{"id":"batch-000099","number":99,"revision":1,"date_start":"2026-04-07T11:57:28.474Z","date_end":"2026-04-09T11:07:24.872Z","total_messages":1000,"summary_en":"Community discussion, batch 099 (Apr 7, 2026 – Apr 9, 2026), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Batch-99 focused on the Guo matter after-conviction and bankruptcy crossover, mainly debating victim status and conspiracy boundaries, court-role allocation, and procedural records like 364/441/853N, 1195, CRVA, and Wang-case-linked forfeiture references. Participants disputed whether entity-labeling (including G Enterprise and related nominees) is evidence-based, whether loss figures are verified, and whether service/filing lapses justify substantive relief. The thread remained heavily interpretive: many claims were framed as conjecture, while others argued the process flaws were material but unproven. Community statements, not court findings.","guide_en":[{"title":"Victim identity and conspiracy boundaries: who counts as victim or co-conspirator","description":"Participants argued over who can be counted as a victim or co-conspirator, with claims that alleged victim status was overstated and that only authorized figures should be treated as such, while others framed prosecution narrative choices as setting up later restitution positioning. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qf912d45c7ccb4e631475","qbaaf62466e197f5dff26","q1e3b868bf05ee157e1e3"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qf912d45c7ccb4e631475","summary_en":"One participant contended the prosecution appeared to ignore the issue and that this allowed someone to pose as a victim, which they saw as a contested procedural characterization. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qbaaf62466e197f5dff26","summary_en":"A participant disputed that anyone had authority to replace a party, arguing there was no authorization and no registered legal-person status. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q1e3b868bf05ee157e1e3","summary_en":"A participant claimed the prosecution was effectively acting as a victim to secure conviction and then reframing outcomes into pardon or restitution language at payout stage. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Trustee, bankruptcy court, and criminal court boundary: role allocation and litigation eligibility","description":"Participants argued that filing-track jurisdiction was unclear, with debate over whether a docket was bankruptcy or Southern District control and whether Luc and related trustees had standing to be treated as primary actors. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q5af3b52f90d9d529bcec","q24db727b1724a26d58f8","qf59ad08a0599e5e49e07"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q5af3b52f90d9d529bcec","summary_en":"A participant asked directly whether the court handling matters was bankruptcy court or the Southern District, highlighting docket-role ambiguity. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q24db727b1724a26d58f8","summary_en":"Another participant asserted Luc has standing, signaling a claim to procedural legitimacy in the proceeding. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qf59ad08a0599e5e49e07","summary_en":"One message relayed that public reporting described the responsible trustee as tied to the bankruptcy matter, which some used to support a court-role interpretation. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Second-appeal positioning dispute: procedural reconsideration or substantive re-argument","description":"Participants contested whether the second-level review was merely procedural or should engage factual and merits issues, with one side saying it ignored complaints and another saying no procedural defect was found. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q9b84a80820fe3e25ded8","qfd741f182ec12c51f711","q298ac9d9ee6a9e622ff2"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q9b84a80820fe3e25ded8","summary_en":"A participant argued that the second-tier court was not engaging with the disputed points. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qfd741f182ec12c51f711","summary_en":"Another participant contended that the second court denied relief because it did not identify procedural error. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q298ac9d9ee6a9e622ff2","summary_en":"A later participant argued that once a third party appears, Luc must show up, while also claiming prosecutors were preparing fallback tracks tied to forfeiture timing and depletion concerns. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Procedural compliance focus: whether 364/441/853N are filed and late filing effects","description":"Participants argued that timely record-building was unresolved, citing failures to upload filings such as 364, 441, and 853N and debating whether notices or motions to add the record could compel correction. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qe41f0156d6fc44959559","q45ce3408ecfb8fdfc8a0","q3dd13704cf3e65bcc200"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qe41f0156d6fc44959559","summary_en":"One participant described filing a Torres motion alleging bias and injustice after one record was uploaded for one party but not 853N, and said a motion to include 364 drew no response. