{"id":"batch-000085","number":85,"revision":2,"date_start":"2026-02-27T20:42:06.653Z","date_end":"2026-03-02T03:53:58.815Z","total_messages":1000,"summary_en":"Community discussion, batch 085 (Feb 27, 2026 – Mar 2, 2026), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. This batch (Feb 27, 2026 to Mar 2, 2026) centered on narrative control versus evidentiary rigor. Members disputed whether the prosecution’s framing around ECF 808/809, Doc 809, CIPA/subpoenas, and Second Circuit mandamus supports a conspiracy among prosecutors, the Alliance, and defense, or reflects unresolved procedural and evidentiary limits. They also argued over who counts as a victim under Section 853(n), whether criminal and bankruptcy (including RICO) frames can share facts, and whether mandamus docketing can influence sentencing. Community statements, not court findings.","guide_en":[{"title":"Prosecutor video and lawyer-independence skepticism, extending into a prosecutor-alliance-defense conspiracy narrative","description":"Some participants claim the cited prosecution video and lawyer-contact chain imply collusion among prosecutors, the Alliance, and defense, while others say the material only shows routine trial tactics and attorney diligence; the thread repeatedly reopens the conspiracy claim. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q1e25776b021883038c83","q7c617052a8266c3dda3c","qf80d68230cfd00d3b346"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q1e25776b021883038c83","summary_en":"yyy*** says the prosecution used the video to argue the defense was not plainly invalid and that counsel was diligent. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q7c617052a8266c3dda3c","summary_en":"roy*** argues that alliance participants were helping the prosecution prepare materials and that the Alliance is perceived as serving prosecutorial needs. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qf80d68230cfd00d3b346","summary_en":"roy*** says the masked member-role reference became a notable point in the conspiracy narrative. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"ECF 808/809 and docket-sequencing disputes: whether subpoenas should be disclosed, withdrawn, and procedural defects are valid","description":"Some participants contend that Doc 808/809 and docket sequencing can determine whether subpoena practices are improper, while others dispute that those filings alone establish reversible procedural defects. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q6789004491c532c51ece","q61d700462d106312c389","q21c479159fe27fff3082"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q6789004491c532c51ece","summary_en":"ton*** says Doc 809 is presented as a chain in which Alliance contacts, social-media lawyer visibility, and delay requests form a pattern interpreted as mobilized prosecution advantage. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q61d700462d106312c389","summary_en":"him*** claims the prosecution reportedly appears not to understand what a subpoena is. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q21c479159fe27fff3082","summary_en":"yyy*** says CIPA and subpoenas could break the prosecution’s combined narrative and therefore become major obstruction targets. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Victim boundaries remain unresolved: conflict between alliance, investors, Section 853(n) applicants, and victim representativeness","description":"Members dispute whether victims are the Alliance, investors, or entities tied to the prosecutorial theory, and whether these groups can be legally interchangeable in representation claims. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qdb71c727b77b7f98e9d8","qa7305991cb10b790ad52","q3b652b125db2b696bbeb"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qdb71c727b77b7f98e9d8","summary_en":"him*** says the prosecution is seen as asserting the Alliance manipulated victims. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qa7305991cb10b790ad52","summary_en":"him*** says the prosecution is viewed as equating the Alliance with Guo. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q3b652b125db2b696bbeb","summary_en":"him*** says the prosecution position is that Alliance control is treated as Guo control. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Communication and evidence-transparency disputes: unanswered counsel outreach, visit and call records, and chain verifiability","description":"Participants argue that contact records, missed counsel follow-up, and call or visit logs should be verifiable, while others dispute whether procedural problems can be inferred from delayed responses or tone alone. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q226ac3b23be495e9aad4","q56d3d184aa5f2e467120","qedd75354a58567aed67f"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q226ac3b23be495e9aad4","summary_en":"kir*** asks who sent letters to Guo’s lawyer. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q56d3d184aa5f2e467120","summary_en":"ntp*** says defense counsel’s tone now resembles the prosecution and says court procedures are not being emphasized. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qedd75354a58567aed67f","summary_en":"kir*** says the request is to require the prosecution to disclose visit and call records. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Second-circuit appeal split: move from SDNY to Second Circuit, mandamus, local counsel-change timing, and possible Supreme Court traces","description":"Some contend strategy should progress from SDNY to Second Circuit proceedings and then broader review channels, while others dispute whether filing order alone improves leverage before sentencing. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q67d4091e3bfde3fd9928","q9cf386ac2df6dc431434","q65cc6665a03d7cb14305"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q67d4091e3bfde3fd9928","summary_en":"beg*** says another major Second Circuit filing on the Alliance is expected and asks what further actions—such as contacting SDNY and preserving records—should follow. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q9cf386ac2df6dc431434","summary_en":"ntp*** says the practical path appears to be filing in SDNY first and then in the Second Circuit. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q65cc6665a03d7cb14305","summary_en":"kir*** says Guo’s main passivity is attributed to counsel choices and local New York representation. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Fund-flow dispute centered on GTV and related asset paths: donation and investment thresholds and whether Mahwah transfers are substantiated","description":"Participants dispute whether funds linked to GTV, the Rule of Law Fund, and Mahwah reflect fraud or documented membership use, with these financial inferences driving competing liability narratives. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q85ad87697bc3f0ba85a3","q2c2147e3a17e225f9cb7","q2fb632f3a7bb5536f980"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q85ad87697bc3f0ba85a3","summary_en":"joh*** says prosecution claims Gclub dues were misused to buy Mahwah for Guo, while evidence of member visits in June 2023 is raised as a counter that points to regular member use. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q2c2147e3a17e225f9cb7","summary_en":"joh*** says GTV investors were asked to send money as Rule of Law Fund contributions. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q2fb632f3a7bb5536f980","summary_en":"roy*** says he saw donations framed as an entry condition for GTV participation before many people knew of investment terms, with contribution proof emphasized first as loyalty evidence. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Parallel RICO and bankruptcy tracks create classification disputes over using the same facts in criminal and Chapter 11 frameworks","description":"Some contend RICO and Chapter 11 narratives can be run in parallel on shared facts, while others dispute how the same conduct is legally characterized across those tracks. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q043ec826023044b7f897","qcb362513cf25ab27b0cb","qf2da5d4dfbbcc97b28a4"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q043ec826023044b7f897","summary_en":"joh*** says bankruptcy-court references are not based on formal record use but on joinder strategy. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qcb362513cf25ab27b0cb","summary_en":"joh*** says the bankruptcy side is said to rely directly on evidence and conclusions already presented. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qf2da5d4dfbbcc97b28a4","summary_en":"reb*** says bankruptcy materials are framed to argue G-series entities are alter egos and that Mahwah belongs to Gclub, which is then tied back to the defendant. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Evidence form and dissemination reliability are disputed as edited videos, screenshots, social posts, and AI text are cross-scrutinized","description":"Participants claim trial-proof value depends on source reliability, and they contest whether edited media, screenshots, social posts, and AI-assisted text can support legal inferences without stronger corroboration. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q9af834a7ba398e5fdb72","q3ed2b3d885e0a17d1a4b","q6ef93578a05909e4eb5a"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q9af834a7ba398e5fdb72","summary_en":"spr*** asks why a major witness was reportedly kept from trial and challenges the stated rationale tied to asylum considerations. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q3ed2b3d885e0a17d1a4b","summary_en":"kir*** says this perspective helps explain why Guo repeatedly delayed proceedings. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q6ef93578a05909e4eb5a","summary_en":"kir*** says they are citing a livestream attributed to Laojiang in the evidentiary discussion. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"The victim/colluder boundary keeps fluctuating amid clashes between alliance witnesses, false creditors, and alternative narratives","description":"Some argue collaborators can still be treated as victims, while others argue that investor, creditor, and conspirator labels should be separated for any representative standing, producing continuing boundary instability. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qb46b272eca69d5d3b2c3","qb28f3eabcd2cf160f4b0","qf78d6cb0259b493daa8f"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qb46b272eca69d5d3b2c3","summary_en":"joh*** says a co-conspirator can also be considered a victim. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qb28f3eabcd2cf160f4b0","summary_en":"joh*** says there are about 100 victim statements in the criminal matter. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qf78d6cb0259b493daa8f","summary_en":"joh*** uses a Section 853(n) comparison to question whether investors knew their money was used for fraud. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Control of procedural outcome expectations: whether Brady, mandamus, and fact-rehearing paths can reverse direction while reversal sentiment coexists","description":"Participants dispute whether Brady breaches, sentencing hearings, and mandamus can realistically change outcome trajectory, while still debating if hopes of reversal exceed the currently available proof standard. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qf14787999814603311af","q42ae6cd21ed2208797bf","q34406e2516f83594dae7"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qf14787999814603311af","summary_en":"reb*** says major Brady violations are not easy to prove, that counsel is not yet ready to litigate that in SDNY, and that options may be limited to Section 853 or sentencing proceedings to force a specific hearing posture. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q42ae6cd21ed2208797bf","summary_en":"kir*** says any material not introduced before sentencing is likely forfeited afterward. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q34406e2516f83594dae7","summary_en":"him*** explains in detail that mandamus legal effect depends on Second Circuit action, not SDNY docketing, and that lack of SDNY docketing alone does not prove selective docketing or auto-trigger sentencing suspension. Community statements, not court findings."