{"id":"court_ctb_913_5","court":"CTB","case_no":"22-50073","doc_number":913,"sub_number":5,"doc_type":"EXHIBIT","filed_date":"2022-10-04","title":"Exhibit E Transcript of Section 341 Meeting","summary_zh":null,"summary_en":null,"body_en":"# **Exhibit E**\n\n**Transcript of Section 341 Meeting**\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 2 of 134\n\nUNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT In Re \\* Chapter 11 \\* \\* HO WAN KWOK, \\* Case 22-50073(JAM) \\* Debtor. \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* \\* TRANSCRIPT OF CONTINUED 341 MEETING OF CREDITORS APRIL 6, 2022 Electronically Recorded by the Office of the United States Trustee Transcript Prepared By: Christine Fiore, CERT Fiore Reporting and Transcription Service, Inc. 4 Research Drive, Suite 402 Shelton, CT 06484 (203)929-9992\n\n134\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| APPEARANCES: | |\n|------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| For the Debtor: | WILLIAM R. BALDIGA, ESQ.
BEN SILVERBERG, ESQ.
Brown Rudnick, LLP
Seven Times Square
New York, NY
10036 |\n| For the U.S. Trustee: | HOLLEY E. CLAIBORN, ESQ.
STEVEN MACKEY, ESQ.
Office of the U.S. Trustee
150 State Street
New Haven, CT
06510 |\n| For Logan Cheng,
Creditor: | JAY MARSHALL WOLMAN, ESQ.
Randazza Legal Group
100 Pearl Street, 14th Floor
Hartford, CT 06103 |\n| For Pacific Alliance
Asia Opportunity Fund,
LP, Creditors: | DAVID V. HARBACH, II, ESQ.
O'Melveny & Myers, LLP
1625 I Street NW
Washington, DC
20006 |\n| | STUART SARNOFF, ESQ.
MAKENZIE RUSSO
O'Melveny & Myers, LLP
Times Square Tower
7 Times Square
New York, NY
10036 |\n| | ANNECCA SMITH, ESQ.
Robinson and Cole
280 Trumbull Street
Hartford, CT
06103 |\n| For Bruno Wu, Weican
Meng and Rui Ma,
Creditors: | KRISTEN MAYHEW, ESQ.
McElroy, Deutsch, Mulvaney &
Carpenter
One State Street
Hartford, CT
06103 |\n| For the Official
Committee of Unsecured
Creditors: | STEVEN STAFSTROM, ESQ.
Pullman & Comley
850 Main Street
Bridgeport, CT
06601 |\n\n2\n\n#### Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 4 of\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Good morning.
Today is |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | Wednesday, April 6th, 2022.
We are gathered for the |\n| 3 | continued meeting of creditors in the Chapter 11 |\n| 4 | case of Ho Wan Kwok, case no. 22-50073. |\n| 5 | My name is Holley Claiborn. I'm a trial |\n| 6 | attorney in the Office of the United States Trustee |\n| 7 | and I will be conducting today's meeting.
Today's |\n| 8 | meeting is being recorded on a digital recorder and |\n| 9 | is also available for parties to participate on the |\n| 10 | phone.
And there are parties, including the debtor |\n| 11 | and counsel and other professionals, gathered here |\n| 12 | in person. |\n| 13 | Today's meeting is being interpreted, as |\n| 14 | you can hear and our interpreter today is Jeff and |\n| 15 | I'm going to ask Jeff to respond to this oath. |\n| 16 | (The interpreter is sworn.) |\n| 17 | THE COURT:
On behalf of Mr. Kwok we have |\n| 18 | William Baldiga and Ben Silverberg. |\n| 19 | Also on behalf of the debtor we have |\n| 20 | financial professionals Craig Gelbert and Matthew |\n| 21 | Flynn. |\n| 22 | Present here today on behalf of the |\n| 23 | Committee of Unsecured Creditors is Steven Stafstrom |\n| 24 | from Pullman and Comley. |\n| | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 5 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|-----------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|-----------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
4 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Mr. Stafstrom is the lawyer for the |\n| 2 | Official Committee of Unsecured Creditors. |\n| 3 | Also present today on behalf of PAACS |\n| 4 | Stuart Sarnoff, David Harbach and MacKenzie Russo. |\n| 5 | They represent PAACS. |\n| 6 | On behalf of certain creditors, including |\n| 7 | Rui Ma, we have Kristen Mayhew. |\n| 8 | On behalf of creditor, Logan Cheng, we |\n| 9 | have Jay Wolman. |\n| 10 | Also on behalf of PAACS we have Annecca |\n| 11 | Smith, from Robinson and Cole. |\n| 12 | And then also for the debtor today we have |\n| 13 | Josh Klein and Aaron Mitchell. |\n| 14 | Today's meeting will feature me asking |\n| 15 | questions first, followed by the opportunity for |\n| 16 | creditors to come up and ask questions. |\n| 17 | Is anyone on the telephone conference |\n| 18 | line? |\n| 19 | MR. MACKEY:
Steven Mackey from the U.S. |\n| 20 | Trustee's Office is on the conference line. |\n| 21 | Thank you, Mr. Mackey.
Anyone else |\n| 22 | besides Mr. Mackey. |\n| 23 | Hearing none, I'm going to proceed to |\n| 24 | swearing in Mr. Kwok. |\n| 25 | (The debtor is sworn.) |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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5 | |\n| 1 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Kwok, as you know, | |\n| 2 | today's meeting is being recorded and Mr. Jeff here | |\n| 3 | is our official interpreter for today. | |\n| 4 | Jeff will be interpreting the questions | |\n| 5 | that I ask and your answers, and I ask that you wait | |\n| 6 | until Jeff has made a full translation before you | |\n| 7 | answer my questions. | |\n| 8 | EXAMINATION BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 9 | Q
Mr. Kwok, we're going to pick up today in | |\n| 10 | an area that we left off in general from the last | |\n| 11 | meeting of creditors that was held back on March | |\n| 12 | 21st, 2022. | |\n| 13 | Has anything changed in your employment | |\n| 14 | status since March 21st, 2022? | |\n| 15 | A
No. | |\n| 16 | Q
Has anything changed with respect to your | |\n| 17 | residence? | |\n| 18 | A
No. | |\n| 19 | Q
During the meeting held on March 21st, | |\n| 20 | 2022 I asked you about the accuracy of your | |\n| 21 | bankruptcy schedules and your bankruptcy statement | |\n| 22 | of financial affairs. | |\n| 23 | A
No change. | |\n\nQ Thank you.\n\nMS. CLAIBORN: Jeff, for purposes of my\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 7 of\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
6 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | questions I'm going to be following the documents |\n| 2 | that are in front of you. When I say schedules, it's |\n| 3 | this document.
And then this document is the |\n| 4 | statement of financial affairs.
Okay?
And when I |\n| 5 | refer to an ECF number, it's at the top of the page. |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
ECF number. |\n| 7 | Okay. |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay?
That should allow |\n| 9 | you to follow along and start on this page. |\n| 10 | EXAMINATION BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
Okay.
Mr. Kwok, I'm going to ask you to |\n| 12 | make sure you have in front of you, which you appear |\n| 13 | to do, Schedules A-B through J. |\n| 14 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
He has Mandarin |\n| 15 | translations in front of him. |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
I see that Mr. Baldiga, who is seated next |\n| 18 | to you, has English versions.
But in front of you, |\n| 19 | Mr. Kwok, appear to be translations.
Is that |\n| 20 | accurate? |\n| 21 | A
Just on Schedule A-B. |\n| 22 | Q
Okay.
So, Mr. Kwok, when you're answering |\n| 23 | my questions today, you're going to be taking a look |\n| 24 | at your own translated versions of the bankruptcy |\n| 25 | schedules. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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7 |\n| 1 | A
Okay. |\n| 2 | Q
Okay. |\n| 3 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Just a minute, |\n| 4 | Your Honor. |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Yes. |\n| 6 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I'm having a |\n| 7 | little difficulty hearing the interpreter when he |\n| 8 | interprets the witness's answers. |\n| 9 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
So, Jack, if you |\n| 10 | could speak up.
I'm going to move the microphone. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, okay. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
See if that works. |\n| 13 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 14 | Q
Okay.
Mr. Kwok, starting at Question No. |\n| 15 | 1 on Schedule A-B.
With respect to Schedule A-B at |\n| 16 | Question No. 1, that asks if you own any legal or |\n| 17 | equitable interest in any real estate residence or |\n| 18 | building or similar property.
Your answer to that |\n| 19 | Question No. 1 was no, Mr. Kwok.
Is that an |\n| 20 | accurate answer? |\n| 21 | A
Yes. |\n| 22 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you owned any real estate |\n| 23 | between the year 2018 and your bankruptcy filing in |\n| 24 | February of 2022? |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 9 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|-----------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|-----------|\n\n| 8 | | |\n|---|--|--|\n| | | |\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
8 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | that one? |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 3 | Q
Have you owned any real estate between the |\n| 4 | year 2018 and your bankruptcy filing in February |\n| 5 | 2022? |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 7 | that one?
He said he didn't hear that. |\n| 8 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 9 | Q
Mr. Kwok -- |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
I'm sorry.
I couldn't hear. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said that he |\n| 12 | didn't understand the translation.
I just want to |\n| 13 | make sure I understand first. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'll repeat the question. |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yes. |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you owned any real estate |\n| 18 | between 2018 and February of 2022? |\n| 19 | A
No. |\n| 20 | Q
Mr. Kwok, as of the bankruptcy filing in |\n| 21 | February 2022, did you have any equitable interest |\n| 22 | in any real estate anywhere in the world? |\n| 23 | A
No. |\n| 24 | Q
Mr. Kwok, as of the bankruptcy filing in |\n| 25 | February 2022, did you have any legal interest in |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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9 |\n| 1 | any real estate anywhere in the world? |\n| 2 | A
No. |\n| 3 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you ever owned any real |\n| 4 | estate in Hong Kong? |\n| 5 | A
No. |\n| 6 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
What was the |\n| 7 | answer? |\n| 8 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
No. |\n| 9 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 10 | Q
Mr. Kwok, have you ever owned the property |\n| 11 | located at 16A South Bay Road, Hong Kong? |\n| 12 | A
No. |\n| 13 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you currently own an |\n| 14 | apartment at the Sherry Netherland in New York City? |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 16 | it.
Can I ask him repeat the -- repeat the answer? |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
You have to say -- whatever |\n| 18 | you're going to say, you have to -- you're talking |\n| 19 | to everybody, not just Holley, so I need to hear |\n| 20 | what you're saying. |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
I just - |\n| 22 | - I just want to ask him to repeat -- repeat the |\n| 23 | answer. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay? |\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 11 of\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
10 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE WITNESS:
I don't own that real estate |\n| 2 | in New York, the Sharon -- the Sharons -- at that |\n| 3 | address I don't remember, and I own -- I own 50 |\n| 4 | percent the stock -- the stock and -- |\n| 5 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No. |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
No? |\n| 7 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No. |\n| 8 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 9 | THE WITNESS:
For the family. |\n| 10 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can I ask you not to |\n| 11 | interrupt?
Can you just wait until the end and then |\n| 12 | -- |\n| 13 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- you can express whatever |\n| 15 | it is you want to say? |\n| 16 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can you please just |\n| 18 | translate Mr. Kwok's answer again? |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
I just |\n| 20 | want to repeat, make sure -- and I said it right, |\n| 21 | you know, what he said. |\n| 22 | THE WITNESS:
So, yeah, he -- he said, I |\n| 23 | owe -- I own 50 percent of the -- 50 percent, but I |\n| 24 | don't own the whole real estate, but I just |\n| 25 | represent the family. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
11 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 2 | Q | Mr. Kwok, what do you own 50 percent of? |\n| 3 | A | Bravo Luck, 50 percent of the stock powder |\n| 4 | -- power. | I don't know.
I don't understand. |\n| 5 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
(Indiscernible.) |\n| 6 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He owned -- he |\n| 7 | | said he owns the 50 percent of it. |\n| 8 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
-- we can hear |\n| 9 | you fine, Holley. | |\n| 10 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
I'm going to ask -- |\n| 11 | I'm going to -- | |\n| 12 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't know if |\n| 13 | | the microphone is connected to anything. |\n| 14 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
It is.
It is.
Jeff, if |\n| 15 | you can speak up? | |\n| 16 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Mr. Kwok said |\n| 17 | | he owe -- he owns 50 percent of -- of the stock.
Is |\n| 18 | | it like the stock of the real estate or something? |\n| 19 | I don't know. | I don't get it.
But you can help if |\n| 20 | | she wants to help.
Do you want him to help a little |\n| 21 | bit? | |\n| 22 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'd rather not. |\n| 23 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 24 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
So, I'll just -- I'll ask |\n| 25 | | follow-up questions. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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12 |\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
All right.
But I need to |\n| 3 | hear if it's a misinterpretation, so -- |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to ask a |\n| 5 | clarifying question, if I could. |\n| 6 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 7 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own 50 percent of a |\n| 8 | company called Bravo Luck? |\n| 9 | A
I represent my family to hold 50 percent |\n| 10 | of the stock. |\n| 11 | Q
Mr. Kwok, when you use the term -- |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
Could I hear that back? |\n| 13 | Could you repeat that? |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
I |\n| 15 | represent my family to hold 50 percent of the stock |\n| 16 | of the -- of the company. |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. |\n| 18 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, when you say family, what do you |\n| 20 | mean? |\n| 21 | A
My family is a big family and that |\n| 22 | includes a lot of people.
My kids and my sister-in |\n| 23 | laws, and all people together.
A lot of people. |\n| 24 | Q
Mr. Kwok, who owns an interest -- |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me.
We do have an |\n\n### Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 14 of\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 interpretation question. THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: I just want to ask that, is there supposed to be summary of the (indiscernible) the interpretation? MS. CLAIBORN: To the best of Mr. Jeff's ability, it should be verbatim. THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: Right. So if Mr. Kwok said, my son, my daughter, my brother, my sister-in-law, my nephew, my niece, many people, then if the interpreter say, well, a lot of my families and my brother, many people, then should it be correct or not? MS. CLAIBORN: I would prefer that Mr. Jeff translate as literally as possible. So with that instruction, can we -- THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Yeah. MS. CLAIBORN: -- do a specific job as best we can going forward? Thank you. MR. BALDIGA: Thank you. BY MS. CLAIBORN: Q So, Mr. Kwok, who owns the company called Bravo Luck? A My son. Q And what is your son's name? A Cheng Wu.\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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14 |\n| 1 | Q
How long has your son owned Bravo Luck? |\n| 2 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 3 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Say again, |\n| 4 | please. |\n| 5 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't |\n| 6 | remember. |\n| 7 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 8 | Q
So, Mr. Kwok, what do you own 50 percent |\n| 9 | of when you explained your ownership interest in the |\n| 10 | Southern Sherry Netherland? |\n| 11 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You may |\n| 12 | interpret. |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 14 | that one again, Holley? |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 16 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you testified that you owned 50 |\n| 17 | percent of some company, and that was in response to |\n| 18 | my question if you owned the Sherry Netherland |\n| 19 | apartment.
Can you please explain what you meant? |\n| 20 | A
Sherry is a co-op.
It doesn't have the -- |\n| 21 | it doesn't have the -- it doesn't have the |\n| 22 | ownership. |\n| 23 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
May I, Ms. |\n| 24 | Holley? |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Yes, of course. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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15 |\n| 1 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
You've got to |\n| 2 | speak louder. |\n| 3 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
I'm going to put |\n| 4 | ourselves on pause for a second here. |\n| 5 | (Off the record) |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
We're back on |\n| 7 | the record after a short break, and, Mr. Kwok, you |\n| 8 | remain under oath. |\n| 9 | Jeff, could you please retranslate? |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
The last question.
You |\n| 12 | want me to ask it again? |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
Would |\n| 14 | you ask it again? |\n| 15 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
I'll try it |\n| 16 | again. |\n| 17 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 18 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you testified today that you own |\n| 19 | 50 percent of an interest in some company, and that |\n| 20 | was the answer you gave me in response to my |\n| 21 | question if you own an apartment at the Sherry |\n| 22 | Netherland.
Can you please explain your answer? |\n| 23 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection. |\n| 24 | THE WITNESS:
I don't know how to explain |\n| 25 | it.
He said the Sherry Netherland is a co-op.
I |\n\n### Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 17 of\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | don't have a deed on that property and I just |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | represent my family to own 50 percent of the right. |\n| 3 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me.
Go ahead. |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Because that -- |\n| 5 | Mr. Kwok did mention the company name Bravo Luck, so |\n| 6 | Mr. Interpreter did not say the word Bravo Luck, the |\n| 7 | company that holds the interest of Sherry |\n| 8 | Netherland, and Mr. Kwok represents the family owns |\n| 9 | 50 percent of Bravo Luck, which is the holding |\n| 10 | company of owning the Sherry Netherland. The Sherry |\n| 11 | Netherland is a co-op. |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
So I'm going to make a |\n| 13 | continuing objection to the extent that the |\n| 14 | interpreter is not providing the exact words used by |\n| 15 | the witness.
I'm not ascribing any faults or |\n| 16 | anything, but obviously that's critical to the |\n| 17 | quality of the testimony and that's necessary. |\n| 18 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We need -- |\n| 19 | MR. BALDIGA:
We have to use the words |\n| 20 | used by the witness. |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm sure that Jeff is going |\n| 22 | to do his best job today to try to translate |\n| 23 | everything literally. |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
But please understand that |\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 18 of\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 |\n| 1 | there is a familiarity with terms in this room that |\n| 2 | Mr. Jeff does not have.
So to the extent that |\n| 3 | people are answering questions with shorthand |\n| 4 | versions of company names or just one words, the |\n| 5 | answer should be as specific as possible -- |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, I -- |\n| 7 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- if you could translate |\n| 8 | that. |\n| 9 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- my best but |\n| 10 | probably that interpreter honestly, Holley, the |\n| 11 | interpreter probably know the case more, the |\n| 12 | details. |\n| 13 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I agree.
Can you just -- |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
But if he -- |\n| 15 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- can you translate what I |\n| 16 | just said to Mr. Kwok, because I want to make sure |\n| 17 | -- |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh. |\n\n MS. CLAIBORN: -- he answers questions in a way that are easily translatable.\n\n THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: I just tell him and the answer let -- you know short and clear, but I pretty much understand what he says and -- MS. CLAIBORN: And can you please translate Mr. Kwok's answers or comments to your\n\n### Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 19 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | comments? | | | | | |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|--|--|\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said he will | | | | | |\n| 3 | try to make it a shorter and clear and -- but he | | | | | |\n| 4 | needs to explain the details as much as he can | | | | | |\n| 5 | because it's a -- it's related to his lifeline. | | | | | |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Sarnoff? | | | | | |\n| 7 | MR. SARNOFF:
Yeah.
I just wanted to make | | | | | |\n| 8 | clear that to the extent there is a discrepancy | | | | | |\n| 9 | between the interpreter -- the translator, the | | | | | |\n| 10 | official translator and Mr. Kwok's interpreter, that | | | | | |\n| 11 | the translator is the final arbiter and that unless | | | | | |\n| 12 | the translator agrees with the translation | | | | | |\n| 13 | difference that the interpreter is putting forth, | | | | | |\n| 14 | they have to work that out before we can defer to | | | | | |\n| 15 | the -- to Mr. Kwok's personal interpreter as what | | | | | |\n| 16 | Mr. Kwok said. | | | | | |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
I don't accept that. | | | | | |\n| 18 | MR. SARNOFF:
That's fine. | | | | | |\n| 19 | MR. BALDIGA:
That can be your position. | | | | | |\n| 20 | MR. SARNOFF:
Okay.
The position has to | | | | | |\n| 21 | be that the translator has to agree with the | | | | | |\n| 22 | interpreter about what Mr. Kwok said for the record | | | | | |\n| 23 | to be accurate. | | | | | |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
That -- I understand your | | | | | |\n| 25 | position. | | | | | |\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 20 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
So, Holley, if | | | | | | |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|--|--|--|\n| 2 | I miss anything that his personal interpreter wants | | | | | | |\n| 3 | to make up whatever I'm missing, some of the detail | | | | | | |\n| 4 | information, and is it okay for her to add on and if | | | | | | |\n| 5 | I agree what -- you know, what I'm missing or what | | | | | | |\n| 6 | he said, maybe I'm missing some detail information | | | | | | |\n| 7 | and some -- | | | | | | |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I think the better route | | | | | | |\n| 9 | for today -- | | | | | | |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. | | | | | | |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- and for purposes of a | | | | | | |\n| 12 | clear translation and a clear record -- | | | | | | |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. | | | | | | |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- is for you, Jeff, to | | | | | | |\n| 15 | interpret -- | | | | | | |\n| 16 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Uh-huh. | | | | | | |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- my questions and to | | | | | | |\n| 18 | interpret Mr. Kwok's answers. | | | | | | |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. | | | | | | |\n| 20 | MS. CLAIBORN:
And if Mr. Kwok thinks, | | | | | | |\n| 21 | based on your interpretation, that you have not | | | | | | |\n| 22 | translated properly, then he can testify again and | | | | | | |\n| 23 | you can try again. | | | | | | |\n| 24 | But I would like to restrict the | | | | | | |\n| 25 | interaction that happens between translators and | | | | | | |\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 21 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | between Mr. Kwok's personal translator so that we | | | | | | |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|--|--|--|\n| 2 | have an official record where the person asking the | | | | | | |\n| 3 | question is me, it's being officially translated, | | | | | | |\n| 4 | and Mr. Kwok is giving the answers, and that also is | | | | | | |\n| 5 | being officially translated. | | | | | | |\n| 6 | MR. BALDIGA:
But, Holley, the problem | | | | | | |\n| 7 | with that is the witness doesn't know whether Jeff's | | | | | | |\n| 8 | English report is in fact accurate.
You can't leave | | | | | | |\n| 9 | it up to the witness.
That's why we have a check | | | | | | |\n| 10 | interpreter.
If he spoke English, then we wouldn't | | | | | | |\n| 11 | need any interpreters.
He can't do that. | | | | | | |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I think as a practical | | | | | | |\n| 13 | matter, Mr. Kwok speaks enough English to know | | | | | | |\n| 14 | whether or not he's answered his question. | | | | | | |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
No, he doesn't.
I object. | | | | | | |\n| 16 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Well, I -- I think that | | | | | | |\n| 17 | that has been what I have seen from my own personal | | | | | | |\n| 18 | experience. | | | | | | |\n| 19 | That said, we're going to try and do the | | | | | | |\n| 20 | best we can -- | | | | | | |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
I agree. | | | | | | |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- and we'll see where we | | | | | | |\n| 23 | go. | | | | | | |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay. | | | | | | |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay? | | | | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
21 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 2 | Q
So back to questions and answers.
Mr. |\n| 3 | Kwok, do you own an interest in Genever Holdings |\n| 4 | Corporation? |\n| 5 | A
I just have -- in reality, I don't, but I |\n| 6 | just held -- I just represent my family to hold some |\n| 7 | interest. |\n| 8 | Q
Is anyone authorized to act on behalf of |\n| 9 | Genever Holdings Corporation aside from you? |\n| 10 | A
My son. |\n| 11 | Q
Is there a document that memorializes your |\n| 12 | ownership interest, whatever it is, in Genever |\n| 13 | Holdings Corporation? |\n| 14 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You -- you may |\n| 15 | answer. |\n| 16 | THE WITNESS:
No. |\n| 17 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Ms. Holley, can |\n| 18 | I -- first of all, the last time that -- when he was |\n| 19 | saying -- instructing the witness about his |\n| 20 | testimony, what should it be, I don't think the |\n| 21 | interpreter -- the official interpreter interpreted |\n| 22 | your instruction.
He is telling the witness what he |\n| 23 | should be doing, but not what you were saying. |\n| 24 | And then, now that the witness is saying |\n| 25 | that he asked the interpreter twice that -- you were |\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 23 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n talking about ownership, you were talking about ownership interest. Now he used twice these words, and then at the end, Mr. Jeff said, yes. And then, so he answered no, but then the interaction was not interpreted. MS. CLAIBORN: Mr. Jeff, could you translate? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: I don't know what she just said. I don't know. I didn't understand what she's saying. THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: I mean, every word should be interpreted. The witness -- every word the witness says should be interpreted. Ms. Holley's words should be interpreted, right? MS. CLAIBORN: Yes. THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: Right. But he will -- not interpreted Ms. Holley's -- and you did not interpret everything Mr. Kwok said. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Okay. Maybe -- maybe we should have her to interpret. I'm going to excuse myself. I don't know -- MS. CLAIBORN: I'm going to put the -- THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: -- I'm not familiar with -- MS. CLAIBORN: -- I'm going to put the\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
23 |\n| 1 | matter on pause for a moment. |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, yeah, |\n| 3 | yeah. |\n| 4 | (Off the record) |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
We are back on |\n| 6 | the record after a short break. |\n| 7 | Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath. |\n| 8 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 9 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you have any United States |\n| 10 | currency with you today? |\n| 11 | A
No. |\n| 12 | Q
When you filed your bankruptcy case, did |\n| 13 | you have any United States currency? |\n| 14 | A
No. |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own any foreign currency? |\n| 16 | A
No. |\n| 17 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own any digital currency? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you have any financial |\n| 20 | accounts of any kind in the United States? |\n| 21 | A
No. |\n| 22 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you have any financial |\n| 23 | accounts of any kind outside of the United States? |\n| 24 | A
No. |\n| 25 | Q
On March 21st, you testified you have no |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 25 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | |\n|--|--|-----------------------------|--|\n| | | | |\n\n| 1 | job and no source of income.
Who pays for your |\n|----|---------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | household expenses? |\n| 3 | A
Sometimes my son, sometimes my wife, or |\n| 4 | sometimes my other family member. |\n| 5 | Q
Do you have access to any credit cards? |\n| 6 | A
No. |\n| 7 | Q
Do you have access to any debit cards |\n| 8 | attached to a bank account? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | Q
How do you pay for groceries? |\n| 11 | A
My son, my wife, my family members' |\n| 12 | company pay for. |\n| 13 | Q
Where does your son live? |\n| 14 | A
London. |\n| 15 | Q
How does your son send you money? |\n| 16 | A
He has a family office in a company, New |\n| 17 | York. |\n| 18 | Q
Does the family office give you money? |\n| 19 | A
They pay the expenses above. |\n| 20 | Q
What does the term family office mean? |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You may answer. |\n| 22 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can I ask to -- |\n| 23 | ask him to repeat? |\n| 24 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Yes. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
Can you |\n\n### Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 26 of\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
25 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | -- |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
Right.
He also have to |\n| 3 | interpret for the witness what I say. |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
You haven't said anything |\n| 5 | yet and he's going to ask him to repeat his answers |\n| 6 | so then he's going to translate, and then we can |\n| 7 | have whatever discussion you want to have. |\n| 8 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
The counsel |\n| 9 | raised objection.
The interpreter did not interpret |\n| 10 | the objection. |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I can happily repeat the |\n| 12 | question, but we are not going to get anywhere today |\n| 13 | in a meaningful fashion if people are interrupting |\n| 14 | on basic questions. |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
No, I didn't interrupt, but |\n| 16 | -- |\n| 17 | MS. CLAIBORN:
So let me try again. |\n| 18 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay.
But hold on.
If I |\n| 19 | object or if I say anything else, that has to be |\n| 20 | interpreted. |\n| 21 | MS. CLAIBORN:
You're not waiting for |\n| 22 | space to interpret.
So, Mr. Jeff, can you interpret |\n| 23 | that exchange that just happened? |\n| 24 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
I don't |\n| 25 | know.
It's just too much interruption. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
26 |\n| 1 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Right. |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Holley, I can't |\n| 3 | do -- keep doing this.
I just too distracted and I |\n| 4 | don't know.
It just a simple -- ask the witness |\n| 5 | just a simple repeat and then -- |\n| 6 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Let me try -- |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- it gets all |\n| 8 | these people involved. |\n| 9 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Correct.
Let me -- |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
We're not going |\n| 11 | anywhere. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Let me try the question |\n| 13 | again. |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, what do you mean by the term, |\n| 16 | family office? |\n| 17 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
You may answer. |\n| 18 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Baldiga, that term is |\n| 19 | all over the papers.
Can you repeat -- translate? |\n| 20 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
No, I'm not |\n| 21 | going anywhere.
Holley, I just excuse myself.
I'm |\n| 22 | sorry.
It's -- it's not going -- |\n| 23 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to put it on |\n| 24 | pause, please. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- this is too |\n\n### Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 28 of\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
27 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | much. |\n| 2 | (Off the record) |\n| 3 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We're back on the record |\n| 4 | after a short break. |\n| 5 | Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath.
During |\n| 6 | the break, I spoke with Attorney Baldiga and we have |\n| 7 | agreed that all objections as to form of the |\n| 8 | question are reserved. |\n| 9 | I'm going to go back to my questions. |\n| 10 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
The question we left off after the break |\n| 12 | was what do you mean by the term family office? |\n| 13 | A
They are representing my big family.
It's |\n| 14 | a company my son, my daughter, my wife, and it's a |\n| 15 | company representing my family for investment. |\n| 16 | Q
What is the name of the company? |\n| 17 | A
Golden Spring Europe. |\n| 18 | Q
Do you mean Golden Spring New York? |\n| 19 | A
Roughly the name. |\n| 20 | Q
Who pays for the meals that you eat? |\n| 21 | A
Sometimes my wife's company, sometimes my |\n| 22 | family office, my son's company. |\n| 23 | Q
Mr. Kwok, when you use the term family |\n| 24 | office, are you referring to the company known as |\n| 25 | Golden Spring New York Limited? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
28 |\n| 1 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What's the name |\n| 2 | of the company? | Can I -- can you repeat it? |\n| 3 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
The name is Golden Spring |\n| 4 | New York Limited. | |\n| 5 | | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 6 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 7 | Q | In your bankruptcy case, you filed a |\n| 8 | | report covering your expenses for the month of |\n| 9 | February. | |\n| 10 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
May I repeat |\n| 11 | again? | |\n| 12 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Maybe I'll try it again. |\n| 13 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Thank you. |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 15 | Q | Mr. Kwok, you filed a monthly operating |\n| 16 | | report covering the month of February 2022, and that |\n| 17 | | report shows you spent approximately \\$160,000. |\n| 18 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
I object. |\n| 19 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 20 | Q | Who funded the disbursements of \\$160,000? |\n| 21 | A | Some from the Golden Spring family office |\n| 22 | | and the company, some were paid by my wife and my |\n| 23 | wife's company. | |\n| 24 | Q | What is the name of your wife's company? |\n| 25 | A | Greenwich, in Connecticut. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 30 of |\n|---------------|---------------|--------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------|-------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 29 |\n| 1 | Q | | Are you referring to the company? | |\n| 2 | A | Yes, the company name. | | |\n| 3 | Q | | What expenses does your wife company, | |\n| 4 | | Greenwich, pay for? | | |\n| 5 | A | | Mostly food, because I live in my wife's | |\n| 6 | house. | | We share the cleaning, the expenses because | |\n| 7 | | | -- and also the garden maintenance expenses. | |\n| 8 | | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: | Okay. | Can we take |\n| 9 | | | a quick time out so I can speak with my co-counsel? | |\n| 10 | | Or with my partner. | | |\n| 11 | | MR. BALDIGA: | No, let's just wait. | |\n| 12 | | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | |\n| 13 | Q | | Where does your wife's company, Greenwich, | |\n| 14 | | get its money from? | | |\n| 15 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 16 | Q | | Did your wife's company, Greenwich, pay | |\n| 17 | | for any professional expenses? | | |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 19 | Q | | Is your wife the person who actually makes | |\n| 20 | the payments? | | | |\n| 21 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 22 | Q | | Does your wife have a checking account? | |\n| 23 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 24 | Q | | Does your wife have a debit card? | |\n| 25 | A | I don't know. | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 31 of |\n|---------------|-------------|---------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 30 |\n| 1 | Q | | When you eat in a restaurant with your | |\n| 2 | | wife, who pays the bill? | | |\n| 3 | A | | I never went to a restaurant with my wife. | |\n| 4 | Q | Ever? | | |\n| 5 | A | | I think I was chased by these people and I | |\n| 6 | never went. | | Thinks I -- you know, I think I was | |\n| 7 | | chased by these people. | | |\n| 8 | Q | | Does your wife buy groceries? | |\n| 9 | A | Sometimes. | | |\n| 10 | Q | | How does she pay for them? | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 12 | Q | | Why does Golden Spring New York pay for | |\n| 13 | | some of your personal expenses? | | |\n| 14 | A | | Because I'm one of the family member, and | |\n| 15 | | | my son is very successful and he loves me very much. | |\n| 16 | Q | | Is there any other reason? | |\n| 17 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 18 | Q | | What personal living expenses of yours | |\n| 19 | | does Golden Spring pay for? | | |\n| 20 | A | | The expense from security because I was | |\n| 21 | | | chased by the people in the back, and the | |\n| 22 | | | transportation, clothing, and some items for living. | |\n| 23 | Q | | Who is the person at Golden Spring New | |\n| 24 | York -- | | | |\n| 25 | | MS. CLAIBORN: | Wait a minute. | I'm going |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
31 |\n| 1 | | to ask a full question. |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 3 | Q | So who is the person at Golden Spring New |\n| 4 | | York who authorizes the payment of your personal |\n| 5 | living expenses? | |\n| 6 | A | My son. |\n| 7 | Q | Please explain how your son authorizes |\n| 8 | those payments. | |\n| 9 | A | I usually communicate with Golden Spring, |\n| 10 | | the company's manager and CEO. |\n| 11 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
(Indiscernible) |\n| 12 | | director, not manager. |\n| 13 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Could you -- |\n| 14 | okay. | Director, not a manager. |\n| 15 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 17 | Q | Mr. Kwok, who is the director or manager |\n| 18 | | that you just referred to? |\n| 19 | A | Wang Yanping. |\n| 20 | Q | Is Ms. Ping a officer of Golden Spring New |\n| 21 | York? | |\n| 22 | A | She is a Miss.