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q45ce3408ecfb8fdfc8a0","summary_en":"Another participant suggested serving a notice to the second-level court about the South District’s failure to upload the opening-notice filing. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q3dd13704cf3e65bcc200","summary_en":"A participant stated plainly that filings 364 and 441 had still not been uploaded. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Service and consolidation notice anomalies: postmarks, origins, and duplicate delivery","description":"Participants disputed whether consolidation notices were duplicate and irregular, with arguments over source court, postmark timing, and whether repeated paper service weakened reliability. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qbfe3eea86e23a7b16f1b","q816a49ebfc7f3ece9338","qf90fcc9dceb2c76052ba"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qbfe3eea86e23a7b16f1b","summary_en":"A participant reported receiving another consolidation notice with a February 27 postmark and noted the same type of notice had already been received earlier. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q816a49ebfc7f3ece9338","summary_en":"Another participant questioned whether the prior notice came from the second court while the latest seemed issued by the Southern District. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qf90fcc9dceb2c76052ba","summary_en":"A participant added that the earlier notice had also been delivered in paper form, reinforcing doubt about handling consistency. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Alter ego and G Enterprise/HK attribution as alleged evidence reshaping","description":"Participants disputed whether grouping G-series entities into one construct amounted to an evidentiary stretch, with claims prosecutors were using a single control label to make broader attribution and avoid entity-level proof. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q95e554bb1fc4da798e66","qbac92c6000232e4cbc60","q04a10e2d34f5064f6959"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q95e554bb1fc4da798e66","summary_en":"A participant argued the prosecution bundled separate G-series entities into one unit, describing this as an unsupported conceptual shift. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qbac92c6000232e4cbc60","summary_en":"The same participant stated the point of that bundling was to claim Guo controlled everything. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q04a10e2d34f5064f6959","summary_en":"A participant argued the Guo matter involved both bankruptcy and criminal cases of different types and that one side was cross-referencing indictments rather than proving every point. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Control and nominee disputes: Liannong, ACA/Himalaya, and Lady May money trail","description":"Participants disputed whether entities were nominee structures tied to Guo or independent channels, with one side repeatedly pressing alter-ego inferences and another pointing to cashflow destination as inconsistent with that theory. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q048a79d19b17fe91369f","q530fb68d00b8a86c48cb","qc5ebf3dfdfc73b91c215"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q048a79d19b17fe91369f","summary_en":"A participant asked whether Liannong was effectively Guo’s alter ego, putting control attribution at issue. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q530fb68d00b8a86c48cb","summary_en":"Another participant contended funds routed through the farm ultimately reached the farm owner’s pocket and were not used by Guo’s family, disputing nominee-control inference. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qc5ebf3dfdfc73b91c215","summary_en":"A participant queried whether Lady May had been funded by Guo, further challenging the control chain narrative. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Victim counts and amount basis: 5.5 billion/13 billion and list reliability","description":"Participants argued that victim counts and loss scale were unresolved, with one view demanding auditable line-item losses and another disputing whether named representatives qualified as victims; disputes over totals remained unresolved and contested. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qa2f39f6fe886d2989556","q04115b734ee187142d45","qf3879edcad6d456fc74e"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qa2f39f6fe886d2989556","summary_en":"A participant stated legal standards require each victim to have specific, auditable loss figures and a clear list. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q04115b734ee187142d45","summary_en":"Another participant reported the defense repeatedly arguing that certain represented parties were not victims. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qf3879edcad6d456fc74e","summary_en":"A participant claimed the roster may include only 50 registered victims, which was used to challenge total-headcount assumptions. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Core evidence verifiability: 1111 materials, transcripts, and Luc disclosure","description":"Participants claimed critical evidence needed verification, demanding access to 1111 documents and arguing that transcript evidence was more reliable than unsupported commentary, while some doubted what Luc had actually submitted. