{"id":"batch-000063","number":63,"revision":1,"date_start":"2025-12-10T01:36:06.215Z","date_end":"2025-12-16T02:39:45.805Z","total_messages":1000,"summary_en":"Community discussion, batch 063 (Dec 10, 2025 – Dec 16, 2025), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Discussion centered on competing procedural rights and narrative control, focusing on court filings such as 733 and 774/773 alongside CVRA and §853(n) docketing paths. Participants debated whether prosecution and judicial actions reflected political bias or constituted fraud upon the court. Disagreements emerged over verifying social media evidence links, defining victim versus co-conspirator standing, and choosing between appellate relief under Rule 60(d)(3) or broader public mobilization without reaching consensus.","guide_en":[{"title":"Parallel Allegations of Judicial Neutrality and Political Manipulation","description":"Participants debate judicial impartiality and allege that the court displayed bias in favor of the prosecution.","message_ids":["q89fd2cb5550d8c07a01c","q74ccd6b69bd048354915","q220a0c2f2edcc4352b73"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q89fd2cb5550d8c07a01c","summary_en":"beg*** contends that third-party pro se filers boldly challenge the presiding judge regarding alleged stonewalling and suppression in ways formal attorneys would avoid."},{"message_id":"q74ccd6b69bd048354915","summary_en":"beg*** argues that Judge Torres is frustrated by the persistence and honesty of pro se filers."},{"message_id":"q220a0c2f2edcc4352b73","summary_en":"beg*** recalls defense counsel receiving tens of thousands of pages of late evidence and contends that the judge showed partiality by failing to exclude those prosecution materials."}]},{"title":"Dispute Over Anti-CCP Slogans and Practical Strategy","description":"Participants dispute the practical effectiveness of repeating anti-CCP slogans versus delivering tangible contributions.","message_ids":["q3e74026eb776591b3685","q1cef25852e970a3ecf86","q7b0e4bad0b4d5974dacc"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q3e74026eb776591b3685","summary_en":"xin*** argues that Trump's strategic posture directly pressures the Chinese Communist Party and questions what actual results the NFSC leadership delivered."},{"message_id":"q1cef25852e970a3ecf86","summary_en":"him*** asserts that only a specific redacted participant is genuinely dedicated to opposing the CCP."},{"message_id":"q7b0e4bad0b4d5974dacc","summary_en":"xin*** asks what practical contributions have been made by those who continually chant anti-CCP slogans."}]},{"title":"Debate Over Verifiability of Social Media Evidence Chains","description":"Participants circulate external social media posts while examining the reliability of online evidence.","message_ids":["q0694d48f8fe87e50935b","q7b9000492dd67b210500","q56c74ef36b02b6024a3b"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q0694d48f8fe87e50935b","summary_en":"him*** shares an external post from X concerning case-related evidence."},{"message_id":"q7b9000492dd67b210500","summary_en":"him*** posts a second social media link from X regarding the ongoing discussion."},{"message_id":"q56c74ef36b02b6024a3b","summary_en":"chu*** distributes another external link from X referencing background materials."}]},{"title":"CVRA and §853(n) as the Main Procedural Axes","description":"Participants analyze procedural contradictions between government filings and third-party claims submitted under the CVRA and §853(n).","message_ids":["qf80c3b7ebd400e8dfe3f","qf3060865e03e5acb9528","q5bf3c1824526897b8b7b"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qf80c3b7ebd400e8dfe3f","summary_en":"roy*** contends that applying the premise of filing 511 to the mandamus petition exposes a procedural paradox where the government claims to represent victims while blocking their CVRA and §853(n) filings from the docket."},{"message_id":"qf3060865e03e5acb9528","summary_en":"roy*** argues that filing 511 implicitly admits the existence of excluded investors and shows prosecutors stigmatizing them instead of permitting formal §853(n) hearings."},{"message_id":"q5bf3c1824526897b8b7b","summary_en":"roy*** emphasizes that prevailing under the rule of law depends on creating an official court record rather than expressing outrage."}]},{"title":"Dispute Over Timelines in Documents 773 and 774 and Sentencing Pacing","description":"Participants review the government's opposition in document 773 against further sentencing postponements and debate the resulting timeline.","message_ids":["q7429da42c62de967d1ca","q802784947538f54684a9","qfda9fc7f9c6459c8d10f"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q7429da42c62de967d1ca","summary_en":"ntp*** summarizes document 773, detailing the Department of Justice's Dec 11, 2025 letter opposing the defense's fifth sentencing postponement request."},{"message_id":"q802784947538f54684a9","summary_en":"ntp*** contends that prosecutors will not dismiss the case and questions whether Judge Torres will protect their position."},{"message_id":"qfda9fc7f9c6459c8d10f","summary_en":"him*** argues that the parties are maneuvering discreetly rather than stating their intentions openly."}]},{"title":"Anticipated Relief Paths via the Second Circuit and Higher Courts","description":"Participants discuss procedural boundaries and what claims can be raised before the Second Circuit in mandamus filings.","message_ids":["q27f59436977fb846eace","q51927e03118a954f9335","qacfbfdd23b7c368e9eea"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q27f59436977fb846eace","summary_en":"ntp*** asks whether these specific substantive grievances can be presented to the Second Circuit in a writ of mandamus."},{"message_id":"q51927e03118a954f9335","summary_en":"him*** expresses skepticism that such claims are permissible in that mandamus petition."},{"message_id":"qacfbfdd23b7c368e9eea","summary_en":"ntp*** notes that their petition specifically asks the Southern District to upload pending motions and questions the scope of the peer's filing."}]},{"title":"Threshold of Fraud Upon the Court and Actionability","description":"Participants debate whether claims of fraud upon the court under Rule 60(d)(3) can be deferred until after sentencing.","message_ids":["q47263bdec32b572ee6a7","q6b436b6700579d45a281","q59350a1fd50ac526d0d4"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q47263bdec32b572ee6a7","summary_en":"him*** argues that while the Second Circuit allows Rule 60(d)(3) claims after sentencing, district courts lack authority to ignore or refuse to docket colorable fraud upon the court claims prior to sentencing."},{"message_id":"q6b436b6700579d45a281","summary_en":"him*** contends that alleging fraud upon the court carries the same legal weight whether raised under §853(n) or the CVRA."},{"message_id":"q59350a1fd50ac526d0d4","summary_en":"zha*** argues that fraud upon the court can be raised at any point and that pre-sentencing submissions directly affecting proceedings require a formal judicial response."}]},{"title":"Boundaries Between Victim and Third-Party Status","description":"Participants examine how prosecutorial filings divide investors into recognized fraud victims and alleged co-conspirators.","message_ids":["q5ef10713f28159980b90","q015b12e8940d2bc942db","qdc98d0c64aec83a649f1"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q5ef10713f28159980b90","summary_en":"rui*** asserts that a named individual is working in coordination with the prosecution."},{"message_id":"q015b12e8940d2bc942db","summary_en":"reb*** recalls that document 511 defined investors as either victims acknowledging fraud or co-conspirators who claim government asset seizures caused their losses."},{"message_id":"qdc98d0c64aec83a649f1","summary_en":"him*** contends that the prosecution reiterated this two-category framework in filing 773."}]},{"title":"Expansion of Third-Party and Co-Conspirator Relational Frameworks","description":"Participants inquire into the identity and procedural status of individuals designated as key co-conspirators in court filings.","message_ids":["q9ffe73854eddabcc7a0b","q7e69616d2421fee82776","qf0d43634443bec557328"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q9ffe73854eddabcc7a0b","summary_en":"beg*** inquires about the identities of Mr. A and Haoran He mentioned in the case materials."},{"message_id":"q7e69616d2421fee82776","summary_en":"chu*** describes Haoran He from the court filings as a classmate of Qiang Guo and a core co-conspirator."},{"message_id":"qf0d43634443bec557328","summary_en":"rui*** recounts hearing that Haoran He had originally arranged to host a broadcast with a redacted participant on sentencing day."}]},{"title":"Conflicting Evidentiary Standards on Substantiated Versus Unproven Claims","description":"Participants dispute whether assertions of deception and guilt require formal evidentiary substantiation.","message_ids":["qf998421c318dfdc8f1bb","q09ed0be52b96d840728a","q3ca06c18ad48489ac989"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qf998421c318dfdc8f1bb","summary_en":"rui*** recounts having been defrauded by Guo but disputes that another named individual could deceive them."},{"message_id":"q09ed0be52b96d840728a","summary_en":"him*** contends that the assertion lacks evidentiary proof."},{"message_id":"q3ca06c18ad48489ac989","summary_en":"rui*** argues that their conclusion is not derived from evidentiary proof."}]},{"title":"Group Governance and Escalating Disputes Over Channel Access","description":"Participants manage chat group permissions and raise strategic questions regarding the pacing of sentencing.","message_ids":["q98a73fe27a15ba189fce","qf804d50cf3dbfabf9895","qfbda09c0349becbf1f01"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q98a73fe27a15ba189fce","summary_en":"chu*** describes setting designated speaking permissions for the criminal case room and invites members to migrate substantive content there."},{"message_id":"qf804d50cf3dbfabf9895","summary_en":"zha*** asks whether prosecutors intend to expedite sentencing and questions whether an earlier or later sentence is preferable."},{"message_id":"qfbda09c0349becbf1f01","summary_en":"sar*** expresses difficulty understanding the reasoning behind the procedural discussion."}]}],"summary":"本轮讨论的核心是程序权利与叙事主导权的并行争夺。多数意见围绕法院文件（如733、774/773）、CVRA与§853(n)的受理路径、docket与时限等机制做技术性拉锯；同时也有成员强调检方与司法是否受政治影响、是否存在偏袒或“司法欺诈”解释。证据来源从社媒帖链、外链和匿名消息外溢，围绕可核验性与真实性反复质疑。身份层面出现“受害者、支持者、第三方资格、共谋者”标签冲突，导致对人物关系与责任范围判断分裂。