}]}],"summary":"本次讨论围绕“叙事控制权”与“可执行程序”形成双线冲突：部分成员将检方引用视频、律师接触与联盟互动解读为共谋链条，另一部分反复强调缺乏直接证据，要求以文件和记录为准。ECF 808/809、二巡docket与强制令路径成为技术核心，焦点在于何种程序瑕疵可触发补救，但对其法律效力分歧很大。受害者身份的定义最为持续分歧，联盟、投资者、受害者委员会、§853(n)申请人之间未形成统一口径，导致是否可代表群体和谁可被列为受害者争论不断。财务链条和并案逻辑（GTV、捐款/投资、RICO与破产）又进一步放大对实体责任的猜测。讨论后期情绪化预期上升，出现“政治交易”“翻案/撤案”“翻盘可能性”等推演，但不少观点同时指出需由可核验材料而非传闻承接下一阶段判断。","guide":[{"title":"检方视频与律师独立性的质疑，延伸为检方—联盟—辩方共谋叙事","message_ids":["q1e25776b021883038c83","q7c617052a8266c3dda3c","qf80d68230cfd00d3b346"]},{"title":"ECF 808/809与docket时序争议：传票是否应披露、撤销及程序瑕疵是否成立","message_ids":["q6789004491c532c51ece","q61d700462d106312c389","q21c479159fe27fff3082"]},{"title":"受害者边界长期未定：联盟、投资者、§853(n)申请人与受害者代表性之间的冲突","message_ids":["qdb71c727b77b7f98e9d8","qa7305991cb10b790ad52","q3b652b125db2b696bbeb"]},{"title":"沟通与证据透明争议：律师未回访、探访与来电记录、报案链条可核验性被反复追问","message_ids":["q226ac3b23be495e9aad4","q56d3d184aa5f2e467120","qedd75354a58567aed67f"]},{"title":"二巡与上诉路径分化：先南区后二巡、强制令、14天换律师与最高法留痕路径并存","message_ids":["q67d4091e3bfde3fd9928","q9cf386ac2df6dc431434","q65cc6665a03d7cb14305"]},{"title":"资金链争议核心在GTV及相关资产路径：捐款/投资门槛、Mahwah等去向是否成立","message_ids":["q85ad87697bc3f0ba85a3","q2c2147e3a17e225f9cb7","q2fb632f3a7bb5536f980"]},{"title":"RICO、破产并行推进引发认定分歧：同一事实在刑事与11章框架下的定位不同","message_ids":["q043ec826023044b7f897","qcb362513cf25ab27b0cb","qf2da5d4dfbbcc97b28a4"]},{"title":"证据形态与传播可靠性受争议：视频删改、截图解读、社媒消息和AI文本被并置质疑","message_ids":["q9af834a7ba398e5fdb72","q3ed2b3d885e0a17d1a4b","q6ef93578a05909e4eb5a"]},{"title":"“受害者/共谋者”边界持续震荡：联盟与污点证人、虚假债权人、替代叙事冲突","message_ids":["qb46b272eca69d5d3b2c3","qb28f3eabcd2cf160f4b0","qf78d6cb0259b493daa8f"]},{"title":"程序结果预期争夺：Brady、强制令与事实重审路径是否可逆转局面，情绪化翻案预期并存","message_ids":["qf14787999814603311af","q42ae6cd21ed2208797bf","q34406e2516f83594dae7"]}],"closed":true,"is_finalized":true,"updated_at":"2026-09-06T17:09:19.871Z","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_batch","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085/pages/5","base_batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000085?page=5","page":5,"page_size":200,"total_pages":5,"has_more":false,"next_url":null,"prev_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000085?page=4","messages":[{"id":"qe25b7ecd6e9a39093f15","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":801,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:44:43.248Z","text":"二巡不论事实 只论证程序问题","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe25b7ecd6e9a39093f15","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qcfba374e6b8f54f753f5","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":802,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:44:53.000Z","text":"比如 政府有没有隐瞒","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcfba374e6b8f54f753f5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q5e2f278bb40d56bab692","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":803,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:45:14.937Z","text":"如果不隐瞒 郭保释会不会成功","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5e2f278bb40d56bab692","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q513062f84c0a1fa72797","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":804,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:45:46.751Z","text":"至于拱卒债券真假 二巡也不会去看的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q513062f84c0a1fa72797","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q72b58540738c5c639f05","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":805,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-01T08:46:14.358Z","text":"政府是否隐瞒了债权有争议，和政府是否明知或者应到知道债权为假，严重程度不一样。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcfba374e6b8f54f753f5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q72b58540738c5c639f05","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcfba374e6b8f54f753f5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q977133ba6ff4505db47e","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":806,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:46:42.487Z","text":"这里瑞恩耍了个心眼","edited":false,"reply_to":"q72b58540738c5c639f05","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q977133ba6ff4505db47e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q72b58540738c5c639f05","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q266be1570bb34f537aa3","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":807,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:46:58.938Z","text":"他的论证直接跳跃","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q266be1570bb34f537aa3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q9ce78ba2d8bfff4fb7eb","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":808,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:47:14.493Z","text":"他其实只论证到检方重大失职","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9ce78ba2d8bfff4fb7eb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qd2a9d505fb7833a8f020","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":809,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:47:23.400Z","text":"他没论证到检方提前知道","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd2a9d505fb7833a8f020","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qc2db55171055af8070fa","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":810,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:47:29.543Z","text":"他就直接说司法欺诈了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc2db55171055af8070fa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q4829c0d8c807bd96b543","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":811,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:47:58.127Z","text":"但瑞恩直接跳跃 反而逼出了南区不上传动议","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4829c0d8c807bd96b543","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qcd6082c2c1a633ceb8ef","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":812,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T08:48:06.409Z","text":"做贼心虚","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd6082c2c1a633ceb8ef","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q159c58569c6d44e126f5","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":813,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:48:07.890Z","text":"瑞恩二巡强制令等","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q159c58569c6d44e126f5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q584754d7fa8251c3fd39","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":814,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:48:10.876Z","text":"对","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcd6082c2c1a633ceb8ef","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q584754d7fa8251c3fd39","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd6082c2c1a633ceb8ef","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q6f47564a192a2757c646","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":815,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:48:17.510Z","text":"检方就知道怎么可能不知道？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6f47564a192a2757c646","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q6ee04a4a60622178e0cb","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":816,"speaker":"xin***","date":"2026-03-01T08:48:29.027Z","text":"瑞恩爆打喜国","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6ee04a4a60622178e0cb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qf869db3128e4f3386002","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":817,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:48:39.124Z","text":"瑞恩只是通过司法记录 完全无法从客观论证检方知道","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf869db3128e4f3386002","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q13b6e964e513eac18c26","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":818,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T08:48:41.799Z","text":"和政府要强行没收GTV 一样的道理","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q13b6e964e513eac18c26","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q799b0b802ed49599eed2","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":819,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:48:48.080Z","text":"但瑞恩一吓","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q799b0b802ed49599eed2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qfd5c9875efb381e7ed81","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":820,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:48:57.998Z","text":"谁知道他们反应更诚实","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfd5c9875efb381e7ed81","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qbba72501fed6efaede28","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":821,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:49:15.341Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]  其实不用论证","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbba72501fed6efaede28","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q6b2d3dd5469f9d5bd122","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":822,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:49:25.497Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息] 检方三年没纠正","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6b2d3dd5469f9d5bd122","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q274c45461b2bf1a6278e","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":823,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:49:31.231Z","text":"即使你确实不知道","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q274c45461b2bf1a6278e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q8c12d57cedbaba9a9a9f","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":824,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:49:36.478Z","text":"但你不知道了三年","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8c12d57cedbaba9a9a9f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qe8eb0bc23c7b97f354cd","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":825,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:49:46.032Z","text":"依然是司法欺诈","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe8eb0bc23c7b97f354cd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qe233e56f293d65491fb5","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":826,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-03-01T08:49:53.153Z","text":"大家独自提交证据 把联盟台面上的人 农场主们 都拖入这个案子 大家一起熬 谁都别跑了 一起进来练","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe233e56f293d65491fb5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qb10ec35a81459c54c4b1","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":827,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-01T08:50:20.880Z","text":"这个我们争论很多次了。我只能说，如果实在觉得不需要论证，论证一下，也没什么坏处。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbba72501fed6efaede28","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb10ec35a81459c54c4b1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbba72501fed6efaede28","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qfbd28d2b23a4dec31b7c","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":828,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:51:07.706Z","text":"确实没坏处","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb10ec35a81459c54c4b1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfbd28d2b23a4dec31b7c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb10ec35a81459c54c4b1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qdcdba399ae26507a343f","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":829,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:51:32.088Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]  恭喜的债权是假的。那么司法欺诈就做实了","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdcdba399ae26507a343f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qc41fdc667d91527be506","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":830,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-01T08:53:19.754Z","text":"你点出了附属对抗程序里的134，也点出了最后曼宁没有批准违反禁制令，就差把134里有，禁止债务人破坏破产程序的完整性，这一条写进去。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbba72501fed6efaede28","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc41fdc667d91527be506","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbba72501fed6efaede28","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q77568e3c135a502c27ec","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":831,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-01T08:53:54.639Z","text":"被告那么做，确实就是在破坏破产程序的完整性，但破产法官为何没有批准？