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q14d6b437546724ac83d7","q6558f56a92b1c8482890","qac4c73a4e9db7a957997"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q14d6b437546724ac83d7","summary_en":"A participant simply asked that the 1111 file be released and offered to forward it to a legal-file room. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q6558f56a92b1c8482890","summary_en":"Another participant said the 1111 record appeared in filing 1195 and dismissed one person’s claims as unreliable while noting UBS evidence as present. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qac4c73a4e9db7a957997","summary_en":"A participant asked what evidence Luc had actually filed, indicating doubt over disclosure completeness. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Sentencing strategy and narrative conflict: 175 years to \"at least 30\" and timing pressure","description":"Participants argued over sentencing narrative and political framing, from demands for extremely long terms to tactical downscaling, with competing claims that advocacy aimed at victim optics and payment-driven pressure rather than legal calibration. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qf9106adb9107c582083c","qf9c539c11b00a2903f94","qf4a36f6b585cc387ab52"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qf9106adb9107c582083c","summary_en":"A participant argued that the sentencing should attribute all disaster-causing conduct to the defendant and move directly to a 175-year target for dramatic effect. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qf9c539c11b00a2903f94","summary_en":"Another participant stated the demand reportedly shifted from 175 years to a floor of at least 30 years. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qf4a36f6b585cc387ab52","summary_en":"A participant suggested a 6,000-person figure was aimed at victim-count expansion, partly to support criminal evidence and partially to support payments in bankruptcy context. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Forfeiture scope: false claims, restitution, and remission definition","description":"Participants disputed the legal end-state of forfeiture and whether it was effectively framed through restitution or remission, with claims that Wang-case logic drove the method and that timing weakened enforcement. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q8f48ea6af7255635794a","q4d76fc1785cb71bf99d4","q7e06caae83d74faab8e1"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q8f48ea6af7255635794a","summary_en":"A participant accused the process of violating judicial integrity. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q4d76fc1785cb71bf99d4","summary_en":"Another participant endorsed the disputed forfeiture position in a short acknowledgement, indicating partial agreement with the prior claim. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q7e06caae83d74faab8e1","summary_en":"A participant laid out a three-step view: forfeiture scope and amounts derive from the Wang case, the defense challenged forfeiture late, and both 853N/CRVA paths were seen as ultimately channeling to remission rather than restitution. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Discussion style shift: group rules, labeling, and consensus inference overtaking evidence checking","description":"Participants argued over moderation and tone, with community rules pushing anti-harassment constraints, while others felt compliance pressure and enemy-labeling were overshadowing fact-checking of legal claims. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q54128f5abebae0ac6451","q22c6304a5ead6d6b7fa0","q3373c10a213598d83fb9"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q54128f5abebae0ac6451","summary_en":"An administrator posted multi-point group rules restricting off-topic posts and prohibiting label-based accusations without evidence, with escalation paths for repeated violations. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q22c6304a5ead6d6b7fa0","summary_en":"A participant shared an external social post link as part of the broader debate. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q3373c10a213598d83fb9","summary_en":"Another participant said they were only trying to file a private complaint and objected to being treated as an enemy. Community statements, not court findings."}]}],"summary":"本期讨论围绕后续庭审和破产交叉程序展开，主要争点高度分散但可归为三条主线：其一是身份定性与事实边界，包括受害者/代表、共谋、代持及alter ego的认定是否成立；其二是程序与证据效力，围绕文件提交、送达、密封材料、法院角色分工、二巡性质及上诉标准是否允许介入展开激烈争论；其三是财产追缴与量刑方向，涉及联农、ACA/Himalaya、Lady May等链条及金额口径是否可直接支持追缴与刑责强化。