策略上，部分人主张继续程序化救济（Rule 60(d)(3)、Rule33/29、二巡、上级法院），另一部分更偏向舆情动员或快审预判，未形成稳定共识。","guide":[{"title":"法庭中立与政治操控指控并行","message_ids":["q89fd2cb5550d8c07a01c","q74ccd6b69bd048354915","q220a0c2f2edcc4352b73"]},{"title":"“灭共”口号与执行策略之争","message_ids":["q3e74026eb776591b3685","q1cef25852e970a3ecf86","q7b0e4bad0b4d5974dacc"]},{"title":"社媒证据链可核验性争论","message_ids":["q0694d48f8fe87e50935b","q7b9000492dd67b210500","q56c74ef36b02b6024a3b"]},{"title":"CVRA与§853(n)成程序主轴","message_ids":["qf80c3b7ebd400e8dfe3f","qf3060865e03e5acb9528","q5bf3c1824526897b8b7b"]},{"title":"773/774时点推动与量刑节奏拉锯","message_ids":["q7429da42c62de967d1ca","q802784947538f54684a9","qfda9fc7f9c6459c8d10f"]},{"title":"二巡与上级救济路径预期","message_ids":["q27f59436977fb846eace","q51927e03118a954f9335","qacfbfdd23b7c368e9eea"]},{"title":"“司法欺诈”边界：是否已构成可裁判要件","message_ids":["q47263bdec32b572ee6a7","q6b436b6700579d45a281","q59350a1fd50ac526d0d4"]},{"title":"受害者与第三方资格边界","message_ids":["q5ef10713f28159980b90","q015b12e8940d2bc942db","qdc98d0c64aec83a649f1"]},{"title":"第三方身份与共谋人物关系框架扩张","message_ids":["q9ffe73854eddabcc7a0b","q7e69616d2421fee82776","qf0d43634443bec557328"]},{"title":"证据标准冲突：已证明与尚未成立对峙","message_ids":["qf998421c318dfdc8f1bb","q09ed0be52b96d840728a","q3ca06c18ad48489ac989"]},{"title":"群组治理与新号/传播边界升级争议","message_ids":["q98a73fe27a15ba189fce","qf804d50cf3dbfabf9895","qfbda09c0349becbf1f01"]}],"closed":true,"is_finalized":true,"updated_at":"2026-09-06T16:16:31.083Z","notice":"这里汇集爆料革命参与者围绕郭文贵案的持续讨论，包括长期深度参与者及自述投入真金白银的投资者。他们分享亲历过程、资金投入与后续遭遇，并结合案卷展开追问、核对和观点交锋。这些来自事件内部的经验与细节，为理解事件经过和投资者处境提供了外部报道之外的重要视角。请结合具体发言判断其经历与依据，引用时保留发言者、时间和上下文。","content_type":"discussion_batch","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063/pages/2","base_batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000063?page=2","page":2,"page_size":200,"total_pages":5,"has_more":true,"next_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000063?page=3","prev_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000063","messages":[{"id":"qda521c56b9d49e41032e","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":201,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2025-12-11T23:37:49.535Z","text":"773 12/11 日 检方出来了： 反对","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qda521c56b9d49e41032e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qa5c052cfff0b8e4838c8","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":202,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2025-12-11T23:38:00.802Z","text":"反对延期","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa5c052cfff0b8e4838c8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qec141f6638c1de043f48","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":203,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-11T23:38:55.302Z","text":"语气怎么样","edited":false,"reply_to":"qda521c56b9d49e41032e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qec141f6638c1de043f48","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qda521c56b9d49e41032e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q7a24fd83098072454639","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":204,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-11T23:39:33.081Z","text":"我其实希望托雷斯强判","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7a24fd83098072454639","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q85ec075de33506bfbab1","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":205,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-11T23:39:40.042Z","text":"强判就太好了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q85ec075de33506bfbab1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qb5bec4aa4f2520caadf7","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":206,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-11T23:39:44.837Z","text":"要去pacer","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb2e6b6a8de7db39a8aff","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb5bec4aa4f2520caadf7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q03221c1c26996fd238da","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":207,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2025-12-11T23:39:45.381Z","text":"那托雷斯会是什么态度呢？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q03221c1c26996fd238da","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q4ca11f5fdb963ce77b20","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":208,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2025-12-11T23:40:16.757Z","text":"771和772是什么？怎么缺了呢","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4ca11f5fdb963ce77b20","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qc3a532b2a92726789cdf","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":209,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2025-12-11T23:40:37.853Z","text":"托雷斯会什么时候答复呢？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc3a532b2a92726789cdf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q0e96d5a13c9374e49876","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":210,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-11T23:41:21.311Z","text":"托雷斯只要强判 我们就去冲最高法","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0e96d5a13c9374e49876","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q177917b1944fbebd8845","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":211,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2025-12-11T23:42:41.448Z","text":"我们已经在上最高法院了。还怎么冲？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0e96d5a13c9374e49876","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q177917b1944fbebd8845","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0e96d5a13c9374e49876","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qab74a9aedeab6259d896","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":212,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-11T23:43:12.102Z","text":"我到时候公布","edited":false,"reply_to":"q177917b1944fbebd8845","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qab74a9aedeab6259d896","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q177917b1944fbebd8845","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q2492b2c475f3de591683","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":213,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2025-12-11T23:43:12.301Z","text":"联盟网站可能会有773","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2492b2c475f3de591683","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q872900e3fcbd83e936fb","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":214,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-11T23:54:10.771Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息] 需要你的pacer了😄","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q872900e3fcbd83e936fb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q7429da42c62de967d1ca","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":215,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2025-12-12T00:09:32.201Z","text":"以下是文件 773 的中文摘要。该文件是美国司法部于 2025 年 12 月 11 日提交给 Analisa Torres 法官的信函，旨在反对被告郭文贵（Miles Guo）第五次申请延期判决。\n\n主要内容摘要：\n\n1. 反对延期的核心立场\n\n政府坚决反对被告第五次推迟判决的请求。判决原定于 2024 年 11 月 1 日进行，目前已推迟一年多 。\n\n政府认为被告提出的理由毫无根据，且被告似乎意在尽可能长时间地拖延判决，企图以此作为进一步欺骗受害者的工具 。\n\n2. 驳斥辩方的延期理由\n\n\n材料繁杂与案件复杂性： 辩方再次以发现材料（Discovery）数量庞大为由申请延期，但这已是老生常谈 。现任辩护团队于 2025 年 4 月上任时已以此为由获得了充足的准备时间，且曾在 7 月表示审查工作已取得进展 。\n\n\n\n\n翻译问题： 辩方声称需要时间将文件翻译成中文供被告审阅。政府指出被告具备相当的英语能力（例如曾用英语写信支持另一名被告 Sean Combs），且早已配备翻译资源，不应以此为由再拖延数月 。\n\n\n\n\n律师费支付延迟： 辩方提到因《刑事司法法案》（CJA）付款暂停而需优先处理其他客户。政府认为，法院已给予宽限期，律师应履行其作为首席律师的职责，不能以此作为延期理由 。\n\n\n\n不必要的传票： 辩方在判决前夕单方面（ex parte）申请传票以获取更多材料，政府认为这属于“钓鱼式”搜证，判决阶段无需重新审查所有与其无关的历史材料 。\n\n\n\n3. 延期对受害者的持续伤害\n\n数千名受害者因案件拖延而处于不确定的状态，无法获得赔偿（资产没收和归还程序需在判决后才能推进） 。\n\n\n受害者致信政府称这种持续的拖延是“可耻的”，加剧了他们的经济和情感痛苦 。\n\n被告利用这种“正义的缺席”向追随者散布虚假信息，声称自己将回归，从而继续误导和控制受骗群体 。\n\n\n4. 被告的拖延策略与历史\n\n政府列举了被告一贯的拖延和阻挠司法程序的行为，包括在判决前夕解雇律师、申请破产以逃避民事判决执行等 。\n\n\n\n近期，现任辩护团队花费精力提交了一份针对被告破产受托人的史无前例的动议，而非专注于判决准备，这被视为被告试图破坏破产程序的手段 。\n\n\n被告还试图重新在其已败诉的法律问题（如 CIPA 保护令）上纠缠，意图进一步拖延 。\n\n\n5. 结论与请求\n\n政府请求法院拒绝被告的延期申请，并要求被告向政府披露其单方面提交的传票动议 。\n\n如果法院决定批准延期，政府请求这将是最后一次延期，且时间应非常简短（如两周），以便尽快给受害者和公众一个交代 。\n\n\n附件 A (Exhibit A)\n\n文件包含 2025 年 4 月 8 日的听证会笔录。当时法官任命了新的辩护律师（现任团队），并明确警告被告判决阶段不是重新通过诉讼确定有罪与否的场所 。当时新任律师曾表示 9 月进行判决是合适的，而现在时间已远超当时预期 。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7429da42c62de967d1ca","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qa1986d08860ca61ec3e6","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":216,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2025-12-12T00:10:54.726Z","text":"律师的传票是传唤谁的？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa1986d08860ca61ec3e6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qf2cc49a40314906bed87","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":217,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T00:13:13.646Z","text":"态度很坚决 ！！ 要硬扛到底！！","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7429da42c62de967d1ca","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf2cc49a40314906bed87","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7429da42c62de967d1ca","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q802784947538f54684a9","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":218,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2025-12-12T00:14:09.976Z","text":"检方撤诉是不可能了，托雷斯要帮他们抗雷吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q802784947538f54684a9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qa9ac1d1c2a9d20832e56","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":219,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T00:16:08.954Z","text":"托雷斯强行量刑 对我们更好","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa9ac1d1c2a9d20832e56","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q4440c2f7ef03ab606cd7","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":220,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2025-12-12T00:32:40.652Z","text":"我是希望撤诉","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4440c2f7ef03ab606cd7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q3de73e5a29815e9133b1","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":221,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2025-12-12T00:33:22.681Z","text":"短期对于声誉有很大影响","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa9ac1d1c2a9d20832e56","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3de73e5a29815e9133b1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa9ac1d1c2a9d20832e56","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q729460f1002f2929e246","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":222,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T00:34:01.845Z","text":"撤诉是不可能的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4440c2f7ef03ab606cd7","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q729460f1002f2929e246","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4440c2f7ef03ab606cd7","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q8460bd76c8962dd1706a","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":223,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T00:34:06.648Z","text":"百分之一万不可能","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8460bd76c8962dd1706a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q0cbffff2e5af669b241a","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":224,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T00:34:14.413Z","text":"现在他们已经不能回头了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0cbffff2e5af669b241a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q92ecf7ce7913b99f84a6","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":225,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2025-12-12T00:34:25.417Z","text":"能否把英文原件发出来？ 