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q77568e3c135a502c27ec","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q1dd6ad2502f381448d2c","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":832,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:54:27.335Z","text":"很简单 拱卒 julia 债权是假的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q77568e3c135a502c27ec","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1dd6ad2502f381448d2c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q77568e3c135a502c27ec","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qafeea57ce54d104d19bc","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":833,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-03-01T08:54:29.713Z","text":"啥叫爆料革命 要去法庭爆自己的料 ，把自己经历的一切料爆上法庭 ，爆料爆料革命自己，完成磐涅","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qafeea57ce54d104d19bc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q01dd533a71d42f8a8976","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":834,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:54:50.065Z","text":"曼宁一旦批准  郭可以直接上诉到破产庭的上级 依然是二巡","edited":false,"reply_to":"q77568e3c135a502c27ec","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q01dd533a71d42f8a8976","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q77568e3c135a502c27ec","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qf604efab86bc50709249","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":835,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:55:07.375Z","text":"从破产庭二巡直接污染刑事案保释","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf604efab86bc50709249","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q27cd28420453e838c592","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":836,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T08:55:14.093Z","text":"整个链条打崩","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q27cd28420453e838c592","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q2168a0c62b1c7b569df5","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":837,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-01T09:00:47.336Z","text":"康州破产法院的上级是康州地区法院，再上一级是二巡。在破产案那边，上诉是到康州地区法院，申请强制令是直接到二巡。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q01dd533a71d42f8a8976","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2168a0c62b1c7b569df5","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q01dd533a71d42f8a8976","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q7f1eb2bbc2cedc62c94b","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":838,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T11:59:01.904Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息] 有空用你强大的AI 分析一下几个Rico 实体 与郭的 替代自我 是怎么转变的","edited":true,"reply_to":"q72a7d542b472b5a7557d","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7f1eb2bbc2cedc62c94b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qa2d1c9c546c4799d715f","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":839,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T12:06:12.273Z","text":"目前庭上给陪审团呈现的是 \n郭是大boss 指挥掌控帮派一切 下面一群听他话的小弟 但是郭被抓后 众亲叛离 小弟们纷纷转到对立面 当污点证人\n所以郭 罪大恶极 小弟们无辜 甚至也深受其害 投资也被骗了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa2d1c9c546c4799d715f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q7c0b994fa4e486efa6ce","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":840,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-01T13:26:41.426Z","text":"事实是郭被抓后，小弟们变本加厉骗钱更起劲了😂","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa2d1c9c546c4799d715f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7c0b994fa4e486efa6ce","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa2d1c9c546c4799d715f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q5c2af66e371accbc1b6d","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":841,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-01T13:27:06.778Z","text":"郭在的时候，也没人听他的啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5c2af66e371accbc1b6d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q498928c044dd2ea16474","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":842,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-01T13:27:41.941Z","text":"审核喜币，不都是小弟们贪钱，话说草根去哪儿了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q498928c044dd2ea16474","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q615d00f8714fb42eb5c0","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":843,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T13:35:27.438Z","text":"草根 X上 倾风乐 一直在跟","edited":false,"reply_to":"q498928c044dd2ea16474","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q615d00f8714fb42eb5c0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q498928c044dd2ea16474","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q9c25e45c6818b24f6161","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":844,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T13:38:30.972Z","text":"检方坚持认为 所有投资者都是受害者 包括那几个共谋污点证人  所以 不起诉共谋","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9c25e45c6818b24f6161","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q671bf9f9647dfc78346d","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":845,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-01T13:39:33.965Z","text":"他们到底是不是污点证人啊？不是所有农场主都签了不起诉协议吧？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9c25e45c6818b24f6161","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q671bf9f9647dfc78346d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9c25e45c6818b24f6161","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q0ac2ff4697f0fe985ca3","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":846,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-01T13:41:20.230Z","text":"作证的和被法庭确定为共谋但没有起诉的那些，应该都签了不起诉协议。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ac2ff4697f0fe985ca3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q29db1a90d48955eafd16","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":847,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T13:48:38.324Z","text":"检方认为 他们也受害了\n比如 那个木兰 装无辜还哭\n香草山核币的那个谁？也是装可怜","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0ac2ff4697f0fe985ca3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q29db1a90d48955eafd16","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ac2ff4697f0fe985ca3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q8248ce06c6307f3d5d61","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":848,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T13:51:56.028Z","text":"我之前说过 Luc 在破产案Rico ROL的转账\n这步棋目的是把 所有农场主 骨干 都拉下水","edited":false,"reply_to":"q671bf9f9647dfc78346d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8248ce06c6307f3d5d61","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q671bf9f9647dfc78346d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qe380514ab487d82b5f18","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":849,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T13:54:58.659Z","text":"几乎每个农场主 都有ROL的转账 不能说接受转账的 都是共谋\n但是青们会忽悠那帮傻X 吓唬他们","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe380514ab487d82b5f18","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qb81228c029a946f1dd76","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":850,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T13:55:31.305Z","text":"同时用老椅子捐款的律师费 帮他们和Luc 和解 并且没有要求他们退回收到的钱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb81228c029a946f1dd76","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q8903f35187caa222fb88","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":851,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T13:56:18.093Z","text":"这样他们收的ROL转账 性质就说不清了 拿人手短 被动上贼船","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8903f35187caa222fb88","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q093c2e97a69d692416f1","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":852,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-01T13:59:26.414Z","text":"我们在尝试用法律程序破局这个政治案件，不要走着走着就忘了案件的基本事实：那些灭共演员诈骗犯是有组织诈骗栽赃，组织上已经跟它们说好了，尽管在里面搞钱，搞到多少算你本事，组织在美国司法部有人，到时栽赃给被告就行，且赃款只是自愿退回，可以不退。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q093c2e97a69d692416f1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q9394be27f62a588e3d57","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":853,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T14:04:29.240Z","text":"联盟这帮人也一样 手脚不干净 有把柄在别人手里 只能乖乖听话 还要配合指示表演","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9394be27f62a588e3d57","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q09e9a8df11f9ed0ff84d","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":854,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-01T14:06:48.208Z","text":"目前为止的一个好势头是：南区居然没有上传二巡的立案通知。不知道是二巡没通知，还是通知了南区不上传，不管哪种情况，都说明它们遇到了难题。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q09e9a8df11f9ed0ff84d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q7cae555dd907ed897795","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":855,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T14:08:15.371Z","text":"八成是已经跑路","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7cae555dd907ed897795","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q3b3354d7dd39389b3699","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":856,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T14:08:56.235Z","text":"一个法务 总明白自己犯了什么罪吧\n庭审记录的共谋 签了不起诉协议\n没想到敢继续露面谈案子 心真大","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3b3354d7dd39389b3699","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q2a95ae32817068b507dd","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":857,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T14:15:01.559Z","text":"361 364 青们 小羊 安小东 没有一个敢说\n这些人 平时互咬 一到关键时候 集体装瞎 偶尔还会打配合 引导舆论","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2a95ae32817068b507dd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q50608794caed1971bf5f","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":858,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-03-01T14:39:58.730Z","text":"深度分析：郭文贵案中 RICO 实体与“替代自我”（Alter Ego）的转变与交织\n在郭文贵（Ho Wan Kwok）的复杂法律案件中，同一批公司实体在纽约南区联邦法院（SDNY）的刑事案件与康涅狄格州的破产案件中扮演了双重角色。它们既是美国司法部指控的 RICO 犯罪企业（RICO Enterprise）的组成部分，又被破产受托人（卢克·德斯平，Luc Despins）在破产法庭上主张为郭本人的“替代自我”（Alter Egos）。\n\n这种转变并非偶然，而是刑事检方与破产受托人基于同一套事实证据（郭的绝对控制与资金滥用），为了各自的诉讼目的（刑事定罪与追回破产资产）而采用的不同法律理论。以下是这种转变的深度法理与事实分析：\n\n一、 法律概念的底层逻辑：从犯罪工具到破产财产\n1. 刑事案件中的 RICO 实体 (RICO Enterprise)\n在 2024 年 1 月 3 日政府提交的**超级起诉书（Superseding Indictment）**中，检方增加了《受敲诈勒索者影响和腐败组织法》（RICO）的指控。政府 allege 郭构建了一个由众多看似独立的公司组成的“郭氏企业”（Kwok Enterprise）。 在 RICO 框架下，这些实体（如 GTV、G|CLUBS、Himalaya Exchange 等）被视作一个“事实上的联合体”（Association-in-fact）。其核心逻辑是：这些实体是相互配合的犯罪工具，被核心人物用来实施电汇欺诈、证券欺诈和洗钱，目的是骗取投资者资金并隐匿犯罪所得。\n\n2. 破产案件中的“替代自我” (Alter Ego / 揭开公司面纱)\n在破产案件中，破产受托人发起了史无前例的“综合替代自我诉讼”（Omnibus Alter Ego Action, Adv. Proc. No. 24-5249）。 破产法中的“替代自我”理论（也称“揭开公司面纱”，Piercing the Corporate Veil）是一种衡平法救济（Equitable Remedy）。其核心逻辑是：当一个人对某公司拥有绝对的支配和控制（Dominion and Control），致使该公司完全没有自己的独立意志，且这种控制被用来实施欺诈或逃避债务（例如逃避债权人 PAX 的追讨）时，法律将无视这些公司的独立法人资格。这样一来，这些实体的所有资产在法律上就等同于郭个人的资产，直接归入破产财产（Chapter 11 Estate）中供债权人瓜分。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7f1eb2bbc2cedc62c94b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q50608794caed1971bf5f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7f1eb2bbc2cedc62c94b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qa656fbd69be792895159","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":859,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-03-01T14:40:11.097Z","text":"二、 转变的事实桥梁：高度重合的证据链\nRICO 实体之所以能够完美顺滑地转换为“替代自我”，是因为支撑这两种法律主张的底层事实完全一致。\n\n资金混同与随意流转： 在超级起诉书中，政府指出郭文贵在指控的实体之间随意转移资金，并通常将其伪装成“贷款”或“投资”。最典型的例子是 Himalaya Exchange 向其实际控制的实体提供 **3700 万美元的“贷款”**用于维护其豪华游艇（Lady May）。\n缺乏公司独立性： 这种随意调拨巨额无抵押资金的行为，在刑事上是洗钱机制；但在破产法上，这正是公司缺乏独立性、资产被个人随意取用的实锤证据。受托人正是利用这一点证明，这些公司根本没有进行独立的企业治理，仅仅是郭转移和藏匿资产的“空壳”。\n管理层重叠与幕后指令： 司法部指控郭通过其亲属（如其儿子、女儿）和亲信（如王雁平）在幕后操控这些公司。受托人同样利用这一事实，证明郭通过“傀儡”高管实现了对这些实体的实际控制。\n三、 涉及转变的核心实体画像\n根据法庭文件（如破产案 Doc. 2492 文件及超级起诉书），大量涉案公司经历了这重身份转换：\n\nHimalaya Exchange (喜马拉雅交易所)：在 RICO 指控中是诈骗 2.62 亿美元的平台；在破产案中，受托人以此为“替代自我”主张接管被政府扣押的数亿美元法币和加密资产。