多数观点未形成一致答案，讨论中大量出现“需核验、未充分证实、仅为叙事解读”等表述，且对检方动机、律师策略与司法体系公信力的解释差异明显。","guide":[{"title":"受害者身份与共谋边界：是谁可被算入受害者/共谋犯","message_ids":["qf912d45c7ccb4e631475","qbaaf62466e197f5dff26","q1e3b868bf05ee157e1e3"]},{"title":"受托人、破产庭与刑事庭边界：角色定位与诉讼资格拉锯","message_ids":["q5af3b52f90d9d529bcec","q24db727b1724a26d58f8","qf59ad08a0599e5e49e07"]},{"title":"二巡上诉定位之争：程序复议还是案件实质重审","message_ids":["q9b84a80820fe3e25ded8","qfd741f182ec12c51f711","q298ac9d9ee6a9e622ff2"]},{"title":"程序合规焦点：364/441/853N是否入卷与逾期效力","message_ids":["qe41f0156d6fc44959559","q45ce3408ecfb8fdfc8a0","q3dd13704cf3e65bcc200"]},{"title":"送达与并案通知异常：邮戳、来源与重复送达被持续质疑","message_ids":["qbfe3eea86e23a7b16f1b","q816a49ebfc7f3ece9338","qf90fcc9dceb2c76052ba"]},{"title":"alter ego与G Enterprise及HK归属是否构成“证据重组”","message_ids":["q95e554bb1fc4da798e66","qbac92c6000232e4cbc60","q04a10e2d34f5064f6959"]},{"title":"实控与代持争议：联农、ACA/Himalaya及Lady May资金链","message_ids":["q048a79d19b17fe91369f","q530fb68d00b8a86c48cb","qc5ebf3dfdfc73b91c215"]},{"title":"受害者人数与金额口径：5.5亿/13亿与清单可信度分歧","message_ids":["qa2f39f6fe886d2989556","q04115b734ee187142d45","qf3879edcad6d456fc74e"]},{"title":"核心证据可核验性：1111材料、笔录与Luc披露是否公开","message_ids":["q14d6b437546724ac83d7","q6558f56a92b1c8482890","qac4c73a4e9db7a957997"]},{"title":"量刑策略与叙事争议：175年到“至少30年”与择时施压","message_ids":["qf9106adb9107c582083c","qf9c539c11b00a2903f94","qf4a36f6b585cc387ab52"]},{"title":"追缴没收范围：虚假债权、restiution与remission如何界定","message_ids":["q8f48ea6af7255635794a","q4d76fc1785cb71bf99d4","q7e06caae83d74faab8e1"]},{"title":"讨论风格转向：群规、标签化与“共识推断”压过证据核验","message_ids":["q54128f5abebae0ac6451","q22c6304a5ead6d6b7fa0","q3373c10a213598d83fb9"]}],"closed":true,"is_finalized":true,"updated_at":"2026-09-06T17:35:12.666Z","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_batch","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099/pages/2","base_batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000099?page=2","page":2,"page_size":200,"total_pages":5,"has_more":true,"next_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000099?page=3","prev_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000099","messages":[{"id":"q488b0b749dde6a67f5d6","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":201,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T16:09:32.871Z","text":"二巡要用判例法","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q488b0b749dde6a67f5d6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q1314c1533f6e24206582","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":202,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:09:36.434Z","text":"没收是刑事案 包括整个G enterprise\n郭又是alter ego\nLuc根据这个 要把G enterprise 都拿去破产庭\n[删节：隐私信息]","edited":true,"reply_to":"qaf7b3d716d49270a476d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1314c1533f6e24206582","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaf7b3d716d49270a476d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q48b90384f65c865fb44c","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":203,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T16:09:42.651Z","text":"咱们能不能把Luc钩出来","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q48b90384f65c865fb44c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q40e67bc21e1bebf5aec9","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":204,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T16:09:46.662Z","text":"但这个案子luc是被告","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q40e67bc21e1bebf5aec9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qb6c494b5161f919925fb","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":205,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T16:09:54.044Z","text":"刑事案luc是第三方","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb6c494b5161f919925fb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q98e43729ac352f87227b","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":206,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T16:10:24.590Z","text":"郭美这个案子是单独起诉的Luc？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q40e67bc21e1bebf5aec9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q98e43729ac352f87227b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q40e67bc21e1bebf5aec9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q00fd18d3b0f6f3cd43f2","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":207,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T16:10:31.704Z","text":"是吧","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q00fd18d3b0f6f3cd43f2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qb58722da83347db4c28f","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":208,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T16:10:49.070Z","text":"不是说是破产案吗，那Luc只是受托人","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb58722da83347db4c28f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qf59ad08a0599e5e49e07","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":209,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T16:11:16.961Z","text":"新闻说了负责破产的受托人","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf59ad08a0599e5e49e07","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qe77bba89e41960674e5e","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":210,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T16:11:26.744Z","text":"郭美告luc把","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe77bba89e41960674e5e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q66afc31b4426082553c7","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":211,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T16:11:45.169Z","text":"这个谁能看全文","edited":false,"reply_to":"q509a3eb20f731b4db8e7","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q66afc31b4426082553c7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q509a3eb20f731b4db8e7","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q03528229630a2c15101d","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":212,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:12:45.941Z","text":"Luc要拿走郭美名下的HK investment\n认为这个也是郭的alter ego","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf59ad08a0599e5e49e07","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q03528229630a2c15101d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf59ad08a0599e5e49e07","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q5c26004d909b83bab6d0","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":213,"speaker":"zha***","date":"2026-04-07T16:13:12.058Z","text":"那假郭美，也不一定是假的了！？