{"id":"court_ctb_2292_48","court":"CTB","case_no":"22-50073","doc_number":2292,"sub_number":48,"doc_type":"EXHIBIT","filed_date":"2023-10-26","title":"Exhibit 48 UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT In Re \\* Chapter 11 \\* \\* HO WAN KWOK, \\* Case 22-5007","summary_zh":null,"summary_en":null,"body_en":"## **Exhibit 48**\n\nUNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT In Re \\* Chapter 11 \\* \\* HO WAN KWOK, \\* Case 22-50073(JAM) \\* Debtor. \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* TRANSCRIPT OF CONTINUED 341 MEETING OF CREDITORS APRIL 6, 2022 Electronically Recorded by the Office of the United States Trustee Transcript Prepared By: Christine Fiore, CERT Fiore Reporting and Transcription Service, Inc. 4 Research Drive, Suite 402 Shelton, CT 06484 (203)929-9992\n\n134\n\n| Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | | |\n|------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--|--|\n| APPEARANCES: | | | |\n| For the Debtor: | WILLIAM R. BALDIGA, ESQ.
BEN SILVERBERG, ESQ.
Brown Rudnick, LLP
Seven Times Square
New York, NY
10036 | | |\n| For the U.S. Trustee: | HOLLEY E. CLAIBORN, ESQ.
STEVEN MACKEY, ESQ.
Office of the U.S. Trustee
150 State Street
New Haven, CT
06510 | | |\n| For Logan Cheng,
Creditor: | JAY MARSHALL WOLMAN, ESQ.
Randazza Legal Group
100 Pearl Street, 14th Floor
Hartford, CT 06103 | | |\n| For Pacific Alliance
Asia Opportunity Fund,
LP, Creditors: | DAVID V. HARBACH, II, ESQ.
O'Melveny & Myers, LLP
1625 I Street NW
Washington, DC
20006 | | |\n| | STUART SARNOFF, ESQ.
MAKENZIE RUSSO
O'Melveny & Myers, LLP
Times Square Tower
7 Times Square
New York, NY
10036 | | |\n| | ANNECCA SMITH, ESQ.
Robinson and Cole
280 Trumbull Street
Hartford, CT
06103 | | |\n| For Bruno Wu, Weican
Meng and Rui Ma,
Creditors: | KRISTEN MAYHEW, ESQ.
McElroy, Deutsch, Mulvaney &
Carpenter
One State Street
Hartford, CT
06103 | | |\n| For the Official
Committee of Unsecured
Creditors: | STEVEN STAFSTROM, ESQ.
Pullman & Comley
850 Main Street
Bridgeport, CT
06601 | | |\n\n2\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Good morning.
Today is |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | Wednesday, April 6th, 2022.
We are gathered for the |\n| 3 | continued meeting of creditors in the Chapter 11 |\n| 4 | case of Ho Wan Kwok, case no. 22-50073. |\n| 5 | My name is Holley Claiborn. I'm a trial |\n| 6 | attorney in the Office of the United States Trustee |\n| 7 | and I will be conducting today's meeting.
Today's |\n| 8 | meeting is being recorded on a digital recorder and |\n| 9 | is also available for parties to participate on the |\n| 10 | phone.
And there are parties, including the debtor |\n| 11 | and counsel and other professionals, gathered here |\n| 12 | in person. |\n| 13 | Today's meeting is being interpreted, as |\n| 14 | you can hear and our interpreter today is Jeff and |\n| 15 | I'm going to ask Jeff to respond to this oath. |\n| 16 | (The interpreter is sworn.) |\n| 17 | THE COURT:
On behalf of Mr. Kwok we have |\n| 18 | William Baldiga and Ben Silverberg. |\n| 19 | Also on behalf of the debtor we have |\n| 20 | financial professionals Craig Gelbert and Matthew |\n| 21 | Flynn. |\n| 22 | Present here today on behalf of the |\n| 23 | Committee of Unsecured Creditors is Steven Stafstrom |\n| 24 | from Pullman and Comley. |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
4 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Mr. Stafstrom is the lawyer for the |\n| 2 | Official Committee of Unsecured Creditors. |\n| 3 | Also present today on behalf of PAACS |\n| 4 | Stuart Sarnoff, David Harbach and MacKenzie Russo. |\n| 5 | They represent PAACS. |\n| 6 | On behalf of certain creditors, including |\n| 7 | Rui Ma, we have Kristen Mayhew. |\n| 8 | On behalf of creditor, Logan Cheng, we |\n| 9 | have Jay Wolman. |\n| 10 | Also on behalf of PAACS we have Annecca |\n| 11 | Smith, from Robinson and Cole. |\n| 12 | And then also for the debtor today we have |\n| 13 | Josh Klein and Aaron Mitchell. |\n| 14 | Today's meeting will feature me asking |\n| 15 | questions first, followed by the opportunity for |\n| 16 | creditors to come up and ask questions. |\n| 17 | Is anyone on the telephone conference |\n| 18 | line? |\n| 19 | MR. MACKEY:
Steven Mackey from the U.S. |\n| 20 | Trustee's Office is on the conference line. |\n| 21 | Thank you, Mr. Mackey.
Anyone else |\n| 22 | besides Mr. Mackey. |\n| 23 | Hearing none, I'm going to proceed to |\n| 24 | swearing in Mr. Kwok. |\n| 25 | (The debtor is sworn.) |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Kwok, as you know, |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | today's meeting is being recorded and Mr. Jeff here |\n| 3 | is our official interpreter for today. |\n| 4 | Jeff will be interpreting the questions |\n| 5 | that I ask and your answers, and I ask that you wait |\n| 6 | until Jeff has made a full translation before you |\n| 7 | answer my questions. |\n| 8 | EXAMINATION BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 9 | Q
Mr. Kwok, we're going to pick up today in |\n| 10 | an area that we left off in general from the last |\n| 11 | meeting of creditors that was held back on March |\n| 12 | 21st, 2022. |\n| 13 | Has anything changed in your employment |\n| 14 | status since March 21st, 2022? |\n| 15 | A
No. |\n| 16 | Q
Has anything changed with respect to your |\n| 17 | residence? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
During the meeting held on March 21st, |\n| 20 | 2022 I asked you about the accuracy of your |\n| 21 | bankruptcy schedules and your bankruptcy statement |\n| 22 | of financial affairs. |\n| 23 | A
No change. |\n| 24 | Q
Thank you. |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Jeff, for purposes of my |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12
Page 7 of
134 |\n|---------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 |\n| 1 | questions I'm going to be following the documents |\n| 2 | that are in front of you. When I say schedules, it's |\n| 3 | this document.
And then this document is the |\n| 4 | statement of financial affairs.
Okay?
And when I |\n| 5 | refer to an ECF number, it's at the top of the page. |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
ECF number. |\n| 7 | Okay. |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay?
That should allow |\n| 9 | you to follow along and start on this page. |\n| 10 | EXAMINATION BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
Okay.
Mr. Kwok, I'm going to ask you to |\n| 12 | make sure you have in front of you, which you appear |\n| 13 | to do, Schedules A-B through J. |\n| 14 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
He has Mandarin |\n| 15 | translations in front of him. |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n\n Q I see that Mr. Baldiga, who is seated next to you, has English versions. But in front of you, Mr. Kwok, appear to be translations. Is that accurate? A Just on Schedule A-B. Q Okay. So, Mr. Kwok, when you're answering my questions today, you're going to be taking a look at your own translated versions of the bankruptcy schedules.\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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134 | |\n|---------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 7 |\n| 1 | A
Okay. | |\n| 2 | Q
Okay. | |\n| 3 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Just a minute, | |\n| 4 | Your Honor. | |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Yes. | |\n| 6 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I'm having a | |\n| 7 | little difficulty hearing the interpreter when he | |\n| 8 | interprets the witness's answers. | |\n| 9 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
So, Jack, if you | |\n| 10 | could speak up.
I'm going to move the microphone. | |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, okay. | |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
See if that works. | |\n| 13 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 14 | Q
Okay.
Mr. Kwok, starting at Question No. | |\n| 15 | 1 on Schedule A-B.
With respect to Schedule A-B at | |\n| 16 | Question No. 1, that asks if you own any legal or | |\n| 17 | equitable interest in any real estate residence or | |\n| 18 | building or similar property.
Your answer to that | |\n| 19 | Question No. 1 was no, Mr. Kwok.
Is that an | |\n| 20 | accurate answer? | |\n| 21 | A
Yes. | |\n| 22 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you owned any real estate | |\n| 23 | between the year 2018 and your bankruptcy filing in | |\n| 24 | February of 2022? | |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat | |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
8 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | that one? |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 3 | Q
Have you owned any real estate between the |\n| 4 | year 2018 and your bankruptcy filing in February |\n| 5 | 2022? |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 7 | that one?
He said he didn't hear that. |\n| 8 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 9 | Q
Mr. Kwok -- |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
I'm sorry.
I couldn't hear. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said that he |\n| 12 | didn't understand the translation.
I just want to |\n| 13 | make sure I understand first. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'll repeat the question. |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yes. |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you owned any real estate |\n| 18 | between 2018 and February of 2022? |\n| 19 | A
No. |\n| 20 | Q
Mr. Kwok, as of the bankruptcy filing in |\n| 21 | February 2022, did you have any equitable interest |\n| 22 | in any real estate anywhere in the world? |\n| 23 | A
No. |\n| 24 | Q
Mr. Kwok, as of the bankruptcy filing in |\n| 25 | February 2022, did you have any legal interest in |\n\n| | of 134 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
9 |\n| 1 | any real estate anywhere in the world? |\n| 2 | A
No. |\n| 3 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you ever owned any real |\n| 4 | estate in Hong Kong? |\n| 5 | A
No. |\n| 6 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
What was the |\n| 7 | answer? |\n| 8 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
No. |\n| 9 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 10 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you ever owned the property |\n| 11 | located at 16A South Bay Road, Hong Kong? |\n| 12 | A
No. |\n| 13 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you currently own an |\n| 14 | apartment at the Sherry Netherland in New York City? |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 16 | it.
Can I ask him repeat the -- repeat the answer? |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
You have to say -- whatever |\n| 18 | you're going to say, you have to -- you're talking |\n| 19 | to everybody, not just Holley, so I need to hear |\n| 20 | what you're saying. |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
I just - |\n| 22 | - I just want to ask him to repeat -- repeat the |\n| 23 | answer. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay? |\n\n## Case 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23 Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 Page 10\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
10 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE WITNESS:
I don't own that real estate |\n| 2 | in New York, the Sharon -- the Sharons -- at that |\n| 3 | address I don't remember, and I own -- I own 50 |\n| 4 | percent the stock -- the stock and -- |\n| 5 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No. |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
No? |\n| 7 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No. |\n| 8 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 9 | THE WITNESS:
For the family. |\n| 10 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can I ask you not to |\n| 11 | interrupt?
Can you just wait until the end and then |\n| 12 | -- |\n| 13 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- you can express whatever |\n| 15 | it is you want to say? |\n| 16 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can you please just |\n| 18 | translate Mr. Kwok's answer again? |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
I just |\n| 20 | want to repeat, make sure -- and I said it right, |\n| 21 | you know, what he said. |\n| 22 | THE WITNESS:
So, yeah, he -- he said, I |\n| 23 | owe -- I own 50 percent of the -- 50 percent, but I |\n| 24 | don't own the whole real estate, but I just |\n| 25 | represent the family. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 12 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
11 |\n|----|---------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 2 | Q
Mr. Kwok, what do you own 50 percent of? |\n| 3 | A
Bravo Luck, 50 percent of the stock powder |\n| 4 | -- power.
I don't know.
I don't understand. |\n| 5 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
(Indiscernible.) |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He owned -- he |\n| 7 | said he owns the 50 percent of it. |\n| 8 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
-- we can hear |\n| 9 | you fine, Holley. |\n| 10 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
I'm going to ask -- |\n| 11 | I'm going to -- |\n| 12 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't know if |\n| 13 | the microphone is connected to anything. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
It is.
It is.
Jeff, if |\n| 15 | you can speak up? |\n| 16 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Mr. Kwok said |\n| 17 | he owe -- he owns 50 percent of -- of the stock.
Is |\n| 18 | it like the stock of the real estate or something? |\n| 19 | I don't know.
I don't get it.
But you can help if |\n| 20 | she wants to help.
Do you want him to help a little |\n| 21 | bit? |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'd rather not. |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 24 | MS. CLAIBORN:
So, I'll just -- I'll ask |\n| 25 | follow-up questions. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
12 |\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
All right.
But I need to |\n| 3 | hear if it's a misinterpretation, so -- |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to ask a |\n| 5 | clarifying question, if I could. |\n| 6 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 7 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own 50 percent of a |\n| 8 | company called Bravo Luck? |\n| 9 | A
I represent my family to hold 50 percent |\n| 10 | of the stock. |\n| 11 | Q
Mr. Kwok, when you use the term -- |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
Could I hear that back? |\n| 13 | Could you repeat that? |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
I |\n| 15 | represent my family to hold 50 percent of the stock |\n| 16 | of the -- of the company. |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. |\n| 18 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, when you say family, what do you |\n| 20 | mean? |\n| 21 | A
My family is a big family and that |\n| 22 | includes a lot of people.
My kids and my sister-in |\n| 23 | laws, and all people together.
A lot of people. |\n| 24 | Q
Mr. Kwok, who owns an interest -- |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me.
We do have an |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
13 | | | | |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|--|\n| 1 | interpretation question. | | | | |\n| 2 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I just want to | | | | |\n| 3 | ask that, is there supposed to be summary of the | | | | |\n| 4 | (indiscernible) the interpretation? | | | | |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
To the best of Mr. Jeff's | | | | |\n| 6 | ability, it should be verbatim. | | | | |\n| 7 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Right.
So if | | | | |\n| 8 | Mr. Kwok said, my son, my daughter, my brother, my | | | | |\n| 9 | sister-in-law, my nephew, my niece, many people, | | | | |\n| 10 | then if the interpreter say, well, a lot of my | | | | |\n| 11 | families and my brother, many people, then should it | | | | |\n| 12 | be correct or not? | | | | |\n| 13 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I would prefer that Mr. | | | | |\n| 14 | Jeff translate as literally as possible.
So with | | | | |\n| 15 | that instruction, can we -- | | | | |\n| 16 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. | | | | |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- do a specific job as | | | | |\n| 18 | best we can going forward?
Thank you. | | | | |\n| 19 | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. | | | | |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | | |\n| 21 | Q
So, Mr. Kwok, who owns the company called | | | | |\n| 22 | Bravo Luck? | | | | |\n| 23 | A
My son. | | | | |\n| 24 | Q
And what is your son's name? | | | | |\n| 25 | A
Cheng Wu. | | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
14 |\n| 1 | Q
How long has your son owned Bravo Luck? |\n| 2 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 3 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Say again, |\n| 4 | please. |\n| 5 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't |\n| 6 | remember. |\n| 7 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 8 | Q
So, Mr. Kwok, what do you own 50 percent |\n| 9 | of when you explained your ownership interest in the |\n| 10 | Southern Sherry Netherland? |\n| 11 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You may |\n| 12 | interpret. |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 14 | that one again, Holley? |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 16 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you testified that you owned 50 |\n| 17 | percent of some company, and that was in response to |\n| 18 | my question if you owned the Sherry Netherland |\n| 19 | apartment.
Can you please explain what you meant? |\n| 20 | A
Sherry is a co-op.
It doesn't have the -- |\n| 21 | it doesn't have the -- it doesn't have the |\n| 22 | ownership. |\n| 23 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
May I, Ms. |\n| 24 | Holley? |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Yes, of course. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 16 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
15 | | | | |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|--|\n| 1 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
You've got to | | | | |\n| 2 | speak louder. | | | | |\n| 3 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
I'm going to put | | | | |\n| 4 | ourselves on pause for a second here. | | | | |\n| 5 | (Off the record) | | | | |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
We're back on | | | | |\n| 7 | the record after a short break, and, Mr. Kwok, you | | | | |\n| 8 | remain under oath. | | | | |\n| 9 | Jeff, could you please retranslate? | | | | |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. | | | | |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
The last question.
You | | | | |\n| 12 | want me to ask it again? | | | | |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
Would | | | | |\n| 14 | you ask it again? | | | | |\n| 15 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
I'll try it | | | | |\n| 16 | again. | | | | |\n| 17 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | | |\n| 18 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you testified today that you own | | | | |\n| 19 | 50 percent of an interest in some company, and that | | | | |\n| 20 | was the answer you gave me in response to my | | | | |\n| 21 | question if you own an apartment at the Sherry | | | | |\n| 22 | Netherland.
Can you please explain your answer? | | | | |\n| 23 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection. | | | | |\n| 24 | THE WITNESS:
I don't know how to explain | | | | |\n| 25 | it.
He said the Sherry Netherland is a co-op.
I | | | | |\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | don't have a deed on that property and I just | | | | |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|--|\n| 2 | represent my family to own 50 percent of the right. | | | | |\n| 3 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me.
Go ahead. | | | | |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Because that -- | | | | |\n| 5 | Mr. Kwok did mention the company name Bravo Luck, so | | | | |\n| 6 | Mr. Interpreter did not say the word Bravo Luck, the | | | | |\n| 7 | company that holds the interest of Sherry | | | | |\n| 8 | Netherland, and Mr. Kwok represents the family owns | | | | |\n| 9 | 50 percent of Bravo Luck, which is the holding | | | | |\n| 10 | company of owning the Sherry Netherland. The Sherry | | | | |\n| 11 | Netherland is a co-op. | | | | |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
So I'm going to make a | | | | |\n| 13 | continuing objection to the extent that the | | | | |\n| 14 | interpreter is not providing the exact words used by | | | | |\n| 15 | the witness.
I'm not ascribing any faults or | | | | |\n| 16 | anything, but obviously that's critical to the | | | | |\n| 17 | quality of the testimony and that's necessary. | | | | |\n| 18 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We need -- | | | | |\n| 19 | MR. BALDIGA:
We have to use the words | | | | |\n| 20 | used by the witness. | | | | |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm sure that Jeff is going | | | | |\n| 22 | to do his best job today to try to translate | | | | |\n| 23 | everything literally. | | | | |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. | | | | |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
But please understand that | | | | |\n\nof 134\n\n| | | | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | |\n|--|--|--|--|-----------------------------|--|--|\n|--|--|--|--|-----------------------------|--|--|\n\n| 1 | there is a familiarity with terms in this room that |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | Mr. Jeff does not have.
So to the extent that |\n| 3 | people are answering questions with shorthand |\n| 4 | versions of company names or just one words, the |\n| 5 | answer should be as specific as possible -- |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, I -- |\n| 7 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- if you could translate |\n| 8 | that. |\n| 9 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- my best but |\n| 10 | probably that interpreter honestly, Holley, the |\n| 11 | interpreter probably know the case more, the |\n| 12 | details. |\n| 13 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I agree.
Can you just -- |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
But if he -- |\n| 15 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- can you translate what I |\n| 16 | just said to Mr. Kwok, because I want to make sure |\n| 17 | -- |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh. |\n| 19 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- he answers questions in |\n| 20 | a way that are easily translatable. |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I just tell him |\n| 22 | and the answer let -- you know short and clear, but |\n| 23 | I pretty much understand what he says and -- |\n| 24 | MS. CLAIBORN:
And can you please |\n| 25 | translate Mr. Kwok's answers or comments to your |\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | comments? |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said he will |\n| 3 | try to make it a shorter and clear and -- but he |\n| 4 | needs to explain the details as much as he can |\n| 5 | because it's a -- it's related to his lifeline. |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Sarnoff? |\n| 7 | MR. SARNOFF:
Yeah.
I just wanted to make |\n| 8 | clear that to the extent there is a discrepancy |\n| 9 | between the interpreter -- the translator, the |\n| 10 | official translator and Mr. Kwok's interpreter, that |\n| 11 | the translator is the final arbiter and that unless |\n| 12 | the translator agrees with the translation |\n| 13 | difference that the interpreter is putting forth, |\n| 14 | they have to work that out before we can defer to |\n| 15 | the -- to Mr. Kwok's personal interpreter as what |\n| 16 | Mr. Kwok said. |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
I don't accept that. |\n| 18 | MR. SARNOFF:
That's fine. |\n| 19 | MR. BALDIGA:
That can be your position. |\n| 20 | MR. SARNOFF:
Okay.
The position has to |\n| 21 | be that the translator has to agree with the |\n| 22 | interpreter about what Mr. Kwok said for the record |\n| 23 | to be accurate. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
That -- I understand your |\n| 25 | position. |\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 19 |\n|----|\n\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
So, Holley, if |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | I miss anything that his personal interpreter wants |\n| 3 | to make up whatever I'm missing, some of the detail |\n| 4 | information, and is it okay for her to add on and if |\n| 5 | I agree what -- you know, what I'm missing or what |\n| 6 | he said, maybe I'm missing some detail information |\n| 7 | and some -- |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I think the better route |\n| 9 | for today -- |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- and for purposes of a |\n| 12 | clear translation and a clear record -- |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- is for you, Jeff, to |\n| 15 | interpret -- |\n| 16 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Uh-huh. |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- my questions and to |\n| 18 | interpret Mr. Kwok's answers. |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 20 | MS. CLAIBORN:
And if Mr. Kwok thinks, |\n| 21 | based on your interpretation, that you have not |\n| 22 | translated properly, then he can testify again and |\n| 23 | you can try again. |\n| 24 | But I would like to restrict the |\n| 25 | interaction that happens between translators and |\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 20 | |\n|----|--|\n| | |\n\n| 1 | between Mr. Kwok's personal translator so that we |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | have an official record where the person asking the |\n| 3 | question is me, it's being officially translated, |\n| 4 | and Mr. Kwok is giving the answers, and that also is |\n| 5 | being officially translated. |\n| 6 | MR. BALDIGA:
But, Holley, the problem |\n| 7 | with that is the witness doesn't know whether Jeff's |\n| 8 | English report is in fact accurate.
You can't leave |\n| 9 | it up to the witness.
That's why we have a check |\n| 10 | interpreter.
If he spoke English, then we wouldn't |\n| 11 | need any interpreters.
He can't do that. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I think as a practical |\n| 13 | matter, Mr. Kwok speaks enough English to know |\n| 14 | whether or not he's answered his question. |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
No, he doesn't.
I object. |\n| 16 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Well, I -- I think that |\n| 17 | that has been what I have seen from my own personal |\n| 18 | experience. |\n| 19 | That said, we're going to try and do the |\n| 20 | best we can -- |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
I agree. |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- and we'll see where we |\n| 23 | go. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
21 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 2 | Q
So back to questions and answers.
Mr. |\n| 3 | Kwok, do you own an interest in Genever Holdings |\n| 4 | Corporation? |\n| 5 | A
I just have -- in reality, I don't, but I |\n| 6 | just held -- I just represent my family to hold some |\n| 7 | interest. |\n| 8 | Q
Is anyone authorized to act on behalf of |\n| 9 | Genever Holdings Corporation aside from you? |\n| 10 | A
My son. |\n| 11 | Q
Is there a document that memorializes your |\n| 12 | ownership interest, whatever it is, in Genever |\n| 13 | Holdings Corporation? |\n| 14 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You -- you may |\n| 15 | answer. |\n| 16 | THE WITNESS:
No. |\n| 17 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Ms. Holley, can |\n| 18 | I -- first of all, the last time that -- when he was |\n| 19 | saying -- instructing the witness about his |\n| 20 | testimony, what should it be, I don't think the |\n| 21 | interpreter -- the official interpreter interpreted |\n| 22 | your instruction.
He is telling the witness what he |\n| 23 | should be doing, but not what you were saying. |\n| 24 | And then, now that the witness is saying |\n| 25 | that he asked the interpreter twice that -- you were |\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | talking about ownership, you were talking about |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | ownership interest.
Now he used twice these words, |\n| 3 | and then at the end, Mr. Jeff said, yes.
And then, |\n| 4 | so he answered no, but then the interaction was not |\n| 5 | interpreted. |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Jeff, could you |\n| 7 | translate? |\n| 8 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't know |\n| 9 | what she just said.
I don't know.
I didn't |\n| 10 | understand what she's saying. |\n| 11 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I mean, every |\n| 12 | word should be interpreted.
The witness -- every |\n| 13 | word the witness says should be interpreted.
Ms. |\n| 14 | Holley's words should be interpreted, right? |\n| 15 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Yes. |\n| 16 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Right.
But he |\n| 17 | will -- not interpreted Ms. Holley's -- and you did |\n| 18 | not interpret everything Mr. Kwok said. |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
Maybe -- |\n| 20 | maybe we should have her to interpret.
I'm going to |\n| 21 | excuse myself.
I don't know -- |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to put the -- |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- I'm not |\n| 24 | familiar with -- |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- I'm going to put the |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
of 134 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 24 |\n|---------------|-------------|--------------------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 matter on pause for a moment. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. (Off the record) MS. CLAIBORN: All right. We are back on the record after a short break. Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath. BY MS. CLAIBORN: Q Mr. Kwok, do you have any United States currency with you today? A No. Q When you filed your bankruptcy case, did you have any United States currency? A No. Q Mr. Kwok, do you own any foreign currency? A No. Q Mr. Kwok, do you own any digital currency? A No. Q Mr. Kwok, do you have any financial accounts of any kind in the United States? A No. Q Mr. Kwok, do you have any financial accounts of any kind outside of the United States? A No. Q On March 21st, you testified you have no\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | job and no source of income.
Who pays for your |\n|----|---------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | household expenses? |\n| 3 | A
Sometimes my son, sometimes my wife, or |\n| 4 | sometimes my other family member. |\n| 5 | Q
Do you have access to any credit cards? |\n| 6 | A
No. |\n| 7 | Q
Do you have access to any debit cards |\n| 8 | attached to a bank account? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | Q
How do you pay for groceries? |\n| 11 | A
My son, my wife, my family members' |\n| 12 | company pay for. |\n| 13 | Q
Where does your son live? |\n| 14 | A
London. |\n| 15 | Q
How does your son send you money? |\n| 16 | A
He has a family office in a company, New |\n| 17 | York. |\n| 18 | Q
Does the family office give you money? |\n| 19 | A
They pay the expenses above. |\n| 20 | Q
What does the term family office mean? |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You may answer. |\n| 22 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can I ask to -- |\n| 23 | ask him to repeat? |\n| 24 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Yes. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
Can you |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | -- |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
Right.
He also have to |\n| 3 | interpret for the witness what I say. |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
You haven't said anything |\n| 5 | yet and he's going to ask him to repeat his answers |\n| 6 | so then he's going to translate, and then we can |\n| 7 | have whatever discussion you want to have. |\n| 8 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
The counsel |\n| 9 | raised objection.
The interpreter did not interpret |\n| 10 | the objection. |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I can happily repeat the |\n| 12 | question, but we are not going to get anywhere today |\n| 13 | in a meaningful fashion if people are interrupting |\n| 14 | on basic questions. |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
No, I didn't interrupt, but |\n| 16 | -- |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
So let me try again. |\n| 18 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay.
But hold on.
If I |\n| 19 | object or if I say anything else, that has to be |\n| 20 | interpreted. |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
You're not waiting for |\n| 22 | space to interpret.
So, Mr. Jeff, can you interpret |\n| 23 | that exchange that just happened? |\n| 24 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
I don't |\n| 25 | know.
It's just too much interruption. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
26 |\n| 1 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Right. |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Holley, I can't |\n| 3 | do -- keep doing this.
I just too distracted and I |\n| 4 | don't know.
It just a simple -- ask the witness |\n| 5 | just a simple repeat and then -- |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Let me try -- |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- it gets all |\n| 8 | these people involved. |\n| 9 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Correct.
Let me -- |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
We're not going |\n| 11 | anywhere. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Let me try the question |\n| 13 | again. |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, what do you mean by the term, |\n| 16 | family office? |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You may answer. |\n| 18 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Baldiga, that term is |\n| 19 | all over the papers.
Can you repeat -- translate? |\n| 20 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
No, I'm not |\n| 21 | going anywhere.
Holley, I just excuse myself.
I'm |\n| 22 | sorry.
It's -- it's not going -- |\n| 23 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to put it on |\n| 24 | pause, please. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- this is too |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
27 | | |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|--|--|\n| 1 | much. | | |\n| 2 | (Off the record) | | |\n| 3 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We're back on the record | | |\n| 4 | after a short break. | | |\n| 5 | Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath.
During | | |\n| 6 | the break, I spoke with Attorney Baldiga and we have | | |\n| 7 | agreed that all objections as to form of the | | |\n| 8 | question are reserved. | | |\n| 9 | I'm going to go back to my questions. | | |\n| 10 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | |\n| 11 | Q
The question we left off after the break | | |\n| 12 | was what do you mean by the term family office? | | |\n| 13 | A
They are representing my big family.
It's | | |\n| 14 | a company my son, my daughter, my wife, and it's a | | |\n| 15 | company representing my family for investment. | | |\n| 16 | Q
What is the name of the company? | | |\n| 17 | A
Golden Spring Europe. | | |\n| 18 | Q
Do you mean Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 19 | A
Roughly the name. | | |\n| 20 | Q
Who pays for the meals that you eat? | | |\n| 21 | A
Sometimes my wife's company, sometimes my | | |\n| 22 | family office, my son's company. | | |\n| 23 | Q
Mr. Kwok, when you use the term family | | |\n| 24 | office, are you referring to the company known as | | |\n| 25 | Golden Spring New York Limited? | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
28 |\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What's the name |\n| 2 | of the company?
Can I -- can you repeat it? |\n| 3 | MS. CLAIBORN:
The name is Golden Spring |\n| 4 | New York Limited. |\n| 5 | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 6 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 7 | Q
In your bankruptcy case, you filed a |\n| 8 | report covering your expenses for the month of |\n| 9 | February. |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
May I repeat |\n| 11 | again? |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Maybe I'll try it again. |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Thank you. |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you filed a monthly operating |\n| 16 | report covering the month of February 2022, and that |\n| 17 | report shows you spent approximately \\$160,000. |\n| 18 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
I object. |\n| 19 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 20 | Q
Who funded the disbursements of \\$160,000? |\n| 21 | A
Some from the Golden Spring family office |\n| 22 | and the company, some were paid by my wife and my |\n| 23 | wife's company. |\n| 24 | Q
What is the name of your wife's company? |\n| 25 | A
Greenwich, in Connecticut. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
29 |\n| 1 | Q
Are you referring to the company? |\n| 2 | A
Yes, the company name. |\n| 3 | Q
What expenses does your wife company, |\n| 4 | Greenwich, pay for? |\n| 5 | A
Mostly food, because I live in my wife's |\n| 6 | house.
We share the cleaning, the expenses because |\n| 7 | -- and also the garden maintenance expenses. |\n| 8 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Okay.
Can we take |\n| 9 | a quick time out so I can speak with my co-counsel? |\n| 10 | Or with my partner. |\n| 11 | MR. BALDIGA:
No, let's just wait. |\n| 12 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 13 | Q
Where does your wife's company, Greenwich, |\n| 14 | get its money from? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Did your wife's company, Greenwich, pay |\n| 17 | for any professional expenses? |\n| 18 | A
I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q
Is your wife the person who actually makes |\n| 20 | the payments? |\n| 21 | A
Yes. |\n| 22 | Q
Does your wife have a checking account? |\n| 23 | A
I don't know. |\n| 24 | Q
Does your wife have a debit card? |\n| 25 | A
I don't know. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
30 |\n| 1 | Q | When you eat in a restaurant with your |\n| 2 | | wife, who pays the bill? |\n| 3 | A | I never went to a restaurant with my wife. |\n| 4 | Q | Ever? |\n| 5 | A | I think I was chased by these people and I |\n| 6 | never went. | Thinks I -- you know, I think I was |\n| 7 | | chased by these people. |\n| 8 | Q | Does your wife buy groceries? |\n| 9 | A | Sometimes. |\n| 10 | Q | How does she pay for them? |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q | Why does Golden Spring New York pay for |\n| 13 | | some of your personal expenses? |\n| 14 | A | Because I'm one of the family member, and |\n| 15 | | my son is very successful and he loves me very much. |\n| 16 | Q | Is there any other reason? |\n| 17 | A | I don't know. |\n| 18 | Q | What personal living expenses of yours |\n| 19 | | does Golden Spring pay for? |\n| 20 | A | The expense from security because I was |\n| 21 | | chased by the people in the back, and the |\n| 22 | | transportation, clothing, and some items for living. |\n| 23 | Q | Who is the person at Golden Spring New |\n| 24 | York -- | |\n| 25 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Wait a minute.
I'm going |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
31 |\n| 1 | to ask a full question. |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 3 | Q
So who is the person at Golden Spring New |\n| 4 | York who authorizes the payment of your personal |\n| 5 | living expenses? |\n| 6 | A
My son. |\n| 7 | Q
Please explain how your son authorizes |\n| 8 | those payments. |\n| 9 | A
I usually communicate with Golden Spring, |\n| 10 | the company's manager and CEO. |\n| 11 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
(Indiscernible) |\n| 12 | director, not manager. |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Could you -- |\n| 14 | okay.
Director, not a manager. |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
Mr. Kwok, who is the director or manager |\n| 18 | that you just referred to? |\n| 19 | A
Wang Yanping. |\n| 20 | Q
Is Ms. Ping a officer of Golden Spring New |\n| 21 | York? |\n| 22 | A
She is a Miss.
She's a lady. |\n| 23 | Q
Is Ms. Ping a corporate officer of Golden |\n| 24 | Spring New York? |\n| 25 | A
Yes. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
32 |\n| 1 | Q | What is her title? |\n| 2 | A | She is a officer or director. |\n| 3 | Q | Does she have a position title? |\n| 4 | A | I don't know. |\n| 5 | Q | Mr. Kwok, are you a corporate officer of |\n| 6 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 7 | A | Now? |\n| 8 | Q | Yes. |\n| 9 | A | No. |\n| 10 | Q | Mr. Kwok, have you ever been in the past, |\n| 11 | | a corporate officer of Golden Spring New York? |\n| 12 | A | I seem to hold a title when the company |\n| 13 | | was established in 2015.