\nGTV Media Group / Saraca Media：RICO 指控中的非法私募平台；受托人早期就已获得法院支持，认定其实际受郭控制。\nG|CLUBS (G Club Operations LLC)：RICO 中的会员费欺诈载体；在破产案中，受托人基于同样的控制事实，主张接管用 G-Club 资金购买的新泽西州 Mahwah 豪宅（由 Taurus Fund LLC 持有，同为 Alter Ego 被告）。\n农场贷款实体 (如 HCHK Technologies, Inc.)：被指控非法吸收农场贷款；同时也是受托人 Alter Ego 诉讼的目标，受托人借此扣押了其名下的 3800 万美元现金。\n四、 转变带来的巨大司法冲突：受害者 vs. 受托人\n当“RICO 实体”被成功转化为破产法上的“替代自我”后，引发了郭案中最激烈的利益冲突和管辖权争夺：\n\n资产归属的零和博弈： 政府（及受害者）的立场：这些实体账户里的钱（尤其是 Himalaya Exchange 被扣押的数亿美元）是 RICO 犯罪所得。这是属于受害者（投资人）的钱，应该通过刑事没收（Criminal Forfeiture）途径全额返还给受影响的被骗群众。 破产受托人的立场：既然这些公司是郭的“替代自我”，它们根本没有任何独立性。因此，这笔钱在法律上“就是郭文贵的钱”。既然是郭的钱，就必须纳入破产池，用来优先支付他高昂的法律费用（已耗资数千万美元），并按比例偿付合法的商业债权人（如太盟亚洲 PAX）。\n\n郭文贵辩护团队的抗辩： 郭的律师在文件中明确指出，受托人这种“把 RICO 企业变成替代自我”的做法极其荒谬。如果受托人成功，本来应该退还给所谓“欺诈受害者”的钱，将被用来支付受托人自己的天价律师费。且由于破产案和刑事案件的指控对象完全重合，郭极有可能在破产程序中被迫交出对自身不利的刑事证据（包括律师-客户特权文件被受托人豁免）。\n\n总结\n在郭文贵案中，“RICO 实体”向“替代自我”的转变，是同一套事实（绝对控制+资金共用）在并行诉讼中的双重映射。刑事检察官利用它编织定罪的“犯罪网络”，而破产受托人利用它打造了一张吞噬资产的“民事拖网”。这种法理上的转变，实质上将受害投资者的资金卷入了一场错综复杂的破产利益分配争夺战之中。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa656fbd69be792895159","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qfc40bce2707dd8efce62","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":860,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T14:51:26.573Z","text":"简单说就是 同一套事实和证据\n被破产案和刑事案 分别利用","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfc40bce2707dd8efce62","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q5ed822cfb480a7797b3f","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":861,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T15:10:38.407Z","text":"庭上的检方证人 目的就是证明郭对这几个实体 有绝对控制权","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5ed822cfb480a7797b3f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qc66ae074f9933d298b3a","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":862,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-03-01T15:10:43.649Z","text":"什么叫替代自我？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7f1eb2bbc2cedc62c94b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc66ae074f9933d298b3a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7f1eb2bbc2cedc62c94b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q6d7ceb15d66ae3324c8e","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":863,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T15:14:43.577Z","text":"又做假账又骗钱，郭在这件事上没有作为，他也被联盟蒙骗了？还是联盟根本就是失控的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6d7ceb15d66ae3324c8e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q1ebac9ddf0cff3343181","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":864,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-01T15:15:16.685Z","text":"老郭进去之后，长岛和老班长说草根被日本警察局抓了，因为有人给他寄毒品？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q692628041c44cf4d11cb","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1ebac9ddf0cff3343181","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q9663ff563e2bb1cdf62a","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":865,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T15:16:53.877Z","text":"实体的资产 算到个人头上","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc66ae074f9933d298b3a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9663ff563e2bb1cdf62a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc66ae074f9933d298b3a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q2074514fd6ebd04efb25","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":866,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T15:17:06.225Z","text":"没进去的时候就说了吧","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1ebac9ddf0cff3343181","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2074514fd6ebd04efb25","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1ebac9ddf0cff3343181","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q421d67cb594a42c8a89b","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":867,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-01T15:17:23.879Z","text":"郭被抓之后，才发生的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2074514fd6ebd04efb25","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q421d67cb594a42c8a89b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2074514fd6ebd04efb25","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q800b5f2148f3ef57eb80","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":868,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T15:17:31.278Z","text":"他也被联盟当猴耍","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q800b5f2148f3ef57eb80","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q92575d7f8b96d4d51994","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":869,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T15:21:03.361Z","text":"和组织去唐平 威廉王家 抗议 一个道理","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q92575d7f8b96d4d51994","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qa81582459ebd2bb5d713","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":870,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T15:29:09.729Z","text":"这段话的意思是\n检方(政府)认为投资者都是受害者 这也做实了青 和检方合作 宣传填表要接受 受害者角色 也就是变相承认检方和污点证人构建的叙事闭环\n因为第三方一旦出现 检方的叙事逻辑就会破裂 不是所有投资者 都认可这个故事","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa81582459ebd2bb5d713","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q96013e8297484d6b7882","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":871,"speaker":"yyy***","date":"2026-03-01T15:29:36.301Z","text":"总结的到位啊👍","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa2d1c9c546c4799d715f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q96013e8297484d6b7882","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa2d1c9c546c4799d715f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q61cea543ba59f7d90c9c","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":872,"speaker":"xin***","date":"2026-03-01T15:34:08.910Z","text":"是我们被郭当猴耍","edited":false,"reply_to":"q800b5f2148f3ef57eb80","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q61cea543ba59f7d90c9c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q800b5f2148f3ef57eb80","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qcd7119bbf52b91fec479","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":873,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-01T15:35:02.621Z","text":"郭被联盟耍，你被郭耍","edited":false,"reply_to":"q61cea543ba59f7d90c9c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd7119bbf52b91fec479","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q61cea543ba59f7d90c9c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q6c052cd79c48b6ccedd3","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":874,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-01T15:35:16.762Z","text":"联盟才是大boss😆","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6c052cd79c48b6ccedd3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qe2bade258506719ab444","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":875,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T15:41:28.748Z","text":"［用户 xin***］ 你现在有两个思路","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe2bade258506719ab444","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qcbf19d486c16a9584bfa","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":876,"speaker":"xin***","date":"2026-03-01T15:41:35.543Z","text":"郭如果被联盟耍 这智商你觉得能剿匪？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcbf19d486c16a9584bfa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qedd75354a58567aed67f","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":877,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T15:41:43.400Z","text":"你要么让检方公布探访 电话记录","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qedd75354a58567aed67f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qde86dfb64afb93d12bd0","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":878,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T15:41:52.873Z","text":"要么让拱卒公布债权","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qde86dfb64afb93d12bd0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q9421f2863dcfdfb36d2c","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":879,"speaker":"xin***","date":"2026-03-01T15:42:19.511Z","text":"同时进行就好了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9421f2863dcfdfb36d2c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q58bc31748014beda7c71","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":880,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-01T15:44:19.486Z","text":"郭只是一个人，联盟一帮人，说不定还有党国的力量","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcbf19d486c16a9584bfa","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q58bc31748014beda7c71","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcbf19d486c16a9584bfa","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qb0e6cbc092eff65c29d5","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":881,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-01T15:44:32.206Z","text":"郭被联盟耍，不丢人","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb0e6cbc092eff65c29d5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q3c954d7246d2dc41b0b5","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":882,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-03-01T15:48:00.692Z","text":"什么是法律上的替代自我？它是一个法律术语吗？\n\nGrok:\n\n“法律上的替代自我”这个表述并不是一个常见的、标准的中文法律术语，在主流的法律教科书、司法解释、立法文件或常用法律词典中，几乎找不到直接使用“替代自我”这个词作为一个固定法律概念。\n\n但它最接近、也最可能被指代的其实是英美法系中一个非常重要的公司法/法人人格否认领域的概念——Alter Ego（另一自我 / 替代自我 / 第二自我）。\n\n### Alter Ego 是什么？它是一个法律术语吗？\n\n是的，它是一个成熟的、被广泛承认的普通法法律原则/学说（Alter Ego Doctrine / Alter Ego Theory）。\n\n中文常见的几种译法：\n\n- 另一自我学说\n- 替代自我学说\n- 第二自我理论\n- 另一人格理论\n\n核心含义：  \n当一家公司（通常是有限责任公司）实际上只是控制人（股东、实际控制人）或另一家公司用来规避法律义务、欺诈债权人、逃避合同责任的“工具”或“外壳”时，法院可以**“刺破公司面纱”**（pierce the corporate veil），否认该公司的独立法人人格，把公司和控制人视为“同一人”（即公司的行为就是控制人的行为），从而让控制人个人直接对公司债务承担无限责任。\n\n简单说就是：  \n你不能一边享受有限责任保护，一边把公司当做自己任意操控的“另一个我”来干坏事。一旦被认定是“Alter Ego”，有限责任保护就会被法院撕掉。\n\n### 典型的使用场景（举例）\n\n1. 一人公司A欠债跑路，实际控制人马上又设立一人公司B继续经营同一业务 → 可能被认定B是A的Alter Ego\n2. 母公司完全操控子公司，子公司就是母公司的一个部门、没有独立意志 → 可能刺破子公司面纱，让母公司直接负责\n3. 股东把公司资产和个人资产严重混同、公司形同虚设 → 高度符合Alter Ego特征\n\n### 中国法律中的对应概念\n\n中国《公司法》虽然没有直接写“Alter Ego”或“替代自我”，但有非常接近的规定：\n\n- 《公司法》第20条：公司股东滥用公司法人独立地位和股东有限责任，逃避债务，严重损害公司债权人利益的，应当对公司债务承担连带责任。（这就是中国版的“刺破公司面纱”）\n- 《公司法》第63条（一人有限责任公司）：一人有限责任公司的股东不能证明公司财产独立于股东自己的财产的，应当对公司债务承担连带责任。（最接近Alter Ego的法定推定）\n\n所以在中国的司法实践中，法官经常用“人格混同”“公司形骸化”“股东滥用公司独立人格”等表述来处理类似问题，这些其实就是吸收了Alter Ego理论的实质。\n\n总结一句话：\n\n“法律上的替代自我”不是一个严格的中文法律专有名词，但它极大概率是在指代英美法中的“Alter Ego doctrine”（另一自我 / 替代自我学说），这是一个真正的、历史悠久的法律概念，主要用于公司法人人格否认的场合。  \n在中国语境下，更常见的说法是“公司人格否认”“刺破公司面纱”或直接引用《公司法》第20条、第63条。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9663ff563e2bb1cdf62a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3c954d7246d2dc41b0b5","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9663ff563e2bb1cdf62a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q64e06024353dd141f7f9","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":883,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T15:53:03.733Z","text":"定罪后开启初步没收 第三方出现 投资者有不同声音 不同意检方的欺诈叙事 那么检方有权支配的冻结资产 就要减少 对量刑就产生影响","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa81582459ebd2bb5d713","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q64e06024353dd141f7f9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa81582459ebd2bb5d713","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q85ad87697bc3f0ba85a3","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":884,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T16:09:27.702Z","text":"Mahwah的问题在于 \n检方认为Gclub 的会员费被挪用 钱用于购买Mahwah供郭使用 构成欺诈\n这里有个bug 23年6 4 是很多人去过Mahwah 说明它是在给Gclub会员使用 这不涉及挪用 这个证据如果上庭 那么Gclub应该无罪","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q85ad87697bc3f0ba85a3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q773ee1935b30130c9b6b","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":885,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-03-01T16:25:32.063Z","text":"啥替代自我，注册登记文件都不具备法律效力了吗？比如一房子房产证上是我名字，我给亲戚使用，让他全权处理装修出租事宜，大小事情全权做主，他手下干活的人作证说房子他控制，那就是他的了吗？文件上谁所有，谁受益，全都不算了吗？还不得房产证上是谁名家就算谁的！G系列公司都有权属人和受益人，公司所有人交给顾问老郭经营控制又有什么问题？给顾问在Mahwah安排房间方便他又有什么问题？文件全不算数，全凭一张嘴，美国法律会这样儿戏？