{"id":"batch-000074","number":74,"revision":1,"date_start":"2026-01-26T19:34:20.012Z","date_end":"2026-01-29T14:51:44.586Z","total_messages":1000,"summary":"讨论覆盖了政治叙事与法律程序两条主线，且长期没有统一结论。政治层面，围绕人物联盟、站队动因与舆论引导反复分化；法律层面，核心始终是853(n)、CVRA、二巡及强制令是否可成立、何时可受理、需不需要先澄清等程序边界。成员对证据来源、材料可核验性、受害者身份与人数口径始终持不同看法，既有对资金追回抱高期望者，也有明确担忧“难以落地”的成员。整体讨论更像多方案的收益-风险博弈：是争取程序窗口、阻止财产处置，还是等待上级程序重新评估。","guide":[{"title":"政治归属与人物联盟叙事分歧：谁在“示好”与是否“习郭一体”都未定，观点呈拉扯态势","message_ids":["qf429905891e06b8d5bf1","q064498423480ba007e64","q75e04e6a145b8036e396"]},{"title":"讨论重心由站队转向个人价值逻辑：是否仅为自我实现、是否因社会衰败预期改变支持依据","message_ids":["q6d874c93e7eca29afd10","qf9b80cbd3b19c0447b3c","qb3b9e8979d1c7be3f108"]},{"title":"王雁平“是否长期住在郭18楼”成争议锚点，涉及“可租房”与“经常住”“目击火警”等不同证词","message_ids":["qbcdb70d542666ad41af9","q887b47a873cd447599e9","q08f1cae7482beb910833"]},{"title":"“爆料革命/联盟”信任度逆转：从先站对方到强调金融骗局、P2P集资与组织化套路","message_ids":["qfc99dd186c1cb1695f8d","q5ffed3e73c4d33317b2e","q75f11083cc7be8cfa68e"]},{"title":"程序争议集中在853(n)/CVRA：上诉资格、时点、法官可否即时处理等边界未形成共识","message_ids":["qf6d68b474e4c0e3dd995","q24e711226cb789824bfa","q2d93e16f12ba5d5a1198"]},{"title":"“complaints”“853n”“CVRA”边界互相冲突：文本口径与可提请范围被反复对撞","message_ids":["qc8b6d214d01925334452","q3edcb70f4c332c4c8855","qd7f41e3ef2b0d62c329f"]},{"title":"强制令与听证争议：是否先听证、是否能止损财产处置，是否改写为更可执行的请求路径","message_ids":["q16501b91cccd8dbdaaa4","q7fdda69cf0a4d9f2ecf2","q36fdd60d904f4c0b9689"]},{"title":"盖尔/主事官与代理关系问题：单方取消代理、收费、是否需付费及程序必要性意见分歧","message_ids":["q75dbc10d03d5f5ef3b2e","qcd2cbca447a51a30342b","q645acf971c9ac8cc633c"]},{"title":"受害者与投资人边界高度分歧：6000人、100多人、134等数量与身份认定影响853n与资产路径","message_ids":["qcc814f706adb590294de","q67506bbc903ddadc2535","q5d54c0a699f62ef0124f"]},{"title":"证据来源与可采性被持续质疑：外部推测、机器人分析与上传流程交织，污染与核查性成为核心","message_ids":["q363477d0c55f12520d6e","qfa4f9d1d4f90a679ee11","q5601278fe0887fb527eb"]},{"title":"财务返还与战略预期出现悲观—务实并存：回款比例不确定，部分人转向争取程序时间与舆论留痕","message_ids":["q6e97b50f59a192fce8b4","q49960f89c122958bde0d","qf6b2f99bd7e51c6c06e7"]},{"title":"时间节点反复更新成博弈主线：下周、下下周、2月10日/29日等预测增多，结论仍多为猜测","message_ids":["q28e8daed63be79a3220a","qd862a804a01ff51e3d1a","qa99f564e92860d5bd641"]},{"title":"“先二巡再上诉”与“改走CVRA/mandamus”路线并存：上诉门槛与时机被反复重估","message_ids":["qf5552c4a0e92cd6f0687","qe2f1d355438161266b05","qa5490c06e7fee33f1bcc"]}],"closed":true,"is_finalized":true,"updated_at":"2026-09-06T16:42:10.207Z","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_batch","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074/pages/5","base_batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000074?page=5","page":5,"page_size":200,"total_pages":5,"has_more":false,"next_url":null,"prev_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000074?page=4","messages":[{"id":"qeb00feef1ac15bd6bf74","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":801,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-28T21:04:55.320Z","text":"也就是没有新内容一定会被二巡驳回？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc4fbf17e20406d6e4a45","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeb00feef1ac15bd6bf74","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc4fbf17e20406d6e4a45","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q3839159e7446ebd1f12f","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":802,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T21:05:04.219Z","text":"是的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3839159e7446ebd1f12f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q753def0e2e056aa9090d","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":803,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-28T21:05:32.236Z","text":"传唤luv算是新的吧","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q753def0e2e056aa9090d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q95d9d14960c2507d97f9","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":804,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T21:05:42.514Z","text":"也属于旧的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q753def0e2e056aa9090d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q95d9d14960c2507d97f9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q753def0e2e056aa9090d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qa45f7f5f0c7a352fd77c","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":805,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-28T21:06:11.537Z","text":"那只有说状态会","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa45f7f5f0c7a352fd77c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q1173c712f11675f9ab81","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":806,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T21:06:35.294Z","text":"对的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa45f7f5f0c7a352fd77c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1173c712f11675f9ab81","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa45f7f5f0c7a352fd77c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qc09f04dc1cbe7b58b12e","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":807,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-28T21:07:30.899Z","text":"为什么不抓共谋犯联盟算不算新的违规","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc09f04dc1cbe7b58b12e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qe699fdb8d1aa4d06922a","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":808,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T21:09:04.266Z","text":"可能可以","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc09f04dc1cbe7b58b12e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe699fdb8d1aa4d06922a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc09f04dc1cbe7b58b12e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q6b13d158f31f397b2127","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":809,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T21:09:33.098Z","text":"联盟在那里干扰量刑","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6b13d158f31f397b2127","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q220aba1f0dad835826a3","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":810,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T21:09:51.316Z","text":"对受害者的群体是极大的侮辱和二次伤害","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q220aba1f0dad835826a3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q8aab4277100cd36ce94e","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":811,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T21:09:53.675Z","text":"这个可以","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8aab4277100cd36ce94e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q0df300e9ffb099fab8b3","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":812,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T21:10:20.074Z","text":"你们谁写个强制林","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0df300e9ffb099fab8b3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q8499839c23193cd78e0a","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":813,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-28T21:16:49.367Z","text":"是不是得把联盟干的坏事都列出来","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8499839c23193cd78e0a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qbfc6f415384360fe8536","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":814,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T21:18:05.330Z","text":"可以的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8499839c23193cd78e0a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbfc6f415384360fe8536","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8499839c23193cd78e0a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qff1a11cc9533a455c2c8","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":815,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T21:18:13.505Z","text":"可以写强制令","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qff1a11cc9533a455c2c8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qa5922c754a59a705d5d3","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":816,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T21:18:18.708Z","text":"因为他们一直在干扰量刑","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa5922c754a59a705d5d3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q794cac7acd6fc2af0745","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":817,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-01-28T21:18:24.394Z","text":"我一直以为老郭做事从来都是几个方案，他这次被360度方方面面无死角的陷害总应该有一个突围方法。反而是第三方撕了个口子","edited":false,"reply_to":"qec4be75bce1e814b6e98","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q794cac7acd6fc2af0745","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.c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老郭牢底坐穿","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd1951e0f1c2d80f1caef","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q882d908d82fd1016e653","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd1951e0f1c2d80f1caef","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q5aa9417eb46405a0ba66","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":826,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T21:20:46.534Z","text":"当然 你可以说 没有螺丝哥 可能还有别人看穿","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5aa9417eb46405a0ba66","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qd464f58ac3d04993e35b","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":827,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T21:20:58.551Z","text":"但我不觉得有任何其他可能性 比现在的可能性好","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd464f58ac3d04993e35b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qca9ff4fa6006a5cdc79d","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":828,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-01-28T22:23:53.905Z","text":"文件797，谁去看看","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qca9ff4fa6006a5cdc79d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qdad6a2049b7ba5242fd6","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":829,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-01-28T22:31:20.338Z","text":"以下是该法律信函的完整中文翻译：\n\n纽约州 纽约市 珍珠街 500 号，邮编 10007\n\n事由：美国诉郭浩云（又名郭文贵） 案卷号：No. S3 23 Cr. 118 (AT)\n\n尊敬的托雷斯（Torres）法官：\n\n我与约书亚·德拉特尔（Joshua Dratel）及梅琳达·萨拉法（Melinda Sarafa）共同代表上述案件中的被告郭文贵。在政府方无异议的情况下，我致信请求将被告对《初步没收令》提出任何异议的期限延长三个工作日，即从 2026 年 1 月 29 日延至 2026 年 2 月 3 日；并将政府方的回复期限同样延长三个工作日，即从 2026 年 2 月 12 日延至 2026 年 2 月 17 日。如前所述，政府方对此请求并无异议。