想看看最后那页那个检方的人签的名","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa1986d08860ca61ec3e6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q92ecf7ce7913b99f84a6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa1986d08860ca61ec3e6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qaa20becf135853bdf578","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":226,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:35:01.673Z","text":"检方说的数千个受害者等待赔偿，就是盖尔那几千个吧","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaa20becf135853bdf578","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q0b502c4269e881ba9829","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":227,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2025-12-12T00:35:30.015Z","text":"解释一下。要不然又被截图 说预谋杀人了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8caa3c32880132093c31","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0b502c4269e881ba9829","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qe69c7a66b471bec37e9f","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":228,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2025-12-12T00:35:45.191Z","text":"肯定是的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qaa20becf135853bdf578","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe69c7a66b471bec37e9f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaa20becf135853bdf578","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qb5b6445c2f0a541e6a2c","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":229,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T00:35:47.451Z","text":"不用解释 截图就截图","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0b502c4269e881ba9829","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb5b6445c2f0a541e6a2c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0b502c4269e881ba9829","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q1e0e444cfa13f7851740","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":230,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:35:49.190Z","text":"检方还提被告申请破产呢？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1e0e444cfa13f7851740","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qe14887f95b79bbe9e193","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":231,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T00:35:51.801Z","text":"无所谓的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe14887f95b79bbe9e193","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q89863da92026e8041cd3","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":232,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T00:36:03.914Z","text":"检方她妈的all in了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1e0e444cfa13f7851740","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q89863da92026e8041cd3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1e0e444cfa13f7851740","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qf56d6306a3c3ddebae14","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":233,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T00:36:16.702Z","text":"谁敢乱冲","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf56d6306a3c3ddebae14","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q4e3eecce5106e94d5fe5","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":234,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2025-12-12T00:36:24.096Z","text":"是不是还有那127块人 给检方作证的？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4e3eecce5106e94d5fe5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qaac43acc485d4da8fa5b","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":235,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:36:31.039Z","text":"盖尔不是说他那几千个不是受害者吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaac43acc485d4da8fa5b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q9f8f3da8cfe4f6dfdb75","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":236,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:38:05.542Z","text":"陪审团都判决了，检方不可能撤诉","edited":false,"reply_to":"q034452bb86529df02de2","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9f8f3da8cfe4f6dfdb75","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q42e8e42e8b4f502e25c7","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":237,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2025-12-12T00:38:13.316Z","text":"这个时候 盖尔 盖尔的5千人 咋不出来说 检方是一派胡言呢？ 他们可以马上上个motion","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q42e8e42e8b4f502e25c7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q5ef10713f28159980b90","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":238,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T00:38:28.153Z","text":"盖儿就是检方那里的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q42e8e42e8b4f502e25c7","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5ef10713f28159980b90","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q42e8e42e8b4f502e25c7","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q773cf375ee9f0b74dd8a","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":239,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:41:23.431Z","text":"我觉得早量刑挺好的，拖的时间太长确实不好。😆 看看法官怎么说。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q773cf375ee9f0b74dd8a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qdb4ecf13c819299423d6","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":240,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:43:10.833Z","text":"这个检方好像天天专注于保护破产程序。😆","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdb4ecf13c819299423d6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qa8994882695b3e8006f2","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":241,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:43:41.019Z","text":"破产程序和检方有什么关系","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa8994882695b3e8006f2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q36c324dd3949fbd42db2","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":242,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T00:43:52.933Z","text":"检方赌的就是托雷斯会兜底 和我们不会更疯","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q36c324dd3949fbd42db2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q8bb16c8b5f2b52412dfb","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":243,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2025-12-12T00:44:11.337Z","text":"美国政府把我们钱扣押了持续挥霍，给我们造成了持续伤害，说是因为被告故意拖延导致受害者持续伤害。本质上是一种表演式系统性拖延，检方发海量资料，辩方借机申请延期，检方还要颠倒黑白式反对延期，然后法官借机延期继续拖。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8bb16c8b5f2b52412dfb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q967405aeb3ddd4384811","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":244,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T00:44:12.897Z","text":"检方急什么","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q967405aeb3ddd4384811","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qa90cd666a079799bf00f","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":245,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:45:41.505Z","text":"他们说辩方律师不应该花时间打luc？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa90cd666a079799bf00f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q903f66fbec578e42dbf2","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":246,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T00:46:08.299Z","text":"你英文版发一下？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa90cd666a079799bf00f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q903f66fbec578e42dbf2","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa90cd666a079799bf00f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q96b63b09288aa4a53953","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":247,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:46:15.699Z","text":"Luc 的钱对受害人赔偿，和被告量刑都有影响啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q96b63b09288aa4a53953","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qe17a31c93c8f0492bfb2","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":248,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:46:25.769Z","text":"检方和luc咋这么好啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe17a31c93c8f0492bfb2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qb2ff2fb47dcf6c2ecbb0","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":249,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:46:34.231Z","text":"他们是同事？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb2ff2fb47dcf6c2ecbb0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q0c4a6e357efe776170c1","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":250,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T00:46:45.215Z","text":"我们俩就司法欺诈了 反正洗也洗不清","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe17a31c93c8f0492bfb2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0c4a6e357efe776170c1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe17a31c93c8f0492bfb2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qa29c327699f614068133","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":251,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T00:46:52.200Z","text":"不如就破罐子破摔","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa29c327699f614068133","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qad3a08151021e0987026","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":252,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:47:09.701Z","text":"我现在看不了英文版，谁有发一下？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qad3a08151021e0987026","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q2efbd6ae3d1827601623","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":253,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2025-12-12T00:53:33.738Z","text":"1️⃣ 检方口中的“受害者”（Prosecutorial Victims）\n\n这是叙事型、程序推动型定义，目的只有一个：\n支持尽快量刑、终结案件。