I forgot what title was it |\n| 14 | then. | |\n| 15 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you own any interest in |\n| 16 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 17 | A | No. |\n| 18 | Q | In the past, have you ever had any kind of |\n| 19 | | ownership interest in Golden Spring New York? |\n| 20 | A | No. |\n| 21 | Q | Were you involved in the formation of |\n| 22 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 23 | A | Yes. |\n| 24 | Q | What was your role in the formation of |\n| 25 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
of 134 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 34 |\n|---------------|-------------------|--------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|---------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 33 |\n| 1 | A | | Consultant and giving advice, suggestions. | |\n| 2 | Q | | Was your son involved in the formation of | |\n| 3 | | Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 4 | A | He is the main person. | He -- he was the | |\n| 5 | main person. | | | |\n| 6 | Q | | When Golden Spring New York was created, | |\n| 7 | | | who had the ownership interest in New York -- Golden | |\n| 8 | | New -- Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 9 | A | My son. | | |\n| 10 | Q | | Did Golden Spring Hong Kong have any | |\n| 11 | | | ownership interest in Golden Spring New York? | |\n| 12 | A | | I don't know the detail of the interest | |\n| 13 | | | and because this -- these two combined, it's | |\n| 14 | | considered one thing. | | |\n| 15 | Q | | Is Golden Spring Hong Kong a separate | |\n| 16 | | company from Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 17 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 18 | Q | | Who owns Golden Spring Hong Kong? | |\n| 19 | A | My son. | | |\n| 20 | Q | | In 2015, when Golden Spring New York was | |\n| 21 | | | formed, who owned Golden Spring Hong Kong? | |\n| 22 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 23 | Q | | Are you a corporate officer of Golden | |\n| 24 | Spring Hong Kong? | | | |\n| 25 | A | I don't remember. | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
34 |\n| 1 | Q
Have you ever been a cooperate officer of |\n| 2 | Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 3 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q
Do you have any ownership interest in |\n| 5 | Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 6 | A
No. |\n| 7 | Q
Have you ever in the past, had an |\n| 8 | ownership interest in Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | Q
What type of business is Golden Spring New |\n| 11 | York engaged in? |\n| 12 | A
I don't know. |\n| 13 | Q
How does Golden Spring New York generate |\n| 14 | revenue? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Ms. Holley, I |\n| 17 | don't know if this -- the (indiscernible) he said, |\n| 18 | how does Golden Spring New York generate revenue, |\n| 19 | not how does Golden Spring New York making money, |\n| 20 | right? |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
That was basically my |\n| 22 | question. |\n| 23 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yeah, so the |\n| 24 | interpreter should not say -- interpret it in such a |\n| 25 | way that Golden Spring New York -- how does Golden |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
35 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Spring New York make money, to the -- to the -- to |\n| 2 | Mr. Kwok. |\n| 3 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Generate money, |\n| 4 | yeah.
Generate revenue, generate money. |\n| 5 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No, but you said |\n| 6 | -- |\n| 7 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm happy to ask it |\n| 8 | specifically. |\n| 9 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 10 | Q
How does Golden Spring New York make |\n| 11 | money? |\n| 12 | A
I don't know. |\n| 13 | Q
In the year 2015, were you involved in |\n| 14 | Golden Spring New York's business? |\n| 15 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 16 | Q
Have you ever given a gift of money to |\n| 17 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
Have you ever given any money to Golden |\n| 20 | Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A
No. |\n| 22 | Q
Have you ever transferred any property of |\n| 23 | any kind to Golden Spring New York? |\n| 24 | A
No. |\n| 25 | Q
Have you ever funded Golden Spring New |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
36 |\n| 1 | York in any way? | |\n| 2 | A | No. |\n| 3 | Q | Have you ever loaned money to Golden |\n| 4 | Spring New York? | |\n| 5 | A | No. |\n| 6 | Q | Have you ever invested any of your own |\n| 7 | | money in Golden Spring New York? |\n| 8 | A | No. |\n| 9 | Q | What corporate position does Yanping Wang |\n| 10 | Hold? | |\n| 11 | A | Officer and director. |\n| 12 | Q | Is Yanping Wang the president of Golden |\n| 13 | Spring New York? | |\n| 14 | A | Yes. |\n| 15 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any other |\n| 16 | | corporate officers? |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | Who are they? |\n| 19 | A | I don't remember clearly about their |\n| 20 | names. | |\n| 21 | Q | Please tell me what you remember. |\n| 22 | A | What -- I don't remember their names |\n| 23 | | clearly and -- because I don't even remember |\n| 24 | attorney's names. | I don't want to misleading you, |\n| 25 | Holley. | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
37 |\n| 1 | Q | How many officers does Golden Spring New |\n| 2 | York have? | |\n| 3 | A | I don't remember.
Oh, I don't know. |\n| 4 | Sorry. | I don't know. |\n| 5 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any |\n| 6 | directors? | |\n| 7 | A | Yanping Wang. |\n| 8 | Q | Is Ms. Wang the only director of Golden |\n| 9 | Spring New York? | |\n| 10 | A | I don't know. |\n| 11 | Q | Where does Golden Spring New York get the |\n| 12 | | money that it uses to pay your personal expenses? |\n| 13 | A | I don't know. |\n| 14 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any |\n| 15 | employees? | |\n| 16 | A | Yes. |\n| 17 | Q | How many? |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q | Are you currently involved in any way in |\n| 20 | | the business of Golden Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A | No. |\n| 22 | Q | What does Golden Spring New York own? |\n| 23 | A | I don't know. |\n| 24 | Q | Golden Spring New York is willing to loan |\n| 25 | | you the sum of \\$8 million.
Where is it getting that |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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38 |\n| 1 | \\$8 million from? |\n| 2 | A
I don't know. |\n| 3 | Q
Are you the person who asked Golden Spring |\n| 4 | New York to loan you \\$8 million? |\n| 5 | A
No. |\n| 6 | Q
Who asked Golden Spring New York to loan |\n| 7 | you \\$8 million? |\n| 8 | A
My attorney. |\n| 9 | Q
Which attorney? |\n| 10 | A
Aaron Mitchell here. |\n| 11 | Q
Are you referring to Aaron Mitchell? |\n| 12 | A
Now I remember his name now. |\n| 13 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Just for the |\n| 14 | record, I'm not sure Mr. Mitchell has registered an |\n| 15 | appearance yet.
It would be appropriate if he's |\n| 16 | going to be here representing the debtor, if he |\n| 17 | (indiscernible) his appearance. |\n| 18 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I believe I did read Mr. |\n| 19 | Mitchell's name earlier today. |\n| 20 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
He hasn't filed -- |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
He did sign -- |\n| 22 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
-- an appearance in |\n| 23 | this matter. |\n| 24 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Thank you.
Can you |\n\ntranslate that?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
of 134 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 40 |\n|---------------|-------------------|---------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 39 |\n| 1 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | I didn't hear | |\n| 2 | totally clearly. | | I know it's some distance. | I |\n| 3 | don't -- | | | |\n| 4 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 5 | Q | | Does Golden Spring New York have any bank | |\n| 6 | accounts? | | | |\n| 7 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 8 | Q | | Do you have access to Golden Spring New | |\n| 9 | | York's financial accounts? | | |\n| 10 | A | No. | | |\n| 11 | Q | | Do you have authority to enter into | |\n| 12 | | | financial transactions on behalf of Golden Spring | |\n| 13 | New York? | | | |\n| 14 | A | No. | | |\n| 15 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: | No. | No, that's |\n| 16 | not the question. | | | |\n| 17 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | What was it? | |\n| 18 | | MS. CLAIBORN: | I'm happy to repeat the | |\n| 19 | question. | | | |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 21 | Q | | Do you have authority to enter into | |\n| 22 | | | financial transactions on behalf of Golden Spring | |\n| 23 | New York? | | Mr. Kwok, if you don't answer -- if you | |\n| 24 | | don't understand my question -- | | |\n| 25 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | He's asking if | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
40 |\n| 1 | he -- if I was asking if he has the right to use the |\n| 2 | -- the Golden Spring New York, the accounts for |\n| 3 | transactions.
You know. |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
That was not my question. |\n| 5 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 6 | Q
Mr. Kwok, are you authorized to enter into |\n| 7 | any kind of financial transactions on behalf of |\n| 8 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me, the interpreter |\n| 11 | might have a comment. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can you translate that, |\n| 13 | please? |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
She said |\n| 15 | that it's the trading -- trading of the financial |\n| 16 | trading -- |\n| 17 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Transaction. |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- transaction |\n| 19 | to -- |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Not trading. |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said that, |\n| 22 | no, he was not -- I was not authorized to do the |\n| 23 | transactions, financial transactions. |\n| 24 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 25 | Q
What, if anything, do you currently do for |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
41 |\n| 1 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 2 | A | No. |\n| 3 | Q | Is Golden Spring New York funding your |\n| 4 | | son's personal living expenses? |\n| 5 | A | I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q | Is Golden Spring New York funding your |\n| 7 | | daughter's personal living expenses? |\n| 8 | A | I don't know. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you owe any money to Golden Spring New |\n| 10 | York? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | How much? |\n| 13 | A | Like more than \\$21 million. |\n| 14 | Q | How do you owe more than \\$21 million to |\n| 15 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 16 | A | Because in the past five years and I was |\n| 17 | | sued by a lot of creditors. |\n| 18 | Q | Did Golden Spring New York -- |\n| 19 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
I apologize. |\n| 20 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I just ask him |\n| 21 | to repeat. | |\n| 22 | | THE WITNESS:
In the past five years, I |\n| 23 | | was chased by Chinese Communist Party. |\n| 24 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 25 | it. | Ask -- I'm asking him to repeat it one more |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | time. |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
Short -- short answer. |\n| 3 | THE WITNESS:
In the past five years I was |\n| 4 | trapped -- trapped by some of the cases from Chinese |\n| 5 | Communist Party, designed by the Chinese Communist |\n| 6 | Party, including the case past, that case.
I need |\n| 7 | to -- need to pay a large amount of legal fees so |\n| 8 | that's why I got the support from the Golden Spring |\n| 9 | New York.
This is the main reason I owe \\$21 |\n| 10 | million. |\n| 11 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Interpreter |\n| 12 | missed that, the legal -- legal fee. |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, I said |\n| 14 | the legal fee.
I said that.
Did I say legal fee? |\n| 15 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I didn't think |\n| 16 | so, but as long as you say that. |\n| 17 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 18 | Q
How much of the \\$21 million is comprised |\n| 19 | of legal fees? |\n| 20 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 21 | that one again? |\n| 22 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 23 | Q
How much of the \\$21 million -- |\n| 24 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 25 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
43 |\n| 1 | Q | -- is comprised of legal fees? |\n| 2 | A | I think most of it is legal fee. |\n| 3 | Q | Why is Golden Spring New York paying your |\n| 4 | legal fees? | |\n| 5 | A | Because the Golden Spring New York is my |\n| 6 | | son and my family's company and they love me very |\n| 7 | much. | They hope -- they hoping me to live, not be |\n| 8 | | killed by the people behind me. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you have any written agreement with |\n| 10 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | What legal -- sorry.
What written |\n| 13 | | agreements do you have with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 14 | A | It's agreement for borrowing -- borrowing |\n| 15 | money. | |\n| 16 | Q | When did you enter into that agreement to |\n| 17 | borrow money? | |\n| 18 | A | A few years ago.
I know -- I don't know |\n| 19 | rough time. | |\n| 20 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't recall. |\n| 21 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
What -- |\n| 22 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What -- yeah, I |\n| 23 | | don't remember the time. |\n| 24 | | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 25 | Q | What are the terms of the legal agreement |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 45 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
44 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | with Golden Spring New York?
Sorry.
Let me |\n| 2 | rephrase that.
What are the terms of the written |\n| 3 | agreement with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 4 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 5 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Sorry.
Could you |\n| 6 | repeat the English, please? |\n| 7 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Go ahead and say that -- |\n| 8 | repeat. |\n| 9 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't |\n| 10 | remember. |\n| 11 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 12 | Q
Are you obligated under that written |\n| 13 | agreement with Golden Spring New York to pay back |\n| 14 | all of the money? |\n| 15 | A
Yes. |\n| 16 | MR. BALDIGA:
There's more to the |\n| 17 | question. |\n| 18 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 19 | Q
That Golden Spring paid to lawyers on your |\n| 20 | behalf. |\n| 21 | A
Yes. |\n| 22 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
It was only |\n| 23 | (indiscernible) of a difference in the interpreting. |\n| 24 | For example, the interpreter did not interpret under |\n| 25 | the agreement, are you obligated to make them all -- |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
45 |\n| 1 | to pay back all the money.
All the money that is, |\n| 2 | you know -- |\n| 3 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
-- spent on the |\n| 5 | lawyer. |\n| 6 | MR. BALDIGA:
Maybe Holley can clarify |\n| 7 | that. |\n| 8 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yeah. |\n| 9 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 10 | Q
I'm going to ask a long question.
I'm |\n| 11 | going to break it into parts. |\n| 12 | Mr. Kwok, are you obligated to pay back |\n| 13 | Golden Spring New York for all of the money that |\n| 14 | Golden Spring New York paid to lawyers on your |\n| 15 | behalf? |\n| 16 | A
Yes. |\n| 17 | Q
Is that agreement with Golden Spring New |\n| 18 | York in writing? |\n| 19 | A
Yes. |\n| 20 | Q
Is that the same written agreement you |\n| 21 | mentioned a few minutes ago? |\n| 22 | A
Yes. |\n| 23 | Q
Do you have more than one written |\n| 24 | agreement with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 25 | A
Yes. |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
46 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Q
What are your other written agreements |\n| 2 | with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 3 | A
In the past week, I had a case with Logan |\n| 4 | Cheng.
The settlement with Logan Cheng, the money |\n| 5 | from -- for the settlement is the money I borrow |\n| 6 | from Golden Spring New York. |\n| 7 | Q
Do you have any other written agreements |\n| 8 | with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 9 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 10 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a fee |\n| 11 | agreement with any of the attorneys who represent |\n| 12 | you in litigation? |\n| 13 | Can you -- can you answer, Mr. Kwok? |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Any agreement |\n| 15 | with -- can you repeat one more time? |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a -- any |\n| 18 | kind of a fee agreement with any of the lawyers who |\n| 19 | represent Mr. Kwok in litigation? |\n| 20 | A
I don't know. |\n| 21 | Q
Mr. Kwok, who represents you in the |\n| 22 | litigation you filed against UBS in London? |\n| 23 | A
Attorney -- attorney office in London. |\n| 24 | Q
What is the name? |\n| 25 | A
I don't remember completely about the |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 48 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 |\n|----|---------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | English name. |\n| 2 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a fee |\n| 3 | agreement with that attorney in London? |\n| 4 | A
There should be. |\n| 5 | MR. BALDIGA:
I'm sorry.
What was the |\n| 6 | answer? |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Should have. |\n| 8 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 9 | Q
Do you know if it does have enough -- have |\n| 10 | a fee agreement? |\n| 11 | A
I'm not sure. |\n| 12 | Q
Who is the person at Golden Spring New |\n| 13 | York who authorized payment of your litigation |\n| 14 | expenses? |\n| 15 | A
My son. |\n| 16 | Q
Does your son have to speak with anyone |\n| 17 | else in order to use Golden Spring New York money |\n| 18 | for your benefit? |\n| 19 | A
Yes. |\n| 20 | Q
Who does your son need to speak with? |\n| 21 | A
He needs to talk to my family member, |\n| 22 | which includes more than 100 family members, and |\n| 23 | that because they have a fund. |\n| 24 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
That -- the |\n| 25 | number is 181. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
48 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 2 | Q
Mr. Kwok, if your son wanted to give you |\n| 3 | \\$100, would he have to seek authority from someone |\n| 4 | at Golden Spring New York? |\n| 5 | A
I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q
When you say your son has to speak with |\n| 7 | someone at Golden Spring New York, how many people |\n| 8 | does he need to speak with? |\n| 9 | A
I don't know details. |\n| 10 | Q
With respect to the \\$8 million that Golden |\n| 11 | Spring New York is willing to loan you, did your son |\n| 12 | have to obtain consent of other people at Golden |\n| 13 | Spring New York for that transaction? |\n| 14 | A
I don't know. |\n| 15 | Q
Have you ever been to the office of Golden |\n| 16 | Spring New York in New York City? |\n| 17 | A
Yes. |\n| 18 | Q
How often do you go to the Golden Spring |\n| 19 | New York office in New York City? |\n| 20 | A
Not -- not fixed.
Sometimes I go there a |\n| 21 | few times a month.
Sometimes I haven't -- I haven't |\n| 22 | gone there for a few months. |\n| 23 | Q
When was the last time you went to the |\n| 24 | Golden Spring New York office? |\n| 25 | A
Yesterday. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
49 |\n| 1 | Q | Why did you go? |\n| 2 | A | For preparing today's meeting. |\n| 3 | Q | Did your son speak with Yanping Wang about |\n| 4 | | the \\$8 million loan? |\n| 5 | A | I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q | Did you negotiate the terms of the \\$8 |\n| 7 | | million loan from Golden Spring New York? |\n| 8 | A | No. |\n| 9 | Q | Who was the person who negotiated the \\$8 |\n| 10 | | million loan on your behalf? |\n| 11 | A | My attorney. |\n| 12 | Q | Which attorney? |\n| 13 | A | Aaron Mitchell. |\n| 14 | Q | Who did Attorney Aaron Mitchell negotiate |\n| 15 | | with at Golden Spring New York? |\n| 16 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 17 | one? | |\n| 18 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 19 | Q | Who did Attorney Aaron Mitchell negotiate |\n| 20 | | with at Golden Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A | I don't know.
My son. |\n| 22 | Q | Did you borrow the sum of \\$1 million from |\n| 23 | | Lamp Capital, LLC in February 2022? |\n| 24 | A | Yes. |\n| 25 | Q | Is that loan from Lamp Capital, LLC in |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 51 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 50 |\n|----|---------------|-------------------------------------------|----|\n| 1 | writing? | | |\n| 2 | A | No. | |\n| 3 | Q | What are the loan terms of the loan from | |\n| 4 | Lamp Capital? | | |\n| 5 | A | I don't know detail. | |\n| 6 | Q | Who are the members of Lamp Capital, LLC? | |\n| 7 | A | My son. | |\n| 8 | Q | Are there any other members of Lamp | |\n| 9 | Capital, LLC? | | |\n| 10 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 11 | Q | Who is the managing member of Lamp | |\n| 12 | Capital, LLC? | | |\n| 13 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 14 | Q | Who was the person at Lamp Capital who | |\n| 15 | | authorized the loan? | |\n| 16 | A | My son. | |\n| 17 | Q | What are the assets of Lamp Capital, LLC? | |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 19 | Q | What does Lamp Capital own? | |\n| 20 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 21 | Q | Have you ever funded Lamp Capital in any | |\n| 22 | way? | | |\n| 23 | A | No. | |\n| 24 | Q | Have you ever invested any money in Lamp | |\n| 25 | Capital, LLC? | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
51 |\n| 1 | A | No. |\n| 2 | Q | Why did Lamp Capital loan you the \\$1 |\n| 3 | | million and not Golden Spring New York? |\n| 4 | A | I don't know. |\n| 5 | Q | What is the source of the \\$1 million that |\n| 6 | | Lamp Capital loaned to you? |\n| 7 | A | I don't know. |\n| 8 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Why don't we take a five |\n| 9 | | minute break for the restroom?
We'll reconvene |\n| 10 | | actually, at 12:10. |\n| 11 | (Recess) | |\n| 12 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
We are back on the record |\n| 13 | | after a short break. |\n| 14 | | Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath. |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 16 | Q | Mr. Kwok, were you involved in the |\n| 17 | | selection of the lawyers who represent you in your |\n| 18 | action in London? | |\n| 19 | A | Yes. |\n| 20 | Q | Did your counsel in London request a |\n| 21 | retainer? | |\n| 22 | A | Yes. |\n| 23 | Q | And did you pay your counsel in London a |\n| 24 | retainer? | |\n| 25 | A | Yes. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-----------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
52 |\n| 1 | Q | How much? |\n| 2 | A | 300,000 pound. |\n| 3 | Q | And when was that 300,000 pound retainer |\n| 4 | paid? | |\n| 5 | A | Roughly two years ago. |\n| 6 | Q | Who funded the retainer? |\n| 7 | A | My son helped to pay -- pay that. |\n| 8 | Q | Did your son pay all of the retainer? |\n| 9 | A | Yes. |\n| 10 | Q | Did your son pay the retainer out of his |\n| 11 | personal funds? | |\n| 12 | A | Should be from the company, England. |\n| 13 | Q | What was the name of the company who paid |\n| 14 | the retainer? | |\n| 15 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 16 | Q | Did Golden Spring New York pay the |\n| 17 | | retainer to your London counsel? |\n| 18 | A | I don't remember details because other |\n| 19 | | than the retainer and the other -- a few more |\n| 20 | | payments in -- you know, after. |\n| 21 | Q | Mr. Kwok, if you wanted to go buy a pair |\n| 22 | | of shoes, how would you pay for a pair of shoes? |\n| 23 | A | I will ask Golden Spring New York to pay |\n| 24 | for it. | |\n| 25 | Q | And how would that process work? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
53 |\n| 1 | A | And I will talk to the director and E Wa |\n| 2 | | Wang (ph) and ask her to contact -- talk to my son |\n| 3 | | and to pay for the shoes. |\n| 4 | Q | How does the shoe company get the money? |\n| 5 | The shoe store. | |\n| 6 | A | I don't know.
Usually, it's E Wa Wang and |\n| 7 | | communicate, because my English ability is not |\n| 8 | | capable to communicate. |\n| 9 | Q | If you went to a store, tried on shoes, |\n| 10 | | and wanted to take them home from the store, how |\n| 11 | | would you pay for the shoes? |\n| 12 | A | In the recent few years I basically never |\n| 13 | | bought a pair of shoes. |\n| 14 | Q | What was the last thing you paid for? |\n| 15 | A | Recently, I didn't go to buy anything. |\n| 16 | | MR. BALDIGA:
I'm sorry.
Could you repeat |\n| 17 | that? | |\n| 18 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Recently, I |\n| 19 | | didn't go to buy anything. |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 21 | Q | My question wasn't recently.
My question |\n| 22 | | was, what was the last thing that you purchased? |\n| 23 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 24 | Q | Do you ever eat in a restaurant? |\n| 25 | A | Recent years, I didn't. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 55 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
54 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Q
Before COVID 19, did you eat in |\n| 2 | restaurants? |\n| 3 | A
Very rare because I was afraid to be |\n| 4 | killed by the people behind me, because I was always |\n| 5 | in the process getting chased. |\n| 6 | Q
When you ate in a restaurant, were you the |\n| 7 | person who paid the bill? |\n| 8 | A
I don't have money to pay, so that's why I |\n| 9 | don't go there. |\n| 10 | Q
Mr. Kwok, if you wanted to go buy a cup of |\n| 11 | coffee, how would you pay for it? |\n| 12 | A
I never bought a cup of coffee.
I was -- |\n| 13 | I'm afraid the people behind me might poison me in |\n| 14 | the coffee. |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, if you wanted to buy water, |\n| 16 | you're out and about and you want to buy water, how |\n| 17 | would you pay for it? |\n| 18 | A
Well, since 2107, I don't -- I didn't go |\n| 19 | out to buy water outside. |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
There was a |\n| 21 | (indiscernible) difference in the nuance. |\n| 22 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you -- can |\n| 23 | you repeat it -- can you repeat -- |\n| 24 | THE WITNESS:
Since 2017, I never went |\n| 25 | outside, walk around, and then buy water or coffee. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
55 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 2 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you have any interest in any |\n| 3 | mutual funds? | |\n| 4 | A | No. |\n| 5 | Q | Do you own any bonds? |\n| 6 | A | No. |\n| 7 | Q | Do you own any publically traded stock in |\n| 8 | any company? | |\n| 9 | A | No. |\n| 10 | Q | Do you own any cars? |\n| 11 | A | No. |\n| 12 | Q | Do you have access to any cars? |\n| 13 | A | Yes. |\n| 14 | Q | And whose cars do you have access to? |\n| 15 | A | My son's and Golden Springs. |\n| 16 | Q | Does Golden Spring provide you with a car |\n| 17 | | that's yours to use? |\n| 18 | A | Yes. |\n| 19 | Q | What kind of car is that? |\n| 20 | A | Maybach |\n| 21 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Maybach. |\n| 22 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Huh? |\n| 23 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Maybach. |\n| 24 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Maybach?
Okay. |\n| 25 | | I don't know the name of it. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
56 |\n| 1 | | THE WITNESS:
Maybach. |\n| 2 | | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 3 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you have a driver's license? |\n| 4 | A | I have a Hong Kong's driver's license. |\n| 5 | Q | Do you drive in the United States? |\n| 6 | A | Almost no. |\n| 7 | Q | When you do drive, whose car do you drive? |\n| 8 | A | Golden Spring's. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you keep a car at your Greenwich |\n| 10 | residence? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | And what car is that? |\n| 13 | A | Maybach. |\n| 14 | Q | Do you own any aircraft? |\n| 15 | A | No. |\n| 16 | Q | Have you ever owned any aircraft? |\n| 17 | A | Before, yes. |\n| 18 | Q | When did you own aircraft? |\n| 19 | A | Probably 2010 to 2016. |\n| 20 | Q | How many air craft did you own? |\n| 21 | A | One. |\n| 22 | Q | And what was it? |\n| 23 | A | Airbus 319.
319. |\n| 24 | Q | And what happened to the Airbus 319? |\n| 25 | A | It was confiscated by UBS and the Chinese |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 58 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 57 |\n|----|--------------------|---------------------------------------------------|----|\n| 1 | Communist Party. | | |\n| 2 | Q | Okay.
Do you own any water craft? | |\n| 3 | A | No. | |\n| 4 | Q | Who owns the yacht known as the Lady May? | |\n| 5 | A | My daughter. | |\n| 6 | Q | Does your daughter own the Lady May in her | |\n| 7 | personal name? | | |\n| 8 | A | Should be from a company. | |\n| 9 | Q | And what is the name of the company that | |\n| 10 | owns the Lady May? | | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 12 | Q | Where is the Lady May currently? | |\n| 13 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 14 | Q | Since the bankruptcy filing, have you | |\n| 15 | | asked your daughter to return the Lady May to New | |\n| 16 | York? | | |\n| 17 | A | I did ask her and asked her to talk to her | |\n| 18 | | attorney to return the boat back to New York. | |\n| 19 | Q | When did you have that conversation? | |\n| 20 | A | Last month, after the court date.
After | |\n| 21 | met with you. | | |\n| 22 | Q | And what did your daughter say? | |\n| 23 | A | She said that she would talk to her | |\n| 24 | | attorney and then talk to my attorney. | |\n| 25 | Q | Did your daughter agree to have the Lady | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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58 |\n| 1 | May return to New York? |\n| 2 | A
She was not willing to talk to me in any |\n| 3 | detail.
She want -- she wanted to talk to her |\n| 4 | attorney. |\n| 5 | Q
Did your daughter say no to your request |\n| 6 | that she return the Lady May to New York? |\n| 7 | A
No, he didn't -- she didn't. |\n| 8 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
The question was |\n| 9 | not completely interpreted. |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I know, but she |\n| 11 | -- she already -- he already answered and -- |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
Wait until he finishes. |\n| 13 | THE WITNESS:
No, he -- no. |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own or have an interest |\n| 16 | in any trust? |\n| 17 | A
No. |\n| 18 | Q
Are you the beneficiary of any trusts? |\n| 19 | A
No. |\n| 20 | Q
This is a long question.
Mr. Kwok, where |\n| 21 | is the \\$12,000 check paid to you in connection with |\n| 22 | your lawsuit against Baosheng Guo? |\n| 23 | A
It's in attorney's escrow account. |\n| 24 | Q
What is the name of the attorney who is |\n| 25 | holding the check? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 60 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
59 |\n|----|---------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | A
I can't pronounce the attorney's name |\n| 2 | completely. |\n| 3 | Q
What is the attorney's first name? |\n| 4 | A
I cannot -- I'm not able to read out the - |\n| 5 | - the pronounce his name. |\n| 6 | Q
Is the attorney who's holding the check |\n| 7 | the same attorney who represented you in that |\n| 8 | lawsuit? |\n| 9 | A
It should be. |\n| 10 | Q
On your Schedule A-B, you did not disclose |\n| 11 | that \\$12,000 check.
Why? |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
Wait for a question.
No. |\n| 13 | Could he interpret that? |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 15 | Q
Why did you not disclose that \\$12,000 |\n| 16 | check? |\n| 17 | A
My attorney thinks because the money is |\n| 18 | not in my account, so I'm not allowed to -- we're |\n| 19 | not -- I'm not supposed to disclose that. |\n| 20 | Q
Okay.
Mr. Kwok, do you have any patents? |\n| 21 | A
No. |\n| 22 | Q
Do you have any copyrights? |\n| 23 | A
No. |\n| 24 | Q
Do you have any intellectual property of |\n| 25 | any kind? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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60 |\n| 1 | A
No. |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me.
Holley, I'm not |\n| 3 | sure if you're going to come back to it, but there |\n| 4 | is a reference to the \\$12,000. |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I did see that. |\n| 6 | MR. BALDIGA:
Oh, you said he didn't |\n| 7 | disclose it. |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
He did not.
It's not in |\n| 9 | response to the questions on Schedule A-B. |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
It's right there. |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We can disagree about |\n| 12 | whether or not it's disclosed, but it's my position |\n| 13 | that it's not disclosed.
I understand you might |\n| 14 | take a different position. |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 16 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own any interest in a |\n| 17 | company called Ace Decade Holdings Limited? |\n| 18 | A
Yes. |\n| 19 | Q
What is the nature of your ownership |\n| 20 | interest in Ace Decade Holdings Limited? |\n| 21 | A
So I have the interest and ask for UBS to |\n| 22 | pay back \\$500 million.
That kind of interest. |\n| 23 | Q
Are you the only legal owner of Ace Decade |\n| 24 | Holdings Limited? |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Are you the |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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61 |\n| 1 | only -- can you repeat that question? |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 3 | Q
Are you the only legal owner of Ace |\n| 4 | Decades? |\n| 5 | A
I am a legal representing owner. |\n| 6 | Q
Are there any other owners of Ace Decade? |\n| 7 | A
No. |\n| 8 | Q
When did you become an owner of Ace Decade |\n| 9 | Holdings Limited? |\n| 10 | A
At the end of 2014. |\n| 11 | Q
This is a long question.
In your |\n| 12 | litigation in London against UBS, you are an |\n| 13 | individual plaintiff.
What is the basis for your |\n| 14 | claim as an individual plaintiff? |\n| 15 | A
Because I'm the 100 percent representative |\n| 16 | for Ace Decade. |\n| 17 | Q
In the litigation against UBS in London, |\n| 18 | there is an allegation that Ace Decade gave \\$500 |\n| 19 | million to Dawn State Limited.
Where did Ace Decade |\n| 20 | get the \\$500 million? |\n| 21 | A
I loan from my family. |\n| 22 | Q
Did you borrow money from your family and |\n| 23 | give it to Ace Decade? |\n| 24 | A
Yes. |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I don't think that was -- |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
62 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | let's start over, because I don't think that was -- |\n| 2 | that was -- |\n| 3 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yeah, I thought |\n| 4 | that it was -- |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- that was the question, |\n| 6 | because it didn't involve Dawn State -- |\n| 7 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yes. |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- so I'm going to start |\n| 9 | over. |\n| 10 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
Where did you get the money to give to Ace |\n| 12 | Decade, the 500 million? |\n| 13 | MR. BALDIGA:
I don't think he said he did |\n| 14 | that.
I think he said his family did that, but you |\n| 15 | can ask that, but I -- |\n| 16 | THE WITNESS:
From my family. |\n| 17 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 18 | Q
Who specifically in your family gave you |\n| 19 | money that you then gave to Ace Decade? |\n| 20 | A
John Way (ph). |\n| 21 | Q
Who is John Way? |\n| 22 | A
A member from my family. |\n| 23 | Q
Is he a relative of yours? |\n| 24 | A
It's my older brother's cousin or -- |\n| 25 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Son-in-law. |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Son-in-law? Okay. Sorry. BY MS. CLAIBORN: Q On your Schedule A-B, you list a possible malpractice claim against Boise Schiller. Can you please explain what that is? A He was the one -- he was the one represented me in New York to have a lawsuit against UBS. He gave a lot of forced documents to the Court and without my permission. He also threatened my family. He also threaten myself after drinking. He brought a lot of loss to us, including providing any English/Chinese translated documents to me before present them to the -- to the lawyer, or to the judge. That's why I -- that's why we sue him. Q Have you hired an attorney to represent you in that malpractice action? A My son is in the process of dealing with that. Q Why is your son talking to lawyers about your malpractice claim? A Because I need to borrow money from him. Q Has a lawyer been selected? A Not yet. Q Mr. Kwok, do you own an interest in any\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
64 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | company aside from Ace Decade? |\n| 2 | A
No, but the -- I own the Bravo Luck, the |\n| 3 | apartment, only for a few months, some of the |\n| 4 | interest.
And because the apartment is a co-op, so |\n| 5 | they used my name to buy the apartment after I -- |\n| 6 | after we bought apartment, and then we returned the |\n| 7 | stock interest back. |\n| 8 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
I'm sorry.
He must |\n| 9 | have spoken for 30, 40 seconds.
Clearly said more |\n| 10 | than that.
Is there a more fulsome translation? |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Did I miss |\n| 12 | anything? |\n| 13 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Let me see if I can follow |\n| 14 | up. |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 16 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own, currently, an |\n| 17 | interest in Bravo Luck? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own an interest in any |\n| 20 | limited liability company? |\n| 21 | A
No. |\n| 22 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own an interest in any |\n| 23 | partnership? |\n| 24 | A
I used to own the plane company called the |\n| 25 | Orange or Shiny Time, but that was before and |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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65 |\n| 1 | doesn't exist anymore. |\n| 2 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you currently own an interest |\n| 3 | in any partnership? |\n| 4 | A
No. |\n| 5 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you currently own an interest |\n| 6 | in any joint venture? |\n| 7 | A
No. |\n| 8 | Q
Other than Ace Decade, do you own an |\n| 9 | interest in any other company right now? |\n| 10 | A
No.