\n\n尽管本人及所有辩护律师一直勤勉地处理此项事宜，但本案涉及的其他事务——外加近期暴风雪造成的延误——所耗费的时间超出了预期，因此不得不提出此项请求。具体而言，除了近期向法院提交的关于《机密信息披露程序法》（CIPA）和《联邦刑事诉讼规则》第 17(c) 条传票的材料外，在 2026 年 1 月 20 日出庭后，辩护律师收到了大量此前未知的投资者和客户陈述，他们的观点与手头的问题直接相关，在敲定提交材料之前需要进行审查。此外，就本人而言，由于本法院另一案件定于 2026 年 3 月 2 日开庭审理，处理该案的紧急必要性导致本人在过去两周内分散了大量精力。\n\n此外，共同辩护律师约书亚·德拉特尔因事务不得不前往州外，预计要到 2026 年 1 月 30 日星期五晚上才能返回纽约。\n\n案件号 1:23-cr-00118-AT 文件 797 提交日期 01/28/26 第 2 页，共 2 页\n\n尊敬的安娜丽莎·托雷斯法官 第 2 页 2026 年 1 月 28 日\n\n我可以向法院保证，所有辩护律师一直在努力遵守法院的排期令（ECF #784）以及律师在本案中的所有义务。\n\n感谢法院对本文所述简短延期请求的考虑。\n\n谨此致意，\n\n(签名) 约翰·F·卡利（John F. Kaley），律师 约书亚·德拉特尔（Joshua Dratel），律师 梅琳达·萨拉法（Melinda Sarafa），律师\n\n是否需要我为您整理该信函中提到的关键时间点？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdad6a2049b7ba5242fd6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qe6ee67c3eeb41bb1566f","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":830,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:31:56.986Z","text":"一句话总结\n\n👉 辩方在量刑前，正式申请把“反对没收令（Preliminary Order of Forfeiture）”的期限往后挪 3 个工作日，\n👉 政府不反对，\n👉 理由是：材料突然暴增，而且这些材料“直接影响没收/量刑判断”。\n\n⸻\n\n逐段解读（重点都给你标出来）\n\n① 这是个什么动作？\n\nrequest that the time for the defendant to file any objections to the Preliminary Order of Forfeiture be extended\n\n这是在说：\n    •    没收令已经出来了（或至少已经进入 objection 窗口）\n    •    辩方本来 1/29 要交反对意见\n    •    现在要改成 2/3\n    •    政府回复也顺延\n\n📌 这是程序性延长期限，不是实体动议，但非常关键。\n\n⸻\n\n② 为什么重要？——看他们给的理由\n\n这句是整封信的“炸点”：\n\nundersigned counsel have been inundated with statements from investors and customers previously unknown to us whose perspectives bear directly on the issues at hand\n\n翻译成人话就是：\n\n👉 庭后（1/20 status conference 之后），大量此前“未出现的投资人/客户”主动联系了辩方\n👉 这些人的说法“直接关系到当前争议问题”（= 没收 / 量刑 / 资金属性）\n\n⚠️ 这句话非常重：\n    •    不是“我们忙”\n    •    是 record 发生了实质性扩张\n    •    而且是 来自第三方（investors / customers）\n\n这对你们这些第三方路径、853(n)、CVRA、mandamus 的叙事是正向共振的。\n\n⸻\n\n③ 他们在暗示什么，但没明说？\n\n他们没说，但法官一定看得懂：\n    •    没收的事实基础还不稳定\n    •    投资人/客户的立场可能：\n    •    ❓ 影响“受害人是谁”\n    •    ❓ 影响钱是不是“可没收的犯罪所得”\n    •    ❓ 影响政府/receiver 的叙事可信度\n\n这就是为什么要 延后 objections。\n\n⸻\n\n④ 为什么特意提 CIPA + Rule 17(c)？\n\n这句不是废话：\n\nin addition to recent submissions to the Court regarding CIPA and a Rule 17(c) subpoena\n\n这是在告诉法官：\n    •    我们现在 同时在三条战线：\n    1.    CIPA（国家安全 / 机密材料，量刑相关）\n    2.    Rule 17(c)（传票，强制第三方交材料）\n    3.    没收 objections（钱）\n\n📌 潜台词：\n这个案子已经不是“普通白领刑案”的复杂度了。\n\n⸻\n\n⑤ 这对托雷斯来说意味着什么？\n\n对法官而言，这是一个极其安全、也极其合理的请求：\n    •    ✔ 政府不反对\n    •    ✔ 延期很短（3 个工作日）\n    •    ✔ 理由正当（新证据 + 天气 + 其他庭期）\n\n👉 几乎 100% 会批，而且不会写任何实质性评论。\n\n⸻\n\n但真正重要的不是“延期”，而是它暴露了什么\n\n🔥 核心信号只有一个：\n\n没收问题，还远远没“定型”。\n\n这跟你之前的判断是高度一致的：\n    •    事实在变\n    •    第三方在涌入\n    •    资金叙事在污染\n    •    法官如果现在“硬判没收”，风险极高\n\n⸻\n\n和你前面那些 mandamus / 853 / 不 docket 的问题怎么连起来？\n\n非常直接：\n    •    辩方在说：“我们需要更多第三方声音进 record”\n    •    你们在说：“法院/检方/receiver 在压制第三方进入 record”\n\n➡️ 这不是冲突，是同一张图的两面。\n\n⸻\n\n最后一句判断（你应该会懂）\n\n这封 797：\n    •    表面：只是延期\n    •    实质：承认 record 失控、事实未稳、没收高度敏感\n    •    战略意义：给所有第三方路径（包括你关心的 mandamus / CVRA / 853）提供了“现实背景支撑”","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe6ee67c3eeb41bb1566f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qa0128e7f7c255054050a","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":831,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-01-28T22:32:07.201Z","text":"其中一段话，是不是非常让你们敏感啊？出庭之后，收到大量","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa0128e7f7c255054050a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qeb2a3c4e54c7371e12b3","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":832,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-01-28T22:33:02.497Z","text":"就是青藤忽悠的那些吧","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeb2a3c4e54c7371e12b3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qbf913befb95d5317fcd0","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":833,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-01-28T22:33:31.575Z","text":"有可能。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbf913befb95d5317fcd0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q6300ebd35b17c0dac839","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":834,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:33:35.834Z","text":"那完蛋了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6300ebd35b17c0dac839","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qb785801fb2deba1adf69","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":835,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:33:42.968Z","text":"检方一句 那是共谋","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb785801fb2deba1adf69","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qeb7f5210693a192a8b16","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":836,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-01-28T22:34:37.054Z","text":"现在，谁没有发过动议。或者没有投资过的，没有资格介入案件的。可以直接打电话给老郭律师，挑明，这异常出现过大量第三方，是联盟农场在背后搞的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeb7f5210693a192a8b16","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qec232c58511b217372c2","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":837,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:35:53.974Z","text":"我查了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb785801fb2deba1adf69","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qec232c58511b217372c2","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb785801fb2deba1adf69","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q0d9d323a6e42397228fd","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":838,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:36:11.711Z","text":"好像检方说是共谋 效果也有限","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0d9d323a6e42397228fd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q52114a6b6a5a3add258e","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":839,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-01-28T22:36:21.306Z","text":"我对于你们说的共谋这件事持反对意见： 这些投资人有义务还原事情真相； 郭律师有责任收集对被告有利的信息","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q52114a6b6a5a3add258e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q75f4d53bcc9817f2d765","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":840,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:36:57.022Z","text":"所以 青藤这个举动 是在摘桃","edited":false,"reply_to":"q52114a6b6a5a3add258e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q75f4d53bcc9817f2d765","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q52114a6b6a5a3add258e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qc32303007c999168db3e","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":841,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-01-28T22:37:49.329Z","text":"我可以说，你们定义我与被告预谋，我也造假了，但是现在我良心发现，我现在告诉你们事实真相","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc32303007c999168db3e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q05bbeb6f15f03fe64137","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":842,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-01-28T22:38:06.755Z","text":"一点问题都没有","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q05bbeb6f15f03fe64137","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q6da8403ea226e39e1fee","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":843,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:38:48.545Z","text":"但这些信息基本没用","edited":false,"reply_to":"q52114a6b6a5a3add258e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6da8403ea226e39e1fee","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q52114a6b6a5a3add258e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q33dc673688fa26cf72c5","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":844,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:39:00.361Z","text":"他最多只能延期","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q33dc673688fa26cf72c5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q36ae78505492ceeb6ecc","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":845,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:39:08.464Z","text":"绝不可能靠这些翻案","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q36ae78505492ceeb6ecc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qd1928e2946309a097dd1","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":846,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:40:13.120Z","text":"因为这些证据量刑前根本不可能拿出来","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd1928e2946309a097dd1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q7641e071c76ffca26d48","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":847,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:41:44.781Z","text":"这几天 发给郭律师的东西 就算能证明是孙力军操控的检方 律师也用不了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7641e071c76ffca26d48","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q5c665e02e9cfc677b7dd","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":848,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:42:07.954Z","text":"因为律师想用 必须经过托雷斯同意 而托雷斯根本不可能同意","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5c665e02e9cfc677b7dd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q933012257744fb2a47fc","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":849,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:42:18.425Z","text":"所以发了也是白发","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q933012257744fb2a47fc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q65808a8aa72a4ccf823d","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":850,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:42:43.371Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]  所以为什么我说 有重磅 千万别发给律师 因为发了你这个证据就废了","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q65808a8aa72a4ccf823d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q1ac4c9cfba12f929dcb2","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":851,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:42:53.024Z","text":"你想用来翻案 不可能","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1ac4c9cfba12f929dcb2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q038942bb18d42226f614","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":852,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:43:07.667Z","text":"第三方强制令的方式 翻案还有可能","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q038942bb18d42226f614","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q6d4b29c120f37081790c","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":853,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-01-28T22:43:40.578Z","text":"早不良心发现，晚不良心发现，突然直接，一夜之间，一大群人良心发现。