She's a lady. |\n| 23 | Q | Is Ms. Ping a corporate officer of Golden |\n| 24 | Spring New York? | |\n| 25 | A | Yes. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 |\n|---------------|-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
32 |\n| 1 | Q | What is her title? |\n| 2 | A | She is a officer or director. |\n| 3 | Q | Does she have a position title? |\n| 4 | A | I don't know. |\n| 5 | Q | Mr. Kwok, are you a corporate officer of |\n| 6 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 7 | A | Now? |\n| 8 | Q | Yes. |\n| 9 | A | No. |\n| 10 | Q | Mr. Kwok, have you ever been in the past, |\n| 11 | | a corporate officer of Golden Spring New York? |\n| 12 | A | I seem to hold a title when the company |\n| 13 | | was established in 2015.
I forgot what title was it |\n| 14 | then. | |\n| 15 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you own any interest in |\n| 16 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 17 | A | No. |\n| 18 | Q | In the past, have you ever had any kind of |\n| 19 | | ownership interest in Golden Spring New York? |\n| 20 | A | No. |\n| 21 | Q | Were you involved in the formation of |\n| 22 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 23 | A | Yes. |\n| 24 | Q | What was your role in the formation of |\n| 25 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 34 of |\n|---------------|-------------------|--------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 33 |\n| 1 | A | | Consultant and giving advice, suggestions. | |\n| 2 | Q | | Was your son involved in the formation of | |\n| 3 | | Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 4 | A | He is the main person. | He -- he was the | |\n| 5 | main person. | | | |\n| 6 | Q | | When Golden Spring New York was created, | |\n| 7 | | | who had the ownership interest in New York -- Golden | |\n| 8 | | New -- Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 9 | A | My son. | | |\n| 10 | Q | | Did Golden Spring Hong Kong have any | |\n| 11 | | | ownership interest in Golden Spring New York? | |\n| 12 | A | | I don't know the detail of the interest | |\n| 13 | | | and because this -- these two combined, it's | |\n| 14 | | considered one thing. | | |\n| 15 | Q | | Is Golden Spring Hong Kong a separate | |\n| 16 | | company from Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 17 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 18 | Q | | Who owns Golden Spring Hong Kong? | |\n| 19 | A | My son. | | |\n| 20 | Q | | In 2015, when Golden Spring New York was | |\n| 21 | | | formed, who owned Golden Spring Hong Kong? | |\n| 22 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 23 | Q | | Are you a corporate officer of Golden | |\n| 24 | Spring Hong Kong? | | | |\n| 25 | A | I don't remember. | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
34 |\n| 1 | Q | Have you ever been a cooperate officer of |\n| 2 | | Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 3 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q | Do you have any ownership interest in |\n| 5 | | Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 6 | A | No. |\n| 7 | Q | Have you ever in the past, had an |\n| 8 | | ownership interest in Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 9 | A | No. |\n| 10 | Q | What type of business is Golden Spring New |\n| 11 | York engaged in? | |\n| 12 | A | I don't know. |\n| 13 | Q | How does Golden Spring New York generate |\n| 14 | revenue? | |\n| 15 | A | I don't know. |\n| 16 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Ms. Holley, I |\n| 17 | | don't know if this -- the (indiscernible) he said, |\n| 18 | | how does Golden Spring New York generate revenue, |\n| 19 | | not how does Golden Spring New York making money, |\n| 20 | right? | |\n| 21 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
That was basically my |\n| 22 | question. | |\n| 23 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yeah, so the |\n| 24 | | interpreter should not say -- interpret it in such a |\n| 25 | | way that Golden Spring New York -- how does Golden |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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35 |\n| 1 | Spring New York make money, to the -- to the -- to |\n| 2 | Mr. Kwok. |\n| 3 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Generate money, |\n| 4 | yeah.
Generate revenue, generate money. |\n| 5 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No, but you said |\n| 6 | -- |\n| 7 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm happy to ask it |\n| 8 | specifically. |\n| 9 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 10 | Q
How does Golden Spring New York make |\n| 11 | money? |\n| 12 | A
I don't know. |\n| 13 | Q
In the year 2015, were you involved in |\n| 14 | Golden Spring New York's business? |\n| 15 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 16 | Q
Have you ever given a gift of money to |\n| 17 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
Have you ever given any money to Golden |\n| 20 | Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A
No. |\n| 22 | Q
Have you ever transferred any property of |\n| 23 | any kind to Golden Spring New York? |\n| 24 | A
No. |\n| | |\n\nQ Have you ever funded Golden Spring New\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 37 of |\n|---------------|---------------------|----------------------------------|----------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 36 |\n| 1 | York in any way? | | | |\n| 2 | A | No. | | |\n| 3 | Q | | Have you ever loaned money to Golden | |\n| 4 | Spring New York? | | | |\n| 5 | A | No. | | |\n| 6 | Q | | Have you ever invested any of your own | |\n| 7 | | money in Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 8 | A | No. | | |\n| 9 | Q | | What corporate position does Yanping Wang | |\n| 10 | Hold? | | | |\n| 11 | A | Officer and director. | | |\n| 12 | Q | | Is Yanping Wang the president of Golden | |\n| 13 | Spring New York? | | | |\n| 14 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 15 | Q | | Does Golden Spring New York have any other | |\n| 16 | corporate officers? | | | |\n| 17 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 18 | Q | Who are they? | | |\n| 19 | A | | I don't remember clearly about their | |\n| 20 | names. | | | |\n| 21 | Q | | Please tell me what you remember. | |\n| 22 | A | | What -- I don't remember their names | |\n| 23 | | | clearly and -- because I don't even remember | |\n| 24 | attorney's names. | | I don't want to misleading you, | |\n| 25 | Holley. | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18
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134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
37 |\n| 1 | Q | How many officers does Golden Spring New |\n| 2 | York have? | |\n| 3 | A | I don't remember.
Oh, I don't know. |\n| 4 | Sorry. | I don't know. |\n| 5 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any |\n| 6 | directors? | |\n| 7 | A | Yanping Wang. |\n| 8 | Q | Is Ms. Wang the only director of Golden |\n| 9 | Spring New York? | |\n| 10 | A | I don't know. |\n| 11 | Q | Where does Golden Spring New York get the |\n| 12 | | money that it uses to pay your personal expenses? |\n| 13 | A | I don't know. |\n| 14 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any |\n| 15 | employees? | |\n| 16 | A | Yes. |\n| 17 | Q | How many? |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q | Are you currently involved in any way in |\n| 20 | | the business of Golden Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A | No. |\n| 22 | Q | What does Golden Spring New York own? |\n| 23 | A | I don't know. |\n| 24 | Q | Golden Spring New York is willing to loan |\n| 25 | | you the sum of \\$8 million.
Where is it getting that |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
38 |\n| 1 | \\$8 million from? | |\n| 2 | A | I don't know. |\n| 3 | Q | Are you the person who asked Golden Spring |\n| 4 | | New York to loan you \\$8 million? |\n| 5 | A | No. |\n| 6 | Q | Who asked Golden Spring New York to loan |\n| 7 | you \\$8 million? | |\n| 8 | A | My attorney. |\n| 9 | Q | Which attorney? |\n| 10 | A | Aaron Mitchell here. |\n| 11 | Q | Are you referring to Aaron Mitchell? |\n| 12 | A | Now I remember his name now. |\n| 13 | | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Just for the |\n| 14 | | record, I'm not sure Mr. Mitchell has registered an |\n| 15 | appearance yet. | It would be appropriate if he's |\n| 16 | | going to be here representing the debtor, if he |\n| 17 | | (indiscernible) his appearance. |\n| 18 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
I believe I did read Mr. |\n| 19 | | Mitchell's name earlier today. |\n| 20 | | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
He hasn't filed -- |\n| 21 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
He did sign -- |\n| 22 | | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
-- an appearance in |\n| 23 | this matter. | |\n| 24 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Thank you.
Can you |\n| 25 | translate that? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
39 |\n| 1 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't hear |\n| 2 | totally clearly. | I know it's some distance.
I |\n| 3 | don't -- | |\n| 4 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 5 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have any bank |\n| 6 | accounts? | |\n| 7 | A | I don't know. |\n| 8 | Q | Do you have access to Golden Spring New |\n| 9 | | York's financial accounts? |\n| 10 | A | No. |\n| 11 | Q | Do you have authority to enter into |\n| 12 | | financial transactions on behalf of Golden Spring |\n| 13 | New York? | |\n| 14 | A | No. |\n| 15 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No.
No, that's |\n| 16 | not the question. | |\n| 17 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What was it? |\n| 18 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm happy to repeat the |\n| 19 | question. | |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 21 | Q | Do you have authority to enter into |\n| 22 | | financial transactions on behalf of Golden Spring |\n| 23 | New York? | Mr. Kwok, if you don't answer -- if you |\n| 24 | | don't understand my question -- |\n| 25 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He's asking if |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
40 |\n| 1 | he -- if I was asking if he has the right to use the |\n| 2 | -- the Golden Spring New York, the accounts for |\n| 3 | transactions.
You know. |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
That was not my question. |\n| 5 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 6 | Q
Mr. Kwok, are you authorized to enter into |\n| 7 | any kind of financial transactions on behalf of |\n| 8 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me, the interpreter |\n| 11 | might have a comment. |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can you translate that, |\n| 13 | please? |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah.
She said |\n| 15 | that it's the trading -- trading of the financial |\n| 16 | trading -- |\n| 17 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Transaction. |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
-- transaction |\n| 19 | to -- |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Not trading. |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said that, |\n| 22 | no, he was not -- I was not authorized to do the |\n| 23 | transactions, financial transactions. |\n| 24 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 25 | Q
What, if anything, do you currently do for |\n\n| | 134
Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
41 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 2 | A
No. |\n| 3 | Q
Is Golden Spring New York funding your |\n| 4 | son's personal living expenses? |\n| 5 | A
I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q
Is Golden Spring New York funding your |\n| 7 | daughter's personal living expenses? |\n| 8 | A
I don't know. |\n| 9 | Q
Do you owe any money to Golden Spring New |\n| 10 | York? |\n| 11 | A
Yes. |\n| 12 | Q
How much? |\n| 13 | A
Like more than \\$21 million. |\n| 14 | Q
How do you owe more than \\$21 million to |\n| 15 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 16 | A
Because in the past five years and I was |\n| 17 | sued by a lot of creditors. |\n| 18 | Q
Did Golden Spring New York -- |\n| 19 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I apologize. |\n| 20 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I just ask him |\n| 21 | to repeat. |\n| 22 | THE WITNESS:
In the past five years, I |\n| 23 | was chased by Chinese Communist Party. |\n| 24 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 25 | it.
Ask -- I'm asking him to repeat it one more |\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 42 of\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | time. |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
Short -- short answer. |\n| 3 | THE WITNESS:
In the past five years I was |\n| 4 | trapped -- trapped by some of the cases from Chinese |\n| 5 | Communist Party, designed by the Chinese Communist |\n| 6 | Party, including the case past, that case.
I need |\n| 7 | to -- need to pay a large amount of legal fees so |\n| 8 | that's why I got the support from the Golden Spring |\n| 9 | New York.
This is the main reason I owe \\$21 |\n| 10 | million. |\n| 11 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Interpreter |\n| 12 | missed that, the legal -- legal fee. |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, I said |\n| 14 | the legal fee.
I said that.
Did I say legal fee? |\n| 15 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I didn't think |\n| 16 | so, but as long as you say that. |\n| 17 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 18 | Q
How much of the \\$21 million is comprised |\n| 19 | of legal fees? |\n| 20 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 21 | that one again? |\n| 22 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 23 | Q
How much of the \\$21 million -- |\n| 24 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 25 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18
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134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
43 |\n| 1 | Q | -- is comprised of legal fees? |\n| 2 | A | I think most of it is legal fee. |\n| 3 | Q | Why is Golden Spring New York paying your |\n| 4 | legal fees? | |\n| 5 | A | Because the Golden Spring New York is my |\n| 6 | | son and my family's company and they love me very |\n| 7 | much. | They hope -- they hoping me to live, not be |\n| 8 | | killed by the people behind me. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you have any written agreement with |\n| 10 | | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | What legal -- sorry.
What written |\n| 13 | | agreements do you have with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 14 | A | It's agreement for borrowing -- borrowing |\n| 15 | money. | |\n| 16 | Q | When did you enter into that agreement to |\n| 17 | borrow money? | |\n| 18 | A | A few years ago.
I know -- I don't know |\n| 19 | rough time. | |\n| 20 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't recall. |\n| 21 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
What -- |\n| 22 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What -- yeah, I |\n| 23 | | don't remember the time. |\n| 24 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 25 | Q | What are the terms of the legal agreement |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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44 |\n| 1 | with Golden Spring New York?
Sorry.
Let me |\n| 2 | rephrase that.
What are the terms of the written |\n| 3 | agreement with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 4 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 5 | UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Sorry.
Could you |\n| 6 | repeat the English, please? |\n| 7 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Go ahead and say that -- |\n| 8 | repeat. |\n| 9 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't |\n| 10 | remember. |\n| 11 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 12 | Q
Are you obligated under that written |\n| 13 | agreement with Golden Spring New York to pay back |\n| 14 | all of the money? |\n| 15 | A
Yes. |\n| 16 | MR. BALDIGA:
There's more to the |\n| 17 | question. |\n| 18 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 19 | Q
That Golden Spring paid to lawyers on your |\n| 20 | behalf. |\n| 21 | A
Yes. |\n| 22 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
It was only |\n| 23 | (indiscernible) of a difference in the interpreting. |\n| 24 | For example, the interpreter did not interpret under |\n| 25 | the agreement, are you obligated to make them all -- |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 46 of |\n|---------------|------------------|-------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------|-----------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 45 |\n| 1 | | to pay back all the money. | All the money that is, | |\n| 2 | you know -- | | | |\n| 3 | | MR. BALDIGA: | Okay. | |\n| 4 | | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: | -- spent on the |\n| 5 | lawyer. | | | |\n| 6 | | MR. BALDIGA: | Maybe Holley can clarify | |\n| 7 | that. | | | |\n| 8 | | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yeah. | |\n| 9 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 10 | Q | | I'm going to ask a long question. | I'm |\n| 11 | | going to break it into parts. | | |\n| 12 | | | Mr. Kwok, are you obligated to pay back | |\n| 13 | | | Golden Spring New York for all of the money that | |\n| 14 | | | Golden Spring New York paid to lawyers on your | |\n| 15 | behalf? | | | |\n| 16 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 17 | Q | | Is that agreement with Golden Spring New | |\n| 18 | York in writing? | | | |\n| 19 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 20 | Q | | Is that the same written agreement you | |\n| 21 | | mentioned a few minutes ago? | | |\n| 22 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 23 | Q | | Do you have more than one written | |\n| 24 | | | agreement with Golden Spring New York? | |\n| 25 | A | Yes. | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
46 |\n| 1 | Q
What are your other written agreements |\n| 2 | with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 3 | A
In the past week, I had a case with Logan |\n| 4 | Cheng.
The settlement with Logan Cheng, the money |\n| 5 | from -- for the settlement is the money I borrow |\n| 6 | from Golden Spring New York. |\n| 7 | Q
Do you have any other written agreements |\n| 8 | with Golden Spring New York? |\n| 9 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 10 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a fee |\n| 11 | agreement with any of the attorneys who represent |\n| 12 | you in litigation? |\n| 13 | Can you -- can you answer, Mr. Kwok? |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Any agreement |\n| 15 | with -- can you repeat one more time? |\n| 16 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 17 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a -- any |\n| 18 | kind of a fee agreement with any of the lawyers who |\n| 19 | represent Mr. Kwok in litigation? |\n| 20 | A
I don't know. |\n| 21 | Q
Mr. Kwok, who represents you in the |\n| 22 | litigation you filed against UBS in London? |\n| 23 | A
Attorney -- attorney office in London. |\n| 24 | Q
What is the name? |\n| 25 | A
I don't remember completely about the |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
47 |\n| 1 | English name. | |\n| 2 | Q | Does Golden Spring New York have a fee |\n| 3 | | agreement with that attorney in London? |\n| 4 | A | There should be. |\n| 5 | | MR. BALDIGA:
I'm sorry.
What was the |\n| 6 | answer? | |\n| 7 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Should have. |\n| 8 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 9 | Q | Do you know if it does have enough -- have |\n| 10 | a fee agreement? | |\n| 11 | A | I'm not sure. |\n| 12 | Q | Who is the person at Golden Spring New |\n| 13 | | York who authorized payment of your litigation |\n| 14 | expenses? | |\n| 15 | A | My son. |\n| 16 | Q | Does your son have to speak with anyone |\n| 17 | | else in order to use Golden Spring New York money |\n| 18 | for your benefit? | |\n| 19 | A | Yes. |\n| 20 | Q | Who does your son need to speak with? |\n| 21 | A | He needs to talk to my family member, |\n| 22 | | which includes more than 100 family members, and |\n| 23 | | that because they have a fund. |\n| 24 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
That -- the |\n| 25 | number is 181. | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 49 of |\n|---------------|--------------------|-----------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 48 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 2 | Q | | Mr. Kwok, if your son wanted to give you | |\n| 3 | | | \\$100, would he have to seek authority from someone | |\n| 4 | | at Golden Spring New York? | | |\n| 5 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 6 | Q | | When you say your son has to speak with | |\n| 7 | | | someone at Golden Spring New York, how many people | |\n| 8 | | does he need to speak with? | | |\n| 9 | A | I don't know details. | | |\n| 10 | Q | | With respect to the \\$8 million that Golden | |\n| 11 | | | Spring New York is willing to loan you, did your son | |\n| 12 | | | have to obtain consent of other people at Golden | |\n| 13 | | | Spring New York for that transaction? | |\n| 14 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 15 | Q | | Have you ever been to the office of Golden | |\n| 16 | | Spring New York in New York City? | | |\n| 17 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 18 | Q | | How often do you go to the Golden Spring | |\n| 19 | | New York office in New York City? | | |\n| 20 | A | Not -- not fixed. | Sometimes I go there a | |\n| 21 | few times a month. | | Sometimes I haven't -- I haven't | |\n| 22 | | gone there for a few months. | | |\n| 23 | Q | | When was the last time you went to the | |\n| 24 | | Golden Spring New York office? | | |\n| 25 | A | Yesterday. | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
49 |\n| 1 | Q | Why did you go? |\n| 2 | A | For preparing today's meeting. |\n| 3 | Q | Did your son speak with Yanping Wang about |\n| 4 | | the \\$8 million loan? |\n| 5 | A | I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q | Did you negotiate the terms of the \\$8 |\n| 7 | | million loan from Golden Spring New York? |\n| 8 | A | No. |\n| 9 | Q | Who was the person who negotiated the \\$8 |\n| 10 | | million loan on your behalf? |\n| 11 | A | My attorney. |\n| 12 | Q | Which attorney? |\n| 13 | A | Aaron Mitchell. |\n| 14 | Q | Who did Attorney Aaron Mitchell negotiate |\n| 15 | | with at Golden Spring New York? |\n| 16 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 17 | one? | |\n| 18 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 19 | Q | Who did Attorney Aaron Mitchell negotiate |\n| 20 | | with at Golden Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A | I don't know.
My son. |\n| 22 | Q | Did you borrow the sum of \\$1 million from |\n| 23 | | Lamp Capital, LLC in February 2022? |\n| 24 | A | Yes. |\n| 25 | Q | Is that loan from Lamp Capital, LLC in |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 |\n|---------------|---------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
50 |\n| 1 | writing? | |\n| 2 | A | No. |\n| 3 | Q | What are the loan terms of the loan from |\n| 4 | Lamp Capital? | |\n| 5 | A | I don't know detail. |\n| 6 | Q | Who are the members of Lamp Capital, LLC? |\n| 7 | A | My son. |\n| 8 | Q | Are there any other members of Lamp |\n| 9 | Capital, LLC? | |\n| 10 | A | I don't know. |\n| 11 | Q | Who is the managing member of Lamp |\n| 12 | Capital, LLC? | |\n| 13 | A | I don't know. |\n| 14 | Q | Who was the person at Lamp Capital who |\n| 15 | | authorized the loan? |\n| 16 | A | My son. |\n| 17 | Q | What are the assets of Lamp Capital, LLC? |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q | What does Lamp Capital own? |\n| 20 | A | I don't know. |\n| 21 | Q | Have you ever funded Lamp Capital in any |\n| 22 | way? | |\n| 23 | A | No. |\n| 24 | Q | Have you ever invested any money in Lamp |\n| 25 | Capital, LLC? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 52 of |\n|---------------|-------------------|--------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 51 |\n| 1 | A | No. | | |\n| 2 | Q | | Why did Lamp Capital loan you the \\$1 | |\n| 3 | | | million and not Golden Spring New York? | |\n| 4 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 5 | Q | | What is the source of the \\$1 million that | |\n| 6 | | Lamp Capital loaned to you? | | |\n| 7 | A | I don't know. | | |\n| 8 | | MS. CLAIBORN: | Why don't we take a five | |\n| 9 | | minute break for the restroom? | We'll reconvene | |\n| 10 | | actually, at 12:10. | | |\n| 11 | (Recess) | | | |\n| 12 | | MS. CLAIBORN: | We are back on the record | |\n| 13 | | after a short break. | | |\n| 14 | | | Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath. | |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 16 | Q | | Mr. Kwok, were you involved in the | |\n| 17 | | | selection of the lawyers who represent you in your | |\n| 18 | action in London? | | | |\n| 19 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 20 | Q | | Did your counsel in London request a | |\n| 21 | retainer? | | | |\n| 22 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 23 | Q | | And did you pay your counsel in London a | |\n| 24 | retainer? | | | |\n| 25 | A | Yes. | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 |\n|---------------|-----------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
52 |\n| 1 | Q | How much? |\n| 2 | A | 300,000 pound. |\n| 3 | Q | And when was that 300,000 pound retainer |\n| 4 | paid? | |\n| 5 | A | Roughly two years ago. |\n| 6 | Q | Who funded the retainer? |\n| 7 | A | My son helped to pay -- pay that. |\n| 8 | Q | Did your son pay all of the retainer? |\n| 9 | A | Yes. |\n| 10 | Q | Did your son pay the retainer out of his |\n| 11 | personal funds? | |\n| 12 | A | Should be from the company, England. |\n| 13 | Q | What was the name of the company who paid |\n| 14 | the retainer? | |\n| 15 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 16 | Q | Did Golden Spring New York pay the |\n| 17 | | retainer to your London counsel? |\n| 18 | A | I don't remember details because other |\n| 19 | | than the retainer and the other -- a few more |\n| 20 | | payments in -- you know, after. |\n| 21 | Q | Mr. Kwok, if you wanted to go buy a pair |\n| 22 | | of shoes, how would you pay for a pair of shoes? |\n| 23 | A | I will ask Golden Spring New York to pay |\n| 24 | for it. | |\n| 25 | Q | And how would that process work? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 54 of |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------|------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 53 |\n| 1 | A | | And I will talk to the director and E Wa | |\n| 2 | | | Wang (ph) and ask her to contact -- talk to my son | |\n| 3 | | and to pay for the shoes. | | |\n| 4 | Q | | How does the shoe company get the money? | |\n| 5 | The shoe store. | | | |\n| 6 | A | I don't know. | Usually, it's E Wa Wang and | |\n| 7 | | | communicate, because my English ability is not | |\n| 8 | | capable to communicate. | | |\n| 9 | Q | | If you went to a store, tried on shoes, | |\n| 10 | | | and wanted to take them home from the store, how | |\n| 11 | | would you pay for the shoes? | | |\n| 12 | A | | In the recent few years I basically never | |\n| 13 | | bought a pair of shoes. | | |\n| 14 | Q | | What was the last thing you paid for? | |\n| 15 | A | | Recently, I didn't go to buy anything. | |\n| 16 | | MR. BALDIGA: | I'm sorry. | Could you repeat |\n| 17 | that? | | | |\n| 18 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | Recently, I |\n| 19 | | didn't go to buy anything. | | |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 21 | Q | | My question wasn't recently. | My question |\n| 22 | | | was, what was the last thing that you purchased? | |\n| 23 | A | I don't remember. | | |\n| 24 | Q | | Do you ever eat in a restaurant? | |\n| 25 | A | Recent years, I didn't. | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 55 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
54 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Q
Before COVID 19, did you eat in |\n| 2 | restaurants? |\n| 3 | A
Very rare because I was afraid to be |\n| 4 | killed by the people behind me, because I was always |\n| 5 | in the process getting chased. |\n| 6 | Q
When you ate in a restaurant, were you the |\n| 7 | person who paid the bill? |\n| 8 | A
I don't have money to pay, so that's why I |\n| 9 | don't go there. |\n| 10 | Q
Mr. Kwok, if you wanted to go buy a cup of |\n| 11 | coffee, how would you pay for it? |\n| 12 | A
I never bought a cup of coffee.
I was -- |\n| 13 | I'm afraid the people behind me might poison me in |\n| 14 | the coffee. |\n| 15 | Q
Mr. Kwok, if you wanted to buy water, |\n| 16 | you're out and about and you want to buy water, how |\n| 17 | would you pay for it? |\n| 18 | A
Well, since 2107, I don't -- I didn't go |\n| 19 | out to buy water outside. |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
There was a |\n| 21 | (indiscernible) difference in the nuance. |\n| 22 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you -- can |\n| 23 | you repeat it -- can you repeat -- |\n| 24 | THE WITNESS:
Since 2017, I never went |\n| 25 | outside, walk around, and then buy water or coffee. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18
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134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
55 |\n| 1 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 2 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you have any interest in any |\n| 3 | mutual funds? | |\n| 4 | A | No. |\n| 5 | Q | Do you own any bonds? |\n| 6 | A | No. |\n| 7 | Q | Do you own any publically traded stock in |\n| 8 | any company? | |\n| 9 | A | No. |\n| 10 | Q | Do you own any cars? |\n| 11 | A | No. |\n| 12 | Q | Do you have access to any cars? |\n| 13 | A | Yes. |\n| 14 | Q | And whose cars do you have access to? |\n| 15 | A | My son's and Golden Springs. |\n| 16 | Q | Does Golden Spring provide you with a car |\n| 17 | | that's yours to use? |\n| 18 | A | Yes. |\n| 19 | Q | What kind of car is that? |\n| 20 | A | Maybach |\n| 21 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Maybach. |\n| 22 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Huh? |\n| 23 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Maybach. |\n| 24 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Maybach?
Okay. |\n| 25 | | I don't know the name of it. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
56 |\n| 1 | | THE WITNESS:
Maybach. |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 3 | Q | Mr. Kwok, do you have a driver's license? |\n| 4 | A | I have a Hong Kong's driver's license. |\n| 5 | Q | Do you drive in the United States? |\n| 6 | A | Almost no. |\n| 7 | Q | When you do drive, whose car do you drive? |\n| 8 | A | Golden Spring's. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you keep a car at your Greenwich |\n| 10 | residence? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | And what car is that? |\n| 13 | A | Maybach. |\n| 14 | Q | Do you own any aircraft? |\n| 15 | A | No. |\n| 16 | Q | Have you ever owned any aircraft? |\n| 17 | A | Before, yes. |\n| 18 | Q | When did you own aircraft? |\n| 19 | A | Probably 2010 to 2016. |\n| 20 | Q | How many air craft did you own? |\n| 21 | A | One. |\n| 22 | Q | And what was it? |\n| 23 | A | Airbus 319.
319. |\n| 24 | Q | And what happened to the Airbus 319? |\n| 25 | A | It was confiscated by UBS and the Chinese |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 |\n|---------------|--------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
57 |\n| 1 | Communist Party. | |\n| 2 | Q | Okay.
Do you own any water craft? |\n| 3 | A | No. |\n| 4 | Q | Who owns the yacht known as the Lady May? |\n| 5 | A | My daughter. |\n| 6 | Q | Does your daughter own the Lady May in her |\n| 7 | personal name? | |\n| 8 | A | Should be from a company. |\n| 9 | Q | And what is the name of the company that |\n| 10 | owns the Lady May? | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q | Where is the Lady May currently? |\n| 13 | A | I don't know. |\n| 14 | Q | Since the bankruptcy filing, have you |\n| 15 | | asked your daughter to return the Lady May to New |\n| 16 | York? | |\n| 17 | A | I did ask her and asked her to talk to her |\n| 18 | | attorney to return the boat back to New York. |\n| 19 | Q | When did you have that conversation? |\n| 20 | A | Last month, after the court date.
After |\n| 21 | met with you. | |\n| 22 | Q | And what did your daughter say? |\n| 23 | A | She said that she would talk to her |\n| 24 | | attorney and then talk to my attorney. |\n| 25 | Q | Did your daughter agree to have the Lady |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 59 of |\n|---------------|--------------------|------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 58 |\n| 1 | | May return to New York? | | |\n| 2 | A | | She was not willing to talk to me in any | |\n| 3 | detail. | | She want -- she wanted to talk to her | |\n| 4 | attorney. | | | |\n| 5 | Q | | Did your daughter say no to your request | |\n| 6 | | | that she return the Lady May to New York? | |\n| 7 | A | | No, he didn't -- she didn't. | |\n| 8 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: | | The question was |\n| 9 | | not completely interpreted. | | |\n| 10 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | I know, but she |\n| 11 | | | -- she already -- he already answered and -- | |\n| 12 | | MR. BALDIGA: | Wait until he finishes. | |\n| 13 | | THE WITNESS: | No, he -- no. | |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 15 | Q | | Mr. Kwok, do you own or have an interest | |\n| 16 | in any trust? | | | |\n| 17 | A | No. | | |\n| 18 | Q | | Are you the beneficiary of any trusts? | |\n| 19 | A | No. | | |\n| 20 | Q | This is a long question. | | Mr. Kwok, where |\n| 21 | | | is the \\$12,000 check paid to you in connection with | |\n| 22 | | your lawsuit against Baosheng Guo? | | |\n| 23 | A | | It's in attorney's escrow account. | |\n| 24 | Q | | What is the name of the attorney who is | |\n| 25 | holding the check? | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 60 of |\n|---------------|------------------|-----------------------------|---------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 59 |\n| 1 | A | | I can't pronounce the attorney's name | |\n| 2 | completely. | | | |\n| 3 | Q | | What is the attorney's first name? | |\n| 4 | A | | I cannot -- I'm not able to read out the - | |\n| 5 | | - the pronounce his name. | | |\n| 6 | Q | | Is the attorney who's holding the check | |\n| 7 | | | the same attorney who represented you in that | |\n| 8 | lawsuit? | | | |\n| 9 | A | It should be. | | |\n| 10 | Q | | On your Schedule A-B, you did not disclose | |\n| 11 | | that \\$12,000 check. | Why? | |\n| 12 | | MR. BALDIGA: | Wait for a question. | No. |\n| 13 | | Could he interpret that? | | |\n| 14 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | |\n| 15 | Q | | Why did you not disclose that \\$12,000 | |\n| 16 | check? | | | |\n| 17 | A | | My attorney thinks because the money is | |\n| 18 | | | not in my account, so I'm not allowed to -- we're | |\n| 19 | | | not -- I'm not supposed to disclose that. | |\n| 20 | Q | Okay. | Mr. Kwok, do you have any patents? | |\n| 21 | A | No. | | |\n| 22 | Q | | Do you have any copyrights? | |\n| 23 | A | No. | | |\n| 24 | Q | | Do you have any intellectual property of | |\n| 25 | any kind? | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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134 | |\n|---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
60 | |\n| 1 | A
No. | |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me.
Holley, I'm not | |\n| 3 | sure if you're going to come back to it, but there | |\n| 4 | is a reference to the \\$12,000. | |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I did see that. | |\n| 6 | MR. BALDIGA:
Oh, you said he didn't | |\n| 7 | disclose it. | |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
He did not.
It's not in | |\n| 9 | response to the questions on Schedule A-B. | |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
It's right there. | |\n| 11 | MS. CLAIBORN:
We can disagree about | |\n| 12 | whether or not it's disclosed, but it's my position | |\n| 13 | that it's not disclosed.
I understand you might | |\n| 14 | take a different position. | |\n| 15 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | |\n| 16 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own any interest in a | |\n| 17 | company called Ace Decade Holdings Limited? | |\n| 18 | A
Yes. | |\n| 19 | Q
What is the nature of your ownership | |\n| 20 | interest in Ace Decade Holdings Limited? | |\n| 21 | A
So I have the interest and ask for UBS to | |\n| 22 | pay back \\$500 million.
That kind of interest. | |\n| 23 | Q
Are you the only legal owner of Ace Decade | |\n| 24 | Holdings Limited? | |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Are you the | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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134 |\n|---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
61 |\n| 1 | only -- can you repeat that question? |\n| 2 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 3 | Q
Are you the only legal owner of Ace |\n| 4 | Decades? |\n| 5 | A
I am a legal representing owner. |\n| 6 | Q
Are there any other owners of Ace Decade? |\n| 7 | A
No. |\n| 8 | Q
When did you become an owner of Ace Decade |\n| 9 | Holdings Limited? |\n| 10 | A
At the end of 2014. |\n| 11 | Q
This is a long question.
In your |\n| 12 | litigation in London against UBS, you are an |\n| 13 | individual plaintiff.
What is the basis for your |\n| 14 | claim as an individual plaintiff? |\n| 15 | A
Because I'm the 100 percent representative |\n| 16 | for Ace Decade. |\n| 17 | Q
In the litigation against UBS in London, |\n| 18 | there is an allegation that Ace Decade gave \\$500 |\n| 19 | million to Dawn State Limited.
Where did Ace Decade |\n| 20 | get the \\$500 million? |\n| 21 | A
I loan from my family. |\n| 22 | Q
Did you borrow money from your family and |\n| 23 | give it to Ace Decade? |\n| 24 | A
Yes. |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I don't think that was -- |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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62 |\n| 1 | let's start over, because I don't think that was -- |\n| 2 | that was -- |\n| 3 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yeah, I thought |\n| 4 | that it was -- |\n| 5 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- that was the question, |\n| 6 | because it didn't involve Dawn State -- |\n| 7 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Yes. |\n| 8 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- so I'm going to start |\n| 9 | over. |\n| 10 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
Where did you get the money to give to Ace |\n| 12 | Decade, the 500 million? |\n| 13 | MR. BALDIGA:
I don't think he said he did |\n| 14 | that.