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf2da5d4dfbbcc97b28a4","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q773ee1935b30130c9b6b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf2da5d4dfbbcc97b28a4","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q8f75e4d1ad48c31914d3","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":886,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-03-01T16:30:41.218Z","text":"GTV怎么是法治基金的资金来源？法治基金的钱都是捐款人直接汇到法治基金账户，跟gtv八杆子打不着","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbb0935123018d19bcfc3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8f75e4d1ad48c31914d3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbb0935123018d19bcfc3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q2c2147e3a17e225f9cb7","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":887,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T16:38:01.916Z","text":"GTV投资者 被要求把钱 捐法治基金","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8f75e4d1ad48c31914d3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c2147e3a17e225f9cb7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8f75e4d1ad48c31914d3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q34c9f866198b81a686dc","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":888,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-03-01T16:45:22.725Z","text":"债权人登记是王雪冰天天鼓动的，被告只是盖文讽刺地提了一嘴，这个也是因为王说是郭指使的吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q75a9070fc3fa6ed44971","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q34c9f866198b81a686dc","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q75a9070fc3fa6ed44971","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q8ae8a09c452860598752","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":889,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-03-01T16:48:35.305Z","text":"拱卒一人报案就能能把郭逮起来，那九指妖那么多人去fbi 报案fbi啥动静没有","edited":false,"reply_to":"qfc2e65788e4254f7e7de","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8ae8a09c452860598752","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfc2e65788e4254f7e7de","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q82afb8297fdbe0172735","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":890,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T16:55:49.363Z","text":"拱卒报案没报还不知道","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8ae8a09c452860598752","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q82afb8297fdbe0172735","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8ae8a09c452860598752","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q36993ce53758d514a04c","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":891,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T16:56:13.424Z","text":"［用户 xin***］ 你可以要求公布拱卒有没有报案","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q36993ce53758d514a04c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qd79cf6ce2d2ee0c5b722","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":892,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-03-01T16:58:24.545Z","text":"100个人说我杀了人我就杀了人了？事实不看了？法律文本不看了？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa2d1c9c546c4799d715f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd79cf6ce2d2ee0c5b722","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa2d1c9c546c4799d715f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q10cc3e590f4797465dd9","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":893,"speaker":"mia***","date":"2026-03-01T17:04:35.097Z","text":"先抓起来冻结项目，再让投资人损失受害，然后组织起来填表成受害者。投资人因为被告诈骗损失惨重……","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd79cf6ce2d2ee0c5b722","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q10cc3e590f4797465dd9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd79cf6ce2d2ee0c5b722","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q7dd6b4dfe466b74a6df2","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":894,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-03-01T17:05:34.246Z","text":"鸟在HCOIN 46的时候砸盘，套出的钱都去哪了？\n木兰不是套了近千成吗？有这样的受害人？越受害搞钱越多？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q29db1a90d48955eafd16","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7dd6b4dfe466b74a6df2","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q29db1a90d48955eafd16","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q634742b10f68e6971f79","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":895,"speaker":"mia***","date":"2026-03-01T17:07:24.114Z","text":"他们是作为共谋犯去做污点证人说是被告指挥他们，搞来的钱是给被告挥霍的，然后污点证人免于被起诉","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7dd6b4dfe466b74a6df2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q634742b10f68e6971f79","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7dd6b4dfe466b74a6df2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qe1a6bae2399b78c83221","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":896,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T17:22:32.167Z","text":"GTV被认定是郭控制 被指控欺诈\n最后又是陪审团认定无罪\n那么刑事案的Rico是不是要把郭踢出去？\n其他三个实体 Gclub 农场借贷 喜交所 都有实际控制人","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe1a6bae2399b78c83221","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qce18cd491b76291c7ef7","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":897,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-03-01T17:36:35.613Z","text":"回答凛冬将至的困惑。\n\n回答：GTV 和法治基金的资金关系\n凛冬将至的问题是：\"GTV怎么是法治基金的资金来源？法治基金的钱都是捐款人直接汇到...\"\n\n这个困惑可以理解，但检方的指控并不是说 GTV 的钱转到了法治基金，而是反过来——向法治基金捐款是投资 GTV 的前提条件（prerequisite）。\n\n核心机制：捐款是投资的\"门票\"\n根据 SEC 民事诉讼（破产案 Doc#579-1）中的多位投资人亲身经历：\n\n\"Guo mandated that these potential investors make a demonstration of loyalty to him and his proclaimed cause of combatting the Chinese government by donating to Guo's not-for-profits Rule of Law Foundation\" — 作为投资 GTV 股票的条件前提 (condition precedent)\n\n具体案例：\n\n投资人 Zhang：先向法治基金 PayPal 汇了 $500，然后发邮件给郭证明捐款，才获得 GTV 投资资格\n投资人 Raphanella：在 Sara Wei 直播中得知\"投资者必须提供向法治基金捐款的证明\"，先捐了 $30\n投资人 Wang：在 Sara Wei 的 Discord 频道得知\"向法治基金或法治社会捐款是投资 GTV 的前提条件\"，先捐了 $100\n\"Wei requested proof of their donation to the Rule of Law Foundation\" — Sara Wei 要求投资人提供捐款凭证后才处理 GTV 股票购买\n\n所以 Qiodty 说的是对的\n截图中 Qiodty 说\"GTV投资者被要求把钱捐法治基金\"——这正是检方的指控核心之一。\n\n不仅如此，资金还有反向流动\n根据 Wang 的量刑备忘录（SDNY Doc#476），审判证人 Karin Maistrello 作证：\n\nWang directed a scheme to transfer funds from various Guo business accounts to the Rule of Law organizations' accounts in order to create the false appearance of more and larger donations to Rule of Law.\n\n也就是说，不仅投资人被要求先捐款给法治基金才能投资 GTV，王雁平还指示将郭的商业账户资金转入法治基金账户，制造更多更大捐款的假象。\n\n法治基金捐款还被挪用\n检方指控（SDNY Doc#273）：\n\nKwok never donated $100 million to the Rule of Law charities. Indeed, Kwok instead began using those purported charities for his own purposes, including using funds donated to the charities by his followers to pay his family office entity monthly rent and to pay protestors involved in harassing his critics.\n\n总结\n关系    说明\n投资人 → 法治基金    捐款是投资 GTV 的强制前提条件\n法治基金 → 郭个人    捐款被挪用付房租、雇人\n郭商业账户 → 法治基金    转账制造大额捐款假象\nGTV 投资款 → 对冲基金    $1亿被挪入高风险对冲基金（为郭儿子）\n所以检方的逻辑链是法治基金的钱确实是\"捐款人直接汇到的\"，但问题在于：这些捐款并非自愿的慈善行为，而是被设计为投资 GTV 的入场费——投资人想买 GTV 股票，就必须先向法治基金捐款证明\"忠诚度\"。这就是为什么检方将二者视为同一欺诈计划的组成部分。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qce18cd491b76291c7ef7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qb4238b2a4edebc9d3366","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":898,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T17:37:42.730Z","text":"［用户 joh***］ 我认为去搞这些链条的意义不大 我到现在还没完全懂","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb4238b2a4edebc9d3366","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q1401565971b2c57f3c5f","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":899,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T17:48:23.581Z","text":"陪审团也懂不了🤣","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1401565971b2c57f3c5f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qbc43b0cb9579d0710605","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":900,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-01T17:48:36.624Z","text":"稀里糊涂就定罪了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbc43b0cb9579d0710605","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qf64b3afe5468f2bf82e1","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":901,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-03-01T18:18:47.977Z","text":"对于纽约左派天堂的陪审团 故事显然比事实重要 他们相信就行","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf64b3afe5468f2bf82e1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q2c2c389546fd3af988cc","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":902,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-03-01T18:35:52.079Z","text":"投资设门槛有何问题？投资只提供给支持者理所当然，捐款只是支持者证据，你如果为了投资才去捐款，就是你自己造假呗，为了获利不是支持者冒充支持者，郭造假大额捐款假象更可笑，难道郭的转账转了又收回去了吗？没收回就是实际真实捐款，谈何假象一说？这检方指lu为马的本事跟中共比不遑多让","edited":false,"reply_to":"qce18cd491b76291c7ef7","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c2c389546fd3af988cc","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qce18cd491b76291c7ef7","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q29af6a084b3d45b847be","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":903,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-03-01T18:50:10.280Z","text":"法庭文件显示的检方的述事逻辑 陪审团信了 仅此而已","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q29af6a084b3d45b847be","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qfcdd46a03db5c281c2e8","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":904,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-01T19:03:45.752Z","text":"陪审团不懂，是因为郭律师辩护不力，没说到点上","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1401565971b2c57f3c5f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfcdd46a03db5c281c2e8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1401565971b2c57f3c5f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q9f86c0f7b5bba403b967","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":905,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-01T19:04:10.811Z","text":"重要问题，全都不说清楚","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9f86c0f7b5bba403b967","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q6d10a9df1baa327e51c2","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":906,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-01T19:11:07.480Z","text":"郭身边这些人，王，联盟，还有郭的儿子女儿，做的事情，全都被说成郭自己指挥收益。事实到底是不是这样，没人知道，但是这就是检方叙事，辩方律师从来不反驳这个","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6d10a9df1baa327e51c2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q606fa22f08b8332c8873","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":907,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-01T19:13:01.204Z","text":"有些事情只有郭自己知道，但是他放弃了自辩","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q606fa22f08b8332c8873","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qe5053bd7655903b83580","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":908,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T19:24:22.931Z","text":"如果托尼的证据出现在法庭上","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe5053bd7655903b83580","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qb701d580d619e6be40af","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":909,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T19:24:27.837Z","text":"陪审团直接判无罪","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb701d580d619e6be40af","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qa3e3d759cd29727e4659","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":910,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T19:24:54.857Z","text":"因为这里的钱 都在中国判过","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa3e3d759cd29727e4659","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q12795aeb1d40cfd58bab","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":911,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T19:25:27.448Z","text":"律师完全就可以打政治案 框架错误","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q12795aeb1d40cfd58bab","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qbe382eda389107f9bf89","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":912,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T19:32:26.266Z","text":"自始至终律师们都没给被告提供有力的辩护，将来被告上诉不还得靠律师吗？