\n上庭的郭美，有提到联盟吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1314c1533f6e24206582","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5c26004d909b83bab6d0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1314c1533f6e24206582","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q314773da2f9f35f1106d","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":214,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:13:55.915Z","text":"没有联盟\n那个天天发盖特的 肯定是假\n她爹都说了Luc最重要\n她也知道诉Luc 对她爹有用\n我在等最新盖特 然后打青他们的脸","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5c26004d909b83bab6d0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q314773da2f9f35f1106d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5c26004d909b83bab6d0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qbdfac87555f791228527","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":215,"speaker":"zha***","date":"2026-04-07T16:16:08.807Z","text":"想不到，真郭美还是不得不介入法庭，\n要么郭先生开始真反击了，\n要么是当下真的实在没辙了。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbdfac87555f791228527","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qda10e1463101f4618e76","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":216,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:17:55.356Z","text":"这个是康区破产法庭的案件号：5:22-bk-50073 [删节：隐私信息] [删节：隐私信息] 你们可以去二巡查一下","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qda10e1463101f4618e76","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q9d4849710c4dc21ced79","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":217,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T16:17:59.152Z","text":"不是上庭，是交动议吧","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5c26004d909b83bab6d0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9d4849710c4dc21ced79","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5c26004d909b83bab6d0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q80fbe4a901c99ad2cd88","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":218,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T16:18:26.132Z","text":"50073就是老郭的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q80fbe4a901c99ad2cd88","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q8cd073006b818ce28819","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":219,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T16:18:34.893Z","text":"我现在没电脑，你来看看","edited":false,"reply_to":"qda10e1463101f4618e76","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8cd073006b818ce28819","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qda10e1463101f4618e76","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q0e08ab79331deec98f3e","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":220,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T16:18:44.863Z","text":"郭美那个在二巡不知道案件号 只知道in re kwok","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0e08ab79331deec98f3e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q74ec2dee15056051bcc6","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":221,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:18:51.456Z","text":"我估计luk提交的证据，是不是都是郭的直播用游艇的视频","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q74ec2dee15056051bcc6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q575448e47548f5afd5f2","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":222,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:19:08.360Z","text":"可能还有其他的法庭命令之类的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q575448e47548f5afd5f2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qde03c80410dbe2981c13","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":223,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:19:21.341Z","text":"有没有刑事庭的命令？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qde03c80410dbe2981c13","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q90b80130623443dc0ce0","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":224,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:19:27.691Z","text":"可以去看看","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q90b80130623443dc0ce0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q82391d1d98084c6b2e3b","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":225,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:19:47.263Z","text":"有","edited":false,"reply_to":"qde03c80410dbe2981c13","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q82391d1d98084c6b2e3b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qde03c80410dbe2981c13","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q6b46e1ba525303f4eb48","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":226,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:20:00.534Z","text":"提到了刑事案号","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6b46e1ba525303f4eb48","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q8798d3cf2c014f9996db","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":227,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:20:06.723Z","text":"你要去二巡的pacer 