I only owned the Orange and Shiny |\n| 11 | Time before, but not right now. |\n| 12 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a |\n| 13 | security interest in any of your litigation? |\n| 14 | A
I owe them money. |\n| 15 | Q
Have you granted to Golden Spring New |\n| 16 | York, any interest in any of your assets, anything |\n| 17 | that you own? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
So if you were to win a lawsuit against |\n| 20 | Golden Spring -- sorry.
Wrong name.
So if you were |\n| 21 | to win a lawsuit against UBS, would any of the money |\n| 22 | that you win have to be paid to Golden Spring? |\n| 23 | A
Yes. |\n| 24 | Q
And how much would that be? |\n| 25 | A
Before it was 2,200 1 million, or -- |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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66 |\n| 1 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
21 million. |\n| 2 | THE WITNESS:
21 million.
21 million and |\n| 3 | plus now.
Probably it's about 300 million.
30 |\n| 4 | million.
Or 30 million.
Yeah. |\n| 5 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 6 | Q
Is there a document that says that any |\n| 7 | litigation winnings you receive need to be paid to |\n| 8 | Golden Spring? |\n| 9 | A
Yes. |\n| 10 | Q
What is the name of that document? |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I'm going to |\n| 12 | ask him to repeat it. |\n| 13 | I didn't get it.
I just ask him to break |\n| 14 | it down, then I didn't hear what -- |\n| 15 | THE WITNESS:
I have a case in DC.
There |\n| 16 | is a attorney office representing me for political |\n| 17 | asylum and it was attacked by the cyber attack from |\n| 18 | the Chinese Communists, and so they -- the attorney |\n| 19 | office was closed, and they gave my personal |\n| 20 | information to the communist party, and then I sue |\n| 21 | them.
And that litigation fee, attorney fee, came |\n| 22 | from Golden Spring New York. |\n| 23 | I ask for the settlement for 50,000 -- \\$50 |\n| 24 | million.
If I won that money, I will give the money |\n| 25 | back to Golden Springs for the money they supported |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
67 |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | me for attorney fees. |\n| 2 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Mr. Kwok did not |\n| 3 | say settlement.
Mr. Kwok just say, for a claim, not |\n| 4 | a settlement. |\n| 5 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
You're asking |\n| 6 | for \\$50 million.
Yeah.
He ask for \\$50 million for |\n| 7 | that lawsuit, and if he win -- if he wins the money, |\n| 8 | then he will return the money back to the Golden |\n| 9 | Spring New York. |\n| 10 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
My question was, what was the name of the |\n| 12 | document under which you would be repaying Golden |\n| 13 | Spring for your litigation? |\n| 14 | A
The document is the document I -- |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 16 | that one? |\n| 17 | THE WITNESS:
The agreement is -- it's the |\n| 18 | agreement, I borrowed the money from Golden Spring |\n| 19 | New York to sue the attorney office. |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 21 | Q
And what is the name of the agreement? |\n| 22 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 23 | Q
Is it a promissory note? |\n| 24 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 25 | Q
Is it a contract? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
68 |\n| 1 | A | I don't remember clearly. |\n| 2 | Q | Who prepared the document? |\n| 3 | A | Attorney. |\n| 4 | Q | What was the name of the attorney who |\n| 5 | | prepared the document? |\n| 6 | A | Melissa. |\n| 7 | Q | What is Melissa's last name? |\n| 8 | A | I don't know. |\n| 9 | Q | Did Melissa the attorney represent you in |\n| 10 | | drafting that document? |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | And who represented Golden Spring in |\n| 13 | | drafting that document? |\n| 14 | A | I don't know. |\n| 15 | Q | Did Golden Spring have any attorney? |\n| 16 | A | Yes. |\n| 17 | Q | You just don't remember who it was? |\n| 18 | A | They have a lot of attorneys. |\n| 19 | Q | Is there more than one written agreement |\n| 20 | | under which you owe money to Golden Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A | Yes. |\n| 22 | Q | How many agreements are there? |\n| 23 | A | Kind of two or three, or three or four.
I |\n| 24 | | don't remember clearly. |\n| 25 | Q | And does someone keep track of the money |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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69 |\n| 1 | that you borrow from Golden Spring New York? |\n| 2 | A
My attorney will write it down.
We record |\n| 3 | it. |\n| 4 | Q
What's the name of that attorney? |\n| 5 | A
Aaron Mitchell. |\n| 6 | Q
Did you say Aaron Mitchell? |\n| 7 | A
Oh, yes. |\n| 8 | Q
And how does Aaron Mitchell keep track of |\n| 9 | the monies that you borrow from Golden Spring New |\n| 10 | York? |\n| 11 | A
In detail, I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q
Does anyone who is employed by Golden |\n| 13 | Spring New York keep track of the money that you |\n| 14 | borrow from Golden Spring New York? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Have you ever seen a document from |\n| 17 | Attorney Aaron Mitchell showing how much you owe to |\n| 18 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 19 | A
This is the thing I -- it's something |\n| 20 | between me and my attorney I shouldn't answer. |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
Can I -- I mean -- |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I don't think the question |\n| 23 | involves -- |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
You can -- |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- a privileged answer. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 71 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
70 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | MR. BALDIGA:
That's -- give me a second. |\n| 2 | You could answer that last question yes or no, so if |\n| 3 | you ask again, I think he will say yes or no, and |\n| 4 | then we can take it step by step. |\n| 5 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 6 | Q
Have you ever seen a document prepared by |\n| 7 | Attorney Mitchell that shows you how much money you |\n| 8 | have borrowed from Golden Spring? |\n| 9 | MR. BALDIGA:
Wait.
Wait, my instruction |\n| 10 | needs to be interpreted. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What? |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can you -- |\n| 13 | MR. BALDIGA:
You need to instruct -- |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Just please state it and |\n| 15 | he'll reinterpret. |\n| 16 | MR. BALDIGA:
Please, tell the witness |\n| 17 | what -- I am telling the witness he may answer yes |\n| 18 | or no only. |\n| 19 | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 20 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I have other questions, but |\n| 21 | given the hour of the day, I thought that we could |\n| 22 | take a short break and then reconvene with creditors |\n| 23 | being given the opportunity to ask questions. |\n| 24 | I suggest we reconvene at 1:15. |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Is that okay? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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71 |\n| 1 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
Thank you.
We'll |\n| 2 | reconvene at 1:15. | |\n| 3 | | (Recess.) |\n| 4 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
The recording has been |\n| 5 | reconvened. | We are back in session after a short |\n| 6 | | break and Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath. |\n| 7 | | And that this point, Mr. Wolman has some |\n| 8 | | questions for you, Mr. Kwok. |\n| 9 | | EXAMINATION BY MR. WOLMAN: |\n| 10 | Q | Good afternoon, Mr. Kwok. |\n| 11 | | On March 21st I was asking you some |\n| 12 | | questions about a prior deposition, specifically |\n| 13 | | about the times you had invoked your rights under |\n| 14 | | the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. |\n| 15 | | On April 1st, 2021, were you being |\n| 16 | | investigated for any crime? |\n| 17 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
April 21st? |\n| 18 | | MR. WOLMAN:
April 1st, 2021. |\n| 19 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 20 | | that question, sir? |\n| 21 | Q | Were you being investigated for any crime? |\n| 22 | A | From SET -- American SET and the |\n| 23 | | investigating GTV and they can communicate with our |\n| 24 | attorney. | |\n| 25 | Q | Are you referring to the Securities and |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 73 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
72 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Exchange Commission? |\n| 2 | A
Yes. |\n| 3 | Q
And what exactly were they investigating? |\n| 4 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection. |\n| 5 | I need to ask whether this would reveal |\n| 6 | privileged information. |\n| 7 | Would your answer to the last question be |\n| 8 | information from your attorneys? |\n| 9 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Can I just -- |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
She wants to |\n| 11 | help. |\n| 12 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Because he's not |\n| 13 | -- |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I think you should just try |\n| 15 | again. Mr. Baldiga, maybe you can just repeat |\n| 16 | yourself and Mr. Jack, you can try again. |\n| 17 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 18 | what you want to say? |\n| 19 | MR. BALDIGA:
Mr. Wolman asked you what |\n| 20 | you were being investigated for.
Is the information |\n| 21 | that you know, was that provided to you by your |\n| 22 | attorneys? |\n| 23 | THE WITNESS: Yes. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
And to answer the question |\n| 25 | would you have to divulge what you were told by your |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 74 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
73 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | attorneys? |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Have to be what? |\n| 3 | Divulged? |\n| 4 | MR. BALDIGA:
Would you have to say what |\n| 5 | you were told by your attorneys? |\n| 6 | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 7 | MR. BALDIGA:
Then I instruct the witness |\n| 8 | not to answer on the basis of the attorney/client |\n| 9 | privilege. |\n| 10 | MR. WOLMAN:
That is not attorney/client |\n| 11 | information. |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
Hold on.
Let it be |\n| 13 | interpreted. |\n| 14 | MR. WOLMAN:
Information learned from an |\n| 15 | attorney that is not specifically a communication |\n| 16 | for the purpose of giving advice or receiving |\n| 17 | information is not privileged information.
If your |\n| 18 | attorneys says the sky is blue, that is not a |\n| 19 | privileged communication. |\n| 20 | MR. BALDIGA:
His is arguing with me. |\n| 21 | There is not question to you. |\n| 22 | MR. WOLMAN:
Mr. Baldiga, will you |\n| 23 | continue to instruct your client to improperly |\n| 24 | invoke the attorney/client privilege? |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
I'll instruct on a question |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 75 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 by question basis. MR. WOLMAN: And this question, will you maintain the instruction? Mr. Kwok, are you refusing to answer my question? THE WITNESS: Yes. MR. WOLMAN: And on what basis are you refusing to answer my question? MR. BALDIGA: On the basis of instruction from counsel on account of attorney/client privilege. THE WITNESS: Because I can't answer the question because of the privilege between the attorney and me. BY MR. WOLMAN: Q Have you been formally charged by the Securities and Exchange Commission? A No. Q Has the Securities and Exchange Commission closed its investigation of you? MR. BALDIGA: I have to ask again, you can answer that yes or no, if you know. A No. Q Has the Securities and Exchange Commission brought any charges against GTV?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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75 |\n| 1 | A
I don't know. |\n| 2 | Q
Have you been in the past five years |\n| 3 | subject to an audit by the U.S. Internal Revenue |\n| 4 | Service? |\n| 5 | A
No. |\n| 6 | Q
In the last five years have you been |\n| 7 | subject to an audit by the New York State taxing |\n| 8 | authority? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | Q
When did you become a resident of |\n| 11 | Connecticut?
On what date? |\n| 12 | A
The beginning of March, 2020, roughly. |\n| 13 | Q
To be clear, you say you were a resident |\n| 14 | of Connecticut in March of 2020? |\n| 15 | A
Yes. |\n| 16 | Q
So how come in Mr. Cheng, my client's, |\n| 17 | lawsuit against you you signed a statement under |\n| 18 | oath indicating that you were a resident of the |\n| 19 | Sherry Netherlands Hotel? |\n| 20 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 21 | that, counsel? |\n| 22 | Q
If you were a resident of Connecticut in |\n| 23 | March of 2020, you signed a statement under oath in |\n| 24 | Mr. Cheng's lawsuit against you that you resided at |\n| 25 | the Sherry Netherlands Hotel. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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76 |\n| 1 | A | I don't 100 percent live in Connecticut, |\n| 2 | | but sometimes I live in New York also. |\n| 3 | Q | When did you start living in Connecticut |\n| 4 | | more than 50 percent of the time? |\n| 5 | A | Since March, 2020. |\n| 6 | Q | You had some assets you claim seized by |\n| 7 | China, correct? | |\n| 8 | A | It's not mine. It's from my family.
It's |\n| 9 | my family's. | |\n| 10 | Q | Have you ever had assets seized by China? |\n| 11 | A | You're talking about under my name? |\n| 12 | Q | Yes. |\n| 13 | A | No. |\n| 14 | Q | All right.
In 2010, what was your |\n| 15 | | personal net worth? |\n| 16 | A | No. |\n| 17 | Q | That wasn't a yes or no question. |\n| 18 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can I repeat |\n| 19 | | your question again? |\n| 20 | | MR. WOLMAN:
Yes. |\n| 21 | Q | In 2010 what was your personal net worth? |\n| 22 | A | I didn't have any property. |\n| 23 | Q | Have you ever had property in your name |\n| 24 | | over \\$1 million and by that I include where you |\n| 25 | | owned an interest in a company that interest, |\n\nof 134\n\n| 7 | 7 |\n|---|---|\n| | |\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 77 |\n|----|------------------|-----------------------------------------------------|----|\n| 1 | | therefore, contributes to your work? | |\n| 2 | A | Before 2000, yes. | |\n| 3 | Q | Okay.
What was your net worth in 1999? | |\n| 4 | A | I never calculate in detail. | |\n| 5 | Q | What would you estimate it as? | |\n| 6 | A | Roughly around 100 million. | |\n| 7 | Q | And what happened to that \\$100 million | |\n| 8 | worth of assets? | | |\n| 9 | A | Because in 2000 I got a Hong Kong passport | |\n| 10 | | and in China and they don't allow me to have any | |\n| 11 | property, asset. | | |\n| 12 | Q | Have you abandoned all claims to whatever | |\n| 13 | | assets you had in 1999? | |\n| 14 | A | Yes. | |\n| 15 | Q | Why have you abandoned your claims? | |\n| 16 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Abandoned what? | |\n| 17 | Q | Your claim to those assets? | |\n| 18 | A | Because I was not allowed to have any | |\n| 19 | assets in China. | | |\n| 20 | Q | If China changed its policy, would you | |\n| 21 | | have any right or ability to get those assets back? | |\n| 22 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
If you know, you | |\n| 23 | can answer. | | |\n| 24 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 25 | Q | What was your largest asset in 1999? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 79 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n| | | | | |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
78 | | | | |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|--|\n| 1 | A
There was the assets from a hotel, equity | | | | |\n| 2 | interest of a hotel in China. | | | | |\n| 3 | Q
And who holds that interest now? | | | | |\n| 4 | A
Chinese Community Party. | | | | |\n| 5 | Q
Is it held in the name of the Party? | | | | |\n| 6 | A
China only has one autocrat government, | | | | |\n| 7 | the party, and our family's assets were taken -- | | | | |\n| 8 | were seized by them. | | | | |\n| 9 | Q
How did your son become wealthy enough to | | | | |\n| 10 | fund Golden Spring and Lamp Capital? | | | | |\n| 11 | A
Because he started very early to do | | | | |\n| 12 | investment and also bring brand names to China. | | | | |\n| 13 | Q
Where did he get the money for his | | | | |\n| 14 | investment? | | | | |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. | | | | |\n| 16 | Q
Ms. Claiborn asked you about agreements | | | | |\n| 17 | with Golden Spring and you could not identify who | | | | |\n| 18 | the lawyer was for Golden Spring.
Do you remember | | | | |\n| 19 | that? | | | | |\n| 20 | A
True. | | | | |\n| 21 | Q
I'd like to try to refresh -- to ask you | | | | |\n| 22 | potentially to refresh your memory was it a lawyer | | | | |\n| 23 | named Daniel? | | | | |\n| 24 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He's asking | | | | |\n| 25 | Daniel? | | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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79 |\n| 1 | Q
Yes, Daniel Pedolsky. |\n| 2 | A
Yes, probably and he used to be Golden |\n| 3 | Spring attorney and my personal attorney. |\n| 4 | Q
Did you execute a waiver of conflict of |\n| 5 | interest with Mr. Pedolsky? |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 7 | that? |\n| 8 | Q
Did you execute a waiver of conflict of |\n| 9 | interest with Attorney Daniel Pedolsky? |\n| 10 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 11 | Q
You mentioned two or three -- or three or |\n| 12 | four agreements with Golden Spring. Can you identify |\n| 13 | each of those agreements? |\n| 14 | A
I'm not sure. |\n| 15 | Q
Can you describe the purpose of each of |\n| 16 | those agreements? |\n| 17 | A
That loan from Golden Spring is to have a |\n| 18 | settlement with Logan Cheng. |\n| 19 | Q
And did you take out a loan to pay the |\n| 20 | lawyers to sue Logan Cheng? |\n| 21 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 22 | Q
And what were the other agreements, other |\n| 23 | than with Mr. Cheng? |\n| 24 | A
From D.C. -- the attorney's office from |\n| 25 | D.C. collect (indiscernible)
I don't remember the |\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 name. MR. WOLMAN: All right. Thank you and this time I have to go but thank you. I'll try to dial in. MS. CLAIBORN: Thank you. Can I ask whoever is on the line if they could mute themselves, because they can hear you typing. All right. Who else would like to ask questions? Mr. Harbach. Go ahead, Mr. Harbach. MR. HARBACH: Thank you. For the record, I'm David Harbach with O'Melveny and Meyers and I represent PAACS. EXAMINATION BY MR. HARBACH: Q Mr. Kwok, I'd like to ask some clarifying questions based on questions that Ms. Claiborn asked you today. Earlier today she asked you if you owned any foreign currency and you said no. She also asked you if you owned any digital currency and you said no. My question is have you ever ordered or directed the purchase of either foreign currency or digital currency on behalf of any entity?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 82 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
81 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 2 | that? |\n| 3 | MR. HARBACH:
Sure. |\n| 4 | Q
My question is whether you have ordered or |\n| 5 | directed the purchase of any foreign currency or any |\n| 6 | digital currency on behalf of any entity? |\n| 7 | A
What you mean direct? |\n| 8 | Q
Have you directed anyone to purchase |\n| 9 | foreign currency or digital currency? |\n| 10 | A
No. |\n| 11 | Q
Ms. Claiborn asked you a couple of |\n| 12 | questions about access to credit cards and debit |\n| 13 | cards. And I want to make sure that we have your |\n| 14 | answer clear, because she asked you not whether you |\n| 15 | had any credit cards but whether you had any access |\n| 16 | to credit cards. I want to make sure that you |\n| 17 | understand the difference. |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: He's just asking |\n| 19 | why you want to represent Ms. Holley's asked |\n| 20 | questions. |\n| 21 | MR. HARBACH:
I'm just trying to remind |\n| 22 | you of a question she asked you earlier today, sir. |\n| 23 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't |\n| 24 | understand the question. |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Mr. Baldiga's right. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 83 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
82 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | There's not a question pending. |\n| 2 | Q
The question is do you understand the |\n| 3 | difference between having a credit card and having |\n| 4 | access to a credit card? |\n| 5 | A
I believe I don't have. |\n| 6 | Q
You don't understand the difference? |\n| 7 | A
I don't know much. |\n| 8 | Q
Okay.
Well, let me give you an example. |\n| 9 | Let's talk about the Maybach. |\n| 10 | I believe that you represented to us today |\n| 11 | that you have access to the Maybach for |\n| 12 | transportation.
Is that correct? |\n| 13 | A
Yes. |\n| 14 | Q
But I believe it's also your position that |\n| 15 | you do not own the Maybach.
Isn't that right? |\n| 16 | A
Yes. |\n| 17 | Q
In other words, your position is the |\n| 18 | Maybach is not yours, right? |\n| 19 | A
Yes. |\n| 20 | Q
Okay.
So I use that example to illustrate |\n| 21 | the example between owning something and having |\n| 22 | access to something.
Does that help you?
Do you |\n| 23 | understand the difference? |\n| 24 | A
Now I understand you. |\n| 25 | Q
Okay.
Thank you.
So returning to the |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 question about credit cards and debit cards. Do you have access to any credit cards or debit cards, whether or not they are yours? A I don't understand the difference what he means, access like if I use it myself or if I have somebody else use it. Q Well, let's take those one at a time. Let's begin with using it yourself. Has any member of your family ever provided you a credit card or a credit card number to use for yourself? A I never used. Q The other example you mentioned was perhaps a member of your family using a credit card on your behalf. Is that something that has happened? A What do you mean represent me to use? Q I'm asking about whether to your knowledge any member of your family has ever used a credit card or a debit card to purchase things for you? A My son, my daughter, my wife. They all have credit card to buy things for me. THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: The witness did not say that, use the credit card to buy things for me. The witness said that my son, my wife bought of 134\n\nFiore Reporting and Transcription Service, Inc.\n\nthings for me.\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 85 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
84 |\n|----|------------------|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, they used |\n| 2 | | their card and they both -- they all have it.
They |\n| 3 | | all have the cards.
That's what he said. |\n| 4 | | (Repeats interpretation) |\n| 5 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yes, I did it |\n| 6 | right. | |\n| 7 | | THE WITNESS:
And so my wife and my son |\n| 8 | | and my daughter have their own cards and also other |\n| 9 | | family members use their cards to buy things for me. |\n| 10 | Q | Is that ever at your direction? |\n| 11 | A | No. |\n| 12 | Q | Never. |\n| 13 | A | No. |\n| 14 | Q | Is it at your request? |\n| 15 | A | No. |\n| 16 | Q | Is Yan Ping Wang, the same as Yvette Wang? |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | Earlier Ms. Claiborn asked you about |\n| 19 | | Golden Spring Hong Kong. |\n| 20 | | You told her that your son owns it.
Do |\n| 21 | you recall that? | |\n| 22 | A | Yes. |\n| 23 | Q | My question for you is since when has your |\n| 24 | | son owned Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 25 | A | I don't know. |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 Q Has anyone else besides your son ever owned an interest in Golden Spring Hong Kong? A I don't remember. Q You also said that you didn't remember whether you were ever a corporate officer of Golden Spring Hong Kong? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Can you repeat that one? Q You also said that you did not remember whether you were ever a corpora officer of Golden Spring Hong Kong? Does that mean that it is possible that you were and you're just not certain? A I don't remember. Q Ms. Claiborn asked you in a few different ways about whether you know how Golden Spring New York is funded or makes money. Since when has Golden Spring been paying your personal living expenses? A 2015. Q So six or seven years approximately? A Since 2015 and that there was a person called Bruno Wu from Mainland China and called my family, my son, daughter and wife and so since then I start spending money coming from Golden Spring New York. Case 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23 Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 Page 86 of 134\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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86 |\n| 1 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't think |\n| 2 | the witness says some. |\n| 3 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What? |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't think |\n| 5 | the witness said some. |\n| 6 | THE WITNESS:
Not including the son that |\n| 7 | they caught, my wife and daughter and a lot of my |\n| 8 | family members, but not my son. |\n| 9 | Q
So approximately six or seven years that |\n| 10 | Golden Spring has been paying your personal |\n| 11 | expenses.
Is that right? |\n| 12 | A
Yes. |\n| 13 | Q
During those six or seven years did you |\n| 14 | never discuss with any of your family members where |\n| 15 | the money was coming from? |\n| 16 | A
Because a lot of my family members were |\n| 17 | caught by -- were arrested by your client, Bruno Wu, |\n| 18 | and so I have no communication. I cannot communicate |\n| 19 | with him. |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Not exactly. The |\n| 21 | partner of PAACS -- the partner who the counsel was |\n| 22 | represented, PAACS -- partner of PAACS -- |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't know. |\n| 24 | He didn't mention anything about PAACS. |\n| 25 | THE WITNESS:
So it's the other attorney |\n\nof 134\n\n| Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | |\n|-----------------------------|--|\n|-----------------------------|--|\n\n| 1 | representing the client, Bruno Wu, arrested a lot of |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | your family members.
Your client's past partner, |\n| 3 | one of the partners, (indiscernible)
Bruno Wu and |\n| 4 | arrested a lot of your family members so you can't |\n| 5 | communicate with them. |\n| 6 | Q
At any time since 2015 have you been in |\n| 7 | communication with your daughter, or your wife, or |\n| 8 | your son? |\n| 9 | A
Yes. |\n| 10 | Q
At any time that you've been in |\n| 11 | communication with any of those three individuals |\n| 12 | did you ever ask them about where Golden Spring's |\n| 13 | money was coming from? |\n| 14 | A
Yes, I asked. |\n| 15 | Q
And who did you ask? |\n| 16 | A
I asked all three of them. |\n| 17 | Q
And what did they say? |\n| 18 | A
They told me because I was in the position |\n| 19 | of being chased so don't ask our own financial |\n| 20 | information.
Don't ask me for anything and we will |\n| 21 | help you to -- we will help you as much as we can. |\n| 22 | Q
When was that? |\n| 23 | A
After 2017. |\n| 24 | Q
How long after 2017? |\n| 25 | A
I don't remember. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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88 |\n| 1 | Q
And when you had this conversation with |\n| 2 | your family were the three of them together or where |\n| 3 | these separate conversations? |\n| 4 | A
Separate. |\n| 5 | Q
And each of the three of them said more or |\n| 6 | less the same thing? |\n| 7 | A
Similar. |\n| 8 | Q
So I want to make sure I have this |\n| 9 | correct.
You asked each of them where Golden |\n| 10 | Springs money was coming from and each of them said |\n| 11 | to you don't ask me about that because -- finish the |\n| 12 | sentence for me. |\n| 13 | A
So you are making a story I don't |\n| 14 | understand. |\n| 15 | Q
I'm trying to ask you to help me |\n| 16 | understand.
I'm trying to understand the reason why |\n| 17 | your family members told you not to ask why your |\n| 18 | family members told you not to ask about where |\n| 19 | Golden Spring got the money. |\n| 20 | MR. BALDIGA:
Let him ask you a question. |\n| 21 | Q
Please tell me why each of your family |\n| 22 | members told you not to ask them about where Golden |\n| 23 | Spring money came from? |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
If you know. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
You're asking |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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89 |\n| 1 | to object the question? |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
I objected. |\n| 3 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, you |\n| 4 | objected. |\n| 5 | MR. BALDIGA:
I permit him to answer if he |\n| 6 | knows. |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 8 | THE WITNESS:
My daughter and wife were |\n| 9 | arrested by his partner and got released 2017 and |\n| 10 | released to New York.
They were tortured |\n| 11 | tremendously by communist party.
The person |\n| 12 | tortured them is this attorney's partner.
They all |\n| 13 | have their own attorneys.
They told me don't ask me |\n| 14 | or communicate with me about their own financial and |\n| 15 | personal information.
Anything you want to do it's |\n| 16 | better go through attorneys. |\n| 17 | This is the doctrine, the thing, my family |\n| 18 | members told them before they came to New York.
I |\n| 19 | just want to tell you it's the meaning, very similar |\n| 20 | meanings, but I can't tell you word by word. |\n| 21 | So I don't want this counsel make any |\n| 22 | stories about my daughter -- about my daughter's |\n| 23 | forgery, giving false testimony.
That kind of |\n| 24 | story. |\n| 25 | The last time when we were here with Ms. |\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | Holley and he was making false lies and saying I'm |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | using my Twitter account and saying that the judge |\n| 3 | in New York was communist party and I didn't even |\n| 4 | have a Twitter account. |\n| 5 | MR. HARBACH:
Just so the record's clear |\n| 6 | today is the first that I've uttered a word in |\n| 7 | connection with this litigation in court.
So I |\n| 8 | don't think you're talking about me, sir. |\n| 9 | THE WITNESS:
I was saying last time was |\n| 10 | from attorney in your office.
The prior attorney |\n| 11 | before you called Andy Morse (ph) and was kicked out |\n| 12 | by the judge because he was making false claims for |\n| 13 | five years and was kicked out by the judge.
So the |\n| 14 | law office was always making false claims. |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
Just answer his question |\n| 16 | because I can't know whether to object unless you're |\n| 17 | just trying to answer his question. |\n| 18 | THE WITNESS:
I didn't talk to my family, |\n| 19 | daughter and wife individually to say the same |\n| 20 | thing. If I say the same thing, same words, that |\n| 21 | will be making false story. |\n| 22 | MR. HARBACH:
I understand. |\n| 23 | THE WITNESS:
You cannot use your |\n| 24 | imagination and put it into my head.
This is why |\n| 25 | the New York South District and the judge was |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 92 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 (indiscernible) by them and they give me the wrong sentencing. UNIDENTIFIED: Can you say that last -- THE WITNESS: Because of their false claims, so that's why the judge from the south district of New York, the judge, gave me the wrong sentencing. THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: And also the interpreter did not interpret fully counsel's instruction to the witness previously about his objection. MS. CLAIBORN: If you want to repeat it, go ahead. MR. BALDIGA: I think you just have to listen to these questions and answer just these questions. MR. HARBACH: Sorry. Counsel will move to a different topic. BY MR. HARBACH: Q Mr. Kwok, Ms. Claiborn asked you today about a \\$21 million debt that you owe to Golden Spring. She asked you how much of that 21 million was legal fees and your answer was I think most of it. I'd like to know what you meant by most of it.\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 93 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
92 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Did you mean \\$11 million or do you mean close to \\$21 |\n| 2 | million. |\n| 3 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q
Do you still believe that most of it was |\n| 5 | for legal fees? |\n| 6 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 7 | Q
You also mentioned the Logan Cheng |\n| 8 | settlement and that there was money borrowed from |\n| 9 | Golden Spring in connection with that. |\n| 10 | A
Yes. |\n| 11 | Q
How much money was that loan for? |\n| 12 | A
I don't remember exactly.
Probably like |\n| 13 | 200.
Two -- \\$300,000. |\n| 14 | Q
What were the terms of that loan from |\n| 15 | Golden Spring? |\n| 16 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 17 | Q
When Ms. Claiborn asked you if you had |\n| 18 | ever been to Golden Spring's offices in New York, |\n| 19 | you said yes. |\n| 20 | What's the address of those offices? |\n| 21 | A
Yes. |\n| 22 | Q
What is the address of those offices? |\n| 23 | A
64th Street, 162. |\n| 24 | Q
You also mentioned that the last time you |\n| 25 | were there was yesterday and that the reason you |\n\nof 134\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 93 |\n|----|-----------------|---------------------------------------------------|----|\n| 1 | | went there was to prepare for today's meeting. | |\n| 2 | | Who did you meet with there? | |\n| 3 | A | My attorney. | |\n| 4 | Q | Did you meet with anyone else besides your | |\n| 5 | | attorney to prepare for today's meeting while you | |\n| 6 | | were at the office? | |\n| 7 | A | I don't know what you mean, the other | |\n| 8 | people. | | |\n| 9 | Q | Well, did you meet with anyone who works | |\n| 10 | | for Golden Spring? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes, I met Yvonne Wang. | |\n| 12 | Q | And this was yesterday? | |\n| 13 | A | Yes, I met her yesterday. | |\n| 14 | Q | Did you ask some questions of her | |\n| 15 | yesterday? | | |\n| 16 | A | No. | |\n| 17 | Q | And tell me about your conversation with | |\n| 18 | Ms. Wang? | | |\n| 19 | A | What do you mean? | |\n| 20 | Q | Well, I'd like to know what you talked | |\n| 21 | about with her. | | |\n| 22 | A | I ask her to arrange the food to eat and | |\n| 23 | the coffee. | | |\n| 24 | Q | Is that all? | |\n| 25 | A | And also we talked about how to abolish | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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94 |\n| 1 | communist party. | |\n| 2 | Q | I want to make sure I get this right. I |\n| 3 | think you said -- | |\n| 4 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me. Can I hear the |\n| 5 | last thing again. | |\n| 6 | | THE WITNESS:
We talk about how to abolish |\n| 7 | communist party. | |\n| 8 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 9 | Q | Ms. Wang is an officer of Golden Spring, |\n| 10 | correct? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | And you directed her to bring coffee, |\n| 13 | right? | |\n| 14 | A | No, I didn't direct her. I'm just hoping |\n| 15 | | her to bring some coffee. |\n| 16 | Q | You were hoping or helping? |\n| 17 | A | Help. |\n| 18 | Q | You were helping.
Because my question to |\n| 19 | | you was what you talked about with Ms. Wang.
And I |\n| 20 | | thought you said you asked her to bring some coffee |\n| 21 | | or maybe even told her to bring some coffee. |\n| 22 | A | No, your attorney office -- you attorney |\n| 23 | | office making and imagining things again. |\n| 24 | Q | I'll ask the question again. |\n| 25 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Please ask a question. Don't |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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95 |\n| 1 | put words in his mouth. |\n| 2 | Q
What did you discuss with Ms. Wang |\n| 3 | yesterday? |\n| 4 | A
Do you want me to talk about in detail? I |\n| 5 | can talk about this for hours. |\n| 6 | Q
Well, no, not if the detail concerns how |\n| 7 | to overthrow the Chinese Communist Party. So I'll be |\n| 8 | more precise. |\n| 9 | A
So you don't want us to abolish Chinese |\n| 10 | Community Party.
Our job is to abolish Chinese |\n| 11 | Communist Party. |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
Just answer the question. |\n| 13 | THE WITNESS:
You don't have a question. |\n| 14 | You're just directing something. |\n| 15 | Q
Sometimes I speak in segments to allow the |\n| 16 | interpreter to translate. |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
I think it would be helpful |\n| 18 | if you just ask question and then the witness -- |\n| 19 | I'll instruct him to answer your questions.
That |\n| 20 | would be helpful. |\n| 21 | Q
Did you discuss with Yvette [sic] |\n| 22 | yesterday anything related to preparing for the |\n| 23 | meeting today? |\n| 24 | A
Yes. |\n| 25 | Q
What did you discuss? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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96 |\n| 1 | A | I ask her to bring those documents here. |\n| 2 | Q | Anything else? |\n| 3 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q | When was Lamp Capital created? |\n| 5 | A | I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q | Why was Lamp Capital created? |\n| 7 | A | I don't know. |\n| 8 | Q | Who created Lamp Capital? |\n| 9 | A | My son. |\n| 10 | Q | How do you know that? |\n| 11 | A | Because I borrow money from my son to pay |\n| 12 | attorney fee. | |\n| 13 | Q | The question is how do you know that your |\n| 14 | | son created Lamp Capital? |\n| 15 | A | Because my son said it. |\n| 16 | Q | He told you himself. |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | Did he ask for any advice from you about |\n| 19 | | whether to create Lamp Capital? |\n| 20 | A | No. |\n| 21 | Q | Did he ask you your opinion on whether he |\n| 22 | | should create Lamp Capital? |\n| 23 | A | No. |\n| 24 | Q | Did he tell you why he was creating Lamp |\n| 25 | Capital? | |\n\n| | Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 98 |\n|--|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n|--|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|---------|\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\nof 134\n\n| 1 | A
No. |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | Q
When you were talking about your |\n| 3 | malpractice claim against Boise Schiller, you |\n| 4 | mentioned someone you kept referring to as he. I'd |\n| 5 | like to know who that person is? |\n| 6 | A
I don't know what you mean. |\n| 7 | Q
Yes, that was a bad question. I apologize. |\n| 8 | You stated that there was someone who gave |\n| 9 | false documents to the court without your |\n| 10 | permission.