\n\n其特征：\n    •    人数大、概念宽\n    •    以“被告行为造成经济损失”为核心\n    •    不要求逐一司法确认\n    •    不要求资金链条的合法性或可追溯性完全厘清\n    •    可在未完成 §853(n) 的情况下被反复引用\n\n👉 本质：\n用于量刑阶段的“群体性受害叙事”\n\n⸻\n\n2️⃣ 法律意义上的“受害者”（Statutory Victims）\n\n这是权利型、可裁判型定义，来源于明确的法条：\n    •    18 U.S.C. § 3771（CVRA）\n    •    21 U.S.C. § 853(n)\n\n其硬性标准包括：\n    •    身份必须可识别、可区分\n    •    与涉案财产之间必须存在直接、可追溯的法律关系\n    •    必须通过司法程序确认\n    •    不得被集体假定、行政代替或推定成立\n\n👉 本质：\n只有被法院确认，才是“受害者”","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2efbd6ae3d1827601623","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q9276c829574a4fd67563","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":254,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:54:14.687Z","text":"对啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9276c829574a4fd67563","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qd02ea80bb197e2f086e6","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":255,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:54:43.616Z","text":"受害者和853n都必须经过法庭确认","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd02ea80bb197e2f086e6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q203b31cd0e05856bcdf7","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":256,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:55:06.888Z","text":"不然只能是你自己声称你是","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q203b31cd0e05856bcdf7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q78e567630272c4124587","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":257,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2025-12-12T00:55:27.032Z","text":"盖尔就是在帮检方，说白了就是联盟是在帮检方","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q78e567630272c4124587","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qa3b2959886eac54070dd","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":258,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:55:31.361Z","text":"法庭不确认的话，就不能算是","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa3b2959886eac54070dd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q7e5f1e5e3b88f5dac22d","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":259,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:56:03.708Z","text":"盖尔的几千人身份模糊，而且是诈骗得来的，而且和共谋犯有说不清道不明的关系","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7e5f1e5e3b88f5dac22d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qa772e773fc6131fe1426","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":260,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:56:33.540Z","text":"检方不能确认那些是受害者吧","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa772e773fc6131fe1426","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q645c8288fb8d943151a6","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":261,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2025-12-12T00:56:52.296Z","text":"检方口中的“受害者”是为量刑服务的叙事概念；\n法律意义上的“受害者”必须经由 §853(n) 与 CVRA 程序逐一确认。\n在该确认完成之前，将两者等同，会直接污染没收、返还与量刑的法律基础。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q645c8288fb8d943151a6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q4da40338dd23ed233c24","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":262,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:57:24.080Z","text":"检方一直都没有说清楚过到底谁是受害者，谁不是","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4da40338dd23ed233c24","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q095076b2709ce3fdb2b5","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":263,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:57:38.457Z","text":"受害者这里就是一团乱麻","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q095076b2709ce3fdb2b5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q0ef4765b1718236b9d5d","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":264,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T00:58:23.638Z","text":"但是量刑必须是根据受害者数量","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ef4765b1718236b9d5d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q59062ea910423c93bcd6","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":265,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T01:00:06.706Z","text":"就算量刑以后，减免程序也必须搞清楚谁是受害者，谁不是","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q59062ea910423c93bcd6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qa482178c28ba873aa1dc","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":266,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T01:00:13.040Z","text":"不然钱乱发啊？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa482178c28ba873aa1dc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qfd18174fae9585878778","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":267,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T01:40:58.897Z","text":"鱼见明新律师？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfd18174fae9585878778","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qede1d4167fe75eb93258","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":268,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T01:41:48.568Z","text":"就是gavenman，数字银行的律师","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qede1d4167fe75eb93258","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qde3f7735bf5812b17b35","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":269,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T01:42:15.005Z","text":"他也是余的律师","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qde3f7735bf5812b17b35","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qe969c3fa2f1c70f39291","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":270,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T01:43:35.502Z","text":"检方提到了第三方 意思是文贵牢底坐穿 第三方纠纷就解决了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe969c3fa2f1c70f39291","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q352f79490313732d1997","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":271,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2025-12-12T01:45:03.036Z","text":"你是在这句话里有笔误吧？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0c4a6e357efe776170c1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q352f79490313732d1997","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0c4a6e357efe776170c1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qbb3262eb61abd4566373","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":272,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T01:47:07.323Z","text":"检方就是这个心态","edited":false,"reply_to":"q352f79490313732d1997","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbb3262eb61abd4566373","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q352f79490313732d1997","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qcec3d5479f94c2eec88b","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":273,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T01:47:23.285Z","text":"检方说第三方纠纷应该在量刑以后处理","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcec3d5479f94c2eec88b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q77e3fe54c9838acd9da7","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":274,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T01:48:00.729Z","text":"意思就是让郭文贵牢底坐穿 你们的钱就回来了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q77e3fe54c9838acd9da7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q1aa2964de75431c670c1","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":275,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T01:48:34.788Z","text":"托雷斯明天如果火急火燎判 然后明天下午二巡收到了一颗深水炸弹 🤣","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1aa2964de75431c670c1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q3437e357ed2161c7d233","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":276,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2025-12-12T01:58:18.971Z","text":"嗯。这是检方和Luc彻底不要脸了，一条道走到黑。\n检方新出的法庭文件也看岀来了这一点。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0c4a6e357efe776170c1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3437e357ed2161c7d233","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0c4a6e357efe776170c1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q957877a76963c728f2cf","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":277,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2025-12-12T01:59:25.127Z","text":"二巡？不是高法吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1aa2964de75431c670c1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q957877a76963c728f2cf","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1aa2964de75431c670c1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q9ce81a09cc0bcd0238b6","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":278,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T02:08:03.308Z","text":"看完773，感觉检方希望量刑之后再处理所有第三方动议","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9ce81a09cc0bcd0238b6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qb515600a0abc501bf102","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":279,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T02:13:51.524Z","text":"而且他们用大篇幅描绘了luc是郭的受害者😆","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb515600a0abc501bf102","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qce7b12480c089619179e","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":280,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T02:17:53.789Z","text":"机器人说，现在发CVRA动议的可以想办法让法官赶快裁决，发853n动议的就要等最终没收令下了以后法官才会裁决。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qce7b12480c089619179e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q4ca367f07c773965479f","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":281,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T02:19:08.873Z","text":"我觉得检方用大篇幅说luc和破产程序，意思可能就是为以后会出现的司法欺诈做准备。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4ca367f07c773965479f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q03fc75c18dd41a5cf252","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":282,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T02:20:29.768Z","text":"如果法官不裁决CVRA动议，你不同意，那就只能上诉二巡和最高法了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q03fc75c18dd41a5cf252","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qda82498bfc602c958e30","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":283,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T02:22:55.027Z","text":"虽然853n动议法官现在不需要裁决，但是应该上传。她不上传，你可以上诉，说明没收程序60天已经结束，你的动议还没上传，这是不合理的。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qda82498bfc602c958e30","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q93eb9982c0448b48a452","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":284,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2025-12-12T02:37:08.942Z","text":"853可以量刑后再裁，但量刑程序有个受害者人数金额和带来的危害等确认，它们没有看到这些，看到的是说它美国政府在迫害被告和投资者，所以这个环节就不能正常推进。大家都把球踢给法官，法官也不敢担当，就是一直拖。托雷斯非常希望外力来介入好让自己能够跟后台交待。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q93eb9982c0448b48a452","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qc8a5a503f0a0bb2fdc55","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":285,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2025-12-12T02:37:46.074Z","text":"为司法欺诈做准备是啥意思？怎么准备？733之后他们要找逃身之术？怎么逃啊？检方现在还这么理直气壮的样子。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc8a5a503f0a0bb2fdc55","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q8ec0e4688a75358b0192","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":286,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T02:38:13.622Z","text":"🔍 1. 