{"id":"court_sdny_429_0","court":"SDNY","case_no":"","doc_number":429,"sub_number":null,"doc_type":"DOC","filed_date":"2024-07-23","title":"SDNY ECF 429","summary_zh":"庭审记录 —— 美国诉 Ho Wan Kwok（郭文贵 / Guo Wengui / Miles Guo）案，SDNY 1:23-cr-00118 ECF #429（2024年6月17日）。法官 Analisa Torres 主持的庭审，包含 Mercantile Bank 首席执行官 James Robert Collins Jr. 以及 Christine Frosini、Limarie Reyes 等证人关于 Himalaya Exchange、William Je 与数字资产等事项的庭审证词。","summary_en":"Trial Transcript — United States v. Ho Wan Kwok (Miles Guo / Guo Wengui / 郭文贵), SDNY 1:23-cr-00118 ECF #429 (June 17, 2024). Trial proceedings before Judge Analisa Torres including testimony of James Robert Collins Jr. (Mercantile Bank CEO), Christine Frosini, Limarie Reyes and others regarding Himalaya Exchange, William Je, and digital assets matters.","body_en":"O6H1GUO1\n1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK\n2 ------------------------------x\nUNITED STATES OF AMERICA,\n3\nv. 23 Cr. 118 (AT)\n4\nMILES GUO,\n5\nDefendant. Trial\n6 ------------------------------x\nNew York, N.Y.\n7 June 17, 2024\n9:30 a.m.\n8\nBefore:\n9\n10 HON. ANALISA TORRES,\n11 District Judge\n-and a Jury-\n12\nAPPEARANCES\n13\nDAMIAN WILLIAMS\n14 United States Attorney for the\nSouthern District of New York\n15 BY: RYAN B. FINKEL\nJULIANA N. MURRAY\n16 Assistant United States Attorneys\n17 SABRINA P. SHROFF\nAttorney for Defendant\n18\nPRYOR CASHMAN LLP\n19 Attorneys for Defendant\nBY: SIDHARDHA KAMARAJU\n20 MATTHEW BARKAN\nCLARE P. TILTON\n21\nALSO PRESENT:\n22 Isabel Loftus, Paralegal Specialist, USAO\nRobert Stout, Special Agent, FBI\n23 Ruben Montilla, Defense Paralegal\nTuo Huang, Interpreter (Mandarin)\n24 Shi Feng, Interpreter (Mandarin)\nYu Mark Tang, Interpreter (Mandarin)\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 (Trial resumed; jury not present)\n2 THE COURT: Good morning. Please make your\n3 appearances.\n4 MR. FINKEL: Good morning, your Honor, Ryan Finkel and\n5 Juliana Murray for the government. We're joined at counsel\n6 table by Isabel Loftus and Special Agent Robert Stout.\n7 MR. KAMARAJU: Good morning, your Honor, Sidhardha\n8 Kamaraju, Sabrina Shroff, Matthew Barkan, and Clare Tilton on\n9 behalf of Mr. Guo, who is seated at counsel's table with us.\n10 THE COURT: Please have the jurors brought in.\n11 (Jury present)\n12 THE COURT: Please be seated.\n13 Good morning, jurors, and welcome back.\n14 THE JURORS: Good morning.\n15 THE COURT: We will now continue with the direct\n16 examination of Mr. Collins.\n17 You may inquire.\n18 MR. FINKEL: Thank you, your Honor.\n19 JAMES ROBERT COLLINS JR., resumed.\n20 DIRECT EXAMINATION\n21 BY MR. FINKEL:\n22 Q. Good morning, sir.\n23 A. Good morning.\n24 Q. So I remind you, you're still under oath, okay?\n25 A. Yes.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 MR. FINKEL: If we can please display for the witness\n2 what's been marked for identification as Government\n3 Exhibit 113.\n4 Q. Mr. Collins, who is depicted in Government Exhibit 113?\n5 A. I don't remember his name, but he was held out as the\n6 president of the Himalaya Exchange.\n7 MR. FINKEL: If we can please display what's in\n8 evidence as Government Exhibit BR208A.\n9 Can you scroll down, please, Ms. Loftus.\n10 Can you zoom in on the bottom.\n11 Q. Mr. Collins, please take a look at that and let me know if\n12 it refreshes your recollection.\n13 A. It does.\n14 MR. FINKEL: And if we could please go back,\n15 Ms. Loftus, to Government Exhibit 113.\n16 Q. Who is the individual depicted in Government Exhibit 113?\n17 A. Jesse Brown.\n18 MR. FINKEL: Government offers 113.\n19 MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.\n20 THE COURT: It is admitted.\n21 (Government's Exhibit 113 received in evidence)\n22 MR. FINKEL: If you could publish that, please.\n23 Q. Mr. Collins, you said that this individual, Jesse Brown,\n24 was held out as the president of the Himalaya Exchange. Can\n25 you explain to the jury what you mean by that.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 A. He represented that that was his title. Other team members\n2 in the Himalaya Exchange referenced him that way also.\n3 Q. Who?\n4 A. Jesse Brown.\n5 Q. What did William Je, if anything, say about Jesse Brown's\n6 role at the Himalaya Exchange?\n7 A. Other than——other than handing, you know, discussing his\n8 title, we didn't have a lot of discussion about Jesse.\n9 Q. Where was Jesse Brown located, to your knowledge?\n10 A. The British Virgin Islands.\n11 Q. Did you have an understanding about why Mr. Brown was\n12 located in the British Virgin Islands?\n13 A. I believe the type of license they had in the BVI required\n14 an officer, if not the main officer, to be located there.\n15 Q. Approximately how many interactions did you have personally\n16 with Mr. Brown concerning the Himalaya Exchange?\n17 A. In a group or just one on one?\n18 Q. Either.\n19 A. All combined, probably three or four.\n20 Q. Who did you primarily interact with regarding the Himalaya\n21 Exchange?\n22 A. William Je, Georgette Adonis-Roberts, and Priya Patel.\n23 THE COURT: Mr. Finkel, if you would get closer to the\n24 microphone, please.\n25 MR. FINKEL: Yes, your Honor.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 Q. And Mr. Collins, what was your understanding of who ran the\n2 Himalaya Exchange?\n3 A. It is clear to me that William Je was running the business.\n4 Q. And why was it clear to you that William Je was running the\n5 Himalaya Exchange?\n6 A. People deferred to him ultimately on pretty much any\n7 decision that was made around Himalaya Exchange.\n8 MR. FINKEL: If we can please display Government\n9 Exhibit 103.\n10 Q. Mr. Collins, did there come a time, if ever, where you met\n11 Mr. Je in person?\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. And where did you meet him?\n14 A. I met him in their offices just outside of London.\n15 Q. Whose offices just outside of London?\n16 A. Himalaya Exchange.\n17 Q. And when, approximately, was that?\n18 A. Approximately the fall of '21.\n19 Q. And can you describe, please, to the jury the nature of\n20 your conversation with Mr. Je about the Himalaya Exchange in\n21 his London offices.\n22 A. He was excited to tell us about their offering; they were\n23 just in the midst of launching the Himalaya Coin, and the\n24 Himalaya Dollar, which was both listed on the exchange. He was\n25 very much engaged in taking advantage of the market interest in\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 digital assets, and they held out this exchange as being the\n2 next big thing.\n3 Q. What do you mean he was interested in taking advantage of\n4 the market in digital assets, at that time?\n5 A. There was a lot of interest generically, publicly,\n6 globally, in investing in digital assets.\n7 Q. And when you say \"digital assets,\" based on your\n8 understanding in the fall of 2021, can you give some examples.\n9 A. Well, the biggest digital asset and perhaps the most\n10 notable is Bitcoin. It's often referred——the market is often\n11 referred to as crypto. Ethereum is another coin. There's I\n12 think currently 20,000 different coins listed.\n13 Q. At the time that you had this meeting with Mr. Je in\n14 London, had you heard of the Himalaya Coin?\n15 A. No.\n16 Q. Had you heard of the Himalaya Dollar?\n17 A. No.\n18 Q. And to your knowledge at that time was the Himalaya Coin or\n19 Himalaya Dollar available on any other cryptocurrency exchange?\n20 A. Not that I'm aware of.\n21 Q. Did you have any conversations with Mr. Je at that time\n22 about Miles Guo?\n23 A. I believe I mentioned that we had informed their staff that\n24 we had concerns about Miles's profile, and I asked him to\n25 confirm that Miles's money wasn't involved in the accounts that\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 we would be onboarding, and that Miles was not in any way a\n2 control person of the enterprises.\n3 Q. And what did Mr. Je say in response to your request for\n4 confirmation that Miles Guo was not in any way a control person\n5 of the enterprise?\n6 A. He confirmed that Miles was not a UBO or that his money was\n7 being used in the exchange.\n8 THE COURT: What does UBO mean?\n9 THE WITNESS: Ultimate beneficial owner. It's sort of\n10 a Bank Secrecy Act term of art.\n11 Q. Did Mr. Je explain anything about whether the Himalaya\n12 Dollar was backed by gold?\n13 A. He did not mention that.\n14 Q. Did you meet with an individual named Priya Patel when you\n15 were in London?\n16 A. Yes.\n17 Q. Who is Priya Patel?\n18 A. Priya Patel was held out as the most senior legal officer\n19 of the company.\n20 Q. Which company?\n21 A. The ones I know about are Hamilton, the various funds run\n22 by Hamilton, and the Himalaya Exchange.\n23 Q. What is your understanding of what Hamilton was?\n24 A. There were several different entities that utilized the\n25 name Hamilton. So for example, Hamilton special Opportunities\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 Fund, that collection of Hamilton entities generally was, from\n2 my understanding, investment vehicles that were investing\n3 William and his investors' money.\n4 Q. And what was your understanding of who ran the Hamilton\n5 entities?\n6 A. William.\n7 Q. William, what's the last name?\n8 A. William Je.\n9 Q. Did you review——well, withdrawn.\n10 MR. FINKEL: Ms. Loftus, if we can play for the\n11 witness and the jury what's in evidence——but outside of Trial\n12 Director, please——GX C370-V.\n13 Play just a few seconds of that, please.\n14 (Video displayed)\n15 MR. FINKEL: Can you pause that, please.\n16 BY MR. FINKEL:\n17 Q. Mr. Collins, around the time that Mercantile Bank was\n18 considering onboarding the Himalaya Exchange as a client, did\n19 you watch this video?\n20 A. I watched a few videos. This seems familiar.\n21 MR. FINKEL: You could play it, please, Ms. Loftus.\n22 (Video displayed)\n23 MR. FINKEL: You can stop there.\n24 Q. Mr. Collins, at the time you watched this video what was\n25 your reaction to it, if any?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 A. I saw it as pure marketing. I didn't really have a strong\n2 reaction one way or the other.\n3 Q. In making a decision to onboard a client, does Mercantile\n4 Bank consider marketing of a client?\n5 A. Sometimes.\n6 Q. Did you in this case?\n7 A. I believe we did holistically, in conjunction with my Bank\n8 Secrecy Act team.\n9 Q. Mr. Collins, there is a phrase in this video that we just\n10 watched that says \"to the moon.\" Did you see that and hear\n11 that?\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. Are you familiar with that phrase, \"to the moon\"?\n14 A. I mean, it's from an old black-and-white TV series, but\n15 yes.\n16 Q. What about in the context of cryptocurrency, are you\n17 familiar with the phrase \"to the moon\"?\n18 A. Somewhat.\n19 Q. What does it mean?\n20 A. It means that the price will go infinitely high.\n21 Q. And is that a phrase that people in the cryptocurrency\n22 community use, \"to the moon\"?\n23 A. I've heard it before.\n24 MR. FINKEL: We can take that down, Ms. Loftus.\n25 Q. Mr. Collins, did ultimately Mercantile Bank take on the\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 Himalaya Exchange as a client?\n2 A. Yes.\n3 Q. And approximately how many bank accounts did the Himalaya\n4 Exchange open with your bank?\n5 A. I don't recall the specific number, but somewhere between\n6 four and six.\n7 Q. And when you took on the Himalaya Exchange as a client, did\n8 you believe the Himalaya Exchange was a legitimate business?\n9 A. Yes.\n10 Q. Did Mercantile Bank store gold for the Himalaya Exchange?\n11 A. No.\n12 Q. Did there come a time, if ever, when G/CLUBS transferred\n13 money into a Himalaya Exchange bank account?\n14 A. I believe so.\n15 MR. FINKEL: If we can please display for the witness\n16 what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit\n17 MER1203.\n18 Q. Do you see it on your monitor, Mr. Collins?\n19 A. Yes.\n20 Q. Please take a look at that and let me know what Government\n21 Exhibit MER1203 is.\n22 A. Can you——can I read it from the bottom up.\n23 Q. Sure.\n24 A. There we go. That's good.\n25 Okay.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 Q. What is MER1203?\n2 A. This is me facilitating a movement from G Club to the\n3 Himalaya Exchange.\n4 Q. And who was making that request, for the movement?\n5 A. Alex H.\n6 Q. And he works for what company, based on your understanding?\n7 A. G Club.\n8 MR. FINKEL: Government offers MER1203.\n9 MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.\n10 THE COURT: It is admitted.\n11 (Government's Exhibit MER1203 received in evidence)\n12 MR. FINKEL: Could we publish that, please,\n13 Ms. Loftus. You can scroll to the bottom while that's coming\n14 up.\n15 THE COURT: Sir, when you say a movement, what do you\n16 mean?\n17 THE WITNESS: A wire transfer.\n18 THE COURT: If you would speak up, please.\n19 THE WITNESS: A wire transfer.\n20 BY MR. FINKEL:\n21 Q. Mr. Collins, can you read the email at the, well, now the\n22 top of your screen, December 1, 2021, from Alex H to Georgette\n23 and you, beginning with, \"I was told.\"\n24 A. Okay.\n25 Q. Can you read that, please.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 A. You want me to read the email?\n2 Q. Yeah, from \"I was told.\"\n3 A. Out loud?\n4 Q. Yes, please.\n5 A. Okay. \"I was told the account is open and ready to accept\n6 funds.\n7 \"Can you please share the wire information for\n8 Himalaya International Clearing Ltd account at Mercantile so I\n9 may schedule transfer of 50mm USD.\"\n10 MR. FINKEL: If we can scroll up, please.\n11 Q. And what do you say in response to that email?\n12 A. \"Would you like me to facilitate this.\n13 \"I don't want to share your account numbers/details\n14 with him without your approval.\"\n15 That was my comment to Georgette.\n16 MR. FINKEL: If we can scroll up again, please,\n17 Ms. Loftus.\n18 Q. And after Georgette responds, \"This will need to be\n19 facilitated through the CFO,\" Mr. Collins, can you read what\n20 you wrote back.\n21 A. \"Sounds good. John, can you work with Mahsud for this\n22 authorization (communicating to directly G Club the wiring\n23 instructions with Himalaya's account number) so that G Club can\n24 move money from the G Club account to the Himalaya account that\n25 is already open for their purchase of coins.\"\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 MR. FINKEL: If we can please display for the witness\n2 what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit\n3 MER1204.\n4 Q. Did there come a time, if ever, Mr. Collins——while that's\n5 coming up——that Mr. Je asked for help with what he called VIP\n6 clients?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. Can you see that document on your screen, sir?\n9 A. It's just a header, yes.\n10 MR. FINKEL: Can you scroll down, please, Ms. Loftus.\n11 Q. Mr. Collins, what is this document, MER1204?\n12 A. It looks like a series of messages between me and William.\n13 MR. FINKEL: Government offers MER1204.\n14 MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.\n15 THE COURT: It is admitted.\n16 (Government's Exhibit MER1204 received in evidence)\n17 MR. FINKEL: If we could publish that, please.\n18 Q. Mr. Collins, what's the month and year of these messages\n19 between you and Mr. Je?\n20 A. March of 2022.\n21 Q. And can you read your third message at 5:45 p.m. on\n22 March 17, 2022.\n23 A. \"There is NO universe that I will be carrying 100 mill of\n24 BTC on a thumb drive to Dubai.\"\n25 Q. What is BTC?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 A. That's the acronym for Bitcoin.\n2 Q. Why did you write \"There is NO universe that I will be\n3 carrying 100 mill of BTC Bitcoin on a thumb drive to Dubai\"?\n4 Why did you send that to William Je?\n5 A. In a discussion about——when we were having these messages,\n6 William asked me the question, if I'd be open to that.\n7 Q. Open to what?\n8 A. Carrying a hundred million dollars of BTC on a thumb drive.\n9 Q. Did he provide any information, did William Je provide any\n10 information why he wanted you to do that?\n11 A. No.\n12 Q. Why did you decline?\n13 A. There's many reasons. Perhaps first and foremost is my\n14 personal safety; second is, that would sidestep every single\n15 BSI——BSA requirement; and I'm pretty sure——I don't remember\n16 when laws were exactly passed, but it may have been a felony to\n17 transmit or to carry more than $10,000 of value across the\n18 border without disclosing it.\n19 Q. So you declined.\n20 A. Yes.\n21 MR. FINKEL: Okay. We can scroll down, please,\n22 Ms. Loftus.\n23 Right there.\n24 Q. So on March 17, 2022, at 11:38 p.m., can you read what\n25 William Je messaged you.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 A. I'm sorry. At what time?\n2 Q. 11:38 p.m.\n3 A. You want me to read it?\n4 Q. Yes, please.\n5 A. \"Hi, could you help to check if the below account has been\n6 opened? If not, any outstanding issue?\n7 \"-UK Himalaya Ltd.\n8 \"-Director: Jianfeng Dai.\"\n9 His email, and then he says \"Thanks.\"\n10 Q. Do you know who David Dai is?\n11 A. I don't recall that person.\n12 Q. What was your understanding of why William Je was asking\n13 you about this individual, Mr. Dai?\n14 A. I don't recall that we really spoke about him. I think he\n15 is the signatory for UK Himalaya Ltd., and that would have——I'm\n16 not sure we ever discussed the purpose of that operating\n17 entity's account.\n18 MR. FINKEL: We can take that down.\n19 Q. Mr. Collins, did there come a time, if ever, when William\n20 Je asked for your help in making a money transfer related to a\n21 loan?\n22 A. Yes.\n23 Q. And when approximately was that?\n24 A. I remember it around Easter of '22.\n25 Q. And what did Mr. Je tell you about this loan?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 A. The loan was being made to an escrow account related to the\n2 bankruptcy of Mr. Guo as security for a substantial piece of\n3 collateral that they had moved from the United States to the\n4 Mediterranean, being a large yacht, and the loan was to satisfy\n5 the court's demand in time because they didn't have time to\n6 steam the yacht back to America, and it was a short-term loan\n7 to facilitate Mr. Guo's freedom.\n8 Q. What do you mean by that?\n9 A. I was told that if the loan wasn't facilitated right away,\n10 that he would be imprisoned.\n11 Q. Mr. Guo?\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. And Mr. Je told you that?\n14 A. Yes.\n15 Q. And what was the collateral? Can you explain how that\n16 works, in your understanding of it, based on this conversation\n17 with Mr. Je.\n18 A. So in the normal lending arrangement, the lender will take\n19 collateral as security for the loan, so if the loan doesn't get\n20 repaid, they can foreclose on that collateral and sell it to\n21 pay the loan.\n22 Q. And so what was the issue with collateral being moved out\n23 of the country? Can you explain that.\n24 A. My understanding——I'm not an attorney, but——the bankruptcy\n25 trustee was upset that some significant assets of the estate\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 had been moved outside of USA jurisdictional reach.\n2 Q. Whose estate?\n3 A. Mr. Guo's.\n4 Q. Bankruptcy attorney for what bankruptcy?\n5 A. Mr. Guo's.\n6 Q. What kind of asset was moved out of the jurisdiction, based\n7 on your understanding from the conversation?\n8 A. The yacht.\n9 Q. What yacht?\n10 A. I don't remember the name of it.\n11 Q. And so how would this loan sort of solve Mr. Je and\n12 Mr. Guo's problem?\n13 MR. KAMARAJU: Objection.\n14 THE COURT: Sustained.\n15 Q. How would this loan facilitate this issue, based on what\n16 Mr. Je told you?\n17 MR. KAMARAJU: Same objection.\n18 THE COURT: Sustained.\n19 Was there a request for a loan?\n20 THE WITNESS: The request was not a loan from me. The\n21 loan that was being made was by William Je and his——one of his\n22 companies to a relative of Miles Guo, who I think was listed as\n23 the owner at the bank, but the trustee had identified this\n24 yacht as a substantial asset of the estate.\n25 BY MR. FINKEL:\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 Q. So what was Mercantile's role with respect to this\n2 potential loan, if it wasn't a loan from you?\n3 A. We were just wiring money under the control of William Je\n4 to the escrow account of an attorney involved in the case.\n5 Q. And the William Je account, do you know what business it\n6 was associated with?\n7 A. I vaguely remember it was one of the Himalaya entities, but\n8 I don't recall specifically.\n9 Q. And when you say Himalaya entities, entities of what?\n10 A. One of the Himalaya companies that had an account with us.\n11 Q. Meaning the Himalaya Exchange?\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. At the time did this seem like a reasonable business\n14 transaction?\n15 A. It was unusual, but it seemed reasonable.\n16 Q. And you said that there was a woman involved in the\n17 process?\n18 A. Yes, the——I don't recall——I didn't see the actual title\n19 work to the yacht, but my understanding was the loan was made\n20 to the bankruptcy at——well, I don't remember who the signatory\n21 of the loan was, but it was somebody I'd never met before. It\n22 was held out as a relative of Miles Guo, whose name I think was\n23 actually on the yacht title.\n24 Q. And did Mercantile Bank facilitate this wire payment from\n25 the Himalaya entity to an escrow account for this loan?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 A. Yes. Yes.\n2 Q. Okay.\n3 MR. FINKEL: Government offers, pursuant to the——may I\n4 have a second.\n5 (Counsel conferring)\n6 MR. FINKEL: Pursuant to a stipulation regarding bank\n7 record documents, the government offers GX MER138.\n8 MR. KAMARAJU: No objection, your Honor.\n9 THE COURT: It is admitted.\n10 (Government's Exhibit MER138 received in evidence)\n11 BY MR. FINKEL:\n12 Q. By the way, Mr. Collins, what did William Je tell you, if\n13 anything, about the nature of his relationship with Miles Guo?\n14 A. Do you have a specific point in time in mind or——\n15 Q. In general.\n16 A. He mentioned that Miles Guo was his best friend, that Miles\n17 trusted him more than any individual in the world, and that\n18 they were very close.\n19 Q. Can you see on your screen Government Exhibit MER138? I\n20 think it's published, but——\n21 A. Yeah.\n22 Q. What type of document is this? You recognize the\n23 formatting?\n24 A. Looks like a monthly statement from Mercantile Bank.\n25 Q. And what's the name of the entity whose monthly statement\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 this is?\n2 A. Himalaya International Financial Group Ltd.\n3 Q. And is that one of the Himalaya/William Je accounts?\n4 A. Yes.\n5 Q. And do you see where in the amount it says minus\n6 37 million?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. What is that?\n9 A. I believe that's the amount that we wired related to the\n10 yacht and the loan in the escrow account.\n11 Q. And it also says Zeisler & Zeisler, PC IOLTA account. Do\n12 you see that?\n13 A. Yes.\n14 Q. What is your understanding of what that means, Zeisler &\n15 Zeisler, PC IOLTA account?\n16 A. That's the escrow account I've been referencing.\n17 Q. And so the $37 million wire was the loan that you spoke\n18 about prior?\n19 A. That was a loan William and Himalaya made to Miles Guo.\n20 Q. After the loan was processed, what reaction, if any, did\n21 Mr. Je have?\n22 A. I just want to correct what I just said. I don't know the\n23 loan was made to Miles Guo. It was related to Miles Guo's\n24 bankruptcy estate, but technically I think the loan was made to\n25 another person.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 Q. Okay. What was Mr. Je's reaction after this wire was\n2 processed, if any?\n3 A. His reaction after it was processed? I think he was\n4 grateful that we were able to process this so quickly.\n5 MR. FINKEL: You can take that down, Ms. Loftus.\n6 Q. Aside from the business that the Himalaya Exchange had with\n7 Mercantile Bank, what other business discussions, if any, did\n8 you have with William Je?\n9 A. Maybe you can narrow that question down for me.\n10 Q. Did you contemplate entering into a business transaction\n11 with Mr. Je aside from opening accounts at Mercantile Bank?\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. What was the nature of that transaction?\n14 A. We discussed, early in the relationship, investing in the\n15 exchange——I'm sorry——in our bank——technically our holding\n16 company——which he did, initial investment. And then that\n17 conversation grew to much larger conversation about essentially\n18 buying a controlling interest in the bank.\n19 Q. I'm sorry. Who was that who was contemplating buying a\n20 controlling interest in the bank?\n21 A. William Je, through one of his entities called I think\n22 Hamilton Special Opportunities Fund.\n23 Q. And when you say the bank, you mean Mercantile?\n24 A. Yes.\n25 Q. How far advanced did those negotiations get about selling a\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 controlling interest in Mercantile Bank to William Je's\n2 company?\n3 A. They resulted in an actual closing on September 16th,\n4 according to what we had agreed to, the terms.\n5 Q. And what was the approximate price that Mr. Je was willing\n6 to pay for a controlling interest in Mercantile?\n7 A. Ultimately he would be investing almost a hundred million\n8 dollars. The first tranche was 49½ million.\n9 Q. Is there a regulator who regulates Mercantile Bank?\n10 A. Yes.\n11 Q. And what's the name of that regulator?\n12 A. Our prudential regulator, if you will, is a firm who's most\n13 easily referenced as their acronym, called OCIF, O-C-I-F. It's\n14 the agency, the banking agency of Puerto Rico.\n15 Q. In connection with the potential purchase of Mercantile\n16 Bank by William Je, was Mr. Je required to make any\n17 representations to OCIF?\n18 A. Yes.\n19 Q. About Miles Guo?\n20 A. About many things, but——\n21 Q. Were some of those representations that Mr. Je was required\n22 to make to OCIF about Miles Guo?\n23 A. Yes.\n24 Q. And what did Mr. Je represent to OCIF about Miles Guo, if\n25 anything?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 A. That Miles was not a UBO, that none of the money involved\n2 in the fund that was actually making the investment was part of\n3 Miles Guo's money or estate.\n4 Q. To your knowledge did he make those representations?\n5 A. Yes.\n6 Q. When was this transaction supposed to close, the sale of\n7 Mercantile to Hamilton Special Opportunities?\n8 A. The original closing date was set for August 24th, and we\n9 had to extend that to September 16th.\n10 THE COURT: Of what year?\n11 THE WITNESS: Of 2022.\n12 Q. Did the transaction close on September 16th of 2022?\n13 A. Yes.\n14 Q. Did Mercantile receive final payment on September 16, 2022?\n15 A. No.\n16 Q. How much was Mercantile expecting to receive on\n17 September 16, 2022?\n18 A. $49½ million.\n19 Q. Why did Mercantile not obtain $49½ million on September 16,\n20 2022?\n21 A. Why didn't we receive it?\n22 Q. Yeah.\n23 A. The money was seized in transit by the U.S. Marshals.\n24 Q. And how did you learn about that?\n25 A. Well——\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 Q. At first.\n2 A. The wire was initiated on a Friday afternoon in the United\n3 States, and we weren't surprised that it hadn't cleared that\n4 day, just because it was late in the day. So Monday, we were\n5 looking for the wire. We were in London at the time. And the\n6 wire wasn't showing up. It didn't show up on Tuesday. I think\n7 by Wednesday, we realized that there was some sort of problem.\n8 Q. Did you speak with Mr. Je about the potential problem?\n9 A. Yes.\n10 Q. And what did he say?\n11 A. He said they hadn't had any communications from their\n12 banks, that they didn't have any knowledge about why the wire\n13 had not cleared, and I asked them to look into it, and I also\n14 asked them if I could look into it.\n15 Q. Did you?\n16 A. I did.\n17 Q. What did you learn?\n18 A. I happened to know the CEO of Silvergate Bank, which is\n19 where the wire initiated from, so I called him, and we had a\n20 brief conversation, wondering where the wire was, and he didn't\n21 know anything about it, so he said he would look into it. And\n22 the next day I got an email from him saying that he was not in\n23 a position to discuss the account any further and that he——that\n24 I should ask the account owners to contact them immediately.\n25 Q. Did you do that?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 A. I did.\n2 Q. What happened next?\n3 A. William and Priya reached out to them, I think they had a\n4 phone call, and it was then that it was revealed that the wire\n5 had been seized.\n6 Q. After the seizure, did Mr. Je make any requests concerning\n7 the Himalaya Exchange?\n8 A. I don't——I mean, there were many conversations and several\n9 requests, so maybe you could narrow it down for me.\n10 Q. Sure.\n11 MR. FINKEL: If we can display for the witness what's\n12 been marked for identification as Government Exhibit MER1205.\n13 If you can scroll down so Mr. Collins can take a look\n14 at this, please.\n15 Q. What is MER1205, this document, Mr. Collins?\n16 A. This is a series of WhatsApp communications between me and\n17 William Je.\n18 Q. What's the date?\n19 A. September 23, 2022.\n20 MR. FINKEL: Government offers MER1205.\n21 MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.\n22 THE COURT: It is admitted.\n23 (Government's Exhibit MER1205 received in evidence)\n24 MR. FINKEL: Could we publish that, please.\n25 And we can zoom in at the top, please, Ms. Loftus.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - Direct\n1 That's fine.\n2 BY MR. FINKEL:\n3 Q. So the first message says, \"I will speak to Mahsud at 11.\"\n4 Is that correct? That's from you?\n5 A. Yes.\n6 Q. Who is Mahsud?\n7 A. Ehsan Mahsud is the——was held out as the CFO of Himalaya\n8 Exchange.\n9 Q. And why did you ask is he aware of what is happening?\n10 A. These are——for me, these are incredibly unusual\n11 circumstances, and I didn't want to be in a position of saying\n12 something out of——out of place with the wrong person at the\n13 wrong time, partly because of commercial liability, and so I\n14 just wanted to understand what Ehsan understood about what was\n15 happening around them, because it was——it was a very confusing\n16 time, there was——there was a lot of information flowing around\n17 that was extreme, and I just wanted to be careful.\n18 (Continued on the next page)\n19\n20\n21\n22\n23\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct\n1 BY MR. FINKEL:\n2 Q. I'm just going to ask you to move the mic somewhat down a\n3 bit so everyone can hear you.\n4 Mr. Collins, when you said aware of what is happening,\n5 what does the \"what\" refer to?\n6 A. Several things. That Silvergate funds were frozen or\n7 seized. We had learned that FV bank, another bank that we were\n8 familiar with had also had a major seizure related to the\n9 Himalaya universe, and we didn't know what else was out there.\n10 Generically I would just say, my question was, is he aware of\n11 what's happening related to the seizures, because even the most\n12 senior executives were not necessarily aware in realtime.\n13 Q. And then a couple of messages below William Je at 9:03 a.m.\n14 says, We are just doing normal redemption of a client. Thanks.\n15 Did I read that right?\n16 A. Yes.\n17 Q. What was your understanding of what that meant?\n18 A. A redemption typically means that they were substituting\n19 HDO for cash or HCN for cash.\n20 Q. Why, based on your understanding, was Mr. Je talking about\n21 a normal redemption of a client at this time?\n22 MR. KAMARAJU: Objection.\n23 THE COURT: You may state what your understanding of\n24 the statement was.\n25 A. Well, my understanding is that he wanted to redeem, at this\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct\n1 point in time, that he wanted to redeem one of the coins on the\n2 Himalaya Exchange for U.S. dollars related to a normal client.\n3 Q. At that time after the seizure first, did Mr. Je identify\n4 who that client was?\n5 A. Not at first.\n6 Q. How did he describe that client at first, Mr. Je?\n7 A. He described him as -- well, he just said a normal\n8 redemption of a client, and I believe later he mentioned it was\n9 a VIP client.\n10 Q. And what was the amount of the redemption that Mr. Je\n11 sought for this client shortly after the seizure from the banks\n12 that you mentioned?\n13 A. Somewhere between 42 and 50 thousand -- $50 million.\n14 Q. Did Mr. Je provide documents to facilitate this redemption\n15 to Mercantile bank?\n16 A. Yes.\n17 THE COURT: In a redemption, the money goes from where\n18 to where?\n19 THE WITNESS: I would say there's a nomenclature\n20 problem here in the sense that, what he's calling a redemption\n21 here, we would think of as a trade, so he is selling his HCN\n22 for U.S. dollars. He's calling it a redemption because they\n23 happen to control the platform, and so they can redeem it by\n24 picking a value. But later I believe they sent us what we\n25 would call trade confirmations that actually show that it's\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct\n1 more similar to a trade than a redemption.\n2 Q. To redeem, if a redemption or trade is going to be\n3 processed, what sort of the real world event that Mercantile\n4 would facilitate?\n5 A. Well, our role in what he's referring to as redemption is\n6 simply the wiring of the money. We're not involved in the\n7 transaction. We're not involved in the mechanics of the\n8 redemption. We just respond to the request. We ask for\n9 supporting documentation because that fulfills our bank's\n10 Secrecy Act requirements.\n11 Q. If we can take that down, Ms. Loftus, and display for the\n12 witness what's been marked as Government Exhibit MER-5 and\n13 MER-6 for the witness.\n14 Mr. Collins, who signed these documents?\n15 A. William Je.\n16 Q. What are these documents?\n17 A. These are what I would call a trade confirmation.\n18 Q. And does this pertain to the trade we were just discussing?\n19 A. Yes.\n20 MR. FINKEL: Government offers MER-5 and 6.\n21 MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.\n22 THE COURT: They are admitted.\n23 (Government's Exhibits MER-5 and MER-6 received in\n24 evidence)\n25 BY MR. FINKEL:\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct\n1 Q. Can we publish please, Ms. Loftus.\n2 Mr. Collins, what is your understanding about why\n3 Mercantile was provided these two documents that you said were\n4 trade confirmations?\n5 A. I presume this was part of our document collection related\n6 to our compliance function.\n7 Q. And on the left side of the screen it says seller sales\n8 1,308,000 and some more HCN at 24.46 per HCN, seller receives\n9 32 million HDO. Do you see that?\n10 A. Yes.\n11 Q. What was your understanding of what that meant?\n12 A. That meant the seller, which is listed just below, it says\n13 the name of the seller account William K. Je@ACap.com was\n14 selling HDO -- I'm sorry. He was selling HCN in exchange for\n15 HDO.\n16 Q. And what was HDO described to you as?\n17 A. A stable dollar. I'm sorry, a stable coin.\n18 Q. What was the price of HDO described to you as?\n19 A. The price was always equal to one, because it was backed\n20 one to one by the stable -- I'm sorry, by the U.S. dollar.\n21 Q. And HCN was described to you as what?\n22 A. HCN is a digital asset that is more akin to a true crypto\n23 coin like Bitcoin.\n24 Q. And that's how it was described to you?\n25 A. Yes.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct\n1 Q. So by selling this HCN, it says seller receives 32 million\n2 HDO, what's the U.S. dollar value of that?\n3 A. $32 million.\n4 Q. And then seeing the name of the seller account, did that\n5 provide any information to Mercantile about who this VIP client\n6 was?\n7 A. I believe our compliance department would have picked up on\n8 it at the time.\n9 Q. And so who was this VIP client that Mr. Je said he was\n10 helping redeem?\n11 A. It's William K -- well, it's either William Je or a firm\n12 called ACA Capital.\n13 Q. And the document on the right side of the screen where it\n14 says seller sells 572,000 and change at HCN, seller receives 14\n15 million HDO, what is your understanding of the U.S. dollar\n16 value of that 14 million HDO?\n17 A. 14 million.\n18 Q. So 32 million plus 14 million is how much?\n19 A. 46 million.\n20 Q. Is that the amount of money William Je was requesting to be\n21 transferred shortly after the bank seizure?\n22 A. Yes.\n23 Q. Upon learning that the client -- excuse me. Upon learning\n24 that the client for this transfer, this redemption, was William\n25 Je or ACA Cap, what reaction did you have to that, if any?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct\n1 A. I don't recall a specific reaction other than being annoyed\n2 that it wasn't forthcoming from the beginning.\n3 Q. That what wasn't forthcoming?\n4 A. That this was an account controlled by him.\n5 Q. That who just said this was an account --\n6 A. I'm sorry, William Je.\n7 Q. Ms. Loftus, if we can please put back up MER-1205. Can we\n8 go to the next page, please. Can you zoom in from the 9:03\n9 a.m. line.\n10 At 9:03 a.m. Mr. Je says, We are just doing normal\n11 redemption of a client, correct?\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. What was your understanding of that redemption referred to\n14 what transaction, if any?\n15 A. The transaction we just reviewed.\n16 Q. And a few lines down at 12:31 p.m. Mr. Je says, What\n17 documents you need for ACA? I can send you all. Do you see\n18 that, sir?\n19 A. Yes.\n20 Q. What's your understanding of why Mr. Je was asking what\n21 documents you needed for ACA?\n22 MR. KAMARAJU: Objection.\n23 THE COURT: I'll allow the question.\n24 A. Can you ask the question again.\n25 Q. What was your understanding why Mr. Je was asking you what\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct\n1 documents you, Mr. Collins, needed for ACA?\n2 A. William knew that we ran a rigorous compliance function.\n3 And in order for us to send a transaction of that size, we\n4 would have to do what we would call KYC on the receiver as well\n5 as the sender which we had already done.\n6 THE COURT: What do you mean by KYC?\n7 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. A Know Your Customer. It's\n8 a reference to being sure that you understand the bona fides of\n9 who's receiving $50 million, well, 46.\n10 Q. At this time, what was your understanding of what ACA was?\n11 A. I had come across ACA in some news articles early on in the\n12 relationship and didn't know much about it other than it was an\n13 entity facilitated with William Je, so that's all.\n14 Q. At the time you were having this conversation, September\n15 23, 2022, shortly after the bank seizure, the wire seizure,\n16 were you contemplating processing this transaction that Mr. Je\n17 was requesting?\n18 A. No.\n19 Q. Why not?\n20 A. It was clear that something was amiss. At that point in\n21 time we counted approximately $1.2 billion that had been seized\n22 by the U.S. government between two other banks.\n23 Q. Mr. Collins, why then were you requesting documentation\n24 from Mr. Je if you weren't going to process this transfer?\n25 A. Well, we have a commercial responsibility to consider\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct\n1 request, and we were doing that.\n2 Q. If we can scroll down a little bit please, Ms. Loftus.\n3 At 1:37 p.m., can you read what Mr. Je wrote?\n4 A. 1:37 p.m.?\n5 Q. Yes, sir.\n6 A. Okay. I could send you all the documents to show that I\n7 own ACA. Do you still need to go through your portal? We need\n8 the execution today or it is meaningless.\n9 Q. At the time what was your understanding of why it had to be\n10 executed today or it was meaningless?\n11 A. I had no understanding of that. I was confused by the\n12 term.\n13 Q. Why were you confused by the term \"meaningless?\"\n14 A. Because it didn't -- from my perspective it didn't appear\n15 meaningless.\n16 Q. Can we scroll down some more, Ms. Loftus.\n17 Can you read what Mr. Je wrote at 4:03 p.m. on\n18 9/23/2022?\n19 A. Send you all the ACA stuff. I have some updated\n20 information in Hong Kong, but I think the information is more\n21 than enough. We are just redeeming.\n22 Q. What did you understand the term to mean \"just redeeming?\"\n23 A. They were liquidating their holdings for dollars.\n24 Q. And then at 4:50 p.m., can you read what Mr. Je wrote?\n25 A. Masud does not know about ACA. If any questions, call me.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct\n1 Thanks.\n2 Q. Can you read what Mr. Je wrote at 8:12 p.m. on that same\n3 day, September 23?\n4 A. Please let me know if you need further information. We are\n5 redeeming and need to be done today. Other, it is meaningless.\n6 Q. After the wire was seized, did Mr. Je explain to you what\n7 the urgency was with respect to this redemption?\n8 A. No.\n9 Q. You can take that down. If we can display please what's\n10 been marked as Government Exhibit MER-8.\n11 By the way, in any of those messages that we just\n12 looked at, did Mr. Je blame the Chinese Communist Party for the\n13 troubles he was having with banking?\n14 A. I don't recall.\n15 Q. Can you see on your screen MER-8?\n16 A. Yes.\n17 Q. Take a look at that document. Who signed it?\n18 A. William Je.\n19 Q. What is this document?\n20 A. This looks like it's called a redemption request form, but\n21 it's really a request to wire funds.\n22 MR. FINKEL: Government offers MER-8.\n23 MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.\n24 THE COURT: It is admitted.\n25 (Government's Exhibit MER-8 received in evidence)\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct\n1 BY MR. FINKEL:\n2 Q. You said it's a redemption request form, but it's really\n3 what?\n4 A. It's a request to transfer funds to a bank called First Abu\n5 Dhabi Bank.\n6 Q. And what is the account holder of the First Abu Dhabi bank\n7 account?\n8 A. ACA Capital Group Limited.\n9 Q. Where is First Abu Dhabi bank located?\n10 A. Abu Dhabi in the UAE.\n11 Q. You can zoom out of that. It says at the bottom HDO\n12 redemption amount. You see that?\n13 A. Yes.\n14 Q. That amount 46 million HDO, what is your understanding at\n15 that time of how much in U.S. dollars that was worth?\n16 A. $46 million.\n17 Q. And this 46 million, does it pertain to the transaction\n18 documents that we've looked at in the chats you were having\n19 with Mr. Je at the time?\n20 A. Yes.\n21 Q. What effect, if any, did the fact that Mr. Je's request to\n22 send this $46 million to the Middle East have on you as a\n23 banker?\n24 A. I'm sorry. Could you ask the question again.\n25 Q. The fact that Mr. Je was requesting the $46 million be sent\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct\n1 to Abu Dhabi after this wire seizure related to this redemption\n2 for a client he didn't identify at first, what effect did that\n3 have on you in your consideration whether to process this wire?\n4 MR. KAMARAJU: Objection, form and compound.\n5 THE COURT: Sustained. It's compound.\n6 Q. What effect did the fact that Mr. Je was requesting you\n7 send this wire to Abu Dhabi have on consideration whether to\n8 process it as a banker?\n9 A. It felt uncomfortable. It appeared to be an attempt to\n10 move money outside of the jurisdiction of the United States.\n11 We're not clear on the various agreements between UAE and the\n12 United States, but it's known to be a jurisdiction that doesn't\n13 always cooperate with seizures.\n14 Q. Did you process the wire?\n15 A. No.\n16 Q. We can display what's been marked for identification as\n17 MER-1206. Go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus. Can you\n18 zoom in so, Mr. Collins can see it. Thank you.\n19 What is this document?\n20 A. This is more messages between me and William.\n21 MR. FINKEL: Government offers MER-1206.\n22 MR. KAMARAJU: No objection, your Honor.\n23 THE COURT: It is admitted.\n24 MR. FINKEL: If we could publish that please.\n25 (Government's Exhibit MER-1206 received)\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct\n1 BY MR. FINKEL:\n2 Q. If we could publish that please. What's the date of these\n3 messages?\n4 A. September 24, 2022.\n5 Q. Can you read Mr. Je's message to you at 11:14 p.m.?\n6 A. Yes. Hi, Bo, Rene, Priya and our lawyer spoke today. Our\n7 lawyer's negotiating with the DOJ and releasing the funds money\n8 to complete the transaction. We need a simple letter from your\n9 bank to show that you will suffer if the deal did not go\n10 through. If you want to inform the PMA on the matter, we are\n11 okay. I can assure you that none of the money comes from Miles\n12 and our independent fund administrator. Our internal\n13 compliance and the banking regulator have verified this\n14 already. Rene seems to doubt about this and even asked our\n15 lawyers on this. This will jeopardize our relationship with\n16 our lawyer.\n17 Q. Who is Rene?\n18 A. Rene Carson is the general counsel of MGH and MBI.\n19 Q. Meaning Mercantile?\n20 A. Yes.\n21 Q. What's the nature of your relationship with Rene Carson\n22 aside from her being the general counsel?\n23 A. She's my wife.\n24 Q. And then here it says, Want to inform PMA, what's PMA?\n25 A. PMA is a law firm based in Puerto Rico that represented\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct\n1 Hamilton Opportunity Fund.\n2 Q. What was your understanding of what Mr. Je meant when he\n3 messaged you, Rene seems to doubt about this and even asked our\n4 lawyers on this. This will jeopardize our relationship with\n5 our lawyer?\n6 A. He was responding to my message above that says, I'm\n7 shocked at what I just heard, which was that he didn't want us\n8 giving notice, which we were required to give in our commercial\n9 agreement, of the closing of any sort of default. So he did\n10 not want us communicating with PMA about the circumstances of\n11 this event.\n12 Q. Who is he, whose the \"he?\"\n13 A. William and Priya did not want us communicating with their\n14 attorneys about the circumstances of this event.\n15 Q. When you say this event, what do you mean?\n16 A. The seizures.\n17 Q. Did Mr. Je explain to you why he didn't want Mercantile\n18 communicating with Je's lawyers about the seizure?\n19 A. He wrote in the bottom that it would jeopardize our\n20 relationship with our lawyer.\n21 Q. Did Je explain why the seizure would jeopardize their\n22 relationship with their lawyer?\n23 A. He didn't offer me details.\n24 Q. In this message Mr. Je also request a simple letter from\n25 your bank Mercantile to show that you will suffer if the deal\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct\n1 did not go through. What was your understanding of what that\n2 meant?\n3 A. They were representing to us that they were in daily\n4 communication with the DOJ at that point, that they were\n5 requesting at a minimum the 49.5 million be released because it\n6 was injuring a third party and they wanted us to validate that.\n7 Q. Did Mercantile provide a letter?\n8 A. I believe so.\n9 Q. And below that it says, I can assure you that none of the\n10 money comes from Miles and our independent fund administrator.\n11 What is your understanding of who Miles refers to?\n12 A. Miles Guo.\n13 Q. Did Mercantile receive a warrant, a seizure warrant from\n14 the U.S. government?\n15 A. Initially we received a freeze and then later a seizure.\n16 Q. What's a freeze?\n17 A. A freeze means we can't move the money anywhere.\n18 Q. And what accounts did the freeze pertain to?\n19 A. I believe all the accounts related to William Je.\n20 Q. And then you said you received a seizure, what's the\n21 difference between a seizure and a freeze?\n22 A. A seizure means that we actually wire the money to the U.S.\n23 marshal office, and it becomes under the custody of the United\n24 States.\n25 Q. Did Mercantile do that, did Mercantile transfer the\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Direct\n1 Himalaya money to the United States government?\n2 A. Yes.\n3 Q. Did Mercantile retain any of the money that was in the\n4 Himalaya and G/Club accounts?\n5 A. Yes.\n6 Q. Why?\n7 A. We have commercial provisions in our contracts that allow\n8 us to offset for compliance and legal fees related to an\n9 account.\n10 Q. As a result of that, did you have a legal dispute with\n11 Hamilton?\n12 A. I don't recall a legal dispute on that issue, but I'm fuzzy\n13 on that.\n14 Q. Did you have any legal dispute with Hamilton, you meaning\n15 Mercantile?\n16 A. Yeah. Actually, I don't think we have any, other than we\n17 filed for an arbitration.\n18 Q. What do you mean by you, Mercantile?\n19 A. Mercantile Global Holdings.\n20 Q. Why did Mercantile file for an arbitration?\n21 A. Because they defaulted on the closing requirements?\n22 Q. Who is they?\n23 A. Hamilton Special Opportunity Fund.\n24 Q. Is there also an arbitration with G/Club?\n25 A. I believe there is one pending that's been stayed.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 MR. FINKEL: One moment. Nothing further at this\n2 time. Thank you, Mr. Collins.\n3 THE COURT: Cross-examination.\n4 MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you, your Honor. Just for\n5 planning purpose, are we taking the morning break at 11 or\n6 11:30?\n7 THE COURT: 11:30 will be our half an hour break, and\n8 then we'll take another break at 2:30.\n9 MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you, your Honor.\n10 CROSS-EXAMINATION\n11 BY MR. KAMARAJU:\n12 Q. Good morning, Mr. Collins.\n13 A. Good morning.\n14 Q. Now, could we bring up Government Exhibit MER-1205, please,\n15 which is in evidence.\n16 Now, Mr. Finkel asked you some questions about this on\n17 direct, correct?\n18 A. I presume so. I only see a header.\n19 Q. We could scroll through real quick so you can take a look.\n20 A. Yes, this is what we discussed.\n21 Q. And this was the exchange of Whatsapp messages about the\n22 redemption request, correct?\n23 A. Yes.\n24 Q. And you testified on direct that that redemption request\n25 never happened, right? Withdrawn.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 You testified on direct that you never wired any money\n2 pursuant to this redemption request, correct?\n3 A. We did not.\n4 Q. In fact, you were never intending to wire any money\n5 pursuant to this redemption request, correct?\n6 A. That's correct.\n7 Q. Could we go to page three of the document, please.\n8 Do you see a message there from Mr. Je at 9:03 p.m.,\n9 the second from the bottom?\n10 A. Hi, please hold until Monday.\n11 Q. He's referring to this redemption request, right?\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. And you had never told him that you didn't intend to honor\n14 this redemption request, right?\n15 A. I never told him that.\n16 Q. So, in fact, Mr. Je called it off on his own accord,\n17 correct?\n18 A. Yes.\n19 Q. And that was before you processed it, correct?\n20 A. Yes.\n21 Q. We can take that down for a second.\n22 Now, the transaction that you described between\n23 Hamilton and Mercantile Bank, that was for Hamilton to acquire\n24 a stake in the bank, right?\n25 A. Technically the holding company that wholly owns the bank,\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 but yes.\n2 Q. So indirectly buying the bank by buying an interest in the\n3 holding company, right?\n4 A. Right.\n5 Q. You testified on direct I believe that that transaction\n6 closed September 16 of 2022, right?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. And prior to the transaction closing, you had to receive\n9 authorization for something you called OCIF?\n10 A. Correct.\n11 Q. You made an application to OCIF, correct?\n12 A. I think technically the application was made by William Je\n13 and Hamilton Special Opportunity Fund.\n14 Q. Did Mercantile not have any submission to the OCIF as part\n15 of it.\n16 A. I don't recall what was required. We had attorneys\n17 handling it, both inside and outside counsel.\n18 Q. You understood that in connection with that application, it\n19 was going to the entity that regulated your bank, right?\n20 A. Correct.\n21 Q. And so it was important to you to honor your commitments to\n22 that regulator, correct?\n23 A. Correct.\n24 Q. And in fact you said that to Mr. Je on several occasions,\n25 right?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 A. Yes.\n2 Q. And you didn't want to be associated -- withdrawn.\n3 You didn't want your regulator to associate you with\n4 any kind of misconduct, right?\n5 A. Correct.\n6 Q. That would have a negative impact on your bank, right?\n7 A. Correct.\n8 Q. And that application that went in, whether it was for\n9 Hamilton or Mercantile, that went in, in April of 2022, right?\n10 A. That sounds about right.\n11 Q. And that's right around Easter of that year, right?\n12 A. Yeah, I don't recall the specific dates.\n13 Q. But that is around the time that the loan went in, right?\n14 A. Correct.\n15 Q. Now, could we pull up Government Exhibit MER-1204, please.\n16 And this is in evidence so we can put it up for the jury.\n17 A. It's just a header for me.\n18 Q. I'm going to have it scrolled through once the jury can see\n19 it. Okay. So could we just scroll through that so the witness\n20 can take a look at it.\n21 Do you recall testifying about this exchange of\n22 messages on direct?\n23 A. Yes.\n24 Q. And you remember Mr. Finkel asking you questions about this\n25 line, There is no universe that I will be carrying 100 million\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 of BTC on a thumb drive to Dubai, right?\n2 A. Yes.\n3 Q. You sent that message on March 17, 2022, correct?\n4 A. Yes.\n5 Q. So that's before you submitted the OCIF application,\n6 correct?\n7 A. I don't -- could you tell me the date of the OCIF\n8 submission? I don't recall it.\n9 Q. Sure. Maybe we can put up side-by-side with this\n10 defense -- actually, let's take this down and just for the\n11 witness put up DX-60554.\n12 Do you see that?\n13 A. Yes.\n14 Q. Is this the application?\n15 A. It appears to be a letter to OCIF. If you could reduce it\n16 back. That describes the transaction. Can we go down the\n17 letter so I can see the whole thing?\n18 Q. Sure.\n19 A. Okay. That's signed by Hamilton's counsel.\n20 Q. Before we do that. Is this the application?\n21 A. I believe this is the application that Hamilton submitted.\n22 Q. And this was the application submitted to OCIF?\n23 A. Yes.\n24 Q. And it's in connection with the Mercantile/Hamilton\n25 transaction?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 A. Yes.\n2 MR. KAMARAJU: The defense offers DX-60554, your\n3 Honor.\n4 MR. FINKEL: I have a question for clarification.\n5 This is Hamilton's application?\n6 THE WITNESS: I'm unclear. We can look at the last\n7 page. We went through it very fast.\n8 BY MR. KAMARAJU:\n9 Q. How about you just blow up the first paragraph just for the\n10 witness.\n11 A. So that is a request for the approval.\n12 Q. I'm sorry. I meant the very first paragraph.\n13 A. That paragraph, I'm not trying to be pedantic, but it\n14 describes that we are requesting approval for this transaction,\n15 but that is not necessarily the application. I think there's a\n16 distinction.\n17 Q. Understood. Is this a letter submitted to OCIF in\n18 connection with the application related to the\n19 Mercantile/Hamilton transaction?\n20 A. Yes.\n21 Q. Is it a letter submitted on behalf of your bank?\n22 A. I believe so.\n23 MR. KAMARAJU: The defense offers DX-60554.\n24 A. Can I look at the signatories again. I'm a little confused\n25 on that.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 Q. Feel free.\n2 A. Yeah, so, it's signed by our counsel and Hamilton's\n3 counsel, so that may be perhaps why I don't recall the letter,\n4 but okay.\n5 THE COURT: Is there any objection?