That this person threatened your |\n| 11 | family, that this person threatened you after |\n| 12 | drinking and that this person brought lots of loss |\n| 13 | to you and your family, including not providing |\n| 14 | translated documents before presenting them to the |\n| 15 | judge. |\n| 16 | My question is who is that person? |\n| 17 | A
Schiller.
The Attorney Schiller. |\n| 18 | Q
So Mr. Schiller of the Boise Schiller law |\n| 19 | firm.
Have I got that right? |\n| 20 | A
Yes. |\n| 21 | Q
Thank you. Do you have an understanding of |\n| 22 | what business Lamp Capital is engaged in, if any? |\n| 23 | A
No. |\n| 24 | Q
Different subject.
You said several times |\n| 25 | today in connection with your answers that the |\n\nof 134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | people behind me have done certain things. |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | Who are you talking about? |\n| 3 | A
One person behind me, there is a boss |\n| 4 | called Bruno Wu.
He paid the case that -- the rape |\n| 5 | case from (indiscernible)
rape case.
Also there is |\n| 6 | a creditor here and that also was paid by Bruno Wu. |\n| 7 | That attorney fee was paid by Bruno Wu.
And Bruno |\n| 8 | Wu is also his partner and he invested \\$800 million. |\n| 9 | Bruno Wu's partner is also (indiscernible)
previous |\n| 10 | officer and they were investigating and they |\n| 11 | combined a partner with them to investigate my case. |\n| 12 | So April 18, 2017, so this (indiscernible) |\n| 13 | start suing me, bring the lawsuit.
Within this 24 |\n| 14 | hours Bruno Wu is sending me the red note and they |\n| 15 | start bringing the lawsuit. |\n| 16 | MR. HARBACH:
Can I stop -- |\n| 17 | THE WITNESS: The Chinese Communist Party |\n| 18 | stopped the interview, the VOA interview with me. |\n| 19 | They happened at the same time. |\n| 20 | MR. HARBACH:
Or I can let him go. |\n| 21 | THE WITNESS:
All the documents made by |\n| 22 | this attorney firm were all false.
They provide a |\n| 23 | false document to the South District of New York |\n| 24 | court.
They even false claim on my daughter's |\n| 25 | yacht.
The boat is mine.
They sought the judge |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | from the South District Court and I file the |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | bankrupt -- personal bankruptcy case twice and the |\n| 3 | day -- they (indiscernible)
twice including Ms. |\n| 4 | Holley.
And Ms. Holley was present. |\n| 5 | The first time when Ms. Holley was present |\n| 6 | in the court and they false testified saying -- and |\n| 7 | they said my daughter was giving false testimony for |\n| 8 | the Sherry bankruptcy case because my daughter never |\n| 9 | participated in that case. |\n| 10 | And Ms. Holley was there, was present the |\n| 11 | second co date and Ms. Holley was there also.
The |\n| 12 | attorney from the firm was telling the judge and |\n| 13 | they said that I used the Twitter account to -- and |\n| 14 | they said on the Twitter and I was saying on the |\n| 15 | Twitter the south district judge was communist party |\n| 16 | member. |\n| 17 | You can see here all the people behind me |\n| 18 | and one is Bruno Wu and one person paid in many |\n| 19 | cases -- |\n| 20 | MR. HARBACH:
I'd like to ask another |\n| 21 | question. |\n| 22 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 23 | Q
Are you aware one way or the other whether |\n| 24 | your bankruptcy counsel, the Brown Rudnick law firm, |\n| 25 | has ever previously represented Bruno Wu? |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
100 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can I take a |\n| 2 | little break?
I just can't concentrate as much. |\n| 3 | Just too much.
Can I take a break? |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can I ask you to ask that |\n| 5 | question and then we'll take a break? |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yes.
Can you |\n| 7 | repeat that question? |\n| 8 | MR. HARBACH:
I'd be happy to. |\n| 9 | Q
Are you aware one way or the other of |\n| 10 | whether your bankruptcy counsel, the Brown Rudnick |\n| 11 | law firm, previously represented Bruno Wu? |\n| 12 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Represent |\n| 13 | somebody else you said? |\n| 14 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes.
Bruno Wu. |\n| 15 | A
No. |\n| 16 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to take a short |\n| 17 | break. We're going to be back here at 2:45. |\n| 18 | (Break) |\n| 19 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
We are back on |\n| 20 | the record after a short break. |\n| 21 | Mr. Harbach, the floor is yours. |\n| 22 | MR. HARBACH:
Thank you. |\n| 23 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 24 | Q
Ms. Kwok, among the documents in front of |\n| 25 | you, document 78 filed in this case. |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
101 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Which document? |\n| 2 | This one? |\n| 3 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. My apologies. Counsel |\n| 4 | advises me that your copies are not stamped. |\n| 5 | Q
I'm talking about your official from 106. |\n| 6 | So my question for you starts on page 9, which |\n| 7 | contains a heading that says Schedule D, creditors |\n| 8 | who have claimed (indiscernible)
by the property. |\n| 9 | Are you with me? |\n| 10 | You checked the box yes.
And were |\n| 11 | directed to Schedule D, so that's where I would like |\n| 12 | you to flip to, please.
And it's at page 18. |\n| 13 | MR. BALDIGA:
What's the title?
He can |\n| 14 | maybe find it better with the title. |\n| 15 | MR. HARBACH:
Okay. It's the little chart |\n| 16 | that is Schedule D, which is a list of creditors |\n| 17 | with secured claims. |\n| 18 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you'll see that there are five |\n| 20 | separate entries for Golden Spring New York Limited. |\n| 21 | The data in each column is identical for all five |\n| 22 | rows. |\n| 23 | So my question is why are there five |\n| 24 | identical entries on this schedule? |\n| 25 | The question is why are there five |\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 identical entries on this schedule? A I don't know what that means five -- Q Well, each row is exactly the same. And I'm just asking why there are five rows with the same information? A I don't know. Q Among that documents that you filed were some specific notes and one of those notes discusses the residence on Taconic Road. MR. HARBACH: And for counsel I'm at document 77, page 4. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Which page? MR. HARBACH: Page 4. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: 84? MR. HARBACH: No, Page 4. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Oh, page 4. Okay. BY MR. HARBACH: Q My question really isn't so much about the exact test as it is the substance. So first question, is it true that all expenses related to the Taconic Road House are paid directly by family and family controlled enterprises? A Yes. Q Okay. Which family members?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
of 134 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 104 |\n|---------------|---------------|---------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 103 |\n| 1 | A | | My wife, sometimes by my son. | |\n| 2 | Q | | Which family controlled enterprises? | |\n| 3 | A | Which country -- my wife. | | |\n| 4 | Q | | Your wife's not an enterprise. | I'm trying |\n| 5 | | | to ask which family controlled enterprises pay the | |\n| 6 | | expenses for the Taconic House? | | |\n| 7 | A | Greenwich LLC. | | |\n| 8 | Q | Okay. | Incidentally, how do you know that | |\n| 9 | | | your wife and sometimes you son pay these expenses? | |\n| 10 | A | Because I live there. | | |\n| 11 | Q | | Do you observe them pay the expenses? | |\n| 12 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 13 | Q | | Is that ever at your request? | |\n| 14 | A | | I don't remember I request anything. | |\n| 15 | Q | | Does Greenwich Land LLC -- yes Greenwich | |\n| 16 | | | Land LLC own any other real estate besides 373 | |\n| 17 | Taconic Road? | | | |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 19 | Q | | Do you know anything about the property | |\n| 20 | | | located at 33 Ferncliff in Cos Cob, Connecticut? | |\n| 21 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | Can you repeat | |\n| 22 | that? | | | |\n| 23 | | MR. HARBACH: | Yes. | |\n| 24 | Q | | 33 Ferncliff in Cos Cob, Connecticut. | |\n| 25 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | 31, right? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12
Page 105
of 134 |\n|---------------|--------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
104 |\n| 1 | | MR. HARBACH:
No, 33. |\n| 2 | A | Yes, now I remember it. It's also owned by |\n| 3 | my wife's company. | |\n| 4 | Q | That being Greenwich Land? |\n| 5 | A | Maybe. |\n| 6 | Q | Do you know? |\n| 7 | A | I'm not sure. |\n| 8 | Q | Have you ever been to 33 Ferncliff? |\n| 9 | A | Yes. |\n| 10 | Q | How recently? |\n| 11 | A | No.
Not recently. |\n| 12 | Q | Do you know when Greenwich Land purchased |\n| 13 | 33 Ferncliff? | |\n| 14 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 15 | Q | Do you know approximately how much money |\n| 16 | it cost? | |\n| 17 | A | Probably more that \\$1 million. |\n| 18 | Q | Does \\$1.37 million sound about right? |\n| 19 | A | I'm not sure. |\n| 20 | Q | And does the approximate purchase date of |\n| 21 | | September, 2019 sound about right to you? |\n| 22 | A | Not sure. |\n| 23 | Q | Turning back to 373 Taconic for a moment. |\n| 24 | | How much was that property purchased for? |\n| 25 | A | Probably 400 to 500,000. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12
Page 106
of 134 |\n|---------------|--------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
105 |\n| 1 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No, no, no. |\n| 2 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
4 to 5 million. |\n| 3 | I'm sorry. | |\n| 4 | Q | Approximate time of purchase of 373 |\n| 5 | | Taconic, if you know? |\n| 6 | A | I don't know. |\n| 7 | Q | Have you ever resided at 33 Ferncliff? |\n| 8 | A | No. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you know whether anyone currently lives |\n| 10 | there? | |\n| 11 | A | Before there is another comrade maybe, you |\n| 12 | | know, for disjoined Chinese Communist Party and he |\n| 13 | was to live there. | |\n| 14 | Q | How long ago? |\n| 15 | A | Probably one to two years ago. |\n| 16 | Q | DO you remember that person's name? |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | What is it? |\n| 19 | A | Wong Din Gong (ph). |\n| 20 | Q | Does anyone currently live there, if you |\n| 21 | know? | |\n| 22 | A | I don't know. |\n| 23 | Q | Talking about 373 Taconic, where did the |\n| 24 | | money come from to purchase that property? |\n| 25 | A | I don't know. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12
Page 107
of 134 |\n|---------------|--------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
106 |\n| 1 | Q | Do you know whether the house was |\n| 2 | | purchased with cash or financing? |\n| 3 | A | I don't know. |\n| 4 | Q | Same questions for 33 Ferncliff.
Do you |\n| 5 | | know where the money came from to purchase that |\n| 6 | house? | |\n| 7 | A | I heard it was purchased by cash. |\n| 8 | Q | From whom -- sorry. From whom did you hear |\n| 9 | that? | |\n| 10 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 11 | Q | Do you know where that money came from? |\n| 12 | A | I don't know. |\n| 13 | Q | Do you know what Saraca Media Group is? |\n| 14 | A | Saraca? |\n| 15 | Q | Saraca. |\n| 16 | A | Saraca Media Group.
I do. |\n| 17 | Q | What is Sirraca Media Group? |\n| 18 | A | Just Saraca.
It's a company. |\n| 19 | Q | What kind of company? |\n| 20 | A | I'm not sure. |\n| 21 | Q | Have you ever had any relationship with |\n| 22 | Saraca personally? | |\n| 23 | A | No. |\n| 24 | Q | Do you know anything about the type of |\n| 25 | | business that Saraca conducts? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12
Page 108
of 134 |\n|---------------|-----------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
107 |\n| 1 | A | I remember they are related to GTV Media |\n| 2 | | platform, or they invested on the GTV Media |\n| 3 | platform. | |\n| 4 | Q | How do you know that? |\n| 5 | A | Because I was their consultant, who owned |\n| 6 | the consultant. | And also I was the GTV host.
And |\n| 7 | | also this is one of the input and platform for |\n| 8 | | disjoined communist party. |\n| 9 | Q | When you said you were a consultant a |\n| 10 | | moment ago was that for Saraca or for GTV? |\n| 11 | A | GTV. |\n| 12 | Q | Has Saraca ever been -- ever had the 162 |\n| 13 | | East 64th Street address associated with it? |\n| 14 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Which address? |\n| 15 | | Can you repeat that one. |\n| 16 | Q | Yes.
162 East 64th Street.
The question |\n| 17 | | is whether Saraca has ever been associated with that |\n| 18 | address? | |\n| 19 | A | I don't know. |\n| 20 | Q | That is the family office address, |\n| 21 | correct? | |\n| 22 | A | It's one of them. |\n| 23 | Q | Where are the other ones? |\n| 24 | A | I don't know. |\n| 25 | Q | Are there any others in New York City? |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
108 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | A
I just want to clarify.
Golden Spring is |\n| 2 | one of the companies in this building, 162. |\n| 3 | Q
Understood and thank you. |\n| 4 | We've referred to the family office during |\n| 5 | your questioning and I just want to be clear.
When |\n| 6 | we talk about the family office are we referring to |\n| 7 | that address on East 64th Street? |\n| 8 | A
Yes. |\n| 9 | Q
Has GTV ever been associated with the |\n| 10 | family office address? |\n| 11 | A
I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q
Who owns Saraca? |\n| 13 | A
My son. |\n| 14 | Q
Since when? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Does Saraca currently exist? |\n| 17 | A
I don't know. |\n| 18 | Q
Do you have any idea how many -- do you |\n| 19 | know anything about the value of Saraca's assets? |\n| 20 | A
I don't know. |\n| 21 | Q
Do you know anything about payments Saraca |\n| 22 | has made to GTV? |\n| 23 | A
No, I don't know. |\n| 24 | Q
Has your wife ever told you about any |\n| 25 | multi-million dollar payments from Saraca to |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 110 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|----------|\n| | | | | |\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 109 |\n|----|-----------------|------------------------------------------------------|-----|\n| 1 | Greenwich Land? | | |\n| 2 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 3 | Q | You don't know whether he's ever told you | |\n| 4 | | or you don't know about the payments? | |\n| 5 | A | She never told me and I don't even know | |\n| 6 | how much. | | |\n| 7 | Q | Do you know a company called Ziba Limited, | |\n| 8 | Z-I-B-A? | | |\n| 9 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Ziba, Z-I-B-A? | |\n| 10 | | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 12 | Q | I'm sorry if I've already asked this. | |\n| 13 | | What is the relationship, if any, between Saraca and | |\n| 14 | GTV? | | |\n| 15 | A | Saraca is the investor for GTV. | |\n| 16 | Q | Do you know how much money Saraca invested | |\n| 17 | in GTV? | | |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 19 | Q | When was GTV founded? | |\n| 20 | A | 2020.
Maybe 2019.
Not very sure. | |\n| 21 | Q | Do you know the names of any of the | |\n| 22 | | officers or directors of Saraca? | |\n| 23 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 24 | Q | Do you know whether Yvette Wang is an | |\n| 25 | | officer or director of Saraca? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12
Page 111
of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
110 |\n| 1 | A | I don't know. |\n| 2 | Q | Do you know someone called Hong Chung |\n| 3 | Wang? | |\n| 4 | A | Yes. |\n| 5 | Q | Who is that? |\n| 6 | A | He's my partner and also comrade for |\n| 7 | | disjoined Communist Party. |\n| 8 | Q | Is he a friend of yours? |\n| 9 | A | Friend, comrade and a partner. |\n| 10 | Q | What do you mean by partner? |\n| 11 | A | Because we had a business corporation. |\n| 12 | Q | Tell me about that. |\n| 13 | A | Well, I don't remember the name of that |\n| 14 | company. | It's a company for investigating Communist |\n| 15 | | Party in USA doing money laundering and committing |\n| 16 | crimes. | |\n| 17 | Q | Was it a for profit company? |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q | You don't know? |\n| 20 | A | I don't know. |\n| 21 | Q | What was the name of the company? |\n| 22 | A | I don't remember when getting to English. |\n| 23 | | I don't remember the name. |\n| 24 | Q | Approximately what time frame where you |\n| 25 | | partners with Hong Chung Wang in this company? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12
Page 112
of 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
111 |\n| 1 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 2 | Q | Within the last three years? |\n| 3 | A | It must be more than three years ago. |\n| 4 | Q | More than ten years? |\n| 5 | A | No. |\n| 6 | Q | Did Hong Chung Wang ever have any |\n| 7 | | connection to Saraca? |\n| 8 | A | I don't know. |\n| 9 | Q | Was he ever an officer or director of |\n| 10 | Saraca? | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q | What does the G in GTV stand for? |\n| 13 | A | God.
The Goal, like in -- G-O-A-L. |\n| 14 | Q | The English word \"goal\"? |\n| 15 | A | Yea.
Goal or God. |\n| 16 | Q | Okay.
How long have you known Hong Chong |\n| 17 | Wang? | |\n| 18 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 19 | Q | More than ten years? |\n| 20 | A | Roughly. |\n| 21 | Q | And do you still consider him a friend |\n| 22 | today? | |\n| 23 | A | Yes. |\n| 24 | | MR. HARBACH:
Just a moment, please. |\n| 25 | Q | There's been many questions today about |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
112 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Golden Spring funding your living expenses. |\n| 2 | Is it correct that as far as your living |\n| 3 | expenses are concerned that none of that is expected |\n| 4 | to be repaid? |\n| 5 | A
Yes, true. |\n| 6 | Q
And so those monies are not the subject of |\n| 7 | any formal agreement, correct? |\n| 8 | A
No. |\n| 9 | Q
And those monies essentially then are a |\n| 10 | gift to you, correct? |\n| 11 | A
Yes. |\n| 12 | Q
What's the Rule of Law Foundation? |\n| 13 | A
What does that mean? |\n| 14 | Q
The question is what is it? |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
The Rule of Law |\n| 16 | Foundation? |\n| 17 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes, sir. |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 19 | it.
Can you ask it another way? |\n| 20 | Q
There's an entity called -- |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh. |\n| 22 | Q
-- the Rule of Law Foundation. |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 24 | MR. HARBACH:
I'll hopefully save some |\n| 25 | time by just asking this question instead. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
Filed 10/26/23
Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12
Page 114
of 134 |\n|---------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
113 |\n| 1 | Q
Are you familiar with the Rule of Law |\n| 2 | Foundation? |\n| 3 | A
Yes. |\n| 4 | Q
Were you involved in its establishment? |\n| 5 | A
Yes. |\n| 6 | Q
Did you contribute any money to it when it |\n| 7 | was formed? |\n| 8 | A
Not myself. |\n| 9 | Q
Did you direct any entity to contribute to |\n| 10 | the Rule of Law Foundation? |\n| 11 | A
Suggestion in a direct and suggesting any |\n| 12 | difference -- |\n| 13 | Q
If there was a suggestion, please tell me |\n| 14 | it was a suggestion. |\n| 15 | A
I didn't direct anybody or order anybody. |\n| 16 | I just always suggest people to make donations for |\n| 17 | the Foundation. |\n| 18 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
As an |\n| 19 | interpreter, I think that if the witness is asking |\n| 20 | the interpreter questions, the interpreter should |\n| 21 | interpret the question asked by the witness instead |\n| 22 | of answer that question. |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I can answer |\n| 24 | anything. |\n| 25 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
The witness said |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
114 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | are you talking about the (indiscernible)
-- |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
That's why I |\n| 3 | relayed the questions to the attorney. |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
You answer him |\n| 5 | yes, and then you say that. |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, for God's |\n| 7 | sake.
I didn't say -- did I miss anything? |\n| 8 | (Interpretation.) |\n| 9 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
No |\n| 10 | question.
He said no question was not answered. |\n| 11 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 12 | Q
Did you ever suggested to any of your |\n| 13 | family members that they donate to the Rule of Law |\n| 14 | Foundation? |\n| 15 | A
Yes, I did suggest. |\n| 16 | Q
Did any of your family members or the |\n| 17 | family controlled enterprises contribute money to |\n| 18 | the Rule of Law Foundation? |\n| 19 | A
Yes. |\n| 20 | Q
How much money? |\n| 21 | A
For cash there is one -- over \\$1 million. |\n| 22 | From Hong Kong, Japan and Mainland -- in |\n| 23 | China and all combined it should be more than 30 |\n| 24 | million. |\n| 25 | Q
And just focusing for the moment on |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
115 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | contributions from your family at your suggestion. |\n| 2 | Approximately, how much money is that? |\n| 3 | A
I don't know the details.
Because of |\n| 4 | security reasons they don't want me to know. |\n| 5 | Q
Did you say a moment ago that your family |\n| 6 | contributed over a million dollars? |\n| 7 | A
One million cash is in New York here. |\n| 8 | Q
When was that? |\n| 9 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 10 | Q
Is the reason -- well, let me ask it this |\n| 11 | way.
Did you suggest an amount to your family |\n| 12 | members that they should contribute to the Rule of |\n| 13 | Law Foundation? |\n| 14 | A
I want them to donate the more the better. |\n| 15 | Q
Is that what you told them? |\n| 16 | A
Yes. |\n| 17 | Q
Do you know whether the Rule of Law |\n| 18 | Foundation is associated with the family office |\n| 19 | address on 64th Street? |\n| 20 | A
Yes. |\n| 21 | Q
Did you ever make a \\$100 million donation |\n| 22 | to the Rule of Law Foundation in November of 2018? |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 24 | that again? |\n| 25 | Q
Did you ever make a \\$100 million donation |\n\nof 134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 to the Rule of Law Foundation in November, 2018? A No. In the live stream like I want -- tried to collect the funds, in the live stream show. Q Did you ever -- MR. BALDIGA: Wait. Was that his whole answer? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Yeah. Something wrong? THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: Not quite exactly what the witness said. (Indiscernible) broadcasting is okay. Live stream is okay. But collect money -- THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Asking for donation, right? (Interpretation) THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: Raise -- THE WITNESS: Raising money, raise donations. Yeah, in the live stream broadcast thing, or whatever, you know, asking for donations to -- you know, to raise funds, to raise money. Q Did you ever promise to donate \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Fund? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: 10 billion you said? MR. HARBACH: No, sir. 1 billion.\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
117 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, one |\n| 2 | billion. |\n| 3 | A
I don't remember. I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q
Do you mean that it's possible that you |\n| 5 | made that promise? |\n| 6 | A
So we could reach that goal if we combine |\n| 7 | the organizations all over the world. |\n| 8 | Q
Understand.
And it's a simple question. I |\n| 9 | just don't know the answer. |\n| 10 | Did you yourself ever promise to donate \\$1 |\n| 11 | billion to the Rule of Law fund? |\n| 12 | A
In the past five years I did the live |\n| 13 | stream over 5,000 times.
Some of the live stream |\n| 14 | could have reached four or five hours.
It's hard |\n| 15 | for me to remember every sentence I said. |\n| 16 | Q
Well, I understand that, but I'm only |\n| 17 | asking about one issue.
And it is whether you ever |\n| 18 | promised publicly, or privately or anyhow to donate |\n| 19 | \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Fund? |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
He did not say |\n| 21 | invest. |\n| 22 | MR. HARBACH:
Donate |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, donate. |\n| 24 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 25 | Q
I'll ask this one one more time. |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n| 1 | Are you saying that it is possible that |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | you made such a promise.
You just can't be sure? |\n| 3 | A
In front of Ms. Holley I wouldn't say |\n| 4 | anything is possible but this is a very serious |\n| 5 | issue.
Now they start the scheme again. |\n| 6 | Q
Well, this isn't what did you have for |\n| 7 | breakfast three days ago.
This is did you promise |\n| 8 | to donate \\$1 billion and if the answer is you don't |\n| 9 | know, that's okay. |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
I think that's what the |\n| 11 | answer has been. |\n| 12 | MR. HARBACH:
No, the answer has been I |\n| 13 | don't remember. |\n| 14 | MR. BALDIGA:
Don't remember. |\n| 15 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes, sir. That's a little |\n| 16 | different. |\n| 17 | Q
So the answer might be no, but you're not |\n| 18 | saying no.
You're saying you don't remember. |\n| 19 | A
I said it three times, I don't remember. |\n| 20 | MR. BALDIGA:
There's no question -- |\n| 21 | A
Because in the past five years |\n| 22 | (indiscernible)
always making these kind of answers |\n| 23 | for me so that's why the judge from the South |\n| 24 | District were fooled by you and you started again -- |\n| 25 | Q
I'll move on. |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 of 134\n\n A In the South District court I only met judge 20 seconds. I didn't say one sentence within this five years and I was fined a total about \\$300 million because that's what they did. MR. BALDIGA: All right. Let's stop it. Let's wait for a question and we'll answer the question. MR. HARBACH: Bill, I appreciate your patience. I'll move on. MR. BALDIGA: Translate what I said, please. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Can you repeat that? Everybody's saying at the time. MR. BALDIGA: Ask a question and he'll answer a question. Q Have you made any donations to the Rule of Law Foundation in the last two years? A Myself, right? Q Yes, sir. A No. Q Have you suggested to any of your family that they make donations to the Rule of Law Foundation within the last two years? A I don't remember. Q Would you ever have made a promise to\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
120 |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | donate \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Foundation if |\n| 2 | you did not actually have that money? |\n| 3 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection to form. |\n| 4 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 5 | it.
Can you repeat one more time. |\n| 6 | Q
Would you have ever made a promise to |\n| 7 | donate \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Foundation if |\n| 8 | you did not actually have that money. |\n| 9 | MR. BALDIGA:
And I objected. |\n| 10 | MR. HARBACH:
And then Bill objected. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said are you |\n| 12 | -- want to sentencing me to death sentence? |\n| 13 | Q
Approximately how much is the Lady May |\n| 14 | worth? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Over the years that you have been aboard |\n| 17 | the Lady May, approximately how many times have you |\n| 18 | invited friends to join you? |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 20 | that question one more time? |\n| 21 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. |\n| 22 | Q
Over the years that you had been aboard |\n| 23 | the Lady May, approximately how many times have you |\n| 24 | invited friends out to join you? |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Hold on. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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of 134 |\n|---------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
121 |\n| 1 | MR. HARBACH:
Sorry, Bill. |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
David, you have a deposition |\n| 3 | on the Lady May issues coming up.
You can choose |\n| 4 | today or then.
Either one is fine. |\n| 5 | MR. HARBACH:
That's a fair point.
I'll |\n| 6 | move on. |\n| 7 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay.
No question. |\n| 8 | MR. HARBACH:
If I could direct counsel's |\n| 9 | attention again to document 77.
And I want to focus |\n| 10 | on question 19. |\n| 11 | Q
Mr. Kwok, let me know when you're read |\n| 12 | that question. It's no. 19. |\n| 13 | (Pause.) |\n| 14 | A
Finished. |\n| 15 | Q
Okay.
So for the benefit of the record, |\n| 16 | the question says within ten years before you filed |\n| 17 | for bankruptcy did you transfer any property to a |\n| 18 | self settled trust or similar device of which you |\n| 19 | are a beneficiary? |\n| 20 | A
No. |\n| 21 | Q
And that is indeed what you checked on the |\n| 22 | form.
My question for you is if you turn -- if |\n| 23 | changed the word you to a family member as the |\n| 24 | beneficiary, what would the answer be? |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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122 |\n| 1 | A
I cannot answer questions with if. |\n| 2 | Q
I'll ask it a different way. |\n| 3 | MR. HARBACH:
And, Jack, I'll ask you to |\n| 4 | bear with me. |\n| 5 | Q
Within ten years before you filed for |\n| 6 | bankruptcy did you transfer any property to a self |\n| 7 | settled trust or similar device of which a member of |\n| 8 | your family is a beneficiary? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | Q
Sticking with that same document going |\n| 11 | forward to question 27.
Just let me know when |\n| 12 | you're read it, sir. |\n| 13 | (Pause.) |\n| 14 | A
Okay. I'm finished. |\n| 15 | Q
So you see there you have checked the box |\n| 16 | next to the word yes.
And then the instructions say |\n| 17 | check all that apply above and fill in the details |\n| 18 | below for each business. |\n| 19 | MR. HARBACH:
Do you see where that is, |\n| 20 | Jack? |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't see |\n| 22 | that. |\n| 23 | MR. HARBACH:
Next -- Holley can show you. |\n| 24 | (Pause.) |\n| 25 | MR. HARBACH:
So I was just pointing out |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
123 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | to the witness -- for the benefit of the translator |\n| 2 | I'll say it again. |\n| 3 | Q
Next to the box that is checked yes, the |\n| 4 | instructions say check all that apply above and fill |\n| 5 | in the details below for each business.
None of the |\n| 6 | boxes above is checked and that's my question. |\n| 7 | Which box or boxes should be checked for |\n| 8 | each of those three entities that you have listed? |\n| 9 | A
I cannot determine which one. |\n| 10 | Q
Is that something you would need more time |\n| 11 | to figure out or you just don't know the answer? |\n| 12 | A
I could answer one by one. |\n| 13 | Q
Okay. Let's do that.
Let's start with |\n| 14 | Genever. |\n| 15 | A
Which Genever? |\n| 16 | Q
Well, the one that's listed is Genever |\n| 17 | Holdings Corporation. |\n| 18 | Which of those boxes would you check for |\n| 19 | Genever Holdings Corporation, if any? |\n| 20 | A
It was one time -- it was a member of LLC. |\n| 21 | The above don't apply and should transfer to no. 12 |\n| 22 | -- transfer to 12. |\n| 23 | It used to be an LLC. |\n| 24 | Q
Are you saying that you would check the |\n| 25 | box for a member of an LLC but it should be in the |\n\nof 134\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 124 |\n|----|--------------|------------------------------------------------------|-----|\n| 1 | past tense? | | |\n| 2 | A | Yes.
Used to be. | |\n| 3 | Q | Do any of the other boxes apply to your | |\n| 4 | | relationship to Genever Holdings Corporation? | |\n| 5 | A | The last row seems like appropriate for | |\n| 6 | | me. I'm not very sure. | |\n| 7 | Q | The last row being an owner of at least | |\n| 8 | | five percent of the voting or equity securities of a | |\n| 9 | corporation? | | |\n| 10 | A | I owned 50 percent for a very short period | |\n| 11 | of time. | | |\n| 12 | Q | Okay.
What about for Shiny Time? | |\n| 13 | A | Shiny Time already went away. | |\n| 14 | Q | I understand.
When it was in existence, | |\n| 15 | | which of those boxes was accurate? | |\n| 16 | A | Number one. | |\n| 17 | Q | A sole proprietor? | |\n| 18 | A | Yes. | |\n| 19 | Q | Any of the others? | |\n| 20 | A | Not sure. | |\n| 21 | Q | Okay.
What about for Well Origin Limited? | |\n| 22 | A | It went away. | |\n| 23 | Q | Okay.
Same question though.
Which of | |\n| 24 | | those boxes applied when it was in existence? | |\n| 25 | A | Number one. | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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125 |\n| 1 | Q | Any of the others? |\n| 2 | A | Not sure. |\n| 3 | Q | One last point about this question. |\n| 4 | | For Genever Holdings Corporation the block |\n| 5 | | for the dates that the business existed is blank. |\n| 6 | | Do you know what those dates should be? |\n| 7 | A | 2015.
Probably March, April to June, |\n| 8 | July. | |\n| 9 | Q | Of which year? |\n| 10 | A | 2015. |\n| 11 | Q | So from approximately March or April until |\n| 12 | | approximately July all in 2015? |\n| 13 | A | Yes. |\n| 14 | Q | Okay.
And is that the entire duration |\n| 15 | | that that corporation existed? |\n| 16 | A | I was in the company for a few months, for |\n| 17 | | this period of time, a few months and with holding - |\n| 18 | - in stock holding. | And the company still existed |\n| 19 | after I left. | |\n| 20 | Q | I understand.
And does it still exist |\n| 21 | today? | |\n| 22 | A | I believe it still exists. |\n| 23 | Q | Okay.
In what year did you get married? |\n| 24 | A | 1918 -- or 1985. |\n| 25 | Q | What year was your son born? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|---------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
126 |\n| 1 | A | 1986. |\n| 2 | Q | And how old are you, sir? |\n| 3 | A | 54. |\n| 4 | Q | How old was your son when your family |\n| 5 | | began working with Uda Property Company? |\n| 6 | A | 11.
Oh, five years -- five years old. |\n| 7 | Q | And so that would have been in |\n| 8 | | approximately 1991 that your family began working |\n| 9 | with Uda? | |\n| 10 | A | Yes. |\n| 11 | Q | When was the Henan Uda Hotel completed? |\n| 12 | A | In 1997. |\n| 13 | Q | And what about the Uda International Trade |\n| 14 | Center. | When was it completed? |\n| 15 | A | At pretty much the same time. |\n| 16 | Q | In your declaration in this case you |\n| 17 | | stated that both of those were successful ventures. |\n| 18 | A | Yes. |\n| 19 | Q | That allowed your family to start amassing |\n| 20 | significant wealth. | |\n| 21 | A | Yes. |\n| 22 | Q | So recognizing that this is in the early |\n| 23 | | '90's how much money approximately did those |\n| 24 | | ventures bring to your family? |\n| 25 | A | I don't remember. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|----------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
127 |\n| 1 | Q | More than \\$50 million? |\n| 2 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
50 or 15? |\n| 3 | | MR. HARBACH:
5-0. |\n| 4 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, okay. |\n| 5 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 6 | Q | What about the Pengu Plaza?
When was it |\n| 7 | completed? | |\n| 8 | A | July 2008. |\n| 9 | Q | So between the early '90's and 2008 what |\n| 10 | | other projects of significant did the Guo family |\n| 11 | | invest in or participate in? |\n| 12 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Since 1990's to |\n| 13 | -- | |\n| 14 | A | Between the early 1990's and 2008. |\n| 15 | Q | Do you remember any of them?
Any of the |\n| 16 | | significant ventures? |\n| 17 | A | Beijing Golden Spring. |\n| 18 | Q | What was that? |\n| 19 | A | It's a property company.