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc32303007c999168db3e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6d4b29c120f37081790c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc32303007c999168db3e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qa3d5a3b7f70cd8bf87c4","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":854,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:48:18.102Z","text":"用简单的一句话： 不正常 是有代价的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1bf27e3c3df401b0348e","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa3d5a3b7f70cd8bf87c4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qbc1c1b38c77777f9f778","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":855,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:50:23.992Z","text":"所以律师只是用来打延期","edited":false,"reply_to":"qdac4a9640c7241dd3b53","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbc1c1b38c77777f9f778","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qf8feee15d5d5baa9998a","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":856,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:50:32.125Z","text":"延期可以用","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf8feee15d5d5baa9998a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qb5c5d8740ba7c7690c2a","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":857,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:52:12.995Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb5c5d8740ba7c7690c2a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q48d00dccb7b8b284e925","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":858,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:52:19.231Z","text":"全部污染","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q48d00dccb7b8b284e925","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q7c4219daa5b65966af21","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":859,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:52:20.857Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7c4219daa5b65966af21","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q95658331a8c19f50f0a5","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":860,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:52:22.493Z","text":"完蛋了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q95658331a8c19f50f0a5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qefb5b19e83a00b2a7e8a","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":861,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:52:33.381Z","text":"他们是想让老郭 牢底坐穿","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qefb5b19e83a00b2a7e8a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qc9437361ad939bca9b68","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":862,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:52:47.005Z","text":"他们这一招 就是习近平的 引蛇出洞","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc9437361ad939bca9b68","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qeaaef2dc50841546084a","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":863,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:53:01.063Z","text":"看看还有哪些可以让老郭无罪的证据","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeaaef2dc50841546084a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q58aa213bf53336d3de3a","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":864,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:53:02.759Z","text":"全部污染","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q58aa213bf53336d3de3a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q99c307fb366f919b2642","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":865,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:53:07.676Z","text":"可以的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q99c307fb366f919b2642","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q8b96699721175317fdc0","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":866,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:55:34.449Z","text":"一、证据来源和激励方式的风险\n    1.    组织动员性质明显\n    •    文中明确提到“青藤鼓动大家给律师发的”，甚至列举了几位重点人物名字。\n    •    法院会把这种行为当作“统一组织推动”，尤其是针对已经在案卷中的案件。\n    2.    可能被认定为“程序操纵”\n    •    如果法院认为这些信件不是自然产生的，而是经过协调、统一时间、统一目的地发送的，法官可能直接拒绝采纳。\n    •    原因是：这属于人为干预司法程序，甚至有“证据污染”嫌疑。\n    3.    内容本身的真实性不容易核查\n    •    信中提到“被警察强迫写假投诉信、告状信、还款信”，这些属于境外陈述、难以核实。\n    •    如果证据来源于境外，法官会担心无法对真实性和独立性进行检验。\n\n⸻\n\n二、法律上潜在问题\n    1.    证据可采性风险\n    •    在刑事程序里，证据必须可靠、独立、可核查。\n    •    统一指令下发送的证据，法官有理由质疑其可靠性，尤其是在量刑或翻案阶段。\n    2.    可能触发伪证/作假证据指控\n    •    文中提醒“提供虚假证据可能被追究”，这说明风险已经显现。\n    •    如果有人夸大、误报甚至被误导参与，这可能让他们本人承担刑事责任，不仅影响案子，也可能反噬团队。\n    3.    程序风险\n    •    §853(n) 是第三方财产权利主张，但必须独立、真实、可核查。\n    •    如果法院认为这些信件是“有组织的统一催交”，可能拒绝立案或驳回。\n\n⸻\n\n三、战略性分析\n    •    对老郭翻案不利的因素\n    1.    时间集中（1/20之后突然出现） → 易被认定为“人为推动”\n    2.    指令来源明确（青藤） → 法院可能认定证据被“污染”\n    3.    内容极具主观色彩、境外陈述 → 法院采信难度大\n    •    潜在利好\n    •    如果律师能够独立筛选、去掉所有组织动员痕迹，只保留可验证、真实的受害者陈述，仍可能对翻案有帮助。\n    •    但前提是必须律师处理，绝对不能直接提交法院。\n\n⸻\n\n四、结论\n\n这是高风险、高敏感度的证据操作，青藤鼓动大家集中给律师发信，对法院来说几乎是“红色警告”。\n    •    法院可能作废这些信件，认为受污染。\n    •    法律上可能触发伪证/作假证据指控。\n    •    翻案或量刑参考价值取决于律师是否能独立去脏化、筛选真实可核查材料。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8b96699721175317fdc0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qe575a72d45d7f882a2fd","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":867,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:55:43.110Z","text":"［用户 beg***］  全部污染 全部完蛋","edited":true,"reply_to":"q8b96699721175317fdc0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe575a72d45d7f882a2fd","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8b96699721175317fdc0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qcdb70c9d52ea06e9c51c","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":868,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:55:58.487Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息] 青藤这招打出去 如果没有我们 老郭牢底坐穿","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcdb70c9d52ea06e9c51c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q75fc99b3ef57d8a13202","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":869,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:57:54.811Z","text":"现在所有重磅证据全都污染了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q75fc99b3ef57d8a13202","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q8ff99a84c98cfd667225","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":870,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T22:57:58.179Z","text":"凉凉了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8ff99a84c98cfd667225","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q1ec40f4d9ac97dbb6720","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":871,"speaker":"mia***","date":"2026-01-28T22:58:02.101Z","text":"郝海东这个棋子给青藤联盟背书，他们很信","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3761fa635ade467b830e","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1ec40f4d9ac97dbb6720","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q67506bbc903ddadc2535","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":872,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-01-28T23:00:15.723Z","text":"那盖儿的6千呢？ 不也都是联盟组织的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q67506bbc903ddadc2535","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q9612c59fd086353147a6","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":873,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-01-28T23:01:02.617Z","text":"为什么盖儿的能被采纳？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9612c59fd086353147a6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q681e607b2f52e0a95b1b","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":874,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T23:01:19.930Z","text":"因为盖尔是害老郭的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9612c59fd086353147a6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q681e607b2f52e0a95b1b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9612c59fd086353147a6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q59073b95cd421a499861","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":875,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T23:01:23.654Z","text":"法官也是","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q59073b95cd421a499861","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q92f99a8a206b517d163d","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":876,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T23:01:28.419Z","text":"都是一伙的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q92f99a8a206b517d163d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qcc814f706adb590294de","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":877,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-01-28T23:06:56.617Z","text":"我觉得， 最重要的是那134个给法庭写虚假陈述的；如果他们当中大部分人反悔，剩下的就好办了。\n\n盖儿6千\n数字银行100多\n这些人被用来定罪的根基本来就不可靠\nluc的1千多，也不可靠\n\n这134个人，可能都在luc的1千多里/重复的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcc814f706adb590294de","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q8e89e58e3e25499e2186","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":878,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T23:07:36.582Z","text":"都没用了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcc814f706adb590294de","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8e89e58e3e25499e2186","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcc814f706adb590294de","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qe91157e5c816f150bec2","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":879,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T23:07:47.178Z","text":"现在有用的只有我们这里","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe91157e5c816f150bec2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q1b4776fe9a54cc29987d","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":880,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T23:07:51.142Z","text":"其他什么都没了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1b4776fe9a54cc29987d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q3dba6e6780fe618b3504","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":881,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T23:18:45.777Z","text":"青藤是毁灭证据 嫌疑","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3dba6e6780fe618b3504","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qff72c4605abdb646103c","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":882,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-01-28T23:19:30.919Z","text":"那个资助骚乱的印度人常驻上海的，就是共匪背景，通过他不也一样可以在美国司法系统搞共产党？