\n6 MR. FINKEL: Yes. Objection, hearsay, authenticity,\n7 couple of things.\n8 MR. KAMARAJU: I'm not offering it for the contents of\n9 the letter. I'm simply offering it for the fact that it was\n10 submitted.\n11 THE COURT: You're not offering it for the contents,\n12 but merely for the fact that the letter was submitted?\n13 MR. KAMARAJU: Yes.\n14 THE COURT: It is admitted.\n15 (Defendant's Exhibit 60554 received in evidence)\n16 MR. KAMARAJU: Could we publish that.\n17 MR. FINKEL: Can I ask one question. Have you seen\n18 this letter before?\n19 THE WITNESS: I don't recall seeing it by memory.\n20 MR. FINKEL: I renew the objection.\n21 THE COURT: I'm going to permit the letter.\n22 Q. Can we publish it, please. So you see the date of this,\n23 it's April 18, 2022?\n24 A. Yes.\n25 Q. So it's fair to say that at this time as of this date you\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 were still pursuing the transaction with Hamilton, correct?\n2 A. Yes.\n3 Q. So now if we could go back and put up Government Exhibit\n4 MER-1204, please. If we could go to the second page, and if we\n5 could blow up the message that starts, There's no universe.\n6 You see that?\n7 A. Yes, sir.\n8 Q. So you sent that message on March 17, 2022?\n9 A. Yes, sir.\n10 Q. You sent this message before the letter we just looked at\n11 was submitted to OCIF?\n12 A. Yes, sir.\n13 Q. Nothing about your conversation with Mr. Je about carrying\n14 $100 million of Bitgo on a thumb drive to Dubai caused you to\n15 cancel that transaction with Hamilton, correct?\n16 A. No.\n17 Q. And you didn't report this request to OCIF, right?\n18 A. Well, I'm not sure we have an obligation to report it to\n19 OCIF, but we have an obligation to report it on SARS.\n20 Q. I'm not asking about your legal understanding of anything,\n21 I'm just asking the fact of it is that you did not submit it\n22 OCIF?\n23 A. Yes.\n24 Q. Let's pull up Government Exhibit GX-MER-138. We can\n25 publish that as well.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 This is the bank statement that shows the loan going\n2 out, right?\n3 A. I believe so.\n4 Q. So it's fair to say that your conversation with Mr. Je\n5 about the loan going out occurred before this transaction,\n6 right?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. And the wire goes out April 15 of 2022, correct? If you go\n9 down to where it says withdrawal 37 million.\n10 A. Looks like April 15.\n11 Q. So the loan also went out before the OCIF letter that we\n12 just looked at was submitted, correct?\n13 A. Correct.\n14 Q. And nothing about this loan request made you cancel the\n15 transaction with Hamilton, correct?\n16 A. Correct.\n17 Q. You didn't report the loan to OCIF either, did you?\n18 A. I don't recall what we did or didn't report, but it doesn't\n19 come to mind.\n20 Q. We can take that down.\n21 Now, you were asked a question on direct about a\n22 phrase, \"To the moon,\" right?\n23 A. Yes.\n24 Q. And you saw a video with Mr. Guo when which that phrase was\n25 used, correct?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 A. Yes.\n2 Q. And you described it as marketing material basically,\n3 right?\n4 A. Yes.\n5 Q. And I think you said that the phrase \"To the moon\"\n6 originally came from an old black and white TV show, right?\n7 A. Yeah, I think it was the Honeymooners.\n8 Q. That's what I was going to ask. It was the Honeymooners,\n9 right?\n10 A. Yes.\n11 Q. It's a common phrase in the cryptocurrency industry, right?\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. Mr. Guo is not the only person who's ever used that phrase,\n14 right?\n15 A. No.\n16 Q. Elon Musk used that phrase about Dogecoin, correct?\n17 MR. FINKEL: Objection.\n18 A. I don't know.\n19 THE COURT: Sustained.\n20 Q. You heard that phrase in the course of your following the\n21 cryptocurrency industry, correct?\n22 A. Yes.\n23 Q. And Mercantile Bank, I understand it's winding down --\n24 withdrawn.\n25 Mercantile Bank was a bank based in Puerto Rico,\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 right?\n2 A. Yes.\n3 Q. When was it founded?\n4 A. I believe we received our license to organize around\n5 December of '16 -- I'm sorry, December of '18, and we began\n6 operating in the Spring of '19.\n7 Q. Now, prior to founding Mercantile Bank, you were also\n8 looking at starting a cryptocurrency exchange, right?\n9 A. That was part of our original plan.\n10 Q. And you were going to call it the San Juan Mercantile\n11 Exchange, right?\n12 A. Correct.\n13 Q. What is your understanding of what a cryptocurrency is?\n14 MR. FINKEL: Objection.\n15 THE COURT: Overruled. When you say that it was\n16 contemplated that you may start such an entity, are you\n17 speaking of yourself personally or the bank?\n18 THE WITNESS: The holding company. So Mercantile\n19 Global Holdings owned two -- at that time we owned two assets,\n20 one was a bank, and the other was what we called San Juan\n21 Mercantile Exchange, and the two were meant to operate\n22 together.\n23 THE COURT: You may answer the question as to what\n24 your understanding of a cryptocurrency exchange is.\n25 A. A cryptocurrency exchange matches buyers and sellers of a\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 given crypto asset, usually for some fiat currency. Sometimes\n2 for a different crypto asset.\n3 Q. Now, the San Juan Mercantile Exchange never actually\n4 launched, correct?\n5 A. Correct.\n6 Q. But Mercantile the bank did have a cryptocurrency focus,\n7 correct?\n8 A. Correct.\n9 Q. And I think you testified on direct that your vision for\n10 the bank was that it would be a settlement bank to the digital\n11 asset industry. You remember that?\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. What's a settlement bank?\n14 A. A settlement bank means that we are facilitating a clearing\n15 of funds related to transactions on an exchange.\n16 Q. So that, if I understand you correctly, the clearing of\n17 those funds occurs after there's a transaction on the exchange;\n18 is that right?\n19 A. It depends on how the transactions being handled, but it\n20 could be described as contemporaneous, but either instantly or\n21 soon thereafter.\n22 Q. And that's what you mean by settlement, right?\n23 A. Correct.\n24 Q. You also testified that Mercantile was the first bank in\n25 the U.S. to have a license to hold and transmit digital assets,\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 correct?\n2 A. Correct.\n3 Q. What do you mean by hold and transmit digital assets?\n4 A. We could custody your digital assets. So let's just use\n5 Bitcoin as an example. If you wanted to deposit Bitcoin with\n6 our bank, we could hold that asset in custody for you. We\n7 could also transmit it.\n8 Q. And that's one of the offerings that your bank marketed,\n9 right?\n10 A. Yes.\n11 Q. And I think you testified on direct that there are 20,000\n12 cryptocurrencies to your knowledge?\n13 A. I've lost track of the number.\n14 Q. Fair to say thousands?\n15 A. At least.\n16 Q. And so would your bank provide custody services for all of\n17 those?\n18 A. No.\n19 Q. Why might your bank not provide custody services for a\n20 cryptocurrency asset?\n21 A. That industry is rife with projects that won't succeed.\n22 There are some projects that are not cognizant of laws that we\n23 have to follow. And quite frankly from a commercial\n24 perspective, there's just not enough business in 99 percent of\n25 the coins --\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 THE INTERPRETER: Your Honor, interpreter is\n2 requesting all parties to slow down a little bit.\n3 THE COURT: Please slow down both the questioner and\n4 the witness.\n5 MR. KAMARAJU: Understood, your Honor.\n6 A. I'll start over. There are dubious projects in crypto that\n7 are problematic that don't necessarily respect the laws of our\n8 jurisdiction, and then there are commercial concerns about the\n9 effort to onboard a specific coin as it relates to just\n10 economic activity.\n11 Q. And so your bank picks and chooses between which\n12 cryptocurrencies it will service for lack of a better word\n13 after evaluating those factors, correct?\n14 A. Correct.\n15 Q. You also testified that Mercantile was a corresponding\n16 bank. Do you remember that?\n17 A. We had one corresponding relationship.\n18 Q. What does that mean? What is a corresponding bank?\n19 A. Typically that just means that two banks have accounts with\n20 each other.\n21 Q. And correspondent banking is often used when you have\n22 transactions in different currencies, right?\n23 A. That's one purpose, yeah.\n24 Q. Can you explain how that would work to the jury?\n25 A. So I'll try to create a simple example. I think that's the\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 easiest way to consider it. If JPMorgan has a client that owns\n2 dollars and needs to purchase industrial equipment in Germany\n3 that has to be transacted in euros, then often they will use a\n4 bank account that they have with a bank in Germany where they\n5 keep money in both dollars and euros and they'll simply accept\n6 money from their client in the United States in dollars and\n7 then they will make the payment to the German manufacturer out\n8 of the German corresponding account that JPMorgan has in euros.\n9 So there's a simultaneous transmission of value and an exchange\n10 between one currency and the other. So it's the most efficient\n11 way to manage international multicurrency transactions.\n12 Q. Right. And that's because a bank user, example JPMorgan\n13 and the United States, may not just be able to send euros from\n14 New York to Berlin, right?\n15 A. Yes, fair enough.\n16 Q. And for an international banking institution like\n17 Mercantile, having corresponding relationships that allowed\n18 U.S. dollar transactions was pretty significant, right?\n19 A. Yes. We did not have a direct account with a federal\n20 reserve, so we depended on our own bank accounts with other\n21 banks to facilitate transactions on behalf of our clients.\n22 Q. I'm going to come back to the federal reserve.\n23 At the time that G/Clubs became a client, you had a\n24 correspondent banking relationship with Medici Bank, correct?\n25 A. Yes.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 Q. But Medici wasn't the first correspondent banking\n2 relationship that Mercantile had entered into, right?\n3 A. We had other accounts at other banks that I guess you could\n4 describe as corresponding banks.\n5 Q. Well, you had a corresponding banking relationship with\n6 Signature Bank, right?\n7 A. Correct.\n8 Q. And when you did that, Mercantile was processing\n9 transactions for --\n10 A. No. No. I'm sorry. I misstated that. I don't believe we\n11 had an account. Our account with Signature Bank I believe was\n12 purely an operating account which is different from a\n13 corresponding account.\n14 Q. Are you familiar with a company called Bittrex?\n15 A. Yes.\n16 Q. Was Bittrex ever a client at Mercantile Bank?\n17 A. Briefly.\n18 Q. Did you use Signature Bank to process transactions on\n19 behalf of Bittrex?\n20 MR. FINKEL: Objection, 401, 403.\n21 THE COURT: You'll step up, please.\n22 (Continued on next page)\n23\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 (At the sidebar)\n2 THE COURT: How is all of this relevant?\n3 MR. KAMARAJU: I don't have a lot of questions. I'm\n4 just trying to clarify the kind of account. My understanding\n5 from his 3500 material was that this client Bittrex was using\n6 Mercantile to do corresponding banking transactions through\n7 Signature, so I'm just trying to clarify that. I don't intend\n8 to dwell on this topic at all.\n9 THE COURT: Why is it relevant?\n10 MR. KAMARAJU: Well, corresponding banking\n11 relationships are relevant, that's all. Because he goes from\n12 here to -- he loses this banking relationship. He then\n13 struggles to find another corresponding banking relationship.\n14 It's his belief that that has, one, to do with the fact that\n15 the bank is in Puerto Rico. And two, it has to do with\n16 cryptocurrency. I' just establishing that in fact it can be\n17 difficult to establish banking relationships. The issue of that\n18 is going to be relevant throughout the trial.\n19 MR. FINKEL: I don't see how Mercantile's\n20 relationships with other customers is relevant, in particular a\n21 customer like Bittrex. The defense moved to make sure that\n22 Mr. Collins was not used as a pseudo-cryptocurrency expert,\n23 that's why I objected to the question about the cryptocurrency\n24 exchanges initially. That question in and of itself was fine.\n25 I was worried about the line had been drawn. I think if the\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 defense is trying to use Mercantile's relationships with other\n2 clients, particularly crypto clients like Bittrex to try to\n3 draw comparisons and parallels to the Himalaya Exchange, that's\n4 inappropriate. That's a 403 problem. It's a 702 problem, but\n5 the relevance question I think predominates. While there has\n6 been evidence at this trial about the difficulty of G/Clubs,\n7 for example, or Guo's enterprise to obtain banking\n8 relationships, Bittrex ability to obtain banking relationships\n9 is not relevant at all to this trial. And it wouldn't be\n10 appropriate to draw a comparison between entities in the Guo\n11 enterprise and Bittrex, and that's the only possible relevance\n12 to that question. To the extent it is relevant, it would be\n13 confusing to the jury.\n14 THE COURT: What is Bittrex?\n15 MR. KAMARAJU: It's a cryptocurrency exchange.\n16 THE COURT: Is this one of those widely considered\n17 legitimate exchanges?\n18 MR. FINKEL: Yes.\n19 MR. KAMARAJU: It is. But, first of all, it's not\n20 Bittrex that has the difficulty with maintaining banking\n21 relationships. It's Mercantile. I have no intention of\n22 suggesting anything about Bittrex's banking relationships or\n23 comparing the exchange to Bittrex. I just understood that it\n24 was a corresponding banking relationship that he had with\n25 Signature. He told me it wasn't. I was trying to clarify that\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 through at least what was in the 3500. I don't intend to\n2 either here or during summation to say anything about the fact\n3 that Bittrex, the fact that Bittrex was a client of Mercantile\n4 has anything to do with the exchange. I'm literally just\n5 trying to get to point of Mercantile's own banking\n6 relationships, not Bittrex.\n7 MR. FINKEL: Then the question should be, did\n8 Mercantile have problems obtaining corresponding banking\n9 relationships. By that description itself, I think basically\n10 concedes that Bittrex's point has no relevance, because the\n11 point can be made without Bittrex. The only reason I objected\n12 is because of the Bittrex reference.\n13 MR. KAMARAJU: I only responded to the fact that the\n14 witness said there was a corresponding banking relationship. I\n15 was just trying to get back to that. If you want, I'll ask\n16 that question if that's the only reason for asking about\n17 Bittrex.\n18 THE COURT: I think that's a better question.\n19 MR. KAMARAJU: That's fine, your Honor. I would just\n20 note that the witnesses sometime have difficulty with longer\n21 questions or more generalized questions, which is why I was\n22 trying to more specific in the first instance.\n23 THE COURT: All righty.\n24 (Continued on next page)\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 (In open court; jury present)\n2 THE COURT: Sustained.\n3 BY MR. KAMARAJU:\n4 Q. Did there come a point where Mercantile Bank had\n5 difficulties obtaining corresponding banking relationships?\n6 A. Yes, we always tried to maintain more than one, and\n7 corresponding banking is difficult at best.\n8 Q. And it's particularly difficult for banks based in Puerto\n9 Rico, correct?\n10 A. I believe so.\n11 Q. And it's particularly difficulty for -- withdrawn.\n12 What is your understanding as to why it's difficult\n13 for banks based in Puerto Rico to obtain corresponding banking\n14 relationships?\n15 A. There's a perception bias. I can't say I'm an expert on\n16 what drives the bias, but at the end of the day it's human\n17 beings making a decision. That would be mostly the issue I\n18 think.\n19 Q. And banks that primarily service cryptocurrency clients, do\n20 they similarly have problems obtaining corresponding banking\n21 relationship?\n22 MR. FINKEL: Objection.\n23 THE COURT: I'll allow the question.\n24 A. Yes.\n25 Q. And what's your understanding of why that is?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 MR. FINKEL: Same objection as to other banks.\n2 THE COURT: So you're asking about banks based in\n3 Puerto Rico. What is the question?\n4 MR. KAMARAJU: I asked about banks based in Puerto\n5 Rico. Now I'm asking about banks that predominantly facilitate\n6 cryptocurrency customers.\n7 THE COURT: If you'll just stick to his bank.\n8 MR. KAMARAJU: Sure.\n9 Q. Mercantile is a bank that had a focus on cryptocurrency,\n10 correct?\n11 A. Correct.\n12 Q. And that was one of the factors that you believed made it\n13 difficult for Mercantile to obtain corresponding banking\n14 relationships, correct?\n15 A. Correct.\n16 Q. Why did you believe that?\n17 A. Because it was shared with us by corresponding banks that\n18 we had made applications to.\n19 Q. By the way, do you know what Sharps Pixley?\n20 A. Sharps Pixley. Can you spell Sharps?\n21 Q. Common spelling, S-H-A-R-P-S.\n22 A. And Pixley?\n23 Q. P-I-X-L-E-Y.\n24 A. I'm not sure I'm familiar with that term.\n25 Q. You do know what FV Bank is, right?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 A. Yes.\n2 Q. FV Bank is another bank in Puerto Rico, right?\n3 A. Yes.\n4 Q. And its offices are close to Mercantile offices, right?\n5 A. I don't actually know where their offices are.\n6 Q. Fair enough. Now, you testified on direct that you were\n7 first introduced to G/Club through an individual called Alex H,\n8 right?\n9 A. No.\n10 Q. Who introduced you first to G/Club?\n11 A. Our introduction came through essentially Medici because we\n12 were processing transactions for Medici who was processing\n13 transactions for G/Club.\n14 Q. After Medici made that introduction, you had a meeting at\n15 your home with Ana Izquierdo and Limarie Reyes, right?\n16 A. Yes.\n17 Q. And you understand they were executives at G/Club?\n18 A. Yes.\n19 Q. Why was that meeting at your home?\n20 A. It was convenient for me at the time. My office -- I\n21 believe this was not -- we were still in a strange environment\n22 related to Covid, and it was just more convenient for me to\n23 meet there.\n24 Q. And I think you testified on direct that the Chinese\n25 Communist Party did not come up during that meeting, right?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 A. Yeah, I don't recall it.\n2 Q. But you also testified on direct that you had a discussion\n3 with Ms. Reyes and Ms. Izquierdo that there was a Chinese\n4 diaspora of like-minded people that were interested in these\n5 types of offerings, do you remember that?\n6 A. Yes.\n7 Q. What do you mean Chinese diaspora?\n8 A. Generally I mean by that Chinese either current or former\n9 citizens who left China that reside somewhere else.\n10 Q. And when you use the phrase \"like-minded people,\" what do\n11 you mean by that?\n12 A. People that wanted to leave China because of the political\n13 system.\n14 Q. When you talk about these types of offerings, you refer to\n15 G/Club offerings, right?\n16 A. Can you state that question again.\n17 Q. Sure. The types of offerings that members of the Chinese\n18 diaspora that you were describing, those were the offerings\n19 that G/Clubs was marketing, correct?\n20 A. Yes.\n21 Q. Now, at the time that you met with Ms. Reyes, they were\n22 looking to switch banks, fair enough?\n23 A. Yes.\n24 Q. They were no longer satisfied with Medici services,\n25 correct?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 A. Yes.\n2 Q. And they ultimately did make that switch, right?\n3 A. Yes.\n4 Q. Did they explain to you why they were not satisfied with\n5 Medici?\n6 A. They didn't like the amount of communication and they felt\n7 the technology was not sufficient.\n8 Q. Now, once Mercantile opened the G/Club bank accounts, there\n9 were millions of dollars that flowed into those accounts,\n10 right?\n11 A. I can't recall the timeline of transactions. I believe the\n12 bulk of those transactions happen before we had a direct\n13 relationship with G/Clubs.\n14 Q. Fair enough. Regardless of before or after Medici, there\n15 was millions of dollars flowing into G/Clubs accounts held at\n16 Mercantile, correct?\n17 A. Yes.\n18 Q. How does Mercantile earn revenue from its banking business?\n19 A. Usually we earn money through transaction fees and through\n20 an interest rate spread, because for digital assets, typically\n21 banks don't pay any interest on the funds.\n22 Q. So if there are U.S. dollars sitting in a bank account at\n23 Mercantile, can you explain to us how Mercantile might make\n24 money off of that?\n25 A. We deposit that in short-term overnight funds with double A\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 rated banks, and we receive essentially the fed funds rate.\n2 And -- that I don't remember the exact rate at the time, but\n3 since we started the bank, that's range from one percent to as\n4 high as five and a quarter percent.\n5 Q. And so the more money that's in an account, the more money\n6 the bank earns, right?\n7 A. Correct.\n8 Q. So the bank earned those same payments off the G/Clubs\n9 inflows, right?\n10 A. Yes.\n11 Q. And on direct you were asked questions about the due\n12 diligence process that Mercantile engaged in with new clients.\n13 Remember that?\n14 A. Mm hm.\n15 Q. You testified that you understood that that kind of due\n16 diligence was required under the Bank Secrecy Act, correct?\n17 A. Yes.\n18 Q. And part of that process is determining who the UBO is,\n19 right?\n20 A. Yes.\n21 Q. Tell us again what UBO stands for?\n22 A. Ultimate beneficial owner.\n23 Q. How does Mercantile determine typically who the UBO is?\n24 A. So we have a compliance team that collects data. They\n25 evaluate the data. They ask people to make certain\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 attestations about what percentage they own of a company, what\n2 control they have. And based on those answers, they make an\n3 evaluation.\n4 Q. And you testified on direct that another part of the due\n5 diligence process was determining the source of funds, right?\n6 A. Yes.\n7 Q. So same question, how does Mercantile determine the source\n8 of funds coming in from a potential client typically?\n9 A. That's a more complicated process that involves a lot of\n10 research that my team takes care of. I'm not an expert in\n11 that.\n12 Q. You have a team at the bank who's responsible for doing\n13 that?\n14 A. Right.\n15 Q. Now, you are aware at the time G/Club was seeking to open\n16 bank accounts that there was a relationship or a connection\n17 between G/Clubs and Miles Guo, right?\n18 A. Yes.\n19 Q. And you testified on direct that you had concerns about\n20 that connection, and in particular Mr. Guo based on risk\n21 profile and his history with the Chinese government, right?\n22 A. Yes.\n23 Q. What did you mean by his history with the Chinese\n24 government?\n25 A. My understanding was he had been accused of criminal\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 activity, that he had fled the country and was seeking asylum\n2 or was granted asylum in the U.S., and that is quite frankly\n3 too much information for us to unpack.\n4 Q. I didn't hear the last part.\n5 A. Too much information for us to unpack.\n6 Q. And by \"unpack\" you mean that was enough for the bank\n7 basically?\n8 A. To make a determination if it was true, what crimes had\n9 been committed or not committed, like it's a very complicated\n10 situation. And we took the more conservative position that\n11 that was a risk profile we could not tolerate.\n12 Q. And that risk profile would be problematic for the bank if\n13 Mr. Guo was the UBO of G/Club, right?\n14 A. Yes.\n15 Q. And it would be problematic for the bank if the source of\n16 G/Club's money was Mr. Guo, correct?\n17 A. Correct.\n18 Q. And so the bank did in fact run its due diligence process\n19 on G/Clubs, correct?\n20 A. Correct.\n21 Q. And you have no reason to believe that that process was any\n22 different than what it runs on any of its other customers,\n23 right?\n24 A. Correct.\n25 Q. You don't believe the bank took it easy on G/Club, right?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 A. Correct.\n2 Q. And as a result that due diligence process revealed that\n3 Mr. Guo was not the UBO, correct?\n4 A. As far as our research concluded, that's the case.\n5 Q. And same with respect to the source of funds, it concluded\n6 that they did not come from him, correct?\n7 A. That is true.\n8 Q. You also testified about the same thing with respect to\n9 G Fashion, right?\n10 A. I believe so.\n11 Q. So you open accounts for G Fashion, correct?\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. You had the same concerns with respect to G Fashion and its\n14 connection to Mr. Guo, right?\n15 A. Correct.\n16 Q. The bank ran due diligence on G Fashion, correct?\n17 A. Correct.\n18 Q. And as a result of its due diligence, it opened accounts\n19 for G Fashion, right?\n20 A. Yes.\n21 Q. And Mr. Finkel asked you a number of questions about if the\n22 bank had known that Mr. Guo had operational control of G/Club,\n23 would the bank had opened the account, correct? You remember\n24 those questions?\n25 A. Yes.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 Q. So at the time that the bank opened the G/Club account, the\n2 bank concluded that Mr. Guo did not have operational control of\n3 G/Club, correct?\n4 A. Correct.\n5 Q. And it determined that he did not have operational control\n6 of G Fashion, correct?\n7 A. Correct.\n8 Q. And sitting here today, you have never seen any evidence\n9 that he has operational control of G/Club, correct?\n10 A. Correct.\n11 Q. And you have never seen any evidence sitting here today\n12 that he has operational control of G Fashion, correct?\n13 A. Correct.\n14 Q. And you have never seen any evidence sitting here today\n15 that he has operational control of Himalaya Exchange, correct?\n16 A. Correct.\n17 Q. And, in fact, during all of your negotiations with Mr. Je,\n18 whether it was about the acquisition, the loans, the redemption\n19 request, you never communicated with this man Mr. Guo, correct?\n20 A. Correct.\n21 Q. In fact, you have never spoken to Mr. Guo, right?\n22 A. Not to my knowledge.\n23 Q. Sitting here in this courtroom is the first time you've\n24 ever seen him in person, right?\n25 A. Correct.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 Q. Now, I like to talk about Yield Esta. Can you remind us\n2 what Yield Esta is. Am I saying that right first.\n3 A. Yield Esta, yes.\n4 Q. Can you remind us what it is?\n5 A. It was an investment vehicle for futures trading based on\n6 algorithmic programs.\n7 Q. When you say investment vehicle, is that another word for\n8 hedge fund?\n9 A. I wouldn't describe this as a hedge fund, but it's similar.\n10 THE COURT: Mr. Kamaraju, if you would spell out what\n11 it is you're describing.\n12 Q. So it's Yield Esta. correct me if I'm wrong,\n13 Y-E-L-D-E-S-T-A. Is that right, sir?\n14 A. It's the word \"Yield\" with Esta.\n15 THE COURT: If you'll speak into the microphone,\n16 please.\n17 A. It's the word \"yield\" with Esta on it.\n18 THE COURT: Go ahead.\n19 Q. And you just mentioned it was focused on algorithmic\n20 trading?\n21 A. Yes.\n22 Q. I'm not going to dive into the details of it. I want to\n23 say, is it fair to say that algorithmic trading is an\n24 investment strategy of some sort?\n25 A. Yes.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 Q. And it's the investment strategy that Yield Esta employs,\n2 right?\n3 A. Yes.\n4 Q. A when you say it's focused on futures trading, a future is\n5 just a particular kind of asset class, right?\n6 A. Correct.\n7 Q. So Yield Esta employs a particular investment strategy tied\n8 to a particular asset class, right?\n9 A. Correct.\n10 Q. And who sets the strategy, for that investment strategy for\n11 Yield Esta?\n12 A. I did.\n13 Q. It wasn't the folks at G/Clubs who invested that set the\n14 strategy, right?\n15 A. No.\n16 Q. Are you a registered investment advisor, sir?\n17 A. No, I don't have to be.\n18 Q. I wasn't asking about the obligation.\n19 When G/Clubs invested in Yield Esta, you provided them\n20 certain information about the, I'll use investment your term\n21 \"investment vehicle,\" right?\n22 A. Correct.\n23 Q. They decided if they wanted to invest, right?\n24 A. Correct.\n25 Q. They sent you subscription documents, right?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 A. Yes.\n2 Q. They sent you money, right?\n3 A. Yes.\n4 Q. And, in fact, they sent you money before they were even\n5 allowed to open accounts at the bank, right?\n6 A. I don't remember that.\n7 Q. Withdrawn. Once G/Club sent the money to you, it was your\n8 decision how to invest it though, right?\n9 A. Yes.\n10 Q. And you do have experience advising clients on investments,\n11 right?\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. You worked at a fund before, right?\n14 A. Yes.\n15 Q. Before you got into the banking space?\n16 A. Yes.\n17 Q. What was the name of that fund?\n18 A. Mother Rock.\n19 Q. Now, after G/Clubs had opened its accounts, we'll stick\n20 with Alex H, Alex H suggested that you should meet another\n21 potential client, right?\n22 A. Yes.\n23 Q. And that was the cryptocurrency exchange Himalaya Exchange,\n24 right?\n25 A. Yes.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 Q. And I think you testified that was in late summer or early\n2 fall of 2021, right?\n3 A. Yes.\n4 Q. So the exchange had not -- was not up and running yet at\n5 this time, right?\n6 A. No.\n7 Q. It was still in developmental phases, right?\n8 A. We had not pursued plans to launch the exchange very early\n9 in our process.\n10 Q. I'm sorry. I think I may have confused you with my\n11 question.\n12 I was referring to the Himalaya Exchange was not up\n13 and running by the late summer of 2021?\n14 A. I don't think so.\n15 Q. How many -- again, I'm not asking for names, was it unusual\n16 for you to have a cryptocurrency exchange as a client?\n17 A. No.\n18 Q. So you had others, right?\n19 A. Over time. Timeline is important in all these questions.\n20 Q. Fair enough. And I'm not trying to pin you down to\n21 anything.\n22 Prior to beginning to engage with the Exchange,\n23 Mercantile had had other exchanges as clients in the past,\n24 that's my question?\n25 A. Yes.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 Q. Now, at the time you first learned of the Himalaya\n2 Exchange, Mercantile was experiencing a bit of a cash crunch,\n3 right?\n4 A. Yes.\n5 Q. And you had been trying to raise money to keep the bank's\n6 operations going, right?\n7 A. Correct.\n8 Q. And you were telling potential investors that you needed\n9 cash to keep the bank going, right?\n10 A. Yes.\n11 Q. And one of the investors that you, let's say recorded for\n12 lack of a better phrase, was a company called Tingo, right?\n13 A. Yes.\n14 Q. What is Tingo?\n15 A. At the time I understood Tingo to be a company doing\n16 commodity transactions in Europe and Africa who had ambitions\n17 to go public.\n18 Q. Based on what you knew at the time, so I'm just asking for\n19 what you knew, sir. Did you know if Tingo had any\n20 cryptocurrency operations?\n21 MR. FINKEL: Objection, pertains to what we talked\n22 about at the sidebar.\n23 THE COURT: Sustained.\n24 MR. KAMARAJU: Could I have a very brief sidebar on\n25 this, your Honor?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 THE COURT: Okay.\n2 (Continued on next page)\n3\n4\n5\n6\n7\n8\n9\n10\n11\n12\n13\n14\n15\n16\n17\n18\n19\n20\n21\n22\n23\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 (At the sidebar)\n2 MR. KAMARAJU: So the only reason I asked that is\n3 because the timeline, as I understand it is, he is discussing a\n4 transaction with Tingo. He then meets William Je, and William\n5 Je proposes a transaction, and he opts to go with William Je's\n6 transaction over Tingo, including in part because his bank and\n7 the Exchange had synergies, on the cryptocurrency front. The\n8 only reason I was asking about Tingo was to point out that he\n9 switched courses so to speak mid-race to go with the company\n10 that better fit his business. That's the entire point.\n11 THE COURT: I think it's understood that a bank may be\n12 courting a number of clients or a number of clients may be\n13 looking to open accounts with the bank. I don't see why you\n14 need to specifically go into Tingo.\n15 MR. KAMARAJU: I'm not going into Tingo -- the only\n16 reason -- my point is not that there's a bunch of different\n17 suitors for the bank. My point is actually that he picked the\n18 suitor. He had the choice and he picked the suitor that best\n19 suited his interest.\n20 THE COURT: You don't need to make that point by\n21 comparing it to an entity that's not relevant to this case.\n22 You can ask him why did he pick.\n23 MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. But if his answer is why did you\n24 pick and he sells, well, Tingo, didn't have cryptocurrency\n25 capability and the Exchange does, then are we in the same\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 place?\n2 THE COURT: Then you can go into Tingo.\n3 (Continued on next page)\n4\n5\n6\n7\n8\n9\n10\n11\n12\n13\n14\n15\n16\n17\n18\n19\n20\n21\n22\n23\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 (In open court; jury present)\n2 BY MR. KAMARAJU:\n3 Q. So, Mr. Collins, we were talking about the fact that you\n4 were discussing a potential transaction with Tingo, right?\n5 A. Yes.\n6 Q. And in November of 2021, you traveled to London to meet\n7 with them?\n8 A. Yes.\n9 Q. At the same time you also met with Mr. Je, right?\n10 MR. FINKEL: Objection.\n11 THE COURT: Sustained.\n12 Q. In November of 2021 you traveled to London, right?\n13 A. Yes.\n14 Q. You met Mr. Je there, right?\n15 A. Yes.\n16 Q. You decided to engage in a commercial transaction with\n17 Mr. Je's companies, right?\n18 A. Yes.\n19 Q. Why did you pick Mr. Je's companies as opposed to any other\n20 potential suitors the bank might have had?\n21 A. In part my memory was they improved the price. I believed\n22 them to be liquid. I was unclear of Tingo's liquid. Tingo is\n23 still evolving relative to their public ambition, which was\n24 interest but pose some risk. I would say those are the major\n25 factors.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 Q. Now, just stick with your meeting with Mr. Je for a second\n2 please.\n3 So you testified on direct that he ran the Himalaya\n4 Exchange, right?\n5 A. Yes.\n6 Q. And you visited his office in London during this trip?\n7 A. It's a suburb of London, but yes.\n8 Q. Those offices occupied several floors of a building, right?\n9 A. I don't recall being on more than one floor.\n10 Q. You testified that there was an arbitration, correct?\n11 A. Where are we in the timeline?\n12 Q. Well, you testified on direct that the bank filed an\n13 arbitration against Hamilton, correct?\n14 A. Correct.\n15 Q. And you submitted a declaration in that arbitration,\n16 correct?\n17 A. I don't recall the documents that were part of it.\n18 Q. How many sworn statements do you recall submitting in\n19 connection with that arbitration?\n20 A. I have no idea.\n21 Q. Was it more than one?\n22 A. I don't know.\n23 Q. Did you testify in the arbitration?\n24 A. I believe I did.\n25 Q. Prior to testifying in the arbitration, did you submit any\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 sworn statements?\n2 A. I don't recall.\n3 Q. Just for the witness could we show him DX60551, please.\n4 Could we just scroll through it, please. If we could go to\n5 page 19, please.\n6 Do you recognize this?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. Is this the declaration you submitted in connection with\n9 the arbitration?\n10 A. I believe so.\n11 Q. Could we turn to page eight and highlight paragraph, just\n12 the last sentence of paragraph 46 and please just read it to\n13 yourself, sir.\n14 THE COURT: So it's now 11:30, so we will take our\n15 break. Members of the jury, remember that you're not allowed\n16 to discuss the case amongst yourselves or with anyone else.\n17 Don't permit anyone to discuss the case in your presence.\n18 Don't read, watch or listen to anything from any source about\n19 anything that touches upon the subject matter of this trial.\n20 Sir, you may step out. Don't discuss your testimony.\n21 THE LAW CLERK: Jury exiting.\n22 THE COURT: You may be seated. You may step out, sir.\n23 (Witness temporarily excused)\n24 (Continued on next page)\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - Cross\n1 (Jury not present)\n2 THE COURT: Is there anything before we resume at\n3 noon?\n4 MR. KAMARAJU: Nothing from the defense.\n5 MR. FINKEL: Just to avoid a sidebar when we resume.\n6 I think defense counsel is going to a proper place with the\n7 declaration, which is either to refresh his recollection or\n8 impeach. But to the extent the defense is seeking to introduce\n9 the 20-page declaration, we would object to that. And we can\n10 settle that not at a sidebar. It seems like we're going to a\n11 proper place. But to efficient, I just wanted to put that on\n12 the record.\n13 MR. KAMARAJU: I don't plan to try to admit the\n14 declaration. I was going to try to use it for, refresh his\n15 recollection. I guess possibly impeach him. To the extent it\n16 is used for impeachment, I think what I will do if it makes\n17 sense to your Honor is, simply ask to admit the specific\n18 statement that is reflected in the declaration and only publish\n19 that statement to the jury. And then we can have a redacted\n20 version down the road before it goes to the jury. That's what\n21 I would propose.\n22 THE COURT: That seems appropriate.\n23 MR. FINKEL: Thank you.\n24 MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you, your Honor.\n25 (Recess)\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 (Jury not present)\n2 THE COURT: Please have the witness resume the stand\n3 and please bring the jurors in.\n4 (Jury present)\n5 THE COURT: Please be seated.\n6 Remember that you're still under oath.\n7 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am.\n8 THE COURT: You may continue your cross-examination.\n9 MR. KAMARAJU: Thank you, your Honor.\n10 BY MR. KAMARAJU:\n11 Q. So I think when we left off, you were reviewing a document\n12 on your screen. I'm just going to direct you——to help to\n13 orient you, I'm happy to show you the first page again, but\n14 otherwise, I'm going to direct you to the last sentence of this\n15 paragraph.\n16 A. My memory is this is a document produced out of the\n17 arbitration.\n18 Q. Okay. And does this document help refresh your\n19 recollection as to whether Mr. Je's offices in London occupied\n20 several floors of an office building?\n21 A. Yes. I'm not sure I went to any other floors than the one\n22 I was on.\n23 Q. Okay. That wasn't my question; just simply that there were\n24 multiple floors of the business, right?\n25 A. According to this statement, yes.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 Q. And it was your impression that the businesses employed a\n2 lot of people, right?\n3 A. Mm-hmm.\n4 Q. More than a hundred?\n5 A. My memory is it was approximately 200.\n6 MR. KAMARAJU: We could take that down for now. Thank\n7 you.\n8 Q. Now I think before we looked at that, you were explaining\n9 some of the reasons why you chose to go with Hamilton and the\n10 Himalaya Exchange companies for the acquisition, right?\n11 THE COURT: Mr. Kamaraju, speak into the microphone.\n12 MR. KAMARAJU: Sorry, your Honor.\n13 Q. And one of those reasons was that you perceived a synergy\n14 between the bank and the exchange, right?\n15 A. Yes.\n16 Q. And you were telling your shareholders that, right?\n17 A. Yes.\n18 Q. Okay. Can you explain what you thought the synergy would\n19 be between the bank and the exchange.\n20 A. Well, we had always planned on having a crypto exchange, a\n21 digital asset exchange, as part of our offering, and had not\n22 launched it yet, so there was the potential for us to work\n23 closely with a digital asset exchange that happened to own a\n24 large portion of us.\n25 Q. And given your prior interest in starting an exchange, you\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 had some ideas as to how to improve the Himalaya Exchange,\n2 right?\n3 A. Yeah. We didn't get very far along that path.\n4 Q. Sure. But you made some initial suggestions, right?\n5 A. I don't remember what they were.\n6 Q. Okay. Well, let me ask you this: You previously invested\n7 in Bitcoin, right?\n8 A. Yes.\n9 Q. Okay. One of the ideas that you suggested to the exchange\n10 was that they should list Bitcoin too, right?\n11 MR. FINKEL: Objection. 401, 403.\n12 THE COURT: You may answer.\n13 A. I don't remember that specific suggestion, but it seems\n14 reasonable.\n15 Q. Okay. You were aware at the time that the Himalaya\n16 Exchange started that it only listed two tokens, right?\n17 A. Yes.\n18 Q. Okay. And that was H Coin and H Dollar, right?\n19 A. Yes.\n20 Q. And so it made sense to you that it should list more\n21 tokens.\n22 A. That's reasonable.\n23 Q. Now you discussed some of those suggestions with David\n24 Fallon, right?\n25 A. That's who I would have discussed it with, probably.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 Q. Who is Mr. Fallon?\n2 A. I would best describe Dave as the head trader of the firm.\n3 Q. Okay. And just so we're clear, when you say \"the firm,\"\n4 which firm are you referring to?\n5 A. Well, he was like many of their employees, who worked for\n6 many of the firms.\n7 Q. Okay. Did he work for Hamilton as one of those?\n8 A. Yes.\n9 Q. Okay. Did he work for the exchange as one of those?\n10 A. The Himalaya Exchange?\n11 Q. Yes, sir.\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. Okay. So he played a role at several of Mr. Je's\n14 companies, correct?\n15 A. Yes.\n16 Q. And I believe you testified to this, but Hamilton was a\n17 hedge fund owned by Mr. Je, correct?\n18 A. Owned is a difficult word, but controlled by Mr. Je would\n19 be better.\n20 Q. Okay. Fair enough. He controlled it, right?\n21 A. Yeah.\n22 Q. All right. And prior to reaching your deal with the\n23 exchange, you did due diligence on the exchange, right?\n24 A. Yes.\n25 Q. And the exchange did due diligence on the bank, right?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 A. I believe so.\n2 Q. And as part of that mutual due diligence process, you\n3 traveled to London, right?\n4 A. Yes.\n5 Q. You spent a few weeks there at Mr. Je's offices, correct?\n6 A. Yes.\n7 Q. On the bank side, were you the only person involved in that\n8 due diligence?\n9 A. No.\n10 Q. Okay. Who else was involved?\n11 A. My compliance team, my legal team, my CFO.\n12 Q. Okay. And on the exchange's side, who did you interact\n13 with when it came to that due diligence?\n14 A. Priya Patel, Georgette, David, there was a young gentleman\n15 that was sort of an analyst, whose name I can't recall. Oh,\n16 Harrison was his name.\n17 Q. Okay. So as part of that due diligence process, you didn't\n18 speak to Mr. Guo, right?\n19 A. No.\n20 Q. Okay. You didn't speak to Yvette Wang, right?\n21 A. No.\n22 Q. Now as part of that due diligence process, there was an\n23 independent valuation done, right?\n24 A. Yes.\n25 Q. And that was of what the bank would be worth with the\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 investment, correct?\n2 A. Correct.\n3 Q. Okay. I'm not going to ask you to get into particulars,\n4 but you provided the information for that valuation, right?\n5 About the bank, I mean.\n6 A. We provided the information that related to the bank for\n7 that valuation.\n8 Q. Yes. Sorry. My question was unclear. Specifically, just\n9 so the record is clear, the information that went into the\n10 independent valuation about the bank came from you, not\n11 Mr. Je's companies, correct?\n12 A. I believe so.\n13 Q. Okay. And you believed that this transaction could\n14 generate significant value for the bank, right?\n15 A. I did.\n16 Q. Okay. Both in the short term because of your cash flow\n17 crunch, right?\n18 A. Correct.\n19 Q. But then also on longer term, right?\n20 A. I'd like to go back to timelines, because you're conflating\n21 a bunch of information as though it all happened at once.\n22 The first investment that Mr. Je made occurred long\n23 before we were working on any analysis of the valuation. The\n24 valuation, as I recall, occurred, or began, around February or\n25 March, and I don't remember exactly when we received a report;\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 and the larger-investment dollar amounts, those discussions\n2 didn't happen until after he had made his first investment. So\n3 that's the answer to your question.\n4 Q. Okay. So just so we're clear, you had long-term plans for\n5 the bank, right?\n6 A. Define long-term.\n7 Q. Okay. You had plans to help try to grow the bank, right?\n8 A. Yes.\n9 Q. And they weren't going to happen the day after you signed\n10 the deal, right?\n11 A. No.\n12 Q. Okay. How long did you think it was going to take to grow\n13 the bank to the scale that you envisioned?\n14 A. Several years.\n15 Q. Okay. That's what I mean by long-term then, okay?\n16 A. Okay.\n17 Q. So over the course of a——withdrawn.\n18 So some of the money that Mr. Je was going to invest\n19 was intended to fuel long-term growth, right?\n20 A. Yes.\n21 Q. And you believed that that could greatly increase the value\n22 of the bank, correct?\n23 A. Yes.\n24 Q. In fact, you told Mr. Je at one point that you thought the\n25 bank could be worth a billion dollars, right?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 MR. FINKEL: Objection.\n2 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n3 A. I don't recall having that specific conversation, but there\n4 is a scenario where it could be worth that.\n5 Q. Okay. Now I think in the answer you gave a second ago, you\n6 alluded to this, but the total money that was going to be sent\n7 from Mr. Je's companies to your companies was broken up into\n8 chunks, right?\n9 A. Three parts.\n10 Q. Okay. So can you explain to us just what the three parts\n11 are.\n12 A. There was the initial investment, which required very\n13 little approval and no approval by the regulator. I believe\n14 that amount was roughly 2.7 to $3 million.\n15 There was what we would call the September 16th close,\n16 which was 49½ million additional, and it was contemplated that\n17 in or about six months later, we would fund another 50 million\n18 into the bank.\n19 THE COURT: What do you mean by \"we would fund\"?\n20 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Well, post September 16th,\n21 our executives of the bank would be working for William Je and\n22 the Hamilton enterprises, so that's what I meant by \"we\"\n23 collectively, but it would have been Hamilton's money.\n24 THE COURT: Go ahead.\n25 BY MR. KAMARAJU:\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 Q. And the latter of the two chunks that you talked about——so\n2 not the initial investment that didn't require OCIF approval\n3 but the two chunks after that——are we clear?\n4 A. Yeah.\n5 Q. Those were each to be made pursuant to separate agreements,\n6 right?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. But both sets of agreements were signed on September 16,\n9 2022, right?\n10 A. Which agreements specifically were signed?\n11 Q. Sorry. I mean the agreement related to the second chunk\n12 and the third chunk, right?\n13 A. I don't——I don't recall if we documented the third chunk on\n14 the September 16th closing.\n15 Q. Okay. So what agreements were signed? What agreements\n16 were signed as part of the September 16th closing?\n17 A. A number of agreements. Quite a few, actually.\n18 Q. Do you remember any?\n19 A. I couldn't enumerate them for you.\n20 Q. Okay. Those agreements were agreements that upon——well,\n21 withdrawn.\n22 Pursuant to the agreements signed on September 16,\n23 2022, you were expecting that Hamilton was going to wire you\n24 money, right?\n25 A. Yes.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 Q. So at least there was one agreement signed on September 16,\n2 2022, that obligated, in your mind, Hamilton to send you money,\n3 right?\n4 A. Yes.\n5 Q. Okay. And how much money did you believe Hamilton was\n6 supposed to send you?\n7 A. $49½ million.\n8 Q. Okay. So there was one agreement signed on September 16th\n9 of 2022 that you believed obligated Hamilton to send you\n10 approximately $49 million, correct?\n11 A. Yes.\n12 THE COURT: And when was the money due?\n13 THE WITNESS: It was actually due on the 16th.\n14 Q. Okay. And you testified on direct that you actually didn't\n15 get the money on the 16th, right?\n16 A. Correct.\n17 Q. And you weren't expecting it because it was late in the day\n18 on a Friday, right?\n19 A. It's reasonable to assume that the wire process might have\n20 been slower than hoped, but it could have——it could have\n21 cleared. It wasn't that late in the day.\n22 Q. Got it. But it didn't shock you.\n23 A. It did not shock us.\n24 Q. But you had received notification that Hamilton had\n25 actually tried to send the wire, right?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 THE INTERPRETER: Counsel, please slow down.\n2 Q. Sorry. You had received notification that Hamilton had\n3 tried to send the wire by that time, right?\n4 A. We received a copy of the wire instructions and receipt\n5 that was sent to Hamilton.\n6 Q. All right. So you testified on direct that the reason why\n7 the money never made it to Mercantile was because I think you\n8 said the U.S. Marshals seized it, right?\n9 A. Yes, sir.\n10 Q. Now after the money didn't show up on the 16th, you\n11 continued to communicate with Hamilton about the wire, right?\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. Because you still thought there was a chance for the deal\n14 to go through, right?\n15 A. We didn't know what was happening until almost Thursday of\n16 the following week, so about the 22nd or 23rd.\n17 Q. Okay. And you were following up with Hamilton because you\n18 wanted to see if there was a way for the deal to keep going,\n19 right?\n20 A. We wanted to receive the $49½ million.\n21 Q. Yeah. Pursuant to the investments that Hamilton was going\n22 to make, right?\n23 A. Correct.\n24 Q. And you testified that wire was supposed to come from the\n25 Silvergate Bank account, right?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 A. Yes.\n2 Q. And you thought that——well, let me ask you this.\n3 Withdrawn.\n4 There was a OCIF approval in place for the\n5 transaction, correct?\n6 A. Correct.\n7 Q. And did the OCIF approval set a deadline for when the\n8 transaction would have to happen?\n9 A. Yes.\n10 Q. When was that deadline?\n11 A. September 16th.\n12 Q. Okay. So did you believe that the deal was dead pursuant\n13 to the OCIF approval——\n14 A. No.\n15 Q. ——when the——okay. Just to be clear, so I can ask the\n16 question——\n17 A. Sorry.\n18 Q. That's okay.\n19 When the money didn't arrive on the 16th, in your\n20 view, did that kill the deal under the OCIF approval?\n21 A. No.\n22 Q. Okay. So the deal could have still gone through even\n23 though the OCIF deadline had been missed, right?\n24 A. Our initial view was, if it were nothing more than clerical\n25 error, that OCIF would have viewed money received on Monday or\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 Tuesday as sufficient, but that wasn't ultimately the cause of\n2 the delay.\n3 Q. Right. But in essence, if you missed the deadline by a few\n4 days due to an explainable error, you thought OCIF would let it\n5 slip, right?\n6 A. I wouldn't use that terminology, but——\n7 Q. Let it go through.\n8 A. They would understand.\n9 Q. Fair enough. But there was some urgency there then to get\n10 that situation resolved, right?\n11 A. Yeah.\n12 Q. That's why you reached out to the CEO of Silvergate, right?\n13 A. Correct.\n14 Q. You wanted to push this along, right?\n15 A. Yes.\n16 Q. Because the faster it got resolved, the better, right?\n17 A. Yes.\n18 Q. Because at some point——you never know——OCIF's patience may\n19 run out, right?\n20 A. I think that's a fair assessment.\n21 Q. Now Hamilton advised you that the Marshals had seized the\n22 funds, right?\n23 A. Yes.\n24 Q. Silvergate Bank wouldn't give you that information, right?\n25 A. Correct.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 Q. And you then had another discussion with Mr. Je about\n2 potential options to fund the transaction, right?\n3 A. I don't recall that.\n4 Q. You don't recall speaking to him on the phone about other\n5 options?\n6 A. No.\n7 Q. Okay. So the Silvergate reachout was the last option you\n8 thought they had; is that right?\n9 A. Once we learned that the funds had been seized by the U.S.\n10 government, we did not believe——we wanted to be in a position\n11 with our regulator to close the transaction because there has\n12 to be good reason for funds to be seized.\n13 Q. I'm sorry, sir. I don't understand the connection between\n14 we wanted to complete the transaction and there had to be a\n15 good reason for funds being seized. Can you explain that to\n16 us.\n17 A. Until——until we learned what had happened to the money,\n18 which was about I believe Thursday the 22nd, we did not know\n19 what had happened to the money. If it was simply a clerical\n20 issue, then I believe OCIF would have accepted the transaction\n21 and we would be moving on. But that's not what happened. It\n22 was seized by the U.S. government, and there's\n23 requirements——I'm not a lawyer, I can't describe what those\n24 requirements are, but there are requirements of having some\n25 legitimacy to seizing the money, and I believe it has to be\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 approved by a court. So from the perspective of BSA and our\n2 relationship with the regulator, it did not——it did not make\n3 sense to expect that the transaction would eventually close\n4 with him or anybody else involved in his side of the\n5 organizations——him being William Je.\n6 Q. Did you tell Mr. Je that?\n7 A. I'm not sure if I did.\n8 Q. Now you have personally spoken with the commissioner of\n9 OCIF before, right?\n10 A. Yes.\n11 Q. Did you call the commissioner up and say, hey, this money\n12 has been seized, we're calling the transaction off?\n13 A. That would be very unlike me to do that so I don't believe\n14 I did.\n15 Q. Okay. Did you direct your counsel to write a letter to\n16 OCIF saying, hey, the money's been seized, let's call the deal\n17 off?\n18 A. That is most likely how we communicated, or our counsel\n19 called on our behalf.\n20 Q. Okay. But you don't know one way or the other, right?\n21 A. I don't recall.\n22 Q. Now you testified during the arbitration proceeding,\n23 correct?\n24 A. Yes.\n25 Q. And that testimony was under oath, right?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 A. Yes.\n2 Q. Just like you're under oath today, right?\n3 A. Yes.\n4 Q. And you remember being asked during your testimony, \"Now,\n5 do you recall a WhatsApp conversation with William where he was\n6 trying to redeem his own cash, his own HDO into cash, to try to\n7 complete this transaction?\" and responding, \"I recall a\n8 conversation about that, yes\"?\n9 MR. FINKEL: Object. This mischaracterizes what\n10 defense counsel is trying to impeach on. That's not what the\n11 witness testified about at all.