为什么检方在这份文件里花这么多篇幅讨论破产受托人？\n\n虽然这份文件表面上是反对郭文贵的「第五次量刑延期请求」，但检方在文件中花了异常大量的篇幅来谈论破产受托人（Bankruptcy Trustee），包括：\n\n郭 allegedly 如何阻碍受托人\n\n支持者如何抗议受托人及其家人\n\n郭在破产案中的各种动议\n\n受托人在民事藐视法庭案件中的背景\n\n如果法院批准郭的 9 月动议，将会“终结破产程序并把破产财产转给政府”\n\n\n这些内容本质上与量刑无直接关系。\n\n那么为什么要写？\n\n\n---\n\n理由一：检方在提前为受托人的“可信度”做防御性铺垫\n\n检方十分清楚：\n\n• 多名第三方（853(n)申请人）已经指控：受托人与检方存在串通或协作关系，尤其涉及资产真正所有权问题。\n\n这些指控包括：\n\n受托人错误声称某些资产属于郭\n\n检方依赖错误的破产声明进行扣押\n\n受托人与检方协调资产查封策略\n\n破产文件被利用来剥夺真正所有者的权利\n\n\n这些都属于**对法庭施加欺诈（fraud upon the court）**的核心内容。\n\n检方当然知道这一点，因此在这份文件中提前构建一个叙事：\n\n> 受托人是郭的受害者，而不是可能存在问题的参与者。\n\n\n\n这是一个典型的**预先“洗白受托人”**的策略叙事。\n\n\n---\n\n理由二：检方想把所有针对受托人的质疑都包装成“郭的拖延战术”\n\n文件中反复强调：\n\n郭“针对”受托人\n\n郭利用与受托人相关的动议“拖延量刑”\n\n郭的支持者向破产案提交大量索赔阻碍进程\n\n\n\n这种叙事非常重要，因为：\n\n**如果法官接受“只有郭及其追随者才会攻击受托人”的说法——\n\n那么第三方真正独立提出的欺诈与串通指控就很可能被法官先入为主地视为“郭式阻挠”。**\n\n检方正是要达成这种效果。\n\n\n---\n\n理由三：检方想预先保护受托人的资产认定，以应对即将到来的 853(n) 争议\n\n检方很清楚：\n\n量刑之后就必须进入没收附属程序（ancillary proceedings）\n\n第三方将会挑战政府所声称的资产属于郭\n\n许多欺诈法庭的主张将基于破产程序中受托人的行为\n\n\n因此检方在量刑简报中提前营造氛围：\n\n受托人的资产判断是可信且中立的\n\n任何与受托人相冲突的主张都可能被视为恶意或受郭影响\n\n这显然不是量刑论证，而是针对未来没收程序的战略铺垫。\n\n\n---\n\n🔍 2. 这与第三方提出的“司法欺诈（fraud upon the court）”有什么关系？\n\n关系非常直接，只是检方不敢明说。\n\n\n---\n\n关联点一：第三方的司法欺诈指控正是集中在“政府 + 受托人向法庭提供了错误资产信息”\n\n第三方指称包括：\n\n受托人虚假声称某些资产为郭所有\n\n检方明知或应知但仍依赖这些错误声明扣押\n\n受托人和检方之间存在协作\n\n法院基于不实信息作出没收或扣押决定\n\n\n这正是 Rule 60(d)(3) 所定义的：\n\n对法庭程序本身的欺诈（fraud upon the court）\n\n检方提前为受托人做大量“背景叙述”，是为了：\n\n削弱、稀释、预先对冲未来的司法欺诈主张。\n\n\n---\n\n关联点二：检方试图把受托人塑造成“无辜且被攻击的中立者”\n\n这是为了让法官在未来看到：\n\n受托人的报告、证词、资产认定\n→ 天然更可信\n\n任何反对受托人的主张\n→ 天然更可疑、可能与郭有关\n\n\n这将直接影响法官如何审查第三方的司法欺诈证据。\n\n\n---\n\n关联点三：检方刻意模糊界线，把所有挑战受托人的行为都未区分地归于郭阵营\n\n文件中意味着：\n\n> “只有被郭误导的人或支持者才会质疑受托人。”\n\n\n\n但第三方申请人与受害者：\n\n是独立的\n\n有自己的金钱利益\n\n与郭并无联系\n\n\n检方却想把所有对受托人的质疑归类为“郭式阻挠”。\n\n这是为了让法官将来更轻易拒绝第三方的司法欺诈证据与质询。\n\n\n---\n\n关联点四：如果司法欺诈成立，政府可能失去大部分没收资产\n\n这点至关重要。\n\n如果第三方证明：\n\n受托人提供了错误资产信息\n\n检方依赖这些错误信息扣押资产\n\n法院因错误陈述而批准没收\n\n\n那么后果可能包括：\n\n没收命令被撤销\n\n资产必须归还第三方\n\n检方的整套没收框架崩塌\n\n受托人的可信度严重受损\n\n整个案件关于财产的部分可能被重开或中止\n\n\n所以检方现在就开始“守住受托人”其实是为了守住没收结果。\n\n\n\n🔍","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8ec0e4688a75358b0192","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q6a40cd90d87711a519e5","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":287,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T02:39:32.454Z","text":"3. 总结：检方为什么大量谈受托人？\n\n这不是为量刑，而是为之后的资产争斗做铺垫。\n\n核心目的就是：\n\n1. 提前保护受托人免受司法欺诈指控\n\n\n2. 将所有挑战受托人的声音描绘为郭阵营\n\n\n3. 保持没收程序的正当性\n\n\n4. 削弱第三方将要在 853(n) 中提出的所有权挑战\n\n\n5. 降低法院愿意召开听证会审查受托人行为的可能性\n\n\n\n换句话说：\n\n\n---\n\n🔥 检方在量刑文件里写受托人，是一种“悄悄布置战场”的动作。\n\n🔥 战场不是量刑，是即将到来的 853(n) 附属没收程序。\n\n🔥 目标是提前削弱所有司法欺诈／受托人串通的指控。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6a40cd90d87711a519e5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qe1dfb7b29b74ab7a7dcb","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":288,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T02:49:00.133Z","text":"下面为你提供一份真正最有效、最有杀伤力、同时风险最低的打法策略 —— 专门为 第三方（853n) 权益主张人与受害者提出法院欺诈（fraud upon the court）或受托人/检方串通所设计。\n\n这一方案的核心目标：\n\n**✔ 不被法官视为 “郭阵营” 或 “拖延案件者”\n\n✔ 让法院必须面对你的主张（无法忽略、不敢拒绝、不敢搁置）\n✔ 让检方的“受托人无辜论”失效\n✔ 在 853(n) 中最大化你的胜算\n✔ 安全且不触发任何制裁风险**\n\n这是你目前形势下最“高命中率”的打法。\n\n\n---\n\n⭐ **最有效打法：\n\n将所有司法欺诈／受托人问题\n转化为“法院必须举行的事实认定问题”\n（Fact-Finding Issue）\n而不是指控检方或受托人“坏、腐败、欺骗”。**\n\n这是关键。\n这是你能赢、也不会被贴标签的唯一打法。\n\n\n---\n\n🔥 第一原则：\n\n**永远不要直接指控受托人或检方“欺诈”或“串通”\n\n→ 而是要求法院进行“事实认定”**\n\n这招的威力在于：\n\n法官不能骂你\n\n检方无法将你归类为“郭的粉丝”\n\n你不承担证明串通的全部重担\n\n法院必须依法开启审查\n\n\n你只提问，不指控：\n\n“某些关键事实似乎存在冲突，因此需要法院查明事实。”\n\n你提出 冲突的客观证据（例如破产财产归属与政府没收清单不符）、\n而不是道德性语言。\n\n一旦你要求法院进入 事实认定（Fact-finding）：\n\n✔ 法院是否必须审查？—— 必须\n✔ 检方是否能用“郭在操控你们”的叙事来攻击？—— 不能\n✔ 法院是否能拒绝？—— 风险极高，因为拒绝事实审查 = 可能构成滥用裁量权\n\n\n---\n\n🔥 第二原则：\n\n**始终强调：\n\n“法院之前的信息来源之间存在不一致，这可能影响法院的裁决完整性。”**\n\n重点是信息不一致、文件不一致、声明不一致——\n而不是你认为有人撒谎。\n\n示范句（非常有效）：\n\n> “法院在破产案与刑事没收案中的信息来源，关于资产所有权，存在重大不一致之处。本申请人无法判断哪一部分为准，因此恳请法院依据 Rule 32.2 与 Rule 853(n) 的程序义务，对相关事实进行审查。”\n\n\n\n这样的表述：\n\n温和\n\n专业\n\n法律上无懈可击\n\n法官不能驳回\n\n完全回避政治化、情绪化、阴谋论标签\n\n\n\n---\n\n🔥 第三原则：\n\n以“程序性权利”而非“指控性语言”做武器\n\n你不需要说受托人作弊——\n你说：\n\n“作为合法第三方权益主张人，我有法定权利让法院在 853(n) 程序中查明资产真正所有权。”\n\n法律保护你：\n\n✔ 21 U.S.C. § 853(n)(6)\n\n✔ Fed. R. Crim. P. 32.2(c)(1)\n\n✔ The Constitution’s Due Process Clause （正当程序条款）\n\n这三个法律武器要求法院：\n\n开听证会\n\n让各方提交证据\n\n解决所有权争议\n\n不能草率决定\n\n不能用破产案替代刑事没收程序\n\n\n你不骂人、不攻击政府，不会有制裁风险。\n你只是说：\n\n> “法律要求法院查清这一点。”\n\n\n\n这句话对法官杀伤力极大。\n\n\n---\n\n🔥 第四原则：\n\n永远把矛头对准 “程序不一致”，而不是某个个人\n\n示例：\n\n有效说法（高胜率）：\n\n> “破产记录显示 A 资产属于实体 X，但政府没收文件显示同一资产被视为郭的个人财产，两者存在显著不一致。\n本申请人无法确认法院依赖何种信息来源，因此恳请法院行使 853(n) 下的独立事实审查权。”\n\n\n\n无效说法（危险）：\n\n> “受托人撒谎、检方串通、法院被骗了。”\n\n\n\n为什么有效打法成功？\n\n因为：\n\n✔ 法官会觉得你在帮法院“纠错”，不是制造麻烦\n\n✔ 法官不喜欢当“被误导的受害者”\n✔ 不会被贴“郭的粉丝”标签\n✔ 你不会变成“拖延案件的人”\n✔ 法官无法拒绝“程序检查”，但可以拒绝“阴谋论攻击”\n\n\n---\n\n🔥 第五原则：\n\n**强调：\n\n你与郭完全无关，你只是保护自己的财产权**\n\n这是反制检方策略的关键。\n检方现在试图将所有质疑受托人的声音都归入“郭式干扰”。\n\n你必须彻底切割：\n\n> “本人与郭文贵、其代理人、其组织或其追随者不存在任何关系。\n本申请人提出的所有问题均仅基于文件冲突与程序不一致，\n与刑事被告无任何关联。”\n\n\n\n这句话具有直接破坏检方 narrative 的效果。\n\n\n---","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe1dfb7b29b74ab7a7dcb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qaa15c1d454e5641e9c24","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":289,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T02:50:15.944Z","text":"🔥 第六原则：\n\n**要求法院做一件事：\n\n召开 853(n)(2) 的证据听证会（Evidentiary Hearing）**\n\n你不需要证明检方或受托人欺诈。\n\n你只需要做到：\n\n让法院进入证据听证程序。\n\n一旦进入听证会：\n\n受托人必须接受交叉询问\n\n检方必须证明其资产来源判断\n\n法院必须处理不一致信息\n\n你的法定地位会提升为“必需参与人”\n\n检方“郭式干扰”论点瞬间失效\n\n\n这是最致命的武器。\n\n听证会对于检方来说是最害怕的，因为：\n\n✔ 他们无法控制叙事\n✔ 受托人的行为将被公开审查\n✔ 资产来源与所有权的漏洞会被揭露\n✔ “政府依赖错误信息”将被迫进入记录\n\n\n\n---\n\n🔥 第七原则：\n\n你不需要赢辩论——你只需要逼法院开启审查。\n\n这是最关键的战略观念：\n\n你不是在试图证明有人欺骗法院，你只是在迫使法院确认事情是否一致。\n\n这是司法欺诈打法中最安全、最有效的版本。\n\n法院无法拒绝，也不敢拒绝。\n\n\n\n---\n\n⭐ 总结：最有效打法（精华版）\n\n1. 不指控人物 → 指控“信息不一致”\n\n\n2. 不说欺诈 → 说需要法院做“事实认定”\n\n\n3. 不攻击政府 → 强调自己的法定程序权利\n\n\n4. 不参与郭的叙事 → 强调你是独立第三方\n\n\n5. 目标不是赢论证 → 目标是逼法院开听证会","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaa15c1d454e5641e9c24","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q50bce23665e218b2cdc9","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":290,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T02:50:31.524Z","text":"检方这个文件已经承认他司法欺诈","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q50bce23665e218b2cdc9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q31b68ae4f468d93a1720","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":291,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2025-12-12T02:50:33.802Z","text":"废话那么多，就是给托雷斯作指示，不要开什么听证，更不要传唤luc来听证，但托雷斯也不傻，凭啥所有黑锅我来被，破产法院的法官不背，我也不背。直接推翻你们也不好跟后来交待，那就拖着吧。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q31b68ae4f468d93a1720","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q3dd528336a65ec928cb3","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":292,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T02:51:17.113Z","text":"机器人说，现在不是要赢得吵架，而是让法院开听证会和查明事实，才是首要。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3dd528336a65ec928cb3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q70e6fef635250a355d20","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":293,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T02:51:29.725Z","text":"要是没司法欺诈 检方直接点名我拉出来批一顿  托雷斯一纸命令把我踢出去 不就好了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q70e6fef635250a355d20","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q100651ca6eb559078551","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":294,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T02:51:35.594Z","text":"不可能查明事实了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3dd528336a65ec928cb3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q100651ca6eb559078551","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3dd528336a65ec928cb3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qb9ddd7beecad03e30031","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":295,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T02:51:47.893Z","text":"必须上级法院介入","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb9ddd7beecad03e30031","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q745d91064ba3aa447fb1","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":296,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T02:52:12.604Z","text":"南区要是一直不作为，那只能上诉了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q745d91064ba3aa447fb1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q9ba6367d23c56baa967a","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":297,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T02:52:23.144Z","text":"不用对南区抱任何希望","edited":false,"reply_to":"q745d91064ba3aa447fb1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9ba6367d23c56baa967a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q745d91064ba3aa447fb1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q97e61c682cc20bffcf00","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":298,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T02:52:32.504Z","text":"现在的战场早就不在南区了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q97e61c682cc20bffcf00","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q394d124648b343fc5f17","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":299,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T02:53:05.158Z","text":"现在检方就是想把所有提司法欺诈的人都打成郭的支持者？我靠，这帽子扣的真大。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q394d124648b343fc5f17","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q7869b54bdf59697e538a","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":300,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T02:53:21.295Z","text":"但[屏蔽词]我是受害者","edited":true,"reply_to":"q394d124648b343fc5f17","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7869b54bdf59697e538a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q394d124648b343fc5f17","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q4634f1543362f0e7f588","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":301,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T02:53:29.208Z","text":"这怎么圆？