律师成了绕不过去的坎儿","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbe382eda389107f9bf89","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qe2ca54a873e81b9371d5","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":913,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T19:38:32.917Z","text":"上诉可以找全国律师","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbe382eda389107f9bf89","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe2ca54a873e81b9371d5","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbe382eda389107f9bf89","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q4230b591bae35fe1646b","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":914,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T19:38:35.354Z","text":"没有任何限制","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4230b591bae35fe1646b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q37c93ef0778a9521830d","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":915,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T19:45:46.457Z","text":"老郭没钱，上哪找律师，只能等政府指派","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q37c93ef0778a9521830d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q29bd174351eb317397aa","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":916,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T19:46:33.738Z","text":"这次二巡指定","edited":false,"reply_to":"q37c93ef0778a9521830d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q29bd174351eb317397aa","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q37c93ef0778a9521830d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qb5bf0deaf7cf9601997e","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":917,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T19:46:49.442Z","text":"二巡啥态度也不好说","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb5bf0deaf7cf9601997e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qe37abb88fef7620651b8","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":918,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-01T19:51:29.900Z","text":"家人可以凑律师费","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe37abb88fef7620651b8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q2155aaf7e87ea097f872","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":919,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-03-01T20:24:16.964Z","text":"Go fund me 是最好的选择 律师费","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2155aaf7e87ea097f872","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q2fb632f3a7bb5536f980","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":920,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-03-01T20:39:27.073Z","text":"这些捐款并非自愿的慈善行为，而是被设计为投资 GTV 的入场费——投资人想买 GTV 股票，就必须先向法治基金捐款证明\"忠诚度\"。这就是为什么检方将二者视为同一欺诈计划的组成部分。\n这句话不对，在捐款时所有人不知道有GTV投资，郭宣布GTV投资时说必须有捐款，法治基金出来时他反复直播时说捐款凭证一定要保留好，很多次强调，我就是因为听了听强调很多次保留好捐款凭证，以后登上诺亚方舟有用，我自愿捐款的。后来GTV开始私募，排队找九指妖要郭的联系方式，那时我才明白原来是这个用处，在你不知道有什么利益的前提下捐款那才是忠诚，而且好像是有日期限制，啥时间之前捐才有用。他GTV项目公布后再捐，没用。我记得是这么回事","edited":false,"reply_to":"qce18cd491b76291c7ef7","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2fb632f3a7bb5536f980","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qce18cd491b76291c7ef7","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qf92f13a9c1296577964c","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":921,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T20:46:49.895Z","text":"私募开始就应该截止捐款，后面的都是为钱而来","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2fb632f3a7bb5536f980","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf92f13a9c1296577964c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2fb632f3a7bb5536f980","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q60ccf0b5ba8243adc6b2","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":922,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T20:50:36.089Z","text":"开始是那么说，后来就又算了，到最后有没有捐款都能投资了，没有底线，最终酿祸","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2fb632f3a7bb5536f980","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q60ccf0b5ba8243adc6b2","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2fb632f3a7bb5536f980","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q28011872cba3dbd467fd","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":923,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-03-01T20:51:14.453Z","text":"不是，投资GT V的捐款是有时间限制的，在那个时间段前的捐款凭证可以投资GTV，后面捐的无效。而且汇款的时间很短，没多久就停止私募了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf92f13a9c1296577964c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q28011872cba3dbd467fd","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf92f13a9c1296577964c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q0cf09ddb049cace76dd4","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":924,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-03-01T20:51:32.436Z","text":"我是指GTV老椅子","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0cf09ddb049cace76dd4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qf382b46cdacab39d00be","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":925,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-03-01T20:51:48.167Z","text":"有股票证书的那批","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf382b46cdacab39d00be","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q5060bd8f90c7ac72feac","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":926,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T20:52:16.120Z","text":"我说的是小额，老郭说要带穷人致富，但他也犯了穷人没底线的毛病","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5060bd8f90c7ac72feac","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q95d80a6fc32be116b0bd","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":927,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T20:52:56.420Z","text":"原来老椅子和小额还是区别对待了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q95d80a6fc32be116b0bd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qa70acf3919d8e8490329","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":928,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-03-01T20:53:04.844Z","text":"小额那是九指那里的？后来的借贷就不属于GTV了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa70acf3919d8e8490329","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qcc5dc031c4b8f1ce79a0","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":929,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T20:53:31.385Z","text":"Vog那会还没有农场","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcc5dc031c4b8f1ce79a0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q3100f8de7ce8631cf3e9","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":930,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T20:53:55.102Z","text":"第一批小额投资就是vog","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3100f8de7ce8631cf3e9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q2bbd4648eece3f9fff49","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":931,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-03-01T20:54:26.094Z","text":"是的，没有十万的就在九指那里，还有人很冤枉的几十万都被九指截胡了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2bbd4648eece3f9fff49","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qa5ec604f971e3aa44628","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":932,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T20:54:32.198Z","text":"当时老郭直播说了小额找Sara，甚至还允许几个人凑一把椅子","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa5ec604f971e3aa44628","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q3ee2a9542317cae895cc","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":933,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T20:55:36.922Z","text":"老郭造富是造了，富的全是害人的玩意儿","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ee2a9542317cae895cc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q27847d78326e9ea7f4b0","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":934,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T20:55:55.957Z","text":"他也没跳出杀人放火金腰带的魔咒","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q27847d78326e9ea7f4b0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qc6b6b91cd545601dffc1","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":935,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-03-01T20:56:22.865Z","text":"全富了那一群诈骗犯，到今天都啥事没有，搞不懂这个老郭想干嘛。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc6b6b91cd545601dffc1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q0921991320db489f0864","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":936,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T20:57:41.260Z","text":"他已经跌下神坛了，看他自己怎么翻身吧","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0921991320db489f0864","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q8bf00e2ebe42c06569ee","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":937,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T20:59:04.607Z","text":"要是最终真是被咱们给弄出来，那可真是有点让人无语","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8bf00e2ebe42c06569ee","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qab99efa6c6d1d57511fe","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":938,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-03-01T21:05:11.533Z","text":"这个天道到底是什么角色，天天拿法庭文件说事儿，又故意不点破\n\nhttps://x.com/tiandao7777/status/2028178734382006306?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qab99efa6c6d1d57511fe","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qb8d7ec159c52b330c1f6","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":939,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T00:06:45.085Z","text":"我看80%是这个可能","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8bf00e2ebe42c06569ee","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb8d7ec159c52b330c1f6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8bf00e2ebe42c06569ee","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qb1d4941194504192c5d2","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":940,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-03-02T00:15:15.792Z","text":"https://youtube.com/watch?v=Y8L8PWo79bo&si=K7fY7Rfu68VpJnoC","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb1d4941194504192c5d2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qc79d5fea9d60a4592a84","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":941,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-02T00:22:44.366Z","text":"他们的那套庞大的资料，陪审团根本就看不懂，再加上整个法庭就是一场司法表演，展现给公众，这是完整走完了正当程序，检方就是把他们忽悠住了。就算庭上证据都为真，证人没有撒谎，这也不构成法律意义上的犯罪。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q773ee1935b30130c9b6b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc79d5fea9d60a4592a84","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q773ee1935b30130c9b6b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q42b6e912035300e694a1","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":942,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T00:49:05.666Z","text":"南区对于立案的强制令，由于强制令立案理由都是cvra动议压制，所以南区玩的是程序游戏：  把二巡的强制令原件原封不动的上传到南区docket。 这里有两个问题： 1: 瑞恩的强制令本身没有redaction 结果南区一上传，暴露他所有pii 导致现在在网上被人用真实姓名威胁，并且南区此举污染了当年托雷斯自己对于保释的判罚，因为当年托雷斯根据郭支持者曝光luc地址，做为拒绝保释理由之一。现在法庭违规上传强制令原件，污染了record 2: 南区玩的是，我上传强制令原件你们虽然看到内容，所以你不能说我没上传，但是这不是南区的司法文件 在南区没有法律效力。 \n\n问题： 如果你立案就上传，虽然是违规，钻空子，但是你必须所有的都一样。 现在问题了来了，361 tony的重磅强制令 主权 身份冲突 没收资金冲突 和364的强制令 一个多星期没上传了。 这说明什么？是不是太重磅 连内容都不敢让大家看了？这是不是明目张胆的selective docketing？\n\n还要加一个因素： 四份强制令在二巡并案","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q42b6e912035300e694a1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q1e18ef73814f825d0f74","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":943,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-03-02T00:52:22.615Z","text":"把这个喂给机器人，又可以出一个二巡文件了。