Real estate. |\n| 20 | | It's a real estate company. |\n| 21 | Q | Was this a development company or a -- |\n| 22 | | like a buying and selling agency? |\n| 23 | A | Developing company. |\n| 24 | Q | When was the Pangu Plaza project started, |\n| 25 | approximately? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
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of 134 |\n|---------------|--------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
128 |\n| 1 | A | Roughly 1999. |\n| 2 | Q | Okay. So let's use that as a point in |\n| 3 | time. | |\n| 4 | | At the beginning of the Pangu Plaza |\n| 5 | | project approximately how much had the family |\n| 6 | amassed in wealth? | |\n| 7 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Ask that |\n| 8 | question again? | |\n| 9 | | MR. HARBACH:
Sure. |\n| 10 | Q | As of 1999, which was the beginning of the |\n| 11 | | Pangu Plaza project, approximately how much wealth |\n| 12 | | had the family earned or amassed by that time? |\n| 13 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
You're talking |\n| 14 | about after 1999? | |\n| 15 | | MR. HARBACH:
No, I'm talking about as of |\n| 16 | 1999? | |\n| 17 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, as of 1999. |\n| 18 | Q | How much money had the family made by |\n| 19 | 1999? | |\n| 20 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 21 | Q | More than \\$100 million? |\n| 22 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 23 | Q | More than \\$500 million? |\n| 24 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 25 | Q | More than a billion dollars? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23
Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12
of 134 | Page 130 |\n|---------------|-------------|-------------------------------------------------------|----------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 129 |\n| 1 | A | I don't remember. | |\n| 2 | Q | Were you personally involved in the work | |\n| 3 | | with Uda Property Company? | |\n| 4 | A | Yes. | |\n| 5 | Q | Were you personally involved in the | |\n| 6 | | development of the Henan Uda Hotel? | |\n| 7 | A | Yes. | |\n| 8 | Q | Were you personally involved in the Uda | |\n| 9 | | International Trade Center in Zhengzhou? | |\n| 10 | A | Yes. | |\n| 11 | Q | Were you personally involved in the | |\n| 12 | | development of the Pengu Plaza? | |\n| 13 | A | Yes. | |\n| 14 | Q | Who was in charge of the Beijing Golden | |\n| 15 | | Spring Real Estate Development firm? | |\n| 16 | A | A professional group. | |\n| 17 | Q | Were you a member of that group? | |\n| 18 | A | At that time I was a consultant. | |\n| 19 | Q | For Beijing Golden Spring? | |\n| 20 | A | Yes. | |\n| 21 | Q | During what time frame was that, | |\n| 22 | | approximately that you were a consultant for them? | |\n| 23 | A | After 2000. | |\n| 24 | Q | After 2000.
Okay. | |\n| 25 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Harbach, I just want to | |\n\nof 134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
130 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | note that it is 4:18 and I know we've had a long day |\n| 2 | -- and I wanted to give -- I apologize for |\n| 3 | interrupting you, first of all. |\n| 4 | MR. HARBACH:
That's all right. |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
But I wanted to give |\n| 6 | counsel for the committee a chance to ask a few |\n| 7 | questions today before we conclude. |\n| 8 | MR. HARBACH:
Of course.
Sure. |\n| 9 | MR. STAFSTROM:
I'll be very brief. |\n| 10 | EXAMINATION BY MR. STAFSTROM: |\n| 11 | Q
I noticed your hair is very short. I like |\n| 12 | it.
Have you gotten a haircut recently? |\n| 13 | A
Yes.
I had a haircut. |\n| 14 | Q
Where did you get it cut? |\n| 15 | A
My wife. |\n| 16 | Q
Oh, your wife.
Okay. |\n| 17 | Does she always cut your hair? |\n| 18 | A
After the virus until now. |\n| 19 | Q
Okay.
All right. I have no further |\n| 20 | questions then. |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to put the |\n| 22 | recording on pause while we work on selecting a new |\n| 23 | date. |\n| 24 | (Off the record.) |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We're back on the record |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48
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Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12
of 134 | Page 132 |\n|---------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------|----------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 131 |\n| 1 | after a short break.
We have selected a continuance | |\n| 2 | date of April 29th, beginning at 10:00 a.m. | We are |\n| 3 | concluded for today.
Thank you. | |\n| 4 | (Meeting adjourned.) | |\n| 5 | | |\n| 6 | | |\n| 7 | | |\n| 8 | | |\n| 9 | | |\n| 10 | | |\n| 11 | | |\n| 12 | | |\n| 13 | | |\n| 14 | | |\n| 15 | | |\n| 16 | | |\n| 17 | | |\n| 18 | | |\n| 19 | | |\n| 20 | | |\n| 21 | | |\n| 22 | | |\n| 23 | | |\n| 24 | | |\n| | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 133 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|----------|\n| | | | | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n I, CHRISTINE FIORE, court-approved transcriber and certified electronic reporter and transcriber, certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the official electronic sound recording of the proceedings in the above-entitled matter.\n\n9 April 15, 2022\n\n11 Transcriber\n\n10 Christine Fiore, CERT\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 2292-48 | Filed 10/26/23 | Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 | Page 134 |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|----------|\n|---------------|-------------|----------------|---------------------------|----------|\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 133 |\n|----|-----------------------------|------------------------------|------|\n| 1 | | INDEX | |\n| 2 | | | |\n| 3 | | | Page |\n| 4 | Examination by Ms. Claiborn | | 6 |\n| 5 | Examination by Mr. Wolman | | 71 |\n| 6 | Examination by Mr. Harbach | | 80 |\n| 7 | | Examination by Mr. Stafstrom | 130 |\n| 8 | | | |\n| 9 | | | |\n| 10 | | | |\n| 11 | | | |\n| 12 | | | |\n| 13 | | | |\n| 14 | | | |\n| 15 | | | |\n| 16 | | | |\n| 17 | | | |\n| 18 | | | |\n| 19 | | | |\n| 20 | | | |\n| 21 | | | |\n| 22 | | | |\n| 23 | | | |\n| 24 | | | |\n| 25 | | | |","body_zh":"证物 48\n\nUNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT（美国康涅狄格联邦破产法院）\n关于\n*\n第 11 章\n*\n*\nHO WAN KWOK（郭文贵），\n*\n案号 22-50073(JAM)\n*\n债务人。\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n*\n债权人续会记录副本\n2022 年 4 月 6 日\n由美国受托人办公室电子录制\n记录副本制作人：Christine Fiore（克里斯廷·菲奥雷），CERT\nFiore Reporting and Transcription Service, Inc.（菲奥雷记录与文稿服务公司）\n4 Research Drive, Suite 402\nShelton, CT 06484\n(203)929-9992\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n出庭人员：\n代表债务人：WILLIAM R. BALDIGA, ESQ.（威廉·R·鲍尔迪加，律师）\nBEN SILVERBERG, ESQ.（本·西尔弗伯格，律师）\nBrown Rudnick, LLP（布朗·拉德尼克律师事务所）\nSeven Times Square\nNew York, NY\n\n代表美国受托人：HOLLEY E. CLAIBORN, ESQ.（霍莉·E·克莱伯恩，律师）\nSTEVEN MACKEY, ESQ.（史蒂文·麦基，律师）\nOffice of the U.S. Trustee（美国受托人办公室）\n150 State Street\nNew Haven, CT\n\n代表债权人\nLogan Cheng（程龙）：\nJAY MARSHALL WOLMAN, ESQ.（杰伊·马歇尔·沃尔曼，律师）\nRandazza Legal Group（兰达扎法律集团）\n100 Pearl Street, 14th Floor\nHartford, CT 06103\n\n代表债权人 Pacific Alliance\nAsia Opportunity Fund,\nLP（太平洋联盟亚洲机会基金，有限合伙企业）：\nDAVID V. HARBACH, II, ESQ.（戴维·V·哈巴赫二世，律师）\nO'Melveny & Myers, LLP（奥迈律师事务所）\n1625 I Street NW\nWashington, DC\n\nSTUART SARNOFF, ESQ.（斯图尔特·萨诺夫，律师）\nMAKENZIE RUSSO（麦肯齐·鲁索）\nO'Melveny & Myers, LLP（奥迈律师事务所）\nTimes Square Tower\n7 Times Square\nNew York, NY\n\nANNECCA SMITH, ESQ.（安妮卡·史密斯，律师）\nRobinson and Cole（罗宾逊与科尔律师事务所）\n280 Trumbull Street\nHartford, CT\n\n代表债权人 Bruno Wu（吴征）、Weican\nMeng（孟伟灿）及 Rui Ma（马蕊）：\nKRISTEN MAYHEW, ESQ.（克里斯滕·梅休，律师）\nMcElroy, Deutsch, Mulvaney &\nCarpenter（麦克尔罗伊、多伊奇、马尔瓦尼及卡彭特律师事务所）\nOne State Street\nHartford, CT\n\n代表无担保债权人\n正式委员会：\nSTEVEN STAFSTROM, ESQ.（史蒂文·斯塔夫斯特罗姆，律师）\nPullman & Comley（普尔曼与科姆利律师事务所）\n850 Main Street\nBridgeport, CT\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 克莱伯恩女士：\n早上好。今天是\n\n2 2022 年 4 月 6 日，星期三。我们在此举行\n3 Ho Wan Kwok（郭文贵）第 11 章案件\n4 （案号 22-50073）的债权人续会。\n5 我叫 Holley Claiborn（霍莉·克莱伯恩）。我是\n6 美国受托人办公室的一名出庭\n7 律师，我将主持今天的会议。今天的\n8 会议正在通过数字录音设备录制，\n9 各方也可以通过电话\n10 参加会议。包括债务人、\n11 律师及其他专业人士在内的各方\n12 均亲自到场。\n13 如诸位所闻，今天的会议正在进行口译，\n14 今天的口译员是 Jeff（杰夫），\n15 我将请 Jeff 对该宣誓作出回应。\n16 （口译员宣誓。）\n17 法庭：\n代表 Kwok 先生出席的有\n18 William Baldiga（威廉·鲍尔迪加）和 Ben Silverberg（本·西尔弗伯格）。\n19 代表债务人出席的还有\n20 财务专业人士 Craig Gelbert（克雷格·盖尔伯特）和 Matthew\n21 Flynn（马修·弗林）。\n22 代表无担保债权人\n23 委员会今日到场的是 Pullman and Comley（普尔曼与科姆利律师事务所）的 Steven Stafstrom（史蒂文·斯塔夫斯特罗姆）。\n24 \n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 Stafstrom 先生是\n2 无担保债权人正式委员会的律师。\n3 代表 PAACS 今日到场的还有\n4 Stuart Sarnoff（斯图尔特·萨诺夫）、David Harbach（戴维·哈巴赫）和 MacKenzie Russo（麦肯齐·鲁索）。\n5 他们代表 PAACS。\n6 代表包括 Rui Ma（马蕊）在内的某些\n7 债权人出席的是 Kristen Mayhew（克里斯滕·梅休）。\n8 代表债权人 Logan Cheng（程龙）\n9 出席的是 Jay Wolman（杰伊·沃尔曼）。\n10 代表 PAACS 出席的还有来自 Robinson and Cole（罗宾逊与科尔律师事务所）的 Annecca\n11 Smith（安妮卡·史密斯）。\n12 此外，今日代表债务人出席的还有\n13 Josh Klein（乔什·克莱因）和 Aaron Mitchell（亚伦·米切尔）。\n14 今天的会议将先由我提问，\n15 随后债权人将有机会\n16 上前提问。\n17 是否有人通过电话会议\n18 线路参加？\n19 麦基先生：\n美国\n20 受托人办公室的 Steven Mackey（史蒂文·麦基）在线上。\n21 谢谢你，Mackey 先生。除\n22 Mackey 先生外，还有其他人吗？\n23 无人回应，我将继续\n24 让 Kwok 先生宣誓。\n25 （债务人宣誓。）\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 克莱伯恩女士：\nKwok 先生，如您所知，\n\n2 今天的会议正在录制，Jeff 先生\n3 是我们今天的正式口译员。\n4 Jeff 将口译\n5 我提出的问题和您的回答；我要求您在\n6 Jeff 完成完整翻译后，\n7 再回答我的问题。\n8 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n9 问：\nKwok 先生，今天我们将继续讨论\n10 我们在上次债权人会议中大致未讨论完的事项，该次会议于\n11 2022 年 3 月\n12 21 日举行。\n13 自 2022 年 3 月 21 日以来，您的就业\n14 状况是否发生任何变化？\n15 答：\n没有。\n16 问：\n关于您的\n17 住所，是否发生任何变化？\n18 答：\n没有。\n19 问：\n在 2022 年 3 月 21 日举行的会议中，\n20 我曾询问您\n21 破产财产清单及破产\n22 财务状况说明的准确性。\n23 答：\n没有变化。\n24 问：\n谢谢。\n25 克莱伯恩女士：\nJeff，为便于我\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48\n提交于 10/26/23\n录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 提问，我将依照摆在您面前的文件。\n2 当我说“清单”时，指的是\n3 这份文件。然后，这份文件是\n4 财务状况说明。明白吗？当我\n5 提及 ECF 编号时，它位于页面顶部。\n6 正式口译员：\nECF 编号。\n7 明白。\n8 克莱伯恩女士：\n明白吗？这样应当能让\n9 您跟上，并从这一页开始。\n10 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n11 问：\n好的。Kwok 先生，我要请您\n12 确认您面前有——而您看来确实有——\n13 附表 A-B 至 J。\n14 私人口译员：\n他面前有\n15 中文译本。\n16 克莱伯恩女士：\n问：我看到坐在您旁边的 Baldiga 先生持有英文版本。但 Kwok 先生，您面前看来是译本。是否准确？\n答：仅附表 A-B。\n问：好的。因此，Kwok 先生，您今天回答我的问题时，将查看您本人所持的破产财产清单译本。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48\n提交于 10/26/23\n录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022 年 4 月 6 日 7\n\n1 答：\n好的。\n2 问：\n好的。\n3 私人口译员：\n请稍等，\n4 法官阁下。\n5 克莱伯恩女士：\n是。\n6 私人口译员：\n我在听取口译员\n7 口译证人回答时，\n8 有一点听不清。\n9 克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。那么，Jack（杰克），请您\n10 大声一点。我来移动麦克风。\n11 正式口译员：\n哦，好的。\n12 克莱伯恩女士：\n看看这样是否有效。\n13 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n14 问：\n好的。Kwok 先生，从\n15 附表 A-B 的问题第 1 项开始。关于附表 A-B 的\n16 问题第 1 项，该项询问您是否拥有任何不动产、\n17 住所、建筑物或类似财产中的任何法定或\n18 衡平权益。Kwok 先生，您对该\n19 问题第 1 项的回答是否定。该回答\n20 准确吗？\n21 答：\n是。\n22 问：\nKwok 先生，在 2018 年至您于\n23 2022 年 2 月提交破产申请期间，您是否拥有过任何\n24 不动产？\n25 正式口译员：\n您能重复一下\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 那个问题吗？\n2 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n3 问：\n在 2018 年至您于 2022 年 2 月\n4 提交破产申请期间，您是否拥有过任何不动产？\n5 \n6 正式口译员：\n您能重复一下\n7 那个问题吗？他说没有听到。\n8 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n9 问：\nKwok 先生——\n10 鲍尔迪加先生：\n对不起，我没有听到。\n11 正式口译员：\n他说\n12 没有理解该翻译。我只是想\n13 先确认我理解了。\n14 克莱伯恩女士：\n我将重复该问题。\n15 正式口译员：\n是。\n16 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n17 问：\nKwok 先生，在 2018 年至 2022 年\n18 2 月期间，您是否拥有过任何不动产？\n19 答：\n没有。\n20 问：\nKwok 先生，截至 2022 年 2 月\n21 提交破产申请时，您在世界任何地方的任何不动产中\n22 是否拥有任何衡平权益？\n23 答：\n没有。\n24 问：\nKwok 先生，截至 2022 年 2 月\n25 提交破产申请时，您是否拥有任何不动产中的\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 任何法定权益？\n2 答：\n没有。\n3 问：\nKwok 先生，您是否曾在香港拥有任何\n4 不动产？\n5 答：\n没有。\n6 私人口译员：\n回答是什么？\n7 正式口译员：\n没有。\n8 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n9 问：\nKwok 先生，您是否曾拥有位于\n10 香港南湾道 16A 号的房产？\n11 答：\n没有。\n12 问：\nKwok 先生，您目前是否拥有位于\n13 纽约市 Sherry Netherland（谢里·内瑟兰德）的一套公寓？\n14 正式口译员：\n我没有听清。\n15 我可以请他重复——重复回答吗？\n16 \n17 鲍尔迪加先生：\n您必须说——无论\n18 您要说什么，您必须——您是在对所有人说话，\n19 不只是对 Holley，所以我需要听到\n20 您在说什么。\n21 正式口译员：\n好的。我只是——\n22 我只是想请他重复——重复\n23 回答。\n24 鲍尔迪加先生：\n好的。\n25 正式口译员：\n好的？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23 录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12 第 10 页\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 证人：\n我不拥有纽约的那处不动产，\n2 Sharon——Sharons——那个地址我不记得了，而且我拥有——我拥有\n3 50\n4 %的股票——股票以及——\n5 私人口译员：\n没有。\n6 正式口译员：\n没有？\n7 私人口译员：\n没有。\n8 正式口译员：\n好的。\n9 证人：\n代表家庭。\n10 克莱伯恩女士：\n我能否请您不要\n11 打断？您能否等到最后，然后\n12 ——\n13 私人口译员：\n好的。\n14 克莱伯恩女士：\n——您可以表达您\n15 想说的任何内容？\n16 私人口译员：\n好的。\n17 克莱伯恩女士：\n您能否请\n18 再次翻译 Kwok 先生的回答？\n19 正式口译员：\n可以。我只是\n20 想重复一遍，确保——并且确认我说对了，\n21 您知道，他所说的内容。\n22 证人：\n所以，是的，他——他说，我拥有——我拥有\n23 50%的——50%，但我不拥有整处不动产，我只是\n24 代表\n25 家庭。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23 录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12 第 12 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n2 问：\nKwok 先生，您拥有 50%的什么？\n3 答：\nBravo Luck（布拉沃·拉克）股票的 50%\n4 ——权力。我不知道。我不理解。\n5 私人口译员：\n（无法辨认。）\n6 正式口译员：\n他拥有——他说他拥有\n7 其 50%。\n8 私人口译员：\n——我们可以很好地\n9 听到您，Holley。\n10 克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。我将要问——\n11 我将要——\n12 私人口译员：\n我不知道\n13 麦克风是否连接到任何设备。\n14 克莱伯恩女士：\n连接了。连接了。Jeff，您\n15 能大声一点吗？\n16 正式口译员：\nKwok 先生说\n17 他拥有——他拥有——股票的 50%。这是\n18 不动产的股票还是什么吗？\n19 我不知道。我不明白。但如果她想要帮助，\n20 您可以帮忙。您想让他稍微帮一点忙\n21 吗？\n22 克莱伯恩女士：\n我不愿意。\n23 正式口译员：\n好的。\n24 克莱伯恩女士：\n那么，我将——我将提出\n25 后续问题。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48\n提交于 10/26/23\n录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 正式口译员：\n好的。\n2 鲍尔迪加先生：\n好吧。但如果存在\n3 误译，我需要听到，所以——\n4 克莱伯恩女士：\n如果可以的话，我将提出一个\n5 澄清问题。\n6 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n7 问：\nKwok 先生，您是否拥有一家名为\n8 Bravo Luck（布拉沃·拉克）的公司 50%的权益？\n9 答：\n我代表我的家庭持有 50%\n10 的股票。\n11 问：\nKwok 先生，当您使用“家庭”这个词时——\n12 鲍尔迪加先生：\n我能听一下刚才的内容吗？\n13 您能重复一下吗？\n14 正式口译员：\n可以。我\n15 代表我的家庭持有该——该公司\n16 50%的股票。\n17 鲍尔迪加先生：\n好的。\n18 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n19 问：\nKwok 先生，当您说“家庭”时，您的\n20 意思是什么？\n21 答：\n我的家庭是一个大家庭，其中\n22 包括很多人。我的孩子和我的姻亲，\n23 以及所有人在一起。很多人。\n24 问：\nKwok 先生，谁拥有一项权益——\n25 鲍尔迪加先生：\n对不起。我们确实有一个\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）—2022年4月6日\n\n口译问题。\n\n私人口译员：\n我想问一下，口译是否应当是对（听不清）的概述？\n\n克莱伯恩女士（MS. CLAIBORN）：\n在杰夫（Mr. Jeff）能力所及的范围内，应当逐字翻译。\n\n私人口译员：\n是的。那么，如果郭先生说“我的儿子、我的女儿、我的兄弟、我的嫂子、我的侄子、我的侄女，很多人”，而口译员说“嗯，我的很多家人和我的兄弟，很多人”，那么这是否正确？\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我希望杰夫先生尽可能逐字翻译。基于这一指示，我们能否——\n\n官方口译员：\n可以。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——尽我们所能在今后做好具体的工作？谢谢。\n\n巴尔迪加先生（MR. BALDIGA）：\n谢谢。\n\n克莱伯恩女士提问：\n\n问：那么，郭先生，谁拥有名为 Bravo Luck（好运）的公司？\n\n答：我的儿子。\n\n问：您儿子叫什么名字？\n\n答：Cheng Wu（吴成）。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2292-48\n提交于 10/26/23\n登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\n郭文贵—2022年4月6日\n\n问：您儿子拥有 Bravo Luck 多久了？\n\n答：我不记得了。\n\n私人口译员：\n请再说一遍。\n\n官方口译员：\n我不记得了。\n\n克莱伯恩女士提问：\n\n问：那么，郭先生，在您说明您对 Southern Sherry Netherland（南方雪莉·内德兰）的所有权权益时，您拥有其中50%的是什么？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n异议。您可以口译。\n\n官方口译员：\n霍利（Holley），您能再重复一遍吗？\n\n克莱伯恩女士提问：\n\n问：郭先生，您作证称，您拥有某家公司50%的权益；这是对我询问您是否拥有 Sherry Netherland（雪莉·内德兰）公寓时所作的回答。您能否说明您的意思？\n\n答：Sherry 是合作公寓。它没有——它没有——它没有所有权。\n\n私人口译员：\n霍利女士，我可以吗？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n当然可以。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23 登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12 第16页\n\n郭文贵—2022年4月6日\n\n私人口译员：\n您得说大声一点。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。我先暂停一下。\n\n（记录外）\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。短暂休息后，我们恢复记录，郭先生，您仍在宣誓之下。杰夫，您能否重新翻译？\n\n官方口译员：\n可以。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n上一个问题。您想让我再问一遍吗？\n\n官方口译员：\n可以。您能再问一遍吗？\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。我再试一次。\n\n克莱伯恩女士提问：\n\n问：郭先生，您今天作证称，您拥有某家公司某项权益的50%；这是您对我询问您是否拥有位于 Sherry Netherland 的一套公寓时所作的回答。您能否说明您的回答？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n异议。\n\n证人：\n我不知道如何解释。他说 Sherry Netherland 是合作公寓。我没有该房产的契据，我只是代表我的家人拥有该项权利的50%。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n请原谅。请继续。\n\n私人口译员：\n因为——郭先生确实提到了公司名称 Bravo Luck，因此口译员先生没有说出 Bravo Luck 这个词。该公司持有 Sherry Netherland 的权益，郭先生代表其家人拥有 Bravo Luck 的50%，而 Bravo Luck 是拥有 Sherry Netherland 的控股公司。Sherry Netherland 是合作公寓。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n因此，只要口译员没有提供证人所使用的确切用词，我将提出持续性异议。我并非归咎于任何人或其他什么，但显然这对于证词的质量至关重要，也是必要的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我们需要——\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n我们必须使用证人所使用的措辞。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我相信杰夫今天会尽最大努力逐字翻译一切。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n谢谢。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n但请理解，本房间内对术语的熟悉程度是杰夫先生所不具备的。因此，如果有人以公司名称的简称或仅以一个词回答问题，回答应当尽可能具体——\n\n官方口译员：\n是的，我——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——如果您可以翻译这一点。\n\n官方口译员：\n——我会尽力，但说实话，霍利，那位口译员可能更了解本案，了解细节。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我同意。您能否——\n\n官方口译员：\n但如果他——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——您能否把我刚才所说的话翻译给郭先生，因为我想确保——\n\n官方口译员：\n哦。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——他以便于翻译的方式回答问题。\n\n官方口译员：\n我只是告诉他，回答要——您知道——简短、清楚，但我大致明白他所说的内容，而且——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n您能否请把郭先生的回答或意见翻译成您的意见？\n\n官方口译员：\n他说他会尽量说得更简短、更清楚，但是他需要尽可能解释细节，因为这——这关系到他的生计。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n萨诺夫先生（Mr. Sarnoff）？\n\n萨诺夫先生：\n是的。我只是想明确，如果口译员——翻译员、官方翻译员与郭先生的口译员之间存在差异，翻译员具有最终裁决权；除非翻译员同意口译员提出的翻译差异，否则他们必须先解决该问题，我们才能以郭先生的个人口译员所称郭先生所说的话为准。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n我不接受这一点。\n\n萨诺夫先生：\n没关系。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n那可以是您的立场。\n\n萨诺夫先生：\n好的。立场必须是，翻译员必须与口译员就郭先生所说的话达成一致，记录才会准确。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n我——我明白您的立场。\n\n郭文贵—2022年4月6日\n\n官方口译员：\n那么，霍利，如果我遗漏了任何内容，他的个人口译员想补充我遗漏的内容，一些细节信息，她是否可以补充；如果我同意——您知道——我遗漏的内容或他所说的内容，也许我遗漏了一些细节信息和一些——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我认为今天更好的做法——\n\n官方口译员：\n是的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——为了明确的翻译和明确的记录——\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——是由您，杰夫，来口译——\n\n官方口译员：\n嗯。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——我的问题，并口译郭先生的回答。\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n如果郭先生基于您的口译，认为您没有正确翻译，那么他可以再次作证，您可以再试一次。但我希望限制翻译员之间以及郭先生个人翻译员之间发生的互动，以便我们有一份正式记录，其中提问的人是我，问题得到正式翻译，郭先生作出回答，回答也得到正式翻译。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n但是，霍利，问题在于，证人不知道杰夫的英文陈述实际上是否准确。您不能把这留给证人。这就是我们有核对口译员的原因。如果他会说英语，我们就不需要任何口译员了。他做不到这一点。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我认为从实际情况而言，郭先生会足够的英语，能够知道他是否回答了问题。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n不，他不会。我提出异议。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n嗯，我——我认为这是我根据自己的个人经验所看到的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n话虽如此，我们将尽我们所能——\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n我同意。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——然后看看进展如何。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n好的？\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2292-48\n提交于 10/26/23\n登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\n郭文贵—2022年4月6日\n\n克莱伯恩女士提问：\n\n问：那么，回到问答。郭先生，您是否拥有 Genever Holdings Corporation（Genever控股公司）的任何权益？\n\n答：我只是有——实际上，我没有，但我只是持有——我只是代表我的家人持有一些权益。\n\n问：除您之外，是否有人获授权代表 Genever Holdings Corporation 行事？\n\n答：我的儿子。\n\n问：是否有文件记载您在 Genever Holdings Corporation 中的所有权权益，无论其为何？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n异议。您——您可以回答。\n\n证人：\n没有。\n\n私人口译员：\n霍利女士，我可以——首先，上一次——当他正在向证人指示其证词应当如何作出时，我认为口译员——官方口译员没有翻译您的指示。他是在告诉证人应当做什么，而不是翻译您所说的话。\n\n私人口译员：\n然后，现在证人说，他两次询问口译员——您说的是所有权，您说的是所有权权益。现在他两次使用了这些词，最后杰夫先生说“是”。于是他回答“没有”，但这段互动没有被翻译。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n杰夫先生，您能否翻译？\n\n官方口译员：\n我不知道她刚才说了什么。我不知道。我没有理解她在说什么。\n\n私人口译员：\n我的意思是，每一个词都应当被翻译。证人——证人说的每一个词都应当被翻译。霍利女士所说的话也应当被翻译，对吗？\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n对。\n\n私人口译员：\n对。但是他没有——翻译霍利女士的——而且您没有翻译郭先生所说的一切。\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。也许——也许我们应当让她来翻译。我将退出。