{"id":"court_ctb_404_8","court":"CTB","case_no":"22-50073","doc_number":404,"sub_number":8,"doc_type":"EXHIBIT","filed_date":"2022-05-20","title":"EXHIBIT PAX 08 Transcript of the 341 Meeting of Creditors (Part II)","summary_zh":null,"summary_en":null,"body_en":"# **EXHIBIT PAX 08**\n\nTranscript of the 341 Meeting of Creditors (Part II)\n\nUNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT In Re \\* Chapter 11 \\* \\* HO WAN KWOK, \\* Case 22-50073(JAM) \\* Debtor. \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* TRANSCRIPT OF CONTINUED 341 MEETING OF CREDITORS APRIL 6, 2022 Electronically Recorded by the Office of the United States Trustee Transcript Prepared By: Christine Fiore, CERT Fiore Reporting and Transcription Service, Inc. 4 Research Drive, Suite 402 Shelton, CT 06484 (203)929-9992\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 134\n\nFor the Debtor: WILLIAM R. BALDIGA, ESQ. BEN SILVERBERG, ESQ.\n\nFor the U.S. Trustee: HOLLEY E. CLAIBORN, ESQ.\n\nFor Logan Cheng, JAY MARSHALL WOLMAN, ESQ. Creditor: Randazza Legal Group\n\nAPPEARANCES:\n\nFor Pacific Alliance DAVID V. HARBACH, II, ESQ. Asia Opportunity Fund, O'Melveny & Myers, LLP LP, Creditors: 1625 I Street NW\n\nWashington, DC 20006 STUART SARNOFF, ESQ. MAKENZIE RUSSO O'Melveny & Myers, LLP Times Square Tower\n\nHartford, CT 06103\n\nBrown Rudnick, LLP Seven Times Square New York, NY 10036\n\nSTEVEN MACKEY, ESQ.\n\n150 State Street New Haven, CT 06510\n\nOffice of the U.S. Trustee\n\n100 Pearl Street, 14th Floor\n\n7 Times Square New York, NY 10036\n\nANNECCA SMITH, ESQ. Robinson and Cole 280 Trumbull Street Hartford, CT 06103\n\nFor Bruno Wu, Weican KRISTEN MAYHEW, ESQ. Meng and Rui Ma, McElroy, Deutsch, Mulvaney & Creditors: Carpenter One State Street Hartford, CT 06103\n\nFor the Official STEVEN STAFSTROM, ESQ. Committee of Unsecured Pullman & Comley Creditors: 850 Main Street Bridgeport, CT 06601\n\n2\n\n#### Case 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 4 of\n\n134\n\n3\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Good morning.
Today is |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | Wednesday, April 6th, 2022.
We are gathered for the |\n| 3 | continued meeting of creditors in the Chapter 11 |\n| 4 | case of Ho Wan Kwok, case no. 22-50073. |\n| 5 | My name is Holley Claiborn. I'm a trial |\n| 6 | attorney in the Office of the United States Trustee |\n| 7 | and I will be conducting today's meeting.
Today's |\n| 8 | meeting is being recorded on a digital recorder and |\n| 9 | is also available for parties to participate on the |\n| 10 | phone.
And there are parties, including the debtor |\n| 11 | and counsel and other professionals, gathered here |\n| 12 | in person. |\n| 13 | Today's meeting is being interpreted, as |\n| 14 | you can hear and our interpreter today is Jeff and |\n| 15 | I'm going to ask Jeff to respond to this oath. |\n| 16 | (The interpreter is sworn.) |\n| 17 | THE COURT:
On behalf of Mr. Kwok we have |\n| 18 | William Baldiga and Ben Silverberg. |\n| 19 | Also on behalf of the debtor we have |\n| 20 | financial professionals Craig Gelbert and Matthew |\n| 21 | Flynn. |\n| 22 | Present here today on behalf of the |\n| 23 | Committee of Unsecured Creditors is Steven Stafstrom |\n| 24 | from Pullman and Comley. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 5 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|-----------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|-----------|\n\n134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
4 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Mr. Stafstrom is the lawyer for the |\n| 2 | Official Committee of Unsecured Creditors. |\n| 3 | Also present today on behalf of PAACS |\n| 4 | Stuart Sarnoff, David Harbach and MacKenzie Russo. |\n| 5 | They represent PAACS. |\n| 6 | On behalf of certain creditors, including |\n| 7 | Rui Ma, we have Kristen Mayhew. |\n| 8 | On behalf of creditor, Logan Cheng, we |\n| 9 | have Jay Wolman. |\n| 10 | Also on behalf of PAACS we have Annecca |\n| 11 | Smith, from Robinson and Cole. |\n| 12 | And then also for the debtor today we have |\n| 13 | Josh Klein and Aaron Mitchell. |\n| 14 | Today's meeting will feature me asking |\n| 15 | questions first, followed by the opportunity for |\n| 16 | creditors to come up and ask questions. |\n| 17 | Is anyone on the telephone conference |\n| 18 | line? |\n| 19 | MR. MACKEY:
Steven Mackey from the U.S. |\n| 20 | Trustee's Office is on the conference line. |\n| 21 | Thank you, Mr. Mackey.
Anyone else |\n| 22 | besides Mr. Mackey. |\n| 23 | Hearing none, I'm going to proceed to |\n| 24 | swearing in Mr. Kwok. |\n| 25 | (The debtor is sworn.) |\n\n#### Case 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 6 of\n\n134\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | | | |\n|---|--|-----------------------------|--|------------------------|--|--|\n| | | | | | | |\n| 1 | | MS. CLAIBORN: | | Mr. Kwok, as you know, | | |\n\n5\n\n2 today's meeting is being recorded and Mr. Jeff here 3 is our official interpreter for today. 4 Jeff will be interpreting the questions 5 that I ask and your answers, and I ask that you wait 6 until Jeff has made a full translation before you 7 answer my questions. 8 EXAMINATION BY MS. CLAIBORN: 9 Q Mr. Kwok, we're going to pick up today in 10 an area that we left off in general from the last 11 meeting of creditors that was held back on March 12 21st, 2022. 13 Has anything changed in your employment 14 status since March 21st, 2022? 15 A No. 16 Q Has anything changed with respect to your 17 residence? 18 A No. 19 Q During the meeting held on March 21st, 20 2022 I asked you about the accuracy of your 21 bankruptcy schedules and your bankruptcy statement 22 of financial affairs. 23 A No change. 24 Q Thank you. 25 MS. CLAIBORN: Jeff, for purposes of my\n\n### Case 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 7 of\n\n134\n\n| Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | | |\n|-----------------------------|--|--|--|\n|-----------------------------|--|--|--|\n\n6\n\n| 1 | questions I'm going to be following the documents |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | that are in front of you. When I say schedules, it's |\n| 3 | this document.
And then this document is the |\n| 4 | statement of financial affairs.
Okay?
And when I |\n| 5 | refer to an ECF number, it's at the top of the page. |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
ECF number. |\n| 7 | Okay. |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay?
That should allow |\n| 9 | you to follow along and start on this page. |\n| 10 | EXAMINATION BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
Okay.
Mr. Kwok, I'm going to ask you to |\n| 12 | make sure you have in front of you, which you appear |\n| 13 | to do, Schedules A-B through J. |\n| 14 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
He has Mandarin |\n| 15 | translations in front of him. |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
I see that Mr. Baldiga, who is seated next |\n| 18 | to you, has English versions.
But in front of you, |\n| 19 | Mr. Kwok, appear to be translations.
Is that |\n| 20 | accurate? |\n| 21 | A
Just on Schedule A-B. |\n| 22 | Q
Okay.
So, Mr. Kwok, when you're answering |\n| 23 | my questions today, you're going to be taking a look |\n| 24 | at your own translated versions of the bankruptcy |\n| 25 | schedules. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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7 |\n| 1 | A
Okay. |\n| 2 | Q
Okay. |\n| 3 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Just a minute, |\n| 4 | Your Honor. |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Yes. |\n| 6 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I'm having a |\n| 7 | little difficulty hearing the interpreter when he |\n| 8 | interprets the witness's answers. |\n| 9 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
So, Jack, if you |\n| 10 | could speak up.
I'm going to move the microphone. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, okay. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
See if that works. |\n| 13 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 14 | Q
Okay.
Mr. Kwok, starting at Question No. |\n| 15 | 1 on Schedule A-B.
With respect to Schedule A-B at |\n| 16 | Question No. 1, that asks if you own any legal or |\n| 17 | equitable interest in any real estate residence or |\n| 18 | building or similar property.
Your answer to that |\n| 19 | Question No. 1 was no, Mr. Kwok.
Is that an |\n| 20 | accurate answer? |\n| 21 | A
Yes. |\n| 22 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you owned any real estate |\n| 23 | between the year 2018 and your bankruptcy filing in |\n| 24 | February of 2022? |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 9 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|-----------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|-----------|\n\n134\n\n| 8 | |\n|---|--|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
8 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | that one? |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 3 | Q
Have you owned any real estate between the |\n| 4 | year 2018 and your bankruptcy filing in February |\n| 5 | 2022? |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 7 | that one?
He said he didn't hear that. |\n| 8 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 9 | Q
Mr. Kwok -- |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
I'm sorry.
I couldn't hear. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said that he |\n| 12 | didn't understand the translation.
I just want to |\n| 13 | make sure I understand first. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'll repeat the question. |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yes. |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you owned any real estate |\n| 18 | between 2018 and February of 2022? |\n| 19 | A
No. |\n| 20 | Q
Mr. Kwok, as of the bankruptcy filing in |\n| 21 | February 2022, did you have any equitable interest |\n| 22 | in any real estate anywhere in the world? |\n| 23 | A
No. |\n| 24 | Q
Mr. Kwok, as of the bankruptcy filing in |\n| 25 | February 2022, did you have any legal interest in |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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9 |\n| 1 | any real estate anywhere in the world? |\n| 2 | A
No. |\n| 3 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you ever owned any real |\n| 4 | estate in Hong Kong? |\n| 5 | A
No. |\n| 6 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
What was the |\n| 7 | answer? |\n| 8 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
No. |\n| 9 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 10 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you ever owned the property |\n| 11 | located at 16A South Bay Road, Hong Kong? |\n| 12 | A
No. |\n| 13 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you currently own an |\n| 14 | apartment at the Sherry Netherland in New York City? |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 16 | it.
Can I ask him repeat the -- repeat the answer? |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
You have to say -- whatever |\n| 18 | you're going to say, you have to -- you're talking |\n| 19 | to everybody, not just Holley, so I need to hear |\n| 20 | what you're saying. |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
I just - |\n| 22 | - I just want to ask him to repeat -- repeat the |\n| 23 | answer. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay? |\n\n134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
10 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE WITNESS:
I don't own that real estate |\n| 2 | in New York, the Sharon -- the Sharons -- at that |\n| 3 | address I don't remember, and I own -- I own 50 |\n| 4 | percent the stock -- the stock and -- |\n| 5 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No. |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
No? |\n| 7 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No. |\n| 8 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 9 | THE WITNESS:
For the family. |\n| 10 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can I ask you not to |\n| 11 | interrupt?
Can you just wait until the end and then |\n| 12 | -- |\n| 13 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- you can express whatever |\n| 15 | it is you want to say? |\n| 16 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can you please just |\n| 18 | translate Mr. Kwok's answer again? |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
I just |\n| 20 | want to repeat, make sure -- and I said it right, |\n| 21 | you know, what he said. |\n| 22 | THE WITNESS:
So, yeah, he -- he said, I |\n| 23 | owe -- I own 50 percent of the -- 50 percent, but I |\n| 24 | don't own the whole real estate, but I just |\n| 25 | represent the family. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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11 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 2 | Q | Mr. Kwok, what do you own 50 percent of? |\n| 3 | A | Bravo Luck, 50 percent of the stock powder |\n| 4 | -- power. | I don't know.
I don't understand. |\n| 5 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
(Indiscernible.) |\n| 6 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He owned -- he |\n| 7 | | said he owns the 50 percent of it. |\n| 8 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
-- we can hear |\n| 9 | you fine, Holley. | |\n| 10 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
I'm going to ask -- |\n| 11 | I'm going to -- | |\n| 12 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't know if |\n| 13 | | the microphone is connected to anything. |\n| 14 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
It is.
It is.
Jeff, if |\n| 15 | you can speak up? | |\n| 16 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Mr. Kwok said |\n| 17 | | he owe -- he owns 50 percent of -- of the stock.
Is |\n| 18 | | it like the stock of the real estate or something? |\n| 19 | I don't know. | I don't get it.
But you can help if |\n| 20 | she wants to help. | Do you want him to help a little |\n| 21 | bit? | |\n| 22 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'd rather not. |\n| 23 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 24 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
So, I'll just -- I'll ask |\n| 25 | | follow-up questions. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 13 of |\n|---------------|------------------|----------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 12 |\n| 1 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. | |\n| 2 | | MR. BALDIGA: | All right.
But I need to | |\n| 3 | | | hear if it's a misinterpretation, so -- | |\n| 4 | | MS. CLAIBORN: | I'm going to ask a | |\n| 5 | | clarifying question, if I could. | | |\n| 6 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 7 | Q | | Mr. Kwok, do you own 50 percent of a | |\n| 8 | | company called Bravo Luck? | | |\n| 9 | A | | I represent my family to hold 50 percent | |\n| 10 | of the stock. | | | |\n| 11 | Q | | Mr. Kwok, when you use the term -- | |\n| 12 | | MR. BALDIGA: | Could I hear that back? | |\n| 13 | | Could you repeat that? | | |\n| 14 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. | I |\n| 15 | | | represent my family to hold 50 percent of the stock | |\n| 16 | | of the -- of the company. | | |\n| 17 | | MR. BALDIGA: | Okay. | |\n| 18 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 19 | Q | | Mr. Kwok, when you say family, what do you | |\n| 20 | mean? | | | |\n| 21 | A | | My family is a big family and that | |\n| 22 | | includes a lot of people. | My kids and my sister-in | |\n| 23 | | laws, and all people together. | A lot of people. | |\n| 24 | Q | | Mr. Kwok, who owns an interest -- | |\n| 25 | | MR. BALDIGA: | Excuse me.
We do have an | |\n\n#### Case 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 14 of\n\n134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 13 1 interpretation question. 2 THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: I just want to 3 ask that, is there supposed to be summary of the 4 (indiscernible) the interpretation? 5 MS. CLAIBORN: To the best of Mr. Jeff's 6 ability, it should be verbatim. 7 THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: Right. So if 8 Mr. Kwok said, my son, my daughter, my brother, my 9 sister-in-law, my nephew, my niece, many people, 10 then if the interpreter say, well, a lot of my 11 families and my brother, many people, then should it 12 be correct or not? 13 MS. CLAIBORN: I would prefer that Mr. 14 Jeff translate as literally as possible. So with 15 that instruction, can we -- 16 THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Yeah. 17 MS. CLAIBORN: -- do a specific job as 18 best we can going forward? Thank you. 19 MR. BALDIGA: Thank you. 20 BY MS. CLAIBORN: 21 Q So, Mr. Kwok, who owns the company called 22 Bravo Luck? 23 A My son. 24 Q And what is your son's name? 25 A Cheng Wu.\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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14 |\n| 1 | Q
How long has your son owned Bravo Luck? |\n| 2 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 3 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Say again, |\n| 4 | please. |\n| 5 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't |\n| 6 | remember. |\n| 7 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 8 | Q
So, Mr. Kwok, what do you own 50 percent |\n| 9 | of when you explained your ownership interest in the |\n| 10 | Southern Sherry Netherland? |\n| 11 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You may |\n| 12 | interpret. |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 14 | that one again, Holley? |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 16 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you testified that you owned 50 |\n| 17 | percent of some company, and that was in response to |\n| 18 | my question if you owned the Sherry Netherland |\n| 19 | apartment.
Can you please explain what you meant? |\n| 20 | A
Sherry is a co-op.
It doesn't have the -- |\n| 21 | it doesn't have the -- it doesn't have the |\n| 22 | ownership. |\n| 23 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
May I, Ms. |\n| 24 | Holley? |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Yes, of course. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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15 |\n| 1 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
You've got to |\n| 2 | speak louder. |\n| 3 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
I'm going to put |\n| 4 | ourselves on pause for a second here. |\n| 5 | (Off the record) |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
We're back on |\n| 7 | the record after a short break, and, Mr. Kwok, you |\n| 8 | remain under oath. |\n| 9 | Jeff, could you please retranslate? |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
The last question.
You |\n| 12 | want me to ask it again? |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
Would |\n| 14 | you ask it again? |\n| 15 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
I'll try it |\n| 16 | again. |\n| 17 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 18 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you testified today that you own |\n| 19 | 50 percent of an interest in some company, and that |\n| 20 | was the answer you gave me in response to my |\n| 21 | question if you own an apartment at the Sherry |\n| 22 | Netherland.
Can you please explain your answer? |\n| 23 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection. |\n| 24 | THE WITNESS:
I don't know how to explain |\n| 25 | it.
He said the Sherry Netherland is a co-op.
I |\n\n#### Case 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 17 of\n\n134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n16\n\n| 1 | don't have a deed on that property and I just |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | represent my family to own 50 percent of the right. |\n| 3 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me.
Go ahead. |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Because that -- |\n| 5 | Mr. Kwok did mention the company name Bravo Luck, so |\n| 6 | Mr. Interpreter did not say the word Bravo Luck, the |\n| 7 | company that holds the interest of Sherry |\n| 8 | Netherland, and Mr. Kwok represents the family owns |\n| 9 | 50 percent of Bravo Luck, which is the holding |\n| 10 | company of owning the Sherry Netherland. The Sherry |\n| 11 | Netherland is a co-op. |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
So I'm going to make a |\n| 13 | continuing objection to the extent that the |\n| 14 | interpreter is not providing the exact words used by |\n| 15 | the witness.
I'm not ascribing any faults or |\n| 16 | anything, but obviously that's critical to the |\n| 17 | quality of the testimony and that's necessary. |\n| 18 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We need -- |\n| 19 | MR. BALDIGA:
We have to use the words |\n| 20 | used by the witness. |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm sure that Jeff is going |\n| 22 | to do his best job today to try to translate |\n| 23 | everything literally. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
But please understand that |\n\n134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | |\n|---|-----------------------------------------------------|--|\n| 1 | there is a familiarity with terms in this room that | |\n| 2 | Mr. Jeff does not have.
So to the extent that | |\n| 3 | people are answering questions with shorthand | |\n\n17\n\n4 versions of company names or just one words, the 5 answer should be as specific as possible -- 6 THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Yeah, I -- 7 MS. CLAIBORN: -- if you could translate 8 that. 9 THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: -- my best but 10 probably that interpreter honestly, Holley, the 11 interpreter probably know the case more, the 12 details. 13 MS. CLAIBORN: I agree. Can you just -- 14 THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: But if he --\n\n15 MS. CLAIBORN: -- can you translate what I 16 just said to Mr. Kwok, because I want to make sure 17 --\n\n18 THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Oh.\n\n19 MS. CLAIBORN: -- he answers questions in 20 a way that are easily translatable.\n\n21 THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: I just tell him 22 and the answer let -- you know short and clear, but 23 I pretty much understand what he says and -- 24 MS. CLAIBORN: And can you please 25 translate Mr. Kwok's answers or comments to your\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 19 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n\n134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n18\n\n| 1 | comments? |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said he will |\n| 3 | try to make it a shorter and clear and -- but he |\n| 4 | needs to explain the details as much as he can |\n| 5 | because it's a -- it's related to his lifeline. |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Sarnoff? |\n| 7 | MR. SARNOFF:
Yeah.
I just wanted to make |\n| 8 | clear that to the extent there is a discrepancy |\n| 9 | between the interpreter -- the translator, the |\n| 10 | official translator and Mr. Kwok's interpreter, that |\n| 11 | the translator is the final arbiter and that unless |\n| 12 | the translator agrees with the translation |\n| 13 | difference that the interpreter is putting forth, |\n| 14 | they have to work that out before we can defer to |\n| 15 | the -- to Mr. Kwok's personal interpreter as what |\n| 16 | Mr. Kwok said. |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
I don't accept that. |\n| 18 | MR. SARNOFF:
That's fine. |\n| 19 | MR. BALDIGA:
That can be your position. |\n| 20 | MR. SARNOFF:
Okay.
The position has to |\n| 21 | be that the translator has to agree with the |\n| 22 | interpreter about what Mr. Kwok said for the record |\n| 23 | to be accurate. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
That -- I understand your |\n| 25 | position. |\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 20 of\n\n134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n19\n\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
So, Holley, if |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | I miss anything that his personal interpreter wants |\n| 3 | to make up whatever I'm missing, some of the detail |\n| 4 | information, and is it okay for her to add on and if |\n| 5 | I agree what -- you know, what I'm missing or what |\n| 6 | he said, maybe I'm missing some detail information |\n| 7 | and some -- |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I think the better route |\n| 9 | for today -- |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- and for purposes of a |\n| 12 | clear translation and a clear record -- |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- is for you, Jeff, to |\n| 15 | interpret -- |\n| 16 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Uh-huh. |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- my questions and to |\n| 18 | interpret Mr. Kwok's answers. |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 20 | MS. CLAIBORN:
And if Mr. Kwok thinks, |\n| 21 | based on your interpretation, that you have not |\n| 22 | translated properly, then he can testify again and |\n| 23 | you can try again. |\n| 24 | But I would like to restrict the |\n| 25 | interaction that happens between translators and |\n\n134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n20\n\n| 1 | between Mr. Kwok's personal translator so that we |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | have an official record where the person asking the |\n| 3 | question is me, it's being officially translated, |\n| 4 | and Mr. Kwok is giving the answers, and that also is |\n| 5 | being officially translated. |\n| 6 | MR. BALDIGA:
But, Holley, the problem |\n| 7 | with that is the witness doesn't know whether Jeff's |\n| 8 | English report is in fact accurate.
You can't leave |\n| 9 | it up to the witness.
That's why we have a check |\n| 10 | interpreter.
If he spoke English, then we wouldn't |\n| 11 | need any interpreters.
He can't do that. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I think as a practical |\n| 13 | matter, Mr. Kwok speaks enough English to know |\n| 14 | whether or not he's answered his question. |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
No, he doesn't.
I object. |\n| 16 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Well, I -- I think that |\n| 17 | that has been what I have seen from my own personal |\n| 18 | experience. |\n| 19 | That said, we're going to try and do the |\n| 20 | best we can -- |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
I agree. |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- and we'll see where we |\n| 23 | go. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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21 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 2 | Q
So back to questions and answers.
Mr. |\n| 3 | Kwok, do you own an interest in Genever Holdings |\n| 4 | Corporation? |\n| 5 | A
I just have -- in reality, I don't, but I |\n| 6 | just held -- I just represent my family to hold some |\n| 7 | interest. |\n| 8 | Q
Is anyone authorized to act on behalf of |\n| 9 | Genever Holdings Corporation aside from you? |\n| 10 | A
My son. |\n| 11 | Q
Is there a document that memorializes your |\n| 12 | ownership interest, whatever it is, in Genever |\n| 13 | Holdings Corporation? |\n| 14 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You -- you may |\n| 15 | answer. |\n| 16 | THE WITNESS:
No. |\n| 17 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Ms. Holley, can |\n| 18 | I -- first of all, the last time that -- when he was |\n| 19 | saying -- instructing the witness about his |\n| 20 | testimony, what should it be, I don't think the |\n| 21 | interpreter -- the official interpreter interpreted |\n| 22 | your instruction.
He is telling the witness what he |\n| 23 | should be doing, but not what you were saying. |\n| 24 | And then, now that the witness is saying |\n| 25 | that he asked the interpreter twice that -- you were |\n\n134\n\n| | | | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | |\n|--|--|--|--|-----------------------------|--|--|\n|--|--|--|--|-----------------------------|--|--|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
22 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | talking about ownership, you were talking about |\n| 2 | ownership interest.
Now he used twice these words, |\n| 3 | and then at the end, Mr. Jeff said, yes.
And then, |\n| 4 | so he answered no, but then the interaction was not |\n| 5 | interpreted. |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Jeff, could you |\n| 7 | translate? |\n| 8 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't know |\n| 9 | what she just said.
I don't know.
I didn't |\n| 10 | understand what she's saying. |\n| 11 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I mean, every |\n| 12 | word should be interpreted.
The witness -- every |\n| 13 | word the witness says should be interpreted.
Ms. |\n| 14 | Holley's words should be interpreted, right? |\n| 15 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Yes. |\n| 16 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Right.
But he |\n| 17 | will -- not interpreted Ms. Holley's -- and you did |\n| 18 | not interpret everything Mr. Kwok said. |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
Maybe -- |\n| 20 | maybe we should have her to interpret.
I'm going to |\n| 21 | excuse myself.
I don't know -- |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to put the -- |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- I'm not |\n| 24 | familiar with -- |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- I'm going to put the |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
23 |\n| 1 | matter on pause for a moment. |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, yeah, |\n| 3 | yeah. |\n| 4 | (Off the record) |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
We are back on |\n| 6 | the record after a short break. |\n| 7 | Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath. |\n| 8 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 9 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you have any United States |\n| 10 | currency with you today? |\n| 11 | A
No. |\n| 12 | Q
When you filed your bankruptcy case, did |\n| 13 | you have any United States currency? |\n| 14 | A
No. |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own any foreign currency? |\n| 16 | A
No. |\n| 17 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own any digital currency? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you have any financial |\n| 20 | accounts of any kind in the United States? |\n| 21 | A
No. |\n| 22 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you have any financial |\n| 23 | accounts of any kind outside of the United States? |\n| 24 | A
No. |\n| 25 | Q
On March 21st, you testified you have no |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 25 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n\n134\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | |\n|--|--|-----------------------------|--|\n| | | | |\n\n| 1 | job and no source of income.
Who pays for your | | | |\n|----|---------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|\n| 2 | household expenses? | | | |\n| 3 | A
Sometimes my son, sometimes my wife, or | | | |\n| 4 | sometimes my other family member. | | | |\n| 5 | Q
Do you have access to any credit cards? | | | |\n| 6 | A
No. | | | |\n| 7 | Q
Do you have access to any debit cards | | | |\n| 8 | attached to a bank account? | | | |\n| 9 | A
No. | | | |\n| 10 | Q
How do you pay for groceries? | | | |\n| 11 | A
My son, my wife, my family members' | | | |\n| 12 | company pay for. | | | |\n| 13 | Q
Where does your son live? | | | |\n| 14 | A
London. | | | |\n| 15 | Q
How does your son send you money? | | | |\n| 16 | A
He has a family office in a company, New | | | |\n| 17 | York. | | | |\n| 18 | Q
Does the family office give you money? | | | |\n| 19 | A
They pay the expenses above. | | | |\n| 20 | Q
What does the term family office mean? | | | |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You may answer. | | | |\n| 22 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can I ask to -- | | | |\n| 23 | ask him to repeat? | | | |\n| 24 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Yes. | | | |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
Can you | | | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 134\n\n25\n\n| 1 | -- |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
Right.
He also have to |\n| 3 | interpret for the witness what I say. |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
You haven't said anything |\n| 5 | yet and he's going to ask him to repeat his answers |\n| 6 | so then he's going to translate, and then we can |\n| 7 | have whatever discussion you want to have. |\n| 8 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
The counsel |\n| 9 | raised objection.
The interpreter did not interpret |\n| 10 | the objection. |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I can happily repeat the |\n| 12 | question, but we are not going to get anywhere today |\n| 13 | in a meaningful fashion if people are interrupting |\n| 14 | on basic questions. |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
No, I didn't interrupt, but |\n| 16 | -- |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
So let me try again. |\n| 18 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay.
But hold on.
If I |\n| 19 | object or if I say anything else, that has to be |\n| 20 | interpreted. |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
You're not waiting for |\n| 22 | space to interpret.
So, Mr. Jeff, can you interpret |\n| 23 | that exchange that just happened? |\n| 24 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
I don't |\n| 25 | know.
It's just too much interruption. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
26 |\n| 1 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Right. |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Holley, I can't |\n| 3 | do -- keep doing this.
I just too distracted and I |\n| 4 | don't know.
It just a simple -- ask the witness |\n| 5 | just a simple repeat and then -- |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Let me try -- |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- it gets all |\n| 8 | these people involved. |\n| 9 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Correct.
Let me -- |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
We're not going |\n| 11 | anywhere. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Let me try the question |\n| 13 | again. |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, what do you mean by the term, |\n| 16 | family office? |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You may answer. |\n| 18 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Baldiga, that term is |\n| 19 | all over the papers.
Can you repeat -- translate? |\n| 20 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
No, I'm not |\n| 21 | going anywhere.
Holley, I just excuse myself.
I'm |\n| 22 | sorry.
It's -- it's not going -- |\n| 23 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to put it on |\n| 24 | pause, please. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- this is too |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 28 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n\n134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
27 | | | |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|\n| 1 | much. | | | |\n| 2 | (Off the record) | | | |\n| 3 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We're back on the record | | | |\n| 4 | after a short break. | | | |\n| 5 | Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath.
During | | | |\n| 6 | the break, I spoke with Attorney Baldiga and we have | | | |\n| 7 | agreed that all objections as to form of the | | | |\n| 8 | question are reserved. | | | |\n| 9 | I'm going to go back to my questions. | | | |\n| 10 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 11 | Q
The question we left off after the break | | | |\n| 12 | was what do you mean by the term family office? | | | |\n| 13 | A
They are representing my big family.
It's | | | |\n| 14 | a company my son, my daughter, my wife, and it's a | | | |\n| 15 | company representing my family for investment. | | | |\n| 16 | Q
What is the name of the company? | | | |\n| 17 | A
Golden Spring Europe. | | | |\n| 18 | Q
Do you mean Golden Spring New York? | | | |\n| 19 | A
Roughly the name. | | | |\n| 20 | Q
Who pays for the meals that you eat? | | | |\n| 21 | A
Sometimes my wife's company, sometimes my | | | |\n| 22 | family office, my son's company. | | | |\n| 23 | Q
Mr. Kwok, when you use the term family | | | |\n| 24 | office, are you referring to the company known as | | | |\n| 25 | Golden Spring New York Limited? | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
28 |\n| 1 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What's the name |\n| 2 | of the company? | Can I -- can you repeat it? |\n| 3 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
The name is Golden Spring |\n| 4 | New York Limited. | |\n| 5 | | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 6 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 7 | Q | In your bankruptcy case, you filed a |\n| 8 | | report covering your expenses for the month of |\n| 9 | February. | |\n| 10 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
May I repeat |\n| 11 | again? | |\n| 12 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Maybe I'll try it again. |\n| 13 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Thank you. |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 15 | Q | Mr. Kwok, you filed a monthly operating |\n| 16 | | report covering the month of February 2022, and that |\n| 17 | | report shows you spent approximately \\$160,000. |\n| 18 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
I object. |\n| 19 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 20 | Q | Who funded the disbursements of \\$160,000? |\n| 21 | A | Some from the Golden Spring family office |\n| 22 | | and the company, some were paid by my wife and my |\n| 23 | wife's company. | |\n| 24 | Q | What is the name of your wife's company? |\n| 25 | A | Greenwich, in Connecticut. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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134 |\n|---------------|---------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
29 |\n| 1 | Q | Are you referring to the company? |\n| 2 | A | Yes, the company name. |\n| 3 | Q | What expenses does your wife company, |\n| 4 | | Greenwich, pay for? |\n| 5 | A | Mostly food, because I live in my wife's |\n| 6 | house. | We share the cleaning, the expenses because |\n| 7 | | -- and also the garden maintenance expenses. |\n| 8 | | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Okay.
Can we take |\n| 9 | | a quick time out so I can speak with my co-counsel? |\n| 10 | | Or with my partner. |\n| 11 | | MR. BALDIGA:
No, let's just wait. |\n| 12 | | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 13 | Q | Where does your wife's company, Greenwich, |\n| 14 | | get its money from? |\n| 15 | A | I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q | Did your wife's company, Greenwich, pay |\n| 17 | | for any professional expenses? |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q | Is your wife the person who actually makes |\n| 20 | the payments? | |\n| 21 | A | Yes. |\n| 22 | Q | Does your wife have a checking account? |\n| 23 | A | I don't know. |\n| 24 | Q | Does your wife have a debit card? |\n| 25 | A | I don't know. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 31 of |\n|---------------|-------------|---------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 30 |\n| 1 | Q | | When you eat in a restaurant with your | |\n| 2 | | wife, who pays the bill? | | |\n| 3 | A | | I never went to a restaurant with my wife. | |\n| 4 | Q | Ever? | | |\n| 5 | A | | I think I was chased by these people and I | |\n| 6 | never went. | | Thinks I -- you know, I think I was | |\n| 7 | | chased by these people. | | |\n| 8 | Q | | Does your wife buy groceries? | |\n| 9 | A | Sometimes. | | |\n| 10 | Q | | How does she pay for them? | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 12 | Q | | Why does Golden Spring New York pay for | |\n| 13 | | some of your personal expenses? | | |\n| 14 | A | | Because I'm one of the family member, and | |\n| 15 | | | my son is very successful and he loves me very much. | |\n| 16 | Q | | Is there any other reason? | |\n| 17 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 18 | Q | | What personal living expenses of yours | |\n| 19 | | does Golden Spring pay for? | | |\n| 20 | A | | The expense from security because I was | |\n| 21 | | | chased by the people in the back, and the | |\n| 22 | | | transportation, clothing, and some items for living. | |\n| 23 | Q | | Who is the person at Golden Spring New | |\n| 24 | York -- | | | |\n| 25 | | MS. CLAIBORN: | Wait a minute. | I'm going |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
31 |\n| 1 | | to ask a full question. |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 3 | Q | So who is the person at Golden Spring New |\n| 4 | | York who authorizes the payment of your personal |\n| 5 | living expenses? | |\n| 6 | A | My son. |\n| 7 | Q | Please explain how your son authorizes |\n| 8 | those payments. | |\n| 9 | A | I usually communicate with Golden Spring, |\n| 10 | | the company's manager and CEO. |\n| 11 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
(Indiscernible) |\n| 12 | | director, not manager. |\n| 13 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Could you -- |\n| 14 | okay. | Director, not a manager. |\n| 15 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 17 | Q | Mr. Kwok, who is the director or manager |\n| 18 | | that you just referred to? |\n| 19 | A | Wang Yanping. |\n| 20 | Q | Is Ms. Ping a officer of Golden Spring New |\n| 21 | York? | |\n| 22 | A | She is a Miss.
She's a lady. |\n| 23 | Q | Is Ms. Ping a corporate officer of Golden |\n| 24 | Spring New York? | |\n| 25 | A | Yes. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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134 |\n|---------------|-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
32 |\n| 1 | Q | What is her title? |\n| 2 | A | She is a officer or director. |\n| 3 | Q | Does she have a position title? |\n| 4 | A | I don't know. |\n| 5 | Q | Mr. Kwok, are you a corporate officer of |\n| 6 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 7 | A | Now? |\n| 8 | Q | Yes. |\n| 9 | A | No. |\n| 10 | Q | Mr. Kwok, have you ever been in the past, |\n| 11 | | a corporate officer of Golden Spring New York? |\n| 12 | A | I seem to hold a title when the company |\n| 13 | | was established in 2015.