I think he said his family did that, but you |\n| 15 | can ask that, but I -- |\n| 16 | THE WITNESS:
From my family. |\n| 17 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 18 | Q
Who specifically in your family gave you |\n| 19 | money that you then gave to Ace Decade? |\n| 20 | A
John Way (ph). |\n| 21 | Q
Who is John Way? |\n| 22 | A
A member from my family. |\n| 23 | Q
Is he a relative of yours? |\n| 24 | A
It's my older brother's cousin or -- |\n| 25 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Son-in-law. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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63 |\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Son-in-law? |\n| 2 | Okay.
Sorry. |\n| 3 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 4 | Q
On your Schedule A-B, you list a possible |\n| 5 | malpractice claim against Boise Schiller.
Can you |\n| 6 | please explain what that is? |\n| 7 | A
He was the one -- he was the one |\n| 8 | represented me in New York to have a lawsuit against |\n| 9 | UBS.
He gave a lot of forced documents to the Court |\n| 10 | and without my permission.
He also threatened my |\n| 11 | family.
He also threaten myself after drinking.
He |\n| 12 | brought a lot of loss to us, including providing any |\n| 13 | English/Chinese translated documents to me before |\n| 14 | present them to the -- to the lawyer, or to the |\n| 15 | judge.
That's why I -- that's why we sue him. |\n| 16 | Q
Have you hired an attorney to represent |\n| 17 | you in that malpractice action? |\n| 18 | A
My son is in the process of dealing with |\n| 19 | that. |\n| 20 | Q
Why is your son talking to lawyers about |\n| 21 | your malpractice claim? |\n| 22 | A
Because I need to borrow money from him. |\n| 23 | Q
Has a lawyer been selected? |\n| 24 | A
Not yet. |\n| 25 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you own an interest in any |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 65 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 company aside from Ace Decade? A No, but the -- I own the Bravo Luck, the apartment, only for a few months, some of the interest. And because the apartment is a co-op, so they used my name to buy the apartment after I -- after we bought apartment, and then we returned the stock interest back. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm sorry. He must have spoken for 30, 40 seconds. Clearly said more than that. Is there a more fulsome translation? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Did I miss anything? MS. CLAIBORN: Let me see if I can follow up. BY MS. CLAIBORN: Q Mr. Kwok, do you own, currently, an interest in Bravo Luck? A No. Q Mr. Kwok, do you own an interest in any limited liability company? A No. Q Mr. Kwok, do you own an interest in any partnership? A I used to own the plane company called the Orange or Shiny Time, but that was before and\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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65 |\n| 1 | doesn't exist anymore. |\n| 2 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you currently own an interest |\n| 3 | in any partnership? |\n| 4 | A
No. |\n| 5 | Q
Mr. Kwok, do you currently own an interest |\n| 6 | in any joint venture? |\n| 7 | A
No. |\n| 8 | Q
Other than Ace Decade, do you own an |\n| 9 | interest in any other company right now? |\n| 10 | A
No.
I only owned the Orange and Shiny |\n| 11 | Time before, but not right now. |\n| 12 | Q
Does Golden Spring New York have a |\n| 13 | security interest in any of your litigation? |\n| 14 | A
I owe them money. |\n| 15 | Q
Have you granted to Golden Spring New |\n| 16 | York, any interest in any of your assets, anything |\n| 17 | that you own? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
So if you were to win a lawsuit against |\n| 20 | Golden Spring -- sorry.
Wrong name.
So if you were |\n| 21 | to win a lawsuit against UBS, would any of the money |\n| 22 | that you win have to be paid to Golden Spring? |\n| 23 | A
Yes. |\n| 24 | Q
And how much would that be? |\n| 25 | A
Before it was 2,200 1 million, or -- |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | | Page 67 of |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------|-------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | | 66 |\n| 1 | | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: | 21 million. | |\n| 2 | | THE WITNESS: | 21 million. | 21 million and | |\n| 3 | plus now. | | Probably it's about 300 million. | | 30 |\n| 4 | million. | Or 30 million. | Yeah. | | |\n| 5 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: | | | | |\n| 6 | Q | | Is there a document that says that any | | |\n| 7 | | | litigation winnings you receive need to be paid to | | |\n| 8 | Golden Spring? | | | | |\n| 9 | A | Yes. | | | |\n| 10 | Q | | What is the name of that document? | | |\n| 11 | | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | I'm going to | |\n| 12 | | ask him to repeat it. | | | |\n| 13 | | I didn't get it. | | I just ask him to break | |\n| 14 | | | it down, then I didn't hear what -- | | |\n| 15 | | THE WITNESS: | I have a case in DC. | | There |\n| 16 | | | is a attorney office representing me for political | | |\n| 17 | | | asylum and it was attacked by the cyber attack from | | |\n| 18 | | | the Chinese Communists, and so they -- the attorney | | |\n| 19 | | | office was closed, and they gave my personal | | |\n| 20 | | | information to the communist party, and then I sue | | |\n| 21 | them. | | And that litigation fee, attorney fee, came | | |\n| 22 | | from Golden Spring New York. | | | |\n| 23 | | | I ask for the settlement for 50,000 -- \\$50 | | |\n| 24 | million. | | If I won that money, I will give the money | | |\n| 25 | | | back to Golden Springs for the money they supported | | |\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 68 of\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
67 |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | me for attorney fees. |\n| 2 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Mr. Kwok did not |\n| 3 | say settlement.
Mr. Kwok just say, for a claim, not |\n| 4 | a settlement. |\n| 5 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
You're asking |\n| 6 | for \\$50 million.
Yeah.
He ask for \\$50 million for |\n| 7 | that lawsuit, and if he win -- if he wins the money, |\n| 8 | then he will return the money back to the Golden |\n| 9 | Spring New York. |\n| 10 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 11 | Q
My question was, what was the name of the |\n| 12 | document under which you would be repaying Golden |\n| 13 | Spring for your litigation? |\n| 14 | A
The document is the document I -- |\n| 15 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 16 | that one? |\n| 17 | THE WITNESS:
The agreement is -- it's the |\n| 18 | agreement, I borrowed the money from Golden Spring |\n| 19 | New York to sue the attorney office. |\n| 20 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 21 | Q
And what is the name of the agreement? |\n| 22 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 23 | Q
Is it a promissory note? |\n| 24 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 25 | Q
Is it a contract? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 |\n|---------------|-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
68 |\n| 1 | A | I don't remember clearly. |\n| 2 | Q | Who prepared the document? |\n| 3 | A | Attorney. |\n| 4 | Q | What was the name of the attorney who |\n| 5 | | prepared the document? |\n| 6 | A | Melissa. |\n| 7 | Q | What is Melissa's last name? |\n| 8 | A | I don't know. |\n| 9 | Q | Did Melissa the attorney represent you in |\n| 10 | | drafting that document? |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | And who represented Golden Spring in |\n| 13 | | drafting that document? |\n| 14 | A | I don't know. |\n| 15 | Q | Did Golden Spring have any attorney? |\n| 16 | A | Yes. |\n| 17 | Q | You just don't remember who it was? |\n| 18 | A | They have a lot of attorneys. |\n| 19 | Q | Is there more than one written agreement |\n| 20 | | under which you owe money to Golden Spring New York? |\n| 21 | A | Yes. |\n| 22 | Q | How many agreements are there? |\n| 23 | A | Kind of two or three, or three or four.
I |\n| 24 | | don't remember clearly. |\n| 25 | Q | And does someone keep track of the money |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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69 |\n| 1 | that you borrow from Golden Spring New York? |\n| 2 | A
My attorney will write it down.
We record |\n| 3 | it. |\n| 4 | Q
What's the name of that attorney? |\n| 5 | A
Aaron Mitchell. |\n| 6 | Q
Did you say Aaron Mitchell? |\n| 7 | A
Oh, yes. |\n| 8 | Q
And how does Aaron Mitchell keep track of |\n| 9 | the monies that you borrow from Golden Spring New |\n| 10 | York? |\n| 11 | A
In detail, I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q
Does anyone who is employed by Golden |\n| 13 | Spring New York keep track of the money that you |\n| 14 | borrow from Golden Spring New York? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Have you ever seen a document from |\n| 17 | Attorney Aaron Mitchell showing how much you owe to |\n| 18 | Golden Spring New York? |\n| 19 | A
This is the thing I -- it's something |\n| 20 | between me and my attorney I shouldn't answer. |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
Can I -- I mean -- |\n| 22 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I don't think the question |\n| 23 | involves -- |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
You can -- |\n| 25 | MS. CLAIBORN:
-- a privileged answer. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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70 |\n| 1 | MR. BALDIGA:
That's -- give me a second. |\n| 2 | You could answer that last question yes or no, so if |\n| 3 | you ask again, I think he will say yes or no, and |\n| 4 | then we can take it step by step. |\n| 5 | BY MS. CLAIBORN: |\n| 6 | Q
Have you ever seen a document prepared by |\n| 7 | Attorney Mitchell that shows you how much money you |\n| 8 | have borrowed from Golden Spring? |\n| 9 | MR. BALDIGA:
Wait.
Wait, my instruction |\n| 10 | needs to be interpreted. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What? |\n| 12 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can you -- |\n| 13 | MR. BALDIGA:
You need to instruct -- |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Just please state it and |\n| 15 | he'll reinterpret. |\n| 16 | MR. BALDIGA:
Please, tell the witness |\n| 17 | what -- I am telling the witness he may answer yes |\n| 18 | or no only. |\n| 19 | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 20 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I have other questions, but |\n| 21 | given the hour of the day, I thought that we could |\n| 22 | take a short break and then reconvene with creditors |\n| 23 | being given the opportunity to ask questions. |\n| 24 | I suggest we reconvene at 1:15. |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Is that okay? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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71 |\n| 1 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Okay.
Thank you.
We'll |\n| 2 | reconvene at 1:15. | |\n| 3 | | (Recess.) |\n| 4 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
The recording has been |\n| 5 | reconvened. | We are back in session after a short |\n| 6 | | break and Mr. Kwok, you remain under oath. |\n| 7 | | And that this point, Mr. Wolman has some |\n| 8 | | questions for you, Mr. Kwok. |\n| 9 | | EXAMINATION BY MR. WOLMAN: |\n| 10 | Q | Good afternoon, Mr. Kwok. |\n| 11 | | On March 21st I was asking you some |\n| 12 | | questions about a prior deposition, specifically |\n| 13 | | about the times you had invoked your rights under |\n| 14 | | the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. |\n| 15 | | On April 1st, 2021, were you being |\n| 16 | | investigated for any crime? |\n| 17 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
April 21st? |\n| 18 | | MR. WOLMAN:
April 1st, 2021. |\n| 19 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 20 | | that question, sir? |\n| 21 | Q | Were you being investigated for any crime? |\n| 22 | A | From SET -- American SET and the |\n| 23 | | investigating GTV and they can communicate with our |\n| 24 | attorney. | |\n| 25 | Q | Are you referring to the Securities and |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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134 | Page 73 of |\n|---------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 72 |\n| 1 | Exchange Commission? | |\n| 2 | A
Yes. | |\n| 3 | Q
And what exactly were they investigating? | |\n| 4 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection. | |\n| 5 | I need to ask whether this would reveal | |\n| 6 | privileged information. | |\n| 7 | Would your answer to the last question be | |\n| 8 | information from your attorneys? | |\n| 9 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Can I just -- | |\n| 10 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
She wants to | |\n| 11 | help. | |\n| 12 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Because he's not | |\n| 13 | -- | |\n| 14 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I think you should just try | |\n| 15 | again. Mr. Baldiga, maybe you can just repeat | |\n| 16 | yourself and Mr. Jack, you can try again. | |\n| 17 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat | |\n| 18 | what you want to say? | |\n| 19 | MR. BALDIGA:
Mr. Wolman asked you what | |\n| 20 | you were being investigated for.
Is the information | |\n| 21 | that you know, was that provided to you by your | |\n| 22 | attorneys? | |\n| 23 | THE WITNESS: Yes. | |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
And to answer the question | |\n| 25 | would you have to divulge what you were told by your | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 74 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
73 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | attorneys? |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Have to be what? |\n| 3 | Divulged? |\n| 4 | MR. BALDIGA:
Would you have to say what |\n| 5 | you were told by your attorneys? |\n| 6 | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 7 | MR. BALDIGA:
Then I instruct the witness |\n| 8 | not to answer on the basis of the attorney/client |\n| 9 | privilege. |\n| 10 | MR. WOLMAN:
That is not attorney/client |\n| 11 | information. |\n| 12 | MR. BALDIGA:
Hold on.
Let it be |\n| 13 | interpreted. |\n| 14 | MR. WOLMAN:
Information learned from an |\n| 15 | attorney that is not specifically a communication |\n| 16 | for the purpose of giving advice or receiving |\n| 17 | information is not privileged information.
If your |\n| 18 | attorneys says the sky is blue, that is not a |\n| 19 | privileged communication. |\n| 20 | MR. BALDIGA:
His is arguing with me. |\n| 21 | There is not question to you. |\n| 22 | MR. WOLMAN:
Mr. Baldiga, will you |\n| 23 | continue to instruct your client to improperly |\n| 24 | invoke the attorney/client privilege? |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
I'll instruct on a question |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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74 |\n| 1 | by question basis. |\n| 2 | MR. WOLMAN:
And this question, will you |\n| 3 | maintain the instruction? |\n| 4 | Mr. Kwok, are you refusing to answer my |\n| 5 | question? |\n| 6 | THE WITNESS:
Yes. |\n| 7 | MR. WOLMAN:
And on what basis are you |\n| 8 | refusing to answer my question? |\n| 9 | MR. BALDIGA:
On the basis of instruction |\n| 10 | from counsel on account of attorney/client |\n| 11 | privilege. |\n| 12 | THE WITNESS:
Because I can't answer the |\n| 13 | question because of the privilege between the |\n| 14 | attorney and me. |\n| 15 | BY MR. WOLMAN: |\n| 16 | Q
Have you been formally charged by the |\n| 17 | Securities and Exchange Commission? |\n| 18 | A
No. |\n| 19 | Q
Has the Securities and Exchange Commission |\n| 20 | closed its investigation of you? |\n| 21 | MR. BALDIGA:
I have to ask again, you can |\n| 22 | answer that yes or no, if you know. |\n| 23 | A
No. |\n| 24 | Q
Has the Securities and Exchange Commission |\n| 25 | brought any charges against GTV? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 |\n|---------------|----------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
75 |\n| 1 | A | I don't know. |\n| 2 | Q | Have you been in the past five years |\n| 3 | | subject to an audit by the U.S. Internal Revenue |\n| 4 | Service? | |\n| 5 | A | No. |\n| 6 | Q | In the last five years have you been |\n| 7 | | subject to an audit by the New York State taxing |\n| 8 | authority? | |\n| 9 | A | No. |\n| 10 | Q | When did you become a resident of |\n| 11 | Connecticut? | On what date? |\n| 12 | A | The beginning of March, 2020, roughly. |\n| 13 | Q | To be clear, you say you were a resident |\n| 14 | | of Connecticut in March of 2020? |\n| 15 | A | Yes. |\n| 16 | Q | So how come in Mr. Cheng, my client's, |\n| 17 | | lawsuit against you you signed a statement under |\n| 18 | | oath indicating that you were a resident of the |\n| 19 | | Sherry Netherlands Hotel? |\n| 20 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 21 | that, counsel? | |\n| 22 | Q | If you were a resident of Connecticut in |\n| 23 | | March of 2020, you signed a statement under oath in |\n| 24 | | Mr. Cheng's lawsuit against you that you resided at |\n| 25 | | the Sherry Netherlands Hotel. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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76 |\n| 1 | A | I don't 100 percent live in Connecticut, |\n| 2 | | but sometimes I live in New York also. |\n| 3 | Q | When did you start living in Connecticut |\n| 4 | | more than 50 percent of the time? |\n| 5 | A | Since March, 2020. |\n| 6 | Q | You had some assets you claim seized by |\n| 7 | China, correct? | |\n| 8 | A | It's not mine. It's from my family.
It's |\n| 9 | my family's. | |\n| 10 | Q | Have you ever had assets seized by China? |\n| 11 | A | You're talking about under my name? |\n| 12 | Q | Yes. |\n| 13 | A | No. |\n| 14 | Q | All right.
In 2010, what was your |\n| 15 | | personal net worth? |\n| 16 | A | No. |\n| 17 | Q | That wasn't a yes or no question. |\n| 18 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can I repeat |\n| 19 | | your question again? |\n| 20 | | MR. WOLMAN:
Yes. |\n| 21 | Q | In 2010 what was your personal net worth? |\n| 22 | A | I didn't have any property. |\n| 23 | Q | Have you ever had property in your name |\n| 24 | | over \\$1 million and by that I include where you |\n| 25 | | owned an interest in a company that interest, |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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77 |\n| 1 | | therefore, contributes to your work? |\n| 2 | A | Before 2000, yes. |\n| 3 | Q | Okay.
What was your net worth in 1999? |\n| 4 | A | I never calculate in detail. |\n| 5 | Q | What would you estimate it as? |\n| 6 | A | Roughly around 100 million. |\n| 7 | Q | And what happened to that \\$100 million |\n| 8 | worth of assets? | |\n| 9 | A | Because in 2000 I got a Hong Kong passport |\n| 10 | | and in China and they don't allow me to have any |\n| 11 | property, asset. | |\n| 12 | Q | Have you abandoned all claims to whatever |\n| 13 | | assets you had in 1999? |\n| 14 | A | Yes. |\n| 15 | Q | Why have you abandoned your claims? |\n| 16 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Abandoned what? |\n| 17 | Q | Your claim to those assets? |\n| 18 | A | Because I was not allowed to have any |\n| 19 | assets in China. | |\n| 20 | Q | If China changed its policy, would you |\n| 21 | | have any right or ability to get those assets back? |\n| 22 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
If you know, you |\n| 23 | can answer. | |\n| 24 | A | I don't know. |\n| 25 | Q | What was your largest asset in 1999? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 | | | | |\n|---------------|----------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------|--|--|--|--|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
78 | | | | |\n| 1 | A | There was the assets from a hotel, equity | | | | |\n| 2 | | interest of a hotel in China. | | | | |\n| 3 | Q | And who holds that interest now? | | | | |\n| 4 | A | Chinese Community Party. | | | | |\n| 5 | Q | Is it held in the name of the Party? | | | | |\n| 6 | A | China only has one autocrat government, | | | | |\n| 7 | | the party, and our family's assets were taken -- | | | | |\n| 8 | were seized by them. | | | | | |\n| 9 | Q | How did your son become wealthy enough to | | | | |\n| 10 | | fund Golden Spring and Lamp Capital? | | | | |\n| 11 | A | Because he started very early to do | | | | |\n| 12 | | investment and also bring brand names to China. | | | | |\n| 13 | Q | Where did he get the money for his | | | | |\n| 14 | investment? | | | | | |\n| 15 | A | I don't know. | | | | |\n| 16 | Q | Ms. Claiborn asked you about agreements | | | | |\n| 17 | | with Golden Spring and you could not identify who | | | | |\n| 18 | | the lawyer was for Golden Spring.
Do you remember | | | | |\n| 19 | that? | | | | | |\n| 20 | A | True. | | | | |\n| 21 | Q | I'd like to try to refresh -- to ask you | | | | |\n| 22 | | potentially to refresh your memory was it a lawyer | | | | |\n| 23 | named Daniel? | | | | | |\n| 24 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He's asking | | | | |\n| 25 | Daniel? | | | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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79 |\n| 1 | Q
Yes, Daniel Pedolsky. |\n| 2 | A
Yes, probably and he used to be Golden |\n| 3 | Spring attorney and my personal attorney. |\n| 4 | Q
Did you execute a waiver of conflict of |\n| 5 | interest with Mr. Pedolsky? |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 7 | that? |\n| 8 | Q
Did you execute a waiver of conflict of |\n| 9 | interest with Attorney Daniel Pedolsky? |\n| 10 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 11 | Q
You mentioned two or three -- or three or |\n| 12 | four agreements with Golden Spring. Can you identify |\n| 13 | each of those agreements? |\n| 14 | A
I'm not sure. |\n| 15 | Q
Can you describe the purpose of each of |\n| 16 | those agreements? |\n| 17 | A
That loan from Golden Spring is to have a |\n| 18 | settlement with Logan Cheng. |\n| 19 | Q
And did you take out a loan to pay the |\n| 20 | lawyers to sue Logan Cheng? |\n| 21 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 22 | Q
And what were the other agreements, other |\n| 23 | than with Mr. Cheng? |\n| 24 | A
From D.C. -- the attorney's office from |\n| 25 | D.C. collect (indiscernible)
I don't remember the |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 81 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 name. MR. WOLMAN: All right. Thank you and this time I have to go but thank you. I'll try to dial in. MS. CLAIBORN: Thank you. Can I ask whoever is on the line if they could mute themselves, because they can hear you typing. All right. Who else would like to ask questions? Mr. Harbach. Go ahead, Mr. Harbach. MR. HARBACH: Thank you. For the record, I'm David Harbach with O'Melveny and Meyers and I represent PAACS. EXAMINATION BY MR. HARBACH: Q Mr. Kwok, I'd like to ask some clarifying questions based on questions that Ms. Claiborn asked you today. Earlier today she asked you if you owned any foreign currency and you said no. She also asked you if you owned any digital currency and you said no. My question is have you ever ordered or directed the purchase of either foreign currency or digital currency on behalf of any entity?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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81 |\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 2 | that? |\n| 3 | MR. HARBACH:
Sure. |\n| 4 | Q
My question is whether you have ordered or |\n| 5 | directed the purchase of any foreign currency or any |\n| 6 | digital currency on behalf of any entity? |\n| 7 | A
What you mean direct? |\n| 8 | Q
Have you directed anyone to purchase |\n| 9 | foreign currency or digital currency? |\n| 10 | A
No. |\n| 11 | Q
Ms. Claiborn asked you a couple of |\n| 12 | questions about access to credit cards and debit |\n| 13 | cards. And I want to make sure that we have your |\n| 14 | answer clear, because she asked you not whether you |\n| 15 | had any credit cards but whether you had any access |\n| 16 | to credit cards. I want to make sure that you |\n| 17 | understand the difference. |\n| 18 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: He's just asking |\n| 19 | why you want to represent Ms. Holley's asked |\n| 20 | questions. |\n| 21 | MR. HARBACH:
I'm just trying to remind |\n| 22 | you of a question she asked you earlier today, sir. |\n| 23 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't |\n| 24 | understand the question. |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Mr. Baldiga's right. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 83 of |\n|---------------|-----------------|---------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 82 |\n| 1 | | There's not a question pending. | | |\n| 2 | Q | | The question is do you understand the | |\n| 3 | | | difference between having a credit card and having | |\n| 4 | | access to a credit card? | | |\n| 5 | A | I believe I don't have. | | |\n| 6 | Q | | You don't understand the difference? | |\n| 7 | A | I don't know much. | | |\n| 8 | Q | Okay. | Well, let me give you an example. | |\n| 9 | | Let's talk about the Maybach. | | |\n| 10 | | | I believe that you represented to us today | |\n| 11 | | | that you have access to the Maybach for | |\n| 12 | transportation. | | Is that correct? | |\n| 13 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 14 | Q | | But I believe it's also your position that | |\n| 15 | | you do not own the Maybach. | Isn't that right? | |\n| 16 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 17 | Q | | In other words, your position is the | |\n| 18 | | Maybach is not yours, right? | | |\n| 19 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 20 | Q | Okay. | So I use that example to illustrate | |\n| 21 | | | the example between owning something and having | |\n| 22 | | access to something. | Does that help you? | Do you |\n| 23 | | understand the difference? | | |\n| 24 | A | Now I understand you. | | |\n| 25 | Q | Okay. | Thank you.
So returning to the | |\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 84 of\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 question about credit cards and debit cards. Do you have access to any credit cards or debit cards, whether or not they are yours? A I don't understand the difference what he means, access like if I use it myself or if I have somebody else use it. Q Well, let's take those one at a time. Let's begin with using it yourself. Has any member of your family ever provided you a credit card or a credit card number to use for yourself? A I never used. Q The other example you mentioned was perhaps a member of your family using a credit card on your behalf. Is that something that has happened? A What do you mean represent me to use? Q I'm asking about whether to your knowledge any member of your family has ever used a credit card or a debit card to purchase things for you? A My son, my daughter, my wife. They all have credit card to buy things for me. THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: The witness did not say that, use the credit card to buy things for me. The witness said that my son, my wife bought things for me.\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | | Page 85 of |\n|---------------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------|-----------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | | 84 |\n| 1 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | | Yeah, they used | |\n| 2 | | their card and they both -- they all have it. | | | They |\n| 3 | | all have the cards. | That's what he said. | | |\n| 4 | | (Repeats interpretation) | | | |\n| 5 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: | | Yes, I did it | |\n| 6 | right. | | | | |\n| 7 | | THE WITNESS: | And so my wife and my son | | |\n| 8 | | and my daughter have their own cards and also other | | | |\n| 9 | | family members use their cards to buy things for me. | | | |\n| 10 | Q | Is that ever at your direction? | | | |\n| 11 | A | No. | | | |\n| 12 | Q | Never. | | | |\n| 13 | A | No. | | | |\n| 14 | Q | Is it at your request? | | | |\n| 15 | A | No. | | | |\n| 16 | Q | Is Yan Ping Wang, the same as Yvette Wang? | | | |\n| 17 | A | Yes. | | | |\n| 18 | Q | Earlier Ms. Claiborn asked you about | | | |\n| 19 | | Golden Spring Hong Kong. | | | |\n| 20 | | You told her that your son owns it. | | | Do |\n| 21 | you recall that? | | | | |\n| 22 | A | Yes. | | | |\n| 23 | Q | My question for you is since when has your | | | |\n| 24 | | son owned Golden Spring Hong Kong? | | | |\n| 25 | A | I don't know. | | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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85 |\n| 1 | Q
Has anyone else besides your son ever |\n| 2 | owned an interest in Golden Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 3 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q
You also said that you didn't remember |\n| 5 | whether you were ever a corporate officer of Golden |\n| 6 | Spring Hong Kong? |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 8 | that one? |\n| 9 | Q
You also said that you did not remember |\n| 10 | whether you were ever a corpora officer of Golden |\n| 11 | Spring Hong Kong?
Does that mean that it is |\n| 12 | possible that you were and you're just not certain? |\n| 13 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 14 | Q
Ms. Claiborn asked you in a few different |\n| 15 | ways about whether you know how Golden Spring New |\n| 16 | York is funded or makes money. |\n| 17 | Since when has Golden Spring been paying |\n| 18 | your personal living expenses? |\n| 19 | A
2015. |\n| 20 | Q
So six or seven years approximately? |\n| 21 | A
Since 2015 and that there was a person |\n| 22 | called Bruno Wu from Mainland China and called my |\n| 23 | family, my son, daughter and wife and so since then |\n| 24 | I start spending money coming from Golden Spring New |\n| 25 | York. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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86 |\n| 1 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't think |\n| 2 | the witness says some. |\n| 3 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
What? |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
I don't think |\n| 5 | the witness said some. |\n| 6 | THE WITNESS:
Not including the son that |\n| 7 | they caught, my wife and daughter and a lot of my |\n| 8 | family members, but not my son. |\n| 9 | Q
So approximately six or seven years that |\n| 10 | Golden Spring has been paying your personal |\n| 11 | expenses.
Is that right? |\n| 12 | A
Yes. |\n| 13 | Q
During those six or seven years did you |\n| 14 | never discuss with any of your family members where |\n| 15 | the money was coming from? |\n| 16 | A
Because a lot of my family members were |\n| 17 | caught by -- were arrested by your client, Bruno Wu, |\n| 18 | and so I have no communication. I cannot communicate |\n| 19 | with him. |\n| 20 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Not exactly. The |\n| 21 | partner of PAACS -- the partner who the counsel was |\n| 22 | represented, PAACS -- partner of PAACS -- |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I don't know. |\n| 24 | He didn't mention anything about PAACS. |\n| 25 | THE WITNESS:
So it's the other attorney |\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 88 of\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
87 |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | representing the client, Bruno Wu, arrested a lot of |\n| 2 | your family members.
Your client's past partner, |\n| 3 | one of the partners, (indiscernible)
Bruno Wu and |\n| 4 | arrested a lot of your family members so you can't |\n| 5 | communicate with them. |\n| 6 | Q
At any time since 2015 have you been in |\n| 7 | communication with your daughter, or your wife, or |\n| 8 | your son? |\n| 9 | A
Yes. |\n| 10 | Q
At any time that you've been in |\n| 11 | communication with any of those three individuals |\n| 12 | did you ever ask them about where Golden Spring's |\n| 13 | money was coming from? |\n| 14 | A
Yes, I asked. |\n| 15 | Q
And who did you ask? |\n| 16 | A
I asked all three of them. |\n| 17 | Q
And what did they say? |\n| 18 | A
They told me because I was in the position |\n| 19 | of being chased so don't ask our own financial |\n| 20 | information.
Don't ask me for anything and we will |\n| 21 | help you to -- we will help you as much as we can. |\n| 22 | Q
When was that? |\n| 23 | A
After 2017. |\n| 24 | Q
How long after 2017? |\n| 25 | A
I don't remember. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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88 |\n| 1 | Q
And when you had this conversation with |\n| 2 | your family were the three of them together or where |\n| 3 | these separate conversations? |\n| 4 | A
Separate. |\n| 5 | Q
And each of the three of them said more or |\n| 6 | less the same thing? |\n| 7 | A
Similar. |\n| 8 | Q
So I want to make sure I have this |\n| 9 | correct.
You asked each of them where Golden |\n| 10 | Springs money was coming from and each of them said |\n| 11 | to you don't ask me about that because -- finish the |\n| 12 | sentence for me. |\n| 13 | A
So you are making a story I don't |\n| 14 | understand. |\n| 15 | Q
I'm trying to ask you to help me |\n| 16 | understand.
I'm trying to understand the reason why |\n| 17 | your family members told you not to ask why your |\n| 18 | family members told you not to ask about where |\n| 19 | Golden Spring got the money. |\n| 20 | MR. BALDIGA:
Let him ask you a question. |\n| 21 | Q
Please tell me why each of your family |\n| 22 | members told you not to ask them about where Golden |\n| 23 | Spring money came from? |\n| 24 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection.
If you know. |\n| 25 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
You're asking |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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89 |\n| 1 | to object the question? |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
I objected. |\n| 3 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, you |\n| 4 | objected. |\n| 5 | MR. BALDIGA:
I permit him to answer if he |\n| 6 | knows. |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 8 | THE WITNESS:
My daughter and wife were |\n| 9 | arrested by his partner and got released 2017 and |\n| 10 | released to New York.
They were tortured |\n| 11 | tremendously by communist party.
The person |\n| 12 | tortured them is this attorney's partner.
They all |\n| 13 | have their own attorneys.
They told me don't ask me |\n| 14 | or communicate with me about their own financial and |\n| 15 | personal information.
Anything you want to do it's |\n| 16 | better go through attorneys. |\n| 17 | This is the doctrine, the thing, my family |\n| 18 | members told them before they came to New York.
I |\n| 19 | just want to tell you it's the meaning, very similar |\n| 20 | meanings, but I can't tell you word by word. |\n| 21 | So I don't want this counsel make any |\n| 22 | stories about my daughter -- about my daughter's |\n| 23 | forgery, giving false testimony.
That kind of |\n| 24 | story. |\n| 25 | The last time when we were here with Ms. |\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 91 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | Holley and he was making false lies and saying I'm |\n|----|-------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | using my Twitter account and saying that the judge |\n| 3 | in New York was communist party and I didn't even |\n| 4 | have a Twitter account. |\n| 5 | MR. HARBACH:
Just so the record's clear |\n| 6 | today is the first that I've uttered a word in |\n| 7 | connection with this litigation in court.
So I |\n| 8 | don't think you're talking about me, sir. |\n| 9 | THE WITNESS:
I was saying last time was |\n| 10 | from attorney in your office.
The prior attorney |\n| 11 | before you called Andy Morse (ph) and was kicked out |\n| 12 | by the judge because he was making false claims for |\n| 13 | five years and was kicked out by the judge.
So the |\n| 14 | law office was always making false claims. |\n| 15 | MR. BALDIGA:
Just answer his question |\n| 16 | because I can't know whether to object unless you're |\n| 17 | just trying to answer his question. |\n| 18 | THE WITNESS:
I didn't talk to my family, |\n| 19 | daughter and wife individually to say the same |\n| 20 | thing. If I say the same thing, same words, that |\n| 21 | will be making false story. |\n| 22 | MR. HARBACH:
I understand. |\n| 23 | THE WITNESS:
You cannot use your |\n| 24 | imagination and put it into my head.
This is why |\n| 25 | the New York South District and the judge was |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 92 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 (indiscernible) by them and they give me the wrong sentencing. UNIDENTIFIED: Can you say that last -- THE WITNESS: Because of their false claims, so that's why the judge from the south district of New York, the judge, gave me the wrong sentencing. THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER: And also the interpreter did not interpret fully counsel's instruction to the witness previously about his objection. MS. CLAIBORN: If you want to repeat it, go ahead. MR. BALDIGA: I think you just have to listen to these questions and answer just these questions. MR. HARBACH: Sorry. Counsel will move to a different topic. BY MR. HARBACH: Q Mr. Kwok, Ms. Claiborn asked you today about a \\$21 million debt that you owe to Golden Spring. She asked you how much of that 21 million was legal fees and your answer was I think most of it. I'd like to know what you meant by most of it.\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 93 of |\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n|---------------|-----------|----------------|---------------------------|------------|\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
92 |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | Did you mean \\$11 million or do you mean close to \\$21 |\n| 2 | million. |\n| 3 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q
Do you still believe that most of it was |\n| 5 | for legal fees? |\n| 6 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 7 | Q
You also mentioned the Logan Cheng |\n| 8 | settlement and that there was money borrowed from |\n| 9 | Golden Spring in connection with that. |\n| 10 | A
Yes. |\n| 11 | Q
How much money was that loan for? |\n| 12 | A
I don't remember exactly.