\n12 THE COURT: Sustained.\n13 Q. Okay. Did you have a WhatsApp conversation with William to\n14 try to discuss him redeeming his HDO to fund the transaction?\n15 A. We had many WhatsApp conversations during that period. It\n16 would not have been unreasonable for me to have one about that.\n17 I don't recall the specific details.\n18 Q. Okay. You don't recall.\n19 A. The details.\n20 MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. Then I'd like to pull up just\n21 for the witness——I only want you to read it to yourself, okay?\n22 And just for the record, I'm showing just the witness and the\n23 parties and the Court what's been marked with the Bates number\n24 Mercantile DOJ0078835.\n25 Q. Okay. Sir, could you just read lines 13 to 17, to\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 yourself, please.\n2 A. Can you take the blowup down. I'm sorry. Yeah. Thank\n3 you.\n4 Okay.\n5 Q. Does this refresh your recollection about whether you had a\n6 WhatsApp conversation with Mr. Je about his trying to redeem\n7 his HDO into cash to fund the transaction?\n8 A. It does.\n9 MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. Now could we take that down and\n10 could we show just the witness and the parties what's been\n11 marked for identification as DX 60556, please.\n12 Q. Take a look at that on your screen, sir. Do you have it\n13 there?\n14 A. Yeah, I do.\n15 Q. Okay. These are WhatsApp messages that you received from\n16 Mr. Je, correct?\n17 A. Yes.\n18 Q. And you received them on September 23, 2022, at 2:01 a.m.,\n19 correct?\n20 A. Yeah, the time stamps are unclear if they're U.S. times or\n21 Ireland times, which is where I was at the time.\n22 Q. Okay. But at least what's reflected on the document is\n23 2:01 a.m.?\n24 A. Yeah, that's what it says.\n25 Q. Correct. And the subject matter of Mr. Je's messages\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 involve redeeming money, right?\n2 A. Yes.\n3 MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. The defense will offer DX 60556,\n4 your Honor.\n5 THE COURT: Any objection?\n6 MR. FINKEL: No objection.\n7 THE COURT: It is admitted.\n8 (Defendant's Exhibit 60556 received in evidence)\n9 MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. Could we publish that, please.\n10 And could we actually bring up alongside it\n11 GX MER1205, which is in evidence.\n12 BY MR. KAMARAJU:\n13 Q. Okay. Do you have both documents on your screen?\n14 A. Yes. The one ending in 1205 is just a header.\n15 Q. I'll flip through it in a second, but——\n16 MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. So let's turn the page on 1205\n17 to the first page, please.\n18 Q. Okay. Do you see, at the very top of both documents, where\n19 it says, \"Messages in chronological order\"?\n20 A. Yes.\n21 Q. Okay. And on the left document, do you see what's in the\n22 parentheses there?\n23 A. \"Times are shown in GMT + 00.\"\n24 Q. Okay. And then on the right document, do you see the same\n25 message?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 A. Yes.\n2 Q. Okay. So you would agree with me, sir, that both these\n3 messages reflect the same time zone, correct?\n4 A. I just agree that's what the document says.\n5 Q. Okay. Fair enough. These two exhibits both reflect that,\n6 right?\n7 A. That's what the document says.\n8 Q. Okay. And so the document on the left, DX 60556, says that\n9 those messages were sent before the messages on the document on\n10 the right, right?\n11 A. Yes. Yes.\n12 Q. Okay. Now you testified on direct that Mr. Je did not tell\n13 you who this redemption was going to be for initially, correct?\n14 A. Yes.\n15 Q. Now on the left, in the message from 2:01 a.m., could you\n16 please read that to the jury.\n17 A. They're both from 2:01 a.m.\n18 Q. Let's start with the one at the top.\n19 A. Okay. \"Hi, as discussed, my company would like to redeem\n20 some money so that we could continue to support the operation\n21 of your bank and other entities.\"\n22 Q. And then what does he go on to say?\n23 A. \"Will send you the instruction in the morning.\"\n24 Q. Okay. And then in Government Exhibit 1205, he sends you\n25 the instruction, right?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 A. I can't see. Oh.\n2 MR. KAMARAJU: You can just put 1205 up on the screen.\n3 You can take the other one down.\n4 A. We talk about my meeting with Mahsud, we talk about FV\n5 Bank, he mentions he's doing a normal redemption of a client.\n6 Scroll down some more, please.\n7 I mention I'm on a call with my attorney. He\n8 mentioned documents for ACA.\n9 Do I need to go further?\n10 Q. Government Exhibit MER1205 reflects the only redemption\n11 request that Mr. Je sent you on September 23, 2022, correct?\n12 A. Correct.\n13 Q. Okay. And in the exhibit we were looking at, DX 60556,\n14 which had the WhatsApp chats from earlier this morning, he said\n15 he was going to send you instructions for a redemption,\n16 correct?\n17 A. Yes.\n18 Q. So the instructions were for this redemption that's\n19 referred to in Government Exhibit 1205, correct?\n20 A. I don't believe the two things are connected.\n21 Q. Okay. So did he send you instructions for any other\n22 redemption later that morning?\n23 A. To be clear, William and I never talked about him using\n24 funds to invest in our bank after this moment. He sent a\n25 message at 2:01 in the morning that I didn't respond to, and\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 then later, he sent in separately a redemption request via ACA\n2 Capital.\n3 Q. Okay. So my question was: Did he send you any other\n4 redemption requests on the morning of September 23, 2022?\n5 MR. FINKEL: Asked and answered.\n6 THE COURT: Sustained.\n7 MR. KAMARAJU: Then I'm going to move to strike his\n8 last answer as nonresponsive.\n9 THE COURT: Answer is stricken.\n10 Q. So let me try that question again. Did you——\n11 THE COURT: So I sustained the asked and answered\n12 objection.\n13 MR. KAMARAJU: I'm sorry, your Honor. I thought once\n14 it was stricken, I had the chance to go back. Fine.\n15 Q. How many redemption requests did Mr. Je send you on the\n16 morning of September 23, 2022?\n17 A. I believe one.\n18 Q. If we can scroll down to page 3 of this exhibit. do you see\n19 there's a message from Mr. Je at 8:29 p.m.?\n20 Sorry. Go back. It's the second message from him at\n21 8:29 p.m. Do you see that?\n22 A. \"Will call you on how to complete your banking deal as\n23 well.\"\n24 Q. Right. You only had one banking deal going on with Mr. Je\n25 at that time, right?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 A. Yes.\n2 Q. And that was the acquisition of Mercantile, right?\n3 A. Correct.\n4 Q. Now you didn't say to Mr. Je, during this Government\n5 Exhibit MER1205, hey, William, we can't do a redemption request\n6 because the money's been frozen, right?\n7 A. I don't recall making that statement.\n8 Q. You didn't make any similar statement either, right?\n9 A. I don't recall.\n10 Q. You at no point communicated to him that you had a concern\n11 about the seizure impacting this redemption request, correct?\n12 A. Once I learned of the seizure, I was in listening mode.\n13 Q. Okay. So you didn't convey it to him, right?\n14 A. I don't recall making a statement like that.\n15 Q. Now you said you were in listening mode. You were in\n16 listening mode because you anticipated commencing an\n17 arbitration, correct?\n18 A. We were just simply trying to sort out what was happening.\n19 Q. Okay. But you did commence an arbitration, correct?\n20 A. We did.\n21 Q. And you commenced that arbitration after learning that the\n22 Department of Justice had seized the money, right?\n23 A. Yes.\n24 Q. And in fact, you commenced that arbitration pretty quickly\n25 after learning that fact, right?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 A. Yes.\n2 Q. Within days. Right?\n3 A. I don't know the specific number, but it was quickly.\n4 Q. And how about September 30, 2022, is that when you started\n5 the arbitration?\n6 A. That sounds about right.\n7 Q. Now the DOJ had seized the money, right?\n8 A. The wire.\n9 Q. Had seized the wire. You were suing for those funds,\n10 right?\n11 A. Correct.\n12 Q. That's what you were claiming as damages, right?\n13 A. Correct.\n14 Q. How was Hamilton going to pay you that money if the DOJ had\n15 seized it?\n16 MR. FINKEL: Objection.\n17 THE COURT: Sustained.\n18 Q. Okay. What was your understanding of how Hamilton was\n19 going to do it?\n20 MR. FINKEL: Objection.\n21 THE COURT: Sustained.\n22 Q. Okay. Why did you file an arbitration seeking the wire\n23 money knowing that DOJ had seized it?\n24 MR. FINKEL: Objection.\n25 THE COURT: Sustained. He did not testify that he was\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 seeking the wire money.\n2 MR. KAMARAJU: He did, your Honor.\n3 THE COURT: No.\n4 Q. Okay. Let me try it this way: Why did you file an\n5 arbitration asserting damages based on Hamilton's failure to\n6 send the wire to you?\n7 A. Why did we do that?\n8 Q. Mm-hmm.\n9 A. Because I have a responsibility to my shareholders to\n10 protect the asset of the bank.\n11 Q. Did you believe that Hamilton had other money that it could\n12 use to pay you?\n13 MR. FINKEL: Objection.\n14 THE COURT: You may answer.\n15 A. I don't think that's important to the analysis, given the\n16 fact that we had an obligation to protect our legal interest.\n17 Q. So you spent money on the arbitration, correct?\n18 A. I think that's confidential and privileged.\n19 Q. You paid lawyers, right, sir?\n20 A. Yes, so that's privileged, I believe.\n21 Q. Well, the judge is right there. I'm not asking you for any\n22 communications that you've had. I'm simply saying you paid\n23 lawyers.\n24 THE COURT: So what you and your lawyer talked about,\n25 that's what's privileged, but the fact of making a payment is\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 not privileged.\n2 THE WITNESS: I did not make a payment.\n3 Q. I'm sorry. I just want to make sure. You did not pay?\n4 A. We did not. We took a contingency arrangement. There\n5 might be some minor out-of-pocket fees that we paid for.\n6 Q. Okay. Now prior to filing the arbitration, you had\n7 visibility into the bank accounts that Hamilton had at\n8 Mercantile, right?\n9 A. Yes.\n10 Q. Okay. There was money in those accounts, right?\n11 A. Yes.\n12 Q. Millions of dollars, right?\n13 A. Yes.\n14 Q. And there were Himalaya Exchange accounts there too, right?\n15 A. Yes.\n16 Q. And there were millions of dollars in those?\n17 A. Yes.\n18 Q. Okay. Did you ever ask Mr. Je to use any of that money\n19 that was at Mercantile Bank to fund the transaction?\n20 A. It became clear to us at that point in time, once we\n21 learned of the government seizure, that the regulator would not\n22 support a closing transaction, nor do I think we could suggest\n23 that it would pass BSA standards.\n24 Q. What about before you learned about the seizure?\n25 A. What about——what's the question about \"before you learned\"?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 Q. Before you learned about the seizure, did you go to Mr. Je\n2 and say, why don't you just use the money that's already at the\n3 bank?\n4 A. No.\n5 Q. Now as of September 16, 2022, it's fair to say that\n6 Mercantile had more than $300 million on deposit, right?\n7 A. We had a lot. I don't remember the exact number.\n8 Q. Okay. Hundreds of millions?\n9 A. Yes.\n10 Q. Okay. And most of that money came from either the Himalaya\n11 Exchange or Hamilton, right?\n12 A. I believe so.\n13 Q. North of 80 percent, right?\n14 A. I——it was substantial.\n15 Q. Okay. Also hundreds of millions of dollars, right?\n16 A. Yes.\n17 Q. And of those hundreds of millions of dollars, a significant\n18 portion was meant for Himalaya Exchange customer redemptions,\n19 right?\n20 MR. FINKEL: Objection, foundation.\n21 THE COURT: You may answer.\n22 A. They communicated with our compliance department about the\n23 nature of the funds. I don't believe they communicated to us\n24 about what their future purpose would be.\n25 Q. Okay. When we looked at the redemption request from\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 Mr. Je——\n2 A. Yes.\n3 Q. ——that was to redeem money from Mercantile——\n4 A. No.\n5 Q. Well, Mercantile was being asked to send a wire, correct?\n6 A. Yes, but the redemption was between ACA Capital and\n7 Hamilton Exchange [sic].\n8 Q. Understood. But the end product of that redemption, from\n9 Mercantile's perspective, was to wire out money, right?\n10 A. We received instructions to wire money that was related to\n11 the redemption between ACA Capital and the Hamilton\n12 Exchange——I'm sorry——the Himalaya Exchange.\n13 Q. Okay. And you didn't honor that redemption request, right?\n14 A. We did not.\n15 Q. But if you had honored it——\n16 A. Well, I object to calling it a redemption. From our\n17 perspective, it's not a redemption request, it's simply a wire\n18 request. I did not honor the wire request.\n19 Q. Okay. So let's use that term.\n20 A. Okay.\n21 Q. Wire request. So let's just make sure we're clear. There\n22 was a redemption event that happened, in your mind, within the\n23 exchange, right?\n24 A. Mm-hmm. Yes.\n25 Q. Okay. And then as a product of that request, then your\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 bank would have wired money out of a specific account at the\n2 bank, right?\n3 A. Correct.\n4 Q. And there was an account designated at the bank for that\n5 purpose, right?\n6 A. Correct.\n7 Q. And that bank was not——withdrawn.\n8 That account was not limited to only redemption\n9 requests related to Mr. Je or his companies, right?\n10 A. I don't know what you mean by limited. The account was in\n11 the name of the Himalaya Exchange, the funds redeemed owned by\n12 the Himalaya Exchange. They had exclusive authority over the\n13 funds, so I don't know what you mean by designation or——it's\n14 pretty simple.\n15 Q. I just mean if somebody other than——if another Himalaya\n16 Exchange customer other than Mr. Je had wanted to do a\n17 redemption and then receive a wire, they would have come from\n18 that same account.\n19 MR. FINKEL: Calls for speculation.\n20 THE COURT: Sustained.\n21 Q. Okay. Prior to Mr. Je making that request, had Mercantile\n22 Bank wired out any money based on a Himalaya Exchange\n23 redemption request?\n24 A. I don't recall.\n25 Q. Okay. Was that the first one you had ever come in contact\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 with?\n2 A. Me personally? Yes.\n3 Q. Okay. Now you testified that FV Bank is another bank in\n4 Puerto Rico, right?\n5 A. Yes.\n6 Q. And you learned that the Department of Justice had also\n7 seized exchange money that was held at FV Bank, correct?\n8 A. That was our understanding, based on rumor.\n9 Q. I'm sorry. That was based on rumor?\n10 A. Yes.\n11 Q. Okay. Well, Mr. Je also told you that, right?\n12 A. Later, yes.\n13 Q. Well, as of September 23, 2022, you guys both knew about\n14 that fact, right?\n15 A. I don't recall the exact day he told us, but they did\n16 communicate that.\n17 MR. KAMARAJU: Okay. Could we pull up GX MER1205,\n18 please.\n19 THE INTERPRETER: Your Honor, can you please ask both\n20 parties to slow down. Thank you.\n21 THE COURT: All right. Please slow down.\n22 MR. KAMARAJU: I will slow down, your Honor. I\n23 apologize.\n24 BY MR. KAMARAJU:\n25 Q. Okay. Could you read the third message down.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 A. \"He only knows FV Bank is frozen. He did not know the fund\n2 nor the transaction issues.\"\n3 Q. Okay. So that's Mr. Je talking to you, right?\n4 A. Yes, on September 23rd.\n5 Q. Okay. And you understood what he meant when he said \"He\n6 only knows FV Bank is frozen,\" right?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. That's the seizure, the DOJ seizure at FV Bank, right?\n9 A. Well, it says frozen, so it might have been a freeze. It\n10 was unclear.\n11 THE COURT: Who is \"he\" referring to?\n12 THE WITNESS: Mahsud, who's the CFO. If you look up\n13 earlier, I'm saying I'm speaking to Mahsud at 11, and I asked\n14 if he was aware of what's happening, and he said, \"He only\n15 knows FV Bank is frozen.\"\n16 Q. Now at the time of this message, the Department of Justice\n17 had not seized any money yet at Mercantile Bank, right?\n18 A. No.\n19 Q. That wouldn't happen until much later, right?\n20 A. Correct.\n21 Q. But based on the FV Bank seizure, you had concerns that the\n22 DOJ would come and seize money at Mercantile, right?\n23 A. I'm sorry. Can you ask the question again.\n24 Q. Sure.\n25 MR. KAMARAJU: I'm sorry, but would you mind reading\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 it back, please.\n2 THE COURT: Go ahead.\n3 (Record read)\n4 A. We just didn't know. If you say I have concerns, we had\n5 concerns about many things.\n6 Q. That was one of them.\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. And so you approached the exchange about taking a\n9 compliance fee, right?\n10 A. We didn't approach them. We notified them.\n11 Q. Okay. You told them——\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. ——we're going to take a compliance fee?\n14 A. Legal and compliance.\n15 Q. Okay. And the legal and compliance fee was going to be\n16 10 percent of what was in the Himalaya and Hamilton accounts at\n17 your bank, right?\n18 A. That sounds about right.\n19 Q. Okay. And the exchange objected, right?\n20 A. Yes.\n21 Q. You took the money anyway, right?\n22 A. Yes.\n23 Q. And it was about roughly $28 million, correct?\n24 A. That sounds about right.\n25 Q. And you pulled that money out of the customer bank\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 accounts, right?\n2 A. No.\n3 Q. You put it into its own restricted account, right?\n4 A. I didn't pull the money out of the customer bank accounts.\n5 Q. Okay. So the $28 million that we've been talking about, it\n6 stayed in the same Hamilton accounts?\n7 A. Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood what you were saying.\n8 Q. Okay. Sorry. It might have been a confusing question. Go\n9 ahead.\n10 A. We took the money out of the Himalaya- and Hamilton-related\n11 accounts, and put it aside.\n12 Q. Okay. Into its own account, right?\n13 A. I don't recall the specific structure, but that sounds\n14 right.\n15 Q. But an account that wasn't in Hamilton or Himalaya\n16 Exchange's name, right?\n17 A. Correct. Correct.\n18 Q. And as a result——withdrawn.\n19 And you did that because you were worried that the\n20 Department of Justice was going to seize the Hamilton and\n21 exchange accounts at Mercantile and thus you wouldn't be able\n22 to take that $28 million, correct?\n23 A. I have legal opinions from my internal and external counsel\n24 that——\n25 Q. No, no. I just want to——\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 A. Let me answer the question.\n2 Q. No, no. I just want to make sure you didn't disclose any\n3 of the actual——\n4 A. That's why I'm flagging it. Much of that was handled by\n5 them, so it's hard for me to agree with the characterization of\n6 your words, but that is not unreasonable.\n7 Q. Okay. And like I said, not asking for your communications\n8 with counsel, just for what's in your head. That made sense to\n9 you, right?\n10 A. That's a reasonable approach.\n11 Q. And that's the approach you took.\n12 A. I believe that's the approach we——we took.\n13 Q. Now the Department of Justice came and asked for that money\n14 back, right?\n15 A. Yes.\n16 Q. And you gave them some of that money back, right?\n17 A. Yes.\n18 Q. But not all of it, right, sir?\n19 A. No.\n20 Q. Mercantile kept around $5 million, right?\n21 A. I don't remember the precise number, but that's\n22 approximately right.\n23 Q. Okay. And I'm not holding you to a precise dollar figure,\n24 but it's in that area, right?\n25 A. Yup.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 Q. And Mercantile spent that money, right?\n2 A. We posted it with attorneys to——\n3 Q. I'm sorry. I didn't understand.\n4 A. We posted it with attorneys, that we felt like we needed\n5 representation because of all the noise that's going around.\n6 Q. Okay. So you used it to hire lawyers, right?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. And you were using it to pay the bank's legal fees, right?\n9 A. Yes.\n10 Q. And that was money that had come from Himalaya Exchange\n11 customers, right?\n12 A. No.\n13 Q. So it was not your understanding that the ultimate source\n14 of that money was Himalaya Exchange customers, sir; that's your\n15 testimony?\n16 MR. FINKEL: Asked and answered.\n17 THE COURT: Sustained.\n18 Q. Now you originally took your legal and compliance fee\n19 because you thought you had certain obligations to the\n20 government, right?\n21 A. And we needed to defend ourselves because we didn't know\n22 what was happening.\n23 Q. Right. And both your defense obligations and your\n24 obligations to the government required you to respond to\n25 requests for information, right?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 A. Yes.\n2 Q. And you wanted to be able to pay lawyers to do that, right?\n3 A. Yes.\n4 Q. But you didn't want to spend your own money on that, right?\n5 A. I'm not following you.\n6 Q. Well, you didn't want to spend money that the bank already\n7 had, right?\n8 A. We didn't believe we contractually needed to. We could\n9 spend the deduction that we took out of the account because\n10 that's what the contract says.\n11 Q. Okay. And that contract that you're referring to says that\n12 you can take money out for compliance and legal costs, right?\n13 A. Yes.\n14 Q. But that's not all you used the money for, is it, sir?\n15 A. I'm not sure.\n16 Q. Well, didn't you use some of the money to buy an F1\n17 sponsorship?\n18 A. No.\n19 Q. You don't recall testifying to that during arbitration?\n20 A. I don't believe we used the money for legal and compliance\n21 to buy an F1 sponsorship. We did buy an F1 Academy\n22 sponsorship, which was much cheaper than an F1 sponsorship.\n23 That was the first women's league for F1 drivers.\n24 Q. Okay. Did the bank have its own money that it could spend\n25 on that academy sponsorship?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Cross\n1 A. Yes.\n2 Q. So the bank had the money to spend on the academy\n3 sponsorship, but not on its own legal bills, right?\n4 MR. FINKEL: Objection.\n5 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n6 A. We were just operating according to our contractual rights.\n7 Q. Did your contractual rights allow you to exercise control\n8 over fraud proceeds?\n9 A. That's a question that really an attorney needs to answer.\n10 Q. I'm just asking your understanding, sir.\n11 A. I don't have an understanding of it.\n12 Q. So that never occurred to you.\n13 A. I think we had it reviewed by counsel and they responded.\n14 Q. Okay. So even though you moved money out of those accounts\n15 and then spent it on corporate expenses, the Department of\n16 Justice has never suggested that they were going to charge you\n17 or anybody at Mercantile with a crime, right?\n18 A. They have never said that they would not charge me with a\n19 crime.\n20 Q. I asked the other question, sir.\n21 A. What was the other question?\n22 Q. Have they ever said that they're going to?\n23 A. No.\n24 Q. These folks here have never said that to you, right?\n25 A. No.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Redirect\n1 Q. And you're here, you don't have any kind of agreement with\n2 them with respect to that, right?\n3 A. Be more specific. I don't know what you mean.\n4 Q. Have you ever heard of a nonprosecution agreement?\n5 A. Not really. This is my first criminal trial.\n6 Q. Okay. So it's fair to say you don't have one with them,\n7 right?\n8 A. I do not have a nonprosecution agreement.\n9 MR. KAMARAJU: No further questions at this time, your\n10 Honor.\n11 THE COURT: Redirect?\n12 REDIRECT EXAMINATION\n13 BY MR. FINKEL:\n14 Q. Mr. Collins, do you know what representations Miles Guo\n15 made to customers of the Himalaya Exchange concerning\n16 whether——well, do you know what representations Miles Guo made\n17 to the customers of the Himalaya Exchange?\n18 A. Other than some of the marketing material I've seen, which\n19 I'm not sure I'd style as representations, I don't really have\n20 knowledge.\n21 Q. Do you speak Mandarin?\n22 A. No.\n23 Q. Do you know what the H Coin lockup is?\n24 A. No.\n25 Q. Do you know what AIAI is?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Redirect\n1 A. No.\n2 Q. What about A10; do you know what that is?\n3 A. A10. I feel like that came across in something I looked\n4 at, but I really don't know what it is.\n5 MR. FINKEL: If we can pull up MER8, please.\n6 Q. You were asked some questions during cross-examination\n7 about the redemption or wire transfer that William Je sought to\n8 get out of Mercantile Bank; is that correct, sir?\n9 A. Yes.\n10 Q. Now can you tell us, please, where William Je wanted to\n11 send that redemption, that wire.\n12 A. To a bank called First Abu Dhabi Bank based in the UAE.\n13 Q. Did he suggest sending it to Silvergate Bank?\n14 A. No.\n15 Q. Did he suggest sending it to Mercantile Bank?\n16 A. No.\n17 Q. You were asked on cross about whether you thought there was\n18 a difference between the messages that you received at 2 a.m.\n19 and the sort of rest of the messages with respect to a\n20 different transaction. Do you believe there's a difference\n21 between the two?\n22 A. Very much so.\n23 Q. Can you explain why.\n24 A. As I mentioned, I didn't respond to the prior messages. We\n25 never had a conversation about how they could continue the\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Redirect\n1 transaction with the bank because we made it——it was clear to\n2 us that the regulator wouldn't approve the transaction, nor did\n3 I feel comfortable proceeding with a partner that appeared to\n4 be the target of serious criminal prosecutions.\n5 Q. You were asked some questions about Mercantile's due\n6 diligence——is that correct——on cross-examination?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. And I believe you said that part of the due diligence\n9 process is relying on attestations by the client?\n10 A. Yes.\n11 Q. What do you mean by that?\n12 A. We——we ask all clients to make certain attestations for\n13 some——some of it's simple, like who are the UBOs of the\n14 business, and we rely on their statements in part to understand\n15 the reality.\n16 Q. So the passing of due diligence by Himalaya Exchange relied\n17 on statements made by employees of the Himalaya Exchange; is\n18 that fair to say?\n19 A. Very much so.\n20 Q. And the passing of due diligence by G/CLUBS relied on\n21 statements made by employees of G/CLUBS; is that fair to say?\n22 A. Very much so.\n23 Q. And same for G Fashion; is that true as well?\n24 A. Yes.\n25 Q. And you were asked some questions about what evidence you\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Redirect\n1 may have seen regarding the Himalaya Exchange and the UBO of\n2 that. Do you remember those questions?\n3 A. Vaguely.\n4 Q. Have you attended this trial?\n5 A. No.\n6 Q. Do you know who the other witnesses are at this trial?\n7 A. No.\n8 Q. Do you know what the testimony has been or the exhibits\n9 that have been introduced?\n10 A. No.\n11 Q. Is part of the due diligence process at Mercantile Bank\n12 obtaining recordings of meetings between Miles Guo, Yvette\n13 Wang, and William Je about use of funds?\n14 MR. KAMARAJU: Object to the form.\n15 A. No.\n16 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n17 A. No.\n18 Q. Have you heard recordings of William Je, Miles Guo, and\n19 Yvette Wang discussing use of G/CLUBS funds?\n20 A. No.\n21 MR. KAMARAJU: Same objection.\n22 THE COURT: Overruled.\n23 Q. Fair to say those recordings are not part of your due\n24 diligence process at Mercantile?\n25 A. I'm not sure we knew they existed.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 Q. Do you know who Haitham Khaled is?\n2 A. No.\n3 Q. The term \"like-minded individuals,\" was that your term or\n4 Ana Izquierdo's term?\n5 A. Honestly, I don't have a strong recollection of who uttered\n6 that into existence.\n7 MR. FINKEL: One moment, please.\n8 Q. Did you ever buy HCN?\n9 A. No.\n10 Q. Did you ever buy HDO?\n11 A. No.\n12 MR. FINKEL: Nothing further.\n13 THE COURT: Recross?\n14 MR. KAMARAJU: No, thank you, your Honor.\n15 THE COURT: You may step out.\n16 (Witness excused)\n17 THE COURT: And the prosecution may call its next\n18 witness.\n19 MS. MURRAY: Thank you, your Honor. The government\n20 calls Christine Frosini.\n21 THE LAW CLERK: Please raise your right hand.\n22 (Witness sworn)\n23 THE LAW CLERK: Please be seated.\n24 THE COURT: Please state your name and spell it.\n25 THE WITNESS: Christine Frosini. C-H-R-I-S-T-I-N-E,\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 Frosini, F-R-O-S-I-N-I.\n2 THE COURT: You may inquire.\n3 CHRISTINE FROSINI,\n4 called as a witness by the Government,\n5 having been duly sworn, testified as follows:\n6 DIRECT EXAMINATION\n7 BY MS. MURRAY:\n8 Q. Good afternoon, Ms. Frosini.\n9 A. Good afternoon.\n10 Q. What kind of work do you do?\n11 A. I'm a broker associate.\n12 Q. If I could ask you to speak into the microphone. If you\n13 could just pull it towards you.\n14 A. I'm a broker associate for Prominent Properties Sotheby's.\n15 Q. And what is Prominent Properties Sotheby's?\n16 A. Real estate firm.\n17 Q. How long have you been a realtor?\n18 A. For 22 years.\n19 Q. What sort of properties do you buy or sell?\n20 A. Mostly residential.\n21 Q. What types of clients do you have?\n22 A. All sorts. I have first-time buyers, repeat buyers, all\n23 different levels.\n24 Q. What geographic area do you work in?\n25 A. Bergen County.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 Q. And in what state is that?\n2 A. New Jersey.\n3 Q. Were you involved with the purchase of the property located\n4 at 675 Ramapo Valley Drive in Mahwah, New Jersey?\n5 A. Yes.\n6 Q. What is the name by which you know that property?\n7 A. Crocker Mansion.\n8 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could please pull up\n9 for the witness Government Exhibit 134.\n10 Q. Ms. Frosini, do you recognize Government Exhibit 134?\n11 A. Yes.\n12 Q. What is it?\n13 A. Crocker Mansion in Mahwah, New Jersey.\n14 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers\n15 Government Exhibit 134.\n16 MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may I just ask one question.\n17 THE COURT: Yes.\n18 MS. SHROFF: Thank you.\n19 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION\n20 BY MS. SHROFF:\n21 Q. You didn't take the photograph, right, Ms. Frosini?\n22 THE WITNESS: No.\n23 MS. SHROFF: Thank you very much. No objection, your\n24 Honor.\n25 THE COURT: It is admitted.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 (Government's Exhibit 134 received in evidence)\n2 MS. MURRAY: If we could publish that, please.\n3 BY MS. MURRAY:\n4 Q. And if you could describe for the jury, please,\n5 Ms. Frosini, what part of the Crocker Mansion are we looking at\n6 at the front of this picture?\n7 A. This is the front of the estate.\n8 Q. And so if you could describe where, if at all, one would\n9 approach the mansion, based on this photo.\n10 A. This is the front of the estate where you have a circular\n11 drive.\n12 MS. MURRAY: And Ms. Loftus, we can take that down.\n13 If we could now put up, for the witness only, please,\n14 Government Exhibits 145 and 146.\n15 Q. Starting on the left with 145, Ms. Frosini, do you\n16 recognize what's depicted in Government Exhibit 145?\n17 A. Yes, that's the——that's the entryway from Ramapo Valley\n18 Road to the estate.\n19 Q. And looking on the right at Government Exhibit 146, do you\n20 recognize what's depicted in that exhibit?\n21 A. You know, the house is kind of small there, but it looks\n22 like the property.\n23 Q. Which property?\n24 A. The property of Crocker Mansion.\n25 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 Government Exhibits 145 and 146.\n2 MS. SHROFF: May I just, your Honor?\n3 THE COURT: You may.\n4 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION\n5 BY MS. SHROFF:\n6 Q. Ms. Frosini, you didn't take these photographs either,\n7 correct?\n8 A. No.\n9 MS. SHROFF: I have no objection.\n10 THE COURT: They are admitted.\n11 (Government's Exhibits 145 and 146 received in\n12 evidence)\n13 MS. MURRAY: If we could please publish, Ms. Loftus.\n14 And now that the jury can see it, Ms. Loftus, on the\n15 left, on Government Exhibit 145, could you please zoom in on\n16 the plaque that is shown.\n17 Q. And Ms. Frosini, could you please read what's on that\n18 plaque.\n19 A. Crocker Mansion, 675 Ramapo Valley Road.\n20 MS. MURRAY: Thank you, Ms. Loftus. We can take that\n21 down.\n22 Q. Ms. Frosini, what was your role, if any, in the purchase of\n23 the Crocker Mansion?\n24 A. I represented the buyer.\n25 Q. And again, if you could just pull the microphone straight\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 in front of you.\n2 A. I'm sorry.\n3 Q. Acoustics are tricky here. Thank you.\n4 Who was the buyer that you represented?\n5 A. The buyer was Taurus Fund.\n6 Q. Approximately when did your involvement with this real\n7 estate purchase begin?\n8 A. November 27, 28 of 2021.\n9 Q. And who was your primary contact for the buyer, the Taurus\n10 Fund?\n11 A. An attorney called Aaron Mitchell.\n12 Q. Did you know Aaron Mitchell before this real estate deal\n13 had started?\n14 A. No. Actually, the call came in from Sotheby's\n15 International, and they had answered that incorrectly.\n16 Q. And when you say the call came in, can you describe what\n17 you mean by that.\n18 A. Yes, the——Aaron Mitchell contacted Philip White, who's the\n19 CEO of Sotheby's International Real Estate, and Philip White\n20 contacted the co-owner of Prominent Properties Sotheby's to\n21 tell him that he had a client that wanted to see a couple of\n22 homes, and then I was called in on it to help the buyer.\n23 Q. Did there come a time when you had a discussion with Aaron\n24 Mitchell regarding his interest in purchasing a property?\n25 A. He contacted——yes, they contacted me to tell me the\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 properties they were interested in seeing.\n2 Q. And what properties, if any, did you discuss with Mitchell\n3 during that initial conversation?\n4 A. The two properties that they wanted to see, which was\n5 Crocker Mansion and another property in Hyde Park, New York.\n6 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could please put up and\n7 publish Government Exhibit 128.\n8 Q. Ms. Frosini, do you recognize the individual depicted in\n9 Government Exhibit 128?\n10 A. It looks like Aaron Mitchell.\n11 MS. MURRAY: Thank you, Ms. Loftus. We can take that\n12 down.\n13 Q. Ms. Frosini, in order to show those two properties you\n14 mentioned, what, if anything, did you need from Aaron Mitchell?\n15 A. I needed proof of funds. When you show properties at that\n16 level, the sellers require proof of funds from the buyer.\n17 Q. And what do you mean by proof of funds?\n18 A. Proof of funds basically is that the buyer can afford the\n19 property and you either——it either comes in the format of a\n20 letter from the buyer's attorney or some people provide bank\n21 accounts and they blank out the bank numbers.\n22 Q. And did Aaron Mitchell provide you with proof of funds?\n23 A. Yes.\n24 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could please show the\n25 witness what's marked as Government Exhibit 1100.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 If we could just flip through a few of the pages,\n2 please.\n3 Q. Ms. Frosini, what is this Government Exhibit, Government\n4 Exhibit 1100?\n5 A. What——\n6 Q. What information is contained in this exhibit?\n7 A. Right here is a copy of the listing for Crocker Mansion.\n8 Q. And flipping through the remaining pages of this Government\n9 Exhibit, is it fair to say that this is your file from the deal\n10 for the Crocker Mansion?\n11 A. Yes, the executed contract. That's the executed contract\n12 where both parties signed.\n13 THE COURT: Ms. Frosini, if you would draw the\n14 microphone close to your mouth so that we can hear you.\n15 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Mm-hmm.\n16 THE COURT: You can move closer and move the chair\n17 closer.\n18 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers\n19 Government Exhibit 1100.\n20 THE COURT: Any objection?\n21 MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor.\n22 THE COURT: It is admitted.\n23 (Government's Exhibit 1100 received in evidence)\n24 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could please publish\n25 Government Exhibit 1100 at page 63.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 And we can zoom in on the top portion.\n2 BY MS. MURRAY:\n3 Q. Ms. Frosini, what is this?\n4 A. Yes. That's the proof of funds.\n5 Q. And what is the date on this letter?\n6 A. November 25, 2021.\n7 Q. Who sent this letter?\n8 A. Aaron Mitchell.\n9 Q. Looking at the top left, what is the name that's associated\n10 with the letterhead on this letter that Aaron Mitchell sent?\n11 A. Lawall & Mitchell, LLC.\n12 Q. And what does the subject line or the regarding line read\n13 for this letter?\n14 A. Family Trust Real Estate Purchase.\n15 Q. If I could ask you now to read the main paragraph of this\n16 letter, starting with \"This firm.\"\n17 A. This firm represents Mei Guo and her Family Trust and has\n18 done so for many years. I am aware of Ms. Guo's financial\n19 wherewithal and can confirm that she is in funds to purchase\n20 real estate in cash in an amount she determines, up to the full\n21 asking price of the property she currently wishes to view and,\n22 further, that such funds shall be held in escrow by this firm\n23 to complete any transaction entered into by Ms. Guo or her\n24 designated entity. I trust this is sufficient, but should you\n25 have any questions, do not hesitate to contact me.\"\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 Q. Ms. Frosini, at this time did you know who Mei Guo was?\n2 A. No.\n3 Q. Today, do you know who Mei Guo is?\n4 A. I've met her.\n5 Q. Who is she?\n6 A. The daughter.\n7 Q. The daughter of whom?\n8 A. Of Mr. and Mrs. Guo.\n9 Q. What, if anything, did you understand Mei Guo's involvement\n10 to be with this real estate purchase?\n11 A. To purchase the home.\n12 Q. How, if at all, was Mei Guo involved in the purchase?\n13 A. Excuse me?\n14 Q. How, if at all, was Mei Guo, the daughter, involved in the\n15 purchase?\n16 MS. SHROFF: Asked and answered, your Honor.\n17 THE WITNESS: I met her.\n18 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n19 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry?\n20 THE COURT: Go ahead.\n21 A. I met Ms. Guo once or twice at the house, Crocker Mansion.\n22 Q. And this letter refers to the property she currently wishes\n23 to view. What property, if any, is that referring to?\n24 A. So this was used to view Hyde Park and Crocker Mansion.\n25 Q. And did there come a time when you showed those two\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 properties to members of the Guo family?\n2 A. Yes.\n3 Q. Which property did you show first?\n4 A. Hyde Park.\n5 MS. MURRAY: We can take that down, Ms. Loftus, for\n6 the moment.\n7 Q. Can you please describe the Hyde Park property for the\n8 jury.\n9 A. Hyde Park was a unique property that was located on the\n10 Hudson River, very modern style.\n11 Q. What was the approximate size of that property?\n12 A. You know what, I don't recall the square footage of that\n13 home.\n14 Q. Would you describe it as a large home?\n15 A. Not really. I mean, to some it may be large, but, you\n16 know, it wasn't like——it wasn't huge.\n17 Q. And who, if anyone, went to the showing at the Hyde Park\n18 property?\n19 A. Mr. and Mrs. Guo and then there were the driver——I drove\n20 myself and met them there, but they had a driver and a couple\n21 of security personnel.\n22 Q. Do you know Mr. Guo's first name?\n23 A. Miles.\n24 Q. And his wife, do you know her name?\n25 A. No.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 Q. Did Mei Guo attend that showing of the Hyde Park property?\n2 A. She couldn't, and Aaron Mitchell said she couldn't go——\n3 MS. SHROFF: Objection to the hearsay, your Honor.\n4 THE COURT: Don't say what someone else said. Just\n5 answer, did she or did she not attend.\n6 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.\n7 A. No.\n8 Q. Did Aaron Mitchell attend that showing?\n9 A. No.\n10 Q. Can you describe how long the showing took at the Hyde Park\n11 property.\n12 A. Maybe an hour.\n13 Q. During that showing did you communicate with Mr. Guo?\n14 A. A little.\n15 Q. How did you communicate with him?\n16 A. I introduced myself. We walked through the house with the\n17 other brokers. You know, there was always a little bit of a\n18 communication——I couldn't understand with the English that\n19 well.\n20 Q. In what language did you communicate with Mr. Guo?\n21 A. Me? English.\n22 Q. Do you know whether he speaks any other languages?\n23 A. Chinese. I don't know what dialect.\n24 Q. And Ms. Frosini, do you speak any dialect of Chinese?\n25 A. No.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 Q. Do you understand any dialect of Chinese?\n2 A. No.\n3 Q. So during the Hyde Park showing what, if anything, did Guo\n4 say about that property?\n5 MS. SHROFF: Objection. It's hearsay.\n6 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n7 A. They just really walked through the rooms.\n8 Q. And when you say \"they,\" to whom are you referring?\n9 A. Mr. and Mrs. Guo.\n10 Q. When was the second showing of the Crocker Mansion?\n11 A. After. So from that estate, we went to Mahwah, to Crocker\n12 Mansion.\n13 Q. Was that the same day?\n14 A. Yes.\n15 Q. Before we talk about the showing, can you describe the\n16 Crocker Mansion for the jury.\n17 A. Crocker Mansion is an estate, a replica of an estate in\n18 England, big estate, on 12 acres.\n19 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could please publish\n20 Government Exhibit 1100 at page 1.\n21 Q. Ms. Frosini, what type of document is this?\n22 A. This is called a listing.\n23 Q. And for which property?\n24 A. This is for Crocker Mansion.\n25 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could zoom in on the\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 top portion, please.\n2 Q. Looking at the photo here, Ms. Frosini, is that a photo of\n3 the Crocker Mansion?\n4 A. Yes, it is.\n5 Q. And to the right, kind of the first line of text, \"Last\n6 LP,\" do you see that?\n7 MS. MURRAY: We could highlight it, Ms. Loftus.\n8 A. Yes.\n9 Q. What does that refer to?\n10 A. That means the last listing price, which means, you know,\n11 that was the current listing price at that time.\n12 Q. And then looking down several lines, there's Original LP.\n13 MS. MURRAY: If we could highlight that, Ms. Loftus.\n14 Q. Ms. Frosini, what does that refer to?\n15 A. The original listing price.\n16 Q. And so for the Crocker Mansion, actually, on what date was\n17 this report run, looking at the top right?\n18 A. So looking at the top, this was listed February 16, 2021.\n19 Q. And for that listing, the last listing price was what?\n20 A. The last listing price was 33 million.\n21 MS. MURRAY: If we could zoom out on that portion,\n22 please, Ms. Loftus, and zoom in on the paragraph that begins\n23 down the page.\n24 Q. Ms. Frosini, can you please read this paragraph from the\n25 listing description for Crocker Mansion.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 A. \"One of the world's magnificent and rare estates,\n2 Darlington is an architectural masterpiece located within 25\n3 miles of New York City. Originally constructed in 1907——\"\n4 MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, may we just have her slow\n5 down because of the translation, please. Thank you.\n6 THE COURT: So just speak more slowly, please.\n7 A. Okay. \"Originally constructed in 1907, this estate has\n8 been meticulously restored, offering approximately 50,000\n9 square feet of spectacular living space, and more than 12 acres\n10 of marvelous grounds framed by the Ramapo Mountains. 21\n11 bedrooms, 19+ bathrooms, rare woods, stonework and\n12 craftsmanship throughout. Reception rooms of grand proportions\n13 include great hall, library, tea room, and formal dining room.\n14 Restaurant-style kitchen, movie theater, billiard room, indoor\n15 lap pool with spa, massage room, wine room, game room, gym,\n16 outdoor pool with cabana, majestic gardens with two fountains,\n17 tennis court, 8-car garage, interior design and furnishings by\n18 the world's top designers and artisans. For detailed property\n19 information, see link on Amenity Report (added to documents).\"\n20 Q. And in the first sentence there's a reference to\n21 Darlington. What does that refer to?\n22 A. I'm not the listing agent. So——\n23 Q. Do you have an understanding whether this paragraph refers\n24 to what you know as the Crocker Mansion?\n25 A. Yes.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, can we please go to page 64\n2 of Government Exhibit 1100.\n3 Q. Ms. Frosini, what is this document?\n4 A. This is what's called an amenity sheet, which highlights\n5 home features of the home.\n6 (Continued on next page)\n7\n8\n9\n10\n11\n12\n13\n14\n15\n16\n17\n18\n19\n20\n21\n22\n23\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 BY MS. MURRAY:\n2 Q. And focusing at the top of this document, can you read what\n3 the bolded text reads?\n4 A. Welcome to Darlington, 675 Ramapo Valley Road, Mahwah.\n5 Q. And that address, 675 Ramapo Valley Road, that's the\n6 address of the Crocker mansion, correct?\n7 A. Correct.\n8 Q. If we could zoom in on the top third, please, Ms. Loftus.\n9 Are these photos of the Crocker mansion?\n10 A. Yes.\n11 Q. Let's go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus. If we could\n12 zoom in a bit so it's easier to see.\n13 Ms. Frosini, generally speaking, what is this?\n14 A. This is a list of the renovations that the seller did from\n15 2008 to 2018.\n16 Q. I'm not going to go through bullet by bullet. Ms. Loftus\n17 if we could go to the next page, please, and then the next\n18 page.\n19 Ms. Frosini, generally speaking, what was the extent\n20 of the renovations that had been done as of the time of the\n21 showing?\n22 A. Enormous extent.\n23 Q. And what areas of the Crocker mansion had been renovated at\n24 the time of the showing?\n25 A. The entire home.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 Q. So that's 1100 at page 67, can we put that back up. If you\n2 could just focus on the very last line of text there.\n3 Ms. Frosini, can you read that last line here?\n4 A. Approximate cost of material and labor performed between\n5 2008/2018 is $19 million.\n6 Q. Thank you, Ms. Loftus. We can take that down now.\n7 So turning to your showing of the Crocker mansion, who\n8 attended that showing?\n9 A. Mrs. and Mr. Guo, myself, the seller, the driver, the\n10 Guo's driver and a couple security men.\n11 Q. What type of car did the Guos arrive in for that showing?\n12 A. I don't remember.\n13 Q. Did you ride with the Guos to that showing?\n14 A. No.\n15 Q. Approximately how long did the showing take?\n16 A. It was longer than Hyde Park. I'm guessing to say over an\n17 hour.\n18 Q. What, if anything, did Mr. Guo say about the Crocker\n19 mansion during that showing?\n20 MS. SHROFF: Same objection, your Honor.\n21 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n22 Q. What, if anything, did Miles Guo, Mr. Guo, say about the\n23 Crocker mansion during the showing?\n24 A. Comments about the detail of the home basically.\n25 Q. What are some examples of those comments?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 A. The detail of the millwork of the home and the quality of\n2 the home.\n3 Q. Based on your observations during that showing, what\n4 impression, if any, did you have of how Mr. Guo intended to use\n5 the Crocker mansion?\n6 MS. SHROFF: Objection.\n7 THE COURT: If you'd step up, please.\n8 (Continued on next page)\n9\n10\n11\n12\n13\n14\n15\n16\n17\n18\n19\n20\n21\n22\n23\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 (At the sidebar)\n2 THE COURT: You said based on your observations how\n3 did he intend to use the home. I don't know that she can state\n4 his intention other than by what he may have said.\n5 MS. MURRAY: Right. So it is based on her\n6 observations. It's 701 opinion. She's a real estate broker\n7 for 22 years. She taken people on showings. The question is\n8 whether she formed an understanding during the showing from, as\n9 your Honor said, from what she overheard or what she observed\n10 or conversations she had; for example, whether it was to be a\n11 family home, a residence.\n12 THE COURT: I would like you to be more specific about\n13 observation.\n14 MS. MURRAY: I can draw that out a little more.\n15 MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, we have a relevance\n16 objection.\n17 THE COURT: This is very relevant. Ms. Shroff, this\n18 is highly relevant as to the purpose of the home.\n19 MS. SHROFF: I know you're ruling against me, but I\n20 just want to make my record for a minute. It's fine. Of course\n21 the Court's ruling is always fine. I do believe that a real\n22 estate agent's impression or observation of why a person is\n23 buying a property is actually not relevant. The only relevance\n24 here would be nobody's impression. Whether or not the\n25 government can prove why he did or did not buy Mahwah is\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 something they can prove elsewhere, but not by a real estate\n2 agent's impression of what she thinks.\n3 THE COURT: What he stated, what he communicated.\n4 MS. SHROFF: But he never stated anything.\n5 THE COURT: That has not been established that he\n6 stated nothing. He talked about comments about the millwork.\n7 MS. SHROFF: As to the purpose. The purpose of the --\n8 I don't feel well today so you're going to have to excuse me.\n9 The purpose of the mansion is not impacted at all by the\n10 millwork. And also it's again her impression of why he was\n11 buying the property is irrelevant. And most importantly here,\n12 they've projected that it is May Guo who is the buyer of the\n13 property, so it's May Guo's letter they have introduced as the\n14 potential buyer of the property.\n15 THE COURT: She can comment about statements made to\n16 her, statements she may have overheard that may indicate the\n17 intended use of the property. That's my ruling.\n18 (Continued on next page)\n19\n20\n21\n22\n23\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 (In open court)\n2 BY MS. MURRAY:\n3 Q. Ms. Frosini, directing your attention again to the showing\n4 of the Crocker mansion, what, if anything, do you recall about\n5 what Miles Guo said about the property during that showing.\n6 A. Not really any comments, that I love the home or anything\n7 like that. Thank you very much. We'll talk it over and get\n8 back to you.\n9 Q. What, if anything, did Miles Guo say during that showing\n10 about potential alteration or renovation to the property?\n11 MS. SHROFF: Objection. She's answered to what Miles\n12 Guo said.\n13 THE COURT: You may answer.\n14 A. Can you repeat that. I'm sorry.\n15 Q. What, if anything, did Miles Guo say during the showing\n16 about potential alterations or renovations to the property?\n17 A. Nothing. That was the first time that they saw the house.\n18 Q. Now, after the showing of the Crocker mansion, what\n19 happened next?\n20 A. Next was -- and again, you know, this was 2021, but I\n21 got -- I don't remember the time, the exact day, but I got a\n22 call from Aaron Mitchell that they wanted to proceed with an\n23 offer.\n24 Q. The \"they\" you're referring to, Aaron Mitchell said they\n25 want to proceed with an offer, whom did you understand him to\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 be referring to?\n2 A. He said his client.\n3 MS. SHROFF: Objection to the hearsay. Objection.\n4 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n5 A. His client.\n6 Q. And, Ms. Frosini, generally speaking how did you\n7 communicate with Aaron Mitchell involving the Crocker mansion\n8 deal?\n9 A. We text and phone calls.\n10 Q. Ms. Loftus, if we can display for the witness what's been\n11 marked as Government Exhibit 1101, and if we could scroll\n12 through this.\n13 Ms. Frosini, what type of document is in Government\n14 Exhibit 1101?\n15 A. These are text that I received from Aaron Mitchell and my\n16 responses, so it's both of our text back and forth.\n17 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers\n18 Government Exhibit 1101.\n19 MS. SHROFF: Objection. Your Honor. It's hearsay.\n20 THE COURT: Overruled. It is admitted.\n21 (Government's Exhibit 1101 received in evidence)\n22 BY MS. MURRAY:\n23 Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could please publish this, and we can\n24 zoom in on this top portion that's the full screen. Thank you.\n25 Ms. Frosini, the name of the contact here at the top\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 of this chat message, can you read that?\n2 A. Aaron.\n3 Q. And the first message we see here, what is the date of\n4 that?\n5 A. November 27, 2021.\n6 Q. Now, in these messages are the messages that you sent in\n7 blue or in gray?\n8 A. Blue.\n9 Q. And then the gray messages are from Aaron Mitchell; is that\n10 right?\n11 A. Correct.\n12 Q. If we could go, please, Ms. Loftus to page three.\n13 So looking at the date here --\n14 A. November 28, 2021.\n15 Q. And looking at the bottom message in blue, can you read\n16 what that message says, that's from you to Aaron Mitchell?\n17 A. Wanted to keep conversation going. They can have estate\n18 for 28 million furnished. FYI, original asking price was 39\n19 million, adjusted price to 33 million in June. You can call me\n20 later. Thanks.\n21 Q. And the reference in that letter to estate, what is that\n22 estate?\n23 A. Crocker mansion.\n24 Q. If we could go to the next page, please. Looking in the\n25 middle in the gray message from Aaron Mitchell. What does that\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 message read?\n2 A. The nothing crazy one?\n3 Q. Correct.\n4 A. Nothing crazy about the property, right? Violent history,\n5 stories of haunting, etc.\n6 Q. What was your response to that message from Aaron Mitchell?\n7 A. Mr. Guo ask me that about ghost, no violence that I know\n8 of. Call me when you're done with dinner.\n9 Q. What were you referring to here with respect to some\n10 conversation you had with Mr. Guo about ghost?\n11 A. Sometimes buyers will ask if there's been any violence in\n12 the homes or oddities in the homes.\n13 Q. With respect to Mr. Guo in particular, what was your\n14 conversation with him?\n15 A. About that question?\n16 Q. Correct.\n17 A. That I would find out.\n18 Q. What, if anything, did he ask you?\n19 A. I'm sorry.\n20 Q. What, if anything, had he asked you that's referenced here?\n21 MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor. That's hearsay\n22 and it's asked and answered about this exact conversation twice\n23 before.\n24 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n25 A. He asked, you know, if there were any ghost in the house.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 Q. When had he asked you that?\n2 A. When we were at the property, when he saw the property.\n3 Q. And the next message, Ms. Frosini, what is the date of\n4 that? It's at the bottom of this page.\n5 A. November 29, 2021.\n6 Q. Ms. Loftus, if we can zoom on that message from\n7 Ms. Frosini.\n8 Ms. Frosini, there's a reference in this message to\n9 the foundation. Can you read that sentence. It starts with\n10 please let?