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q42b6e912035300e694a1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1e18ef73814f825d0f74","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q42b6e912035300e694a1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q9d7089effb20cc042c03","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":944,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T00:52:43.823Z","text":"瑞恩的文件已经排队了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1e18ef73814f825d0f74","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9d7089effb20cc042c03","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1e18ef73814f825d0f74","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q9af834a7ba398e5fdb72","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":945,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-03-02T01:17:05.696Z","text":"庭审时不让重磅证人上庭说是七哥为战友们着想放弃的，好让战友能做政治庇护，我都不知道这是什么逻辑，有人说过这个吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9af834a7ba398e5fdb72","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qc9c7633218c8ce2d0f54","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":946,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:17:22.249Z","text":"说了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9af834a7ba398e5fdb72","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc9c7633218c8ce2d0f54","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9af834a7ba398e5fdb72","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qb2f20682c9034005b948","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":947,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:17:26.106Z","text":"瑞恩34号文件","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb2f20682c9034005b948","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q93d2170a9c7fc50a1726","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":948,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:18:13.328Z","text":"我听说以前分享这个检方2选1的链接 有些已经下架了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9af834a7ba398e5fdb72","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q93d2170a9c7fc50a1726","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9af834a7ba398e5fdb72","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q1845015339ac02a7499b","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":949,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:18:25.736Z","text":"这个就是恐吓证人","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1845015339ac02a7499b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qf88f1543d888174624cb","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":950,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-03-02T01:18:36.554Z","text":"good  ,不过这还是得证人自己站出来说更有力吧？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf88f1543d888174624cb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q21cc99eefe4958b7474c","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":951,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:18:43.348Z","text":"寒蝉效应让联盟通过张永兵搞庇护的 不得参加法律程序","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q21cc99eefe4958b7474c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qac3de78145c2820d98e2","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":952,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-03-02T01:18:43.350Z","text":"那个视频下架了？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q93d2170a9c7fc50a1726","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qac3de78145c2820d98e2","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q93d2170a9c7fc50a1726","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qaf7f61ca36da27a2b200","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":953,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:18:50.921Z","text":"不是原视频","edited":false,"reply_to":"qac3de78145c2820d98e2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaf7f61ca36da27a2b200","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qac3de78145c2820d98e2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q7bdf26e29e708e98188d","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":954,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:19:02.249Z","text":"是转发的有些视频 已经删除了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7bdf26e29e708e98188d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q1b3918d3b481155fd3e8","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":955,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:19:22.837Z","text":"不用证人自己说","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf88f1543d888174624cb","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1b3918d3b481155fd3e8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf88f1543d888174624cb","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qea8b2e9c813ba5d864fa","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":956,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-03-02T01:19:24.137Z","text":"你都有保存的吧","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qea8b2e9c813ba5d864fa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qefd0f122da919b819b75","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":957,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:19:31.583Z","text":"木有🤣","edited":false,"reply_to":"qea8b2e9c813ba5d864fa","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qefd0f122da919b819b75","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qea8b2e9c813ba5d864fa","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qf7e1999aecd4b01b7dbc","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":958,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:19:41.055Z","text":"他们如果把原视频删除 更好","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf7e1999aecd4b01b7dbc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q3c3e6d803308d7171ab7","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":959,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:19:44.279Z","text":"那就是删除证据","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3c3e6d803308d7171ab7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q011e2a6b5f1b77c707f9","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":960,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:19:46.884Z","text":"销毁证据","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q011e2a6b5f1b77c707f9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qf44d28282331c5d0aab5","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":961,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:19:49.979Z","text":"抓包了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf44d28282331c5d0aab5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q1d785b498fdbe4e32287","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":962,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:20:27.986Z","text":"青藤 先用政治庇护 恐吓证人不得联系律师 不得自诉","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf88f1543d888174624cb","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1d785b498fdbe4e32287","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf88f1543d888174624cb","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q9678f0ad4d7a83a8a964","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":963,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:20:42.848Z","text":"几个月后 180度翻转 青藤自己宣传联系律师","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9678f0ad4d7a83a8a964","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q4c8e6654842114ffe6d6","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":964,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:20:47.669Z","text":"这不就是证人控制","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4c8e6654842114ffe6d6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q205f58e7867d4aa53fdb","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":965,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:20:50.677Z","text":"干扰司法","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q205f58e7867d4aa53fdb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qd4fd16f241fb25d71d4f","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":966,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:21:34.851Z","text":"张永兵最后再来一个画龙点睛 亲口说先联系联盟 联盟联系律师","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd4fd16f241fb25d71d4f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q1766b551b6898dc35958","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":967,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:21:44.496Z","text":"这帮人不知道这是要进监狱的？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1766b551b6898dc35958","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qb10309d5442fdff1402f","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":968,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-03-02T01:24:02.909Z","text":"盖特视频现在不能下载了？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb10309d5442fdff1402f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qad8d9a91c8233789538d","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":969,"speaker":"xin***","date":"2026-03-02T01:24:44.997Z","text":"赶紧判了吧 省的我买vpn","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qad8d9a91c8233789538d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q803d988b29e6da679056","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":970,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:25:58.110Z","text":"哈哈 不知道啊","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb10309d5442fdff1402f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q803d988b29e6da679056","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb10309d5442fdff1402f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q3a2485e7799779d2eeaf","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":971,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-02T01:28:07.591Z","text":"南区因为26-361，要掐断所有二巡动议的电源了？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q42b6e912035300e694a1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3a2485e7799779d2eeaf","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q42b6e912035300e694a1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qd11710bd97b3c07ade04","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":972,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-02T01:31:06.467Z","text":"受害人让共谋犯做政治庇护？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q21cc99eefe4958b7474c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd11710bd97b3c07ade04","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q21cc99eefe4958b7474c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q4cccd668ce9ca516176e","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":973,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-02T01:31:28.630Z","text":"这案子到处都是利益冲突","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4cccd668ce9ca516176e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qa8c5b4dc6f0641fa5762","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":974,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-02T01:31:57.636Z","text":"张勇兵律师执照还没吊销啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa8c5b4dc6f0641fa5762","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qc577bf9138b3f507a607","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":975,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:37:31.826Z","text":"张永兵共谋犯 联盟的人受害者 哈哈哈","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4cccd668ce9ca516176e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc577bf9138b3f507a607","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4cccd668ce9ca516176e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qf0a417492a7fcdc96b5f","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":976,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:37:44.424Z","text":"其实南区本就不该上传","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3a2485e7799779d2eeaf","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf0a417492a7fcdc96b5f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3a2485e7799779d2eeaf","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q8843c3ee60932179f111","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":977,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:37:50.109Z","text":"南区上传是违规的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8843c3ee60932179f111","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q1d7c373b95db6d4e43d8","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":978,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:37:57.278Z","text":"但是你既然上传了你就必须一直上传","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1d7c373b95db6d4e43d8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qac0223172d66c1af0f4e","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":979,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:38:26.164Z","text":"否则不就是selective docketing","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qac0223172d66c1af0f4e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q04535ccedc215dad9694","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":980,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:38:35.446Z","text":"这个案子 南区对record 管理 创造了历史最烂","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q04535ccedc215dad9694","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q39b1f4022e96e0852f2d","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":981,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-02T01:40:09.651Z","text":"一、首先明确一个核心法律事实：Second Circuit mandamus 本身不属于 SDNY 的“原始案件文件”\n当你向 Second Circuit 提交：\nPetition for Writ of Mandamus\n该 petition 的法律属性是：\n属于 Second Circuit appellate proceeding\n不属于 SDNY district court proceeding\n因此：\nSDNY 没有法律义务 docket Second Circuit mandamus petition\n除非：\nSecond Circuit 下达 order directing district court action\n或 petition 本身在 SDNY filed\n二、SDNY 上传 mandamus petition 的行为，本质属于“informational docketing”\n这种情况在联邦法院实践中被称为：\ninformational entry\n特点：\n不是 district court filing\n不产生 district court legal effect\n只是为了 record completeness\n因此：\n你说的这句话，在法律结构上是准确的：\n上传不等于 SDNY 承认其法律效力\n三、关键问题：为什么有的上传，有的没有？