Probably like |\n| 13 | 200.
Two -- \\$300,000. |\n| 14 | Q
What were the terms of that loan from |\n| 15 | Golden Spring? |\n| 16 | A
I don't remember. |\n| 17 | Q
When Ms. Claiborn asked you if you had |\n| 18 | ever been to Golden Spring's offices in New York, |\n| 19 | you said yes. |\n| 20 | What's the address of those offices? |\n| 21 | A
Yes. |\n| 22 | Q
What is the address of those offices? |\n| 23 | A
64th Street, 162. |\n| 24 | Q
You also mentioned that the last time you |\n| 25 | were there was yesterday and that the reason you |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 94 of |\n|---------------|---------------------|-----------------------------|---------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 93 |\n| 1 | | | went there was to prepare for today's meeting. | |\n| 2 | | | Who did you meet with there? | |\n| 3 | A | My attorney. | | |\n| 4 | Q | | Did you meet with anyone else besides your | |\n| 5 | | | attorney to prepare for today's meeting while you | |\n| 6 | were at the office? | | | |\n| 7 | A | | I don't know what you mean, the other | |\n| 8 | people. | | | |\n| 9 | Q | | Well, did you meet with anyone who works | |\n| 10 | for Golden Spring? | | | |\n| 11 | A | Yes, I met Yvonne Wang. | | |\n| 12 | Q | And this was yesterday? | | |\n| 13 | A | Yes, I met her yesterday. | | |\n| 14 | Q | | Did you ask some questions of her | |\n| 15 | yesterday? | | | |\n| 16 | A | No. | | |\n| 17 | Q | | And tell me about your conversation with | |\n| 18 | Ms. Wang? | | | |\n| 19 | A | What do you mean? | | |\n| 20 | Q | | Well, I'd like to know what you talked | |\n| 21 | about with her. | | | |\n| 22 | A | | I ask her to arrange the food to eat and | |\n| 23 | the coffee. | | | |\n| 24 | Q | Is that all? | | |\n\nA And also we talked about how to abolish\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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94 |\n| 1 | communist party. | |\n| 2 | Q | I want to make sure I get this right. I |\n| 3 | think you said -- | |\n| 4 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Excuse me. Can I hear the |\n| 5 | last thing again. | |\n| 6 | | THE WITNESS:
We talk about how to abolish |\n| 7 | communist party. | |\n| 8 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Thank you. |\n| 9 | Q | Ms. Wang is an officer of Golden Spring, |\n| 10 | correct? | |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | And you directed her to bring coffee, |\n| 13 | right? | |\n| 14 | A | No, I didn't direct her. I'm just hoping |\n| 15 | | her to bring some coffee. |\n| 16 | Q | You were hoping or helping? |\n| 17 | A | Help. |\n| 18 | Q | You were helping.
Because my question to |\n| 19 | | you was what you talked about with Ms. Wang.
And I |\n| 20 | | thought you said you asked her to bring some coffee |\n| 21 | | or maybe even told her to bring some coffee. |\n| 22 | A | No, your attorney office -- you attorney |\n| 23 | | office making and imagining things again. |\n| 24 | Q | I'll ask the question again. |\n| 25 | | MR. BALDIGA:
Please ask a question. Don't |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 96 of |\n|---------------|-------------------|------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 95 |\n| 1 | | put words in his mouth. | | |\n| 2 | Q | What did you discuss with Ms. Wang | | |\n| 3 | yesterday? | | | |\n| 4 | A | Do you want me to talk about in detail? I | | |\n| 5 | | can talk about this for hours. | | |\n| 6 | Q | Well, no, not if the detail concerns how | | |\n| 7 | | to overthrow the Chinese Communist Party. So I'll be | | |\n| 8 | more precise. | | | |\n| 9 | A | So you don't want us to abolish Chinese | | |\n| 10 | Community Party. | Our job is to abolish Chinese | | |\n| 11 | Communist Party. | | | |\n| 12 | | MR. BALDIGA: | Just answer the question. | |\n| 13 | | THE WITNESS: | You don't have a question. | |\n| 14 | | You're just directing something. | | |\n| 15 | Q | Sometimes I speak in segments to allow the | | |\n| 16 | | interpreter to translate. | | |\n| 17 | | MR. BALDIGA: | I think it would be helpful | |\n| 18 | | if you just ask question and then the witness -- | | |\n| 19 | | I'll instruct him to answer your questions. | | That |\n| 20 | would be helpful. | | | |\n| 21 | Q | Did you discuss with Yvette [sic] | | |\n| 22 | | yesterday anything related to preparing for the | | |\n| 23 | meeting today? | | | |\n| 24 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 25 | Q | What did you discuss? | | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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96 |\n| 1 | A | I ask her to bring those documents here. |\n| 2 | Q | Anything else? |\n| 3 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q | When was Lamp Capital created? |\n| 5 | A | I don't know. |\n| 6 | Q | Why was Lamp Capital created? |\n| 7 | A | I don't know. |\n| 8 | Q | Who created Lamp Capital? |\n| 9 | A | My son. |\n| 10 | Q | How do you know that? |\n| 11 | A | Because I borrow money from my son to pay |\n| 12 | attorney fee. | |\n| 13 | Q | The question is how do you know that your |\n| 14 | | son created Lamp Capital? |\n| 15 | A | Because my son said it. |\n| 16 | Q | He told you himself. |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | Did he ask for any advice from you about |\n| 19 | | whether to create Lamp Capital? |\n| 20 | A | No. |\n| 21 | Q | Did he ask you your opinion on whether he |\n| 22 | | should create Lamp Capital? |\n| 23 | A | No. |\n| 24 | Q | Did he tell you why he was creating Lamp |\n| 25 | Capital? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 98 of |\n|---------------|-------------|----------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------|------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 97 |\n| 1 | A | No. | | |\n| 2 | Q | | When you were talking about your | |\n| 3 | | | malpractice claim against Boise Schiller, you | |\n| 4 | | | mentioned someone you kept referring to as he. I'd | |\n| 5 | | like to know who that person is? | | |\n| 6 | A | | I don't know what you mean. | |\n| 7 | Q | | Yes, that was a bad question. I apologize. | |\n| 8 | | | You stated that there was someone who gave | |\n| 9 | | | false documents to the court without your | |\n| 10 | permission. | | That this person threatened your | |\n| 11 | | | family, that this person threatened you after | |\n| 12 | | | drinking and that this person brought lots of loss | |\n| 13 | | | to you and your family, including not providing | |\n| 14 | | | translated documents before presenting them to the | |\n| 15 | judge. | | | |\n| 16 | | | My question is who is that person? | |\n| 17 | A | Schiller. | The Attorney Schiller. | |\n| 18 | Q | | So Mr. Schiller of the Boise Schiller law | |\n| 19 | firm. | Have I got that right? | | |\n| 20 | A | Yes. | | |\n| 21 | Q | | Thank you. Do you have an understanding of | |\n| 22 | | | what business Lamp Capital is engaged in, if any? | |\n| 23 | A | No. | | |\n| 24 | Q | Different subject. | You said several times | |\n| 25 | | | today in connection with your answers that the | |\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 99 of\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
98 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | people behind me have done certain things. |\n| 2 | Who are you talking about? |\n| 3 | A
One person behind me, there is a boss |\n| 4 | called Bruno Wu.
He paid the case that -- the rape |\n| 5 | case from (indiscernible)
rape case.
Also there is |\n| 6 | a creditor here and that also was paid by Bruno Wu. |\n| 7 | That attorney fee was paid by Bruno Wu.
And Bruno |\n| 8 | Wu is also his partner and he invested \\$800 million. |\n| 9 | Bruno Wu's partner is also (indiscernible)
previous |\n| 10 | officer and they were investigating and they |\n| 11 | combined a partner with them to investigate my case. |\n| 12 | So April 18, 2017, so this (indiscernible) |\n| 13 | start suing me, bring the lawsuit.
Within this 24 |\n| 14 | hours Bruno Wu is sending me the red note and they |\n| 15 | start bringing the lawsuit. |\n| 16 | MR. HARBACH:
Can I stop -- |\n| 17 | THE WITNESS: The Chinese Communist Party |\n| 18 | stopped the interview, the VOA interview with me. |\n| 19 | They happened at the same time. |\n| 20 | MR. HARBACH:
Or I can let him go. |\n| 21 | THE WITNESS:
All the documents made by |\n| 22 | this attorney firm were all false.
They provide a |\n| 23 | false document to the South District of New York |\n| 24 | court.
They even false claim on my daughter's |\n| 25 | yacht.
The boat is mine.
They sought the judge |\n\n#### Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 100 of\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 from the South District Court and I file the bankrupt -- personal bankruptcy case twice and the day -- they (indiscernible) twice including Ms. Holley. And Ms. Holley was present. The first time when Ms. Holley was present in the court and they false testified saying -- and they said my daughter was giving false testimony for the Sherry bankruptcy case because my daughter never participated in that case. And Ms. Holley was there, was present the second co date and Ms. Holley was there also. The attorney from the firm was telling the judge and they said that I used the Twitter account to -- and they said on the Twitter and I was saying on the Twitter the south district judge was communist party member. You can see here all the people behind me and one is Bruno Wu and one person paid in many cases -- MR. HARBACH: I'd like to ask another question. BY MR. HARBACH: Q Are you aware one way or the other whether your bankruptcy counsel, the Brown Rudnick law firm,\n\nhas ever previously represented Bruno Wu?\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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100 |\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can I take a |\n| 2 | little break?
I just can't concentrate as much. |\n| 3 | Just too much.
Can I take a break? |\n| 4 | MS. CLAIBORN:
Can I ask you to ask that |\n| 5 | question and then we'll take a break? |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yes.
Can you |\n| 7 | repeat that question? |\n| 8 | MR. HARBACH:
I'd be happy to. |\n| 9 | Q
Are you aware one way or the other of |\n| 10 | whether your bankruptcy counsel, the Brown Rudnick |\n| 11 | law firm, previously represented Bruno Wu? |\n| 12 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Represent |\n| 13 | somebody else you said? |\n| 14 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes.
Bruno Wu. |\n| 15 | A
No. |\n| 16 | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to take a short |\n| 17 | break. We're going to be back here at 2:45. |\n| 18 | (Break) |\n| 19 | MS. CLAIBORN:
All right.
We are back on |\n| 20 | the record after a short break. |\n| 21 | Mr. Harbach, the floor is yours. |\n| 22 | MR. HARBACH:
Thank you. |\n| 23 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 24 | Q
Ms. Kwok, among the documents in front of |\n| 25 | you, document 78 filed in this case. |\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 102 of\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
101 |\n|----|------------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Which document? |\n| 2 | This one? |\n| 3 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. My apologies. Counsel |\n| 4 | advises me that your copies are not stamped. |\n| 5 | Q
I'm talking about your official from 106. |\n| 6 | So my question for you starts on page 9, which |\n| 7 | contains a heading that says Schedule D, creditors |\n| 8 | who have claimed (indiscernible)
by the property. |\n| 9 | Are you with me? |\n| 10 | You checked the box yes.
And were |\n| 11 | directed to Schedule D, so that's where I would like |\n| 12 | you to flip to, please.
And it's at page 18. |\n| 13 | MR. BALDIGA:
What's the title?
He can |\n| 14 | maybe find it better with the title. |\n| 15 | MR. HARBACH:
Okay. It's the little chart |\n| 16 | that is Schedule D, which is a list of creditors |\n| 17 | with secured claims. |\n| 18 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 19 | Q
Mr. Kwok, you'll see that there are five |\n| 20 | separate entries for Golden Spring New York Limited. |\n| 21 | The data in each column is identical for all five |\n| 22 | rows. |\n| 23 | So my question is why are there five |\n| 24 | identical entries on this schedule? |\n| 25 | The question is why are there five |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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102 |\n| 1 | identical entries on this schedule? |\n| 2 | A
I don't know what that means five -- |\n| 3 | Q
Well, each row is exactly the same.
And |\n| 4 | I'm just asking why there are five rows with the |\n| 5 | same information? |\n| 6 | A
I don't know. |\n| 7 | Q
Among that documents that you filed were |\n| 8 | some specific notes and one of those notes discusses |\n| 9 | the residence on Taconic Road. |\n| 10 | MR. HARBACH:
And for counsel I'm at |\n| 11 | document 77, page 4. |\n| 12 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Which page? |\n| 13 | MR. HARBACH:
Page 4. |\n| 14 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
84? |\n| 15 | MR. HARBACH:
No, Page 4. |\n| 16 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, page 4. |\n| 17 | Okay. |\n| 18 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 19 | Q
My question really isn't so much about the |\n| 20 | exact test as it is the substance. |\n| 21 | So first question, is it true that all expenses |\n| 22 | related to the Taconic Road House are paid directly |\n| 23 | by family and family controlled enterprises? |\n| 24 | A
Yes. |\n| 25 | Q
Okay.
Which family members? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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103 |\n| 1 | A | My wife, sometimes by my son. |\n| 2 | Q | Which family controlled enterprises? |\n| 3 | A | Which country -- my wife. |\n| 4 | Q | Your wife's not an enterprise.
I'm trying |\n| 5 | | to ask which family controlled enterprises pay the |\n| 6 | | expenses for the Taconic House? |\n| 7 | A | Greenwich LLC. |\n| 8 | Q | Okay.
Incidentally, how do you know that |\n| 9 | | your wife and sometimes you son pay these expenses? |\n| 10 | A | Because I live there. |\n| 11 | Q | Do you observe them pay the expenses? |\n| 12 | A | Yes. |\n| 13 | Q | Is that ever at your request? |\n| 14 | A | I don't remember I request anything. |\n| 15 | Q | Does Greenwich Land LLC -- yes Greenwich |\n| 16 | | Land LLC own any other real estate besides 373 |\n| 17 | Taconic Road? | |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q | Do you know anything about the property |\n| 20 | | located at 33 Ferncliff in Cos Cob, Connecticut? |\n| 21 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 22 | that? | |\n| 23 | | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. |\n| 24 | Q | 33 Ferncliff in Cos Cob, Connecticut. |\n| 25 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
31, right? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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104 |\n| 1 | | MR. HARBACH:
No, 33. |\n| 2 | A | Yes, now I remember it. It's also owned by |\n| 3 | my wife's company. | |\n| 4 | Q | That being Greenwich Land? |\n| 5 | A | Maybe. |\n| 6 | Q | Do you know? |\n| 7 | A | I'm not sure. |\n| 8 | Q | Have you ever been to 33 Ferncliff? |\n| 9 | A | Yes. |\n| 10 | Q | How recently? |\n| 11 | A | No.
Not recently. |\n| 12 | Q | Do you know when Greenwich Land purchased |\n| 13 | 33 Ferncliff? | |\n| 14 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 15 | Q | Do you know approximately how much money |\n| 16 | it cost? | |\n| 17 | A | Probably more that \\$1 million. |\n| 18 | Q | Does \\$1.37 million sound about right? |\n| 19 | A | I'm not sure. |\n| 20 | Q | And does the approximate purchase date of |\n| 21 | | September, 2019 sound about right to you? |\n| 22 | A | Not sure. |\n| 23 | Q | Turning back to 373 Taconic for a moment. |\n| 24 | | How much was that property purchased for? |\n| 25 | A | Probably 400 to 500,000. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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105 |\n| 1 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
No, no, no. |\n| 2 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
4 to 5 million. |\n| 3 | I'm sorry. | |\n| 4 | Q | Approximate time of purchase of 373 |\n| 5 | | Taconic, if you know? |\n| 6 | A | I don't know. |\n| 7 | Q | Have you ever resided at 33 Ferncliff? |\n| 8 | A | No. |\n| 9 | Q | Do you know whether anyone currently lives |\n| 10 | there? | |\n| 11 | A | Before there is another comrade maybe, you |\n| 12 | | know, for disjoined Chinese Communist Party and he |\n| 13 | was to live there. | |\n| 14 | Q | How long ago? |\n| 15 | A | Probably one to two years ago. |\n| 16 | Q | DO you remember that person's name? |\n| 17 | A | Yes. |\n| 18 | Q | What is it? |\n| 19 | A | Wong Din Gong (ph). |\n| 20 | Q | Does anyone currently live there, if you |\n| 21 | know? | |\n| 22 | A | I don't know. |\n| 23 | Q | Talking about 373 Taconic, where did the |\n| 24 | | money come from to purchase that property? |\n| 25 | A | I don't know. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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106 |\n| 1 | Q | Do you know whether the house was |\n| 2 | | purchased with cash or financing? |\n| 3 | A | I don't know. |\n| 4 | Q | Same questions for 33 Ferncliff.
Do you |\n| 5 | | know where the money came from to purchase that |\n| 6 | house? | |\n| 7 | A | I heard it was purchased by cash. |\n| 8 | Q | From whom -- sorry. From whom did you hear |\n| 9 | that? | |\n| 10 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 11 | Q | Do you know where that money came from? |\n| 12 | A | I don't know. |\n| 13 | Q | Do you know what Saraca Media Group is? |\n| 14 | A | Saraca? |\n| 15 | Q | Saraca. |\n| 16 | A | Saraca Media Group.
I do. |\n| 17 | Q | What is Sirraca Media Group? |\n| 18 | A | Just Saraca.
It's a company. |\n| 19 | Q | What kind of company? |\n| 20 | A | I'm not sure. |\n| 21 | Q | Have you ever had any relationship with |\n| 22 | Saraca personally? | |\n| 23 | A | No. |\n| 24 | Q | Do you know anything about the type of |\n| 25 | | business that Saraca conducts? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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107 |\n| 1 | A | I remember they are related to GTV Media |\n| 2 | | platform, or they invested on the GTV Media |\n| 3 | platform. | |\n| 4 | Q | How do you know that? |\n| 5 | A | Because I was their consultant, who owned |\n| 6 | the consultant. | And also I was the GTV host.
And |\n| 7 | | also this is one of the input and platform for |\n| 8 | | disjoined communist party. |\n| 9 | Q | When you said you were a consultant a |\n| 10 | | moment ago was that for Saraca or for GTV? |\n| 11 | A | GTV. |\n| 12 | Q | Has Saraca ever been -- ever had the 162 |\n| 13 | | East 64th Street address associated with it? |\n| 14 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Which address? |\n| 15 | | Can you repeat that one. |\n| 16 | Q | Yes.
162 East 64th Street.
The question |\n| 17 | | is whether Saraca has ever been associated with that |\n| 18 | address? | |\n| 19 | A | I don't know. |\n| 20 | Q | That is the family office address, |\n| 21 | correct? | |\n| 22 | A | It's one of them. |\n| 23 | Q | Where are the other ones? |\n| 24 | A | I don't know. |\n| 25 | Q | Are there any others in New York City? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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108 |\n| 1 | A | I just want to clarify.
Golden Spring is |\n| 2 | | one of the companies in this building, 162. |\n| 3 | Q | Understood and thank you. |\n| 4 | | We've referred to the family office during |\n| 5 | | your questioning and I just want to be clear.
When |\n| 6 | | we talk about the family office are we referring to |\n| 7 | | that address on East 64th Street? |\n| 8 | A | Yes. |\n| 9 | Q | Has GTV ever been associated with the |\n| 10 | | family office address? |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q | Who owns Saraca? |\n| 13 | A | My son. |\n| 14 | Q | Since when? |\n| 15 | A | I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q | Does Saraca currently exist? |\n| 17 | A | I don't know. |\n| 18 | Q | Do you have any idea how many -- do you |\n| 19 | | know anything about the value of Saraca's assets? |\n| 20 | A | I don't know. |\n| 21 | Q | Do you know anything about payments Saraca |\n| 22 | has made to GTV? | |\n| 23 | A | No, I don't know. |\n| 24 | Q | Has your wife ever told you about any |\n| 25 | | multi-million dollar payments from Saraca to |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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109 |\n| 1 | Greenwich Land? | |\n| 2 | A | I don't know. |\n| 3 | Q | You don't know whether he's ever told you |\n| 4 | | or you don't know about the payments? |\n| 5 | A | She never told me and I don't even know |\n| 6 | how much. | |\n| 7 | Q | Do you know a company called Ziba Limited, |\n| 8 | Z-I-B-A? | |\n| 9 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Ziba, Z-I-B-A? |\n| 10 | | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q | I'm sorry if I've already asked this. |\n| 13 | | What is the relationship, if any, between Saraca and |\n| 14 | GTV? | |\n| 15 | A | Saraca is the investor for GTV. |\n| 16 | Q | Do you know how much money Saraca invested |\n| 17 | in GTV? | |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q | When was GTV founded? |\n| 20 | A | 2020.
Maybe 2019.
Not very sure. |\n| 21 | Q | Do you know the names of any of the |\n| 22 | | officers or directors of Saraca? |\n| 23 | A | I don't know. |\n| 24 | Q | Do you know whether Yvette Wang is an |\n| 25 | | officer or director of Saraca? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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110 |\n| 1 | A | I don't know. |\n| 2 | Q | Do you know someone called Hong Chung |\n| 3 | Wang? | |\n| 4 | A | Yes. |\n| 5 | Q | Who is that? |\n| 6 | A | He's my partner and also comrade for |\n| 7 | | disjoined Communist Party. |\n| 8 | Q | Is he a friend of yours? |\n| 9 | A | Friend, comrade and a partner. |\n| 10 | Q | What do you mean by partner? |\n| 11 | A | Because we had a business corporation. |\n| 12 | Q | Tell me about that. |\n| 13 | A | Well, I don't remember the name of that |\n| 14 | company. | It's a company for investigating Communist |\n| 15 | | Party in USA doing money laundering and committing |\n| 16 | crimes. | |\n| 17 | Q | Was it a for profit company? |\n| 18 | A | I don't know. |\n| 19 | Q | You don't know? |\n| 20 | A | I don't know. |\n| 21 | Q | What was the name of the company? |\n| 22 | A | I don't remember when getting to English. |\n| 23 | | I don't remember the name. |\n| 24 | Q | Approximately what time frame where you |\n| 25 | | partners with Hong Chung Wang in this company? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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111 |\n| 1 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 2 | Q | Within the last three years? |\n| 3 | A | It must be more than three years ago. |\n| 4 | Q | More than ten years? |\n| 5 | A | No. |\n| 6 | Q | Did Hong Chung Wang ever have any |\n| 7 | | connection to Saraca? |\n| 8 | A | I don't know. |\n| 9 | Q | Was he ever an officer or director of |\n| 10 | Saraca? | |\n| 11 | A | I don't know. |\n| 12 | Q | What does the G in GTV stand for? |\n| 13 | A | God.
The Goal, like in -- G-O-A-L. |\n| 14 | Q | The English word \"goal\"? |\n| 15 | A | Yea.
Goal or God. |\n| 16 | Q | Okay.
How long have you known Hong Chong |\n| 17 | Wang? | |\n| 18 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 19 | Q | More than ten years? |\n| 20 | A | Roughly. |\n| 21 | Q | And do you still consider him a friend |\n| 22 | today? | |\n| 23 | A | Yes. |\n| 24 | | MR. HARBACH:
Just a moment, please. |\n| 25 | Q | There's been many questions today about |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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112 |\n| 1 | | Golden Spring funding your living expenses. |\n| 2 | | Is it correct that as far as your living |\n| 3 | | expenses are concerned that none of that is expected |\n| 4 | to be repaid? | |\n| 5 | A | Yes, true. |\n| 6 | Q | And so those monies are not the subject of |\n| 7 | | any formal agreement, correct? |\n| 8 | A | No. |\n| 9 | Q | And those monies essentially then are a |\n| 10 | | gift to you, correct? |\n| 11 | A | Yes. |\n| 12 | Q | What's the Rule of Law Foundation? |\n| 13 | A | What does that mean? |\n| 14 | Q | The question is what is it? |\n| 15 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
The Rule of Law |\n| 16 | Foundation? | |\n| 17 | | MR. HARBACH:
Yes, sir. |\n| 18 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 19 | it. | Can you ask it another way? |\n| 20 | Q | There's an entity called -- |\n| 21 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh. |\n| 22 | Q | -- the Rule of Law Foundation. |\n| 23 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay. |\n| 24 | | MR. HARBACH:
I'll hopefully save some |\n| 25 | | time by just asking this question instead. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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113 |\n| 1 | Q | Are you familiar with the Rule of Law |\n| 2 | Foundation? | |\n| 3 | A | Yes. |\n| 4 | Q | Were you involved in its establishment? |\n| 5 | A | Yes. |\n| 6 | Q | Did you contribute any money to it when it |\n| 7 | was formed? | |\n| 8 | A | Not myself. |\n| 9 | Q | Did you direct any entity to contribute to |\n| 10 | | the Rule of Law Foundation? |\n| 11 | A | Suggestion in a direct and suggesting any |\n| 12 | difference -- | |\n| 13 | Q | If there was a suggestion, please tell me |\n| 14 | | it was a suggestion. |\n| 15 | A | I didn't direct anybody or order anybody. |\n| 16 | | I just always suggest people to make donations for |\n| 17 | the Foundation. | |\n| 18 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
As an |\n| 19 | | interpreter, I think that if the witness is asking |\n| 20 | | the interpreter questions, the interpreter should |\n| 21 | | interpret the question asked by the witness instead |\n| 22 | | of answer that question. |\n| 23 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I can answer |\n| 24 | anything. | |\n| 25 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
The witness said |\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 115 of\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
114 |\n|----|----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | are you talking about the (indiscernible)
-- |\n| 2 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
That's why I |\n| 3 | relayed the questions to the attorney. |\n| 4 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
You answer him |\n| 5 | yes, and then you say that. |\n| 6 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, for God's |\n| 7 | sake.
I didn't say -- did I miss anything? |\n| 8 | (Interpretation.) |\n| 9 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Okay.
No |\n| 10 | question.
He said no question was not answered. |\n| 11 | BY MR. HARBACH: |\n| 12 | Q
Did you ever suggested to any of your |\n| 13 | family members that they donate to the Rule of Law |\n| 14 | Foundation? |\n| 15 | A
Yes, I did suggest. |\n| 16 | Q
Did any of your family members or the |\n| 17 | family controlled enterprises contribute money to |\n| 18 | the Rule of Law Foundation? |\n| 19 | A
Yes. |\n| 20 | Q
How much money? |\n| 21 | A
For cash there is one -- over \\$1 million. |\n| 22 | From Hong Kong, Japan and Mainland -- in |\n| 23 | China and all combined it should be more than 30 |\n| 24 | million. |\n| 25 | Q
And just focusing for the moment on |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 115 |\n| 1 | | contributions from your family at your suggestion. | |\n| 2 | | Approximately, how much money is that? | |\n| 3 | A | I don't know the details.
Because of | |\n| 4 | | security reasons they don't want me to know. | |\n| 5 | Q | Did you say a moment ago that your family | |\n| 6 | | contributed over a million dollars? | |\n| 7 | A | One million cash is in New York here. | |\n| 8 | Q | When was that? | |\n| 9 | A | I don't remember. | |\n| 10 | Q | Is the reason -- well, let me ask it this | |\n| 11 | way. | Did you suggest an amount to your family | |\n| 12 | | members that they should contribute to the Rule of | |\n| 13 | Law Foundation? | | |\n| 14 | A | I want them to donate the more the better. | |\n| 15 | Q | Is that what you told them? | |\n| 16 | A | Yes. | |\n| 17 | Q | Do you know whether the Rule of Law | |\n| 18 | | Foundation is associated with the family office | |\n\naddress on 64th Street?\n\nA Yes.\n\n Q Did you ever make a \\$100 million donation to the Rule of Law Foundation in November of 2018? THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Can you repeat that again?\n\nQ Did you ever make a \\$100 million donation\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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116 |\n| 1 | to the Rule of Law Foundation in November, 2018? |\n| 2 | A
No. In the live stream like I want -- |\n| 3 | tried to collect the funds, in the live stream show. |\n| 4 | Q
Did you ever -- |\n| 5 | MR. BALDIGA:
Wait.
Was that his whole |\n| 6 | answer? |\n| 7 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah. Something |\n| 8 | wrong? |\n| 9 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Not quite |\n| 10 | exactly what the witness said. |\n| 11 | (Indiscernible)
broadcasting is okay. |\n| 12 | Live stream is okay.
But collect money -- |\n| 13 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Asking for |\n| 14 | donation, right? |\n| 15 | (Interpretation) |\n| 16 | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Raise -- |\n| 17 | THE WITNESS:
Raising money, raise |\n| 18 | donations.
Yeah, in the live stream broadcast |\n| 19 | thing, or whatever, you know, asking for donations |\n| 20 | to -- you know, to raise funds, to raise money. |\n| 21 | Q
Did you ever promise to donate \\$1 billion |\n| 22 | to the Rule of Law Fund? |\n| 23 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
10 billion you |\n| 24 | said? |\n| 25 | MR. HARBACH:
No, sir.
1 billion. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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117 |\n| 1 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, one |\n| 2 | billion. | |\n| 3 | A | I don't remember. I don't remember. |\n| 4 | Q | Do you mean that it's possible that you |\n| 5 | made that promise? | |\n| 6 | A | So we could reach that goal if we combine |\n| 7 | | the organizations all over the world. |\n| 8 | Q | Understand.
And it's a simple question. I |\n| 9 | | just don't know the answer. |\n| 10 | | Did you yourself ever promise to donate \\$1 |\n| 11 | | billion to the Rule of Law fund? |\n| 12 | A | In the past five years I did the live |\n| 13 | | stream over 5,000 times.
Some of the live stream |\n| 14 | | could have reached four or five hours.
It's hard |\n| 15 | | for me to remember every sentence I said. |\n| 16 | Q | Well, I understand that, but I'm only |\n| 17 | | asking about one issue.
And it is whether you ever |\n| 18 | | promised publicly, or privately or anyhow to donate |\n| 19 | | \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Fund? |\n| 20 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
He did not say |\n| 21 | invest. | |\n| 22 | | MR. HARBACH:
Donate |\n| 23 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Yeah, donate. |\n| 24 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 25 | Q | I'll ask this one one more time. |\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 119 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n| 1 | Are you saying that it is possible that |\n|----|--------------------------------------------------------|\n| 2 | you made such a promise.
You just can't be sure? |\n| 3 | A
In front of Ms. Holley I wouldn't say |\n| 4 | anything is possible but this is a very serious |\n| 5 | issue.
Now they start the scheme again. |\n| 6 | Q
Well, this isn't what did you have for |\n| 7 | breakfast three days ago.
This is did you promise |\n| 8 | to donate \\$1 billion and if the answer is you don't |\n| 9 | know, that's okay. |\n| 10 | MR. BALDIGA:
I think that's what the |\n| 11 | answer has been. |\n| 12 | MR. HARBACH:
No, the answer has been I |\n| 13 | don't remember. |\n| 14 | MR. BALDIGA:
Don't remember. |\n| 15 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes, sir. That's a little |\n| 16 | different. |\n| 17 | Q
So the answer might be no, but you're not |\n| 18 | saying no.
You're saying you don't remember. |\n| 19 | A
I said it three times, I don't remember. |\n| 20 | MR. BALDIGA:
There's no question -- |\n| 21 | A
Because in the past five years |\n| 22 | (indiscernible)
always making these kind of answers |\n| 23 | for me so that's why the judge from the South |\n| 24 | District were fooled by you and you started again -- |\n| 25 | Q
I'll move on. |\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 120 of\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 A In the South District court I only met judge 20 seconds. I didn't say one sentence within this five years and I was fined a total about \\$300 million because that's what they did. MR. BALDIGA: All right. Let's stop it. Let's wait for a question and we'll answer the question. MR. HARBACH: Bill, I appreciate your patience. I'll move on. MR. BALDIGA: Translate what I said, please. THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER: Can you repeat that? Everybody's saying at the time. MR. BALDIGA: Ask a question and he'll answer a question. Q Have you made any donations to the Rule of Law Foundation in the last two years? A Myself, right? Q Yes, sir. A No. Q Have you suggested to any of your family that they make donations to the Rule of Law Foundation within the last two years? A I don't remember. Q Would you ever have made a promise to\n\n# Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 121 of\n\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022
120 |\n|----|-----------------------------------------------------|\n| 1 | donate \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Foundation if |\n| 2 | you did not actually have that money? |\n| 3 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection to form. |\n| 4 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't get |\n| 5 | it.
Can you repeat one more time. |\n| 6 | Q
Would you have ever made a promise to |\n| 7 | donate \\$1 billion to the Rule of Law Foundation if |\n| 8 | you did not actually have that money. |\n| 9 | MR. BALDIGA:
And I objected. |\n| 10 | MR. HARBACH:
And then Bill objected. |\n| 11 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
He said are you |\n| 12 | -- want to sentencing me to death sentence? |\n| 13 | Q
Approximately how much is the Lady May |\n| 14 | worth? |\n| 15 | A
I don't know. |\n| 16 | Q
Over the years that you have been aboard |\n| 17 | the Lady May, approximately how many times have you |\n| 18 | invited friends to join you? |\n| 19 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Can you repeat |\n| 20 | that question one more time? |\n| 21 | MR. HARBACH:
Yes. |\n| 22 | Q
Over the years that you had been aboard |\n| 23 | the Lady May, approximately how many times have you |\n| 24 | invited friends out to join you? |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Hold on. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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121 |\n| 1 | MR. HARBACH:
Sorry, Bill. |\n| 2 | MR. BALDIGA:
David, you have a deposition |\n| 3 | on the Lady May issues coming up.
You can choose |\n| 4 | today or then.
Either one is fine. |\n| 5 | MR. HARBACH:
That's a fair point.
I'll |\n| 6 | move on. |\n| 7 | MR. BALDIGA:
Okay.
No question. |\n| 8 | MR. HARBACH:
If I could direct counsel's |\n| 9 | attention again to document 77.
And I want to focus |\n| 10 | on question 19. |\n| 11 | Q
Mr. Kwok, let me know when you're read |\n| 12 | that question. It's no. 19. |\n| 13 | (Pause.) |\n| 14 | A
Finished. |\n| 15 | Q
Okay.