\n11 A. Please let the foundation know that the owner is putting a\n12 detail package of information together for them to review. I\n13 will forward to you tomorrow. It's a lot of detail. I can\n14 also go to the town and request to look at the file as well.\n15 As far as known cemetery, fires, etc., the answer is no.\n16 Chris.\n17 Q. Now, Ms. Frosini, what's the foundation that you're\n18 referring to here?\n19 A. The buyer.\n20 Q. And what was the name of that buyer?\n21 A. Well, again, the name on the proof of funds was May Guo\n22 Family Trust, but the name of the buyer when we're in contract\n23 is Taurus Foundation.\n24 Q. And, Ms. Loftus, if we could go to the next page, please.\n25 Actually, the following page, excuse me.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 Ms. Frosini, focusing on your message here, the second\n2 message on the page, what date and time was that sent?\n3 A. December 1, 2021.\n4 Q. And can you read just the first sentence of that message\n5 after \"Hi Aaron.\"\n6 A. Owner ask me to put in writing so I will put together a\n7 contract of sale. Please email me the title of who's\n8 purchasing the property along with their address.\n9 Can we put 10 percent right after attorney review\n10 concludes, which is usually a three-day deal? Let me know\n11 about closing date. Let me know about closing date owners are\n12 fine with now December or January, and who is going to be\n13 signing this, you?\n14 Q. Now, Ms. Frosini, what were you asking for with the\n15 language about the title of who's purchasing the property?\n16 A. Because I needed to know who the title of the buyer would\n17 be on the contract when I write it up.\n18 Q. And what were you asking about in the last sentence when\n19 you said, Who's going to be signing this, you?\n20 A. Because we do contracts electronically now, so I needed to\n21 know whose name or LLC or whatever it was going to be, I needed\n22 to know who that was in order for me to finalize the contract.\n23 Q. And if we could go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus.\n24 Looking at the top, same date you texted Aaron\n25 Mitchell again, and what was his response at 5:47 p.m. on\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 December 1?\n2 A. Need to speak to someone in UK repurchasing entity. Will\n3 get back to you tomorrow a.m.\n4 Q. Ms. Frosini, do you know whom Aaron Mitchell was going to\n5 speak with?\n6 A. No.\n7 Q. By this point in the sale had you heard of Taurus Fund SP?\n8 A. No.\n9 Q. It continues here, if we could look at the next message\n10 from Aaron Mitchell. It says, Would it be possible for the\n11 father to come back to the house tomorrow (10 a.m.) and meet\n12 Vinny as well. Who did you understand the father to be?\n13 A. Mr. Guo.\n14 Q. And who did you understand Vinny to be?\n15 A. He managed the property for the seller.\n16 Q. The next message from Aaron Mitchell begins with, one\n17 concern the mother had was the AC was loud. Do you see that?\n18 A. Yes.\n19 Q. Who did you understand the mother to be?\n20 A. Mrs. Guo.\n21 Q. And that's Miles Guo's wife; is that right?\n22 A. Correct.\n23 Q. If we can go to the next page please, Ms. Loftus.\n24 Looking at the second message on this page from Aaron\n25 Mitchell, the second gray message on this page.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 A. December 2, 2021.\n2 Q. And Aaron Mitchell text, They are five minutes out. Who\n3 did you understand that to refer to?\n4 A. The buyers.\n5 Q. And then at 2:59 p.m. that same day, what did you text to\n6 Aaron Mitchell?\n7 A. What did I text?\n8 Q. Mm hm. In the blue if we could highlight that, Ms. Loftus.\n9 A. FYI, they just left.\n10 Q. Ms. Frosini, do you recall a visit to the Crocker mansion\n11 by the Guos on December 2, 2021?\n12 A. Yes, we had a visit. I just, you know, the date, again it\n13 was two years ago; but, yes, we were there.\n14 Q. What happened during that visit?\n15 A. They looked at the house in more detail.\n16 Q. Can you walk us through what you recall about that visit on\n17 December 2nd?\n18 A. That they went through the house in more detail, every\n19 room, and I wasn't with them all the time because I just let\n20 the buyers go off, especially when they're there a second time.\n21 They want to talk amongst themselves.\n22 Q. And for this visit who attended? Who were the buyers that\n23 came to that visit?\n24 A. You know what, I don't really remember.\n25 Q. Do you remember whether Mr. Guo, Miles Guo, attended that\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 visit?\n2 MS. SHROFF: Objection, asked and answered.\n3 THE COURT: You may answer.\n4 A. Yes, and the daughter may have been there that day. I\n5 don't remember the days; but, yeah, I don't remember exactly\n6 who was there. I mean, Mr. Guo was there, and I believe maybe\n7 the daughter that day. But again, I can't promise it was that\n8 day.\n9 Q. Focusing on Mr. Guo in particular, did you have any\n10 discussions with Mr. Guo that day during that visit?\n11 A. Casual conversation possibly. Again, there was a language\n12 little difficulty, but casual conversation here and there.\n13 Again, I didn't walk through the whole entire house with them.\n14 Q. If we could go, Ms. Loftus, to the next page, please.\n15 Looking at the top text here from you to Aaron Mitchell, what\n16 is the date?\n17 A. December 3, 2021.\n18 Q. Can you read that message.\n19 A. Aaron, if I were to get seller to agree to 26 closing\n20 December 20, do you think that would work?\n21 Q. What is the \"26\" here a reference to?\n22 A. You know what, I'm looking at this myself here. You know\n23 what, I don't know.\n24 Q. Looking down a bit further there's a text from Aaron\n25 Mitchell middle of the page. What information is he requesting\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 about the seller?\n2 A. Do you have seller's full name so I can put in a letter.\n3 Q. And then a few messages down he sent another text that\n4 begins with email. Do you see that?\n5 A. Emailed you letter. Let me know if you need anything else.\n6 Q. If we could go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus. This\n7 is again the same day, December 3rd. The message from Aaron\n8 Mitchell that begins, Hi, can you read that, please?\n9 A. Hi, Chris, do you have the floor plans for Crocker.\n10 Q. And what was your response?\n11 A. I'll get it. Were they happy with sellers accepting their\n12 offer? Seller may want to wait for me to send it until we have\n13 the signed contract. I'll let you know.\n14 Q. And what was Aaron's Mitchell's response to that text?\n15 A. They were more focused on getting it ready for their taste,\n16 so if I can get them quickly, great.\n17 Q. Ms. Frosini, did you have an understanding of who the\n18 \"they\" was that Aaron Mitchell was referring to?\n19 A. Yes.\n20 Q. Who?\n21 A. Again, the buyers.\n22 Q. And who were the buyers?\n23 MS. SHROFF: Objection, asked and answered.\n24 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n25 A. The buyers were the Guo family.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 Q. Ms. Loftus, we can take that down. If we could pull up for\n2 the witness, please, Government Exhibit 1102. If we could\n3 scroll through.\n4 Ms. Frosini, do you recognize the document in\n5 Government Exhibit 1102?\n6 A. These were the floor plans that were given to me by the\n7 seller.\n8 Q. Have you reviewed this exhibit previously?\n9 A. When I received it.\n10 Q. Are these various documents relating to the Crocker mansion\n11 deal?\n12 A. Correct.\n13 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, the government offers\n14 Government Exhibit 1102.\n15 MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor. May we have a\n16 sidebar?\n17 THE COURT: Okay.\n18 (Continued on next page)\n19\n20\n21\n22\n23\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 (At the sidebar)\n2 MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, the document is an email\n3 exchange between a person named Gladys Chow and the realtor.\n4 There is no relationship or co-conspirator argument that would\n5 make these exchanges admissible, and they are written hearsay.\n6 So for those reasons, the email exchanges between Ms. Chow and\n7 the real estate agent we would object to.\n8 THE COURT: What do they say?\n9 MS. SHROFF: She asks a lot of questions and the real\n10 estate agent replies. She ask about furnishings. She ask for\n11 recommendation for decorators. She asks for how and who she\n12 should use to refurbish the place. There's no hearsay\n13 exception to Ms. Chow's interaction with the real estate agent.\n14 THE COURT: Who is Ms. Chow?\n15 MS. SHROFF: Ms. Chow is an employee.\n16 THE COURT: Of?\n17 MS. SHROFF: I believe she's an employee -- I'm not\n18 sure technically who she is an employee for. I really think\n19 you should not laugh or scoff at me, Mr. Finkel.\n20 MR. FINKEL: I'm not laughing at you. I was laughing\n21 at your response.\n22 MS. SHROFF: That's the same thing, my response.\n23 MR. FINKEL: I apologize, Ms. Shroff.\n24 MS. SHROFF: Ms. Chow's communication with the real\n25 estate agent are hearsay, and for those reasons we would\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 object.\n2 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, Ms. Chow is an agent of Miles\n3 Guo. She is communicating with the real estate agent as she's\n4 communicated with various other people on behalf of Mr. Guo,\n5 asking questions for Mr. Guo, taking responses back to Mr. Guo.\n6 Indeed, Gladys Chow was on the list of potential\n7 attorney/client privilege that defense counsel provided to the\n8 government a year ago. Because they said that she was an\n9 interpreter in an assistant relationship with Mr. Guo. She was\n10 so close that she might be privy to privileged communication.\n11 She is frequently communicating, not only with Mrs. Frosini,\n12 but with various other people, including; for example, Paolo\n13 Sozzi, one of the government's anticipated witnesses about\n14 additional renovations. And she is conveying information from\n15 Mr. Guo and providing it back to Mr. Guo. She's clearly an\n16 agent and there's an exception.\n17 THE COURT: These emails come in. Let's move on.\n18 MS. SHROFF: There's no evidence in the record about\n19 the facts that Ms. Murray has recited at sidebar. There's been\n20 no testimony to this effect. There's been no testimony about\n21 Ms. Chow. There's been no testimony about a potential witness\n22 to come obviously because the witness has not yet testified.\n23 There's no establishment of an agency relationship between\n24 Ms. Chow and Mr. Guo. And the fact that she would be on a\n25 privilege could also reflect the fact that she translated for\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 him after his arrest in the jail. So for those reasons,\n2 there's been no establishment of an agency relationship between\n3 Gladys Chow and Mr. Guo. Additionally, your Honor, the\n4 government knows this full well because they approached\n5 Ms. Chow and sought to speak to her, and she declined. None of\n6 this is in evidence, therefore, I continue to object on\n7 hearsay.\n8 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, I certainly intend to ask\n9 Ms. Frosini the next question who Ms. Chow was and what the\n10 nature was of her interaction with Ms. Chow.\n11 THE COURT: The email comes in.\n12 (Government's Exhibit 1102 received in evidence)\n13 (Continued on next page)\n14\n15\n16\n17\n18\n19\n20\n21\n22\n23\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 (In open court; jury present)\n2 THE COURT: Go ahead.\n3 BY MR. FINKEL:\n4 Q. Ms. Loftus if you can publish what's now in evidence as\n5 Government Exhibit 1102. Let's go to page 63. If we could zoom\n6 in on this email at the bottom, please.\n7 Ms. Frosini, what is the date of this email?\n8 A. December 3, 2021.\n9 Q. And who sent this email?\n10 A. Aaron Mitchell.\n11 Q. If you could read the email that you received from Aaron\n12 Mitchell?\n13 A. Does this work to show interest intent? Let me know if he\n14 wants deposit, etc. or if he is good with the number. His\n15 attorney can speak to our attorney handling the closing.\n16 Q. And if we could go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus,\n17 and zoom in on the content portion here.\n18 Ms. Frosini, what is this?\n19 A. This is a letter of intent.\n20 Q. For what property?\n21 A. For 675 Ramapo Valley Road, Crocker mansion in Mahwah.\n22 Q. What is the date of this letter of intent?\n23 A. December 3, 2021.\n24 Q. I'm going to read the letter. Thank you for taking the\n25 time to show representatives of my client your property at 675\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 Ramapo Valley Road in Mahwah, New Jersey. My client has\n2 authorized me to formally offer 26 million to purchase the\n3 property. This would be a cash deal. Per you request closing\n4 would occur on or before December 20, 2021.\n5 First of all, who did you understand the\n6 representatives of my client to be in this letter?\n7 A. I don't know why he wrote it that way.\n8 Q. This refers to --\n9 MS. SHROFF: Objection. Move to strike as\n10 non-responsive.\n11 THE COURT: Sustained. If you'll read back the\n12 question, please, and listen to the question and answer that\n13 question.\n14 A. You said thank you for taking the time to show\n15 representatives of my client. I don't know what he means,\n16 Aaron Rogers means by show representatives instead of saying my\n17 client or the buyers. Maybe that's his term to say\n18 representatives.\n19 MS. SHROFF: Your Honor, I move to strike everything\n20 after \"I don't know what he means.\"\n21 THE COURT: From \"maybe\" I'm striking. Go ahead.\n22 Q. Ms. Frosini, the reference here to showing certain people\n23 the property, whom did you show the property to who was\n24 associated with Aaron Mitchell?\n25 MS. SHROFF: Objection to the leading.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 A. The Guo family.\n2 THE COURT: Sustained. Who did you show the property\n3 to.\n4 THE WITNESS: The Guo family.\n5 Q. If we could go to Government Exhibit 1102 at page 19,\n6 please. Looking at this email at the top, what is the date of\n7 this email?\n8 A. December 6, 2021.\n9 Q. And what property is this regarding according to the\n10 subject line?\n11 A. 675 Ramapo Valley Road.\n12 Q. At the top of the content of the email starting with sent,\n13 there's some text in bold and italics. Do you see that?\n14 A. Yes.\n15 Q. What does that read?\n16 A. Sent on behalf of Bruce E. Whitaker.\n17 Q. Who is Bruce E. Whitaker?\n18 A. The seller's attorney.\n19 Q. And looking at the first sentence here, start with attach,\n20 what does that read?\n21 A. Attach is a fully executed contract. Please note that I\n22 have made one modification to paragraph 3C which is to have the\n23 deposit held in our trust account. Please have buyer initial\n24 this modification.\n25 Q. And if we could go, Ms. Loftus, to page 21. That's the\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 attached contract.\n2 Ms. Frosini, if we could focus on item seven down to\n3 the bottom, Ms. Frosini. Ms. Frosini, who's listed as the\n4 seller on this signed contract?\n5 A. Crocker Mansion Estate, LLC.\n6 Q. And who was the buyer?\n7 A. Taurus Fund SP.\n8 Q. What did you understand Taurus Fund SP to be?\n9 A. I don't know. I didn't ask.\n10 Q. In your real estate practice, how often, if at all, are\n11 entities the buyers of properties?\n12 MS. SHROFF: Objection.\n13 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n14 A. For significant properties, people will put -- they won't\n15 put their personal name. It will be either LLCs or trusts.\n16 Q. Do you see the Taurus Fund's signature --\n17 A. Yes.\n18 Q. -- on this contract. How did you get a signed copy of this\n19 contract?\n20 A. Electronically.\n21 Q. Do you know the corporate structure of Taurus Fund SP?\n22 A. No.\n23 Q. Looking at the bottom right here, is that your electronic\n24 signature on this contract?\n25 A. Yes.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 Q. If we could go to page 18 of this exhibit, Ms. Loftus, and\n2 focus on the email from Ms. Frosini.\n3 What is the date of this email, Ms. Frosini?\n4 A. December 6, 2201.\n5 Q. And to whom did you send this?\n6 A. To Aaron Mitchell.\n7 Q. If you could read the body of this email?\n8 A. Congrats to the foundation. Attached is a fully executed\n9 contract. Please see attorneys note below.\n10 Q. Why did you say, Congrats to the foundation?\n11 A. Cause I always congratulate the buyer.\n12 Q. Ms. Loftus, we can take this down. If we could please go\n13 to Government Exhibit 1101, page 12.\n14 Starting at the top message, what is the date of this\n15 message, this text message from Aaron Mitchell?\n16 A. Any luck with the plans? They have called me three times\n17 today. My or May and the mother really want to see them. I\n18 want to keep them happy.\n19 Q. And looking first at the date of this message which is just\n20 at the top of this screenshot, what was the date that Aaron\n21 Mitchell sent you that text message?\n22 A. December 4, 2021.\n23 Q. Who did you understand May to refer to?\n24 A. The daughter.\n25 Q. Whose daughter?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 A. Mr. and Mrs. Guo's daughter.\n2 Q. Who did you understand the mother to refer to?\n3 A. Mr. Guo's wife.\n4 Q. And at the bottom here there's a message from you, the last\n5 text from you on this page. It indicates, Just emailed you\n6 floor plans. Please confirm receipt.\n7 And on what date had you emailed Aaron Mitchell the\n8 floor plans?\n9 A. December 4, 2021.\n10 Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could go now to Government Exhibit 1102\n11 page one, focus on the email.\n12 Ms. Frosini, who sent this email?\n13 A. Gladys Chow.\n14 Q. Who is Gladys Chow?\n15 A. Gladys Chow worked with the family. I don't know her exact\n16 tight.\n17 Q. Just to be clear, which family did Gladys Chow work with?\n18 A. The Guo family.\n19 Q. What is the email domain used to send you this message?\n20 A. HCHKTECH.com.\n21 Q. Do you know what HCHKTECH is?\n22 A. No.\n23 Q. And what's the date of this email from Gladys Chow?\n24 A. December 6, 2021.\n25 Q. That's about two days after the text message of the floor\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 plan?\n2 MS. SHROFF: Objection to the testifying.\n3 THE COURT: Sustained.\n4 Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could pull up page 12 of Government\n5 Exhibit 1101, focusing on the middle here.\n6 The blue message from you, on what date did you send\n7 these two messages to Aaron Mitchell regarding the floor plans\n8 to the Crocker mansion?\n9 A. December 4.\n10 Q. And, Ms. Loftus, let's go back to 1102, page one, please.\n11 How many days later did you receive this email from\n12 Gladys Chow?\n13 A. December 6.\n14 Q. Who is copied on this email?\n15 A. Aaron Mitchell.\n16 Q. Ms. Frosini, can you read this email?\n17 A. Hope you had nice weekend. We met the other day in the\n18 Darlington tour, and I just have a few more questions. One,\n19 would you know any interior kitchen designers, shades and rugs\n20 company both New Jersey and New York that can recommend to us.\n21 Number two, other than the attached floor plans, do\n22 you have any other drawings that can be provided to us.\n23 Number three, I have circled three areas on page three\n24 of the floor plan. If we want to empty each one out and\n25 convert each of them into one single room, around how long\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 would that take. Thank you for your help.\n2 Q. Ms. Loftus, we can zoom out of that, and if we could go\n3 through the next few pages of Government Exhibit 1102. Stop\n4 there for a moment.\n5 Ms. Frosini, what is this?\n6 A. This is a floor plan.\n7 Q. For what property?\n8 A. 675 Ramapo Road.\n9 Q. If you could let us know what part of that property does\n10 this floor plan represent?\n11 A. I don't have my glasses, first floor.\n12 Q. Thank you. We can zoom out of that. Let's go to the next\n13 page. What part of the property is this?\n14 A. Second floor.\n15 Q. And the next page, please?\n16 A. Third floor.\n17 Q. Now, do you see red boxes on this floor plan?\n18 A. Yes.\n19 Q. Is it your understanding that those are the red boxes that\n20 Ms. Chow was referring to in her email to you? We could go\n21 back to the first page, Ms. Loftus.\n22 Looking again at item three here in Ms. Chow's email,\n23 do you see that, Ms. Frosini?\n24 A. Yes.\n25 Q. Let's go back to page four, please, Ms. Loftus. Based on\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 that email, is it your understanding that these red boxes\n2 indicate a portion?\n3 MS. SHROFF: Objection to the leading.\n4 Q. What is your understanding of what is indicated by the red\n5 box?\n6 A. I never answered this question because I wasn't involved in\n7 any of that.\n8 Q. Understood. Setting aside any response, if any, you might\n9 have given to the question, what was your understanding of what\n10 the question was?\n11 MS. SHROFF: Objection, form.\n12 THE COURT: Are you asking her whether she sees any\n13 relationship between the question and what is on the screen?\n14 MS. MURRAY: Yes, your Honor.\n15 THE COURT: You may answer.\n16 A. I really never commented on this at all.\n17 Q. If we can go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus.\n18 Which part of the house does this reflect, Ms.\n19 Frosini?\n20 A. Basement.\n21 Q. And then the next page, if we could focus on this.\n22 Ms. Frosini, this is an email from you, correct?\n23 A. Correct.\n24 Q. Who did you send this to?\n25 A. Gladys Chow.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 Q. Copying who?\n2 A. Aaron Mitchell.\n3 Q. What was your reply?\n4 A. Thanks for your email. I will get names designers to you\n5 tomorrow and will call the home manager regarding number two\n6 and number three below.\n7 Q. Who was the home manager?\n8 A. The home manager was Vinny Labarberi.\n9 Q. Let's go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus.\n10 Ms. Frosini, what is Gladys' response to that email\n11 that you had sent?\n12 A. Thank you. It would be nice if you get us some -- she said\n13 DWG. I'm thinking drawing -- files of the home both 2D and 3D.\n14 Thank you.\n15 Q. Ms. Loftus, we can go two pages down to page 10, please.\n16 Ms. Frosini, what's the subject of this email that you\n17 sent?\n18 A. Floor plans.\n19 Q. What did you provide with this email?\n20 A. Additional floor plans that I had gotten from the seller.\n21 Q. Ms. Loftus, let's go back down another two pages. Looking\n22 at this on the kind of top right of our screen, Ms. Loftus, if\n23 you could zoom in on what portion of the home this reflects.\n24 Zoom out of that.\n25 On the top right along the side, what level are these\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 additional floor plans relating to?\n2 A. Basement level flooring finish plan.\n3 Q. And, Ms. Loftus, if we could go to the next page and\n4 similar exercise. This is on the left, bottom left.\n5 A. Crocker residence first level furniture floor plan.\n6 Q. And the next page, Ms. Loftus, please. This one is on the\n7 bottom left, which portion of the home are these additional\n8 plans relating to?\n9 A. Crocker residence, second level furniture floor plan.\n10 Q. And the next page, please.\n11 A. Crocker residence second level furniture floor plan.\n12 Q. And finally the next page, please, Ms. Loftus.\n13 A. Crocker residence third level furniture floor plan.\n14 Q. If we could zoom out of that.\n15 Ms. Frosini, how many levels were in the Crocker\n16 mansion?\n17 A. I don't know if I'm mixing. I believe there was above the\n18 finish lower level there are three.\n19 Q. If we could go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus.\n20 Ms. Frosini, what is the subject of this email?\n21 A. Designers.\n22 Q. And the date?\n23 A. December 15, 2021.\n24 Q. Who did you send this to?\n25 A. Gladys.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 Q. At a high level, what did these designs you sent to Gladys\n2 do?\n3 A. I just submitted the list to her.\n4 Q. What type of designers are these?\n5 A. Interior designers.\n6 Q. All right. Ms. Loftus, let's go down to two pages down.\n7 Let's zoom out. I think we're looking to go another page down.\n8 Let's go back, Ms. Loftus, to Government Exhibit 1101, page 19.\n9 These are again from the text messages with Aaron\n10 Mitchell. The message at the top with Aaron Mitchell reads,\n11 Yes, Yvette will be arriving with everyone at noon. Who is\n12 Yvette?\n13 A. Yvette worked with Mr. Guo.\n14 Q. And then at the bottom here, what is the date of that\n15 message if we look at the bottom half of these text?\n16 A. December 13, 2021.\n17 Q. What did you write to Aaron Mitchell on that date?\n18 A. FYI, everyone is here.\n19 Q. What was Aaron's response?\n20 A. On my way. Thought we were meeting at noon.\n21 Q. And then your next two responses, understanding one is a\n22 bit cuff off?\n23 A. So did I. They changed.\n24 Q. And then you write, just spoke to Yvette. Do you see that?\n25 A. Right. I think it finishes on just spoke to Yvette.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 They --\n2 Q. Can we go to the next page, Ms. Loftus. Actually, let's go\n3 back up one page.\n4 Ms. Frosini, do you recall a meeting on December 13,\n5 2021?\n6 A. We were doing -- I'm just thinking of when the inspection\n7 was. I don't have my notes. I don't know when the inspections\n8 were. We had inspections of the home, and then we have\n9 structural inspection on another day, and that may have been\n10 that day.\n11 Q. And who, if anyone, attended those inspections?\n12 A. The home inspection -- and I may be wrong, the family\n13 wasn't there. I was the whole time. Then again, I'm sorry,\n14 but I'm just guessing. And then another day we had a\n15 structural inspection, and I believe that's when they were\n16 there.\n17 MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor, to the guessing.\n18 THE COURT: So don't guess. Just state what you know.\n19 Q. Ms. Loftus, let's go to page 25 of this exhibit. Ms.\n20 Frosini, in the first message from Aaron Mitchell, the\n21 first gray message, can you read that message?\n22 A. My message in the gray?\n23 Q. Sorry, the gray from Aaron Mitchell.\n24 A. Thanks, is any time going to be there Thursday or can\n25 someone be there to let Scott in with contractor.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 Q. Who is Scott?\n2 A. Scott was a security position. Don't know his title.\n3 Q. Can we go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus, focusing on\n4 the top portion of this message.\n5 Do you see the text message that you sent to Aaron\n6 Mitchell there?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. It reads in part, I sent Gladys per her request a bunch of\n9 high-end designers. Let me know if you guys need anything from\n10 me. What type of designers had you sent Gladys the names of?\n11 A. Interior designers.\n12 Q. And let's go to the next page, please. If you could read\n13 your first text message on this page to Aaron Mitchell?\n14 A. I'll meet seller tomorrow morning. In fact, he wanted me\n15 to schedule time between architect and principle, when or\n16 tonight. Let me know.\n17 Q. Who is principle?\n18 A. The client, the buyer.\n19 Q. And which individual in particular were you referring to\n20 when you wrote principle?\n21 A. The buyers, the family.\n22 Q. Which family, Ms. Frosini?\n23 A. The Guo family.\n24 Q. And then looking down about two thirds of the way down the\n25 page. There's a message from Aaron Mitchell starts with Scott.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 Can you read that in your response?\n2 A. Scott will be there at 11.\n3 Q. And what was your response?\n4 A. Yes, I'm meeting him.\n5 Q. If we could go to the next page, please, and read the top\n6 two text messages, the first from Aaron Mitchell?\n7 A. Can the architect and Vinny come to New York to discuss\n8 plans.\n9 Q. And then what was your response?\n10 A. I'll ask when. Just a thought, don't you think it would be\n11 best to meet at the home in case they need to walk the rooms.\n12 Q. And then looking down a bit in this chain on December 17,\n13 2021, the second message from Aaron Mitchell. So the last\n14 message from him on this page, what does that read?\n15 A. Can you send Amy the structural inspection invoice.\n16 Q. Who's Amy?\n17 A. Amy Buck is the real estate attorney.\n18 Q. What real estate attorney?\n19 A. She's the one that handled the closing for the buyer.\n20 Q. And let's go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus.\n21 We could zoom in on that. Looking here at the last\n22 message on this page from Aaron Mitchell, what does he write to\n23 you, starting with Did you?\n24 A. Did you get a receipt for the $1500.\n25 Q. Can you read that message again. I think you might have\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 missed one of the words.\n2 A. Did you get Y, the letter Y, a receipt for the $1500.\n3 Q. Who did you understand \"Y\" to refer to?\n4 A. Did you get Yvette a receipt for the $1500.\n5 Q. Let's go to the next page, please, Ms. Loftus.\n6 Ms. Frosini, you wrote, Sent revised you and Amy.\n7 Aaron Mitchell responded. Then your next message that starts\n8 with Aaron. Can you please read that text message?\n9 A. Aaron, please congratulate the buyers for me. They are so\n10 nice and so is there staff. I need to talk to you about what I\n11 can do for them to thank them as well. Thanks again, Aaron.\n12 Q. In this message, Ms. Frosini, what individuals were you\n13 referring to when you said the buyers?\n14 A. The Guo family.\n15 Q. And when you indicated their staff, what staff were you\n16 referring to?\n17 A. The security guys, Yvette.\n18 Q. And those are staff of whom?\n19 A. You know, I use the word \"staff.\" Maybe that was\n20 inappropriate, but these are the people that I met through the\n21 Guo family.\n22 Q. And let's look at the next message that you sent. What\n23 date did you send, Hi Aaron?\n24 A. December 22, 2021.\n25 Q. Can you read that message?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 A. Hi, Aaron. Tomorrow, do you have a minute to talk. I'd\n2 like to get the buyers something. In the meantime, is it corny\n3 to send them a nice holiday beautiful floral arrangement?\n4 Being the privacy factor, I don't know if they would want me to\n5 send something to their Connecticut home. We can talk\n6 tomorrow. Thanks.\n7 Q. Ms. Frosini, did Aaron Mitchell ever respond to that text\n8 message?\n9 A. No.\n10 Q. We can take that down, Ms. Loftus.\n11 Ms. Frosini, after the purchase of the Crocker\n12 mansion, do you have any knowledge of any renovations, if any,\n13 that were done to the property?\n14 A. No, I was never there.\n15 Q. Do you know if at all that property was furnished?\n16 A. No.\n17 Q. Did you have any additional or further contact with Aaron\n18 Mitchell?\n19 A. No.\n20 Q. Did you have any further contact with the Guo family\n21 directly?\n22 A. After the closing of the house?\n23 Q. Correct.\n24 A. Maybe about like two months after.\n25 Q. What was the nature of that contact?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 A. To potentially look at commercial space.\n2 Q. Where was that commercial space?\n3 A. In Bergen County.\n4 Q. Who, if anyone, contacted you about looking at commercial\n5 space?\n6 A. Aaron Mitchell was the contact, initial contact.\n7 Q. And what happened?\n8 A. And then I talked to the security, mostly the security\n9 guys.\n10 Q. Talk to them about what?\n11 A. About potential commercial space.\n12 Q. Did there come a time, if ever, when you did a showing of\n13 potential commercial space in Bergen County?\n14 A. Yes, there were a couple of buildings.\n15 Q. Who, if anyone, did you show those buildings to?\n16 A. Two security and Mr. Guo, just a couple of occasions, but\n17 mostly security.\n18 Q. What types of commercial space did you show to security in\n19 Bergen County?\n20 A. Office space.\n21 Q. Did you have an understanding of who was going to use the\n22 office space that you were showing?\n23 A. Whatever business that the family --\n24 MS. SHROFF: Objection.\n25 THE COURT: You may answer.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 A. Whatever business, you know, the family needed the office\n2 space for. I shouldn't say the family, Mr. Guo.\n3 Q. Did there come a time when you learned the name of any\n4 business that was going to be looking into that space?\n5 A. No, never did a contract together.\n6 Q. Was there any offer made on any of the commercial space\n7 that you showed?\n8 A. We never put a contract together.\n9 Q. After those interactions, Ms. Frosini, relating to the\n10 commercial space, did you have any other contact with the Guo\n11 family?\n12 A. No.\n13 Q. And after the commercial space, did you have any contact\n14 with the Guo family staff?\n15 A. The staff.\n16 MS. SHROFF: Objection to the phrase, Guo family\n17 staff.\n18 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n19 A. No, just on the commercial.\n20 Q. But after the commercial showings that you had?\n21 A. No.\n22 Q. What contact did you have with the --\n23 A. The family, no.\n24 MS. MURRAY: May I have a moment, your Honor.\n25 THE COURT: You may.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 Q. Ms. Frosini, based on your interactions representing the\n2 buyer of the Crocker mansion, what was your understanding of\n3 why the buyer was purchasing the Crocker mansion?\n4 MS. SHROFF: Objection.\n5 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n6 A. For their home.\n7 Q. Ms. Loftus, if we could please pull up Government Exhibit\n8 Z12 and go to page 19. This is in evidence.\n9 Ms. Frosini, looking at the top of this document, top\n10 left, what is the name of the company that's in the top left\n11 corner in the box of this document?\n12 MS. SHROFF: Objection. There's no question other\n13 than to read the document. That's improper. She can ask a\n14 question about the document.\n15 THE COURT: Is the document in evidence?\n16 MS. MURRAY: It is, your Honor.\n17 THE COURT: And the question is again.\n18 Q. The name of the entity listed on the top left here?\n19 MS. SHROFF: Objection.\n20 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n21 A. Crane Advisory Group, LLC.\n22 Q. And then the name on the top right in the box?\n23 A. Top right.\n24 Q. Yes?\n25 A. Crane Advisory Group, LLC.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 Q. And, Ms. Frosini, have you seen this document before?\n2 A. Never.\n3 Q. Looking at the first box in the middle of the page with the\n4 yellow outline, do you recognize the name of the entity listed\n5 there?\n6 A. Lawall & Mitchell, LLC.\n7 Q. Do you recognize that company?\n8 A. Yeah, that's Aaron Mitchell.\n9 Q. And then looking at the bottom here, the three different\n10 companies that are listed along the bottom starting at the\n11 bottom left, what is that?\n12 A. McDonnell Whitaker Attorney Trust.\n13 Q. And the middle?\n14 A. Insight Title Services LLC Trust.\n15 Q. And the top middle right?\n16 A. Buck Esquire LLC Attorney Trust account.\n17 Q. Are you familiar with the Buck Esquire LLC?\n18 A. That's Amy Buck, the attorney.\n19 THE COURT: Attorney for whom?\n20 THE WITNESS: The buyer, the real estate attorney.\n21 The one that did the real estate transaction.\n22 THE COURT: Go ahead.\n23 Q. Let's go to the next page, please, and focus in on the top\n24 portion.\n25 Ms. Frosini, do you see the property location listed\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross\n1 here, it's under item G?\n2 A. Property location 675 Ramapo Valley Road Mahwah, New\n3 Jersey.\n4 Q. That's the Crocker mansion, correct?\n5 A. Correct.\n6 Q. Looking to the right of that in item H, the settlement\n7 agent, who is listed as the settlement agency?\n8 A. Insight Title Services, LLC.\n9 Q. And looking back over to the left a bit, item D here, name\n10 and address of borrower, what's the name and address of the\n11 borrower?\n12 A. Borrower is Taurus Fund, LLC.\n13 Q. And then finally item 101 on the left near the bottom of\n14 the screen we're looking at here, what is listed as the\n15 contract sales price of the Crocker mansion?\n16 A. 26 million.\n17 MS. MURRAY: Just a moment again, your Honor, please.\n18 No further questions.\n19 THE COURT: Cross-examination.\n20 MS. SHROFF: Thank you, your Honor. Could I actually\n21 have that exhibit back up. Thank you.\n22 CROSS-EXAMINATION\n23 BY MS. SHROFF:\n24 Q. Could I have the first page of that document.\n25 Good afternoon, Ms. Frosini, how are you?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross\n1 A. Fine. Thank you.\n2 Q. Ms. Frosini, you were just shown this document by\n3 government counsel, correct?\n4 A. Correct.\n5 Q. And you met with government counsel before today, correct?\n6 A. Via zoom.\n7 Q. Zoom or otherwise, you met with her, right?\n8 A. I met with Micah Fergenson, and the first time I met her on\n9 a Friday via zoom.\n10 Q. Last Friday?\n11 A. With Micah Fergenson, yes.\n12 Q. And she showed you this document; is that correct?\n13 A. No.\n14 Q. I'm saying on direct right now she showed you this\n15 document?\n16 A. Yes.\n17 Q. Right?\n18 A. Yes.\n19 Q. Asked you to read it, correct?\n20 A. Correct.\n21 Q. Could you take a look at the document for me please, again.\n22 You've never seen it before you said, correct?\n23 A. Correct.\n24 Q. You have no idea whether it's accurate or not, correct?\n25 A. Correct.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross\n1 Q. Could you tell me where in the document you see the name\n2 Miles Guo?\n3 A. I see the name who?\n4 Q. Miles Guo.\n5 A. No.\n6 Q. How about May Guo?\n7 A. No.\n8 Q. How about wife of Miles Guo?\n9 A. No.\n10 Q. How about daughter of Miles Guo?\n11 A. No.\n12 Q. How about staff of Miles Guo?\n13 A. No.\n14 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, we stipulate Miles Guo is not\n15 on this document.\n16 THE COURT: All righty.\n17 Q. So she also asked you about this group called Crane\n18 Advisory, correct?\n19 A. Correct.\n20 Q. When you met with the prosecutors on Friday, did she ask\n21 you about Crane Advisory?\n22 A. No.\n23 Q. Because you don't know anything about Crane, right?\n24 A. Correct.\n25 Q. And obviously you don't know anything about Hamilton\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross\n1 Opportunity Fund, correct?\n2 A. Correct.\n3 Q. And the only thing you know on here are the people that you\n4 worked with, correct?\n5 A. The two attorneys.\n6 Q. Right?\n7 A. Correct.\n8 Q. And that's Lawall & Mitchell, right?\n9 A. Yes, McDonnell Whitaker and Buck Esquire. I don't know\n10 Buck Esquire personally, but I know the name.\n11 Q. So we can take that down, please.\n12 Now, if I could just go to Government Exhibit 1100,\n13 and if I could just have you look -- could I have it made\n14 bigger, please. Thank you so much. Could you tell the jury\n15 who generated this document?\n16 A. The listing agent, the sellers agent.\n17 Q. And what's a listing agent?\n18 A. The listing agent represents the seller.\n19 Q. And where is this document made public, who sees it?\n20 A. This was made public via New Jersey multiple listing\n21 service.\n22 Q. Like if somebody wants to buy a house, they see it?\n23 A. Correct.\n24 Q. And is it like advertisement come by my house kind of\n25 thing?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross\n1 A. Sure. It notifies the public that the home is on the\n2 market.\n3 Q. And it tries to sell the home, right?\n4 A. Correct.\n5 Q. It highlights the plus points of the property, correct?\n6 A. Correct.\n7 Q. And if you can avoid it, and if it's not required by law,\n8 you don't necessarily publish the minus parts of the property,\n9 correct?\n10 MS. MURRAY: Objection, calls for speculation.\n11 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n12 A. Can you repeat that.\n13 Q. Sure. And if it's not called for by the law, the\n14 disclosure is not called for by the law, you don't necessarily\n15 highlight the negative aspect of a property, correct?\n16 A. I mean if there's something negative, I mean, you need to\n17 disclose what's on the property. I really don't understand\n18 what you're asking.\n19 Q. So say if the third bedroom didn't get any sunlight, you\n20 wouldn't put it on this report, right?\n21 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor, same basis.\n22 THE COURT: Overruled.\n23 Q. You wouldn't put that on --\n24 A. It's not a highlight of the house, so you wouldn't put that\n25 on there.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross\n1 Q. So you put the highlights of the house on that listing,\n2 right?\n3 A. Correct.\n4 Q. So let's just scroll down for a minute, and could we keep\n5 going down, please. And here is the description of the\n6 property, correct?\n7 A. Correct.\n8 Q. And you did not prepare this, right?\n9 A. No, I did not prepare it.\n10 Q. And in talking to you about this property, the government\n11 counsel also ask you about a second property, correct?\n12 A. Correct.\n13 Q. And that was at Hyde Park?\n14 A. Correct, Hyde Park, New York.\n15 Q. Was that the name of the property or the place?\n16 A. That's the town.\n17 Q. And do you know the name of that property sitting here\n18 today? Do you remember it?\n19 A. Ledge something, and I can't remember.\n20 Q. Do you know which of the two properties was more expensive?\n21 A. Ledge.\n22 Q. Ledge was more expensive. The Hyde Park property was more\n23 expensive than this one?\n24 A. Correct.\n25 Q. Can you please keep scrolling down and keep going. If I\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross\n1 could just have that made larger. Could I ask you, is this\n2 like a standard contract?\n3 A. The National Association of Realtors, this is the contract\n4 that realtors put together when you start negotiating a\n5 transaction.\n6 Q. And you use the standard format, right?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. And if we could scroll down to the signature line, and it's\n9 signed here, right?\n10 A. Yes.\n11 Q. And it's signed on the left side by the seller of Crocker\n12 Mansion Estate LLC, right?\n13 A. Yes.\n14 Q. And who's that?\n15 A. The seller.\n16 Q. Yeah, but who is Crocker Mansion Estate, LLC?\n17 A. That's the seller's LLC.\n18 Q. You don't know who it is, right?\n19 Is there a Mr. and Mrs. Crocker Mansion Estate LLC?\n20 A. No.\n21 Q. And the buyer is whom here?\n22 A. Taurus Fund SP.\n23 Q. And you received this document obviously cause you E-signed\n24 it below, right?\n25 A. Correct.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross\n1 Q. And for all your purposes, the buyer is Taurus Fund SP,\n2 correct?\n3 A. Correct.\n4 Q. It's not Miles Guo, right?\n5 A. It's Taurus Fund SP.\n6 Q. And it's not Miles Guo, correct?\n7 A. I don't know who it is. I didn't ask. I just prepare the\n8 contract and it goes to the attorneys.\n9 Q. Right. But it doesn't say Taurus, Miles Guo, right?\n10 MS. MURRAY: Asked and answered.\n11 THE COURT: Sustained.\n12 A. It says Taurus Fund SP. I don't know who's included in the\n13 fund.\n14 Q. You knew a fund was purchasing it, correct?\n15 A. When I asked the attorney who to write the contract, I was\n16 told to put Taurus Fund SP.\n17 Q. If somebody wants to sell this property now, the only\n18 seller could be Taurus Fund SP, right?\n19 A. I'm not an attorney. I don't know. If they changed the\n20 name, I don't know.\n21 Q. I'm telling you if that document remained in place?\n22 A. Right.\n23 Q. The only person that could sell it, entity that could sell\n24 it, is the Taurus Fund SP, right?\n25 A. Right.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross\n1 Q. And you reviewed this document and sent it back to whom?\n2 A. I sent this document to -- once the buyer sells this\n3 document, then it goes to the seller to sign, and then it goes\n4 directly to the attorney.\n5 Q. Whose attorney?\n6 A. It goes to both attorneys, the sellers' attorney and the\n7 buyers' attorney.\n8 Q. And is it you who sent it to both the buyers and the\n9 sellers attorney?\n10 A. I distribute to the seller's attorney and buyer's, yes.\n11 Q. You sent it to both the seller's attorney and buyer's\n12 attorney?\n13 A. No, I think I just sent it to the buyer. Sometimes what we\n14 do if we're representing the buyer, we send it to the buyer's\n15 attorney, the listing agent who is representing the seller who\n16 then sends it to the seller's attorney, but they both get this\n17 contract.\n18 Q. And once they both get the contract, are you essentially\n19 done with your part of the job?\n20 A. Yes, the only thing -- yes, they disapprove of the contract\n21 and they put the riders together. And my only part after that\n22 is to schedule the inspections.\n23 Q. Who files the title of the property?\n24 THE COURT: All right. It is now 2:30. We're now\n25 going to take half an hour break. You may step out. Don't\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Cross\n1 discuss your testimony. we'll resume at 3:00 p.m. Remember,\n2 don't discuss the case amongst yourselves. Don't permit others\n3 to discuss it in your presence. Don't read, listen or watch\n4 anything from any source that touches on the subject of this\n5 trial.\n6 THE LAW CLERK: Jury exiting.\n7 (Jury not present)\n8 THE COURT: You may be seated. Is there anything\n9 before we resume?\n10 MS. MURRAY: Not from the government, your Honor.\n11 MS. SHROFF: No, your Honor. Thank you.\n12 (Recess)\n13\n14\n15\n16\n17\n18\n19\n20\n21\n22\n23\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - Cross\n1 (Jury not present)\n2 THE COURT: Please have the jurors brought in.\n3 (Jury present)\n4 THE COURT: Please be seated.\n5 Remember, Ms. Frosini, you're still under oath.\n6 THE WITNESS: Yes.\n7 THE COURT: You may continue the cross-examination.\n8 MS. SHROFF: Thank you, your Honor.\n9 BY MS. SHROFF:\n10 Q. Ms. Frosini, you had deep experience in the real estate\n11 market in Mahwah, correct?\n12 A. Correct.\n13 Q. And did you live yourself——I don't need an address or\n14 anything——but did you live in that vicinity?\n15 A. Yes.\n16 Q. And had you sold property there before?\n17 A. In Mahwah?\n18 Q. Yes.\n19 A. Yes.\n20 Q. And would it be fair to say in fact that you were chosen to\n21 make this sale when they identified this particular property\n22 that was of interest to them?\n23 A. Yes.\n24 Q. Is that correct?\n25 A. Yes.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - Cross\n1 MS. SHROFF: Okay. If I could just pull up just for\n2 the witness and me Defense Exhibit 60612.\n3 Q. Now do you know what the National Register of Historical\n4 Places is?\n5 A. The——again, I'm not the listing agent, but the home,\n6 because of its historic being, was registered, but I don't know\n7 into what registries.\n8 Q. And could you explain a little bit further about the\n9 historic significance of this property.\n10 MS. SHROFF: You can take that down. I'm sorry.\n11 A. Again, I'm not the listing agent so I don't have that\n12 detail.\n13 Q. Well, you familiarized yourself with the property before\n14 you marketed it, right?\n15 A. I didn't market the property. I'm not the listing agent.\n16 Q. I'm sorry. I apologize. Before you were going to sell it,\n17 correct?\n18 A. Yes, I know about——I know about Crocker Mansion, but I'm\n19 not sure, you know, which——where it's registered as far as\n20 historic value.\n21 Q. Did you know that it was registered as an historic——\n22 A. Yes, it's on the documentation that we received.\n23 MS. SHROFF: Okay. And so if I could just bring 60612\n24 back up just for the witness.\n25 Q. And if you could just peruse the document, if you will. If\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - Cross\n1 I could have you look at page 1, maybe 2, 3.\n2 Do you recognize this form?\n3 A. No, I've never seen this form.\n4 Q. I know you may not have seen it, but do you know what a\n5 National Register of Historical Places registration form is?\n6 A. I've never registered a home, historically.\n7 Q. Okay. But do you know what it means to be on the National\n8 Register of Historic Places?\n9 A. Again, I'm familiar with registered homes as far as what\n10 you can do and what you can't do when a home is registered.\n11 But I don't——I can't answer to that.\n12 Q. Okay. And do you, sitting here today, recall the many ways\n13 that this home could be used as it was registered?\n14 A. No. They had it listed as a residential home.\n15 Q. So do you remember if it was listed for more than one use?\n16 A. No. Residential.\n17 MS. SHROFF: You can take that document down.\n18 Q. So according to you, this home was only registered as a\n19 residential home; that's your——\n20 MS. MURRAY: Objection. Asked and answered.\n21 THE COURT: Sustained.\n22 Q. Do you——oh, I'm sorry.\n23 A. This was listed——\n24 Q. I think the judge sustained the objection so you don't——\n25 THE COURT: Don't answer.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - Cross\n1 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.\n2 Q. And sitting here today, Ms. Frosini, do you know if that\n3 house was in fact registered to be used as a social clubhouse?\n4 A. No. It's residential.\n5 Q. I didn't ask you if it was residential or not. My question\n6 was: Sitting here today, do you know if that house could be\n7 used as a social clubhouse?\n8 MS. MURRAY: Objection. Asked and answered.\n9 THE COURT: Sustained.\n10 Q. Did you familiarize yourself with the different uses this\n11 house could be put to before you sold it?\n12 A. No.\n13 Q. Had you been trying to sell that house before being\n14 approached by the Taurus SB Fund?\n15 A. No, before this time, no.\n16 Q. And when you started to sell——is it fair to say you wanted\n17 the house to sell?\n18 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. Mischaracterizes.\n19 Ms. Frosini is the buyer, not the seller.\n20 THE COURT: So she's not representing the seller in\n21 the transaction, she's representing the buyer. Sustained.\n22 Q. You wanted somebody to buy the home, right?\n23 A. I'm not the listing agent, so the seller wants the house to\n24 sell. I represented the buyer, not the listing——not the\n25 seller. I didn't represent the seller.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - Cross\n1 Q. Okay. You represented the buyer, right?\n2 A. Correct.\n3 Q. Do you make any money if the house is bought?\n4 A. Yes. The broker gets a commission.\n5 Q. Right. So if you're representing the buyer, you still want\n6 the house to be bought, right?\n7 A. That's our business.\n8 Q. Exactly. How else are you going to make money, right?\n9 A. Correct.\n10 Q. Okay. And you wanted to make sure that the buyer went\n11 ahead and bought, right?\n12 A. I want the buyer to buy a house, if not from me, if it's\n13 right for the buyer.\n14 Q. And also it's good for you, right?\n15 A. I can't answer the——my focus is on my clients, on my\n16 sellers and my buyers and what's best for them. I'm not\n17 looking at my pocket. This is my work, but I don't look at my\n18 pocket. I do the best for my sellers and buyers.\n19 Q. Okay. And when you want to make sure that you want to do\n20 the best for your buyer, you want to make sure you have all the\n21 information about the property, correct?\n22 A. Correct.\n23 Q. You want to be accurate about what the buyer can put the\n24 property to use for, correct?\n25 A. Correct, but I'm showing it as a residential home.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - Cross\n1 Q. You think you're selling it as a residential home, correct?\n2 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, objection. Again,\n3 mischaracterizes as the seller.\n4 THE COURT: So——\n5 MS. SHROFF: I'll rephrase, your Honor.\n6 THE COURT: Yes.\n7 Q. The buyer did not ask to see a residential home, correct;\n8 the buyer asked to see a specific property?\n9 THE COURT: You may answer.\n10 A. The home is listed on——as a residential. It says it on the\n11 MLS, home. The buyer asked to see the two homes, yes.\n12 Q. The buyer asked to see the two properties.\n13 A. The two properties, yes.\n14 Q. Correct? Never said homes, said properties, correct?\n15 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. The witness is\n16 testifying, not Ms. Shroff.\n17 THE COURT: So you can ask her whether the buyer used\n18 the word \"home\" or \"property.\"\n19 Q. The buyer used the word \"properties,\" correct?\n20 A. I don't remember.\n21 Q. Okay. And let me show you again what is marked as Defense\n22 Exhibit 60612 just for identification.\n23 MS. SHROFF: And if I could go to page 3 of 4.\n24 Your Honor, actually, could I just have one moment,\n25 please.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - Cross\n1 THE COURT: Yes, go ahead.\n2 Q. And do you recall if this property was called Crocker\n3 McMillin Mansion/Immaculate Conception Seminary?\n4 MS. SHROFF: You can take that down, please.\n5 A. I personally never saw that.\n6 Q. And sitting here today, do you know if various people have\n7 visited that property and that it was part of the marketing,\n8 that it was visited by certain people?\n9 A. I don't——I didn't represent it for the seller so I don't\n10 know who they showed the house to.\n11 Q. Okay. So because you're representing the buyer, you\n12 weren't really trying to sell, quote-unquote, the property,\n13 correct?\n14 A. I wasn't marketing it. I was working for the buyer, and if\n15 the buyer wanted the property, then absolutely, I, you know,\n16 helped the buyer purchase the property.\n17 Q. Fair enough. And do you know if the seller had ever\n18 marketed it as a place that made it clear it could be used as a\n19 social clubhouse?\n20 MS. MURRAY: Objection, your Honor. How would\n21 Ms. Frosini know that?\n22 MS. SHROFF: Because she would interact with the\n23 seller, and the seller's agent.\n24 THE COURT: You may answer the question.\n25 A. The seller, you know, I don't know what he did with the\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - Direct\n1 house.\n2 Q. Fair enough.\n3 MS. SHROFF: Thank you. I have nothing further.\n4 THE COURT: Redirect?\n5 MS. MURRAY: Thank you, your Honor.\n6 REDIRECT EXAMINATION\n7 BY MS. MURRAY:\n8 Q. Ms. Frosini, you were asked some questions on\n9 cross-examination about the Taurus Fund. Do you recall those?\n10 A. Yes.\n11 Q. Who told you that the purchasing entity of the Crocker\n12 Mansion was the Taurus Fund SB?\n13 A. Aaron Mitchell.\n14 Q. And what individuals did Aaron Mitchell introduce you to in\n15 connection with the purchase of the Crocker Mansion?\n16 A. The Guo family.\n17 MS. MURRAY: Ms. Loftus, if we could please pull up\n18 Government Exhibit 1101 at page 8.\n19 Q. Focusing on the first Aaron Mitchell text, Ms. Frosini,\n20 this is a question regarding the purchasing entity for the\n21 Crocker Mansion; is that correct?\n22 MS. SHROFF: Objection, your Honor. Beyond the scope.\n23 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n24 A. What——Aaron said he needed to check to see who was going to\n25 be, yes, the purchasing entity.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 FROSINI - RECROSS\n1 Q. And do you know with whom, if anyone, in the UK Aaron\n2 Mitchell checked to find out the name of the purchasing entity?\n3 A. No.\n4 MS. MURRAY: Thank you, your Honor. Nothing further.\n5 MS. SHROFF: May I, your Honor?\n6 THE COURT: You may.\n7 MS. SHROFF: Could you put that back up, please.\n8 Thank you.\n9 Can we make it larger.\n10 RECROSS EXAMINATION\n11 BY MS. SHROFF:\n12 Q. You're texting back and forth with Aaron Mitchell, correct?\n13 A. Correct.\n14 Q. \"Aaron, please call me. Thx.\" That's you texting?\n15 A. Yes.\n16 Q. And then he texts you back, correct?\n17 A. Correct.\n18 Q. December 1, 2021?\n19 A. Correct.\n20 Q. At 5:47 p.m.?\n21 A. Correct.