I forgot what title was it |\n| 14 | then. | |\n| 15 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you own any interest in |\n| 16 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 17 | A | No. |\n| 18 | Q | In the past, have you ever had any kind of |\n| 19 | | ownership interest in Golden Spring New York? |\n| 20 | A | No. |\n| 21 | Q | Were you involved in the formation of |\n| 22 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 23 | A | Yes. |\n| 24 | Q | What was your role in the formation of |\n| 25 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 34 of |\n|---------------|-------------------|--------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 33 |\n| 1 | A | | Consultant and giving advice, suggestions. | |\n| 2 | Q | | Was your son involved in the formation of | |\n| 3 | | Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 4 | A | He is the main person. | He -- he was the | |\n| 5 | main person. | | | |\n| 6 | Q | | When Golden Spring New York was created, | |\n| 7 | | | who had the ownership interest in New York -- Golden | |\n| 8 | | New -- Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 9 | A | My son. | | |\n| 10 | Q | | Did Golden Spring Hong Kong have any | |\n| 11 | | | ownership interest in Golden Spring New York? | |\n| 12 | A | | I don't know the detail of the interest | |\n| 13 | | | and because this -- these two combined, it's | |\n| 14 | | considered one thing. | | |\n| 15 | Q | | Is Golden Spring Hong Kong a separate | |\n| 16 | | | company from Golden Spring New York? | |\n| 17 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 18 | Q | | Who owns Golden Spring Hong Kong? | |\n| 19 | A | My son. | | |\n| 20 | Q | | In 2015, when Golden Spring New York was | |\n| 21 | | | formed, who owned Golden Spring Hong Kong? | |\n| 22 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 23 | Q | | Are you a corporate officer of Golden | |\n| 24 | Spring Hong Kong? | | | |\n| 25 | A | I don't remember. | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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34 |\n| 1 | Q | Have you ever been a cooperate officer of |\n| 2 | | Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 3 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q | Do you have any ownership interest in |\n| 5 | | Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 6 | A | No. |\n| 7 | Q | Have you ever in the past, had an |\n| 8 | | ownership interest in Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 9 | A | No. |\n| 10 | Q | What type of business is Golden Spring New |\n| 11 | York engaged in? | |\n| 12 | A | I don't know. |\n| 13 | Q | How does Golden Spring New York generate |\n| 14 | revenue? | |\n| 15 | A | I don't know. |\n| 16 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Ms. Holley, I |\n| 17 | | don't know if this -- the (indiscernible) he said, |\n| 18 | | how does Golden Spring New York generate revenue, |\n| 19 | | not how does Golden Spring New York making money, |\n| 20 | right? | |\n| 21 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
That was basically my |\n| 22 | question. | |\n| 23 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yeah, so the |\n| 24 | | interpreter should not say -- interpret it in such a |\n| 25 | | way that Golden Spring New York -- how does Golden |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 36 of |\n|---------------|------------------|-------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------|------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 35 |\n| 1 | | | Spring New York make money, to the -- to the -- to | |\n| 2 | Mr. Kwok. | | | |\n| 3 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | Generate money, |\n| 4 | yeah. | | Generate revenue, generate money. | |\n| 5 | | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: | No, but you said |\n| 6 | -- | | | |\n| 7 | | MS. CLAIBORN: | I'm happy to ask it | |\n| 8 | specifically. | | | |\n| 9 | | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | |\n| 10 | Q | | How does Golden Spring New York make | |\n| 11 | money? | | | |\n| 12 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 13 | Q | | In the year 2015, were you involved in | |\n| 14 | | Golden Spring New York's business? | | |\n| 15 | A | I don't remember. | | |\n| 16 | Q | | Have you ever given a gift of money to | |\n| 17 | | Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 18 | A | No. | | |\n| 19 | Q | | Have you ever given any money to Golden | |\n| 20 | Spring New York? | | | |\n| 21 | A | No. | | |\n| 22 | Q | | Have you ever transferred any property of | |\n| 23 | | any kind to Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 24 | A | No. | | |\n| 25 | Q | | Have you ever funded Golden Spring New | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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36 |\n| 1 | York in any way? | |\n| 2 | A | No. |\n| 3 | Q | Have you ever loaned money to Golden |\n| 4 | Spring New York? | |\n| 5 | A | No. |\n| 6 | Q | Have you ever invested any of your own |\n| 7 | | money in Golden Spring New York? |\n| 8 | A | No. |\n| 9 | Q | What corporate position does Yanping Wang |\n| 10 | Hold? | |\n| 11 | A | Officer and director. |\n| 12 | Q | Is Yanping Wang the president of Golden |\n| 13 | Spring New York? | |\n| 14 | A | Yes. |\n| 15 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any other |\n| 16 | corporate officers? | |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | Who are they? |\n| 19 | A | I don't remember clearly about their |\n| 20 | names. | |\n| 21 | Q | Please tell me what you remember. |\n| 22 | A | What -- I don't remember their names |\n| 23 | | clearly and -- because I don't even remember |\n| 24 | attorney's names. | I don't want to misleading you, |\n| 25 | Holley. | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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37 |\n| 1 | Q | How many officers does Golden Spring New |\n| 2 | York have? | |\n| 3 | A | I don't remember.
Oh, I don't know. |\n| 4 | Sorry. | I don't know. |\n| 5 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any |\n| 6 | directors? | |\n| 7 | A | Yanping Wang. |\n| 8 | Q | Is Ms. Wang the only director of Golden |\n| 9 | Spring New York? | |\n| 10 | A | I don't know. |\n| 11 | Q | Where does Golden Spring New York get the |\n| 12 | | money that it uses to pay your personal expenses? |\n| 13 | A | I don't know. |\n| 14 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any |\n| 15 | employees? | |\n| 16 | A | Yes. |\n| 17 | Q | How many? |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q | Are you currently involved in any way in |\n| 20 | | the business of Golden Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A | No. |\n| 22 | Q | What does Golden Spring New York own? |\n| 23 | A | I don't know. |\n| 24 | Q | Golden Spring New York is willing to loan |\n| 25 | | you the sum of \\$8 million.
Where is it getting that |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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134 | |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|----|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 38 |\n| 1 | \\$8 million from? | | |\n| 2 | A | I don't know. | |\n| 3 | Q | Are you the person who asked Golden Spring | |\n| 4 | | New York to loan you \\$8 million? | |\n| 5 | A | No. | |\n| 6 | Q | Who asked Golden Spring New York to loan | |\n| 7 | you \\$8 million? | | |\n| 8 | A | My attorney. | |\n| 9 | Q | Which attorney? | |\n| 10 | A | Aaron Mitchell here. | |\n| 11 | Q | Are you referring to Aaron Mitchell? | |\n| 12 | A | Now I remember his name now. | |\n| 13 | | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Just for the | |\n| 14 | | record, I'm not sure Mr. Mitchell has registered an | |\n| 15 | appearance yet. | It would be appropriate if he's | |\n| 16 | | going to be here representing the debtor, if he | |\n| 17 | | (indiscernible) his appearance. | |\n| 18 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
I believe I did read Mr. | |\n| 19 | | Mitchell's name earlier today. | |\n| 20 | | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
He hasn't filed -- | |\n| 21 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
He did sign -- | |\n| 22 | | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
-- an appearance in | |\n| 23 | this matter. | | |\n| 24 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Thank you.
Can you | |\n| 25 | translate that? | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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39 |\n| 1 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't hear |\n| 2 | totally clearly. | I know it's some distance.
I |\n| 3 | don't -- | |\n| 4 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 5 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any bank |\n| 6 | accounts? | |\n| 7 | A | I don't know. |\n| 8 | Q | Do you have access to Golden Spring New |\n| 9 | | York's financial accounts? |\n| 10 | A | No. |\n| 11 | Q | Do you have authority to enter into |\n| 12 | | financial transactions on behalf of Golden Spring |\n| 13 | New York? | |\n| 14 | A | No. |\n| 15 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No.
No, that's |\n| 16 | not the question. | |\n| 17 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What was it? |\n| 18 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm happy to repeat the |\n| 19 | question. | |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 21 | Q | Do you have authority to enter into |\n| 22 | | financial transactions on behalf of Golden Spring |\n| 23 | New York? | Mr. Kwok, if you don't answer -- if you |\n| 24 | | don't understand my question -- |\n| 25 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He's asking if |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
40 |\n| 1 | he -- if I was asking if he has the right to use the |\n| 2 | -- the Golden Spring New York, the accounts for |\n| 3 | transactions.
You know. |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
That was not my question. |\n| 5 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 6 | Q
Mr. Kwok, are you authorized to enter into |\n| 7 | any kind of financial transactions on behalf of |\n| 8 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me, the interpreter |\n| 11 | might have a comment. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can you translate that, |\n| 13 | please? |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
She said |\n| 15 | that it's the trading -- trading of the financial |\n| 16 | trading -- |\n| 17 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Transaction. |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- transaction |\n| 19 | to -- |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Not trading. |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said that, |\n| 22 | no, he was not -- I was not authorized to do the |\n| 23 | transactions, financial transactions. |\n| 24 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 25 | Q
What, if anything, do you currently do for |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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134 |\n|---------------|------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
41 |\n| 1 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 2 | A | No. |\n| 3 | Q | Is Golden Spring New York funding your |\n| 4 | | son's personal living expenses? |\n| 5 | A | I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q | Is Golden Spring New York funding your |\n| 7 | | daughter's personal living expenses? |\n| 8 | A | I don't know. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you owe any money to Golden Spring New |\n| 10 | York? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | How much? |\n| 13 | A | Like more than \\$21 million. |\n| 14 | Q | How do you owe more than \\$21 million to |\n| 15 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 16 | A | Because in the past five years and I was |\n| 17 | | sued by a lot of creditors. |\n| 18 | Q | Did Golden Spring New York -- |\n| 19 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
I apologize. |\n| 20 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I just ask him |\n| 21 | to repeat. | |\n| 22 | | THE WITNESS:
In the past five years, I |\n| 23 | | was chased by Chinese Communist Party. |\n| 24 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 25 | it. | Ask -- I'm asking him to repeat it one more |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 134\n\n42\n\n| 1 | time. | | |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|--|--|\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
Short -- short answer. | | |\n| 3 | THE WITNESS:
In the past five years I was | | |\n| 4 | trapped -- trapped by some of the cases from Chinese | | |\n| 5 | Communist Party, designed by the Chinese Communist | | |\n| 6 | Party, including the case past, that case.
I need | | |\n| 7 | to -- need to pay a large amount of legal fees so | | |\n| 8 | that's why I got the support from the Golden Spring | | |\n| 9 | New York.
This is the main reason I owe \\$21 | | |\n| 10 | million. | | |\n| 11 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Interpreter | | |\n| 12 | missed that, the legal -- legal fee. | | |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, I said | | |\n| 14 | the legal fee.
I said that.
Did I say legal fee? | | |\n| 15 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I didn't think | | |\n| 16 | so, but as long as you say that. | | |\n| 17 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | |\n| 18 | Q
How much of the \\$21 million is comprised | | |\n| 19 | of legal fees? | | |\n| 20 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat | | |\n| 21 | that one again? | | |\n| 22 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | |\n| 23 | Q
How much of the \\$21 million -- | | |\n| 24 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. | | |\n| 25 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
43 |\n| 1 | Q | -- is comprised of legal fees? |\n| 2 | A | I think most of it is legal fee. |\n| 3 | Q | Why is Golden Spring New York paying your |\n| 4 | legal fees? | |\n| 5 | A | Because the Golden Spring New York is my |\n| 6 | | son and my family's company and they love me very |\n| 7 | much. | They hope -- they hoping me to live, not be |\n| 8 | | killed by the people behind me. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you have any written agreement with |\n| 10 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | What legal -- sorry.
What written |\n| 13 | | agreements do you have with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 14 | A | It's agreement for borrowing -- borrowing |\n| 15 | money. | |\n| 16 | Q | When did you enter into that agreement to |\n| 17 | borrow money? | |\n| 18 | A | A few years ago.
I know -- I don't know |\n| 19 | rough time. | |\n| 20 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't recall. |\n| 21 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
What -- |\n| 22 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What -- yeah, I |\n| 23 | | don't remember the time. |\n| 24 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 25 | Q | What are the terms of the legal agreement |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
44 |\n| 1 | with Golden Spring New York?
Sorry.
Let me |\n| 2 | rephrase that.
What are the terms of the written |\n| 3 | agreement with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 4 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 5 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Sorry.
Could you |\n| 6 | repeat the English, please? |\n| 7 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Go ahead and say that -- |\n| 8 | repeat. |\n| 9 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't |\n| 10 | remember. |\n| 11 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 12 | Q
Are you obligated under that written |\n| 13 | agreement with Golden Spring New York to pay back |\n| 14 | all of the money? |\n| 15 | A
Yes. |\n| 16 | MR. BALDIGA:
There's more to the |\n| 17 | question. |\n| 18 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 19 | Q
That Golden Spring paid to lawyers on your |\n| 20 | behalf. |\n| 21 | A
Yes. |\n| 22 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
It was only |\n| 23 | (indiscernible) of a difference in the interpreting. |\n| 24 | For example, the interpreter did not interpret under |\n| 25 | the agreement, are you obligated to make them all -- |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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134 | Page 46 of |\n|---------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 45 |\n| 1 | to pay back all the money.
All the money that is, | |\n| 2 | you know -- | |\n| 3 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. | |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
-- spent on the | |\n| 5 | lawyer. | |\n| 6 | MR. BALDIGA:
Maybe Holley can clarify | |\n| 7 | that. | |\n| 8 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yeah. | |\n| 9 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 10 | Q
I'm going to ask a long question. | I'm |\n| 11 | going to break it into parts. | |\n| 12 | Mr. Kwok, are you obligated to pay back | |\n| 13 | Golden Spring New York for all of the money that | |\n| 14 | Golden Spring New York paid to lawyers on your | |\n| 15 | behalf? | |\n| 16 | A
Yes. | |\n| 17 | Q
Is that agreement with Golden Spring New | |\n| 18 | York in writing? | |\n| 19 | A
Yes. | |\n| 20 | Q
Is that the same written agreement you | |\n| 21 | mentioned a few minutes ago? | |\n| 22 | A
Yes. | |\n| 23 | Q
Do you have more than one written | |\n| 24 | agreement with Golden Spring New York? | |\n| 25 | A
Yes. | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
46 |\n| 1 | Q
What are your other written agreements |\n| 2 | with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 3 | A
In the past week, I had a case with Logan |\n| 4 | Cheng.
The settlement with Logan Cheng, the money |\n| 5 | from -- for the settlement is the money I borrow |\n| 6 | from Golden Spring New York. |\n| 7 | Q
Do you have any other written agreements |\n| 8 | with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 9 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 10 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a fee |\n| 11 | agreement with any of the attorneys who represent |\n| 12 | you in litigation? |\n| 13 | Can you -- can you answer, Mr. Kwok? |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Any agreement |\n| 15 | with -- can you repeat one more time? |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a -- any |\n| 18 | kind of a fee agreement with any of the lawyers who |\n| 19 | represent Mr. Kwok in litigation? |\n| 20 | A
I don't know. |\n| 21 | Q
Mr. Kwok, who represents you in the |\n| 22 | litigation you filed against UBS in London? |\n| 23 | A
Attorney -- attorney office in London. |\n| 24 | Q
What is the name? |\n| 25 | A
I don't remember completely about the |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
47 |\n| 1 | English name. | |\n| 2 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have a fee |\n| 3 | | agreement with that attorney in London? |\n| 4 | A | There should be. |\n| 5 | | MR. BALDIGA:
I'm sorry.
What was the |\n| 6 | answer? | |\n| 7 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Should have. |\n| 8 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 9 | Q | Do you know if it does have enough -- have |\n| 10 | a fee agreement? | |\n| 11 | A | I'm not sure. |\n| 12 | Q | Who is the person at Golden Spring New |\n| 13 | | York who authorized payment of your litigation |\n| 14 | expenses? | |\n| 15 | A | My son. |\n| 16 | Q | Does your son have to speak with anyone |\n| 17 | | else in order to use Golden Spring New York money |\n| 18 | for your benefit? | |\n| 19 | A | Yes. |\n| 20 | Q | Who does your son need to speak with? |\n| 21 | A | He needs to talk to my family member, |\n| 22 | | which includes more than 100 family members, and |\n| 23 | | that because they have a fund. |\n| 24 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
That -- the |\n| 25 | number is 181. | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 49 of |\n|---------------|--------------------|-----------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 48 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 2 | Q | | Mr. Kwok, if your son wanted to give you | |\n| 3 | | | \\$100, would he have to seek authority from someone | |\n| 4 | | at Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 5 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 6 | Q | | When you say your son has to speak with | |\n| 7 | | | someone at Golden Spring New York, how many people | |\n| 8 | | does he need to speak with? | | |\n| 9 | A | I don't know details. | | |\n| 10 | Q | | With respect to the \\$8 million that Golden | |\n| 11 | | | Spring New York is willing to loan you, did your son | |\n| 12 | | | have to obtain consent of other people at Golden | |\n| 13 | | | Spring New York for that transaction? | |\n| 14 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 15 | Q | | Have you ever been to the office of Golden | |\n| 16 | | Spring New York in New York City? | | |\n| 17 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 18 | Q | | How often do you go to the Golden Spring | |\n| 19 | | New York office in New York City? | | |\n| 20 | A | Not -- not fixed. | Sometimes I go there a | |\n| 21 | few times a month. | | Sometimes I haven't -- I haven't | |\n| 22 | | gone there for a few months. | | |\n| 23 | Q | | When was the last time you went to the | |\n| 24 | | Golden Spring New York office? | | |\n| 25 | A | Yesterday. | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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134 | | |\n|---------------|-------------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|--|--|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
49 | | |\n| 1 | Q | Why did you go? | | |\n| 2 | A | For preparing today's meeting. | | |\n| 3 | Q | Did your son speak with Yanping Wang about | | |\n| 4 | the \\$8 million loan? | | | |\n| 5 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 6 | Q | Did you negotiate the terms of the \\$8 | | |\n| 7 | million loan from Golden Spring New York? | | | |\n| 8 | A | No. | | |\n| 9 | Q | Who was the person who negotiated the \\$8 | | |\n| 10 | | million loan on your behalf? | | |\n| 11 | A | My attorney. | | |\n| 12 | Q | Which attorney? | | |\n| 13 | A | Aaron Mitchell. | | |\n| 14 | Q | Who did Attorney Aaron Mitchell negotiate | | |\n| 15 | | with at Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 16 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat | | |\n| 17 | one? | | | |\n| 18 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 19 | Q | Who did Attorney Aaron Mitchell negotiate | | |\n| 20 | | with at Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 21 | A | I don't know.
My son. | | |\n| 22 | Q | Did you borrow the sum of \\$1 million from | | |\n| 23 | | Lamp Capital, LLC in February 2022? | | |\n| 24 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 25 | Q | Is that loan from Lamp Capital, LLC in | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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134 |\n|---------------|---------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
50 |\n| 1 | writing? | |\n| 2 | A | No. |\n| 3 | Q | What are the loan terms of the loan from |\n| 4 | Lamp Capital? | |\n| 5 | A | I don't know detail. |\n| 6 | Q | Who are the members of Lamp Capital, LLC? |\n| 7 | A | My son. |\n| 8 | Q | Are there any other members of Lamp |\n| 9 | Capital, LLC? | |\n| 10 | A | I don't know. |\n| 11 | Q | Who is the managing member of Lamp |\n| 12 | Capital, LLC? | |\n| 13 | A | I don't know. |\n| 14 | Q | Who was the person at Lamp Capital who |\n| 15 | | authorized the loan? |\n| 16 | A | My son. |\n| 17 | Q | What are the assets of Lamp Capital, LLC? |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q | What does Lamp Capital own? |\n| 20 | A | I don't know. |\n| 21 | Q | Have you ever funded Lamp Capital in any |\n| 22 | way? | |\n| 23 | A | No. |\n| 24 | Q | Have you ever invested any money in Lamp |\n| 25 | Capital, LLC? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
51 |\n| 1 | A | No. |\n| 2 | Q | Why did Lamp Capital loan you the \\$1 |\n| 3 | | million and not Golden Spring New York? |\n| 4 | A | I don't know. |\n| 5 | Q | What is the source of the \\$1 million that |\n| 6 | | Lamp Capital loaned to you? |\n| 7 | A | I don't know. |\n| 8 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Why don't we take a five |\n| 9 | | minute break for the restroom?
We'll reconvene |\n| 10 | | actually, at 12:10. |\n| 11 | (Recess) | |\n| 12 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
We are back on the record |\n| 13 | | after a short break. |\n| 14 | | Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath. |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 16 | Q | Mr. Kwok, were you involved in the |\n| 17 | | selection of the lawyers who represent you in your |\n| 18 | action in London? | |\n| 19 | A | Yes. |\n| 20 | Q | Did your counsel in London request a |\n| 21 | retainer? | |\n| 22 | A | Yes. |\n| 23 | Q | And did you pay your counsel in London a |\n| 24 | retainer? | |\n| 25 | A | Yes. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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134 |\n|---------------|-----------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
52 |\n| 1 | Q | How much? |\n| 2 | A | 300,000 pound. |\n| 3 | Q | And when was that 300,000 pound retainer |\n| 4 | paid? | |\n| 5 | A | Roughly two years ago. |\n| 6 | Q | Who funded the retainer? |\n| 7 | A | My son helped to pay -- pay that. |\n| 8 | Q | Did your son pay all of the retainer? |\n| 9 | A | Yes. |\n| 10 | Q | Did your son pay the retainer out of his |\n| 11 | personal funds? | |\n| 12 | A | Should be from the company, England. |\n| 13 | Q | What was the name of the company who paid |\n| 14 | the retainer? | |\n| 15 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 16 | Q | Did Golden Spring New York pay the |\n| 17 | | retainer to your London counsel? |\n| 18 | A | I don't remember details because other |\n| 19 | | than the retainer and the other -- a few more |\n| 20 | | payments in -- you know, after. |\n| 21 | Q | Mr. Kwok, if you wanted to go buy a pair |\n| 22 | | of shoes, how would you pay for a pair of shoes? |\n| 23 | A | I will ask Golden Spring New York to pay |\n| 24 | for it. | |\n| 25 | Q | And how would that process work? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 54 of |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------|------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 53 |\n| 1 | A | | And I will talk to the director and E Wa | |\n| 2 | | | Wang (ph) and ask her to contact -- talk to my son | |\n| 3 | | and to pay for the shoes. | | |\n| 4 | Q | | How does the shoe company get the money? | |\n| 5 | The shoe store. | | | |\n| 6 | A | I don't know. | Usually, it's E Wa Wang and | |\n| 7 | | | communicate, because my English ability is not | |\n| 8 | | capable to communicate. | | |\n| 9 | Q | | If you went to a store, tried on shoes, | |\n| 10 | | | and wanted to take them home from the store, how | |\n| 11 | | would you pay for the shoes? | | |\n| 12 | A | | In the recent few years I basically never | |\n| 13 | | bought a pair of shoes. | | |\n| 14 | Q | | What was the last thing you paid for? | |\n| 15 | A | | Recently, I didn't go to buy anything. | |\n| 16 | | MR. BALDIGA: | I'm sorry. | Could you repeat |\n| 17 | that? | | | |\n| 18 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Recently, I | |\n| 19 | | didn't go to buy anything. | | |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 21 | Q | | My question wasn't recently. | My question |\n| 22 | | | was, what was the last thing that you purchased? | |\n| 23 | A | I don't remember. | | |\n| 24 | Q | | Do you ever eat in a restaurant? | |\n| 25 | A | Recent years, I didn't. | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 55 of |\n|---------------|-----------------|------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|----------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 54 |\n| 1 | Q | | Before COVID 19, did you eat in | |\n| 2 | restaurants? | | | |\n| 3 | A | | Very rare because I was afraid to be | |\n| 4 | | | killed by the people behind me, because I was always | |\n| 5 | | in the process getting chased. | | |\n| 6 | Q | | When you ate in a restaurant, were you the | |\n| 7 | | person who paid the bill? | | |\n| 8 | A | | I don't have money to pay, so that's why I | |\n| 9 | don't go there. | | | |\n| 10 | Q | | Mr. Kwok, if you wanted to go buy a cup of | |\n| 11 | | coffee, how would you pay for it? | | |\n| 12 | A | | I never bought a cup of coffee. | I was -- |\n| 13 | | | I'm afraid the people behind me might poison me in | |\n| 14 | the coffee. | | | |\n| 15 | Q | | Mr. Kwok, if you wanted to buy water, | |\n| 16 | | | you're out and about and you want to buy water, how | |\n| 17 | | would you pay for it? | | |\n| 18 | A | | Well, since 2107, I don't -- I didn't go | |\n| 19 | | out to buy water outside. | | |\n| 20 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: | There was a | |\n| 21 | | | (indiscernible) difference in the nuance. | |\n| 22 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | Can you -- can |\n| 23 | | you repeat it -- can you repeat -- | | |\n| 24 | | THE WITNESS: | Since 2017, I never went | |\n| 25 | | | outside, walk around, and then buy water or coffee. | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
55 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 2 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you have any interest in any |\n| 3 | mutual funds? | |\n| 4 | A | No. |\n| 5 | Q | Do you own any bonds? |\n| 6 | A | No. |\n| 7 | Q | Do you own any publically traded stock in |\n| 8 | any company? | |\n| 9 | A | No. |\n| 10 | Q | Do you own any cars? |\n| 11 | A | No. |\n| 12 | Q | Do you have access to any cars? |\n| 13 | A | Yes. |\n| 14 | Q | And whose cars do you have access to? |\n| 15 | A | My son's and Golden Springs. |\n| 16 | Q | Does Golden Spring provide you with a car |\n| 17 | | that's yours to use? |\n| 18 | A | Yes. |\n| 19 | Q | What kind of car is that? |\n| 20 | A | Maybach |\n| 21 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Maybach. |\n| 22 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Huh? |\n| 23 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Maybach. |\n| 24 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Maybach?
Okay. |\n| 25 | | I don't know the name of it. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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56 |\n| 1 | | THE WITNESS:
Maybach. |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 3 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you have a driver's license? |\n| 4 | A | I have a Hong Kong's driver's license. |\n| 5 | Q | Do you drive in the United States? |\n| 6 | A | Almost no. |\n| 7 | Q | When you do drive, whose car do you drive? |\n| 8 | A | Golden Spring's. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you keep a car at your Greenwich |\n| 10 | residence? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | And what car is that? |\n| 13 | A | Maybach. |\n| 14 | Q | Do you own any aircraft? |\n| 15 | A | No. |\n| 16 | Q | Have you ever owned any aircraft? |\n| 17 | A | Before, yes. |\n| 18 | Q | When did you own aircraft? |\n| 19 | A | Probably 2010 to 2016. |\n| 20 | Q | How many air craft did you own? |\n| 21 | A | One. |\n| 22 | Q | And what was it? |\n| 23 | A | Airbus 319.
319. |\n| 24 | Q | And what happened to the Airbus 319? |\n| 25 | A | It was confiscated by UBS and the Chinese |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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57 |\n| 1 | Communist Party. | |\n| 2 | Q | Okay.
Do you own any water craft? |\n| 3 | A | No. |\n| 4 | Q | Who owns the yacht known as the Lady May? |\n| 5 | A | My daughter. |\n| 6 | Q | Does your daughter own the Lady May in her |\n| 7 | personal name? | |\n| 8 | A | Should be from a company. |\n| 9 | Q | And what is the name of the company that |\n| 10 | owns the Lady May? | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q | Where is the Lady May currently? |\n| 13 | A | I don't know. |\n| 14 | Q | Since the bankruptcy filing, have you |\n| 15 | | asked your daughter to return the Lady May to New |\n| 16 | York? | |\n| 17 | A | I did ask her and asked her to talk to her |\n| 18 | | attorney to return the boat back to New York. |\n| 19 | Q | When did you have that conversation? |\n| 20 | A | Last month, after the court date.
After |\n| 21 | met with you. | |\n| 22 | Q | And what did your daughter say? |\n| 23 | A | She said that she would talk to her |\n| 24 | | attorney and then talk to my attorney. |\n| 25 | Q | Did your daughter agree to have the Lady |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 59 of |\n|---------------|--------------------|------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 58 |\n| 1 | | May return to New York? | | |\n| 2 | A | | She was not willing to talk to me in any | |\n| 3 | detail. | | She want -- she wanted to talk to her | |\n| 4 | attorney. | | | |\n| 5 | Q | | Did your daughter say no to your request | |\n| 6 | | | that she return the Lady May to New York? | |\n| 7 | A | | No, he didn't -- she didn't. | |\n| 8 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: | | The question was |\n| 9 | | not completely interpreted. | | |\n| 10 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | I know, but she |\n| 11 | | | -- she already -- he already answered and -- | |\n| 12 | | MR. BALDIGA: | Wait until he finishes. | |\n| 13 | | THE WITNESS: | No, he -- no. | |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 15 | Q | | Mr. Kwok, do you own or have an interest | |\n| 16 | in any trust? | | | |\n| 17 | A | No. | | |\n| 18 | Q | | Are you the beneficiary of any trusts? | |\n| 19 | A | No. | | |\n| 20 | Q | This is a long question. | | Mr. Kwok, where |\n| 21 | | | is the \\$12,000 check paid to you in connection with | |\n| 22 | | your lawsuit against Baosheng Guo? | | |\n| 23 | A | | It's in attorney's escrow account. | |\n| 24 | Q | | What is the name of the attorney who is | |\n| 25 | holding the check? | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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59 |\n| 1 | A | I can't pronounce the attorney's name |\n| 2 | completely. | |\n| 3 | Q | What is the attorney's first name? |\n| 4 | A | I cannot -- I'm not able to read out the - |\n| 5 | | - the pronounce his name. |\n| 6 | Q | Is the attorney who's holding the check |\n| 7 | | the same attorney who represented you in that |\n| 8 | lawsuit? | |\n| 9 | A | It should be. |\n| 10 | Q | On your Schedule A-B, you did not disclose |\n| 11 | | that \\$12,000 check.
Why? |\n| 12 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Wait for a question.
No. |\n| 13 | | Could he interpret that? |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 15 | Q | Why did you not disclose that \\$12,000 |\n| 16 | check? | |\n| 17 | A | My attorney thinks because the money is |\n| 18 | | not in my account, so I'm not allowed to -- we're |\n| 19 | | not -- I'm not supposed to disclose that. |\n| 20 | Q | Okay.
Mr. Kwok, do you have any patents? |\n| 21 | A | No. |\n| 22 | Q | Do you have any copyrights? |\n| 23 | A | No. |\n| 24 | Q | Do you have any intellectual property of |\n| 25 | any kind? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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60 |\n| 1 | A
No. |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me.
Holley, I'm not |\n| 3 | sure if you're going to come back to it, but there |\n| 4 | is a reference to the \\$12,000. |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I did see that. |\n| 6 | MR. BALDIGA:
Oh, you said he didn't |\n| 7 | disclose it. |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
He did not.
It's not in |\n| 9 | response to the questions on Schedule A-B. |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
It's right there. |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We can disagree about |\n| 12 | whether or not it's disclosed, but it's my position |\n| 13 | that it's not disclosed.
I understand you might |\n| 14 | take a different position. |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 16 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own any interest in a |\n| 17 | company called Ace Decade Holdings Limited? |\n| 18 | A
Yes. |\n| 19 | Q
What is the nature of your ownership |\n| 20 | interest in Ace Decade Holdings Limited? |\n| 21 | A
So I have the interest and ask for UBS to |\n| 22 | pay back \\$500 million.
That kind of interest. |\n| 23 | Q
Are you the only legal owner of Ace Decade |\n| 24 | Holdings Limited? |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Are you the |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 62 of |\n|---------------|------------------------|-----------------------------------|---------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 61 |\n| 1 | | | only -- can you repeat that question? | |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 3 | Q | | Are you the only legal owner of Ace | |\n| 4 | Decades? | | | |\n| 5 | A | | I am a legal representing owner. | |\n| 6 | Q | | Are there any other owners of Ace Decade? | |\n| 7 | A | No. | | |\n| 8 | Q | | When did you become an owner of Ace Decade | |\n| 9 | Holdings Limited? | | | |\n| 10 | A | At the end of 2014. | | |\n| 11 | Q | | This is a long question.
In your | |\n| 12 | | | litigation in London against UBS, you are an | |\n| 13 | | individual plaintiff. | What is the basis for your | |\n| 14 | | claim as an individual plaintiff? | | |\n| 15 | A | | Because I'm the 100 percent representative | |\n| 16 | for Ace Decade. | | | |\n| 17 | Q | | In the litigation against UBS in London, | |\n| 18 | | | there is an allegation that Ace Decade gave \\$500 | |\n| 19 | | million to Dawn State Limited. | Where did Ace Decade | |\n| 20 | get the \\$500 million? | | | |\n| 21 | A | I loan from my family. | | |\n| 22 | Q | | Did you borrow money from your family and | |\n| 23 | | give it to Ace Decade? | | |\n| 24 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 25 | | MS. CLAIBORN: | I don't think that was -- | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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62 |\n| 1 | let's start over, because I don't think that was -- |\n| 2 | that was -- |\n| 3 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yeah, I thought |\n| 4 | that it was -- |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- that was the question, |\n| 6 | because it didn't involve Dawn State -- |\n| 7 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yes. |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- so I'm going to start |\n| 9 | over. |\n| 10 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
Where did you get the money to give to Ace |\n| 12 | Decade, the 500 million? |\n| 13 | MR. BALDIGA:
I don't think he said he did |\n| 14 | that.
I think he said his family did that, but you |\n| 15 | can ask that, but I -- |\n| 16 | THE WITNESS:
From my family. |\n| 17 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 18 | Q
Who specifically in your family gave you |\n| 19 | money that you then gave to Ace Decade? |\n| 20 | A
John Way (ph). |\n| 21 | Q
Who is John Way? |\n| 22 | A
A member from my family. |\n| 23 | Q
Is he a relative of yours? |\n| 24 | A
It's my older brother's cousin or -- |\n| 25 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Son-in-law. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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63 |\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Son-in-law? |\n| 2 | Okay.
Sorry. |\n| 3 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 4 | Q
On your Schedule A-B, you list a possible |\n| 5 | malpractice claim against Boise Schiller.
Can you |\n| 6 | please explain what that is? |\n| 7 | A
He was the one -- he was the one |\n| 8 | represented me in New York to have a lawsuit against |\n| 9 | UBS.
He gave a lot of forced documents to the Court |\n| 10 | and without my permission.
He also threatened my |\n| 11 | family.
He also threaten myself after drinking.
He |\n| 12 | brought a lot of loss to us, including providing any |\n| 13 | English/Chinese translated documents to me before |\n| 14 | present them to the -- to the lawyer, or to the |\n| 15 | judge.