看郭美怎么上诉的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8798d3cf2c014f9996db","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q32a331192e5062128a77","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":228,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:20:23.788Z","text":"然后看看luc提供了什么证据","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q32a331192e5062128a77","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q9bd89ddb673e25458f02","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":229,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:20:33.554Z","text":"没什么 就是扯皮\n根据郭是郭美她爹 然后认为郭美的公司 也是郭的alter ego\n就是瞎扯淡","edited":false,"reply_to":"q32a331192e5062128a77","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9bd89ddb673e25458f02","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q32a331192e5062128a77","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q5e16ae9d57143857d472","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":230,"speaker":"zha***","date":"2026-04-07T16:20:38.565Z","text":"说受托人用了“大量证据”反驳郭美观点。 在第二巡回法庭。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3d225ede5c2f47fdebe0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5e16ae9d57143857d472","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3d225ede5c2f47fdebe0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qeda7fe1148dcb8116b1b","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":231,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T16:21:05.871Z","text":"郭美要是聪明点 就该接受a先生的说媒 把螺丝哥变成法律头号顾问 🤣","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeda7fe1148dcb8116b1b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q9fdb685baa73cd54dc81","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":232,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:21:16.104Z","text":"郭美早就在法庭上了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbdfac87555f791228527","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9fdb685baa73cd54dc81","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbdfac87555f791228527","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q38568a684d8d3f2c0515","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":233,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:21:48.849Z","text":"二巡可以用地区法院的案件号反向查询","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0e08ab79331deec98f3e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q38568a684d8d3f2c0515","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0e08ab79331deec98f3e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q5994bc425a86e027d1bd","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":234,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T16:21:58.097Z","text":"破产案的上诉庭也是二巡","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5e16ae9d57143857d472","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5994bc425a86e027d1bd","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5e16ae9d57143857d472","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qf0f74f1021081ed90629","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":235,"speaker":"zha***","date":"2026-04-07T16:22:01.180Z","text":"女儿的资产，受托人luc，甚至二巡，认为算父亲郭先生的。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4333b4c4bca877144182","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf0f74f1021081ed90629","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4333b4c4bca877144182","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qc36ccb5e10ea4c2ae84d","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":236,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:23:03.707Z","text":"破产案，luc肯定要应诉啊","edited":false,"reply_to":"q725aae27205285183793","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc36ccb5e10ea4c2ae84d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q725aae27205285183793","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q1a665ca722018963273f","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":237,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:23:20.587Z","text":"所以 青们就是忽悠\n债权人天天和被告女儿打交道？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9fdb685baa73cd54dc81","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1a665ca722018963273f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9fdb685baa73cd54dc81","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q459ff379bd60ac0e2487","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":238,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:23:39.418Z","text":"也不是luc本人，是luc手下的一堆律师","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q459ff379bd60ac0e2487","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q375c372e7c9a8645a0dc","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":239,"speaker":"zha***","date":"2026-04-07T16:23:50.146Z","text":"是的，我是指的郭美在法庭提交动议。