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qff72c4605abdb646103c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q58f742a253d18758659a","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":883,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-01-28T23:20:33.423Z","text":"老郭在里面3年，严重影响了灭共速度 -","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q58f742a253d18758659a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qfdf0c05217874cb10c8d","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":884,"speaker":"mia***","date":"2026-01-28T23:21:38.265Z","text":"你怎么就不明白，不从司法上把共产党的钱冻结，灭共很难","edited":false,"reply_to":"q58f742a253d18758659a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfdf0c05217874cb10c8d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q58f742a253d18758659a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q91536d6cc66afb2ea365","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":885,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T23:21:46.525Z","text":"你说的是[删节：成员身份]？","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q91536d6cc66afb2ea365","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q0278638b011558fbd0cd","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":886,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T23:22:03.168Z","text":"哦哦","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0278638b011558fbd0cd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q5601278fe0887fb527eb","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":887,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T23:50:52.625Z","text":"他动员他人给律师提供证据\n    •    他鼓动战友、投资者、第三方提供证据，尤其是明确给被告律师。\n    •    这种行为具有组织性、集中性，可能导致：\n    1.    证据来源高度集中，缺乏独立性。\n    2.    战友提供证据时可能受到暗示或引导（例如夸大事实、整理语言、统一口径）。\n    3.    本来独立的证据链被“混入偏向化/操纵化信息”，难以区分哪些是真实的。\n\n⸻\n\n3️⃣ 为什么法院可能认为这是证据污染\n    •    刑事案件中，法院要求证据独立性、可靠性。\n    •    如果大量受害者被系统性动员去给律师提供证据，法院可能认为：\n    •    证据不再是自然产生的证据，而是人为制造的、为了影响案件结果的证据。\n    •    这种情况下，法院可能削弱、排除或严格筛查这些证据。\n    •    对于 Tony 的强制令，尤其是第三方权利（853(n)）相关证据，这种“集中动员证据”可能间接破坏独立证据链，让法院难以判断真实权利。\n\n⸻\n\n4️⃣ 总结\n    •    是的，这种行为属于典型的证据污染风险。\n    •    关键点：\n    1.    青藤本身是利益相关方（受害者）\n    2.    他鼓动大量人提交证据给被告律师\n    3.    证据来源高度集中，可能缺乏独立性\n    4.    法院可能因此拒绝采信、严格审查或限制使用\n\n⸻\n\n💡 注意：\n    •    证据污染不等于证据全部作废，但可信度大幅下降，尤其是涉及翻案或强制令时。\n    •    独立、早期、未受动员影响的证据才最具权威性。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5601278fe0887fb527eb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q366ec2d110cf59c38259","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":888,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T23:51:08.010Z","text":"青藤涉嫌污染 操控证据","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5601278fe0887fb527eb","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q366ec2d110cf59c38259","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5601278fe0887fb527eb","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qa07a8d7ad7bd7d8c6bb3","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":889,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-28T23:51:13.840Z","text":"干扰司法 藐视法庭","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa07a8d7ad7bd7d8c6bb3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qdbd5a7f6cad423ba49e2","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":890,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T00:02:57.893Z","text":"不过青藤这样搞 也没啥什么严重的坏处 只是战略上 原本老郭有翻案的底牌 现在没了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdbd5a7f6cad423ba49e2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q7a089c9a5633b9b050cf","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":891,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T00:03:20.720Z","text":"也不能说没了 是遭到污染","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7a089c9a5633b9b050cf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qb1cb51666b3c28131ffc","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":892,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T00:07:07.699Z","text":"［用户 pz0***］ 你怎么看","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb1cb51666b3c28131ffc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q75a9246f85268abffdf8","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":893,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-01-29T00:51:00.494Z","text":"请问高法回电话讨论什么事情，这些通话是不是把cert写好了就不会有？我的关切是，这些通话是必然有的程序步骤，而我英语能力不行，我去最高法提交cert，走到最高法这一步，由于英语能力不行，程序都卡住了。理论上的立案都变得不可能，那我就没必要考虑cert了。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q73a6ca068d14d20c9011","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q75a9246f85268abffdf8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q73a6ca068d14d20c9011","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q6a335ffce79f1cdc3e9c","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":894,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-01-29T01:12:31.986Z","text":"如果法官认同检方的这种说辞，那庭审那些污点证人的证言也应该全部不算，不可能就这么堂而皇之的，共谋犯的言行被告不利的就采信，对被告有利的就不采信。共谋犯组织索赔明显是rico欺诈行为的延续，但共谋犯组织人们给被告提供有利的证据，这些证据是为了推翻指控，不仅可以推翻对被告的指控，也可以推翻检方说它们是共谋犯的指控，这再正当不过。当然它们的目的是污染，但实际上正确的操作是，它们会安排一些虚假证据进去，让检方说，有理由怀疑其它也被污染。但在庭审中，辩方提出过反过来的类似的推导，法官明确了不能这样推论，不能说证人a和b都被中共威胁，证人a是被中共威胁下报了假案，就说证人b对被告的不利证言可能受中共影响。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qdbd5a7f6cad423ba49e2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6a335ffce79f1cdc3e9c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdbd5a7f6cad423ba49e2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qeb6875543104b732d126","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":895,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T02:43:07.056Z","text":"老郭律师也不傻 Investor/customer 点出是投资者/顾客 而且以前“不知道”(重点）\n老郭律师785已经说了 他们知道的853n （投资者/顾客）就100多 登记受害者也就200多 \n那6000的定位 检方辩方在争\n\n同样的盖尔6000人\n之前检方认定是 thousands of victims 法官也认了\n现在又去辩方那声称investor 法官认不认呢","edited":false,"reply_to":"qecc8d386cca115cd9000","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeb6875543104b732d126","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q22a5fb0856fd38482dd8","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":896,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T02:54:42.840Z","text":"是不是能CRVA发动议 要求审查这些声称 investor/customer的身份\n没收时 投资者就该发claim 索赔\n证明钱是我的不是郭的\n\n这批人大概率是被盖尔代理了\n如果有证据 投资证明 显示投资发生在犯罪crime（郭“洗钱”罪 也就是老班长转钱时候）之前\n那么这批人 就该被定义是853n 而不是只看盖尔的代理身份（之前的投资证据 在盖尔那里被截留 法官看不到 只能听盖尔一面之词）","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q22a5fb0856fd38482dd8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qcff88beca38fffe0c241","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":897,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-01-29T03:28:49.079Z","text":"一、辩护团队的第一反应\n如果辩护律师在短时间内突然收到大量所谓“受害人”发来的、对被告有利的邮件，而此前从未与这些人有过任何接触，这在律师看来是风险信号，而不是好消息。\n辩护团队通常会立刻自问：\n为什么是现在？\n为什么是集中出现？\n是否有人在组织或协调？\n这些人到底是真正的受害人、投资人、财产所有人，还是其他身份？\n是否与共谋者、中间人或组织者存在关联？\n这种情形会引发高度怀疑。\n二、辩护律师必须评估的核心问题\n（一）真实性与独立性\n辩护律师会重点审查：\n陈述是否存在统一模板或相似措辞\n内容是否明显经过统一编排\n是否有第三方组织或指挥这些提交\n即便内容属实，只要存在明显协调，可信度也会被严重削弱。\n（二）证据“污染”或“瑕疵”风险\n如果出现以下任何迹象：\n共谋者鼓动这些人联系律师\n有人声称这是被告要求的\n邮件通过组织者或中介转达\n那么这些材料在诉讼意义上就可能被视为被污染的证据。\n辩护律师必须避免被指控为：\n塑造证人\n非正式渠道收集证据\n间接妨碍司法或操纵证据\n（三）披露与程序义务\n一旦辩护律师收到这些材料：\n其内容可能成为可披露材料\n一旦使用，可能必须向检方披露\n可能引发额外的交叉询问\n可能引起检方对来源与背景的调查\n未经核实的材料，往往弊大于利。\n三、辩护律师会不会使用这些证据？\n最常见做法：\n不会直接使用。\n更可能的处理方式包括：\n仅内部保存，不提交法院\n抽样核查少数个案\n寻找独立、外部的佐证\n只在与既有证据一致时谨慎参考\n提炼“观点方向”，而非引用具体陈述\n通常会避免的做法：\n集体提交“受害人来信”\n将原始邮件作为附件提交\n在量刑阶段以“受害人意见”形式呈现\n用来反驳犯罪事实或主观故意\n集中、协调的材料往往适得其反。\n四、如果辩护方真的依赖这些材料的风险\n若辩护律师使用这些邮件，而后来被发现存在：\n协调组织\n受害人身份不实\n共谋者介入\n与被告存在直接或间接联系的动员\n可能导致：\n证据被法院忽略或排除\n法官在量刑时产生不信任\n辩护整体可信度受损\n甚至引发对妨碍司法或证人影响的调查（即便非故意）\n五、现实结论\n辩护律师不会轻信。\n更常见的是：\n将其视为高风险材料\n在未彻底核查前不予使用\n更偏好独立、早已存在、非协调来源的证据\n在很多情况下，不使用反而更安全","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcff88beca38fffe0c241","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qf309e1e0ab65e2ab541c","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":898,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T03:30:18.192Z","text":"律师不蠢 这些证据不能用了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcff88beca38fffe0c241","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf309e1e0ab65e2ab541c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcff88beca38fffe0c241","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qc662888a93fb805e334c","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":899,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T03:30:39.387Z","text":"/政府（检方） 785 要求审 100多第三方853n （和政府抢钱的）\n/辩方789 其实是要审查这6000 “受害者”\n/然后“受害者”青出手 其实是步险棋 \n本意是污染6000“受害者”成“共谋”\n但他的隐患是 这6000里面的觉醒者 \n1 取消代理 \n2 绕过辩方(不联系郭律师）当第三方CRVA（不当853n)\n我本来就被法官当成“受害者”现在我觉得代理律师盖尔做的不好 我可以学郭 炒掉盖尔 继续当“受害者”上庭\n我在庭上的证据链 一直是“受害者” 之前有代理 现在我不要了 我以CRVA发动议 提交投资证明 要把郭往死里判（之前投资证明在盖尔那儿 法官也看不到）\n法官 辩方自然要回应 辩方才有“理由”审这些投资证明（而不是直接给辩方 是通过法庭文件 给他）","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc662888a93fb805e334c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q079cf7f1b7d6e4ec6723","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":900,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T03:37:54.001Z","text":"［用户 him***］  因为789文件 律师说了 有假报案的","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q079cf7f1b7d6e4ec6723","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qa0a69abc994656712c8b","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":901,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T03:38:13.654Z","text":"青藤怕有人真的把重磅证据发给律师","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa0a69abc994656712c8b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qc38b87ddbc5823aa27be","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":902,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T03:38:26.139Z","text":"所以他主动出手 先下手为强 全部污染！！！","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc38b87ddbc5823aa27be","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q3f59959dbf828f84c746","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":903,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T03:38:56.896Z","text":"797辩方也在暗示 证据要 绕圈子 给他 才行 不然算污染 