我不知道——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n我将把——\n\n官方口译员：\n——我不熟悉——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n——我将把——\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23\n第24页（共134页） 登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\n郭文贵—2022年4月6日\n\n该事项暂停片刻。\n\n官方口译员：\n是的，是的，是的。\n\n（记录外）\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。短暂休息后，我们恢复记录。郭先生，您仍在宣誓之下。\n\n克莱伯恩女士提问：\n\n问：郭先生，您今天身上是否携带任何美国货币？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：在您提交破产案件时，您是否拥有任何美国货币？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您是否拥有任何外币？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您是否拥有任何数字货币？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您是否在美国拥有任何种类的金融账户？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您是否在美国境外拥有任何种类的金融账户？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：3月21日，您作证称您没有工作，也没有收入来源。谁为您的\n\n2 家庭开支？\n3 答\n有时是我儿子，有时是我妻子，或者\n4 有时是我的其他家庭成员。\n5 问\n您能使用任何信用卡吗？\n6 答\n不能。\n7 问\n您能使用与银行账户关联的任何借记卡\n8 吗？\n9 答\n不能。\n10 问\n您如何支付食品杂货费用？\n11 答\n我儿子、我妻子、我家庭成员的\n12 公司支付。\n13 问\n您儿子住在哪里？\n14 答\n伦敦。\n15 问\n您儿子如何给您送钱？\n16 答\n他在纽约有一家公司的家族办公室。\n17 \n18 问\n该家族办公室给您钱吗？\n19 答\n他们支付上述开支。\n20 问\n“家族办公室”一词是什么意思？\n21 BALDIGA先生：\n异议。您可以回答。\n22 官方口译员：\n我可以请求——\n23 请他重复一遍吗？\n24 CLAIBORN女士：\n可以。\n25 官方口译员：\n好的。您可以\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日，第134页\n\n1 ——\n\n2 BALDIGA先生：\n对。他还必须\n3 为证人翻译我所说的话。\n4 CLAIBORN女士：\n您还什么都没说，\n5 而他将要求证人重复其回答，\n6 然后他将进行翻译，之后我们可以\n7 进行您想进行的任何讨论。\n8 私人口译员：\n律师提出了\n9 异议。口译员没有翻译\n10 该异议。\n11 CLAIBORN女士：\n我很乐意重复\n12 问题，但如果有人在基本问题上不断\n13 打断，我们今天就无法以有意义的方式\n14 取得任何进展。\n15 BALDIGA先生：\n不，我没有打断，但是\n16 ——\n17 CLAIBORN女士：\n那么让我再试一次。\n18 BALDIGA先生：\n好的。但是请稍等。如果我\n19 提出异议或说任何其他话，那必须被\n20 翻译。\n21 CLAIBORN女士：\n您没有留出\n22 翻译的时间。那么，Jeff先生，您能翻译\n23 刚才发生的那段交流吗？\n24 官方口译员：\n好的。我\n25 不知道。打断实在太多了。\n\n案件22-50073 文件2292-48\n提交于10/26/23\n登记于10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 CLAIBORN女士：\n对。\n2 官方口译员：\nHolley，我无法\n3 继续——继续这样做。我太分心了，而且我\n4 不知道。这只是一个简单的——请证人\n5 简单重复一下，然后——\n6 CLAIBORN女士：\n让我试——\n7 官方口译员：\n——却把所有\n8 这些人都牵涉进来。\n9 CLAIBORN女士：\n没错。让我——\n10 官方口译员：\n我们不会有任何\n11 进展。\n12 CLAIBORN女士：\n让我再问一次\n13 这个问题。\n14 由CLAIBORN女士询问：\n15 问\nKwok先生，您所说的\n16 “家族办公室”一词是什么意思？\n17 BALDIGA先生：\n异议。您可以回答。\n18 CLAIBORN女士：\nBaldiga先生，该术语\n19 在文件中到处都是。您能重复——翻译吗？\n20 官方口译员：\n不，我不会\n21 继续下去了。Holley，我要请求离席。我\n22 很抱歉。这——这不会——\n23 CLAIBORN女士：\n请暂停\n24 记录。\n25 官方口译员：\n——这实在太\n\n第134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n1 多了。\n2 （停止记录）\n3 CLAIBORN女士：\n短暂休息后，我们恢复\n4 记录。\n5 Kwok先生，您仍在宣誓状态。在\n6 休息期间，我与Baldiga律师交谈，我们已\n7 同意保留对问题形式提出的所有异议。\n8 \n9 我将回到我的提问。\n10 由CLAIBORN女士询问：\n11 问\n休息前我们停下的问题\n12 是：您所说的“家族办公室”一词是什么意思？\n13 答\n它们代表我的大家庭。这是我儿子、我女儿、\n14 我妻子的公司，是一家代表我家庭进行投资的\n15 公司。\n16 问\n公司的名称是什么？\n17 答\nGolden Spring Europe（欧洲金泉）。\n18 问\n您的意思是Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）吗？\n19 答\n名称大致是这样。\n20 问\n谁支付您所吃饭食的费用？\n21 答\n有时是我妻子的公司，有时是我的\n22 家族办公室、我儿子的公司。\n23 问\nKwok先生，您使用“家族\n24 办公室”一词时，是否指名为\n25 Golden Spring New York Limited（纽约金泉有限公司）的公司？\n\n案件22-50073 文件2292-48\n提交于10/26/23\n登记于10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 官方口译员：\n公司的名称\n2 是什么？我可以——您能重复一下吗？\n3 CLAIBORN女士：\n名称是Golden Spring\n4 New York Limited（纽约金泉有限公司）。\n5 证人：\n是。\n6 由CLAIBORN女士询问：\n7 问\n在您的破产案件中，您提交了一份\n8 涵盖您2月份开支的报告。\n9 \n10 官方口译员：\n我可以再重复\n11 一遍吗？\n12 CLAIBORN女士：\n也许我再试一次。\n13 官方口译员：\n谢谢。\n14 由CLAIBORN女士询问：\n15 问\nKwok先生，您提交了一份涵盖2022年2月的\n16 月度经营报告，该报告显示您支出了约\\$160,000。\n17 \n18 BALDIGA先生：\n异议。我提出异议。\n19 由CLAIBORN女士询问：\n20 问\n谁为\\$160,000的支出提供资金？\n21 答\n一部分来自Golden Spring家族办公室\n22 和该公司，一部分由我妻子及我\n23 妻子的公司支付。\n24 问\n您妻子的公司名称是什么？\n25 答\nGreenwich（格林尼治），位于Connecticut（康涅狄格州）。\n\n案件22-50073 文件2292-48\n提交于10/26/23\n登记于10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问\n您指的是该公司吗？\n2 答\n是，该公司的名称。\n3 问\n您妻子的公司Greenwich支付哪些\n4 开支？\n5 答\n主要是食物，因为我住在我妻子的\n6 房子里。我们分担清洁费用、开支，因为\n7 ——还有花园维护费用。\n8 身份不明的发言人：\n好的。我们能\n9 短暂停一下，以便我与我的共同律师\n10 或我的合伙人交谈吗？\n11 BALDIGA先生：\n不，我们就等着。\n12 由CLAIBORN女士询问：\n13 问\n您妻子的公司Greenwich从哪里\n14 获得资金？\n15 答\n我不知道。\n16 问\n您妻子的公司Greenwich是否支付过\n17 任何专业费用？\n18 答\n我不知道。\n19 问\n您妻子是否是实际作出\n20 付款的人？\n21 答\n是。\n22 问\n您妻子有支票账户吗？\n23 答\n我不知道。\n24 问\n您妻子有借记卡吗？\n25 答\n我不知道。\n\n案件22-50073 文件2292-48 提交于10/26/23\n登记于10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 当您与妻子在餐馆用餐时，\n2 谁支付账单？\n3 答 我从未和我妻子去过餐馆。\n4 问 从来没有？\n5 答 我认为我被这些人追逐，所以我\n6 从未去过。我认为我——您知道，我认为我被\n7 这些人追逐。\n8 问 您妻子购买食品杂货吗？\n9 答 有时。\n10 问 她如何支付？\n11 答 我不知道。\n12 问 为什么Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）支付\n13 您的一些个人开支？\n14 答 因为我是家庭成员之一，而且\n15 我儿子非常成功，他非常爱我。\n16 问 还有其他原因吗？\n17 答 我不知道。\n18 问 Golden Spring支付您哪些\n19 个人生活开支？\n20 答 安保开支，因为我被后面的那些人\n21 追逐，还有交通、服装\n22 及一些生活用品。\n23 问 Golden Spring New\n24 York的哪个人——\n25 CLAIBORN女士：\n等一下。我将要\n\n案件22-50073 文件2292-48\n提交于10/26/23\n登记于10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问一个完整的问题。\n2 由CLAIBORN女士询问：\n3 问\n那么，Golden Spring New York中是谁\n4 批准支付您的个人\n5 生活开支？\n6 答\n我儿子。\n7 问\n请说明您儿子如何批准\n8 这些付款。\n9 答\n我通常与Golden Spring、\n10 该公司的经理和首席执行官沟通。\n11 私人口译员：\n（听不清）\n12 董事，不是经理。\n13 官方口译员：\n您能——\n14 好的。董事，不是经理。\n15 BALDIGA先生：\n谢谢。\n16 由CLAIBORN女士询问：\n17 问\nKwok先生，您刚才提到的\n18 董事或经理是谁？\n19 答\nWang Yanping（王艳萍）。\n20 问\nPing女士是Golden Spring New\n21 York的高管吗？\n22 答\n她是一位女士。她是女性。\n23 问\nPing女士是Golden\n24 Spring New York的公司高管吗？\n25 答\n是。\n\n案件22-50073 文件2292-48 提交于10/26/23\n登记于10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 她的职务是什么？\n2 答 她是高管或董事。\n3 问 她有职务名称吗？\n4 答 我不知道。\n5 问 Kwok先生，您是Golden Spring New York的\n6 公司高管吗？\n7 答 现在吗？\n8 问 是。\n9 答 不是。\n10 问 Kwok先生，您过去是否曾经是\n11 Golden Spring New York的公司高管？\n12 答 该公司于2015年成立时，我似乎担任过一个职务。\n13 我忘了当时是什么职务。\n14 \n15 问 Kwok先生，您在\n16 Golden Spring New York中拥有任何权益吗？\n17 答 没有。\n18 问 过去，您是否曾在Golden Spring New York中拥有\n19 任何种类的所有权权益？\n20 答 没有。\n21 问 您参与了Golden Spring New York的\n22 设立吗？\n23 答 是。\n24 问 您在Golden Spring New York的\n25 设立中担任什么角色？\n\n案件22-50073 文件2292-48 提交于10/26/23\n第134页 登记于10/26/23 20:46:12 第34页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 33\n1 答 顾问，提供意见和建议。\n2 问 您儿子参与了\n3 Golden Spring New York的设立吗？\n4 答 他是主要负责人。他——他是\n5 主要负责人。\n6 问 Golden Spring New York设立时，\n7 谁拥有纽约——Golden\n8 New——Golden Spring New York的所有权权益？\n9 答 我儿子。\n10 问 Golden Spring Hong Kong（香港金泉）在Golden Spring New York中\n11 拥有任何所有权权益吗？\n12 答 我不知道权益的细节，\n13 因为这——这两者结合起来，被\n14 视为一回事。\n15 问 Golden Spring Hong Kong是否是与Golden Spring New York\n16 不同的公司？\n17 答 我不知道。\n18 问 谁拥有Golden Spring Hong Kong？\n19 答 我儿子。\n20 问 2015年Golden Spring New York\n21 成立时，谁拥有Golden Spring Hong Kong？\n22 答 我不知道。\n23 问 您是Golden\n24 Spring Hong Kong的公司高管吗？\n25 答 我不记得。\n\n案件22-50073 文件2292-48\n提交于10/26/23\n登记于10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问\n您是否曾是Golden Spring Hong Kong的公司\n2 高管？\n3 答\n我不记得。\n4 问\n您在Golden Spring Hong Kong中拥有任何\n5 所有权权益吗？\n6 答\n没有。\n7 问\n您过去是否曾在Golden Spring Hong Kong中拥有\n8 所有权权益？\n9 答\n没有。\n10 问\nGolden Spring New York从事何种\n11 业务？\n12 答\n我不知道。\n13 问\nGolden Spring New York如何产生\n14 收入？\n15 答\n我不知道。\n16 私人口译员：\nHolley女士，我\n17 不知道这——他所说的（听不清）是，\n18 Golden Spring New York如何产生收入，\n19 而不是Golden Spring New York如何赚钱，\n20 对吗？\n21 CLAIBORN女士：\n那基本上就是我的\n22 问题。\n23 私人口译员：\n是，所以\n24 口译员不应当——以Golden Spring New York——如何\n25 使Golden\n\n第134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n1 Spring New York赚钱的方式，向——向——向\n2 Kwok先生翻译。\n3 官方口译员：\n产生金钱，\n4 是。产生收入，产生金钱。\n5 私人口译员：\n不，但您说了\n6 ——\n7 CLAIBORN女士：\n我很乐意具体地\n8 问。\n9 由CLAIBORN女士询问：\n10 问\nGolden Spring New York如何\n11 赚钱？\n12 答\n我不知道。\n13 问\n在2015年，您是否参与了\n14 Golden Spring New York的业务？\n15 答\n我不记得。\n16 问\n您是否曾向Golden Spring New York赠送过\n17 金钱？\n18 答\n没有。\n19 问\n您是否曾给过Golden\n20 Spring New York任何金钱？\n21 答\n没有。\n22 问\n您是否曾向Golden Spring New York转让过\n23 任何种类的财产？\n24 答\n没有。\n25 问\n您是否曾以任何方式向Golden Spring New\n\n案件22-50073 文件2292-48 提交于10/26/23\n登记于10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 York提供资金？\n2 答 没有。\n3 问 您是否曾借钱给Golden\n4 Spring New York？\n5 答 没有。\n6 问 您是否曾将自己的任何资金\n7 投资于Golden Spring New York？\n8 答 没有。\n9 问 Yanping Wang担任什么\n10 公司职务？\n11 答 高管和董事。\n12 问 Yanping Wang是Golden\n13 Spring New York的总裁吗？\n14 答 是。\n15 问 Golden Spring New York还有其他\n16 公司高管吗？\n17 答 有。\n18 问 他们是谁？\n19 答 我不太清楚他们的\n20 姓名。\n21 问 请告诉我您记得的内容。\n22 答 什么——我不太清楚他们的姓名，\n23 因为我连律师的姓名都不记得。我不想\n24 误导您，Holley。\n\n案件22-50073 文件2292-48 提交于10/26/23\n登记于10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）有多少名高级职员？\n2 答 我不记得了。哦，我不知道。\n3 抱歉。我不知道。\n4 问 纽约金泉有董事吗？\n5 答 Yanping Wang（王艳萍）。\n6 问 Wang女士是纽约金泉唯一的董事吗？\n7 答 我不知道。\n8 问 纽约金泉从哪里获得用于支付您个人开支的资金？\n9 答 我不知道。\n10 问 纽约金泉有雇员吗？\n11 答 有。\n12 问 多少名？\n13 答 我不知道。\n14 问 您目前是否以任何方式参与纽约金泉的业务？\n15 答 没有。\n16 问 纽约金泉拥有什么？\n17 答 我不知道。\n18 问 纽约金泉愿意向您出借 \\$8 million。它从哪里获得这 \\$8 million？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48\n提交于 10/26/23\n录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\n郭文贵—April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 我不知道。\n2 问 是您要求纽约金泉向您出借 \\$8 million 吗？\n3 答 不是。\n4 问 是谁要求纽约金泉向您出借 \\$8 million？\n5 答 我的律师。\n6 问 哪位律师？\n7 答 在场的 Aaron Mitchell（艾伦·米切尔）。\n8 问 您指的是 Aaron Mitchell 吗？\n9 答 现在我想起他的名字了。\n10 不明身份发言人：为记录起见，我不确定 Mitchell先生是否已经登记出庭。如果他将在此代表债务人，适宜由他提交其出庭通知。\n11 MS. CLAIBORN（克莱伯恩女士）：我相信我今天早些时候确实读到了 Mitchell先生的名字。\n12 不明身份发言人：他尚未提交——\n13 克莱伯恩女士：他确实签署了——\n14 不明身份发言人：——本案的出庭通知。\n15 克莱伯恩女士：谢谢。您能翻译一下吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23\n共 134 页 录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12 第 40 页\n\n郭文贵—April 6, 2022 39\n\n1 法庭官方口译员：我没有完全听清。我知道距离有些远。我没有——\n2 由克莱伯恩女士讯问：\n3 问 纽约金泉有任何银行账户吗？\n4 答 我不知道。\n5 问 您可以接触纽约金泉的财务账户吗？\n6 答 不可以。\n7 问 您是否有权代表纽约金泉进行财务交易？\n8 答 没有。\n9 私人口译员：不，不是这个问题。\n10 法庭官方口译员：问题是什么？\n11 克莱伯恩女士：我很乐意重复一遍问题。\n12 由克莱伯恩女士讯问：\n13 问 您是否有权代表纽约金泉进行财务交易？Kwok先生，如果您不回答——如果您不明白我的问题——\n14 法庭官方口译员：他在问，他——如果我是在问他是否有权使用——使用纽约金泉的账户进行交易。您知道的。\n15 克莱伯恩女士：那不是我的问题。\n16 由克莱伯恩女士讯问：\n17 问 Kwok先生，您是否获授权代表纽约金泉进行任何种类的财务交易？\n18 答 没有。\n19 MR. BALDIGA（巴尔迪加先生）：抱歉，口译员可能有意见。\n20 克莱伯恩女士：请您翻译一下好吗？\n21 法庭官方口译员：是。她说这是交易——财务交易的交易——\n22 私人口译员：交易。\n23 法庭官方口译员：——交易——\n24 私人口译员：不是交易。\n25 法庭官方口译员：他说，不，他没有——我没有被授权进行交易、财务交易。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48\n提交于 10/26/23\n录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\n郭文贵—April 6, 2022\n\n1 由克莱伯恩女士讯问：\n2 问 您目前为纽约金泉做什么工作（如有）？\n3 答 没有。\n4 问 纽约金泉是否资助您儿子的个人生活开支？\n5 答 我不知道。\n6 问 纽约金泉是否资助您女儿的个人生活开支？\n7 答 我不知道。\n8 问 您是否欠纽约金泉任何钱款？\n9 答 是。\n10 问 多少？\n11 答 大约超过 \\$21 million。\n12 问 您如何会欠纽约金泉超过 \\$21 million？\n13 答 因为过去五年里，我被许多债权人起诉。\n14 问 纽约金泉是否——\n15 克莱伯恩女士：我很抱歉。\n16 法庭官方口译员：我刚刚请他重复一遍。\n17 证人：过去五年里，我受到中国共产党的追捕。\n18 法庭官方口译员：我没有听清。问——我请他再重复一遍。\n\n郭文贵—April 6, 2022 共 134 页\n\n1 次。\n2 巴尔迪加先生：简短——简短回答。\n3 证人：过去五年里，我被中国共产党设计的一些案件困住——困住，包括过去的案件、那起案件。我需要——需要支付大量律师费，所以我从纽约金泉获得支持。这是我欠 \\$21 million 的主要原因。\n4 私人口译员：口译员漏掉了这一点，律师——律师费。\n5 法庭官方口译员：是的，我说了律师费。我说了。难道我没有说律师费吗？\n6 私人口译员：我不这么认为，但只要您这么说。\n7 由克莱伯恩女士讯问：\n8 问 \\$21 million 中有多少是律师费？\n9 法庭官方口译员：您能再重复一遍吗？\n10 由克莱伯恩女士讯问：\n11 问 \\$21 million 中有多少——\n12 法庭官方口译员：好的。\n13 由克莱伯恩女士讯问：\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23\n录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\n郭文贵—April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 ——由律师费构成？\n2 答 我认为其中大部分是律师费。\n3 问 为什么纽约金泉支付您的律师费？\n4 答 因为纽约金泉是我儿子和我家人的公司，他们非常爱我。他们希望——他们希望我活着，不被我身后的人杀害。\n5 问 您与纽约金泉之间有任何书面协议吗？\n6 答 有。\n7 问 什么法律——抱歉。您与纽约金泉之间有哪些书面协议？\n8 答 这是借款——借款协议。\n9 问 您何时订立该借款协议？\n10 答 几年前。我知道——我不知道大致时间。\n11 私人口译员：我不记得。\n12 克莱伯恩女士：什么——\n13 法庭官方口译员：什么——是的，我不记得时间。\n14 由克莱伯恩女士讯问：\n15 问 您与纽约金泉之间法律协议的条款是什么？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23 录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12 第 45 页\n\n郭文贵—April 6, 2022\n\n1 抱歉。让我换一种说法。您与纽约金泉之间书面协议的条款是什么？\n2 答 我不记得。\n3 不明身份发言人：抱歉。您能重复一下英文吗？\n4 克莱伯恩女士：请继续说——重复。\n5 法庭官方口译员：我不记得。\n6 由克莱伯恩女士讯问：\n7 问 根据您与纽约金泉之间的该书面协议，您是否有义务偿还全部款项？\n8 答 是。\n9 巴尔迪加先生：问题还有后半部分。\n10 由克莱伯恩女士讯问：\n11 问 即纽约金泉代表您支付给律师的款项。\n12 答 是。\n13 私人口译员：只是口译上有一点差异。例如，口译员没有翻译“根据该协议，您是否有义务将全部——”\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48\n提交于 10/26/23\n录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\n郭文贵—April 6, 2022\n\n1 ——全部款项偿还”。全部款项，即，您知道的——\n2 巴尔迪加先生：好的。\n3 私人口译员：——花在律师身上的全部款项。\n4 巴尔迪加先生：也许 Holley（霍利）可以澄清这一点。\n5 私人口译员：是。\n6 由克莱伯恩女士讯问：\n7 问 我要问一个很长的问题。我会将其分成几个部分。\n8 Kwok先生，您是否有义务向纽约金泉偿还纽约金泉代表您支付给律师的全部款项？\n9 答 是。\n10 问 与纽约金泉的该协议是书面的吗？\n11 答 是。\n12 问 这是否就是您几分钟前提到的同一份书面协议？\n13 答 是。\n14 问 您与纽约金泉之间是否有不止一份书面协议？\n15 答 是。\n\n共 134 页\n\n郭文贵—April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 您与纽约金泉之间的其他书面协议是什么？\n2 答 上周，我与 Logan Cheng（洛根·程）有一个案件。与 Logan Cheng 的和解，——用于和解的款项是我从纽约金泉借来的款项。\n3 问 您与纽约金泉之间还有其他书面协议吗？\n4 答 我不记得。\n5 问 纽约金泉是否与任何在诉讼中代理您的律师订有费用协议？\n6 您能——您能回答吗，Kwok先生？\n7 法庭官方口译员：任何协议——您能再重复一遍吗？\n8 由克莱伯恩女士讯问：\n9 问 纽约金泉是否与任何在诉讼中代理 Kwok先生的律师订有——任何种类的费用协议？\n10 答 我不知道。\n11 问 Kwok先生，在您于伦敦对 UBS（瑞银）提起的诉讼中，谁代理您？\n12 答 伦敦的律师——律师事务所。\n13 问 名称是什么？\n14 答 我不完全记得英文名称。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23 录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12 第 48 页\n\n郭文贵—April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 纽约金泉是否与伦敦的那位律师订有费用协议？\n2 答 应该有。\n3 巴尔迪加先生：抱歉。回答是什么？\n4 法庭官方口译员：应该有。\n5 由克莱伯恩女士讯问：\n6 问 您知道它是否确实有——有费用协议吗？\n7 答 我不确定。\n8 问 纽约金泉中是谁授权支付您的诉讼费用？\n9 答 我儿子。\n10 问 您儿子为使纽约金泉的资金用于您的利益，是否必须与其他人沟通？\n11 答 是。\n12 问 您儿子需要与谁沟通？\n13 答 他需要与我的家人沟通，其中包括一百多名家庭成员，因为他们有一个基金。\n14 私人口译员：那个——数字是 181。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48\n提交于 10/26/23\n录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\n郭文贵—April 6, 2022\n\n1 由克莱伯恩女士讯问：\n2 问 Kwok先生，如果您儿子想给您 \\$100，他是否必须向纽约金泉的某人寻求授权？\n3 答 我不知道。\n4 问 当您说您儿子必须与纽约金泉的某人沟通时，他需要与多少人沟通？\n5 答 我不知道细节。\n6 问 就纽约金泉愿意向您出借的 \\$8 million 而言，您儿子是否必须取得纽约金泉其他人员对此项交易的同意？\n7 答 我不知道。\n8 问 您是否曾去过纽约市纽约金泉的办公室？\n9 答 去过。\n10 问 您多久去一次纽约市纽约金泉的办公室？\n11 答 没有——没有固定时间。有时我一个月去几次。有时我——我几个月没有去过那里。\n12 问 您上一次去纽约金泉办公室是什么时候？\n13 答 昨天。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23\n录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\n郭文贵—April 6, 2022\n英语>>>\n\n1 问 您为什么去？\n2 答 为准备今天的会议。\n3 问 您儿子是否就\n4 $8 million 贷款与 Yanping Wang（王雁平）交谈过？\n5 答 我不知道。\n6 问 您是否就来自 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）的 $8\n7 million 贷款协商过条款？\n8 答 没有。\n9 问 代表您协商该 $8\n10 million 贷款的人是谁？\n11 答 我的律师。\n12 问 哪位律师？\n13 答 Aaron Mitchell（阿伦·米切尔）。\n14 问 Aaron Mitchell 律师在 Golden Spring New York 与谁\n15 协商？\n16 官方口译员：\n您能重复\n17 一遍吗？\n18 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n19 问 Aaron Mitchell 律师在 Golden Spring New York 与谁\n20 协商？\n21 答 我不知道。我的儿子。\n22 问 您是否于 February 2022 从\n23 Lamp Capital, LLC（蓝普资本有限责任公司）借入 $1 million？\n24 答 是。\n25 问 来自 Lamp Capital, LLC 的该笔贷款是否\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23 登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12 第 51 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 50\n\n1 有书面文件？\n2 答 没有。\n3 问 来自\n4 Lamp Capital 的贷款条款是什么？\n5 答 我不知道细节。\n6 问 Lamp Capital, LLC 的成员是谁？\n7 答 我的儿子。\n8 问 Lamp\n9 Capital, LLC 是否还有其他成员？\n10 答 我不知道。\n11 问 Lamp\n12 Capital, LLC 的管理成员是谁？\n13 答 我不知道。\n14 问 Lamp Capital 中授权\n15 该笔贷款的人是谁？\n16 答 我的儿子。\n17 问 Lamp Capital, LLC 的资产是什么？\n18 答 我不知道。\n19 问 Lamp Capital 拥有什么？\n20 答 我不知道。\n21 问 您是否曾以任何\n22 方式为 Lamp Capital 提供资金？\n23 答 没有。\n24 问 您是否曾向 Lamp\n25 Capital, LLC 投资任何资金？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23\n登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 没有。\n2 问 为什么 Lamp Capital 向您出借 $1\n3 million，而不是 Golden Spring New York？\n4 答 我不知道。\n5 问 Lamp Capital 向您出借的 $1 million 的\n6 来源是什么？\n7 答 我不知道。\n8 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我们休息五\n9 分钟去洗手间好吗？实际上，我们将在 12:10\n10 恢复进行。\n11 （休庭）\n12 CLAIBORN 女士：\n短暂休息后，我们重新开始\n13 记录。\n14 郭先生，您仍在宣誓作证。\n15 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n16 问 郭先生，您是否参与了\n17 选择在伦敦的诉讼中代表您的律师？\n18 \n19 答 是。\n20 问 您在伦敦的代理律师是否要求支付\n21 预付聘用费？\n22 答 是。\n23 问 您是否向您在伦敦的代理律师支付了\n24 预付聘用费？\n25 答 是。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23\n登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 多少？\n2 答 300,000 pound。\n3 问 该笔 300,000 pound 的预付聘用费是在\n4 何时支付的？\n5 答 大约两年前。\n6 问 是谁为该预付聘用费提供资金？\n7 答 我的儿子帮助支付了——支付了那笔钱。\n8 问 您儿子是否支付了全部预付聘用费？\n9 答 是。\n10 问 您儿子是否用其\n11 个人资金支付了预付聘用费？\n12 答 应该是来自英国的一家公司。\n13 问 支付该预付聘用费的公司的\n14 名称是什么？\n15 答 我不记得。\n16 问 Golden Spring New York 是否向您在伦敦的代理律师\n17 支付了预付聘用费？\n18 答 我不记得细节，因为除了\n19 预付聘用费和之后——您知道的——\n20 几笔其他付款以外。\n21 问 郭先生，如果您想去买一双鞋，\n22 您会如何支付一双鞋的费用？\n23 答 我会请 Golden Spring New York\n24 为此付款。\n25 问 该流程会如何进行？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23\n登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 我会与董事和 E Wa\n2 Wang（王娥华，读音）交谈，请她联系——与我儿子交谈，\n3 并支付鞋款。\n4 问 鞋类公司如何取得这笔钱？\n5 鞋店。\n6 答 我不知道。通常由 E Wa Wang 沟通，\n7 因为我的英语能力\n8 不足以进行沟通。\n9 问 如果您去一家商店，试穿鞋子，\n10 并想从商店把鞋带回家，您会\n11 如何支付鞋款？\n12 答 近几年，我基本上从未\n13 买过一双鞋。\n14 问 您最后一次支付的东西是什么？\n15 答 最近，我没有去买任何东西。\n16 BALDIGA 先生：\n抱歉。您能重复\n17 一下吗？\n18 官方口译员：\n最近，我\n19 没有去买任何东西。\n20 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n21 问 我的问题不是最近。我的问题\n22 是，您最后购买的东西是什么？\n23 答 我不记得。\n24 问 您是否曾在餐馆用餐？\n25 答 近几年，没有。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23 登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12 第 55 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n1 问\n在 COVID 19 之前，您是否在\n2 餐馆用餐？\n3 答\n非常少，因为我害怕被我身后的人\n4 杀害，因为我一直\n5 处于被追赶的过程中。\n6 问\n当您在餐馆用餐时，您是否是\n7 支付账单的人？\n8 答\n我没有钱支付，所以这就是我\n9 不去那里的原因。\n10 问\n郭先生，如果您想去买一杯\n11 咖啡，您会如何支付？\n12 答\n我从未买过一杯咖啡。我——\n13 我害怕我身后的人可能会在\n14 咖啡里给我下毒。\n15 问\n郭先生，如果您想买水，\n16 您在外面并且想买水，您会\n17 如何支付？\n18 答\n嗯，自 2107 以来，我不——我没有\n19 在外面出去买水。\n20 私人口译员：\n其中有\n21 （听不清）细微差别。\n22 官方口译员：\n您能——您能\n23 重复一下吗——您能重复——\n24 证人：\n自 2017 以来，我从未\n25 外出、四处走动，然后买水或咖啡。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23\n登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n2 问 郭先生，您是否持有任何\n3 共同基金权益？\n4 答 没有。\n5 问 您是否拥有任何债券？\n6 答 没有。\n7 问 您是否拥有任何公司的\n8 公开交易股票？\n9 答 没有。\n10 问 您是否拥有任何汽车？\n11 答 没有。\n12 问 您是否可以使用任何汽车？\n13 答 是。\n14 问 您可以使用谁的汽车？\n15 答 我儿子的和 Golden Springs 的。\n16 问 Golden Spring 是否向您提供一辆\n17 供您使用的汽车？\n18 答 是。\n19 问 那是什么种类的汽车？\n20 答 Maybach（迈巴赫）。\n21 私人口译员：\nMaybach。\n22 官方口译员：\n啊？\n23 私人口译员：\nMaybach。\n24 官方口译员：\nMaybach？好的。\n25 我不知道它的名称。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23\n登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 证人：\nMaybach。\n2 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n3 问 郭先生，您有驾驶执照吗？\n4 答 我有香港驾驶执照。\n5 问 您在美国开车吗？\n6 答 几乎不开。\n7 问 您开车时，开谁的车？\n8 答 Golden Spring 的。\n9 问 您在 Greenwich（格林尼治）的住所\n10 停放一辆车吗？\n11 答 是。\n12 问 那是什么车？\n13 答 Maybach。\n14 问 您拥有任何飞机吗？\n15 答 没有。\n16 问 您曾经拥有过任何飞机吗？\n17 答 以前有。\n18 问 您何时拥有飞机？\n19 答 大概从 2010 到 2016。\n20 问 您拥有过多少架飞机？\n21 答 一架。\n22 问 是什么飞机？\n23 答 Airbus 319（空中客车 319）。319。\n24 问 那架 Airbus 319 怎么了？\n25 答 它被 UBS（瑞银集团）和中国\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23 登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12 第 58 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 57\n\n1 共产党没收了。\n2 问 好的。您拥有任何船只吗？\n3 答 没有。\n4 问 名为 Lady May（“梅夫人”号）的游艇归谁所有？\n5 答 我的女儿。\n6 问 您女儿是否以她个人名义拥有 Lady May？\n7 \n8 答 应该是由一家公司拥有。\n9 问 拥有 Lady May 的公司的\n10 名称是什么？\n11 答 我不知道。\n12 问 Lady May 目前在哪里？\n13 答 我不知道。\n14 问 自破产申请提交以来，您是否\n15 要求您女儿将 Lady May 归还至纽约？\n16 \n17 答 我确实要求过她，并要求她与她的\n18 律师交谈，将该船归还纽约。\n19 问 您何时进行过那次谈话？\n20 答 上个月，在开庭日之后。在\n21 与您会面之后。\n22 问 您女儿怎么说？\n23 答 她说她会与她的\n24 律师交谈，然后再与我的律师交谈。\n25 问 您女儿是否同意让 Lady\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48\n提交于 10/26/23\n登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 May 返回纽约？\n2 答\n她不愿意与我详细交谈。\n3 她想——她想与她的\n4 律师交谈。\n5 问\n您女儿是否对您要求她将 Lady May\n6 归还纽约的请求表示拒绝？\n7 答\n没有，他没有——她没有。\n8 私人口译员：\n该问题\n9 未被完整口译。\n10 官方口译员：\n我知道，但她\n11 ——她已经——他已经回答了，而且——\n12 BALDIGA 先生：\n等他讲完。\n13 证人：\n没有，他——没有。\n14 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n15 问\n郭先生，您是否拥有或持有任何信托\n16 权益？\n17 答\n没有。\n18 问\n您是否为任何信托的受益人？\n19 答\n没有。\n20 问\n这是一个较长的问题。郭先生，\n21 与您针对 Baosheng Guo（郭宝胜）的诉讼有关而向您支付的\n22 $12,000 支票在哪里？\n23 答\n在律师的托管账户中。\n24 问\n持有该支票的律师的\n25 姓名是什么？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23 登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12 第 60 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n1 答\n我无法完整地说出该律师的姓名。\n2 \n3 问\n该律师的名字是什么？\n4 答\n我不能——我无法读出——\n5 ——说出他的名字。\n6 问\n持有该支票的律师是否就是在那起\n7 诉讼中代理您的同一位律师？\n8 \n9 答\n应该是。\n10 问\n您在您的 Schedule A-B（附表 A-B）中没有披露\n11 该 $12,000 支票。为什么？\n12 BALDIGA 先生：\n等问题问完。不。\n13 他能口译那个吗？\n14 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n15 问\n您为什么没有披露该 $12,000\n16 支票？\n17 答\n我的律师认为，因为该笔钱\n18 不在我的账户中，所以我不被允许——我们不——\n19 我不应该披露该笔款项。\n20 问\n好的。郭先生，您拥有任何专利吗？\n21 答\n没有。\n22 问\n您拥有任何版权吗？\n23 答\n没有。\n24 问\n您拥有任何种类的\n25 知识产权吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48\n提交于 10/26/23\n登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 答\n没有。\n2 BALDIGA 先生：\n不好意思。