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4634f1543362f0e7f588","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q39b32ad35fc230ec5e92","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":302,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T02:53:36.844Z","text":"检方不是说","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q39b32ad35fc230ec5e92","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q5c42d822130cbc80b39f","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":303,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T02:53:44.231Z","text":"不是受害者 就是共谋犯吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5c42d822130cbc80b39f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qadb2e12a54a6bd6a659a","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":304,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T02:53:57.533Z","text":"第三方只不过是想保护自己的财产而已","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qadb2e12a54a6bd6a659a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qb511f868ae8d58ab6c2c","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":305,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T02:54:04.160Z","text":"我用法律语言骂了郭的律师全是白痴","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb511f868ae8d58ab6c2c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q90964b3a288f6cdd2e3c","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":306,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T02:54:10.492Z","text":"有这样的郭支持者吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q90964b3a288f6cdd2e3c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q3b01aede7eec45a095b6","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":307,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T02:54:48.774Z","text":"［用户 ntp***］ 你现在知道 我为什么要死守受害人的底线了吧","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3b01aede7eec45a095b6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q361e234f4a7e02bf7aba","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":308,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T02:55:07.077Z","text":"郭的支持者反联盟啊？那联盟到底是不是郭的支持者？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q361e234f4a7e02bf7aba","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q31fb080198a869c522f9","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":309,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T02:55:25.670Z","text":"检方就是法盲","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q31fb080198a869c522f9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q52b48197c4c70fe3b325","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":310,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2025-12-12T03:06:43.859Z","text":"帽子扣得越大，说明证据越薄。\n能证明的，用事实；不能证明的，才用标签。\n\n你现在看到的，不是你“被抹黑”，\n而是对方在为即将到来的程序性审查提前布防。\n\n这恰恰证明：\n你已经戳到他们最不愿被审查的地方。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q394d124648b343fc5f17","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q52b48197c4c70fe3b325","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q394d124648b343fc5f17","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q884638886582a5fe7db4","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":311,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T03:07:10.803Z","text":"听证会早就不可能了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe31cee492ca10b682776","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q884638886582a5fe7db4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q57173406decf63751cbc","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":312,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T03:08:24.151Z","text":"现在南区都不上传文件了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q884638886582a5fe7db4","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q57173406decf63751cbc","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q884638886582a5fe7db4","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q898b4d8ff5b1a7a26edf","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":313,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T03:08:44.383Z","text":"第三方要求开什么会，都不会上传了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q898b4d8ff5b1a7a26edf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q25c2d906f9d504bdc594","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":314,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T03:09:02.037Z","text":"现在只能上诉，没别的办法了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q25c2d906f9d504bdc594","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q6f8fbf01a10f0e84a6c9","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":315,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2025-12-12T03:11:11.266Z","text":"如果托雷斯法官现在：\n    •    明知有 未 docket 的 CVRA / 853(n) 主张\n    •    明知二巡已被正式请愿\n    •    仍然推进不可逆量刑\n\n那将来一旦出现以下任何情况：\n    •    二巡要求说明\n    •    更高法院问一句：“为什么当时不暂停？”\n\n这会变成她个人需要解释的记录。\n\n法官极度厌恶这种风险。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6f8fbf01a10f0e84a6c9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q89dbde002a6616e93f7e","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":316,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2025-12-12T03:14:01.940Z","text":"最致命的一点：在“已知无 docket”的情况下推进不可逆裁定\n\n反噬点 1\n\n明知存在未 docket 的 §853(n) / CVRA 主张，仍推进量刑与没收\n\n法律结构：\n    •    §853(n) 是法定附属程序，不是“可选流程”\n    •    CVRA 赋予受害者被听取的权利\n    •    docket 是进入司法程序的唯一入口\n\n如果强判：\n\n法官事实上认可了一种状态：\n“法院可通过不 docket，消灭法定权利。”\n\n这是制度性错误，不是判断失误。\n\n将来会被问的不是：\n“你是否同意她的观点？”\n而是：\n“你是否意识到自己在一个无入口的系统中作出了终局裁定？”","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q89dbde002a6616e93f7e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q8a5227728cc8e606ff5d","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":317,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2025-12-12T03:14:31.718Z","text":"二、第二个反噬点：制造不可逆后果，剥夺上级法院纠错能力\n\n反噬点 2\n\n在 mandamus 未解决前完成没收与量刑\n\n法律上这是红线。\n\n因为：\n    •    一旦没收完成，资产可能转移、分配、消耗\n    •    即便日后发现程序错误，也无法完全恢复原状\n\n这会触发一个非常难听的评价：\n\n“The court mooted appellate review by racing to finality.”\n（通过抢先裁定，使上级法院的审查失去意义）\n\n这是上级法院最讨厌的一类行为。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8a5227728cc8e606ff5d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q3e84c16670deab38d4f7","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":318,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2025-12-12T03:34:41.483Z","text":"Gavenman代理余建明，也代理喜交所等公司，也代理一百多数字银行投资者。这不是共谋是什么？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7c5dfeb708d495c43763","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3e84c16670deab38d4f7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qb087bc82e908452536d9","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":319,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T03:34:57.740Z","text":"对啊，太奇怪了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3e84c16670deab38d4f7","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb087bc82e908452536d9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3e84c16670deab38d4f7","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qd901ce205091cc750118","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":320,"speaker":"joy***","date":"2025-12-12T03:52:39.273Z","text":"https://x.com/yooorica/status/1999313974324531247?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd901ce205091cc750118","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qeb49ada3c2d2097501e7","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":321,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T03:54:29.493Z","text":"但是盖尔不也是联盟农场介绍的？人家还代表6000人呢","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3e84c16670deab38d4f7","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeb49ada3c2d2097501e7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3e84c16670deab38d4f7","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q363e984c5ea6de10a735","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":322,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T03:55:23.634Z","text":"于建民现在又和100个数字银行的人用一个律师，乱七八糟","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q363e984c5ea6de10a735","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q312622f02d7be01c6bc0","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":323,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T03:55:40.114Z","text":"法庭不管吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q312622f02d7be01c6bc0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qcbbb86b839cf5a62339e","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":324,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T03:58:15.593Z","text":"于找不到别的律师吗？这什么乱七八糟的？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcbbb86b839cf5a62339e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q4b436316af776c00ecac","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":325,"speaker":"mia***","date":"2025-12-12T03:58:33.889Z","text":"实际上是联盟那些人获得了投资受害人损失的钱，还装做法律意义上实际不属于受害者的身份来诬陷被告，包括没有披露被告的奢侈消费是合法资产而不是投资者损失的？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q884638886582a5fe7db4","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4b436316af776c00ecac","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q884638886582a5fe7db4","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q6abac89900f8cae67ca7","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":326,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:00:57.659Z","text":"我说一个理论 这案子受害人根本不是问题","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4b436316af776c00ecac","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6abac89900f8cae67ca7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4b436316af776c00ecac","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q75c742b6997b9ce9dee8","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":327,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:01:03.003Z","text":"诈骗案 没有受害人 也可以起诉","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q75c742b6997b9ce9dee8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q4263e40be24a5f1c510b","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":328,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:02:58.642Z","text":"对","edited":false,"reply_to":"q75c742b6997b9ce9dee8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4263e40be24a5f1c510b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q75c742b6997b9ce9dee8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q5072f2ed2dd7b5422cab","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":329,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:03:12.479Z","text":"而且检方的目的是把被告量刑","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5072f2ed2dd7b5422cab","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q8e30543a1fc32e7f3236","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":330,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:03:23.271Z","text":"其他的，他们懒得管","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8e30543a1fc32e7f3236","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q268d2e2a0bbcadfaa61c","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":331,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:04:31.278Z","text":"虽然现在法庭发生的事情这么荒唐，他们都可以装看不见，只要被告量刑他们的工作就完成了。