他只能视而不见","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa0a69abc994656712c8b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3f59959dbf828f84c746","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa0a69abc994656712c8b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qb04f937a2ffeaf9d1d2a","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":904,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T03:41:28.786Z","text":"所以 全部污染","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3f59959dbf828f84c746","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb04f937a2ffeaf9d1d2a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3f59959dbf828f84c746","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q537b34caaed503cbb8d3","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":905,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T03:41:39.445Z","text":"Investor customer （辩方的信号）\n目前被认定的6000 victim\n真实身份应该是投资者\n辩方知道 但是证据被青 盖尔压住了 到不了法庭\n他不能直接引用目前“受害者”给的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q537b34caaed503cbb8d3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q00a8357a8107e9447ea7","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":906,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T03:43:28.718Z","text":"6000人里 先取消代理 再继续以“受害者”发CRVA 附上投资证明 要求判500年 辩方就要回应","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q00a8357a8107e9447ea7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q605fded0a2940bc47bc6","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":907,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T03:44:35.681Z","text":"青藤涉嫌污染证据 干扰司法罪","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q605fded0a2940bc47bc6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q2a1c8c96bfb3dd11dd5c","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":908,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T03:46:51.967Z","text":"可以看青最近直播 很少上镜 他心里明白 自己现在的定位 是 死士\n所以苍天 老江湖 赶快跑 被骂总比丢命强","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2a1c8c96bfb3dd11dd5c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q8b8b69731055bf6cc65d","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":909,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T03:58:44.692Z","text":"⸻\n\n一句话抓重点（法官视角）\n\n“1月20日之后，突然涌入大量此前完全未知的投资者陈述，需要时间审查。”\n\n在刑事没收 + 量刑节点，这句话本身就会触发法院的警觉机制。\n\n⸻\n\n关键句逐条解析\n\n🔴 1️⃣ “following the court appearance on January 20, 2026”\n\n👉 时间锚点非常致命\n    •    律师主动点名：\n证据/陈述不是自然持续收到的\n而是在一次公开 hearing 之后集中爆发\n    •    法官一看就会想到三件事：\n    1.    是否存在 动员 / 串联\n    2.    是否受 庭审言论、直播、外部组织影响\n    3.    是否与 853 / forfeiture 利益直接挂钩\n\n⚠️ 这已经是“污染风险时间窗”的典型描述。\n\n⸻\n\n🔴 2️⃣ “inundated with statements”\n\n👉 这是一个非常重的词\n    •    inundated = 被“淹没”\n    •    在律师写给法官的信里，这不是中性词，而是在说：\n    •    数量异常\n    •    节奏异常\n    •    处理压力异常\n\n法官潜台词会是：\n\n“如果证据本身是干净、有序、独立的，为什么会‘被淹没’？”\n\n⸻\n\n🔴 3️⃣ “from investors and customers previously unknown to us”\n\n👉 这是最接近“证据污染暗示”的一句\n\n律师在说三层意思：\n    1.    此前从未出现过\n    2.    不是原始调查对象\n    3.    不是既有证据链的一部分\n\n在刑事程序里，这等于告诉法官：\n\n这些不是自然延伸的证据，而是“新进入系统的变量”。\n\n这一步，法院会自动提高证据可信度门槛。\n\n⸻\n\n🔴 4️⃣ “whose perspectives bear directly on the issues at hand”\n\n👉 这句话是律师的自保盾牌\n\n意思是：\n    •    我们承认这些陈述可能有用\n    •    但必须仔细筛选\n    •    所以请求延期\n\n翻译成程序语言就是：\n\n“它们有潜在价值，但目前未经验证，不可直接使用。”\n\n⸻\n\n他们没说但法官一定会想到的\n\n律师刻意没有说：\n    •    coerced（胁迫）\n    •    fabricated（伪造）\n    •    contaminated（污染）\n    •    coordinated（串联）\n\n但在刑事法院里，时间点 + 数量 + 来源异常\n本身就足以触发以下处理：\n    •    不作为新证据直接采信\n    •    只作为 sentencing allocution 背景材料\n    •    或完全不进入 forfeiture / 853(n) 实体审查\n\n⸻\n\n和你直觉的对应关系\n\n你之前说的👇\n\n青藤动员 → 律师被迫接收 → 证据链被破坏\n\n和这封信是完全对得上的。\n\n这封信本质是：\n\n“法官，我们这里出现了一个非正常证据涌入现象，我们需要时间防止踩雷。”\n\n⸻\n\n结论（非常重要）\n\n✅ 有没有“暗示证据被污染”？\n\n有，但属于“专业回避式暗示”\n——不定性、不指控、不点名，但已经亮黄灯。\n\n❌ 有没有“主动指控证据污染”？\n\n没有，而且律师不可能这么写。\n\n⚠️ 法官会不会因此提高警惕？\n\n一定会，而且已经足够了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8b8b69731055bf6cc65d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q46ce48bdc2a3fabfc17b","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":910,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T03:59:03.218Z","text":"律师已经说了 证据污染了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8b8b69731055bf6cc65d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q46ce48bdc2a3fabfc17b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8b8b69731055bf6cc65d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qd9b473a6d53cb8d3b800","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":911,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T04:00:23.060Z","text":"我直说结论，不绕：\n从司法程序角度看，青藤这个行为——对老郭整体是「偏有害」，而且风险不小；对个别人可能“短期看似有利”，但对翻案与没收问题是减分的。\n\n下面我把为什么拆清楚，你就知道不是情绪判断，而是程序逻辑。\n\n⸻\n\n一、先给你一张“利 / 害”速览表\n\n✔ 可能的“表面利”\n    •    律师短期多了材料\n    •    可以在量刑 / forfeiture 阶段说一句：\n“并非所有所谓受害者都自愿 / 真实”\n    •    对个别 853(n) 第三方退款，可能有用（仅限个人）\n\n⬆️ 这些都是战术级、局部级的好处\n\n⸻\n\n❌ 实质性的“系统性伤害”（重点）\n    1.    证据来源被政治化、组织化\n    2.    时间点极端不利（1月20日后）\n    3.    与没收 / 退款存在直接经济激励\n    4.    证据被迫进入“高怀疑通道”\n    5.    反而削弱了“独立受害者”的可信度\n    6.    可能连累原本干净的证据一起贬值\n\n⬇️ 这些是结构性、不可逆的伤害\n\n⸻\n\n二、为什么说对“老郭翻案”是减分？\n\n① 翻案最怕什么？\n\n最怕“看起来像被动员出来的证据”\n\n而青藤做的是：\n    •    公共场合号召\n    •    明确指向“有利于被告的叙事”\n    •    明确给出律师邮箱\n    •    明确绑定政治/运动叙事\n\n⚠️ 在法官眼里，这会被读成：\n\n“叙事先行，证据随后”\n\n这在刑事体系里是大忌。\n\n⸻\n\n② 青藤的身份非常致命\n\n你点到关键点了 👇\n\n他是登记在案的“受害者”\n\n这意味着：\n    •    他不是旁观者\n    •    他不是中立第三方\n    •    他在程序上利益与被告是对立的\n\n结果是：\n\n一个“受害者”去动员有利于被告的证据\n→ 极容易被解释为：动机复杂、角色混乱、可信度下降\n\n检方一句话就能用：\n\n“这些材料来源于一名自称受害者、却与被告阵营高度互动的人。”\n\n⸻\n\n③ 最糟糕的一点：证据被“提前定性”\n\n青藤在话术里已经做了三件事：\n    •    定性：这是“重大新证据”\n    •    定因：来自“被胁迫的假受害”\n    •    定向：用于“改变案件本质 / 有利被告”\n\n这会导致什么？\n\n法官和检方在看到证据之前\n已经有了“这是为被告服务的材料”的心理标签\n\n证据的自然力量被削弱。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd9b473a6d53cb8d3b800","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qcdb328b54f94e4741579","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":912,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T04:00:34.473Z","text":"［用户 beg***］  老郭证据被害死了","edited":true,"reply_to":"qd9b473a6d53cb8d3b800","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcdb328b54f94e4741579","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd9b473a6d53cb8d3b800","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qb4f559351632086f4dcd","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":913,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T04:00:53.006Z","text":"现在除了我们群 没人能帮老郭翻案","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb4f559351632086f4dcd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qdf3583a79f3aa75dd704","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":914,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-01-29T04:02:59.100Z","text":"我做的是强制令，因为我没有被二巡立案，没办法做cert. 做cert 必须有二巡的案件号。而且做 cert 必须打印40份，要找在美国的一家专业打印法律文件的公司。打印费大约要4000美金。而且当时我也没有案件号，人家后来都不接我的电话。\n但是你做 IFP可以不用打印40份。\n\n你从二巡没得到案件号，也只能走IFP+extraordinary mandamus途径。\n\n打电话问的事情很简单，就是问她们有没有进行初步审查和立案。打电话之前先找机器人帮你出个初稿。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q75a9246f85268abffdf8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdf3583a79f3aa75dd704","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q75a9246f85268abffdf8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q3654a0caeb0b19b8f005","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":915,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T04:35:48.554Z","text":"故意的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q71d49975c396937918f2","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3654a0caeb0b19b8f005","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q2b84f96df039518e393a","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":916,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-01-29T04:47:11.905Z","text":"cert的问题，我的ai跟我说cert比Original Mandamus更有机会，说最高法明确过这个事情，只要实际效果是一个司法裁决，就可以cert。因为你说的是对方主动打过来，是程序上必然有这一步吗？如果对方打过来，我的美国电话是虚拟号，他们打不过来，因为二巡有两次说要给我回电，然后我都没收到回电，我留本地电话，由于不是加拿大以+1开头的电话，估计最高法的书记处的座机不知开通国际电话权限没有，可能也打不进来，打进来我的语言能力也应付不了，程序无法往下推进。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qdf3583a79f3aa75dd704","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2b84f96df039518e393a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdf3583a79f3aa75dd704","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qf493c1606d287e553161","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":917,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-01-29T04:50:01.855Z","text":"Cert 属于被下级判了以后再上诉。二巡没给你立案，没有案件号，你无法做cert吧？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2b84f96df039518e393a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf493c1606d287e553161","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2b84f96df039518e393a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qc40f9085df8c05fb90ab","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":918,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-01-29T04:50:50.784Z","text":"我突然想到ai说过，ifp加cert几乎都会被认为是frivolous，可能是因为你的是Original Mandamus，所以没有拒。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2b84f96df039518e393a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc40f9085df8c05fb90ab","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2b84f96df039518e393a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q0e99f4be2dbc7039cf2b","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":919,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-01-29T04:52:43.546Z","text":"反正我问了几个ai，综合的结论是，只要行政决定的实际效果是司法裁决，cert更有机会。我这都被直接引用25-2726的判词，那就是实质上的司法裁决。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf493c1606d287e553161","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0e99f4be2dbc7039cf2b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf493c1606d287e553161","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qf1f53240b7d8c0148897","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":920,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-01-29T04:55:50.371Z","text":"我突然觉得，当初就不该发电子邮件说英语不行，无法打电话，需要电子邮件沟通。说了这个后，后面电子邮件就再没有回复过。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf1f53240b7d8c0148897","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qada6270fbebbbce00b30","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":921,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-01-29T04:58:05.051Z","text":"问题是，你根本就没有案件号，你只能走mandamus, 高法的强制令叫做特别强制令。\n你按我发的样本格式走，可能会减少被打回的次数或者机会。