Holley（霍莉），我不\n3 确定您是否会再谈到这一点，但其中\n4 提到了 $12,000。\n5 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我看到了。\n6 BALDIGA 先生：\n哦，您说他没有\n7 披露。\n8 CLAIBORN 女士：\n他没有。这不在\n9 Schedule A-B 问题的答复中。\n10 BALDIGA 先生：\n就在这里。\n11 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我们可以对于是否已\n12 披露存在分歧，但我的立场是\n13 它没有被披露。我理解您可能\n14 持有不同立场。\n15 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n16 问\n郭先生，您是否拥有一家名为 Ace Decade Holdings Limited（艾斯十年控股有限公司）\n17 的公司中的任何权益？\n18 答\n是。\n19 问\n您在 Ace Decade Holdings Limited 中的\n20 所有权权益性质为何？\n21 答\n所以我拥有该权益，并要求 UBS\n22 返还 $500 million。就是那种权益。\n23 问\n您是否为 Ace Decade\n24 Holdings Limited 的唯一法定所有人？\n25 官方口译员：\n您是否是\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48\n提交于 10/26/23\n登记于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 唯一——您能重复那个问题吗？\n2 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n3 问\n您是否为 Ace\n4 Decades 的唯一法定所有人？\n5 答\n我是法定代表所有人。\n6 问\nAce Decade 是否还有其他所有人？\n7 答\n没有。\n8 问\n您何时成为 Ace Decade\n9 Holdings Limited 的所有人？\n10 答\n在 2014 年年底。\n11 问\n这是一个较长的问题。在您于\n12 伦敦针对 UBS 的诉讼中，您是\n13 一名个人原告。您作为个人原告提出\n14 请求的依据是什么？\n15 答\n因为我是 Ace Decade 的 100 percent 代表。\n16 \n17 问\n在伦敦针对 UBS 的诉讼中，有一项指称称\n18 Ace Decade 向 Dawn State Limited（道恩州有限公司）提供了 $500\n19 million。Ace Decade 从何处获得该 $500 million？\n20 \n21 答\n我向我的家人借款。\n22 问\n您是否向您的家人借款，并将其\n23 交给 Ace Decade？\n24 答\n是。\n25 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我认为那不是——\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 我们重新开始吧，因为我认为刚才那不是——\n2 那不是——\n3 私人口译员：\n是的，我认为\n4 那是——\n5 CLAIBORN 女士（克莱伯恩）：\n——那就是问题所在，\n6 因为那并不涉及 Dawn State（道恩州）——\n7 私人口译员：\n是。\n8 CLAIBORN 女士：\n——所以我要重新\n9 开始。\n10 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n11 问 你从哪里得到交给 Ace Decade（艾斯十年公司）的那 500 million？\n12 \n13 BALDIGA 先生（巴尔迪加）：\n我不认为他说过他\n14 做了那件事。我认为他说是他的家人做的，但你\n15 可以问这个问题，不过我——\n16 证人：\n来自我的家人。\n17 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n18 问 你家中具体是谁给了你\n19 钱，而后你将该钱交给了 Ace Decade？\n20 答 John Way（约翰·韦）（语音不清）。\n21 问 John Way 是谁？\n22 答 我家的一名成员。\n23 问 他是你的亲属吗？\n24 答 他是我哥哥的表亲，或者——\n25 私人口译员：\n女婿。\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022，共 134 页\n\n官方口译员：女婿？好的。抱歉。CLAIBORN 女士询问：问 在你的附表 A-B 中，你列有一项可能针对 Boise Schiller（博伊斯·席勒）的律师执业过失索赔。请你说明那是什么？答 他就是那个——他就是在纽约代理我对 UBS（瑞银集团）提起诉讼的人。他未经我许可，向法院提交了许多强制性文件。他还威胁我的家人。他饮酒后还威胁我本人。他给我们造成了许多损失，包括在向——向律师或法官提交任何英中翻译文件之前，未向我提供该等文件。这就是我——这就是我们起诉他的原因。问 你是否聘请了一名律师，在该律师执业过失诉讼中代理你？答 我儿子正在处理此事。问 为什么你儿子正就你的律师执业过失索赔与律师交谈？答 因为我需要向他借钱。问 是否已经选定律师？答 尚未。问 Kwok 先生，你是否拥有任何\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 除 Ace Decade 之外的公司权益？\n2 答 没有，但——我拥有 Bravo Luck（布拉沃·拉克）\n3 那套公寓，仅几个月的\n4 部分权益。由于该公寓是合作公寓，所以他们在我——\n5 我们购买公寓后，使用我的名字购买该公寓，\n6 然后我们将\n7 股票权益返还了。\n8 身份不明的发言人：\n抱歉。他一定\n9 说了 30、40 秒。显然还说了更多\n10 内容。是否可以有更完整的翻译？\n11 官方口译员：\n我是否遗漏了\n12 任何内容？\n13 CLAIBORN 女士：\n让我看看是否可以\n14 继续追问。\n15 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n16 问 Kwok 先生，你目前是否拥有\n17 Bravo Luck 的权益？\n18 答 没有。\n19 问 Kwok 先生，你是否拥有任何\n20 有限责任公司的权益？\n21 答 没有。\n22 问 Kwok 先生，你是否拥有任何\n23 合伙企业的权益？\n24 答 我过去拥有一家名为 Orange（奥兰治）或 Shiny Time（闪亮时光）的飞机公司，但那是在以前，而且\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 2292-48\nFiled 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 已不复存在。\n2 问 Kwok 先生，你目前是否拥有\n3 任何合伙企业的权益？\n4 答 没有。\n5 问 Kwok 先生，你目前是否拥有\n6 任何合资企业的权益？\n7 答 没有。\n8 问 除 Ace Decade 外，你现在是否拥有\n9 任何其他公司的权益？\n10 答 没有。我以前仅拥有 Orange 和 Shiny\n11 Time，但现在没有。\n12 问 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）是否对你的任何诉讼\n13 享有担保权益？\n14 答 我欠他们钱。\n15 问 你是否已向 Golden Spring New\n16 York 授予对你的任何资产、你所拥有任何物品的\n17 任何权益？\n18 答 没有。\n19 问 所以，如果你在针对 Golden Spring 的诉讼中\n20 胜诉——抱歉。名字错了。所以，如果你\n21 在针对 UBS 的诉讼中胜诉，你胜诉所得的任何款项\n22 是否必须支付给 Golden Spring？\n23 答 是。\n24 问 金额是多少？\n25 答 以前是 2,200 1 million，或者——\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 2292-48\nFiled 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 私人口译员：\n21 million。\n2 证人：\n21 million。21 million，并且\n3 现在再加一些。可能大约是 300 million。\n4 million。或者 30 million。是的。\n5 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n6 问 是否有文件规定，你收到的任何\n7 诉讼胜诉所得必须支付给\n8 Golden Spring？\n9 答 有。\n10 问 该文件的名称是什么？\n11 官方口译员：\n我要请他\n12 重复一遍。\n13 我没有听到。我刚才请他分开\n14 说，然后我没有听到——\n15 证人：\n我在 DC（哥伦比亚特区）有一个案件。有一家律师\n16 事务所代理我办理政治\n17 庇护，而该事务所遭受了\n18 中国共产党的网络攻击，因此他们——该律师\n19 事务所关闭了，并将我的个人\n20 信息交给了共产党，然后我起诉了\n21 他们。该诉讼费用、律师费，\n22 来自 Golden Spring New York。\n23 我请求 50,000——$50\n24 million 的索赔。如果我赢得该笔款项，我将把钱\n25 返还给 Golden Springs，以偿还他们支持我支付的\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 律师费。\n2 私人口译员：\nKwok 先生没有\n3 说和解。Kwok 先生只是说索赔，不是\n4 和解。\n5 官方口译员：\n你要求\n6 $50 million。是的。他为\n7 该诉讼要求 $50 million，如果他赢得——如果他赢得该笔款项，\n8 那么他将把钱返还给 Golden\n9 Spring New York。\n10 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n11 问 我的问题是，根据哪一份文件，你将就你的\n12 诉讼向 Golden\n13 Spring 偿还款项？\n14 答 该文件就是我——\n15 官方口译员：\n你能重复\n16 那一点吗？\n17 证人：\n协议是——就是该\n18 协议，我向 Golden Spring\n19 New York 借钱，以起诉那家律师事务所。\n20 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n21 问 该协议的名称是什么？\n22 答 我不记得了。\n23 问 它是一份本票吗？\n24 答 我不记得了。\n25 问 它是一份合同吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 我不太清楚地记得。\n2 问 谁起草了该文件？\n3 答 律师。\n4 问 起草该文件的律师\n5 叫什么名字？\n6 答 Melissa（梅丽莎）。\n7 问 Melissa 的姓氏是什么？\n8 答 我不知道。\n9 问 律师 Melissa 是否在起草\n10 该文件时代理你？\n11 答 是。\n12 问 Golden Spring 在起草\n13 该文件时由谁代理？\n14 答 我不知道。\n15 问 Golden Spring 是否有律师？\n16 答 有。\n17 问 你只是不记得是谁？\n18 答 他们有很多律师。\n19 问 你根据不止一份书面协议\n20 欠 Golden Spring New York 钱吗？\n21 答 是。\n22 问 有多少份协议？\n23 答 大概两三份，或者三四份。我\n24 不太清楚地记得。\n25 问 是否有人记录你\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 2292-48\nFiled 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 向 Golden Spring New York 所借的款项？\n2 答 我的律师会记下来。我们会记录\n3 下来。\n4 问 该律师叫什么名字？\n5 答 Aaron Mitchell（亚伦·米切尔）。\n6 问 你说的是 Aaron Mitchell 吗？\n7 答 哦，是。\n8 问 Aaron Mitchell 如何记录你向 Golden Spring New\n9 York 所借的\n10 款项？\n11 答 具体而言，我不知道。\n12 问 Golden Spring New York 雇用的任何人是否记录\n13 你向 Golden Spring New York\n14 所借的款项？\n15 答 我不知道。\n16 问 你是否曾看过\n17 律师 Aaron Mitchell 出具的文件，显示你欠\n18 Golden Spring New York 多少钱？\n19 答 这是我——这是我和我的律师之间的事情，\n20 我不应回答。\n21 BALDIGA 先生：\n我可以——我的意思是——\n22 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我不认为这个问题\n23 涉及——\n24 BALDIGA 先生：\n你可以——\n25 CLAIBORN 女士：\n——受特权保护的回答。\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23 Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 第 71 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 BALDIGA 先生：\n那——给我一点时间。\n2 你可以对最后一个问题回答是或否，所以如果\n3 你再次询问，我认为他会回答是或否，\n4 然后我们可以一步一步进行。\n5 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n6 问 你是否曾看过由\n7 Mitchell 律师起草的文件，显示你从 Golden Spring\n8 借了多少钱？\n9 BALDIGA 先生：\n等等。等等，我的指示\n10 需要被口译。\n11 官方口译员：\n什么？\n12 CLAIBORN 女士：\n你能——\n13 BALDIGA 先生：\n你需要指示——\n14 CLAIBORN 女士：\n请直接说出来，\n15 他会重新口译。\n16 BALDIGA 先生：\n请告诉证人\n17 什么——我正在告诉证人，他只能回答是\n18 或否。\n19 证人：\n是。\n20 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我还有其他问题，但\n21 鉴于现在的时间，我认为我们可以\n22 短暂休息，然后重新开庭，让债权人\n23 有机会提问。\n24 我建议我们在 1:15 重新开庭。\n25 BALDIGA 先生：\n可以吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 2292-48\nFiled 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 CLAIBORN 女士：\n可以。谢谢。我们将在\n2 1:15 重新开庭。\n3 （休庭。）\n4 CLAIBORN 女士：\n录音已经\n5 重新开始。我们在短暂休息后恢复开庭，\n6 Kwok 先生，你仍在宣誓状态。\n7 此时，Wolman 先生（沃尔曼）有一些\n8 问题要问你，Kwok 先生。\n9 WOLMAN 先生询问：\n10 问 下午好，Kwok 先生。\n11 3 月 21 日，我曾问过你一些有关先前\n12 证言记录的问题，具体是关于\n13 你援引《美国宪法第五修正案》\n14 权利的次数。\n15 在 April 1st, 2021，你是否正因任何犯罪\n16 受到调查？\n17 官方口译员：\nApril 21st？\n18 WOLMAN 先生：\nApril 1st, 2021。\n19 官方口译员：\n先生，你能重复\n20 该问题吗？\n21 问 你是否正因任何犯罪受到调查？\n22 答 来自 SET——美国 SET，以及他们正在\n23 调查 GTV（全球电视台），他们可以与我们的\n24 律师沟通。\n25 问 你是否指的是证券交易\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23 Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 第 73 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 委员会？\n2 答 是。\n3 问 他们具体在调查什么？\n4 BALDIGA 先生：\n异议。\n5 我需要问一下，这是否会披露\n6 受特权保护的信息。\n7 你对上一个问题的回答是否属于\n8 来自你律师的信息？\n9 私人口译员：\n我能不能——\n10 官方口译员：\n她想\n11 帮忙。\n12 私人口译员：\n因为他没有——\n13 \n14 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我认为你应当再试一次。Baldiga 先生，也许你可以\n15 重复一遍，Jack 先生（杰克），你可以再试一次。\n16 官方口译员：\n你能重复\n17 你想说什么吗？\n18 BALDIGA 先生：\nWolman 先生问你\n19 你因何事受到调查。你所知的\n20 信息，是否由你的\n21 律师提供给你？\n22 \n23 证人：是。\n24 BALDIGA 先生：\n而要回答这个问题，\n25 你是否必须披露律师告诉你的\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23 Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 第 74 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— April 6, 2022\n\n1 内容？\n2 官方口译员：必须被什么？\n3 披露？\n4 BALDIGA 先生：\n你是否必须说出\n5 律师告诉你的内容？\n6 证人：\n是。\n7 BALDIGA 先生：\n那么，我指示证人\n8 基于律师—当事人特权\n9 不予回答。\n10 WOLMAN 先生：\n那不是律师—当事人\n11 信息。\n12 BALDIGA 先生：\n等一下。让其\n13 被口译。\n14 WOLMAN 先生：\n从律师处获知、并非专门为提供法律意见或获取\n15 信息之目的而进行的通信的信息，\n16 不属于受特权保护的信息。如果你的\n17 律师说天空是蓝色的，那不是\n18 受特权保护的通信。\n19 \n20 BALDIGA 先生：\n他在与我争辩。\n21 没有向你提出问题。\n22 WOLMAN 先生：\nBaldiga 先生，你是否将\n23 继续指示你的当事人不当援引\n24 律师—当事人特权？\n25 BALDIGA 先生：\n我会就一个问题作出指示\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日，按逐一问题的方式。WOLMAN先生（Wolman）：对于这个问题，您是否维持该指示？Kwok先生，您是否拒绝回答我的问题？证人：是。WOLMAN先生：您基于何种理由拒绝回答我的问题？BALDIGA先生（Baldiga）：基于律师的指示，理由是律师—委托人特权。证人：因为我无法回答该问题，原因是我与律师之间享有特权。由WOLMAN先生讯问：问：您是否曾被Securities and Exchange Commission（美国证券交易委员会）正式指控？答：没有。问：美国证券交易委员会是否已结束对您的调查？BALDIGA先生：我必须再次说明，如果您知道，您可以回答“是”或“否”。答：没有。问：美国证券交易委员会是否曾对GTV提出任何指控？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48\n提交日期 10/26/23\n登记日期 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：在过去五年中，您是否曾接受U.S. Internal Revenue Service（美国国税局）的审计？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：在过去五年中，您是否曾接受New York State（纽约州）税务机关的审计？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：您何时成为Connecticut（康涅狄格州）居民？具体是哪一天？\n\n答：大约是2020年3月初。\n\n问：为明确起见，您称您于2020年3月是康涅狄格州居民？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：那么，为何在Cheng先生、即我的委托人、对您提起的诉讼中，您签署了一份经宣誓的陈述，表明您是Sherry Netherlands Hotel（谢里-内德兰兹酒店）的居民？\n\n官方口译员：律师，您能重复一遍吗？\n\n问：如果您于2020年3月是康涅狄格州居民，您在Cheng先生对您提起的诉讼中签署了一份经宣誓的陈述，称您居住于谢里-内德兰兹酒店。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交日期 10/26/23\n登记日期 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n答：我并非百分之百住在康涅狄格州，但有时我也住在New York（纽约）。\n\n问：您何时开始有超过50%的时间住在康涅狄格州？\n\n答：自2020年3月起。\n\n问：您声称有一些资产被China（中国）查封了，对吗？\n\n答：那不是我的。那是我家人的。那是我家人的。\n\n问：您是否曾有资产被中国查封？\n\n答：您指的是登记在我名下的吗？\n\n问：是。\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：好的。2010年，您的个人净资产是多少？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：那不是一个“是”或“否”的问题。\n\n官方口译员：我能再重复一次您的问题吗？\n\nWOLMAN先生：可以。\n\n问：2010年，您的个人净资产是多少？\n\n答：我没有任何财产。\n\n问：您是否曾有过登记在您名下、价值超过$1 million的财产；这里包括您拥有某公司权益，而该权益因此为您的工作作出贡献的情形？\n\n第7页，共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 77\n\n答：2000年以前，有。\n\n问：好的。您在1999年的净资产是多少？\n\n答：我从未详细计算过。\n\n问：您估计是多少？\n\n答：大约100 million。\n\n问：那价值$100 million的资产后来怎么了？\n\n答：因为在2000年我取得了Hong Kong（香港）护照，而在中国，他们不允许我拥有任何财产、资产。\n\n问：您是否已放弃对您在1999年拥有的任何资产的一切主张？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：您为何放弃您的主张？\n\n官方口译员：放弃什么？\n\n问：您对那些资产的主张？\n\n答：因为我不被允许在中国拥有任何资产。\n\n问：如果中国改变其政策，您是否有任何权利或能力取回那些资产？\n\nBALDIGA先生：异议。如果您知道，您可以回答。\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：您在1999年最大的资产是什么？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交日期 10/26/23 登记日期 10/26/23 20:46:12 第79页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n答：有一家酒店的资产，即在中国一家酒店的股权。\n\n问：现在谁持有该权益？\n\n答：Chinese Community Party（中国共产党）。\n\n问：该权益是以党的名义持有的吗？\n\n答：中国只有一个独裁政府，即该党，而我们家族的资产被他们拿走了——被他们查封了。\n\n问：您的儿子如何变得足够富有，能够为Golden Spring（Golden Spring）和Lamp Capital（Lamp Capital）提供资金？\n\n答：因为他很早就开始投资，也把品牌引进中国。\n\n问：他从哪里获得投资资金？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：Claiborn女士（Claiborn）曾就与Golden Spring的协议询问您，而您无法确认Golden Spring的律师是谁。您记得吗？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：我想尝试唤起——可能请您恢复记忆，那位律师是否名叫Daniel？\n\n官方口译员：他是在问Daniel？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48\n提交日期 10/26/23\n登记日期 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n问：是，Daniel Pedolsky（丹尼尔·佩多尔斯基）。\n\n答：是的，可能是；他过去是Golden Spring的律师，也是我的个人律师。\n\n问：您是否与Pedolsky先生签署了利益冲突豁免？\n\n官方口译员：您能重复一遍吗？\n\n问：您是否与律师Daniel Pedolsky签署了利益冲突豁免？\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n问：您提到与Golden Spring有两三份——或三四份协议。您能确认其中每一份协议吗？\n\n答：我不确定。\n\n问：您能描述每一份协议的目的是什么吗？\n\n答：来自Golden Spring的那笔贷款是为了与Logan Cheng（程乐志）达成和解。\n\n问：您是否借款支付律师费用，以起诉Logan Cheng？\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n问：除了与Cheng先生有关的协议外，其他协议是什么？\n\n答：来自D.C.——D.C.律师事务所收取的（听不清）。我不记得名字。\n\n第7页，共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日。WOLMAN先生：好的。谢谢，我这次必须走了，但谢谢。我会尽量拨入。CLAIBORN女士：谢谢。请问在线上的任何人能否将自己静音，因为可以听到您打字。好的。还有谁想提问？Harbach先生。请吧，Harbach先生。HARBACH先生（Harbach）：谢谢。为记录在案，我是O'Melveny and Meyers（O'Melveny and Meyers律师事务所）的David Harbach（大卫·哈巴赫），我代表PAACS（PAACS）。由HARBACH先生讯问：问：Kwok先生，我想根据Claiborn女士今天向您提出的问题，问几个澄清性问题。今天早些时候，她问您是否拥有任何外币，您回答没有。她还问您是否拥有任何数字货币，您回答没有。我的问题是，您是否曾代表任何实体下令或指示购买外币或数字货币？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交日期 10/26/23 登记日期 10/26/23 20:46:12 第82页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n官方口译员：您能重复一遍吗？\n\nHARBACH先生：当然。\n\n问：我的问题是，您是否曾代表任何实体下令或指示购买任何外币或任何数字货币？\n\n答：您说的“指示”是什么意思？\n\n问：您是否曾指示任何人购买外币或数字货币？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：Claiborn女士曾就使用信用卡和借记卡向您问了几个问题。我想确保我们清楚您的回答，因为她问的不是您是否拥有任何信用卡，而是您是否可以使用信用卡。我想确保您理解其中的区别。\n\n官方口译员：他只是问，您为什么想代表Holley女士所问的问题。\n\nHARBACH先生：先生，我只是试图提醒您她今天早些时候问过您的一个问题。\n\n私人口译员：我不理解这个问题。\n\nBALDIGA先生：Baldiga先生是对的。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交日期 10/26/23 登记日期 10/26/23 20:46:12 第83页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n目前没有待回答的问题。\n\n问：问题是，您是否理解拥有信用卡与可以使用信用卡之间的区别？\n\n答：我相信我没有。\n\n问：您不理解其中的区别？\n\n答：我不太了解。\n\n问：好的。那么，让我举个例子。我们谈谈Maybach（迈巴赫）。我相信您今天向我们表示，您可以使用迈巴赫作为交通工具。这正确吗？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：但我相信您的立场也是，您并不拥有这辆迈巴赫。对吗？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：换言之，您的立场是，这辆迈巴赫不是您的，对吗？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：好的。我用这个例子来说明拥有某物和可以使用某物之间的区别。这对您有帮助吗？您理解其中的区别吗？\n\n答：现在我理解您了。\n\n问：好的。谢谢。那么回到关于信用卡和借记卡的问题。您是否可以使用任何信用卡或借记卡，无论它们是否属于您？\n\n答：我不理解他所说的区别，即“使用”是指我自己使用，还是让其他人使用。\n\n问：那么我们逐一讨论。先从您自己使用开始。是否曾有任何家庭成员向您提供信用卡或信用卡号码供您自己使用？\n\n答：我从未使用过。\n\n问：您提到的另一个例子可能是您的家庭成员代表您使用信用卡。这种情况是否发生过？\n\n答：您所说的代表我使用是什么意思？\n\n问：我是在问，据您所知，是否曾有任何家庭成员使用信用卡或借记卡为您购买物品？\n\n答：我的儿子、我的女儿、我的妻子。他们都有信用卡为我买东西。\n\n私人口译员：证人没有那样说，即使用信用卡为我买东西。证人说，我的儿子、我的妻子为我买了东西。\n\n第7页，共134页\n\nFiore Reporting and Transcription Service, Inc.（Fiore记录与速记服务公司）\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交日期 10/26/23 登记日期 10/26/23 20:46:12 第85页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n官方口译员：是的，他们使用自己的卡，他们两个——他们所有人都有。他们都有卡。这就是他说的。\n\n（重复口译）\n\n官方口译员：是的，我翻译对了。\n\n证人：所以，我的妻子、我的儿子和我的女儿都有他们自己的卡，其他家庭成员也使用他们的卡为我买东西。\n\n问：这是否曾经是在您的指示下进行的？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：从来没有？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：这是否是应您的要求？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：Yan Ping Wang（王燕平）是否就是Yvette Wang（王艺霏）？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：此前Claiborn女士曾向您询问Golden Spring Hong Kong（Golden Spring Hong Kong）。\n\n您告诉她，您的儿子拥有该公司。您记得吗？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：我的问题是，您的儿子自何时起拥有Golden Spring Hong Kong？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日。问：除您的儿子外，是否还有其他任何人曾拥有Golden Spring Hong Kong的权益？答：我不记得。问：您还说，您不记得自己是否曾担任Golden Spring Hong Kong的公司高级职员？官方口译员：您能重复那一个问题吗？问：您还说，您不记得自己是否曾担任Golden Spring Hong Kong的公司高级职员？这是否意味着您有可能曾担任过，只是您不确定？答：我不记得。问：Claiborn女士曾以几种不同方式询问您，您是否知道Golden Spring New York（Golden Spring New York）如何获得资金或赚钱。Golden Spring自何时起开始支付您的个人生活开支？答：2015年。问：所以大约六或七年？答：自2015年起，当时有一位来自Mainland China（中国大陆）、名叫Bruno Wu（吴征）的人给我的家人、我的儿子、女儿和妻子打电话，所以从那时起，我开始花来自Golden Spring New York的钱。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 2292-48 提交日期 10/26/23 登记日期 10/26/23 20:46:12 第86页，共134页\n\n私人口译员：\n我认为证人说的是一些。\n\n官方口译员：\n什么？\n\n私人口译员：\n我认为证人说的是一些。\n\n证人：\n不包括他们抓到的那个儿子；我的妻子、女儿以及许多家庭成员都被抓了，但不包括我的儿子。\n\n问：\n因此，大约六七年来，Golden Spring（金泉）一直在支付您的个人开支。对吗？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n在那六七年期间，您从未与任何家庭成员讨论过这笔钱的来源吗？\n\n答：\n由于我的许多家庭成员被——被您的委托人 Bruno Wu（吴波）抓捕，因此我没有联系。我无法与他们联系。\n\n私人口译员：\n不完全是。PAACS 的合伙人——该律师所代理的合伙人，PAACS——PAACS 的合伙人——\n\n官方口译员：\n我不知道。他没有提到任何有关 PAACS 的内容。\n\n证人：\n因此，是代理委托人 Bruno Wu（吴波）的另一名律师抓捕了您的许多家庭成员。您委托人过去的合伙人，其中一名合伙人，（听不清）Bruno Wu，并抓捕了您的许多家庭成员，因此您无法与他们联系。\n\n问：\n自 2015 年以来，您是否曾与您的女儿、妻子或儿子联系？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n在您与这三人中任何一人联系的任何时候，您是否曾问过他们 Golden Spring 的钱来自哪里？\n\n答：\n是，我问过。\n\n问：\n您问了谁？\n\n答：\n我问了他们三人。\n\n问：\n他们说了什么？\n\n答：\n他们告诉我，因为我正处于被追捕的境地，所以不要问我们自己的财务信息。不要向我索取任何东西，我们会帮助您——我们会尽可能帮助您。\n\n问：\n那是什么时候？\n\n答：\n2017 年之后。\n\n问：\n2017 年之后多久？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2292-48\nFiled 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n问：\n您与家人进行这次谈话时，他们三人是在一起，还是分别谈话？\n\n答：\n分别谈话。\n\n问：\n他们三人中的每一个人都大致说了同样的话吗？\n\n答：\n类似。\n\n问：\n那么，我想确认我理解正确。您问了他们每一个人 Golden Spring 的钱来自哪里，而他们每一个人都对您说，不要问我这个问题，因为——请替我完成这句话。\n\n答：\n所以您在编造一个我不明白的故事。\n\n问：\n我是在请您帮助我理解。我试图理解，为什么您的家庭成员告诉您不要问，为什么您的家庭成员告诉您不要问 Golden Spring 从哪里得到这笔钱。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n让他问您一个问题。\n\n问：\n请告诉我，为什么您的每一位家庭成员都告诉您不要问他们 Golden Spring 的钱来自哪里？\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n异议。如果您知道。\n\n官方口译员：\n您是在问是否对该问题提出异议？\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n我已经提出异议。\n\n官方口译员：\n哦，您提出了异议。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n如果他知道，我允许他回答。\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。\n\n证人：\n我的女儿和妻子被他的合伙人逮捕，并于 2017 年获释，获释前往纽约。她们遭到共产党极其严重的酷刑。对她们施以酷刑的人是这名律师的合伙人。她们都有各自的律师。她们告诉我，不要问她们或与她们沟通有关她们自身财务和个人信息的事情。您想做任何事情，最好通过律师进行。\n\n这是在她们来到纽约之前，我的家庭成员告诉她们的原则、事情。我只是想告诉您其含义，含义非常相似，但我不能逐字逐句告诉您。\n\n因此，我不希望这名律师就我的女儿——就我女儿的伪造、作伪证编造任何故事。那种故事。\n\n上次我们与 Holley 女士在这里时，他在说谎，说我在使用我的 Twitter 账户，并说纽约的法官是共产党，而我甚至没有 Twitter 账户。\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n为使记录清楚，今天是我第一次在法庭上就本诉讼说出任何一句话。因此，我认为您说的不是我，先生。\n\n证人：\n我是说上次是您办公室的一名律师。您之前的律师叫 Andy Morse（音），因其五年来作出虚假主张而被法官赶出去了。因此，该律师事务所一直在作出虚假主张。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n只回答他的问题，因为除非您只是试图回答他的问题，否则我无法知道是否应当提出异议。\n\n证人：\n我没有单独与我的家人、女儿和妻子谈话，说同样的话。如果我说是同一件事、同样的话，那就是在编造虚假故事。\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n我明白。\n\n证人：\n您不能使用您的想象力并把它放进我的脑中。这就是为什么纽约南区的法院和法官被他们（听不清）并给我作出了错误的量刑。\n\n身份不明者：\n您能说一下最后那——\n\n证人：\n由于他们的虚假主张，所以纽约南区的法官给我作出了错误的量刑。\n\n私人口译员：\n此外，口译员此前没有完整翻译律师就其异议向证人作出的指示。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n如果您想重复，请继续。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n我认为您只需要听这些问题，并且只回答这些问题。\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n抱歉。律师将转向另一个话题。\n\nHARBACH 先生询问：\n\n问：\nKwok 先生，Claiborn 女士今天问过您，您欠 Golden Spring 的一笔 $21 million 债务。她问您，这 2100 万中的多少是律师费，您的回答是“我认为大部分是”。我想知道您所说的“大部分”是什么意思。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23 Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 Page 93\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n问：\n您的意思是 $11 million，还是接近 $21 million？\n\n答：\n我不记得。\n\n问：\n您是否仍然认为其中大部分是律师费？\n\n答：\n我不记得。\n\n问：\n您还提到了 Logan Cheng（郑乐根）和解，以及与该和解有关的从 Golden Spring 借入的款项。\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n该笔贷款金额是多少？\n\n答：\n我不完全记得。大概像是 200。两——$300,000。\n\n问：\nGolden Spring 该笔贷款的条款是什么？\n\n答：\n我不记得。\n\n问：\n当 Claiborn 女士问您是否曾去过 Golden Spring 在纽约的办公室时，您回答说去过。那些办公室的地址是什么？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n那些办公室的地址是什么？\n\n答：\n64th Street, 162。\n\n问：\n您还提到，您上一次去那里是在昨天，去那里的原因是为今天的会议作准备。您在那里见了谁？\n\n答：\n我的律师。\n\n问：\n当您在办公室时，除您的律师外，您是否还与其他任何人为准备今天的会议而会面？\n\n答：\n我不知道您所说的其他人是什么意思。\n\n问：\n那么，您是否与任何为 Golden Spring 工作的人会面？\n\n答：\n是，我见了 Yvonne Wang（王雪）。\n\n问：\n这是昨天的事吗？\n\n答：\n是，我昨天见了她。\n\n问：\n您昨天问了她一些问题吗？\n\n答：\n没有。\n\n问：\n请告诉我您与 Wang 女士的谈话内容？\n\n答：\n您是什么意思？\n\n问：\n那么，我想知道您和她谈了什么。\n\n答：\n我让她安排吃的食物和咖啡。\n\n问：\n就这些吗？\n\n答：\n此外，我们谈论了如何废除共产党。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n问：\n我想确认我理解正确。我认为您说——\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n对不起。我能再听一遍最后那句话吗？\n\n证人：\n我们谈论了如何废除共产党。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n谢谢。\n\n问：\nWang 女士是 Golden Spring 的高级职员，对吗？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n而且您指示她拿咖啡来，对吗？\n\n答：\n不，我没有指示她。我只是希望她拿些咖啡来。\n\n问：\n您是希望还是帮助？\n\n答：\n帮助。\n\n问：\n您是在帮助。因为我问您的问题是，您与 Wang 女士谈了什么。我以为您说您让她拿些咖啡来，或者甚至告诉她拿些咖啡来。\n\n答：\n不，您的律师办公室——您的律师办公室又在编造和想象事情。\n\n问：\n我再问一次这个问题。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n请问一个问题。不要把话塞进他嘴里。\n\n问：\n您昨天与 Wang 女士谈了什么？\n\n答：\n您想让我详细谈吗？我可以谈上几个小时。\n\n问：\n嗯，不，如果细节涉及如何推翻中国共产党。因此我会更准确一些。\n\n答：\n所以您不希望我们废除中国共产党。我们的工作是废除中国共产党。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n只回答问题。\n\n证人：\n您没有问题。您只是在指示某件事。\n\n问：\n我有时分段说话，以便让口译员翻译。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n我认为，如果您只问问题，然后证人——我会指示他回答您的问题。