That's why I -- that's why we sue him. |\n| 16 | Q
Have you hired an attorney to represent |\n| 17 | you in that malpractice action? |\n| 18 | A
My son is in the process of dealing with |\n| 19 | that. |\n| 20 | Q
Why is your son talking to lawyers about |\n| 21 | your malpractice claim? |\n| 22 | A
Because I need to borrow money from him. |\n| 23 | Q
Has a lawyer been selected? |\n| 24 | A
Not yet. |\n| 25 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own an interest in any |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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64 |\n| 1 | company aside from Ace Decade? |\n| 2 | A
No, but the -- I own the Bravo Luck, the |\n| 3 | apartment, only for a few months, some of the |\n| 4 | interest.
And because the apartment is a co-op, so |\n| 5 | they used my name to buy the apartment after I -- |\n| 6 | after we bought apartment, and then we returned the |\n| 7 | stock interest back. |\n| 8 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
I'm sorry.
He must |\n| 9 | have spoken for 30, 40 seconds.
Clearly said more |\n| 10 | than that.
Is there a more fulsome translation? |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Did I miss |\n| 12 | anything? |\n| 13 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Let me see if I can follow |\n| 14 | up. |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 16 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own, currently, an |\n| 17 | interest in Bravo Luck? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own an interest in any |\n| 20 | limited liability company? |\n| 21 | A
No. |\n| 22 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own an interest in any |\n| 23 | partnership? |\n| 24 | A
I used to own the plane company called the |\n| 25 | Orange or Shiny Time, but that was before and |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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65 |\n| 1 | | doesn't exist anymore. |\n| 2 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you currently own an interest |\n| 3 | in any partnership? | |\n| 4 | A | No. |\n| 5 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you currently own an interest |\n| 6 | | in any joint venture? |\n| 7 | A | No. |\n| 8 | Q | Other than Ace Decade, do you own an |\n| 9 | | interest in any other company right now? |\n| 10 | A | No.
I only owned the Orange and Shiny |\n| 11 | | Time before, but not right now. |\n| 12 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have a |\n| 13 | | security interest in any of your litigation? |\n| 14 | A | I owe them money. |\n| 15 | Q | Have you granted to Golden Spring New |\n| 16 | | York, any interest in any of your assets, anything |\n| 17 | that you own? | |\n| 18 | A | No. |\n| 19 | Q | So if you were to win a lawsuit against |\n| 20 | | Golden Spring -- sorry.
Wrong name.
So if you were |\n| 21 | | to win a lawsuit against UBS, would any of the money |\n| 22 | | that you win have to be paid to Golden Spring? |\n| 23 | A | Yes. |\n| 24 | Q | And how much would that be? |\n| 25 | A | Before it was 2,200 1 million, or -- |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | | Page 67 of |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------|----------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | | 66 |\n| 1 | | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: | 21 million. | |\n| 2 | | THE WITNESS: | 21 million. | 21 million and | |\n| 3 | plus now. | | Probably it's about 300 million. | | 30 |\n| 4 | million. | Or 30 million. | Yeah. | | |\n| 5 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | | |\n| 6 | Q | | Is there a document that says that any | | |\n| 7 | | | litigation winnings you receive need to be paid to | | |\n| 8 | Golden Spring? | | | | |\n| 9 | A | Yes. | | | |\n| 10 | Q | | What is the name of that document? | | |\n| 11 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | I'm going to | |\n| 12 | | ask him to repeat it. | | | |\n| 13 | | I didn't get it. | I just ask him to break | | |\n| 14 | | | it down, then I didn't hear what -- | | |\n| 15 | | THE WITNESS: | I have a case in DC. | | There |\n| 16 | | | is a attorney office representing me for political | | |\n| 17 | | | asylum and it was attacked by the cyber attack from | | |\n| 18 | | | the Chinese Communists, and so they -- the attorney | | |\n| 19 | | | office was closed, and they gave my personal | | |\n| 20 | | | information to the communist party, and then I sue | | |\n| 21 | them. | | And that litigation fee, attorney fee, came | | |\n| 22 | | from Golden Spring New York. | | | |\n| 23 | | | I ask for the settlement for 50,000 -- \\$50 | | |\n| 24 | million. | | If I won that money, I will give the money | | |\n| 25 | | | back to Golden Springs for the money they supported | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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67 |\n| 1 | me for attorney fees. |\n| 2 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Mr. Kwok did not |\n| 3 | say settlement.
Mr. Kwok just say, for a claim, not |\n| 4 | a settlement. |\n| 5 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
You're asking |\n| 6 | for \\$50 million.
Yeah.
He ask for \\$50 million for |\n| 7 | that lawsuit, and if he win -- if he wins the money, |\n| 8 | then he will return the money back to the Golden |\n\n9 Spring New York.\n\n10 BY MS. CLAIBORN:\n\n11 Q My question was, what was the name of the 12 document under which you would be repaying Golden 13 Spring for your litigation?\n\n A The document is the document I -- THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Can you repeat 16 that one? THE WITNESS: The agreement is -- it's the\n\n18 agreement, I borrowed the money from Golden Spring 19 New York to sue the attorney office.\n\n20 BY MS. CLAIBORN:\n\n Q And what is the name of the agreement? A I don't remember. Q Is it a promissory note? A I don't remember. Q Is it a contract?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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68 |\n| 1 | A | I don't remember clearly. |\n| 2 | Q | Who prepared the document? |\n| 3 | A | Attorney. |\n| 4 | Q | What was the name of the attorney who |\n| 5 | | prepared the document? |\n| 6 | A | Melissa. |\n| 7 | Q | What is Melissa's last name? |\n| 8 | A | I don't know. |\n| 9 | Q | Did Melissa the attorney represent you in |\n| 10 | | drafting that document? |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | And who represented Golden Spring in |\n| 13 | | drafting that document? |\n| 14 | A | I don't know. |\n| 15 | Q | Did Golden Spring have any attorney? |\n| 16 | A | Yes. |\n| 17 | Q | You just don't remember who it was? |\n| 18 | A | They have a lot of attorneys. |\n| 19 | Q | Is there more than one written agreement |\n| 20 | | under which you owe money to Golden Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A | Yes. |\n| 22 | Q | How many agreements are there? |\n| 23 | A | Kind of two or three, or three or four.
I |\n| 24 | | don't remember clearly. |\n| 25 | Q | And does someone keep track of the money |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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69 |\n| 1 | that you borrow from Golden Spring New York? |\n| 2 | A
My attorney will write it down.
We record |\n| 3 | it. |\n| 4 | Q
What's the name of that attorney? |\n| 5 | A
Aaron Mitchell. |\n| 6 | Q
Did you say Aaron Mitchell? |\n| 7 | A
Oh, yes. |\n| 8 | Q
And how does Aaron Mitchell keep track of |\n| 9 | the monies that you borrow from Golden Spring New |\n| 10 | York? |\n| 11 | A
In detail, I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q
Does anyone who is employed by Golden |\n| 13 | Spring New York keep track of the money that you |\n| 14 | borrow from Golden Spring New York? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Have you ever seen a document from |\n| 17 | Attorney Aaron Mitchell showing how much you owe to |\n| 18 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 19 | A
This is the thing I -- it's something |\n| 20 | between me and my attorney I shouldn't answer. |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
Can I -- I mean -- |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I don't think the question |\n| 23 | involves -- |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
You can -- |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- a privileged answer. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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70 |\n| 1 | MR. BALDIGA:
That's -- give me a second. |\n| 2 | You could answer that last question yes or no, so if |\n| 3 | you ask again, I think he will say yes or no, and |\n| 4 | then we can take it step by step. |\n| 5 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 6 | Q
Have you ever seen a document prepared by |\n| 7 | Attorney Mitchell that shows you how much money you |\n| 8 | have borrowed from Golden Spring? |\n| 9 | MR. BALDIGA:
Wait.
Wait, my instruction |\n| 10 | needs to be interpreted. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What? |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can you -- |\n| 13 | MR. BALDIGA:
You need to instruct -- |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Just please state it and |\n| 15 | he'll reinterpret. |\n| 16 | MR. BALDIGA:
Please, tell the witness |\n| 17 | what -- I am telling the witness he may answer yes |\n| 18 | or no only. |\n| 19 | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 20 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I have other questions, but |\n| 21 | given the hour of the day, I thought that we could |\n| 22 | take a short break and then reconvene with creditors |\n| 23 | being given the opportunity to ask questions. |\n| 24 | I suggest we reconvene at 1:15. |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Is that okay? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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71 |\n| 1 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
Thank you.
We'll |\n| 2 | reconvene at 1:15. | |\n| 3 | (Recess.) | |\n| 4 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
The recording has been |\n| 5 | reconvened. | We are back in session after a short |\n| 6 | | break and Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath. |\n| 7 | | And that this point, Mr. Wolman has some |\n| 8 | | questions for you, Mr. Kwok. |\n| 9 | | EXAMINATION BY MR. WOLMAN: |\n| 10 | Q | Good afternoon, Mr. Kwok. |\n| 11 | | On March 21st I was asking you some |\n| 12 | | questions about a prior deposition, specifically |\n| 13 | | about the times you had invoked your rights under |\n| 14 | | the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. |\n| 15 | | On April 1st, 2021, were you being |\n| 16 | | investigated for any crime? |\n| 17 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
April 21st? |\n| 18 | | MR. WOLMAN:
April 1st, 2021. |\n| 19 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 20 | that question, sir? | |\n| 21 | Q | Were you being investigated for any crime? |\n| 22 | A | From SET -- American SET and the |\n| 23 | | investigating GTV and they can communicate with our |\n| 24 | attorney. | |\n| 25 | Q | Are you referring to the Securities and |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | | Page 73 of |\n|---------------|----------------------|----------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|--------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | | 72 |\n| 1 | Exchange Commission? | | | | |\n| 2 | A | Yes. | | | |\n| 3 | Q | | And what exactly were they investigating? | | |\n| 4 | | MR. BALDIGA: | Objection. | | |\n| 5 | | | I need to ask whether this would reveal | | |\n| 6 | | privileged information. | | | |\n| 7 | | | Would your answer to the last question be | | |\n| 8 | | information from your attorneys? | | | |\n| 9 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: | | Can I just -- | |\n| 10 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | She wants to | |\n| 11 | help. | | | | |\n| 12 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: | | Because he's not | |\n| 13 | -- | | | | |\n| 14 | | MS. CLAIBORN: | I think you should just try | | |\n| 15 | | | again. Mr. Baldiga, maybe you can just repeat | | |\n| 16 | | | yourself and Mr. Jack, you can try again. | | |\n| 17 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | Can you repeat | |\n| 18 | | what you want to say? | | | |\n| 19 | | MR. BALDIGA: | Mr. Wolman asked you what | | |\n| 20 | | you were being investigated for. | | Is the information | |\n| 21 | | | that you know, was that provided to you by your | | |\n| 22 | attorneys? | | | | |\n| 23 | | THE WITNESS: Yes. | | | |\n| 24 | | MR. BALDIGA: | And to answer the question | | |\n| 25 | | | would you have to divulge what you were told by your | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 74 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n\n134\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
73 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | attorneys? |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Have to be what? |\n| 3 | Divulged? |\n| 4 | MR. BALDIGA:
Would you have to say what |\n| 5 | you were told by your attorneys? |\n| 6 | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 7 | MR. BALDIGA:
Then I instruct the witness |\n| 8 | not to answer on the basis of the attorney/client |\n| 9 | privilege. |\n| 10 | MR. WOLMAN:
That is not attorney/client |\n| 11 | information. |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
Hold on.
Let it be |\n| 13 | interpreted. |\n| 14 | MR. WOLMAN:
Information learned from an |\n| 15 | attorney that is not specifically a communication |\n| 16 | for the purpose of giving advice or receiving |\n| 17 | information is not privileged information.
If your |\n| 18 | attorneys says the sky is blue, that is not a |\n| 19 | privileged communication. |\n| 20 | MR. BALDIGA:
His is arguing with me. |\n| 21 | There is not question to you. |\n| 22 | MR. WOLMAN:
Mr. Baldiga, will you |\n| 23 | continue to instruct your client to improperly |\n| 24 | invoke the attorney/client privilege? |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
I'll instruct on a question |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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74 |\n| 1 | by question basis. |\n| 2 | MR. WOLMAN:
And this question, will you |\n| 3 | maintain the instruction? |\n| 4 | Mr. Kwok, are you refusing to answer my |\n| 5 | question? |\n| 6 | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 7 | MR. WOLMAN:
And on what basis are you |\n| 8 | refusing to answer my question? |\n| 9 | MR. BALDIGA:
On the basis of instruction |\n| 10 | from counsel on account of attorney/client |\n| 11 | privilege. |\n| 12 | THE WITNESS:
Because I can't answer the |\n| 13 | question because of the privilege between the |\n| 14 | attorney and me. |\n| 15 | BY MR. WOLMAN: |\n| 16 | Q
Have you been formally charged by the |\n| 17 | Securities and Exchange Commission? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
Has the Securities and Exchange Commission |\n| 20 | closed its investigation of you? |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
I have to ask again, you can |\n| 22 | answer that yes or no, if you know. |\n| 23 | A
No. |\n| 24 | Q
Has the Securities and Exchange Commission |\n| 25 | brought any charges against GTV? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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75 |\n| 1 | A | I don't know. |\n| 2 | Q | Have you been in the past five years |\n| 3 | | subject to an audit by the U.S. Internal Revenue |\n| 4 | Service? | |\n| 5 | A | No. |\n| 6 | Q | In the last five years have you been |\n| 7 | | subject to an audit by the New York State taxing |\n| 8 | authority? | |\n| 9 | A | No. |\n| 10 | Q | When did you become a resident of |\n| 11 | Connecticut? | On what date? |\n| 12 | A | The beginning of March, 2020, roughly. |\n| 13 | Q | To be clear, you say you were a resident |\n| 14 | | of Connecticut in March of 2020? |\n| 15 | A | Yes. |\n| 16 | Q | So how come in Mr. Cheng, my client's, |\n| 17 | | lawsuit against you you signed a statement under |\n| 18 | | oath indicating that you were a resident of the |\n| 19 | | Sherry Netherlands Hotel? |\n| 20 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 21 | that, counsel? | |\n| 22 | Q | If you were a resident of Connecticut in |\n| 23 | | March of 2020, you signed a statement under oath in |\n| 24 | | Mr. Cheng's lawsuit against you that you resided at |\n| 25 | | the Sherry Netherlands Hotel. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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76 |\n| 1 | A | I don't 100 percent live in Connecticut, |\n| 2 | | but sometimes I live in New York also. |\n| 3 | Q | When did you start living in Connecticut |\n| 4 | | more than 50 percent of the time? |\n| 5 | A | Since March, 2020. |\n| 6 | Q | You had some assets you claim seized by |\n| 7 | China, correct? | |\n| 8 | A | It's not mine. It's from my family.
It's |\n| 9 | my family's. | |\n| 10 | Q | Have you ever had assets seized by China? |\n| 11 | A | You're talking about under my name? |\n| 12 | Q | Yes. |\n| 13 | A | No. |\n| 14 | Q | All right.
In 2010, what was your |\n| 15 | | personal net worth? |\n| 16 | A | No. |\n| 17 | Q | That wasn't a yes or no question. |\n| 18 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can I repeat |\n| 19 | | your question again? |\n| 20 | | MR. WOLMAN:
Yes. |\n| 21 | Q | In 2010 what was your personal net worth? |\n| 22 | A | I didn't have any property. |\n| 23 | Q | Have you ever had property in your name |\n| 24 | | over \\$1 million and by that I include where you |\n| 25 | | owned an interest in a company that interest, |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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77 |\n| 1 | | therefore, contributes to your work? |\n| 2 | A | Before 2000, yes. |\n| 3 | Q | Okay.
What was your net worth in 1999? |\n| 4 | A | I never calculate in detail. |\n| 5 | Q | What would you estimate it as? |\n| 6 | A | Roughly around 100 million. |\n| 7 | Q | And what happened to that \\$100 million |\n| 8 | worth of assets? | |\n| 9 | A | Because in 2000 I got a Hong Kong passport |\n| 10 | | and in China and they don't allow me to have any |\n| 11 | property, asset. | |\n| 12 | Q | Have you abandoned all claims to whatever |\n| 13 | | assets you had in 1999? |\n| 14 | A | Yes. |\n| 15 | Q | Why have you abandoned your claims? |\n| 16 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Abandoned what? |\n| 17 | Q | Your claim to those assets? |\n| 18 | A | Because I was not allowed to have any |\n| 19 | assets in China. | |\n| 20 | Q | If China changed its policy, would you |\n| 21 | | have any right or ability to get those assets back? |\n| 22 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
If you know, you |\n| 23 | can answer. | |\n| 24 | A | I don't know. |\n| 25 | Q | What was your largest asset in 1999? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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78 |\n| 1 | A
There was the assets from a hotel, equity |\n| 2 | interest of a hotel in China. |\n| 3 | Q
And who holds that interest now? |\n| 4 | A
Chinese Community Party. |\n| 5 | Q
Is it held in the name of the Party? |\n| 6 | A
China only has one autocrat government, |\n| 7 | the party, and our family's assets were taken -- |\n| 8 | were seized by them. |\n| 9 | Q
How did your son become wealthy enough to |\n| 10 | fund Golden Spring and Lamp Capital? |\n| 11 | A
Because he started very early to do |\n| 12 | investment and also bring brand names to China. |\n| 13 | Q
Where did he get the money for his |\n| 14 | investment? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Ms. Claiborn asked you about agreements |\n| 17 | with Golden Spring and you could not identify who |\n| 18 | the lawyer was for Golden Spring.
Do you remember |\n| 19 | that? |\n| 20 | A
True. |\n| 21 | Q
I'd like to try to refresh -- to ask you |\n| 22 | potentially to refresh your memory was it a lawyer |\n| 23 | named Daniel? |\n| 24 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He's asking |\n| 25 | Daniel? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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79 |\n| 1 | Q
Yes, Daniel Pedolsky. |\n| 2 | A
Yes, probably and he used to be Golden |\n| 3 | Spring attorney and my personal attorney. |\n| 4 | Q
Did you execute a waiver of conflict of |\n| 5 | interest with Mr. Pedolsky? |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 7 | that? |\n| 8 | Q
Did you execute a waiver of conflict of |\n| 9 | interest with Attorney Daniel Pedolsky? |\n| 10 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 11 | Q
You mentioned two or three -- or three or |\n| 12 | four agreements with Golden Spring. Can you identify |\n| 13 | each of those agreements? |\n| 14 | A
I'm not sure. |\n| 15 | Q
Can you describe the purpose of each of |\n| 16 | those agreements? |\n| 17 | A
That loan from Golden Spring is to have a |\n| 18 | settlement with Logan Cheng. |\n| 19 | Q
And did you take out a loan to pay the |\n| 20 | lawyers to sue Logan Cheng? |\n| 21 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 22 | Q
And what were the other agreements, other |\n| 23 | than with Mr. Cheng? |\n| 24 | A
From D.C. -- the attorney's office from |\n| 25 | D.C. collect (indiscernible)
I don't remember the |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 81 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n\n134\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 80 1 name. 2 MR. WOLMAN: All right. Thank you and 3 this time I have to go but thank you. I'll try to 4 dial in. 5 MS. CLAIBORN: Thank you. 6 Can I ask whoever is on the line if they 7 could mute themselves, because they can hear you 8 typing. 9 All right. Who else would like to ask 10 questions? 11 Mr. Harbach. Go ahead, Mr. Harbach. 12 MR. HARBACH: Thank you. For the record, 13 I'm David Harbach with O'Melveny and Meyers and I 14 represent PAACS. 15 EXAMINATION BY MR. HARBACH: 16 Q Mr. Kwok, I'd like to ask some clarifying 17 questions based on questions that Ms. Claiborn asked 18 you today. 19 Earlier today she asked you if you owned 20 any foreign currency and you said no. She also 21 asked you if you owned any digital currency and you 22 said no. 23 My question is have you ever ordered or 24 directed the purchase of either foreign currency or 25 digital currency on behalf of any entity?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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81 |\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 2 | that? |\n| 3 | MR. HARBACH:
Sure. |\n| 4 | Q
My question is whether you have ordered or |\n| 5 | directed the purchase of any foreign currency or any |\n| 6 | digital currency on behalf of any entity? |\n| 7 | A
What you mean direct? |\n| 8 | Q
Have you directed anyone to purchase |\n| 9 | foreign currency or digital currency? |\n| 10 | A
No. |\n| 11 | Q
Ms. Claiborn asked you a couple of |\n| 12 | questions about access to credit cards and debit |\n| 13 | cards. And I want to make sure that we have your |\n| 14 | answer clear, because she asked you not whether you |\n| 15 | had any credit cards but whether you had any access |\n| 16 | to credit cards. I want to make sure that you |\n| 17 | understand the difference. |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: He's just asking |\n| 19 | why you want to represent Ms. Holley's asked |\n| 20 | questions. |\n| 21 | MR. HARBACH:
I'm just trying to remind |\n| 22 | you of a question she asked you earlier today, sir. |\n| 23 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't |\n| 24 | understand the question. |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Mr. Baldiga's right. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 83 of |\n|---------------|-----------------|---------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 82 |\n| 1 | | There's not a question pending. | | |\n| 2 | Q | | The question is do you understand the | |\n| 3 | | | difference between having a credit card and having | |\n| 4 | | access to a credit card? | | |\n| 5 | A | I believe I don't have. | | |\n| 6 | Q | | You don't understand the difference? | |\n| 7 | A | I don't know much. | | |\n| 8 | Q | Okay. | Well, let me give you an example. | |\n| 9 | | Let's talk about the Maybach. | | |\n| 10 | | | I believe that you represented to us today | |\n| 11 | | | that you have access to the Maybach for | |\n| 12 | transportation. | | Is that correct? | |\n| 13 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 14 | Q | | But I believe it's also your position that | |\n| 15 | | you do not own the Maybach. | Isn't that right? | |\n| 16 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 17 | Q | | In other words, your position is the | |\n| 18 | | Maybach is not yours, right? | | |\n| 19 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 20 | Q | Okay. | So I use that example to illustrate | |\n| 21 | | | the example between owning something and having | |\n| 22 | | access to something. | Does that help you? | Do you |\n| 23 | | understand the difference? | | |\n| 24 | A | Now I understand you. | | |\n| 25 | Q | Okay. | Thank you.
So returning to the | |\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 84 of\n\n134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n 83 1 question about credit cards and debit cards. Do you 2 have access to any credit cards or debit cards, 3 whether or not they are yours? 4 A I don't understand the difference what he 5 means, access like if I use it myself or if I have 6 somebody else use it. 7 Q Well, let's take those one at a time. 8 Let's begin with using it yourself. Has any member 9 of your family ever provided you a credit card or a 10 credit card number to use for yourself? 11 A I never used. 12 Q The other example you mentioned was 13 perhaps a member of your family using a credit card 14 on your behalf. Is that something that has 15 happened? 16 A What do you mean represent me to use? 17 Q I'm asking about whether to your knowledge 18 any member of your family has ever used a credit 19 card or a debit card to purchase things for you? 20 A My son, my daughter, my wife. They all 21 have credit card to buy things for me. 22 THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: The witness did 23 not say that, use the credit card to buy things for 24 me. The witness said that my son, my wife bought 25 things for me.\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | | Page 85 of |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|-----------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | | 84 |\n| 1 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | Yeah, they used | |\n| 2 | | | their card and they both -- they all have it. | | They |\n| 3 | | all have the cards. | That's what he said. | | |\n| 4 | | (Repeats interpretation) | | | |\n| 5 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | Yes, I did it | |\n| 6 | right. | | | | |\n| 7 | | THE WITNESS: | And so my wife and my son | | |\n| 8 | | | and my daughter have their own cards and also other | | |\n| 9 | | | family members use their cards to buy things for me. | | |\n| 10 | Q | | Is that ever at your direction? | | |\n| 11 | A | No. | | | |\n| 12 | Q | Never. | | | |\n| 13 | A | No. | | | |\n| 14 | Q | Is it at your request? | | | |\n| 15 | A | No. | | | |\n| 16 | Q | | Is Yan Ping Wang, the same as Yvette Wang? | | |\n| 17 | A | Yes. | | | |\n| 18 | Q | | Earlier Ms. Claiborn asked you about | | |\n| 19 | | Golden Spring Hong Kong. | | | |\n| 20 | | | You told her that your son owns it. | | Do |\n| 21 | you recall that? | | | | |\n| 22 | A | Yes. | | | |\n| 23 | Q | | My question for you is since when has your | | |\n| 24 | | son owned Golden Spring Hong Kong? | | | |\n| 25 | A | I don't know. | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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85 |\n| 1 | Q
Has anyone else besides your son ever |\n| 2 | owned an interest in Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 3 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q
You also said that you didn't remember |\n| 5 | whether you were ever a corporate officer of Golden |\n| 6 | Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 8 | that one? |\n| 9 | Q
You also said that you did not remember |\n| 10 | whether you were ever a corpora officer of Golden |\n| 11 | Spring Hong Kong?
Does that mean that it is |\n| 12 | possible that you were and you're just not certain? |\n| 13 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 14 | Q
Ms. Claiborn asked you in a few different |\n| 15 | ways about whether you know how Golden Spring New |\n| 16 | York is funded or makes money. |\n| 17 | Since when has Golden Spring been paying |\n| 18 | your personal living expenses? |\n| 19 | A
2015. |\n| 20 | Q
So six or seven years approximately? |\n| 21 | A
Since 2015 and that there was a person |\n| 22 | called Bruno Wu from Mainland China and called my |\n| 23 | family, my son, daughter and wife and so since then |\n| 24 | I start spending money coming from Golden Spring New |\n| 25 | York. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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86 |\n| 1 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't think |\n| 2 | the witness says some. |\n| 3 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What? |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't think |\n| 5 | the witness said some. |\n| 6 | THE WITNESS:
Not including the son that |\n| 7 | they caught, my wife and daughter and a lot of my |\n| 8 | family members, but not my son. |\n| 9 | Q
So approximately six or seven years that |\n| 10 | Golden Spring has been paying your personal |\n| 11 | expenses.
Is that right? |\n| 12 | A
Yes. |\n| 13 | Q
During those six or seven years did you |\n| 14 | never discuss with any of your family members where |\n| 15 | the money was coming from? |\n| 16 | A
Because a lot of my family members were |\n| 17 | caught by -- were arrested by your client, Bruno Wu, |\n| 18 | and so I have no communication. I cannot communicate |\n| 19 | with him. |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Not exactly. The |\n| 21 | partner of PAACS -- the partner who the counsel was |\n| 22 | represented, PAACS -- partner of PAACS -- |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't know. |\n| 24 | He didn't mention anything about PAACS. |\n| 25 | THE WITNESS:
So it's the other attorney |\n\n134\n\n| Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | |\n|-----------------------------|--|\n|-----------------------------|--|\n\n87\n\n| 1 | representing the client, Bruno Wu, arrested a lot of |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | your family members.
Your client's past partner, |\n| 3 | one of the partners, (indiscernible)
Bruno Wu and |\n| 4 | arrested a lot of your family members so you can't |\n| 5 | communicate with them. |\n| 6 | Q
At any time since 2015 have you been in |\n| 7 | communication with your daughter, or your wife, or |\n| 8 | your son? |\n| 9 | A
Yes. |\n| 10 | Q
At any time that you've been in |\n| 11 | communication with any of those three individuals |\n| 12 | did you ever ask them about where Golden Spring's |\n| 13 | money was coming from? |\n| 14 | A
Yes, I asked. |\n| 15 | Q
And who did you ask? |\n| 16 | A
I asked all three of them. |\n| 17 | Q
And what did they say? |\n| 18 | A
They told me because I was in the position |\n| 19 | of being chased so don't ask our own financial |\n| 20 | information.
Don't ask me for anything and we will |\n| 21 | help you to -- we will help you as much as we can. |\n| 22 | Q
When was that? |\n| 23 | A
After 2017. |\n| 24 | Q
How long after 2017? |\n| 25 | A
I don't remember. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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88 |\n| 1 | Q
And when you had this conversation with |\n| 2 | your family were the three of them together or where |\n| 3 | these separate conversations? |\n| 4 | A
Separate. |\n| 5 | Q
And each of the three of them said more or |\n| 6 | less the same thing? |\n| 7 | A
Similar. |\n| 8 | Q
So I want to make sure I have this |\n| 9 | correct.
You asked each of them where Golden |\n| 10 | Springs money was coming from and each of them said |\n| 11 | to you don't ask me about that because -- finish the |\n| 12 | sentence for me. |\n| 13 | A
So you are making a story I don't |\n| 14 | understand. |\n| 15 | Q
I'm trying to ask you to help me |\n| 16 | understand.
I'm trying to understand the reason why |\n| 17 | your family members told you not to ask why your |\n| 18 | family members told you not to ask about where |\n| 19 | Golden Spring got the money. |\n| 20 | MR. BALDIGA:
Let him ask you a question. |\n| 21 | Q
Please tell me why each of your family |\n| 22 | members told you not to ask them about where Golden |\n| 23 | Spring money came from? |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
If you know. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
You're asking |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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89 |\n| 1 | to object the question? |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
I objected. |\n| 3 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, you |\n| 4 | objected. |\n| 5 | MR. BALDIGA:
I permit him to answer if he |\n| 6 | knows. |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 8 | THE WITNESS:
My daughter and wife were |\n| 9 | arrested by his partner and got released 2017 and |\n| 10 | released to New York.
They were tortured |\n| 11 | tremendously by communist party.
The person |\n| 12 | tortured them is this attorney's partner.
They all |\n| 13 | have their own attorneys.
They told me don't ask me |\n| 14 | or communicate with me about their own financial and |\n| 15 | personal information.
Anything you want to do it's |\n| 16 | better go through attorneys. |\n| 17 | This is the doctrine, the thing, my family |\n| 18 | members told them before they came to New York.
I |\n| 19 | just want to tell you it's the meaning, very similar |\n| 20 | meanings, but I can't tell you word by word. |\n| 21 | So I don't want this counsel make any |\n| 22 | stories about my daughter -- about my daughter's |\n| 23 | forgery, giving false testimony.
That kind of |\n| 24 | story. |\n| 25 | The last time when we were here with Ms. |\n\n134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n90\n\n| 1 | Holley and he was making false lies and saying I'm |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | using my Twitter account and saying that the judge |\n| 3 | in New York was communist party and I didn't even |\n| 4 | have a Twitter account. |\n| 5 | MR. HARBACH:
Just so the record's clear |\n| 6 | today is the first that I've uttered a word in |\n| 7 | connection with this litigation in court.
So I |\n| 8 | don't think you're talking about me, sir. |\n| 9 | THE WITNESS:
I was saying last time was |\n| 10 | from attorney in your office.
The prior attorney |\n| 11 | before you called Andy Morse (ph) and was kicked out |\n| 12 | by the judge because he was making false claims for |\n| 13 | five years and was kicked out by the judge.
So the |\n| 14 | law office was always making false claims. |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
Just answer his question |\n| 16 | because I can't know whether to object unless you're |\n| 17 | just trying to answer his question. |\n| 18 | THE WITNESS:
I didn't talk to my family, |\n| 19 | daughter and wife individually to say the same |\n| 20 | thing. If I say the same thing, same words, that |\n| 21 | will be making false story. |\n| 22 | MR. HARBACH:
I understand. |\n| 23 | THE WITNESS:
You cannot use your |\n| 24 | imagination and put it into my head.
This is why |\n| 25 | the New York South District and the judge was |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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91 |\n| 1 | (indiscernible)
by them and they give me the wrong |\n| 2 | sentencing. |\n| 3 | UNIDENTIFIED:
Can you say that last -- |\n| 4 | THE WITNESS:
Because of their false |\n| 5 | claims, so that's why the judge from the south |\n| 6 | district of New York, the judge, gave me the wrong |\n| 7 | sentencing. |\n| 8 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
And also the |\n| 9 | interpreter did not interpret fully counsel's |\n| 10 | instruction to the witness previously about his |\n| 11 | objection. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
If you want to repeat it, |\n| 13 | go ahead. |\n| 14 | MR. BALDIGA:
I think you just have to |\n| 15 | listen to these questions and answer just these |\n| 16 | questions. |\n| 17 | MR. HARBACH:
Sorry.
Counsel will move to |\n| 18 | a different topic. |\n| 19 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 20 | Q
Mr. Kwok, Ms. Claiborn asked you today |\n| 21 | about a \\$21 million debt that you owe to Golden |\n| 22 | Spring.
She asked you how much of that 21 million |\n| 23 | was legal fees and your answer was I think most of |\n| 24 | it. |\n\n25 I'd like to know what you meant by most of it.\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 93 of |\n|---------------|-----------------|-----------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 92 |\n| 1 | | | Did you mean \\$11 million or do you mean close to \\$21 | |\n| 2 | million. | | | |\n| 3 | A | I don't remember. | | |\n| 4 | Q | | Do you still believe that most of it was | |\n| 5 | for legal fees? | | | |\n| 6 | A | I don't remember. | | |\n| 7 | Q | | You also mentioned the Logan Cheng | |\n| 8 | | | settlement and that there was money borrowed from | |\n| 9 | | | Golden Spring in connection with that. | |\n| 10 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 11 | Q | | How much money was that loan for? | |\n| 12 | A | | I don't remember exactly.
Probably like | |\n| 13 | 200. | Two -- \\$300,000. | | |\n| 14 | Q | | What were the terms of that loan from | |\n| 15 | Golden Spring? | | | |\n| 16 | A | I don't remember. | | |\n| 17 | Q | | When Ms. Claiborn asked you if you had | |\n| 18 | | | ever been to Golden Spring's offices in New York, | |\n| 19 | you said yes. | | | |\n| 20 | | | What's the address of those offices? | |\n| 21 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 22 | Q | | What is the address of those offices? | |\n| 23 | A | 64th Street, 162. | | |\n| 24 | Q | | You also mentioned that the last time you | |\n| 25 | | | were there was yesterday and that the reason you | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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93 |\n| 1 | | went there was to prepare for today's meeting. |\n| 2 | | Who did you meet with there? |\n| 3 | A | My attorney. |\n| 4 | Q | Did you meet with anyone else besides your |\n| 5 | | attorney to prepare for today's meeting while you |\n| 6 | | were at the office? |\n| 7 | A | I don't know what you mean, the other |\n| 8 | people. | |\n| 9 | Q | Well, did you meet with anyone who works |\n| 10 | for Golden Spring? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes, I met Yvonne Wang. |\n| 12 | Q | And this was yesterday? |\n| 13 | A | Yes, I met her yesterday. |\n| 14 | Q | Did you ask some questions of her |\n| 15 | yesterday? | |\n| 16 | A | No. |\n| 17 | Q | And tell me about your conversation with |\n| 18 | Ms. Wang? | |\n| 19 | A | What do you mean? |\n| 20 | Q | Well, I'd like to know what you talked |\n| 21 | about with her. | |\n| 22 | A | I ask her to arrange the food to eat and |\n| 23 | the coffee. | |\n| 24 | Q | Is that all? |\n| 25 | A | And also we talked about how to abolish |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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94 |\n| 1 | communist party. | |\n| 2 | Q | I want to make sure I get this right. I |\n| 3 | think you said -- | |\n| 4 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me. Can I hear the |\n| 5 | last thing again. | |\n| 6 | | THE WITNESS:
We talk about how to abolish |\n| 7 | communist party. | |\n| 8 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 9 | Q | Ms. Wang is an officer of Golden Spring, |\n| 10 | correct? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | And you directed her to bring coffee, |\n| 13 | right? | |\n| 14 | A | No, I didn't direct her. I'm just hoping |\n| 15 | | her to bring some coffee. |\n| 16 | Q | You were hoping or helping? |\n| 17 | A | Help. |\n| 18 | Q | You were helping.