那个样本是高法给我的纸质的，后来我在网上也找到一模一样的PDF","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0e99f4be2dbc7039cf2b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qada6270fbebbbce00b30","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0e99f4be2dbc7039cf2b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q3e41f62c6f6c9cc7756d","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":922,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-01-29T05:45:57.163Z","text":"你第一次寄过去的是cert?","edited":false,"reply_to":"qada6270fbebbbce00b30","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3e41f62c6f6c9cc7756d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qada6270fbebbbce00b30","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q80302c3212d6910ec213","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":923,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-01-29T05:46:23.608Z","text":"还是特别强制令？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q80302c3212d6910ec213","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qd3992afc0e3286e2cc92","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":924,"speaker":"xin***","date":"2026-01-29T06:06:04.901Z","text":"离郭出狱还有多久","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd3992afc0e3286e2cc92","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qc0b40f68b27240b00b73","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":925,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T06:09:18.394Z","text":"500年","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd3992afc0e3286e2cc92","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc0b40f68b27240b00b73","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd3992afc0e3286e2cc92","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qbda0a7b6638e14e2427b","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":926,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-01-29T06:37:09.777Z","text":"两次都是强制令。第一次退回是因为没有按照他们的格式、章节来写。IFP 表格也不对。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3e41f62c6f6c9cc7756d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbda0a7b6638e14e2427b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3e41f62c6f6c9cc7756d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q17d727d7e138f01e8666","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":927,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-01-29T06:37:44.605Z","text":"谢谢。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbda0a7b6638e14e2427b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q17d727d7e138f01e8666","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbda0a7b6638e14e2427b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q76ca826ea00b04d9c245","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":928,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T06:44:04.237Z","text":"青 背后的人 这样干 也知道后果\n反过来想 说明他们现在怕的是 反水\n他们内部已经不再是铁板一块\n即使要摘桃分果子 青也可能被当垫脚石 满屁股si 臭大街了 孙中山会踩着他的尸体上去\n这步棋 一子下错 满盘皆输","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q76ca826ea00b04d9c245","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qc34e1a1a065a6b954187","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":929,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T06:54:55.609Z","text":"那帮人也是傻X 被当枪使 \n即使郭被关 青赢了 这帮人也大概率被青灭口 知道太多了\n青输了 这帮人被下一任 当作前朝遗老 还是被灭","edited":false,"reply_to":"q486b059193ff145e3b13","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc34e1a1a065a6b954187","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qf8e8b230b6ece92db20d","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":930,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-01-29T06:55:38.474Z","text":"你的英语应该是不错的。虽然当不了习近平的随身翻译，对于简单的电话对答，应该没有问题的。我猜你主要是因为英语电话打得少、心理比较紧张。其实高法的人素质都很高、他们都有过专业的职业培训、耐心是他们的第一要素。他们也一定会确保你能听懂，他们甚至都会请一个中文翻译来跟你沟通。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf1f53240b7d8c0148897","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf8e8b230b6ece92db20d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf1f53240b7d8c0148897","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q2dbc4451cc147eb22f17","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":931,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T06:59:14.952Z","text":"一帮子没文化的文盲法盲历史盲\n就这点水平 \n狡兔死 走狗烹\n飞鸟尽 良弓藏\n何况现在有暗网 丝路 黑水\n郭说的 私人雇佣兵 以为是瞎说？那是在提醒那帮傻缺 别忘了去18楼没有暗杀郭的那个顶级spy 他是要郭 要么赢 要么死 你们敢赌命？\n再参考传闻把克强灭的那几个喽啰 被升官奖励提干 然后分开骗到中东缅北当官 最后灭口","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8972474536322d152c60","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2dbc4451cc147eb22f17","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qe1e7870c75802570751e","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":932,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T07:09:35.909Z","text":"4000隐士们多传播 多考虑\nAI时代 想把个人数据挖出来 太简单\n做个网格员就好 别和青们 这帮露脸的绑太深 到时没有回头路\n赚钱路子多得很 没必要跟着他们骗 把命搭进去","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe1e7870c75802570751e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q6c1c3162c36b895283ff","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":933,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T07:13:53.924Z","text":"懂命理的 找人帮青算算\n青藤 木属性 甲辰 乙巳 已经过了\n24 25正好是他的高光时刻\n26 27 丙午丁未 又是九紫离火运 这根木头 会被烧到渣都不剩 \n而且藤火容易蔓延 烧起来会带走很多吃瓜群众（参考三国诸葛亮 火烧藤甲军 历史剧本早已经写好了 隐士们小心 非死即残）","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6c1c3162c36b895283ff","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qcb1743de818f8b0d6263","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":934,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T07:18:46.287Z","text":"那帮傻X 就是文盲法盲历史盲 故事会都看不懂\n/老杂毛不傻 风水懂得很 对青的使用 就是这两年\n接替他的人 八字早算好了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcb1743de818f8b0d6263","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q483a210423ef8ff9a66b","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":935,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T07:34:24.875Z","text":"会看面相的 \nQmay AVA 飞飞 小草 小屁酱 佳佳 对比下几年前和现在 哪个不是面相扭曲了\n都是后面有督战队拿🔪盯着 必须出来讲话 陷得深 没法回头了 要么被灭口 要么遣返给习大神 没得选","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q483a210423ef8ff9a66b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qbfe8e9b63b945bc18461","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":936,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T07:41:32.765Z","text":"冒出来的投资人就是响应联盟号召的吧","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe6ee67c3eeb41bb1566f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbfe8e9b63b945bc18461","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe6ee67c3eeb41bb1566f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qed1d0c9970b1f23b7db3","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":937,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T07:41:39.907Z","text":"是","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbfe8e9b63b945bc18461","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qed1d0c9970b1f23b7db3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbfe8e9b63b945bc18461","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qba97109ff701b08d38b5","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":938,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T07:46:35.649Z","text":"这群人会被当作共谋犯吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qed1d0c9970b1f23b7db3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qba97109ff701b08d38b5","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qed1d0c9970b1f23b7db3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q18f17e4a065c776505ac","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":939,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T07:52:10.312Z","text":"嫌疑","edited":false,"reply_to":"qba97109ff701b08d38b5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q18f17e4a065c776505ac","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qba97109ff701b08d38b5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q690601d3d6403fe64b37","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":940,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T07:52:23.428Z","text":"但他们这些动作就是污染证据","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q690601d3d6403fe64b37","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q971984ad603bd746302e","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":941,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T07:52:36.045Z","text":"这帮[屏蔽词]不搞死老郭不拉到啊","edited":true,"reply_to":"q8b96699721175317fdc0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q971984ad603bd746302e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8b96699721175317fdc0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qcd7614bb9f8556e13fc3","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":942,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T07:54:34.421Z","text":"这次看律师怎么做，就能看出来律师的角色了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd7614bb9f8556e13fc3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q4572011b0bab16e610c9","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":943,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T08:01:57.204Z","text":"律师要有骨气 就让青藤听证 为什么要组织发这个","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcd7614bb9f8556e13fc3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4572011b0bab16e610c9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd7614bb9f8556e13fc3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q2be564874b7d1b058896","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":944,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T08:04:26.461Z","text":"律师不知道是青藤组织的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4572011b0bab16e610c9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2be564874b7d1b058896","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4572011b0bab16e610c9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q47cc0177105a2be76629","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":945,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T08:06:24.842Z","text":"律师一问便知","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2be564874b7d1b058896","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q47cc0177105a2be76629","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2be564874b7d1b058896","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qb8404015a95aeb2bac66","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":946,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-01-29T08:06:26.832Z","text":"律师根本就不知道怎么回事啊！","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4572011b0bab16e610c9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb8404015a95aeb2bac66","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4572011b0bab16e610c9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qa8f119a3bee1e87bbd46","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":947,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-01-29T08:06:38.586Z","text":"问谁啊？