\n22 Q. \"Need to speak to someone in UK re: purchasing entity.\"\n23 A. That's what Aaron said.\n24 Q. What's an entity?\n25 A. Because I had asked——\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - Redirect\n1 Q. What's an entity?\n2 A. Entity who's purchasing the property, the home.\n3 Q. It's not a person, correct?\n4 A. The——correct.\n5 Q. It's not an individual, correct?\n6 A. Correct.\n7 Q. And he says, \"Will get back to you tomorrow am,\" and he's\n8 going to talk to someone in the UK?\n9 A. Yes, correct.\n10 Q. And you say, \"Thanks Aaron,\" correct?\n11 A. Correct.\n12 Q. Nothing further from you on that topic, correct?\n13 A. Correct.\n14 Q. No question who's the entity, correct?\n15 A. Correct.\n16 Q. Nothing at all about the purchasing entity, correct?\n17 A. Correct.\n18 MS. SHROFF: Nothing further.\n19 MS. MURRAY: Just briefly, your Honor.\n20 REDIRECT EXAMINATION\n21 BY MS. MURRAY:\n22 Q. Ms. Frosini, do you know where William Je lives?\n23 A. William Je?\n24 MS. SHROFF: Objection. Beyond the scope.\n25 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer it.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. Excuse me. Who?\n2 Q. William Je.\n3 A. No.\n4 MS. MURRAY: Thank you. Nothing further.\n5 MS. SHROFF: I have one more question, your Honor.\n6 RECROSS EXAMINATION\n7 BY MS. SHROFF:\n8 Q. Do you even know who William Je is?\n9 A. No.\n10 MS. SHROFF: All right. Thank you.\n11 THE COURT: All righty. So you may step out. Thank\n12 you.\n13 THE WITNESS: Thank you.\n14 THE COURT: And the government may call its next\n15 witness.\n16 (Witness excused)\n17 MR. FINKEL: The government calls Limarie Reyes.\n18 THE LAW CLERK: Would you please raise your right\n19 hand.\n20 (Witness sworn)\n21 THE LAW CLERK: Thank you.\n22 THE COURT: All righty. Please be seated. And bring\n23 the microphone very close to your mouth so that we can hear\n24 you. Speak up. Say your name and spell it.\n25 THE WITNESS: My name is Limarie Reyes, spelled\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 L-I-M-A-R-I-E, R-E——\n2 THE COURT: So I'm having trouble hearing you, so you\n3 really have to bring the microphone all the way to your mouth\n4 and speak loud, into the microphone.\n5 THE WITNESS: My name is Limarie Reyes, spelled\n6 L-I-M-A-R-I-E, R-E-Y-E-S.\n7 THE COURT: You may inquire.\n8 MR. FINKEL: Thank you, your Honor.\n9 LIMARIE REYES,\n10 called as a witness by the Government,\n11 having been duly sworn, testified as follows:\n12 DIRECT EXAMINATION\n13 BY MR. FINKEL:\n14 Q. Good afternoon.\n15 A. Good afternoon.\n16 Q. What area of the country do you live in?\n17 A. Puerto Rico.\n18 Q. Where do you currently work?\n19 A. I've been unemployed. I'm working right now in my business\n20 for events.\n21 Q. For what?\n22 A. Event planning.\n23 Q. What's the name of that business?\n24 A. Sprinkle Events.\n25 Q. What kind of events does Sprinkle Events plan?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. We do kids' parties, birthday parties, small corporate\n2 events as well.\n3 Q. How many employees does Sprinkle Events have?\n4 A. Just me.\n5 Q. How many events has Sprinkle Events planned?\n6 A. Roughly around five.\n7 Q. And you said kids' parties. How old are the children for\n8 the parties?\n9 A. One year, mainly, and 10.\n10 Q. How long have you worked at——or had Sprinkle Events?\n11 A. Since November.\n12 Q. What's the approximate budget of the events at Sprinkle\n13 Events, for those five events?\n14 A. Roughly around 2500.\n15 Q. Now you said before Sprinkle Events that you were\n16 unemployed for a bit?\n17 A. Yes.\n18 Q. Before that, where did you work?\n19 A. I worked at G/CLUBS.\n20 Q. And what was your role at G/CLUBS?\n21 A. Changed over time. I started as VP of marketing and\n22 events; later on I became the interim CEO and later the CEO.\n23 THE COURT: So I'll need you to just get very close to\n24 the microphone so that everyone in the courtroom can hear you.\n25 Q. When did you start at G/CLUBS, approximately?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. December 2020.\n2 Q. And what was your title when you started?\n3 A. VP of marketing and events.\n4 Q. And when did you become, you said, the interim CEO?\n5 A. Around February 2021.\n6 Q. And when did you become the CEO?\n7 A. Around summer 2021.\n8 Q. Ms. Reyes, as the CEO of G/CLUBS, did you have final\n9 decision-making authority on all matters concerning G/CLUBS?\n10 A. No, I did not.\n11 Q. Were you in charge of G Club?\n12 A. No, I was not.\n13 Q. As part of your role as CEO, did you get updated on the\n14 revenues, the monthly revenues of G/CLUBS?\n15 A. Not on a regular basis, no.\n16 Q. Did you set the budget at G/CLUBS?\n17 A. No.\n18 Q. As the CEO of G/CLUBS, who did you report to?\n19 A. I reported to the ultimate beneficial owner, UBO, Mr. He.\n20 THE COURT: Okay. So your voice is very low, and I\n21 need for you to speak up because the reporter here is writing\n22 down what you say, and also all the people in the back row,\n23 they need to hear you, so speak loudly.\n24 THE WITNESS: Sorry.\n25 Q. Who did you report to? When you were the CEO of G/CLUBS,\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 who did you report to?\n2 A. Mr. He.\n3 Q. What was his first name?\n4 A. Haoran He.\n5 Q. How do you spell He?\n6 A. H-E.\n7 Q. Did you report to anybody else?\n8 A. Yes, I reported to Yvette as well.\n9 Q. What's her last name?\n10 A. Wang.\n11 Q. When did you leave G/CLUBS?\n12 A. March 2023.\n13 Q. So in total, Ms. Reyes, how long were you the interim and\n14 CEO of G/CLUBS?\n15 A. I was with G/CLUBS around two and a half years.\n16 Q. And what was your understanding of what G/CLUBS was\n17 supposed to be?\n18 A. It was a membership club that provided benefits to its\n19 members.\n20 Q. Was G/CLUBS a political organization?\n21 A. No.\n22 Q. How much did it cost to become a G/CLUBS member?\n23 A. It depended on the different tiers. It would range from\n24 $10,000 to $50,000, depending on the tier.\n25 Q. And how many tiers were there?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. Five.\n2 Q. How much did each tier cost?\n3 A. Tier 1 was 10,000; tier 2, 20,000; tier 3, 30,000; tier 4,\n4 40,000; tier 5, 50,000.\n5 Q. Was there a yearly fee for membership?\n6 A. Yes. So after the initial fee, the yearly fee was\n7 5 percent of their tier.\n8 Q. And if a member didn't pay their yearly fee, what happened\n9 to their membership?\n10 A. It would get inactivated.\n11 Q. And if it was inactivated, could the member use the\n12 benefits that G/CLUBS provided?\n13 A. No.\n14 Q. Ms. Reyes, did G/CLUBS provide its members stock in\n15 G/CLUBS?\n16 A. No, it did not.\n17 Q. Did G/CLUBS provide its members stock in G Fashion?\n18 A. No.\n19 Q. Did G/CLUBS provide its members stock in any company?\n20 A. No.\n21 Q. Was G/CLUBS an investment club?\n22 A. No.\n23 MR. FINKEL: Ms. Loftus, if we can please display\n24 what's in evidence as GX C160-V. Go to 11:35.\n25 Q. Ms. Reyes, do you recognize the individual on your screen?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. Yes.\n2 Q. Who is it?\n3 A. Mr. Guo.\n4 Q. What's his first name?\n5 A. Miles Guo.\n6 Q. Do you know him by any other names?\n7 A. Kwok.\n8 Q. How do you spell that?\n9 A. K-W-O-K? I'm not sure.\n10 Q. Did people that you worked with at G/CLUBS and yourself\n11 call Miles Guo by any other titles?\n12 A. I've heard Boss, principal.\n13 MR. FINKEL: Ms. Loftus, you can play that, please.\n14 (Video played)\n15 MR. FINKEL: Pause right there.\n16 Q. Ms. Reyes, is what Mr. Guo just said, that if you get a\n17 $50,000 membership with G Club you get G Fashion stocks, true?\n18 A. No.\n19 Q. Do you see Mr. Guo in the courtroom here today?\n20 A. Yes.\n21 Q. Can you point him out——\n22 MR. KAMARAJU: We'll stipulate to identity, your\n23 Honor.\n24 THE COURT: All righty. Go ahead.\n25 Q. Is it true that memberships at G Club were limited, that\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 there was only certain space available?\n2 A. No.\n3 MR. FINKEL: You can take that down.\n4 Q. At the time that you were working at G/CLUBS, had you seen\n5 that video that we just watched here in court?\n6 A. Not that I recall, no.\n7 Q. When you were the CEO of G/CLUBS, Ms. Reyes, did there come\n8 a time when you became aware that G/CLUBS members expected to\n9 receive stock?\n10 A. Yes, there was a time.\n11 THE COURT: All right. I have to remind you to keep\n12 your voice up so that the jury and the rest of us can hear your\n13 testimony.\n14 Q. You can move the microphone as close to you as you like.\n15 Feel free to move it to make yourself comfortable. Try to\n16 speak directly into the mic, okay?\n17 Ms. Reyes, what was your understanding as to why\n18 G/CLUBS members expected, or some of them expected to receive\n19 stock when they purchased a G/CLUBS membership?\n20 MR. KAMARAJU: Objection.\n21 THE COURT: Overruled.\n22 Q. You can answer.\n23 A. Could you repeat the question. Sorry.\n24 Q. What was your understanding as to why some G/CLUBS members\n25 expected to receive stock when they purchased a G/CLUBS\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 membership?\n2 A. There had been a video where Mr. Guo had mentioned that\n3 they would get stock.\n4 Q. Ms. Reyes, when you were the CEO of G/CLUBS, when did you\n5 tell Mr. Guo that he shouldn't say that G/CLUBS members receive\n6 stock?\n7 MR. KAMARAJU: Objection. Lack of foundation.\n8 THE COURT: All righty. So let's take it a little\n9 slower.\n10 MR. FINKEL: Sure.\n11 Q. Ms. Reyes, did there come a time, if ever, when you were\n12 the CEO of G/CLUBS where you told Mr. Guo to not say in videos\n13 that G/CLUBS members receive stock?\n14 A. No, I did not.\n15 Q. Why didn't you say that to him?\n16 A. I didn't feel I had the authority to say that to him.\n17 Q. What do you mean you didn't feel like you had the authority\n18 to say that to Mr. Guo?\n19 A. I didn't view myself as a person to say that. I would rely\n20 on the owner, not me.\n21 Q. Who's that?\n22 A. Mr. He.\n23 Q. We'll go back to G/CLUBS in a moment.\n24 Ms. Reyes, are you testifying here pursuant to an\n25 agreement with the government?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. Yes.\n2 Q. And what type of agreement, or what is that agreement\n3 called?\n4 A. Nonprosecution agreement.\n5 Q. And what is your understanding of what your obligations are\n6 under that nonprosecution agreement?\n7 A. I have to tell the truth, provide information when asked,\n8 attend meetings, testify if requested, and not commit crimes.\n9 Q. And if you meet your obligations under the nonprosecution\n10 agreement, what has the government promised to do for you?\n11 A. Not charge with any crimes during my time in G/CLUBS.\n12 Q. I didn't hear the last part.\n13 A. During my time in G/CLUBS.\n14 THE COURT: So maybe if you just get so close to the\n15 microphone that you're almost touching it. Get very close.\n16 MR. FINKEL: You can move the microphone. It's okay.\n17 All right? You can move it.\n18 Q. Aside from the nonprosecution agreement covering you for\n19 your conduct at G/CLUBS, does it cover you for anything else?\n20 A. Sorry. Could you repeat that.\n21 Q. Sure. You said the nonprosecution agreement, if you meet\n22 what you have to do under it, the government won't charge you\n23 for your work when you worked at G/CLUBS. Aside from that, is\n24 there anything else that the government won't charge you for?\n25 A. No.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. If you lie here today, what would happen to your\n2 nonprosecution agreement?\n3 A. It would get canceled, null.\n4 Q. And if you lie here today, could you be charged for\n5 perjury?\n6 A. Yes.\n7 Q. And the statements that you provided to the government in\n8 the past, could those be used against you if your\n9 nonprosecution agreement is torn up?\n10 A. I believe so.\n11 Q. How many times have you met with the government in advance\n12 of your testimony today, approximately?\n13 A. I would say more than ten.\n14 Q. Ms. Reyes, does the outcome of this trial or any trial have\n15 any impact on whether your nonprosecution agreement gets torn\n16 up or not?\n17 MR. KAMARAJU: Objection to form.\n18 Q. I'll rephrase it. Withdrawn.\n19 Does the outcome of this trial have any impact on your\n20 nonprosecution agreement?\n21 A. No.\n22 Q. Who's Steve Weber?\n23 A. Steve Weber is the recruiting person that interviewed me\n24 for my role in G/CLUBS.\n25 Q. And after you interviewed with Steve Weber who, if anyone,\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 did you interview with?\n2 A. I interviewed with Jessica and Yvette.\n3 MR. FINKEL: Can we please display what's in evidence\n4 as Government Exhibit 102.\n5 Q. Ms. Reyes, who is depicted in Government Exhibit 102?\n6 A. Yvette.\n7 Q. What questions did Yvette ask you during your interview for\n8 G/CLUBS?\n9 A. She asked me about my history and my past jobs, my event\n10 experiences, what I——what I had done prior.\n11 Q. Ms. Reyes, what languages do you speak?\n12 A. Spanish and English.\n13 Q. Do you speak Mandarin?\n14 A. No.\n15 Q. Did Ms. Wang ask you if you spoke Mandarin?\n16 A. Not that I recall.\n17 Q. Did Yvette ask you about your political beliefs?\n18 A. Not that I recall.\n19 Q. Did she ask you about the Chinese Communist Party?\n20 A. Not that I recall.\n21 Q. Did she ask you your position, if any, on democracy in\n22 China?\n23 A. Not that I recall.\n24 Q. What is your position, if any, on the Chinese Communist\n25 Party?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. I don't have a position.\n2 Q. Do you follow Chinese politics?\n3 A. No.\n4 Q. Would you say you're familiar with Chinese culture?\n5 A. No.\n6 Q. Did Yvette mention anything during your interview about the\n7 New Federal State of China?\n8 A. Not that I recall.\n9 Q. Are you a member of the New Federal State of China?\n10 A. No.\n11 Q. Did Yvette mention that G/CLUBS had anything to do with the\n12 whistleblower movement during your interview?\n13 A. Not that I recall.\n14 MR. FINKEL: If we can display what's been marked for\n15 identification as GX BR470, just for the witness, please.\n16 Go to the next page, please.\n17 Next page.\n18 Take that down for a second.\n19 One moment, please.\n20 BY MR. FINKEL:\n21 Q. Ms. Reyes, in connection with your interview with Yvette,\n22 did Yvette mention someone named Victor?\n23 A. Sorry. During my——\n24 Q. In connection with your interview for G/CLUBS, before you\n25 were hired with Yvette, did Yvette mention someone named\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 Victor?\n2 A. Not during the interview, but through the——the different\n3 communications, yes.\n4 Q. And who was Victor?\n5 A. At the time I didn't know, but later on I learned that he's\n6 an attorney.\n7 Q. What's his last name?\n8 A. Cerda.\n9 MR. FINKEL: Can you please display what's in evidence\n10 as GX 109.\n11 Q. Who is this individual in GX 109?\n12 A. Victor.\n13 Q. Why did Yvette mention Victor during your interview process\n14 with G/CLUBS; do you know?\n15 A. I don't know.\n16 MR. KAMARAJU: Objection to form.\n17 THE COURT: Sustained. How can she possibly know\n18 what's in the mind of Yvette?\n19 Q. Did Yvette say anything about why she mentioned Victor in\n20 the context of your interview for G/CLUBS?\n21 A. That he might be reaching out.\n22 Q. For what?\n23 A. Interview.\n24 Q. After interviewing with Yvette, were you hired?\n25 A. Yes, I was hired.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. In what role?\n2 A. VP of marketing and events.\n3 Q. And what was your salary when you started at G/CLUBS?\n4 A. Roughly around 100,000.\n5 Q. And the job you were working at before G/CLUBS, what were\n6 you doing at that job?\n7 A. Events manager.\n8 Q. What was your salary at that prior job?\n9 A. Around 60,000.\n10 Q. When you started, Ms. Reyes, where were G/CLUBS' offices\n11 located?\n12 A. When I started, it was a co-working space, and later then\n13 we got our office space in San Juan.\n14 Q. And the co-working space was where?\n15 A. San Juan.\n16 Q. Puerto Rico?\n17 A. Correct.\n18 Q. How many employees were there when you started at the\n19 co-working space in San Juan, Puerto Rico?\n20 A. Just me.\n21 Q. What was your understanding, if any, about why G/CLUBS was\n22 based in Puerto Rico?\n23 A. To my understanding was to benefit from the tax incentives.\n24 Q. When you were working at G/CLUBS, Ms. Reyes, how were you\n25 paid?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. Via direct deposit.\n2 Q. And did G/CLUBS provide health insurance?\n3 A. Yes.\n4 Q. Was there a payroll system?\n5 A. Yes.\n6 Q. And when you were at G/CLUBS, did you believe it was a\n7 legitimate business?\n8 A. Yes.\n9 Q. Did you believe you were committing any crimes?\n10 A. No.\n11 Q. Were there other employees hired after you?\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. During your time at G/CLUBS, approximately how many\n14 employees were there? What was the range?\n15 A. 14.\n16 Q. And you said that you moved from the co-working space to\n17 another office; is that correct?\n18 A. Yes.\n19 Q. And where was that other office located?\n20 A. San Juan as well.\n21 Q. And where? Was it an office building? Can you describe\n22 what the office was like.\n23 A. Yes, it was an office building in San Juan area. It was a\n24 floor. It had views to the ocean.\n25 Q. Did there come times while you were employed at G/CLUBS\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 where the cable or internet would go out?\n2 A. Yes.\n3 Q. And what would the employees say, if anything, when that\n4 would happen?\n5 A. They would joke about it was the CCP.\n6 Q. It was what?\n7 A. The CCP.\n8 Q. Why would employees joke that it was the CCP when the\n9 internet went out?\n10 A. Because we had heard that many things were due to the CCP.\n11 Q. Do you believe the CCP put the cable out at G/CLUBS?\n12 MR. KAMARAJU: Objection.\n13 THE COURT: Overruled. You may say what you believe.\n14 Q. You can answer.\n15 A. I don't know.\n16 Q. As far as you know, when did G/CLUBS start? Do you know a\n17 date?\n18 A. 2020.\n19 Q. And you mentioned Haoran He; is that correct?\n20 A. Yes.\n21 Q. What was your understanding of his role at G/CLUBS?\n22 A. The ultimate beneficial owner.\n23 MR. FINKEL: If we can please display what's been\n24 marked for identification as GX 112.\n25 Q. Do you recognize the individual depicted in GX 112?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. Yes.\n2 Q. Who is it?\n3 A. Mr. He.\n4 MR. FINKEL: Government offers 112.\n5 MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.\n6 THE COURT: It is admitted.\n7 (Government's Exhibit 112 received in evidence)\n8 Q. Ms. Reyes, in what manner did you communicate with Mr. He?\n9 A. I communicated with him via email, WhatsApp, and voice\n10 calls.\n11 Q. What was his email address, Mr. He's email address?\n12 A. Coolhhr@protonmail.com.\n13 Q. What is Proton Mail?\n14 A. The email base that he used.\n15 Q. What was your email address at G/CLUBS?\n16 A. Lreyes@gclubs.com.\n17 Q. Why did your email address end at gclubs.com but Mr. He had\n18 a Proton Mail address?\n19 MR. KAMARAJU: Objection to form.\n20 THE COURT: I'll permit the question.\n21 Q. You can answer.\n22 A. I don't know.\n23 Q. The other employees you worked with in Puerto Rico, did\n24 they have Proton email addresses or G/CLUBS email addresses?\n25 A. G/CLUBS.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. What was your understanding of where Mr. He was located?\n2 A. Where did he live?\n3 Q. Yeah.\n4 A. In the UK.\n5 Q. Did Mr. He ever visit the office in Puerto Rico?\n6 A. No.\n7 Q. How many times had you met Mr. He in person?\n8 A. Twice.\n9 Q. How frequently would you speak with Mr. He when you were\n10 the interim and CEO of G/CLUBS?\n11 A. It would depend on the task. Not frequently, just——as per\n12 his request.\n13 Q. What sort of tasks did Mr. He assign you?\n14 A. Different tasks. It would vary from requesting to do\n15 loan——loan agreements, or reaching out to potential partners,\n16 supporting documents for banking.\n17 Q. What do you mean by loan agreements?\n18 A. A request would come to do a——a loan for some specifics,\n19 and we would create the——the package of the different\n20 documents.\n21 Q. Who would the requests for a loan come from?\n22 A. Depending. It could come from Mr. He, sometimes Yvette.\n23 Q. Did you ever decide to make loans?\n24 A. No, I did not.\n25 Q. What entities, if any, did G/CLUBS send loans to?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. It would be G Club Operations to G Club International BVI.\n2 Q. Did G/CLUBS make any loans to any people?\n3 A. There was one that was to an individual, yes.\n4 Q. What was the name of that individual that G/CLUBS sent a\n5 loan to?\n6 A. Mileson.\n7 Q. Who is Mileson?\n8 A. Mr. Guo's son.\n9 Q. Approximately how many loans did Mr. He request that you\n10 help facilitate?\n11 A. Not exactly sure, but more than five.\n12 Q. What was the total dollar amount of loans that Mr. He\n13 requested you help facilitate?\n14 A. I don't remember specifically.\n15 Q. Approximately how much?\n16 A. I would say in the millions.\n17 Q. How many millions?\n18 A. Maybe more than a hundred.\n19 Q. More than a hundred million?\n20 A. Yes.\n21 Q. How did Mr. He treat you when you were an employee of\n22 G/CLUBS?\n23 A. It would depend, but there were——there were instances where\n24 he would raise his voice. There were some times that I felt\n25 not valued. He would say that \"you Puerto Ricans are slow.\"\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. What did Mr. He complain that you were being slow about?\n2 A. Different tasks, but it was a——it was slow.\n3 Q. You mentioned that there was a loan made to Mileson from\n4 G/CLUBS. What was your understanding, if any, about the nature\n5 of the relationship between Mr. He and Mileson?\n6 A. I knew they were college friends.\n7 MR. FINKEL: Could we put up GX 102, please,\n8 Ms. Loftus.\n9 Q. Ms. Reyes, to your knowledge was Yvette on the payroll at\n10 G/CLUBS?\n11 A. No.\n12 Q. Did she have an official title at G/CLUBS?\n13 A. No.\n14 Q. What did you refer to her as and other people refer to her\n15 as at G/CLUBS?\n16 MR. KAMARAJU: Objection to form.\n17 THE COURT: So break it up, please.\n18 MR. FINKEL: I apologize.\n19 Q. What was Yvette referred to as at G/CLUBS?\n20 A. Her——her name.\n21 Q. Was she referred to by anything other than her name?\n22 A. As a representative.\n23 Q. Representative of what, or who?\n24 A. Just representative, but I viewed as representative of\n25 Mr. He.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. What sort of things did Yvette work on for G/CLUBS?\n2 A. She would provide instructions in different matters from\n3 loans to finance, but just for——for events, at some point\n4 reviewing PRF forms, different aspects, legal.\n5 Q. You mentioned loans. Same sort of loans that you talked\n6 about a moment ago with Mr. He?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. In what ways did you communicate with Yvette?\n9 A. It changed through time. Very early, it was email, then\n10 WhatsApp, then Signal, and voice calls as well.\n11 Q. How did Yvette treat you as an employee of G/CLUBS?\n12 A. She treated me well. It was when things were not\n13 necessarily——we had recommendations different that it could\n14 become a little bit tense.\n15 Q. What is an issue that became tense with Yvette?\n16 A. I do recall there was a time that there had been a request\n17 to transfer some funds and the recommendation was not to do so,\n18 and it was tense in that way. There was a time where——\n19 THE COURT: One moment. Whose recommendation was not\n20 to do so and who made the request?\n21 THE WITNESS: So legal recommendation was not to do\n22 so.\n23 THE COURT: When you say legal, do you mean an\n24 attorney?\n25 THE WITNESS: Counsel, yes.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead. And who made the\n2 request?\n3 THE WITNESS: Yvette in this case.\n4 BY MR. FINKEL:\n5 Q. And the attorney who recommended not to do the transfer,\n6 that attorney was in-house counsel at G/CLUBS?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. And when you relayed that recommendation to Yvette, what\n9 was her response?\n10 A. That we would have to do it and——not the exact words, but\n11 like if we didn't do it, it was like——it was on me, like it was\n12 my fault if something went wrong.\n13 Q. How much money was that transfer?\n14 A. To the best of my recollection, around 5 million.\n15 Q. Where was that transfer to?\n16 A. To a bank. I'm not sure which one.\n17 Q. How did that make you feel when Yvette said that if you\n18 don't do the transfer, it would be on you?\n19 A. I felt that it was unfair.\n20 Q. Why?\n21 A. Because I was relaying the suggestion from——from counsel,\n22 and I understood that to be——I'd rely on their advice.\n23 Q. Did you ask Yvette any questions about why this transfer\n24 would be on you if it didn't go through?\n25 A. No, I don't recall that.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. Did you ask Yvette any questions about why this transfer\n2 should happen even though counsel said it shouldn't?\n3 A. I do not recall.\n4 Q. Did you ask any questions about whether we could wait,\n5 G/CLUBS could wait to do the transfer another time?\n6 A. No, I——I do recall that was the instruction.\n7 Q. When you got instructions from Yvette, did you generally\n8 ask her many questions?\n9 A. No.\n10 Q. When you got instructions from Mr. He, did you generally\n11 ask him any questions?\n12 A. No.\n13 Q. The transfer you were just speaking about a moment ago with\n14 Yvette, did you go through with it? Did you process it?\n15 A. Ultimately, yes.\n16 Q. Did Yvette express to you——well, withdrawn.\n17 MR. FINKEL: We can take that down, Ms. Loftus. And\n18 if we could display for the witness what's been marked for\n19 identification as GX 101.\n20 Q. Who's that?\n21 A. Mr. Guo.\n22 MR. FINKEL: Government offers 101.\n23 MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.\n24 THE COURT: It is admitted.\n25 (Government's Exhibit 101 received in evidence)\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. What was Miles Guo's title at G/CLUBS?\n2 A. He was a spokesperson for G/CLUBS.\n3 Q. And what did you understand that to mean, to be a\n4 spokesperson?\n5 A. To speak on behalf of the company.\n6 Q. On behalf of who?\n7 A. Of the company.\n8 Q. Company being?\n9 A. G/CLUBS.\n10 Q. As far as you know, how much was Miles Guo paid for his\n11 role as spokesperson of G/CLUBS?\n12 A. He was not paid.\n13 MR. FINKEL: May I approach, your Honor.\n14 THE COURT: You may.\n15 MR. FINKEL: Handing the witness a binder.\n16 Q. And Ms. Reyes, if you could take a look at that binder and\n17 flip through it.\n18 MR. FINKEL: And your Honor, I'll represent that that\n19 binder contains the following Government Exhibits, which have\n20 been marked for identification: GX 1850, GX 1850A; and then\n21 the following exhibits in the GX GC series: GX GC3, 27, 28,\n22 33, 37, 38, 40, 43, 54, 59, 60, 93, 95; 121, 122, 197, 126,\n23 136, 150A, 150, 157, 158, 160, 168, 175, 178, 184, 187, 189,\n24 198; 209, 213, 218, 220, 221, 222, 227, 228, 233, 242, 254,\n25 276, 286, 292, 293, 299; 300, 307, 309, 317, 318, 332, 334,\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 340, 341, 346, 363, 365, 372, 376, 377, 379, 380, 382, 387,\n2 389, 392, 393; 483, 484, 485, 486, 487, 422, 423, 424, 405,\n3 406, 409, 415, 416, 418, 419, 422, 427, 428, 431, 432, 433,\n4 436, 438, 441, 443, 444, 450, 452, 453, 454, 455, 467, 470,\n5 476, 480, 484, 486, 487, 494, 495, 497; 504, 541, 517, 518,\n6 520, 521, 522, 525, 526, 527, 528, 530-534, 536-538, 540, 544,\n7 547, 549, 553, 553A, and 550.\n8 BY MR. FINKEL:\n9 Q. Ms. Reyes, would you flip through that binder.\n10 A. Yes.\n11 Q. Have you previously reviewed the contents of that binder?\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. Is there a signature on the front of the binder?\n14 A. Yes.\n15 Q. Whose signature is it?\n16 A. Mine.\n17 Q. At a high level, what are the kinds of documents in that\n18 binder?\n19 A. Emails, sent by me or received by me, loan documents.\n20 Q. From what entity?\n21 A. G/CLUBS.\n22 MR. FINKEL: The government offers those exhibits that\n23 I mentioned previously and hopefully don't have to read again,\n24 unless you'd like me to.\n25 (Counsel conferring)\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 MR. KAMARAJU: No objection, and we don't require it\n2 to be read again.\n3 THE COURT: I didn't hear. You said no objection and?\n4 MR. KAMARAJU: And we don't request that all the\n5 exhibits be read again.\n6 THE COURT: Okay. All right. So they're all\n7 admitted.\n8 MR. FINKEL: Thank you, your Honor.\n9 (Government's Exhibits 1850, 1850A received in\n10 evidence)\n11 (Government's Exhibits GC3, GC27, GC28, GC33, GC37,\n12 GC38, GC40, GC43, GC54, GC59, GC60, GC93, GC95 received in\n13 evidence)\n14 (Government's Exhibits GC121, GC122, GC197, GC126,\n15 GC136, GC150A, GC150, GC157, GC158, GC160, GC168, GC175, GC178,\n16 GC184, GC187, GC189, GC198 received in evidence)\n17 (Government's Exhibits GC209, GC213, GC218, GC220,\n18 GC221, GC222, GC227, GC228, GC233, GC242, GC254, GC276, GC286,\n19 GC292, GC293, GC299 received in evidence)\n20 (Government's Exhibits GC300, GC307, GC309, GC317,\n21 GC318, GC332, GC334, GC340, GC341, GC346, GC363, GC365, GC372,\n22 GC376, GC377, GC379, GC380, GC382, GC387, GC389, GC392, GC393\n23 received in evidence)\n24 (Government's Exhibits GC483, GC484, GC485, GC486,\n25 GC487, GC422, GC423, GC424, GC405, GC406, GC409, GC415, GC416,\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 GC418, GC419, GC422, GC427, GC428, GC431, GC432, GC433, GC436,\n2 GC438, GC441, GC443, GC444, GC450, GC452, GC453, GC454, GC455,\n3 GC467, GC470, GC476, GC480, GC484, GC486, GC487, GC494, GC495,\n4 GC497 received in evidence)\n5 (Government's Exhibits GC504, GC541, GC517, GC518,\n6 GC520, GC521, GC522, GC525, GC526, GC527, GC528, GC530-534,\n7 GC536-538, GC540, GC544, GC547, GC549, GC553, GC553A, and GC550\n8 received in evidence)\n9 BY MR. FINKEL:\n10 Q. Did Mr. Guo have a contract with G/CLUBS?\n11 A. Yes.\n12 MR. FINKEL: Okay. If we can display what's in\n13 evidence as Government Exhibit 541. GX GC541.\n14 Q. What is this document, Ms. Reyes?\n15 A. It's an agreement between G/CLUBS and Mr. Guo.\n16 Q. Okay. And it says, \"By and between Guo Wengui.\" Who do\n17 you understand that to be?\n18 A. Mr. Guo.\n19 MR. FINKEL: You can zoom out of that, please.\n20 Q. And do you see under (b) at the bottom, where it says\n21 termination by the company for cause?\n22 A. Yes.\n23 MR. FINKEL: Zoom in on that, please, Ms. Loftus.\n24 Q. Ms. Reyes, when you were the CEO of G/CLUBS, did you\n25 believe that you could fire Guo as the spokesperson for\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 G/CLUBS?\n2 MR. KAMARAJU: Objection. Calls for a legal\n3 conclusion.\n4 THE COURT: Overruled. You can say whether you\n5 believed you could fire him or not.\n6 A. I didn't feel like I could fire him.\n7 MR. FINKEL: You can zoom out of that. Go to the next\n8 page, please.\n9 And can you zoom in on paragraph 3, Ms. Loftus.\n10 Q. So here it says Consideration - Level 5 Membership. What,\n11 if anything, do you understand Guo was provided for his role as\n12 spokesperson for G/CLUBS?\n13 A. He was entitled to a membership.\n14 Q. To your knowledge did he receive anything else aside from\n15 the Level 5 membership?\n16 A. Not that I was aware.\n17 Q. Who negotiated this contract?\n18 A. I wouldn't know.\n19 Q. Who decided to make Guo the spokesperson?\n20 A. I don't know.\n21 Q. Did you ask any questions about why Guo was the\n22 spokesperson?\n23 A. No. He was already there when I started.\n24 Q. And when you started, did you ask any questions about why\n25 Guo was the spokesperson?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. No.\n2 Q. Did you ask any questions about this consulting agreement?\n3 A. No.\n4 MR. FINKEL: Ms. Loftus, can you zoom out of that and\n5 go to page 7.\n6 Okay. Take that down.\n7 Q. At the time that you were at G/CLUBS, Ms. Reyes, in what\n8 ways, if any, did G/CLUBS promote itself?\n9 A. The spokesperson was Mr. Guo, and through word of mouth,\n10 the——the farms, they would reach out to like-minded people.\n11 Q. And how did Guo as the spokesperson promote G/CLUBS, to\n12 your knowledge, at the time?\n13 A. Through his videos.\n14 Q. Did you watch his videos?\n15 A. No.\n16 Q. How many members did G/CLUBS have?\n17 A. Depending. It would increase, but by the time that I\n18 resigned, around 8,000.\n19 Q. You mentioned that another way G/CLUBS was promoted was\n20 word of mouth. Did you say through the farms?\n21 A. Yes.\n22 Q. What are the farms?\n23 A. I don't know exactly how to describe it, but it's a group\n24 of like-minded people that are located in different parts.\n25 Q. Who explained the farms to you?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. It wasn't an explanation of what they were. It was just\n2 that they——that they referenced the farms.\n3 Q. Did you ask Yvette how the farms got involved in promotion\n4 of G/CLUBS?\n5 A. Not that I recall.\n6 Q. Did you ask Mr. He how the farms got involved in the\n7 promotion of G/CLUBS?\n8 A. Not that I recall.\n9 Q. How were the farms, to your knowledge, if you know,\n10 involved in promoting G/CLUBS?\n11 A. I do not know.\n12 Q. Were you a member of a farm?\n13 A. No.\n14 Q. What is your understanding of where the 8,000 or so G/CLUBS\n15 members were located?\n16 A. They're located throughout the world.\n17 Q. And what was your understanding of what language they\n18 spoke?\n19 MR. KAMARAJU: All of them?\n20 MR. FINKEL: Yes.\n21 Q. What was your understanding, generally speaking, of the\n22 languages that the 8,000 G/CLUBS members spoke?\n23 A. Most of them Mandarin.\n24 Q. Do you believe, when you were the CEO of G/CLUBS, that you\n25 were familiar with the like-minded ideology that you mentioned\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - Direct\n1 before of the G/CLUBS members?\n2 A. If I was familiar?\n3 Q. Yeah.\n4 A. No.\n5 Q. Of the 8,000 or so G/CLUBS members, approximately how many\n6 have you spoken with?\n7 A. Maybe around seven, roughly.\n8 (Continued on next page)\n9\n10\n11\n12\n13\n14\n15\n16\n17\n18\n19\n20\n21\n22\n23\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 BY MR. FINKEL:\n2 Q. You mention that Guo was the spokesperson for G/Club, was\n3 there a disclaimer on G/Club's website about Guo?\n4 A. Yes, there was.\n5 Q. And what, at a high level, did that disclaimer say?\n6 A. Not exactly sure of the exact words, but that G/Club is not\n7 linked to the things that are said by Mr. Guo.\n8 Q. Did that disclaimer change over time?\n9 A. Yes.\n10 Q. When did it change?\n11 A. It changed after we received a subpoena.\n12 Q. Who's the \"we\" received the subpoena, who is the \"we?\"\n13 A. G/Clubs.\n14 Q. And who was the subpoena received from?\n15 A. The government.\n16 Q. If Mr. Guo is the spokesperson of G/Club, why was there a\n17 disclaimer on the website saying not to associate his\n18 statements with G/Club?\n19 A. I'm not sure. It was there. It was to my recollection\n20 when I started.\n21 Q. I'm going to ask you, Ms. Reyes, to speak loudly and\n22 clearly so everyone can hear you.\n23 Ms. Reyes, did you ask questions about the disclaimer\n24 to Yvette?\n25 A. Not that I recall.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. Did you ask questions about the disclaimer to Mr. He?\n2 A. Not that I recall.\n3 Q. Did G/Club members receive a membership card?\n4 A. Physical card, no.\n5 Q. What would they receive, if anything, to signify their\n6 membership in G/Club?\n7 A. I recall there was an email that was sent with an image of\n8 a card.\n9 Q. You mentioned the prices for G/Clubs, there was an\n10 initiation fee that ranged from 10,000 to 50,000; is that\n11 correct?\n12 A. Yes.\n13 Q. Why did you decide those prices?\n14 A. I did not decide the prices.\n15 Q. Who did?\n16 A. I don't know.\n17 Q. Did you ask any questions to Yvette about why the prices\n18 are what they are?\n19 A. No, I did not.\n20 Q. What about Mr. He?\n21 A. No, I did not.\n22 Q. You mentioned before that G/Clubs members didn't receive\n23 stock, correct?\n24 A. Yes.\n25 Q. What benefits, if any, were G/Club members, were they\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 entitled to?\n2 A. They were entitled to different benefits throughout time.\n3 Can I list them?\n4 Q. You can list them, please.\n5 A. They had discounts in G Fashion depending on their tier.\n6 There was a time where they were able to upload two hours of\n7 content to GTV. They had access to songs sung or written by\n8 Mr. Guo. They had access to a 24-7 customer service. They had\n9 access to the G talks events and sweepstakes.\n10 Q. Anything else?\n11 A. Yes. We had hotels, discounts in hotels, gyms. There was\n12 a boarding charter. We had done a private tour of FAO Schwarz.\n13 They receive Christmas gifts. We had a specialty dinner in a\n14 Michelin star restaurant. We had two hotel stays, one in Fiji\n15 and one in Australia. We had a discount at Formula One. Those\n16 are the ones that I recall.\n17 Q. How did the G Fashion discount work?\n18 A. Depending on their tier, they would receive a set discount.\n19 If it was tier one, it was 10 percent discount on their fashion\n20 item.\n21 Q. I ask you again to speak directly into the mic so everyone\n22 can hear you.\n23 If a member wanted to take advantage of the G Fashion\n24 discount, how would they do that? What was the process?\n25 A. It was done through the G Fashion platform.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. Can you explain how?\n2 A. I'm not exactly sure how.\n3 THE COURT: You said that they had access to songs\n4 that were sung or written by Mr. Guo, how would they get access\n5 to that?\n6 THE WITNESS: On the website. On the website there\n7 was a link that said G music, and they were able to see them\n8 there.\n9 THE COURT: Go ahead.\n10 Q. Who decided that G/Club members should get a F fashion\n11 discount in connection with their membership?\n12 A. I do not know.\n13 Q. Did you ask anyone why that was a membership benefit?\n14 A. No, I did not.\n15 Q. You mentioned that members could have -- did you say a\n16 stream on GTV; is that correct?\n17 A. Yes.\n18 Q. Who decided that would be a benefit for members?\n19 A. I do not know.\n20 Q. Did you ask anyone why?\n21 A. No.\n22 Q. You mentioned that there was a Christmas gift, what was the\n23 Christmas gift?\n24 A. It was a box that included a branded coffee mug, Puerto\n25 Rican coffee and cookies.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. Was that shipped?\n2 A. Yes.\n3 Q. Was it shipped to every member?\n4 A. The ones that had registered.\n5 Q. You mention hotel discount; is that right?\n6 A. Yes.\n7 Q. Where were the hotels that G/Clubs members were entitled to\n8 a discount for?\n9 A. The hotels were in Puerto Rico.\n10 Q. How many hotels in Puerto Rico were they entitled to a\n11 discount for?\n12 A. Three.\n13 Q. And what was the discount that G/Clubs members were\n14 entitled to at those three hotels in Puerto Rico?\n15 A. If I'm not mistaken 10 percent discount.\n16 Q. How would that work?\n17 What was the process in which a G/Clubs member would\n18 attain those 10 percent discount at those three hotels in\n19 Puerto Rico?\n20 A. They would receive a link or a code, depending, and they\n21 would be able to book their stay.\n22 Q. Would it be booked through G/Clubs?\n23 A. No.\n24 Q. Who would it be booked through?\n25 A. The member.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. The member would book it where?\n2 A. Through the website of the hotel.\n3 Q. How much did it cost G/Club to obtain that benefits from\n4 those three hotels for its members?\n5 A. It did not cost us.\n6 Q. How many members took advantage of the 10 percent discount\n7 at the three hotels in Puerto Rico?\n8 A. I do not know.\n9 Q. You mention that there was a dinner at a Michelin star\n10 restaurant; is that correct?\n11 A. Yes.\n12 Q. Can you describe to the members of the jury, Ms. Reyes, the\n13 nature of that benefit?\n14 A. It was a dinner at a Michelin restaurant. I don't remember\n15 the name in the UK. It was on Chinese New Year.\n16 Q. And was it just one night dinner or multiple dinners?\n17 A. Just that one night dinner.\n18 Q. Was the dinner free for G/Club members?\n19 A. No, they had to pay. It was a discount.\n20 Q. How much was the discount?\n21 A. I don't recall.\n22 Q. How many members took advantage of that benefit?\n23 A. I do not know.\n24 Q. How much did the dinner cost?\n25 A. I don't recall.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. You mentioned, did you say a charter?\n2 A. There was a boat charter.\n3 Q. What do you mean by boat charter?\n4 A. It was a boat service that they could book a boating trip.\n5 Q. And where was that boat service located?\n6 A. In Puerto Rico.\n7 Q. What was the nature of the benefit or discount that G/Clubs\n8 members could obtain?\n9 A. If I'm not mistaken, it was a percent, a discount, and I\n10 believe it included something like champagne. I don't remember\n11 exactly the percentage.\n12 Q. How much did it cost G/Club to obtain that benefit for its\n13 members?\n14 A. It didn't cost us.\n15 Q. How many G/Club members took advantage of that benefit?\n16 A. I do not know.\n17 Q. Did any G/Club members live in Puerto Rico to your\n18 knowledge?\n19 A. Not that I was aware of.\n20 Q. Did you mention something about Fiji and Australia?\n21 A. Yes.\n22 Q. Can you describe that, the nature of that benefit to the\n23 members of the jury?\n24 A. They were a block of dates for a hotel stay, one in Fiji\n25 and one in Australia, and they would get a discount and some\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 other benefits as well.\n2 Q. What do you mean by block of dates?\n3 A. It was a set number of dates. It was a set date that they\n4 would be able to book.\n5 Q. And how many dates were available for the G/Club discount\n6 at the hotel in Fiji and Australia?\n7 A. I don't recall specifically.\n8 Q. Approximately how many, months, weeks?\n9 A. Maybe a couple of weeks.\n10 Q. And how much money did it cost G/Club to obtain that\n11 benefit for its members?\n12 A. It did not cost us.\n13 Q. And how many G/Club members, if any, to your knowledge took\n14 advantage of that benefit, the blocks?\n15 A. I do not know.\n16 Q. You mention Formula One race?\n17 A. Yes.\n18 Q. What was the nature of that benefit?\n19 A. It was a discount that the members were able to select\n20 where they would like to view the race at the Monaco race and\n21 then throughout the year.\n22 Q. And how many events were there associated with that\n23 benefit?\n24 A. Sorry. What do you mean?\n25 Q. Was it one race or more than one race?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. The first one was Monaco, and then it was extended\n2 throughout the whole year.\n3 Q. How many races, do you know?\n4 A. I do not know.\n5 Q. How many G/Club members to your knowledge took advantage of\n6 that the Formula One race?\n7 A. I do not know.\n8 Q. I believe you mentioned, did you mention FAO Schwarz?\n9 A. Yes.\n10 Q. What was the nature of that benefit?\n11 A. We had close off the toy store FAO Schwarz for our members.\n12 They would be able to tour the toy store. We had breakfast for\n13 them. They had discount on their merchandise and that was two\n14 days.\n15 Q. How long was -- FAO Schwarz located where?\n16 A. New York.\n17 Q. Where in New York?\n18 A. I'm not exactly sure the address.\n19 Q. Manhattan?\n20 A. Yes.\n21 Q. Were you present for that event?\n22 A. Yes.\n23 Q. How long was FAO Schwarz closed for?\n24 A. Like a couple of hours, like an hour.\n25 Q. How much did it cost for G/Clubs to obtain that benefit for\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 its members?\n2 A. Around, the booking of the space was around $13,000.\n3 Q. How many G/Club members attended the FAO Schwarz event that\n4 you were present at?\n5 A. Maybe four or five.\n6 Q. Were there any other events scheduled in New York around\n7 the FAO Schwarz event?\n8 A. The original idea for the FAO Schwarz was to have a tour of\n9 the toy store and later on have a gingerbread activity for the\n10 kids. That didn't happen.\n11 Q. Who canceled the gingerbread activity for the kids?\n12 A. Yvette requested to cancel it.\n13 Q. Those benefits that we went through, were those available\n14 to every membership tier?\n15 A. Yes, except G Fashion, that was pertaining to their tier.\n16 Q. Every other benefit, every tier got whether they were\n17 50,000 tier or 10,000 tier?\n18 A. Yes.\n19 Q. Is there a G/Club news letter?\n20 A. We promoted the different benefits through their emails.\n21 Q. What is Orbit?\n22 A. Orbit is the customer service company that we used for our\n23 members.\n24 Q. And what did Orbit do?\n25 A. They would receive members' questions through them and then\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 they would, depending on the question or the concern, they\n2 would assign them to different departments.\n3 Q. Where was Orbit located?\n4 A. The agents were located in different parts of the world.\n5 Q. Did Orbit book travel for members?\n6 A. No, they did not.\n7 Q. Did Orbit book hotel stays for members?\n8 A. No, they did not.\n9 Q. Did Orbit rent cars for members?\n10 A. No.\n11 Q. Was Orbit a concierge service?\n12 A. No.\n13 Q. Did G/Clubs offer its members concierge services?\n14 A. Yes.\n15 Q. What sort of concierge services did G/Clubs offer its\n16 members?\n17 A. We didn't. It was named concierge service.\n18 Q. Did G/Clubs have available to its members luxury sports\n19 cars to use?\n20 A. No.\n21 Q. Did G/Clubs have available to its members homes to stay in?\n22 A. No.\n23 Q. To your knowledge did G/Club ever purchase a mansion?\n24 A. Not that I was aware of.\n25 Q. Have you ever been to 675 Ramapo Boulevard?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. I'm sorry.\n2 Q. Have you ever been to 675 Ramapo Boulevard?\n3 A. I don't know where that is.\n4 Q. Do you know what the Crocker mansion is?\n5 A. The what? sorry.\n6 Q. The Crocker mansion?\n7 A. No.\n8 Q. Are you aware of G/Clubs ever purchasing property in New\n9 Jersey?\n10 A. Not that I was aware.\n11 Q. Are you aware of G/Clubs purchasing property anywhere in\n12 the United States?\n13 A. Not that I was aware.\n14 Q. Are you aware of G/Clubs purchasing property anywhere on\n15 the planet?\n16 A. Not that I was aware of.\n17 Q. Can we please display what's in evidence as Government\n18 Exhibit 134.\n19 Ms. Reyes, can you see that on your screen?\n20 A. Yes.\n21 Q. Do you know where this is?\n22 A. No, I do not.\n23 Q. Is this a property that G/Clubs owns to your knowledge?\n24 A. Not that I'm aware of.\n25 Q. We can take that down.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 Ms. Reyes, did there come a time, if ever, where you\n2 proposed that G/Club should offer a clubhouse to its members?\n3 A. Yes.\n4 Q. Who did you propose that to?\n5 A. We spoke collectively with the team in Puerto Rico that it\n6 would make sense at some point to have a club for our members.\n7 Q. And did you propose that idea to anybody?\n8 A. There was a time where there was like a little Island that\n9 was on sale and I did propose that to Yvette, yes.\n10 Q. And where was that Island located?\n11 A. In Puerto Rico.\n12 Q. And how much did that Island cost approximately?\n13 A. I'm not exactly sure, but it was in the millions, maybe\n14 more than five. I don't know exactly.\n15 Q. Was it more or less than 12 million?\n16 A. I'm not exactly sure. I would think more than five.\n17 Q. What did Yvette say, if anything, when you proposed\n18 purchasing this Island for members?\n19 A. At the end, it wasn't -- like it didn't make sense to\n20 purchase an Island due to the value of it.\n21 Q. Who decided how much money to spend on purchases that\n22 G/Clubs made?\n23 A. What purchases specifically?\n24 Q. Were you able to spend money, G/Clubs money on things?\n25 A. Some things.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. What are the things you were able to spend G/Club money on?\n2 A. Like if we had a lunch for an event with the employees, I\n3 would spend that, office supplies; for example, FAO Schwarz\n4 event.\n5 Q. Ms. Reyes, who were multiple memberships?\n6 A. Multiple membership is where members are able to purchase\n7 more than one membership.\n8 Q. Whose idea was it to permit members to purchase more than\n9 one membership?\n10 A. The request came from Yvette.\n11 Q. Can we please display what's in evidence as Government\n12 Exhibit GC-126. Zoom in at the top, please, Ms. Loftus.\n13 What is this document about Ms. Reyes?\n14 A. It's an email from Yvette to Jessica, myself regarding\n15 reviewing the membership agreement to allow for multi-members.\n16 Q. Can you read the bottom email. It says, it's from Jessica\n17 Mastrogiovanni starting with please revise?\n18 A. Please revise the membership agreement ASAP to allow\n19 members to buy more than one membership. Need to be unlimited.\n20 Q. And what was Yvette's response to this email?\n21 A. Jessica, please come to me about this.\n22 Q. What email address did Yvette use in this email?\n23 A. Officework 2020.\n24 Q. Did Yvette have a G/Clubs domain email like you did?\n25 A. Not that I was aware of.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. The benefits that we discussed previously, did multiple --\n2 withdrawn.\n3 How many memberships could a member purchase if they\n4 wanted to?\n5 A. Multiples, I recall seeing at least ten.\n6 Q. One person buying ten memberships?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. Was there any limit to the number of members that an\n9 individual could purchase?\n10 A. Not that I recall.\n11 Q. Did you ask Yvette why G/Clubs should implement a multiple\n12 membership option?\n13 A. No.\n14 Q. Did you ask Mr. He why G/Clubs should implement a multiple\n15 membership option?\n16 A. Not that I recall.\n17 Q. What additional benefits, if any, did multiple memberships\n18 get?\n19 A. They would get access more than once at the sweepstakes,\n20 participate in sweepstakes, and it was promoted that they would\n21 have access to VIP events and a concierge service.\n22 Q. You said it was promoted that multiple members would have\n23 access to VIP events, were there any VIP events?\n24 A. We did not host it.\n25 Q. Was there any concierge service for multiple members?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. Not at the time.\n2 Q. At any other time that you were at G/Clubs?\n3 A. No.\n4 Q. Were members provided a membership agreement?\n5 A. Upon registration, they had to upon registration. Online\n6 they would see their membership agreement.\n7 Q. Were they required to acknowledge it?\n8 A. To the best of my understanding, they had to check, click\n9 on a box.\n10 Q. If we can bring up what's in evidence, please, Ms. Loftus,\n11 as Government Exhibit GC-28. And who's this email from at the\n12 top?\n13 A. It's an email from Ana to Jessica and myself.\n14 Q. And what is the attachment called that's attached to this\n15 email?\n16 A. G/Club membership agreement, red line multiple membership.\n17 Q. Zoom out of that, please, Ms. Loftus.\n18 And this is a response to the email you mentioned\n19 before, that we talked about before. Can you zoom in on the\n20 bottom email, please.\n21 On this email the CC line it says officework\n22 2020@protonmail.com Do you see that, Ms. Reyes?\n23 A. Yes.\n24 Q. Whose email is that?\n25 A. Yvette's.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. Did you ask Yvette why she used that email address for\n2 G/Club's business, Officework2020@proton mail.com?\n3 A. No, I did not.\n4 Q. Ms. Loftus, if we can go to the next page.\n5 Is this the membership agreement that Ana Izquierdo\n6 adjusted?\n7 A. Can you scroll it a bit. Yes.\n8 Q. If can you go, Ms. Loftus, to page four paragraph 12B. Go\n9 down a little bit, please. Can you zoom in on that.\n10 Ms. Reyes, can you read the underlined text beginning\n11 with Member may?\n12 A. Member may purchase more than one membership with G/Clubs\n13 for themself and will be assigned a membership number per\n14 membership. However, members with multiple memberships will\n15 only be able to use one membership for special pricings from\n16 G/Club affiliates and will not be able to combine said\n17 memberships.\n18 Q. Did Ana Izquierdo also report to you that?\n19 A. She would receive instruction from Yvette, yes.\n20 Q. You can zoom out of that, Ms. Loftus.\n21 And if you could go to paragraph 16. Zoom in on\n22 paragraph 16, please. Can you read that paragraph, please?\n23 A. Non-disparagement. The member and each immediate family\n24 member beneficiary hereby agrees not to disparage G/Clubs, its\n25 parent or affiliate companies, nor any of their respective\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 owners, partners, officers, directors, employees agents or\n2 other representatives, key host or spokespeople including for\n3 avoidance of doubt Mr. Guo Wengui. For purposes of this\n4 agreement, disparage shall mean make any statements to a third\n5 party that are unlawful, false, misleading, defamatory,\n6 harassing or abusive regarding one or more of the foregoing.\n7 Nothing herein shall prohibit or restrict a member or\n8 immediate family member beneficiaries ability to publish an\n9 honest review or performance assessment of G/Clubs or any goods\n10 or services it provides.\n11 Q. What was your understanding, if any, why the G/Clubs\n12 membership agreement as it text says, prohibited disparaging\n13 statements about Guo?\n14 A. I do not have an understanding.\n15 Q. Did you ask anyone why this paragraph was included in the\n16 membership agreement?\n17 A. No, I did not.\n18 Q. You can take that down. Can I have one moment.\n19 What was G/Clubs' policy, if any, about refund\n20 request?\n21 A. The policy changed through time. Originally it was\n22 cancellation three days after the membership and later on it\n23 was extended to 12 or 14 days. I'm not exactly sure.\n24 Q. What do you mean it was a three-day policy initially?\n25 A. That after a member got their membership, they had three\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 days to request cancellation.\n2 Q. And then it was extended to 14 days, is that what you said\n3 or 12?\n4 A. Twelve or 14 days.\n5 Q. Why was it extended to 12 or 14 days?\n6 A. I was told that it was due to something along the lines of\n7 a European law that required that time.\n8 Q. And when you started at G/Clubs, was the refund policy\n9 strict?\n10 A. Yes.\n11 Q. Were a lot of refunds given out?\n12 A. No.\n13 Q. Did that change where the refund changed, when the refund\n14 policy became less strict?\n15 A. Yes.\n16 Q. What changed for the refund policy to become less strict?\n17 A. After G/Clubs receive a subpoena, the refunds changed.\n18 Q. Subpoena from who?\n19 A. The government.\n20 Q. Ms. Reyes, one of the benefits I think you mentioned was --\n21 let me take a step back.\n22 What is G talk?\n23 A. G talks, it was originally intended to be an in-person\n24 event. Due to Covid, we had to shut to virtual, so it was a\n25 virtual event where we would have different topics. We had a\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 sweepstakes for our members.\n2 Q. And what happened? How many G talks were there while you\n3 were at G/Club?\n4 A. We hosted two.\n5 Q. And when were they?\n6 A. The first one was in February 2021. The second one was in\n7 March 2022.\n8 Q. And can you just describe what happened at G Talks?