\n这是你真正关心的核心：\nRyan 的上传了\nTony 361 没上传\n364 没上传\n而且：\nSecond Circuit 已并案\n这确实产生一个程序问题：\n不一致 docketing\n四、法律上，这种情况可能有三种解释（按概率排序）\n第一种：书记官 discretionary administrative timing\n最常见原因：\nclerk office administrative delay\n原因包括：\nworkload\nstaffing\ninternal routing\n并案后：\nclerk 可能等待 consolidated record\n这种情况非常常见\n第二种：Second Circuit 未正式 transmission\nDistrict court 通常通过：\nSecond Circuit transmission\n或\ndistrict court internal routing\n获得 document\n如果 transmission 没完成：\nSDNY 不会 docket\n第三种：selective docketing（你提出的理论）\n这个理论在法律上属于：\nprocedural irregularity allegation\n但要成立，需要满足：\npattern\n和\nintent evidence\n仅仅 delay 本身：\n不足以证明 selective docketing\n五、关于你提到的 PII 暴露问题\n这是一个更严肃的程序问题\n联邦法院有明确规则：\nFRCP 5.2\n必须 redaction：\n包括：\nfull name\naddress\nSSN\nDOB\n如果 court docket publicly exposes unredacted PII：\n通常：\n责任在 filing party\n不是 clerk\n除非：\nclerk violated sealing order\n六、你提到的“record contamination”问题\n你说：\nTorres previously relied on exposure conduct in bail decision\n现在 court exposure PII\n是否污染 record？\n法律上：\n不会 automatically invalidate prior bail decision\n原因：\n时间顺序不同\nbail decision based on earlier facts\n不是 later court conduct\n七、最关键问题：\n是不是 selective docketing？\n法律标准是：\n必须证明：\nsimilarly situated filings treated differently\nAND\nintentional discrimination or arbitrary conduct\n仅仅：\ndelay\n不足够\n但：\n如果长期完全不 docket\n可能成为：\nprocedural fairness argument","edited":false,"reply_to":"q42b6e912035300e694a1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q39b1f4022e96e0852f2d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q42b6e912035300e694a1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q0ae44ad0a1b597e91b13","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":982,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-03-02T01:43:38.383Z","text":"没有捐款也能投资不是正好打破检方叙事？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q60ccf0b5ba8243adc6b2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ae44ad0a1b597e91b13","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q60ccf0b5ba8243adc6b2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q88f546cb5ebe24557cd9","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":983,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T01:51:33.947Z","text":"你问问 量刑前几周还不docket 是否是selective docketing 因为tony影响量刑","edited":false,"reply_to":"q39b1f4022e96e0852f2d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q88f546cb5ebe24557cd9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q39b1f4022e96e0852f2d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q83b5b6177ca6dfbc7353","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":984,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-02T01:57:53.604Z","text":"她目的不是分析 是吓唬那些收钱的农场主和300骨干 意思是 你们都犯罪被Rico 要乖乖听话 不能发声说出洗钱细节","edited":false,"reply_to":"qab99efa6c6d1d57511fe","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q83b5b6177ca6dfbc7353","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qab99efa6c6d1d57511fe","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q9099412859d85a598202","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":985,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-02T02:08:03.085Z","text":"钱也不用退 万一郭判了牢底座穿 就没事了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9099412859d85a598202","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q93896369a05cdb33357b","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":986,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-02T02:36:39.089Z","text":"前期的GTV投资必须捐ROL 源头已经被污染","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0ae44ad0a1b597e91b13","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q93896369a05cdb33357b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ae44ad0a1b597e91b13","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qe0ba7ab7d1ea1ab6f08f","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":987,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-02T02:38:25.950Z","text":"应该说 \n他帮那些人做政庇 在前\n当郭案共谋犯 在后\n用这个作为要挟 听他们的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc577bf9138b3f507a607","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe0ba7ab7d1ea1ab6f08f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc577bf9138b3f507a607","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q2ec66f3a6db20a63cbac","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":988,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T02:39:36.310Z","text":"是的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe0ba7ab7d1ea1ab6f08f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2ec66f3a6db20a63cbac","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe0ba7ab7d1ea1ab6f08f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q3c4c2f51a08d309f3e9d","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":989,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-02T02:43:26.322Z","text":"这个和那300骨干 收ROL的转账 一样的道理\n已经上了贼船 再威胁暗示一下 Rico 共谋 取消政庇 没人敢发声","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3c4c2f51a08d309f3e9d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qc3d4880a66b3261be2cf","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":990,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-02T02:46:45.619Z","text":"其实被登记的共谋 就那么几个而已 那300是傻X法盲","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc3d4880a66b3261be2cf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qf94a87863a6005da588e","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":991,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T02:55:55.905Z","text":"张永兵最近那期直播是线上的还是现场？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf94a87863a6005da588e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qb48168acfdd249237458","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":992,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T02:56:04.258Z","text":"我们看看张什么时候跑路","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb48168acfdd249237458","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qb75df291325beeac76a5","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":993,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-02T02:56:43.200Z","text":"ROL的捐款 本来是要用在各项灭共活动的 但最后成了给300骨干的封口费 去灭郭\n这和墙内把郭的资产没收 用于灭爆组的经费 一样的道理","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb75df291325beeac76a5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qfe5bc3575a467b96b7d6","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":994,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-02T02:58:06.640Z","text":"好像是线上 电话连线没露面\n应该已经意识到问题严重性","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf94a87863a6005da588e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfe5bc3575a467b96b7d6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf94a87863a6005da588e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qe9f563b983ee54b2a663","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":995,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-02T03:04:04.625Z","text":"哈哈！！ 估计在阿布扎比了！！","edited":false,"reply_to":"qfe5bc3575a467b96b7d6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe9f563b983ee54b2a663","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfe5bc3575a467b96b7d6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qbc1058ee84eac918a54b","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":996,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-02T03:38:10.036Z","text":"适合跟[删节：成员身份] ［用户 chu***］ 皈依基督教","edited":true,"reply_to":"qdca69bb3756c6a625a33","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbc1058ee84eac918a54b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q34406e2516f83594dae7","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":997,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-02T03:43:31.748Z","text":"一、关键法律点：Second Circuit mandamus 是否在 SDNY docket，并不决定其法律存在或效力\nmandamus petition：\n属于 Second Circuit 案件\n不是 SDNY 原始 filing\n因此：\nSDNY docket 与否，不影响 mandamus 本身的法律存在\nSecond Circuit 可以在任何时候采取行动，例如：\n要求政府回应\n要求 district judge 回应\n或直接裁定\n换句话说：\nmandamus 对量刑可能产生的法律影响，取决于 Second Circuit，而不是 SDNY docket\n二、为什么量刑前未 docket 会引发“程序公平”的疑问（但仍需更高证明标准）\n在法律理论上，如果满足以下条件，才可能构成 serious procedural concern：\n例如：\n同一时期提交的类似 mandamus\n有的被 SDNY docket\n有的长期未 docket\n且无合理行政解释\n这可能引发：\nprocedural irregularity concern\n但注意：\ndelay 本身不自动等于 selective docketing\n联邦法院 clerk office 有较大 administrative discretion。\n三、更关键的现实法律因素：量刑是否受这些 mandamus 影响，不取决于 SDNY docket，而取决于 Second Circuit 是否采取行动\n量刑是否受 mandamus 影响，关键看：\nSecond Circuit 是否：\nissued stay of sentencing\n或\nissued order affecting district court\n如果没有 stay：\ndistrict court legally 可以继续量刑\n即使 mandamus pending\n四、联邦法院实践中，mandamus pending 同时 sentencing proceeding 的情况并不少见\nSecond Circuit mandamus：\n属于 extraordinary remedy\n标准非常高\npending 本身：\n不会 automatically pause sentencing\n除非 Second Circuit issued stay\n五、关于你提到的“是否因为影响量刑而未 docket”的问题\n从法律角度：\n要证明这一点，需要 evidence 显示：\nintentional suppression\n例如：\n内部 communication\n明确 refusal\n单纯：\n时间接近量刑\n本身：\n不足以证明 intentional selective docketing\n六、需要特别注意的一个更重要现实点\n即使 SDNY docket：\ndistrict judge 也未必必须在量刑前处理 mandamus 内容\n因为：\nmandamus jurisdiction 在 Second Circuit\n不是 district court\n七、真正可能影响量刑的法律机制只有几个：\n1\nSecond Circuit stay\n这是最直接的\n2\nSecond Circuit order directing district court\n例如：\naddress issue before sentencing\n3\nSecond Circuit decision granting mandamus\n如果这些没有发生：\ndistrict court legally 可以 proceed sentencing\n八、总结（严格法律角度）\n可以归纳为：\n1\n量刑前未 docket mandamus\n本身不 automatically 违法\n2\n不 automatically 构成 legally provable selective docketing\n除非有进一步 evidence\n3\nmandamus 是否影响量刑\n取决于 Second Circuit action\n不是 SDNY docket\n4\nSecond Circuit consolidation 本身表明：\nSecond Circuit 已 aware\n九、客观现实判断（程序意义上）\n真正关键的 docket 是：\nSecond Circuit docket\n不是 SDNY docket\n十、如果从程序策略角度理解（纯程序结构，不涉及动机推测）\nSDNY docket：\n对 mandamus 法律效力不是必要条件\nSecond Circuit：\n才是 controlling court","edited":false,"reply_to":"q88f546cb5ebe24557cd9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q34406e2516f83594dae7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q88f546cb5ebe24557cd9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q05e15b2c1b61b3d8fbf0","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":998,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-03-02T03:50:34.181Z","text":"郭要是被判了，他们的境遇不是更惨？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q83b5b6177ca6dfbc7353","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q05e15b2c1b61b3d8fbf0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q83b5b6177ca6dfbc7353","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"qf4ac755a0252c1943c79","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":999,"speaker":"xin***","date":"2026-03-02T03:51:28.809Z","text":"你们口袋里有钱 当然积极啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf4ac755a0252c1943c79","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"},{"id":"q0cb3db279fefd6fcc173","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":1000,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-03-02T03:53:58.815Z","text":"哥们，一切都会好起来的。\n人活着真的需要有希望，这不是一句空话。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q37cdae233bf6d807bd3c","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0cb3db279fefd6fcc173","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085"}],"prev_batch_id":"batch-000084","next_batch_id":"batch-000086"}