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa8f119a3bee1e87bbd46","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q584bd1c10082bb50c169","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":948,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T08:06:48.675Z","text":"这些人不会实话，肯定照着青藤教的说","edited":false,"reply_to":"q47cc0177105a2be76629","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q584bd1c10082bb50c169","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q47cc0177105a2be76629","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qc27683e125242146ba3f","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":949,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-01-29T08:07:08.846Z","text":"没有任何证据，问联系律师的人，合适啊？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc27683e125242146ba3f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qe6ba25d3f869937b83dc","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":950,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T08:07:12.105Z","text":"我跟瑞恩说说？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe6ba25d3f869937b83dc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q83b107755b9def1704d5","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":951,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T08:07:48.320Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息] 我操 我今天看了你的docket","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q83b107755b9def1704d5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qde5447fe678188d4bdaa","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":952,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T08:07:49.378Z","text":"该出手了，不过这个算不算程序问题","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe6ba25d3f869937b83dc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qde5447fe678188d4bdaa","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe6ba25d3f869937b83dc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qa1575217ef83c9c925ce","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":953,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T08:08:07.278Z","text":"三个地址","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa1575217ef83c9c925ce","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q420d00ff32b33595c039","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":954,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T08:08:40.074Z","text":"我正在跟书记官谈这个事","edited":false,"reply_to":"q83b107755b9def1704d5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q420d00ff32b33595c039","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q83b107755b9def1704d5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qa924c431f3fd21ee1d58","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":955,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T08:09:46.882Z","text":"点你的名字进去","edited":false,"reply_to":"qae9af4dbe40ba541f7cd","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa924c431f3fd21ee1d58","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q66b0119173bd0e3fdec4","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":956,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T08:09:49.516Z","text":"有三个人","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q66b0119173bd0e3fdec4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qb7976e3df79dc677d5d3","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":957,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T08:09:53.233Z","text":"对方律师","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb7976e3df79dc677d5d3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q59a2f8b4a48977bb7b31","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":958,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T08:09:55.037Z","text":"三个地址","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q59a2f8b4a48977bb7b31","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qeca55e217060ec72c549","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":959,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T08:09:55.148Z","text":"三个律师那没有地址","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeca55e217060ec72c549","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q666721e71211ac2575b5","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":960,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T08:10:03.751Z","text":"现在有地址啦？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q666721e71211ac2575b5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q93f45b5d50b5c4db7efd","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":961,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T08:10:10.720Z","text":"一直都有","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q93f45b5d50b5c4db7efd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qca50c80ff0f6b1440924","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":962,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T08:10:15.017Z","text":"要点你名字","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qca50c80ff0f6b1440924","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q92bc2fd5bc6fcd3b8dce","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":963,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T08:11:43.073Z","text":"一直不太会用pacer","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mub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还要毁“资产所有权”相关的证据 不让辩方用\n那6000的投资时间 都在crime之前  853n A 最差也是B \n盖尔的代理 让这批证据上不了法庭\n再被青一封 remission 钉死853i","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1f414287864e0cf028ae","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd4887b4568025313f2cd","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1f414287864e0cf028ae","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qb06f5963cfac7cefbe33","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":967,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T08:42:25.789Z","text":"那得看律师到底是什么角色，如果跟检方穿一条裤子，那就完犊子了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q6bc868e19b3ebb4930b0","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb06f5963cfac7cefbe33","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qa32a8856843ea1c8c2ff","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":968,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T08:48:57.562Z","text":"应该没啥意义了，发动议只能是把这些投资人被联盟组织行动爆出来，这也对被告不利，同时这群人的身份同样也会被污染，","edited":false,"reply_to":"q22a5fb0856fd38482dd8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa32a8856843ea1c8c2ff","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q22a5fb0856fd38482dd8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qc168c44c5155943f885a","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":969,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T08:49:57.561Z","text":"能不能换个角度，以这个事情指出联盟农场故意误导投资者，妨碍司法，干扰案件？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc168c44c5155943f885a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qcb1b129b7496d73f4d85","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":970,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T08:50:41.559Z","text":"跟🐦的315前是0分一个套路","edited":false,"reply_to":"q05c81cf655ce31107dc5","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcb1b129b7496d73f4d85","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qb31ec8bef6a0add6959d","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":971,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T08:54:10.217Z","text":"身份是853n的可不可以给辩方律师写信，拿出证据证明这次写信是共谋犯联盟农场故意组织的，是对投资人的误导，目的是污染对被告有利的证据？ [删节：隐私信息] 你还是853吧，还有谁是","edited":true,"reply_to":"qcff88beca38fffe0c241","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb31ec8bef6a0add6959d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcff88beca38fffe0c241","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q058855aebdc2ec4f466a","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":972,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-01-29T09:01:05.431Z","text":"一、核心结论（先给你定心丸）\n\n✅ 原则上：可以写信\n\n❌ 但不能“随便写”，更不能用“指控共谋/阴谋”的方式写\n\n你现在的身份是潜在的 §853(n) 第三方权利人（third-party claimant），\n不是被告、不是证人、也不是辩方当事人。\n\n👉 这决定了：\n你可以提交“事实澄清型沟通”，\n但不能进行“指控性、定性性、动机性指控”。\n\n⸻\n\n二、你“想写的那种信”，哪里有风险？\n\n你刚才用的表述里，有几颗红雷区我必须点出来：\n\n❌「共谋犯联盟农场故意组织」\n❌「目的是污染」\n❌「误导法院 / 辩方」\n\n这些词 一旦直接写给辩方律师，风险包括：\n    1.    被当成不当接触（improper contact）\n    2.    被辩方转交法庭，说你在试图影响程序\n    3.    反过来削弱你“中立第三方权利人”的形象\n    4.    在极端情况下，被贴上“干扰司法”的标签（哪怕你是对的）\n\n⚠️ 这是很多 pro se 当事人最容易踩的坑。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb31ec8bef6a0add6959d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q058855aebdc2ec4f466a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb31ec8bef6a0add6959d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q730dc89a16f55c803438","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":973,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T09:01:45.960Z","text":"体制内根本没有战友","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0c6e6b2a8aa4e991ab68","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q730dc89a16f55c803438","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q29da2ced55f19898dcf1","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":974,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T09:01:58.127Z","text":"如果有的话 郭文贵早就出来了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q29da2ced55f19898dcf1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qf67e4c49bcf29906aed6","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":975,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-01-29T09:02:36.597Z","text":"他们每个人表现都是100分，灭爆组长非常满意","edited":false,"reply_to":"q29da2ced55f19898dcf1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf67e4c49bcf29906aed6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q29da2ced55f19898dcf1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q96e05eba1b5ea2579e3d","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":976,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-29T09:02:44.056Z","text":"哈哈","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q96e05eba1b5ea2579e3d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q379e6016e91edd6dbafa","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":977,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T09:04:36.223Z","text":"这帮[屏蔽词]，给法官写信，各种填表，现在又去给辩方律师写信，造孽啊","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q379e6016e91edd6dbafa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q6a05908dcd91d15344d4","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":978,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T09:05:19.492Z","text":"老郭现在肯定觉得他的5%过于乐观了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6a05908dcd91d15344d4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q27ebcf1bfc11e288d94d","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":979,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T09:15:22.606Z","text":"把这里面的 853n 换成CRVA （不要钱的螺丝哥）如何？