So for the benefit of the record, |\n| 16 | the question says within ten years before you filed |\n| 17 | for bankruptcy did you transfer any property to a |\n| 18 | self settled trust or similar device of which you |\n| 19 | are a beneficiary? |\n| 20 | A
No. |\n| 21 | Q
And that is indeed what you checked on the |\n| 22 | form.
My question for you is if you turn -- if |\n| 23 | changed the word you to a family member as the |\n| 24 | beneficiary, what would the answer be? |\n| 25 | MR. BALDIGA:
Objection. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
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122 |\n| 1 | A
I cannot answer questions with if. |\n| 2 | Q
I'll ask it a different way. |\n| 3 | MR. HARBACH:
And, Jack, I'll ask you to |\n| 4 | bear with me. |\n| 5 | Q
Within ten years before you filed for |\n| 6 | bankruptcy did you transfer any property to a self |\n| 7 | settled trust or similar device of which a member of |\n| 8 | your family is a beneficiary? |\n| 9 | A
No. |\n| 10 | Q
Sticking with that same document going |\n| 11 | forward to question 27.
Just let me know when |\n| 12 | you're read it, sir. |\n| 13 | (Pause.) |\n| 14 | A
Okay. I'm finished. |\n| 15 | Q
So you see there you have checked the box |\n| 16 | next to the word yes.
And then the instructions say |\n| 17 | check all that apply above and fill in the details |\n| 18 | below for each business. |\n| 19 | MR. HARBACH:
Do you see where that is, |\n| 20 | Jack? |\n| 21 | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
I didn't see |\n| 22 | that. |\n| 23 | MR. HARBACH:
Next -- Holley can show you. |\n| 24 | (Pause.) |\n| 25 | MR. HARBACH:
So I was just pointing out |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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123 |\n| 1 | | to the witness -- for the benefit of the translator |\n| 2 | I'll say it again. | |\n| 3 | Q | Next to the box that is checked yes, the |\n| 4 | | instructions say check all that apply above and fill |\n| 5 | | in the details below for each business.
None of the |\n| 6 | | boxes above is checked and that's my question. |\n| 7 | | Which box or boxes should be checked for |\n| 8 | | each of those three entities that you have listed? |\n| 9 | A | I cannot determine which one. |\n| 10 | Q | Is that something you would need more time |\n| 11 | | to figure out or you just don't know the answer? |\n| 12 | A | I could answer one by one. |\n| 13 | Q | Okay. Let's do that.
Let's start with |\n| 14 | Genever. | |\n| 15 | A | Which Genever? |\n| 16 | Q | Well, the one that's listed is Genever |\n| 17 | | Holdings Corporation. |\n| 18 | | Which of those boxes would you check for |\n| 19 | | Genever Holdings Corporation, if any? |\n| 20 | A | It was one time -- it was a member of LLC. |\n| 21 | | The above don't apply and should transfer to no. 12 |\n| 22 | -- transfer to 12. | |\n| 23 | | It used to be an LLC. |\n| 24 | Q | Are you saying that you would check the |\n| 25 | | box for a member of an LLC but it should be in the |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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124 |\n| 1 | past tense? | |\n| 2 | A | Yes.
Used to be. |\n| 3 | Q | Do any of the other boxes apply to your |\n| 4 | | relationship to Genever Holdings Corporation? |\n| 5 | A | The last row seems like appropriate for |\n| 6 | | me. I'm not very sure. |\n| 7 | Q | The last row being an owner of at least |\n| 8 | | five percent of the voting or equity securities of a |\n| 9 | corporation? | |\n| 10 | A | I owned 50 percent for a very short period |\n| 11 | of time. | |\n| 12 | Q | Okay.
What about for Shiny Time? |\n| 13 | A | Shiny Time already went away. |\n| 14 | Q | I understand.
When it was in existence, |\n| 15 | | which of those boxes was accurate? |\n| 16 | A | Number one. |\n| 17 | Q | A sole proprietor? |\n| 18 | A | Yes. |\n| 19 | Q | Any of the others? |\n| 20 | A | Not sure. |\n| 21 | Q | Okay.
What about for Well Origin Limited? |\n| 22 | A | It went away. |\n| 23 | Q | Okay.
Same question though.
Which of |\n| 24 | | those boxes applied when it was in existence? |\n| 25 | A | Number one. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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134 | Page 126 of |\n|---------------|---------------|------------------------------------------------------|-------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 125 |\n| 1 | Q | Any of the others? | |\n| 2 | A | Not sure. | |\n| 3 | Q | One last point about this question. | |\n| 4 | | For Genever Holdings Corporation the block | |\n| 5 | | for the dates that the business existed is blank. | |\n| 6 | | Do you know what those dates should be? | |\n| 7 | A | 2015.
Probably March, April to June, | |\n| 8 | July. | | |\n| 9 | Q | Of which year? | |\n| 10 | A | 2015. | |\n| 11 | Q | So from approximately March or April until | |\n| 12 | | approximately July all in 2015? | |\n| 13 | A | Yes. | |\n| 14 | Q | Okay.
And is that the entire duration | |\n| 15 | | that that corporation existed? | |\n| 16 | A | I was in the company for a few months, for | |\n| 17 | | this period of time, a few months and with holding - | |\n| 18 | | - in stock holding.
And the company still existed | |\n| 19 | after I left. | | |\n| 20 | Q | I understand.
And does it still exist | |\n| 21 | today? | | |\n| 22 | A | I believe it still exists. | |\n| 23 | Q | Okay.
In what year did you get married? | |\n| 24 | A | 1918 -- or 1985. | |\n| 25 | Q | What year was your son born? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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126 |\n| 1 | A | 1986. |\n| 2 | Q | And how old are you, sir? |\n| 3 | A | 54. |\n| 4 | Q | How old was your son when your family |\n| 5 | | began working with Uda Property Company? |\n| 6 | A | 11.
Oh, five years -- five years old. |\n| 7 | Q | And so that would have been in |\n| 8 | | approximately 1991 that your family began working |\n| 9 | with Uda? | |\n| 10 | A | Yes. |\n| 11 | Q | When was the Henan Uda Hotel completed? |\n| 12 | A | In 1997. |\n| 13 | Q | And what about the Uda International Trade |\n| 14 | Center. | When was it completed? |\n| 15 | A | At pretty much the same time. |\n| 16 | Q | In your declaration in this case you |\n| 17 | | stated that both of those were successful ventures. |\n| 18 | A | Yes. |\n| 19 | Q | That allowed your family to start amassing |\n| 20 | | significant wealth. |\n| 21 | A | Yes. |\n| 22 | Q | So recognizing that this is in the early |\n| 23 | | '90's how much money approximately did those |\n| 24 | | ventures bring to your family? |\n| 25 | A | I don't remember. |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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127 |\n| 1 | Q | More than \\$50 million? |\n| 2 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
50 or 15? |\n| 3 | | MR. HARBACH:
5-0. |\n| 4 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, okay. |\n| 5 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 6 | Q | What about the Pengu Plaza?
When was it |\n| 7 | completed? | |\n| 8 | A | July 2008. |\n| 9 | Q | So between the early '90's and 2008 what |\n| 10 | | other projects of significant did the Guo family |\n| 11 | | invest in or participate in? |\n| 12 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Since 1990's to |\n| 13 | -- | |\n| 14 | A | Between the early 1990's and 2008. |\n| 15 | Q | Do you remember any of them?
Any of the |\n| 16 | | significant ventures? |\n| 17 | A | Beijing Golden Spring. |\n| 18 | Q | What was that? |\n| 19 | A | It's a property company.
Real estate. |\n| 20 | | It's a real estate company. |\n| 21 | Q | Was this a development company or a -- |\n| 22 | | like a buying and selling agency? |\n| 23 | A | Developing company. |\n| 24 | Q | When was the Pangu Plaza project started, |\n| 25 | approximately? | |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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128 |\n| 1 | A | Roughly 1999. |\n| 2 | Q | Okay. So let's use that as a point in |\n| 3 | time. | |\n| 4 | | At the beginning of the Pangu Plaza |\n| 5 | | project approximately how much had the family |\n| 6 | amassed in wealth? | |\n| 7 | | THE PRIVATE INTERPRETER:
Ask that |\n| 8 | question again? | |\n| 9 | | MR. HARBACH:
Sure. |\n| 10 | Q | As of 1999, which was the beginning of the |\n| 11 | | Pangu Plaza project, approximately how much wealth |\n| 12 | | had the family earned or amassed by that time? |\n| 13 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
You're talking |\n| 14 | about after 1999? | |\n| 15 | | MR. HARBACH:
No, I'm talking about as of |\n| 16 | 1999? | |\n| 17 | | THE OFFICIAL INTERPRETER:
Oh, as of 1999. |\n| 18 | Q | How much money had the family made by |\n| 19 | 1999? | |\n| 20 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 21 | Q | More than \\$100 million? |\n| 22 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 23 | Q | More than \\$500 million? |\n| 24 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 25 | Q | More than a billion dollars? |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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129 |\n| 1 | A | I don't remember. |\n| 2 | Q | Were you personally involved in the work |\n| 3 | | with Uda Property Company? |\n| 4 | A | Yes. |\n| 5 | Q | Were you personally involved in the |\n| 6 | | development of the Henan Uda Hotel? |\n| 7 | A | Yes. |\n| 8 | Q | Were you personally involved in the Uda |\n| 9 | | International Trade Center in Zhengzhou? |\n| 10 | A | Yes. |\n| 11 | Q | Were you personally involved in the |\n| 12 | | development of the Pengu Plaza? |\n| 13 | A | Yes. |\n| 14 | Q | Who was in charge of the Beijing Golden |\n| 15 | | Spring Real Estate Development firm? |\n| 16 | A | A professional group. |\n| 17 | Q | Were you a member of that group? |\n| 18 | A | At that time I was a consultant. |\n| 19 | Q | For Beijing Golden Spring? |\n| 20 | A | Yes. |\n| 21 | Q | During what time frame was that, |\n| 22 | | approximately that you were a consultant for them? |\n| 23 | A | After 2000. |\n| 24 | Q | After 2000.
Okay. |\n| 25 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
Mr. Harbach, I just want to |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
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130 |\n| 1 | | note that it is 4:18 and I know we've had a long day |\n| 2 | | -- and I wanted to give -- I apologize for |\n| 3 | | interrupting you, first of all. |\n| 4 | | MR. HARBACH:
That's all right. |\n| 5 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
But I wanted to give |\n| 6 | | counsel for the committee a chance to ask a few |\n| 7 | | questions today before we conclude. |\n| 8 | | MR. HARBACH:
Of course.
Sure. |\n| 9 | | MR. STAFSTROM:
I'll be very brief. |\n| 10 | | EXAMINATION BY MR. STAFSTROM: |\n| 11 | Q | I noticed your hair is very short. I like |\n| 12 | it. | Have you gotten a haircut recently? |\n| 13 | A | Yes.
I had a haircut. |\n| 14 | Q | Where did you get it cut? |\n| 15 | A | My wife. |\n| 16 | Q | Oh, your wife.
Okay. |\n| 17 | | Does she always cut your hair? |\n| 18 | A | After the virus until now. |\n| 19 | Q | Okay.
All right. I have no further |\n| 20 | questions then. | |\n| 21 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
I'm going to put the |\n| 22 | | recording on pause while we work on selecting a new |\n| 23 | date. | |\n| 24 | | (Off the record.) |\n| 25 | | MS. CLAIBORN:
We're back on the record |\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5 | Filed 10/04/22
134 | Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 | Page 132 of |\n|---------------|-----------|-----------------------------|---------------------------------------------|-------------|\n| | | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | | 131 |\n| 1 | | after a short break. | We have selected a continuance | |\n| 2 | | | date of April 29th, beginning at 10:00 a.m. | We are |\n| 3 | | concluded for today. | Thank you. | |\n| 4 | | (Meeting adjourned.) | | |\n| 5 | | | | |\n| 6 | | | | |\n| 7 | | | | |\n| 8 | | | | |\n| 9 | | | | |\n| 10 | | | | |\n| 11 | | | | |\n| 12 | | | | |\n| 13 | | | | |\n| 14 | | | | |\n| 15 | | | | |\n| 16 | | | | |\n| 17 | | | | |\n| 18 | | | | |\n| 19 | | | | |\n| 20 | | | | |\n| 21 | | | | |\n| 22 | | | | |\n| 23 | | | | |\n| 24 | | | | |\n| | | | | |\n\n Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 I, CHRISTINE FIORE, court-approved transcriber and certified electronic reporter and transcriber, certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the official electronic sound recording of the proceedings in the above-entitled matter. 9 April 15, 2022 10 Christine Fiore, CERT 11 Transcriber Case 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 133 of\n\n| Case 22-50073 | Doc 913-5
Filed 10/04/22
Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18
134 | Page 134 of |\n|---------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------|-------------|\n| | Ho Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 | 133 |\n| 1 | INDEX | |\n| 2 | | |\n| 3 | | Page |\n| 4 | Examination by Ms. Claiborn | 6 |\n| 5 | Examination by Mr. Wolman | 71 |\n| 6 | Examination by Mr. Harbach | 80 |\n| 7 | Examination by Mr. Stafstrom | 130 |\n| 8 | | |\n| 9 | | |\n| 10 | | |\n| 11 | | |\n| 12 | | |\n| 13 | | |\n| 14 | | |\n| 15 | | |\n| 16 | | |\n| 17 | | |\n| 18 | | |\n| 19 | | |\n| 20 | | |\n| 21 | | |\n| 22 | | |\n| 23 | | |\n| 24 | | |\n| 25 | | |","body_zh":"证物 E\n\n第 341 条会议记录\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 2 of 134\n\n美国康涅狄格州联邦破产法院\n关于 * 第 11 章 *\n* *\nHO WAN KWOK（郭文贵）， * Case 22-50073(JAM) *\n债务人。 * *\n* *\n* *\n* *\n* *\n* *\n* *\n* *\n* *\n* *\n* *\n续行第 341 条债权人会议记录\n2022 年 4 月 6 日\n由美国受托人办公室进行电子录音\n记录整理人：\nChristine Fiore（克里斯廷·菲奥雷），CERT\nFiore Reporting and Transcription Service, Inc.（菲奥雷记录与听打服务公司）\n4 Research Drive, Suite 402\nShelton, CT 06484\n(203)929-9992\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）－2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n出庭人员：\n\n代表债务人： WILLIAM R. BALDIGA, ESQ.（威廉·R·巴尔迪加律师）\nBEN SILVERBERG, ESQ.（本·西尔弗伯格律师）\nBrown Rudnick, LLP（布朗·鲁德尼克律师事务所）\nSeven Times Square\nNew York, NY\n\n代表美国受托人： HOLLEY E. CLAIBORN, ESQ.（霍莉·E·克莱伯恩律师）\nSTEVEN MACKEY, ESQ.（史蒂文·麦基律师）\nOffice of the U.S. Trustee（美国受托人办公室）\n150 State Street\nNew Haven, CT\n\n代表债权人 Logan Cheng（程乐根）： JAY MARSHALL WOLMAN, ESQ.（杰伊·马歇尔·沃尔曼律师）\nRandazza Legal Group（兰达扎法律集团）\n100 Pearl Street, 14th Floor\nHartford, CT 06103\n代表债权人 Pacific Alliance Asia Opportunity Fund, LP（太平洋联盟亚洲机会基金有限合伙企业）： DAVID V. HARBACH, II, ESQ.（大卫·V·哈巴赫二世律师）\nO'Melveny & Myers, LLP（欧麦律师事务所）\n1625 I Street NW\nWashington, DC\n\nSTUART SARNOFF, ESQ.（斯图尔特·萨诺夫律师）\nMAKENZIE RUSSO（麦肯齐·鲁索）\nO'Melveny & Myers, LLP（欧麦律师事务所）\nTimes Square Tower\n7 Times Square\nNew York, NY\n\nANNECCA SMITH, ESQ.（安妮卡·史密斯律师）\nRobinson and Cole（罗宾逊与科尔律师事务所）\n280 Trumbull Street\nHartford, CT\n\n代表债权人 Bruno Wu（吴征）、Weican Meng（孟伟灿）及 Rui Ma（马蕊）： KRISTEN MAYHEW, ESQ.（克里斯滕·梅休律师）\nMcElroy, Deutsch, Mulvaney & Carpenter（麦克尔罗伊、德意志、马尔瓦尼与卡彭特律师事务所）\nOne State Street\nHartford, CT\n\n代表无担保债权人官方委员会： STEVEN STAFSTROM, ESQ.（史蒂文·斯塔夫斯特罗姆律师）\nPullman & Comley（普尔曼与康利律师事务所）\n850 Main Street\nBridgeport, CT\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 4 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok－2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 克莱伯恩女士：\n早上好。\n今天是\n\n2 2022 年 4 月 6 日，星期三。我们为\n3 Ho Wan Kwok（郭文贵）第 11 章案件中的续行债权人会议\n4 而聚集在此，案号为 22-50073。\n5 我叫 Holley Claiborn（霍莉·克莱伯恩）。我是\n6 美国受托人办公室的一名出庭\n7 律师，今天的会议将由我主持。今天的\n8 会议正在通过数字录音机录音，并且\n9 各方也可通过电话\n10 参加。包括债务人、\n11 律师及其他专业人士在内的各方\n12 均已亲自到场。\n13 如各位所能听到，今天的会议正在进行口译，\n14 今天的口译员是 Jeff（杰夫），\n15 我将请杰夫对本宣誓作出回应。\n16 （口译员宣誓。）\n17 法庭：\n代表 Kwok 先生出席的有\n18 William Baldiga（威廉·巴尔迪加）和 Ben Silverberg（本·西尔弗伯格）。\n19 代表债务人出席的还有\n20 财务专业人士 Craig Gelbert（克雷格·盖尔伯特）和 Matthew\n21 Flynn（马修·弗林）。\n22 今天代表\n23 无担保债权人委员会到场的是 Pullman and Comley（普尔曼与康利律师事务所）的 Steven Stafstrom（史蒂文·斯塔夫斯特罗姆）。\n24 \n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 5 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok－2022 年 4 月 6 日\n1 Stafstrom 先生是\n2 无担保债权人官方委员会的律师。\n3 今天代表 PAACS 出席的还有\n4 Stuart Sarnoff（斯图尔特·萨诺夫）、David Harbach（大卫·哈巴赫）和 MacKenzie Russo（麦肯齐·鲁索）。\n5 他们代理 PAACS。\n6 代表包括\n7 Rui Ma（马蕊）在内的若干债权人出席的是 Kristen Mayhew（克里斯滕·梅休）。\n8 代表债权人 Logan Cheng（程乐根）\n9 出席的是 Jay Wolman（杰伊·沃尔曼）。\n10 代表 PAACS 出席的还有来自 Robinson and Cole（罗宾逊与科尔律师事务所）的 Annecca\n11 Smith（安妮卡·史密斯）。\n12 此外，今天代表债务人出席的还有\n13 Josh Klein（乔什·克莱因）和 Aaron Mitchell（亚伦·米切尔）。\n14 今天的会议将先由我提问，\n15 随后债权人将有机会\n16 上前提问。\n17 电话会议线路上\n18 有人吗？\n19 麦基先生：\n美国\n20 受托人办公室的 Steven Mackey（史蒂文·麦基）在线上。\n21 谢谢，麦基先生。除麦基先生外，\n22 还有其他人吗？\n23 无人回应，我将进行\n24 对 Kwok 先生的宣誓。\n25 （债务人宣誓。）\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5\nFiled 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok－2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 克莱伯恩女士：\nKwok 先生，如您所知，\n2 今天的会议正在录音，Jeff 先生在此\n3 担任我们今天的正式口译员。\n4 Jeff 将口译\n5 我提出的问题和您的回答，我请您\n6 等到 Jeff 完整翻译后\n7 再回答我的问题。\n8 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n9 问 Kwok 先生，今天我们将继续讨论\n10 上次债权人会议中总体上未完成的\n11 事项；该次会议于\n12 2022 年 3 月 21 日举行。\n13 自 2022 年 3 月 21 日以来，您的就业\n14 状况是否有任何变化？\n15 答 没有。\n16 问 您的住所方面是否有任何\n17 变化？\n18 答 没有。\n19 问 在 2022 年 3 月 21 日举行的会议中，\n20 我曾就您的\n21 破产财产清单和破产财务状况说明书的准确性向您提问。\n22 \n23 答 没有变化。\n\n问 谢谢。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：杰夫，为便于我提问，\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 7 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok－2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\nHo Wan Kwok－2022 年 4 月 6 日\n1 我将依照您面前的文件\n2 进行提问。当我说“财产清单”时，指的是\n3 这份文件。然后，这份文件是\n4 财务状况说明书。明白吗？当我\n5 提到 ECF 编号时，它位于页面顶部。\n6 正式口译员：\nECF 编号。\n7 好的。\n8 克莱伯恩女士：\n好的？这样应当能\n9 让您跟上，并从这一页开始。\n10 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n11 问 好的。Kwok 先生，我请您\n12 确认您面前有《财产清单 A-B》至 J，\n13 看起来您确实有这些文件。\n14 私人口译员：\n他面前有\n15 中文译本。\n16 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n17 问 我看到坐在您旁边的 Baldiga 先生\n18 持有英文版本。但是，Kwok 先生，\n19 您面前的似乎是译本。这\n20 准确吗？\n21 答 只有《财产清单 A-B》。\n22 问 好的。那么，Kwok 先生，当您今天回答\n23 我的问题时，您将查看\n24 您自己的破产财产清单译本。\n25 \n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5\nFiled 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok－2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 答 好的。\n2 问 好的。\n3 私人口译员：\n请稍等，\n4 法官阁下。\n5 克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。\n6 私人口译员：\n我在听取\n7 口译员翻译证人回答时，\n8 有一点听不清。\n9 克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。那么，Jack（杰克），如果您\n10 能说大声一点。我来移动麦克风。\n11 正式口译员：\n哦，好的。\n12 克莱伯恩女士：\n看看这样是否有效。\n13 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n14 问 好的。Kwok 先生，从《财产清单 A-B》\n15 第 1 问开始。就《财产清单 A-B》的\n16 第 1 问而言，该问题询问您是否在任何不动产、\n17 住宅、建筑物或类似财产中拥有任何法定或\n18 衡平权益。您对\n19 第 1 问的回答是否定的，Kwok 先生。这一回答\n20 准确吗？\n21 答 是。\n22 问 Kwok 先生，您在 2018 年至您于\n23 2022 年 2 月提交破产申请期间，\n24 是否拥有过任何不动产？\n25 正式口译员：\n您能重复一下\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 9 of\nHo Wan Kwok－2022 年 4 月 6 日\n1 那个问题吗？\n2 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n3 问 您在 2018 年至您于\n4 2022 年 2 月提交破产申请期间，\n5 是否拥有过任何不动产？\n6 正式口译员：\n您能重复一下\n7 那个问题吗？他说他没有听到。\n8 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n9 问 Kwok 先生——\n10 巴尔迪加先生：\n对不起。我没有听到。\n11 正式口译员：\n他说他\n12 没有理解翻译内容。我只是想先\n13 确保我理解了。\n14 克莱伯恩女士：\n我会重复这个问题。\n15 正式口译员：\n好的。\n16 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n17 问 Kwok 先生，您在 2018 年至 2022 年\n18 2 月期间是否拥有过任何不动产？\n19 答 没有。\n20 问 Kwok 先生，截至您于 2022 年\n21 2 月提交破产申请时，您在世界任何地方的\n22 任何不动产中是否拥有任何衡平权益？\n23 答 没有。\n24 问 Kwok 先生，截至您于 2022 年\n25 2 月提交破产申请时，您是否在\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5\nFiled 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok－2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 世界任何地方的任何不动产中拥有\n2 任何法定权益？\n3 答 没有。\n4 问 Kwok 先生，您是否曾在香港\n5 拥有过任何不动产？\n6 答 没有。\n7 私人口译员：\n回答是什么？\n8 正式口译员：\n没有。\n9 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n10 问 Kwok 先生，您是否曾拥有位于\n11 香港 South Bay Road 16A 号的房产？\n12 答 没有。\n13 问 Kwok 先生，您目前是否拥有位于纽约市\n14 Sherry Netherland 的一套公寓？\n15 正式口译员：\n我没有听清。\n16 我能请他重复——重复回答吗？\n17 巴尔迪加先生：\n您必须说——无论\n18 您要说什么，您必须——您是在向所有人说话，\n19 而不只是向 Holley 说话，所以我需要听到\n20 您在说什么。\n21 正式口译员：\n好的。我只是——\n22 我只是想请他重复——重复\n23 回答。\n24 巴尔迪加先生：\n好的。\n25 正式口译员：\n好的？\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 11 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok－2022 年 4 月 6 日\n1 证人：\n我不拥有纽约的那处不动产，\n2 Sharon——Sharons——那个\n3 地址我不记得了，而我拥有——我拥有 50%\n4 的股份——股份和——\n5 私人口译员：\n没有。\n6 正式口译员：\n没有？\n7 私人口译员：\n没有。\n8 正式口译员：\n好的。\n9 证人：\n代表家庭。\n10 克莱伯恩女士：\n我可以请您不要\n11 打断吗？您能否等到最后，然后\n12 ——\n13 私人口译员：\n好的。\n14 克莱伯恩女士：\n——您可以表达您想说的\n15 任何内容？\n16 私人口译员：\n好的。\n17 克莱伯恩女士：\n您能否请\n18 再次翻译 Kwok 先生的回答？\n19 正式口译员：\n是的。我只是想重复一遍，确认——并且\n20 确认我说得对，您知道，\n21 他说的话。\n22 证人：\n所以，是的，他——他说，我拥有——我拥有\n23 50% 的——50%，但我不拥有整处不动产，\n24 我只是\n25 代表家庭。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok－2022 年 4 月 6 日\n\n1 克莱伯恩女士询问：\n2 问 Kwok 先生，您拥有 50% 的什么？\n3 答 Bravo Luck（布拉沃幸运），50% 的股份\n4 ——权力。我不知道。我不明白。\n5 私人口译员：\n（听不清。）\n6 正式口译员：\n他拥有——他\n7 说他拥有其中 50%。\n8 私人口译员：\n——我们能很好地听到\n9 您，Holley。\n10 克莱伯恩女士：\n好的。我将要问——\n11 我将要——\n12 私人口译员：\n我不知道\n13 麦克风是否连接到了任何东西。\n14 克莱伯恩女士：\n连接了。连接了。杰夫，您\n15 能说大声一点吗？\n16 正式口译员：\nKwok 先生说\n17 他拥有——拥有 50% 的——股份。这\n18 是像不动产的股份之类吗？\n19 我不知道。我不明白。但如果她想让您协助，\n20 您可以协助。您想让他稍微协助\n21 一点吗？\n22 克莱伯恩女士：\n我不希望。\n23 正式口译员：\n好的。\n24 克莱伯恩女士：\n那么，我就——我会问\n25 后续问题。\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。\n\nBALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加先生）：\n好的。\n但我需要听听这是否是误译，所以——\n\nCLAIBORN女士（克莱伯恩女士）：\n如果可以的话，我要问一个澄清性问题。\n\n由CLAIBORN女士提问：\n\n问：\n郭先生，您是否拥有一家名为Bravo Luck（好运公司）的公司50%的股权？\n\n答：\n我代表我的家人持有50%的股份。\n\n问：\n郭先生，当您使用这个术语——\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n我能再听一遍吗？\n您能重复一下吗？\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。\n我代表我的家人持有该公司50%的股份。\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n好的。\n\n由CLAIBORN女士提问：\n\n问：\n郭先生，您所说的“家人”是什么意思？\n\n答：\n我的家庭是一个大家庭，其中包括很多人。我的孩子、我的嫂子，还有所有人加在一起。很多人。\n\n问：\n郭先生，谁拥有权益——\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n对不起。我们确实有一个口译问题。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交于 10/04/22 录入于 10/04/22 11:50:18 第14页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n私人口译员：\n我只是想问，口译是否应当对（听不清）的内容作概述？\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n在Jeff先生（杰夫先生）能力所及的范围内，应当逐字翻译。\n\n私人口译员：\n对。那么，如果郭先生说的是，我的儿子、我的女儿、我的兄弟、我的嫂子、我的侄子、我的侄女，很多人，而口译员说的是，嗯，我的很多家人和我的兄弟，很多人，那么这是否正确？\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n我希望Jeff先生尽可能逐字翻译。因此，有了这一指示，我们能否——\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n——尽我们所能，从现在起做好这项具体工作？谢谢。\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n谢谢。\n\n由CLAIBORN女士提问：\n\n问：\n那么，郭先生，谁拥有名为Bravo Luck（好运公司）的公司？\n\n答：\n我的儿子。\n\n问：\n您儿子的名字是什么？\n\n答：\nCheng Wu（吴诚）。