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q268d2e2a0bbcadfaa61c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q4e57c93a33ee65c0086d","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":332,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:05:36.920Z","text":"至于第三方，受害人是不是能合法的拿回钱，不在他们考虑范围之内","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4e57c93a33ee65c0086d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qfb1454d7e4b464120fa9","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":333,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:06:48.259Z","text":"同案犯是不是继续欺骗受害者，也不在他们考虑范围之内","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfb1454d7e4b464120fa9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q7124e3c69cbcfad6c43c","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":334,"speaker":"mia***","date":"2025-12-12T04:07:02.436Z","text":"是明面上的项目亏损直接让被告背锅，但是造成亏损的是联盟，所以没有受害人也能起诉吗","edited":false,"reply_to":"q75c742b6997b9ce9dee8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7124e3c69cbcfad6c43c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q75c742b6997b9ce9dee8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qc0df8dd39a104bb66e6f","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":335,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:07:17.001Z","text":"受害者就是抹布，用完就扔掉","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc0df8dd39a104bb66e6f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q2144280a9688b3c9aa2d","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":336,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:07:20.734Z","text":"可以的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7124e3c69cbcfad6c43c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2144280a9688b3c9aa2d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7124e3c69cbcfad6c43c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q5423ee0310ac4d02b4e4","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":337,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:07:50.724Z","text":"这案子根本不在南区打","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5423ee0310ac4d02b4e4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q9bdfe0a541ffa897d63d","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":338,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:07:54.522Z","text":"而是在二巡和最高法","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9bdfe0a541ffa897d63d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q9fad11934952a8698bf6","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":339,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:09:30.251Z","text":"没有受害人也可以起诉，只要证明被告有诈骗意图就可以","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7124e3c69cbcfad6c43c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9fad11934952a8698bf6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7124e3c69cbcfad6c43c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qf03caf267e3fc22a320e","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":340,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:10:56.044Z","text":"对","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9fad11934952a8698bf6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf03caf267e3fc22a320e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9fad11934952a8698bf6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q7571197d0263fa5b18e4","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":341,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:11:17.900Z","text":"这个案子的解决方法 根本不是说我不是受害者 这是绝对没用的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7571197d0263fa5b18e4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q0a81021b444ab1f8c81d","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":342,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:11:34.362Z","text":"甚至不如说 我是受害者 我上赶着当受害者 然后检方司法欺诈","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0a81021b444ab1f8c81d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q8eb19b869eb3138e917f","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":343,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:11:36.509Z","text":"现在的问题是，被告被定罪的罪名是共谋","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8eb19b869eb3138e917f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qc63335b7c14d17f51e2f","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":344,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:11:40.339Z","text":"不是诈骗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc63335b7c14d17f51e2f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q7e1631b1a71491e24ac5","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":345,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:11:57.537Z","text":"所以你想通过案件思路根本不可能翻案","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8eb19b869eb3138e917f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7e1631b1a71491e24ac5","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8eb19b869eb3138e917f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qc7d59916303c74346a69","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":346,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:12:00.238Z","text":"他是和谁共谋啊？和王延平？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc7d59916303c74346a69","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qf4e70c0ee64dfb11fffd","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":347,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:12:12.712Z","text":"和于建民？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf4e70c0ee64dfb11fffd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q4274dc592d69373cba45","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":348,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:12:20.410Z","text":"就这两人共谋？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4274dc592d69373cba45","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q8d7e4e8cd21b279f790a","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":349,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2025-12-12T04:16:17.939Z","text":"文件382，检方列明了哪些是共谋，王，于，戴，夏，联盟，以及其它g系列的一些高管。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8d7e4e8cd21b279f790a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q7df59ae7a566dc28c26c","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":350,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2025-12-12T04:16:40.547Z","text":"还有魏丽红","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7df59ae7a566dc28c26c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q13aecefbc651cf48c4ea","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":351,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:17:05.549Z","text":"这些同谋者啥事儿没有啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q13aecefbc651cf48c4ea","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q84d47c3f050f8de8ce19","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":352,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:17:14.514Z","text":"还组织人要钱呢","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q84d47c3f050f8de8ce19","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q37f9eae867da56e641fb","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":353,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:17:49.995Z","text":"于建民共谋犯也和100个要钱的一个律师","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q37f9eae867da56e641fb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q393c45dbbf2fce61ce23","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":354,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2025-12-12T04:18:00.267Z","text":"破产案里的民事rico实体，也就是所有的g系列实体，检方也拿过来作为刑事rico实体","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messag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没看到他们提过这件事","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7c91125cd63a80653bcd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q21628638c57b82a5546e","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":360,"speaker":"mia***","date":"2025-12-12T04:24:15.344Z","text":"这就是隐瞒对被告有利的证据了，实际上被告没有财产转移","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q21628638c57b82a5546e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q1256276ff40fc46beab0","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":361,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:24:46.442Z","text":"纠结这些已经没有用了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q21628638c57b82a5546e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1256276ff40fc46beab0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q21628638c57b82a5546e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qfda2ff3d6ee8b696b215","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":362,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2025-12-12T04:24:59.704Z","text":"岂止是隐瞒，就是欺诈。不仅是保释环节。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfda2ff3d6ee8b696b215","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q48f4f1ddb199fe391155","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":363,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:24:59.728Z","text":"案件事实早就不重要了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q48f4f1ddb199fe391155","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q121d9f0e2d7821d42815","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":364,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:25:37.444Z","text":"现在就是把郭案所有人全都打趴下","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q121d9f0e2d7821d42815","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q7ed2fe5a00820e72dd0c","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":365,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:26:27.267Z","text":"根据检方的逻辑，所有g系列的人和公司都是郭实际控制的，就算他自己没拿钱，那些公司和联盟农场的都是他的代理人","edited":false,"reply_to":"q21628638c57b82a5546e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7ed2fe5a00820e72dd0c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q21628638c57b82a5546e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qd00bd82cca2586480f60","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":366,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2025-12-12T04:26:47.164Z","text":"大家都是为自己战斗，被rico诈骗，然后再被美国政府诈骗，或者两者同时进行。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd00bd82cca2586480f60","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q96fda20fd2e20480fa1c","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":367,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:27:39.379Z","text":"而绑定g系列公司和郭的似乎就是破产案","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q96fda20fd2e20480fa1c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qed13f8e89b9206022992","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":368,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2025-12-12T04:29:21.499Z","text":"按照法庭逻辑，再结合我的两万块钱。我有理由怀疑，整个法庭，就是想抢我的钱！