\n9 A. Depended. The first one was, we talked about G/Clubs. We\n10 presented the G Fashion collection, and we had the sweepstakes\n11 of the G Fashion prices. There were vehicle prizes as well and\n12 cash value. The second one was more towards Community Through\n13 Love, so we had different videos of different locations and we\n14 had the sweepstakes as well.\n15 Q. Where did the G Talks event occur?\n16 A. The first one it was virtual, so the different speakers\n17 were in different locations. The second one, the main\n18 broadcast was in New York, New York office.\n19 Q. Who could watch or how could someone watch the G Talks\n20 event?\n21 A. It was a link to the best of my understanding that was\n22 provided.\n23 Q. So it was online?\n24 A. Yes.\n25 Q. Were only members permitted to watch G Talk?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. The first G Talk was members only. The second G talk was\n2 open to the general public.\n3 Q. What was Miles Guo's role, if any, at G Talk events?\n4 A. He spoke at the G Talks.\n5 Q. We can take a look at what's in evidence as GXCT-171.\n6 Ms. Reyes, what is this document?\n7 A. It looks like the agenda for one of the G Talks.\n8 Q. If we can look at GXCT-170. What is this?\n9 A. Continuation of the agenda for the G Talk.\n10 Q. And is that you, by host?\n11 A. Yes.\n12 Q. What did you say in your welcoming remarks?\n13 A. I don't recall exactly.\n14 Q. If we can look at GXCT-172. Can you zoom in at the top\n15 please, Ms. Loftus.\n16 Can you read what it says at the top?\n17 A. List of do not words/ideas.\n18 Q. What is this document?\n19 A. It was a document of do not say words that was provided to\n20 Mr. Guo.\n21 Q. Why was a document of do not say words provided to Guo?\n22 A. I do not know.\n23 Q. What was the purpose of this document?\n24 A. To be a list of do not say words.\n25 Q. Do you know if Guo said these words or not?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. I do not know.\n2 Q. Why not?\n3 A. I do not know Mandarin.\n4 Q. Can you scroll down, please, Ms. Loftus. Stop right there.\n5 Do you see where it says growth and growth projections\n6 at the top?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. Do you know why growth and growth projections were words\n9 that Guo should not say?\n10 MR. KAMARAJU: Objection to the form, your Honor.\n11 THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.\n12 A. I do not know.\n13 Q. Participation, participate, business or profits. Do you\n14 know why those were words Guo was not supposed to say?\n15 A. I do not know.\n16 Q. GTV. You know why that was a word Guo was not supposed to\n17 say?\n18 A. I do not know.\n19 Q. What about Saraca, do you know why that was a word Guo was\n20 not supposed to say?\n21 A. I do not know.\n22 Q. Do you know what Saraca is?\n23 A. No.\n24 Q. What about voice of Guo, Voice of Good. Do you know what\n25 that is?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. No.\n2 Q. Rule of Law Foundation, Rule of Law Society. Do you know\n3 why Guo was not supposed to say those words?\n4 A. I do not know.\n5 Q. Was this list for G Talk one or G Talk two?\n6 A. To the best of my recollection G Talk One.\n7 Q. What was the date of G Talk One approximately?\n8 A. February 2021.\n9 Q. And then a couple of rows down it says Yvette Wang, Yvette.\n10 Do you know why Guo was not supposed to mention Yvette?\n11 A. I do not know.\n12 Q. Can we scroll down, Ms. Loftus. And it says Sara, below\n13 Sara it says Mulan. Do you know why Guo was not supposed to\n14 mention Mulan?\n15 A. I do not know.\n16 Q. Do you know who Mulan is?\n17 A. I've seen an image of the Disney character of Mulan if you\n18 will. I do not know.\n19 Q. What was your understanding of what Mulan did in relation\n20 to G/Club?\n21 MR. KAMARAJU: Object to the foundation, your Honor.\n22 THE COURT: Did she do anything in relation to the\n23 G/Clubs.\n24 Q. I'll withdraw it. What was your understanding of who Mulan\n25 was?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. I do not know who she was.\n2 Q. Did Mulan do anything in relation to G/Club?\n3 MR. KAMARAJU: Same objection, your Honor.\n4 THE COURT: You may answer.\n5 A. She participated in the committee for the G Talks, that's\n6 where I saw the image.\n7 Q. Do you know what the iron blooded group is?\n8 A. I'm sorry.\n9 Q. The iron blooded group, do you know what that is?\n10 A. No.\n11 Q. Below Mulan, Ms. Reyes, it says SEC, investigation and\n12 litigations, do you know why Guo was not supposed to say those\n13 words?\n14 A. I do not know.\n15 Q. What about Golden Spring, do you know why Guo was not\n16 supposed to say Golden Spring?\n17 A. I do not know.\n18 Q. Do you know what Golden Spring is?\n19 A. I do not know.\n20 Q. Below Golden Spring, regulators, DOJ, Attorney General,\n21 prosecutors, U.S. government. Do you know why Guo was not\n22 supposed to say anything about those words?\n23 A. I do not know.\n24 Q. Scroll down. And below U.S. government it says G Coin, G\n25 Dollar, H Coin, H Dollar. Do you know why Guo was not suppose\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 to say anything about G Coin, G Dollar, H Coin and H Dollar?\n2 A. I do not know.\n3 Q. Do you know what G Coin and G dollar are?\n4 A. No.\n5 Q. Do you know what H Coin and H Dollar are?\n6 A. Yes.\n7 Q. What do you understand those things to be, H Coin and\n8 H Dollar?\n9 A. Those are methods of payments amongst -- H Dollar is, my\n10 understanding, like a one-on-one, and H Coin is, it fluctuates.\n11 Q. You can take that down. If we could please display for the\n12 witness GC-511.\n13 What is this a picture of?\n14 A. Mr. Guo and myself.\n15 MR. FINKEL: Government offers GC-511.\n16 MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.\n17 THE COURT: It is admitted.\n18 (Government's Exhibit GC-511 received in evidence)\n19 BY MR. FINKEL:\n20 Q. Where was this photograph taken?\n21 A. In the New York office.\n22 Q. Where was this New York office located?\n23 A. I don't know exactly the address. If I look at a map,\n24 Manhattan is in the front, so it's in the left side. If\n25 Central Park is in the center, it's in the left.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. To the left side of Central Park?\n2 A. Yes.\n3 Q. Ms. Reyes, why was this photograph taken? I'm going to ask\n4 you to point the mic toward you.\n5 A. Can you repeat the question.\n6 Q. What was the occasion for this photograph?\n7 A. This was taken during the second G Talks event.\n8 Q. And who selected your outfit?\n9 A. Mr. Guo.\n10 Q. And what brand made that outfit that you're wearing?\n11 A. G Fashion.\n12 Q. Did you keep that G Fashion outfit after the G Talks event?\n13 A. It was offered, but I did not keep it ultimately.\n14 Q. Why did you not keep it ultimately?\n15 A. Because we're asked to pay for it.\n16 Q. Who was asked to pay for it?\n17 A. G/Clubs.\n18 Q. How much was G/Clubs charge for the outfit that you wore\n19 during the G Talk event?\n20 A. I do not recall the exact amount of the dress.\n21 Q. Approximately how much?\n22 A. If I was to guess, maybe around a thousand.\n23 MR. KAMARAJU: Object to the guessing, your Honor.\n24 THE COURT: Don't guess. If you don't know, just say\n25 you don't know.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. You can take that down. Ms. Reyes, you mentioned something\n2 about a sweepstakes in connection with the G Talk. Can you\n3 explain your understanding of that sweepstakes?\n4 A. The sweepstakes were, we had different prizes and members\n5 that register for the event were selected to be the lucky\n6 winners of the different prizes.\n7 Q. What were the kinds of prizes that the members could win if\n8 they were selected?\n9 A. We had vehicles, G Fashion items, different G Fashion items\n10 and cash values.\n11 Q. Do you know how the winners were selected, exactly how it\n12 worked?\n13 A. There was a sweepstake company and they were the ones that\n14 selected the different winners.\n15 Q. If we can please display what I believe is in evidence as\n16 GX-121. Do you know who this individual is?\n17 A. Mr. Yong .\n18 Q. Did Mr. Yong ever win the sweepstakes?\n19 A. Yes.\n20 Q. What did he win?\n21 A. A Lamborghini.\n22 Q. Did you ever meet him, Mr. Yong?\n23 A. In person?\n24 Q. Yes.\n25 A. Yes.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. If we can please display what's in evidence as Government\n2 Exhibit GXGC-547. Zoom in on that one, please, Ms. Loftus.\n3 Can you read that message?\n4 A. These three members would like to visit your office.\n5 Ideally take off tomorrow from New York City, fly back on\n6 Sunday. Let me know when you can talk about this. Thank you.\n7 Q. Who was that message sent to?\n8 A. It was sent to -- I don't see, but I recall the message\n9 sent to me.\n10 Q. Sent to you?\n11 A. Yes.\n12 Q. From whom?\n13 A. From Yvette.\n14 Q. And what is your understanding of what Yvette meant, these\n15 three members would like to visit your office?\n16 A. There was a time where three members came to our Puerto\n17 Rican office to see the office.\n18 Q. What were their names?\n19 A. Alex Chi, Mr. Yong and Sharon or Shannon.\n20 Q. Mr. Young, the image of the individual we just saw with the\n21 air pods?\n22 A. Yes.\n23 Q. Can you zoom out of that, Ms. Loftus, and scroll down. Can\n24 you zoom in on the second line. Can you read that?\n25 A. Mr. Yong Zhang.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 Q. Who do you understand that to be?\n2 A. Mr. Yong.\n3 Q. The air pods picture?\n4 A. Yes.\n5 Q. Did Mr. Yong come to the Puerto Rico office?\n6 A. Yes.\n7 Q. Was it around this time in the summer of 2022?\n8 A. To the best of my recollection, yes.\n9 Q. What was your understanding of why Mr. Yong visited the\n10 Puerto Rico office?\n11 A. They were there to visit the Puerto Rico office, meet the\n12 team, get to know the different departments and talk about\n13 G/Clubs.\n14 Q. How much time did you spend with Mr. Yong in Puerto Rico?\n15 A. I don't recall specifically.\n16 Q. Did Yvette ask you to take him out to dinner as well\n17 Mr. Yong?\n18 A. I don't remember her specifically telling me to take them\n19 out to dinner, but to be hospitable and host them, so we did.\n20 Q. What did you talk about with Mr. Yong?\n21 A. I don't remember specifically.\n22 Q. Did you talk about taking down the Chinese Communist Party?\n23 A. No.\n24 Q. Did you talk about the democratic movement against the\n25 Chinese Communist Party?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. No.\n2 Q. What was your understanding of what, if anything, Mr. Yong\n3 did?\n4 A. I understood he was a lawyer, an attorney.\n5 Q. Take that down, please.\n6 Aside from the Lamborghini that Mr. Yong won, were\n7 there other members who won cars?\n8 A. There were other members that won cars, but to the best of\n9 my recollection they ultimately decided for the cash value.\n10 Q. What do you mean they ultimately decided for the cash\n11 value?\n12 A. Instead of having the physical car, they decided on the\n13 value of the car.\n14 Q. And to your knowledge were payments made to some of those\n15 members?\n16 A. To the best of my knowledge, yes.\n17 Q. Did all of those members who selected cash value accept a\n18 wire transfer?\n19 A. No, there were different payment methods. There's wires.\n20 There came a time I believe there was checks and there's -- in\n21 form of credit to their membership.\n22 Q. What do you mean by a form of credit?\n23 A. The value of the price would be credited to their annual\n24 fee or any membership depending on what they selected.\n25 Q. Did some of the winners choose that option, the credit for\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 G/Club membership?\n2 A. I do recall, yes, one.\n3 Q. Are you familiar with an email address Notices@G mail.com?\n4 A. Yes.\n5 Q. Who used that email address?\n6 A. The legal department.\n7 Q. For what purpose?\n8 A. Legal matters, cancellations, member complaints.\n9 Q. What do you mean by cancellations?\n10 A. When members requested for cancellation, it would be\n11 assigned to the legal for review.\n12 Q. If we can pull up what I think is in evidence as GXW-17.\n13 Can you see that on your screen, Ms. Reyes?\n14 A. Yes.\n15 Q. What is this?\n16 A. It's the G/Clubs website.\n17 Q. Can you scroll down, please, Ms. Loftus, scroll down a\n18 little bit more.\n19 On the right below Experiences that Enrich, can you\n20 read the text below that, please?\n21 A. Our concierge staff crafts individually curated experiences\n22 that give you exclusive access to the world's most remarkable\n23 destinations, products and services.\n24 MR. FINKEL: Your Honor, in the abundance of caution,\n25 the government offers GXW-17. I believe it's in, but if not the\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 government offers.\n2 MR. KAMARAJU: No objection.\n3 THE COURT: It is admitted.\n4 (Government's Exhibit GXW-17 received in evidence)\n5 BY MR. FINKEL:\n6 Q. Ms. Reyes, did G/Clubs have concierge staff that crafted\n7 individually curated experiences for its members?\n8 A. No, we did not.\n9 Q. Was written on the G/Clubs website true?\n10 A. No, we did not offer.\n11 MR. FINKEL: Government also offers GXW-16 and GXW-19.\n12 MR. KAMARAJU: No objection, your Honor.\n13 THE COURT: They're admitted.\n14 (Government's Exhibits GXW-16 and GXW-19 received in\n15 evidence)\n16 BY MR. FINKEL:\n17 Q. Ms. Loftus, if we can pull up GXW-16. What is this?\n18 A. The G/Club website.\n19 Q. Can you scroll down a little bit. By the way, who selected\n20 these images?\n21 A. The marketing agency and our marketing team.\n22 Q. So here it says, Where Will your Curiosity Take you. Can\n23 you read what it says below that?\n24 A. G/Clubs members are empowered to curate their own one of a\n25 kind experiences, be it a hot air balloon ride over the\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 vineyards of northern Spain, a romantic dinner on the shores of\n2 the Seine river, or a private guided safari. The only limit is\n3 your imagination.\n4 Q. Ms. Reyes, did the G/Clubs offer its members a hot air\n5 balloon ride?\n6 A. Not at the time, no.\n7 Q. Did it offer its members a romantic dinner on the shores of\n8 the Seine river?\n9 A. Not at the time, no.\n10 Q. Or a private guided safari?\n11 A. Not at the time, no.\n12 Q. Is this information about what G/Clubs offered its members\n13 true?\n14 A. We did not offer it at the time, no.\n15 Q. Let's scroll down, please. Keep going please.\n16 Below next to the helicopter, it says Be Inquisitive\n17 Live inspired. Did I read that right?\n18 A. Yes.\n19 Q. Can you read the text below that?\n20 A. You have the support of a complete team of professionals\n21 that not only crafts unique experience for your pleasure, but\n22 also works with you to fulfill those items that are on your\n23 bucket list.\n24 Q. Was there a complete team of professionals that crafted\n25 unique experiences for G/Club members?\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 A. Not at the time.\n2 Q. At any time while you were at G/Clubs was there?\n3 A. We were working on it, but it wasn't in place.\n4 Q. Is there a time that Guo was on the website?\n5 A. Yes.\n6 Q. Did there come a time when he was removed from the website?\n7 A. Yes.\n8 Q. Who asked that he be removed from the website?\n9 A. Mr. He.\n10 Q. Did Mr. He explain why he wanted Guo to be removed from the\n11 website?\n12 A. To the best of my recollection, it was because creating\n13 difficulties with his banking relationships.\n14 MS. MURRAY: Your Honor, I see it's 4:56. If your\n15 Honor would like, this is a good time to break, but it's up to\n16 the Court of course.\n17 THE COURT: That's fine. Members of the jury, we will\n18 finish now, and you will return tomorrow ready to come into the\n19 courtroom at 9:30. Remember that you're not allowed to discuss\n20 this case amongst yourselves or with anyone else. Don't permit\n21 anyone to discuss it in your presence. Don't read, watch or\n22 listen to anything from any source that touches on any matter\n23 related to this case. Have a good evening and you may step\n24 out. Don't discuss your testimony.\n25 THE LAW CLERK: Jury exiting.\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - Direct\n1 (Jury not present)\n2 THE COURT: Please be seated. Is there anything\n3 before we stop for the day?\n4 MR. KAMARAJU: Not from the defense.\n5 MR. FINKEL: Nor the government. Have a nice evening.\n6 THE COURT: Same to you.\n7 (Adjourned to June 18, 2024 at 9:00 a.m.)\n8\n9\n10\n11\n12\n13\n14\n15\n16\n17\n18\n19\n20\n21\n22\n23\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\n1 INDEX OF EXAMINATION\n2 Examination of: Page\n3 JAMES ROBERT COLLINS JR.\n4 Direct By Mr. Finkel . . . . . . . . . . . . .2775\n5 Cross By Mr. Kamaraju . . . . . . . . . . . .2815\n6 Redirect By Mr. Finkel . . . . . . . . . . . .2892\n7 CHRISTINE FROSINI\n8 Direct By Ms. Murray . . . . . . . . . . . . .2897\n9 Cross By Ms. Shroff . . . . . . . . . . . . .2952\n10 Redirect By Ms. Murray . . . . . . . . . . . .2969\n11 Recross By Ms. Shroff . . . . . . . . . . . .2970\n12 Redirect By Ms. Murray . . . . . . . . . . . .2971\n13 Recross By Ms. Shroff . . . . . . . . . . . .2972\n14 LIMARIE REYES\n15 Direct By Mr. Finkel . . . . . . . . . . . . .2973\n16 GOVERNMENT EXHIBITS\n17 Exhibit No. Received\n18 MER-5 and MER-6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2802\n19 145 and 146 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2900\n20 1850, 1850A . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2998\n21 GC3, GC27, GC28, GC33, GC37, GC38, . . . . .2998\n22 GC40, GC43, GC54, GC59, GC60,\n23 GC93, GC95\n24 GC121, GC122, GC197, GC126, GC136, . . . . .2998\n25 GC150A, GC150, GC157, GC158,\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\n1 GC160, GC168, GC175, GC178,\n2 GC184, GC187, GC189, GC198\n3 GC209, GC213, GC218, GC220, GC221, . . . . .2998\n4 GC222, GC227, GC228, GC233,\n5 GC242, GC254, GC276, GC286,\n6 GC292, GC293, GC299\n7 GC300, GC307, GC309, GC317, GC318, . . . . .2998\n8 GC332, GC334, GC340, GC341,\n9 GC346, GC363, GC365, GC372,\n10 GC376, GC377, GC379, GC380,\n11 GC382, GC387, GC389, GC392,\n12 GC393\n13 GC483, GC484, GC485, GC486, GC487, . . . . .2998\n14 GC422, GC423, GC424, GC405,\n15 GC406, GC409, GC415, GC416,\n16 GC418, GC419, GC422, GC427,\n17 GC428, GC431, GC432, GC433,\n18 GC436, GC438, GC441, GC443,\n19 GC444, GC450, GC452, GC453,\n20 GC454, GC455, GC467, GC470,\n21 GC476, GC480, GC484, GC486,\n22 GC487, GC494, GC495, GC497\n23 GC504, GC541, GC517, GC518, GC520, . . . . .2999\n24 GC521, GC522, GC525, GC526,\n25 GC527, GC528, GC530-534,\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\n1 GC536-538, GC540, GC544,\n2 GC547, GC549, GC553, GC553A,\n3 and GC550\n4 GXW-16 and GXW-19 . . . . . . . . . . . . .3035\n5 MER-8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2808\n6 GXW-17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3035\n7 101 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2995\n8 112 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2989\n9 113 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2776\n10 134 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2899\n11 MER138 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2792\n12 GC-511 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3028\n13 1100 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2903\n14 1101 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2918\n15 1102 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2930\n16 MER1203 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2784\n17 MER1204 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2786\n18 MER1205 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2798\n19 MER-1206 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2810\n20 DEFENDANT EXHIBITS\n21 Exhibit No. Received\n22 60554 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2821\n23 60556 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2873\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300","body_zh":"O6H1GUO1\n1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT（美国联邦地区法院）\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK（纽约南区）\n2 ------------------------------x\nUNITED STATES OF AMERICA（美利坚合众国），\n\n诉 23 Cr. 118 (AT)\n\nMILES GUO（郭文贵），\n\n被告。 庭审\n6 ------------------------------x\n纽约州纽约市\n7 2024年6月17日\n上午9:30\n\n主审法官：\n\n10 HON. ANALISA TORRES（阿纳丽莎·托雷斯阁下），\n11 地区法官\n——以及陪审团——\n\n出庭人员\n\nDAMIAN WILLIAMS（达米安·威廉姆斯）\n14 United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York（纽约南区联邦检察官）\n15 代理人：RYAN B. FINKEL（莱恩·B·芬克尔）\nJULIANA N. MURRAY（朱莉安娜·N·默里）\n16 联邦助理检察官\n17 SABRINA P. SHROFF（萨布丽娜·P·施罗夫）\n被告辩护律师\n\nPRYOR CASHMAN LLP（普莱尔·卡什曼律师事务所）\n19 被告辩护律师\n代理人：SIDHARDHA KAMARAJU（悉达多·卡马拉朱）\n20 MATTHEW BARKAN（马修·巴肯）\nCLARE P. TILTON（克莱尔·P·蒂尔顿）\n\n其他在场人员：\n22 Isabel Loftus（伊莎贝尔·洛夫特斯），USAO（美国联邦检察官办公室）律师助理专员\nRobert Stout（罗伯特·斯托特），FBI（联邦调查局）特别探员\n23 Ruben Montilla（鲁本·蒙蒂拉），辩方律师助理\nTuo Huang（黄拓），翻译（普通话）\n24 Shi Feng（冯实），翻译（普通话）\nYu Mark Tang（唐玉马克），翻译（普通话）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（南区速记报告服务公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 直接询问\n1 （庭审恢复；陪审团未在场）\n2 法庭：早上好。请出庭人员报到。\n3\n4 芬克尔先生：法官阁下，早上好，莱恩·芬克尔和朱莉安娜·默里代表政府方出庭。在律师席与我们同席的还有伊莎贝尔·洛夫特斯和特别探员罗伯特·斯托特。\n5\n6\n7 卡马拉朱先生：法官阁下，早上好，悉达多·卡马拉朱、萨布丽娜·施罗夫、马修·巴肯和克莱尔·蒂尔顿代表郭先生出庭，郭先生与我们一同就座于辩护席。\n8\n9\n10 法庭：请带陪审员入庭。\n11 （陪审团入庭）\n12 法庭：请就坐。\n13 陪审员们早上好，欢迎回来。\n14 陪审团：早上好。\n15 法庭：我们现在继续对柯林斯先生进行直接询问。\n16\n17 你可以开始提问了。\n18 芬克尔先生：谢谢法官阁下。\n19 JAMES ROBERT COLLINS JR.（小詹姆斯·罗伯特·柯林斯），重返证人席。\n20 直接询问\n21 由芬克尔先生进行：\n22 问：早上好，先生。\n23 答：早上好。\n24 问：那么我提醒您，您仍在宣誓誓言约束之下，明白吗？\n25 答：是的。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 直接询问\n1 芬克尔先生：请为证人出示已编为待确认证物的政府方第113号物证。\n2\n3\n4 问：柯林斯先生，政府方第113号物证中描绘的人是谁？\n5 答：我不记得他的名字了，但他被宣称是Himalaya Exchange（喜马拉雅交易所）的总裁。\n6\n7 芬克尔先生：请出示已采纳为证据的政府方第BR208A号物证。\n8\n9 洛夫特斯女士，请向下滚动一下。\n10 可以放大底部吗。\n11 问：柯林斯先生，请看一下那个，并告诉我它是否唤起了您的回忆。\n12\n13 答：是的，唤起了。\n14 芬克尔先生：洛夫特斯女士，请退回到政府方第113号物证。\n15\n16 问：政府方第113号物证中描绘的个人是谁？\n17 答：Jesse Brown（杰西·布朗）。\n18 芬克尔先生：政府方提请采纳第113号物证。\n19 卡马拉朱先生：无异议。\n20 法庭：予以采纳。\n21 （政府方第113号物证被采纳为证据）\n22 芬克尔先生：请公开展示该证物。\n23 问：柯林斯先生，您说杰西·布朗这个人被宣称是喜马拉雅交易所的总裁。您能向陪审团解释一下您这话是什么意思吗？\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 直接询问\n1 答：他声称那是他的头衔。喜马拉雅交易所的其他团队成员也那样称呼他。\n2\n3 问：谁？\n4 答：杰西·布朗。\n5 问：如果有的话，William Je（余建明）对杰西·布朗在喜马拉雅交易所的角色是怎么说的？\n6\n7 答：除了——除了交代，您知道，讨论他的头衔之外，我们并没有对杰西进行过多讨论。\n8\n9 问：据您所知，杰西·布朗常驻哪里？\n10 答：The British Virgin Islands（英属维尔京群岛）。\n11 问：您是否了解布朗先生为什么常驻英属维尔京群岛？\n12\n13 答：我认为他们在BVI（英属维尔京群岛）持有的执照类型要求有一名高级职员（若非主要高级职员的话）常驻当地。\n14\n15 问：关于喜马拉雅交易所，您个人与布朗先生大约有过多少次互动？\n16\n17 答：在群体中还是单独一对一？\n18 问：都可以。\n19 答：全部加起来，大概三四次。\n20 问：关于喜马拉雅交易所，您主要与谁进行互动？\n21\n22 答：余建明、Georgette Adonis-Roberts（乔治特·阿多尼斯-罗伯茨）和Priya Patel（普里亚·帕特尔）。\n23 法庭：芬克尔先生，请您靠近麦克风一点。\n24\n25 芬克尔先生：好的，法官阁下。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 直接询问\n1 问：那么柯林斯先生，据您的了解，是谁在运营喜马拉雅交易所？\n2\n3 答：在我看来很明确，是余建明在运营这项业务。\n4 问：为什么在您看来很明确是余建明在运营喜马拉雅交易所？\n5\n6 答：围绕喜马拉雅交易所做出的几乎任何决定，大家最终都会听从他的意见。\n7\n8 芬克尔先生：请出示政府方第103号物证。\n9\n10 问：柯林斯先生，您是否曾在某个时候亲自与余先生见过面？\n11\n12 答：是的。\n13 问：您在哪里见的他？\n14 答：我在他们位于伦敦郊外的办公室见的他。\n15 问：谁位于伦敦郊外的办公室？\n16 答：喜马拉雅交易所。\n17 问：大约是什么时候？\n18 答：大约在2021年秋季。\n19 问：能否请您向陪审团描述一下，您在余先生位于伦敦的办公室里与他关于喜马拉雅交易所交谈的性质。\n20\n21\n22 答：他很兴奋地向我们介绍他们的产品；他们当时正处于推出Himalaya Coin（喜币）和Himalaya Dollar（喜美元）的过程中，两者都在该交易所挂牌。他非常热衷于利用市场上对数字资产的兴趣，他们将该交易所宣传为下一个重大突破。\n23\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 直接询问\n1\n2\n3 问：您说他当时有兴趣利用数字资产市场的机会，是什么意思？\n4\n5 答：普遍、公开、全球范围内对于投资数字资产都存在很大兴趣。\n6\n7 问：当您根据2021年秋季的认知说“数字资产”时，能举几个例子吗？\n8\n9 答：嗯，最大、也许最知名的数字资产是Bitcoin（比特币）。它通常被称为——这个市场通常被称为加密货币。Ethereum（以太坊）是另一种代币。我认为目前挂牌的代币有20,000种之多。\n10\n11\n12\n13 问：在您与余先生在伦敦举行这次会议的时候，您听说过喜币吗？\n14\n15 答：没有。\n16 问：您听说过喜美元吗？\n17 答：没有。\n18 问：据您当时所知，喜币或喜美元在任何其他加密货币交易所上可以买到吗？\n19\n20 答：据我所知没有。\n21 问：您当时是否与余先生就郭文贵进行过任何交谈？\n22\n23 答：我想我提到了我们曾告知他们的工作人员，我们对郭文贵的背景情况有所顾虑，我要求他确认郭文贵的资金没有卷入我们将要接入上线的账户中，并且郭文贵绝不是这些企业的控制人。\n24\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 直接询问\n1\n2\n3 问：对于您要求确认郭文贵绝不是该企业控制人的请求，余先生是怎么回应的？\n4\n5\n6 答：他确认了郭文贵不是UBO（最终受益所有人），他的资金也没有被用于该交易所。\n7\n8 法庭：UBO是什么意思？\n9 证人：Ultimate beneficial owner（最终受益所有人）。这算是Bank Secrecy Act（《银行保密法》）下的一个专业术语。\n10\n11 问：余先生是否有就喜美元是否有黄金储备支持做过任何解释？\n12\n13 答：他没有提到那个。\n14 问：您在伦敦时是否见过一位名叫普里亚·帕特尔的人？\n15\n16 答：见过。\n17 问：普里亚·帕特尔是谁？\n18 答：普里亚·帕特尔被宣称是该公司的最高级别法律主管。\n19\n20 问：哪家公司？\n21 答：据我所知的是Hamilton（汉密尔顿）、由汉密尔顿运营的各个基金，以及喜马拉雅交易所。\n22\n23 问：据您了解，汉密尔顿是什么？\n24 答：有几家不同的实体使用了汉密尔顿这个名称。例如，Hamilton Special Opportunities Fund（汉密尔顿特别机遇基金），根据我的理解，汉密尔顿实体群总体上是用来投资余建明及其投资者资金的投资工具。\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 直接询问\n1\n2\n3\n4 问：据您了解，是谁在运营汉密尔顿实体？\n5\n6 答：William。\n7 问：William，姓什么？\n8 答：William Je（余建明）。\n9 问：您是否审阅了——好吧，撤回。\n10 芬克尔先生：洛夫特斯女士，请为证人和陪审团播放已采纳为证据的证物——但请在Trial Director之外播放——政府方第C370-V号物证。\n11\n12\n13 请只播放几秒钟。\n14 （视频播放）\n15 芬克尔先生：请暂停一下。\n16 由芬克尔先生继续：\n17 问：柯林斯先生，在Mercantile Bank（商业银行）考虑将喜马拉雅交易所作为客户接入上线的前后，您看过这个视频吗？\n18\n19 答：我看过几个视频。这个看起来很眼熟。\n20 芬克尔先生：洛夫特斯女士，请播放视频。\n21\n22 （视频播放）\n23 芬克尔先生：可以停在那里了。\n24 问：柯林斯先生，在您看这个视频的时候，您对此有什么反应（如果有的话）？\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 直接询问\n1 答：我认为这纯粹是营销宣传。我并没有太强烈的正向或负向反应。\n2\n3 问：在决定是否接入上线客户时，商业银行会考虑客户的营销宣传吗？\n4\n5 答：有时会。\n6 问：在本案中您考虑了吗？\n7 答：我认为我们结合了我的《银行保密法》合规团队，进行了整体全面的考量。\n8\n9 问：柯林斯先生，在我们刚刚看过的这个视频中有一句话说“to the moon”（飞向月球）。您看到并听到了吗？\n10\n11\n12 答：是的。\n13 问：您熟悉“to the moon”这句话吗？\n14 答：我的意思是，它出自一部老黑白电视剧，不过是的，我熟悉。\n15\n16 问：那么在加密货币的语境下，您熟悉“to the moon”这句话吗？\n17\n18 答：略知一二。\n19 问：它是什么意思？\n20 答：意思是指价格将无限上涨。\n21 问：这是加密货币圈子里的人常用的一句话吗，“to the moon”？\n22\n23 答：我以前听过。\n24 芬克尔先生：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以撤下那个视频了。\n25 问：柯林斯先生，商业银行最终是否接纳了喜马拉雅交易所作为客户？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 直接询问\n1\n2 答：是的。\n3 问：喜马拉雅交易所大约在贵行开立了多少个银行账户？\n4\n5 答：具体数字我不记得了，但大概在四到六个之间。\n6\n7 问：当您接纳喜马拉雅交易所作为客户时，您是否认为喜马拉雅交易所是一项合法的正当业务？\n8\n9 答：是的。\n10 问：商业银行是否为喜马拉雅交易所储存过黄金？\n11 答：没有。\n12 问：如果有的话，是否曾发生过G/CLUBS将资金转入喜马拉雅交易所银行账户的情况？\n13\n14 答：我认为有的。\n15 芬克尔先生：请为证人出示已编为待确认证物的政府方第MER1203号物证。\n16\n17\n18 问：柯林斯先生，您在显示器上看到了吗？\n19 答：看到了。\n20 问：请看一眼，并告诉我政府方第MER1203号物证是什么。\n21\n22 答：能——我能从下往上读吗？\n23 问：当然可以。\n24 答：好了。可以了。\n25 好的。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins（柯林斯）- 主问\n1 问：什么是 MER1203？\n2 答：这是我协助处理一笔从 G Club 转移到\n3 Himalaya Exchange（喜马拉雅交易所）的款项。\n4 问：是谁提出的这笔资金转移请求？\n5 答：Alex H。\n6 问：据你了解，他在哪家公司工作？\n7 答：G Club。\n8 MR. FINKEL（芬克尔先生）：政府方出示证据 MER1203。\n9 MR. KAMARAJU（卡马拉朱先生）：无异议。\n10 THE COURT（法庭）：予以采纳。\n11 （政府方证据 MER1203 已被采纳为证据）\n12 MR. FINKEL：洛夫特斯女士（Ms. Loftus），能否向法庭公开展示该证据。\n13 在调出该文件时，你可以滚动到底部。\n14\n15 THE COURT：先生，你说“资金变动”（movement），是什么意思？\n16\n17 THE WITNESS（证人）：电汇。\n18 THE COURT：请大声一点。\n19 THE WITNESS：电汇。\n20 BY MR. FINKEL（由芬克尔先生继续发问）：\n21 问：柯林斯先生，你能读一下，嗯，现在位于你屏幕\n22 顶部的这封电子邮件吗？这是 2021年12月1日 由 Alex H 发给 Georgette（乔治特）\n23 和你的，开头是“我被告知”。\n24 答：好的。\n25 问：请读一下。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区法庭速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 主问\n1 答：你想让我读这封电子邮件？\n2 问：是的，从“我被告知”开始。\n3 答：大声读出来吗？\n4 问：是的，请读。\n5 答：好的。“我被告知该账户已开立并准备好接收\n6 资金。\n7 “能否请您提供 Mercantile（商业银行）的 Himalaya International Clearing Ltd（喜马拉雅国际清算有限公司）账户的\n8 电汇信息，以便我\n9 安排转账 5000 万美元（50mm USD）。”\n10 MR. FINKEL：请向上滚动一下。\n11 问：对于那封邮件，你回复了什么？\n12 答：“您希望我协助处理此事吗？\n13 “未经您的批准，我不想将您的账号/详细信息\n14 提供给他。”\n15 这就是我回复给乔治特的话。\n16 MR. FINKEL：洛夫特斯女士，请再向上滚动一下。\n17\n18 问：在乔治特回复“这需要通过首席财务官（CFO）\n19 来协助处理”之后，柯林斯先生，你能读一下你\n20 是如何回复的吗？\n21 答：“听起来不错。John（约翰），你能否与 Mahsud（马哈苏德）合作完成这项\n22 授权（直接向 G Club 传达\n23 包含喜马拉雅账号的电汇指令），以便 G Club 可以\n24 将资金从 G Club 账户转至已开立的喜马拉雅账户，\n25 用于他们购买代币。”\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 主问\n1 MR. FINKEL：请向证人出示已标记为政府方\n2 识别证据 MER1204 的文件。\n3\n4 问：柯林斯先生，在调出文件的同时——Mr. Je（余先生）\n5 是否曾向你寻求帮助，处理他所谓的 VIP\n6 客户？\n7 答：是的。\n8 问：先生，你在屏幕上能看到那份文件吗？\n9 答：只是一个抬头，能看到。\n10 MR. FINKEL：洛夫特斯女士，请向下滚动。\n11 问：柯林斯先生，这份文件 MER1204 是什么？\n12 答：看起来是我和 William（威廉）之间的一系列消息。\n13 MR. FINKEL：政府方出示证据 MER1204。\n14 MR. KAMARAJU：无异议。\n15 THE COURT：予以采纳。\n16 （政府方证据 MER1204 已被采纳为证据）\n17 MR. FINKEL：请向法庭公开展示该证据。\n18 问：柯林斯先生，你和余先生之间的这些消息是\n19 哪一年哪个月的？\n20 答：2022年3月。\n21 问：你能读一下你在 2022年3月17日 下午 5:45 发送的\n22 第三条消息吗？\n23 答：“绝无可能（There is NO universe）让我用闪存盘携带 1 亿美元的\n24 BTC 前往迪拜。”\n25 问：什么是 BTC？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 主问\n1 答：那是 Bitcoin（比特币）的首字母缩写。\n2 问：你为什么写“绝无可能让我用闪存盘携带 1 亿美元的 BTC 比特币前往迪拜”？\n3 你为什么把这句话发给 William Je（余建明）？\n4 答：在讨论中——当我们在发这些消息时，\n5 威廉问我是否对此持开放态度。\n6 问：对什么持开放态度？\n7 答：用闪存盘携带 1 亿美元的 BTC。\n8 问：他是否提供了任何信息，余建明是否提供了任何\n9 关于他为什么要你这么做的信息？\n10 答：没有。\n11 问：你为什么拒绝？\n12 答：有很多原因。也许首要的是我的\n13 人身安全；第二是，这会规避每一项\n14 BSI——BSA（《银行保密法》/ Bank Secrecy Act）的要求；而且我相当确定——我不记得\n15 具体的法律是什么时候通过的，但未经申报\n16 携带超过 10,000 美元的价值跨越国境\n17 可能构成一项重罪。\n18\n19 问：所以你拒绝了。\n20 答：是的。\n21 MR. FINKEL：好的。洛夫特斯女士，请向下滚动。\n22\n23 就在那里。\n24 问：那么在 2022年3月17日 晚上 11:38，你能读一下\n25 余建明给你发了什么消息吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 主问\n1 答：抱歉。几点？\n2 问：晚上 11:38。\n3 答：你要我读出来吗？\n4 问：是的，请读。\n5 答：“您好，能否帮忙查一下以下账户是否已经\n6 开立？如果尚未开立，是否存在未决问题？\n7 “-UK Himalaya Ltd.（英国喜马拉雅有限公司）。\n8 “-董事：Jianfeng Dai（戴建峰）。”\n9 他的电子邮件，然后他说“谢谢”。\n10 问：你知道 David Dai（大卫·戴）是谁吗？\n11 答：我对那个人没有印象。\n12 问：据你理解，余建明为什么要向你询问\n13 这名个人，即戴先生的情况？\n14 答：我不记得我们真正谈论过他。我认为他\n15 是 UK Himalaya Ltd. 的签署人，那会——我不确定\n16 我们是否讨论过该运营实体账户的用途。\n17 MR. FINKEL：我们可以撤下该文件了。\n18 问：柯林斯先生，余建明是否曾就一笔贷款\n19 请求你协助进行资金转账？\n20\n21 答：是的。\n22 问：那大约是什么时候？\n23 答：我记得大约是在 22 年的复活节前后。\n24 问：关于这笔贷款，余先生对你说了什么？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 主问\n1 答：该贷款是提供给与 Mr. Guo（郭先生）破产案相关的\n2 托管账户（escrow account），作为他们从美国转移到\n3 地中海的一项重大抵押物（即一艘大型游艇）的担保，\n4 该贷款是为了及时满足法院的要求，因为他们没有时间\n5 将游艇开回美国，而且这是一笔为了促成郭先生获得自由的\n6 短期贷款。\n7\n8 问：你这话是什么意思？\n9 答：我被告知如果不能立即促成该笔贷款，\n10 他就会被监禁。\n11 问：郭先生？\n12 答：是的。\n13 问：是余先生告诉你的？\n14 答：是的。\n15 问：抵押物是什么？根据你与余先生的这次对话，\n16 你能解释一下按照你的理解这是如何运作的吗？\n17\n18 答：在正常的借贷安排中，贷方会收取抵押物\n19 作为贷款的担保，因此如果贷款未获偿还，\n20 他们可以取消该抵押物的赎回权并将其出售以偿还贷款。\n21\n22 问：那么抵押物被移出境外的争议是什么？你能解释一下吗？\n23\n24 答：我的理解——我不是律师，但是——破产\n25 托管人（trustee）对于破产财产（estate）的一些重大资产\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 主问\n1 被转移到美国司法管辖范围之外感到不满。\n2 问：谁的破产财产？\n3 答：郭先生的。\n4 问：哪起破产案的破产律师？\n5 答：郭先生的破产案。\n6 问：根据你从谈话中的理解，什么类型的资产被移出了司法管辖区？\n7\n8 答：游艇。\n9 问：什么游艇？\n10 答：我不记得它的名字了。\n11 问：那么这笔贷款将如何解决余先生和\n12 郭先生的问题？\n13 MR. KAMARAJU：反对。\n14 THE COURT：反对成立。\n15 问：根据余先生对你说的内容，这笔贷款将如何协助解决这个问题？\n16\n17 MR. KAMARAJU：同前反对。\n18 THE COURT：反对成立。\n19 是否有贷款请求？\n20 THE WITNESS：该请求并非向我借款。正在发放的\n21 贷款是由余建明和他的一家——他的其中一家公司提供给 Miles Guo（郭文贵）的一名亲属，\n22 我想该亲属在银行被列为所有人，\n23 但托管人已将这艘游艇认定为破产财产的重大资产。\n24\n25 BY MR. FINKEL：\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 主问\n1 问：那么如果这不是来自你的贷款，商业银行对于这笔\n2 潜在贷款的作用是什么？\n3 答：我们只是将余建明控制下的资金电汇\n4 至参与本案的一名律师的托管账户。\n5 问：关于余建明的账户，你知道它与什么业务相关联吗？\n6\n7 答：我依稀记得是喜马拉雅的实体之一，\n8 但我不记得具体是哪一个了。\n9 问：当你说是喜马拉雅的实体时，是什么的实体？\n10 答：在我们这里开有账户的喜马拉雅公司之一。\n11 问：是指喜马拉雅交易所？\n12 答：是的。\n13 问：在当时看来，这是一笔合理的商业交易吗？\n14\n15 答：这很不寻常，但看起来合情合理。\n16 问：你提到该过程中涉及一名女性？\n17\n18 答：是的，那个——我不记得了——我没有看到该游艇的实际产权文件，\n19 但我的理解是该贷款是提供给破产——嗯，我不记得贷款的\n20 签署人是谁了，但那是我以前从未见过的人。被宣称为\n21 郭文贵的亲属，我认为其姓名实际上列在游艇产权上。\n22\n23\n24 问：Mercantile Bank（商业银行）是否协助将这笔电汇款项从喜马拉雅实体汇至该贷款的托管账户？\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 主问\n1 答：是的。是的。\n2 问：好的。\n3 MR. FINKEL：根据……政府方出示——请允许我\n4 稍等片刻。\n5 （律师商议）\n6 MR. FINKEL：根据关于银行记录文件的一项规定协议，\n7 政府方出示证据 GX MER138。\n8 MR. KAMARAJU：无异议，法官阁下。\n9 THE COURT：予以采纳。\n10 （政府方证据 MER138 已被采纳为证据）\n11 BY MR. FINKEL：\n12 问：顺便问一下，柯林斯先生，余建明如果曾对你说过的话，关于他与\n13 郭文贵的关系性质，他对你说了什么？\n14 答：你指的是具体某个时间点还是——\n15 问：总体而言。\n16 答：他提到郭文贵是他最好的朋友，郭文贵\n17 比世界上任何人都更信任他，而且\n18 他们非常亲密。\n19 问：你能在屏幕上看到政府方证据 MER138 吗？我\n20 认为它已经公开展示了，但是——\n21 答：能看到。\n22 问：这是什么类型的文件？你认得这种格式吗？\n23\n24 答：看起来像商业银行的月度对账单。\n25 问：这份月度对账单所属实体的名称是什么？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 主问\n1\n2 答：Himalaya International Financial Group Ltd.（喜马拉雅国际金融集团有限公司）。\n3 问：那是喜马拉雅/余建明的账户之一吗？\n4 答：是的。\n5 问：你看到在金额一栏写着减去\n6 3700 万（minus 37 million）吗？\n7 答：看到了。\n8 问：那是什么？\n9 答：我相信那就是我们电汇的、与该游艇以及托管账户中的贷款相关的金额。\n10\n11 问：上面还写着 Zeisler & Zeisler, PC IOLTA account（Zeisler & Zeisler 律师事务所客户信托账户/托管账户）。\n12 你看到了吗？\n13 答：看到了。\n14 问：据你理解，Zeisler & Zeisler, PC IOLTA 账户是什么意思？\n15\n16 答：那就是我一直提到的托管账户。\n17 问：所以这笔 3700 万美元的电汇就是你之前谈到的贷款？\n18\n19 答：那是威廉和喜马拉雅向郭文贵发放的一笔贷款。\n20 问：贷款处理完毕后，余先生有什么反应（如果有的话）？\n21\n22 答：我只想更正我刚才说的话。我不知道贷款是提供给郭文贵的。它与郭文贵的\n23 破产财产有关，但从技术层面来说，我认为该贷款是提供给\n24 另外一个人的。\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins（柯林斯）- 控方直接询问\n\n问：好的。在处理完这笔电汇后，如果有的话，Je 先生（余建明）有什么反应？\n\n答：处理完之后的反应？我认为他很感激我们能这么快处理好这件事。\n\nFINKEL 先生：Loftus 女士，你可以撤下那个了。\n\n问：除了 Himalaya Exchange（喜马拉雅交易所）与 Mercantile Bank（商业银行）开展的业务往来之外，如果有的话，你还与 William Je（余建明）进行过哪些业务讨论？\n\n答：或许你可以为我缩小一下那个问题的范围。\n\n问：除了在 Mercantile Bank 开设账户之外，你是否考虑过与 Je 先生达成某项商业交易？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：那项交易的性质是什么？\n\n答：在合作初期，我们讨论过投资于该交易所——抱歉——投资于我们的银行——严格来说是我们的控股公司——他确实进行了初始投资。随后，那次对话演变成了规模大得多的讨论，实质上是关于购买该银行的控股权。\n\n问：抱歉。那是谁在考虑购买该银行的控股权？\n\n答：William Je，通过其名下的一家我认为叫作 Hamilton Special Opportunities Fund（汉密尔顿特别机会基金）的实体。\n\n问：你所说的该银行，是指 Mercantile 吗？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：关于向 William Je 的公司出售 Mercantile Bank 控股权的谈判进行到了什么程度？\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 控方直接询问\n\n问：向 William Je 的公司出售 Mercantile Bank 控股权的谈判？\n\n答：按照我们所商定的条款，谈判促成了在 9 月 16 日的实际成交。\n\n问：Je 先生愿意为收购 Mercantile 的控股权支付的大致价格是多少？\n\n答：最终他将投资近一亿美元。第一期款项是 4950 万美元。\n\n问：是否有监管机构对 Mercantile Bank 进行监管？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：该监管机构的名称是什么？\n\n答：如果你愿意这么称呼的话，我们的审慎监管机构是一家最常用其首字母缩写来指称的机构，名为 OCIF（波多黎各金融机构专员公署），即 O-C-I-F。它是波多黎各的银行监管机构。\n\n问：关于 William Je 对 Mercantile Bank 的潜在收购，Je 先生是否需要向 OCIF 作出任何陈述？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：关于 Miles Guo（郭文贵）的陈述？\n\n答：关于很多事情，但是——\n\n问：Je 先生被要求向 OCIF 作出的陈述中，是否有部分是关于 Miles Guo 的？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：关于 Miles Guo，如果有的话，Je 先生向 OCIF 陈述了什么？\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 控方直接询问\n\n答：Miles 不是 UBO（最终实益拥有人），实际进行投资的基金所涉资金均不属于 Miles Guo 的资金或财产。\n\n问：据你所知，他是否作出了这些陈述？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：将 Mercantile 出售给 Hamilton Special Opportunities 的这笔交易原定何时交割？\n\n答：最初的交割日期定在 8 月 24 日，我们不得不将其顺延至 9 月 16 日。\n\n法庭：哪一年的？\n\n证人：2022 年的。\n\n问：该交易是否在 2022 年 9 月 16 日完成了交割？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：Mercantile 是否在 2022 年 9 月 16 日收到了最终付款？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：Mercantile 预计在 2022 年 9 月 16 日收到多少款项？\n\n答：4950 万美元。\n\n问：为什么 Mercantile 没有在 2022 年 9 月 16 日获得这 4950 万美元？\n\n答：我们为什么没收到？\n\n问：是的。\n\n答：这笔钱在流转途中被 U.S. Marshals（美国法警局）查扣了。\n\n问：你是如何得知那一情况的？\n\n答：嗯——\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 控方直接询问\n\n问：起初。\n\n答：这笔电汇是在美国的一个周五下午发起的，当天没有完成结算我们并不感到奇怪，纯粹是因为时间太晚了。所以到了周一，我们就在查找这笔电汇。我们当时在伦敦。电汇款项一直没有出现。周二也没到账。我想到了周三，我们意识到出问题了。\n\n问：你就潜在的问题与 Je 先生交谈过吗？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：他是怎么说的？\n\n答：他说他们没有收到来自他们银行的任何通知，不知道电汇为何没有结算，我让他们去调查一下，并且我也询问他们我是否也可以去调查一下。\n\n问：你调查了吗？\n\n答：我调查了。\n\n问：你了解到了什么？\n\n答：我恰好认识 Silvergate Bank（银门银行）的首席执行官，这笔电汇就是从该银行发出的，所以我给他打了电话，我们进行了一次简短的交谈，想知道这笔电汇在哪里，他对此一无所知，于是他说他会去查一下。第二天我收到了他的一封电子邮件，称他无法就该账户作进一步讨论，并且他——我应当让账户持有人立即与他们联系。\n\n问：你照做了吗？\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 控方直接询问\n\n答：我照做了。\n\n问：接下来发生了什么？\n\n答：William 和 Priya 与他们取得了联系，我想他们通了电话，正是那时才透露出该笔电汇已被查扣。\n\n问：在查扣之后，Je 先生是否提出过任何关于 Himalaya Exchange 的请求？\n\n答：我不——我的意思是，当时有很多次对话和几项请求，所以或许你可以为我缩小范围。\n\n问：好的。\n\nFINKEL 先生：如果我们能向证人展示标示为政府物证 MER1205 的待辨认物证。请向下滚动以便 Collins 先生能查看这份文件。\n\n问：Collins 先生，这份文件 MER1205 是什么？\n\n答：这是我和 William Je 之间的一系列 WhatsApp 通信记录。\n\n问：日期是哪一天？\n\n答：2022 年 9 月 23 日。\n\nFINKEL 先生：政府方提请出示物证 MER1205。\n\nKAMARAJU 先生：无异议。\n\n法庭：予以采纳。\n\n（政府物证 MER1205 获准作为证据采纳）\n\nFINKEL 先生：请向陪审团出示该物证。Loftus 女士，请在顶部放大。\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO1 Collins - 控方直接询问\n\n可以了。\n\n由 FINKEL 先生继续询问：\n\n问：第一条信息写道：“我将在 11 点与 Mahsud 通话。”是这样吗？那是你发出的吗？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：Mahsud 是谁？\n\n答：Ehsan Mahsud 是——对外公开的身份是 Himalaya Exchange 的首席财务官。\n\n问：那你为什么问他是否清楚正在发生的事情？\n\n答：这些——对我来说，这些是非常不寻常的情况，我不想陷入在错误的时间对错误的人说出不合时宜之话的境地，部分原因在于商业责任，因此我只是想了解 Ehsan 对周围正在发生的事情了解多少，因为那段时期——那段时期非常混乱，周围流传着大量极端的资讯，我只是想谨慎行事。\n\n（续见下一页）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 控方直接询问\n\n由 FINKEL 先生继续询问：\n\n问：我只是想请你把麦克风稍微往下调一点，以便大家都能听到你的声音。Collins 先生，当你说清楚正在发生的事情时，“正在发生的事情”指的是什么？\n\n答：好几件事。包括 Silvergate 的资金被冻结或查扣。我们得知 FV Bank——另一家我们熟悉的银行——也遭遇了与 Himalaya 体系相关的大额查扣，而我们不知道外面还有什么其他情况。总的来说我只想说，我的问题是他是否清楚与查扣相关正在发生的事情，因为即便是最高级别的管理人员也不一定能实时知情。\n\n问：然后在下面的几条信息中，William Je 在上午 9:03 说：“我们只是在为客户办理正常的赎回。谢谢。”我读得对吗？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：根据你的理解，那是什么意思？\n\n答：赎回通常意味着他们正在将 HDO 换成现金，或将 HCN 换成现金。\n\n问：根据你的理解，为什么 Je 先生此时会谈及为客户办理正常赎回？\n\nKAMARAJU 先生：反对。\n\n法庭：你可以说明你对该陈述的理解。\n\n答：好的，我的理解是，此时此刻他想为一名普通客户将 Himalaya Exchange 上的一种代币赎回为美元。\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 控方直接询问\n\n问：在首次查扣发生后的那个时候，Je 先生是否指明了该客户是谁？\n\n答：起初没有。\n\n问：起初 Je 先生是如何描述该客户的？\n\n答：他将其描述为——嗯，他只说是为客户办理正常赎回，我相信后来他提到那是一位贵宾客户。\n\n问：在从你提到的银行发生查扣后不久，Je 先生为该客户寻求的赎回金额是多少？\n\n答：在 42000 到 50000——5000 万美元之间。\n\n问：Je 先生是否向 Mercantile Bank 提供了推进此项赎回的文件？\n\n答：是的。\n\n法庭：在赎回中，资金是从哪里流向哪里？\n\n证人：我想说这里存在一个用词概念上的问题，就某种意义而言，他在这里所谓的赎回，我们会认为是交易，所以他是卖出他的 HCN 以换取美元。他称之为赎回，是因为他们恰好控制着该平台，因此他们可以通过选定一个价值来进行赎回。但后来我相信他们向我们发送了我们称之为交易确认书的文件，实际表明这更像是一笔交易，而非赎回。\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 控方直接询问\n\n答：更类似于交易而非赎回。\n\n问：如果要办理赎回，如果赎回或交易要得到处理，Mercantile 会协助落实何种现实中的操作？\n\n答：嗯，在我们对他所称的赎回中所扮演的角色纯粹就是电汇资金。我们不参与交易本身。我们不参与赎回的具体机制。我们只是响应请求。我们索取支持性文件，因为这符合我们银行的 Bank Secrecy Act（《银行保密法》）要求。\n\n问：Loftus 女士，如果我们可以把那个撤下，并向证人展示标示为政府物证 MER-5 和 MER-6 的文件。Collins 先生，是谁签署了这些文件？\n\n答：William Je。\n\n问：这些文件是什么？\n\n答：这些就是我会称之为交易确认书的文件。\n\n问：这是否与我们刚才讨论的交易有关？\n\n答：是的。\n\nFINKEL 先生：政府方提请出示 MER-5 和 6。\n\nKAMARAJU 先生：无异议。\n\n法庭：予以采纳。\n\n（政府物证 MER-5 和 MER-6 获准作为证据采纳）\n\n由 FINKEL 先生继续询问：\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 控方直接询问\n\n问：Loftus 女士，请向陪审团出示。Collins 先生，根据你的理解，为什么会向 Mercantile 提供这两份你所说的交易确认书文件？\n\n答：我推测这是与我们合规职能相关的文书收集工作的一部分。\n\n问：在屏幕左侧显示卖方出售 1,308,000 余枚 HCN，单价为每枚 HCN 24.46 美元，卖方收到 3200 万 HDO。你看到了吗？\n\n答：看到了。\n\n问：根据你的理解，那是什么意思？\n\n答：那意味着卖方——就列在正下方，显示卖方账户名称为 William K. Je@ACap.com——正在卖出 HDO——抱歉。他是在卖出 HCN 以换取 HDO。\n\n问：当时向你描述的 HDO 是什么？\n\n答：一种稳定美元。抱歉，一种稳定币。\n\n问：当时向你描述的 HDO 价格是多少？\n\n答：价格始终等于一，因为它是按一比一由稳定——抱歉，由美元支持的。\n\n问：向你描述的 HCN 又是什么？\n\n答：HCN 是一种数字资产，更类似于像 Bitcoin（比特币）这样的真正加密代币。\n\n问：那就是向你描述的方式吗？\n\n答：是的。\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 直接询问\n\n问：那么通过出售这笔 HCN，上面写着卖家收到 3200 万 HDO，折合美元价值是多少？\n\n答：3200 万美元。\n\n问：看到卖家账户的名称后，这是否向 Mercantile（商业银行）提供了关于这位贵宾客户是谁的任何信息？\n\n答：我相信我们的合规部门当时就已经注意到了。\n\n问：那么，余先生所说他协助赎回的这位贵宾客户是谁？\n\n答：是 William K——嗯，要么是 William Je（余建明），要么是一家名为 ACA Capital 的公司。\n\n问：屏幕右侧的文件上写着卖家出售 572,000 多枚 HCN，卖家收到 1400 万 HDO，据你理解，这 1400 万 HDO 折合美元价值是多少？\n\n答：1400 万。\n\n问：那么 3200 万加上 1400 万是多少？\n\n答：4600 万。\n\n问：这就是余建明在银行扣押发生后不久请求转账的金额吗？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：在得知这笔转账、这笔赎回的客户是余建明或 ACA Cap 后，你对此有什么反应（如果有的话）？\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 直接询问\n\n答：我不记得有什么特别的反应，只是很恼火他从一开始就没有坦诚说明。\n\n问：没有坦诚说明什么？\n\n答：这是由他控制的账户。\n\n问：谁刚刚说这是一个账户——\n\n答：抱歉，是余建明。\n\n问：Loftus 女士，麻烦请重新调出 MER-1205。请翻到下一页。能否从上午 9:03 那一行放大。\n在上午 9:03，余先生说：“我们只是在为客户办理正常的赎回”，对吗？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：据你理解，该赎回指的是哪笔交易（如果有的话）？\n\n答：就是我们刚才看的那笔交易。\n\n问：往下几行，在下午 12:31，余先生说：“你们 ACA 需要什么文件？我都可以发给你们。”你看到了吗，先生？\n\n答：看到了。\n\n问：据你理解，余先生为什么要询问你需要 ACA 的哪些文件？\n\nKAMARAJU 先生：反对。\n\n法庭：允许提问。\n\n答：你能再问一遍这个问题吗？\n\n问：据你理解，余先生为什么要问你（Collins 先生）需要 ACA 的哪些文件？\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 直接询问\n\n答：William 知道我们执行严格的合规职能。为了让我们发送如此大额的交易，我们必须对接收方和发送方进行所谓的 KYC（了解你的客户）审查，而发送方我们之前已经做过了。\n\n法庭：你说的 KYC 是什么意思？\n\n证人：抱歉。是“了解你的客户”（Know Your Customer）。这是指确保你了解接收 5000 万美元——嗯，4600 万美元——的人的真实资质与信誉。\n\n问：在此时，据你理解 ACA 是什么？\n\n答：在合作初期的一些新闻报道中我偶然看到过 ACA，除了知道它是与余建明有关联的实体之外，对其了解不多，仅此而已。\n\n问：在你们进行这次对话时，即 2022 年 9 月 23 日，在银行扣押、电汇扣押发生后不久，你是否考虑处理余先生所请求的这笔交易？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：为什么没有？\n\n答：很明显出问题了。当时我们统计到美国政府在另外两家银行总共扣押了大约 12 亿美元。\n\n问：Collins 先生，如果你不打算处理这笔转账，那为什么还要向余先生索取文件呢？\n\n答：嗯，我们在商业上有责任考量客户的请求，我们当时正在这样做。\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 直接询问\n\n答：请求，我们当时正在做这件事。\n\n问：麻烦请往下滚动一点，Loftus 女士。\n在下午 1:37，你能读一下余先生写了什么吗？\n\n答：下午 1:37？\n\n问：是的，先生。\n\n答：好的。“我可以把所有文件都发给你，以证明我拥有 ACA。你还需要通过你们的门户网站吗？我们需要今天执行，否则就毫无意义了。”\n\n问：当时据你理解，为什么必须在今天执行，否则就毫无意义？\n\n答：我对此无法理解。我对这个用词感到困惑。\n\n问：你为什么对“毫无意义”这个词感到困惑？\n\n答：因为——在我看来，这似乎并非毫无意义。\n\n问：Loftus 女士，我们能再往下滚动一些吗。\n你能读一下余先生在 2022 年 9 月 23 日下午 4:03 写了什么吗？\n\n答：“把 ACA 的所有资料都发给你。我在香港有一些最新资料，但我认为这些资料已经绰绰有余了。我们只是在赎回。”\n\n问：据你理解，“只是在赎回”这个词是什么意思？\n\n答：他们正在将其持有的资产变现为美元。\n\n问：然后在下午 4:50，你能读一下余先生写了什么吗？\n\n答：“Masud 不知道 ACA 的事。如有任何疑问，请致电给我。谢谢。”\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 直接询问\n\n答：谢谢。\n\n问：你能读一下余先生在同一天（9 月 23 日）晚上 8:12 写了什么吗？\n\n答：“如果需要进一步信息，请告诉我。我们正在赎回，需要在今天完成。否则就毫无意义了。”\n\n问：在电汇被扣押后，余先生是否向你解释过这次赎回的紧迫性何在？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：你可以把那个撤下来了。请展示被标记为政府第 MER-8 号证据的文件。\n顺便问一下，在我们刚才看过的那些信息中，余先生是否将他在银行业务上遇到的麻烦归咎于中国共产党？\n\n答：我不记得了。\n\n问：你在屏幕上能看到 MER-8 吗？\n\n答：能。\n\n问：看一下那份文件。是谁签署的？\n\n答：余建明。\n\n问：这是一份什么文件？\n\n答：这看起来被称为赎回申请表，但它实际上是一份电汇资金申请。\n\nFINKEL 先生：政府方提呈第 MER-8 号证据。\n\nKAMARAJU 先生：无异议。\n\n法庭：予以采纳。\n\n（政府方第 MER-8 号证据已采纳为证据）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 直接询问\n\nFINKEL 先生继续询问：\n\n问：你说这是一份赎回申请表，但它实际上是什么？\n\n答：这是一份向名为 First Abu Dhabi Bank（阿布扎比第一银行）的银行转账资金的申请。\n\n问：First Abu Dhabi Bank 账户的账户持有人是谁？\n\n答：ACA Capital Group Limited。\n\n问：First Abu Dhabi Bank 位于何处？\n\n答：阿联酋的阿布扎比。\n\n问：你可以把那个缩小。底部写着“HDO 赎回金额”。你看到了吗？\n\n答：看到了。\n\n问：该金额为 4600 万 HDO，据你当时理解，其折合美元价值是多少？\n\n答：4600 万美元。\n\n问：这 4600 万是否与我们之前看过的、你当时与余先生聊天记录中的交易文件相关？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：余先生要求将这笔 4600 万美元汇往中东这一事实，对作为银行家的你产生了什么影响（如果有的话）？\n\n答：抱歉。你能再问一遍这个问题吗？\n\n问：在与这次未首先指明客户身份的赎回相关的电汇扣押发生后，余先生请求将 4600 万美元汇往阿布扎比，这一事实对你考量是否处理这笔电汇产生了什么影响？\n\nKAMARAJU 先生：反对，形式问题且属于复合问题。\n\n法庭：反对成立。这是复合问题。\n\n问：余先生要求你将这笔电汇汇往阿布扎比这一事实，对你作为银行家考量是否处理该业务产生了什么影响？\n\n答：感觉很不妥。这看起来像是一次试图将资金转移至美国管辖范围之外的企图。我们不清楚阿联酋和美国之间的各项协议，但众所周知，这是一个并不总是配合扣押行动的司法管辖区。\n\n问：你处理了这笔电汇吗？\n\n答：没有。\n\n问：我们可以展示被标记为待识别证据的 MER-1206。Loftus 女士，请翻到下一页。你能放大一下以便 Collins 先生能看清吗。谢谢。\n这是什么文件？\n\n答：这是我和 William 之间更多的信息往来。\n\nFINKEL 先生：政府方提呈第 MER-1206 号证据。\n\nKAMARAJU 先生：无异议，法官大人。\n\n法庭：予以采纳。\n\nFINKEL 先生：麻烦请向法庭出示公示。\n\n（政府方第 MER-1206 号证据已采纳）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 直接询问\n\nFINKEL 先生继续询问：\n\n问：麻烦请向法庭出示公示。这些信息的日期是哪一天？\n\n答：2022 年 9 月 24 日。\n\n问：你能读一下余先生在晚上 11:14 发给你的信息吗？\n\n答：可以。“嗨，Bo，Rene、Priya 和我们的律师今天谈过了。我们的律师正在与 DOJ（美国司法部）谈判，并解冻资金以完成交易。我们需要你们银行出具一封简单的信函，以证明如果交易不成功你们将遭受损失。如果你们想就此事通知 PMA，我们没意见。我可以向你保证，这笔钱没有一分来自 Miles（郭文贵）和我们的独立基金管理人。我们的内部合规部门和银行监管机构已经核实了这一点。Rene 似乎对此持怀疑态度，甚至就此询问了我们的律师。这将危害我们与我们律师的关系。”\n\n问：Rene 是谁？\n\n答：Rene Carson 是 MGH 和 MBI 的总法律顾问。\n\n问：也就是 Mercantile？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：除了作为总法律顾问之外，你与 Rene Carson 的关系性质是什么？\n\n答：她是我的妻子。\n\n问：这里写着“想通知 PMA”，PMA 是什么？\n\n答：PMA 是波多黎各一家代表 Hamilton Opportunity Fund（汉密尔顿机遇基金）的律师事务所。\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 直接询问\n\n答：Hamilton Opportunity Fund。\n\n问：当余先生给你发信息说“Rene 似乎对此持怀疑态度，甚至就此询问了我们的律师。这将危害我们与我们律师的关系”时，据你理解他是什么意思？\n\n答：他是在回复我上面那条写着“我对刚刚听到的事情感到震惊”的信息，也就是他不想让我们按照商业协议的要求发出任何违约终止的通知。所以他不想让我们就此事件的情况与 PMA 沟通。\n\n问：他是谁，“他”指的是谁？\n\n答：William 和 Priya 不想让我们就此事件的情况与他们的律师沟通。\n\n问：你所说的“此事件”，是指什么？\n\n答：扣押事件。\n\n问：余先生是否向你解释过，为什么他不想让 Mercantile 就扣押一事与余的律师沟通？\n\n答：他在底部写道，这会危害我们与我们律师的关系。\n\n问：余是否解释过为什么扣押事件会危害他们与他们律师的关系？\n\n答：他没有向我提供细节。\n\n问：在这条信息中，余先生还请求你们银行 Mercantile 出具一封简单的信函，以证明如果交易不成功你们将遭受损失？\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 直接询问\n1 没有通过。就您的理解，那是什么\n2 意思？\n3 答：他们当时向我们表示，他们那时每天都与\n4 DOJ（美国司法部）沟通，他们\n5 要求至少解冻4950万美元，因为这\n6 正在损害第三方的利益，并且他们希望我们对此予以证实。\n7 问：Mercantile（梅肯泰尔）是否提供了一封信函？\n8 答：我认为是的。\n9 问：在下面写着，“我可以向你保证，没有一分\n10 钱来自Miles以及我们的独立基金管理人。”\n11 就您的理解，Miles指的是谁？\n12 答：Miles Guo（郭文贵）。\n13 问：Mercantile是否收到了来自美国政府的令状，即扣押令？\n14\n15 答：起初我们收到了冻结令，随后收到了扣押令。\n16 问：什么是冻结？\n17 答：冻结意味着我们不能把这笔钱转移到任何地方。\n18 问：该冻结涉及哪些账户？\n19 答：我认为是与William Je（余建明）相关的所有账户。\n20 问：随后您说收到了扣押令，扣押与冻结之间有何\n21 区别？\n22 答：扣押意味着我们实际将资金电汇至美国\n23 法警署，资金便归由美国政府羁押监管。\n24\n25 问：Mercantile是否照做了，Mercantile是否将\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 直接询问\n1 Himalaya（喜马拉雅）的资金转移给了美国政府？\n2 答：是的。\n3 问：Mercantile是否保留了原本存放在\n4 Himalaya和G/Club账户中的任何款项？\n5 答：是的。\n6 问：为什么？\n7 答：我们在合同中有商业条款，允许\n8 我们抵扣与账户相关的合规费用和法律费用。\n9\n10 问：由于该情况，您是否与Hamilton（汉密尔顿）\n11 产生了法律纠纷？\n12 答：我不记得在该问题上有法律纠纷，但我对此\n13 记忆有些模糊。\n14 问：您是否与Hamilton有任何法律纠纷，您指的是\n15 Mercantile？\n16 答：有的。实际上，我认为除了我们\n17 申请了仲裁之外，并没有其他纠纷。\n18 问：您说的“我们”，是指Mercantile吗？\n19 答：Mercantile Global Holdings（梅肯泰尔全球控股）。\n20 问：Mercantile为什么申请仲裁？\n21 答：因为他们未能履行交割要求？\n22 问：“他们”是谁？\n23 答：Hamilton Special Opportunity Fund（汉密尔顿特别机会基金）。\n24 问：是否也与G/Club存在仲裁？\n25 答：我认为有一项待决仲裁已被中止。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 FINKEL先生：请稍候。目前\n2 没有其他问题了。谢谢您，Collins先生。\n3 法庭：反询问。\n4 KAMARAJU先生：谢谢法官阁下。出于\n5 安排考虑，我们是在11点还是\n6 11点30分进行上午休庭？\n7 法庭：11点30分我们将休庭半小时，\n8 然后在2点30分再进行一次休庭。\n9 KAMARAJU先生：谢谢法官阁下。\n10 反询问\n11 由KAMARAJU先生进行：\n12 问：早上好，Collins先生。\n13 答：早上好。\n14 问：现在，能否请调出政府方物证 MER-1205，\n15 该物证已采纳为证据。\n16 Finkel先生在直接询问中问过您关于该物证的一些问题，对吗？\n17\n18 答：我想是的。我只看到了文件头。\n19 问：我们可以快速滚动浏览一下，以便您查看。\n20 答：是的，这就是我们讨论的内容。\n21 问：这是关于赎回请求的Whatsapp信息\n22 往来记录，对吗？\n23 答：是的。\n24 问：您在直接询问中作证说该赎回请求\n25 从未发生，对吗？撤回该问题。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 您在直接询问中作证说，您从未根据该赎回请求\n2 电汇过任何款项，对吗？\n3 答：我们没有电汇。\n4 问：事实上，您根本从未打算根据该赎回请求\n5 电汇任何款项，对吗？\n6 答：没错。\n7 问：能否请翻到该文件的第三页。\n8 您是否看到Je先生在晚上9点03分发来的一条信息，\n9 倒数第二条？\n10 答：“Hi, please hold until Monday.”（嗨，请暂缓至周一。）\n11 问：他指的是这个赎回请求，对吗？\n12 答：是的。\n13 问：而您从未告诉过他您不打算执行\n14 该赎回请求，对吗？\n15 答：我从未告诉过他。\n16 问：所以，事实上是Je先生主动取消了该请求，\n17 对吗？\n18 答：是的。\n19 问：那是在您处理该请求之前，对吗？\n20 答：是的。\n21 问：我们可以先把这个放下来一会儿。\n22 现在，您所描述的Hamilton与Mercantile Bank（梅肯泰尔银行）之间的交易，\n23 是为了让Hamilton收购\n24 该银行的股份，对吗？\n25 答：严格来说是全资拥有该银行的控股公司，\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 但大致是这样。\n2 问：因此是通过收购控股公司的权益来间接收购该银行，\n3 对吗？\n4 答：对。\n5 问：我相信您在直接询问中作证说该交易\n6 于2022年9月16日完成交割，对吗？\n7 答：是的。\n8 问：在交易交割之前，您必须获得\n9 您称之为OCIF（波多黎各金融机构专员公署）的机构的授权批准？\n10 答：没错。\n11 问：您向OCIF提交了申请，对吗？\n12 答：我认为严格来说申请是由William Je\n13 和Hamilton Special Opportunity Fund提交的。\n14 问：Mercantile作为其中一部分，难道没有向OCIF提交任何材料吗？\n15\n16 答：我不记得当时的要求是什么了。我们有律师\n17 在处理此事，包括内部法律顾问和外部律师。\n18 问：您知悉与该申请相关的内容是提交给\n19 监管您银行的机构的，对吗？\n20 答：没错。\n21 问：因此，履行对该监管机构的承诺对您而言很重要，\n22 对吗？\n23 答：没错。\n24 问：事实上您在多个场合对Je先生说过这番话，\n25 对吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 答：是的。\n2 问：而且您不希望被关联——撤回该表述。\n3 您不希望您的监管机构将您与\n4 任何形式的不当行为联系在一起，对吗？\n5 答：没错。\n6 问：那会对您的银行产生负面影响，对吗？\n7 答：没错。\n8 问：递交的那份申请，无论是代表\n9 Hamilton还是Mercantile，都是在2022年4月提交的，对吗？\n10 答：听起来差不多是那个时候。\n11 问：那正好是在当年的复活节前后，对吗？\n12 答：是的，我不记得具体日期了。\n13 问：但那差不多就是贷款办理的时间，对吗？\n14 答：没错。\n15 问：现在，能否请调出政府方物证 MER-1204。\n16 该文件已采纳为证据，所以我们可以展示给陪审团。\n17 答：我这里只看得到文件头。\n18 问：在陪审团能看到后，我会让人滚动浏览。好的。能否请滚动浏览该文件以便证人\n19 能够查看。\n20\n21 您是否记得在直接询问中就这组信息\n22 往来作证？\n23 答：是的。\n24 问：您记得Finkel先生就这句话问过您问题，\n25 “无论如何我都绝不可能用U盘携带1亿美元\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 的BTC（比特币）前往迪拜”，对吗？\n2 答：是的。\n3 问：您是在2022年3月17日发送该信息的，对吗？\n4 答：是的。\n5 问：所以这是在您提交OCIF申请之前，\n6 对吗？\n7 答：我不——您能告诉我OCIF申请的提交\n8 日期吗？我不记得了。\n9 问：当然可以。或许我们可以将此物证与这份辩方——\n10 实际上，我们先撤下这个，仅向证人\n11 出示DX-60554。\n12 您看到了吗？\n13 答：看到了。\n14 问：这是那份申请吗？\n15 答：这看起来是一封致OCIF的信函。如果您能把它缩放\n16 回去的话。信中描述了该项交易。我们能否向下滚动\n17 信函以便我查看全文？\n18 问：当然。\n19 答：好的。这是由Hamilton的律师签署的。\n20 问：在我们继续之前。这是那份申请吗？\n21 答：我认为这是Hamilton提交的申请。\n22 问：这是提交给OCIF的申请吗？\n23 答：是的。\n24 问：它是与Mercantile/Hamilton\n25 交易相关的？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 答：是的。\n2 KAMARAJU先生：辩方申请将DX-60554采纳为证据，法官\n3 阁下。\n4 FINKEL先生：我有一个问题需要澄清。\n5 这是Hamilton的申请吗？\n6 证人：我不清楚。我们可以看一下最后\n7 一页。我们刚才浏览得太快了。\n8 由KAMARAJU先生继续：\n9 问：仅向证人放大第一段如何？\n10\n11 答：因此这是一份批准请求。\n12 问：抱歉。我指的是最开头的段落。\n13 答：那一段，我并不是想咬文嚼字，但它\n14 描述了我们正在请求批准该项交易，\n15 但那并不一定就是申请本身。我认为这两者有区别。\n16\n17 问：明白。这是一封就与Mercantile/Hamilton\n18 交易相关的申请提交给OCIF的信函吗？\n19\n20 答：是的。\n21 问：这是代表贵银行提交的信函吗？\n22 答：我认为是的。\n23 KAMARAJU先生：辩方申请采纳DX-60554为证据。\n24 答：我能否再看一下签署人部分。对此我有点困惑。\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 问：请便。\n2 答：好的，它是由于我们律师和Hamilton的\n3 律师签署的，所以这可能是我不记得这封信的原因，\n4 不过好的。\n5 法庭：是否有任何异议？\n6 FINKEL先生：有的。异议，传闻证据、真实性，\n7 以及其他几项理由。\n8 KAMARAJU先生：我提出该证据并非为了证明信函中的\n9 内容。我仅仅是为了证明它曾被提交过这一事实。\n10 法庭：您提出该证据并非为了证明其内容，\n11 而仅仅是为了证明该信函曾被提交的事实？\n12 KAMARAJU先生：是的。\n13 法庭：予以采纳。\n14 （被告方物证60554被采纳为证据）\n15 KAMARAJU先生：我们可以向陪审团出示吗。\n16 FINKEL先生：我可以问一个问题吗。您以前见过\n17 这封信吗？\n18 证人：凭记忆我不记得见过。\n19 FINKEL先生：我重申异议。\n20 法庭：我允许采纳该信函。\n21 问：能否请向陪审团出示。您看到这份文件的日期了吗，\n22 是2022年4月18日？\n23 答：是的。\n24 问：所以可以合理地说，在该时间，截至该日期，您\n25 仍在推进与Hamilton的交易，对吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 答：是的。\n2 问：那么现在我们能否返回并调出政府方物证\n3 MER-1204。如果我们能翻到第二页，并请\n4 放大以“There's no universe”（无论如何我都绝不可能）开头的那条信息。\n5 您看到了吗？\n6 答：看到了，先生。\n7 问：您是在2022年3月17日发送该信息的？\n8 答：是的，先生。\n9 问：您发送该信息是在我们刚才查看的信函\n10 提交给OCIF之前？\n11 答：是的，先生。\n12 问：您与Je先生关于用U盘携带1亿美元\n13 Bitgo前往迪拜的对话，没有任何内容导致您\n14 取消与Hamilton的那项交易，对吗？\n15 答：没有。\n16 问：而且您没有向OCIF报告此项请求，对吗？\n17 答：嗯，我不确定我们是否有义务向OCIF\n18 报告，但我们有义务在SARS（可疑活动报告系统）上报告。\n19 问：我并不是在问您对此事的法律理解，\n20 我只是问事实本身，即您没有向OCIF\n21 提交报告？\n22 答：是的。\n23 问：我们调出政府方物证 GX-MER-138。我们也可以\n24 向陪审团出示。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 问：这是显示贷款汇出的银行对账单，对吗？\n2\n3 答：我认为是的。\n4\n5 问：所以可以这么说，你与 Mr. Je（余建明先生）关于贷款汇出的谈话发生在这次交易之前，\n6 对吗？\n7\n8 答：是的。\n9\n10 问：电汇是在 2022 年 4 月 15 日汇出的，对吗？如果你往下看写着取款 3700 万美元的地方。\n11\n12 答：看起来是 4 月 15 日。\n13\n14 问：所以这笔贷款也是在我们刚刚看过的 OCIF（波多黎各金融机构专员办公室）信件提交之前汇出的，对吗？\n15\n16 答：对。\n17\n18 问：这笔贷款申请没有任何地方促使你取消与 Hamilton（汉密尔顿）的交易，对吗？\n19\n20 答：对。\n21\n22 问：你也没有向 OCIF 报告这笔贷款，是吗？\n23\n24 答：我不记得我们报告了什么或没报告什么，但我脑海里没有印象。\n25\n26 问：我们可以把那个撤下来了。\n27 现在，在直接询问中有人问过你一个短语，“To the moon”（去月球/冲上云霄），对吧？\n28\n29 答：是的。\n30\n31 问：你看到过一段郭先生的视频，其中使用了这个短语，对吗？\n32\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区法庭速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 答：是的。\n2\n3 问：你基本上把它描述为营销材料，对吧？\n4\n5 答：是的。\n6\n7 问：我想你说过“To the moon”这个短语最初来自于一部老黑白电视剧，对吧？\n8\n9 答：是的，我想是《The Honeymooners》（蜜月期）。\n10\n11 问：这正是我要问的。是《The Honeymooners》，对吧？\n12\n13 答：是的。\n14\n15 问：这是加密货币行业的一个常用短语，对吧？\n16\n17 答：是的。\n18\n19 问：郭先生不是唯一使用过这个短语的人，对吧？\n20\n21 答：不是。\n22\n23 问：Elon Musk（埃隆·马斯克）在谈到 Dogecoin（狗狗币）时使用过这个短语，对吗？\n24\n25 MR. FINKEL（芬克尔先生）：反对。\n26\n27 答：我不知道。\n28\n29 THE COURT（法庭）：反对成立。\n30\n31 问：你在关注加密货币行业的过程中听到过这个短语，对吗？\n32\n33 答：是的。\n34\n35 问：关于 Mercantile Bank（商业银行），据我了解它正在清算——\n36 撤回。\n37 Mercantile Bank 是一家总部位于 Puerto Rico（波多黎各）的银行，\n38\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 对吗？\n2\n3 答：是的。\n4\n5 问：它是什么时候成立的？\n6\n7 答：我相信我们是在大约 16 年 12 月——抱歉，是 18 年 12 月获得了筹建执照，并在 19 年春季开始运营。\n8\n9 问：现在，在创立 Mercantile Bank 之前，你也在考虑创办一家加密货币交易所，对吧？\n10\n11 答：那属于我们最初计划的一部分。\n12\n13 问：你打算把它命名为 San Juan Mercantile Exchange（圣胡安商业交易所），对吧？\n14\n15 答：对。\n16\n17 问：你对什么是加密货币交易所的理解是什么？\n18\n19 MR. FINKEL：反对。\n20\n21 THE COURT：反对无效。当你说曾考虑可能创办这样一家实体时，你是指你个人还是指银行？\n22\n23 THE WITNESS（证人）：控股公司。所以 Mercantile Global Holdings（商业全球控股公司）拥有两项——当时我们拥有两项资产，一项是一家银行，另一项就是我们所称的 San Juan Mercantile Exchange，两者旨在协同运作。\n24\n25 THE COURT：你可以回答关于你对什么是加密货币交易所的理解的问题。\n26\n27 答：加密货币交易所撮合特定加密资产的买方和卖方，通常兑换为某种法定货币。有时兑换为不同的加密资产。\n28\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 问：现在，San Juan Mercantile Exchange 实际上从未推出过，对吗？\n2\n3 答：对。\n4\n5 问：但作为银行的 Mercantile 确实有加密货币业务重点，对吗？\n6\n7 答：对。\n8\n9 问：我想你在直接询问中作证说，你对该银行的愿景是成为数字资产行业的结算银行。你记得吗？\n10\n11 答：是的。\n12\n13 问：什么是结算银行？\n14\n15 答：结算银行意味着我们正在促进与交易所交易相关的资金清算。\n16\n17 问：因此，如果我理解正确的话，这些资金的清算是发生在交易所完成交易之后；是这样吗？\n18\n19 答：这取决于交易是如何处理的，但可以描述为同时发生，要么是即时的，要么是在此后不久。\n20\n21 问：这就是你所说的结算的意思，对吧？\n22\n23 答：对。\n24\n25 问：你还作证说 Mercantile 是全美第一家拥有持有和转移数字资产牌照的银行，\n26\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 对吗？\n2\n3 答：对。\n4\n5 问：你所说的持有和转移数字资产是什么意思？\n6\n7 答：我们可以托管你的数字资产。我们就以 Bitcoin（比特币）为例吧。如果你想把比特币存入我们的银行，我们可以为你托管该资产。我们也可以转移它。\n8\n9 问：这是你们银行推销的产品服务之一，对吧？\n10\n11 答：是的。\n12\n13 问：我想你在直接询问中作证说，据你所知有 20,000 种加密货币？\n14\n15 答：我已经记不清具体数量了。\n16\n17 问：可以公平地说是成千上万种吗？\n18\n19 答：至少。\n20\n21 问：那么你们银行会为所有这些提供托管服务吗？\n22\n23 答：不会。\n24\n25 问：为什么你们银行可能不会为某种加密货币资产提供托管服务？\n26\n27 答：那个行业充斥着不会成功的项目。有些项目没有意识到我们必须遵守的法律。而且坦率地说，从商业角度来看，99% 的代币根本没有足够的业务——\n28\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 THE INTERPRETER（法庭口译员）：法官阁下，口译员请求各方稍微放慢语速。\n2\n3 THE COURT：请提问者和证人都放慢语速。\n4\n5 MR. KAMARAJU（卡马拉朱先生）：明白，法官阁下。\n6\n7 答：我重新开始。加密货币领域存在有问题的可疑项目，它们不一定遵守我们管辖区的法律，然后出于商业考量，接入某种特定代币所需付出的努力与其实际经济活动相关。\n8\n9 问：因此，你们银行在评估了这些因素后，会在其将要服务的加密货币之间进行挑选（暂且这么说），对吗？\n10\n11 答：对。\n12\n13 问：你还作证说 Mercantile 是一家代理行。你记得吗？\n14\n15 答：我们有一处代理行关系。\n16\n17 问：那是什么意思？什么是代理行？\n18\n19 答：通常那只是意味着两家银行互开账户。\n20\n21 问：而且当你有不同币种的交易时，通常会使用代理行业务，对吧？\n22\n23 答：那是目的之一，是的。\n24\n25 问：你能向陪审团解释一下那是如何运作的吗？\n26\n27 答：那我就试着举一个简单的例子。我认为那是\n28\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 最容易理解的方式。如果 JPMorgan（摩根大通）有一个持有美元的客户，需要购买德国的工业设备，该交易必须以欧元结算，那么他们通常会使用他们在德国一家银行开设的银行账户，在那里他们同时保留美元和欧元资金，他们只需以美元形式接收来自其美国客户的款项，然后他们将从 JPMorgan 在德国开设的欧元代理账户向德国制造商付款。因此，这同时存在价值转移以及一种货币与另一种货币之间的兑换。所以这是管理国际多币种交易最有效的方式。\n2\n3 问：对。那是因为银行用户，例如美国的 JPMorgan，可能无法直接从纽约汇出欧元到柏林，对吧？\n4\n5 答：是的，可以这么说。\n6\n7 问：对于像 Mercantile 这样的国际银行机构而言，拥有允许进行美元交易的代理行关系是相当重要的，对吧？\n8\n9 答：是的。我们在 federal reserve（联邦储备系统）没有直接账户，所以我们依赖于我们在其他银行开设的自身银行账户来代表我们的客户促成交易。\n10\n11 问：我稍后会回到联邦储备系统这个话题。\n12 在 G/Clubs 成为客户时，你们与 Medici Bank（美第奇银行）拥有代理行关系，对吗？\n13\n14 答：是的。\n15\n16\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 问：但 Medici 并不是 Mercantile 建立的第一家代理行关系，对吧？\n2\n3 答：我们在其他银行有其他账户，我想你可以将其描述为代理行。\n4\n5 问：嗯，你们与 Signature Bank（签名银行）拥有代理行关系，对吧？\n6\n7 答：对。\n8\n9 问：当你们这样做时，Mercantile 正在为——处理交易\n10\n11 答：不。不。抱歉。我说错了。我认为我们没有账户。我相信我们在 Signature Bank 的账户纯粹是一个营运账户，这与代理账户不同。\n12\n13 问：你熟悉一家叫 Bittrex 的公司吗？\n14\n15 答：熟悉。\n16\n17 问：Bittrex 曾经是 Mercantile Bank 的客户吗？\n18\n19 答：短暂做过。\n20\n21 问：你是否曾使用 Signature Bank 代表 Bittrex 处理交易？\n22\n23 MR. FINKEL：反对，根据联邦证据规则第 401 条、第 403 条。\n24\n25 THE COURT：请二位上前到法官席。\n26\n27 （接下页）\n28\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 （在法官席旁）\n2\n3 THE COURT：所有这些与本案有何关联性？\n4\n5 MR. KAMARAJU：我没有很多问题。我只是试图澄清账户的类型。根据他依据《美国法典》第 18 篇第 3500 条提供的材料，我的理解是这个客户 Bittrex 曾使用 Mercantile 通过 Signature 进行代理行业务交易，所以我只是试图对此进行澄清。我完全无意在这个话题上过多纠缠。\n6\n7 THE COURT：为什么它具有关联性？\n8\n9 MR. KAMARAJU：嗯，代理行关系是具有关联性的，仅此而已。因为他从这里转到——他失去了这种银行关系。然后他艰难地寻找另一家代理行关系。他认为这第一，与该银行位于波多黎各这一事实有关。第二，这与加密货币有关。我只是在确立事实上建立银行关系可能会很困难。这一问题在整个审判过程中都将具有关联性。\n10\n11 MR. FINKEL：我看不出 Mercantile 与其他客户的关系有何关联性，尤其是像 Bittrex 这样的客户。辩方曾提出动议以确保 Collins 先生不被当作准加密货币专家使用，这就是为什么我最初对关于加密货币交易所的问题提出反对。那个问题本身是没有问题的。我是担心界限被打破。我认为如果\n12\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 盘问\n\n辩方试图利用 Mercantile（麦肯泰尔银行）与其他客户的关系，特别是像 Bittrex 这样的加密货币客户，试图与喜马拉雅交易所（Himalaya Exchange）进行比较和类比，这是不恰当的。这是一个第 403 条规则的问题。也是一个第 702 条规则的问题，但我认为相关性问题占主导地位。虽然在本次庭审中有证据表明 G/Clubs，例如郭氏企业，在获取银行合作关系方面存在困难，但 Bittrex 获取银行合作关系的能力与本案庭审完全无关。在郭氏企业的实体与 Bittrex 之间进行比较是不恰当的，而那是该问题唯一可能具有的相关性。就其具有相关性而言，这也会对陪审团造成混淆。\n\n法庭：Bittrex 是什么？\n\nKAMARAJU 先生：它是一家加密货币交易所。\n\n法庭：这是那些被广泛认为是合法的交易所之一吗？\n\nFINKEL 先生：是的。\n\nKAMARAJU 先生：是的。但是，首先，在维持银行合作关系方面存在困难的不是 Bittrex。而是麦肯泰尔。我无意暗示任何关于 Bittrex 的银行合作关系，也无意将该交易所与 Bittrex 进行比较。我只是理解那是他与 Signature 拥有的代理银行关系。他告诉我不是。我只是试图通过至少 3500 材料中的内容来澄清这一点。我无论在此处还是在终结辩论期间，都不打算说关于 Bittrex 的任何事实，即 Bittrex 是麦肯泰尔的客户这一事实与该交易所有任何关系。我实际上只是想针对麦肯泰尔自身的银行合作关系进行提问，而不是 Bittrex。\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区法庭速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 盘问\n\nFINKEL 先生：那么问题应该是，麦肯泰尔在获取代理银行关系方面是否存在问题。仅凭这种描述本身，我认为基本上承认了 Bittrex 的问题没有相关性，因为不提及 Bittrex 也可以说明该点。我提出反对的唯一原因就是因为提到了 Bittrex。\n\nKAMARAJU 先生：我只是针对证人所说的存在代理银行关系这一事实作出的回应。我只是想回到那一点。如果你愿意，如果那是询问 Bittrex 的唯一原因，我就会问那个问题。\n\n法庭：我认为那是个更好的问题。\n\nKAMARAJU 先生：可以，法官阁下。我只想指出，证人有时对较长的问题或更宽泛的问题难以回答，这就是为什么我一开始试图更加具体。\n\n法庭：好的。\n\n（续下页）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 盘问\n\n（在公开法庭上；陪审团在场）\n\n法庭：反对成立。\n\n由 KAMARAJU 先生发问：\n\n问：是否在某个时刻，麦肯泰尔银行在获取代理银行关系方面遇到了困难？\n\n答：是的，我们总是试图维持一家以上的关系，而代理银行关系充其量也是困难的。\n\n问：而且对于设在 Puerto Rico（波多黎各）的银行来说尤其困难，对吗？\n\n答：我认为是的。\n\n问：而且对于——撤回。\n关于为什么设在波多黎各的银行难以获取代理银行关系，你的理解是什么？\n\n答：存在一种认知偏见。我不能说我是驱动这种偏见的因素方面的专家，但归根结底是由人在做决定。我认为这主要是主要问题所在。\n\n问：那么主要服务于加密货币客户的银行，在获取代理银行关系方面是否同样存在问题？\n\nFINKEL 先生：反对。\n\n法庭：准许该问题。\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：对此原因你的理解是什么？\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 盘问\n\nFINKEL 先生：与针对其他银行同样的反对理由。\n\n法庭：所以你问的是设在波多黎各的银行。问题是什么？\n\nKAMARAJU 先生：我问了设在波多黎各的银行。现在我问的是主要为加密货币客户提供便利的银行。\n\n法庭：如果你只局限于他的银行。\n\nKAMARAJU 先生：好的。\n\n问：麦肯泰尔是一家以加密货币为业务重心的银行，对吗？\n\n答：对。\n\n问：而那是你认为导致麦肯泰尔难以获取代理银行关系的因素之一，对吗？\n\n答：对。\n\n问：你为什么这样认为？\n\n答：因为我们向其提出申请的代理银行是这样向我们传达的。\n\n问：顺便问一下，你知道 Sharps Pixley 吗？\n\n答：Sharps Pixley。你能拼写一下 Sharps 吗？\n\n问：常见的拼法，S-H-A-R-P-S。\n\n答：还有 Pixley？\n\n问：P-I-X-L-E-Y。\n\n答：我不确定我对那个词是否熟悉。\n\n问：你知道 FV Bank 是什么，对吧？\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 盘问\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：FV Bank 是波多黎各的另一家银行，对吧？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：它的办公室离麦肯泰尔的办公室很近，对吧？\n\n答：我其实不知道他们的办公室在哪里。\n\n问：好吧。现在，你在主问中作证称，你最初是通过一个叫 Alex H 的人被介绍给 G/Club 的，对吧？\n\n答：不是。\n\n问：最初是谁向你介绍 G/Club 的？