开始与 Uda 合作？\n9 答 是。\n10 问 Henan Uda Hotel（河南优达酒店）何时建成？\n11 答 1997年。\n12 问 那么 Uda International Trade\n13 Center（优达国际贸易中心）呢？它何时建成？\n14 答 大致是在同一时间。\n15 问 在你本案的声明中，你\n16 称这两个项目都是成功的项目。\n17 答 是。\n18 问 这使你的家庭开始积累\n19 巨额财富。\n20 答 是。\n21 问 所以，考虑到这是在90年代初，\n22 这些项目大约为你的家庭带来了\n23 多少钱？\n24 答 我不记得了。\n25 \n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23\nEntered 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 超过$50 million？\n2 法庭正式口译员：\n50还是15？\n3 HARBACH先生：\n5-0。\n4 法庭正式口译员：\n哦，好的。\n5 答 我不记得了。\n6 问 那么 Pangu Plaza（盘古广场）呢？它何时\n7 建成？\n8 答 2008年7月。\n9 问 那么，在90年代初至2008年之间，\n10 郭氏家庭还投资或参与了哪些其他重要\n11 项目？\n12 法庭正式口译员：\n从1990年代开始到\n13 ——\n14 答 从90年代初至2008年。\n15 问 你记得其中任何项目吗？任何\n16 重大项目？\n17 答 Beijing Golden Spring（北京金泉）。\n18 问 那是什么？\n19 答 那是一家地产公司。房地产。\n20 它是一家房地产公司。\n21 问 这是一家开发公司，还是一家——\n22 类似买卖代理的公司？\n23 答 开发公司。\n24 问 盘古广场项目大约于何时开始？\n25 \n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23\nEntered 07/25/23 13:27:53\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 大约1999年。\n2 问 好的。那么我们就以此作为一个\n3 时间点。\n4 在盘古广场项目开始时，\n5 该家庭大约已经积累了\n6 多少财富？\n7 私人译员：\n再问一遍那个\n8 问题？\n9 HARBACH先生：\n当然。\n10 问 截至1999年，即盘古广场项目开始之时，\n11 该家庭到那时大约已经赚取或积累了\n12 多少财富？\n13 法庭正式口译员：\n你说的是\n14 1999年之后？\n15 HARBACH先生：\n不，我说的是截至\n16 1999年？\n17 法庭正式口译员：\n哦，截至1999年。\n18 问 截至1999年，该家庭已经赚了\n19 多少钱？\n20 答 我不记得了。\n21 问 超过$100 million？\n22 答 我不记得了。\n23 问 超过$500 million？\n24 答 我不记得了。\n25 问 超过十亿美元？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23\nEntered 07/25/23 13:27:53\n第134页之 第130页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022 129\n1 答 我不记得了。\n2 问 你是否亲自参与了\n3 与 Uda Property Company 的工作？\n4 答 是。\n5 问 你是否亲自参与了\n6 河南优达酒店的开发？\n7 答 是。\n8 问 你是否亲自参与了郑州的\n9 优达国际贸易中心？\n10 答 是。\n11 问 你是否亲自参与了\n12 盘古广场的开发？\n13 答 是。\n14 问 谁负责 Beijing Golden Spring Real Estate Development\n15 firm（北京金泉房地产开发公司）？\n16 答 一个专业团队。\n17 问 你是该团队的成员吗？\n18 答 当时我是顾问。\n19 问 为北京金泉担任顾问？\n20 答 是。\n21 问 大约在什么时间段，\n22 你担任他们的顾问？\n23 答 2000年之后。\n24 问 2000年之后。好的。\n25 CLAIBORN女士（克莱伯恩女士）：\nHarbach先生，我只是想\n\n第134页之\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 指出，现在是4:18，我知道今天时间很长\n2 ——我想给——首先，我为\n3 打断你道歉。\n4 HARBACH先生：\n没关系。\n5 CLAIBORN女士：\n但我想给\n6 委员会的律师一个机会，在我们结束前\n7 今天问几个问题。\n8 HARBACH先生：\n当然。可以。\n9 STAFSTROM先生（斯塔夫斯特罗姆先生）：\n我会非常简短。\n10 由 STAFSTROM先生进行询问：\n11 问\n我注意到你的头发很短。我喜欢\n12 这样。你最近理发了吗？\n13 答\n是。我理发了。\n14 问\n在哪里理的？\n15 答\n我妻子。\n16 问\n哦，你妻子。好的。\n17 她一直给你理发吗？\n18 答\n从疫情之后到现在。\n19 问\n好的。好吧，那么我没有进一步的\n20 问题了。\n21 CLAIBORN女士：\n我们将在\n22 确定新日期期间暂停录音。\n23 （休庭。）\n24 CLAIBORN女士：\n现在恢复记录。\n\n25 \n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29\nFiled 07/25/23\nEntered 07/25/23 13:27:53\n第134页之 第132页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022 131\n1 在短暂休息之后。我们已选定延期\n2 日期为April 29th，从10:00 a.m.开始。我们\n3 今天到此结束。谢谢。\n4 （会议休会。）\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n本人，CHRISTINE FIORE（克里斯廷·菲奥雷），经法院批准的书记员及认证电子记录员和书记员，特此证明，上述内容是从上述案件程序的正式电子录音中制作的正确笔录。\n\n9 April 15, 2022\n\n11 书记员\n\n10 Christine Fiore, CERT\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2032-29 Filed 07/25/23 Entered 07/25/23 13:27:53 第134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022 133\n\n1 目录\n\n3 页码\n4 由 Claiborn女士进行询问 6\n5 由 Wolman先生（沃尔曼先生）进行询问 71\n6 由 Harbach先生进行询问 80\n7 由 Stafstrom先生进行询问 130","key_entities":["Kwok","Ho Wan Kwok","Je","Saraca","GTV","Yanping Wang","Chinese Communist Party","CIPA","Guo","Wang Yanping"],"ecf_references":[{"doc_number":77,"court":"CTB"},{"doc_number":78,"court":"CTB"}],"word_count":35245,"status":"published","published_at":"2023-07-25 00:00:00","created_at":"2023-07-25","updated_at":"2026-08-23 22:52:34"}