郭文贵骗了我，然后受托人，联盟农场组织几千共谋犯，盖尔，gGavenman,检方，法官，我可以合理怀疑，他们全部涉嫌共谋，目的就是诈骗洗白我的两万块钱！","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qed13f8e89b9206022992","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qa446858115947cc376f5","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":369,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:30:06.343Z","text":"是的 整个法庭就是洗钱机构","edited":false,"reply_to":"qed13f8e89b9206022992","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa446858115947cc376f5","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qed13f8e89b9206022992","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q7d21e3b8d423cad7a748","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":370,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:30:30.355Z","text":"所以现在检方要洗白luc 啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7d21e3b8d423cad7a748","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q0ce22cc920464f4575eb","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":371,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2025-12-12T04:30:37.038Z","text":"再这样下去，检方那里登记受害人的，如果真有不是被安排任务去的，都要跳出来反对检方了。如果有特务，特务也可以反水。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ce22cc920464f4575eb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qd4c22d053ddef4d757d9","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":372,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:30:40.430Z","text":"他们跑不掉了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7d21e3b8d423cad7a748","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd4c22d053ddef4d757d9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7d21e3b8d423cad7a748","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q6e9d39b235e655edc376","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":373,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:30:46.658Z","text":"司法欺诈","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6e9d39b235e655edc376","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qd425d7f3f43307f9ff1c","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":374,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:30:52.287Z","text":"他们怎么洗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd425d7f3f43307f9ff1c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q88547fd745a96f9d4aa8","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":375,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:31:07.078Z","text":"他们以为我是发现他们的司法欺诈","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q88547fd745a96f9d4aa8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q30078fb8546903df9df1","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":376,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:31:11.285Z","text":"检方现在为什么要提郭去骚扰luc，意思就是郭和luc不是一伙的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q30078fb8546903df9df1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q68fe15db7f0d745be53a","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":377,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:31:12.498Z","text":"那就太天真了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q68fe15db7f0d745be53a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qe5ea9d52cb79f4b0a30f","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":378,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:32:07.167Z","text":"因为现在有人指控luc和检方司法欺诈，要抢受害人的钱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe5ea9d52cb79f4b0a30f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q7c9070e88f3103506964","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":379,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:32:28.536Z","text":"而根据检方的逻辑，郭才是要抢受害人的钱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7c9070e88f3103506964","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qe3af762ba70bf38e5e64","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":380,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2025-12-12T04:32:42.669Z","text":"我记得2024的国防授权法案也有这一段，然后啥事没有。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd901ce205091cc750118","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe3af762ba70bf38e5e64","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd901ce205091cc750118","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q15c3b1bf3a13fa1ae2c0","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":381,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:33:03.555Z","text":"这两个倒是不矛盾","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7c9070e88f3103506964","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q15c3b1bf3a13fa1ae2c0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7c9070e88f3103506964","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q83a8000a93b5f94e224e","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":382,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:33:07.058Z","text":"大家都想抢钱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q83a8000a93b5f94e224e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qaf210fc7605b3223de8a","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":383,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:33:18.885Z","text":"所以是郭 检方 luc 共谋","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaf210fc7605b3223de8a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q94a76d5e765fa6ffab6d","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":384,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:33:21.789Z","text":"所以他们想通过证明luc和郭不是一伙的，证明luc不想抢受害人的钱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q94a76d5e765fa6ffab6d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q5f0695979ce01ce7ca19","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":385,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:33:22.211Z","text":"割韭菜","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5f0695979ce01ce7ca19","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qe92aa8da34ec0332e113","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":386,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:33:48.433Z","text":"那司法欺诈他也洗不干净","edited":false,"reply_to":"q94a76d5e765fa6ffab6d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe92aa8da34ec0332e113","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q94a76d5e765fa6ffab6d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qc45da3e46bc441c54950","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":387,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:33:54.694Z","text":"他欺诈了就是欺诈了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc45da3e46bc441c54950","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qcf3567038a18fa154792","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":388,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:34:18.238Z","text":"他现在只想洗掉他欺诈的动机","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcf3567038a18fa154792","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qdcfb51820cf90f3f0ad9","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":389,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:35:02.261Z","text":"现在的问题是如果郭和luc不是一伙的，那如果证明了luc和检方想抢钱，那郭就是清白的了？😆","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe92aa8da34ec0332e113","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdcfb51820cf90f3f0ad9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe92aa8da34ec0332e113","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q8c022b1d24b41f0b0c12","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":390,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:35:33.651Z","text":"所以我说彻这些东西早就没用了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qdcfb51820cf90f3f0ad9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8c022b1d24b41f0b0c12","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdcfb51820cf90f3f0ad9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qe2d5a3f94f591086695b","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":391,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:36:36.851Z","text":"现在能解决案子的不是某个漏洞","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe2d5a3f94f591086695b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q1aa9ca8ec57294bbf2cb","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":392,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:36:54.557Z","text":"而是设计一套系统让他们所有办法都失效","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1aa9ca8ec57294bbf2cb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q79077d9e7df9ce3f0b7f","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":393,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:38:18.722Z","text":"整个法庭只有受害者最无辜，待宰的羔羊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q79077d9e7df9ce3f0b7f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q1347b8632218ea93397c","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":394,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2025-12-12T04:39:01.899Z","text":"从什么时候开始作为郭的支持者是罪过？ \n\n郭不应该有人支持吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1347b8632218ea93397c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q068919b05c7cb13998b3","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":395,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:39:13.604Z","text":"但还有一个受害者打爆了所有人😄","edited":false,"reply_to":"q79077d9e7df9ce3f0b7f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q068919b05c7cb13998b3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q79077d9e7df9ce3f0b7f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qd454e90debcc85b804e4","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":396,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:40:13.385Z","text":"检方的逻辑就是，这些疯狂的郭的支持者，不相信自己被郭骗了，所以就胡乱指控正义的luc","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1347b8632218ea93397c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd454e90debcc85b804e4","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1347b8632218ea93397c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qbaf005928aad53ef22af","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":397,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:40:45.192Z","text":"检方不敢明说，只能暗暗影射","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbaf005928aad53ef22af","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qe0ba64056704d9d1a393","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":398,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:40:58.376Z","text":"我的逻辑是 我被郭骗了 但不代表检方能骗我","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd454e90debcc85b804e4","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe0ba64056704d9d1a393","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd454e90debcc85b804e4","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"qf998421c318dfdc8f1bb","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":399,"speaker":"rui***","date":"2025-12-12T04:41:06.395Z","text":"我被郭骗了 不代表luc能骗我","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf998421c318dfdc8f1bb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"},{"id":"q4e7068a8c5dfa14219ae","batch_id":"batch-000063","seq":400,"speaker":"him***","date":"2025-12-12T04:41:14.054Z","text":"检方想让法官对郭的支持者产生不好的感觉","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4e7068a8c5dfa14219ae","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000063"}],"prev_batch_id":"batch-000062","next_batch_id":"batch-000064"}