\n就像我们说chunk螺丝哥已经上庭了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9d4849710c4dc21ced79","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q375c372e7c9a8645a0dc","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9d4849710c4dc21ced79","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qd6e92ac0846bce136a92","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":240,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:24:06.754Z","text":"哦","edited":false,"reply_to":"q375c372e7c9a8645a0dc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd6e92ac0846bce136a92","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q375c372e7c9a8645a0dc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qd73054ba1693df0fb33c","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":241,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:24:26.076Z","text":"郭美，[删节：成员身份]，还有郭的保镖都上诉了","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd73054ba1693df0fb33c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qc3ea510c72f6b72c81bf","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":242,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:24:44.625Z","text":"保镖是[删节：成员身份]","edited":true,"reply_to":"qd73054ba1693df0fb33c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc3ea510c72f6b72c81bf","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd73054ba1693df0fb33c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qe3189c5e305581c0211b","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":243,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:24:54.377Z","text":"对啊","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc3ea510c72f6b72c81bf","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe3189c5e305581c0211b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc3ea510c72f6b72c81bf","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q83a818602192f28d44b6","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":244,"speaker":"zha***","date":"2026-04-07T16:25:06.508Z","text":"有可能。那个18楼也可能是这个判断。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q74ec2dee15056051bcc6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q83a818602192f28d44b6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q74ec2dee15056051bcc6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qbddf43f0a3ad319f1171","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":245,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:25:18.840Z","text":"这个Luc扯大蛋","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe3189c5e305581c0211b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbddf43f0a3ad319f1171","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe3189c5e305581c0211b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q5f04f01818c3e754b1b0","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":246,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:25:51.893Z","text":"把保镖的公司 也扯成郭的alter ego\n感觉和郭美的一个套路","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5f04f01818c3e754b1b0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q76ae613da9b39771b2e3","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":247,"speaker":"zha***","date":"2026-04-07T16:26:20.098Z","text":"所以郭美是在破产案里上的二巡！？\n而不是我们目前的刑事案里！？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8798d3cf2c014f9996db","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q76ae613da9b39771b2e3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8798d3cf2c014f9996db","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qf173fb158f4ada104e80","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":248,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:27:15.989Z","text":"因为破产案里 Luc 要没收郭美的公司啊","edited":false,"reply_to":"q76ae613da9b39771b2e3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf173fb158f4ada104e80","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q76ae613da9b39771b2e3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qf77028f64fa9c60b4f7b","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":249,"speaker":"zha***","date":"2026-04-07T16:27:39.488Z","text":"这个早就 ，是指的康州法院破产案 那时候吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9fdb685baa73cd54dc81","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf77028f64fa9c60b4f7b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9fdb685baa73cd54dc81","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qf2266e7c3680f2ff35c6","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":250,"speaker":"zha***","date":"2026-04-07T16:28:42.980Z","text":"普恒律师事务所","edited":false,"reply_to":"q459ff379bd60ac0e2487","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf2266e7c3680f2ff35c6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q459ff379bd60ac0e2487","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q91f5d3bf3e42a5529bfe","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":251,"speaker":"zha***","date":"2026-04-07T16:31:04.536Z","text":"［用户 ntp***］  那我们在刑事案里，根本无法激活luc，对吧。我们在南区刑事案这条线。\n这条线里，luc是不是可以不在乎","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q91f5d3bf3e42a5529bfe","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qe602ebfaf82e0663057b","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":252,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:35:12.130Z","text":"法院： 美国第二巡回上诉法院\n案件： In re Kwok（案号 24-2504）\n判决日期： 2026年4月6日\n结果： 上诉法院维持原判\n\n核心争议问题\n受托人是否具有诉讼资格（Standing）\n即：第11章破产受托人是否可以代表债权人提出“揭开公司面纱（反向）/替身公司（alter ego）”主张。\nHK公司是否属于郭文贵的“替身公司”\n若是，其资产是否应纳入破产财产。\n法院主要结论\n一、管辖权（Jurisdiction）\n虽然案件最初并非终局裁定，但受托人在口头辩论中同意放弃剩余请求，使案件具备终局性。\n因此，上诉法院具有管辖权。 \n二、受托人具有起诉资格\n根据《美国破产法》第 544条（强臂条款）：\n受托人可以以“假想债权人”的身份，主张债权人本可提出的权利。