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q058855aebdc2ec4f466a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q27ebcf1bfc11e288d94d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q058855aebdc2ec4f466a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q2bc21968e6ebfb1aae7f","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":980,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T09:25:33.671Z","text":"受害者肯定不能主动联系辩方","edited":false,"reply_to":"q27ebcf1bfc11e288d94d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2bc21968e6ebfb1aae7f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q27ebcf1bfc11e288d94d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q0a0e9667881ffafccdb0","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":981,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T09:27:29.207Z","text":"胡被驾走有谁出来拦着了？更何况一个小小的郭文贵","edited":false,"reply_to":"q730dc89a16f55c803438","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0a0e9667881ffafccdb0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q730dc89a16f55c803438","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q7667b79717831a6296dd","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":982,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T09:33:16.974Z","text":"说错了 螺丝哥CVRA南区发动议 \n就指明这帮6000人和辩方 是共谋 \n要求辩方公布所谓“有利证据”（Brady) 剔除这帮“受害者”的remission资格（青的心愿 螺丝哥帮他说出来）\n这些证据里 如果有能证明“投资所有权”（853n) 的资料\n这个时候群里第三方853n 就可以指控这些“受害者” 身份造假 传唤盖尔 让他交 投资数据 审查投资时间 是crime 前 还是后","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7667b79717831a6296dd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qe35f639ef7dc1f995023","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":983,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T09:59:02.304Z","text":"应该可以，反正都走到这一步了，这些人的证据都已经废了，想想怎么变废为宝","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7667b79717831a6296dd","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe35f639ef7dc1f995023","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7667b79717831a6296dd","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q19a47e441038720f048c","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":984,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T09:59:30.392Z","text":"不过螺丝已经在二巡了，最好还是没上过二巡的Cvra提交给南区更好，两周后直接二巡，但是传唤[删节：成员身份] 已经在二巡提过了，不知道会不会驳回","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q19a47e441038720f048c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q173d179b625e2cb9c7e6","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":985,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-01-29T10:01:16.648Z","text":"[删节：成员身份]瑞恩的强制令有传唤luc 吗","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q173d179b625e2cb9c7e6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qd17289d7aff6328d3ef3","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":986,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-01-29T13:04:42.788Z","text":"853n","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb31ec8bef6a0add6959d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd17289d7aff6328d3ef3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb31ec8bef6a0add6959d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q9affedd5987442f8e2f9","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":987,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T13:29:51.294Z","text":"目的是改叙事\n/把 盖尔6000人remission“受害者”的逻辑改过来 变成“资产拥有者(投资者)”\n/因为这部分人是“投资”早于crime 所以有“资产所有权 ” (钱是我的 不是郭的 政府凭什么没收forfeiture )\n只是因为一页被误导的减免remission填表 被代理律师盖尔做成853i“受害者” (投资明细 盖尔那里有 但是不在法庭上）\n/辩方把所谓“受害者”的“资产所有权”证明材料 放到法庭上 法官和政府(检方) 不能继续装瞎 说资产是郭的吧？\n/同样道理 只要认定一例 也就顺势可以怀疑 盖尔代理的6000人 身份错认 要变成“资产拥有者”\n/当 “受害者”转换成第三方“资产拥有者” 他们联系辩方律师 天经地义 是完整证据链 而且不存在污染\n/这样叙事就变了 联盟农场 不是帮郭洗钱 而是偷这6000“资产拥有者”的钱","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe35f639ef7dc1f995023","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9affedd5987442f8e2f9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe35f639ef7dc1f995023","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q0b916b65932dfb2efe22","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":988,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T13:56:20.546Z","text":"辩方不方便使用收到的这些材料 \n螺丝哥可以南区发CRVA动议 认为辩方和所谓“受害者”合谋 要求辩方必须披露(最好能有投资数据 证明资产拥有权 早于crime 证明资产不是郭的）","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0b916b65932dfb2efe22","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qecacc0242dfd436ce581","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":989,"speaker":"yyy***","date":"2026-01-29T14:07:53.448Z","text":"起诉书定义的犯罪开始时间很早的，我感觉很难依靠购买时间早于犯罪时间这一条，所以很多动议都在强调善意购买者这一条，或者先走A，不行再走B","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0b916b65932dfb2efe22","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qecacc0242dfd436ce581","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0b916b65932dfb2efe22","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qa954160ea53bbabba7da","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":990,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T14:16:36.183Z","text":"那就还是要追 最早的钱\n有钱 才有犯罪\n最早犯罪时间 是买lady may 吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qecacc0242dfd436ce581","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa954160ea53bbabba7da","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qecacc0242dfd436ce581","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q84429b8422053251052c","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":991,"speaker":"yyy***","date":"2026-01-29T14:23:21.807Z","text":"具体时间记不清了，你看最早一版起诉书，里面说了犯罪从何时开始的。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa954160ea53bbabba7da","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q84429b8422053251052c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa954160ea53bbabba7da","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q07b32f7e8d7cc7242faa","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":992,"speaker":"yyy***","date":"2026-01-29T14:28:15.305Z","text":"本群的853 出现在dock之前，那些律师代理的853都在说：“不知情、支付了对价、善意购买者.” 好像只有一个人的853好歹为老郭说了一句：“他没有恶意”，其它的853要么打扮成完全不知情，要么踩老郭一脚。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q07b32f7e8d7cc7242faa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qefcf595cc2c57335e7f4","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":993,"speaker":"yyy***","date":"2026-01-29T14:33:47.461Z","text":"就像螺丝所说，托大人可能只会认定卖车的853，还有可能打扮的完全不知情且踩老郭的算是853，其他853都驳回。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qefcf595cc2c57335e7f4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q12069b2b67ce62cc5545","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":994,"speaker":"yyy***","date":"2026-01-29T14:34:30.916Z","text":"如何破局？唯有程序不正义。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q12069b2b67ce62cc5545","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q26fe4d66b3cc1962bd96","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":995,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T14:38:21.541Z","text":"/很多人没明白逻辑\n/强调 善意购买 就进了法庭 检方先“定罪”后“没收(forfeiture)”的套(通过定罪 把不属于郭的 G系列喜交所资产 强行按在 郭头上)\n/再让真正的“资产拥有者”们 去要这部分资产（自己要自己的资产)\n/意思就是 我法庭先判了 你们必须认 这些资产就是郭的(庭审的重要 上去的证人都是坑他的 进庭审现场的大多数都是“自己人”)\n不是你们的 你们如果想要钱 等政府没收 再向政府申请(善意购买 不就是变相承认 资产拥有权不是你的？你承认法庭的定罪？资产是郭的？你只是从郭那里买？)","edited":false,"reply_to":"qecacc0242dfd436ce581","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q26fe4d66b3cc1962bd96","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qecacc0242dfd436ce581","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q01974501586afeea24fa","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":996,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-29T14:44:37.100Z","text":"卖车的没问题 又不是G系列 喜交所资产的 拥有者\n其他853 怕是还没明白过来逻辑","edited":false,"reply_to":"qefcf595cc2c57335e7f4","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q01974501586afeea24fa","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qefcf595cc2c57335e7f4","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q3dcd4f6e4279364666cb","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":997,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-01-29T14:50:07.682Z","text":"853n本身只是财产拿回申请，对郭没有正面或者负面影响","edited":false,"reply_to":"q26fe4d66b3cc1962bd96","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3dcd4f6e4279364666cb","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q26fe4d66b3cc1962bd96","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q9dd637c8073c61b95530","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":998,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-01-29T14:50:32.134Z","text":"853n申请者不能用于量刑受害者人数","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9dd637c8073c61b95530","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"qb80a6e977fc71b5da3e0","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":999,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-01-29T14:51:22.097Z","text":"当然检方可以用853n做话题，催促量刑","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb80a6e977fc71b5da3e0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"},{"id":"q53ca12e1e35e7383d77d","batch_id":"batch-000074","seq":1000,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-01-29T14:51:44.586Z","text":"但是检方可以用任何事情催促量刑，包括二巡命令","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q53ca12e1e35e7383d77d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000074"}],"prev_batch_id":"batch-000073","next_batch_id":"batch-000075"}