Because my question to |\n| 19 | | you was what you talked about with Ms. Wang.
And I |\n| 20 | | thought you said you asked her to bring some coffee |\n| 21 | | or maybe even told her to bring some coffee. |\n| 22 | A | No, your attorney office -- you attorney |\n| 23 | | office making and imagining things again. |\n| 24 | Q | I'll ask the question again. |\n| 25 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Please ask a question. Don't |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18
134 | Page 96 of |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 95 |\n| 1 | | put words in his mouth. | |\n| 2 | Q | What did you discuss with Ms. Wang | |\n| 3 | yesterday? | | |\n| 4 | A | Do you want me to talk about in detail? I | |\n| 5 | | can talk about this for hours. | |\n| 6 | Q | Well, no, not if the detail concerns how | |\n| 7 | | to overthrow the Chinese Communist Party. So I'll be | |\n| 8 | more precise. | | |\n| 9 | A | So you don't want us to abolish Chinese | |\n| 10 | Community Party. | Our job is to abolish Chinese | |\n| 11 | Communist Party. | | |\n| 12 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Just answer the question. | |\n| 13 | | THE WITNESS:
You don't have a question. | |\n| 14 | | You're just directing something. | |\n| 15 | Q | Sometimes I speak in segments to allow the | |\n| 16 | | interpreter to translate. | |\n| 17 | | MR. BALDIGA:
I think it would be helpful | |\n| 18 | | if you just ask question and then the witness -- | |\n| 19 | | I'll instruct him to answer your questions. | That |\n| 20 | would be helpful. | | |\n| 21 | Q | Did you discuss with Yvette [sic] | |\n| 22 | | yesterday anything related to preparing for the | |\n| 23 | meeting today? | | |\n| 24 | A | Yes. | |\n| 25 | Q | What did you discuss? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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96 |\n| 1 | A | I ask her to bring those documents here. |\n| 2 | Q | Anything else? |\n| 3 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q | When was Lamp Capital created? |\n| 5 | A | I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q | Why was Lamp Capital created? |\n| 7 | A | I don't know. |\n| 8 | Q | Who created Lamp Capital? |\n| 9 | A | My son. |\n| 10 | Q | How do you know that? |\n| 11 | A | Because I borrow money from my son to pay |\n| 12 | attorney fee. | |\n| 13 | Q | The question is how do you know that your |\n| 14 | | son created Lamp Capital? |\n| 15 | A | Because my son said it. |\n| 16 | Q | He told you himself. |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | Did he ask for any advice from you about |\n| 19 | | whether to create Lamp Capital? |\n| 20 | A | No. |\n| 21 | Q | Did he ask you your opinion on whether he |\n| 22 | | should create Lamp Capital? |\n| 23 | A | No. |\n| 24 | Q | Did he tell you why he was creating Lamp |\n| 25 | Capital? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 98 of |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 97 |\n| 1 | A | No. | | |\n| 2 | Q | | When you were talking about your | |\n| 3 | | | malpractice claim against Boise Schiller, you | |\n| 4 | | | mentioned someone you kept referring to as he. I'd | |\n| 5 | | like to know who that person is? | | |\n| 6 | A | I don't know what you mean. | | |\n| 7 | Q | | Yes, that was a bad question. I apologize. | |\n| 8 | | | You stated that there was someone who gave | |\n| 9 | | | false documents to the court without your | |\n| 10 | permission. | | That this person threatened your | |\n| 11 | | | family, that this person threatened you after | |\n| 12 | | | drinking and that this person brought lots of loss | |\n| 13 | | | to you and your family, including not providing | |\n| 14 | | | translated documents before presenting them to the | |\n| 15 | judge. | | | |\n| 16 | | | My question is who is that person? | |\n| 17 | A | Schiller. | The Attorney Schiller. | |\n| 18 | Q | | So Mr. Schiller of the Boise Schiller law | |\n| 19 | firm. | Have I got that right? | | |\n| 20 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 21 | Q | | Thank you. Do you have an understanding of | |\n| 22 | | | what business Lamp Capital is engaged in, if any? | |\n| 23 | A | No. | | |\n| 24 | Q | Different subject. | You said several times | |\n| 25 | | | today in connection with your answers that the | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 99 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n\n134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n98\n\n| 1 | people behind me have done certain things. |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | Who are you talking about? |\n| 3 | A
One person behind me, there is a boss |\n| 4 | called Bruno Wu.
He paid the case that -- the rape |\n| 5 | case from (indiscernible)
rape case.
Also there is |\n| 6 | a creditor here and that also was paid by Bruno Wu. |\n| 7 | That attorney fee was paid by Bruno Wu.
And Bruno |\n| 8 | Wu is also his partner and he invested \\$800 million. |\n| 9 | Bruno Wu's partner is also (indiscernible)
previous |\n| 10 | officer and they were investigating and they |\n| 11 | combined a partner with them to investigate my case. |\n| 12 | So April 18, 2017, so this (indiscernible) |\n| 13 | start suing me, bring the lawsuit.
Within this 24 |\n| 14 | hours Bruno Wu is sending me the red note and they |\n| 15 | start bringing the lawsuit. |\n| 16 | MR. HARBACH:
Can I stop -- |\n| 17 | THE WITNESS: The Chinese Communist Party |\n| 18 | stopped the interview, the VOA interview with me. |\n| 19 | They happened at the same time. |\n| 20 | MR. HARBACH:
Or I can let him go. |\n| 21 | THE WITNESS:
All the documents made by |\n| 22 | this attorney firm were all false.
They provide a |\n| 23 | false document to the South District of New York |\n| 24 | court.
They even false claim on my daughter's |\n| 25 | yacht.
The boat is mine.
They sought the judge |\n\n#### Case 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 100 of\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 99 1 from the South District Court and I file the 2 bankrupt -- personal bankruptcy case twice and the 3 day -- they (indiscernible) twice including Ms. 4 Holley. And Ms. Holley was present. 5 The first time when Ms. Holley was present 6 in the court and they false testified saying -- and 7 they said my daughter was giving false testimony for 8 the Sherry bankruptcy case because my daughter never 9 participated in that case. 10 And Ms. Holley was there, was present the 11 second co date and Ms. Holley was there also. The 12 attorney from the firm was telling the judge and 13 they said that I used the Twitter account to -- and 14 they said on the Twitter and I was saying on the 15 Twitter the south district judge was communist party 16 member. 17 You can see here all the people behind me 18 and one is Bruno Wu and one person paid in many 19 cases -- 20 MR. HARBACH: I'd like to ask another 21 question. 22 BY MR. HARBACH: 23 Q Are you aware one way or the other whether 134\n\n24 your bankruptcy counsel, the Brown Rudnick law firm, 25 has ever previously represented Bruno Wu?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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100 |\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can I take a |\n| 2 | little break?
I just can't concentrate as much. |\n| 3 | Just too much.
Can I take a break? |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can I ask you to ask that |\n| 5 | question and then we'll take a break? |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yes.
Can you |\n| 7 | repeat that question? |\n| 8 | MR. HARBACH:
I'd be happy to. |\n| 9 | Q
Are you aware one way or the other of |\n| 10 | whether your bankruptcy counsel, the Brown Rudnick |\n| 11 | law firm, previously represented Bruno Wu? |\n| 12 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Represent |\n| 13 | somebody else you said? |\n| 14 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes.
Bruno Wu. |\n| 15 | A
No. |\n| 16 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to take a short |\n| 17 | break. We're going to be back here at 2:45. |\n| 18 | (Break) |\n| 19 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
We are back on |\n| 20 | the record after a short break. |\n| 21 | Mr. Harbach, the floor is yours. |\n| 22 | MR. HARBACH:
Thank you. |\n| 23 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 24 | Q
Ms. Kwok, among the documents in front of |\n| 25 | you, document 78 filed in this case. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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101 |\n| | |\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Which document? |\n| 2 | This one? |\n| 3 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. My apologies. Counsel |\n| 4 | advises me that your copies are not stamped. |\n| 5 | Q
I'm talking about your official from 106. |\n| 6 | So my question for you starts on page 9, which |\n| 7 | contains a heading that says Schedule D, creditors |\n| 8 | who have claimed (indiscernible)
by the property. |\n| 9 | Are you with me? |\n| 10 | You checked the box yes.
And were |\n| 11 | directed to Schedule D, so that's where I would like |\n| 12 | you to flip to, please.
And it's at page 18. |\n| 13 | MR. BALDIGA:
What's the title?
He can |\n| 14 | maybe find it better with the title. |\n| 15 | MR. HARBACH:
Okay. It's the little chart |\n| 16 | that is Schedule D, which is a list of creditors |\n| 17 | with secured claims. |\n| 18 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you'll see that there are five |\n| 20 | separate entries for Golden Spring New York Limited. |\n| 21 | The data in each column is identical for all five |\n| 22 | rows. |\n| 23 | So my question is why are there five |\n| 24 | identical entries on this schedule? |\n| 25 | The question is why are there five |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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102 |\n| 1 | identical entries on this schedule? |\n| 2 | A
I don't know what that means five -- |\n| 3 | Q
Well, each row is exactly the same.
And |\n| 4 | I'm just asking why there are five rows with the |\n| 5 | same information? |\n| 6 | A
I don't know. |\n| 7 | Q
Among that documents that you filed were |\n| 8 | some specific notes and one of those notes discusses |\n| 9 | the residence on Taconic Road. |\n| 10 | MR. HARBACH:
And for counsel I'm at |\n| 11 | document 77, page 4. |\n| 12 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Which page? |\n| 13 | MR. HARBACH:
Page 4. |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
84? |\n| 15 | MR. HARBACH:
No, Page 4. |\n| 16 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, page 4. |\n| 17 | Okay. |\n| 18 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 19 | Q
My question really isn't so much about the |\n| 20 | exact test as it is the substance. |\n| 21 | So first question, is it true that all expenses |\n| 22 | related to the Taconic Road House are paid directly |\n| 23 | by family and family controlled enterprises? |\n| 24 | A
Yes. |\n| 25 | Q
Okay.
Which family members? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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103 |\n| 1 | A | My wife, sometimes by my son. |\n| 2 | Q | Which family controlled enterprises? |\n| 3 | A | Which country -- my wife. |\n| 4 | Q | Your wife's not an enterprise.
I'm trying |\n| 5 | | to ask which family controlled enterprises pay the |\n| 6 | | expenses for the Taconic House? |\n| 7 | A | Greenwich LLC. |\n| 8 | Q | Okay.
Incidentally, how do you know that |\n| 9 | | your wife and sometimes you son pay these expenses? |\n| 10 | A | Because I live there. |\n| 11 | Q | Do you observe them pay the expenses? |\n| 12 | A | Yes. |\n| 13 | Q | Is that ever at your request? |\n| 14 | A | I don't remember I request anything. |\n| 15 | Q | Does Greenwich Land LLC -- yes Greenwich |\n| 16 | | Land LLC own any other real estate besides 373 |\n| 17 | Taconic Road? | |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q | Do you know anything about the property |\n| 20 | | located at 33 Ferncliff in Cos Cob, Connecticut? |\n| 21 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 22 | that? | |\n| 23 | | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. |\n| 24 | Q | 33 Ferncliff in Cos Cob, Connecticut. |\n| 25 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
31, right? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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104 |\n| 1 | | MR. HARBACH:
No, 33. |\n| 2 | A | Yes, now I remember it. It's also owned by |\n| 3 | my wife's company. | |\n| 4 | Q | That being Greenwich Land? |\n| 5 | A | Maybe. |\n| 6 | Q | Do you know? |\n| 7 | A | I'm not sure. |\n| 8 | Q | Have you ever been to 33 Ferncliff? |\n| 9 | A | Yes. |\n| 10 | Q | How recently? |\n| 11 | A | No.
Not recently. |\n| 12 | Q | Do you know when Greenwich Land purchased |\n| 13 | 33 Ferncliff? | |\n| 14 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 15 | Q | Do you know approximately how much money |\n| 16 | it cost? | |\n| 17 | A | Probably more that \\$1 million. |\n| 18 | Q | Does \\$1.37 million sound about right? |\n| 19 | A | I'm not sure. |\n| 20 | Q | And does the approximate purchase date of |\n| 21 | | September, 2019 sound about right to you? |\n| 22 | A | Not sure. |\n| 23 | Q | Turning back to 373 Taconic for a moment. |\n| 24 | | How much was that property purchased for? |\n| 25 | A | Probably 400 to 500,000. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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105 |\n| 1 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No, no, no. |\n| 2 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
4 to 5 million. |\n| 3 | I'm sorry. | |\n| 4 | Q | Approximate time of purchase of 373 |\n| 5 | | Taconic, if you know? |\n| 6 | A | I don't know. |\n| 7 | Q | Have you ever resided at 33 Ferncliff? |\n| 8 | A | No. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you know whether anyone currently lives |\n| 10 | there? | |\n| 11 | A | Before there is another comrade maybe, you |\n| 12 | | know, for disjoined Chinese Communist Party and he |\n| 13 | was to live there. | |\n| 14 | Q | How long ago? |\n| 15 | A | Probably one to two years ago. |\n| 16 | Q | DO you remember that person's name? |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | What is it? |\n| 19 | A | Wong Din Gong (ph). |\n| 20 | Q | Does anyone currently live there, if you |\n| 21 | know? | |\n| 22 | A | I don't know. |\n| 23 | Q | Talking about 373 Taconic, where did the |\n| 24 | | money come from to purchase that property? |\n| 25 | A | I don't know. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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106 |\n| 1 | Q | Do you know whether the house was |\n| 2 | | purchased with cash or financing? |\n| 3 | A | I don't know. |\n| 4 | Q | Same questions for 33 Ferncliff.
Do you |\n| 5 | | know where the money came from to purchase that |\n| 6 | house? | |\n| 7 | A | I heard it was purchased by cash. |\n| 8 | Q | From whom -- sorry. From whom did you hear |\n| 9 | that? | |\n| 10 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 11 | Q | Do you know where that money came from? |\n| 12 | A | I don't know. |\n| 13 | Q | Do you know what Saraca Media Group is? |\n| 14 | A | Saraca? |\n| 15 | Q | Saraca. |\n| 16 | A | Saraca Media Group.
I do. |\n| 17 | Q | What is Sirraca Media Group? |\n| 18 | A | Just Saraca.
It's a company. |\n| 19 | Q | What kind of company? |\n| 20 | A | I'm not sure. |\n| 21 | Q | Have you ever had any relationship with |\n| 22 | Saraca personally? | |\n| 23 | A | No. |\n| 24 | Q | Do you know anything about the type of |\n| 25 | | business that Saraca conducts? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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107 |\n| 1 | A | I remember they are related to GTV Media |\n| 2 | | platform, or they invested on the GTV Media |\n| 3 | platform. | |\n| 4 | Q | How do you know that? |\n| 5 | A | Because I was their consultant, who owned |\n| 6 | the consultant. | And also I was the GTV host.
And |\n| 7 | | also this is one of the input and platform for |\n| 8 | | disjoined communist party. |\n| 9 | Q | When you said you were a consultant a |\n| 10 | | moment ago was that for Saraca or for GTV? |\n| 11 | A | GTV. |\n| 12 | Q | Has Saraca ever been -- ever had the 162 |\n| 13 | | East 64th Street address associated with it? |\n| 14 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Which address? |\n| 15 | | Can you repeat that one. |\n| 16 | Q | Yes.
162 East 64th Street.
The question |\n| 17 | | is whether Saraca has ever been associated with that |\n| 18 | address? | |\n| 19 | A | I don't know. |\n| 20 | Q | That is the family office address, |\n| 21 | correct? | |\n| 22 | A | It's one of them. |\n| 23 | Q | Where are the other ones? |\n| 24 | A | I don't know. |\n| 25 | Q | Are there any others in New York City? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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108 | | |\n| 1 | A | I just want to clarify.
Golden Spring is | | |\n| 2 | | one of the companies in this building, 162. | | |\n| 3 | Q | Understood and thank you. | | |\n| 4 | | We've referred to the family office during | | |\n| 5 | | your questioning and I just want to be clear.
When | | |\n| 6 | we talk about the family office are we referring to | | | |\n| 7 | that address on East 64th Street? | | | |\n| 8 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 9 | Q | Has GTV ever been associated with the | | |\n| 10 | | family office address? | | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 12 | Q | Who owns Saraca? | | |\n| 13 | A | My son. | | |\n| 14 | Q | Since when? | | |\n| 15 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 16 | Q | Does Saraca currently exist? | | |\n| 17 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 18 | Q | Do you have any idea how many -- do you | | |\n| 19 | | know anything about the value of Saraca's assets? | | |\n| 20 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 21 | Q | Do you know anything about payments Saraca | | |\n| 22 | has made to GTV? | | | |\n| 23 | A | No, I don't know. | | |\n| 24 | Q | Has your wife ever told you about any | | |\n| 25 | | multi-million dollar payments from Saraca to | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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109 | | | |\n| 1 | Greenwich Land? | | | | |\n| 2 | A | I don't know. | | | |\n| 3 | Q | You don't know whether he's ever told you | | | |\n| 4 | | or you don't know about the payments? | | | |\n| 5 | A
She never told me and I don't even know | | | | |\n| 6 | how much. | | | | |\n| 7 | Q
Do you know a company called Ziba Limited, | | | | |\n| 8 | Z-I-B-A? | | | | |\n| 9 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Ziba, Z-I-B-A? | | | |\n| 10 | | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. | | | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. | | | |\n| 12 | Q
I'm sorry if I've already asked this. | | | | |\n| 13 | | What is the relationship, if any, between Saraca and | | | |\n| 14 | GTV? | | | | |\n| 15 | A | Saraca is the investor for GTV. | | | |\n| 16 | Q | Do you know how much money Saraca invested | | | |\n| 17 | in GTV? | | | | |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. | | | |\n| 19 | Q | When was GTV founded? | | | |\n| 20 | A | 2020.
Maybe 2019.
Not very sure. | | | |\n| 21 | Q | Do you know the names of any of the | | | |\n| 22 | | officers or directors of Saraca? | | | |\n| 23 | A | I don't know. | | | |\n| 24 | Q | Do you know whether Yvette Wang is an | | | |\n| 25 | | officer or director of Saraca? | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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110 | | | | |\n| 1 | A | I don't know. | | | | |\n| 2 | Q | Do you know someone called Hong Chung | | | | |\n| 3 | Wang? | | | | | |\n| 4 | A | Yes. | | | | |\n| 5 | Q | Who is that? | | | | |\n| 6 | A | He's my partner and also comrade for | | | | |\n| 7 | disjoined Communist Party. | | | | | |\n| 8 | Q
Is he a friend of yours? | | | | | |\n| 9 | A
Friend, comrade and a partner. | | | | | |\n| 10 | Q | What do you mean by partner? | | | | |\n| 11 | A
Because we had a business corporation. | | | | | |\n| 12 | Q
Tell me about that. | | | | | |\n| 13 | A | Well, I don't remember the name of that | | | | |\n| 14 | company.
It's a company for investigating Communist | | | | | |\n| 15 | | Party in USA doing money laundering and committing | | | | |\n| 16 | crimes. | | | | | |\n| 17 | Q | Was it a for profit company? | | | | |\n| 18 | A
I don't know. | | | | | |\n| 19 | Q | You don't know? | | | | |\n| 20 | A | I don't know. | | | | |\n| 21 | Q | What was the name of the company? | | | | |\n| 22 | A | I don't remember when getting to English. | | | | |\n| 23 | | I don't remember the name. | | | | |\n| 24 | Q
Approximately what time frame where you | | | | | |\n| 25 | | partners with Hong Chung Wang in this company? | | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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111 | | | | |\n| 1 | A | I don't remember. | | | | |\n| 2 | Q | Within the last three years? | | | | |\n| 3 | A | It must be more than three years ago. | | | | |\n| 4 | Q | More than ten years? | | | | |\n| 5 | A | No. | | | | |\n| 6 | Q | Did Hong Chung Wang ever have any | | | | |\n| 7 | | connection to Saraca? | | | | |\n| 8 | A | I don't know. | | | | |\n| 9 | Q | Was he ever an officer or director of | | | | |\n| 10 | Saraca? | | | | | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. | | | | |\n| 12 | Q | What does the G in GTV stand for? | | | | |\n| 13 | A | God.
The Goal, like in -- G-O-A-L. | | | | |\n| 14 | Q | The English word \"goal\"? | | | | |\n| 15 | A | Yea.
Goal or God. | | | | |\n| 16 | Q | Okay.
How long have you known Hong Chong | | | | |\n| 17 | Wang? | | | | | |\n| 18 | A | I don't remember. | | | | |\n| 19 | Q | More than ten years? | | | | |\n| 20 | A | Roughly. | | | | |\n| 21 | Q | And do you still consider him a friend | | | | |\n| 22 | today? | | | | | |\n| 23 | A | Yes. | | | | |\n| 24 | | MR. HARBACH:
Just a moment, please. | | | | |\n| 25 | Q | There's been many questions today about | | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 113 of |\n|---------------|---------------|--------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|-----------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 112 |\n| 1 | | | Golden Spring funding your living expenses. | |\n| 2 | | | Is it correct that as far as your living | |\n| 3 | | | expenses are concerned that none of that is expected | |\n| 4 | to be repaid? | | | |\n| 5 | A | Yes, true. | | |\n| 6 | Q | | And so those monies are not the subject of | |\n| 7 | | any formal agreement, correct? | | |\n| 8 | A | No. | | |\n| 9 | Q | | And those monies essentially then are a | |\n| 10 | | gift to you, correct? | | |\n| 11 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 12 | Q | | What's the Rule of Law Foundation? | |\n| 13 | A | What does that mean? | | |\n| 14 | Q | | The question is what is it? | |\n| 15 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | The Rule of Law |\n| 16 | Foundation? | | | |\n| 17 | | MR. HARBACH: | Yes, sir. | |\n| 18 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | I didn't get |\n| 19 | it. | Can you ask it another way? | | |\n| 20 | Q | | There's an entity called -- | |\n| 21 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh. | |\n| 22 | Q | | -- the Rule of Law Foundation. | |\n| 23 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. | |\n| 24 | | MR. HARBACH: | I'll hopefully save some | |\n| 25 | | | time by just asking this question instead. | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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113 | | | | |\n| 1 | Q | Are you familiar with the Rule of Law | | | | |\n| 2 | Foundation? | | | | | |\n| 3 | A | Yes. | | | | |\n| 4 | Q | Were you involved in its establishment? | | | | |\n| 5 | A | Yes. | | | | |\n| 6 | Q | Did you contribute any money to it when it | | | | |\n| 7 | was formed? | | | | | |\n| 8 | A | Not myself. | | | | |\n| 9 | Q | Did you direct any entity to contribute to | | | | |\n| 10 | | the Rule of Law Foundation? | | | | |\n| 11 | A | Suggestion in a direct and suggesting any | | | | |\n| 12 | difference -- | | | | | |\n| 13 | Q | If there was a suggestion, please tell me | | | | |\n| 14 | | it was a suggestion. | | | | |\n| 15 | A | I didn't direct anybody or order anybody. | | | | |\n| 16 | | I just always suggest people to make donations for | | | | |\n| 17 | the Foundation. | | | | | |\n| 18 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
As an | | | | |\n| 19 | | interpreter, I think that if the witness is asking | | | | |\n| 20 | | the interpreter questions, the interpreter should | | | | |\n| 21 | | interpret the question asked by the witness instead | | | | |\n| 22 | | of answer that question. | | | | |\n| 23 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I can answer | | | | |\n| 24 | anything. | | | | | |\n| 25 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
The witness said | | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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114 |\n| 1 | are you talking about the (indiscernible)
-- |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
That's why I |\n| 3 | relayed the questions to the attorney. |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
You answer him |\n| 5 | yes, and then you say that. |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, for God's |\n| 7 | sake.
I didn't say -- did I miss anything? |\n| 8 | (Interpretation.) |\n| 9 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
No |\n| 10 | question.
He said no question was not answered. |\n| 11 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 12 | Q
Did you ever suggested to any of your |\n| 13 | family members that they donate to the Rule of Law |\n| 14 | Foundation? |\n| 15 | A
Yes, I did suggest. |\n| 16 | Q
Did any of your family members or the |\n| 17 | family controlled enterprises contribute money to |\n| 18 | the Rule of Law Foundation? |\n| 19 | A
Yes. |\n| 20 | Q
How much money? |\n| 21 | A
For cash there is one -- over \\$1 million. |\n| 22 | From Hong Kong, Japan and Mainland -- in |\n| 23 | China and all combined it should be more than 30 |\n| 24 | million. |\n| 25 | Q
And just focusing for the moment on |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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115 | | |\n| 1 | | contributions from your family at your suggestion. | | |\n| 2 | | Approximately, how much money is that? | | |\n| 3 | A | I don't know the details.
Because of | | |\n| 4 | | security reasons they don't want me to know. | | |\n| 5 | Q | Did you say a moment ago that your family | | |\n| 6 | | contributed over a million dollars? | | |\n| 7 | A | One million cash is in New York here. | | |\n| 8 | Q | When was that? | | |\n| 9 | A | I don't remember. | | |\n| 10 | Q | Is the reason -- well, let me ask it this | | |\n| 11 | way. | Did you suggest an amount to your family | | |\n| 12 | | members that they should contribute to the Rule of | | |\n| 13 | Law Foundation? | | | |\n| 14 | A | I want them to donate the more the better. | | |\n| 15 | Q | Is that what you told them? | | |\n| 16 | A
Yes. | | | |\n| 17 | Q | Do you know whether the Rule of Law | | |\n| 18 | | Foundation is associated with the family office | | |\n| 19 | | address on 64th Street? | | |\n| 20 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 21 | Q | Did you ever make a \\$100 million donation | | |\n| 22 | | to the Rule of Law Foundation in November of 2018? | | |\n| 23 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat | | |\n| 24 | that again? | | | |\n| 25 | Q | Did you ever make a \\$100 million donation | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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116 |\n| 1 | to the Rule of Law Foundation in November, 2018? |\n| 2 | A
No. In the live stream like I want -- |\n| 3 | tried to collect the funds, in the live stream show. |\n| 4 | Q
Did you ever -- |\n| 5 | MR. BALDIGA:
Wait.
Was that his whole |\n| 6 | answer? |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. Something |\n| 8 | wrong? |\n| 9 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Not quite |\n| 10 | exactly what the witness said. |\n| 11 | (Indiscernible)
broadcasting is okay. |\n| 12 | Live stream is okay.
But collect money -- |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Asking for |\n| 14 | donation, right? |\n| 15 | (Interpretation) |\n| 16 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Raise -- |\n| 17 | THE WITNESS:
Raising money, raise |\n| 18 | donations.
Yeah, in the live stream broadcast |\n| 19 | thing, or whatever, you know, asking for donations |\n| 20 | to -- you know, to raise funds, to raise money. |\n| 21 | Q
Did you ever promise to donate \\$1 billion |\n| 22 | to the Rule of Law Fund? |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
10 billion you |\n| 24 | said? |\n| 25 | MR. HARBACH:
No, sir.
1 billion. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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117 |\n| 1 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, one |\n| 2 | billion. | |\n| 3 | A | I don't remember. I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q | Do you mean that it's possible that you |\n| 5 | made that promise? | |\n| 6 | A | So we could reach that goal if we combine |\n| 7 | | the organizations all over the world. |\n| 8 | Q | Understand.
And it's a simple question. I |\n| 9 | | just don't know the answer. |\n| 10 | | Did you yourself ever promise to donate \\$1 |\n| 11 | | billion to the Rule of Law fund? |\n| 12 | A | In the past five years I did the live |\n| 13 | | stream over 5,000 times.
Some of the live stream |\n| 14 | | could have reached four or five hours.
It's hard |\n| 15 | | for me to remember every sentence I said. |\n| 16 | Q | Well, I understand that, but I'm only |\n| 17 | | asking about one issue.
And it is whether you ever |\n| 18 | | promised publicly, or privately or anyhow to donate |\n| 19 | | \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Fund? |\n| 20 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
He did not say |\n| 21 | invest. | |\n| 22 | | MR. HARBACH:
Donate |\n| 23 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, donate. |\n| 24 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 25 | Q | I'll ask this one one more time. |\n\n## Case 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 119 of\n\n134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n118\n\n 1 Are you saying that it is possible that 2 you made such a promise. You just can't be sure? 3 A In front of Ms. Holley I wouldn't say 4 anything is possible but this is a very serious 5 issue. Now they start the scheme again. 6 Q Well, this isn't what did you have for 7 breakfast three days ago. This is did you promise 8 to donate \\$1 billion and if the answer is you don't 9 know, that's okay. 10 MR. BALDIGA: I think that's what the 11 answer has been. 12 MR. HARBACH: No, the answer has been I 13 don't remember. 14 MR. BALDIGA: Don't remember. 15 MR. HARBACH: Yes, sir. That's a little 16 different. 17 Q So the answer might be no, but you're not 18 saying no. You're saying you don't remember. 19 A I said it three times, I don't remember. 20 MR. BALDIGA: There's no question -- 21 A Because in the past five years 22 (indiscernible) always making these kind of answers 23 for me so that's why the judge from the South 24 District were fooled by you and you started again -- 25 Q I'll move on.\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 120 of | |\n|---------------|---------------------------------------|-----------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------|----------------|--|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 119 | |\n| 1 | A | | In the South District court I only met | | |\n| 2 | | | judge 20 seconds. I didn't say one sentence within | | |\n| 3 | | | this five years and I was fined a total about \\$300 | | |\n| 4 | million because that's what they did. | | | | |\n| 5 | | MR. BALDIGA: | All right. Let's stop it. | | |\n| 6 | | | Let's wait for a question and we'll answer the | | |\n| 7 | question. | | | | |\n| 8 | | MR. HARBACH: | Bill, I appreciate your | | |\n| 9 | patience. | I'll move on. | | | |\n| 10 | | MR. BALDIGA: | Translate what I said, | | |\n| 11 | please. | | | | |\n| 12 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | Can you repeat | |\n| 13 | that? | | Everybody's saying at the time. | | |\n| 14 | | MR. BALDIGA: | Ask a question and he'll | | |\n| 15 | answer a question. | | | | |\n| 16 | Q | | Have you made any donations to the Rule of | | |\n| 17 | | | Law Foundation in the last two years? | | |\n| 18 | A | Myself, right? | | | |\n| 19 | Q | Yes, sir. | | | |\n| 20 | A | No. | | | |\n| 21 | Q | | Have you suggested to any of your family | | |\n| 22 | | | that they make donations to the Rule of Law | | |\n| 23 | Foundation within the last two years? | | | | |\n| 24 | A | I don't remember. | | | |\n\n25 Q Would you ever have made a promise to\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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120 |\n| 1 | donate \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Foundation if |\n| 2 | you did not actually have that money? |\n| 3 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection to form. |\n| 4 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 5 | it.
Can you repeat one more time. |\n| 6 | Q
Would you have ever made a promise to |\n| 7 | donate \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Foundation if |\n| 8 | you did not actually have that money. |\n| 9 | MR. BALDIGA:
And I objected. |\n| 10 | MR. HARBACH:
And then Bill objected. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said are you |\n| 12 | -- want to sentencing me to death sentence? |\n| 13 | Q
Approximately how much is the Lady May |\n| 14 | worth? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Over the years that you have been aboard |\n| 17 | the Lady May, approximately how many times have you |\n| 18 | invited friends to join you? |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 20 | that question one more time? |\n| 21 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. |\n| 22 | Q
Over the years that you had been aboard |\n| 23 | the Lady May, approximately how many times have you |\n| 24 | invited friends out to join you? |\n\n25 MR. BALDIGA: Hold on.\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
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121 |\n| 1 | MR. HARBACH:
Sorry, Bill. |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
David, you have a deposition |\n| 3 | on the Lady May issues coming up.
You can choose |\n| 4 | today or then.
Either one is fine. |\n| 5 | MR. HARBACH:
That's a fair point.
I'll |\n| 6 | move on. |\n| 7 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay.
No question. |\n| 8 | MR. HARBACH:
If I could direct counsel's |\n| 9 | attention again to document 77.
And I want to focus |\n| 10 | on question 19. |\n| 11 | Q
Mr. Kwok, let me know when you're read |\n| 12 | that question. It's no. 19. |\n| 13 | (Pause.) |\n| 14 | A
Finished. |\n| 15 | Q
Okay.
So for the benefit of the record, |\n| 16 | the question says within ten years before you filed |\n| 17 | for bankruptcy did you transfer any property to a |\n| 18 | self settled trust or similar device of which you |\n| 19 | are a beneficiary? |\n| 20 | A
No. |\n| 21 | Q
And that is indeed what you checked on the |\n| 22 | form.
My question for you is if you turn -- if |\n| 23 | changed the word you to a family member as the |\n| 24 | beneficiary, what would the answer be? |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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122 |\n| 1 | A | I cannot answer questions with if. |\n| 2 | Q | I'll ask it a different way. |\n| 3 | | MR. HARBACH:
And, Jack, I'll ask you to |\n| 4 | bear with me. | |\n| 5 | Q | Within ten years before you filed for |\n| 6 | | bankruptcy did you transfer any property to a self |\n| 7 | | settled trust or similar device of which a member of |\n| 8 | | your family is a beneficiary? |\n| 9 | A | No. |\n| 10 | Q | Sticking with that same document going |\n| 11 | | forward to question 27.
Just let me know when |\n| 12 | | you're read it, sir. |\n| 13 | (Pause.) | |\n| 14 | A | Okay. I'm finished. |\n| 15 | Q | So you see there you have checked the box |\n| 16 | | next to the word yes.
And then the instructions say |\n| 17 | | check all that apply above and fill in the details |\n| 18 | | below for each business. |\n| 19 | | MR. HARBACH:
Do you see where that is, |\n| 20 | Jack? | |\n| 21 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't see |\n| 22 | that. | |\n| 23 | | MR. HARBACH:
Next -- Holley can show you. |\n| 24 | (Pause.) | |\n| 25 | | MR. HARBACH:
So I was just pointing out |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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134 | Page 124 of |\n|---------------|--------------------|------------------------------------------------------|-------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 123 |\n| 1 | | to the witness -- for the benefit of the translator | |\n| 2 | I'll say it again. | | |\n| 3 | Q | Next to the box that is checked yes, the | |\n| 4 | | instructions say check all that apply above and fill | |\n| 5 | | in the details below for each business. | None of the |\n| 6 | | boxes above is checked and that's my question. | |\n| 7 | | Which box or boxes should be checked for | |\n| 8 | | each of those three entities that you have listed? | |\n| 9 | A | I cannot determine which one. | |\n| 10 | Q | Is that something you would need more time | |\n| 11 | | to figure out or you just don't know the answer? | |\n| 12 | A | I could answer one by one. | |\n| 13 | Q | Okay. Let's do that.