\n\n答：我们的引荐基本上是通过 Medici（梅迪奇）达成的，因为我们当时正在为梅迪奇处理交易，而梅迪奇当时正在为 G/Club 处理交易。\n\n问：在梅迪奇进行了引荐之后，你在家中与 Ana Izquierdo 和 Limarie Reyes 开了会，对吧？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：据你了解，她们是 G/Club 的主管人员？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：为什么那次会议是在你家里开的？\n\n答：当时对我来说比较方便。我的办公室——我相信当时还不是——我们仍处于与新冠疫情相关的异常环境中，对我来说在那里开会更方便一些。\n\n问：而且我认为你在主问中作证称，在那次会议期间并没有提及 Chinese Communist Party（中国共产党），对吧？\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 盘问\n\n答：是的，我记不得提过。\n\n问：但你也在主问中作证称，你曾与 Reyes 女士和 Izquierdo 女士进行过讨论，谈到存在一个对这类发售产品感兴趣的由志同道合的人组成的华人离散群体，你还记得吗？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：你所说的华人离散群体是什么意思？\n\n答：通常我是指离开中国、居住在其他地方的现任或前任中国公民。\n\n问：当你使用“志同道合的人”这一词语时，你的意思是什么？\n\n答：因为政治制度而想要离开中国的人。\n\n问：当你谈到这些类型的发售产品时，你指的是 G/Club 的发售产品，对吧？\n\n答：你能把那个问题再说一遍吗。\n\n问：当然。你所描述的华人离散群体成员感兴趣的那些发售产品类型，就是 G/Clubs 当时在推广发售的产品，对吗？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：现在，在你与 Reyes 女士会面时，她们正寻求更换银行，可以这么说吧？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：她们不再对梅迪奇的服务感到满意，对吗？\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 盘问\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：而她们最终确实进行了更换，对吧？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：她们是否向你解释过为什么对梅迪奇不满意？\n\n答：她们不喜欢沟通的程度，并且她们觉得技术不够充分。\n\n问：现在，一旦麦肯泰尔开设了 G/Club 的银行账户，就有数百万美元流入了这些账户，对吧？\n\n答：我想不起交易的时间线了。我相信这些交易的大部分发生在我们与 G/Clubs 建立直接关系之前。\n\n问：好吧。不论是在梅迪奇之前还是之后，都有数百万美元流入开设在麦肯泰尔的 G/Clubs 账户中，对吗？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：麦肯泰尔是如何从其银行业务中赚取收入的？\n\n答：通常我们通过交易费和利率差来赚钱，因为对于数字资产，银行通常不对资金支付任何利息。\n\n问：因此，如果有美元存放在麦肯泰尔的银行账户中，你能向我们解释一下麦肯泰尔如何从中获利吗？\n\n答：我们将其作为短期隔夜资金存入 AA 级银行，我们基本上获得联邦基金利率。而且——我记不得当时的具体利率了，但自我们成立该银行以来，该利率的范围从百分之一到高达百分之五点二五不等。\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 盘问\n\n问：因此，账户里的钱越多，银行赚的钱就越多，对吧？\n\n答：对。\n\n问：所以银行从 G/Clubs 的资金流入中赚取了同样的收益，对吧？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：在主问中，你被问到了关于麦肯泰尔对新客户进行的尽职调查流程的问题。还记得吗？\n\n答：嗯。\n\n问：你作证说你明白根据 Bank Secrecy Act（《银行保密法》）要求进行这类尽职调查，对吗？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：该流程的一部分是确定谁是 UBO，对吧？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：请再告诉我们 UBO 代表什么？\n\n答：最终受益所有人（Ultimate beneficial owner）。\n\n问：麦肯泰尔通常是如何确定谁是 UBO 的？\n\n答：我们有一个合规团队来收集数据。他们评估这些数据。他们要求人们就其拥有公司的百分比、拥有的控制权作出某些声明保证。根据这些回答，他们作出评估。\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 盘问\n\n答：（续）他们对拥有一家公司的百分比、拥有的控制权作出证明。基于这些回答，他们进行评估。\n\n问：并且你在主问中作证称，尽职调查流程的另一部分是确定资金来源，对吧？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：同样的问题，麦肯泰尔通常如何确定潜在客户汇入的资金来源？\n\n答：那是一个更复杂的过程，涉及大量研究，由我的团队负责处理。我不是那方面的专家。\n\n问：你在银行有一个负责做这件事的团队？\n\n答：对。\n\n问：现在，在 G/Club 寻求开设银行账户时，你知道 G/Clubs 与 Miles Guo（郭文贵）之间存在关系或关联，对吧？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：你在主问中作证称你对这种关联感到担忧，特别是基于风险特征以及郭先生与中国政府的历史过往，对吧？\n\n答：是的。\n\n问：你所说的他与中国政府的历史过往是什么意思？\n\n答：我的理解是他曾被指控涉嫌犯罪\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 交叉询问\n1 活动，他已经潜逃出境并在寻求庇护\n2 或已在美国获得庇护，坦率地说，\n3 那些信息量太大，我们难以消化分析。\n4 问：我没听清最后那部分。\n5 答：信息量太大，我们难以消化分析。\n6 问：你说的“消化分析”，意思是说对银行而言\n7 基本上已经足够了，对吗？\n8 答：去判定那是真是假，到底有没有\n9 犯罪，这情况非常复杂。而我们采取了\n10 较为保守的立场，认为那是我们无法承受的风险特征。\n11 问：如果郭先生是 G/Club 的 UBO（最终实益所有人），\n12 那么这种风险特征对银行来说就会成问题，对吗？\n13 答：是的。\n14 问：如果 G/Club 的资金来源是郭先生，\n15 对银行来说也会成问题，对吗？\n16 答：对。\n17 问：所以银行实际上对 G/Clubs 进行了尽职调查\n18 流程，对吗？\n19 答：对。\n20 问：你没有任何理由认为该流程与银行对其\n21 任何其他客户所进行的流程有任何不同，\n22 对吗？\n23 答：对。\n24 问：你不认为银行对 G/Club 放水了，对吧？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 交叉询问\n1 答：对。\n2 问：结果就是，该尽职调查流程显示\n3 郭先生不是 UBO，对吗？\n4 答：就我们的调查结论而言，情况确实如此。\n5 问：关于资金来源也是同样的情况，结论是\n6 资金并非来自他，对吗？\n7 答：确实如此。\n8 问：你刚才就 G Fashion（G时尚）也作了同样的证供，\n9 对吧？\n10 答：我想是的。\n11 问：所以你们为 G Fashion 开设了账户，对吗？\n12 答：是的。\n13 问：对于 G Fashion 及其与郭先生的关联，\n14 你们也有同样的担忧，对吧？\n15 答：对。\n16 问：银行对 G Fashion 进行了尽职调查，对吗？\n17 答：对。\n18 问：作为其尽职调查的结果，银行给\n19 G Fashion 开设了账户，对吧？\n20 答：是的。\n21 问：Finkel（芬克尔）先生问了你许多问题，关于如果银行\n22 当时知道郭先生对 G/Club 拥有运营控制权，\n23 银行还会不会开户，对吗？你记得\n24 那些问题吗？\n25 答：记得。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 交叉询问\n1 问：所以在银行开设 G/Club 账户的时候，\n2 银行得出的结论是郭先生对 G/Club 不拥有运营控制权，\n3 对吗？\n4 答：对。\n5 问：并且银行判定他对 G Fashion 也不拥有运营控制权，\n6 对吗？\n7 答：对。\n8 问：今天坐在这里，你从未见过任何证据表明\n9 他对 G/Club 拥有运营控制权，对吗？\n10 答：对。\n11 问：今天坐在这里，你也从未见过任何证据表明\n12 他对 G Fashion 拥有运营控制权，对吗？\n13 答：对。\n14 问：今天坐在这里，你同样从未见过任何证据表明\n15 他对 Himalaya Exchange（喜马拉雅交易所）拥有运营控制权，对吗？\n16 答：对。\n17 问：而且事实上，在你与 Je 先生（余建明）的所有谈判过程中，\n18 无论是关于收购、贷款还是赎回\n19 请求，你从未与这位郭先生沟通过，对吗？\n20 答：对。\n21 问：事实上，你从未跟郭先生说过话，对吧？\n22 答：据我所知没有。\n23 问：坐在本法庭里是你第一次\n24 亲眼见到他本人，对吧？\n25 答：对。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 交叉询问\n1 问：现在，我想谈谈 Yield Esta。你能提醒我们\n2 一下 Yield Esta 是什么吗。首先我发音念对了吗。\n3 答：Yield Esta，对的。\n4 问：你能提醒我们一下它是什么吗？\n5 答：它是一个基于算法程序进行期货交易的投资工具。\n6 问：你说的投资工具，是对冲基金的另一种\n7 说法吗？\n8 答：我不会将其描述为对冲基金，但它性质类似。\n9 法官：Kamaraju 先生，请你拼写出\n10 你所描述的那个词。\n11 问：它是 Yield Esta。如果我拼错了请纠正我，\n12 Y-E-L-D-E-S-T-A。对吗，先生？\n13 答：是单词“Yield”后面加上 Esta。\n14 法官：请对着麦克风说话。\n15 答：是单词“yield”后面带上 Esta。\n16 法官：请继续。\n17 问：你刚才提到它专注于算法\n18 交易？\n19 答：是的。\n20 问：我不打算深入探讨其细节。我想问的是，\n21 能否说算法交易在某种程度上\n22 是一种投资策略？\n23 答：是的。\n24 问：而这正是 Yield Esta 所采用的投资策略，\n25 对吧？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 交叉询问\n1 答：是的。\n2 问：当你说它专注于期货交易时，期货\n3 只是一种特定类型的资产类别，对吧？\n4 答：对。\n5 问：所以 Yield Esta 采用了与特定资产类别挂钩的\n6 特定投资策略，对吧？\n7 答：对。\n8 问：那么是谁为 Yield Esta 设定该投资策略的？\n9 答：是我。\n10 问：不是 G/Clubs 那些出资投资的人设定的\n11 策略，对吧？\n12 答：不是。\n13 问：先生，你是注册投资顾问吗？\n14 答：不是，我不需要是。\n15 问：我没问义务。\n16 当 G/Clubs 投资 Yield Esta 时，你向他们提供了\n17 关于该——我借用你的词——“投资工具”的某些信息，\n18 对吧？\n19 答：对。\n20 问：他们自行决定是否要投资，对吧？\n21 答：对。\n22 问：他们向你发送了认购文件，对吧？\n23 答：是的。\n24 问：他们向你汇了钱，对吧？\n25 答：是的。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 交叉询问\n1 问：而且事实上，他们甚至在获准在银行开立\n2 账户之前，就把钱汇给你了，对吧？\n3 答：我不记得了。\n4 问：撤回问题。一旦 G/Club 把钱汇给你，\n5 如何进行投资就是由你来决定的，对吧？\n6 答：是的。\n7 问：你在向客户提供投资建议方面确实有经验，\n8 对吧？\n9 答：是的。\n10 问：你之前在一家基金工作过，对吧？\n11 答：是的。\n12 问：在你进入银行业之前？\n13 答：是的。\n14 问：那家基金叫什么名字？\n15 答：Mother Rock。\n16 问：在 G/Clubs 开立账户之后，我们继续称他为\n17 Alex H，Alex H 建议你应该见见另一位\n18 潜在客户，对吧？\n19 答：是的。\n20 问：那就是加密货币交易所 Himalaya Exchange，\n21 对吧？\n22 答：是的。\n23 问：我想你作证说过那是在 2021 年夏末或初秋，\n24 对吧？\n25 答：是的。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 交叉询问\n1 问：所以当时该交易所尚未——尚未上线运行，\n2 对吧？\n3 答：没有。\n4 问：它当时仍处于开发阶段，对吧？\n5 答：我们在流程很早期的时候并没有推进推出交易所的计划。\n6 问：抱歉。我想我的问题可能\n7 让你困惑了。\n8 我指的是 Himalaya Exchange 到 2021 年夏末\n9 还没有上线运行？\n10 答：我想是没有。\n11 问：有多少——同样，我不是在问具体名字，\n12 拥有加密货币交易所作为客户对你来说很反常吗？\n13 答：不反常。\n14 问：所以你还有其他此类客户，对吧？\n15 答：随着时间的推移有。在所有这些问题中，时间线都很重要。\n16 问：说得合情合理。我并不是想逼你确认什么死理。\n17 在开始与该交易所接触之前，\n18 Mercantile（商业银行）过去曾有其他交易所作为客户，\n19 这就是我的问题？\n20 答：是的。\n21 问：那么，在你最初得知 Himalaya Exchange\n22 的时候，Mercantile 正经历一些现金紧张，\n23 对吧？\n24 答：是的。\n25 问：你一直在尝试融资以维持银行的\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 交叉询问\n1 运营，对吧？\n2 答：对。\n3 问：而且你在告诉潜在投资者，你需要\n4 现金来维持银行运转，对吧？\n5 答：是的。\n6 问：其中一位投资者，因为找不到更好的措辞我们权且说你记录或接洽了的，\n7 是一家名为 Tingo 的公司，对吧？\n8 答：是的。\n9 问：Tingo 是做什么的？\n10 答：当时我的理解是，Tingo 是一家在欧洲和非洲从事\n11 大宗商品交易并有上市意向的公司。\n12 问：根据你当时所掌握的信息，我只问你当时知不知道，\n13 先生。你当时知道 Tingo 是否有任何\n14 加密货币业务吗？\n15 Finkel 律师：反对，这涉及到我们在法官席旁商议的内容。\n16 法官：反对成立。\n17 Kamaraju 律师：法官大人，关于这一点我能否进行一次简短的席旁商议？\n18 法官：可以。\n19 （续下页）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 交叉询问\n1 （在法官席旁）\n2 Kamaraju 律师：我问这个问题的唯一原因\n3 是因为就我所理解的时间线而言，他当时正在与 Tingo\n4 商讨一笔交易。然后他见到了 William Je（余建明），William\n5 Je 提出了一项交易方案，而他选择接受 William Je 的\n6 交易方案而不是 Tingo 的，部分原因包括他的银行和\n7 该交易所在加密货币领域具有协同效应。我问及 Tingo\n8 的唯一目的，就是指出他中途改变了路线，\n9 转而选择了更符合其业务的公司。这就是全部意图。\n10 法官：我认为大家都明白，一家银行可能会招揽\n11 多个客户，或者可能有多个客户寻求在该银行开立账户。\n12 我不明白你为什么非要具体深入谈及 Tingo。\n13 Kamaraju 律师：我并不是要深究 Tingo——唯一的\n14 原因——我的重点不是说银行有许多不同的\n15 追求方。我的重点实际上是他作出了选择。\n16 他拥有选择权，而他挑选了最符合其利益的追求方。\n17 法官：你没必要通过将它与一家与本案无关的\n18 实体进行比较来表达这一观点。你可以直接问他为什么选择它。\n19 Kamaraju 律师：好的。但如果他的回答是“你为什么\n20 选择”，而他说，好吧，Tingo 没有加密货币\n21 能力，而该交易所具备，那我们不还是回到同一个\n22 问题上了吗？\n23 法官：那样的话你就可以深入谈 Tingo。\n24 （续下页）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 交叉询问\n1 （在公开法庭；陪审团在场）\n2 由 Kamaraju 律师提问：\n3 问：那么，Collins 先生，我们刚才谈到你\n4 当时正在与 Tingo 讨论一笔潜在交易，对吧？\n5 答：是的。\n6 问：而在 2021 年 11 月，你前往伦敦与他们\n7 会面？\n8 答：是的。\n9 问：在同一时间，你也会见了 Je 先生，对吧？\n10 Finkel 律师：反对。\n11 法官：反对成立。\n12 问：在 2021 年 11 月，你去了伦敦，对吧？\n13 答：是的。\n14 问：你在那里见到了 Je 先生，对吧？\n15 答：是的。\n16 问：你决定与 Je 先生的公司进行商业\n17 交易，对吧？\n18 答：是的。\n19 问：你为什么选择 Je 先生的公司，而不是银行当时\n20 可能有的任何其他潜在合作方？\n21 答：在一定程度上，据我回忆是他们提高了价格。我认为\n22 他们具有流动性。我不清楚 Tingo 的流动性。Tingo 在\n23 其上市野心方面仍在发展中，这引起了兴趣\n24 但也带来了一些风险。我认为这些是主要因素。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 问：现在，请先回到你与Mr. Je（余建明先生）的会面上。\n2 所以你在主询问中作证说他经营Himalaya Exchange（喜马拉雅交易所），对吗？\n3 答：是的。\n4 问：而且你在这次行程中参观了他在伦敦的办公室？\n5 答：是在伦敦郊区，不过是的。\n6 问：那些办公室占了一栋楼的好几层，对吗？\n7 答：我不记得去过多于一层的地方。\n8 问：你作证说曾有一场仲裁，对吗？\n9 答：我们在时间线的什么位置？\n10 问：嗯，你在主询问中作证说银行对Hamilton（汉密尔顿）提起了仲裁，对吗？\n11 答：对。\n12 问：而且你在那场仲裁中提交了一份声明，对吗？\n13 答：我不记得当时属于那场仲裁一部分的文件了。\n14 问：你记得与那场仲裁有关的宣誓陈述你提交了多少份？\n15 答：我完全不知道。\n16 问：超过一份吗？\n17 答：我不知道。\n18 问：你在仲裁中作证了吗？\n19 答：我认为我作证了。\n20 问：在仲裁作证之前，你提交过任何宣誓陈述吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区法庭速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 答：我不记得了。\n2 问：请向证人出示辩方证据DX60551。\n3 能否请向下滚动浏览一下。能否请翻到第19页。\n4 你认得这个吗？\n5 答：认得。\n6 问：这是你与该仲裁相关所提交的声明吗？\n7 答：我认为是的。\n8 问：能否请翻到第8页，标出——就第46段的最后一句话，先生，请你默读一下。\n9 法官：现在是11:30了，我们休庭片刻。陪审团成员们，请记住，你们不得在彼此之间或与任何其他人讨论本案。\n10 不得允许任何人在你们面前讨论本案。\n11 不得阅读、观看或收听来自任何来源的涉及本次审理标的之任何内容。\n12 先生，你可以退庭了。不要讨论你的证言。\n13 法官助理：陪审团退庭。\n14 法官：请坐。先生，你可以退庭了。\n15 （证人暂时退庭）\n16 （接下页）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO2 Collins, Jr. - 反询问\n1 （陪审团不在场）\n2 法官：在我们中午恢复开庭前有什么事吗？\n3 MR. KAMARAJU（卡马拉朱律师）：辩方没有。\n4 MR. FINKEL（芬克尔律师）：只是为了避免恢复开庭时进行法台旁私语讨论。\n5 我认为辩方律师使用这份声明的意图是正当的，即用来唤起其记忆或进行弹劾质疑。但如果辩方试图引入这份长达20页的声明，我们将对此提出异议。我们可以不在法台旁讨论解决这个问题。看起来我们正朝着合规的方向进行。但为了提高效率，我只是想将其记录在案。\n6 卡马拉朱律师：我不打算申请将该声明作为证据采纳。我打算用它来唤起他的记忆。我想可能还会弹劾质疑他。如果用于弹劾质疑，我认为我打算做的是——如果法官阁下认为合理的话——仅仅请求采纳该声明中体现的特定陈述，并且仅向陪审团公布该特定陈述。然后我们可以在之后提交给陪审团之前出一个涂黑删节版本。这就是我的提议。\n7 法官：这看起来很恰当。\n8 芬克尔律师：谢谢。\n9 卡马拉朱律师：谢谢法官阁下。\n10 （休庭）\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 （陪审团不在场）\n2 法官：请让证人回到证人席，请带陪审员入庭。\n3 （陪审团在场）\n4 法官：请就坐。\n5 记住你仍在宣誓状态下。\n6 证人：是的，法官女士。\n7 法官：你可以继续进行反询问。\n8 卡马拉朱律师：谢谢法官阁下。\n9 由卡马拉朱律师继续发问：\n10 问：我想我们暂停的时候，你正在屏幕上查看一份文件。我只想引导你——为了帮你定位，我很乐意再次给你看第一页，但除此之外，我要引导你关注该段落的最后一句话。\n11 答：我的记忆是这是仲裁中出示的一份文件。\n12 问：好的。这份文件是否有助于唤起你的记忆，关于余先生在伦敦的办公室是否占了一栋办公楼的好几层？\n13 答：是的。我不确定除了我所在的那一层之外我是否去过其他楼层。\n14 问：好的。那不是我的问题；仅仅是有多层属于该业务，对吗？\n15 答：根据这份陈述，是的。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 问：你的印象是这些企业雇佣了很多人，对吗？\n2 答：嗯。\n3 问：超过一百人？\n4 答：我的记忆是大效应有200人左右。\n5 卡马拉朱律师：我们现在可以把那个撤下来了。谢谢。\n6 问：现在我想在我们看那个文件之前，你正在解释你选择与汉密尔顿以及喜马拉雅交易所系列公司进行收购交易的一些原因，对吗？\n7 法官：卡马拉朱律师，请对着麦克风说话。\n8 卡马拉朱律师：抱歉，法官阁下。\n9 问：其中一个原因是你察觉到银行与交易所之间存在协同效应，对吗？\n10 答：是的。\n11 问：而且你把这一点告诉了你的股东，对吗？\n12 答：是的。\n13 问：好的。你能解释一下你认为银行与交易所之间会存在怎样的协同效应吗？\n14 答：嗯，我们一直计划将加密货币交易所、数字资产交易所作为我们产品服务的一部分，但当时尚未推出，因此我们有可能与一家恰好持有我们很大一部分股权的数字资产交易所紧密合作。\n15 问：鉴于你之前对创办交易所的兴趣，你就如何改进喜马拉雅交易所提出了一些想法，对吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 答：是的。我们在这条路上没有走太远。\n2 问：当然。但你提出了一些初步建议，对吗？\n3 答：我不记得那些建议是什么了。\n4 问：好的。那我问你：你之前投资过Bitcoin（比特币），对吗？\n5 答：是的。\n6 问：好的。你向交易所提出的建议之一就是他们也应该上线比特币，对吗？\n7 芬克尔律师：反对。依据《联邦证据规则》第401条、第403条。\n8 法官：你可以回答。\n9 答：我不记得那个具体建议了，但听起来合情合理。\n10 问：好的。你当时知道喜马拉雅交易所刚起步时只上线了两种代币，对吗？\n11 答：是的。\n12 问：好的。那就是H Coin（喜币）和H Dollar（喜美元），对吗？\n13 答：是的。\n14 问：所以对你来说，它应该上线更多代币是合情合理的。\n15 答：这很合理。\n16 问：你曾与David Fallon（大卫·法伦）讨论过其中的一些建议，对吗？\n17 答：我大概会和他讨论这个。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 问：法伦先生是谁？\n2 答：我最恰当的描述是戴夫是该公司的首席交易员。\n3 问：好的。为了明确起见，当你说“该公司”时，你指的是哪家公司？\n4 答：嗯，他和他们许多员工一样，为许多家公司工作。\n5 问：好的。他是汉密尔顿的员工之一吗？\n6 答：是的。\n7 问：好的。他是交易所的员工之一吗？\n8 答：喜马拉雅交易所吗？\n9 问：是的，先生。\n10 答：是的。\n11 问：好的。所以他在余先生的几家公司中都担任了角色，对吗？\n12 答：是的。\n13 问：而且我相信你作证过这一点，汉密尔顿是余先生拥有的对冲基金，对吗？\n14 答：“拥有”这个词比较微妙，但说由余先生“控制”更准确。\n15 问：好的。说得通。他控制了它，对吗？\n16 答：是的。\n17 问：好的。在与交易所达成协议之前，你对交易所进行了尽职调查，对吗？\n18 答：是的。\n19 问：而交易所也对银行进行了尽职调查，对吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 答：我认为是的。\n2 问：作为该相互尽职调查过程的一部分，你前往了伦敦，对吗？\n3 答：是的。\n4 问：你在余先生的办公室呆了几个星期，对吗？\n5 答：是的。\n6 问：在银行方面，你是唯一参与尽职调查的人吗？\n7 答：不是。\n8 问：好的。还有谁参与了？\n9 答：我的合规团队、我的法律团队、我的首席财务官。\n10 问：好的。在交易所方面，在尽职调查中你与谁进行了互动？\n11 答：Priya Patel（普里亚·帕特尔）、Georgette（乔治特）、David（大卫），还有一位年轻先生，有点像分析师，名字我想不起来了。哦，他叫Harrison（哈里森）。\n12 问：好的。所以在该尽职调查过程中，你没有与Mr. Guo（郭先生）交谈，对吗？\n13 答：没有。\n14 问：好的。你没有与Yvette Wang（王雁平）交谈，对吗？\n15 答：没有。\n16 问：在该尽职调查过程中，进行了独立估值，对吗？\n17 答：是的。\n18 问：那是针对该项投资后银行价值的估值，对吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 答：对。\n2 问：好的。我不打算让你深入细节，但你为该估值提供了信息，对吗？我是指关于银行的信息。\n3 答：我们为该估值提供了与银行相关的信息。\n4 问：是的。抱歉。我刚才的问题不够清楚。具体而言，只是为了记录明确，进入该独立估值中的关于银行的信息来自你，而不是来自余先生的公司，对吗？\n5 答：我认为是的。\n6 问：好的。而且你当时认为这项交易能为银行带来巨大的价值，对吗？\n7 答：我是这么认为的。\n8 问：好的。短期内是因为你们的现金流紧缺，对吗？\n9 答：对。\n10 问：但同时在长期内也是如此，对吗？\n11 答：我想回到时间线上，因为你把一堆信息混为一谈，就好像它们全都是同时发生的一样。\n12 余先生进行的第一笔投资发生在我们在对估值进行任何分析之前很久。就我记忆所及，估值发生或开始于二月或三月左右，我不确切记得我们何时收到报告；\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 而较大金额投资的讨论，直到他进行了第一笔投资之后才发生。所以这就是你问题的答案。\n2 问：好的。所以明确一点，你对银行有长期计划，对吗？\n3 答：请定义长期。\n4 问：好的。你有帮助尝试发展壮大银行的计划，对吗？\n5 答：是的。\n6 问：而且这些计划并非在签署协议的次日就会实现，对吗？\n7 答：不会。\n8 问：好的。你认为将银行发展到你所构想的规模需要多长时间？\n9 答：几年。\n10 问：好的。那我说的长期就是这个意思，明白吗？\n11 答：明白。\n12 问：所以在一段——撤回。\n13 所以余先生要投资的部分资金旨在推动长期增长，对吗？\n14 答：是的。\n15 问：而且你当时认为这能极大地增加银行的价值，对吗？\n16 答：是的。\n17 问：事实上，你曾一度对余先生说，你认为该银行的价值可达十亿美元，对吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 芬克尔律师（MR. FINKEL）：反对。\n2 法庭（THE COURT）：反对无效。你可以回答。\n3 答：我不记得进行过那次具体的对话，但确实\n4 存在它可能值那个价的情况。\n5 问：好的。现在我认为在你刚才给出的回答中，你\n6 已经间接提到了这点，但从余建明先生（Mr. Je）的公司拟汇往\n7 你的公司的总金额是被拆分为\n8 几笔的，对吧？\n9 答：三个部分。\n10 问：好的。那么你能向我们解释一下这三个部分分别\n11 是什么吗。\n12 答：第一笔是初始投资，它需要的审批很少，\n13 而且不需要监管机构审批。我认为\n14 该金额大约在 270 万至 300 万美元之间。\n15 第二笔是我们所谓的 9 月 16 日交割款项，\n16 这是额外的 4950 万美元，而且当时设想的是\n17 在大约六个月后，我们会再向该银行\n18 注资 5000 万美元。\n19 法庭：你说的“我们会注资”是什么意思？\n20 证人：抱歉。嗯，在 9 月 16 日之后，\n21 我们银行的高管将为余建明（William Je）以及\n22 Hamilton（汉密尔顿）企业工作，所以我所说的“我们”是指\n23 整体而言，但资金本应属于 Hamilton。\n24 法庭：请继续。\n25 卡马拉朱律师（BY MR. KAMARAJU）：\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区法庭记录员有限责任公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 问：而在你谈到的后两笔款项中——也就是\n2 不是那笔不需要 OCIF（波多黎各金融机构专员办公室）批准的初始投资，\n3 而是其后的两笔款项——我们明确了吗？\n4 答：明确。\n5 问：这两笔款项每一笔都要根据单独的协议进行支付，\n6 对吧？\n7 答：是的。\n8 问：但两套协议都是在 2022 年 9 月 16 日签署的，\n9 对吧？\n10 答：具体签署的是哪些协议？\n11 问：抱歉。我是指与第二笔款项和第三笔款项\n12 相关的协议，对吧？\n13 答：我不——我不记得我们在 9 月 16 日交割时\n14 是否为第三笔款项留存了文件记录。\n15 问：好的。那么当时签署了什么协议？作为 9 月 16 日交割的一部分，\n16 签署了哪些协议？\n17 答：若干份协议。实际上相当多。\n18 问：你记得其中任何一份吗？\n19 答：我无法为你逐一列举。\n20 问：好的。那些协议是在——嗯，\n21 撤回。\n22 根据 2022 年 9 月 16 日签署的协议，\n23 你当时预期 Hamilton 将会给你电汇\n24 资金，对吧？\n25 答：是的。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 问：所以至少在 2022 年 9 月 16 日签署了一份协议，\n2 在你看来，该协议使 Hamilton 有义务向你汇款，\n3 对吧？\n4 答：是的。\n5 问：好的。那你认为 Hamilton 应该汇给你的\n6 金额是多少？\n7 答：4950 万美元。\n8 问：好的。所以有一份在 2022 年 9 月 16 日签署的协议，\n9 你认为该协议使 Hamilton 有义务向你汇出\n10 大约 4900 万美元，对吗？\n11 答：是的。\n12 法庭：那么这笔款项何时到期？\n13 证人：实际上是 16 日当天到期。\n14 问：好的。你在主询问中作证说你实际上在 16 日\n15 没有收到这笔钱，对吧？\n16 答：没错。\n17 问：而且你也没预期能收到，因为那是周五的晚些时候了，\n18 对吧？\n19 答：合理推断电汇流程可能会比预期的\n20 慢一些，但它本可以——本可以\n21 完成结算的。当时并不是那么晚。\n22 问：明白了。但这并未让你感到震惊。\n23 答：这并未让我们感到震惊。\n24 问：但你收到了通知，说明 Hamilton 实际上\n25 已经尝试发出该笔电汇了，对吧？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 译员（THE INTERPRETER）：律师，请放慢语速。\n2 问：抱歉。你当时已经收到通知说 Hamilton\n3 已经尝试发出该笔电汇了，对吧？\n4 答：我们收到了发给 Hamilton 的电汇指示\n5 和收据的副本。\n6 问：好的。你在主询问中作证说这笔钱之所以\n7 从未到达 Mercantile（商业银行），是因为我想你\n8 说是美国法警署（U.S. Marshals）扣押了它，对吧？\n9 答：是的，先生。\n10 问：在 16 日款项未到账后，你\n11 继续就该笔电汇与 Hamilton 沟通，对吧？\n12 答：是的。\n13 问：因为你当时仍认为该交易有机会\n14 达成，对吧？\n15 答：直到下周的大约周四，也就是大约\n16 22 日或 23 日，我们才知道发生了什么。\n17 问：好的。你跟进 Hamilton 是因为你\n18 想看看是否有办法让交易继续进行下去，\n19 对吧？\n20 答：我们希望收到这笔 4950 万美元。\n21 问：是的。根据 Hamilton 打算进行的\n22 投资，对吧？\n23 答：没错。\n24 问：而且你作证说那笔电汇本应来自\n25 Silvergate Bank（银门银行）账户，对吧？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 答：是的。\n2 问：而你认为——嗯，让我问你这个。\n3 撤回。\n4 该交易当时已获得了 OCIF 的批准，\n5 对吗？\n6 答：对。\n7 问：OCIF 的批准是否设定了该交易\n8 必须进行的截止日期？\n9 答：是的。\n10 问：截止日期是什么时候？\n11 答：9 月 16 日。\n12 问：好的。那么你是否认为根据 OCIF 的批准，这笔交易已经告吹——\n13 答：没有。\n14 问：——当——好的。为了明确起见，以便我提问——\n15 答：抱歉。\n16 问：没关系。\n17 当款项在 16 日未能到账时，以你的\n18 观点，这是否导致在 OCIF 批准下的交易作废了？\n19 答：没有。\n20 问：好的。所以即使错过了 OCIF 的截止日期，\n21 交易依然可以达成，对吧？\n22 答：我们最初的看法是，如果这只不过是文书\n23 疏忽，OCIF 会认为周一或\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 周二收到的款项是充分的，但这最终并不是造成\n2 延迟的原因。\n3 问：对。但实质上，如果因为可解释的错误而错过了截止日期\n4 几天，你认为 OCIF 会通融放行，\n5 对吧？\n6 答：我不会用那个措辞，但是——\n7 问：允许其通过。\n8 答：他们会理解的。\n9 问：有道理。但当时解决那个情况\n10 还是具有某种紧迫性的，对吧？\n11 答：是的。\n12 问：这就是为什么你联系了 Silvergate 的首席执行官，对吧？\n13 答：没错。\n14 问：你想推动这件事的进展，对吧？\n15 答：是的。\n16 问：因为解决得越快越好，对吧？\n17 答：是的。\n18 问：因为在某个时刻——谁也说不准——OCIF 的耐心可能会\n19 耗尽，对吧？\n20 答：我认为这是一个公允的评估。\n21 问：后来 Hamilton 通知你法警扣押了\n22 资金，对吧？\n23 答：是的。\n24 问：Silvergate Bank 不肯向你提供该信息，对吧？\n25 答：没错。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 问：然后你就为该交易注资的潜在方案\n2 与余先生进行了另一次讨论，对吧？\n3 答：我不记得那件事了。\n4 问：你不记得通过电话与他讨论过其他\n5 方案？\n6 答：不记得。\n7 问：好的。所以联系 Silvergate 是你\n8 认为他们拥有的最后一个方案；是这样吗？\n9 答：一旦我们得知资金已被美国\n10 政府扣押，我们并不认为——我们希望在面对监管机构时\n11 处于能够完成交易的地位，因为资金被扣押\n12 必然存在正当理由。\n13 问：抱歉，先生。我不明白我们希望完成交易与\n14 资金被扣押必然存在正当理由之间的\n15 联系。你能向我们解释一下吗。\n16 答：直到——直到我们得知这笔钱发生了什么，\n17 我想大约是在 22 日星期四，我们才知道\n18 这笔钱出了什么事。如果这只是一个文书\n19 问题，那么我认为 OCIF 本会接受这笔交易，\n20 我们也就会继续推进。但事实并非如此。它\n21 被美国政府扣押了，并且存在相关\n22 规定——我不是律师，我无法描述那些\n23 规定是什么，但扣押资金必须具有某种\n24 合法性的规定是存在的，而且我认为这必须\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 获得法院的批准。所以从 BSA（《银行保密法》）以及我们与\n2 监管机构的关系的角度来看，指望与他或他组织架构内\n3 涉及的任何其他人——他指的是 William Je（余建明）——\n4 最终完成该交易，是——是说不通的。\n5 问：你把这话告诉余先生了吗？\n6 答：我不确定我是否说过。\n7 问：你此前曾亲自与 OCIF 的专员\n8 交谈过，对吧？\n9 答：是的。\n10 问：你有打电话给专员并说：嘿，这笔钱\n11 被扣押了，我们要取消这笔交易吗？\n12 答：那会非常不像我的作风，所以我不认为\n13 我做过。\n14 问：好的。你有指示你的律师给 OCIF 写信\n15 说：嘿，钱被扣押了，我们取消这笔交易吧？\n16 答：这极有可能是我们沟通的方式，或者我们的律师\n17 代表我们打了电话。\n18 问：好的。但你无论如何都不确切知道，对吧？\n19 答：我不记得了。\n20 问：你在仲裁程序中作过证，\n21 对吗？\n22 答：是的。\n23 问：而且该证词是在宣誓后作出的，对吧？\n24 答：是的。\n25 问：就像你今天宣誓作证一样，对吧？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 答：是的。\n2 问：你记得在你的作证过程中曾被问到：“那么，\n3 你是否记得与 William 进行过一次 WhatsApp 对话，其中他\n4 试图将自己的现金、自己的 HDO（喜币）赎回为现金，以试图\n5 完成这笔交易？”而你回答说：“我记得\n6 关于那件事的对话，是的”？\n7 芬克尔律师：反对。这歪曲了\n8 辩护律师试图弹劾的内容。证人根本不是\n9 那样作证的。\n10 法庭：反对成立。\n11 问：好的。你是否与 William 进行过 WhatsApp 对话，以\n12 尝试讨论他赎回他的 HDO 来为该交易注资？\n13 答：在那段时期我们有很多次 WhatsApp 对话。我进行过一次\n14 关于那件事的对话并不是不合理的。\n15 我不记得具体细节了。\n16 问：好的。你不记得了。\n17 答：细节。\n18 卡马拉朱律师：好的。那我只想调出文件给\n19 证人看——我只希望你默读，好吗？\n20 仅为了记录在案，我向证人、各方\n21 当事人以及法庭展示已标有 Bates 编号\n22 Mercantile DOJ0078835 的文件。\n23 问：好的。先生，你能否默读第 13 至 17 行，\n24 请。\n25 答：你能把放大展示撤下来吗。不好意思。好的。谢谢\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反询问\n1 你。\n2 好的。\n3 问：这是否唤起了你的回忆，关于你是否曾与\n4 余先生进行过 WhatsApp 对话讨论他试图将他的\n5 HDO 赎回为现金来为交易注资？\n6 答：确实唤起了。\n7 卡马拉朱律师：好的。现在我们能否撤下那份文件，\n8 并请向证人和各方当事人展示已标示以供识别为\n9 辨认标目 DX 60556 的文件。\n10 问：先生，请看一下你屏幕上的文件。你看到了\n11 吗？\n12 答：看到了。\n13 问：好的。这些是你从余先生处收到的\n14 WhatsApp 消息，对吗？\n15 答：是的。\n16 问：你是在 2022 年 9 月 23 日凌晨 2:01 收到的，\n17 对吗？\n18 答：是的，时间戳不清楚显示的是美国时间还是\n19 爱尔兰时间，我当时在爱尔兰。\n20 问：好的。但至少文件上反映的是\n21 凌晨 2:01？\n22 答：是的，上面是这么写的。\n23 问：对。而余先生消息的主题\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反向质证\n1 涉及赎回资金，对吗？\n2 答：是的。\n3 KAMARAJU 律师：好的。辩方提请采纳被告第 60556 号证物（DX 60556），\n4 法官阁下。\n5 法庭：有异议吗？\n6 FINKEL 律师：无异议。\n7 法庭：准予采纳。\n8 （被告第 60556 号证物被接收采信为证据）\n9 KAMARAJU 律师：好的。能否请向法庭出示该证物。\n10 并且能否将它与已作为证据采纳的\n11 政府第 MER1205 号证物（GX MER1205）并排展示。\n12 由 KAMARAJU 律师提问：\n13 问：好的。你的屏幕上是否已显示这两份文件？\n14 答：是的。尾号为 1205 的那份只是个抬头。\n15 问：我马上翻阅它，不过——\n16 KAMARAJU 律师：好的。那么请将 1205 翻到\n17 第一页。\n18 问：好的。你是否看到，在这两份文件的最顶端，\n19 写着“按时间顺序排列的信息”？\n20 答：是的。\n21 问：好的。在左边的文件上，你看到括号里的内容了吗？\n22 答：“显示的时间均为 GMT + 00。”\n23 问：好的。然后在右边的文件上，你看到同样的信息了吗？\n24 答：看到了。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区法庭速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反向质证\n1 答：是的。\n2 问：好的。所以先生，你会认同我说的，这两条\n3 信息反映的是同一个时区，对吗？\n4 答：我只认同文件上是这么写的。\n5 问：好的。可以。这两份证物都反映了这一点，\n6 对吧？\n7 答：文件上是这么写的。\n8 问：好的。因此左边的文件，即 DX 60556，显示\n9 那些信息的发送时间早于右边文件上的\n10 信息，对吧？\n11 答：是的。是的。\n12 问：好的。你在直接质证中作证称，Je 先生（余建明）最初并没有\n13 告诉你这笔赎回是给谁的，对吗？\n14 答：是的。\n15 问：现在在左侧，凌晨 2:01 的那条信息，你能否\n16 读给陪审团听。\n17 答：两条都是凌晨 2:01 发送的。\n18 问：我们从最上面那条开始。\n19 答：好的。“你好，正如之前讨论的，我公司希望赎回\n20 一笔资金，以便我们能继续支持\n21 贵行及其他实体的运营。”\n22 问：然后他接着说了什么？\n23 答：“将于早晨向您发送指令。”\n24 问：好的。然后在政府第 1205 号证物中，他向你发送了\n25 指令，对吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反向质证\n1 答：我看不到。噢。\n2 KAMARAJU 律师：你可以只把 1205 放到屏幕上。\n3 可以把另一份撤下来。\n4 答：我们谈到了我与 Mahsud 的会面，谈到了 FV\n5 Bank（FV 银行），他提到他正在进行一笔常规的客户赎回。\n6 请再往下拉一点。\n7 我提到我正在和我的律师通电话。他\n8 提到了给 ACA 的文件。\n9 我需要继续往下读吗？\n10 问：政府第 MER1205 号证物反映的是 Je 先生在 2022 年 9 月 23 日\n11 发给你的唯一一笔赎回请求，对吗？\n12 答：正确。\n13 问：好的。而在我们刚才查看的证物 DX 60556 中，\n14 包含那天清晨更早时候的 WhatsApp 聊天记录，他说\n15 他将向你发送一份赎回指令，\n16 对吗？\n17 答：是的。\n18 问：所以该指令针对的就是政府第 1205 号证物中\n19 提到的这笔赎回，对吗？\n20 答：我认为这两者之间没有关联。\n21 问：好的。那么他在那天上午晚些时候是否就任何其他\n22 赎回向你发送过指令？\n23 答：澄清一下，在此刻之后，William 和我从未讨论过他使用\n24 资金投资我们银行的事。他在凌晨 2:01 发了一条\n25 信息，我没有回复，\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反向质证\n1 然后在稍后，他通过 ACA Capital（ACA 资本）另外发来了一份\n2 赎回请求。\n3 问：好的。所以我的问题是：在 2022 年 9 月 23 日上午，他是否向你发送过\n4 任何其他赎回请求？\n5 FINKEL 律师：重复发问。\n6 法庭：异议成立。\n7 KAMARAJU 律师：那我申请将他最后的\n8 回答作为答非所问予以剔除。\n9 法庭：该回答予以剔除。\n10 问：那我再试着问一遍。你是否——\n11 法庭：我已经支持了重复发问的\n12 异议。\n13 KAMARAJU 律师：抱歉，法官阁下。我以为一旦\n14 被剔除，我就可以回头再问。好的。\n15 问：在 2022 年 9 月 23 日上午，Je 先生向你发送了\n16 多少笔赎回请求？\n17 答：我认为是一笔。\n18 问：如果我们能往下拉到这份证物的第 3 页，你是否看到\n19 有一条 Je 先生在晚上 8:29 发送的信息？\n20 抱歉。回去。是他晚上 8:29 发送的\n21 第二条信息。你看到了吗？\n22 答：“也会就如何完成你的银行交易致电给你。”\n23 问：对的。当时你与 Je 先生之间只进行着\n24 一笔银行交易，对吧？\n25 答：是的。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反向质证\n1 答：是的。\n2 问：那就是对 Mercantile（默坎泰尔银行）的收购，对吧？\n3 答：正确。\n4 问：在这份政府第 MER1205 号证物期间，你并没有对 Je 先生说，\n5 嘿，William，我们无法处理赎回请求，\n6 因为资金已被冻结了，对吧？\n7 答：我不记得说过这样的话。\n8 问：你也没有发表过任何类似陈述，对吧？\n9 答：我不记得了。\n10 问：你从未在任何时候向他传达过你对\n11 扣押会影响此笔赎回请求的担忧，对吗？\n12 答：一旦得知扣押一事，我就处于倾听状态。\n13 问：好的。所以你没有向他传达过，对吧？\n14 答：我不记得发表过这样的陈述。\n15 问：你说你当时处于倾听状态。你处于倾听状态\n16 是因为你预见到要提起\n17 仲裁，对吗？\n18 答：我们当时只是在理清发生了什么。\n19 问：好的。但你确实提起了仲裁，对吗？\n20 答：我们提起了。\n21 问：并且你是在得知司法部（Department of Justice）扣押了\n22 这笔资金之后提起该仲裁的，对吧？\n23 答：是的。\n24 问：事实上，在得知该事实之后，你很快\n25 就提起了该仲裁，对吧？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反向质证\n1 答：是的。\n2 问：就在几天之内。对吧？\n3 答：我不知道具体天数，但确实很快。\n4 问：2022 年 9 月 30 日呢，那是你启动\n5 仲裁的时间吗？\n6 答：听起来差不多。\n7 问：司法部已经扣押了那笔资金，对吧？\n8 答：那笔电汇款。\n9 问：扣押了那笔电汇款。你当时起诉索要的就是那些资金，\n10 对吧？\n11 答：正确。\n12 问：那就是你主张的损害赔偿，对吧？\n13 答：正确。\n14 问：如果司法部已经扣押了那笔资金，Hamilton（汉密尔顿公司）\n15 打算如何向你支付该笔款项？\n16 FINKEL 律师：反对。\n17 法庭：异议成立。\n18 问：好的。对于 Hamilton 打算如何做，\n19 你的理解是什么？\n20 FINKEL 律师：反对。\n21 法庭：异议成立。\n22 问：好的。既然知道司法部已经扣押了该电汇款项，\n23 你为什么还要提起仲裁索要那笔资金？\n24 FINKEL 律师：反对。\n25 法庭：异议成立。他并没有作证说他是在\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反向质证\n1 索要那笔电汇款项。\n2 KAMARAJU 律师：他作证了，法官阁下。\n3 法庭：没有。\n4 问：好的。那我换这种方式问：你为什么基于 Hamilton\n5 未向你发送电汇款而提起\n6 仲裁主张损害赔偿？\n7 答：我们为什么那么做？\n8 问：嗯。\n9 答：因为我对我的股东负有\n10 保护银行资产的责任。\n11 问：你是否相信 Hamilton 有其他资金可以\n12 用来向你支付？\n13 FINKEL 律师：反对。\n14 法庭：你可以回答。\n15 答：鉴于我们有保护我们合法权益的义务这一事实，\n16 我认为那在分析中并不重要。\n17 问：所以你在仲裁上花钱了，对吗？\n18 答：我认为那是保密且受特权保护的。\n19 问：你支付了律师费，对吧，先生？\n20 答：是的，所以我认为那是受特权保护的。\n21 问：法官就在那儿。我不是向你索问你进行过的\n22 任何沟通。我只是在说你付过\n23 律师费。\n24 法庭：你和你律师谈论的内容\n25 是受特权保护的，但是付款这一事实\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反向质证\n1 不受特权保护。\n2 证人：我没有付款。\n3 问：抱歉。我只是想确认一下。你没有付？\n4 答：我们没有付。我们采取了风险代理安排。可能由我们支付了\n5 一些小额的垫付杂费。\n6 问：好的。在提起仲裁之前，你能够\n7 查看到 Hamilton 在 Mercantile 开立的\n8 银行账户，对吧？\n9 答：是的。\n10 问：好的。那些账户里有钱，对吧？\n11 答：是的。\n12 问：数百万美元，对吧？\n13 答：是的。\n14 问：并且那里也有 Himalaya Exchange（喜马拉雅交易所）的账户，对吧？\n15 答：是的。\n16 问：那些账户里也有数百万美元？\n17 答：是的。\n18 问：好的。你是否曾要求 Je 先生使用在\n19 Mercantile Bank（默坎泰尔银行）里的那些资金中的任何一笔来为该交易注资？\n20 答：在我们得知政府扣押的那一刻，我们已经清楚，\n21 监管机构不会\n22 支持完成交易，我也不认为我们能认为\n23 它能通过《银行保密法》（BSA）的标准。\n24 问：在你得知扣押之前呢？\n25 答：什么——关于“在你得知之前”的问题是什么？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反向质证\n1 问：在你得知扣押之前，你是否去找过 Je 先生\n2 并说，你为什么不直接使用已经在\n3 银行里的钱？\n4 答：没有。\n5 问：截至 2022 年 9 月 16 日，可以公平地说\n6 Mercantile 拥有超过 3 亿美元的存款，对吧？\n7 答：我们有很多存款。我不记得具体数字了。\n8 问：好的。数亿美元？\n9 答：是的。\n10 问：好的。而那些钱的大部分要么来自 Himalaya\n11 Exchange，要么来自 Hamilton，对吧？\n12 答：我认为是的。\n13 问：超过百分之 80，对吧？\n14 答：我——金额非常可观。\n15 问：好的。也是数亿美元，对吧？\n16 答：是的。\n17 问：而在那数亿美元中，有相当大的一部分\n18 是用于 Himalaya Exchange 客户赎回的，\n19 对吧？\n20 FINKEL 律师：反对，缺乏根据。\n21 法庭：你可以回答。\n22 答：他们与我们的合规部门沟通了\n23 资金的性质。我不认为他们向我们沟通过\n24 它们未来的用途是什么。\n25 问：好的。当我们查看来自 Je 先生的\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 反向质证\n1 赎回请求时——\n2 答：是的。\n3 问：——那是为了从 Mercantile 赎回资金——\n4 答：不是。\n5 问：好吧，Mercantile 被要求发送一笔电汇，对吗？\n6 答：是的，但该赎回发生在 ACA Capital 与\n7 Hamilton Exchange［原文如此］之间。\n8 问：明白。但从 Mercantile 的角度来看，该赎回的\n9 最终产物就是电汇汇出款项，对吧？\n10 答：我们收到了汇款指令，该指令与\n11 ACA Capital 和 Hamilton\n12 Exchange——抱歉——Himalaya Exchange 之间的赎回相关。\n13 问：好的。而你没有执行该赎回请求，对吧？\n14 答：我们没有执行。\n15 问：但如果你执行了它——\n16 答：嗯，我反对将其称为赎回。从我们的\n17 角度来看，它不是赎回请求，它只是一笔电汇\n18 请求。我没有执行该电汇请求。\n19 问：好的。那我们就用这个词。\n20 答：好的。\n21 问：电汇请求。那么我们确保彼此清楚。在你的\n22 认知中，交易所内部发生了一起赎回事件，\n23 对吧？\n24 答：嗯。是的。\n25 问：好的。然后作为该请求的产物，你们\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 盘问\n1 银行本会从该银行的一个特定账户电汇资金，对吗？\n2 答：对。\n3 问：而且该银行有一个专门用于该目的的指定账户，对吗？\n4 答：对。\n5 问：而且该银行并未——撤回问题。\n6 该账户不仅限于与 Je 先生或其公司相关的赎回请求，对吗？\n7 答：我不知道你说的“限于”是什么意思。该账户是以 Himalaya Exchange（喜马拉雅交易所）的名义开设的，被赎回的资金归喜马拉雅交易所所有。他们对这些资金拥有排他性支配权，所以我不知道你说的“指定”或——这其实很简单。\n8 问：我的意思只是，如果除——如果除了 Je 先生之外的其他喜马拉雅交易所客户想要进行赎回并接收电汇，款项也会出自同一个账户。\n9 FINKEL 先生：要求证人进行推测。\n10 法庭：异议成立。\n11 问：好的。在 Je 先生提出该请求之前，Mercantile Bank（商业银行）是否曾根据喜马拉雅交易所的赎回请求电汇出任何款项？\n12 答：我不记得了。\n13 问：好的。那是你接触过的第一笔吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区法庭速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 盘问\n1 接续？\n2 答：我个人吗？是的。\n3 问：好的。你刚才作证说 FV Bank 是 Puerto Rico（波多黎各）的另一家银行，对吗？\n4 答：是的。\n5 问：而且你得知 Department of Justice（DOJ，司法部）也扣押了存放于 FV Bank 的交易所资金，对吗？\n6 答：根据传闻，我们是这么理解的。\n7 问：抱歉，那是基于传闻？\n8 答：是的。\n9 问：好的。那么，Je 先生也告诉过你这点，对吗？\n10 答：后来告诉的，是的。\n11 问：嗯，截至 2022年9月23日，你们双方都知道这一事实了，对吗？\n12 答：我不记得他告诉我们的确切日期，但他们确实沟通了此事。\n13 KAMARAJU 先生：好的。能否调出检方证据 GX MER1205。\n14 翻译员：法官阁下，能否请双方都放慢语速。谢谢。\n15 法庭：好的。请放慢语速。\n16 KAMARAJU 先生：我会放慢语速，法官阁下。非常抱歉。\n17 检方提问（由 KAMARAJU 先生进行）：\n18 问：好的。你能读一下往下数的第三条信息吗。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 盘问\n1 答：“他只知道 FV Bank 被冻结了。他不知道资金情况，也不知道交易问题。”\n2 问：好的。那是 Je 先生在对你说话，对吗？\n3 答：是的，在 9月23日。\n4 问：好的。你明白他说的“他只知道 FV Bank 被冻结了”是什么意思，对吧？\n5 答：明白。\n6 问：指的就是扣押，司法部在 FV Bank 的扣押，对吧？\n7 答：嗯，上面写的是冻结，所以可能是一次冻结。当时不清楚。\n8 法庭：“他”指的是谁？\n9 证人：Mahsud，他是首席财务官（CFO）。如果往上看前面，我说我在 11 点与 Mahsud 通话，我问他是否知道发生了什么，他说：“他只知道 FV Bank 被冻结了。”\n10 问：在这条信息发出之时，司法部尚未扣押商业银行的任何资金，对吧？\n11 答：是的，尚未扣押。\n12 问：那是很久之后才发生的事，对吧？\n13 答：对。\n14 问：但基于 FV Bank 的扣押事件，你担心司法部会来扣押商业银行的资金，对吧？\n15 答：抱歉，你能把问题再问一遍吗。\n16 问：当然可以。\n17 KAMARAJU 先生：不好意思，能否请速记员读回刚才的问题。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 盘问\n1 读回。\n2 法庭：请读。\n3 （速记记录已读回）\n4 答：我们当时就是不知情。如果你说我有担忧，我们当时对很多事情都有担忧。\n5 问：那是其中之一。\n6 答：是的。\n7 问：因此你找交易所洽谈了提取合规费的事，对吧？\n8 答：我们没有找他们洽谈。我们是通知了他们。\n9 问：好的。你们通知他们——\n10 答：是的。\n11 问：——我们要收取一笔合规费？\n12 答：法律与合规费用。\n13 问：好的。该法律与合规费用将是存放于贵行的喜马拉雅账户及 Hamilton（汉密尔顿）账户中资金的 10%，对吧？\n14 答：听起来差不多。\n15 问：好的。交易所提出了反对，对吧？\n16 答：是的。\n17 问：你们无论如何还是把钱拿走了，对吧？\n18 答：是的。\n19 问：大约是 2800万美元 左右，对吗？\n20 答：听起来差不多。\n21 问：而且你们是从客户银行账户中把那笔钱提出来的，对吧？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 盘问\n1 账户，对吧？\n2 答：不是。\n3 问：你们把它存入了专有的受限账户，对吧？\n4 答：我没有从客户银行账户中提钱。\n5 问：好的。那么我们一直在谈论的那 2800万美元，一直留在了同一个汉密尔顿账户里？\n6 答：噢，抱歉。我误解了你的意思。\n7 问：好的。抱歉。这问题可能有点容易让人混淆。请继续。\n8 答：我们把钱从与喜马拉雅和汉密尔顿相关的账户中转出，并单独放置。\n9 问：好的。转入其专有的账户，对吧？\n10 答：我不记得具体的结构，但听起来没错。\n11 问：但该账户不是以汉密尔顿或喜马拉雅交易所的名义开设的，对吧？\n12 答：对。对。\n13 问：因此——撤回问题。\n14 你们之所以这么做，是因为你们担心司法部会扣押商业银行的汉密尔顿及交易所账户，从而导致你们无法收取那 2800万美元，对吗？\n15 答：我有来自我方内部及外部法律顾问的法律意见书，指出——\n16 问：不，不。我只是想——\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 盘问\n1 答：让我回答这个问题。\n2 问：不，不。我只是想确保你没有透露任何实际的——\n3 答：所以我才提醒这点。其中很多事情都是由他们处理的，因此我很难同意你的措辞定性，但那并非不合理。\n4 问：好的。正如我所说，我并不是在询问你与法律顾问的沟通内容，只是问你脑子里怎么想的。那对你来说说得通，对吧？\n5 答：那是一种合理的做法。\n6 问：而那正是你们采取的做法。\n7 答：我认为那是我们——我们采取的做法。\n8 问：后来司法部来要求退还那笔钱，对吧？\n9 答：是的。\n10 问：你们把其中一部分钱退还给了他们，对吧？\n11 答：是的。\n12 问：但并非全部，对吧，先生？\n13 答：是的，不是全部。\n14 问：商业银行保留了大约 500万美元，对吧？\n15 答：我不记得确切的数字，但大致如此。\n16 问：好的。我并不要求你给出精确的美元数额，但就在那个范围，对吧？\n17 答：是的。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 盘问\n1 问：而且商业银行把那笔钱花掉了，对吧？\n2 答：我们将其作为定金交给了律师，以——\n3 问：抱歉。我没听清。\n4 答：我们将其存放到了律师处，因为当时风声四起，我们觉得需要有人代表我们应诉。\n5 问：好的。所以你们用它来聘请律师了，对吧？\n6 答：是的。\n7 问：你们用它来支付银行的律师费，对吧？\n8 答：是的。\n9 问：而那笔钱是来自喜马拉雅交易所客户的，对吧？\n10 答：不是。\n11 问：这么说，你的理解并不是该资金的最终来源是喜马拉雅交易所客户，先生；这是你的证词吗？\n12 FINKEL 先生：该问题已询问并作答。\n13 法庭：异议成立。\n14 问：你最初收取法律与合规费用，是因为你认为自己对政府负有某些义务，对吧？\n15 答：而且我们需要自卫，因为我们不知道发生了什么。\n16 问：对。无论是你们的自卫义务还是对政府的义务，都要求你们回应信息索取请求，对吧？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 盘问\n1 答：是的。\n2 问：而且你希望能够付得起律师费来处理这些事，对吧？\n3 答：是的。\n4 问：但你不想花自己的钱来办这件事，对吧？\n5 答：我没听懂你的意思。\n6 问：好吧，你不想花银行自有的钱，对吧？\n7 答：我们认为按合同我们不需要这么做。我们可以使用从该账户扣取的款项，因为合同就是这么写的。\n8 问：好的。你提到的那份合同规定你们可以为了合规与法律费用提取资金，对吧？\n9 答：是的。\n10 问：但那并非你们使用该资金的全部用途，是吗，先生？\n11 答：我不确定。\n12 问：难道你们没有使用其中一部分资金购买了 F1（一级方程式赛车）赞助吗？\n13 答：没有。\n14 问：你不记得在仲裁期间对此作过证了吗？\n15 答：我认为我们没有将法律与合规资金用于购买 F1 赞助。我们确实购买了 F1 Academy（F1车手学院）的赞助，那比 F1 赞助便宜得多。那是针对 F1 女车手的首个女子联赛。\n16 问：好的。银行是否有自有资金可用于支付该车手学院赞助？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 盘问\n1 答：有。\n2 问：所以银行有钱用于车手学院赞助，但没有钱支付自己的法律账单，对吧？\n3 FINKEL 先生：反对。\n4 法庭：异议驳回。你可以回答。\n5 答：我们只是根据我们的合同权利行事。\n6 问：你们的合同权利允许你们对诈骗收益行使控制权吗？\n7 答：这个问题确实需要由律师来回答。\n8 问：我只是在问你的理解，先生。\n9 答：我对此没有概念。\n10 问：所以你从未想过这点。\n11 答：我认为我们已让法律顾问对此进行了审查，他们给出了答复。\n12 问：好的。所以即便你们把钱从那些账户中转出，然后将其用于公司开支，司法部也从未暗示过他们将对你或商业银行的任何人提出刑事指控，对吧？\n13 答：他们从未说过不会对我提出刑事指控。\n14 问：我问的是另一个问题，先生。\n15 答：另一个问题是什么？\n16 问：他们曾说过他们打算指控吗？\n17 答：没有。\n18 问：在座的这些各位从未对你这么说过，对吧？\n19 答：没有。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - 复问\n1 问：而且你今天出庭，并没有就此与他们达成任何协议，对吧？\n2 答：请更具体一点。我不知道你的意思。\n3 问：你听说过不起诉协议吗？\n4 答：没怎么听说过。这是我第一次参加刑事审判。\n5 问：好的。所以可以肯定你说你没有与他们达成该协议，对吧？\n6 答：我没有不起诉协议。\n7 KAMARAJU 先生：法官阁下，暂时没有其他问题了。\n8 法庭：复问？\n9 复问盘问\n10 由 FINKEL 先生进行：\n11 问：Collins 先生，你知道 Miles Guo（郭文贵）向喜马拉雅交易所的客户作出了关于是否——嗯，你知道 Miles Guo 向喜马拉雅交易所的客户作出了哪些陈述吗？\n12 答：除了我见过的某些营销材料之外（我都不确定是否该将其定性为陈述），我确实不知情。\n13 问：你会说普通话吗？\n14 答：不会。\n15 问：你知道什么是 H-Coin（喜币）锁仓吗？\n16 答：不知道。\n17 问：你知道什么是 AIAI 吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Redirect\n1 答：没有。\n2 问：那 A10 呢；你知道那是什么吗？\n3 答：A10。我觉得在我看过的某些材料里出现过，\n4 但我确实不知道它是什么。\n5 芬克尔先生（MR. FINKEL）：请帮我们调出 MER8。\n6 问：在交叉询问中有人问了你一些关于威廉·余（William Je）试图\n7 从商业银行（Mercantile Bank）转出的赎回款或电汇的问题；\n8 是这样吗，先生？\n9 答：是的。\n10 问：现在能否请你告诉我们，威廉·余（William Je）当时想把\n11 那笔赎回款、那笔电汇汇到哪里？\n12 答：汇到一家名为第一阿布扎比银行（First Abu Dhabi Bank）的银行，位于阿联酋（UAE）。\n13 问：他是否建议过汇往银门银行（Silvergate Bank）？\n14 答：没有。\n15 问：他是否建议过汇往商业银行（Mercantile Bank）？\n16 答：没有。\n17 问：在交叉询问中有人问你，你是否认为你在凌晨两点收到的信息\n18 与涉及另一笔交易的其他信息之间存在差异。\n19 你认为两者之间\n20 存在差异吗？\n21 答：差异非常大。\n22 问：你能解释一下原因吗？\n23 答：正如我提到的，我没有回复之前的信息。我们\n24 从未讨论过他们如何能够继续与本行进行该笔交易，\n25 因为我们表明了——我们很清楚监管机构不会批准该交易，\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Redirect\n1 我也不愿意与一个似乎是被严重刑事起诉对象的合伙人继续合作。\n2 问：在交叉询问中，有人问了你一些关于商业银行尽职调查的问题\n3 ——是这样吗？\n4 答：是的。\n5 问：而且我相信你说过，尽职调查过程的一部分\n6 是依赖客户的陈述保证？\n7 答：是的。\n8 问：你这是什么意思？\n9 答：我们——我们要求所有客户作出某些陈述保证，其中\n10 有些——有些很简单，比如谁是企业的最终受益所有人（UBO），\n11 我们部分依赖他们的声明来了解实际情况。\n12 问：因此，喜马拉雅交易所（Himalaya Exchange）通过尽职调查依赖于\n13 喜马拉雅交易所员工所作的声明；\n14 这样说准确吗？\n15 答：非常准确。\n16 问：而 G/CLUBS 通过尽职调查依赖于\n17 G/CLUBS 员工所作的声明；这样说准确吗？\n18 答：非常准确。\n19 问：G Fashion 也是如此，对吗？\n20 答：是的。\n21 问：并且有人问了你一些关于你可能见过什么证据的问题，\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Collins - Redirect\n1 涉及喜马拉雅交易所及其最终受益所有人（UBO）。\n2 你还记得那些问题吗？\n3 答：依稀记得。\n4 问：你参加过本案庭审吗？\n5 答：没有。\n6 问：你知道本案庭审的其他证人是谁吗？\n7 答：不知道。\n8 问：你知道已经作出的证言或已经提交的物证有哪些吗？\n9 答：不知道。\n10 问：商业银行尽职调查流程的一部分，是否包括获取\n11 迈尔斯·郭（Miles Guo，即郭文贵）、伊薇特·王（Yvette Wang，即王雁平）以及威廉·余（William Je）之间\n12 关于资金使用的会议录音？\n13 卡马拉朱先生（MR. KAMARAJU）：反对提问形式。\n14 答：没有。\n15 法庭（THE COURT）：反对无效。你可以回答。\n16 答：没有。\n17 问：你是否听过威廉·余、迈尔斯·郭和伊薇特·王\n18 讨论使用 G/CLUBS 资金的录音？\n19 答：没有。\n20 卡马拉朱先生：同样反对。\n21 法庭：反对无效。\n22 问：可以合理地说，那些录音并不属于你在商业银行尽职调查流程的一部分，对吗？\n23 答：我不确定我们当时是否知道这些录音的存在。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 问：你知道海赛姆·哈立德（Haitham Khaled）是谁吗？\n2 答：不知道。\n3 问：“志同道合的人”（like-minded individuals）这个词，是你的说法还是安娜·伊斯基耶多（Ana Izquierdo）的说法？\n4 答：坦白说，我对究竟是谁说出这个词并没有很深的印象。\n5 芬克尔先生：请稍等片刻。\n6 问：你买过喜币（HCN）吗？\n7 答：没有。\n8 问：你买过喜美元（HDO）吗？\n9 答：没有。\n10 芬克尔先生：没有其他问题了。\n11 法庭：再交叉询问？\n12 卡马拉朱先生：没有了，谢谢法官阁下。\n13 法庭：你可以退庭了。\n14 （证人退庭）\n15 法庭：控方可以传唤下一位证人。\n16 默里女士（MS. MURRAY）：谢谢法官阁下。政府方传唤\n17 克里斯汀·弗罗西尼（Christine Frosini）。\n18 法庭书记员（THE LAW CLERK）：请举起你的右手。\n19 （证人宣誓）\n20 法庭书记员：请坐。\n21 法庭：请陈述你的姓名并拼读出来。\n22 证人：克里斯汀·弗罗西尼。C-H-R-I-S-T-I-N-E，\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 Frosini，F-R-O-S-I-N-I。\n2 法庭：你可以发问了。\n3 克里斯汀·弗罗西尼（CHRISTINE FROSINI），\n4 由政府方传唤作为证人，\n5 经正式宣誓后，作证如下：\n6 直接询问\n7 由默里女士主问：\n8 问：下午好，弗罗西尼女士。\n9 答：下午好。\n10 问：你是从事什么工作的？\n11 答：我是副经纪人（broker associate）。\n12 问：能否请你对着麦克风说话。请把麦克风拉向你那边。\n13 答：我是卓越地产苏富比（Prominent Properties Sotheby's）的副经纪人。\n14 问：卓越地产苏富比是做什么的？\n15 答：房地产公司。\n16 问：你从事房地产经纪工作多久了？\n17 答：22 年了。\n18 问：你买卖哪种类型的房产？\n19 答：主要是住宅。\n20 问：你有哪些类型的客户？\n21 答：各类型的都有。我有首次购房者、多次购房者，各个层级的都有。\n22 问：你在哪个地理区域工作？\n23 答：卑尔根县（Bergen County）。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 问：那是在哪个州？\n2 答：新泽西州（New Jersey）。\n3 问：你是否参与了位于新泽西州莫瓦（Mahwah）拉马波谷路（Ramapo Valley Drive）675 号房产的购买？\n4 答：是的。\n5 问：你所知该房产的名称是什么？\n6 答：克罗克庄园（Crocker Mansion）。\n7 默里女士：洛夫特斯女士（Ms. Loftus），请向证人展示政府方第 134 号物证。\n8 问：弗罗西尼女士，你认得政府方第 134 号物证吗？\n9 答：认得。\n10 问：这是什么？\n11 答：新泽西州莫瓦的克罗克庄园。\n12 默里女士：法官阁下，政府方提交政府方第 134 号物证。\n13 什罗夫女士（MS. SHROFF）：法官阁下，我可以问一个问题吗？\n14 法庭：可以。\n15 什罗夫女士：谢谢。\n16 预先审查询问（VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION）\n17 由什罗夫女士主问：\n18 问：照片不是你拍的，对吧，弗罗西尼女士？\n19 证人：不是。\n20 什罗夫女士：非常感谢。没有异议，法官阁下。\n21 法庭：准予采纳。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 （政府方第 134 号物证被采纳为证据）\n2 默里女士：请向陪审团出示该物证。\n3 由默里女士主问：\n4 问：弗罗西尼女士，能否请你向陪审团描述一下，\n5 在这张照片的正前方我们看到的是克罗克庄园的哪一部分？\n6 答：这是庄园的正前方。\n7 问：那么根据这张照片，能否请你描述一下如果有人要前往该庄园，\n8 会从何处接近。\n9 答：这是庄园的正前方，这里有一条环形车道。\n10 默里女士：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以撤下那张了。\n11 现在能否请仅向证人展示\n12 政府方第 145 号和第 146 号物证。\n13 问：弗罗西尼女士，从左边的 145 号开始，\n14 你认得政府方第 145 号物证中所描绘的内容吗？\n15 答：认得，那是——那是从拉马波谷路（Ramapo Valley Road）进入庄园的入口通道。\n16 问：再看右边的政府方第 146 号物证，\n17 你认得该物证中所描绘的内容吗？\n18 答：你看，那里的房子有点小，但看起来像是那处房产。\n19 问：哪处房产？\n20 答：克罗克庄园的房产。\n21 默里女士：法官阁下，政府方提交\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 政府方第 145 号和第 146 号物证。\n2 什罗夫女士：法官阁下，我可以问一句吗？\n3 法庭：可以。\n4 预先审查询问\n5 由什罗夫女士主问：\n6 问：弗罗西尼女士，这些照片也不是你拍的，\n7 对吗？\n8 答：对。\n9 什罗夫女士：我没有异议。\n10 法庭：准予采纳。\n11 （政府方第 145 号和第 146 号物证被采纳为证据）\n12 默里女士：洛夫特斯女士，请向陪审团出示。\n13 洛夫特斯女士，现在陪审团能看到了，能否请把左边政府方第 145 号物证上\n14 显示的标牌放大。\n15 问：弗罗西尼女士，能否请你读一下那块标牌上的内容。\n16 答：克罗克庄园，拉马波谷路 675 号。\n17 默里女士：谢谢，洛夫特斯女士。我们可以撤下了。\n18 问：弗罗西尼女士，你在购买克罗克庄园一事中\n19 扮演了什么角色（如有）？\n20 答：我代表买方。\n21 问：再次提醒，能否请你把麦克风直接拉到\n22 你的正前方。\n23 答：抱歉。\n24 问：这里的音响效果不太好。谢谢。\n25 你代表的买方是谁？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 答：买方是金牛座基金（Taurus Fund）。\n2 问：你大约是在什么时候开始参与这项房地产交易的？\n3 答：2021 年 11 月 27、28 日左右。\n4 问：你在买方金牛座基金那边的主要联系人是谁？\n5 答：一位名叫艾伦·米切尔（Aaron Mitchell）的律师。\n6 问：在这项房地产交易开始之前，你认识艾伦·米切尔吗？\n7 答：不认识。实际上，这个电话是打到苏富比国际（Sotheby's International）的，\n8 而他们当时的接听处理不太正确。\n9 问：你所说的电话打进来了，能描述一下是什么意思吗？\n10 答：是的——艾伦·米切尔联系了苏富比国际房地产（Sotheby's International Real Estate）的首席执行官菲利普·怀特（Philip White），\n11 菲利普·怀特联系了卓越地产苏富比的共同所有人，\n12 告诉他有一位客户想看两处房产，\n13 然后我被叫去协助买方。\n14 问：后来你是否与艾伦·米切尔就其购房意向进行过讨论？\n15 答：他联系了——是的，他们联系我告诉我\n16 他们有兴趣看的房产。\n17 问：在最初的那次谈话中，你与米切尔讨论了哪些房产（如有）？\n18 答：他们想看的两处房产，也就是克罗克庄园和位于纽约州海德公园（Hyde Park, New York）的另一处房产。\n19 默里女士：洛夫特斯女士，请调出并向陪审团出示政府方第 128 号物证。\n20 问：弗罗西尼女士，你认得政府方第 128 号物证中描绘的人吗？\n21 答：看起来像艾伦·米切尔。\n22 默里女士：谢谢，洛夫特斯女士。我们可以撤下了。\n23 问：弗罗西尼女士，为了带看你提到的那两处房产，\n24 你需要从艾伦·米切尔那里获得什么（如有）？\n25 答：我需要资金证明（proof of funds）。带看那个级别的房产时，卖家要求买方提供资金证明。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - Direct\n1 问：你所说的资金证明是什么意思？\n2 答：资金证明基本上就是证明买方买得起该房产，\n3 它要么——要么是以买方律师出具的信函形式提供，\n4 要么有些人会提供银行账户并将银行账号涂黑。\n5 问：艾伦·米切尔是否向你提供了资金证明？\n6 答：提供了。\n7 默里女士：洛夫特斯女士，请向证人展示标为政府方第 1100 号物证的文件。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini（弗罗西尼）- 直接询问（Direct）\n如果我们能翻几页，拜托了。\n问：弗罗西尼女士，这份 Government Exhibit 1100（政府第 1100 号物证）是什么？\n答：什么——\n问：该物证中包含什么信息？\n答：这里是 Crocker Mansion（克罗克庄园）挂牌信息的副本。\n问：翻阅这份政府物证的其余几页，可以公平地说这是您负责克罗克庄园交易的文件档案吗？\n答：是的，已签署生效的合同。那是双方都签字的已生效合同。\n法庭：弗罗西尼女士，请把麦克风拉近嘴边，以便我们能听清您的声音。\n证人：抱歉。嗯。\n法庭：您可以靠前一点，把椅子往前挪挪。\nMS. MURRAY（默里女士）：法官阁下，政府提交政府第 1100 号物证。\n法庭：有异议吗？\nMS. SHROFF（什罗夫女士）：没有，法官阁下。\n法庭：准予采纳。\n（政府第 1100 号物证被采纳为证据）\n默里女士：Ms. Loftus（洛夫特斯女士），请向法庭出示政府第 1100 号物证第 63 页。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区法院速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - 直接询问\n我们可以把顶部区域放大。\n默里女士继续提问：\n问：弗罗西尼女士，这是什么？\n答：是的。那是资金证明。\n问：这封信上的日期是哪一天？\n答：2021年11月25日。\n问：这封信是谁寄的？\n答：Aaron Mitchell（亚伦·米切尔）。\n问：看左上角，亚伦·米切尔寄出的这封信的信头上关联的名称是什么？\n答：Lawall & Mitchell, LLC（拉沃尔与米切尔有限责任公司）。\n问：这封信的主题行或关于行写的是什么？\n答：Family Trust Real Estate Purchase（家族信托房地产购买）。\n问：现在请您朗读这封信的主体段落，从“This firm（本律所）”开始。\n答：“本律所代表 Mei Guo（郭美）及其家族信托，且已代理多年。本人了解郭女士的资金实力，并可确认她有足够资金，以她确定的金额（最高可达她目前希望看房的物业的全额要价）全款现金购买房地产；此外，该笔资金应由本律所进行第三方托管，以完成郭女士或其指定实体所达成的任何交易。相信上述说明已足够，但如有任何疑问，请随时与我联系。”\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - 直接询问\n问：弗罗西尼女士，当时您知道郭美是谁吗？\n答：不知道。\n问：今天您知道郭美是谁吗？\n答：我见过她。\n问：她是哪位？\n答：女儿。\n问：谁的女儿？\n答：郭先生和郭太太的女儿。\n问：据您的理解，郭美在这次房地产购买中有何参与（如果有的话）？\n答：买房。\n问：郭美在这次购买中是如何参与的（如果有的话）？\n答：您说什么？\n问：女儿郭美在这次购买中是如何参与的（如果有的话）？\n什罗夫女士：已经问过并回答过了，法官阁下。\n证人：我见过她。\n法庭：异议驳回。您可以回答。\n证人：不好意思？\n法庭：请继续。\n答：我在那栋房子，也就是克罗克庄园，见过郭女士一两次。\n问：这封信提到了她目前希望看房的物业。那是指什么物业（如果有的话）？\n答：所以这是用来查看 Hyde Park（海德公园）和克罗克庄园的。\n问：后来您是否向郭氏家族成员带看了这两处\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - 直接询问\n物业？\n答：是的。\n问：您先带看了哪处物业？\n答：海德公园。\n默里女士：洛夫特斯女士，我们现在可以先撤下那份文件。\n问：您能为陪审团描述一下海德公园物业吗？\n答：海德公园是一处独特的物业，位于 Hudson River（哈德逊河）畔，非常现代的风格。\n问：那处物业的大致面积有多大？\n答：您知道吗，我不记得那栋房子的平方英尺数了。\n问：您会将其描述为一处大型住宅吗？\n答：不算吧。我的意思是，对某些人来说可能很大，但您知道，它不像——它不算特别巨大。\n问：有谁（如果有的话）去了海德公园物业的带看现场？\n答：郭先生和郭太太，然后还有司机——我自己开车的并在那里与他们会合，但他们有司机和两名安保人员。\n问：您知道郭先生的名字（First Name）吗？\n答：Miles（迈尔斯）。\n问：他的妻子呢，您知道她的名字吗？\n答：不知道。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - 直接询问\n问：郭美参加了海德公园物业的那次看房吗？\n答：她没能去，亚伦·米切尔说她去不了——\n什罗夫女士：反对传闻证据，法官阁下。\n法庭：不要说别人说了什么。只需回答，她参加了还是没有参加。\n证人：对不起。\n答：没有。\n问：亚伦·米切尔参加了那次看房吗？\n答：没有。\n问：您能描述一下在海德公园物业看房花了多长时间吗？\n答：大概一个小时。\n问：在那次看房期间，您与郭先生交流了吗？\n答：有一点点。\n问：您是如何与他交流的？\n答：我做了自我介绍。我们和其他经纪人一起走遍了房子。您知道，总是有那么一点点沟通——英语方面我不太能听得懂。\n问：您用什么语言与郭先生交流？\n答：我吗？英语。\n问：您知道他是否讲任何其他语言吗？\n答：中文。我不知道是哪种方言。\n问：弗罗西尼女士，您会讲任何一种中文方言吗？\n答：不会。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - 直接询问\n问：您能听懂任何一种中文方言吗？\n答：听不懂。\n问：那么在海德公园看房期间，郭先生对该物业说了什么（如果有的话）？\n什罗夫女士：反对。这是传闻证据。\n法庭：异议驳回。您可以回答。\n答：他们其实就只是穿行于各个房间。\n问：当您说“他们”时，您指的是谁？\n答：郭先生和郭太太。\n问：对克罗克庄园的第二次带看是什么时候？\n答：之后。所以从那处庄园出来后，我们去了 Mahwah（马瓦），去了克罗克庄园。\n问：是同一天吗？\n答：是的。\n问：在我们谈论带看之前，您能为陪审团描述一下克罗克庄园吗？\n答：克罗克庄园是一处庄园，是英格兰一处庄园的复制品，大庄园，占地 12 英亩。\n默里女士：洛夫特斯女士，请向法庭出示政府第 1100 号物证第 1 页。\n问：弗罗西尼女士，这是什么类型的文件？\n答：这叫挂牌单（listing）。\n问：是哪处物业的？\n答：这是克罗克庄园的。\n默里女士：洛夫特斯女士，请帮我们放大\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - 直接询问\n顶部区域。\n问：看这里的照片，弗罗西尼女士，那是克罗克庄园的照片吗？\n答：是的，是的。\n问：在右边，大概第一行文字，“Last LP”，您看到了吗？\n默里女士：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以将其高亮标出。\n答：看到了。\n问：那是指什么？\n答：那是指最新挂牌价（Last Listing Price），意思就是，您知道，那是当时当前的挂牌价格。\n问：然后往下看几行，有 Original LP。\n默里女士：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们可以高亮显示那处的话。\n问：弗罗西尼女士，那是指什么？\n答：原始挂牌价（Original Listing Price）。\n问：那么对于克罗克庄园，实际上，看右上角，这份报告是哪一天生成的？\n答：看顶部，这是在 2021年2月16日 挂牌的。\n问：对于该挂牌信息，最新挂牌价是多少？\n答：最新挂牌价是 3300 万。\n默里女士：洛夫特斯女士，请将那部分缩小，并放大页面下方开始的那一段。\n问：弗罗西尼女士，请朗读克罗克庄园挂牌描述中的这一段。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - 直接询问\n答：“Darlington（达灵顿）作为世界上宏伟而罕见的庄园之一，是一座坐落于纽约市 25 英里范围内的建筑杰作。最初建于 1907 年——”\n什罗夫女士：法官阁下，鉴于需要翻译，能否请她慢一点，谢谢。\n法庭：请说得慢一点。\n答：好的。“最初建于 1907 年，该庄园经过精心修复，提供约 50,000 平方英尺的壮观居住空间，以及由 Ramapo Mountains（拉马波山脉）环抱的超过 12 英亩的绝美庭院。21 间卧室，19 间以上浴室，通体采用珍贵木材、石工与精湛工艺。宏大规模的会客室包括大厅、图书馆、茶室和正式餐厅。餐厅级厨房、电影院、台球室、配有水疗设施的室内泳道泳池、按摩室、品酒室、游戏室、健身房、配有池畔小屋的室外泳池、带有两座喷泉的宏伟花园、网球场、8 车位车库，由世界顶级设计师和工匠操刀的室内设计与陈设。如需详细房产信息，请参阅设施报告（Amenity Report，已附于文件中）上的链接。”\n问：在第一句中提到了达灵顿。那是指什么？\n答：我不是挂牌经纪人。所以——\n问：据您的理解，这一段所指的，是否就是您所知道的克罗克庄园？\n答：是的。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO3 Frosini - 直接询问\n默里女士：洛夫特斯女士，请翻到政府第 1100 号物证第 64 页。\n问：弗罗西尼女士，这是什么文件？\n答：这就是所谓的设施清单（Amenity Sheet），专门突出房屋的住宅特色。\n（接下页）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n默里女士继续提问：\n问：看这份文件的顶部，您能读一下粗体文字写的是什么吗？\n答：欢迎来到达灵顿，马瓦市 Ramapo Valley Road（拉马波山谷路）675 号。\n问：那个地址，拉马波山谷路 675 号，那就是克罗克庄园的地址，对吗？\n答：对。\n问：洛夫特斯女士，请帮我们放大上部三分之一。这些是克罗克庄园的照片吗？\n答：是的。\n问：洛夫特斯女士，请翻到下一页。如果能稍微放大一点就更容易看清了。\n弗罗西尼女士，总体而言，这是什么？\n答：这是卖方在 2008 年至 2018 年期间所做装修翻新的清单。\n问：我就不逐条过一遍了。洛夫特斯女士，请翻到下一页，然后再翻到下一页。\n弗罗西尼女士，总体而言，截至带看之时，已经完成的翻新工程规模如何？\n答：规模极大。\n问：在带看时，克罗克庄园的哪些区域已经翻新了？\n答：整栋住宅。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 问：所以那是第 67 页的 1100 号证据，我们能把它重新调出来吗？如果您\n2 能把注意力集中在最下面一行的文字上。\n3 Frosini（弗罗西尼）女士，您能读一下这里的最后一行吗？\n4 答：在 2008/2018 年之间发生的材料和人工概算成本为 $19 million。\n5 问：谢谢您，Loftus（洛夫特斯）女士。我们现在可以把那个撤下来了。\n6 那么转到您带看 Crocker（克罗克）豪宅的情况，谁\n7 参加了那次看房？\n8 答：Guo（郭）先生和郭夫人、我自己、卖家、司机、\n9 郭的司机以及几名安保人员。\n10 问：郭氏夫妇是乘什么类型的车来参加那次看房的？\n11 答：我不记得了。\n12 问：您是和郭氏夫妇一起乘车去参加那次看房的吗？\n13 答：不是。\n14 问：看房大约花了多长时间？\n15 答：比 Hyde Park（海德公园）那次要长。我估计有超过一个\n16 小时。\n17 问：在那次看房期间，郭先生对克罗克\n18 豪宅说了些什么（如果有的话）？\n19 SHROFF（施罗夫）女士：同样的异议，法官阁下。\n20 法庭：异议驳回。你可以回答。\n21 问：在看房期间，Miles Guo（郭文贵）、郭先生对\n22 克罗克豪宅说了些什么（如果有的话）？\n23 答：基本上是对房屋细节的评价。\n24 问：这些评价有哪些例子？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 答：房屋木工作业的细节以及房屋的\n2 质量。\n3 问：根据您在那次看房期间的观察，您对郭先生打算如何使用\n4 克罗克豪宅有什么印象（如果有的话）？\n5 施罗夫女士：异议。\n6 法庭：请两位上前。\n7 （续见下一页）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 （在法官席前边会）\n2 法庭：你说根据你的观察他打算\n3 如何使用这栋房屋。我不确定除了根据他可能说过的话之外，她是否能陈述\n4 他的意图。\n5 MURRAY（默里）女士：对。所以这是基于她的\n6 观察。这是 701 条意见证据。她做了 22 年的\n7 房地产经纪人。她带人看过房。问题是\n8 她在看房期间是否形成了某种理解，正如\n9 法官阁下所说，无论是从她偶然听到的、她观察到的，\n10 还是她所进行的交谈中得出的；例如，这是否将用作一个\n11 家庭住宅、一处居所。\n12 法庭：我希望你在观察方面\n13 能更具体一些。\n14 默里女士：我可以进一步引出这一点。\n15 施罗夫女士：法官阁下，我们提出相关性\n16 异议。\n17 法庭：这非常相关。施罗夫女士，关于\n18 这栋房屋的用途，这高度相关。\n19 施罗夫女士：我知道您裁定我不支持我，但我\n20 只是想记录一下我的发言。没关系。当然，\n21 法庭的裁定始终是正确的。我确实认为，一名房地产\n22 经纪人对于某人为何购买某处房产的印象或观察\n23 实际上是不相关的。这里唯一相关的\n24 不应是任何人的印象。无论\n25 政府是否能够证明他为什么购买或没有购买 Mahwah（马瓦），\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 这都是他们可以通过其他途径证明的事，而不是通过一名房地产\n2 经纪人认为她所想的印象来证明。\n3 法庭：他陈述了什么、他传达了什么。\n4 施罗夫女士：但他什么都没陈述过。\n5 法庭：目前尚未证实他\n6 什么都没说。他谈到了对木工细节的评价。\n7 施罗夫女士：关于用途。关于——\n8 我今天身体不太舒服，所以请见谅。\n9 豪宅的用途完全不受\n10 木工作业的影响。而且，这同样是她对于他为何\n11 购买该房产的印象，这是不相关的。最重要的是，\n12 他们声称 May Guo（郭美）才是该房产的\n13 买家，因此他们提交的是郭美的信件，作为\n14 该房产的潜在买家。\n15 法庭：她可以就对她作出的陈述、\n16 她可能无意中听到的可能表明该房产\n17 预期用途的陈述发表意见。这就是我的裁定。\n18 （续见下一页）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 （在公开法庭上）\n2 默里女士继续询问：\n3 问：弗罗西尼女士，再次提请您注意克罗克\n4 豪宅的看房过程，关于郭文贵在那次看房期间\n5 对该房产说了什么，您还记得什么（如果有的话）？\n6 答：并没有什么真正的评价，比如我很喜欢这栋房子之类的。非常感谢。我们会商量一下，然后再给您\n7 回复。\n8 问：在看房期间，郭文贵对于该房产的\n9 潜在改建或翻新说了什么（如果有的话）？\n10 施罗夫女士：异议。她已经回答过郭文贵\n11 说了什么。\n12 法庭：你可以回答。\n13 答：您能重复一下吗。不好意思。\n14 问：在看房期间，郭文贵对于该房产的\n15 潜在改建或翻新说了什么（如果有的话）？\n16 答：什么都没说。那是他们第一次看这栋房子。\n17 问：那么，在看完了克罗克豪宅之后，\n18 接下来发生了什么？\n19 答：接下来是——再次说明，您知道，这是 2021 年的事，但我\n20 接到了——我不记得具体时间、确切的日子了，但我接到了\n21 Aaron Mitchell（亚伦·米切尔）的电话，说他们想推进\n22 报价。\n23 问：您所指的“他们”，亚伦·米切尔说他们\n24 想推进报价，您理解他指的\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 是谁？\n2 答：他说是他的客户。\n3 施罗夫女士：就传闻证据提出异议。异议。\n4 法庭：异议驳回。你可以回答。\n5 答：他的客户。\n6 问：而且，弗罗西尼女士，总体而言，您是如何\n7 就涉及克罗克豪宅的交易与亚伦·米切尔\n8 进行沟通的？\n9 答：我们发短信和打电话。\n10 问：洛夫特斯女士，能否向证人展示\n11 标为 Government Exhibit 1101（政府证据 1101）的文件，我们能否翻阅\n12 这份文件。\n13 弗罗西尼女士，政府证据 1101 中\n14 是什么类型的文件？\n15 答：这些是我从亚伦·米切尔那里收到的短信以及我的\n16 回复，所以是我们双方来回发送的短信。\n17 默里女士：法官阁下，政府提交\n18 政府证据 1101。\n19 施罗夫女士：异议。法官阁下。这是传闻证据。\n20 法庭：异议驳回。准予采纳。\n21 （政府证据 1101 获准采纳为证据）\n22 默里女士继续询问：\n23 问：洛夫特斯女士，请向法庭出示这份证据，我们可以\n24 放大全屏顶部的这部分。谢谢。\n25 弗罗西尼女士，这条聊天记录顶部\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 的联系人姓名，您能读一下吗？\n2 答：Aaron（亚伦）。\n3 问：我们在这里看到的第一条信息，那条信息的日期\n4 是什么？\n5 答：2021 年 11 月 27 日。\n6 问：那么，在这些信息中，您发送的信息是\n7 蓝色的还是灰色的？\n8 答：蓝色的。\n9 问：然后灰色的信息是来自亚伦·米切尔的；是这样\n10 吗？\n11 答：是的。\n12 问：洛夫特斯女士，请翻到第三页。\n13 那么看一下这里的日期——\n14 答：2021 年 11 月 28 日。\n15 问：看一下底部蓝色的信息，您能读一下\n16 那条信息写了什么吗，那是您发给亚伦·米切尔的？\n17 答：想继续保持沟通。他们可以以 28 million 包含家具买下庄园。供参考，最初要价是 39\n18 million，6 月份调整价格至 33 million。你晚点可以打给我。\n19 谢谢。\n20 问：那封信中所提及的庄园，那是什么\n21 庄园？\n22 答：克罗克豪宅。\n23 问：请翻到下一页。看中间\n24 亚伦·米切尔发来的灰色信息。那条\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 信息写了什么？\n2 答：写着“没什么离谱的”那条吗？\n3 问：是的。\n4 答：关于该房产没什么离谱的事吧，对吧？暴力历史、\n5 闹鬼传闻等。\n6 问：您对亚伦·米切尔的那条信息是如何回复的？\n7 答：郭先生问过我关于鬼魂的事，据我所知没有暴力事件。吃完晚饭打给我。\n8 问：关于您与郭先生之间有关鬼魂的谈话，您在这里\n9 指的是什么？\n10 答：有时买家会问房屋内是否发生过任何暴力事件\n11 或是否存在古怪之处。\n12 问：特别是对于郭先生而言，您与他进行了怎样的\n13 谈话？\n14 答：关于那个问题吗？\n15 问：是的。\n16 答：我说我会去了解清楚。\n17 问：他向您询问了什么（如果有的话）？\n18 答：不好意思。\n19 问：这里所提及的他曾问过您的内容是什么（如果有的话）？\n20 施罗夫女士：异议，法官阁下。那是传闻证据，\n21 而且关于这段完全相同的谈话此前已经被询问并回答过\n22 两次了。\n23 法庭：异议驳回。你可以回答。\n24 答：他问了，您知道的，房子里有没有鬼魂。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 问：他是什么时候问您的？\n2 答：我们在那处房产现场的时候，在他看那处房产的时候。\n3 问：下一条信息，弗罗西尼女士，它的日期是\n4 什么时候？就在这页的底部。\n5 答：2021 年 11 月 29 日。\n6 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们能否放大弗罗西尼女士\n7 发来的那条信息。\n8 弗罗西尼女士，这条信息中提到了\n9 基金会。您能读一下那个句子吗。开头是\n10 “请转告”？\n11 答：请转告基金会，业主正在汇总一份\n12 详细的信息包供他们审阅。我\n13 明天会转给您。内容非常详细。我\n14 也可以去市政部门要求查看相关档案。\n15 就已知的墓地、火灾等而言，答案是没有。\n16 Chris（克里斯）。\n17 问：那么，弗罗西尼女士，您在这里提到的\n18 基金会是指什么？\n19 答：买家。\n20 问：那位买家的名字是什么？\n21 答：嗯，同样，资金证明上的名称是 May Guo Family Trust（郭美家庭信托），但在我们签署合同时买家的名称\n22 是 Taurus Foundation（金牛座基金会）。\n23 问：洛夫特斯女士，请翻到下一页。\n24 不好意思，实际上是再下一页。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 弗罗西尼女士，关注一下您在这里的信息，本页上的第二条\n2 信息，那是于什么日期和时间发送的？\n3 答：2021 年 12 月 1 日。\n4 问：您能只读一下在“Hi Aaron”之后该信息的\n5 第一句话吗？\n6 答：业主让我落实为书面形式，所以我将拟定一份\n7 买卖合同。请通过电子邮件将购房人的\n8 抬头及其地址发送给我。\n9 我们能否在律师审查结束后立即支付 10%，\n10 律师审查通常为期三天？关于交割日期请告知我。\n11 关于交割日期请告知我业主对于现在 12 月或 1 月都\n12 没意见，以及谁将签署这份文件，是你吗？\n13 问：那么，弗罗西尼女士，您在关于购房人抬头的\n14 表述中是在索要什么？\n15 答：因为在起草合同时，我需要知道合同上买方的\n16 抬头是谁。\n17 问：那您在最后一句话中问“谁将签署这份文件，是你吗？”，\n18 问的是什么？\n19 答：因为我们现在采用电子方式签署合同，所以我需要\n20 知道名字或有限责任公司或其他任何主体是什么，我需要\n21 知道那是谁，以便我最终敲定合同。\n22 问：洛夫特斯女士，如果我们能翻到下一页。\n23 看顶部，在同一日期您再次给亚伦·\n24 米切尔发了短信，他在\n25 下午 5:47 的回复是什么？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 12月1日？\n2 答：需要与英国回购实体的某人通话。明早\n3 给您回复。\n4 问：Frosini（弗罗西尼）女士，您知道 Aaron Mitchell（亚伦·米切尔）打算与谁\n5 通话吗？\n6 答：不知道。\n7 问：在出售过程的这个时间点，您听说过 Taurus Fund SP（金牛座基金 SP）吗？\n8 答：没有。\n9 问：这里继续，我们能否看一下来自 Aaron Mitchell 的\n10 下一条信息。上面写着：“父亲明天（上午10点）是否可能\n11 回到该住宅并与 Vinny（维尼）见面。”您当时理解这位父亲是指谁？\n12 答：郭先生。\n13 问：那您当时理解 Vinny 是指谁？\n14 答：他为卖方管理该物业。\n15 问：来自 Aaron Mitchell 的下一条信息开头是：“母亲\n16 担心的一点是空调声音很大。”您看到了吗？\n17 答：看到了。\n18 问：您当时理解这位母亲是指谁？\n19 答：郭太太。\n20 问：那是 Miles Guo（郭文贵）的妻子，对吗？\n21 答：对。\n22 问：Loftus（洛夫图斯）女士，麻烦翻到下一页。\n23 看本页上来自 Aaron Mitchell 的第二条信息，\n24 本页上的第二条灰色信息。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区法庭速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 答：2021年12月2日。\n2 问：Aaron Mitchell 发短信说：“他们还有五分钟到。”您当时\n3 理解这是指谁？\n4 答：买家。\n5 问：然后在当天下午2:59，您给 Aaron Mitchell\n6 发了什么短信？\n7 答：我发了什么短信？\n8 问：嗯。Loftus 女士，麻烦把蓝色部分高亮显示。\n9 答：“供您参考，他们刚走。”\n10 问：Frosini 女士，您是否记得郭氏一家在2021年12月2日\n11 对 Crocker（克罗克）庄园的造访？\n12 答：记得，我们有一次造访。我只是，您知道，日期方面，毕竟那\n13 是两年前了；但是，是的，我们当时在那里。\n14 问：在那次造访期间发生了什么？\n15 答：他们更详细地查看了房子。\n16 问：您能否向我们详细叙述您对12月2日那次造访\n17 的记忆？\n18 答：就是他们更详细地查看了房子，每个\n19 房间，我并不是一直跟着他们，因为我就是让\n20 买家自己走动，尤其是当他们是第二次来的时候。\n21 他们想私下讨论。\n22 问：那么这次造访有谁出席了？参加那次造访\n23 的买家是谁？\n24 答：您知道吗，我真的记不太清了。\n25 问：您是否记得郭先生，Miles Guo，是否参加了那次\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 造访？\n2 SHROFF 女士：反对，已问且已答。\n3 法庭：你可以回答。\n4 答：参加了，而且女儿那天可能也在场。我\n5 记不清具体是哪几天了；但是，是的，我记不清具体\n6 谁在场。我是说，郭先生在场，而且我认为可能\n7 女儿那天也在。但同样，我不敢保证就是那\n8 一天。\n9 问：专门针对郭先生而言，在当天的造访中，您与郭先生\n10 有过任何交谈吗？\n11 答：可能有随意的交谈。再说一次，有一点语言\n12 障碍，但零星有随意的交谈。\n13 同样，我并没有陪同他们走遍整栋房子。\n14 问：Loftus 女士，麻烦翻到下一页。\n15 看这里顶部您发给 Aaron Mitchell 的短信，\n16 日期是几号？\n17 答：2021年12月3日。\n18 问：您能读一下那条信息吗。\n19 答：“Aaron，如果我让卖方同意26，12月20日\n20 交割，你觉得可行吗？”\n21 问：这里的“26”是指什么？\n22 答：您知道吗，我自己也正在看这个。您知道\n23 吗，我不知道。\n24 问：再往下看一点，页面中间有一条来自 Aaron\n25 Mitchell 的短信。他在索取有关卖方的什么\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 信息？\n2 答：“你有卖方的全名吗，以便我写进信函中。”\n3 问：然后往下几条信息处，他发送了另一条以\n4 “email”开头的短信。您看到了吗？\n5 答：“已将信函电邮给您。如果还需要其他内容请告诉我。”\n6 问：Loftus 女士，麻烦翻到下一页。这\n7 同样是同一天，12月3日。来自 Aaron Mitchell\n8 的以“Hi”开头的那条信息，麻烦您读一下好吗？\n9 答：“Hi，Chris，你有 Crocker 的平面图吗。”\n10 问：您的回复是什么？\n11 答：“我去拿。他们对卖方接受他们的\n12 出价感到满意吗？卖方可能想等我们拿到\n13 签署的合同后再让我发送。我会通知你。”\n14 问：Aaron Mitchell 对那条短信的回复是什么？\n15 答：“他们更专注于按照自己的品味做好准备，\n16 所以如果我能尽快拿到，那就太好了。”\n17 问：Frosini 女士，您当时是否理解 Aaron Mitchell 所指的\n18 “他们”是谁？\n19 答：是的。\n20 问：是谁？\n21 答：同样，是买家。\n22 问：买家是谁？\n23 SHROFF 女士：反对，已问且已答。\n24 法庭：反对无效。你可以回答。\n25 答：买家是郭氏家族。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 问：Loftus 女士，我们可以撤下那个了。麻烦为\n2 证人调出政府方证据 1102。麻烦\n3 翻阅一下。\n4 Frosini 女士，您认得政府方证据 1102\n5 中的文件吗？\n6 答：这些是卖方提供给我的平面图。\n7 问：您此前审阅过这份证据吗？\n8 答：在我收到它的时候审阅过。\n9 问：这些是与 Crocker 庄园交易相关的\n10 各种文件吗？\n11 答：对。\n12 MURRAY 女士：法官阁下，政府方提请出示\n13 政府方证据 1102。\n14 SHROFF 女士：反对，法官阁下。我们可以进行\n15 庭边商议吗？\n16 法庭：可以。\n17 （续见下一页）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 （在法庭边商议处）\n2 SHROFF 女士：法官阁下，该文件是名为 Gladys Chow（周秀芬）的人\n3 与房地产经纪人之间的电子邮件往来。\n4 没有任何代理关系或共谋者理由能够\n5 使这些往来记录具有可采性，且它们属于书面传闻证据。\n6 因此基于这些理由，对于 Chow 女士与\n7 房地产经纪人之间的电子邮件往来，我们提出反对。\n8 法庭：邮件里说了什么？\n9 SHROFF 女士：她问了很多问题，房地产\n10 经纪人作了回复。她询问家具情况。她索取\n11 装修设计师推荐。她询问应当如何翻新以及找谁\n12 翻新该处场所。Chow 女士与房地产经纪人的互动\n13 不存在传闻证据例外。\n14 法庭：Chow 女士是谁？\n15 SHROFF 女士：Chow 女士是一名雇员。\n16 法庭：谁的？\n17 SHROFF 女士：我认为她是雇员——从严格技术意义上说，我不确定\n18 她是谁的雇员。Finkel（芬克尔）先生，我真觉得\n19 你不应该冲我笑或嘲笑我。\n20 FINKEL 先生：我不是在笑你。我是因为\n21 你的回答而发笑。\n22 SHROFF 女士：那是一回事，我的回答。\n23 FINKEL 先生：我向您道歉，Shroff 女士。\n24 SHROFF 女士：Chow 女士与房地产\n25 经纪人的沟通属于传闻证据，基于这些理由我们\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 提出反对。\n2 MURRAY 女士：法官阁下，Chow 女士是 Miles\n3 Guo 的代理人。她与房地产经纪人沟通，正如她\n4 代表郭先生与各类其他人沟通一样，\n5 代郭先生提问，将答复带回给郭先生。\n6 事实上，Gladys Chow 就在辩护律师一年前\n7 向政府方提供的潜在律师/委托人特权名单上。\n8 因为他们表示她是与郭先生存在助理关系的\n9 翻译人员。她与郭先生关系如此密切，以至于可能知悉特权保密沟通。\n10 她频繁进行沟通，不仅与 Frosini 女士，\n11 还与各类其他人，例如包括；Paolo\n12 Sozzi（保罗·索齐），政府方预期的证人之一，内容涉及\n13 额外的翻修事宜。并且她是在传达来自\n14 郭先生的信息并将其反馈给郭先生。她显然是\n15 一名代理人，且存在例外情形。\n16 法庭：这些电子邮件予以采纳。继续。\n17 SHROFF 女士：记录中没有任何证据支持\n18 Murray 女士在庭边商议中陈述的这些事实。对此\n19 从未有过证言。关于 Chow 女士从未有过证言。\n20 关于潜在的未来证人显然从未有过证言，\n21 因为该证人尚未作证。\n22 没有确立 Chow 女士与郭先生之间的代理关系。\n23 而且她列入特权名单的事实，也可能反映了她在\n24 郭先生被捕后在监狱为其翻译的事实。因此基于这些理由，\n25 Gladys Chow 与郭先生之间并没有确立代理关系。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 此外，法官阁下，政府方对此心知肚明，\n2 因为他们曾接触 Chow 女士并试图与她交谈，\n3 而她拒绝了。这些全都不在证据之中，因此，我继续\n4 基于传闻证据提出反对。\n5 MURRAY 女士：法官阁下，我当然打算向\n6 Frosini 女士询问下一个问题：Chow 女士是谁，以及她与\n7 Chow 女士互动的性质是什么。\n8 法庭：电子邮件予以采纳。\n9 （政府方证据 1102 获准采纳为证据）\n10 （续见下一页）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 （在公开法庭；陪审团在场）\n2 法庭：请继续。\n3 由 FINKEL 先生继续询问：\n4 问：Loftus 女士，麻烦展示现已作为政府方证据\n5 1102 入证的内容。我们翻到第63页。麻烦\n6 放大底部的这封电子邮件。\n7 Frosini 女士，这封电子邮件的日期是几号？\n8 答：2021年12月3日。\n9 问：这封电子邮件是谁发的？\n10 答：Aaron Mitchell。\n11 问：麻烦您读一下您从 Aaron Mitchell\n12 收到的这封电子邮件好吗？\n13 答：“这样写能起到表明意向的作用吗？如果他\n14 需要定金等，或者如果他认可这个金额，请告诉我。他的\n15 律师可以与我们负责交割的律师沟通。”\n16 问：Loftus 女士，麻烦翻到下一页，\n17 并放大这里的正文部分。\n18 Frosini 女士，这是什么？\n19 答：这是一份意向书。\n20 问：针对哪处物业？\n21 答：针对位于 Mahwah（马瓦）的 675 Ramapo Valley Road（拉马波谷路675号）Crocker 庄园。\n22 问：这份意向书的日期是几号？\n23 答：2021年12月3日。\n24 问：我来宣读这份信函。“感谢您抽空\n25 向我委托人的代表展示您位于 675\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 Ramapo Valley Road, Mahwah, New Jersey（新泽西州马瓦市拉马波谷路675号）的物业。我的委托人已\n2 授权我正式出价2600万购买该\n3 物业。这将是一笔全现金交易。根据您的要求，\n4 交割将于2021年12月20日或之前进行。”\n5 首先，在这份信函中，您当时理解“我委托人的\n6 代表”是指谁？\n7 答：我不知道他为什么那样写。\n8 问：这是指——\n9 SHROFF 女士：反对。以答非所问为由\n10 申请剔除。\n11 法庭：反对成立。请重读一遍\n12 问题，证人请听清问题并回答该\n13 问题。\n14 答：您说了“感谢您抽空向我委托人的代表\n15 展示”。我不知道他是什么意思，Aaron Rogers（亚伦·罗杰斯）说的\n16 展示给代表是什么意思，而不是说我的委托人\n17 或买家。也许那是他用来表示代表的用词。\n18 SHROFF 女士：法官阁下，我申请剔除\n19 “我不知道他是什么意思”之后的所有内容。\n20 法庭：从“也许”开始的内容我予以剔除。请继续。\n21 问：Frosini 女士，这里提到向某些人展示\n22 物业，您向与 Aaron Mitchell 相关的\n23 哪些人展示了该物业？\n24 SHROFF 女士：反对诱导性发问。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 A. 郭氏家族（The Guo family）。\n2 法庭：异议成立。你把房产展示\n3 给谁看了？\n4 证人：郭氏家族。\n5 问：请翻到政府第 1102 号物证（Government Exhibit 1102）第 19 页。\n6 看顶部的这封电子邮件，这封电子邮件的\n7 日期是哪一天？\n8 答：2021年12月6日。\n9 问：根据主题行，\n10 这是关于哪处房产的？\n11 答：拉马波谷路675号（675 Ramapo Valley Road）。\n12 问：在电子邮件内容顶部以“已发送”开头的地方，\n13 有一些加粗和斜体的文字。你看到了吗？\n14 答：看到了。\n15 问：上面写着什么？\n16 答：代表布鲁斯·E·惠特克（Bruce E. Whitaker）发送。\n17 问：布鲁斯·E·惠特克是谁？\n18 答：卖方的律师。\n19 问：看这里的第一句话，以“附上”开头，\n20 上面写着什么？\n21 答：附上的是一份已完整签署的合同。请注意，\n22 我对第3C款做了一处修改，即将定金\n23 保存在我们的信托账户中。请让买方在此修改处\n24 签署姓名缩写。\n25 问：洛夫特斯女士（Ms. Loftus），请翻到第 21 页。那是\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 所附的合同。\n2 弗罗西尼女士（Ms. Frosini），请关注底部的第七项，\n3 弗罗西尼女士。弗罗西尼女士，在这份已签署的合同上，\n4 谁被列为卖方？\n5 答：克罗克庄园有限责任公司（Crocker Mansion Estate, LLC）。\n6 问：谁是买方？\n7 答：金牛座独立投资组合基金（Taurus Fund SP）。\n8 问：据你理解，金牛座独立投资组合基金是什么？\n9 答：我不知道。我没问过。\n10 问：在你的房地产业务中，实体作为房产买方的情况有多频繁（如果有的话）？\n11 什罗夫女士（MS. SHROFF）：反对。\n12 法庭：反对无效。你可以回答。\n13 答：对于重大房产，人们会用——他们不会\n14 用个人姓名。要么是有限责任公司，要么是信托。\n15 问：你看到金牛座基金的签名了吗——\n16 答：看到了。\n17 问：——在这份合同上。你是如何拿到这份合同的\n18 签署副本的？\n19 答：通过电子方式。\n20 问：你知道金牛座独立投资组合基金的公司架构吗？\n21 答：不知道。\n22 问：看右下角这里，这是你在该合同上的\n23 电子签名吗？\n24 答：是的。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 问：洛夫特斯女士，请翻到该物证的第 18 页，\n2 重点看弗罗西尼女士发出的电子邮件。\n3 弗罗西尼女士，这封电子邮件的日期是哪一天？\n4 答：2021年12月6日。\n5 问：你把这封邮件发给谁了？\n6 答：发给阿隆·米切尔（Aaron Mitchell）。\n7 问：你能读一下这封电子邮件的正文吗？\n8 答：祝贺基金会。随附的是一份已完整签署的\n9 合同。请见下方律师的附注。\n10 问：你为什么说“祝贺基金会”？\n11 答：因为我总是向买方表示祝贺。\n12 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以把这个撤下了。请翻到\n13 政府第 1101 号物证（Government Exhibit 1101）第 12 页。\n14 从最上面的信息开始，阿隆·米切尔发来的这条信息、\n15 这条短信的日期是哪一天？\n16 答：图纸有消息了吗？他们今天已经给我打了三次\n17 电话。迈（My）或梅（May）和母亲非常想看。我\n18 想让他们保持开心。\n19 问：先看一下这条信息的日期，就在\n20 这张截图的顶部，阿隆·米切尔发给你那条短信的\n21 日期是哪一天？\n22 答：2021年12月4日。\n23 问：据你理解，“梅”指的是谁？\n24 答：女儿。\n25 问：谁的女儿？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 答：郭先生和郭夫人的女儿。\n2 问：据你理解，“母亲”指的是谁？\n3 答：郭先生的妻子。\n4 问：在底部这里有一条来自你的信息，是你在本页上的\n5 最后一条短信。内容显示为：刚刚把平面图\n6 电邮发给你了。请确认收到。\n7 你是在哪一天通过电子邮件把平面图发给阿隆·米切尔的？\n8 答：2021年12月4日。\n9 问：洛夫特斯女士，请翻到政府第 1102 号物证\n10 第 1 页，重点看那封电子邮件。\n11 弗罗西尼女士，这封电子邮件是谁发的？\n12 答：周格拉蒂斯（Gladys Chow）。\n13 问：周格拉蒂斯是谁？\n14 答：周格拉蒂斯为该家族工作。我不知道她的确切\n15 头衔。\n16 问：明确一下，周格拉蒂斯是为哪个家族工作？\n17 答：郭氏家族。\n18 问：发给你这条信息的电子邮件域名是什么？\n19 答：HCHKTECH.com。\n20 问：你知道 HCHKTECH 是什么吗？\n21 答：不知道。\n22 问：周格拉蒂斯发来的这封电子邮件的日期是哪一天？\n23 答：2021年12月6日。\n24 问：那是在发送平面图短信的大约两天之后吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 什罗夫女士：反对代为作证。\n2 法庭：异议成立。\n3 问：洛夫特斯女士，请调出政府第 1101 号物证\n4 第 12 页，重点看中间这里。\n5 来自你的蓝色信息，你是哪一天向阿隆·米切尔发送了\n6 这两条关于克罗克庄园平面图的\n7 信息的？\n8 答：12月4日。\n9 问：洛夫特斯女士，请回到 1102 号物证第 1 页。\n10 你是在几天后收到周格拉蒂斯发来的\n11 这封电子邮件的？\n12 答：12月6日。\n13 问：这封电子邮件抄送给了谁？\n14 答：阿隆·米切尔。\n15 问：弗罗西尼女士，你能读一下这封电子邮件吗？\n16 答：希望你周末过得愉快。我们前几天在达灵顿（Darlington）参观时见过了，\n17 我正好还有几个问题。第一，\n18 你在新泽西州和纽约州有没有可以推荐给我们的\n19 厨房室内设计师、窗帘和地毯公司？\n20 第二，除所附的平面图外，\n21 是否还有其他图纸可以提供给我们？\n22 第三，我在平面图第3页上圈出了三个区域。\n23 如果我们想把每一处都清空，\n24 并分别改造成单个大房间，大概需要\n25 多长时间？感谢你的协助。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 问：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以把这个缩小，请浏览\n2 政府第 1102 号物证接下来的几页。在那里停一下。\n3 弗罗西尼女士，这是什么？\n4 答：这是一份平面图。\n5 问：是关于哪处房产的？\n6 答：拉马波路675号（675 Ramapo Road）。\n7 问：你能告诉我们这份平面图代表该房产的\n8 哪个部分吗？\n9 答：我没戴眼镜，一楼。\n10 问：谢谢。我们可以把它缩小。请看下\n11 一页。这是该房产的哪个部分？\n12 答：二楼。\n13 问：请看下一页？\n14 答：三楼。\n15 问：那么，你在这份平面图上看到红框了吗？\n16 答：看到了。\n17 问：据你理解，这些红框是周女士在给你的\n18 电子邮件中提到的红框吗？洛夫特斯女士，我们可以回到\n19 第一页。\n20 再次看一下周女士电子邮件中的第三项，\n21 你看到了吗，弗罗西尼女士？\n22 答：看到了。\n23 问：洛夫特斯女士，请回到第 4 页。根据\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 那封电子邮件，据你理解，这些红框是否表示\n2 某个部分？\n3 什罗夫女士：反对诱导性发问。\n4 问：据你理解，红框\n5 表示什么？\n6 答：我从未回答过这个问题，因为我没有参与\n7 其中的任何事情。\n8 问：明白。先不论你对该问题可能给出过的任何回应（如果有的话），\n9 据你理解，那个问题是\n10 问什么的？\n11 什罗夫女士：反对，发问形式不当。\n12 法庭：你是问她是否看出了\n13 那个问题与屏幕上的内容之间存在任何关联吗？\n14 默里女士（MS. MURRAY）：是的，法官阁下。\n15 法庭：你可以回答。\n16 答：我对此真的从未作过任何评论。\n17 问：洛夫特斯女士，请翻到下一页。\n18 弗罗西尼女士，这反映了房屋的\n19 哪个部分？\n20 答：地下室。\n21 问：然后下一页，请重点看这里。\n22 弗罗西尼女士，这是你发的一封电子邮件，对吗？\n23 答：对。\n24 问：你发给谁了？\n25 答：周格拉蒂斯。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 问：抄送给谁？\n2 答：阿隆·米切尔。\n3 问：你的回复是什么？\n4 答：谢谢你的电子邮件。我明天会把设计师名单发给你，\n5 并会就下方的第二和第三项致电房屋管家。\n6 问：房屋管家是谁？\n7 答：房屋管家是温尼·拉巴贝里（Vinny Labarberi）。\n8 问：洛夫特斯女士，请翻到下一页。\n9 弗罗西尼女士，格拉蒂斯对你发出的那封电子邮件\n10 是如何回复的？\n11 答：谢谢。如果你能给我们提供一些——她说的是\n12 DWG。我认为是图纸——房屋的2D和3D文件就太好了。\n13 谢谢。\n14 问：洛夫特斯女士，请往后翻两页到第 10 页。\n15 弗罗西尼女士，你发送的这封电子邮件的主题是什么？\n16 答：平面图。\n17 问：你随这封电子邮件提供了什么？\n18 答：我从卖方那里拿到的附加平面图。\n19 问：洛夫特斯女士，请再往下翻两页。看\n20 屏幕右上角这里的图，洛夫特斯女士，请\n21 放大显示这反映的是房屋的哪个部分。\n22 缩小一下。\n23 沿边上的右上角，这些附加平面图是关于\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 哪个楼层的？\n2 答：地下室楼层地面装修设计图。\n3 问：洛夫特斯女士，请翻到下一页并\n4 做类似操作。这是在左边，左下角。\n5 答：克罗克住宅一层家具平面图。\n6 问：洛夫特斯女士，请翻到下一页。这处是在\n7 左下角，这些附加图纸是关于房屋的\n8 哪个部分的？\n9 答：克罗克住宅二层家具平面图。\n10 问：请看下一页。\n11 答：克罗克住宅二层家具平面图。\n12 问：最后，洛夫特斯女士，请看下一页。\n13 答：克罗克住宅三层家具平面图。\n14 问：我们可以把它缩小。\n15 弗罗西尼女士，克罗克庄园\n16 一共有几层？\n17 答：我不知道自己有没有记混。我认为装修好的地下层上面\n18 有三层。\n19 问：洛夫特斯女士，请翻到下一页。\n20 弗罗西尼女士，这封电子邮件的主题是什么？\n21 答：设计师。\n22 问：日期呢？\n23 答：2021年12月15日。\n24 问：你发给谁了？\n25 答：格拉蒂斯。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - Direct\n1 问：概括来说，你发给格拉蒂斯的这些设计是做什么的？\n2 答：我只是把名单提交给她了。\n3 问：这些属于什么类型的设计师？\n4 答：室内设计师。\n5 问：好的。洛夫特斯女士，请往下翻两页。\n6 缩小一下。我想我们是要再往下翻一页。\n7 洛夫特斯女士，请回到政府第 1101 号物证第 19 页。\n8 这些同样来自与阿隆·米切尔的\n9 短信记录。顶部与阿隆·米切尔的信息显示：\n10 是的，伊薇特（Yvette）中午会和大家一起到。谁是\n11 伊薇特？\n12 答：伊薇特为郭先生工作。\n13 问：然后在底部这里，如果我们看这些短信的下半部分，\n14 那条信息的日期是哪一天？\n15 答：2021年12月13日。\n16 问：你在那天给阿隆·米切尔写了什么？\n17 答：仅供参考，大家都在这里了。\n18 问：阿隆是怎么回复的？\n19 答：在路上了。以为我们是中午见。\n20 问：然后你接下来的两条回复，鉴于其中一条被截断了一部分？\n21 答：我也以为。他们改时间了。\n22 问：然后你写道，刚和伊薇特通了话。你看到了吗？\n23 答：对。我认为最后一句是“刚和伊薇特通了话”。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 他们——\n2 问：我们可以翻到下一页吗，Loftus（洛夫特斯）女士。实际上，我们往回\n3 翻一页。\n4 Frosini（弗罗西尼）女士，您记得2021年12月13日的\n5 一次会面吗？\n6 答：我们在做——我只是在想房屋检查是在\n7 什么时候。我手头没有笔记。我不知道检查是\n8 什么时候进行的。我们对房屋进行了检查，然后我们在另一天\n9 进行了结构检查，可能就是\n10 那一天。\n11 问：如果有人的话，谁参加了那些检查？\n12 答：房屋检查——我也可能记错，那家人\n13 当时不在。我全程都在。