那会有帮助。\n\n问：\n您昨天是否与 Yvette [原文如此] 讨论过任何与准备今天会议有关的事情？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n您讨论了什么？\n\n答：\n我让她把那些文件带到这里来。\n\n问：\n还有别的吗？\n\n答：\n我不记得。\n\n问：\nLamp Capital（蓝普资本）是什么时候成立的？\n\n答：\n我不知道。\n\n问：\n为什么成立 Lamp Capital？\n\n答：\n我不知道。\n\n问：\n谁成立了 Lamp Capital？\n\n答：\n我的儿子。\n\n问：\n您怎么知道？\n\n答：\n因为我向我儿子借钱支付律师费。\n\n问：\n问题是，您怎么知道您的儿子成立了 Lamp Capital？\n\n答：\n因为我儿子说的。\n\n问：\n是他亲自告诉您的。\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n他是否曾向您征询过是否成立 Lamp Capital 的任何建议？\n\n答：\n没有。\n\n问：\n他是否曾询问您对于他是否应成立 Lamp Capital 的意见？\n\n答：\n没有。\n\n问：\n他是否告诉您他为什么要成立 Lamp Capital？\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23 Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 Page 98\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n答：\n没有。\n\n问：\n当您谈到您对 Boise Schiller（博伊斯·席勒律师事务所）的律师失职索赔时，您提到某个人，您一直称其为“他”。我想知道那个人是谁？\n\n答：\n我不知道您是什么意思。\n\n问：\n是的，那是一个不好的问题。我道歉。您陈述说，有人未经您的许可向法院提交了虚假文件。此人威胁您的家人，此人在饮酒后威胁您，并且此人给您和您的家人带来许多损失，包括在向法官提交文件之前未提供翻译文件。我的问题是，那个人是谁？\n\n答：\nSchiller。Schiller 律师。\n\n问：\n那么，是 Boise Schiller 律师事务所的 Schiller 先生。我说得对吗？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n谢谢。您是否了解 Lamp Capital 所从事的业务（如有）？\n\n答：\n不了解。\n\n问：\n换个话题。您今天在回答中数次说到，我身后的人做了某些事情。\n\n2 问：你在说谁？\n\n3 答：我身后有一个人，是一名叫 Bruno Wu（吴征）的老板。\n\n4 他支付了那起案件——来自（听不清）的强奸案。\n\n5 强奸案。此外，这里还有一名债权人，其费用也是由 Bruno Wu 支付的。\n\n6 那笔律师费由 Bruno Wu 支付。\n\n7 Bruno Wu 也是他的合伙人，并且他投资了 \\$800 million。\n\n8 Bruno Wu 的合伙人也是一名（听不清）前任官员，他们正在调查，并且他们\n\n9 与他们的一名合伙人联合调查我的案件。\n\n10 因此，2017 年 4 月 18 日，这个（听不清）\n\n11 开始起诉我，提起诉讼。在这 24\n\n12 小时内，Bruno Wu 向我发送红色通知，他们\n\n13 开始提起诉讼。\n\n14 HARBACH 先生（哈巴赫先生）：我能否制止——\n\n15 证人：中国共产党\n\n16 制止了对我的采访，即 VOA 采访。\n\n17 它们发生在同一时间。\n\n18 HARBACH 先生：或者我可以让他继续说。\n\n19 证人：这家律师事务所制作的所有文件\n\n20 都是虚假的。他们向 Southern District of New York（纽约南区）法院提交了一份\n\n21 虚假文件。他们甚至对我女儿的\n\n22 游艇提出虚假主张。那艘船是我的。他们向法官请求\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022 年 4 月 6 日 第 134 页之第 1 页\n\n1 Southern District Court（纽约南区法院）提出请求，而我两次申请\n\n2 破产——个人破产案件，并且那一天——他们（听不清）\n\n3 两次，包括 Holley 女士（霍利女士）。\n\n4 Holley 女士在场。\n\n5 第一次 Holley 女士在法庭上\n\n6 在场时，他们作了虚假证词，说——并且\n\n7 他们说我女儿就 Sherry（雪莉）破产案作了虚假证词，因为我女儿从未\n\n8 参与该案件。\n\n9 Holley 女士在那里，在第二次开庭日期也在场。\n\n10 Holley 女士当时也在那里。这家律师事务所的\n\n11 律师正在向法官陈述，\n\n12 他们说我使用 Twitter 账户——并且\n\n13 他们说，在 Twitter 上，我说\n\n14 纽约南区法官是共产党\n\n15 成员。\n\n16 你可以看到我身后的所有人，\n\n17 其中一人是 Bruno Wu，一人支付了许多案件的费用——\n\n18 HARBACH 先生：我想问另一个\n\n19 问题。\n\n20 由 HARBACH 先生提问：\n\n21 问：你是否知悉，无论以何种方式，你的破产代理律师、Brown Rudnick（布朗·鲁德尼克律师事务所）\n\n22 此前是否曾代理 Bruno Wu？\n\n第 134 页之第 1 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 法院官方口译员：我能否休息\n\n2 一会儿？我实在无法像之前那样集中注意力。\n\n3 内容太多了。我能休息一下吗？\n\n4 CLAIBORN 女士（克莱伯恩女士）：我能否请你先问完那个\n\n5 问题，然后我们休息？\n\n6 法院官方口译员：可以。你能否\n\n7 重复那个问题？\n\n8 HARBACH 先生：当然可以。\n\n9 问：你是否知悉，无论以何种方式，\n\n10 你的破产代理律师、Brown Rudnick\n\n11 律师事务所此前是否代理过 Bruno Wu？\n\n12 法院官方口译员：你是说代理\n\n13 其他人？\n\n14 HARBACH 先生：是的。Bruno Wu。\n\n15 答：不知道。\n\n16 CLAIBORN 女士：我们将短暂\n\n17 休庭。我们将在 2:45 回到这里。\n\n18 （休庭）\n\n19 CLAIBORN 女士：好的。短暂休庭后，我们现在恢复\n\n20 记录。\n\n21 Harbach 先生，请继续。\n\n22 HARBACH 先生：谢谢。\n\n23 由 HARBACH 先生提问：\n\n24 问：Kwok 女士，在你面前的文件中，\n\n25 本案提交的文件 78。\n\n第 134 页之第 1 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 法院官方口译员：哪一份文件？\n\n2 这一份？\n\n3 HARBACH 先生：是。抱歉。律师\n\n4 告知我，你们的副本没有盖章。\n\n5 问：我说的是你们的 Official Form 106（官方表格 106）。\n\n6 因此，我的问题从第 9 页开始，该页\n\n7 包含一个标题，即 Schedule D（附表 D），即对财产享有担保债权的\n\n8 债权人。你跟上了吗？\n\n9 你是否勾选了“是”框。并且被\n\n10 指引至 Schedule D，所以请你翻到\n\n11 那里。它在第 18 页。\n\n12 BALDIGA 先生（巴尔迪加先生）：标题是什么？他\n\n13 也许通过标题更容易找到。\n\n14 HARBACH 先生：好的。那是一个小表格，\n\n15 即 Schedule D，是一份\n\n16 拥有担保债权的债权人清单。\n\n17 由 HARBACH 先生提问：\n\n18 问：Kwok 先生，你会看到 Golden Spring New York Limited（金泉纽约有限公司）\n\n19 有五项单独的条目。\n\n20 每一栏的数据在全部五行中完全相同。\n\n21 因此，我的问题是，为什么该附表中有五项\n\n22 相同的条目？\n\n23 问题是，为什么有五项\n\n第 134 页之第 1 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022 年 4 月 6 日 相同的条目列在该附表中？\n\n答：我不知道“五项”是什么意思——\n\n问：嗯，每一行完全相同。我只是想问，为什么有五行信息相同？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：你提交的那些文件中有一些具体说明，其中一项说明涉及 Taconic Road 的住所。\n\nHARBACH 先生：为便于律师查阅，我指的是文件 77，第 4 页。\n\n法院官方口译员：哪一页？\n\nHARBACH 先生：第 4 页。\n\n法院官方口译员：84？\n\nHARBACH 先生：不是，第 4 页。\n\n法院官方口译员：哦，第 4 页。好的。\n\n由 HARBACH 先生提问：\n\n问：我的问题与其说是关于确切文字，不如说是关于实质内容。因此，第一个问题是，与 Taconic Road House（塔科尼克路房屋）相关的所有费用是否都由家庭成员和家庭控制的企业直接支付？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：好的。哪些家庭成员？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23\n第 134 页之第 104 页 Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022 年 4 月 6 日 103\n\n1 答：我妻子，有时由我儿子支付。\n\n2 问：哪些家庭控制的企业？\n\n3 答：哪个国家——我妻子。\n\n4 问：你妻子不是企业。我想\n\n5 问的是，哪些家庭控制的企业支付\n\n6 Taconic House（塔科尼克房屋）的费用？\n\n7 答：Greenwich LLC（格林威治有限责任公司）。\n\n8 问：好的。顺带一问，你如何知道\n\n9 你妻子以及有时你儿子支付这些费用？\n\n10 答：因为我住在那里。\n\n11 问：你观察到他们支付这些费用吗？\n\n12 答：是。\n\n13 问：这是否曾经是应你的要求？\n\n14 答：我不记得我要求过任何事情。\n\n15 问：Greenwich Land LLC（格林威治土地有限责任公司）——是，Greenwich\n\n16 Land LLC 除 373\n\n17 Taconic Road 外是否拥有其他不动产？\n\n18 答：我不知道。\n\n19 问：你是否知道位于 Connecticut（康涅狄格州）Cos Cob（科斯科布）33 Ferncliff（芬克利夫街 33 号）的房产？\n\n20 法院官方口译员：你能重复\n\n21 一下吗？\n\n22 HARBACH 先生：可以。\n\n23 问：Connecticut 州 Cos Cob 的 33 Ferncliff。\n\n24 法院官方口译员：31，对吗？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 HARBACH 先生：不是，33。\n\n2 答：是，现在我想起来了。它也是由\n\n3 我妻子的公司拥有。\n\n4 问：就是 Greenwich Land 吗？\n\n5 答：也许。\n\n6 问：你知道吗？\n\n7 答：我不确定。\n\n8 问：你曾去过 33 Ferncliff 吗？\n\n9 答：去过。\n\n10 问：最近一次是什么时候？\n\n11 答：没有。\n\n12 不是最近。\n\n13 问：你知道 Greenwich Land 是何时购买\n\n14 33 Ferncliff 的吗？\n\n15 答：我不记得。\n\n16 问：你知道大约花了\n\n17 多少钱吗？\n\n18 答：可能超过 \\$1 million。\n\n19 问：\\$1.37 million 听起来大致正确吗？\n\n20 答：我不确定。\n\n21 问：大约在 September, 2019 的购买日期\n\n22 对你而言听起来大致正确吗？\n\n23 答：不确定。\n\n24 问：暂时回到 373 Taconic。\n\n25 该房产的购买价格是多少？\n\n答：可能是 400 至 500 万。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 私人口译员：不，不，不。\n\n2 法院官方口译员：400 万至 500 万。\n\n3 抱歉。\n\n4 问：如果你知道，373\n\n5 Taconic 的大致购买时间？\n\n6 答：我不知道。\n\n7 问：你曾居住在 33 Ferncliff 吗？\n\n8 答：没有。\n\n9 问：你知道目前是否有人住\n\n10 在那里吗？\n\n11 答：之前可能有另一位同志，你\n\n12 知道，他是脱离中国共产党的，\n\n13 他住在那里。\n\n14 问：多久以前？\n\n15 答：可能是一至两年前。\n\n16 问：你记得那个人的名字吗？\n\n17 答：记得。\n\n18 问：是什么？\n\n19 答：Wong Din Gong（王定公，读音）。\n\n20 问：如果你知道，目前是否有人住在那里？\n\n21 答：我不知道。\n\n22 问：谈到 373 Taconic，购买该房产的\n\n23 资金来自哪里？\n\n24 答：我不知道。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 问：你知道该房屋是\n\n2 以现金购买还是通过融资购买的吗？\n\n3 答：我不知道。\n\n4 问：33 Ferncliff 也是同样的问题。你\n\n5 知道购买那栋房屋的资金来自\n\n6 哪里吗？\n\n7 答：我听说是以现金购买的。\n\n8 问：从谁那里——抱歉。你是从谁那里听说\n\n9 的？\n\n10 答：我不记得。\n\n11 问：你知道那笔资金来自哪里吗？\n\n12 答：我不知道。\n\n13 问：你知道 Saraca Media Group（萨拉卡媒体集团）是什么吗？\n\n14 答：Saraca（萨拉卡）？\n\n15 问：Saraca。\n\n16 答：Saraca Media Group。我知道。\n\n17 问：Sirraca Media Group 是什么？\n\n18 答：就是 Saraca。它是一家公司。\n\n19 问：什么类型的公司？\n\n20 答：我不确定。\n\n21 问：你个人曾与 Saraca 有任何\n\n22 关系吗？\n\n23 答：没有。\n\n24 问：你知道 Saraca 所从事的\n\n25 业务类型吗？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 答：我记得他们与 GTV Media platform（GTV 媒体平台）\n\n2 有关，或者他们投资了 GTV Media\n\n3 platform。\n\n4 问：你如何知道？\n\n5 答：因为我是他们的顾问，由谁拥有该顾问。\n\n6 而且我是 GTV 的主持人。这也是\n\n7 脱离共产党人士的一个投入和平台。\n\n8 问：你刚才说你是顾问时，\n\n9 是为 Saraca 还是为 GTV？\n\n10 答：GTV。\n\n11 问：Saraca 是否曾经——是否曾与 162\n\n12 East 64th Street（东 64 街 162 号）这一地址有关联？\n\n13 法院官方口译员：哪个地址？\n\n14 你能重复一下吗？\n\n15 问：可以。162 East 64th Street。问题\n\n16 是 Saraca 是否曾与该\n\n17 地址有关联？\n\n18 答：我不知道。\n\n19 问：那是 family office（家族办公室）的地址，\n\n20 对吗？\n\n21 答：那是其中之一。\n\n22 问：其他地址在哪里？\n\n23 答：我不知道。\n\n24 问：New York City（纽约市）还有其他地址吗？\n\n第 134 页之第 1 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 答：我想澄清一下。Golden Spring 是\n\n2 位于这栋大楼，即 162 号内的公司之一。\n\n3 问：明白了，谢谢。\n\n4 在对你的询问中，我们提到了家族办公室，我想明确一下。当\n\n5 我们谈到家族办公室时，我们指的是\n\n6 East 64th Street 上的那个地址吗？\n\n7 答：是。\n\n8 问：GTV 是否曾与\n\n9 家族办公室地址有关联？\n\n10 答：我不知道。\n\n11 问：谁拥有 Saraca？\n\n12 答：我儿子。\n\n13 问：从何时起？\n\n14 答：我不知道。\n\n15 问：Saraca 目前是否存在？\n\n16 答：我不知道。\n\n17 问：你是否有任何概念——你是否\n\n18 知道 Saraca 资产的价值？\n\n19 答：我不知道。\n\n20 问：你知道 Saraca 向 GTV 支付的\n\n21 款项吗？\n\n22 答：不，我不知道。\n\n23 问：你妻子是否曾告诉你，Saraca 向\n\n24 Greenwich Land 支付过任何数百万美元的款项？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23 Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 第 110 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022 年 4 月 6 日 109\n\n1 Greenwich Land？\n\n2 答：我不知道。\n\n3 问：你不知道她是否曾告诉过你，还是你不知道这些付款？\n\n4 答：她从未告诉我，我甚至不知道\n\n5 金额是多少。\n\n6 问：你知道一家名为 Ziba Limited（齐巴有限公司）、Z-I-B-A 的公司吗？\n\n7 法院官方口译员：Ziba，Z-I-B-A？\n\n8 HARBACH 先生：是。\n\n9 答：我不知道。\n\n10 问：如果我已经问过这个问题，抱歉。\n\n11 Saraca 与 GTV 之间如有任何关系，\n\n12 是什么？\n\n13 答：Saraca 是 GTV 的投资者。\n\n14 问：你知道 Saraca 向 GTV 投资了\n\n15 多少钱吗？\n\n16 答：我不知道。\n\n17 问：GTV 是何时成立的？\n\n18 答：2020 年。也许是 2019 年。不太确定。\n\n19 问：你知道 Saraca 的任何高管或董事\n\n20 的姓名吗？\n\n21 答：我不知道。\n\n22 问：你知道 Yvette Wang（叶薇特·王）是否是 Saraca 的\n\n23 高管或董事吗？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 答 我不知道。\n2 问 你认识一个叫 Hong Chung Wang（王洪忠）的人吗？\n3 \n4 答 认识。\n5 问 他是谁？\n6 答 他是我的合伙人，也是脱离共产党的\n7 同志。\n8 问 他是你的朋友吗？\n9 答 朋友、同志和合伙人。\n10 问 你所说的合伙人是什么意思？\n11 答 因为我们有一家商业公司。\n12 问 请你谈谈那家公司。\n13 答 嗯，我不记得那家公司的名称。\n14 那是一家调查美国共产党\n15 洗钱和犯罪的公司。\n16 \n17 问 那是一家营利性公司吗？\n18 答 我不知道。\n19 问 你不知道？\n20 答 我不知道。\n21 问 公司的名称是什么？\n22 答 我用英语说时不记得了。\n23 我不记得名称。\n24 问 你与 Hong Chung Wang 在这家公司担任\n25 合伙人大约是在什么时间段？\n\n案号 22-50073 文书 2292-48 提交于 10/26/23\n录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 我不记得。\n2 问 在过去三年内？\n3 答 肯定是在三年多以前。\n4 问 超过十年？\n5 答 不是。\n6 问 Hong Chung Wang 是否曾与 Saraca（萨拉卡）有任何\n7 关联？\n8 答 我不知道。\n9 问 他是否曾担任 Saraca 的高级职员或董事？\n10 \n11 答 我不知道。\n12 问 GTV 中的 G 代表什么？\n13 答 上帝。\n目标，就像——G-O-A-L。\n14 问 英语单词“goal”？\n15 答 是。\n目标或上帝。\n16 问 好的。\n你认识 Hong Chong\n17 Wang 多久了？\n18 答 我不记得。\n19 问 超过十年？\n20 答 大致如此。\n21 问 你如今仍认为他是朋友吗？\n22 \n23 答 是。\n24 HARBACH 先生：\n请稍等。\n25 问 今天有很多问题涉及\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 Golden Spring（金泉）为你的生活费用提供资金。\n2 就你的生活费用而言，\n3 其中没有任何款项预期需要偿还，\n4 这是否正确？\n5 答 是的，正确。\n6 问 因此，这些款项并非任何正式协议的\n7 标的，对吗？\n8 答 不是。\n9 问 那么，这些款项实质上是\n10 赠予你的礼物，对吗？\n11 答 是。\n12 问 什么是 Rule of Law Foundation（法治基金会）？\n13 答 这是什么意思？\n14 问 问题是它是什么？\n15 官方口译员：\n法治\n16 基金会？\n17 HARBACH 先生：\n是的，先生。\n18 官方口译员：\n我没有听清\n19 。\n你能换一种方式问吗？\n20 问 有一个实体叫作——\n21 官方口译员：\n哦。\n22 问 ——法治基金会。\n23 官方口译员：\n好的。\n24 HARBACH 先生：\n我希望通过直接问这个问题来节省一些\n25 时间。\n\n案号 22-50073 文书 2292-48\n提交于 10/26/23\n录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 你了解法治基金会吗？\n2 \n3 答 是。\n4 问 你是否参与了其设立？\n5 答 是。\n6 问 该基金会成立时，你是否向其捐过钱？\n7 \n8 答 不是我本人。\n9 问 你是否指示任何实体向\n10 法治基金会捐款？\n11 答 建议与指示之间有任何\n12 区别——\n13 问 如果是建议，请告诉我那是建议。\n14 \n15 答 我没有指示任何人，也没有命令任何人。\n16 我只是一直建议人们向\n17 基金会捐款。\n18 私人口译员：\n作为一名\n19 口译员，我认为，如果证人向口译员提问，\n20 口译员应当翻译证人提出的问题，\n21 而不是回答该问题。\n22 \n23 官方口译员：\n我可以回答\n24 任何事情。\n25 私人口译员：\n证人说\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 你是在谈论那个（听不清）\n\n2 官方口译员：\n这就是为什么我\n3 把问题转达给律师。\n4 私人口译员：\n你回答他\n5 “是”，然后你再说那些。\n6 官方口译员：\n哦，看在上帝的份上。\n7 我没有说——我漏掉了什么吗？\n8 （口译。）\n9 官方口译员：\n好的。没有\n10 问题。他说没有问题未获回答。\n11 HARBACH 先生提问：\n12 问 你是否曾建议你的任何家庭成员\n13 向法治基金会捐款？\n14 \n15 答 是，我确实建议过。\n16 问 你的任何家庭成员或者由家庭控制的企业\n17 是否向法治基金会捐过钱？\n18 \n19 答 是。\n20 问 多少钱？\n21 答 现金有一笔——超过 \\$1 million。\n22 来自香港、日本和中国大陆——\n23 合计应当超过 30\n24 million。\n25 问 暂时只关注\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 根据你的建议由你的家庭作出的捐款。\n2 大约是多少钱？\n3 答 我不知道细节。由于\n4 安全原因，他们不想让我知道。\n5 问 你刚才是否说过你的家庭\n6 捐赠了超过一百万美元？\n7 答 一百万现金在纽约这里。\n8 问 那是什么时候？\n9 答 我不记得。\n10 问 原因是——嗯，让我这样问。\n11 你是否向你的家庭成员建议过\n12 他们应向法治基金会捐赠的金额？\n13 \n14 答 我希望他们捐得越多越好。\n15 问 你是这样告诉他们的吗？\n16 答 是。\n17 问 你是否知道法治基金会\n18 是否与位于 64th Street 的家族办公室地址有关联？\n19 \n20 答 是。\n21 问 你是否曾于 2018年11月向法治基金会\n22 捐赠 \\$100 million？\n23 官方口译员：\n你能再重复\n24 一次吗？\n25 问 你是否曾捐赠 \\$100 million\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n答 于 2018年11月向法治基金会捐赠 \\$100 million？答 没有。在直播中，就像我想要——试图在直播节目中募集资金。问 你是否曾——BALDIGA 先生：等等。那是他完整的回答吗？官方口译员：是。有什么问题吗？私人口译员：不完全是证人所说的内容。（听不清）广播可以。直播可以。但募集资金——官方口译员：请求捐款，对吗？（口译。）私人口译员：筹集——证人：筹集资金，筹集捐款。是的，在直播广播中，或者不管怎样，你知道，请求捐款来——你知道，筹集资金，筹集金钱。问 你是否曾承诺向 Rule of Law Fund（法治基金）捐赠 \\$1 billion？官方口译员：你说的是 10 billion？HARBACH 先生：不是，先生。1 billion。\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 官方口译员：\n哦，一\n2 billion。\n3 答 我不记得。我不记得。\n4 问 你的意思是，你有可能\n5 作出过该承诺？\n6 答 如果我们联合世界各地的组织，\n7 我们可以达到那个目标。\n8 问 明白。这是一个简单的问题。我\n9 只是不知道答案。\n10 你本人是否曾承诺向法治基金\n11 捐赠 \\$1 billion？\n12 答 在过去五年里，我进行了超过 5,000 次\n13 直播。有些直播\n14 可能长达四或五小时。我很难\n15 记住我说过的每一句话。\n16 问 嗯，我明白，但我只是在问\n17 一个问题。即，你是否曾公开、\n18 私下或以任何方式承诺捐赠\n19 \\$1 billion 给法治基金？\n20 私人口译员：\n他说的不是\n21 投资。\n22 HARBACH 先生：\n捐赠。\n23 官方口译员：\n是，捐赠。\n24 答 我不记得。\n25 问 我再问一次这个问题。\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日 共 134 页\n\n1 你是说，你有可能\n\n2 作出过这样的承诺。你只是不确定？\n3 答 在 Holley 女士面前，我不会说\n4 任何事情都有可能，但这是一个非常严重的\n5 问题。现在他们又开始搞这个阴谋。\n6 问 嗯，这不是问你三天前早餐吃了什么。\n7 这是在问你是否承诺\n8 捐赠 \\$1 billion；如果答案是你不知道，\n9 那也可以。\n10 BALDIGA 先生：\n我认为这一直就是\n11 回答。\n12 HARBACH 先生：\n不，回答一直是“我\n13 不记得”。\n14 BALDIGA 先生：\n不记得。\n15 HARBACH 先生：\n是的，先生。这有一点\n16 不同。\n17 问 因此，答案可能是否定的，但你没有\n18 说“不”。你说你不记得。\n19 答 我说了三次，我不记得。\n20 BALDIGA 先生：\n没有问题——\n21 答 因为在过去五年里，\n22 （听不清）一直为我作出这类回答，\n23 所以南区法院的法官被你们愚弄了，而你们又开始——\n24 \n25 问 我继续。\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日 共 134 页\n\n答 在南区法院，我只见过法官 20 秒。在这五年内，我没有说过一句话，而我被罚款总计约 \\$300 million，因为那就是他们所做的。BALDIGA 先生：好。停下来。等一个问题，然后我们回答这个问题。HARBACH 先生：Bill，我感谢你的耐心。我继续。BALDIGA 先生：请翻译我所说的话。官方口译员：你能重复一下吗？每个人都同时在说话。BALDIGA 先生：问一个问题，他就会回答一个问题。问 在过去两年中，你是否向法治基金会作过任何捐赠？答 是我本人，对吗？问 是的，先生。答 没有。问 在过去两年中，你是否曾建议你的任何家人向法治基金会捐款？答 我不记得。问 如果你实际上并没有那笔钱，你是否会曾承诺\n\n共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 向法治基金会捐赠 \\$1 billion？\n2 \n3 BALDIGA 先生：\n对问题形式提出异议。\n4 官方口译员：\n我没有听清\n5 。你能再重复一次吗？\n6 问 如果你实际上没有那笔钱，\n7 你是否会曾承诺向法治基金会\n8 捐赠 \\$1 billion。\n9 BALDIGA 先生：\n而且我提出了异议。\n10 HARBACH 先生：\n然后 Bill 提出了异议。\n11 官方口译员：\n他说你是\n12 ——想判我死刑吗？\n13 问 Lady May（梅夫人号）大约值\n14 多少钱？\n15 答 我不知道。\n16 问 在你登上 Lady May 的这些年中，\n17 你大约多少次邀请朋友加入你？\n18 \n19 官方口译员：\n你能再重复\n20 一次那个问题吗？\n21 HARBACH 先生：\n可以。\n22 问 在你登上 Lady May 的这些年中，\n23 你大约多少次邀请朋友出来加入你？\n24 BALDIGA 先生：\n等等。\n\n案号 22-50073 文书 2292-48\n提交于 10/26/23\n录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 HARBACH 先生：\n抱歉，Bill。\n2 BALDIGA 先生：\nDavid，你即将就 Lady May 相关问题进行\n3 证言录取。你可以选择\n4 今天或到那时。哪一个都可以。\n5 HARBACH 先生：\n这是一个公平的观点。我\n6 继续。\n7 BALDIGA 先生：\n好的。没有问题。\n8 HARBACH 先生：\n如果我可以再次请律师注意\n9 文件 77。我想重点谈第\n10 19 题。\n11 问 Kwok 先生，你读完\n12 那个问题时告诉我。这是第 19 题。\n13 （停顿。）\n14 答 读完了。\n15 问 好的。为了记录起见，\n16 该问题写道，在你申请\n17 破产前十年内，你是否向一项自设信托\n18 或类似安排转移过任何财产，而你是该信托或安排的\n19 受益人？\n20 答 没有。\n21 问 而这确实是你在表格上勾选的内容。\n22 我要问你的是，如果你把——如果将\n23 “你”一词改为作为受益人的家庭成员，\n24 答案会是什么？\n25 BALDIGA 先生：\n异议。\n\n案号 22-50073 文书 2292-48\n提交于 10/26/23\n录入于 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 答\n我无法回答带有“如果”的问题。\n\n2 问\n我换一种问法。\n\n3 哈巴赫先生（Harbach）：\n杰克（Jack），请你\n\n4 稍微耐心一点。\n\n5 问\n在你申请破产前十年内，你是否将任何财产转移至一项自益信托\n\n6 或类似安排，而你的家庭成员\n\n7 是该信托或安排的受益人？\n\n8 \n\n9 答\n没有。\n\n10 问\n继续看同一份文件，\n\n11 翻到第27题。你读完后\n\n12 请告诉我，先生。\n\n13 （停顿。）\n\n14 答\n好的。我读完了。\n\n15 问\n那么你可以看到，你在\n\n16 “是”字旁边的方框内打了勾。说明随后写道：\n\n17 勾选上方所有适用项，并填写下方\n\n18 每项业务的详细信息。\n\n19 哈巴赫先生：\n杰克，你看到那里了吗？\n\n20 \n\n21 官方口译员：\n我没有看到\n\n22 那里。\n\n23 哈巴赫先生：\n下一项——霍利（Holley）可以给你看。\n\n24 （停顿。）\n\n25 哈巴赫先生：\n我刚才只是向\n\n第 页，共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 证人指出——为方便译员，\n\n2 我再说一遍。\n\n3 问\n在勾选“是”的方框旁边，\n\n4 说明写道：勾选上方所有适用项，并\n\n5 填写下方每项业务的详细信息。上方\n\n6 没有任何方框被勾选，这就是我的问题。\n\n7 对于你列出的那三个主体中的\n\n8 每一个，应当勾选哪个或哪些方框？\n\n9 答\n我无法确定是哪一个。\n\n10 问\n这是你需要更多时间\n\n11 才能弄清楚的事情，还是你就是不知道答案？\n\n12 答\n我可以逐个回答。\n\n13 问\n好的。那我们就这样做。先从\n\n14 Genever（吉尼弗）开始。\n\n15 答\n哪一个 Genever？\n\n16 问\n嗯，所列的是 Genever\n\n17 Holdings Corporation（吉尼弗控股公司）。\n\n18 对于 Genever Holdings Corporation，\n\n19 你会勾选其中哪个方框，如有的话？\n\n20 答\n它曾经——它曾是 LLC（有限责任公司）的成员。\n\n21 上述项目不适用，应转至第12项\n\n22 ——转至12项。\n\n23 它过去是一家有限责任公司。\n\n24 问\n你是说，你会勾选\n\n25 “有限责任公司成员”这一方框，但应使用\n\n第 页，共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 124\n\n1 过去时？\n\n2 答 是。曾经是。\n\n3 问 其他任何方框是否适用于你与\n\n4 Genever Holdings Corporation 的关系？\n\n5 答 最后一行似乎适用于\n\n6 我。我不是很确定。\n\n7 问 最后一行是指持有公司\n\n8 至少百分之五有表决权证券或股权证券的\n\n9 所有人？\n\n10 答 我在很短的一段时间内持有50 percent。\n\n11 问 好的。那 Shiny Time（闪耀时光）呢？\n\n12 \n\n13 答 Shiny Time 已经不存在了。\n\n14 问 我明白。它存续期间，\n\n15 其中哪些方框是准确的？\n\n16 答 第一个。\n\n17 问 独资经营者？\n\n18 答 是。\n\n19 问 其他任何项呢？\n\n20 答 不确定。\n\n21 问 好的。那 Well Origin Limited（威尔起源有限公司）呢？\n\n22 答 它已经不存在了。\n\n23 问 好的。不过还是同一个问题。其中\n\n24 哪些方框在它存续期间适用？\n\n25 答 第一个。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 其他任何项呢？\n\n2 答 不确定。\n\n3 问 关于这个问题最后一点。\n\n4 对于 Genever Holdings Corporation，\n\n5 业务存续日期的栏位是空白的。\n\n6 你知道那些日期应当是什么吗？\n\n7 答 2015。大概是3月、4月到6月、\n\n8 7月。\n\n9 问 哪一年？\n\n10 答 2015。\n\n11 问 所以，大约从3月或4月直到\n\n12 大约7月，均在2015年？\n\n13 答 是。\n\n14 问 好的。那是否是\n\n15 该公司存续的全部期间？\n\n16 答 我在该公司待了几个月，在\n\n17 这段期间，几个月，并持有——\n\n18 ——股份。并且我离开后，该公司仍然存在。\n\n19 \n\n20 问 我明白。它现在是否仍然存在\n\n21 ？\n\n22 答 我相信它仍然存在。\n\n23 问 好的。你在哪一年结婚？\n\n24 答 1918——或者1985。\n\n25 问 你的儿子是哪一年出生的？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 1986。\n\n2 问 先生，你多大年龄？\n\n3 答 54。\n\n4 问 你的家人开始与 Uda Property Company（宇达地产公司）\n\n5 合作时，你儿子多大？\n\n6 答 11岁。哦，五岁——五岁。\n\n7 问 所以，大约是在1991年，\n\n8 你的家人开始与 Uda\n\n9 合作？\n\n10 答 是。\n\n11 问 Henan Uda Hotel（河南宇达酒店）何时建成？\n\n12 答 1997年。\n\n13 问 那么 Uda International Trade\n\n14 Center（宇达国际贸易中心）呢？它何时建成？\n\n15 答 大致在同一时间。\n\n16 问 在你本案的声明中，\n\n17 你称那两个项目都是成功的事业。\n\n18 答 是。\n\n19 问 那使你的家人开始积累\n\n20 大量财富。\n\n21 答 是。\n\n22 问 那么，考虑到这是在90年代初，\n\n23 那些事业大约为你的家人带来了\n\n24 多少钱？\n\n25 答 我不记得。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 超过 $50 million？\n\n2 官方口译员：\n50还是15？\n\n3 哈巴赫先生：\n5-0。\n\n4 官方口译员：\n哦，好的。\n\n5 答 我不记得。\n\n6 问 那么 Pengu Plaza（彭古广场）呢？它何时\n\n7 建成？\n\n8 答 2008年7月。\n\n9 问 那么，在90年代初至2008年之间，\n\n10 郭家还投资或参与了哪些其他\n\n11 重大项目？\n\n12 官方口译员：\n从1990年代至\n\n13 ——\n\n14 答 在90年代初至2008年之间。\n\n15 问 你记得其中任何项目吗？任何\n\n16 重大事业？\n\n17 答 Beijing Golden Spring（北京金泉）。\n\n18 问 那是什么？\n\n19 答 它是一家地产公司。房地产。\n\n20 它是一家房地产公司。\n\n21 问 这是一家开发公司，还是一家——\n\n22 例如买卖代理机构？\n\n23 答 开发公司。\n\n24 问 Pangu Plaza（盘古广场）项目大约何时启动\n\n25 ？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 大约1999年。\n\n2 问 好的。那么我们就以此作为一个\n\n3 时间点。\n\n4 在 Pangu Plaza\n\n5 项目开始时，该家庭大约已积累了多少\n\n6 财富？\n\n7 私人口译员：\n请再问一遍那个\n\n8 问题？\n\n9 哈巴赫先生：\n当然。\n\n10 问 截至1999年，即 Pangu Plaza 项目开始时，\n\n11 到那时该家庭大约已经赚取或\n\n12 积累了多少财富？\n\n13 官方口译员：\n你是说\n\n14 1999年之后？\n\n15 哈巴赫先生：\n不，我是说截至\n\n16 1999年？\n\n17 官方口译员：\n哦，截至1999年。\n\n18 问 截至1999年，该家庭已经赚了\n\n19 多少钱？\n\n20 答 我不记得。\n\n21 问 超过 $100 million？\n\n22 答 我不记得。\n\n23 问 超过 $500 million？\n\n24 答 我不记得。\n\n25 问 超过十亿美元？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n第130页，共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 129\n\n1 答 我不记得。\n\n2 问 你本人是否参与了与\n\n3 Uda Property Company 的工作？\n\n4 答 是。\n\n5 问 你本人是否参与了\n\n6 Henan Uda Hotel 的开发？\n\n7 答 是。\n\n8 问 你本人是否参与了郑州的 Uda\n\n9 International Trade Center？\n\n10 答 是。\n\n11 问 你本人是否参与了\n\n12 Pengu Plaza 的开发？\n\n13 答 是。\n\n14 问 谁负责 Beijing Golden Spring Real Estate Development firm（北京金泉房地产开发公司）\n\n15 ？\n\n16 答 一个专业团队。\n\n17 问 你是该团队成员吗？\n\n18 答 当时我是顾问。\n\n19 问 为 Beijing Golden Spring 担任顾问？\n\n20 答 是。\n\n21 问 大约在哪一时间段，\n\n22 你担任他们的顾问？\n\n23 答 2000年之后。\n\n24 问 2000年之后。好的。\n\n25 克莱伯恩女士（Claiborn）：\n哈巴赫先生，我只是想\n\n第 页，共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 指出，现在是4:18，我知道今天时间很长\n\n2 ——而且我想给——首先，我为\n\n3 打断你表示歉意。\n\n4 哈巴赫先生：\n没关系。\n\n5 克莱伯恩女士：\n但我想给\n\n6 委员会律师一个机会，让他们今天在我们结束前\n\n7 问几个问题。\n\n8 哈巴赫先生：\n当然。没问题。\n\n9 斯塔夫斯特罗姆先生（Stafstrom）：\n我会非常简短。\n\n10 斯塔夫斯特罗姆先生进行询问：\n\n11 问\n我注意到你的头发很短。我喜欢\n\n12 这样。你最近理发了吗？\n\n13 答\n是。我理发了。\n\n14 问\n你在哪里理的？\n\n15 答\n我妻子。\n\n16 问\n哦，你妻子。好的。\n\n17 她一直给你理发吗？\n\n18 答\n从疫情之后到现在。\n\n19 问\n好的。好吧。那么我没有其他\n\n20 问题了。\n\n21 克莱伯恩女士：\n我将暂停\n\n22 录音，同时我们商定一个新的\n\n23 日期。\n\n24 （休庭。）\n\n25 克莱伯恩女士：\n我们恢复记录\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2292-48\nFiled 10/26/23\nEntered 10/26/23 20:46:12\n第132页，共134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 131\n\n1 短暂休息后。我们已确定延期至\n\n2 4月29日，于上午10:00开始。我们今天\n\n3 到此结束。谢谢。\n\n4 （会议休会。）\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23 Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 第133页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n本人，CHRISTINE FIORE（克里斯汀·菲奥雷），经法院批准的记录誊写员以及经认证的电子记录员和誊写员，特此证明：上述内容是上述案件程序官方电子录音的准确誊本。\n\n2022年4月15日\n\nChristine Fiore，CERT\n\n誊写员\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 2292-48 Filed 10/26/23 Entered 10/26/23 20:46:12 第134页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 133\n\n1 目录\n\n3 页码\n4 克莱伯恩女士询问 6\n5 沃尔曼先生（Wolman）询问 71\n6 哈巴赫先生询问 80\n7 斯塔夫斯特罗姆先生询问 130","key_entities":["Kwok","Ho Wan Kwok","Je","Saraca","GTV","Yanping Wang","Chinese Communist Party","CIPA","Guo","Wang Yanping"],"ecf_references":[{"doc_number":77,"court":"CTB"},{"doc_number":78,"court":"CTB"}],"word_count":35332,"status":"published","published_at":"2023-10-26 00:00:00","created_at":"2023-10-26","updated_at":"2026-08-23 22:54:09"}