Let's start with | |\n| 14 | Genever. | | |\n| 15 | A | Which Genever? | |\n| 16 | Q | Well, the one that's listed is Genever | |\n| 17 | | Holdings Corporation. | |\n| 18 | | Which of those boxes would you check for | |\n| 19 | | Genever Holdings Corporation, if any? | |\n| 20 | A | It was one time -- it was a member of LLC. | |\n| 21 | | The above don't apply and should transfer to no. 12 | |\n| 22 | -- transfer to 12. | | |\n| 23 | | It used to be an LLC. | |\n| 24 | Q | Are you saying that you would check the | |\n| 25 | | box for a member of an LLC but it should be in the | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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124 |\n| 1 | past tense? | |\n| 2 | A | Yes.
Used to be. |\n| 3 | Q | Do any of the other boxes apply to your |\n| 4 | | relationship to Genever Holdings Corporation? |\n| 5 | A | The last row seems like appropriate for |\n| 6 | | me. I'm not very sure. |\n| 7 | Q | The last row being an owner of at least |\n| 8 | | five percent of the voting or equity securities of a |\n| 9 | corporation? | |\n| 10 | A | I owned 50 percent for a very short period |\n| 11 | of time. | |\n| 12 | Q | Okay.
What about for Shiny Time? |\n| 13 | A | Shiny Time already went away. |\n| 14 | Q | I understand.
When it was in existence, |\n| 15 | | which of those boxes was accurate? |\n| 16 | A | Number one. |\n| 17 | Q | A sole proprietor? |\n| 18 | A | Yes. |\n| 19 | Q | Any of the others? |\n| 20 | A | Not sure. |\n| 21 | Q | Okay.
What about for Well Origin Limited? |\n| 22 | A | It went away. |\n| 23 | Q | Okay.
Same question though.
Which of |\n| 24 | | those boxes applied when it was in existence? |\n| 25 | A | Number one. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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134 | Page 126 of |\n|---------------|---------------|------------------------------------------------------|-------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 125 |\n| 1 | Q | Any of the others? | |\n| 2 | A | Not sure. | |\n| 3 | Q | One last point about this question. | |\n| 4 | | For Genever Holdings Corporation the block | |\n| 5 | | for the dates that the business existed is blank. | |\n| 6 | | Do you know what those dates should be? | |\n| 7 | A | 2015.
Probably March, April to June, | |\n| 8 | July. | | |\n| 9 | Q | Of which year? | |\n| 10 | A | 2015. | |\n| 11 | Q | So from approximately March or April until | |\n| 12 | | approximately July all in 2015? | |\n| 13 | A | Yes. | |\n| 14 | Q | Okay.
And is that the entire duration | |\n| 15 | | that that corporation existed? | |\n| 16 | A | I was in the company for a few months, for | |\n| 17 | | this period of time, a few months and with holding - | |\n| 18 | | - in stock holding.
And the company still existed | |\n| 19 | after I left. | | |\n| 20 | Q | I understand.
And does it still exist | |\n| 21 | today? | | |\n| 22 | A | I believe it still exists. | |\n| 23 | Q | Okay.
In what year did you get married? | |\n| 24 | A | 1918 -- or 1985. | |\n| 25 | Q | What year was your son born? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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126 |\n| 1 | A | 1986. |\n| 2 | Q | And how old are you, sir? |\n| 3 | A | 54. |\n| 4 | Q | How old was your son when your family |\n| 5 | | began working with Uda Property Company? |\n| 6 | A | 11.
Oh, five years -- five years old. |\n| 7 | Q | And so that would have been in |\n| 8 | | approximately 1991 that your family began working |\n| 9 | with Uda? | |\n| 10 | A | Yes. |\n| 11 | Q | When was the Henan Uda Hotel completed? |\n| 12 | A | In 1997. |\n| 13 | Q | And what about the Uda International Trade |\n| 14 | Center. | When was it completed? |\n| 15 | A | At pretty much the same time. |\n| 16 | Q | In your declaration in this case you |\n| 17 | | stated that both of those were successful ventures. |\n| 18 | A | Yes. |\n| 19 | Q | That allowed your family to start amassing |\n| 20 | | significant wealth. |\n| 21 | A | Yes. |\n| 22 | Q | So recognizing that this is in the early |\n| 23 | | '90's how much money approximately did those |\n| 24 | | ventures bring to your family? |\n| 25 | A | I don't remember. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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127 |\n| 1 | Q | More than \\$50 million? |\n| 2 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
50 or 15? |\n| 3 | | MR. HARBACH:
5-0. |\n| 4 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, okay. |\n| 5 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 6 | Q | What about the Pengu Plaza?
When was it |\n| 7 | completed? | |\n| 8 | A | July 2008. |\n| 9 | Q | So between the early '90's and 2008 what |\n| 10 | | other projects of significant did the Guo family |\n| 11 | | invest in or participate in? |\n| 12 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Since 1990's to |\n| 13 | -- | |\n| 14 | A | Between the early 1990's and 2008. |\n| 15 | Q | Do you remember any of them?
Any of the |\n| 16 | | significant ventures? |\n| 17 | A | Beijing Golden Spring. |\n| 18 | Q | What was that? |\n| 19 | A | It's a property company.
Real estate. |\n| 20 | | It's a real estate company. |\n| 21 | Q | Was this a development company or a -- |\n| 22 | | like a buying and selling agency? |\n| 23 | A | Developing company. |\n| 24 | Q | When was the Pangu Plaza project started, |\n| 25 | approximately? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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128 | | | |\n| 1 | A | Roughly 1999. | | | |\n| 2 | Q | Okay. So let's use that as a point in | | | |\n| 3 | time. | | | | |\n| 4 | | At the beginning of the Pangu Plaza | | | |\n| 5 | | project approximately how much had the family | | | |\n| 6 | amassed in wealth? | | | | |\n| 7 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Ask that | | | |\n| 8 | question again? | | | | |\n| 9 | | MR. HARBACH:
Sure. | | | |\n| 10 | Q | As of 1999, which was the beginning of the | | | |\n| 11 | | Pangu Plaza project, approximately how much wealth | | | |\n| 12 | | had the family earned or amassed by that time? | | | |\n| 13 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
You're talking | | | |\n| 14 | about after 1999? | | | | |\n| 15 | | MR. HARBACH:
No, I'm talking about as of | | | |\n| 16 | 1999? | | | | |\n| 17 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, as of 1999. | | | |\n| 18 | Q | How much money had the family made by | | | |\n| 19 | 1999? | | | | |\n| 20 | A | I don't remember. | | | |\n| 21 | Q | More than \\$100 million? | | | |\n| 22 | A | I don't remember. | | | |\n| 23 | Q
More than \\$500 million? | | | | |\n| 24 | A | I don't remember. | | | |\n| 25 | Q | More than a billion dollars? | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
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129 |\n| 1 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 2 | Q | Were you personally involved in the work |\n| 3 | | with Uda Property Company? |\n| 4 | A | Yes. |\n| 5 | Q | Were you personally involved in the |\n| 6 | | development of the Henan Uda Hotel? |\n| 7 | A | Yes. |\n| 8 | Q | Were you personally involved in the Uda |\n| 9 | | International Trade Center in Zhengzhou? |\n| 10 | A | Yes. |\n| 11 | Q | Were you personally involved in the |\n| 12 | | development of the Pengu Plaza? |\n| 13 | A | Yes. |\n| 14 | Q | Who was in charge of the Beijing Golden |\n| 15 | | Spring Real Estate Development firm? |\n| 16 | A | A professional group. |\n| 17 | Q | Were you a member of that group? |\n| 18 | A | At that time I was a consultant. |\n| 19 | Q | For Beijing Golden Spring? |\n| 20 | A | Yes. |\n| 21 | Q | During what time frame was that, |\n| 22 | | approximately that you were a consultant for them? |\n| 23 | A | After 2000. |\n| 24 | Q | After 2000.
Okay. |\n| 25 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Harbach, I just want to |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18
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130 |\n| 1 | | note that it is 4:18 and I know we've had a long day |\n| 2 | | -- and I wanted to give -- I apologize for |\n| 3 | | interrupting you, first of all. |\n| 4 | | MR. HARBACH:
That's all right. |\n| 5 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
But I wanted to give |\n| 6 | | counsel for the committee a chance to ask a few |\n| 7 | | questions today before we conclude. |\n| 8 | | MR. HARBACH:
Of course.
Sure. |\n| 9 | | MR. STAFSTROM:
I'll be very brief. |\n| 10 | | EXAMINATION BY MR. STAFSTROM: |\n| 11 | Q | I noticed your hair is very short. I like |\n| 12 | it. | Have you gotten a haircut recently? |\n| 13 | A | Yes.
I had a haircut. |\n| 14 | Q | Where did you get it cut? |\n| 15 | A | My wife. |\n| 16 | Q | Oh, your wife.
Okay. |\n| 17 | | Does she always cut your hair? |\n| 18 | A | After the virus until now. |\n| 19 | Q | Okay.
All right. I have no further |\n| 20 | questions then. | |\n| 21 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to put the |\n| 22 | | recording on pause while we work on selecting a new |\n| 23 | date. | |\n| 24 | | (Off the record.) |\n| 25 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
We're back on the record |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8 | Filed 05/20/22
134 | Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 | Page 132 of |\n|---------------|-----------|---------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 131 |\n| 1 | | after a short break. | We have selected a continuance | |\n| 2 | | date of April 29th, beginning at 10:00 a.m. | | We are |\n| 3 | | concluded for today. | Thank you. | |\n| 4 | | (Meeting adjourned.) | | |\n| 5 | | | | |\n| 6 | | | | |\n| 7 | | | | |\n| 8 | | | | |\n| 9 | | | | |\n| 10 | | | | |\n| 11 | | | | |\n| 12 | | | | |\n| 13 | | | | |\n| 14 | | | | |\n| 15 | | | | |\n| 16 | | | | |\n| 17 | | | | |\n| 18 | | | | |\n| 19 | | | | |\n| 20 | | | | |\n| 21 | | | | |\n| 22 | | | | |\n| 23 | | | | |\n| 24 | | | | |\n| | | | | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 132 1 I, CHRISTINE FIORE, court-approved 2 transcriber and certified electronic reporter and 3 transcriber, certify that the foregoing is a correct 4 transcript from the official electronic sound 5 recording of the proceedings in the above-entitled 6 matter. 7 8 9 April 15, 2022 10 Christine Fiore, CERT 11 Transcriber 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Case 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 133 of 134\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 404-8
Filed 05/20/22
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134 | Page 134 of |\n|---------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------|-------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 133 |\n| 1 | INDEX | |\n| 2 | | |\n| 3 | | Page |\n| 4 | Examination by Ms. Claiborn | 6 |\n| 5 | Examination by Mr. Wolman | 71 |\n| 6 | Examination by Mr. Harbach | 80 |\n| 7 | Examination by Mr. Stafstrom | 130 |\n| 8 | | |\n| 9 | | |\n| 10 | | |\n| 11 | | |\n| 12 | | |\n| 13 | | |\n| 14 | | |\n| 15 | | |\n| 16 | | |\n| 17 | | |\n| 18 | | |\n| 19 | | |\n| 20 | | |\n| 21 | | |\n| 22 | | |\n| 23 | | |\n| 24 | | |\n| 25 | | |","body_zh":"证据附件 PAX 08\n\n341 债权人会议记录（第二部分）\n\nUNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT（美国康涅狄格联邦破产法院） 关于 * Chapter 11 * * HO WAN KWOK（郭文贵）,* Case 22-50073(JAM) * 债务人。* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 续行341债权人会议记录 2022年4月6日 由美国受托人办公室电子录音 记录整理人：Christine Fiore，CERT Fiore Reporting and Transcription Service, Inc. 4 Research Drive, Suite 402 Shelton, CT 06484 (203)929-9992\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 134\n\n代表债务人：WILLIAM R. BALDIGA（威廉·R·鲍尔迪加），ESQ. BEN SILVERBERG（本·西尔弗伯格），ESQ.\n\n代表美国受托人：HOLLEY E. CLAIBORN（霍利·E·克莱伯恩），ESQ.\n\n代表债权人 Logan Cheng（程龙）：JAY MARSHALL WOLMAN（杰伊·马歇尔·沃尔曼），ESQ. Randazza Legal Group（兰达扎法律集团）\n\n出庭人员：\n\n代表 Pacific Alliance Asia Opportunity Fund, LP（太平洋联盟亚洲机会基金，有限合伙企业）、债权人：DAVID V. HARBACH, II（戴维·V·哈巴赫二世），ESQ. O'Melveny & Myers, LLP（奥睿律师事务所） 1625 I Street NW\n\nWashington, DC 20006 STUART SARNOFF（斯图尔特·萨诺夫），ESQ. MAKENZIE RUSSO（麦肯齐·鲁索） O'Melveny & Myers, LLP（奥睿律师事务所） Times Square Tower\n\nHartford, CT 06103\n\nBrown Rudnick, LLP（布朗·拉德尼克律师事务所） Seven Times Square New York, NY 10036\n\nSTEVEN MACKEY（史蒂文·麦基），ESQ.\n\n150 State Street New Haven, CT 06510\n\nOffice of the U.S. Trustee（美国受托人办公室）\n\n100 Pearl Street, 14th Floor\n\n7 Times Square New York, NY 10036\n\nANNECCA SMITH（安妮卡·史密斯），ESQ. Robinson and Cole（罗宾逊与科尔律师事务所） 280 Trumbull Street Hartford, CT 06103\n\n代表债权人 Bruno Wu（吴征）、Weican Meng（孟伟灿）及 Rui Ma（马蕊）：KRISTEN MAYHEW（克里斯滕·梅休），ESQ. McElroy, Deutsch, Mulvaney & Carpenter（麦克尔罗伊、杜奇、马尔瓦尼及卡彭特律师事务所） One State Street Hartford, CT 06103\n\n代表无担保债权人官方委员会：STEVEN STAFSTROM（史蒂文·斯塔夫斯特罗姆），ESQ. Pullman & Comley（普尔曼与康利律师事务所） 850 Main Street Bridgeport, CT 06601\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 4 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 克莱伯恩女士：\n早上好。\n今天是\n\n2 2022年4月6日，星期三。我们在此举行\n3 Ho Wan Kwok（郭文贵）第11章案件\n4 的续行债权人会议，案号为22-50073。\n5 我叫霍利·克莱伯恩。我是美国受托人办公室的审判\n6 律师，\n7 我将主持今天的会议。今天的\n8 会议正在以数字录音设备录音，\n9 各方也可通过电话\n10 参与会议。包括债务人、\n11 律师及其他专业人士在内的各方\n12 均亲自到场。\n13 如各位所听到的，今天的会议正在进行口译，\n14 今天的口译员是 Jeff（杰夫），\n15 我将请杰夫就此宣誓作答。\n16 （口译员宣誓。）\n17 法庭：\n代表 Kwok 先生到场的是\n18 William Baldiga（威廉·鲍尔迪加）和 Ben Silverberg（本·西尔弗伯格）。\n19 代表债务人到场的还有\n20 财务专业人士 Craig Gelbert（克雷格·盖尔伯特）和 Matthew\n21 Flynn（马修·弗林）。\n22 今天代表\n23 无担保债权人委员会到场的是 Steven Stafstrom（史蒂文·斯塔夫斯特罗姆），\n24 来自 Pullman and Comley（普尔曼与康利律师事务所）。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 5 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 Stafstrom 先生是\n2 无担保债权人官方委员会的律师。\n3 今天代表 PAACS 到场的还有\n4 Stuart Sarnoff（斯图尔特·萨诺夫）、David Harbach（戴维·哈巴赫）和 MacKenzie Russo（麦肯齐·鲁索）。\n5 他们代表 PAACS。\n6 代表包括\n7 Rui Ma（马蕊）在内的若干债权人到场的是 Kristen Mayhew（克里斯滕·梅休）。\n8 代表债权人 Logan Cheng（程龙）到场的\n9 是 Jay Wolman（杰伊·沃尔曼）。\n10 代表 PAACS 到场的还有 Annecca\n11 Smith（安妮卡·史密斯），来自 Robinson and Cole（罗宾逊与科尔律师事务所）。\n12 今天代表债务人到场的还有\n13 Josh Klein（乔什·克莱因）和 Aaron Mitchell（亚伦·米切尔）。\n14 今天的会议将先由我提问，\n15 随后债权人将有机会\n16 上前提问。\n17 电话会议线路上是否有人？\n18 \n19 麦基先生：\n来自美国\n20 受托人办公室的 Steven Mackey（史蒂文·麦基）在线上。\n21 谢谢你，麦基先生。除麦基先生外，\n22 还有其他人吗？\n23 没有听到回应，我将开始\n24 让 Kwok 先生宣誓。\n25 （债务人宣誓。）\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 6 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 克莱伯恩女士：Kwok 先生，如您所知，\n2 今天的会议正在录音，Jeff 先生是我们今天的\n3 正式口译员。\n4 Jeff 将口译\n5 我提出的问题和您的回答；我要求您在\n6 Jeff 完整翻译后，\n7 再回答我的问题。\n8 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n9 问 Kwok 先生，我们今天将继续讨论上次\n10 债权人会议中一般性中止的事项，该会议于\n11 2022年3月\n12 21日举行。\n13 自2022年3月21日以来，您的就业\n14 状况是否发生了任何变化？\n15 答 没有。\n16 问 您的住所方面是否发生了\n17 任何变化？\n18 答 没有。\n19 问 在2022年3月21日举行的会议期间，\n20 我曾询问您有关您的\n21 破产清单及破产财务状况说明\n22 是否准确的问题。\n23 答 没有变化。\n24 问 谢谢。\n25 克莱伯恩女士：Jeff，为便于我\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 7 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 提问，我将按照您面前的文件\n\n2 进行。当我说“清单”时，是指\n3 这份文件。另一份文件是\n4 财务状况说明。明白吗？当我\n5 提及 ECF 编号时，它位于页面顶部。\n6 正式口译员：\nECF 编号。\n7 明白。\n8 克莱伯恩女士：\n明白吗？这应当能\n9 让您跟上，并从本页开始。\n10 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n11 问 好的。Kwok 先生，我要请您\n12 确保您面前有——看起来您确实有——\n13 附表 A-B 至 J。\n14 私人口译员：\n他面前有\n15 普通话译本。\n16 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n17 问 我看到坐在您\n18 旁边的 Baldiga 先生持有英文版本。但您面前的，\n19 Kwok 先生，看起来是译本。这是否\n20 准确？\n21 答 只有附表 A-B。\n22 问 好的。因此，Kwok 先生，您今天回答\n23 我的问题时，将查看您自己的破产\n24 清单译本。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 404-8\nFiled 05/20/22\nEntered 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 答\n好的。\n2 问\n好的。\n3 私人口译员：\n请稍等，\n4 法官阁下。\n5 克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。\n6 私人口译员：\n当口译员\n7 口译证人的回答时，我听起来有\n8 一点困难。\n9 克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。那么，Jack（杰克），如果您\n10 能大声一点。我来移动麦克风。\n11 正式口译员：\n哦，好的。\n12 克莱伯恩女士：\n看看这样是否有效。\n13 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n14 问\n好的。Kwok 先生，从附表 A-B 的\n15 第1个问题开始。关于附表 A-B 的\n16 第1个问题，该问题询问您是否对任何不动产、住宅或\n17 建筑物或类似财产拥有任何法定或\n18 衡平法权益。您对该\n19 第1个问题的回答是否定，Kwok 先生。该回答是否\n20 准确？\n21 答\n是。\n22 问\nKwok 先生，在2018年至您于\n23 2022年2月申请破产之间，您是否拥有过任何不动产？\n24 \n25 正式口译员：\n您能重复一下\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 9 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 那个问题吗？\n2 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n3 问\n在2018年至您于2022年2月\n4 申请破产之间，您是否拥有过任何不动产？\n5 \n6 正式口译员：\n您能重复一下\n7 那个问题吗？他说他没有听清。\n8 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n9 问\nKwok 先生——\n10 鲍尔迪加先生：\n抱歉。我没有听清。\n11 正式口译员：\n他说他\n12 没有理解翻译。我只是想\n13 先确认我理解正确。\n14 克莱伯恩女士：\n我会重复这个问题。\n15 正式口译员：\n好的。\n16 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n17 问\nKwok 先生，在2018年至2022年2月之间，\n18 您是否拥有过任何不动产？\n19 答\n没有。\n20 问\nKwok 先生，截至您于\n21 2022年2月申请破产时，您对世界任何地方的\n22 任何不动产是否拥有任何衡平法权益？\n23 答\n没有。\n24 问\nKwok 先生，截至您于\n25 2022年2月申请破产时，您是否对\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 404-8\nFiled 05/20/22\nEntered 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 世界任何地方的任何不动产拥有任何\n2 法定权益？\n3 答\n没有。\n4 问\nKwok 先生，您是否曾在香港拥有过任何\n5 不动产？\n6 答\n没有。\n7 私人口译员：\n回答是什么？\n8 正式口译员：\n没有。\n9 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n10 问\nKwok 先生，您是否曾拥有位于\n11 香港 South Bay Road 16A 的房产？\n12 答\n没有。\n13 问\nKwok 先生，您目前是否拥有位于纽约市\n14 Sherry Netherland 的一套公寓？\n15 正式口译员：\n我没有听到\n16 它。我能请他重复——重复回答吗？\n17 鲍尔迪加先生：\n您必须说——无论\n18 您要说什么，您必须——您是在对所有人说，\n19 而不只是对 Holley 说，所以我需要听到\n20 您说什么。\n21 正式口译员：\n好的。我只是——\n22 我只是想请他重复——重复\n23 回答。\n24 鲍尔迪加先生：\n好的。\n25 正式口译员：\n好的？\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 证人：\n我不拥有纽约的那处不动产，\n2 Sharon——Sharons——在那个\n3 我不记得的地址，我拥有——我拥有50\n4 %的股票——股票，而且——\n5 私人口译员：\n没有。\n6 正式口译员：\n没有？\n7 私人口译员：\n没有。\n8 正式口译员：\n好的。\n9 证人：\n代表家庭。\n10 克莱伯恩女士：\n我能否请您不要\n11 打断？您能否等到最后，然后\n12 ——\n13 私人口译员：\n好的。\n14 克莱伯恩女士：\n——您可以表达您想说的任何\n15 内容？\n16 私人口译员：\n好的。\n17 克莱伯恩女士：\n请您\n18 再次翻译 Kwok 先生的回答，好吗？\n19 正式口译员：\n是的。我只是\n20 想重复，确认——并且我说得对，\n21 您知道，他所说的内容。\n22 证人：\n所以，是的，他——他说，我欠——我拥有\n23 50%的——50%，但我并不拥有全部\n24 不动产，我只是\n25 代表家庭。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22\nEntered 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n2 问 Kwok 先生，您拥有50%的什么？\n3 答 Bravo Luck（布拉沃·勒克），50%的股票粉末\n4 ——权力。我不知道。\n我不理解。\n5 私人口译员：\n（听不清。）\n6 正式口译员：\n他拥有——他\n7 说他拥有其50%。\n8 私人口译员：\n——我们能很好地听到您，Holley。\n9 \n10 克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。我将要问——\n11 我将要——\n12 私人口译员：\n我不知道\n13 麦克风是否连接到任何设备。\n14 克莱伯恩女士：\n连接了。连接了。Jeff，如果您\n15 能大声一点？\n16 正式口译员：\nKwok 先生说\n17 他欠——他拥有50%的——股票。是\n18 不动产的股票之类的吗？\n19 我不知道。我不明白。不过，如果\n20 她想帮忙，您可以帮忙。您想让他稍微帮一点\n21 吗？\n22 克莱伯恩女士：\n我不希望。\n23 正式口译员：\n好的。\n24 克莱伯恩女士：\n所以，我将——我将提出\n25 后续问题。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22\n134 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 13 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 12\n\n1 正式口译员：\n好的。\n2 鲍尔迪加先生：好的。但如果是\n3 误译，我需要听到，所以——\n4 克莱伯恩女士：如果可以的话，我将提出一个\n5 澄清性问题。\n6 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n7 问 Kwok 先生，您是否拥有一家名为\n8 Bravo Luck（布拉沃·勒克）的公司50%的权益？\n9 答 我代表我的家庭持有50%的\n10 股票。\n11 问 Kwok 先生，当您使用“家庭”一词时——\n12 鲍尔迪加先生：我能再听一遍吗？\n13 您能重复一下吗？\n14 正式口译员：\n可以。我\n15 代表我的家庭持有该——该公司50%的\n16 股票。\n17 鲍尔迪加先生：好的。\n18 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n19 问 Kwok 先生，当您说家庭时，您指的\n20 是什么？\n21 答 我的家庭是一个大家庭，其中\n22 包括很多人。我的孩子和我的嫂子、\n23 以及所有人在一起。很多人。\n24 问 Kwok 先生，谁拥有一项权益——\n25 鲍尔迪加先生：不好意思。\n我们确实有一份\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 14 of\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日\n\n私人口译员：我只是想问一下，口译内容是否应当是对（听不清）的总结？\n\n克莱伯恩女士（Ms. Claiborn）：在杰夫先生（Mr. Jeff）能力所及的范围内，应当逐字翻译。\n\n私人口译员：对。因此，如果郭先生说“我的儿子、我的女儿、我的兄弟、我的嫂子、我的侄子、我的侄女，很多人”，而口译员却说“嗯，我的很多家人和我的兄弟，很多人”，那么这样是否正确？\n\n克莱伯恩女士：我希望杰夫先生尽可能逐字翻译。因此，有了这一指示，我们能否——\n\n官方口译员：可以。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：——尽我们所能，从现在起做好具体的翻译工作？谢谢。\n\n巴尔迪加先生（Mr. Baldiga）：谢谢。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问：那么，郭先生，谁拥有名为 Bravo Luck（布拉沃·勒克）的公司？\n\n答：我儿子。\n\n问：您儿子叫什么名字？\n\n答：Cheng Wu（程武）。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\nFiled 05/20/22\nEntered 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问：您儿子拥有 Bravo Luck 多久了？\n\n答：我不记得了。\n\n私人口译员：请再说一遍。\n\n官方口译员：我不记得了。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问：那么，郭先生，您在说明您在 Southern Sherry Netherland（南部雪莉·尼德兰）的所有权权益时，所拥有的 50 percent 是什么？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：异议。您可以翻译。\n\n官方口译员：霍利（Holley），您能再重复一遍那个问题吗？\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问：郭先生，您作证称您拥有某家公司 50 percent 的权益，这是对我询问您是否拥有 Sherry Netherland（雪莉·尼德兰）公寓时所作的回答。您能否说明您的意思？\n\n答：Sherry 是一家合作公寓。它没有——它没有——它没有所有权。\n\n私人口译员：霍利女士（Ms. Holley），我可以吗？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：可以，当然。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\nFiled 05/20/22\nEntered 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日\n\n私人口译员：您得说得更大声。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：好的。我们暂时暂停一下。\n\n（不在记录中）\n\n克莱伯恩女士：好的。短暂休息后，我们恢复记录。郭先生，您仍在宣誓之下。\n\n杰夫，请您重新翻译好吗？\n\n官方口译员：好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：上一个问题。您要我再问一遍吗？\n\n官方口译员：好的。您能再问一遍吗？\n\n克莱伯恩女士：好的。我再试一次。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问：郭先生，您今天作证称，您拥有某家公司某项权益的 50 percent；这是您对我询问您是否拥有 Sherry Netherland 一套公寓时所作的回答。您能否说明您的回答？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：异议。\n\n证人：我不知道该如何说明。他说 Sherry Netherland 是一家合作公寓。我没有该房产的契据，我只是代表我的家人拥有该项权利的 50 percent。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：抱歉。请继续。\n\n私人口译员：因为——郭先生确实提到了公司名称 Bravo Luck，但口译员先生没有说出 Bravo Luck 这个词。该公司持有 Sherry Netherland 的权益，而郭先生代表其家人拥有 Bravo Luck 的 50 percent；Bravo Luck 是拥有 Sherry Netherland 的控股公司。Sherry Netherland 是一家合作公寓。