话又说回来，抱歉，\n14 我只是在猜测。然后另一天我们进行了\n15 结构检查，我相信那是他们在场\n16 的时候。\n17 SHROFF（施罗夫）女士：法官阁下，对猜测提出异议。\n18 法庭：那就不要猜。只陈述您所知道的情况。\n19 问：Loftus女士，我们看本物证的第25页。Frosini\n20 女士，在Aaron Mitchell（亚伦·米切尔）发来的第一条信息中，\n21 第一条灰色信息，您能读一下那条信息吗？\n22 答：我发的那条灰色的？\n23 问：抱歉，是Aaron Mitchell发来的灰色那条。\n24 答：谢谢，周四有任何时间会有人在那里吗，或者能否\n25 有人在那里让Scott和承包商一起进去。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 问：Scott（斯科特）是谁？\n2 答：Scott是个安保职位。不知道他的头衔。\n3 问：Loftus女士，请翻到下一页，重点看\n4 这条信息的上半部分。\n5 您看到您发给Aaron\n6 Mitchell的短信了吗？\n7 答：看到了。\n8 问：内容部分写着，我按Gladys的要求给她发了一批\n9 高端设计师。如果你们需要我提供任何东西，请告诉我。您当时给Gladys发了什么类型的设计师名单？\n10 答：室内设计师。\n11 问：请翻到下一页。您能否读一下\n12 您在这一页发给Aaron Mitchell的第一条短信？\n13 答：我明天上午会见卖家。事实上，他想让我\n14 安排建筑师和委托人之间的时间，何时或\n15 今晚。请告诉我。\n16 问：谁是委托人（principle）？\n17 答：客户，买家。\n18 问：当您写下委托人时，您具体指的是哪位\n19 个人？\n20 答：买家们，那家人。\n21 问：哪家人，Frosini女士？\n22 答：Guo（郭）家。\n23 问：然后往下看大约页面三分之二处。\n24 有一条Aaron Mitchell发来的以Scott开头的短信。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 您能读一下那条以及您的回复吗？\n2 答：Scott将在11点到那里。\n3 问：您的回复是什么？\n4 答：好的，我和他碰头。\n5 问：请翻到下一页，并读一下最上面的\n6 两条短信，第一条是Aaron Mitchell发来的？\n7 答：建筑师和Vinny能来纽约商讨\n8 方案吗。\n9 问：然后您的回复是什么？\n10 答：我去问问时间。只是个想法，您不觉得最好\n11 在房子那里见面吗，以防他们需要查看各个房间。\n12 问：然后在这个记录链中往下看一点，2021年12月17日，\n13 Aaron Mitchell发来的第二条信息。也就是本页上他发来的\n14 最后一条信息，上面写着什么？\n15 答：你能把结构检查的发票发给Amy吗。\n16 问：Amy（艾米）是谁？\n17 答：Amy Buck（艾米·巴克）是房地产律师。\n18 问：什么房地产律师？\n19 答：她是为买家经办过户手续的人。\n20 问：Loftus女士，请翻到下一页。\n21 我们可以放大看那里。看这一页上Aaron Mitchell发来的最后一条\n22 信息，他给您写了什么，从Did you开始？\n23 答：你拿到那1500美元的收据了吗（Did you get a receipt for the $1500）。\n24 问：您能再读一遍那条信息吗。我想您可能\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 漏了一个词。\n2 答：你给Y，字母Y，拿到那1500美元的收据了吗（Did you get Y, the letter Y, a receipt for the $1500）。\n3 问：您理解中的“Y”是指谁？\n4 答：你给Yvette（伊薇特）拿到那1500美元的收据了吗。\n5 问：Loftus女士，请翻到下一页。\n6 Frosini女士，您写道，已把修改版发给你和Amy。\n7 Aaron Mitchell回复了。然后是您以\n8 Aaron开头的下一条信息。请读一下那条短信好吗？\n9 答：Aaron，请代我祝贺买家。他们人\n10 很好，他们的员工也是。我需要和你谈谈我\n11 能为他们做些什么来向他们表示感谢。再次感谢，Aaron。\n12 问：在这条信息中，Frosini女士，当您说买家时，您\n13 指的是哪些人？\n14 答：郭家。\n15 问：当您指出他们的员工时，您指的\n16 是哪些员工？\n17 答：安保人员，Yvette。\n18 问：那些是谁的员工？\n19 答：你知道，我用了“员工”这个词。也许这\n20 不太恰当，但这些人是我通过郭家\n21 认识的人。\n22 问：我们看您发的下一条信息。您是在哪一天\n23 发送的“Hi Aaron”？\n24 答：2021年12月22日。\n25 问：您能读一下那条信息吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 答：嗨，Aaron。明天你有空谈谈吗。我\n2 想给买家送点东西。与此同时，给他们送一份漂亮的节日精美插花\n3 会不会很俗气？\n4 鉴于隐私因素，我不知道他们是否希望我\n5 把东西送到他们康涅狄格州的家中。我们可以明天\n6 谈。谢谢。\n7 问：Frosini女士，Aaron Mitchell对那条短信有过回复吗？\n8 答：没有。\n9 问：Loftus女士，我们可以撤下那份材料了。\n10 Frosini女士，在购买Crocker（克罗克）\n11 豪宅之后，您是否知晓该房产有进行过任何翻修（如果有的话）？\n12 答：不知道，我从没去过那里。\n13 问：您是否知道该房产到底有没有配置家具？\n14 答：不知道。\n15 问：您与Aaron Mitchell还有任何额外的或进一步的接触吗？\n16 答：没有。\n17 问：您与郭家有直接进行过任何进一步接触吗？\n18 答：在房子过户之后？\n19 问：是的。\n20 答：大概在两个月后左右。\n21 问：那次接触是什么性质？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 答：可能为了物色商业用房。\n2 问：那处商业用房在哪里？\n3 答：在Bergen County（博根县）。\n4 问：如果有人的话，谁联系了您关于物色商业\n5 用房的事？\n6 答：Aaron Mitchell是联系人，最初的联系人。\n7 问：接着发生了什么？\n8 答：然后我和安保人员谈了，主要是安保\n9 人员。\n10 问：和他们谈了什么？\n11 答：关于潜在的商业用房。\n12 问：如果有的话，是否曾经有一次您带人看了\n13 博根县的潜在商业用房？\n14 答：是的，有两三栋楼。\n15 问：如果有人的话，您带谁看了那些楼？\n16 答：两名安保和Guo先生，就一两次，但\n17 主要是安保。\n18 问：您在博根县带安保看的是什么类型的商业用房？\n19 答：办公用房。\n20 问：您是否了解谁将使用您所带看的\n21 办公用房？\n22 答：那家人无论什么业务——\n23 SHROFF女士：异议。\n24 法庭：您可以回答。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 答：无论什么业务，你知道，那家人需要办公\n2 用房的业务。我不该说那家人，是Guo先生。\n3 问：是否有某个时候，您得知了打算了解该用房的任何\n4 企业的名称？\n5 答：没有，双方从未签过合同。\n6 问：对您带看的任何商业用房提出过任何要约吗？\n7 答：我们从未起草过合同。\n8 问：Frosini女士，在那些关于商业用房的互动之后，\n9 您与郭家还有任何其他接触吗？\n10 答：没有。\n11 问：在商业用房之后，您与郭家的员工有任何接触吗？\n12 答：员工。\n13 SHROFF女士：对“郭家员工”这一措辞提出异议。\n14 法庭：异议驳回。您可以回答。\n15 答：没有，仅限于商业用房方面。\n16 问：但是在您带看商业用房之后呢？\n17 答：没有。\n18 问：您与……有什么接触？\n19 答：那家人，没有。\n20 MURRAY（默里）女士：法官阁下，请容我稍候片刻。\n21 法庭：可以。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 问：Frosini女士，基于您代表Crocker豪宅买家的\n2 互动情况，您当时理解买家购买Crocker豪宅的\n3 原因是什么？\n4 SHROFF女士：异议。\n5 法庭：异议驳回。您可以回答。\n6 答：作为他们的住宅。\n7 问：Loftus女士，请调出政府方物证\n8 Z12并翻到第19页。这已作为证据采纳。\n9 Frosini女士，看这份文件的顶端，左\n10 上角，这份文件左上角方框里的\n11 公司名称是什么？\n12 SHROFF女士：异议。除了宣读文件之外没有任何提问。\n13 这是不当的。她可以就该文件提问。\n14 14 法庭：该文件是否已作为证据采纳？\n15 MURRAY女士：采纳了，法官阁下。\n16 法庭：请重申问题。\n17 问：这里左上角列出的实体名称是什么？\n18 SHROFF女士：异议。\n19 法庭：异议驳回。您可以回答。\n20 答：Crane Advisory Group, LLC。\n21 问：右上角方框里的名称呢？\n22 答：右上角。\n23 问：是的？\n24 答：Crane Advisory Group, LLC。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 直接询问\n1 问：Frosini女士，您以前见过这份文件吗？\n2 答：从没见过。\n3 问：看页面中间带有黄色边框的第一个方框，\n4 您认得那里列出的实体名称吗？\n5 答：Lawall & Mitchell, LLC。\n6 问：您认得那家公司吗？\n7 答：认得，那是Aaron Mitchell。\n8 问：然后看这里底部，沿着底部列出的三家不同\n9 公司，从左下角开始，\n10 那是什么？\n11 答：McDonnell Whitaker Attorney Trust。\n12 问：中间呢？\n13 答：Insight Title Services LLC Trust。\n14 问：中偏右上方呢？\n15 答：Buck Esquire LLC Attorney Trust account。\n16 问：您熟悉Buck Esquire LLC吗？\n17 答：那是Amy Buck，那位律师。\n18 法庭：谁的律师？\n19 证人：买方的，房地产律师。\n20 经办房地产交易的那位。\n21 法庭：继续。\n22 问：请翻到下一页，重点看上半\n23 部分。\n24 Frosini女士，您看到这里列出的房产位置了吗，\n25 它在G项下？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 反向询问\n1 问：房产位置在Mahwah, New Jersey（新泽西州马瓦）Ramapo Valley Road 675号。\n2 答：房产位置为新泽西州马瓦Ramapo Valley Road 675号。\n3 问：那就是Crocker豪宅，对吗？\n4 答：对。\n5 问：看那右侧的H项，结算代理人，谁被列为结算机构？\n6 答：Insight Title Services, LLC。\n7 问：再往左看一点，这里的D项，借款人姓名和地址，\n8 借款人的姓名和地址是什么？\n9 答：借款人是Taurus Fund, LLC。\n10 问：最后，我们这里看的屏幕底部附近左侧的101项，\n11 Crocker豪宅列出的合同销售价格是多少？\n12 答：2600万（26 million）。\n13 MURRAY女士：法官阁下，请再稍等片刻。\n14 没有其他问题了。\n15 法庭：反向询问。\n16 SHROFF女士：谢谢，法官阁下。我能否把\n17 那份物证重新调出来。谢谢。\n18 反向询问\n19 由SHROFF女士进行：\n20 问：能否给我调出那份文件的第一页。\n21 下午好，Frosini女士，您好吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini（弗罗西尼）- 交叉询问（Cross）\n1 答：好的。谢谢。\n2 问：Ms. Frosini（弗罗西尼女士），刚才政府方律师向您出示了这份文件，\n3 对吗？\n4 答：对。\n5 问：在今天之前，您与政府方律师见过面，对吗？\n6 答：通过 Zoom。\n7 问：通过 Zoom 或其他方式，您都与她见过面，对吧？\n8 答：我见过 Micah Fergenson（米卡·费根森），第一次是在一个周五\n9 通过 Zoom 与她见面的。\n10 问：上周五？\n11 答：是和 Micah Fergenson，是的。\n12 问：她向您出示了这份文件；是这样吗？\n13 答：没有。\n14 问：我是说，就在刚才直接询问时，她向您出示了这份\n15 文件？\n16 答：是的。\n17 问：对吧？\n18 答：是的。\n19 问：让您阅读了这份文件，对吗？\n20 答：对。\n21 问：请您再帮我看一眼这份文件。\n22 您说过您以前从未见过它，对吗？\n23 答：对。\n24 问：您完全不知道它是否准确，对吗？\n25 答：对。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区法庭速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 交叉询问\n1 问：您能告诉我，您在这份文件的哪里看到了 Miles Guo（郭文贵）\n2 这个名字吗？\n3 答：我看到谁的名字？\n4 问：Miles Guo。\n5 答：没有。\n6 问：那 May Guo（郭美）呢？\n7 答：没有。\n8 问：那 Miles Guo 的妻子呢？\n9 答：没有。\n10 问：那 Miles Guo 的女儿呢？\n11 答：没有。\n12 问：那 Miles Guo 的工作人员呢？\n13 答：没有。\n14 MS. MURRAY（默里女士）：法官阁下，我们自认 Miles Guo 不在\n15 这份文件上。\n16 法庭（THE COURT）：好的。\n17 问：所以她还问了您关于这个名为 Crane Advisory（克兰咨询）的\n18 团体，对吗？\n19 答：对。\n20 问：当您周五与检察官会面时，她问过您关于\n21 Crane Advisory 的事吗？\n22 答：没有。\n23 问：因为您对 Crane 一无所知，对吧？\n24 答：对。\n25 问：而且显而易见，您对 Hamilton\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 交叉询问\n1 Opportunity Fund（汉密尔顿机会基金）也一无所知，对吗？\n2 答：对。\n3 问：而您在这里唯一知道的，就是与您共事过的\n4 那些人，对吗？\n5 答：那两位律师。\n6 问：对吧？\n7 答：对。\n8 问：那就是 Lawall & Mitchell（劳沃尔与米切尔律所），对吧？\n9 答：是的，McDonnell Whitaker（麦克唐纳·惠特克）和 Buck Esquire（巴克律师）。我不\n10 认识 Buck Esquire 本人，但我知道这个名字。\n11 问：那么请把那个撤下。\n12 现在，我想看一下政府方证物 1100（Government Exhibit 1100），\n13 请您看一下——能否请帮我把画面\n14 放大一点。非常感谢。您能否告诉陪审团，\n15 这份文件是由谁制作的？\n16 答：挂牌代理人，即卖方代理人。\n17 问：什么是挂牌代理人？\n18 答：挂牌代理人代表卖方。\n19 问：这份文件在哪里公开，谁能看到它？\n20 答：这是通过新泽西州多重上市服务（New Jersey multiple listing\n21 service）公开发布的。\n22 问：比如如果有人想买房，他们就会看到它？\n23 答：对。\n24 问：这就像是“来看看我的房子吧”这种广告性质的\n25 东西吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 交叉询问\n1 答：当然。它告知公众该房屋已投放\n2 市场。\n3 问：而且它是为了促成房屋销售，对吧？\n4 答：对。\n5 问：它突出了该物业的优点，对吗？\n6 答：对。\n7 问：如果可以避免，且法律没有强制要求，\n8 您不一定会公布该物业的缺点，\n9 对吗？\n10 MS. MURRAY：反对，要求证人进行推测。\n11 法庭：反对无效。您可以回答。\n12 答：您能重复一遍吗。\n13 问：当然。如果法律没有要求，法律并未要求进行\n14 披露，您不一定会突出该物业的\n15 负面情况，对吗？\n16 答：我的意思是如果有负面情况，我是说，你需要\n17 披露物业的实际状况。我实在不明白\n18 您问的是什么。\n19 问：这么说吧，如果第三间卧室完全照不到阳光，您\n20 就不会把它写在这份报告上，对吧？\n21 MS. MURRAY：反对，法官阁下，理由同前。\n22 法庭：反对无效。\n23 问：您就不会把那个写在——\n24 答：那不是房屋的亮点，所以不会把它写在\n25 上面。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 交叉询问\n1 问：所以您是在那份挂牌信息上突出房屋的亮点，\n2 对吧？\n3 答：对。\n4 问：那么我们稍微往下滚动一下，请继续\n5 往下翻。这里是对该物业的\n6 描述，对吗？\n7 答：对。\n8 问：这不是由您准备的，对吧？\n9 答：不，不是我准备的。\n10 问：在与您谈论该物业时，政府方\n11 律师还询问了您有关第二处物业的情况，对吗？\n12 答：对。\n13 问：那是在 Hyde Park（海德公园）？\n14 答：对，纽约州 Hyde Park（Hyde Park, New York）。\n15 问：那是该物业的名称还是地名？\n16 答：那是镇名。\n17 问：您今天坐在这里，知道该物业的名称吗？您还记得吗？\n18\n19 答：Ledge（岩架）什么，我记不清了。\n20 问：您知道这两处物业哪一处更贵吗？\n21 答：Ledge。\n22 问：Ledge 更贵。Hyde Park 的物业比\n23 这一处更贵？\n24 答：对。\n25 问：请继续往下滚动并继续往下翻。如果我\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 交叉询问\n1 可以请把那个放大一点。我想请问您，这是\n2 一份标准合同吗？\n3 答：美国全国房地产经纪人协会（National Association of Realtors），这是房产经纪人在开始就交易进行谈判时\n4 所制定的合同。\n5 问：您使用的是标准格式，对吧？\n6 答：是的。\n7 问：如果我们能滚动到签名栏，这里有签名，\n8 对吧？\n9 答：是的。\n10 问：左侧是由卖方 Crocker\n11 Mansion Estate LLC（克罗克庄园地产有限责任公司）签署的，对吧？\n12 答：是的。\n13 问：那是谁？\n14 答：卖方。\n15 问：是的，但 Crocker Mansion Estate, LLC 是谁？\n16 答：那是卖方的有限责任公司。\n17 问：您不知道具体是谁，对吧？\n18 是否有一位 Crocker Mansion Estate LLC 先生和夫人？\n19\n20 答：没有。\n21 问：这里的买方是谁？\n22 答：Taurus Fund SP（金牛座独立投资组合基金）。\n23 问：您显然收到了这份文件，因为您在下方进行了电子签名，\n24 对吧？\n25 答：对。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 交叉询问\n1 问：在您的所有认知与业务范围内，买方就是 Taurus Fund SP，\n2 对吗？\n3 答：对。\n4 问：不是 Miles Guo，对吧？\n5 答：是 Taurus Fund SP。\n6 问：而且不是 Miles Guo，对吗？\n7 答：我不知道是谁。我没有问。我只是起草\n8 合同，然后交给律师。\n9 问：对。但上面没有写 Taurus, Miles Guo，对吧？\n10 MS. MURRAY：提问重复，证人已作答。\n11 法庭：反对成立。\n12 答：上面写的是 Taurus Fund SP。我不知道该基金\n13 包含谁。\n14 问：您知道是一家基金在购买，对吗？\n15 答：当我询问律师合同该写谁时，我被\n16 告知填入 Taurus Fund SP。\n17 问：如果现在有人想出售该物业，唯一的\n18 卖方只能是 Taurus Fund SP，对吧？\n19 答：我不是律师。我不知道。如果他们更改了\n20 名称，我不知道。\n21 问：我是说如果该文件依然有效？\n22 答：对。\n23 问：唯一能够出售该物业的人、能够出售它的实体，\n24 就是 Taurus Fund SP，对吧？\n25 答：对。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 交叉询问\n1 问：您审核了这份文件，然后把它寄回给了谁？\n2 答：我把这份文件发给——一旦买方签署了这份\n3 文件，然后交由卖方签署，接着就\n4 直接送交给律师。\n5 问：谁的律师？\n6 答：发给双方律师，卖方律师和\n7 买方律师。\n8 问：是您同时发给买方和\n9 卖方律师的吗？\n10 答：我分发给卖方律师和买方律师，是的。\n11 问：您同时发给了卖方律师和买方\n12 律师？\n13 答：不，我想我只是发给了买方。有时如果我们\n14 代表买方，我们会发给买方律师、代表卖方的挂牌代理人，\n15 挂牌代理人再发给卖方律师，但他们双方都会收到这份\n16 合同。\n17 问：一旦他们双方都收到合同，您的这部分工作就\n18 基本完成了吗？\n19 答：是的，唯一的——是的，他们审核并修改合同，\n20 并拟定附加条款。在此之后我唯一的工作\n21 就是安排房屋检查。\n22 问：谁来办理物业产权的登记归档？\n23 法庭：好的。现在是下午 2:30。我们现在\n24 休庭半小时。您可以退庭。请勿\n25 讨论您的证词。我们将在下午 3:00 复庭。记住，\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO4 Frosini - 交叉询问\n1 陪审员之间不要讨论本案。不要允许他人\n2 在您面前讨论本案。不要阅读、收听或观看任何来自\n3 涉及本次审理主题之渠道的内容。\n4\n5\n6 法庭书记员（THE LAW CLERK）：陪审团退庭。\n7 （陪审团不在场）\n8 法庭：请就座。在我们复庭之前\n9 还有什么事项吗？\n10 MS. MURRAY：政府方没有，法官阁下。\n11 MS. SHROFF（施罗夫女士）：没有，法官阁下。谢谢。\n12 （休庭）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - 交叉询问\n1 （陪审团不在场）\n2 法庭：请带陪审员入庭。\n3 （陪审团在场）\n4 法庭：请就座。\n5 请记住，Ms. Frosini，您仍处于宣誓状态。\n6 证人（THE WITNESS）：好的。\n7 法庭：您可以继续进行交叉询问。\n8 MS. SHROFF：谢谢，法官阁下。\n9 由 MS. SHROFF 主问：\n10 问：Ms. Frosini，您在 Mahwah（马瓦）的房地产\n11 市场有深厚的经验，对吗？\n12 答：对。\n13 问：您本人是否居住——我不需要具体地址或\n14 其他信息——但您是否居住在那个附近？\n15 答：是的。\n16 问：您以前在那里卖过房产吗？\n17 答：在 Mahwah 吗？\n18 问：是的。\n19 答：是的。\n20 问：那么说事实上正是因为他们确定了他们感兴趣的\n21 这处特定物业，所以选定由您来进行\n22 这笔交易，这样说准确吗？\n23 答：是的。\n24 问：是这样吗？\n25 答：是的。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - 交叉询问\n1 MS. SHROFF：好的。请仅向证人和我\n2 出示辩方证物 60612（Defense Exhibit 60612）。\n3 问：现在，您知道什么是 National Register of Historical Places（美国国家史迹名录）吗？\n4\n5 答：这——再次说明，我不是挂牌代理人，但这栋住宅\n6 由于其历史地位而已被登记，但我不知道\n7 登记在了哪个名录中。\n8 问：您能否进一步解释一下\n9 该物业的历史重要性。\n10 MS. SHROFF：可以撤下了。抱歉。\n11 答：再次说明，我不是挂牌代理人，所以我没有这方面的\n12 细节。\n13 问：好吧，在您进行推销之前，您已经熟悉了该物业，对吧？\n14 答：我没有推销该物业。我不是挂牌代理人。\n15 问：对不起。我向您道歉。是在您准备出售它之前，\n16 对吗？\n17 答：是的，我知道——我知道 Crocker Mansion（克罗克庄园），但我不\n18 确定，您知道的，关于其历史价值它具体\n19 登记在哪里。\n20 问：您是否知道它被登记为历史——\n21 答：是的，这在我们收到的文件上有写。\n22 MS. SHROFF：好的。那么请仅向证人\n23 再次出示 60612。\n24 问：如果您愿意的话，能否请您浏览一下这份文件。如果\n25\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - 交叉询问\n1 我想请您看第 1 页，也许还有第 2、3 页。\n2 您认得这份表格吗？\n3 答：不认得，我从未见过这份表格。\n4 问：我知道您可能没见过，但您知道什么是《国家史迹名录》（National Register of Historic Places）登记表吗？\n5\n6 答：就历史层面而言，我从未登记过任何住宅。\n7 问：好的。但您知道被列入《国家史迹名录》意味着什么吗？\n8\n9 答：我再说一遍，关于住宅被登记后你能做什么、不能做什么，我是熟悉的。\n10\n11 但我不知道——我无法对此作答。\n12 问：好的。那么今天坐在这里，您是否记得该住宅在登记时所允许的多种用途？\n13\n14 答：不记得。他们将其挂牌列为住宅用房。\n15 问：那么您是否记得它被列出的用途是否不止一种？\n16 答：不记得。就是住宅。\n17 Shroff（什罗夫）女士：您可以把那份文件撤下了。\n18 问：所以照您的说法，这栋住宅只被登记为住宅用房；那是您的——\n19\n20 Murray（默里）女士：反对。该问题已被问过并回答完毕。\n21 法庭：反对成立。\n22 问：您是否——噢，抱歉。\n23 答：这栋房屋被挂牌——\n24 问：我想法官已经支持了反对意见，所以您不用——\n25 法庭：不要回答。\nSouthern District Reporters, P.C.（纽约南区法庭速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - 交叉询问\n1 证人：抱歉。\n2 问：那么今天坐在这里，Frosini（弗罗西尼）女士，您是否知道那栋房屋实际上被登记用作社交俱乐部？\n3\n4 答：不知道。它是住宅。\n5 问：我没问您它是不是住宅。我的问题是：今天坐在这里，您是否知道那栋房屋是否可以用作社交俱乐部？\n6\n7\n8 默里女士：反对。该问题已被问过并回答完毕。\n9 法庭：反对成立。\n10 问：在出售这栋房屋之前，您是否去了解过它可用于哪些不同用途？\n11\n12 答：没有。\n13 问：在 Taurus SB Fund（金牛座 SB 基金）与您接触之前，您是否一直在试图出售那栋房屋？\n14\n15 答：没有，在此之前没有。\n16 问：当您开始出售时——说您希望把房子卖出去，这样说妥当吗？\n17\n18 默里女士：反对，法官阁下。曲解事实。弗罗西尼女士代表买方，不是卖方。\n19\n20 法庭：所以她在交易中并不代表卖方，她代表买方。反对成立。\n21\n22 问：您希望有人把房子买下来，对吗？\n23 答：我不是挂牌经纪人，所以是卖方希望把房子卖出去。我代表的是买方，不是挂牌——不是卖方。我没有代表卖方。\n24\n25\nSouthern District Reporters, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - 交叉询问\n1 问：好的。您代表买方，对吗？\n2 答：对。\n3 问：如果房屋被买下，您能赚到钱吗？\n4 答：是的。经纪人会拿到佣金。\n5 问：对。所以即便您代表的是买方，您仍然希望房屋被买下，对吗？\n6\n7 答：这是我们的业务。\n8 问：正是。否则您怎么赚钱，对吧？\n9 答：对。\n10 问：好的。您想确保买方顺利买下来，对吗？\n11\n12 答：我希望买方买下一栋房子，只要适合买方，哪怕不是从我这里买。\n13\n14 问：而且这对您也有好处，对吗？\n15 答：我无法回答——我的重心在于我的客户，在于我的卖方和我的买方以及什么对他们最有利。我不是在盘算自己的腰包。这是我的工作，但我不会盯着自己的腰包。我尽全力为我的卖方和买方服务。\n16\n17\n18\n19 问：好的。当您想要确保为您的买方尽全力时，您会想要确保掌握有关该物业的所有信息，对吗？\n20\n21\n22 答：对。\n23 问：您希望准确了解买方可以将该物业用于什么用途，对吗？\n24\n25 答：对，但我当时是按住宅用房向其展示的。\nSouthern District Reporters, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - 交叉询问\n1 问：您认为您是按住宅用房在出售它，对吗？\n2 默里女士：法官阁下，反对。再次曲解为卖方。\n3\n4 法庭：那么——\n5 什罗夫女士：法官阁下，我重新提问。\n6 法庭：好的。\n7 问：买方并没有要求看住宅用房，对吗；买方要求看的是某处特定的物业？\n8\n9 法庭：您可以回答。\n10 答：该房屋挂牌时——是作为住宅挂牌的。MLS（房源共享系统）上写的就是住宅。买方确实要求看那两处住宅，是的。\n11\n12 问：买方要求看那两处物业。\n13 答：那两处物业，是的。\n14 问：对吗？从没说过住宅，说的是物业，对吗？\n15 默里女士：反对，法官阁下。现在作证的是证人，不是什罗夫女士。\n16\n17 法庭：所以您可以问她买方使用的是“住宅”还是“物业”这个词。\n18\n19 问：买方使用的是“物业”这个词，对吗？\n20 答：我不记得了。\n21 问：好的。让我再次给您出示仅用于识别而标为辩方证据 60612 的材料。\n22\n23 什罗夫女士：能否请翻到 4 页中的第 3 页。\n24 法官阁下，实际上，能请给我一点时间吗。\n25\nSouthern District Reporters, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - 交叉询问\n1 法庭：好的，请继续。\n2 问：那么您是否记得该物业被称为 Crocker McMillin Mansion/Immaculate Conception Seminary（克罗克·麦克米兰庄园/无玷始胎神学院）？\n3\n4 什罗夫女士：请把那份材料撤下。\n5 答：我个人从未见过那个名称。\n6 问：那么今天坐在这里，您是否知道有各色人等曾到访过该物业，且有人到访曾是营销的一部分？\n7\n8\n9 答：我不知道——我没有为卖方代理它，所以我不知道他们把房子展示给谁看过。\n10\n11 问：好的。所以因为您代表的是买方，您并没有真正试图去所谓的“推销”该物业，对吗？\n12\n13\n14 答：我没有做营销。我是为买方工作的，如果买方想要该物业，那么当然，我协助了买方购买该物业。\n15\n16\n17 问：很合理。那么您是否知道卖方是否曾将其作为一处明确可用于社交俱乐部的场所进行过营销？\n18\n19\n20 默里女士：反对，法官阁下。弗罗西尼女士如何能知道这一点？\n21\n22 什罗夫女士：因为她会与卖方以及卖方的经纪人打交道。\n23\n24 法庭：您可以回答这个问题。\n25 答：卖方，您知道，我不知道他拿这栋房子做了什么。\nSouthern District Reporters, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - 主询问\n1\n2 问：很合理。\n3 什罗夫女士：谢谢。我没有其他问题了。\n4 法庭：反询问？\n5 默里女士：谢谢，法官阁下。\n6 再主询问\n7 由默里女士进行：\n8 问：弗罗西尼女士，在交叉询问中有人向您问及一些关于 Taurus Fund（金牛座基金）的问题。您记得那些问题吗？\n9\n10 答：记得。\n11 问：是谁告诉您 Crocker Mansion（克罗克庄园）的购买实体是 Taurus Fund SB（金牛座基金 SB）的？\n12\n13 答：Aaron Mitchell（亚伦·米切尔）。\n14 问：在购买克罗克庄园一事上，亚伦·米切尔向您介绍了哪些人？\n15\n16 答：Guo（郭）氏家族。\n17 默里女士：Loftus（洛夫图斯）女士，能否请调出政府方证据 1101 第 8 页。\n18\n19 问：看亚伦·米切尔的第一条短信，弗罗西尼女士，这是关于克罗克庄园购买实体的一个提问；是这样吗？\n20\n21\n22 什罗夫女士：反对，法官阁下。超出范围。\n23 法庭：反对无效。您可以回答。\n24 答：什么——亚伦说他需要核实一下看谁将成为，是的，购买实体。\n25\nSouthern District Reporters, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 FROSINI - 再交叉询问\n1 问：那么您是否知道亚伦·米切尔与英国的哪一位（如果有的话）核实了购买实体的名称？\n2\n3 答：不知道。\n4 默里女士：谢谢，法官阁下。没有其他问题了。\n5 什罗夫女士：法官阁下，我可以提问吗？\n6 法庭：可以。\n7 什罗夫女士：请重新调出那份材料。谢谢。\n8\n9 能否放大一些。\n10 再交叉询问\n11 由什罗夫女士进行：\n12 问：您当时在与亚伦·米切尔互发短信，对吗？\n13 答：对。\n14 问：“亚伦，请致电我。谢谢。”那是您发的短信？\n15 答：是的。\n16 问：然后他给您回了短信，对吗？\n17 答：对。\n18 问：2021年12月1日？\n19 答：对。\n20 问：下午 5:47？\n21 答：对。\n22 问：“需就购买实体事宜与英国方面通话。”\n23 答：亚伦是这么说的。\n24 问：什么是实体？\n25 答：因为我之前问了——\nSouthern District Reporters, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Frosini - 再主询问\n1 问：什么是实体？\n2 答：购买该物业、该住宅的实体。\n3 问：它不是一个人，对吗？\n4 答：那——对。\n5 问：它不是一个个人，对吗？\n6 答：对。\n7 问：他说“明早回复你”，并且他要与英国的某人通话？\n8\n9 答：是的，对。\n10 问：您回复说“谢谢亚伦”，对吗？\n11 答：对。\n12 问：关于该话题您没有再多说什么，对吗？\n13 答：对。\n14 问：没有询问实体是谁，对吗？\n15 答：对。\n16 问：关于购买实体完全没有任何后话，对吗？\n17 答：对。\n18 什罗夫女士：没有其他问题了。\n19 默里女士：就简短问一下，法官阁下。\n20 再主询问\n21 由默里女士进行：\n22 问：弗罗西尼女士，您知道 William Je（余建明）住在哪里吗？\n23 答：余建明？\n24 什罗夫女士：反对。超出范围。\n25 法庭：反对无效。您可以回答。\nSouthern District Reporters, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 主询问\n1 答：抱歉。谁？\n2 问：余建明。\n3 答：不知道。\n4 默里女士：谢谢。没有其他问题了。\n5 什罗夫女士：法官阁下，我还有一个问题。\n6 再交叉询问\n7 由什罗夫女士进行：\n8 问：您究竟知不知道余建明是谁？\n9 答：不知道。\n10 什罗夫女士：好的。谢谢。\n11 法庭：好的。那么您可以退庭了。谢谢您。\n12\n13 证人：谢谢。\n14 法庭：政府方可以传唤下一位证人。\n15\n16 （证人退庭）\n17 Finkel（芬克尔）先生：政府方传唤 Limarie Reyes（利马丽·雷耶斯）。\n18 法庭书记员：请举起您的右手。\n19\n20 （证人宣誓）\n21 法庭书记员：谢谢。\n22 法庭：好的。请就座。并请将麦克风拉到非常靠近嘴部的位置，以便我们能听清您的声音。大声说。报出您的姓名并拼读。\n23\n24\n25 证人：我的名字是 Limarie Reyes，拼作\nSouthern District Reporters, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 主询问\n1 L-I-M-A-R-I-E, R-E——\n2 法庭：我听不清您的声音，所以您确实需要把麦克风完全拉到嘴边，对着麦克风大声说。\n3\n4\n5 证人：我的名字是 Limarie Reyes，拼作 L-I-M-A-R-I-E, R-E-Y-E-S。\n6\n7 法庭：您可以询问了。\n8 芬克尔先生：谢谢，法官阁下。\n9 LIMARIE REYES（利马丽·雷耶斯），\n10 由政府方传唤为证人，\n11 经正式宣誓后，作证如下：\n12 主询问\n13 由芬克尔先生进行：\n14 问：下午好。\n15 答：下午好。\n16 问：您居住在该国的哪个地区？\n17 答：Puerto Rico（波多黎各）。\n18 问：您目前在哪里工作？\n19 答：我之前一直处于失业状态。我现在正在从事自己的活动策划业务。\n20\n21 问：从事什么？\n22 答：活动策划。\n23 问：那家企业的名称是什么？\n24 答：Sprinkle Events。\n25 问：Sprinkle Events 策划什么类型的活动？\nSouthern District Reporters, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 主询问\n1 答：我们承办儿童派对、生日派对，也承办小型企业活动。\n2\n3 问：Sprinkle Events 有多少名员工？\n4 答：就我一个人。\n5 问：Sprinkle Events 已经策划了多少场活动？\n6 答：大约五场左右。\n7 问：您提到了儿童派对。参加派对的孩子多大年纪？\n8\n9 答：主要是 1 岁和 10 岁。\n10 问：您在 Sprinkle Events 工作——或者拥有它多久了？\n11 答：从 11 月开始。\n12 问：Sprinkle Events 举办的活动，就那五场活动而言，预算大约是多少？\n13\n14 答：大约在 2500 左右。\n15 问：您刚才说在经营 Sprinkle Events 之前曾失业了一段时间？\n16\n17 答：是的。\n18 问：在那之前，您在哪里工作？\n19 答：我在 G/CLUBS 工作。\n20 问：您在 G/CLUBS 的职务是什么？\n21 答：随时间有所变动。我最初担任营销与活动副总裁；后来成为临时 CEO，再后来成为 CEO。\n22\n23 法庭：我需要您尽量靠紧麦克风，以便法庭内的所有人都能听清您的声音。\n24\n25 问：您大约是什么时候进入 G/CLUBS 工作的？\nSouthern District Reporters, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 答：2020年12月。\n2 问：你刚入职时的职位是什么？\n3 答：市场与活动副总裁。\n4 问：你刚才说，你是什么时候成为临时首席执行官（interim CEO）的？\n5 答：大约2021年2月。\n6 问：那你又是什么时候成为首席执行官（CEO）的？\n7 答：大约2021年夏季。\n8 问：Reyes（雷耶斯）女士，作为 G/CLUBS 的首席执行官，你对涉及 G/CLUBS 的所有事项拥有最终决策权吗？\n9 10 答：不，我没有。\n11 问：G Club（G俱乐部）是由你负责主管吗？\n12 答：不，不是。\n13 问：作为首席执行官职责的一部分，你会获悉 G/CLUBS 的营收、月度营收的最新情况吗？\n14 15 答：不会定期获悉，不会。\n16 问：G/CLUBS 的预算是你制定的吗？\n17 答：不是。\n18 问：作为 G/CLUBS 的首席执行官，你向谁汇报工作？\n19 答：我向最终受益所有人（ultimate beneficial owner, UBO）Mr. He（何先生）汇报。\n20 法庭：好的。你的声音太小了，我需要你大声一点，因为这里的法庭速记员正在记录你说的话，而且后排的所有人也需要听到，所以大声说。\n21 22 23 24 证人：抱歉。\n25 问：你向谁汇报？你在担任 G/CLUBS 首席执行官期间，\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 向谁汇报？\n2 答：Mr. He。\n3 问：他的名字是什么？\n4 答：Haoran He（何浩然）。\n5 问：He 怎么拼写？\n6 答：H-E。\n7 问：你还向其他人汇报过吗？\n8 答：是的，我也向 Yvette 汇报。\n9 问：她姓什么？\n10 答：Wang（王）。\n11 问：你是什么时候离开 G/CLUBS 的？\n12 答：2023年3月。\n13 问：雷耶斯女士，那么总共算下来，你担任 G/CLUBS 临时首席执行官及首席执行官有多长时间？\n14 15 答：我在 G/CLUBS 大约待了两年半。\n16 问：据你理解，G/CLUBS 应该是一个什么样的机构？\n17 18 答：它是一个为其会员提供福利的会员制俱乐部。\n19 20 问：G/CLUBS 是一个政治组织吗？\n21 答：不是。\n22 问：成为 G/CLUBS 会员需要多少费用？\n23 答：这取决于不同的层级。金额在 $10,000 到 $50,000 之间，视层级而定。\n24 25 问：一共有多少个层级？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 答：五个。\n2 问：每个层级多少钱？\n3 答：第1级是 10,000；第2级是 20,000；第3级是 30,000；第4级是 40,000；第5级是 50,000。\n4 5 问：会员资格有年费吗？\n6 答：有的。在初次入会费之后，年费是其所在层级金额的 5%。\n7 8 问：如果会员不缴纳年费，他们的会员资格会怎样？\n9 10 答：会被停用（inactivated）。\n11 问：如果停用了，该会员还能使用 G/CLUBS 提供的福利吗？\n12 13 答：不能。\n14 问：雷耶斯女士，G/CLUBS 是否向其会员提供 G/CLUBS 的股票？\n15 16 答：没有，没有提供。\n17 问：G/CLUBS 是否向其会员提供 G Fashion 的股票？\n18 答：没有。\n19 问：G/CLUBS 是否向其会员提供任何公司的股票？\n20 答：没有。\n21 问：G/CLUBS 是一个投资俱乐部吗？\n22 答：不是。\n23 MR. FINKEL（芬克尔先生）：Loftus 女士，请播放已作为 GX C160-V 采纳为证据的视频。调到 11:35。\n24 25 问：雷耶斯女士，你认得屏幕上的这个人吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 答：认得。\n2 问：是谁？\n3 答：Mr. Guo（郭先生）。\n4 问：他的名字是什么？\n5 答：Miles Guo（郭文贵）。\n6 问：你还知道他的其他名字吗？\n7 答：Kwok。\n8 问：那个怎么拼写？\n9 答：K-W-O-K？我不确定。\n10 问：你在 G/CLUBS 共事的同事以及你自己，是否用过其他称谓来称呼 Miles Guo？\n11 12 答：我听过 Boss（老板）、principal（负责人）。\n13 芬克尔先生：Loftus 女士，请播放那段视频。\n14 （播放视频）\n15 芬克尔先生：就在那里暂停。\n16 问：雷耶斯女士，郭先生刚才说的——只要购买 $50,000 的 G Club 会员资格就能获得 G Fashion 股票——是真的吗？\n17 18 答：不是真的。\n19 问：你今天在这间法庭里看到郭先生了吗？\n20 答：看到了。\n21 问：你能指出他——\n22 MR. KAMARAJU（卡马拉朱先生）：法官阁下，我们对身份确认予以自认（stipulate）。\n23 24 法庭：好的。请继续。\n25 问：G Club 的会员名额有限、只有特定名额可用，这是真的吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 2 答：不是真的。\n3 芬克尔先生：可以关掉那个了。\n4 问：你在 G/CLUBS 工作期间，看过我们刚才在法庭上看的这段视频吗？\n5 6 答：据我回忆没有，没看过。\n7 问：雷耶斯女士，你在担任 G/CLUBS 首席执行官期间，是否曾一度知悉 G/CLUBS 会员期望获得股票？\n8 9 10 答：是的，曾有过。\n11 法庭：好的。我必须提醒你提高声音，以便陪审团和我们其他人能听清你的证词。\n12 13 14 问：你可以把麦克风移到离你尽可能近的位置。请随意调整以便坐得舒服。尽量对着麦克风直接说话，好吗？\n15 16 雷耶斯女士，据你理解，为什么 G/CLUBS 会员、或者其中一部分会员在购买 G/CLUBS 会员资格时会期望获得股票？\n17 18 19 20 卡马拉朱先生：反对。\n21 法庭：反对无效。\n22 问：你可以回答。\n23 答：你能重复一下问题吗？抱歉。\n24 问：据你理解，为什么有些 G/CLUBS 会员在购买 G/CLUBS 会员资格时会期望获得股票？\n25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 2 答：曾经有一段视频，郭先生在视频中提到过他们会得到股票。\n3 4 问：雷耶斯女士，在你担任 G/CLUBS 首席执行官期间，你是在什么时候告诉郭先生他不应该说 G/CLUBS 会员会获得股票的？\n5 6 7 卡马拉朱先生：反对。缺乏事实基础（Lack of foundation）。\n8 法庭：好的。那我们放慢一点节奏。\n9 10 芬克尔先生：好的。\n11 问：雷耶斯女士，在你担任 G/CLUBS 首席执行官期间，如果有过的话，你是否曾在某个时候告诉郭先生不要在视频中说 G/CLUBS 会员会获得股票？\n12 13 14 答：不，我没有。\n15 问：你为什么没有对他说？\n16 答：我觉得我没有权力对他说那个。\n17 问：你觉得你没有权力对郭先生说那个，是什么意思？\n18 19 答：我不认为自己是该说那话的人。我得依靠所有者，而不是我。\n20 21 问：那是谁？\n22 答：何先生。\n23 问：我们稍后再回到 G/CLUBS 的话题。\n24 雷耶斯女士，你今天到庭作证是依据与政府达成的一项协议吗？\n25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 答：是的。\n2 问：那是什么类型的协议，或者说该协议叫什么？\n3 4 答：暂缓起诉协议（Nonprosecution agreement）。\n5 问：据你理解，你在该暂缓起诉协议下的义务是什么？\n6 7 答：我必须说实话、在被询问时提供信息、参加会议、在被要求时作证，并且不得犯罪。\n8 9 问：如果你履行了该暂缓起诉协议下的义务，政府向你承诺了什么？\n10 11 答：不起诉我在 G/CLUBS 期间的任何罪行。\n12 问：最后那部分我没听清。\n13 答：我在 G/CLUBS 期间。\n14 法庭：也许你可以靠麦克风近一些，近到快要碰到的程度。靠得非常近。\n15 16 芬克尔先生：你可以移动麦克风。没关系的。好吗？你可以移一下。\n17 18 问：除了暂缓起诉协议涵盖你在 G/CLUBS 的行为之外，它还涵盖其他任何事项吗？\n19 20 答：抱歉。你能重复一遍吗？\n21 问：好的。你说过，如果你履行了暂缓起诉协议中你必须做的事，政府就不会因你在 G/CLUBS 工作期间的工作而起诉你。除此以外，还有其他任何政府不会起诉你的事项吗？\n22 23 24 25 答：没有。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 问：如果你今天在这里撒谎，你的暂缓起诉协议会发生什么？\n2 3 答：它会被取消、作废。\n4 问：如果你今天在这里撒谎，你会被控伪证罪（perjury）吗？\n5 6 答：会的。\n7 问：如果你这份暂缓起诉协议被撕毁，你过去向政府陈述的内容会被用来对付你吗？\n8 9 10 答：我想会是的。\n11 问：在你今天作证之前，你大约与政府会面过多少次？\n12 13 答：我想有十次以上。\n14 问：雷耶斯女士，本案审判或任何审判的结果，对你的暂缓起诉协议是否被撕毁有任何影响吗？\n15 16 17 卡马拉朱先生：反对提问形式。\n18 问：我换个问法。撤回。\n19 本案审判的结果对你的暂缓起诉协议有任何影响吗？\n20 21 答：没有。\n22 问：Steve Weber 是谁？\n23 答：Steve Weber 是招聘人员，他在我应聘 G/CLUBS 职位时对我进行了面试。\n24 25 问：在与 Steve Weber 面试之后，如果有的话，你还与谁进行了面试？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 2 答：我和 Jessica 以及 Yvette 进行了面试。\n3 芬克尔先生：请展示已采纳为证据的政府方证物 102（Government Exhibit 102）。\n4 5 问：雷耶斯女士，政府方证物 102 中显示的是谁？\n6 答：Yvette。\n7 问：在你应聘 G/CLUBS 期间，Yvette 问了你什么问题？\n8 9 答：她询问了我的经历以及我过去的工作、我的活动策划经验、我……我之前做过些什么。\n10 11 问：雷耶斯女士，你会讲什么语言？\n12 答：西班牙语和英语。\n13 问：你会讲普通话（Mandarin）吗？\n14 答：不会。\n15 问：Wang 女士问过你是否会讲普通话吗？\n16 答：据我回忆没有。\n17 问：Yvette 问过关于你的政治信仰吗？\n18 答：据我回忆没有。\n19 问：她问过关于中国共产党的事吗？\n20 答：据我回忆没有。\n21 问：她问过关于你对中国民主的立场（如果有的话）吗？\n22 23 答：据我回忆没有。\n24 问：你对中国共产党的立场（如果有的话）是什么？\n25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 答：我没有任何立场。\n2 问：你关注中国政治吗？\n3 答：不关注。\n4 问：你会说你熟悉中国文化吗？\n5 答：不会。\n6 问：在面试期间，Yvette 提到过任何关于新中国联邦（New Federal State of China）的事吗？\n7 8 答：据我回忆没有。\n9 问：你是新中国联邦的成员吗？\n10 答：不是。\n11 问：在面试期间，Yvette 提到过 G/CLUBS 与爆料革命运动（whistleblower movement）有任何关联吗？\n12 13 答：据我回忆没有。\n14 芬克尔先生：请展示已标示为证据 GX BR470 的材料，仅供证人查看。\n15 16 请翻到下一页。\n17 下一页。\n18 先把那个撤下来一下。\n19 请稍等片刻。\n20 由芬克尔先生继续询问：\n21 问：雷耶斯女士，关于你与 Yvette 的面试，Yvette 是否提到过一个名叫 Victor 的人？\n22 23 答：抱歉。在我……期间——\n24 问：关于你应聘 G/CLUBS 的面试，在你被录用前与 Yvette 接触时，Yvette 是否提到过一个名叫\n25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 Victor 的人？\n2 答：面试期间没有，但在……不同沟通联络中有提到过，是的。\n3 4 问：Victor 是谁？\n5 答：当时我不知道，但后来我得知他是一名律师。\n6 7 问：他姓什么？\n8 答：Cerda。\n9 芬克尔先生：请展示已采纳为证据的 GX 109。\n10 11 问：GX 109 中的这个人是谁？\n12 答：Victor。\n13 问：你知道 Yvette 为什么会在你应聘 G/CLUBS 的过程中提到 Victor 吗？\n14 15 答：我不知道。\n16 卡马拉朱先生：反对提问形式。\n17 法庭：反对成立。她怎么可能知道 Yvette 心里想的是什么？\n18 19 问：在关于你应聘 G/CLUBS 的背景下，Yvette 有没有说过她为什么要提到 Victor？\n20 21 答：说他可能会联系我。\n22 问：为了什么事？\n23 答：面试。\n24 问：与 Yvette 面试后，你被录用了吗？\n25 答：是的，我被录用了。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 主问\n\n问：担任什么职务？\n答：市场与活动副总裁。\n问：您刚入职 G/CLUBS（G俱乐部）时的薪资是多少？\n答：大约10万美元左右。\n问：在去 G/CLUBS 之前的那份工作，您是做什么的？\n答：活动经理。\n问：之前那份工作的薪资是多少？\n答：大约6万美元左右。\n问：雷耶斯女士（Ms. Reyes），您刚入职时，G/CLUBS 的办公室设在哪里？\n答：我刚开始工作时是在一个共享办公空间，后来我们在圣胡安（San Juan）有了自己的办公场所。\n问：那个共享办公空间在哪里？\n答：圣胡安。\n问：波多黎各（Puerto Rico）？\n答：是的。\n问：您刚在波多黎各圣胡安的共享办公空间工作时，那里有几名员工？\n答：只有我一个人。\n问：据您的理解（如果有的话），G/CLUBS 为何设在波多黎各？\n答：据我的理解是为了享受税收优惠。\n问：雷耶斯女士，您在 G/CLUBS 工作期间，薪酬是如何支付的？\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区法院速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 主问\n\n答：通过直接银行转账（direct deposit）。\n问：G/CLUBS 是否提供医疗保险？\n答：是的。\n问：有工资发放系统吗？\n答：有的。\n问：您在 G/CLUBS 期间，是否认为这是一家合法正当的企业？\n答：是的。\n问：您是否认为自己当时在从事任何犯罪行为？\n答：没有。\n问：在您之后还有录用其他员工吗？\n答：有的。\n问：在您供职于 G/CLUBS 期间，大约有多少名员工？大致的人数范围是多少？\n答：14名。\n问：您刚才提到你们从共享办公空间搬到了另一处办公室，是这样吗？\n答：是的。\n问：另一处办公室位于何处？\n答：同样在圣胡安。\n问：具体在哪里？是一栋写字楼吗？能否描述一下该办公室的情况。\n答：是的，是圣胡安地区的一栋写字楼。占了一整层。看得到海景。\n问：您受雇于 G/CLUBS 期间，是否遇到过断网或网线中断的情况？\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 主问\n\n发生这种情况时，员工们会说什么（如果有的话）？\n答：他们会开玩笑说是 CCP（中国共产党）。\n问：说是谁？\n答：CCP。\n问：为什么断网时员工会开玩笑说是 CCP 搞的？\n答：因为我们听说很多事情都是 CCP 造成的。\n问：您是否认为 CCP 导致了 G/CLUBS 的网线中断？\n卡马拉朱律师（MR. KAMARAJU）：反对。\n法庭（THE COURT）：反对无效。你可以陈述你的真实想法。\n问：你可以回答。\n答：我不知道。\n问：据您所知，G/CLUBS 是何时成立的？您知道具体日期吗？\n答：2020年。\n问：您之前提到了何浩然（Haoran He），是这样吗？\n答：是的。\n问：据您的理解，他在 G/CLUBS 扮演什么角色？\n答：最终受益所有人。\n芬克尔律师（MR. FINKEL）：请协助展示已被标记为检方证物 112 号（GX 112）以供确认的文件。\n问：您认得 GX 112 中所示的人物吗？\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 主问\n\n答：认得。\n问：这是谁？\n答：何先生（Mr. He）。\n芬克尔律师：检方向法庭提交证物 112 号。\n卡马拉朱律师：没有异议。\n法庭：采纳为证据。\n（检方证物 112 号已采纳为证据）\n问：雷耶斯女士，您是以何种方式与何先生沟通的？\n答：我通过电子邮件、WhatsApp 和语音通话与他沟通。\n问：他的电子邮箱地址是什么，何先生的邮箱地址？\n答：Coolhhr@protonmail.com。\n问：Proton Mail 是什么？\n答：他使用的电子邮件平台。\n问：您在 G/CLUBS 的电子邮箱地址是什么？\n答：Lreyes@gclubs.com。\n问：为什么您的邮箱地址是以 gclubs.com 结尾，而何先生却使用的是 Proton Mail 邮箱地址？\n卡马拉朱律师：反对提问形式。\n法庭：准许该提问。\n问：你可以回答。\n答：我不知道。\n问：与您一同在波多黎各工作的其他员工，他们使用的是 Proton 邮箱地址还是 G/CLUBS 邮箱地址？\n答：G/CLUBS。\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 主问\n\n问：据您的理解，何先生常驻何处？\n答：他住在哪里吗？\n问：是的。\n答：在英国（the UK）。\n问：何先生去过波多黎各的办公室吗？\n答：没有。\n问：您与何先生当面见过几次？\n答：两次。\n问：当您担任 G/CLUBS 的临时职务及首席执行官（CEO）期间，您多久与何先生通一次话？\n答：取决于具体任务。不算频繁，只是——按照他的要求进行。\n问：何先生会给您布置什么类型的任务？\n答：各种不同的任务。从要求起草借款——借款协议，到联络潜在合作伙伴，以及提供用于银行业务的证明文件不等。\n问：您说的借款协议是什么意思？\n答：会收到就某些具体事宜办理一笔——一笔借款的要求，然后我们会制作包含各种不同文件的——文件包。\n问：借款要求一般来自谁？\n答：视情况而定。可能来自何先生，有时来自伊薇特（Yvette，王雁平）。\n问：您曾自主决定发放借款吗？\n答：没有，我没有。\n问：G/CLUBS 向哪些实体（如果有的话）发放过借款？\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 主问\n\n答：主要是由 G Club Operations（G俱乐部运营公司）向 G Club International BVI（英属维尔京群岛G俱乐部国际公司）发放。\n问：G/CLUBS 是否曾向任何个人发放过借款？\n答：有一笔是向个人发放的，是的。\n问：G/CLUBS 发放借款的那名个人叫什么名字？\n答：迈尔森（Mileson，郭强）。\n问：迈尔森是谁？\n答：郭先生（Mr. Guo）的儿子。\n问：何先生大约要求您协助办理过多少笔借款？\n答：不太确定具体数目，但超过五笔。\n问：何先生要求您协助办理的借款总金额是多少？\n答：我不记得具体金额了。\n问：大约是多少？\n答：我认为在数百万到数千万美元左右。\n问：具体几千万或数亿美元？\n答：可能超过一亿。\n问：超过一亿美元？\n答：是的。\n问：您作为 G/CLUBS 的员工期间，何先生对待您的态度如何？\n答：视情况而定，但曾有——曾有他大声吼叫的情况。有时我觉得自己未受到尊重。他会说“你们波多黎各人做事慢吞吞的”。\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 主问\n\n问：何先生抱怨您在哪些事情上动作慢？\n答：各种任务，但就是——就是动作慢。\n问：您刚才提到 G/CLUBS 曾向迈尔森发放过一笔借款。据您的理解（如果有的话），何先生与迈尔森之间的关系性质是怎样的？\n答：我知道他们是大学同学。\n芬克尔律师：洛夫特斯女士（Ms. Loftus），请出示 GX 102。\n问：雷耶斯女士，据您所知，伊薇特在 G/CLUBS 的工资名单上吗？\n答：不在。\n问：她在 G/CLUBS 有正式头衔吗？\n答：没有。\n问：在 G/CLUBS，您和其他人如何称呼她？\n卡马拉朱律师：反对提问形式。\n法庭：请拆分提问。\n芬克尔律师：抱歉。\n问：在 G/CLUBS，大家怎么称呼伊薇特？\n答：叫她的——她的名字。\n问：除了她的名字，还有用其他称呼叫她吗？\n答：叫代表。\n问：是什么事物或谁的代表？\n答：就称作代表，但在我看来是何先生的代表。\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 主问\n\n问：伊薇特为 G/CLUBS 处理哪些方面的事务？\n答：她会在不同事务上给出指示，从借款到财务，还有就是——活动筹办，在某个时期还审核 PRF 表格、处理法务等各个方面。\n问：您提到了借款。是您刚才与何先生谈到的同类借款吗？\n答：是的。\n问：您通过哪些方式与伊薇特沟通？\n答：随着时间推移有所变化。最早是电子邮件，后来用 WhatsApp，再后来用 Signal，以及语音通话。\n问：作为 G/CLUBS 的员工，伊薇特对待您的态度如何？\n答：她对我挺好的。只有在事情不一定——当我们有不同建议时，气氛可能会变得有点紧张。\n问：有什么事情曾导致与伊薇特之间气氛紧张？\n答：我确实记得有一次，当时有一项转账资金的要求，而得到的建议是不要转，在那件事上气氛就很紧张。有一次——\n法庭：请稍等。是谁的建议不要转，又是谁提出的转账要求？\n证人（THE WITNESS）：是法务建议不要转。\n法庭：您说“法务”，是指律师吗？\n证人：是法律顾问，是的。\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 主问\n\n法庭：好的。请继续。提出要求的又是谁？\n证人：在这个情况下是伊薇特。\n芬克尔律师提问：\n问：建议不要进行转账的律师，是 G/CLUBS 的公司内部法律顾问（in-house counsel）吗？\n答：是的。\n问：当您把该建议转达给伊薇特时，她是如何回应的？\n答：她说我们必须得转，而且——不是原话，但意思是如果我们不转，就好像——责任全在我身上，如果出了什么差错就是我的错。\n问：那笔转账涉及多少金额？\n答：据我所能回想起来的，大约是500万美元左右。\n问：那笔款项转到了哪里？\n答：转到了一家银行。我不确定是哪一家。\n问：当伊薇特说如果您不转账责任就在您身上时，您有何感受？\n答：我觉得这不公平。\n问：为什么？\n答：因为我只是在转达——法律顾问的意见，而且我认为——我应当依赖他们的建议。\n问：您当时是否问过伊薇特，如果转账未成功，为什么责任会在您身上？\n答：没有，我不记得有问过。\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 主问\n\n问：您是否问过伊薇特，既然法律顾问明确表示不应转账，为何还要进行这笔转账？\n答：我不记得了。\n问：您当时有没有问过是否可以暂缓，G/CLUBS 能否改天再进行转账？\n答：没有，我——我只记得那就是指令。\n问：当您收到伊薇特的指令时，您通常会向她提出很多疑问吗？\n答：不会。\n问：当您收到何先生的指令时，您通常会向他提出任何疑问吗？\n答：不会。\n问：您刚才与伊薇特谈到的那笔转账，您最终执行了吗？您操作处理了吗？\n答：最终还是执行了，是的。\n问：伊薇特是否向您表示过——好的，撤回该问题。\n芬克尔律师：洛夫特斯女士，我们可以把那个撤下了。另外，能否向证人展示已被标记为检方证物 101 号（GX 101）以供确认的文件。\n问：那是谁？\n答：郭先生（Mr. Guo）。\n芬克尔律师：检方向法庭提交证物 101 号。\n卡马拉朱律师：没有异议。\n法庭：采纳为证据。\n（检方证物 101 号已采纳为证据）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 主问\n\n问：Miles Guo（郭文贵）在 G/CLUBS 的头衔是什么？\n答：他是 G/CLUBS 的发言人。\n问：据您的理解，担任发言人是什么意思？\n答：代表公司对外发声。\n问：代表谁？\n答：代表公司。\n问：公司指的是？\n答：G/CLUBS。\n问：据您所知，郭文贵担任 G/CLUBS 发言人一职获得了多少报酬？\n答：他没有报酬。\n芬克尔律师：法官阁下，我可以走上前去吗？\n法庭：可以。\n芬克尔律师：向证人递交一个文件夹。\n问：雷耶斯女士，请您看一下那个文件夹并翻阅一下。\n芬克尔律师：法官阁下，我谨向法庭说明，该文件夹包含以下已标记以供确认的检方证物：GX 1850、GX 1850A；以及 GX GC 系列中的以下证物：GX GC3、27、28、33、37、38、40、43、54、59、60、93、95；121、122、197、126、136、150A、150、157、158、160、168、175、178、184、187、189、198；209、213、218、220、221、222、227、228、233、242、254、276、286、292、293、299；300、307、309、317、318、332、334，\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 340、341、346、363、365、372、376、377、379、380、382、387、\n2 389、392、393；483、484、485、486、487、422、423、424、405、\n3 406、409、415、416、418、419、422、427、428、431、432、433、\n4 436、438、441、443、444、450、452、453、454、455、467、470、\n5 476、480、484、486、487、494、495、497；504、541、517、518、\n6 520、521、522、525、526、527、528、530-534、536-538、540、544、\n7 547、549、553、553A 以及 550。\n8 由 FINKEL 先生（Mr. Finkel）提问：\n9 问：Reyes 女士（Ms. Reyes），请你翻阅一下那个活页夹。\n10 答：好的。\n11 问：你此前是否审阅过该活页夹中的内容？\n12 答：是的。\n13 问：活页夹正面有签名吗？\n14 答：有。\n15 问：是谁的签名？\n16 答：我的。\n17 问：从总体上讲，那个活页夹里都是些什么文件？\n18\n19 答：我发送或收到的电子邮件、贷款文件。\n20 问：来自哪个实体？\n21 答：G/CLUBS。\n22 FINKEL 先生：政府方提请采纳我此前提到过的那些证据，\n23 希望不必再重新宣读一遍，\n24 除非您希望我这么做。\n25 （律师协商）\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区法庭速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 KAMARAJU 先生（Mr. Kamaraju）：无异议，我们也不要求\n2 再次宣读。\n3 法庭：我没听清。你说无异议，还有？\n4 KAMARAJU 先生：我们也不要求将所有\n5 证据都重新宣读一遍。\n6 法庭：好的。行。那么它们全部\n7 获准采纳。\n8 FINKEL 先生：谢谢法官阁下。\n9 （政府方证据 1850、1850A 获准采信\n10 入证）\n11 （政府方证据 GC3、GC27、GC28、GC33、GC37、\n12 GC38、GC40、GC43、GC54、GC59、GC60、GC93、GC95 获准采信\n13 入证）\n14 （政府方证据 GC121、GC122、GC197、GC126、\n15 GC136、GC150A、GC150、GC157、GC158、GC160、GC168、GC175、GC178、\n16 GC184、GC187、GC189、GC198 获准采信入证）\n17 （政府方证据 GC209、GC213、GC218、GC220、\n18 GC221、GC222、GC227、GC228、GC233、GC242、GC254、GC276、GC286、\n19 GC292、GC293、GC299 获准采信入证）\n20 （政府方证据 GC300、GC307、GC309、GC317、\n21 GC318、GC332、GC334、GC340、GC341、GC346、GC363、GC365、GC372、\n22 GC376、GC377、GC379、GC380、GC382、GC387、GC389、GC392、GC393\n23 获准采信入证）\n24 （政府方证据 GC483、GC484、GC485、GC486、\n25 GC487、GC422、GC423、GC424、GC405、GC406、GC409、GC415、GC416、\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 GC418、GC419、GC422、GC427、GC428、GC431、GC432、GC433、GC436、\n2 GC438、GC441、GC443、GC444、GC450、GC452、GC453、GC454、GC455、\n3 GC467、GC470、GC476、GC480、GC484、GC486、GC487、GC494、GC495、\n4 GC497 获准采信入证）\n5 （政府方证据 GC504、GC541、GC517、GC518、\n6 GC520、GC521、GC522、GC525、GC526、GC527、GC528、GC530-534、\n7 GC536-538、GC540、GC544、GC547、GC549、GC553、GC553A 以及 GC550\n8 获准采信入证）\n9 由 FINKEL 先生提问：\n10 问：Guo 先生（郭文贵）与 G/CLUBS 签有合同吗？\n11 答：是的。\n12 FINKEL 先生：好的。请展示已采信入证的\n13 政府方证据 541。即证据项 GX GC541。\n14 问：Reyes 女士，这是什么文件？\n15 答：这是 G/CLUBS 与 Guo 先生之间的一份协议。\n16 问：好的。上面写着“由 Guo Wengui（郭文贵）订立及相互之间订立”。你理解\n17 指的是谁？\n18 答：Guo 先生。\n19 FINKEL 先生：请把画面缩小。\n20 问：你看到底部 (b) 项下面写着由公司有因解除吗？\n21\n22 答：看到了。\n23 FINKEL 先生：Loftus 女士（Ms. Loftus），请把那部分放大。\n24 问：Reyes 女士，当你担任 G/CLUBS 的首席执行官时，你是否\n25 认为自己可以解雇作为 G/CLUBS 代言人的\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 Guo？\n2 KAMARAJU 先生：反对。要求证人得出法律\n3 结论。\n4 法庭：反对无效。你可以陈述你当时\n5 是否认为自己可以解雇他。\n6 答：我觉得我无法解雇他。\n7 FINKEL 先生：你可以把画面缩小。请翻到下一\n8 页。\n9 Loftus 女士，你能把第 3 段放大吗？\n10 问：这里写着“对价 - 5 级会员资格”。据你理解，Guo 因担任\n11 G/CLUBS 的代言人获得了什么（如有）？\n12\n13 答：他有权获得一份会员资格。\n14 问：据你所知，除了 5 级会员资格之外，\n15 他还获得了其他东西吗？\n16 答：据我所知没有。\n17 问：这份合同是谁谈判的？\n18 答：我不知道。\n19 问：是谁决定让 Guo 担任代言人的？\n20 答：我不知道。\n21 问：你有没有就为什么由 Guo 担任\n22 代言人提出过任何疑问？\n23 答：没有。我入职时他已经在那里了。\n24 问：当你入职时，你有没有就为什么由\n25 Guo 担任代言人提出过任何疑问？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 答：没有。\n2 问：你有没有就这份咨询协议提出过任何疑问？\n3 答：没有。\n4 FINKEL 先生：Loftus 女士，你能把画面缩小并\n5 翻到第 7 页吗？\n6 好的。撤下该展示。\n7 问：Reyes 女士，你在 G/CLUBS 期间，\n8 G/CLUBS 通过哪些方式（如有）进行自我推广？\n9 答：代言人是 Guo 先生，另外通过口口相传，\n10 农场——农场，他们会联系志同道合的人。\n11 问：据你当时所知，Guo 作为代言人是如何推广 G/CLUBS 的？\n12\n13 答：通过他的视频。\n14 问：你看了他的视频吗？\n15 答：没有。\n16 问：G/CLUBS 有多少会员？\n17 答：看情况。人数一直在增加，但在我\n18 辞职时，大约有 8,000 人。\n19 问：你提到 G/CLUBS 进行推广的另一种方式是\n20 口口相传。你说是通过农场吗？\n21 答：是的。\n22 问：农场是什么？\n23 答：我不知道确切该怎么描述，但它是一群\n24 分布在不同地方的志同道合的人。\n25 问：是谁向你解释农场的？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 答：并没有针对农场是什么做出解释。只是\n2 他们——他们提到了农场。\n3 问：你有没有向 Yvette 询问过农场是如何参与到\n4 G/CLUBS 的推广中的？\n5 答：据我回忆没有。\n6 问：你有没有向 He 先生询问过农场是如何参与到\n7 G/CLUBS 的推广中的？\n8 答：据我回忆没有。\n9 问：据你所知（如果你知道的话），农场是如何\n10 参与推广 G/CLUBS 的？\n11 答：我不知道。\n12 问：你是农场的成员吗？\n13 答：不是。\n14 问：据你了解，这 8,000 名左右的 G/CLUBS\n15 会员都分布在哪里？\n16 答：他们分布在世界各地。\n17 问：据你了解，他们讲什么\n18 语言？\n19 KAMARAJU 先生：所有人吗？\n20 FINKEL 先生：是的。\n21 问：总的来说，据你了解，这 8,000 名 G/CLUBS 会员讲什么\n22 语言？\n23 答：大多数讲普通话。\n24 问：当你担任 G/CLUBS 的首席执行官时，你是否认为自己\n25 熟悉你之前提到的 G/CLUBS 会员那种志同道合的\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6H1GUO5 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 理念？\n2 答：问我是否熟悉？\n3 问：是的。\n4 答：不熟悉。\n5 问：在这大约 8,000 名 G/CLUBS 会员中，你大约与其中的多少人\n6 交谈过？\n7 答：大概七个人左右，粗略来说。\n8 （续接下页）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 由 FINKEL 先生提问：\n2 问：你提到 Guo 是 G/Club 的代言人，\n3 G/Club 的网站上是否有关于 Guo 的免责声明？\n4 答：是的，有。\n5 问：从总体上讲，那份免责声明说了什么？\n6 答：确切的字句不太确定，但大意是 G/Club 与\n7 Guo 先生所发表的言论无关。\n8 问：该免责声明随着时间推移发生过变化吗？\n9 答：是的。\n10 问：它是什么时候变化的？\n11 答：是在我们收到传票之后变化的。\n12 问：收到传票的“我们”是指谁，“我们”是谁？\n13 答：G/Clubs。\n14 问：传票是从谁那里收到的？\n15 答：政府方。\n16 问：如果 Guo 先生是 G/Club 的代言人，为什么网站上会有\n17 一份免责声明称不要将他的言论与\n18 G/Club 联系在一起？\n19 答：我不确定。它就放在那里。据我回忆，\n20 我入职时它就在那里了。\n21 问：Reyes 女士，请你大声且\n22 清晰地说话，以便大家都能听清。\n23 Reyes 女士，你有没有向 Yvette 询问过\n24 关于该免责声明的问题？\n25 答：据我回忆没有。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 问：你有没有向 He 先生询问过关于该免责声明的问题？\n2 答：据我回忆没有。\n3 问：G/Club 会员会收到会员卡吗？\n4 答：实体卡的话，没有。\n5 问：如果有什么凭证的话，他们会收到什么来证明其\n6 G/Club 会员资格？\n7 答：我记得当时发送了一封带有卡片图片的\n8 电子邮件。\n9 问：你提到了 G/Clubs 的价格，有一笔入会费，\n10 金额从 10,000 到 50,000 不等；是这样吗？\n11\n12 答：是的。\n13 问：你为什么定下那些价格？\n14 答：那些价格不是我定的。\n15 问：那是谁定的？\n16 答：我不知道。\n17 问：你有没有向 Yvette 询问过为什么价格是定成那样的？\n18\n19 答：没有，我没问过。\n20 问：那 He 先生呢？\n21 答：没有，我没问过。\n22 问：你之前提到过 G/Clubs 会员没有拿到股票，对吗？\n23\n24 答：对。\n25 问：G/Club 会员有权享受哪些福利（如有）？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1\n2 答：不同时期他们有权享受不同的福利。\n3 我可以列举出来吗？\n4 问：请列举一下。\n5 答：他们根据自己的等级在 G Fashion 享有折扣。\n6 曾经有一段时间，他们能够向 GTV 上传两小时的\n7 内容。他们可以听到由 Guo 先生演唱或创作的\n8 歌曲。他们享有全天候 24 小时客户服务。他们可以\n9 参加 G talks 活动和抽奖活动。\n10 问：还有别的吗？\n11 答：有的。我们有酒店、酒店折扣、健身房。曾有\n12 登船包租服务。我们组织过 FAO Schwarz（施瓦茨玩具旗舰店）的私人导览游。\n13 他们会收到圣诞礼物。我们在一家米其林星级餐厅\n14 举办过特色晚宴。我们安排过两次酒店入住，一次在斐济，\n15 一次在澳大利亚。我们在一级方程式赛车有折扣。这些\n16 是我能回忆起来的。\n17 问：G Fashion 折扣是如何运作的？\n18 答：根据他们的等级，他们会获得固定的折扣。\n19 如果是一级，购买其时尚商品享有 10% 的折扣。\n20\n21 问：我再次请求你直接对着麦克风说话，以便大家\n22 都能听清。\n23 如果会员想享受 G Fashion 的\n24 折扣，他们该怎么做？流程是什么？\n25 答：这是通过 G Fashion 平台完成的。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 问：你能解释一下具体怎么操作吗？\n2 答：我不太确切知道该怎么操作。\n3 法庭：你说他们可以听到由 Guo 先生演唱\n4 或创作的歌曲，他们如何获取这些歌曲？\n5\n6 证人：在网站上。在网站上\n7 有一个写着 G music 的链接，他们可以在那里看到这些歌曲。\n8\n9 法庭：请继续。\n10 问：是谁决定 G/Club 会员应当因其会员身份\n11 获得 G Fashion 折扣的？\n12 答：我不知道。\n13 问：你有没有问过任何人为什么这是会员福利？\n14 答：没有，我没问过。\n15 问：你提到过会员可以拥有——你是否说过\n16 在 GTV 上拥有流媒体直播；是这样吗？\n17 答：是的。\n18 问：是谁决定将其作为会员福利的？\n19 答：我不知道。\n20 问：你有没有问过任何人原因？\n21 答：没有。\n22 问：你提到有一份圣诞礼物，那份圣诞礼物\n23 是什么？\n24 答：是一个礼盒，里面包括一个带有品牌标志的咖啡杯、波多黎各\n25 咖啡和饼干。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 主询问\n1 问：那个寄送了吗？\n2 答：寄了。\n3 问：是寄给每位会员了吗？\n4 答：寄给那些登记了的会员。\n5 问：您提到了酒店折扣；对吗？\n6 答：对。\n7 问：G/Clubs（G俱乐部）会员有权享受折扣的\n8 酒店在哪里？\n9 答：酒店在 Puerto Rico（波多黎各）。\n10 问：他们在波多黎各可以享受折扣的酒店有\n11 几家？\n12 答：三家。\n13 问：G/Clubs 会员在波多黎各的那三家酒店可以享受的\n14 折扣是多少？\n15 答：如果我没记错的话，是百分之十的折扣。\n16 问：那是怎么运作的？\n17 G/Clubs 会员在波多黎各的那三家酒店获得那百分之十折扣的\n18 流程是怎样的？\n19\n20 答：视情况而定，他们会收到一个链接或一个代码，然后他们\n21 就可以预订住宿。\n22 问：是通过 G/Clubs 预订的吗？\n23 答：不是。\n24 问：是通过谁预订的？\n25 答：会员自己。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区法庭速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 主询问\n1 问：会员是在哪里预订？\n2 答：通过酒店的网站。\n3 问：G/Club 为其会员从那三家酒店获取该福利\n4 花了多少钱？\n5 答：没花我们的钱。\n6 问：有多少会员使用了波多黎各那三家酒店的百分之十\n7 折扣？\n8 答：我不知道。\n9 问：您提到有一顿米其林星级餐厅的晚餐；\n10 是这样吗？\n11 答：是的。\n12 问：Reyes 女士，您能否向陪审团成员描述一下\n13 该项福利的性质？\n14 答：那是一顿米其林餐厅的晚餐。我不记得\n15 在英国的那家叫什么名字了。是在中国农历新年期间。\n16 问：那只是一晚的晚餐还是多场晚餐？\n17 答：就那一晚的晚餐。\n18 问：这顿晚餐对 G/Club 会员是免费的吗？\n19 答：不是，他们得付钱。是一个折扣。\n20 问：折扣是多少？\n21 答：我不记得了。\n22 问：有多少会员使用了这项福利？\n23 答：我不知道。\n24 问：这顿晚餐花了多少钱？\n25 答：我不记得了。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 主询问\n1 问：您提到，您刚才是说了包租吗？\n2 答：有一次游艇包租。\n3 问：您说的游艇包租是什么意思？\n4 答：那是一项游艇服务，他们可以预订乘船出游。\n5 问：那项游艇服务设在哪里？\n6 答：在波多黎各。\n7 问：G/Clubs 会员可以获得的福利或折扣的\n8 性质是什么？\n9 答：如果我没记错的话，是一个百分比折扣，而且我\n10 记得还包含了像香槟之类的东西。我不确切记得\n11 具体百分比是多少。\n12 问：G/Club 为其会员获取这项福利\n13 花了多少钱？\n14 答：没花我们的钱。\n15 问：有多少 G/Club 会员使用了这项福利？\n16 答：我不知道。\n17 问：据您所知，有 G/Club 会员住在波多黎各\n18 吗？\n19 答：据我所知没有。\n20 问：您刚才提到了关于 Fiji（斐济）和 Australia（澳大利亚）的事情吗？\n21 答：是的。\n22 问：您能否向陪审团成员描述一下那项福利的\n23 性质？\n24 答：那是一组酒店住宿的预留日期区间，一个在斐济，\n25 一个在澳大利亚，他们可以获得折扣以及一些\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 主询问\n1 其他福利。\n2 问：您说的预留日期区间是什么意思？\n3 答：那是一组固定的日期。那是他们可以预订的\n4 固定日期。\n5 问：斐济和澳大利亚的酒店 G/Club 折扣\n6 有多少个可用日期？\n7 答：具体我不记得了。\n8 问：大约是多少，几个月还是几周？\n9 答：可能是几周。\n10 问：G/Club 为其会员获取这项福利\n11 花了多少钱？\n12 答：没花我们的钱。\n13 问：据您所知，如果有的话，有多少 G/Club 会员使用了\n14 这项预留区间的福利？\n15 答：我不知道。\n16 问：您提到了 Formula One（一级方程式）赛车？\n17 答：是的。\n18 问：这项福利的性质是什么？\n19 答：那是一个折扣，会员可以选择\n20 他们想在 Monaco（摩纳哥）站以及\n21 随后全年的比赛中在哪里观赛。\n22 问：与该福利相关的赛事有几场？\n23 答：抱歉。您是什么意思？\n24 问：是一场比赛还是不止一场比赛？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 主询问\n1 答：第一场是摩纳哥站，然后延伸到了\n2 全年。\n3 问：有多少场比赛，您知道吗？\n4 答：我不知道。\n5 问：据您所知，有多少 G/Club 会员使用了\n6 这项一级方程式赛车福利？\n7 答：我不知道。\n8 问：我记得您提到了，您提到了 FAO Schwarz 吗？\n9 答：是的。\n10 问：这项福利的性质是什么？\n11 答：我们为我们的会员包场封控了 FAO Schwarz 玩具店。\n12 他们可以参观这家玩具店。我们为他们提供了\n13 早餐。他们购买商品有折扣，那次活动持续了\n14 两天。\n15 问：持续了多——FAO Schwarz 位于哪里？\n16 答：New York（纽约）。\n17 问：在纽约哪里？\n18 答：我不确切知道具体地址。\n19 问：Manhattan（曼哈顿）？\n20 答：是的。\n21 问：那次活动您在场吗？\n22 答：在场。\n23 问：FAO Schwarz 闭店了多久？\n24 答：大概几个小时，大概一个小时。\n25 问：G/Clubs 为其会员获取这项福利\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 主询问\n1 花了多少钱？\n2 答：大概，场地预订费用大约是 13,000 美元。\n3 问：在您出席的那场 FAO Schwarz 活动中，有多少 G/Club 会员\n4 参加了？\n5 答：大概四五个。\n6 问：围绕 FAO Schwarz 活动，在纽约还安排了\n7 其他活动吗？\n8 答：FAO Schwarz 最初的想法是参观\n9 玩具店，随后为孩子们举办一个姜饼活动。\n10 那没有办成。\n11 问：是谁取消了给孩子们的姜饼活动？\n12 答：Yvette 要求取消的。\n13 问：我们刚才过了一遍的那些福利，每个会员级别\n14 都能享受吗？\n15 答：是的，除了 G Fashion（G时尚），那是对应各自级别的。\n16 问：所有其他福利，每个级别都能享受，不论他们是\n17 50,000 美元级别还是 10,000 美元级别？\n18 答：是的。\n19 问：有 G/Club 通讯简报吗？\n20 答：我们是通过他们的电子邮件来宣传各项福利的。\n21 问：Orbit 是什么？\n22 答：Orbit 是我们用于服务会员的客户服务公司。\n23 问：Orbit 是做什么的？\n24 答：他们通过系统接收会员的问题，然后\n25 他们会根据问题或诉求，把它们\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 主询问\n1 分配给不同的部门。\n2\n3 问：Orbit 设在哪里？\n4 答：客服专员分布在世界各地。\n5 问：Orbit 为会员预订行程吗？\n6 答：不，他们不做。\n7 问：Orbit 为会员预订酒店住宿吗？\n8 答：不，他们不做。\n9 问：Orbit 为会员租车吗？\n10 答：不租。\n11 问：Orbit 是一项礼宾管家服务吗？\n12 答：不是。\n13 问：G/Clubs 为其会员提供礼宾管家服务吗？\n14 答：是的。\n15 问：G/Clubs 为其会员提供什么样的礼宾管家\n16 服务？\n17 答：我们没提供。它只是被命名为礼宾管家服务。\n18 问：G/Clubs 有豪华跑车可供其会员\n19 使用吗？\n20 答：没有。\n21 问：G/Clubs 有住宅可供其会员居住吗？\n22 答：没有。\n23 问：据您所知，G/Club 曾经购买过豪宅吗？\n24 答：据我所知没有。\n25 问：您去过 675 Ramapo Boulevard 吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 主询问\n1 答：不好意思。\n2 问：您去过 675 Ramapo Boulevard 吗？\n3 答：我不知道那在哪里。\n4 问：您知道 Crocker mansion（克罗克豪宅）是什么吗？\n5 答：什么？抱歉。\n6 问：Crocker 豪宅？\n7 答：不知道。\n8 问：您知道 G/Clubs 曾经在 New Jersey（新泽西州）购买\n9 过房产吗？\n10 答：据我所知没有。\n11 问：您知道 G/Clubs 在美国任何地方购买过\n12 房产吗？\n13 答：据我所知没有。\n14 问：您知道 G/Clubs 在地球上任何地方购买过\n15 房产吗？\n16 答：据我所知没有。\n17 问：能否请展示已作为证据的政府方\n18 证据项 134。\n19 Reyes 女士，您能在屏幕上看到吗？\n20 答：能。\n21 问：您知道这是哪里吗？\n22 答：不，我不知道。\n23 问：据您所知，这是一处由 G/Clubs 拥有的房产吗？\n24 答：据我所知不是。\n25 问：可以撤下了。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 主询问\n1 Reyes 女士，您是否曾提议\n2 G/Club 应该为其会员提供一个俱乐部会所？\n3 答：提过。\n4 问：您向谁提议的？\n5 答：我们跟波多黎各的团队共同讨论过，\n6 在某个阶段为我们的会员设立一个俱乐部是有意义的。\n7 问：那您向任何人提过这个想法吗？\n8 答：曾经有一段时间有一座小岛待售，\n9 我确实向 Yvette 提议过，是的。\n10 问：那座岛位于哪里？\n11 答：在波多黎各。\n12 问：那座岛大约要花多少钱？\n13 答：我不确切知道，但当时是几百万，可能\n14 超过五百万。我不知道确切数字。\n15 问：是高于还是低于 1200 万？\n16 答：我不确切知道。我想是超过五百万。\n17 问：当您提议为会员购买这座岛时，\n18 Yvette 怎么说的，如果她说了的话？\n19 答：到头来，并不——好像出于它的价值考虑，购买\n20 一座岛并不划算。\n21 问：关于 G/Clubs 进行的采购花多少钱，由谁\n22 决定？\n23 答：具体指哪些采购？\n24 问：您能花钱、把 G/Clubs 的钱花在某些事情上吗？\n25 答：某些事情上可以。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 主询问\n1 问：您可以把 G/Club 的钱花在哪些事情上？\n2 答：比如如果我们和员工搞活动聚餐，我\n3 就会花那个钱，办公用品；比如，FAO Schwarz\n4 活动。\n5 问：Reyes 女士，多重会籍是谁？\n6 答：多重会籍是指会员能够购买\n7 一份以上的会籍。\n8 问：允许会员购买一份以上会籍的\n9 想法是谁提出的？\n10 答：这个要求是 Yvette 提出的。\n11 问：能否请展示已作为证据的政府方\n12 证据项 GC-126。请放大顶部，Loftus 女士。\n13 Reyes 女士，这份文件是关于什么的？\n14 答：这是 Yvette 发给 Jessica 和我本人的邮件，内容是\n15 关于修改会员协议以允许设立多重会员。\n16 问：您能读一下底部的邮件吗？上面写着，是来自 Jessica\n17 Mastrogiovanni，开头是“请修改”？\n18 答：请尽快修改会员协议，以允许\n19 会员购买一份以上的会籍。需要是不设限的。\n20 问：Yvette 对这封邮件的回应是什么？\n21 答：Jessica，关于这件事请来找我。\n22 问：Yvette 在这封邮件中使用了什么电子邮件地址？\n23 答：Officework 2020。\n24 问：Yvette 是否像您一样拥有 G/Clubs 域名的电子邮件？\n25 答：据我所知没有。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 主询问\n1 问：我们之前讨论过的那些福利，多重——\n2 撤回。\n3 如果会员愿意，他们可以购买\n4 多少份会籍？\n5 答：多份，我记得看到过至少十份。\n6 问：一个人购买十份会籍？\n7 答：是的。\n8 问：对个人可以购买的会员数量有任何\n9 限制吗？\n10 答：据我记忆没有。\n11 问：您问过 Yvette 为什么 G/Clubs 应该实行多重\n12 会籍选项吗？\n13 答：没有。\n14 问：您问过 Mr. He（何先生）为什么 G/Clubs 应该实行多重\n15 会籍选项吗？\n16 答：据我记忆没有。\n17 问：多重会籍如果有的话，能获得什么额外福利？\n18\n19 答：他们可以不止一次地参与抽奖，\n20 参加抽奖活动，而且当时宣传说他们\n21 可以参加贵宾活动以及享受礼宾管家服务。\n22 问：您说当时宣传说多重会员可以\n23 参加贵宾活动，有任何贵宾活动吗？\n24 答：我们没有举办过。\n25 问：对多重会员有任何礼宾管家服务吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 问：当时没有。\n2 问：你在 G/Clubs 期间的任何其他时间有吗？\n3 答：没有。\n4 问：会员会收到一份会员协议吗？\n5 答：注册时，他们注册时必须要有。在网上\n6 他们会看到他们的会员协议。\n7 问：他们被要求确认该协议吗？\n8 答：据我所知，他们必须勾选、点击\n9 一个方框。\n10 问：Loftus（洛夫特斯）女士，请调出已作为证据的\n11 政府证据（Government Exhibit）GC-28。最上面的\n12 这封电子邮件是谁发来的？\n13 答：这是 Ana（安娜）发给 Jessica（杰西卡）和我的电子邮件。\n14 问：随这封电子邮件附带的附件叫什么名称？\n15 答：G/Club 会员协议，红线标出多重会员资格。\n16 问：Loftus 女士，请缩小显示。\n17 这是对你之前提到的、我们之前讨论过的\n18 那封电子邮件的回复。请放大\n19 底部的电子邮件。\n20 在这封电子邮件的抄送栏上写着 officework\n21 2020@protonmail.com，你看到了吗，Reyes（雷耶斯）女士？\n22 答：看到了。\n23 问：那是谁的电子邮件？\n24 答：Yvette（王雁平/伊薇特）的。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（纽约南区法庭速记公司）\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 问：你有问过 Yvette 为什么用那个电子邮件地址 Officework2020@proton mail.com\n2 处理 G/Club 的业务吗？\n3 答：没有，我没问过。\n4 问：Loftus 女士，我们转到下一页。\n5 这就是 Ana Izquierdo（安娜·伊斯基耶多）\n6 修改过的会员协议吗？\n7 答：能稍微向下滚动一点吗？是的。\n8 问：Loftus 女士，能否翻到第四页第 12B 款。请稍微往下\n9 翻一点。能放大那部分吗？\n10 Reyes 女士，你能朗读以“Member may”（会员可以）开头的\n11 下划线文本吗？\n12 答：“会员可以为其本人购买一份以上的 G/Clubs 会员资格，\n13 并将按每份会员资格分配一个会员编号。但是，\n14 拥有多份会员资格的会员只能使用一份会员资格\n15 享受 G/Club 关联公司的特惠价格，\n16 且不得合并上述会员资格。”\n17 问：Ana Izquierdo 也向你汇报过这点吗？\n18 答：她会收到 Yvette 的指示，是的。\n19 问：Loftus 女士，你可以缩小显示了。\n20 如果可以的话翻到第 16 款。请放大\n21 第 16 款。请读一下那一款好吗？\n22 答：“禁止贬损。会员及每位直系亲属\n23 受益人特此同意不贬损 G/Clubs、其\n24 母公司或关联公司，亦不贬损其各自的任何\n25 所有者、合伙人、高级职员、董事、雇员、代理人或\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 其他代表、主要主持人或发言人，包括为\n2 避免疑义包含的 Guo Wengui（郭文贵）先生。就本\n3 协议而言，贬损系指就前述一者或多者向第三方\n4 发表任何非法的、虚假的、具有误导性的、诽谤性的、\n5 骚扰性的或侮辱性的言论。\n6 本协议中的任何内容均不得禁止或限制会员或\n7 直系亲属受益人发表对 G/Clubs 或其提供的任何商品\n8 或服务的诚实评价或履约评估的能力。”\n9 问：据你的理解（若有的话），为什么 G/Clubs\n10 会员协议如其正文所述，禁止发表关于郭的\n11 贬损言论？\n12 答：我不了解。\n13 问：你有没有问过任何人为什么会员协议中包含\n14 这一款？\n15 答：没有，我没问过。\n16 问：可以撤下那个了。请稍等片刻。\n17 G/Clubs 关于退款请求的政策\n18 是怎样的（若有的话）？\n19 答：政策随时间发生了变化。最初是\n20 成为会员后三天内取消，后来\n21 延长到了 12 天或 14 天。我不太确定具体是几天。\n22 问：最初是三天政策是什么意思？\n23 答：意思是会员获得会员资格后，有三天\n24 时间申请取消。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 问：然后延长到了 14 天，你是说 14 天还是 12 天？\n2 答：12 天或 14 天。\n3 问：为什么延长到了 12 天或 14 天？\n4 答：我被告知是因为类似于欧洲某项法律\n5 要求该期限的规定。\n6 问：你在 G/Clubs 开始工作时，退款政策\n7 严格吗？\n8 答：是的。\n9 问：发放的退款多吗？\n10 答：不多。\n11 问：退款情况发生改变了吗，也就是退款\n12 政策变得不那么严格的时候？\n13 答：是的。\n14 问：发生了什么变化导致退款政策变得不那么严格？\n15 答：在 G/Clubs 收到传票（subpoena）后，退款情况变了。\n16 问：谁发来的传票？\n17 答：政府。\n18 问：Reyes 女士，我想你提到过的福利之一是——\n19 让我退回一步。\n20 什么是 G talk？\n21 答：G talks，最初打算办成线下\n22 活动。由于新冠疫情（Covid），我们不得不转为线上虚拟形式，所以它是一场\n23 我们会讨论不同话题的线上活动。我们为\n24 我们的会员举办了抽奖活动。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 问：然后发生了什么？你在 G/Club 期间一共举办了多少次 G talks？\n2 答：我们举办了两次。\n3 问：分别是在什么时候？\n4 答：第一次是在 2021年2月。第二次是在\n5 2022年3月。\n6 问：你能描述一下 G Talks 活动上都有什么内容吗？\n7 答：视情况而定。第一次是，我们谈论了 G/Clubs。我们\n8 展示了 G Fashion 系列，并且我们进行了\n9 G Fashion 奖品的抽奖。还有车辆奖品以及\n10 现金价值的奖品。第二次更多是侧重于“同心互爱”（Community Through Love），\n11 所以我们播放了不同地点的不同视频，并且我们\n12 也进行了抽奖。\n13 问：G Talks 活动是在哪里举行的？\n14 答：第一次是线上的，所以不同的演讲者\n15 位于不同的地点。第二次，主\n16 演播室是在纽约、纽约办事处。\n17 问：谁可以观看或者别人怎么观看 G Talks\n18 活动？\n19 答：据我所知是提供了一个\n20 链接。\n21 问：所以是在线观看？\n22 答：是的。\n23 问：是只允许会员观看 G Talk 吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 答：第一次 G Talk 仅限会员。第二次 G talk 对\n2 公众开放。\n3 问：Miles Guo（郭文贵/迈尔斯·郭）在 G Talk 活动中担任什么角色（若有的话）？\n4 答：他在 G Talks 上讲了话。\n5 问：我们可以看一下作为 GXCT-171 采纳为证据的文件。\n6 Reyes 女士，这份文件是什么？\n7 答：看起来像是其中一场 G Talks 的日程表。\n8 问：我们看一下 GXCT-170。这是什么？\n9 答：G Talk 日程表的续页。\n10 问：上面写着由主持人进行，那个人是你吗？\n11 答：是的。\n12 问：你在欢迎致辞中说了什么？\n13 答：我不记得具体内容了。\n14 问：我们看一下 GXCT-172。Loftus 女士，\n15 请放大顶部。\n16 你能读一下顶部写的内容吗？\n17 答：“禁用词/概念清单”（List of do not words/ideas）。\n18 问：这份文件是什么？\n19 答：这是一份提供给郭先生的\n20 禁说词汇文件。\n21 问：为什么要把一份禁说词汇文件提供给郭？\n22 答：我不知道。\n23 问：这份文件的目的是什么？\n24 答：作为一份禁说词汇清单。\n25 问：你知道郭到底有没有说这些词吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 答：我不知道。\n2 问：为什么不知道？\n3 答：我不会普通话。\n4 问：Loftus 女士，请向下滚动。停在那儿。\n5 你看到顶部写着“growth and growth projections”（增长和增长预测）的地方了吗？\n6 答：看到了。\n7 问：你知道为什么“增长和增长预测”属于郭\n8 不该说的词吗？\n9 KAMARAJU（卡马拉朱）先生：反对形式，法官大人。\n10 法庭：反对无效。你可以回答。\n11 答：我不知道。\n12 问：“Participation, participate, business or profits”（参与、参加、业务或利润）。你知道\n13 为什么这些是郭不该说的词吗？\n14 答：我不知道。\n15 问：GTV。你知道为什么那是郭不该说的\n16 词吗？\n17 答：我不知道。\n18 问：Saraca（萨拉卡）呢，你知道为什么那是郭\n19 不该说的词吗？\n20 答：我不知道。\n21 问：你知道 Saraca 是什么吗？\n22 答：不知道。\n23 问：voice of Guo（文贵之声）、Voice of Good 呢。你知道那\n24 是什么吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 答：不知道。\n2 问：Rule of Law Foundation（法治基金）、Rule of Law Society（法治社会）。你知道\n3 为什么郭不该说那些词吗？\n4 答：我不知道。\n5 问：这份清单是用于 G Talk 第一次还是 G Talk 第二次？\n6 答：据我所忆是 G Talk 第一次。\n7 问：G Talk 第一次大约是在什么日期？\n8 答：2021年2月。\n9 问：然后往下几行写着 Yvette Wang（王雁平）、Yvette。\n10 你知道为什么郭不该提及 Yvette 吗？\n11 答：我不知道。\n12 问：Loftus 女士，我们可以向下滚动吗。上面写着 Sara（萨拉），Sara 下方\n13 写着 Mulan（木兰）。你知道为什么郭不该\n14 提及 Mulan 吗？\n15 答：我不知道。\n16 问：你知道 Mulan 是谁吗？\n17 答：我见过迪士尼角色的木兰图像。\n18 我不知道她是谁。\n19 问：据你的理解，Mulan 在与 G/Club 相关的方面\n20 做了什么？\n21 KAMARAJU 先生：反对前提欠缺，法官大人。\n22 法庭：她在与 G/Clubs 相关的方面\n23 做了什么事吗。\n24 问：我撤回该提问。据你的理解，Mulan\n25 是谁？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 答：我不知道她是谁。\n2 问：Mulan 在与 G/Club 相关的方面做过什么事吗？\n3 KAMARAJU 先生：同上反对，法官大人。\n4 法庭：你可以回答。\n5 答：她参与了 G Talks 的筹委会，我就是在那里\n6 看到那张图像的。\n7 问：你知道什么是铁血组（iron blooded group）吗？\n8 答：请再说一遍。\n9 问：铁血组，你知道那是什么吗？\n10 答：不知道。\n11 问：Reyes 女士，在 Mulan 下方写着 SEC（美国证券交易委员会）、investigation（调查）和\n12 litigations（诉讼），你知道为什么郭不该说那些\n13 词吗？\n14 答：我不知道。\n15 问：Golden Spring（金泉）呢，你知道为什么郭\n16 不该说 Golden Spring 吗？\n17 答：我不知道。\n18 问：你知道 Golden Spring 是什么吗？\n19 答：不知道。\n20 问：在 Golden Spring 下方写着监管机构、DOJ（美国司法部）、Attorney General（司法部长/总检察长）、\n21 检察官、U.S. government（美国政府）。你知道为什么郭\n22 不该就那些词发表言论吗？\n23 答：我不知道。\n24 问：向下滚动。在 U.S. government 下方写着 G Coin（G币）、G\n25 Dollar（G美元）、H Coin（喜币）、H Dollar（喜美元）。你知道为什么郭不该\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 就 G Coin、G Dollar、H Coin 和 H Dollar 发表任何言论吗？\n2 答：我不知道。\n3 问：你知道 G Coin 和 G dollar 是什么吗？\n4 答：不知道。\n5 问：你知道 H Coin 和 H Dollar 是什么吗？\n6 答：知道。\n7 问：据你理解，H Coin 和\n8 H Dollar 那些东西是什么？\n9 答：那些是……之间的支付方式——据我的理解，\n10 H Dollar 类似于一对一固定，而 H Coin 则是浮动的。\n11 问：可以撤下那个了。请向证人\n12 出示 GC-511。\n13 这是一张什么照片？\n14 答：郭先生和我的合影。\n15 FINKEL（芬克尔）先生：政府方提请采纳 GC-511。\n16 KAMARAJU 先生：无异议。\n17 法庭：予以采纳。\n18 （政府证据 GC-511 已被采纳为证据）\n19 由 FINKEL 先生继续询问：\n20 问：这张照片是在哪里拍的？\n21 答：在纽约办事处。\n22 问：这个纽约办事处位于哪里？\n23 答：我不知道确切地址。如果我看地图，\n24 曼哈顿在正面，所以它在左侧。如果\n25 中央公园在中心，它就在左边。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 问：在中央公园（Central Park）的左侧？\n2 答：是的。\n3 问：Reyes（雷耶斯）女士，为什么要拍这张照片？请您\n4 把麦克风朝向自己。\n5 答：您可以重复一下问题吗。\n6 问：拍这张照片是什么场合？\n7 答：这是在第二场 G Talks 活动期间拍摄的。\n8 问：谁选了您的服装？\n9 答：郭先生（Mr. Guo）。\n10 问：您穿的那套服装是由什么品牌制作的？\n11 答：G Fashion。\n12 问：G Talks 活动结束后，您保留了那套 G Fashion 服装吗？\n13 答：他们提供了，但我最终没有保留。\n14 问：您最终为什么没有保留？\n15 答：因为他们要求我们付钱。\n16 问：要求谁付钱？\n17 答：G/Clubs。\n18 问：对于您在 G Talk 活动期间穿的\n19 那套服装，G/Clubs 收费多少？\n20 答：我不记得那件衣服的具体金额了。\n21 问：大约多少？\n22 答：如果让我猜的话，大概一千左右。\n23 KAMARAJU 先生：反对猜测，法官阁下。\n24 法庭：不要猜。如果不知道，就说\n25 不知道。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 问：可以撤下了。Reyes 女士，您提到了\n2 与 G Talk 相关的抽奖活动。您能\n3 解释一下您对该抽奖活动的理解吗？\n4 答：抽奖活动是，我们设有不同的奖品，注册\n5 参加该活动的会员会被选为\n6 不同奖品的幸运得主。\n7 问：如果会员被选中，他们可以赢取\n8 哪些种类的奖品？\n9 答：我们有车辆、G Fashion 物品、不同的 G Fashion 物品\n10 和等值现金。\n11 问：您知道获奖者是如何选出的吗，具体是怎样\n12 运作的？\n13 答：有一家抽奖公司，他们负责\n14 选出不同的获奖者。\n15 问：请展示我认为已作为证物 GX-121\n16 采纳的内容。您知道这个人是谁吗？\n17 答：Yong 先生（Mr. Yong）。\n18 问：Yong 先生曾在抽奖中中奖吗？\n19 答：是的。\n20 问：他赢了什么？\n21 答：一辆兰博基尼（Lamborghini）。\n22 问：您曾见过他，也就是 Yong 先生吗？\n23 答：当面见过？\n24 问：是的。\n25 答：见过。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 问：请展示已作为政府证物\n2 GXGC-547 采纳的内容。Loftus 女士，请放大那一份。\n3 您能读一下那条信息吗？\n4 答：这三位会员想去访问你们的办公室。\n5 最好明天从纽约市出发，周日\n6 飞回。能谈这事时请告诉我。谢谢。\n7 问：那条信息是发给谁的？\n8 答：是发给——我看不出来，但我记得那条信息\n9 是发给我的。\n10 问：发给您的？\n11 答：是的。\n12 问：谁发的？\n13 答：Yvette 发的。\n14 问：根据您的理解，Yvette 所说的这\n15 三位会员想去访问你们的办公室是什么意思？\n16 答：曾有一次，有三位会员来到我们波多黎各\n17 办公室参观办公室。\n18 问：他们的名字是什么？\n19 答：Alex Chi、Yong 先生，以及 Sharon 或 Shannon。\n20 问：Young 先生，就是我们刚才看到戴\n21 苹果耳机（air pods）的那个人的图像？\n22 答：是的。\n23 问：Loftus 女士，您能缩小并向下滚动吗。您能\n24 放大第二行吗。您能读一下吗？\n25 答：Yong Zhang 先生。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 问：您理解这是谁？\n2 答：Yong 先生。\n3 问：戴苹果耳机照片里的那个人？\n4 答：是的。\n5 问：Yong 先生去过波多黎各办公室吗？\n6 答：去过。\n7 问：是在 2022 年夏天这段时间前后吗？\n8 答：据我所能记起，是的。\n9 问：根据您的理解，Yong 先生访问\n10 波多黎各办公室的原因是什么？\n11 答：他们是去访问波多黎各办公室、与团队见面、\n12 了解不同的部门，并讨论\n13 G/Clubs。\n14 问：您在波多黎各和 Yong 先生待了多长时间？\n15 答：我记不清具体时间了。\n16 问：Yvette 有没有让您也带他出去吃晚餐，\n17 也就是 Yong 先生？\n18 答：我不记得她具体跟我说过要带他们\n19 出去吃晚餐，但说过要热情好客并接待他们，所以我们照做了。\n20 问：您和 Yong 先生谈了什么？\n21 答：我记不清具体内容了。\n22 问：您谈到消灭中国共产党（Chinese Communist Party）了吗？\n23 答：没有。\n24 问：您谈到反对中国共产党的\n25 民主运动了吗？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 答：没有。\n2 问：如果有的话，您理解 Yong 先生是做什么\n3 工作的？\n4 答：据我了解他是一名律师。\n5 问：请把那个撤下。\n6 除了 Yong 先生赢取的兰博基尼之外，还有\n7 其他赢取汽车的会员吗？\n8 答：还有其他赢取汽车的会员，但据我\n9 所能记起，他们最终都选择了等值现金。\n10 问：您说的他们最终选择了等值现金\n11 是什么意思？\n12 答：他们没有要实物汽车，而是选择了汽车的\n13 价值。\n14 问：据您所知，是否向其中一些会员\n15 进行了付款？\n16 答：据我所知，是的。\n17 问：所有选择等值现金的会员都接受了\n18 电汇吗？\n19 答：没有，有不同的付款方式。有电汇。\n20 后来有一次我相信有支票，还有——以\n21 其会员资格积分抵扣的形式。\n22 问：您说的积分抵扣形式是什么意思？\n23 答：奖品的价值会被抵扣到他们的年费\n24 或任何会员费中，具体取决于他们的选择。\n25 问：是否有部分中奖者选择了该选项，即用于\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 G/Club 会员资格的积分抵扣？\n2 答：我确实记得，是的，有一位。\n3 问：您熟悉 Notices@Gmail.com 这个电子邮件地址吗？\n4 答：是的。\n5 问：谁使用该电子邮件地址？\n6 答：法务部。\n7 问：用于什么目的？\n8 答：法律事务、注销、会员投诉。\n9 问：您说的注销是什么意思？\n10 答：当会员申请注销时，会\n11 分配给法务部门进行审查。\n12 问：请调出我认为已作为证物 GXW-17 采纳的内容。\n13 Reyes 女士，您能在屏幕上看到吗？\n14 答：可以。\n15 问：这是什么？\n16 答：是 G/Clubs 网站。\n17 问：Loftus 女士，请向下滚动，再向下滚动\n18 一点。\n19 在右侧 Experiences that Enrich（丰富体验）下方，您能\n20 读一下它下方的文字吗，谢谢？\n21 答：我们的礼宾团队精心打造个性化的专属体验，\n22 让您独家畅享全球最卓越的\n23 目的地、产品和服务。\n24 FINKEL 先生：法官阁下，出于审慎起见，\n25 政府方提出提交 GXW-17。我相信已采纳，但若未采纳，\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 政府方提出提交。\n2 KAMARAJU 先生：无异议。\n3 法庭：予以采纳。\n4 （政府方证物 GXW-17 获准采纳为证据）\n5 由 FINKEL 先生继续询问：\n6 问：Reyes 女士，G/Clubs 是否拥有为其会员精心打造\n7 个性化专属体验的礼宾团队？\n8 答：不，我们没有。\n9 问：G/Clubs 网站上写的内容属实吗？\n10 答：不，我们没有提供。\n11 FINKEL 先生：政府方还提出提交 GXW-16 和 GXW-19。\n12 KAMARAJU 先生：法官阁下，无异议。\n13 法庭：予以采纳。\n14 （政府方证物 GXW-16 及 GXW-19 获准\n15 采纳为证据）\n16 由 FINKEL 先生继续询问：\n17 问：Loftus 女士，请调出 GXW-16。这是什么？\n18 答：G/Club 网站。\n19 问：您可以向下滚动一点吗。顺便问一下，谁挑选了\n20 这些图片？\n21 答：营销机构和我们的营销团队。\n22 问：这里写着 Where Will your Curiosity Take you（好奇心将带您去往何方）。您能\n23 读一下它下方的内容吗？\n24 答：G/Clubs 会员获赋能打造专属的独一无二\n25 体验，无论是在西班牙北部葡萄园上空的\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 热气球之旅、塞纳河（Seine river）畔的浪漫晚餐，\n2 还是私人专属向导野生动物之旅。唯一的限制是\n3 您的想象力。\n4 问：Reyes 女士，G/Clubs 是否曾向其会员提供过热气球\n5 之旅？\n6 答：当时没有，没有。\n7 问：是否曾向其会员提供过塞纳河畔的\n8 浪漫晚餐？\n9 答：当时没有，没有。\n10 问：或是私人专属向导野生动物之旅？\n11 答：当时没有，没有。\n12 问：关于 G/Clubs 向其会员提供这些服务的该信息\n13 属实吗？\n14 答：我们当时并未提供，不属实。\n15 问：请向下滚动。请继续向下滚动。\n16 在下方直升机旁，写着 Be Inquisitive\n17 Live inspired（保持探索 启迪生活）。我读得对吗？\n18 答：对。\n19 问：您能读一下它下方的文字吗？\n20 答：您拥有完整专业团队的支持，该团队\n21 不仅为您精心打造带来愉悦的独特体验，\n22 还与您通力合作，实现您愿望清单（bucket list）上的\n23 那些项目。\n24 问：是否有完整的专业团队为 G/Club 会员精心打造\n25 独特体验？\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 答：当时没有。\n2 问：在您任职于 G/Clubs 期间的任何时候曾有过吗？\n3 答：我们当时在推进这方面工作，但尚未落实到位。\n4 问：是否有过郭先生出现在网站上的时期？\n5 答：是的。\n6 问：后来是否到了他被从网站上撤下的时期？\n7 答：是的。\n8 问：谁要求将他从网站上撤下的？\n9 答：何先生（Mr. He）。\n10 问：何先生是否解释过他为何想将郭先生从\n11 网站上撤下？\n12 答：据我所能记起，是因为这给他的银行关系造成了\n13 困难。\n14 MURRAY 女士：法官阁下，我看现在是 4:56。如果法官\n15 阁下愿意，现在是休庭的好时机，但当然\n16 由法庭决定。\n17 法庭：好的。陪审团成员们，我们现在\n18 结束，你们明天做好准备于 9:30 进入\n19 法庭。请记住，你们不得相互之间或与任何其他人\n20 讨论本案。不要允许任何人在你们面前讨论本案。不要阅读、观看或\n21 收听来自任何来源的、涉及与本案相关的\n22 任何事项的内容。祝各位度过愉快的夜晚，你们可以\n23 退庭了。不要讨论您的证词。\n24 法官助理：陪审团退庭。\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\nO6HBGUO6 Reyes - 直接询问\n1 （陪审团不在场）\n2 法庭：请就座。在今天结束之前还有任何\n3 事项吗？\n4 KAMARAJU 先生：辩方没有。\n5 FINKEL 先生：政府方也没有。祝各位度过愉快的夜晚。\n6 法庭：你们也是。\n7 （休庭至 2024 年 6 月 18 日上午 9:00）\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\n1 询问索引\n2 被询问人： 页码\n3 JAMES ROBERT COLLINS JR.\n4 政府方 Finkel 先生直接询问 . . . . . . . . . . . . .2775\n5 辩方 Kamaraju 先生交叉询问 . . . . . . . . . . . .2815\n6 政府方 Finkel 先生再次直接询问 . . . . . . . . . . . .2892\n7 CHRISTINE FROSINI\n8 政府方 Murray 女士直接询问 . . . . . . . . . . . . .2897\n9 辩方 Shroff 女士交叉询问 . . . . . . . . . . . . .2952\n10 政府方 Murray 女士再次直接询问 . . . . . . . . . . . .2969\n11 辩方 Shroff 女士再次交叉询问 . . . . . . . . . . . .2970\n12 政府方 Murray 女士再次直接询问 . . . . . . . . . . . .2971\n13 辩方 Shroff 女士再次交叉询问 . . . . . . . . . . . .2972\n14 LIMARIE REYES\n15 政府方 Finkel 先生直接询问 . . . . . . . . . . . . .2973\n16 政府方证物\n17 证物编号 采纳页码\n18 MER-5 及 MER-6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2802\n19 145 及 146 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2900\n20 1850、1850A . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2998\n21 GC3、GC27、GC28、GC33、GC37、GC38、. . . . .2998\n22 GC40、GC43、GC54、GC59、GC60、\n23 GC93、GC95\n24 GC121、GC122、GC197、GC126、GC136、. . . . .2998\n25 GC150A、GC150、GC157、GC158、\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300\n\n1 GC160, GC168, GC175, GC178,\n2 GC184, GC187, GC189, GC198\n3 GC209, GC213, GC218, GC220, GC221, . . . . .2998\n4 GC222, GC227, GC228, GC233,\n5 GC242, GC254, GC276, GC286,\n6 GC292, GC293, GC299\n7 GC300, GC307, GC309, GC317, GC318, . . . . .2998\n8 GC332, GC334, GC340, GC341,\n9 GC346, GC363, GC365, GC372,\n10 GC376, GC377, GC379, GC380,\n11 GC382, GC387, GC389, GC392,\n12 GC393\n13 GC483, GC484, GC485, GC486, GC487, . . . . .2998\n14 GC422, GC423, GC424, GC405,\n15 GC406, GC409, GC415, GC416,\n16 GC418, GC419, GC422, GC427,\n17 GC428, GC431, GC432, GC433,\n18 GC436, GC438, GC441, GC443,\n19 GC444, GC450, GC452, GC453,\n20 GC454, GC455, GC467, GC470,\n21 GC476, GC480, GC484, GC486,\n22 GC487, GC494, GC495, GC497\n23 GC504, GC541, GC517, GC518, GC520, . . . . .2999\n24 GC521, GC522, GC525, GC526,\n25 GC527, GC528, GC530-534,\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.（南区速记员职业合伙）\n(212) 805-0300\n\n1 GC536-538, GC540, GC544,\n2 GC547, GC549, GC553, GC553A,\n3 及 GC550\n4 GXW-16 及 GXW-19 . . . . . . . . . . . . .3035\n5 MER-8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2808\n6 GXW-17 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3035\n7 101 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2995\n8 112 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2989\n9 113 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2776\n10 134 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2899\n11 MER138 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2792\n12 GC-511 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3028\n13 1100 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2903\n14 1101 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2918\n15 1102 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2930\n16 MER1203 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2784\n17 MER1204 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2786\n18 MER1205 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2798\n19 MER-1206 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2810\n20 被告证据\n21 证据编号 采信页码\n22 60554 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2821\n23 60556 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2873\n\nSOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.\n(212) 805-0300","key_entities":[],"ecf_references":[],"word_count":57306,"status":"published","published_at":"2024-07-23 00:00:00","created_at":"2024-07-23","updated_at":"2026-08-23 08:51:03"}