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5\n提交于 10/04/22\n录入于 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问：\n您儿子拥有Bravo Luck多久了？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n私人口译员：\n请再说一遍。\n\n官方口译员：\n我不记得了。\n\n由CLAIBORN女士提问：\n\n问：\n那么，郭先生，当您解释您在Southern Sherry Netherland（南雪莉-尼德兰）的所有权权益时，您拥有其中50%的是什么？\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n异议。您可以口译。\n\n官方口译员：\nHolley，您能再重复一遍那个问题吗？\n\n由CLAIBORN女士提问：\n\n问：\n郭先生，您作证称，您拥有某家公司50%的权益，这是针对我询问您是否拥有Sherry Netherland（雪莉-尼德兰）公寓时所作的回答。您能否解释一下您的意思？\n\n答：\nSherry是一家合作公寓。它没有——它没有——它没有所有权。\n\n私人口译员：\nHolley女士，我可以——\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n可以，当然。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5\n提交于 10/04/22\n录入于 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n私人口译员：\n您得说大声一些。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n好的。我们暂时暂停一下。\n\n（停止记录）\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n好的。短暂休息后，我们恢复记录，郭先生，您仍在宣誓之下。\n\nJeff，您能否重新翻译？\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n最后一个问题。您要我再问一遍吗？\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。您能再问一遍吗？\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n好的。我再试一次。\n\n由CLAIBORN女士提问：\n\n问：\n郭先生，您今天作证称，您拥有某家公司50%的权益，这是我询问您是否拥有Sherry Netherland的一套公寓时给我的回答。您能否解释一下您的回答？\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n异议。\n\n证人：\n我不知道该如何解释。他说Sherry Netherland是一家合作公寓。我没有该房产的产权证书，我只是代表我的家人拥有50%的权利。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交于 10/04/22 录入于 10/04/22 11:50:18 第17页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n对不起。请继续。\n\n私人口译员：\n因为——郭先生确实提到了Bravo Luck这个公司名称，所以口译员先生没有说出Bravo Luck这个词，即持有Sherry Netherland权益的公司；郭先生代表家人拥有Bravo Luck的50%，而Bravo Luck是拥有Sherry Netherland的控股公司。Sherry Netherland是一家合作公寓。\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n因此，我将提出持续异议，理由是口译员没有提供证人所使用的确切措辞。我并非归咎于任何人或作任何指摘，但显然这对证言的质量至关重要，也是必要的。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n我们需要——\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n我们必须使用证人所使用的措辞。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n我确信Jeff今天会尽其所能，努力逐字翻译所有内容。\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n谢谢。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n但请理解——\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交于 10/04/22 录入于 10/04/22 11:50:18 第18页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n在这个房间里，对于Jeff先生并不熟悉的术语，大家是熟悉的。因此，在人们以公司名称的简称或仅用一个词回答问题的范围内，回答应当尽可能具体——\n\n官方口译员：\n好的，我——\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n——如果您能翻译这一点。\n\n官方口译员：\n——我会尽力，但说实话，那位口译员，Holley，那位口译员可能更了解这个案件，了解细节。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n我同意。您能不能——\n\n官方口译员：\n但是如果他——\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n——您能否把我刚才所说的话翻译给郭先生，因为我想确保——\n\n官方口译员：\n哦。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n——他以易于翻译的方式回答问题。\n\n官方口译员：\n我只是告诉他，回答要——您知道——简短清晰，但我大体上理解他所说的内容，而且——\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n您能否也将郭先生的回答或意见翻译成您的意见？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交于 10/04/22 录入于 10/04/22 11:50:18 第19页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n官方口译员：\n他说他会尽力说得更简短、更清晰，而且——但他需要尽可能详细地解释，因为这关系到他的生命线。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\nSarnoff先生（萨诺夫先生）？\n\nSARNOFF先生：\n好的。我只是想明确一点，如果口译员——译员、官方译员和郭先生的口译员之间存在差异，那么译员是最终裁决者；除非译员同意该口译员提出的翻译差异，否则他们必须先解决该问题，然后我们才能以郭先生的私人口译员所述的郭先生说法为准。\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n我不接受这一点。\n\nSARNOFF先生：\n没关系。\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n那可以是您的立场。\n\nSARNOFF先生：\n好的。立场必须是，为使记录准确，译员必须就郭先生所说的话与口译员达成一致。\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n我——我理解您的立场。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交于 10/04/22 录入于 10/04/22 11:50:18 第20页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n官方口译员：\n那么，Holley，如果我遗漏了任何内容，他的私人口译员想补充我遗漏的任何内容，一些细节信息，那么她能否补充；如果我同意——您知道——我遗漏的内容或他所说的内容，也许我遗漏了一些细节信息和一些——\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n我认为今天更好的做法——\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n——为了清晰的翻译和清晰的记录——\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n——是由您，Jeff，来翻译——\n\n官方口译员：\n嗯哼。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n——我的问题，并翻译郭先生的回答。\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n如果郭先生根据您的翻译认为您没有正确翻译，那么他可以再次作证，您可以再试一次。但我想限制译员之间以及与郭先生私人译员之间发生的互动，以便我们有一份正式记录：提问的人是我，问题得到正式翻译，郭先生作出回答，而回答也得到正式翻译。\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n但Holley，问题在于，证人不知道Jeff的英语陈述是否确实准确。您不能把这件事交给证人。这就是我们有复核口译员的原因。如果他会说英语，那么我们根本不需要任何口译员。他做不到这一点。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n我认为实际上，郭先生会足够的英语，能够知道他是否回答了问题。\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n不，他不会。我提出异议。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n嗯，我——我认为根据我个人的经验，这就是我所看到的。\n\n话虽如此，我们将尽力而为——\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n我同意。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n——看看接下来如何。\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n好的。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n好吗？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5\n提交于 10/04/22\n录入于 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n由CLAIBORN女士提问：\n\n问：\n那么回到问答。郭先生，您是否在Genever Holdings Corporation（Genever控股公司）拥有权益？\n\n答：\n我只是有——实际上，我没有，但我只是持有——我只是代表我的家人持有一些权益。\n\n问：\n除您之外，是否有人获授权代表Genever Holdings Corporation行事？\n\n答：\n我的儿子。\n\n问：\n是否有文件记载您在Genever Holdings Corporation中的所有权权益，无论其为何？\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n异议。您——您可以回答。\n\n证人：\n没有。\n\n私人口译员：\nHolley女士，我能否——首先，上一次——当他在向证人指示其证言应当如何作答时，我认为口译员——官方口译员没有翻译您的指示。他是在告诉证人应当做什么，而不是翻译您所说的话。\n\n然后，现在证人说，他两次问口译员，您谈论的是所有权，您谈论的是所有权权益。现在他两次使用了这些词，最后Jeff先生说，是。然后，他回答没有，但该互动没有被翻译。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交于 10/04/22 录入于 10/04/22 11:50:18 第23页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\nJeff先生，您能翻译吗？\n\n官方口译员：\n我不知道她刚才说了什么。我不知道。我不明白她在说什么。\n\n私人口译员：\n我的意思是，每一个词都应当被翻译。证人——证人所说的每一个词都应当被翻译。Holley女士所说的话也应当被翻译，对吗？\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n是。\n\n私人口译员：\n对。但他会——没有翻译Holley女士所说的——而且您没有翻译郭先生所说的每一件事。\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。也许——也许我们应该让她来翻译。我要退出。我不知道——\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n我要把——\n\n官方口译员：\n——我不熟悉——\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n——我要把——\n\n暂时休庭片刻。\n\n官方口译员：\n是，是，是。\n\n（休庭记录外）\n\nCLAIBORN 女士（克莱伯恩）：\n好的。短暂休息后，现在恢复庭审记录。\n\n郭先生（Ho Wan Kwok），您仍在宣誓状态下。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问：郭先生，您今天是否携带任何美国货币？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：在您提交破产案件时，您是否持有任何美国货币？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您是否拥有任何外币？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您是否拥有任何数字货币？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您在美国是否拥有任何种类的金融账户？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：郭先生，您在美国境外是否拥有任何种类的金融账户？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：3月21日，您作证称您没有工作，也没有收入来源。谁支付您的家庭开支？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22 录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18 第 25 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n答：有时是我儿子，有时是我妻子，或者有时是我的其他家庭成员。\n\n问：您能使用任何信用卡吗？\n\n答：不能。\n\n问：您能使用与银行账户关联的任何借记卡吗？\n\n答：不能。\n\n问：您如何支付食品杂货费用？\n\n答：由我儿子、我妻子、我家庭成员的公司支付。\n\n问：您的儿子住在哪里？\n\n答：伦敦。\n\n问：您的儿子如何给您汇钱？\n\n答：他在纽约的一家公司设有家族办公室。\n\n问：家族办公室会给您钱吗？\n\n答：他们支付上述开支。\n\n问：“家族办公室”一词是什么意思？\n\nBALDIGA 先生（巴尔迪加）：\n异议。您可以回答。\n\n官方口译员：\n我可以请——请他重复一下吗？\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n可以。\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。您能——\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22 录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18 第 26 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n对。他还必须向证人翻译我所说的话。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n您还没有说任何话，他将请他重复其回答，然后他会翻译，之后我们可以进行您希望进行的任何讨论。\n\n私人口译员：\n律师提出了异议。口译员没有翻译该异议。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n我很愿意重复问题，但如果有人在基本问题上打断，我们今天将无法取得任何有意义的进展。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n不，我没有打断，但是——\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n那么让我再试一次。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n好的。但请稍等。如果我提出异议，或者我说任何其他话，都必须被翻译。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n您没有留出翻译的时间。那么，Jeff 先生，您能翻译刚才发生的那段交流吗？\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。我不知道。打断太多了。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22 录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n对。\n\n官方口译员：\nHolley，我不能——继续这样做。我太分心了，我不知道。这只是一个简单的——让证人简单地重复一下，然后——\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n让我试试——\n\n官方口译员：\n——却让所有这些人都牵涉进来。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n没错。让我——\n\n官方口译员：\n我们无法继续下去。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n让我再问一次这个问题。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问：郭先生，您所称的“家族办公室”是什么意思？\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n异议。您可以回答。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\nBaldiga 先生，该术语在文件中到处都有。您能重复——翻译吗？\n\n官方口译员：\n不，我无法继续。Holley，我请求退出。很抱歉。这——这不会——\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n请暂停一下。\n\n官方口译员：\n——这太——\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22 录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18 第 28 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n多了。\n\n（休庭记录外）\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n短暂休息后，现在恢复庭审记录。\n\n郭先生，您仍在宣誓状态下。休息期间，我与 Baldiga 律师进行了交谈，我们已同意保留对问题形式提出的所有异议。\n\n我将回到我的问题。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问：休息前我们停下来的问题是，您所称的“家族办公室”是什么意思？\n\n答：他们代表我的大家庭。这是一家代表我的儿子、我的女儿、我的妻子以及我的家庭进行投资的公司。\n\n问：该公司的名称是什么？\n\n答：Golden Spring Europe（欧洲金泉）。\n\n问：您的意思是 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）吗？\n\n答：名称大致如此。\n\n问：谁支付您所吃餐食的费用？\n\n答：有时是我妻子的公司，有时是我的家族办公室、我儿子的公司。\n\n问：郭先生，当您使用“家族办公室”一词时，您是否指的是名为 Golden Spring New York Limited（纽约金泉有限公司）的公司？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22 录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n官方口译员：\n公司的名称是什么？我可以——您能重复一下吗？\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n名称是 Golden Spring New York Limited（纽约金泉有限公司）。\n\n证人：\n是。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问：在您的破产案件中，您提交了一份涵盖2月份开支的报告。\n\n官方口译员：\n我可以再重复一遍吗？\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n也许我再试一次。\n\n官方口译员：\n谢谢。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问：郭先生，您提交了一份涵盖2022年2月的月度经营报告，该报告显示您支出了约 \\$160,000。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n异议。我提出异议。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问：谁为 \\$160,000 的支出提供资金？\n\n答：部分来自 Golden Spring 家族办公室和该公司，部分由我妻子及我妻子的公司支付。\n\n问：您妻子的公司名称是什么？\n\n答：Greenwich（格林尼治），在 Connecticut（康涅狄格州）。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22\n134 录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18 第 30 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日 29\n\n问：您指的是公司名称吗？\n\n答：是，公司名称。\n\n问：您妻子的公司 Greenwich 为哪些开支付款？\n\n答：主要是食物，因为我住在我妻子的房子里。我们分担清洁费用、开支，因为——还有花园维护费用。\n\n身份不明的发言人：\n好的。我们能否短暂停一下，以便我与我的共同律师交谈？或者与我的合伙人交谈。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n不，我们就等着。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问：您妻子的公司 Greenwich 的资金来自哪里？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：您妻子的公司 Greenwich 是否支付任何专业费用？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：实际付款的人是您的妻子吗？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：您的妻子有支票账户吗？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：您的妻子有借记卡吗？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22\n134 录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18 第 31 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日 30\n\n问：当您与妻子在餐厅用餐时，谁支付账单？\n\n答：我从未与妻子去过餐厅。\n\n问：从来没有？\n\n答：我认为我被这些人追赶，所以我从未去过。我认为我——您知道，我认为我被这些人追赶。\n\n问：您的妻子购买食品杂货吗？\n\n答：有时。\n\n问：她如何支付？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：为什么 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）支付您的一些个人开支？\n\n答：因为我是家庭成员之一，我儿子非常成功，他非常爱我。\n\n问：还有其他原因吗？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：Golden Spring 为您的哪些个人生活开支付款？\n\n答：因我被后面那些人追赶而产生的安保开支，以及交通、衣物和一些生活用品。\n\n问：Golden Spring New York 中是谁——\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n等一下。我将完整地问一个问题。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22\n录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问：那么，Golden Spring New York 中是谁授权支付您的个人生活开支？\n\n答：我儿子。\n\n问：请说明您儿子如何授权这些付款。\n\n答：我通常与 Golden Spring、该公司的主管和 CEO 沟通。\n\n私人口译员：\n（听不清）董事，不是主管。\n\n官方口译员：\n您能——好的。董事，不是主管。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：\n谢谢。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士询问：\n\n问：郭先生，您刚才提到的董事或主管是谁？\n\n答：Wang Yanping（王燕平）。\n\n问：Ping 女士是 Golden Spring New York 的高级职员吗？\n\n答：她是一位小姐。她是一位女士。\n\n问：Ping 女士是 Golden Spring New York 的公司高级职员吗？\n\n答：是。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22\n录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n问：她的职务是什么？\n\n答：她是高级职员或董事。\n\n问：她有职务头衔吗？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：郭先生，您现在是 Golden Spring New York 的公司高级职员吗？\n\n答：现在？\n\n问：是。\n\n答：不是。\n\n问：郭先生，您过去曾是 Golden Spring New York 的公司高级职员吗？\n\n答：我似乎在2015年公司成立时担任过一个职务。我忘记当时是什么职务了。\n\n问：郭先生，您在 Golden Spring New York 中拥有任何权益吗？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：过去，您是否曾在 Golden Spring New York 中拥有任何种类的所有权权益？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：您是否参与了 Golden Spring New York 的设立？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：您在设立 Golden Spring New York 时担任什么角色？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22\n134 录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18 第 34 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日 33\n\n答：顾问，提供意见和建议。\n\n问：您的儿子是否参与了 Golden Spring New York 的设立？\n\n答：他是主要负责人。他——他是主要负责人。\n\n问：Golden Spring New York 设立时，谁拥有 New York——Golden New——Golden Spring New York 的所有权权益？\n\n答：我儿子。\n\n问：Golden Spring Hong Kong（香港金泉）是否在 Golden Spring New York 中拥有任何所有权权益？\n\n答：我不知道该权益的细节，因为这——这两者合并在一起，被视为一回事。\n\n问：Golden Spring Hong Kong 是否是一家与 Golden Spring New York 分开的公司？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：谁拥有 Golden Spring Hong Kong？\n\n答：我儿子。\n\n问：2015年 Golden Spring New York 成立时，谁拥有 Golden Spring Hong Kong？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：您是 Golden Spring Hong Kong 的公司高级职员吗？\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22\n录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- 2022年4月6日\n\n问：您是否曾是 Golden Spring Hong Kong 的公司高级职员？\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n问：您在 Golden Spring Hong Kong 中拥有任何所有权权益吗？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：过去，您是否曾在 Golden Spring Hong Kong 中拥有任何所有权权益？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：Golden Spring New York 从事何种业务？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：Golden Spring New York 如何产生收入？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n私人口译员：\nHolley 女士，我不知道这——他所说的（听不清）是，Golden Spring New York 如何产生收入，而不是 Golden Spring New York 如何赚钱，对吗？\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：\n这基本上就是我的问题。\n\n私人口译员：\n是，所以口译员不应当——以 Golden Spring New York——Golden Spring 如何——的方式翻译。\n\n1 Spring New York 如何赚钱，向——向——向\n2 郭先生。\n3 官方口译员：\n创造资金，\n4 是。\n创造收入，创造资金。\n5 私人口译员：\n不，但你说\n6 ——\n7 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我很乐意具体地\n8 问这个问题。\n9 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n10 问 纽约金泉公司（Golden Spring New York）如何\n11 赚钱？\n12 答 我不知道。\n13 问 在 2015 年，您是否参与了\n14 纽约金泉公司的业务？\n15 答 我不记得。\n16 问 您是否曾向\n17 纽约金泉公司赠与资金？\n18 答 没有。\n19 问 您是否曾向纽约金泉公司\n20 提供任何资金？\n21 答 没有。\n22 问 您是否曾向\n23 纽约金泉公司转让任何种类的财产？\n24 答 没有。\n\n问 您是否曾以任何方式向纽约金泉公司提供资金\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\n134 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 37 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵） - April 6, 2022 36\n1 吗？\n2 答 没有。\n3 问 您是否曾向纽约金泉公司\n4 出借资金？\n5 答 没有。\n6 问 您是否曾将您自己的任何\n7 资金投资于纽约金泉公司？\n8 答 没有。\n9 问 Yanping Wang（王雁平）担任何种公司\n10 职务？\n11 答 高级管理人员和董事。\n12 问 Yanping Wang 是否为纽约金泉公司\n13 的总裁？\n14 答 是。\n15 问 纽约金泉公司是否还有其他\n16 公司高级管理人员？\n17 答 是。\n18 问 他们是谁？\n19 答 我不太清楚他们的\n20 姓名。\n21 问 请告诉我您记得的情况。\n22 答 什么——我不太清楚他们的姓名\n23 ，而且——因为我连律师的姓名都不记得。\n24 我不想误导你，\n25 Holley（霍利）。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 纽约金泉公司有多少名高级管理人员？\n2 \n3 答 我不记得。哦，我不知道。\n4 抱歉。我不知道。\n5 问 纽约金泉公司是否有任何\n6 董事？\n7 答 Yanping Wang。\n8 问 Wang 女士是否是纽约金泉公司\n9 唯一的董事？\n10 答 我不知道。\n11 问 纽约金泉公司从何处取得其用于\n12 支付您个人开支的资金？\n13 答 我不知道。\n14 问 纽约金泉公司是否有任何\n15 雇员？\n16 答 有。\n17 问 多少名？\n18 答 我不知道。\n19 问 您目前是否以任何方式参与\n20 纽约金泉公司的业务？\n21 答 没有。\n22 问 纽约金泉公司拥有什么？\n23 答 我不知道。\n24 问 纽约金泉公司愿意向您出借\n25 $8 million。它从哪里取得这笔\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 $8 million？\n2 答 我不知道。\n3 问 是您要求纽约金泉公司\n4 向您出借 $8 million 吗？\n5 答 不是。\n6 问 是谁要求纽约金泉公司\n7 向您出借 $8 million？\n8 答 我的律师。\n9 问 哪位律师？\n10 答 在场的 Aaron Mitchell（阿伦·米切尔）。\n11 问 您是指 Aaron Mitchell 吗？\n12 答 现在我想起他的名字了。\n13 身份不明的发言人：\n仅为\n14 记录起见，我不确定 Mitchell 先生是否已登记\n15 出庭。如果他将在此代表债务人，\n16 适当做法是，他应当提交\n17 出庭登记。\n18 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我相信我今天早些时候确实读过\n19 Mitchell 先生的名字。\n20 身份不明的发言人：\n他尚未提交——\n21 CLAIBORN 女士：\n他确实签署了——\n22 身份不明的发言人：\n——本案中的\n23 出庭登记。\n24 CLAIBORN 女士：\n谢谢。您能\n25 翻译那段话吗？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 官方口译员：\n我没有完全\n2 听清。我知道相距有些远。我\n3 没有——\n4 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n5 问 纽约金泉公司是否有任何银行\n6 账户？\n7 答 我不知道。\n8 问 您是否可以使用纽约金泉公司\n9 的财务账户？\n10 答 不可以。\n11 问 您是否有权代表纽约金泉公司进行\n12 财务交易？\n13 \n14 答 不可以。\n15 私人口译员：\n不。不，那\n16 不是问题。\n17 官方口译员：\n是什么？\n18 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我很乐意重复\n19 这个问题。\n20 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n21 问 您是否有权代表纽约金泉公司进行\n22 财务交易？\n23 郭先生，如果您不回答——如果您\n24 不理解我的问题——\n25 官方口译员：\n他问的是\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5\nFiled 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 他——我是否在问他是否有权使用\n2 ——纽约金泉公司的账户进行\n3 交易。你知道。\n4 CLAIBORN 女士：\n那不是我的问题。\n5 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n6 问 郭先生，您是否获授权代表\n7 纽约金泉公司进行任何种类的\n8 财务交易？\n9 答 不可以。\n10 BALDIGA 先生：\n抱歉，口译员\n11 可能有意见。\n12 CLAIBORN 女士：\n请您翻译一下\n13 好吗？\n14 官方口译员：\n是。她说\n15 这是交易——财务交易的\n16 交易——\n17 私人口译员：\nTransaction（交易）。\n18 官方口译员：\n——交易\n19 以——\n20 私人口译员：\n不是 trading（交易）。\n21 官方口译员：\n他说，\n22 不，他没有——我没有获授权进行\n23 交易、财务交易。\n24 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n25 问 您目前为纽约金泉公司做了什么，\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n1 \n2 答 没有。\n3 问 纽约金泉公司是否支付您儿子\n4 的个人生活费用？\n5 答 我不知道。\n6 问 纽约金泉公司是否支付您女儿\n7 的个人生活费用？\n8 答 我不知道。\n9 问 您是否欠纽约金泉公司任何钱款？\n10 \n11 答 是。\n12 问 多少？\n13 答 大约超过 $21 million。\n14 问 您为何欠纽约金泉公司超过 $21 million？\n15 \n16 答 因为在过去五年里，我被许多债权人\n17 起诉。\n18 问 纽约金泉公司是否——\n19 CLAIBORN 女士：\n抱歉。\n20 官方口译员：\n我刚刚请他\n21 重复一遍。\n22 证人：\n在过去五年里，我一直受到\n23 中国共产党的追击。\n24 官方口译员：\n我没有听到\n25 。请——我请他再重复一\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 42 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 遍。\n\n2 BALDIGA 先生：\n简短——简短回答。\n3 证人：\n在过去五年里，我被\n4 中国共产党设计的一些案件困住——困住，\n5 这些案件由中国共产党设计，\n6 包括过去的那个案件、那个案件。我需要\n7 ——需要支付大笔律师费，所以\n8 这就是我得到纽约金泉公司支持的原因。\n9 这是我欠 $21 million 的主要\n10 原因。\n11 私人口译员：\n口译员\n12 漏译了，律师——律师费。\n13 官方口译员：\n是，我说了\n14 律师费。我说了。我的确说律师费了吗？\n15 私人口译员：\n我不这么认为，\n16 但只要你说了就行。\n17 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n18 问 $21 million 中有多少是\n19 律师费？\n20 官方口译员：\n您能再重复\n21 一遍吗？\n22 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n23 问 $21 million 中有多少——\n24 官方口译员：\n好的。\n25 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 ——由律师费构成？\n2 答 我认为其中大部分是律师费。\n3 问 纽约金泉公司为什么支付您的\n4 律师费？\n5 答 因为纽约金泉公司是我儿子和我家人的\n6 公司，他们非常爱我。他们希望——他们希望我活着，\n7 而不是被我身后的人\n8 杀害。\n9 问 您与纽约金泉公司是否有任何书面\n10 协议？\n11 答 有。\n12 问 什么法律——抱歉。您与纽约金泉公司\n13 有哪些书面协议？\n14 答 这是借款——借钱的协议。\n15 \n16 问 您何时签订该借款协议？\n17 \n18 答 几年前。我知道——我不知道\n19 大致时间。\n20 私人口译员：\n我不记得。\n21 CLAIBORN 女士：\n什么——\n22 官方口译员：\n什么——是，我\n23 不记得时间。\n24 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n25 问 您与纽约金泉公司的法律协议条款是\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5\nFiled 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 什么？抱歉。让我\n2 重新表述。您与纽约金泉公司的书面\n3 协议条款是什么？\n4 答 我不记得。\n5 身份不明的发言人：\n抱歉。您能\n6 重复一下英文吗？\n7 CLAIBORN 女士：\n请继续说那个——\n8 重复。\n9 官方口译员：\n我不\n10 记得。\n11 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n12 问 根据您与纽约金泉公司的该书面\n13 协议，您是否有义务偿还\n14 全部款项？\n15 答 是。\n16 BALDIGA 先生：\n问题还有\n17 后半部分。\n18 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n19 问 即纽约金泉公司代您支付给律师的\n20 全部款项。\n21 答 是。\n22 私人口译员：\n这只是\n23 口译上的差别。例如，口译员没有翻译根据\n24 该协议，您是否有义务将它们全部——\n25 偿还全部——\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\n134 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 46 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 45\n1 偿还所有钱款。所有钱款，也就是，\n2 你知道——\n3 BALDIGA 先生：\n好的。\n4 私人口译员：\n——花在\n5 律师身上的。\n6 BALDIGA 先生：\n也许 Holley 可以澄清\n7 这一点。\n8 私人口译员：\n是。\n9 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n10 问 我要问一个很长的问题。我要\n11 把它分成几个部分。\n12 郭先生，您是否有义务向\n13 纽约金泉公司偿还纽约金泉公司\n14 代您支付给律师的全部\n15 款项？\n16 答 是。\n17 问 该与纽约金泉公司的协议是否为书面\n18 形式？\n19 答 是。\n20 问 那是否就是您几分钟前提到的\n21 同一份书面协议？\n22 答 是。\n23 问 您是否与纽约金泉公司订有不止一份书面\n24 协议？\n25 答 是。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5\nFiled 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 您与纽约金泉公司的其他书面协议\n2 是什么？\n3 答 过去一周，我与 Logan Cheng（罗根·程）\n4 有一个案件。与 Logan Cheng 的和解，和解\n5 所用的钱——用于和解的钱，是我向\n6 纽约金泉公司借的钱。\n7 问 您与纽约金泉公司还有其他书面协议\n8 吗？\n9 答 我不记得。\n10 问 纽约金泉公司是否与在诉讼中\n11 代理您的任何律师订有费用\n12 协议？\n13 郭先生，您能——您能回答吗？\n14 官方口译员：\n任何协议\n15 与——您能再重复一遍吗？\n16 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n17 问 纽约金泉公司是否与任何在诉讼中\n18 代理郭先生的律师订有——任何种类的\n19 费用协议？\n20 答 我不知道。\n21 问 郭先生，在您于伦敦对 UBS（瑞银）提起的\n22 诉讼中，是谁代理您？\n23 答 伦敦的一家律师——律师事务所。\n24 问 名称是什么？\n25 答 我不完全记得那个\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 英文名称。\n2 问 纽约金泉公司是否与该伦敦律师\n3 订有费用协议？\n4 答 应当有。\n5 BALDIGA 先生：\n抱歉。回答是\n6 什么？\n7 官方口译员：\n应当有。\n8 由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n9 问 您知道它是否确实有——有\n10 费用协议吗？\n11 答 我不确定。\n12 问 纽约金泉公司中授权支付您诉讼\n13 费用的人是谁？\n14 答 我儿子。\n15 问 您的儿子为了将纽约金泉公司的资金\n16 用于您的利益，是否必须与其他任何人\n17 商议？\n18 答 是。\n19 问 您的儿子需要与谁商议？\n20 答 他需要与我的家庭成员商议，\n21 其中包括超过 100 名家庭成员，\n22 因为他们有一项基金。\n24 私人口译员：\n那个——\n25 数字是 181。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\n134 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 49 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 48\n1 由 CLAIBORN 女士：\n2 问 Kwok 先生，如果您的儿子想给您\n3 $100，他是否必须向\n4 Golden Spring New York（纽约黄金泉）的某人寻求授权？\n5 答 我不知道。\n6 问 当您说您的儿子必须与\n7 Golden Spring New York 的某人交谈时，他\n8 需要与多少人交谈？\n9 答 我不知道细节。\n10 问 关于 Golden Spring New York 愿意\n11 向您出借的 $8 million，您的儿子\n12 是否必须获得 Golden Spring New York 其他人员对\n13 该交易的同意？\n14 答 我不知道。\n15 问 您是否曾去过 Golden Spring\n16 New York 位于纽约市的办公室？\n17 答 去过。\n18 问 您多长时间去一次 Golden Spring\n19 New York 位于纽约市的办公室？\n20 答 不——不固定。有时我一个月去那里\n21 几次。有时我已经——我已经\n22 几个月没去那里了。\n23 问 您上一次去 Golden Spring New York\n24 办公室是什么时候？\n25 答 昨天。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 您为什么去？\n2 答 为准备今天的会议。\n3 问 您的儿子是否与 Yanping Wang（王燕平）\n4 谈过 $8 million 贷款？\n5 答 我不知道。\n6 问 您是否就 Golden Spring New York 提供的 $8\n7 million 贷款条款进行了谈判？\n8 答 没有。\n9 问 代表您谈判该 $8\n10 million 贷款的人是谁？\n11 答 我的律师。\n12 问 哪位律师？\n13 答 Aaron Mitchell（艾伦·米切尔）。\n14 问 律师 Aaron Mitchell 在 Golden Spring New York\n15 与谁就该贷款进行了谈判？\n16 官方口译员：\n请重复\n17 一遍。\n18 由 CLAIBORN 女士：\n19 问 律师 Aaron Mitchell 在 Golden Spring New York\n20 与谁就该贷款进行了谈判？