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：因此，就口译员未提供证人所使用的确切措辞而言，我提出持续性异议。我并非归咎于任何人或其他什么，但显然，这对于证言的质量至关重要，也是必要的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：我们需要——\n\n巴尔迪加先生：我们必须使用证人所使用的措辞。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：我相信杰夫今天会尽最大努力，尽量逐字翻译所有内容。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：谢谢。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：但请理解，本室内有些术语是杰夫先生并不熟悉的。因此，如有人以公司名称的简称或仅用一个词回答问题，回答应当尽可能具体——\n\n官方口译员：是的，我——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：——如果您能翻译这一点。\n\n官方口译员：——我会尽力，但坦率地说，那位口译员，霍利，那位口译员可能更了解本案及其细节。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：我同意。您能否——\n\n官方口译员：但如果他——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：——您能否把我刚才对郭先生所说的话翻译出来，因为我想确保——\n\n官方口译员：哦。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：——他以易于翻译的方式回答问题。\n\n官方口译员：我只是告诉他，回答要——您知道——简短清楚，但我大致明白他的意思，而且——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：您能否也把郭先生对您所说的话或评论翻译出来？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 19 of\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日\n\n官方口译员：他说他会尽量使其简短清楚，但他需要尽可能说明细节，因为这——这关系到他的生计。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：萨诺夫先生（Mr. Sarnoff）？\n\n萨诺夫先生：是。我只是想明确，如果口译员——译员，即官方译员，与郭先生的口译员之间存在差异，那么译员拥有最终裁断权；除非译员同意口译员提出的翻译差异，否则他们必须在我们依据郭先生私人口译员所述郭先生说了什么之前，先解决该问题。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：我不接受这一点。\n\n萨诺夫先生：没关系。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：那可以是你们的立场。\n\n萨诺夫先生：好的。应当采取的立场是，为使记录准确，译员必须就郭先生所说的话与口译员达成一致。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：那个——我理解你们的立场。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 Filed 05/20/22 Entered 05/20/22 11:52:18 Page 20 of\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日\n\n官方口译员：那么，霍利，如果我遗漏了任何内容，他的私人口译员想补充我遗漏的内容，一些细节信息，她是否可以补充；如果我同意——您知道——我遗漏了什么或他说了什么，也许我遗漏了一些细节信息和一些——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：我认为今天更好的做法——\n\n官方口译员：好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：——并且为了清晰的翻译和清晰的记录——\n\n官方口译员：好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：——是由您，杰夫，翻译——\n\n官方口译员：嗯哼。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：——我的问题，并翻译郭先生的回答。\n\n官方口译员：好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：如果郭先生认为，基于您的翻译，您没有正确翻译，那么他可以再次作证，而您可以再试一次。\n\n但我希望限制译员之间以及与郭先生私人译员之间的互动，以便我们有一份正式记录：提问者是我，问题得到正式翻译，郭先生作出回答，回答也得到正式翻译。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：但是，霍利，问题在于，证人不知道杰夫的英文表述是否确实准确。你不能把这留给证人。这就是我们配备复核口译员的原因。如果他会说英语，我们就不需要任何口译员了。他做不到这一点。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：我认为，从实际情况来看，郭先生会足够的英语，能够知道自己是否回答了问题。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：不，他不会。我提出异议。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：嗯，我——我认为，根据我个人的经验，这一直是我所见到的情况。\n\n话虽如此，我们会尽力——\n\n巴尔迪加先生：我同意。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：——然后看看进展如何。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：好的。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：好的？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\nFiled 05/20/22\nEntered 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问：那么，回到问答。郭先生，您是否拥有 Genever Holdings Corporation（日内瓦控股公司）的权益？\n\n答：我只是拥有——实际上，我没有，但我只是持有——我只是代表我的家人持有一些权益。\n\n问：除您之外，是否有人获授权代表 Genever Holdings Corporation 行事？\n\n答：我儿子。\n\n问：是否有任何文件记载您在 Genever Holdings Corporation 中的所有权权益，不论该权益为何？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：异议。您——您可以回答。\n\n证人：没有。\n\n私人口译员：霍利女士，我能否——首先，上一次——当他在就证人的证言及应当如何作证向证人作出指示时，我认为口译员——官方口译员没有翻译您的指示。他在告诉证人应当做什么，而不是您所说的内容。\n\n而现在，证人正在说，他两次询问口译员——您谈的是所有权，您谈的是所有权权益。现在他两次使用了这些词，最后，杰夫先生说“是”。然后，他回答“没有”，但该互动没有被翻译。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：杰夫先生，您能翻译吗？\n\n官方口译员：我不知道她刚才说了什么。我不知道。我不明白她在说什么。\n\n私人口译员：我的意思是，每一个词都应当翻译。证人——证人所说的每一个词都应当翻译。霍利女士所说的话应当翻译，对吗？\n\n克莱伯恩女士：对。\n\n私人口译员：对。但他将——没有翻译霍利女士的——而且您没有翻译郭先生所说的一切。\n\n官方口译员：好的。也许——也许我们应该让她来翻译。我将退出。我不知道——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：我将把——\n\n官方口译员：——我不熟悉——\n\n克莱伯恩女士：——我将把该事项暂时暂停。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\nFiled 05/20/22\nEntered 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日\n\n克莱伯恩女士：该事项暂时暂停。\n\n官方口译员：是，是，是。\n\n（不在记录中）\n\n克莱伯恩女士：好的。短暂休息后，我们恢复记录。郭先生，您仍在宣誓之下。\n\n克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n问：郭先生，您今天随身携带任何美国货币吗？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：您提交破产案件时，您是否持有任何美国货币？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您是否拥有任何外币？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您是否拥有任何数字货币？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您在美国是否拥有任何种类的金融账户？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您在美国境外是否拥有任何种类的金融账户？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：3月21日，您作证称您没有工作，也没有收入来源。谁支付您的\n\n2 家庭开支？\n3 答\n有时是我儿子，有时是我妻子，或者\n4 有时是我的其他家庭成员。\n5 问\n您可以使用任何信用卡吗？\n6 答\n不可以。\n7 问\n您可以使用任何与银行账户关联的借记卡\n8 吗？\n9 答\n不可以。\n10 问\n您如何支付杂货费用？\n11 答\n我儿子、我妻子、我家庭成员的\n12 公司支付。\n13 问\n您儿子住在哪里？\n14 答\nLondon（伦敦）。\n15 问\n您儿子如何给您汇钱？\n16 答\n他在一家位于New York（纽约）的公司设有家族\n17 办公室。\n18 问\n该家族办公室会给您钱吗？\n19 答\n他们支付上述开支。\n20 问\n“家族办公室”一词是什么意思？\n21 BALDIGA先生：\n异议。您可以回答。\n22 法庭口译员：\n我可以请求——\n23 请他重复一遍吗？\n24 CLAIBORN女士：\n可以。\n25 法庭口译员：\n好的。您能否\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok） - April 6, 2022 134\n1 ——\n\n2 BALDIGA先生：\n对。他还必须\n3 为证人翻译我所说的话。\n4 CLAIBORN女士：\n您还什么都没说，\n5 而他将要求证人重复其回答，\n6 然后他会翻译，之后我们\n7 可以进行您想进行的任何讨论。\n8 私人口译员：\n律师提出了\n9 异议。口译员没有翻译\n10 该异议。\n11 CLAIBORN女士：\n我很乐意重复\n12 问题，但如果有人在基本问题上\n13 不断打断，我们今天就无法以有意义的方式\n14 取得任何进展。\n15 BALDIGA先生：\n不，我没有打断，但是\n16 ——\n17 CLAIBORN女士：\n那么让我再试一次。\n18 BALDIGA先生：\n好的。但请等一下。如果我\n19 提出异议或说其他任何话，都必须\n20 予以翻译。\n21 CLAIBORN女士：\n您没有留出\n22 翻译的时间。那么，Jeff先生，您能翻译\n23 刚才发生的那段交流吗？\n24 法庭口译员：\n好的。我\n25 不知道。打断实在太多了。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵 - April 6, 2022\n\n1 CLAIBORN女士：\n对。\n2 法庭口译员：\nHolley，我不能\n3 ——继续这样下去。我太分心了，而且我\n4 不知道。这只是一个简单的——请证人\n5 简单地重复一遍，然后——\n6 CLAIBORN女士：\n让我试着——\n7 法庭口译员：\n——结果所有\n8 这些人都介入了。\n9 CLAIBORN女士：\n没错。让我——\n10 法庭口译员：\n我们不会\n11 有任何进展。\n12 CLAIBORN女士：\n让我再问一次\n13 这个问题。\n14 由 CLAIBORN女士提问：\n15 问\n郭先生，您所说的\n16 “家族办公室”是什么意思？\n17 BALDIGA先生：\n异议。您可以回答。\n18 CLAIBORN女士：\nBaldiga先生，这个词\n19 在所有文件中都有。您能重复——翻译吗？\n20 法庭口译员：\n不，我不会\n21 继续下去。Holley，我请求离席。我\n22 很抱歉。这——这不会——\n23 CLAIBORN女士：\n请暂停一下。\n24 法庭口译员：\n——这太\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22 录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 28 页，共\n\n郭文贵 - April 6, 2022\n1 多了。\n2 （休庭记录外）\n3 CLAIBORN女士：\n短暂休息后，我们恢复\n4 记录。\n5 郭先生，您仍在宣誓状态。在休息\n6 期间，我与Baldiga律师交谈，我们已\n7 同意，保留对问题形式提出的所有\n8 异议。\n9 我将回到我的提问。\n10 由 CLAIBORN女士提问：\n11 问\n休息后我们留下的问题\n12 是，您所说的“家族办公室”是什么意思？\n13 答\n他们代表我的大家庭。这是\n14 一家由我儿子、我女儿、我妻子设立的公司，并且是一家\n15 代表我的家庭进行投资的公司。\n16 问\n该公司的名称是什么？\n17 答\nGolden Spring Europe（欧洲金泉）。\n18 问\n您的意思是Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）吗？\n19 答\n名称大致如此。\n20 问\n您所吃餐食的费用由谁支付？\n21 答\n有时由我妻子的公司支付，有时由我的\n22 家族办公室、我儿子的公司支付。\n23 问\n郭先生，您使用“家族\n24 办公室”一词时，是否指称名为\n25 Golden Spring New York Limited（纽约金泉有限公司）的公司？\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵 - April 6, 2022\n\n1 法庭口译员：\n公司的名称\n2 是什么？我可以——您能重复一遍吗？\n3 CLAIBORN女士：\n名称是Golden Spring\n4 New York Limited。\n5 证人：\n是。\n6 由 CLAIBORN女士提问：\n7 问 您在破产案件中提交了一份\n8 涵盖您2月份开支的\n9 报告。\n10 法庭口译员：\n我可以再重复\n11 一遍吗？\n12 CLAIBORN女士：\n也许我再试一次。\n13 法庭口译员：\n谢谢。\n14 由 CLAIBORN女士提问：\n15 问 郭先生，您提交了一份涵盖 February 2022 的月度\n16 经营报告，该\n17 报告显示您支出了约 \\$160,000。\n18 BALDIGA先生：\n异议。我提出异议。\n19 由 CLAIBORN女士提问：\n20 问 谁为 \\$160,000 的支出提供资金？\n21 答 部分来自Golden Spring家族办公室\n22 和该公司，部分由我妻子及我\n23 妻子的公司支付。\n24 问 您妻子公司的名称是什么？\n25 答 Greenwich（格林尼治），位于Connecticut（康涅狄格州）。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵 - April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 您指的是该公司吗？\n2 答 是，公司名称。\n3 问 您妻子的公司\n4 Greenwich支付哪些开支？\n5 答 主要是食物，因为我住在我妻子的\n6 房子里。我们分担清洁费用、开支，因为\n7 ——还有花园维护费用。\n8 身份不明的发言人：\n好的。我们能否\n9 短暂停一下，以便我与我的共同律师\n10 或我的同事交谈？\n11 BALDIGA先生：\n不，我们就等着。\n12 由 CLAIBORN女士提问：\n13 问 您妻子的公司Greenwich\n14 从哪里获得资金？\n15 答 我不知道。\n16 问 您妻子的公司Greenwich是否支付过\n17 任何专业费用？\n18 答 我不知道。\n19 问 实际上由您妻子\n20 付款吗？\n21 答 是。\n22 问 您妻子有支票账户吗？\n23 答 我不知道。\n24 问 您妻子有借记卡吗？\n25 答 我不知道。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n134 录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 31 页，共\n\n郭文贵 - April 6, 2022 30\n1 问 您与您妻子在餐馆用餐时，\n2 谁付账？\n3 答 我从未与我妻子去过餐馆。\n4 问 从来没有？\n5 答 我认为我被这些人追赶，所以我\n6 从未去过。我认为我——您知道，我认为我被\n7 这些人追赶。\n8 问 您妻子买杂货吗？\n9 答 有时。\n10 问 她如何付款？\n11 答 我不知道。\n12 问 为什么Golden Spring New York支付\n13 您的一些个人开支？\n14 答 因为我是家庭成员之一，而且\n15 我儿子非常成功，他非常爱我。\n16 问 还有其他原因吗？\n17 答 我不知道。\n18 问 Golden Spring支付您哪些\n19 个人生活开支？\n20 答 安保费用，因为我被后面的那些人\n21 追赶，还有\n22 交通、衣物和一些生活用品。\n23 问 Golden Spring New\n24 York中是谁——\n25 CLAIBORN女士： 等一下。我要\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵 - April 6, 2022\n\n1 问一个完整的问题。\n2 由 CLAIBORN女士提问：\n3 问 那么，Golden Spring New\n4 York中由谁授权支付您的个人\n5 生活开支？\n6 答 我儿子。\n7 问 请说明您儿子如何授权\n8 这些付款。\n9 答 我通常与Golden Spring、\n10 该公司的经理和首席执行官沟通。\n11 私人口译员：\n（听不清）\n12 董事，不是经理。\n13 法庭口译员：\n您能否——\n14 好的。董事，不是经理。\n15 BALDIGA先生：\n谢谢。\n16 由 CLAIBORN女士提问：\n17 问 郭先生，您刚才所说的董事\n18 或经理是谁？\n19 答 Wang Yanping（王燕平）。\n20 问 Ping女士是Golden Spring New\n21 York的高级职员吗？\n22 答 她是一位女士。她是女性。\n23 问 Ping女士是Golden\n24 Spring New York的公司高级职员吗？\n25 答 是。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵 - April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 她的职务是什么？\n2 答 她是高级职员或董事。\n3 问 她有职务名称吗？\n4 答 我不知道。\n5 问 郭先生，您是Golden Spring New\n6 York的公司高级职员吗？\n7 答 现在？\n8 问 是。\n9 答 不是。\n10 问 郭先生，您过去是否曾是\n11 Golden Spring New York的公司高级职员？\n12 答 该公司于2015成立时，我似乎担任过一个\n13 职务。我忘了当时是什么职务\n14 了。\n15 问 郭先生，您在Golden Spring New\n16 York拥有任何权益吗？\n17 答 没有。\n18 问 过去您是否曾在Golden Spring New\n19 York拥有任何形式的所有权权益？\n20 答 没有。\n21 问 您是否参与了Golden Spring New\n22 York的设立？\n23 答 是。\n24 问 您在设立Golden Spring New\n25 York时担任何角色？\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n134 录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 34 页，共\n\n郭文贵 - April 6, 2022 33\n1 答 顾问，提供意见、建议。\n2 问 您儿子是否参与了Golden Spring New\n3 York的设立？\n4 答 他是主要人员。他——他是\n5 主要人员。\n6 问 Golden Spring New York设立时，\n7 谁拥有New York——Golden\n8 New——Golden Spring New York的所有权权益？\n9 答 我儿子。\n10 问 Golden Spring Hong Kong（香港金泉）在Golden Spring New York中\n11 拥有任何所有权权益吗？\n12 答 我不知道该权益的细节，\n13 因为这——这两者合并在一起，被\n14 视为一回事。\n15 问 Golden Spring Hong Kong与Golden Spring New York是\n16 不同的公司吗？\n17 答 我不知道。\n18 问 谁拥有Golden Spring Hong Kong？\n19 答 我儿子。\n20 问 2015年Golden Spring New York\n21 设立时，谁拥有Golden Spring Hong Kong？\n22 答 我不知道。\n23 问 您是Golden\n24 Spring Hong Kong的公司高级职员吗？\n25 答 我不记得。\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵 - April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 您是否曾是Golden Spring\n2 Hong Kong的公司高级职员？\n3 答 我不记得。\n4 问 您在Golden Spring\n5 Hong Kong拥有任何所有权权益吗？\n6 答 没有。\n7 问 您过去是否曾在Golden Spring\n8 Hong Kong拥有所有权权益？\n9 答 没有。\n10 问 Golden Spring New\n11 York从事何种业务？\n12 答 我不知道。\n13 问 Golden Spring New York如何产生\n14 收入？\n15 答 我不知道。\n16 私人口译员：\nHolley女士，我\n17 不知道这——他所说的（听不清），\n18 是“Golden Spring New York如何产生收入”，\n19 而不是“Golden Spring New York如何赚钱”，\n20 对吗？\n21 CLAIBORN女士：\n那基本上就是我的\n22 问题。\n23 私人口译员：\n是的，因此\n24 口译员不应当那样说——把Golden Spring New York——如何\n\n案件 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n134 录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 36 页，共\n\n郭文贵 - April 6, 2022 35\n1 Golden Spring New York赚钱，向——向——向\n2 郭先生翻译。\n3 法庭口译员： 产生钱，是的。产生收入，产生钱。\n4 私人口译员： 不，但您说的是\n5 ——\n6 CLAIBORN女士： 我很乐意\n7 具体地问。\n8 由 CLAIBORN女士提问：\n9 问 Golden Spring New York如何\n10 赚钱？\n11 答 我不知道。\n12 问 2015年，您是否参与了\n13 Golden Spring New York的业务？\n14 答 我不记得。\n15 问 您是否曾向Golden Spring New\n16 York赠与金钱？\n17 答 没有。\n18 问 您是否曾向Golden Spring New\n19 York支付任何金钱？\n20 答 没有。\n21 问 您是否曾向Golden Spring New\n22 York转移过任何种类的财产？\n23 答 没有。\n24 问 您是否曾为Golden Spring New\n\n1 问 以任何方式向纽约金泉（Golden Spring New York）借过钱吗？\n\n2 答 没有。\n\n3 问 您是否曾向纽约金泉出借过资金？\n\n5 答 没有。\n\n6 问 您是否曾将自己的任何资金投资于纽约金泉？\n\n8 答 没有。\n\n9 问 王艳萍（Yanping Wang）担任何种公司职务？\n\n11 答 高级管理人员兼董事。\n\n12 问 王艳萍是否担任纽约金泉的总裁？\n\n14 答 是。\n\n15 问 纽约金泉是否还有其他公司高级管理人员？\n\n17 答 有。\n\n18 问 他们是谁？\n\n19 答 我不太清楚他们的姓名。\n\n21 问 请告诉我您记得的内容。\n\n22 答 什么——我不太清楚他们的姓名，而且——因为我连律师的姓名都不记得。我不想误导您，霍利（Holley）。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 纽约金泉有多少名高级管理人员？\n\n3 答 我不记得。哦，我不知道。\n\n4 对不起。我不知道。\n\n5 问 纽约金泉是否有董事？\n\n7 答 王艳萍。\n\n8 问 王女士是否是纽约金泉唯一的董事？\n\n10 答 我不知道。\n\n11 问 纽约金泉从何处获得用于支付您个人开支的资金？\n\n13 答 我不知道。\n\n14 问 纽约金泉是否有雇员？\n\n16 答 有。\n\n17 问 多少名？\n\n18 答 我不知道。\n\n19 问 您目前是否以任何方式参与纽约金泉的业务？\n\n21 答 没有。\n\n22 问 纽约金泉拥有什么资产？\n\n23 答 我不知道。\n\n24 问 纽约金泉愿意向您出借 \\$8 million。它从何处获得这\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日 38\n\n1 \\$8 million？\n\n2 答 我不知道。\n\n3 问 是否是您要求纽约金泉向您出借 \\$8 million？\n\n5 答 不是。\n\n6 问 是谁要求纽约金泉向您出借 \\$8 million？\n\n8 答 我的律师。\n\n9 问 哪位律师？\n\n10 答 在场的 Aaron Mitchell（艾伦·米切尔）。\n\n11 问 您指的是 Aaron Mitchell 吗？\n\n12 答 现在我记起他的名字了。\n\n13 身份不明的发言人：为作记录起见，我不确定 Mitchell 先生是否已登记出庭。如果他将在此代表债务人，适宜由他（听不清）提交出庭登记。\n\n18 克莱伯恩女士（MS. CLAIBORN）：我相信我今天早些时候确实念过 Mitchell 先生的名字。\n\n20 身份不明的发言人：他尚未提交——\n\n21 克莱伯恩女士：他确实签署了——\n\n22 身份不明的发言人：——本案的出庭登记。\n\n24 克莱伯恩女士：谢谢。您能翻译一下吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 法庭正式口译员：我没有完全听清。我知道距离有些远。我不——\n\n4 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n5 问 纽约金泉是否有任何银行账户？\n\n7 答 我不知道。\n\n8 问 您是否能够使用纽约金泉的财务账户？\n\n10 答 不能。\n\n11 问 您是否有权代表纽约金泉进行金融交易？\n\n14 答 没有。\n\n15 私人口译员：没有。不是这个问题。\n\n17 法庭正式口译员：问题是什么？\n\n18 克莱伯恩女士：我很乐意重复问题。\n\n20 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n21 问 您是否有权代表纽约金泉进行金融交易？郭先生，如果您不回答——如果您不理解我的问题——\n\n25 法庭正式口译员：他问的是\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 他——如果我是在问他是否有权使用——纽约金泉的账户进行交易。您知道。\n\n4 克莱伯恩女士：那不是我的问题。\n\n5 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n6 问 郭先生，您是否获授权代表纽约金泉进行任何种类的金融交易？\n\n9 答 没有。\n\n10 巴尔迪加先生（MR. BALDIGA）：对不起，口译员可能有意见。\n\n12 克莱伯恩女士：请您翻译一下，可以吗？\n\n14 法庭正式口译员：好的。她说这是交易——金融交易的交易——\n\n17 私人口译员：交易。\n\n18 法庭正式口译员：——交易——\n\n20 私人口译员：不是交易买卖。\n\n21 法庭正式口译员：他说，不，他没有——我没有获授权进行交易、金融交易。\n\n24 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n25 问 您目前为纽约金泉做什么工作，如有的话？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 纽约金泉？\n\n2 答 没有。\n\n3 问 纽约金泉是否支付您儿子的个人生活开支？\n\n5 答 我不知道。\n\n6 问 纽约金泉是否支付您女儿的个人生活开支？\n\n8 答 我不知道。\n\n9 问 您是否欠纽约金泉任何款项？\n\n11 答 是。\n\n12 问 多少？\n\n13 答 大约超过 \\$21 million。\n\n14 问 您为何欠纽约金泉超过 \\$21 million？\n\n16 答 因为在过去五年中，我被许多债权人起诉。\n\n18 问 纽约金泉是否——\n\n19 克莱伯恩女士：对不起。\n\n20 法庭正式口译员：我只是请他重复。\n\n22 证人：在过去五年中，我受到中国共产党的追捕。\n\n24 法庭正式口译员：我没有听清。请——我请他再重复一次。\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日 134\n\n1 次。\n\n2 巴尔迪加先生：简短——简短回答。\n\n3 证人：在过去五年中，我被中国共产党设计的一些案件困住——困住，其中包括过去的案件，那个案件。我需要——需要支付大笔律师费，所以我得到了纽约金泉的支持。这是我欠 \\$21 million 的主要原因。\n\n11 私人口译员：口译员漏译了，律师——律师费。\n\n13 法庭正式口译员：是的，我说了律师费。我说了。难道我没有说律师费吗？\n\n15 私人口译员：我不这么认为，但只要您说了就行。\n\n17 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n18 问 \\$21 million 中有多少是律师费？\n\n20 法庭正式口译员：您能再重复一遍吗？\n\n22 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n23 问 \\$21 million 中有多少——\n\n24 法庭正式口译员：好的。\n\n25 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 ——由律师费构成？\n\n2 答 我认为其中大部分是律师费。\n\n3 问 纽约金泉为什么支付您的律师费？\n\n5 答 因为纽约金泉是我儿子和我家人的公司，他们非常爱我。他们希望——他们希望我活着，而不是被我身后的人杀害。\n\n9 问 您与纽约金泉是否有任何书面协议？\n\n11 答 有。\n\n12 问 什么法律——对不起。您与纽约金泉订立了哪些书面协议？\n\n14 答 是借款——借钱协议。\n\n16 问 您何时订立该借款协议？\n\n18 答 几年前。我知道——我不知道大概时间。\n\n20 私人口译员：我不记得。\n\n21 克莱伯恩女士：什么——\n\n22 法庭正式口译员：什么——是的，我不记得时间。\n\n24 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n25 问 您与纽约金泉所订法律协议的条款是什么\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 ？对不起。让我重新表述。您与纽约金泉所订书面协议的条款是什么？\n\n4 答 我不记得。\n\n5 身份不明的发言人：对不起。请您重复一下英文，可以吗？\n\n7 克莱伯恩女士：请继续说——重复。\n\n9 法庭正式口译员：我不记得。\n\n11 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n12 问 根据您与纽约金泉的该书面协议，您是否有义务偿还全部款项？\n\n15 答 是。\n\n16 巴尔迪加先生：问题还有后半部分。\n\n18 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n19 问 纽约金泉代表您支付给律师的款项。\n\n21 答 是。\n\n22 私人口译员：只是口译上有一点差异。例如，口译员没有翻译，根据该协议，您是否有义务将它们全部——\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n134 第 46 页，共\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日 45\n\n1 ——偿还全部款项。全部款项，也就是说，您知道——\n\n3 巴尔迪加先生：好的。\n\n4 私人口译员：——花在律师身上的款项。\n\n6 巴尔迪加先生：也许 Holley 可以澄清这一点。\n\n8 私人口译员：是的。\n\n9 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n10 问 我要问一个较长的问题。我会把它分成几个部分。\n\n12 郭先生，您是否有义务向纽约金泉偿还纽约金泉代表您支付给律师的全部款项？\n\n16 答 是。\n\n17 问 该与纽约金泉的协议是否为书面形式？\n\n19 答 是。\n\n20 问 那是否是您几分钟前提到的同一份书面协议？\n\n22 答 是。\n\n23 问 您与纽约金泉是否有一份以上的书面协议？\n\n25 答 是。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 您与纽约金泉还有哪些书面协议？\n\n3 答 上周，我与 Logan Cheng（罗根·程）有一个案件。与 Logan Cheng 的和解，和解所用的资金是我从纽约金泉借来的钱。\n\n7 问 您与纽约金泉是否还有其他书面协议？\n\n9 答 我不记得。\n\n10 问 纽约金泉是否与任何在诉讼中代表您的律师订有费用协议？\n\n13 您能——您能回答吗，郭先生？\n\n14 法庭正式口译员：任何协议——您能再重复一次吗？\n\n16 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n17 问 纽约金泉是否与任何在诉讼中代表郭先生的律师订有——任何种类的费用协议？\n\n20 答 我不知道。\n\n21 问 在您于伦敦对 UBS（瑞银）提起的诉讼中，谁代表您？\n\n23 答 伦敦的律师——律师事务所。\n\n24 问 名称是什么？\n\n25 答 我不完全记得\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 英文名称。\n\n2 问 纽约金泉是否与那位伦敦律师订有费用协议？\n\n4 答 应该有。\n\n5 巴尔迪加先生：对不起。答案是什么？\n\n7 法庭正式口译员：应该有。\n\n8 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n9 问 您是否知道其是否确实有——有费用协议？\n\n11 答 我不确定。\n\n12 问 纽约金泉中授权支付您诉讼开支的人是谁？\n\n15 答 我儿子。\n\n16 问 为了将纽约金泉的资金用于使您受益，您的儿子是否必须与其他任何人交谈？\n\n19 答 是。\n\n20 问 您的儿子需要与谁交谈？\n\n21 答 他需要与我的家庭成员交谈，其中包括一百多名家庭成员，因为他们有一个基金。\n\n24 私人口译员：那个——数字是 181。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交日期 05/20/22\n134 录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 49 页，共\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）— 2022年4月6日 48\n\n1 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n\n2 问 郭先生，如果您的儿子想给您 \\$100，他是否必须向纽约金泉的某人寻求授权？\n\n5 答 我不知道。\n\n6 问 当您说您的儿子必须与纽约金泉的某人交谈时，他需要与多少人交谈？\n\n9 答 我不知道细节。\n\n10 问 就纽约金泉愿意向您出借的 \\$8 million 而言，您的儿子是否必须获得纽约金泉其他人员对此项交易的同意？\n\n14 答 我不知道。\n\n15 问 您是否曾去过纽约市纽约金泉的办公室？\n\n17 答 去过。\n\n18 问 您多久去一次纽约市的纽约金泉办公室？\n\n20 答 没有——没有固定。有时我一个月去几次。有时我几个月没有——没有去过那里。\n\n23 问 您上一次去纽约金泉办公室是什么时候？\n\n25 答 昨天。\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）－2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 您为什么去？\n2 答 为准备今天的会议。\n3 问 您儿子是否就\n4 该笔 $8 million 贷款与 Yanping Wang（王艳萍）交谈过？\n5 答 我不知道。\n6 问 您是否就 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）的\n7 $8 million 贷款协商过条款？\n8 答 没有。\n9 问 代表您协商该笔 $8\n10 million 贷款的人是谁？\n11 答 我的律师。\n12 问 哪位律师？\n13 答 Aaron Mitchell（艾伦·米切尔）。\n14 问 律师 Aaron Mitchell 在 Golden Spring New York\n15 与谁进行协商？\n16 官方口译员：\n您能重复\n17 一遍吗？\n18 由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n19 问 律师 Aaron Mitchell 在 Golden Spring New York\n20 与谁进行协商？\n21 答 我不知道。我的儿子。\n22 问 您是否于 2022年2月从\n23 Lamp Capital, LLC（朗普资本有限责任公司）借入 $1 million？\n24 答 是。\n25 问 Lamp Capital, LLC 的该笔贷款是否以\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）－2022年4月6日\n\n1 书面形式作出？\n2 答 没有。\n3 问 来自\n4 Lamp Capital 的贷款条款是什么？\n5 答 我不知道细节。\n6 问 Lamp Capital, LLC 的成员是谁？\n7 答 我的儿子。\n8 问 Lamp\n9 Capital, LLC 是否还有其他成员？\n10 答 我不知道。\n11 问 Lamp\n12 Capital, LLC 的管理成员是谁？\n13 答 我不知道。\n14 问 Lamp Capital 中授权该笔贷款的\n15 人是谁？\n16 答 我的儿子。\n17 问 Lamp Capital, LLC 的资产是什么？\n18 答 我不知道。\n19 问 Lamp Capital 拥有什么？\n20 答 我不知道。\n21 问 您是否曾以任何\n22 方式向 Lamp Capital 提供资金？\n23 答 没有。\n24 问 您是否曾向 Lamp\n25 Capital, LLC 投资任何资金？\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）－2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 没有。\n2 问 为什么是 Lamp Capital 向您出借该 $1\n3 million，而不是 Golden Spring New York？\n4 答 我不知道。\n5 问 Lamp Capital\n6 向您出借的 $1 million 的来源是什么？\n7 答 我不知道。\n8 CLAIBORN 女士：我们为什么不休息五\n9 分钟去洗手间？实际上，我们将在 12:10\n10 重新开庭。\n11 （休庭）\n12 CLAIBORN 女士：短暂休庭后，我们现在\n13 恢复记录。\n14 郭先生，您仍在宣誓之下。\n15 由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n16 问 郭先生，您是否参与了\n17 选择在伦敦诉讼中代理您的\n18 律师？\n19 答 是。\n20 问 您在伦敦的律师是否要求\n21 预付聘用费？\n22 答 是。\n23 问 您是否向您在伦敦的律师支付了\n24 预付聘用费？\n25 答 是。\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）－2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 多少？\n2 答 300,000 英镑。\n3 问 该笔 300,000 英镑的预付聘用费\n4 何时支付？\n5 答 大约两年前。\n6 问 谁为该预付聘用费提供资金？\n7 答 我的儿子帮忙支付了——支付了该笔费用。\n8 问 您的儿子是否支付了全部预付聘用费？\n9 答 是。\n10 问 您的儿子是否从其\n11 个人资金中支付了预付聘用费？\n12 答 应当来自英国的一家公司。\n13 问 支付该预付聘用费的公司\n14 名称是什么？\n15 答 我不记得。\n16 问 Golden Spring New York 是否向您的\n17 伦敦律师支付了该预付聘用费？\n18 答 我不记得细节，因为除预付聘用费外，还有其他——\n19 之后还有几笔\n20 付款，您知道的。\n21 问 郭先生，如果您想去买一双\n22 鞋，您会如何支付这双鞋？\n23 答 我会让 Golden Spring New York 支付\n24 该费用。\n25 问 该过程会如何进行？\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8\n134 录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 54 页，共 53 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）－2022年4月6日 53\n\n1 答 我会与董事以及 E Wa Wang（E Wa Wang，发音不清）交谈，\n2 请她联系——与我儿子交谈，\n3 并支付鞋款。\n4 问 鞋店如何收到钱？\n5 鞋店。\n6 答 我不知道。通常由 E Wa Wang\n7 进行沟通，因为我的英语能力\n8 不足以沟通。\n9 问 如果您去了商店，试穿了鞋子，\n10 并想从店里把鞋带回家，您将\n11 如何支付鞋款？\n12 答 近几年，我基本上从未\n13 买过一双鞋。\n14 问 您最后一次支付的东西是什么？\n15 答 最近我没有出去买任何东西。\n16 BALDIGA 先生：抱歉。您能重复\n17 一遍吗？\n18 官方口译员：\n最近我\n19 没有出去买任何东西。\n20 由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n21 问 我的问题不是“最近”。我的问题\n22 是，您最后购买的东西是什么？\n23 答 我不记得。\n24 问 您是否曾在餐馆用餐？\n25 答 近几年没有。\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n134 录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 55 页，共 54 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）－2022年4月6日 54\n\n1 问 在 COVID 19 之前，您是否在\n2 餐馆用餐？\n3 答 非常少，因为我害怕被我身后的人\n4 杀害，因为我一直\n5 处于被追赶的过程中。\n6 问 您在餐馆用餐时，是否由您\n7 支付账单？\n8 答 我没有钱支付，所以我\n9 不去那里。\n10 问 郭先生，如果您想买一杯\n11 咖啡，您会如何支付？\n12 答 我从未买过一杯咖啡。我——\n13 我害怕我身后的人会在\n14 咖啡中毒害我。\n15 问 郭先生，如果您想买水，\n16 您在外面并且想买水，您会\n17 如何支付？\n18 答 嗯，自 2017 起，我不——我没有\n19 出去在外面买水。\n20 私人口译员：在细微含义上存在\n21 一个（听不清）的差异。\n22 官方口译员：您能——您能\n23 重复一下——您能重复——\n24 证人：自 2017 起，我从未到\n25 外面走动，然后买水或咖啡。\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）－2022年4月6日\n\n1 由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n2 问 郭先生，您是否在任何\n3 共同基金中拥有任何权益？\n4 答 没有。\n5 问 您是否拥有任何债券？\n6 答 没有。\n7 问 您是否拥有任何公司的\n8 公开交易股票？\n9 答 没有。\n10 问 您是否拥有任何汽车？\n11 答 没有。\n12 问 您是否可以使用任何汽车？\n13 答 是。\n14 问 您可以使用谁的汽车？\n15 答 我儿子的以及 Golden Springs 的。\n16 问 Golden Spring 是否为您提供一辆\n17 供您使用的汽车？\n18 答 是。\n19 问 那是什么类型的汽车？\n20 答 Maybach（迈巴赫）。