\n21 答 我不知道。我的儿子。\n22 问 您是否于 February 2022 从\n23 Lamp Capital, LLC（蓝普资本有限责任公司）借得 $1 million？\n24 答 是。\n25 问 该笔来自 Lamp Capital, LLC 的贷款是否有\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 书面文件？\n2 答 没有。\n3 问 来自 Lamp Capital 的贷款\n4 条款是什么？\n5 答 我不知道细节。\n6 问 Lamp Capital, LLC 的成员是谁？\n7 答 我的儿子。\n8 问 Lamp\n9 Capital, LLC 是否还有其他成员？\n10 答 我不知道。\n11 问 Lamp\n12 Capital, LLC 的管理成员是谁？\n13 答 我不知道。\n14 问 Lamp Capital 中授权\n15 该贷款的人是谁？\n16 答 我的儿子。\n17 问 Lamp Capital, LLC 的资产是什么？\n18 答 我不知道。\n19 问 Lamp Capital 拥有什么？\n20 答 我不知道。\n21 问 您是否曾以任何\n22 方式为 Lamp Capital 提供资金？\n23 答 没有。\n24 问 您是否曾向 Lamp\n25 Capital, LLC 投资任何资金？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\n134 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 52 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 51\n1 答 没有。\n2 问 为什么是 Lamp Capital 向您出借 $1\n3 million，而不是 Golden Spring New York？\n4 答 我不知道。\n5 问 Lamp Capital 向您出借的 $1 million\n6 的来源是什么？\n7 答 我不知道。\n8 CLAIBORN 女士： 我们休息五\n9 分钟去洗手间怎么样？我们实际于\n10 12:10 重新开始。\n11 （休庭）\n12 CLAIBORN 女士： 短暂休息后，我们重新\n13 开始记录。\n14 Kwok 先生，您仍在宣誓状态。\n15 由 CLAIBORN 女士：\n16 问 Kwok 先生，您是否参与了\n17 选择在伦敦代理您诉讼的\n18 律师？\n19 答 是。\n20 问 您的伦敦律师是否要求\n21 预付聘金？\n22 答 是。\n23 问 您是否向您的伦敦律师支付了\n24 预付聘金？\n25 答 是。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 问 多少？\n2 答 300,000 pound。\n3 问 该笔 300,000 pound 预付聘金\n4 是在何时支付的？\n5 答 大约两年前。\n6 问 谁为该预付聘金提供资金？\n7 答 我的儿子帮助支付——支付了那笔钱。\n8 问 您的儿子是否支付了全部预付聘金？\n9 答 是。\n10 问 您的儿子是否从其\n11 个人资金中支付该预付聘金？\n12 答 应当来自该公司，England（英国）。\n13 问 支付该预付聘金的公司的\n14 名称是什么？\n15 答 我不记得。\n16 问 Golden Spring New York 是否向您的\n17 伦敦律师支付了预付聘金？\n18 答 我不记得细节，因为除了\n19 预付聘金以及其他——其后\n20 另外几笔付款外。\n21 问 Kwok 先生，如果您想去买一双\n22 鞋，您会如何支付一双鞋的费用？\n23 答 我会要求 Golden Spring New York\n24 支付。\n25 问 该程序会如何进行？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\n134 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 54 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 53\n1 答 我会与董事和 E Wa\n2 Wang（王娥华，音）交谈，并请她联系——与我的儿子交谈，\n3 并支付鞋款。\n4 问 鞋业公司如何取得款项？\n5 鞋店。\n6 答 我不知道。通常是 E Wa Wang 与其\n7 沟通，因为我的英语能力不足以\n8 进行沟通。\n9 问 如果您去了商店，试穿了鞋子，\n10 并想从商店把鞋子带回家，您会\n11 如何支付鞋款？\n12 答 近几年，我基本从未\n13 买过一双鞋。\n14 问 您最后一次支付的东西是什么？\n15 答 最近，我没有去买任何东西。\n16 BALDIGA 先生： 抱歉。您能重复\n17 一遍吗？\n18 官方口译员： 最近，我\n19 没有去买任何东西。\n20 由 CLAIBORN 女士：\n21 问 我的问题不是最近。我的问题是，\n22 您最后购买的东西是什么？\n23 答 我不记得。\n24 问 您是否曾在餐厅用餐？\n25 答 近几年，没有。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 55 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n1 问\n在 COVID 19 之前，您是否在\n2 餐厅用餐？\n3 答\n极少，因为我害怕被我身后的人\n4 杀害，因为我一直\n5 处于被追捕的过程中。\n6 问\n您在餐厅用餐时，是否由您\n7 支付账单？\n8 答\n我没有钱支付，所以这就是我\n9 不去那里的原因。\n10 问\nKwok 先生，如果您想去买一杯\n11 咖啡，您会如何支付？\n12 答\n我从未买过一杯咖啡。我——\n13 我害怕我身后的人会在\n14 咖啡中给我下毒。\n15 问\nKwok 先生，如果您想买水，\n16 您外出时想买水，您会\n17 如何支付？\n18 答\n嗯，自 2107 起，我没有——我没有去\n19 外面买水。\n20 私人口译员：\n其中有一个\n21 （听不清）语义差异。\n22 官方口译员：\n您能——您能\n23 重复一下——您能重复——\n24 证人：\n自 2017 起，我从未\n25 外出、四处走动，然后买水或咖啡。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 由 CLAIBORN 女士：\n2 问 Kwok 先生，您是否持有任何\n3 共同基金权益？\n4 答 没有。\n5 问 您是否拥有任何债券？\n6 答 没有。\n7 问 您是否拥有任何公司的\n8 公开交易股票？\n9 答 没有。\n10 问 您是否拥有任何汽车？\n11 答 没有。\n12 问 您是否可以使用任何汽车？\n13 答 可以。\n14 问 您可以使用谁的汽车？\n15 答 我儿子的和 Golden Springs 的。\n16 问 Golden Spring 是否为您提供一辆\n17 供您使用的汽车？\n18 答 是。\n19 问 那是什么类型的汽车？\n20 答 Maybach（迈巴赫）。\n21 私人口译员：\nMaybach。\n22 官方口译员：\n什么？\n23 私人口译员：\nMaybach。\n24 官方口译员：\nMaybach？\n好的。\n25 我不知道它的名称。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 证人：\nMaybach。\n2 由 CLAIBORN 女士：\n3 问 Kwok 先生，您有驾驶执照吗？\n4 答 我有 Hong Kong（香港）的驾驶执照。\n5 问 您在 United States（美国）开车吗？\n6 答 几乎不开。\n7 问 您开车时，开谁的车？\n8 答 Golden Spring 的。\n9 问 您在 Greenwich（格林尼治）的住所\n10 停放一辆汽车吗？\n11 答 是。\n12 问 那是什么车？\n13 答 Maybach。\n14 问 您是否拥有任何飞机？\n15 答 没有。\n16 问 您是否曾拥有任何飞机？\n17 答 以前有。\n18 问 您何时拥有飞机？\n19 答 大概 2010 至 2016 年。\n20 问 您拥有多少架飞机？\n21 答 一架。\n22 问 那是什么？\n23 答 Airbus 319（空中客车 319）。319。\n24 问 Airbus 319 后来怎么样了？\n25 答 它被 UBS（瑞银集团）和 Chinese\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 Communist Party（中国共产党）没收了。\n2 问 好的。您是否拥有任何水上\n3 交通工具？\n4 答 没有。\n5 问 谁拥有名为 Lady May（“Lady May”号）\n6 的游艇？\n7 答 我的女儿。\n8 问 您的女儿是否以其\n9 个人名义拥有 Lady May？\n10 答 应当是由一家公司拥有。\n11 问 拥有 Lady May 的公司的\n12 名称是什么？\n13 答 我不知道。\n14 问 Lady May 目前在哪里？\n15 答 我不知道。\n16 问 自提交破产申请以来，您是否\n17 要求您的女儿将 Lady May 返还至 New\n18 York？\n19 答 我确实要求过她，并要求她与其\n20 律师交谈，将该船返还至 New York。\n21 问 您何时进行过该谈话？\n22 答 上个月，在开庭日期之后。在\n23 与您会面之后。\n24 问 您的女儿说了什么？\n25 答 她说她会与其\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\n134 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 59 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 58\n1 律师交谈，然后与我的律师交谈。\n2 问 您的女儿是否同意将 Lady\n3 May 返还至 New York？\n4 答 她不愿与我详细交谈。她想——她想与她的\n5 律师交谈。\n6 问 对于您要求她将 Lady May 返还至 New York\n7 的请求，您的女儿是否说了不？\n8 答 没有，他没有——她没有。\n9 私人口译员： 该问题\n10 没有被完整口译。\n11 官方口译员： 我知道，但她\n12 ——她已经——他已经回答了，并且——\n13 BALDIGA 先生： 等他讲完。\n14 证人： 没有，他——没有。\n15 由 CLAIBORN 女士：\n16 问 Kwok 先生，您是否拥有或持有任何\n17 信托权益？\n18 答 没有。\n19 问 您是否为任何信托的受益人？\n20 答 没有。\n21 问 这是一个很长的问题。Kwok 先生，关于您\n22 针对 Baosheng Guo（郭宝胜）提起的诉讼，向您支付的\n23 $12,000 支票在哪里？\n24 答 在律师的托管账户中。\n25 问 持有该支票的律师姓名是什么？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\n134 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 60 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022 59\n1 答 我无法完整说出该律师的姓名。\n2 \n3 问 该律师的名字是什么？\n4 答 我不能——我无法读出——\n5 ——说出他的姓名。\n6 问 持有该支票的律师是否就是在该\n7 诉讼中代理您的律师？\n8 \n9 答 应当是。\n10 问 在您的 Schedule A-B（附表 A-B）中，您没有披露\n11 该 $12,000 支票。为什么？\n12 BALDIGA 先生： 等问题问完。不。\n13 他能翻译吗？\n14 由 CLAIBORN 女士：\n15 问 您为什么没有披露该 $12,000\n16 支票？\n17 答 我的律师认为，因为该款项不在\n18 我的账户中，所以我不被允许——我们不——\n19 我不应当披露该款项。\n20 问 好的。Kwok 先生，您有任何专利吗？\n21 答 没有。\n22 问 您有任何著作权吗？\n23 答 没有。\n24 问 您拥有任何种类的\n25 知识产权吗？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5\nFiled 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n1 答\n没有。\n2 BALDIGA 先生：\n不好意思。Holley（霍莉），我不\n3 确定您是否会回到这个问题，但其中\n4 提到了 $12,000。\n5 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我看到了。\n6 BALDIGA 先生：\n哦，您说他没有\n7 披露。\n8 CLAIBORN 女士：\n他没有。该款项并未\n9 作为对 Schedule A-B 问题的答复列出。\n10 BALDIGA 先生：\n就在那里。\n11 CLAIBORN 女士：\n我们可以对\n12 其是否已披露存在分歧，但我的立场是\n13 该款项未被披露。我理解您可能\n14 持不同立场。\n15 由 CLAIBORN 女士：\n16 问\nKwok 先生，您是否拥有一家名为\n17 Ace Decade Holdings Limited（艾斯十年控股有限公司）的公司的任何权益？\n18 答\n是。\n19 问\n您在 Ace Decade Holdings Limited 中的\n20 所有权权益性质是什么？\n21 答\n因此，我拥有该权益，并要求 UBS\n22 返还 $500 million。就是那种权益。\n23 问\n您是否为 Ace Decade\n24 Holdings Limited 唯一的合法所有人？\n25 官方口译员：\n您是否为\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5\nFiled 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok - April 6, 2022\n\n仅仅——你能重复一下那个问题吗？\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士（Claiborn）提问：\n\n问 您是 Ace Decades 唯一的合法所有人吗？\n\n答 我是其法定代表所有人。\n\n问 Ace Decade 还有其他所有人吗？\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 您何时成为 Ace Decade Holdings Limited 的所有人？\n\n答 2014 年底。\n\n问 这是一个很长的问题。在您于伦敦对 UBS 提起的诉讼中，您是个人原告。您作为个人原告提出索赔的依据是什么？\n\n答 因为我是 Ace Decade 的百分之百代表人。\n\n问 在伦敦针对 UBS 的诉讼中，有一项指称称 Ace Decade 向 Dawn State Limited 提供了 \\$500 million。Ace Decade 从哪里获得这 \\$500 million？\n\n答 我从家人那里借款。\n\n问 您从家人那里借钱并将其交给 Ace Decade 吗？\n\n答 是。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：我认为那不是——\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5\nFiled 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n让我们重新开始，因为我认为那不是——那是——\n\n私人口译员：是的，我原以为那是——\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：——那才是问题，因为它并未涉及 Dawn State——\n\n私人口译员：是。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：——所以我要重新开始。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n\n问 您从哪里获得交给 Ace Decade 的钱，即那 500 million？\n\nBALDIGA 先生（Baldiga）：我不认为他说过他做了那件事。我认为他说是他的家人做了那件事，但您可以问那个问题，不过我——\n\n证人：从我的家人那里。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n\n问 具体是您家中的谁给了您钱，而您随后将其交给 Ace Decade？\n\n答 John Way（韦约翰）（发音不确定）。\n\n问 John Way 是谁？\n\n答 我的一名家庭成员。\n\n问 他是您的亲属吗？\n\n答 他是我哥哥的表亲，或者——\n\n私人口译员：女婿。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5\nFiled 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n官方口译员：女婿？好的。抱歉。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n\n问 在您的附表 A-B 中，您列有一项针对 Boise Schiller 的可能的律师执业过失索赔。您能否说明那是什么？\n\n答 他是那个——他是在纽约代理我对 UBS 提起诉讼的人。他未经我的许可向法院提交了许多被强迫的文件。他还威胁我的家人。他还在饮酒后威胁我本人。他给我们造成了许多损失，包括在向——向律师或法官提交任何英中译文文件之前，没有向我提供这些文件。这就是为什么我——这就是为什么我们起诉他。\n\n问 您是否已聘请律师在该律师执业过失诉讼中代理您？\n\n答 我儿子正在处理此事。\n\n问 为什么您儿子正在就您的律师执业过失索赔与律师交谈？\n\n答 因为我需要向他借钱。\n\n问 是否已选定律师？\n\n答 尚未。\n\n问 Kwok 先生，除 Ace Decade 外，您是否拥有任何公司的权益？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 65 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n答 没有，但——我拥有 Bravo Luck、那套公寓，仅数月期间的一部分权益。由于该公寓是合作公寓，所以他们用我的名字购买了该公寓；在我——在我们购买公寓后，我们随后将股份权益返还。\n\n身份不明的发言者：抱歉。他一定讲了 30、40 秒。显然说得不止这些。是否有更完整的翻译？\n\n官方口译员：我是否遗漏了什么？\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：让我看看能否追问一下。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n\n问 Kwok 先生，您目前是否拥有 Bravo Luck 的权益？\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 Kwok 先生，您是否拥有任何有限责任公司的权益？\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 Kwok 先生，您是否拥有任何合伙企业的权益？\n\n答 我过去拥有一家飞机公司，名为 Orange 或 Shiny Time，但那是在以前，而且\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5\nFiled 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n已经不存在了。\n\n问 Kwok 先生，您目前是否拥有任何合伙企业的权益？\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 Kwok 先生，您目前是否拥有任何合资企业的权益？\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 除 Ace Decade 外，您现在是否拥有任何其他公司的权益？\n\n答 没有。我以前只拥有 Orange 和 Shiny Time，但现在没有。\n\n问 Golden Spring New York 是否对您的任何诉讼享有担保权益？\n\n答 我欠他们钱。\n\n问 您是否已向 Golden Spring New York 授予您任何资产、您拥有的任何东西的任何权益？\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 那么，如果您赢得针对 Golden Spring 的诉讼——抱歉。名字错了。那么，如果您赢得针对 UBS 的诉讼，您赢得的任何款项是否必须支付给 Golden Spring？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 金额是多少？\n\n答 此前是 2,200 1 million，或者——\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\n134 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 67 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 66\n\n私人口译员：21 million。\n\n证人：21 million。21 million，加上现在。大概是 300 million。30 million。或者 30 million。是。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n\n问 是否有文件规定您收到的任何诉讼胜诉所得须支付给 Golden Spring？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 该文件的名称是什么？\n\n官方口译员：我要请他重复一下。我没有听到。我只是请他分开说，然后我没有听到什么——\n\n证人：我在 DC 有一个案件。有一家律师事务所为我的政治庇护提供代理，该所遭到中国共产党的网络攻击，因此他们——该律师事务所关闭了，并将我的个人信息交给共产党，然后我起诉了他们。该诉讼费用、律师费，来自 Golden Spring New York。我要求 50,000——\\$50 million 的索赔。如果我赢得那笔钱，我会将钱还给 Golden Springs，以偿还他们为我的律师费提供支持的款项。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22 Entered 10/04/22 11:50:18 Page 68 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n私人口译员：Kwok 先生没有说和解。Kwok 先生只是说，为一项索赔，而非和解。\n\n官方口译员：您要求 \\$50 million。是。他为该诉讼要求 \\$50 million，如果他赢——如果他赢得这笔钱，那么他将把钱还给 Golden Spring New York。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n\n问 我的问题是，根据何种文件，您将就您的诉讼向 Golden Spring 偿还款项？\n\n答 该文件是我——\n\n官方口译员：您能重复一下那句话吗？\n\n证人：该协议是——是该协议，我从 Golden Spring New York 借钱起诉该律师事务所。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n\n问 该协议的名称是什么？\n\n答 我不记得。\n\n问 它是一张本票吗？\n\n答 我不记得。\n\n问 它是一份合同吗？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n答 我记不清楚。\n\n问 谁准备了该文件？\n\n答 律师。\n\n问 准备该文件的律师叫什么名字？\n\n答 Melissa。\n\n问 Melissa 的姓氏是什么？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 律师 Melissa 是否在起草该文件时代理您？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 在起草该文件时，谁代理 Golden Spring？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 Golden Spring 是否有任何律师？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 您只是不记得是谁？\n\n答 他们有很多律师。\n\n问 根据您欠 Golden Spring New York 款项的书面协议，是否有一份以上？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 有多少份协议？\n\n答 大概两三份，或者三四份。我记不清楚。\n\n问 是否有人记录您从 Golden Spring New York 借取的款项？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5\nFiled 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\n答 我的律师会记下来。我们有记录。\n\n问 该律师的姓名是什么？\n\n答 Aaron Mitchell（米切尔）。\n\n问 您说的是 Aaron Mitchell 吗？\n\n答 哦，是。\n\n问 Aaron Mitchell 如何记录您从 Golden Spring New York 借取的款项？\n\n答 具体情况我不知道。\n\n问 Golden Spring New York 雇用的任何人是否记录您从 Golden Spring New York 借取的款项？\n\n答 我不知道。\n\n问 您是否曾看过律师 Aaron Mitchell 出具的、显示您欠 Golden Spring New York 多少钱的文件？\n\n答 这是我——这是我与我的律师之间的事，我不应回答。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：我可以——我的意思是——\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：我认为该问题并不涉及——\n\nBALDIGA 先生：您可以——\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：——受特权保护的答复。\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5\nFiled 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\nBALDIGA 先生：那是——给我一点时间。您可以对最后一个问题回答“是”或“否”，所以如果您再次提问，我认为他会回答“是”或“否”，然后我们可以一步一步进行。\n\n由 CLAIBORN 女士提问：\n\n问 您是否曾看过律师 Mitchell 准备的、显示您从 Golden Spring 借了多少钱的文件？\n\nBALDIGA 先生：等等。等等，我的指示需要被口译。\n\n官方口译员：什么？\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：您能——\n\nBALDIGA 先生：您需要指示——\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：请直接说出来，他会重新口译。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：请告诉证人，我告诉证人他只能回答“是”或“否”。\n\n证人：是。\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：我还有其他问题，但鉴于当天时间，我认为我们可以短暂休庭，然后恢复进行，并给予债权人提问的机会。我建议我们在 1:15 恢复进行。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：这样可以吗？\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5 Filed 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：可以。谢谢。我们将在 1:15 恢复进行。\n\n（休庭。）\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：录音已恢复。我们在短暂休庭后恢复开庭，Kwok 先生，您仍在宣誓之下。\n\n此时，Wolman 先生（沃尔曼）有一些问题要问您，Kwok 先生。\n\n由 WOLMAN 先生进行询问：\n\n问 下午好，Kwok 先生。3 月 21 日，我曾向您询问有关先前一次证言录取的一些问题，具体是关于您曾援引《美国宪法》第五修正案权利的次数。2021 年 4 月 1 日，您是否因任何犯罪而受到调查？\n\n官方口译员：4 月 21 日？\n\nWOLMAN 先生：2021 年 4 月 1 日。\n\n官方口译员：先生，您能重复一下那个问题吗？\n\n问 您是否因任何犯罪而受到调查？\n\n答 来自 SET——美国 SET 正在调查 GTV，他们可以与我们的律师沟通。\n\n问 您指的是 Securities and\n\nCase 22-50073 Doc 913-5\nFiled 10/04/22\nEntered 10/04/22 11:50:18\n134 Page 73 of\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）- April 6, 2022 72\n\nExchange Commission（美国证券交易委员会）吗？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 他们究竟在调查什么？\n\nBALDIGA 先生：异议。\n\n我需要询问这是否会披露受特权保护的信息。\n\n您对上一个问题的回答是否会是来自您律师的信息？\n\n私人口译员：我能否——\n\n官方口译员：她想帮忙。\n\n私人口译员：因为他不是——\n\nCLAIBORN 女士：我认为您应当再试一次。Baldiga 先生，也许您可以重复一遍，Jack 先生，您可以再试一次。\n\n官方口译员：您能重复您想说的话吗？\n\nBALDIGA 先生：Wolman 先生问您，您正因什么而受到调查。您所知道的信息，是否由您的律师向您提供？\n\n证人：是。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：而回答该问题，您是否必须披露别人向您所说的内容？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22 录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18 第 74 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n1 律师？\n2 官方口译员：必须是什么？\n3 披露？\n4 BALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加先生）：\n您是否必须说出\n5 您的律师告诉了您什么？\n6 证人：是。\n7 BALDIGA先生：那么我指示证人\n8 基于律师—当事人\n9 保密特权，不予回答。\n10 WOLMAN先生（沃尔曼先生）：那不是律师—当事人\n11 信息。\n12 BALDIGA先生：等一下。让其\n13 被翻译。\n14 WOLMAN先生：从一名\n15 律师处获知的信息，如并非专门为提供建议或接收\n16 信息之目的而进行的沟通，\n17 就不是受特权保护的信息。如果您的\n18 律师说天空是蓝色的，那不是\n19 受特权保护的沟通。\n20 BALDIGA先生：他在跟我争论。\n21 没有向您提出问题。\n22 WOLMAN先生：Baldiga先生，您是否将\n23 继续指示您的当事人不当地援引\n24 律师—当事人保密特权？\n25 BALDIGA先生：我将就每一个问题作出指示。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5\n提交日期 10/04/22\n录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 逐个问题。\n2 WOLMAN先生：就这个问题，您是否将\n3 维持该指示？\n4 Kwok先生，您是否拒绝回答我的\n5 问题？\n6 证人：是。\n7 WOLMAN先生：您基于什么理由\n8 拒绝回答我的问题？\n9 BALDIGA先生：基于律师的指示，\n10 理由是律师—当事人\n11 保密特权。\n12 证人：由于我与律师之间的\n13 保密特权，我不能回答\n14 该问题。\n15 WOLMAN先生询问：\n16 问 您是否曾被美国证券交易委员会（Securities and Exchange Commission）\n17 正式指控？\n18 答 没有。\n19 问 美国证券交易委员会\n20 是否已结束对您的调查？\n21 BALDIGA先生：我必须再次说明，若您知道，\n22 您可以回答是或否。\n23 答 没有。\n24 问 美国证券交易委员会\n25 是否对GTV（GTV）提出过任何指控？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22\n录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 我不知道。\n2 问 在过去五年中，您是否曾接受美国国税局（U.S. Internal Revenue Service）\n3 的审计？\n4 \n5 答 没有。\n6 问 在过去五年中，您是否曾接受纽约州税务\n7 机关的审计？\n8 \n9 答 没有。\n10 问 您何时成为康涅狄格州（Connecticut）的居民？\n11 具体是哪一天？\n12 答 大约是2020年3月初。\n13 问 为明确起见，您称您于2020年3月\n14 是康涅狄格州居民？\n15 答 是。\n16 问 那么，为什么在Cheng先生、即我的当事人、\n17 对您提起的诉讼中，您签署了一份宣誓\n18 陈述，表明您是Sherry Netherlands Hotel（谢里荷兰酒店）\n19 的居民？\n20 官方口译员：律师，您能重复一下\n21 吗？\n22 问 如果您于2020年3月是康涅狄格州居民，\n23 您却在Cheng先生对您提起的诉讼中签署了一份宣誓陈述，\n24 称您居住于\n25 Sherry Netherlands Hotel（谢里荷兰酒店）。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22\n录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 我并非100%居住在康涅狄格州，\n2 但有时我也住在纽约。\n3 问 您何时开始有超过50%的时间居住在康涅狄格州？\n4 \n5 答 自2020年3月起。\n6 问 您称有一些资产被中国没收，对吗？\n7 \n8 答 那不是我的。那是我家人的。\n那是\n9 我家人的。\n10 问 您是否曾有任何资产被中国没收？\n11 答 您是指以我的名义吗？\n12 问 是。\n13 答 没有。\n14 问 好。2010年，您的\n15 个人净资产是多少？\n16 答 没有。\n17 问 那不是一个是或否的问题。\n18 官方口译员：我可以再次重复\n19 您的问题吗？\n20 WOLMAN先生：可以。\n21 问 2010年，您的个人净资产是多少？\n22 答 我没有任何财产。\n23 问 您是否曾有以您名义登记的、价值超过\n24 \\$1 million 的财产；这里包括您在某公司拥有的权益，而该权益\n25 因此对您的资产有贡献？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22\n录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 因此对您的净资产有贡献？\n2 答 2000年以前，有。\n3 问 好的。您在1999年的净资产是多少？\n4 答 我从未详细计算过。\n5 问 您估计是多少？\n6 答 大约1亿。\n7 问 那价值 \\$100 million 的资产\n8 后来怎么样了？\n9 答 因为2000年我取得了一本香港护照，\n10 而在中国，他们不允许我拥有任何\n11 财产、资产。\n12 问 您是否已放弃对您于1999年拥有的任何\n13 资产提出的所有权利主张？\n14 答 是。\n15 问 您为什么放弃您的权利主张？\n16 官方口译员：放弃什么？\n17 问 您对那些资产的权利主张？\n18 答 因为我不被允许在中国拥有任何\n19 资产。\n20 问 如果中国改变其政策，您是否有任何权利或能力\n21 取回那些资产？\n22 BALDIGA先生：异议。如果您知道，\n23 可以回答。\n24 答 我不知道。\n25 问 您在1999年最大的资产是什么？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22\n录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 有一家酒店的资产，即在中国一家酒店的\n2 股权权益。\n3 问 现在谁持有该权益？\n4 答 中国共产党。\n5 问 该权益是否以该党的名义持有？\n6 答 中国只有一个独裁政府，\n7 即该党，我们家族的资产被他们拿走——\n8 被他们没收。\n9 问 您的儿子如何变得富有到足以\n10 为Golden Spring（高盛春）和Lamp Capital（蓝普资本）提供资金？\n11 答 因为他很早就开始进行\n12 投资，也将品牌引入中国。\n13 问 他的投资资金从何而来？\n14 \n15 答 我不知道。\n16 问 Claiborn女士（克莱伯恩女士）曾询问您有关\n17 与Golden Spring的协议，而您无法确认\n18 Golden Spring的律师是谁。您是否记得\n19 此事？\n20 答 是的。\n21 问 我想尝试唤起——可能请您\n22 回忆一下，那名律师是否叫Daniel？\n23 \n24 官方口译员：他在问\n25 Daniel？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5\n提交日期 10/04/22\n录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 是，Daniel Pedolsky（丹尼尔·佩多尔斯基）。\n2 答 是，可能是；他曾是Golden Spring的\n3 律师，也是我的个人律师。\n4 问 您是否与Pedolsky先生签署了利益冲突\n5 豁免？\n6 官方口译员：您能重复一下\n7 吗？\n8 问 您是否与律师Daniel Pedolsky签署了利益冲突\n9 豁免？\n10 答 我不记得。\n11 问 您提到与Golden Spring签订了两三份——或者三四份\n12 协议。您能确认\n13 每一份协议吗？\n14 答 我不确定。\n15 问 您能说明每一份\n16 协议的目的是什么吗？\n17 答 Golden Spring的那笔贷款是为了与\n18 Logan Cheng（郑乐成）达成和解。\n19 问 您是否曾取得贷款，以支付律师费用来起诉Logan Cheng？\n20 \n21 答 我不记得。\n22 问 除与Cheng先生有关的协议外，其他协议是什么？\n23 \n24 答 来自D.C.——D.C.的律师事务所收取（无法辨认）\n25 我不记得该名称。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22 录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18 第 81 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 名称。WOLMAN先生：好的。谢谢您，我现在必须离开了，但谢谢您。我会尝试拨入。CLAIBORN女士：谢谢。请问在线上的任何人能否将自己静音，因为可以听到您打字的声音。好的。还有谁想提问？Harbach先生（哈巴赫先生）。请开始，Harbach先生。HARBACH先生：谢谢。为记录在案，我是O'Melveny and Meyers（奥迈律师事务所）的David Harbach（戴维·哈巴赫），我代表PAACS（PAACS）。HARBACH先生询问：问 Kwok先生，我想根据Claiborn女士今天向您提出的问题，问您一些澄清性问题。今天早些时候，她问您是否拥有任何外币，您回答没有。她还问您是否拥有任何数字货币，您回答没有。我的问题是，您是否曾代表任何实体下令或指示购买外币或数字货币？\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5\n提交日期 10/04/22\n录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 官方口译员：您能重复一下\n2 吗？\n3 HARBACH先生：当然。\n4 问 我的问题是，您是否曾代表任何实体下令或\n5 指示购买任何外币或任何\n6 数字货币？\n7 答 您所说的“指示”是什么意思？\n8 问 您是否曾指示任何人购买\n9 外币或数字货币？\n10 答 没有。\n11 问 Claiborn女士曾问您几个有关使用信用卡\n12 和借记卡的问题。我想确保我们\n13 清楚了解您的回答，因为她问您的并非您\n14 是否有任何信用卡，而是您是否可以使用\n15 任何信用卡。我想确保您\n16 理解两者的区别。\n17 官方口译员：他只是问您，为什么您想代表Holley女士所提的\n18 \n19 问题。\n20 \n21 HARBACH先生：先生，我只是想提醒\n22 您她今天早些时候问过您的一个问题。\n23 私人口译员：我不\n24 理解这个问题。\n25 BALDIGA先生：Baldiga先生说得对。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22\n134 录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18 第 83 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 82\n1 目前没有待回答的问题。\n2 问 问题是：您是否理解拥有一张信用卡与可以使用一张\n3 信用卡之间的区别？\n4 \n5 答 我相信我没有。\n6 问 您不理解这种区别？\n7 答 我不太了解。\n8 问 好的。那么，让我给您举个例子。\n9 我们谈谈Maybach（迈巴赫）。\n10 我相信您今天向我们表示，\n11 您可以使用Maybach\n12 用于出行。对吗？\n13 答 是。\n14 问 但我相信您的立场也是，\n15 您并不拥有该Maybach。对吗？\n16 答 是。\n17 问 换言之，您的立场是\n18 Maybach不是您的，对吗？\n19 答 是。\n20 问 好的。因此，我用该例子来说明\n21 拥有某物与可以使用某物之间的\n22 区别。这对您有帮助吗？您\n23 理解这种区别吗？\n24 答 现在我明白您的意思了。\n25 问 好的。谢谢。那么回到关于\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22 录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18 第 84 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 信用卡和借记卡的问题。您是否可以使用任何信用卡或借记卡，无论它们是否属于您？答 我不理解他所说的区别，使用是指我自己使用，还是让别人替我使用。问 那么，我们逐一讨论。先从您自己使用开始。是否有任何家庭成员曾向您提供信用卡或信用卡号码供您自己使用？答 我从未使用过。问 您提到的另一个例子是，可能由您的家庭成员代表您使用信用卡。这是否曾发生过？答 您所说的代表我使用是什么意思？问 我问的是，据您所知，是否有任何家庭成员曾使用信用卡或借记卡为您购买物品？答 我的儿子、我的女儿、我的妻子。他们都有信用卡为我购买物品。私人口译员：证人没有说过“使用信用卡为我购买物品”。证人说的是，我的儿子、我的妻子为我购买物品。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22\n134 录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18 第 85 页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 84\n1 官方口译员：是的，他们使用\n2 他们自己的卡，他们两人——他们所有人都有。\n3 他们都有卡。这就是他说的。\n4 （重复口译）\n5 官方口译员：是的，我翻译正确。\n6 \n7 证人：因此，我的妻子、我的儿子\n8 和我的女儿都有各自的卡，其他\n9 家庭成员也使用他们的卡为我购买物品。\n10 问 这是否曾依照您的指示？\n11 答 没有。\n12 问 从未？\n13 答 没有。\n14 问 是否依照您的请求？\n15 答 没有。\n16 问 Yan Ping Wang（王燕平）是否就是Yvette Wang（王伊维特）？\n17 答 是。\n18 问 此前Claiborn女士曾询问您有关\n19 Golden Spring Hong Kong（高盛春香港）。\n20 您告诉她，您的儿子拥有该公司。\n21 您记得吗？\n22 答 是。\n23 问 我的问题是，您的儿子从何时起\n24 拥有Golden Spring Hong Kong？\n25 答 我不知道。\n\n问\n除您儿子外，是否还有其他任何人曾拥有 Golden Spring Hong Kong（香港金泉）的权益？\n\n答\n我不记得。\n\n问\n您还说，您不记得自己是否曾担任 Golden Spring Hong Kong 的公司高管？\n\n官方口译员：\n您能重复一下吗？\n\n问\n您还说，您不记得自己是否曾担任 Golden Spring Hong Kong 的公司高管？这是否意味着您有可能曾是，只是您不确定？\n\n答\n我不记得。\n\n问\n克莱伯恩女士（Ms. Claiborn）曾以几种不同方式问您，您是否知道 Golden Spring New York（纽约金泉）如何获得资金或赚钱。Golden Spring 自何时起开始支付您的个人生活费用？\n\n答\n2015年。\n\n问\n那么大约六七年？\n\n答\n自2015年起，有一个叫 Bruno Wu（布鲁诺·吴）的人来自中国大陆，给我的家人、我的儿子、女儿和妻子打电话，因此从那时起，我开始花来自 Golden Spring New York 的钱。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5\n提交日期 10/04/22\n录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n私人口译员：\n我不认为证人说了“some”。\n\n官方口译员：\n什么？\n\n私人口译员：\n我不认为证人说了“some”。\n\n证人：\n不包括他们抓到的儿子，我的妻子和女儿以及我的许多家人，但不包括我的儿子。\n\n问\n因此，Golden Spring 大约六七年来一直在支付您的个人开支。对吗？\n\n答\n对。\n\n问\n在那六七年期间，您从未与任何家人讨论过钱是从哪里来的吗？\n\n答\n因为我的许多家人被——被您的当事人 Bruno Wu 逮捕了，所以我没有联系。我无法与他们沟通。\n\n私人口译员：\n不完全是。PAACS 的合伙人——该律师所代理的合伙人，PAACS——PAACS 的合伙人——\n\n官方口译员：\n我不知道。他没有提到 PAACS 的任何事情。\n\n证人：\n因此，是代理当事人 Bruno Wu 的另一位律师逮捕了你们的许多家人。您当事人的前合伙人，其中一名合伙人，（听不清）Bruno Wu，逮捕了你们的许多家人，所以您无法与他们沟通。\n\n问\n自2015年以来，您是否曾与您的女儿、妻子或儿子联系？\n\n答\n是。\n\n问\n在您与这三人中任何一人联系的任何时候，您是否曾问过他们 Golden Spring 的钱是从哪里来的？\n\n答\n是，我问过。\n\n问\n您问了谁？\n\n答\n我问了他们三人。\n\n问\n他们怎么说？\n\n答\n他们告诉我，因为我处于被追捕的境地，所以不要询问我们自己的财务信息。不要向我索要任何东西，我们会帮助您——我们会尽我们所能帮助您。\n\n问\n那是在什么时候？\n\n答\n2017年之后。\n\n问\n2017年之后多久？\n\n答\n我不记得。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5\n提交日期 10/04/22\n录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问\n您与家人进行这次谈话时，他们三人是在一起，还是分别进行的谈话？\n\n答\n分别进行的。\n\n问\n他们三人中的每一人都说了大致相同的话？\n\n答\n类似。\n\n问\n那么我想确认我理解正确。您问了他们每一人 Golden Spring 的钱是从哪里来的，而他们每一人都对您说，不要问我这个，因为——请您替我说完这句话。\n\n答\n所以您在编造我不理解的故事。\n\n问\n我是在请您帮助我理解。我试图理解您的家人告诉您不要问 Golden Spring 从哪里得到这些钱的原因，为什么您的家人告诉您不要问。\n\n巴尔迪加先生（MR. BALDIGA）：\n让他问您一个问题。\n\n问\n请告诉我，为什么您的每一位家人都告诉您不要问他们 Golden Spring 的钱是从哪里来的？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n反对。如果您知道的话。\n\n官方口译员：\n您是在反对这个问题？\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n我反对了。\n\n官方口译员：\n哦，您反对了。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n如果他知道，我允许他回答。\n\n官方口译员：\n好的。\n\n证人：\n我的女儿和妻子被他的合伙人逮捕，于2017年获释，并被释放到纽约。她们遭到共产党极其严重的折磨。折磨她们的人是这位律师的合伙人。她们都有自己的律师。她们告诉我，不要询问或与我沟通她们自己的财务和个人信息。您想做任何事情，最好通过律师进行。\n\n这是在她们来到纽约之前，我的家人告诉她们的原则、事情。我只是想告诉您其含义，含义非常相似，但我不能逐字告诉您。\n\n所以我不希望这名律师编造有关我女儿——有关我女儿伪造、作伪证的任何故事。那种故事。\n\n上次我们与霍利女士（Ms. Holley）在这里时，他在编造虚假谎言，说我使用我的 Twitter 账户，说纽约的法官是共产党，而我甚至没有 Twitter 账户。\n\n哈尔巴赫先生（MR. HARBACH）：\n为使记录清楚，今天是我首次在法庭上就本诉讼说出任何一句话。因此，我认为您不是在说我，先生。\n\n证人：\n我说的是上次来自您办公室的律师。您之前的律师叫 Andy Morse（安迪·莫尔斯，音），他因五年来提出虚假主张而被法官赶出去了。所以该律师事务所一直在提出虚假主张。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n只需回答他的问题，因为除非您只是试图回答他的问题，否则我无法知道是否应当反对。\n\n证人：\n我没有分别与我的家人、女儿和妻子谈过并说同样的事情。如果我说同样的事情、同样的话，那就是在编造虚假故事。\n\n哈尔巴赫先生：\n我明白。\n\n证人：\n您不能使用您的想象力并把它放进我的脑子里。这就是为什么纽约南区（Southern District of New York）和法官被他们（听不清），他们给我作出了错误量刑。\n\n身份不明者：\n您能把最后那句话说一下——\n\n证人：\n由于他们的虚假主张，这就是为什么纽约南区的法官、那位法官，给我作出了错误量刑。\n\n私人口译员：\n而且，口译员此前没有完整翻译律师就其反对意见向证人作出的指示。\n\n克莱伯恩女士：\n如果您想重复，请继续。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n我认为您只需要听这些问题，并且只回答这些问题。\n\n哈尔巴赫先生：\n抱歉。律师将转到另一个话题。\n\n哈尔巴赫先生问：\n\n问\n郭先生（Mr. Kwok），克莱伯恩女士今天问了您一笔您欠 Golden Spring 的 $21 million 债务。她问您其中 $21 million 里有多少是律师费，您的回答是“我认为大部分都是”。我想知道您所说的“大部分”是什么意思。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5 提交日期 10/04/22 录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18 第 93 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问\n您的意思是 $11 million，还是接近 $21 million？\n\n答\n我不记得。\n\n问\n您现在仍然认为其中大部分是律师费吗？\n\n答\n我不记得。\n\n问\n您还提到了 Logan Cheng（洛根·程）和解，并且与该和解有关的款项是从 Golden Spring 借来的。\n\n答\n是。\n\n问\n那笔贷款的金额是多少？\n\n答\n我不记得确切数额。可能大约是200。两——$300,000。\n\n问\n该笔来自 Golden Spring 的贷款条款是什么？\n\n答\n我不记得。\n\n问\n克莱伯恩女士问您是否曾去过 Golden Spring 位于纽约的办公室时，您说去过。这些办公室的地址是什么？\n\n答\n是。\n\n问\n这些办公室的地址是什么？\n\n答\n64th Street, 162。\n\n问\n您还提到，您上一次去那里是在昨天，您去那里的原因是为今天的会议做准备。您在那里与谁见面？\n\n答\n我的律师。\n\n问\n您在办公室期间，除您的律师外，是否还与其他任何人为准备今天的会议见面？\n\n答\n我不知道您所说的其他人是什么意思。\n\n问\n那么，您是否与任何为 Golden Spring 工作的人见面？\n\n答\n是，我见了 Yvonne Wang（王伊冯）。\n\n问\n这是昨天的事？\n\n答\n是，我昨天见了她。\n\n问\n您昨天问了她一些问题吗？\n\n答\n没有。\n\n问\n请告诉我您与王女士的谈话情况？\n\n答\n您是什么意思？\n\n问\n那么，我想知道您和她谈了什么。\n\n答\n我请她安排吃的食物和咖啡。\n\n问\n就这些吗？\n\n答\n我们还谈了如何废除共产党。\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5\n提交日期 10/04/22\n录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问\n我想确认我理解正确。我想您说的是——\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n不好意思。我能再听一遍最后那句话吗？\n\n证人：\n我们谈了如何废除共产党。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n谢谢。\n\n问\n王女士是 Golden Spring 的高管，对吗？\n\n答\n是。\n\n问\n您指示她拿咖啡来，对吗？\n\n答\n不，我没有指示她。我只是希望她拿一些咖啡来。\n\n问\n您是希望，还是帮助？\n\n答\n帮助。\n\n问\n您是在帮助。因为我问您的问题是，您与王女士谈了什么。我以为您说您请她拿一些咖啡来，或者甚至告诉她拿一些咖啡来。\n\n答\n不，是您的律师办公室——您律师办公室又在编造和想象事情。\n\n问\n我再问一次这个问题。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n请问一个问题。不要——\n\n案号 22-50073 文件 913-5\n提交日期 10/04/22\n录入日期 10/04/22 11:50:18 第 96 页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n把话塞进他嘴里。\n\n问\n您昨天与王女士讨论了什么？\n\n答\n您想让我详细说吗？我可以谈几个小时。\n\n问\n嗯，不，如果这些细节涉及如何推翻中国共产党。因此我会更精确一些。\n\n答\n所以您不希望我们废除中国共产党。我们的工作是废除中国共产党。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n只回答问题。\n\n证人：\n您没有问题。您只是在指示某件事。\n\n问\n我有时会分段说话，以便口译员翻译。\n\n巴尔迪加先生：\n我认为如果您只是问问题，然后证人——我会指示他回答您的问题。这会有帮助。\n\n问\n您昨天是否与 Yvette（原文如此）讨论过任何与准备今天会议有关的事情？\n\n答\n是。\n\n问\n您讨论了什么？\n\n问：我要求她把那些文件带到这里来。\n\n问：还有别的吗？\n\n答：我不记得了。\n\n问：Lamp Capital（朗普资本）是什么时候设立的？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：为什么设立Lamp Capital？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：是谁设立了Lamp Capital？\n\n答：我儿子。\n\n问：你怎么知道这一点？\n\n答：因为我向我儿子借钱支付律师费。\n\n问：问题是，你怎么知道你儿子设立了Lamp Capital？\n\n答：因为我儿子说过。\n\n问：他亲自告诉你的。\n\n答：是。\n\n问：他有没有向你征求过关于是否设立Lamp Capital的任何意见？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：他有没有问过你的看法，即他是否应当设立Lamp Capital？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：他有没有告诉你他为什么要设立Lamp Capital？\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22\n134 录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18 第98页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日 97\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：当你谈到你针对Boise Schiller（博伊斯·席勒）提出的律师执业过失索赔时，你提到某个人，并一直将其称为“他”。我想知道那个人是谁？\n\n答：我不知道你是什么意思。\n\n问：是的，那是一个不好的问题。我道歉。你陈述说，有人未经你的许可向法院提交虚假文件。此人威胁你的家人，此人在饮酒后威胁你，并且此人给你和你的家人带来许多损失，包括在向法官提交文件前未提供译文。我的问题是，那个人是谁？\n\n答：Schiller（席勒）。席勒律师。\n\n问：所以是Boise Schiller律师事务所的Schiller先生。我理解得对吗？\n\n答：对。\n\n问：谢谢。你是否了解Lamp Capital从事何种业务，如果有的话？\n\n答：不了解。\n\n问：换个话题。你今天在回答问题时多次说，你身后的人做了某些事情。\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22 录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18 第99页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问：你说的是谁？\n\n答：我身后的一个人，有一个老板叫Bruno Wu（吴征）。他支付了那个案件——来自（听不清）的强奸案。这里还有一个债权人，那也是由Bruno Wu支付的。那笔律师费由Bruno Wu支付。Bruno Wu也是他的合伙人，他投资了\\$800 million。Bruno Wu的合伙人也是（听不清）的前任主管，他们正在调查，并且与他们联合了一名合伙人来调查我的案件。因此，在2017年4月18日，这个（听不清）开始起诉我，提起诉讼。在这24小时内，Bruno Wu向我发出红色通缉令，他们开始提起诉讼。\n\nHARBACH先生：我可以打断——\n\n证人：中国共产党阻止了对我的采访，即美国之音（VOA）对我的采访。它们是在同一时间发生的。\n\nHARBACH先生：或者我可以让他说完。\n\n证人：这家律师事务所制作的所有文件都是虚假的。他们向Southern District of New York（纽约南区）法院提供了一份虚假文件。他们甚至对我女儿的游艇提出虚假主张。那艘船是我的。他们向纽约南区法院的法官提出请求，而我两次申请破产——个人破产案件，而且那一天——他们（听不清）两次，包括Holley女士（霍利女士）。Holley女士在场。第一次Holley女士在法庭上时，他们作了虚假证词，说——他们说我女儿就Sherry破产案作了虚假证词，因为我女儿从未参与该案。第二次开庭日期Holley女士也在场。该所的律师对法官说，他们说我使用Twitter账户——他们说在Twitter上，我说纽约南区法官是共产党员。你可以看到，我身后所有的人，其中一个是Bruno Wu，一个人在许多案件中付款——\n\nHARBACH先生：我想问另一个问题。\n\nHARBACH先生问：\n\n问：无论如何，你是否知道你的破产代理律师，即Brown Rudnick律师事务所（布朗·拉德尼克律师事务所），此前是否曾代理Bruno Wu？\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5\n提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n官方口译员：我可以稍微休息一下吗？我实在无法集中那么多注意力。内容太多了。我可以休息一下吗？\n\nCLAIBORN女士（克莱伯恩女士）：我能否请你先问完那个问题，然后我们休息？\n\n官方口译员：可以。你能重复一下那个问题吗？\n\nHARBACH先生：当然可以。\n\n问：无论如何，你是否知道你的破产代理律师，即Brown Rudnick律师事务所，此前是否曾代理Bruno Wu？\n\n官方口译员：你说的是代理其他人吗？\n\nHARBACH先生：是的。Bruno Wu。\n\n答：不知道。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：我要短暂休庭。我们将在2:45回到这里。\n\n（休庭）\n\nCLAIBORN女士：好的。短暂休庭后，我们恢复记录。Harbach先生，请。\n\nHARBACH先生：谢谢。\n\nHARBACH先生问：\n\n问：Kwok女士，在你面前的文件中，有本案提交的第78号文件。\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22 录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18 第102页\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n官方口译员：哪份文件？这份吗？\n\nHARBACH先生：是的。抱歉。律师告诉我，你们的副本没有盖章。\n\n问：我说的是你们的第106号正式表格。所以，我的问题从第9页开始，该页的标题是附表D，即由财产担保的债权人（听不清）。你跟上了吗？你勾选了“是”，并被指向附表D，所以请翻到那里。这是在第18页。\n\nBALDIGA先生（巴尔迪加先生）：标题是什么？他或许可以凭标题更容易找到。\n\nHARBACH先生：好的。那是一个小表格，即附表D，其中列有享有担保债权的债权人。\n\nHARBACH先生问：\n\n问：Kwok先生，你会看到Golden Spring New York Limited（纽约金泉有限公司）有五个单独的条目。所有五行中每一列的数据都相同。那么，我的问题是，为什么这份附表中有五个相同的条目？问题是，为什么这份附表中有五个相同的条目？\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5\n提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n答：我不知道五个是什么意思——\n\n问：每一行都完全相同。我只是问，为什么有五行载有相同的信息？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：你提交的文件中有一些具体说明，其中一项说明讨论了Taconic Road的住所。\n\nHARBACH先生：供律师参考，我说的是第77号文件第4页。\n\n官方口译员：哪一页？\n\nHARBACH先生：第4页。\n\n官方口译员：84页？\n\nHARBACH先生：不，第4页。\n\n官方口译员：哦，第4页。好的。\n\nHARBACH先生问：\n\n问：我的问题与其说是关于确切文本，不如说是关于实质内容。所以，第一个问题，与Taconic Road房屋有关的所有费用是否均由家庭成员和家庭控制的企业直接支付？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：好的。哪些家庭成员？\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n答：我妻子，有时由我儿子支付。\n\n问：哪些由家庭控制的企业？\n\n答：哪个国家——我妻子。\n\n问：你妻子不是企业。我想问的是，哪些由家庭控制的企业支付Taconic房屋的费用？\n\n答：Greenwich LLC（格林尼治有限责任公司）。\n\n问：好的。顺便问一下，你怎么知道你妻子和有时你儿子支付这些费用？\n\n答：因为我住在那里。\n\n问：你是否观察到他们支付这些费用？\n\n答：是。\n\n问：那是否曾经是应你的要求？\n\n答：我不记得我要求过任何事。\n\n问：Greenwich Land LLC（格林尼治地产有限责任公司）——是，Greenwich Land LLC除373 Taconic Road外，还拥有任何其他房地产吗？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：你是否知道位于Connecticut（康涅狄格州）Cos Cob的33 Ferncliff的房产？\n\n官方口译员：你能重复一下吗？\n\nHARBACH先生：可以。\n\n问：Connecticut州Cos Cob的33 Ferncliff。\n\n官方口译员：31，对吗？\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\nHARBACH先生：不，33。\n\n答：是，现在我记起来了。它也是由我妻子的公司拥有。\n\n问：即Greenwich Land？\n\n答：也许。\n\n问：你知道吗？\n\n答：我不确定。\n\n问：你去过33 Ferncliff吗？\n\n答：去过。\n\n问：最近一次是什么时候？\n\n答：不。不是最近。\n\n问：你知道Greenwich Land何时购买33 Ferncliff吗？\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n问：你知道它大约花了多少钱吗？\n\n答：可能超过\\$1 million。\n\n问：\\$1.37 million听起来大致正确吗？\n\n答：我不确定。\n\n问：大约在September, 2019购买，这听起来对吗？\n\n答：不确定。\n\n问：暂且回到373 Taconic。那处房产的购买价是多少？\n\n答：大概400到500,000。\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n私人口译员：不，不，不。\n\n官方口译员：4到5 million。抱歉。\n\n问：如果你知道，373 Taconic的大致购买时间？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：你曾居住在33 Ferncliff吗？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：你知道目前是否有人住在那里吗？\n\n答：此前有另一位同志，也许，你知道，是脱离中国共产党的，他住在那里。\n\n问：多久以前？\n\n答：大概一到两年前。\n\n问：你记得那个人的名字吗？\n\n答：记得。\n\n问：是什么？\n\n答：Wong Din Gong（音）。\n\n问：如果你知道，目前是否有人住在那里？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：说到373 Taconic，购买该房产的钱来自哪里？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n问：你知道该房屋是用现金购买还是融资购买的吗？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：对33 Ferncliff也是同样的问题。你知道购买那所房屋的钱来自哪里吗？\n\n答：我听说是用现金购买的。\n\n问：从谁那里——抱歉。你从谁那里听说的？\n\n答：我不记得。\n\n问：你知道那笔钱来自哪里吗？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：你知道Saraca Media Group（萨拉卡媒体集团）是什么吗？\n\n答：Saraca？\n\n问：Saraca。\n\n答：Saraca Media Group。我知道。\n\n问：Sirraca Media Group是什么？\n\n答：就是Saraca。它是一家公司。\n\n问：什么类型的公司？\n\n答：我不确定。\n\n问：你个人是否曾与Saraca有任何关系？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：你是否知道Saraca从事何种类型的业务？\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n答：我记得他们与GTV Media platform（GTV媒体平台）有关，或者他们投资了GTV Media platform。\n\n问：你怎么知道这一点？\n\n答：因为我是他们的顾问，谁拥有该顾问。并且我也是GTV主持人。这也是脱离共产党者的一个输入和平台。\n\n问：你刚才说你是顾问时，是为Saraca担任顾问，还是为GTV担任顾问？\n\n答：GTV。\n\n问：Saraca是否曾经——是否曾与162 East 64th Street地址有关联？\n\n官方口译员：哪个地址？你能重复一下吗？\n\n问：可以。162 East 64th Street。问题是Saraca是否曾与该地址有关联？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：那是家族办公室的地址，对吗？\n\n答：那是其中一个。\n\n问：其他地址在哪里？\n\n答：我不知道。\n\n问：在New York City（纽约市）还有其他地址吗？\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）— 2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 我只是想澄清一下。Golden Spring（金泉）是这栋大楼中 162 号的一家公司。\n\n3 问 明白了，谢谢。我们在对您的询问中提到了家族办公室，我只是想弄清楚。当我们谈到家族办公室时，我们指的是 East 64th Street（东64街）的那个地址吗？\n\n8 答 是。\n\n9 问 GTV 是否曾与家族办公室地址有关联？\n\n11 答 我不知道。\n\n12 问 谁拥有 Saraca（萨拉卡）？\n\n13 答 我儿子。\n\n14 问 自何时起？\n\n15 答 我不知道。\n\n16 问 Saraca 目前是否仍然存在？\n\n17 答 我不知道。\n\n18 问 您是否知道——您是否知道有关 Saraca 资产价值的任何情况？\n\n20 答 我不知道。\n\n21 问 您是否知道 Saraca 向 GTV 支付款项的任何情况？\n\n23 答 不，我不知道。\n\n24 问 您的妻子是否曾告诉您有关 Saraca 向 Greenwich Land（格林尼治地产）支付的任何数百万美元款项？\n\n案件 22-50073 文档 913-5 提交 10/04/22\n登记 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 我不知道。\n\n2 问 您不知道她是否曾告诉过您，还是您不知道这些付款？\n\n5 答 她从未告诉过我，我甚至不知道金额是多少。\n\n7 问 您知道一家名为 Ziba Limited（Ziba 有限公司）、Z-I-B-A 的公司吗？\n\n9 官方口译员：Ziba，Z-I-B-A？\n\n10 HARBACH 先生（哈巴赫先生）：是。\n\n11 答 我不知道。\n\n12 问 如果我已经问过这个问题，我很抱歉。Saraca 与 GTV 之间如有任何关系，是什么关系？\n\n15 答 Saraca 是 GTV 的投资者。\n\n16 问 您知道 Saraca 向 GTV 投资了多少钱吗？\n\n18 答 我不知道。\n\n19 问 GTV 是何时成立的？\n\n20 答 2020年。也许是 2019年。不太确定。\n\n21 问 您知道 Saraca 的任何高级管理人员或董事的姓名吗？\n\n23 答 我不知道。\n\n24 问 您知道 Yvette Wang（王伊维特）是否是 Saraca 的高级管理人员或董事吗？\n\n案件 22-50073 文档 913-5 提交 10/04/22\n登记 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 我不知道。\n\n2 问 您认识一个叫 Hong Chung Wang（王洪忠）的人吗？\n\n4 答 是。\n\n5 问 他是谁？\n\n6 答 他是我的合伙人，也是脱离共产党的同志。\n\n8 问 他是您的朋友吗？\n\n9 答 朋友、同志和合伙人。\n\n10 问 您所说的合伙人是什么意思？\n\n11 答 因为我们有一家商业公司。\n\n12 问 请告诉我有关那家公司的情况。\n\n13 答 嗯，我不记得那家公司的名字。那是一家调查共产党在美国洗钱和实施犯罪行为的公司。\n\n17 问 那是一家营利性公司吗？\n\n18 答 我不知道。\n\n19 问 您不知道？\n\n20 答 我不知道。\n\n21 问 公司的名称是什么？\n\n22 答 译成英文时我不记得了。我不记得名称。\n\n24 问 您与 Hong Chung Wang 在这家公司成为合伙人大约是在什么时期？\n\n案件 22-50073 文档 913-5 提交 10/04/22\n登记 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 答 我不记得。\n\n2 问 在过去三年内？\n\n3 答 一定是在三年多以前。\n\n4 问 十多年前？\n\n5 答 不是。\n\n6 问 Hong Chung Wang 是否曾与 Saraca 有任何关联？\n\n8 答 我不知道。\n\n9 问 他是否曾担任 Saraca 的高级管理人员或董事？\n\n11 答 我不知道。\n\n12 问 GTV 中的 G 代表什么？\n\n13 答 God（上帝）。The Goal（目标），就像——G-O-A-L。\n\n14 问 英文单词“goal”？\n\n15 答 对。Goal 或 God。\n\n16 问 好的。您认识 Hong Chung Wang 多久了？\n\n18 答 我不记得。\n\n19 问 十多年？\n\n20 答 大约。\n\n21 问 您今天仍认为他是朋友吗？\n\n23 答 是。\n\n24 HARBACH 先生：请稍等。\n\n25 问 今天有许多问题涉及 Golden Spring 资助您的生活开支。\n\n案件 22-50073 文档 913-5 提交 10/04/22\n登记 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 关于您的生活开支，是否正确地说，其中没有任何款项预期需要偿还？\n\n5 答 是，正确。\n\n6 问 因此，那些款项并非任何正式协议的标的，对吗？\n\n8 答 不是。\n\n9 问 那么，那些款项实质上是赠与您的礼物，对吗？\n\n11 答 是。\n\n12 问 什么是 Rule of Law Foundation（法治基金会）？\n\n13 答 这是什么意思？\n\n14 问 问题是，它是什么？\n\n15 官方口译员：法治基金会？\n\n17 HARBACH 先生：是，先生。\n\n18 官方口译员：我没听清。您能换一种方式提问吗？\n\n20 问 有一个实体叫作——\n\n21 官方口译员：哦。\n\n22 问 ——法治基金会。\n\n23 官方口译员：好的。\n\n24 HARBACH 先生：我希望通过改问这个问题来节省一些时间。\n\n案件 22-50073 文档 913-5 提交 10/04/22\n登记 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 您熟悉法治基金会吗？\n\n3 答 是。\n\n4 问 您参与了其设立吗？\n\n5 答 是。\n\n6 问 其成立时，您是否向其捐赠过任何款项？\n\n8 答 不是我本人。\n\n9 问 您是否指示任何实体向法治基金会捐款？\n\n11 答 建议和指示之间的差别——\n\n13 问 如果是建议，请告诉我这是建议。\n\n15 答 我没有指示任何人，也没有命令任何人。我只是一直建议人们向基金会捐款。\n\n18 私人口译员：作为一名口译员，我认为，如果证人向口译员提问，口译员应当翻译证人所问的问题，而不是回答该问题。\n\n23 官方口译员：我可以回答任何事情。\n\n25 私人口译员：证人说——\n\n案件 22-50073 文档 913-5 提交 10/04/22 登记 10/04/22 11:50:18 第115页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 ——您说的是那个（听不清）。\n\n2 官方口译员：这就是为什么我把问题转给律师。\n\n4 私人口译员：您回答他“是”，然后您再说那个。\n\n6 官方口译员：哦，天哪。我没有说——我漏掉什么了吗？\n\n8 （口译。）\n\n9 官方口译员：好的。没有问题。他说没有任何问题未获回答。\n\n11 HARBACH 先生询问：\n\n12 问 您是否曾建议您的任何家庭成员向法治基金会捐款？\n\n15 答 是，我确实建议过。\n\n16 问 您的任何家庭成员或家族控制的企业是否向法治基金会捐过款？\n\n19 答 是。\n\n20 问 多少钱？\n\n21 答 现金有一笔——超过 $1 million。从 Hong Kong（香港）、Japan（日本）和 Mainland（中国大陆）——在 China（中国）的款项，合计应当超过 30 million。\n\n25 问 目前仅聚焦于您的家人在您建议下所作的捐款。\n\n案件 22-50073 文档 913-5 提交 10/04/22\n登记 10/04/22 11:50:18 第116页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 115\n\n1 问 大约是多少钱？\n\n3 答 我不知道细节。出于安全原因，他们不希望我知道。\n\n5 问 您刚才是否说过，您的家人捐赠了超过一百万美元？\n\n7 答 一百万现金在纽约这里。\n\n8 问 那是在何时？\n\n9 答 我不记得。\n\n10 问 原因是——嗯，让我这样问。您是否向您的家庭成员建议过他们应向法治基金会捐赠的金额？\n\n14 答 我希望他们捐得越多越好。\n\n15 问 那是您告诉他们的吗？\n\n16 答 是。\n\n17 问 您知道法治基金会是否与 64th Street（64街）的家族办公室地址有关联吗？\n\n答 是。\n\n问 您是否曾于 November of 2018 向法治基金会捐赠 $100 million？\n\n官方口译员：您能再重复一遍吗？\n\n问 您是否曾捐赠 $100 million——\n\n案件 22-50073 文档 913-5\n提交 10/04/22\n登记 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 ——给法治基金会，于 November, 2018？\n\n2 答 没有。在直播中，就像我想要——试图在直播节目中筹集资金。\n\n4 问 您是否曾——\n\n5 BALDIGA 先生（巴尔迪加先生）：等等。那是他的完整回答吗？\n\n7 官方口译员：是的。有什么问题吗？\n\n9 私人口译员：并不完全是证人所说的话。（听不清）广播是可以的。直播是可以的。但是筹集资金——\n\n13 官方口译员：请求捐款，对吗？\n\n15 （口译。）\n\n16 私人口译员：筹集——\n\n17 证人：筹集资金，筹集捐款。是的，在直播广播活动中，或者不管怎么说，您知道，请求捐款来——您知道，筹集资金，筹集钱款。\n\n21 问 您是否曾承诺向 Rule of Law Fund（法治基金）捐赠 $1 billion？\n\n23 官方口译员：您说的是 10 billion？\n\n25 HARBACH 先生：不，先生。1 billion。\n\n案件 22-50073 文档 913-5 提交 10/04/22\n登记 10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 官方口译员：哦，one billion。\n\n3 答 我不记得。我不记得。\n\n4 问 您的意思是，您有可能作出过那个承诺吗？\n\n6 答 如果我们联合世界各地的组织，我们就能达到那个目标。\n\n8 问 明白。这是一个简单的问题。我只是不知道答案。您本人是否曾承诺向法治基金捐赠 $1 billion？\n\n12 答 在过去五年中，我做了超过 5,000 次直播。有些直播可能长达四、五个小时。我很难记得我说过的每一句话。\n\n16 问 嗯，我明白，但我只是在问一个问题。那就是，您是否曾公开、私下或以任何方式承诺向法治基金捐赠 $1 billion？\n\n20 私人口译员：他说的不是投资。\n\n22 HARBACH 先生：捐赠。\n\n23 官方口译员：是，捐赠。\n\n24 答 我不记得。\n\n25 问 我再问一次这个问题。\n\n案件 22-50073 文档 913-5 提交 10/04/22 登记 10/04/22 11:50:18 第119页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n1 问 您是说，您有可能作出过这样的承诺。您只是无法确定？\n\n3 答 在 Holley 女士（霍利女士）面前，我不会说任何事情都有可能，但这是一个非常严重的问题。现在他们又开始搞这个阴谋了。\n\n6 问 嗯，这不是问您三天前早餐吃了什么。这是问您是否承诺捐赠 $1 billion；如果答案是您不知道，也没关系。\n\n10 BALDIGA 先生：我认为答案一直就是这样。\n\n12 HARBACH 先生：不，答案一直是我不记得。\n\n14 BALDIGA 先生：不记得。\n\n15 HARBACH 先生：是，先生。这有一点不同。\n\n17 问 因此，答案可能是否定的，但您并没有说否定。您说的是您不记得。\n\n19 答 我说了三次，我不记得。\n\n20 BALDIGA 先生：没有问题——\n\n21 答 因为在过去五年中，（听不清）总是替我作出这类回答，所以南区的法官被你们欺骗了，而你们又开始了——\n\n25 问 我继续问下一个问题。\n\n案件 22-50073 文档 913-5 提交 10/04/22 登记 10/04/22 11:50:18 第120页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n答 在南区法院，我只见过法官 20 秒。在这五年内，我一句话都没有说，而我被罚款合计约 $300 million，因为这就是他们所做的。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：好的。停止吧。我们等一个问题，然后回答这个问题。\n\nHARBACH 先生：Bill，我感谢您的耐心。我继续问下一个问题。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：请翻译我所说的话。\n\n官方口译员：您能重复一下吗？每个人都同时在说话。\n\nBALDIGA 先生：问一个问题，他会回答一个问题。\n\n问 在过去两年中，您是否向法治基金会作过任何捐赠？\n\n答 是我本人，对吗？\n\n问 是，先生。\n\n答 没有。\n\n问 在过去两年中，您是否曾建议您的任何家人向法治基金会捐款？\n\n答 我不记得。\n\n问 您是否会作出承诺去——\n\n案件 22-50073 文档 913-5 提交 10/04/22 登记 10/04/22 11:50:18 第121页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n是否曾在实际上并没有这笔钱的情况下，承诺向Rule of Law Foundation（法治基金会）捐赠$1 billion？\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n对提问方式提出异议。\n\n官方口译员：\n我没有听清。\n\n能再重复一遍吗？\n\n问：\n是否曾在实际上并没有这笔钱的情况下，承诺向Rule of Law Foundation捐赠$1 billion？\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n我已经提出异议。\n\nHARBACH先生：\n然后Bill也提出了异议。\n\n官方口译员：\n他说，您是想判我死刑吗？\n\n问：\nLady May（梅夫人号）的价值大约是多少？\n\n答：\n我不知道。\n\n问：\n这些年来您在Lady May上时，大约有多少次邀请朋友加入您？\n\n官方口译员：\n能再重复一遍那个问题吗？\n\nHARBACH先生：\n可以。\n\n问：\n这些年来您在Lady May上时，大约有多少次邀请朋友出来加入您？\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n等一下。\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5\n提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\nHARBACH先生：\n抱歉，Bill。\n\nBALDIGA先生：\nDavid，关于Lady May事项的证言录取即将进行。您可以选择今天或到那时再问。两种都可以。\n\nHARBACH先生：\n这是个合理的意见。我继续下一个问题。\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n好的。没有问题。\n\nHARBACH先生：\n如果我可以再次请律师注意文件77。我想重点讨论问题19。\n\n问：\nKwok先生，您读完该问题后告诉我。这是第19题。\n\n（停顿。）\n\n答：\n读完了。\n\n问：\n好的。为了记录完整，该问题写道：在您申请破产前十年内，您是否将任何财产转让给您为受益人的自益信托或类似安排？\n\n答：\n没有。\n\n问：\n而这确实是您在表格上勾选的内容。我的问题是，如果您将“您”一词改为“作为受益人的家庭成员”，答案会是什么？\n\nBALDIGA先生：\n异议。\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5\n提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n答：\n我无法回答带有“如果”的问题。\n\n问：\n我会换一种方式问。\n\nHARBACH先生：\nJack，请您耐心一些。\n\n问：\n在您申请破产前十年内，您是否将任何财产转让给您家庭成员为受益人的自益信托或类似安排？\n\n答：\n没有。\n\n问：\n继续看同一份文件中的问题27。先生，您读完后告诉我。\n\n（停顿。）\n\n答：\n好的，我读完了。\n\n问：\n所以您看到，您在“是”一词旁边勾选了方框。随后说明写道：勾选上述所有适用项目，并就每项业务在下方填写详细资料。\n\nHARBACH先生：\nJack，您看到那里了吗？\n\n官方口译员：\n我没有看到。\n\nHARBACH先生：\n下一项——Holley可以给您看。\n\n（停顿。）\n\nHARBACH先生：\n所以我刚才只是向证人指出——为方便译员，我再说一遍。\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n问：\n在勾选“是”的方框旁边，说明写道：勾选上述所有适用项目，并就每项业务在下方填写详细资料。上述方框中没有任何一项被勾选，这就是我的问题。对于您列出的那三个实体中的每一个，应勾选哪个或哪些方框？\n\n答：\n我无法确定是哪一个。\n\n问：\n这是您需要更多时间才能弄清楚的事情，还是您就是不知道答案？\n\n答：\n我可以逐个回答。\n\n问：\n好的。那我们就这样做。先从Genever Holdings Corporation（Genever控股公司）开始。\n\n答：\n是哪一个Genever？\n\n问：\n嗯，列出的是Genever Holdings Corporation。就Genever Holdings Corporation而言，如有适用，您会勾选哪些方框？\n\n答：\n它曾经——它是LLC的成员。上述项目不适用，应转到第12项——转到12。它以前是LLC。\n\n问：\n您的意思是，您会勾选LLC成员的方框，但应当使用过去时吗？\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n答：\n是的。以前是。\n\n问：\n其他任何方框是否适用于您与Genever Holdings Corporation的关系？\n\n答：\n最后一行似乎适合我。我不太确定。\n\n问：\n最后一行，即持有公司至少百分之五表决权证券或股权证券的所有人？\n\n答：\n我曾在很短一段时间内拥有50 percent。\n\n问：\n好的。Shiny Time（闪耀时光）呢？\n\n答：\nShiny Time已经不存在了。\n\n问：\n我明白。它存在期间，哪些方框是准确的？\n\n答：\n第一项。\n\n问：\n独资经营者？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n其他任何项呢？\n\n答：\n不确定。\n\n问：\n好的。Well Origin Limited（Well Origin有限公司）呢？\n\n答：\n它已经不存在了。\n\n问：\n好的。不过还是同样的问题。它存在期间，哪些方框适用？\n\n答：\n第一项。\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n134 第126页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 125\n\n问：\n其他任何项呢？\n\n答：\n不确定。\n\n问：\n关于这个问题最后一点。对于Genever Holdings Corporation，业务存在日期的栏位是空白的。您知道那些日期应当是什么吗？\n\n答：\n2015年。可能是3月、4月到6月、7月。\n\n问：\n哪一年？\n\n答：\n2015年。\n\n问：\n所以大约从3月或4月到大约7月，全部是在2015年？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n好的。那是该公司存在的全部期间吗？\n\n答：\n我在该公司待了几个月，在该期间待了几个月，并持有——持有股份。该公司在我离开后仍然存在。\n\n问：\n我明白。它今天仍然存在吗？\n\n答：\n我相信它仍然存在。\n\n问：\n好的。您在哪一年结婚？\n\n答：\n1918年——或者1985年。\n\n问：\n您的儿子在哪一年出生？\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n答：\n1986年。\n\n问：\n先生，您多大年龄？\n\n答：\n54岁。\n\n问：\n在您的家庭开始与Uda Property Company（Uda地产公司）合作时，您的儿子多大？\n\n答：\n11岁。哦，五岁——五岁。\n\n问：\n所以大约是在1991年，您的家庭开始与Uda合作？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\nHenan Uda Hotel（河南裕达酒店）何时竣工？\n\n答：\n1997年。\n\n问：\nUda International Trade Center（Uda国际贸易中心）呢？它何时竣工？\n\n答：\n大致在同一时间。\n\n问：\n在您本案的声明中，您称这两项都是成功的项目。\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n这使您的家庭开始积累大量财富。\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n因此，考虑到这是在90年代初期，这些项目大约为您的家庭带来了多少钱？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n问：\n超过$50 million？\n\n官方口译员：\n50还是15？\n\nHARBACH先生：\n5-0。\n\n官方口译员：\n哦，好的。\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n问：\nPangu Plaza（盘古广场）呢？它何时竣工？\n\n答：\n2008年7月。\n\n问：\n那么，从90年代初至2008年，Guo family（郭氏家族）还投资或参与了哪些重要项目？\n\n官方口译员：\n从1990年代到——\n\n答：\n90年代初至2008年之间。\n\n问：\n您记得其中任何项目吗？任何重要的业务项目？\n\n答：\nBeijing Golden Spring（北京金泉）。\n\n问：\n那是什么？\n\n答：\n它是一家地产公司。房地产。它是一家房地产公司。\n\n问：\n这是一家开发公司，还是——比如一家买卖代理公司？\n\n答：\n开发公司。\n\n问：\nPangu Plaza项目大约何时开始？\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n答：\n大约1999年。\n\n问：\n好的。那我们以此作为一个时间点。\n\n在Pangu Plaza项目开始时，该家庭大约积累了多少财富？\n\n私人译员：\n再问一遍那个问题？\n\nHARBACH先生：\n当然。\n\n问：\n截至1999年，即Pangu Plaza项目开始之时，该家庭到那时大约赚取或积累了多少财富？\n\n官方口译员：\n您说的是1999年之后？\n\nHARBACH先生：\n不，我说的是截至1999年？\n\n官方口译员：\n哦，截至1999年。\n\n问：\n截至1999年，该家庭赚了多少钱？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n问：\n超过$100 million？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n问：\n超过$500 million？\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n问：\n超过十亿美元？\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日\n\n答：\n我不记得了。\n\n问：\n您是否亲自参与了与Uda Property Company的工作？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n您是否亲自参与了Henan Uda Hotel的开发？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n您是否亲自参与了位于Zhengzhou（郑州）的Uda International Trade Center？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n您是否亲自参与了Pangu Plaza的开发？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n谁负责Beijing Golden Spring Real Estate Development（北京金泉房地产开发）公司？\n\n答：\n一个专业团队。\n\n问：\n您是该团队成员吗？\n\n答：\n当时我是顾问。\n\n问：\n为Beijing Golden Spring担任顾问？\n\n答：\n是。\n\n问：\n大约在什么时间段，您担任他们的顾问？\n\n答：\n2000年以后。\n\n问：\n2000年以后。好的。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\nHARBACH先生，我只想指出，现在是4:18，我知道今天已经很漫长——首先，我想说——抱歉打断您。\n\nHARBACH先生：\n没关系。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n但是，我想在我们结束之前，给委员会的律师一个机会，让他们今天问几个问题。\n\nHARBACH先生：\n当然。可以。\n\nSTAFSTROM先生：\n我会非常简短。\n\nSTAFSTROM先生询问：\n\n问：\n我注意到您的头发很短。我喜欢。您最近理发了吗？\n\n答：\n是。我理发了。\n\n问：\n您在哪里理的？\n\n答：\n我妻子。\n\n问：\n哦，您妻子。好的。她总是给您理发吗？\n\n答：\n从病毒暴发后到现在。\n\n问：\n好的。好吧，那我没有其他问题了。\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n我们在确定一个新日期期间，我将暂停录音。\n\n（不记录在案。）\n\nCLAIBORN女士：\n我们恢复记录。\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22\n134 录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18 第132页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 131\n\n短暂休息后。我们已确定续期日期为4月29日，上午10:00开始。我们今天结束。谢谢。\n\n（会议休会。）\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 本人，CHRISTINE FIORE（克里斯廷·菲奥雷），经法院批准的记录转录员及经认证的电子记录员和转录员，证明上述内容是对上述案件程序官方电子录音的正确文字记录。\n\n2022年4月15日\n\nChristine Fiore，CERT\n\n转录员\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5 提交日期10/04/22 录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18 第133页，共\n\n案号22-50073 文件913-5\n提交日期10/04/22\n录入日期10/04/22 11:50:18\n134 第134页，共\n\nHo Wan Kwok（郭文贵）—2022年4月6日 133\n\n索引\n\n页码\n\nCLAIBORN女士询问 6\n\nWOLMAN先生询问 71\n\nHARBACH先生询问 80\n\nSTAFSTROM先生询问 130","key_entities":["Kwok","Ho Wan Kwok","Je","Saraca","GTV","Yanping Wang","Chinese Communist Party","CIPA","Guo","Wang Yanping"],"ecf_references":[{"doc_number":77,"court":"CTB"},{"doc_number":78,"court":"CTB"}],"word_count":37577,"status":"published","published_at":"2022-10-04 00:00:00","created_at":"2022-10-04","updated_at":"2026-08-23 23:04:05"}