\n21 私人口译员：迈巴赫。\n22 官方口译员：什么？\n23 私人口译员：迈巴赫。\n24 官方口译员：迈巴赫？好的。\n25 我不知道它的名称。\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）－2022年4月6日\n\n1 证人：迈巴赫。\n2 由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n3 问 郭先生，您有驾驶执照吗？\n4 答 我有香港驾驶执照。\n5 问 您在美国开车吗？\n6 答 几乎不开。\n7 问 您开车时，开谁的车？\n8 答 Golden Spring 的。\n9 问 您在 Greenwich（格林尼治）的\n10 住所是否停放一辆车？\n11 答 是。\n12 问 那是什么车？\n13 答 迈巴赫。\n14 问 您是否拥有任何航空器？\n15 答 没有。\n16 问 您是否曾拥有任何航空器？\n17 答 以前有。\n18 问 您何时拥有航空器？\n19 答 大概 2010 至 2016 年。\n20 问 您拥有过多少架航空器？\n21 答 一架。\n22 问 是什么？\n23 答 Airbus 319（空中客车 319）。319。\n24 问 该架 Airbus 319 后来怎么样了？\n25 答 它被 UBS（瑞银集团）和中国\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）－2022年4月6日\n\n1 共产党没收了。\n2 问 好的。您是否拥有任何船舶？\n3 答 没有。\n4 问 名为 Lady May（“五月女士号”）的游艇由谁拥有？\n5 答 我的女儿。\n6 问 您的女儿是否以其\n7 个人名义拥有 Lady May？\n8 答 应当是由一家公司拥有。\n9 问 拥有 Lady May 的公司\n10 名称是什么？\n11 答 我不知道。\n12 问 Lady May 目前在哪里？\n13 答 我不知道。\n14 问 自提交破产申请以来，您是否\n15 要求您的女儿将 Lady May 返还至\n16 纽约？\n17 答 我确实要求了她，并要求她与其\n18 律师交谈，将该船返还至纽约。\n19 问 您何时进行过该次谈话？\n20 答 上个月，在开庭日期之后。在\n21 与您会面之后。\n22 问 您的女儿说了什么？\n23 答 她说她会与其\n24 律师交谈，然后与我的律师交谈。\n25 问 您的女儿是否同意让 Lady\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n134 录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 59 页，共 58 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）－2022年4月6日 58\n\n1 May 返回纽约？\n2 答 她不愿与我详细交谈。她想——她想与其\n3 律师交谈。\n4 \n5 问 您的女儿是否拒绝了您要求\n6 她将 Lady May 返还纽约的请求？\n7 答 没有，他没有——她没有。\n8 私人口译员：该问题\n9 没有被完整翻译。\n10 官方口译员：我知道，但她——她已经——他已经\n11 回答了，而且——\n12 BALDIGA 先生：等他讲完。\n13 证人：没有，他——没有。\n14 由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n15 问 郭先生，您是否拥有或在任何\n16 信托中拥有权益？\n17 答 没有。\n18 问 您是否为任何信托的受益人？\n19 答 没有。\n20 问 这是一个很长的问题。郭先生，与您\n21 针对 Baosheng Guo（郭保生）的诉讼有关而向您支付的 $12,000 支票\n22 在哪里？\n23 答 在律师的托管账户中。\n24 问 持有该支票的律师\n25 叫什么名字？\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）－2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 我无法完整说出该律师的名字。\n2 \n3 问 该律师的名字是什么？\n4 答 我不能——我无法读出——\n5 ——说出他的名字。\n6 问 持有该支票的律师是否就是在该\n7 诉讼中代理您的同一名律师？\n8 \n9 答 应该是。\n10 问 在您的附表 A-B 中，您没有披露\n11 该 $12,000 支票。为什么？\n12 BALDIGA 先生：等问题问完。不。\n13 他能翻译那个吗？\n14 由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n15 问 您为什么没有披露该 $12,000\n16 支票？\n17 答 我的律师认为，因为该笔钱\n18 不在我的账户中，所以我不被允许——我们不——\n19 我不应当披露该笔钱。\n20 问 好的。郭先生，您拥有任何专利吗？\n21 答 没有。\n22 问 您拥有任何著作权吗？\n23 答 没有。\n24 问 您拥有任何形式的\n25 知识产权吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8\n提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）－2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 没有。\n2 BALDIGA 先生：请原谅。Holley，我不\n3 确定您是否会回到这个问题，但这里\n4 提到了 $12,000。\n5 CLAIBORN 女士：我看到了。\n6 BALDIGA 先生：哦，您说他没有\n7 披露它。\n8 CLAIBORN 女士：他没有。这并不在\n9 附表 A-B 问题的答复中。\n10 BALDIGA 先生：就在那儿。\n11 CLAIBORN 女士：我们可以就\n12 它是否已被披露持不同意见，但我的立场\n13 是它没有被披露。我理解您可能\n14 持不同立场。\n15 由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n16 问 郭先生，您是否拥有一家名为\n17 Ace Decade Holdings Limited（艾斯十年控股有限公司）的公司的任何权益？\n18 答 是。\n19 问 您在 Ace Decade Holdings Limited 中的\n20 所有权权益性质是什么？\n21 答 所以我拥有该权益，并要求 UBS\n22 返还 $500 million。就是那种权益。\n23 问 您是否是 Ace Decade\n24 Holdings Limited 唯一的合法所有人？\n25 官方口译员：您是否是\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n134 录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 62 页，共 61 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）－2022年4月6日 61\n\n1 唯一的——您能重复该问题吗？\n2 由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n3 问 您是否是 Ace\n4 Decades 唯一的合法所有人？\n5 答 我是合法代表所有人。\n6 问 Ace Decade 是否有任何其他所有人？\n7 答 没有。\n8 问 您何时成为 Ace Decade\n9 Holdings Limited 的所有人？\n10 答 2014 年底。\n11 问 这是一个很长的问题。在您\n12 于伦敦针对 UBS 的诉讼中，您是\n13 一名个人原告。您作为个人原告提出\n14 请求的依据是什么？\n15 答 因为我是 Ace Decade 的百分之百代表。\n16 \n17 问 在伦敦针对 UBS 的诉讼中，\n18 有一项主张称 Ace Decade 向 Dawn State Limited（黎明州有限公司）给予了 $500\n19 million。Ace Decade 从哪里获得\n20 该 $500 million？\n21 答 我从我的家人那里借款。\n22 问 您是否从您的家人处借款并\n23 将其给予 Ace Decade？\n24 答 是。\n25 CLAIBORN 女士：我认为那不是——\n\n1 我们重新开始吧，因为我认为刚才那并不是——\n\n2 那是——\n\n3 私人译员：\n是的，我认为\n\n4 那是——\n\n5 CLAIBORN 女士（克莱伯恩女士）：\n——那是问题所在，\n\n6 因为那并不涉及 Dawn State（道恩州）——\n\n7 私人译员：\n是。\n\n8 CLAIBORN 女士：\n——所以我要重新\n\n9 开始。\n\n10 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n\n11 问 你从哪里得到交给 Ace Decade（艾斯十年）的那 500 million 资金？\n\n12 \n\n13 BALDIGA 先生（巴尔迪加先生）：\n我不认为他说过他做了\n\n14 那件事。我认为他说是他的家人做的，但你\n\n15 可以问这个，不过我——\n\n16 证人：\n来自我的家人。\n\n17 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n\n18 问 你的家人中具体是谁给了你\n\n19 钱，而后你又把钱给了 Ace Decade？\n\n20 答 John Way (ph)（约翰·韦，音）。\n\n21 问 John Way 是谁？\n\n22 答 我的一名家庭成员。\n\n23 问 他是你的亲属吗？\n\n24 答 他是我哥哥的表亲，或者——\n\n25 私人译员：\n女婿。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（2022年4月6日）\n\n1 官方译员：\n女婿？\n\n2 好的。抱歉。\n\n3 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n\n4 问 在你的 Schedule A-B 中，你列有一项可能针对 Boise Schiller（博伊斯·席勒）的\n\n5 律师执业过失索赔。你能\n\n6 解释一下那是什么吗？\n\n7 答 他是那个——他是那个\n\n8 在纽约代理我对 UBS（瑞银）提起诉讼的人。\n\n9 他未经我许可，向法院提交了许多强制性文件。\n\n10 他还威胁了我的\n\n11 家人。他还在饮酒后威胁我自己。他\n\n12 给我们造成了许多损失，包括在向——向\n\n13 律师或\n\n14 法官提交任何英中文译文之前，未向我提供该等文件。\n\n15 这就是我——这就是我们起诉他的原因。\n\n16 问 你是否聘请了律师在该律师执业过失诉讼中\n\n17 代理你？\n\n18 答 我儿子正在处理\n\n19 这件事。\n\n20 问 为什么你儿子在就你的\n\n21 律师执业过失索赔与律师交谈？\n\n22 答 因为我需要向他借钱。\n\n23 问 律师选定了吗？\n\n24 答 还没有。\n\n25 问 Kwok 先生，你是否拥有任何\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 除 Ace Decade 外的公司权益？\n\n2 答 没有，但——我拥有 Bravo Luck（布拉沃幸运）、\n\n3 那套公寓，仅几个月，拥有部分\n\n4 权益。由于该公寓是合作公寓，所以\n\n5 在我——在我们买下公寓后，他们使用我的名字购买了\n\n6 该公寓，然后我们将\n\n7 股权返还了。\n\n8 身份不明发言人：\n抱歉。他肯定\n\n9 说了 30、40 秒。显然说了更多\n\n10 内容。是否有更完整的翻译？\n\n11 官方译员：\n我是否遗漏了\n\n12 什么？\n\n13 CLAIBORN 女士：\n让我看看能否继续\n\n14 追问。\n\n15 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n\n16 问 Kwok 先生，你目前是否拥有\n\n17 Bravo Luck 的权益？\n\n18 答 没有。\n\n19 问 Kwok 先生，你是否拥有任何\n\n20 有限责任公司的权益？\n\n21 答 没有。\n\n22 问 Kwok 先生，你是否拥有任何\n\n23 合伙企业的权益？\n\n24 答 我过去拥有一家名为 Orange（橙色）或 Shiny Time（闪耀时光）的飞机公司，但那是在以前，而且\n\n25 \n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 现已不存在。\n\n2 问 Kwok 先生，你目前是否拥有任何合伙企业的\n\n3 权益？\n\n4 答 没有。\n\n5 问 Kwok 先生，你目前是否拥有任何合资企业的\n\n6 权益？\n\n7 答 没有。\n\n8 问 除 Ace Decade 外，你目前是否拥有\n\n9 任何其他公司的权益？\n\n10 答 没有。我以前只拥有 Orange 和 Shiny\n\n11 Time，但现在不拥有。\n\n12 问 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）是否对你的任何诉讼\n\n13 拥有担保权益？\n\n14 答 我欠他们钱。\n\n15 问 你是否已向 Golden Spring New\n\n16 York 授予对你的任何资产、你所拥有任何物品的\n\n17 任何权益？\n\n18 答 没有。\n\n19 问 那么，如果你赢得针对\n\n20 Golden Spring 的诉讼——抱歉，名字错了。那么，如果你\n\n21 赢得针对 UBS 的诉讼，你所赢得的任何款项\n\n22 是否须支付给 Golden Spring？\n\n23 答 是。\n\n24 问 金额会是多少？\n\n25 答 之前是 2,200 1 million，或者——\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交日期 05/20/22\n134 录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 67 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 66\n\n1 私人译员：21 million。\n\n2 证人：21 million。21 million，并且\n\n3 加上现在的。大概是 300 million。30\n\n4 million。或者 30 million。是。\n\n5 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n\n6 问 是否有文件规定你收到的任何\n\n7 诉讼胜诉款项须支付给\n\n8 Golden Spring？\n\n9 答 有。\n\n10 问 该文件的名称是什么？\n\n11 官方译员：\n我要请他\n\n12 重复一遍。\n\n13 我没有听清。我刚请他拆开来说，然后我没有听到什么——\n\n14 \n\n15 证人：\n我在 DC 有一个案件。有一家\n\n16 律师事务所就政治庇护代理我，\n\n17 其遭到中国共产党的网络攻击，\n\n18 因此他们——该律师事务所关闭了，并且他们把我的个人\n\n19 信息交给了共产党，然后我起诉\n\n20 他们。那笔诉讼费、律师费，来自\n\n21 Golden Spring New York。\n\n22 \n\n23 我要求 50,000——$50 million 的索赔。如果我赢得那笔钱，我会把钱\n\n24 返还给 Golden Springs，偿还他们为我提供的\n\n25 律师费资金支持。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 \n\n2 私人译员：\nKwok 先生没有说\n\n3 和解。Kwok 先生只是说，就一项索赔而言，而不是\n\n4 和解。\n\n5 官方译员：\n你正在要求\n\n6 $50 million。是。他为\n\n7 该诉讼要求 $50 million，如果他赢得——如果他赢得那笔钱，\n\n8 那么他将把钱返还给 Golden\n\n9 Spring New York。\n\n10 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n\n11 问 我的问题是，你依据何种文件向 Golden\n\n12 Spring 偿还你的诉讼费用，该\n\n13 文件的名称是什么？\n\n14 答 该文件是我——\n\n15 官方译员：\n你能重复\n\n16 一下吗？\n\n17 证人：\n该协议是——那是一份\n\n18 协议，我从 Golden Spring\n\n19 New York 借钱起诉那家律师事务所。\n\n20 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n\n21 问 该协议的名称是什么？\n\n22 答 我不记得。\n\n23 问 它是一份本票吗？\n\n24 答 我不记得。\n\n25 问 它是一份合同吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 我记不清楚。\n\n2 问 谁起草了该文件？\n\n3 答 律师。\n\n4 问 起草该文件的律师叫什么名字？\n\n5 \n\n6 答 Melissa（梅利莎）。\n\n7 问 Melissa 的姓氏是什么？\n\n8 答 我不知道。\n\n9 问 律师 Melissa 是否在起草该文件时\n\n10 代理你？\n\n11 答 是。\n\n12 问 在起草该文件时，谁代理 Golden Spring？\n\n13 \n\n14 答 我不知道。\n\n15 问 Golden Spring 是否有律师？\n\n16 答 有。\n\n17 问 你只是不记得是谁？\n\n18 答 他们有很多律师。\n\n19 问 你依据不止一份书面协议\n\n20 欠 Golden Spring New York 钱吗？\n\n21 答 是。\n\n22 问 有多少份协议？\n\n23 答 大约两三份，或者三四份。我\n\n24 记不清楚。\n\n25 问 是否有人记录你所借的款项\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 即你从 Golden Spring New York 借的钱？\n\n2 答 我的律师会把它记下来。我们会记录\n\n3 它。\n\n4 问 该律师叫什么名字？\n\n5 答 Aaron Mitchell（亚伦·米切尔）。\n\n6 问 你说的是 Aaron Mitchell 吗？\n\n7 答 哦，是。\n\n8 问 Aaron Mitchell 如何记录\n\n9 你从 Golden Spring New\n\n10 York 借取的款项？\n\n11 答 具体而言，我不知道。\n\n12 问 Golden\n\n13 Spring New York 的任何雇员是否记录你从 Golden Spring New York\n\n14 借取的款项？\n\n15 答 我不知道。\n\n16 问 你是否曾见过\n\n17 律师 Aaron Mitchell 出具的、显示你欠 Golden Spring New York\n\n18 多少款项的文件？\n\n19 答 这件事我——这是我与我的律师之间的事，我不应回答。\n\n20 \n\n21 BALDIGA 先生：\n我能否——我是说——\n\n22 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我认为这个问题\n\n23 不涉及——\n\n24 BALDIGA 先生：\n你可以——\n\n25 CLAIBORN 女士：\n——受保密特权保护的回答。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 BALDIGA 先生：\n那——给我一点时间。\n\n2 你可以对刚才的问题回答“是”或“否”，因此如果\n\n3 你再问一次，我认为他会回答“是”或“否”，\n\n4 然后我们可以一步一步来。\n\n5 CLAIBORN 女士讯问：\n\n6 问 你是否曾见过由\n\n7 律师 Mitchell 编制的、显示你从 Golden Spring\n\n8 借了多少钱的文件？\n\n9 BALDIGA 先生：\n等等。等等，我的指示\n\n10 需要被翻译。\n\n11 官方译员：\n什么？\n\n12 CLAIBORN 女士：\n你能否——\n\n13 BALDIGA 先生：\n你需要指示——\n\n14 CLAIBORN 女士：\n请直接说出来，\n\n15 他会重新翻译。\n\n16 BALDIGA 先生：\n请告诉证人\n\n17 什么——我正在告诉证人，他只能回答“是”\n\n18 或“否”。\n\n19 证人：\n是。\n\n20 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我还有其他问题，但是\n\n21 考虑到现在的时间，我认为我们可以\n\n22 短暂休庭，然后恢复进行，由债权人\n\n23 获得提问的机会。\n\n24 我建议我们在 1:15 恢复进行。\n\n25 BALDIGA 先生：\n可以吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交日期 05/20/22\n录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 CLAIBORN 女士：\n好的。谢谢。我们将\n\n2 在 1:15 恢复进行。\n\n3 （休庭。）\n\n4 CLAIBORN 女士：\n录音已\n\n5 恢复。短暂休庭后，我们重新开庭，\n\n6 Kwok 先生，你仍在宣誓状态。\n\n7 此时，Wolman 先生（沃尔曼先生）有一些\n\n8 问题要问你，Kwok 先生。\n\n9 WOLMAN 先生讯问：\n\n10 问 下午好，Kwok 先生。\n\n11 3月21日，我曾就此前一次证言录取向你\n\n12 提问，具体是关于你曾援引\n\n13 《美国宪法》第五修正案权利的\n\n14 次数。\n\n15 2021年4月1日，你当时是否因任何犯罪行为\n\n16 受到调查？\n\n17 官方译员：\n4月21日？\n\n18 WOLMAN 先生：\n2021年4月1日。\n\n19 官方译员：\n先生，你能重复\n\n20 那个问题吗？\n\n21 问 你当时是否因任何犯罪行为受到调查？\n\n22 答 来自 SET——美国 SET 以及\n\n23 调查 GTV（环球电视网）的机构，他们可以与我们的\n\n24 律师沟通。\n\n25 问 你指的是 Securities and\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n134 录入日期 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 73 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 72\n\n1 Exchange Commission（证券交易委员会）吗？\n\n2 答 是。\n\n3 问 他们具体在调查什么？\n\n4 BALDIGA 先生：\n反对。\n\n5 我需要询问这是否会披露\n\n6 受保密特权保护的信息。\n\n7 你对刚才问题的回答是否会是\n\n8 来自你律师的信息？\n\n9 私人译员：\n我能否——\n\n10 官方译员：\n她想要\n\n11 帮忙。\n\n12 私人译员：\n因为他不是——\n\n13 \n\n14 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我认为你应该再试一次。Baldiga 先生，也许你可以重复\n\n15 一下你所说的，Jack 先生（杰克先生），你可以再试一次。\n\n16 \n\n17 官方译员：\n你能重复\n\n18 你想说的话吗？\n\n19 BALDIGA 先生：\nWolman 先生问你\n\n20 你因何事受到调查。你所知的\n\n21 信息，是否是由你的\n\n22 律师向你提供的？\n\n23 证人：是。\n\n24 BALDIGA 先生：\n而回答该问题时，你是否必须披露律师告诉你的内容\n\n25 ？\n\n郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）- 2022年4月6日\n\n1 律师吗？\n2 官方口译员：必须是什么？\n3 披露？\n4 巴尔迪加先生（MR. BALDIGA）：\n您是否必须说出\n5 律师告诉您的内容？\n6 证人：\n是。\n7 巴尔迪加先生：\n那么我指示证人\n8 基于律师—当事人\n9 保密特权不予回答。\n10 沃尔曼先生（MR. WOLMAN）：\n那不是律师—当事人\n11 信息。\n12 巴尔迪加先生：\n等一下。让其\n13 被翻译。\n14 沃尔曼先生：\n从律师处获知的\n15 并非专门为提供建议或接收\n16 信息目的而进行的通信，\n17 不属于受保密特权保护的信息。如果您的\n18 律师说天空是蓝色的，那不是\n19 受保密特权保护的通信。\n20 巴尔迪加先生：\n他在和我争辩。\n21 没有向您提出的问题。\n22 沃尔曼先生：\n巴尔迪加先生，您是否会\n23 继续指示您的当事人不当地\n24 援引律师—当事人保密特权？\n25 巴尔迪加先生：\n我会就每一个问题作出指示。\n\n案件 22-50073 文书 404-8\n提交 05/20/22\n录入 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵 - 2022年4月6日\n\n1 按问题逐一处理。\n2 沃尔曼先生：\n对于这个问题，您是否会\n3 维持该指示？\n4 郭先生，您是否拒绝回答我的\n5 问题？\n6 证人：\n是。\n7 沃尔曼先生：\n您基于什么理由\n8 拒绝回答我的问题？\n9 巴尔迪加先生：\n基于律师的指示，\n10 理由是律师—当事人\n11 保密特权。\n12 证人：\n因为我不能回答这个\n13 问题，原因是律师与我之间的\n14 保密特权。\n15 由沃尔曼先生询问：\n16 问 您是否曾被美国证券交易委员会（Securities and Exchange Commission）正式指控？\n18 答 没有。\n19 问 证券交易委员会是否已结束对您的调查？\n21 巴尔迪加先生：\n我必须再次问一下，如果您知道，\n22 您可以回答是或否。\n23 答 没有。\n24 问 证券交易委员会是否已对GTV（GTV）提出任何指控？\n\n案件 22-50073 文书 404-8 提交 05/20/22\n录入 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵 - 2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 我不知道。\n2 问 在过去五年中，您是否曾接受美国国税局（U.S. Internal Revenue Service）的审计？\n5 答 没有。\n6 问 在过去五年中，您是否曾接受纽约州税务机关的审计？\n9 答 没有。\n10 问 您何时成为康涅狄格州居民？具体日期是什么？\n12 答 大约是2020年3月初。\n13 问 为明确起见，您是说您在2020年3月是康涅狄格州居民？\n15 答 是。\n16 问 那么，为什么在程先生（Mr. Cheng）、即我当事人、对您提起的诉讼中，您签署了一份宣誓陈述，表明您是雪莉荷兰酒店（Sherry Netherlands Hotel）的居民？\n20 官方口译员：律师，您能重复一下吗？\n22 问 如果您在2020年3月是康涅狄格州居民，您在程先生对您提起的诉讼中签署了一份宣誓陈述，称您居住在雪莉荷兰酒店。\n\n案件 22-50073 文书 404-8 提交 05/20/22\n录入 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵 - 2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 我并非100%住在康涅狄格州，但有时我也住在纽约。\n3 问 您从何时开始有超过50%的时间住在康涅狄格州？\n5 答 自2020年3月起。\n6 问 您声称有一些资产被中国没收了，对吗？\n8 答 那不是我的。那是我家人的。这是我家人的。\n10 问 您是否曾有任何资产被中国没收？\n11 答 您是说以我名义的？\n12 问 是。\n13 答 没有。\n14 问 好的。2010年，您的个人净资产是多少？\n16 答 没有。\n17 问 那不是一个是或否的问题。\n18 官方口译员：我可以再重复一次您的问题吗？\n20 沃尔曼先生：可以。\n21 问 2010年，您的个人净资产是多少？\n22 答 我没有任何财产。\n23 问 您是否曾以自己名义拥有超过\\$1 million的财产？这里包括您拥有某家公司权益，而该权益因而对您的财产有所贡献的情形，\n\n案件 22-50073 文书 404-8 提交 05/20/22\n录入 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵 - 2022年4月6日\n\n1 因此，对您的财产有所贡献？\n2 答 2000年以前，有。\n3 问 好的。您在1999年的净资产是多少？\n4 答 我从未作过详细计算。\n5 问 您估计是多少？\n6 答 大约1亿。\n7 问 而那价值\\$100 million的资产后来怎么样了？\n9 答 因为在2000年我获得了香港护照，而在中国，他们不允许我拥有任何财产、资产。\n12 问 您是否放弃了对您在1999年拥有的任何资产的一切权利主张？\n14 答 是。\n15 问 您为什么放弃您的权利主张？\n16 官方口译员：放弃什么？\n17 问 您对那些资产的权利主张？\n18 答 因为我不被允许在中国拥有任何资产。\n20 问 如果中国改变其政策，您是否有任何权利或能力取回那些资产？\n22 巴尔迪加先生：异议。如果您知道，您可以回答。\n24 答 我不知道。\n25 问 您在1999年最大的资产是什么？\n\n案件 22-50073 文书 404-8\n提交 05/20/22\n录入 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵 - 2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 有一家酒店的资产，即位于中国的一家酒店的股权。\n3 问 现在谁持有该权益？\n4 答 中国共产党（Chinese Community Party）。\n5 问 该权益是以该党的名义持有吗？\n6 答 中国只有一个独裁政府，即该党，我们家族的资产被他们拿走了——被他们没收了。\n9 问 您的儿子如何变得富有到足以资助高盛泉（Golden Spring）和蓝普资本（Lamp Capital）？\n11 答 因为他很早就开始投资，也把品牌带到了中国。\n13 问 他的投资资金从何而来？\n15 答 我不知道。\n16 问 克莱伯恩女士（Ms. Claiborn）曾问您有关与高盛泉达成的协议，而您无法指出谁是高盛泉的律师。您记得吗？\n20 答 是的。\n21 问 我想试着唤起——可能请您唤起您的记忆，是不是一位名叫丹尼尔（Daniel）的律师？\n24 官方口译员：他是在问丹尼尔？\n\n案件 22-50073 文书 404-8\n提交 05/20/22\n录入 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵 - 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 是，丹尼尔·佩多尔斯基（Daniel Pedolsky）。\n2 答 是，可能是，他曾是高盛泉的律师，也是我的个人律师。\n4 问 您是否与佩多尔斯基先生签署过利益冲突豁免？\n6 官方口译员：您能重复一下吗？\n8 问 您是否与律师丹尼尔·佩多尔斯基签署过利益冲突豁免？\n10 答 我不记得。\n11 问 您提到与高盛泉签订两三份——或者三四份协议。您能否识别每一份协议？\n14 答 我不确定。\n15 问 您能否说明每一份协议的目的？\n17 答 来自高盛泉的那笔贷款是为了与程隆（Logan Cheng）达成和解。\n19 问 您是否为了支付起诉程隆的律师费用而取得贷款？\n21 答 我不记得。\n22 问 除与程先生有关的协议外，其他协议是什么？\n24 答 来自华盛顿哥伦比亚特区——来自华盛顿哥伦比亚特区的律师事务所收取（听不清）。我不记得这个\n\n案件 22-50073 文书 404-8 提交 05/20/22 录入 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 81 页，共\n\n郭文贵 - 2022年4月6日 80\n1 名字。\n2 沃尔曼先生：好的。谢谢您，此时我必须离开了，但谢谢您。我会尝试拨入。\n5 克莱伯恩女士：谢谢。\n6 我能否请在线的任何人将自己静音，因为可以听到您打字的声音。\n9 好的。还有谁想提问？\n11 哈巴赫先生（Mr. Harbach）。请继续，哈巴赫先生。\n12 哈巴赫先生：谢谢。为记录在案，我是欧麦律师事务所（O'Melveny and Meyers）的戴维·哈巴赫（David Harbach），我代表PAACS（PAACS）。\n15 由哈巴赫先生询问：\n16 问 郭先生，我想根据克莱伯恩女士今天问您的问题，提出一些澄清性问题。\n19 今天早些时候，她问您是否拥有任何外币，您回答没有。她还问您是否拥有任何数字货币，您回答没有。\n23 我的问题是，您是否曾代表任何实体下令或指示购买外币或数字货币？\n\n案件 22-50073 文书 404-8\n提交 05/20/22\n录入 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\n郭文贵 - 2022年4月6日\n\n1 官方口译员：您能重复一下吗？\n3 哈巴赫先生：当然可以。\n4 问 我的问题是，您是否曾代表任何实体下令或指示购买任何外币或任何数字货币？\n7 答 您说的指示是什么意思？\n8 问 您是否曾指示任何人购买外币或数字货币？\n10 答 没有。\n11 问 克莱伯恩女士曾问您几个有关使用信用卡和借记卡的问题。我想确保我们清楚您的回答，因为她问您的不是您是否有任何信用卡，而是您是否能够使用信用卡。我想确保您理解两者之间的区别。\n18 官方口译员：他只是在问为什么您想代表霍利女士（Ms. Holley）所问的问题。\n21 哈巴赫先生：先生，我只是试图提醒您她今天早些时候问过您的一个问题。\n23 私人口译员：我不理解这个问题。\n25 巴尔迪加先生：巴尔迪加先生是对的。\n\n案件 22-50073 文书 404-8 提交 05/20/22\n134 录入 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 83 页，共\n\n郭文贵 - 2022年4月6日 82\n1 目前没有待回答的问题。\n2 问 问题是，您是否理解拥有一张信用卡和能够使用一张信用卡之间的区别？\n5 答 我相信我没有。\n6 问 您不理解这个区别？\n7 答 我不太了解。\n8 问 好的。那么让我给您举个例子。我们谈谈迈巴赫（Maybach）。\n10 我相信您今天向我们表示，您能够使用迈巴赫作为交通工具。对吗？\n13 答 是。\n14 问 但我相信您的立场也是，您并不拥有这辆迈巴赫。不是这样吗？\n16 答 是。\n17 问 换言之，您的立场是，这辆迈巴赫不是您的，对吗？\n19 答 是。\n20 问 好的。因此，我用该例子来说明拥有某物与能够使用某物之间的区别。这样对您有帮助吗？您理解这个区别吗？\n24 答 现在我理解您的意思了。\n25 问 好的。谢谢。那么回到有关\n\n案件 22-50073 文书 404-8 提交 05/20/22 录入 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 84 页，共\n\n郭文贵 - 2022年4月6日\n\n83 1 信用卡和借记卡的问题。您是否能够使用任何信用卡或借记卡，无论它们是否属于您？\n4 答 我不理解他所说的区别，能够使用是指我自己使用，还是让别人使用。\n7 问 那么，我们逐一谈。先从您自己使用开始。您的任何家庭成员是否曾向您提供一张信用卡或一个信用卡号码供您自己使用？\n11 答 我从未使用过。\n12 问 您提到的另一个例子，是可能由您的家庭成员代表您使用信用卡。是否发生过这种情况？\n16 答 您所说的代表我使用是什么意思？\n17 问 我问的是，据您所知，您的任何家庭成员是否曾使用信用卡或借记卡为您购买物品？\n20 答 我的儿子、我的女儿、我的妻子。他们都有信用卡为我买东西。\n22 私人口译员：证人不是那样说的，即使用信用卡为我买东西。证人说，我的儿子、我的妻子为我买东西。\n\n案件 22-50073 文书 404-8 提交 05/20/22\n134 录入 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 85 页，共\n\n郭文贵 - 2022年4月6日 84\n1 官方口译员：是的，他们使用自己的卡，他们两人——他们所有人都有。他们都有卡。这就是他说的。\n4 （重复口译）\n5 官方口译员：是的，我翻译对了。\n7 证人：所以我的妻子、我的儿子和我的女儿都有自己的卡，其他家庭成员也使用他们的卡为我买东西。\n10 问 那是否曾是根据您的指示？\n11 答 没有。\n12 问 从未有过？\n13 答 没有。\n14 问 那是应您的请求吗？\n15 答 没有。\n16 问 王艳萍（Yan Ping Wang）是否与伊薇特·王（Yvette Wang）是同一个人？\n17 答 是。\n18 问 早些时候克莱伯恩女士问您有关高盛泉香港（Golden Spring Hong Kong）的情况。\n20 您告诉她，您的儿子拥有它。您记得吗？\n22 答 是。\n23 问 我问您的是，您的儿子自何时起拥有高盛泉香港？\n25 答 我不知道。\n\n1 问\n除您的儿子外，是否还有其他任何人曾持有 Golden Spring Hong Kong（香港金泉）的权益？\n\n2 答\n我不记得。\n\n4 问\n您还说，您不记得自己是否曾担任 Golden Spring Hong Kong 的公司高管？\n\n7 官方口译员：\n您能重复一下吗？\n\n9 问\n您还说，您不记得自己是否曾担任 Golden Spring Hong Kong 的公司高管？这是否意味着您有可能曾担任过，只是您不确定？\n\n13 答\n我不记得。\n\n14 问\nClaiborn女士（克莱伯恩）以几种不同的方式问过您，您是否知道 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）如何获得资金或赚钱。Golden Spring 自何时开始支付您的个人生活费用？\n\n19 答\n2015年。\n\n20 问\n那么大约六、七年？\n\n21 答\n自2015年以来，有一个叫 Bruno Wu（吴征）的人来自中国大陆，给我的家人、我的儿子、女儿和妻子打电话，所以从那时起，我开始花来自 Golden Spring New York 的钱。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 私人口译员：\n我认为证人没有说“某些”。\n\n3 官方口译员：\n什么？\n\n4 私人口译员：\n我认为证人没有说“某些”。\n\n6 证人：\n不包括他们抓到的儿子；我的妻子、女儿和许多家庭成员，但不包括我的儿子。\n\n9 问\n所以，Golden Spring 支付您的个人费用大约已有六、七年。对吗？\n\n12 答\n是。\n\n13 问\n在那六、七年期间，您从未与任何家庭成员讨论过这些钱来自哪里吗？\n\n16 答\n因为我的许多家庭成员被——被您的委托人 Bruno Wu 逮捕了，所以我没有联系。我无法与他们沟通。\n\n20 私人口译员：\n不完全是。PAACS 的合伙人——该律师所代表的合伙人，PAACS——PAACS 的合伙人——\n\n23 官方口译员：\n我不知道。他没有提到任何关于 PAACS 的事情。\n\n25 证人：\n所以，是代表委托人 Bruno Wu 的另一位律师逮捕了您的许多家庭成员。您委托人过去的合伙人，其中一名合伙人，（听不清）Bruno Wu，逮捕了您的许多家庭成员，所以您无法与他们沟通。\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n6 问\n自2015年以来，您是否一直与您的女儿、妻子或儿子保持联系？\n\n9 答\n是。\n\n10 问\n在您与这三人中任何一人保持联系的任何时候，您是否曾问过他们 Golden Spring 的钱来自哪里？\n\n14 答\n是，我问过。\n\n15 问\n您问了谁？\n\n16 答\n我问了他们三个人。\n\n17 问\n他们怎么说？\n\n18 答\n他们告诉我，因为我处于被追捕的境地，所以不要问我们自己的财务信息。不要向我问任何事情，我们会帮助您——我们会尽我们所能帮助您。\n\n22 问\n那是什么时候？\n\n23 答\n2017年之后。\n\n24 问\n2017年之后多久？\n\n25 答\n我不记得。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问\n当您与家人进行这次谈话时，他们三人是在一起，还是分别谈话？\n\n4 答\n分别谈话。\n\n5 问\n他们三人中的每一个人都或多或少说了同样的话？\n\n7 答\n相似。\n\n8 问\n所以我想确认我理解正确。您问了他们每个人 Golden Spring 的钱来自哪里，而他们每个人都对您说，不要问我这个，因为——请您替我说完这句话。\n\n13 答\n所以您是在编造一个我不理解的故事。\n\n15 问\n我是在请您帮助我理解。我试图理解，为什么您的家人告诉您不要问，为什么您的家人告诉您不要问 Golden Spring 从哪里获得这些钱。\n\n20 BALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加）：\n让他问您一个问题。\n\n21 问\n请告诉我，为什么您的每位家人都告诉您不要问他们 Golden Spring 的钱来自哪里？\n\n24 BALDIGA先生：\n异议。如果您知道的话。\n\n25 官方口译员：\n您是在要求对该问题提出异议吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 BALDIGA先生：\n我提出了异议。\n\n3 官方口译员：\n哦，您提出了异议。\n\n5 BALDIGA先生：\n如果他知道，我允许他回答。\n\n7 官方口译员：\n好的。\n\n8 证人：\n我的女儿和妻子被他的合伙人逮捕，并于2017年获释，获释后到了纽约。她们遭到共产党极其严重的折磨。折磨她们的人是这位律师的合伙人。她们都有自己的律师。她们告诉我，不要询问或与她们沟通她们自己的财务和个人信息。您想做任何事情，最好通过律师。\n\n17 这是原则，是我的家人在她们来纽约之前告诉她们的事情。我只是想告诉您其含义，含义非常相似，但我不能逐字告诉您。\n\n21 所以我不希望这位律师编造任何关于我女儿——关于我女儿伪造、作伪证的故事。那种故事。\n\n25 上次我们与 Holley女士（霍利）在这里时，他在说虚假的谎言，说我使用我的 Twitter 账户，并说纽约的法官是共产党，而我甚至没有 Twitter 账户。\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n5 HARBACH先生（哈巴赫）：\n为明确记录，今天是我首次在法庭上就本诉讼说出任何一句话。因此，我认为您不是在说我，先生。\n\n9 证人：\n我说的是上次来自您办公室的律师。您之前那位律师叫 Andy Morse（安迪·莫尔斯）（按读音），他因五年来提出虚假主张而被法官赶出去了。因此，该律师事务所一直在提出虚假主张。\n\n15 BALDIGA先生：\n只回答他的问题，因为除非您只是试图回答他的问题，否则我无法知道是否应当提出异议。\n\n18 证人：\n我没有与我的家人、女儿和妻子分别谈话而说同样的话。如果我说同样的事、同样的话，那就是在编造虚假故事。\n\n22 HARBACH先生：\n我明白。\n\n23 证人：\n您不能运用您的想象力，把它塞进我的脑子里。这就是为什么纽约南区（Southern District of New York）和法官被他们（听不清），并且给了我错误的判刑。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n3 身份不明者：\n您能再说一遍最后那——\n\n4 证人：\n因为他们的虚假主张，所以纽约南区的法官，那位法官，给了我错误的判刑。\n\n8 私人口译员：\n而且，口译员此前没有完整翻译律师就其异议向证人作出的指示。\n\n12 CLAIBORN女士：\n如果您想重复，请继续。\n\n14 BALDIGA先生：\n我认为您只需听这些问题，并且只回答这些问题。\n\n17 HARBACH先生：\n抱歉。律师将转到另一个话题。\n\n19 HARBACH先生询问：\n\n20 问\nKwok先生，Claiborn女士今天问您，您欠 Golden Spring 一笔 $21 million 的债务。她问您，这 $21 million 中有多少是律师费，您的回答是，我认为其中大部分是。\n\n25 我想知道您所说的“大部分”是什么意思。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n134 录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 93 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 92\n\n1 您的意思是 $11 million，还是接近 $21 million？\n\n3 答\n我不记得。\n\n4 问\n您是否仍然认为其中大部分是律师费？\n\n6 答\n我不记得。\n\n7 问\n您还提到了 Logan Cheng（郑路根）和解，并称与此相关有从 Golden Spring 借来的钱。\n\n10 答\n是。\n\n11 问\n该笔贷款金额是多少？\n\n12 答\n我不记得确切数额。大概是 $200,000 到 $300,000。\n\n14 问\n该笔从 Golden Spring 取得的贷款的条款是什么？\n\n16 答\n我不记得。\n\n17 问\n当 Claiborn女士问您是否曾去过 Golden Spring 在纽约的办公室时，您回答说是。那些办公室的地址是什么？\n\n21 答\n是。\n\n22 问\n那些办公室的地址是什么？\n\n23 答\n64th Street, 162。\n\n24 问\n您还提到，您上一次去那里是在昨天，您去那里的原因是为今天的会面做准备。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 您在那里与谁会面？\n\n3 答\n我的律师。\n\n4 问\n您在办公室期间，除您的律师外，是否还与其他任何人为准备今天的会面而会面？\n\n7 答\n我不知道您所说的其他人是什么意思。\n\n9 问\n那么，您是否与任何为 Golden Spring 工作的人会面？\n\n11 答\n是，我见了 Yvonne Wang（王雁南）。\n\n12 问\n这是昨天？\n\n13 答\n是，我昨天见了她。\n\n14 问\n您昨天问了她一些问题吗？\n\n16 答\n没有。\n\n17 问\n请告诉我您与 Wang女士的谈话内容？\n\n19 答\n您是什么意思？\n\n20 问\n那么，我想知道您与她谈了什么。\n\n22 答\n我请她安排吃的食物和咖啡。\n\n24 问\n就这些吗？\n\n25 答\n还有，我们谈了如何废除共产党。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问\n我想确认我理解正确。我想您说的是——\n\n4 BALDIGA先生：\n不好意思。我能再听一遍最后那句话吗？\n\n6 证人：\n我们谈论如何废除共产党。\n\n8 BALDIGA先生：\n谢谢。\n\n9 问\nWang女士是 Golden Spring 的高管，对吗？\n\n11 答\n是。\n\n12 问\n您指示她拿咖啡来，对吗？\n\n14 答\n不，我没有指示她。我只是希望她拿些咖啡来。\n\n16 问\n您是希望，还是帮助？\n\n17 答\n帮助。\n\n18 问\n您是在帮助。因为我问您的问题是，您与 Wang女士谈了什么。我以为您说您请她拿些咖啡来，或者甚至告诉她拿些咖啡来。\n\n22 答\n不，您律师办公室——您律师办公室又在编造和想象事情。\n\n24 问\n我再问一次这个问题。\n\n25 BALDIGA先生：\n请问一个问题。不要——\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n134 第 96 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 95\n\n1 把话塞进他嘴里。\n\n2 问\n您昨天与 Wang女士讨论了什么？\n\n4 答\n您想让我详细说吗？我可以谈几个小时。\n\n6 问\n嗯，不，如果细节涉及如何推翻中国共产党。所以我会说得更准确一些。\n\n9 答\n所以您不希望我们废除中国共产党。我们的工作是废除中国共产党。\n\n12 BALDIGA先生：\n只回答问题。\n\n13 证人：\n您没有问题。您只是在指示某事。\n\n15 问\n我有时会分段说话，以便口译员翻译。\n\n17 BALDIGA先生：\n我认为，如果您只提问，然后证人——我会指示他回答您的问题。那样会有帮助。\n\n21 问\n您昨天是否与 Yvette [原文如此] 讨论过任何与准备今天会面有关的事情？\n\n24 答\n是。\n\n25 问\n您讨论了什么？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 答\n我请她把那些文件带到这里来。\n\n2 问\n还有别的吗？\n\n3 答\n我不记得。\n\n4 问\nLamp Capital（蓝普资本）是什么时候成立的？\n\n5 答\n我不知道。\n\n6 问\n为什么要成立 Lamp Capital？\n\n7 答\n我不知道。\n\n8 问\n谁成立了 Lamp Capital？\n\n9 答\n我的儿子。\n\n10 问\n您怎么知道？\n\n11 答\n因为我向我儿子借钱支付律师费。\n\n13 问\n问题是，您怎么知道是您儿子成立了 Lamp Capital？\n\n15 答\n因为我儿子这样说。\n\n16 问\n是他亲自告诉您的。\n\n17 答\n是。\n\n18 问\n他是否曾就是否成立 Lamp Capital 向您征求任何意见？\n\n20 答\n没有。\n\n21 问\n他是否曾问过您对于他是否应成立 Lamp Capital 的看法？\n\n23 答\n没有。\n\n24 问\n他是否告诉过您，他为什么要成立 Lamp Capital？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n第 98 页，共 134 页 录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 97\n1 答 不知道。\n2 问 当您谈到您针对 Boise Schiller（博伊斯·席勒）的律师过失索赔时，\n3 您提到过某个人，您一直用“他”来称呼此人。我想知道那个人是谁？\n6 答 我不知道您是什么意思。\n7 问 是的，那是个糟糕的问题。我道歉。\n8 您称，有人未经您的许可向法院提交虚假文件；\n10 此人威胁您的家人；此人在饮酒后威胁您；\n12 此人给您和您的家人造成许多损失，\n13 包括在向法官提交文件之前未提供翻译文件。\n16 我的问题是，那个人是谁？\n17 答 Schiller。Schiller 律师。\n18 问 那么是 Boise Schiller 律师事务所的 Schiller 先生。\n19 我说得对吗？\n20 答 是。\n21 问 谢谢。您是否了解 Lamp Capital（蓝普资本）从事何种业务，如有的话？\n23 答 不了解。\n24 问 换个话题。您今天在回答问题时多次称，\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22 录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 99 页，共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n1 您背后的人做了某些事情。\n\n2 您指的是谁？\n3 答 在我背后的一个人，有一个叫 Bruno Wu（吴征）的老板。\n4 他支付了那起案件——来自（听不清）的强奸案。\n5 还有一名债权人在这里，也由 Bruno Wu 支付。\n6 那笔律师费由 Bruno Wu 支付。\n7 Bruno Wu 也是他的合伙人，并且他投资了 \\$800 million。\n9 Bruno Wu 的合伙人也是（听不清）的前任\n10 官员，他们正在调查，并且\n11 他们与一名合伙人联合调查我的案件。\n12 因此，在 April 18, 2017，这个（听不清）\n13 开始起诉我，提起诉讼。在这 24\n14 小时内，Bruno Wu 给我发来红色通知，他们\n15 开始提起诉讼。\n16 HARBACH 先生：我能否打断——\n17 证人：中国共产党\n18 停止了对我的采访，即 VOA（美国之音）采访。\n19 它们在同一时间发生。\n20 HARBACH 先生：或者我可以让他说下去。\n21 证人：该律师事务所制作的所有文件\n22 都是虚假的。他们向 Southern District of New York（纽约南区）\n23 法院提交了一份虚假文件。\n24 他们甚至对我女儿的游艇提出虚假主张。\n25 那艘船是我的。他们向法官寻求\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22 录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 100 页，共 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 99\n1 纽约南区法院的法官，我两次申请\n2 破产——个人破产案件，而且该日——他们（听不清）两次，\n3 其中包括 Holley 女士。Holley 女士在场。\n5 第一次 Holley 女士在法院出席时，\n6 他们作了虚假证言，称——并且\n7 他们说我女儿就 Sherry 破产案作出了虚假证词，\n8 因为我女儿从未\n9 参与该案件。\n10 Holley 女士当时在场，\n11 第二次开庭日期 Holley 女士也在场。该律师事务所的律师对法官说，\n12 并且他们说我使用 Twitter 账户——\n13 他们说我在 Twitter 上称\n14 纽约南区法官是共产党\n15 成员。\n17 您可以看到，我背后的所有人，\n18 其中一人是 Bruno Wu，有一人支付了许多案件的费用——\n20 HARBACH 先生：我想问另一个\n21 问题。\n22 HARBACH 先生询问：\n23 问 您是否知道，无论以何种方式，\n24 您的破产代理律师 Brown Rudnick（布朗·拉德尼克）律师事务所，\n25 此前是否曾代理 Bruno Wu？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 官方口译员：我可以稍微休息一下吗？\n2 我实在无法那么集中注意力。\n3 实在太多了。我可以休息一下吗？\n4 CLAIBORN 女士：我能否请您先问完那个\n5 问题，然后我们再休息？\n6 官方口译员：可以。您能否\n7 重复那个问题？\n8 HARBACH 先生：当然可以。\n9 问 您是否知道，无论以何种方式，\n10 您的破产代理律师 Brown Rudnick\n11 律师事务所此前是否代理过 Bruno Wu？\n12 官方口译员：您说代理\n13 其他人？\n14 HARBACH 先生：是。Bruno Wu。\n15 答 不知道。\n16 CLAIBORN 女士：我要短暂\n17 休庭。我们将在 2:45 回到这里。\n18 （休庭）\n19 CLAIBORN 女士：好的。短暂休庭后，\n20 现继续记录。\n21 Harbach 先生，您可以开始。\n22 HARBACH 先生：谢谢。\n23 HARBACH 先生询问：\n24 问 Kwok 女士，在您面前的文件中，\n25 本案提交的第 78 号文件。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 官方口译员：哪份文件？\n2 这份吗？\n3 HARBACH 先生：是。抱歉。律师\n4 告知我，您的副本没有盖章。\n5 问 我说的是您第 106 号的正式文件。\n6 因此，我的问题从第 9 页开始，该页\n7 有一个标题写着附表 D，即声称由财产\n8 担保的债权人（听不清）。\n9 您跟得上吗？\n10 您勾选了“是”。并且被\n11 指向附表 D，所以请您翻到那里。\n12 它在第 18 页。\n13 BALDIGA 先生：标题是什么？他\n14 也许通过标题更容易找到。\n15 HARBACH 先生：好的。这是附表 D 的小图表，\n16 即一份列有\n17 有担保债权的债权人清单。\n18 HARBACH 先生询问：\n19 问 Kwok 先生，您会看到 Golden Spring New York Limited（纽约金泉有限公司）\n20 有五项单独的记录。\n21 所有五行中每一栏的数据\n22 都相同。\n23 所以我的问题是，为什么此附表上有五项\n24 相同的记录？\n25 问题是，为什么有五项\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 相同的记录在此附表上？\n2 答 我不知道五项是什么意思——\n3 问 嗯，每一行都完全相同。\n4 我只是问为什么有五行\n5 具有相同的信息？\n6 答 不知道。\n7 问 在您提交的那些文件中，\n8 有一些具体说明，其中一项说明涉及\n9 Taconic Road（塔科尼克路）的住所。\n10 HARBACH 先生：律师们，我指的是\n11 第 77 号文件，第 4 页。\n12 官方口译员：哪一页？\n13 HARBACH 先生：第 4 页。\n14 官方口译员：84？\n15 HARBACH 先生：不，第 4 页。\n16 官方口译员：哦，第 4 页。\n17 好的。\n18 HARBACH 先生询问：\n19 问 我的问题与其说是关于\n20 确切文本，不如说是关于实质内容。\n21 因此，第一个问题是，与 Taconic Road 房屋有关的所有费用\n22 是否均由家庭成员和家庭控制的企业\n23 直接支付？\n24 答 是。\n25 问 好的。哪些家庭成员？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 我的妻子，有时由我儿子支付。\n2 问 哪些由家庭控制的企业？\n3 答 哪个国家——我的妻子。\n4 问 您的妻子不是企业。我想问的是，\n5 哪些由家庭控制的企业支付\n6 Taconic 房屋的费用？\n7 答 Greenwich LLC（格林尼治有限责任公司）。\n8 问 好的。顺便问一下，您怎么知道\n9 您的妻子和有时您的儿子支付这些费用？\n10 答 因为我住在那里。\n11 问 您看到他们支付这些费用吗？\n12 答 是。\n13 问 这是否曾经是应您的要求？\n14 答 我不记得我要求过任何事情。\n15 问 Greenwich Land LLC（格林尼治地产有限责任公司）——是，Greenwich\n16 Land LLC 除 373\n17 Taconic Road 外，是否拥有任何其他房地产？\n18 答 不知道。\n19 问 您是否知道位于 Connecticut（康涅狄格州）Cos Cob（科斯科布）\n20 33 Ferncliff 的房产？\n21 官方口译员：您能重复\n22 一下吗？\n23 HARBACH 先生：可以。\n24 问 Connecticut Cos Cob 的 33 Ferncliff。\n25 官方口译员：31，对吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 HARBACH 先生：不，是 33。\n2 答 是，现在我想起来了。它也由\n3 我妻子的公司拥有。\n4 问 即 Greenwich Land？\n5 答 也许。\n6 问 您知道吗？\n7 答 我不确定。\n8 问 您去过 33 Ferncliff 吗？\n9 答 去过。\n10 问 最近一次是什么时候？\n11 答 不。\n不久前没有去过。\n12 问 您知道 Greenwich Land 何时购买\n13 33 Ferncliff 吗？\n14 答 不记得。\n15 问 您知道大约花了\n16 多少钱吗？\n17 答 大概超过 \\$1 million。\n18 问 \\$1.37 million 听起来大致正确吗？\n19 答 我不确定。\n20 问 大约在 September, 2019 的购买日期，\n21 对您来说听起来大致正确吗？\n22 答 不确定。\n23 问 暂时回到 373 Taconic。\n24 该房产的购买价是多少？\n25 答 大概 400 至 500,000。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 私人口译员：不，不，不。\n2 官方口译员：4 至 5 million。\n3 抱歉。\n4 问 373 Taconic 的大约购买时间，\n5 如果您知道？\n6 答 不知道。\n7 问 您是否曾居住在 33 Ferncliff？\n8 答 没有。\n9 问 您知道目前是否有人住在那里\n10 吗？\n11 答 以前有另一位同志，可能是，\n12 您知道，是脱离中国共产党的人，他\n13 曾住在那里。\n14 问 多久以前？\n15 答 大概一至两年前。\n16 问 您记得那个人的名字吗？\n17 答 记得。\n18 问 是什么？\n19 答 Wong Din Gong（音）。\n20 问 据您所知，目前是否有人住在那里？\n21 \n22 答 不知道。\n23 问 谈到 373 Taconic，购买该房产的\n24 钱来自哪里？\n25 答 不知道。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 您知道该房屋是用\n2 现金还是融资购买的吗？\n3 答 不知道。\n4 问 对 33 Ferncliff 也是同样的问题。您\n5 知道购买该房屋的钱来自\n6 哪里吗？\n7 答 我听说是以现金购买的。\n8 问 从谁那里——抱歉。您从谁那里听说\n9 的？\n10 答 不记得。\n11 问 您知道那笔钱来自哪里吗？\n12 答 不知道。\n13 问 您知道 Saraca Media Group（萨拉卡媒体集团）是什么吗？\n14 答 Saraca？\n15 问 Saraca。\n16 答 Saraca Media Group。我知道。\n17 问 Sirraca Media Group 是什么？\n18 答 就是 Saraca。它是一家公司。\n19 问 什么类型的公司？\n20 答 我不确定。\n21 问 您本人是否曾与\n22 Saraca 有任何关系？\n23 答 没有。\n24 问 您是否知道 Saraca 开展的\n25 业务类型？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n1 答 我记得他们与 GTV Media（GTV 媒体）\n2 平台有关，或者他们投资于 GTV Media\n3 平台。\n4 问 您怎么知道？\n5 答 因为我是他们的顾问，即拥有该顾问身份的人。而且我是 GTV 主持人。\n6 这也是脱离共产党者的输入渠道和平台之一。\n9 问 您刚才说您是顾问时，\n10 是为 Saraca 还是为 GTV？\n11 答 GTV。\n12 问 Saraca 是否曾经——是否曾与 162\n13 East 64th Street 地址有关联？\n14 官方口译员：哪个地址？\n15 您能重复一下吗？\n16 问 可以。162 East 64th Street。问题是\n17 Saraca 是否曾与该\n18 地址有关联？\n19 答 不知道。\n20 问 那是家族办公室地址，\n21 对吗？\n22 答 那是其中之一。\n23 问 其他地址在哪里？\n24 答 不知道。\n25 问 纽约市还有其他地址吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n答 我只想澄清一下。Golden Spring（黄金之泉）是这栋楼内的公司之一，162号。\n\n问 明白了，谢谢。我们在对您的询问过程中提到过家族办公室，我想澄清一下。当我们谈到家族办公室时，我们指的是东64街的那个地址吗？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 GTV是否曾与家族办公室地址有关联？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 谁拥有Saraca（萨拉卡）？\n\n答 我儿子。\n\n问 从什么时候开始？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 Saraca目前是否仍然存在？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 您是否知道——您是否知道Saraca资产价值的任何情况？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 您是否知道Saraca向GTV支付款项的任何情况？\n\n答 不，我不知道。\n\n问 您的妻子是否曾告诉您，Saraca向Greenwich Land（格林尼治地产）支付过任何数百万美元的款项？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 您不知道她是否曾告诉过您，还是您不知道这些付款的情况？\n\n答 她从未告诉过我，我甚至不知道金额是多少。\n\n问 您知道一家名为Ziba Limited（Ziba有限责任公司）、Z-I-B-A的公司吗？\n\n官方口译员：Ziba，Z-I-B-A？\n\nHARBACH先生：是。\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 如果我已经问过这个问题，很抱歉。Saraca与GTV之间，如有的话，是什么关系？\n\n答 Saraca是GTV的投资者。\n\n问 您知道Saraca向GTV投资了多少钱吗？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 GTV何时成立？\n\n答 2020年。也许是2019年。不太确定。\n\n问 您知道Saraca的任何高级管理人员或董事的姓名吗？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 您知道Yvette Wang（王伊维特）是否是Saraca的高级管理人员或董事吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 您认识一个叫Hong Chung Wang（王洪忠）的人吗？\n\n答 认识。\n\n问 他是谁？\n\n答 他是我的合伙人，也是反共产党的同志。\n\n问 他是您的朋友吗？\n\n答 朋友、同志和合伙人。\n\n问 您所说的合伙人是什么意思？\n\n答 因为我们曾有一家商业公司。\n\n问 请您谈谈那家公司。\n\n答 嗯，我不记得那家公司的名称。那是一家调查共产党在美国进行洗钱和实施犯罪行为的公司。\n\n问 那是一家营利性公司吗？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 您不知道？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 公司的名称是什么？\n\n答 我想不起英文名称。我不记得名称。\n\n问 您与Hong Chung Wang在该公司担任合伙人大约是在什么时期？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n答 我不记得。\n\n问 在过去三年内吗？\n\n答 肯定是三年以上以前。\n\n问 十年以上？\n\n答 不是。\n\n问 Hong Chung Wang是否曾与Saraca有任何关联？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 他是否曾是Saraca的高级管理人员或董事？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 GTV中的G代表什么？\n\n答 God。Goal，就像——G-O-A-L。\n\n问 英文单词“goal”？\n\n答 对。Goal或God。\n\n问 好的。您认识Hong Chong Wang多久了？\n\n答 我不记得。\n\n问 十年以上？\n\n答 大约。\n\n问 您今天仍认为他是朋友吗？\n\n答 是。\n\nHARBACH先生：请稍等。\n\n问 今天有许多问题涉及Golden Spring为您的生活费用提供资金。就您的生活费用而言，是否正确，即其中任何款项均不预期偿还？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n134 录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第113页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 112\n\n答 是，正确。\n\n问 因此，这些款项不受任何正式协议约束，对吗？\n\n答 不。\n\n问 那么，这些款项实质上是赠与您的，对吗？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 什么是Rule of Law Foundation（法治基金会）？\n\n答 那是什么意思？\n\n问 问题是，它是什么？\n\n官方口译员：法治基金会？\n\nHARBACH先生：是的，先生。\n\n官方口译员：我没有听清。您能换一种方式提问吗？\n\n问 有一个实体叫作——\n\n官方口译员：哦。\n\n问 ——法治基金会。\n\n官方口译员：好的。\n\nHARBACH先生：我希望通过改问这个问题来节省一些时间。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问 您熟悉法治基金会吗？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 您参与了其设立吗？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 它成立时，您是否向其捐过款？\n\n答 不是我本人。\n\n问 您是否指示任何实体向法治基金会捐款？\n\n答 建议与直接指示之间有区别——\n\n问 如果是建议，请告诉我那是建议。\n\n答 我没有指示或命令任何人。我只是一直建议人们向基金会捐款。\n\n私人口译员：作为口译员，我认为，如果证人向口译员提问，口译员应当翻译证人所问的问题，而不是回答该问题。\n\n官方口译员：我可以回答任何问题。\n\n私人口译员：证人说——\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n——您是在谈论（听不清）吗？\n\n官方口译员：这就是为什么我将问题转达给律师。\n\n私人口译员：您回答他“是”，然后您再说那个。\n\n官方口译员：哦，天哪。我没有说——我漏掉了什么吗？\n\n（口译。）\n\n官方口译员：好的。没有问题。他说没有问题未获回答。\n\nHARBACH先生询问：\n\n问 您是否曾建议您的任何家庭成员向法治基金会捐款？\n\n答 是，我确实建议过。\n\n问 您的任何家庭成员或家族控制的企业是否向法治基金会捐过款？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 多少钱？\n\n答 现金方面有一笔——超过$1 million。从香港、日本和中国大陆——合计应当超过30 million。\n\n问 暂且只聚焦于您的家人依照您的建议所作的捐款。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问 大约是多少钱？\n\n答 我不知道详情。出于安全原因，他们不想让我知道。\n\n问 您刚才是否说过，您的家人捐赠了超过一百万美元？\n\n答 有一百万现金在纽约这里。\n\n问 那是在什么时候？\n\n答 我不记得。\n\n问 原因是——嗯，让我这样问。您是否向您的家庭成员建议过他们应向法治基金会捐赠的金额？\n\n答 我希望他们捐得越多越好。\n\n问 这就是您告诉他们的吗？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 您是否知道法治基金会是否与64街的家族办公室地址有关联？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 您是否曾于2018年11月向法治基金会捐赠$100 million？\n\n官方口译员：您能再重复一遍吗？\n\n问 您是否曾于2018年11月向法治基金会捐赠$100 million？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8\n提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n答 没有。在直播中，像是我想——试图在直播节目中募集资金。\n\n问 您是否曾——\n\nBALDIGA先生：等等。那是他的完整回答吗？\n\n官方口译员：是的。有什么不对吗？\n\n私人口译员：并不完全是证人所说的。（听不清）播出没有问题。直播没有问题。但是“collect money”——\n\n官方口译员：请求捐款，对吗？\n\n（口译。）\n\n私人口译员：筹集——\n\n证人：筹钱，筹集捐款。是的，在直播节目或其他什么中，您知道，请求捐款来——您知道，筹集资金，筹钱。\n\n问 您是否曾承诺向Rule of Law Fund（法治基金）捐赠$1 billion？\n\n官方口译员：您说的是10 billion？\n\nHARBACH先生：不，先生。1 billion。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n官方口译员：哦，one billion。\n\n答 我不记得。我不记得。\n\n问 您的意思是，您有可能作出过该承诺？\n\n答 如果我们联合全世界的组织，我们可以实现该目标。\n\n问 明白。这是一个简单的问题。我只是不了解答案。您本人是否曾承诺向法治基金捐赠$1 billion？\n\n答 在过去五年中，我直播了超过5,000次。有些直播可能长达四五个小时。我很难记住我说过的每一句话。\n\n问 嗯，我理解，但我只是在问一个问题。即，您是否曾公开地、私下地，或以任何方式承诺向法治基金捐赠$1 billion？\n\n私人口译员：他说的不是投资。\n\nHARBACH先生：捐赠。\n\n官方口译员：对，捐赠。\n\n答 我不记得。\n\n问 我再问一次这个问题。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第119页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问 您是说，您有可能作出过这样的承诺。您只是不能确定？\n\n答 在Holley女士面前，我不会说任何事情都有可能，但这是一个非常严重的问题。现在他们又开始这个阴谋了。\n\n问 嗯，这不是问您三天前早餐吃了什么。这是问您是否承诺捐赠$1 billion；如果答案是您不知道，也没关系。\n\nBALDIGA先生：我认为这一直就是回答。\n\nHARBACH先生：不，回答一直是“我不记得”。\n\nBALDIGA先生：不记得。\n\nHARBACH先生：是的，先生。这有一点不同。\n\n问 所以答案可能是否定的，但您并没有说否定。您说的是您不记得。\n\n答 我已经说了三次，我不记得。\n\nBALDIGA先生：没有问题——\n\n答 因为在过去五年中，（听不清）一直替我作这类回答，所以纽约南区的法官被你们蒙骗了，而你们又开始了——\n\n问 我继续问下一个问题。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n134 录入于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第120页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 119\n\n答 在纽约南区法院，我只见过法官20秒。在这五年内，我一句话也没有说，而我被罚款总计约$300 million，因为这就是他们所做的。\n\nBALDIGA先生：好的。我们停止这样。等一个问题，然后我们回答问题。\n\nHARBACH先生：Bill，我感谢你的耐心。我继续问下一个问题。\n\nBALDIGA先生：请翻译我所说的话。\n\n官方口译员：您能重复一下吗？大家同时都在说话。\n\nBALDIGA先生：问一个问题，他会回答一个问题。\n\n问 在过去两年中，您是否向法治基金会作过任何捐赠？\n\n答 我本人，对吗？\n\n问 是的，先生。\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 在过去两年中，您是否曾建议您的任何家人向法治基金会捐款？\n\n答 我不记得。\n\n问 您是否曾作出承诺要\n\n如果您实际上并没有那笔钱，您是否会承诺向 Rule of Law Foundation（法治基金会）捐赠 $1 billion？\n\nBALDIGA 先生（巴尔迪加先生）：\n对问题形式提出异议。\n\n官方口译员：\n我没听明白。您能再重复一遍吗？\n\n问：如果您实际上并没有那笔钱，您是否会承诺向 Rule of Law Foundation（法治基金会）捐赠 $1 billion？\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n我已经提出异议了。\n\nHARBACH 先生（哈巴赫先生）：\n然后 Bill（比尔）提出了异议。\n\n官方口译员：\n他说的是，您是否——想判我死刑？\n\n问：“Lady May”号游艇价值大约多少？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：这些年来，您在“Lady May”号游艇上期间，大约邀请过朋友与您一同乘船多少次？\n\n官方口译员：\n您能再重复一遍那个问题吗？\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n可以。\n\n问：这些年来，您在“Lady May”号游艇上期间，大约邀请过朋友出来与您一同乘船多少次？\n\nBALDIGA 先生：等一下。\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8\n提交于 05/20/22\n登记于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（2022年4月6日）\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n抱歉，Bill。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\nDavid（大卫），您即将就“Lady May”号游艇事项接受证言录取。您可以选择今天或届时进行。两者均可。\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n这是个合理的意见。我会继续下一个问题。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n好的。没有问题。\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n如果我可以再次请律师注意文件 77。我想重点讨论问题 19。\n\n问：Kwok 先生，您读完该问题后告诉我。这是第 19 题。\n\n（暂停。）\n\n答：读完了。\n\n问：好的。为便于记录，该问题是：在您申请破产前十年内，您是否向您作为受益人的自行设立信托或类似安排转让过任何财产？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：而这确实是您在表格上勾选的内容。我的问题是，如果将“您”一词改为作为受益人的家庭成员，答案会是什么？\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n异议。\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n登记于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（2022年4月6日）\n\n答：我不能回答带有“如果”的问题。\n\n问：我会换一种方式提问。\n\nHARBACH 先生：\nJack（杰克），请您耐心一点。\n\n问：在您申请破产前十年内，您是否向您家庭成员作为受益人的自行设立信托或类似安排转让过任何财产？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：继续看同一份文件，往后看问题 27。您读完后告诉我，先生。\n\n（暂停。）\n\n答：好的。我读完了。\n\n问：那么您看到，您在“是”一词旁边的方框中打了勾。随后说明写道：勾选上述所有适用项，并在下方填写每项业务的详细情况。\n\nHARBACH 先生：\nJack，您看到那里了吗？\n\n官方口译员：\n我没有看到那个。\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n下一页——Holley（霍利）可以给您看。\n\n（暂停。）\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n所以我刚才只是向证人指出——为便于译员理解，我再说一遍。\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n登记于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n134 第 124 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（2022年4月6日） 123\n\n问：在被勾选为“是”的方框旁边，说明写道：勾选上述所有适用项，并在下方填写每项业务的详细情况。上述方框中没有任何一个被勾选，这就是我的问题。对于您所列出的那三个实体中的每一个，应当勾选哪个或哪些方框？\n\n答：我无法确定是哪一个。\n\n问：这是您需要更多时间才能弄清楚的事情，还是您只是不知道答案？\n\n答：我可以逐一回答。\n\n问：好的。那我们就这样做。先从 Genever（吉尼弗）开始。\n\n答：哪个 Genever？\n\n问：嗯，所列的是 Genever Holdings Corporation（吉尼弗控股公司）。如有的话，针对 Genever Holdings Corporation，您会勾选其中哪些方框？\n\n答：它曾经——曾是 LLC 的成员。上述项目不适用，应转到第 12 项——转到 12。它曾经是 LLC。\n\n问：您是说，您会勾选 LLC 成员的方框，但应当使用过去时吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n登记于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（2022年4月6日）\n\n答：是。曾经是。\n\n问：其他任何方框是否适用于您与 Genever Holdings Corporation 的关系？\n\n答：最后一行对我而言似乎合适。我不太确定。\n\n问：最后一行是指持有公司至少百分之五有表决权证券或股权证券的所有人？\n\n答：我曾在非常短的一段时间内拥有 50 percent。\n\n问：好的。Shiny Time（闪耀时光）呢？\n\n答：Shiny Time 已经不存在了。\n\n问：我明白。在它存在期间，其中哪些方框是准确的？\n\n答：第一项。\n\n问：独资经营者？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：其他任何项呢？\n\n答：不确定。\n\n问：好的。Well Origin Limited（维尔奥里金有限公司）呢？\n\n答：它不存在了。\n\n问：好的。不过还是同一个问题。在它存在期间，其中哪些方框适用？\n\n答：第一项。\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n登记于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n134 第 126 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（2022年4月6日） 125\n\n问：其他任何项呢？\n\n答：不确定。\n\n问：关于这个问题还有最后一点。对于 Genever Holdings Corporation，业务存在日期一栏是空白的。您知道应当填写哪些日期吗？\n\n答：2015。可能是 March、April 到 June、July。\n\n问：哪一年？\n\n答：2015。\n\n问：因此，大约从 March 或 April 至大约 July，均为 2015？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：好的。这是否是该公司的全部存续期间？\n\n答：我在该公司待了几个月，在这段期间，几个月，并持有——持有股票。我离开后，该公司仍然存在。\n\n问：我明白。它今天是否仍然存在？\n\n答：我相信它仍然存在。\n\n问：好的。您在哪一年结婚？\n\n答：1918——或者 1985。\n\n问：您的儿子出生于哪一年？\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n登记于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（2022年4月6日）\n\n答：1986。\n\n问：先生，您多大年龄？\n\n答：54。\n\n问：您的家族开始与 Uda Property Company（宇达地产公司）合作时，您的儿子多大？\n\n答：11。哦，五岁——五岁。\n\n问：那么，大约是在 1991，您的家族开始与 Uda 合作？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：Henan Uda Hotel（河南宇达酒店）何时建成？\n\n答：在 1997。\n\n问：Uda International Trade Center（宇达国际贸易中心）呢？何时建成？\n\n答：大致在同一时间。\n\n问：在您在本案中作出的声明中，您称这两项都是成功的项目。\n\n答：是。\n\n问：这使您的家族开始积累大量财富。\n\n答：是。\n\n问：那么，考虑到这是在 90 年代初，这些项目大约为您的家族带来了多少钱？\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n登记于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（2022年4月6日）\n\n问：超过 $50 million？\n\n官方口译员：\n50 还是 15？\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n5-0。\n\n官方口译员：\n哦，好的。\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n问：Pangu Plaza（盘古广场）呢？它何时建成？\n\n答：July 2008。\n\n问：那么，在 90 年代初至 2008 期间，Guo family（郭氏家族）还投资或参与了哪些重要项目？\n\n官方口译员：\n从 1990 年代到——\n\n答：在 90 年代初至 2008 期间。\n\n问：您记得其中任何一个吗？任何重要项目？\n\n答：Beijing Golden Spring（北京金泉）。\n\n问：那是什么？\n\n答：它是一家地产公司。房地产。它是一家房地产公司。\n\n问：这是一家开发公司，还是——类似买卖代理机构？\n\n答：开发公司。\n\n问：Pangu Plaza 项目大约于何时启动？\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n登记于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（2022年4月6日）\n\n答：大约在 1999。\n\n问：好的。那么我们以此作为一个时间点。\n\n问：在 Pangu Plaza 项目开始时，该家族大约积累了多少财富？\n\n私人口译员：\n请再问一遍那个问题？\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n当然。\n\n问：截至 1999，即 Pangu Plaza 项目开始之时，该家族到那时为止大约赚得或积累了多少财富？\n\n官方口译员：\n您说的是 1999 之后？\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n不，我说的是截至 1999？\n\n官方口译员：\n哦，截至 1999。\n\n问：到 1999，该家族赚了多少钱？\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n问：超过 $100 million？\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n问：超过 $500 million？\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n问：超过 a billion dollars？\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n登记于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（2022年4月6日）\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n问：您个人是否参与了与 Uda Property Company 的合作？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：您个人是否参与了 Henan Uda Hotel 的开发？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：您个人是否参与了位于 Zhengzhou（郑州）的 Uda International Trade Center？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：您个人是否参与了 Pengu Plaza（彭古广场）的开发？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：谁负责 Beijing Golden Spring Real Estate Development firm（北京金泉房地产开发公司）？\n\n答：一个专业团队。\n\n问：您是该团队成员吗？\n\n答：当时我是顾问。\n\n问：为 Beijing Golden Spring 担任顾问？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：您大约在什么时间段担任他们的顾问？\n\n答：2000 之后。\n\n问：2000 之后。好的。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士（克莱伯恩女士）：\nHarbach 先生，我只是想——\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n登记于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（2022年4月6日）\n\n指出，现在是 4:18，我知道今天已经很长——而且我想给——首先，我为打断您道歉。\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n没关系。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n但我想在我们结束之前，给委员会律师今天提几个问题的机会。\n\nHARBACH 先生：\n当然。可以。\n\nSTAFSTROM 先生（斯塔夫斯特罗姆先生）：\n我会非常简短。\n\n由 STAFSTROM 先生进行询问：\n\n问：我注意到您的头发很短。我喜欢。您最近理发了吗？\n\n答：是。我理发了。\n\n问：您在哪里剪的？\n\n答：我妻子剪的。\n\n问：哦，您的妻子。好的。她一直都给您剪头发吗？\n\n答：从病毒之后到现在。\n\n问：好的。好吧。那么我没有其他问题了。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n我们在确定一个新的日期期间，将录音暂停。\n\n（记录外。）\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n我们恢复记录。\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22\n134 登记于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 132 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（2022年4月6日） 131\n\n短暂休息后。我们已确定延期日期为 April 29th，自 10:00 a.m. 开始。今天的程序结束。谢谢。\n\n（会议休会。）\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（2022年4月6日） 132\n\n本人，CHRISTINE FIORE（克里斯蒂娜·菲奥雷），经法院核准的转录员及认证电子记录员和转录员，特此证明，上述内容是对上述案由程序官方电子录音的正确笔录。\n\nApril 15, 2022\n\nChristine Fiore（克里斯蒂娜·菲奥雷）, CERT\n\n转录员\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8 提交于 05/20/22 登记于 05/20/22 11:52:18 第 133 页，共 134 页\n\n案号 22-50073 文档 404-8\n提交于 05/20/22\n登记于 05/20/22 11:52:18\n134 第 134 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022（2022年4月6日） 133\n\n目录\n\n页码\n\n由 Claiborn 女士进行询问 6\n\n由 Wolman 先生（沃尔曼先生）进行询问 71\n\n由 Harbach 先生进行询问 80\n\n由 Stafstrom 先生进行询问 130","key_entities":["Kwok","Ho Wan Kwok","Je","Saraca","GTV","Yanping Wang","Chinese Communist Party","CIPA","Guo","Wang Yanping"],"ecf_references":[{"doc_number":77,"court":"CTB"},{"doc_number":78,"court":"CTB"}],"word_count":38599,"status":"published","published_at":"2022-05-20 00:00:00","created_at":"2022-05-20","updated_at":"2026-08-23 23:07:15"}