\n反向揭开公司面纱（reverse veil piercing）属于“普遍性（general）请求”：\n该类请求会扩大可供所有债权人分配的资产池。\n因此：\n受托人可以代表全体债权人提出该类主张。 \n法院要点：\n区分两类请求：\n普遍性请求（general claims）→ 受托人可提出\n个别性请求（personal claims）→ 仅特定债权人可提出\n三、HK公司构成郭文贵的“替身公司”\n法院认定证据充分，HK实为“空壳公司”，具体包括：\n1. 公司结构异常\n无员工、无高管、无收入、无银行账户\n无真实经营活动\n仅持有游艇（Lady May 等）\n缺乏公司记录与正常运作\n2. 实际控制与使用\n郭文贵实际控制HK\n使用HK地址处理个人事务\n实际使用并享受游艇\n3. 欺诈与不公正因素\n将资产转移至公司及家属名下以规避债权人\n纽约州法院已认定其行为具有欺骗性\n公司形式被用于掩盖个人资产\n➡️ 法院结论：\nHK只是郭文贵的“外壳/幌子（façade）”，应适用反向揭开公司面纱。 \n\n法律意义\n明确：\n破产受托人可依据第544条提起反向揭开公司面纱诉讼\n强调：\n法院将实质重于形式，防止利用公司结构逃避债务\n强化：\n对“壳公司+家庭成员持股+资产隔离”模式的穿透审查\n最终结果\n上诉法院维持地区法院及破产法院裁定\n结果：\nHK的资产（包括游艇及3700万美元托管资金）\n全部纳入破产财产，用于偿还债权人","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe602ebfaf82e0663057b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qe75d1407609bfba0a773","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":253,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:39:34.739Z","text":"一、总体结论\n破产受托人提供了大量且基本无争议的证据，证明HK公司只是郭文贵的“替身公司（alter ego）”。\n法院明确指出，这些证据构成了一个**“证据之山（mountain of evidence）”**\n二、具体证据类型\n1. HK缺乏真实公司实体（空壳公司）\n受托人证明HK不具备正常公司特征：\n没有收入或经营业务\n没有员工、董事或高管\n没有银行账户\n没有报税记录\n几乎没有公司记录（除游艇相关文件外）\n没有独立商业目的\n➡️ 支持认定：\n资本不足\n未遵守公司形式\n属于“外壳公司” \n2. HK唯一作用是持有郭的资产\nHK主要资产：\nLady May 游艇（价值数千万美元）\nLady May II\n无其他经营活动\n➡️ 表明HK仅用于持有个人资产，而非真实经营实体。 �\n二巡驳回郭美的法庭命令.pdf None\n3. 郭文贵对HK拥有实际控制权\n证据显示实际控制人为郭文贵：\nHK使用郭的住宅和办公地址\n同一地址用于多个郭控制的公司\n郭在破产申报中使用HK地址\nHK办公地点存在郭的律师及相关实体\n➡️ 证明支配与控制（dominion and control）。 \n4. 郭实际使用并受益于游艇\n郭是游艇的主要使用者\n购买资金由郭提供\n实际享受游艇利益\n➡️ 表明公司与个人之间没有实质分离。 \n\n5. 纽约州法院已有不利认定\n受托人引用既有判决：\n郭控制并资助游艇\n通过公司及家人隐藏资产\n郭美证词被认定：\n前后矛盾\n缺乏可信性\n法院认定行为属于：\n“壳公司游戏（shell game）”规避债权人\n➡️ 强有力证明存在欺诈意图。 \n6. 资金安排异常\nHK提供的3700万美元保证金来自：\nHimalaya International Financial Group\n该实体同样由郭控制\n➡️ 显示：\n资金来源并非独立\n存在内部循环控制结构 \n7. 家族结构与资产转移\nHK唯一成员为郭的女儿（郭美）\n➡️ 属于典型“欺诈迹象（badge of fraud）”：\n通过家庭成员持有资产以规避债权人\n\n8. 破产申报与实际情况矛盾\n郭在破产文件中申报：\n仅有少量个人物品\n但实际：\n持续使用价值数千万美元的游艇\n➡️ 体现：\n人为制造“贫困状态”\n以规避债务责任 \n9. 破产重组方案中的矛盾\n郭曾提出方案：\n由HK将游艇转给债权人\n➡️ 实质上承认：\n对HK资产具有控制或处分能力 \n三、法院总体评价\n法院认为：\n受托人提供的是一套系统性、连贯且相互印证的证据链\n上诉人仅提供：\n推测性解释\n缺乏证据支持\n➡️ 不足以形成“真实争议事实”（genuine issue of material fact）\n四、核心结论\n受托人通过以下四类证据成功证明“替身公司”关系：\n结构性证据（空壳公司）\n控制性证据（实际支配）\n利益性证据（个人使用资产）\n欺诈性迹象（家族持股 + 资产隐藏）\n➡️ 满足：\n传统揭开公司面纱标准\n以及衡平法下的反向揭开标准","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe75d1407609bfba0a773","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qc5ebf3dfdfc73b91c215","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":254,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:41:15.889Z","text":"Lady may是郭出钱买的？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc5ebf3dfdfc73b91c215","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qe8995f3e43e6b71a23a8","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":255,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:41:34.601Z","text":"3700万保证金是郭的公司付的？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe8995f3e43e6b71a23a8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q1be4050c58b8cb6813d7","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":256,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:41:40.417Z","text":"就是通过这个HK公司","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc5ebf3dfdfc73b91c215","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1be4050c58b8cb6813d7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc5ebf3dfdfc73b91c215","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q276cb39fe2c4e2b6845c","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":257,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:41:50.773Z","text":"Hk是郭的？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q276cb39fe2c4e2b6845c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qdbd54b07d8d58b585386","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":258,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:42:00.264Z","text":"郭美","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdbd54b07d8d58b585386","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q567204ba864718c2c204","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":259,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:42:29.400Z","text":"Himalaya international financial group是谁的？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q567204ba864718c2c204","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q870baeed5535e07efd18","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":260,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:42:35.501Z","text":"郭的？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q870baeed5535e07efd18","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qed6252a649eb2b3ad692","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":261,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:43:13.679Z","text":"公司太多了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qed6252a649eb2b3ad692","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qf9cf45bdc281a03da939","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":262,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:44:19.330Z","text":"购买资金是郭提供，这点，他们是怎么证明的？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf9cf45bdc281a03da939","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qa8fdff9230cc18cec4bb","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":263,"speaker":"zha***","date":"2026-04-07T16:44:45.608Z","text":"就算是空壳公司，也只能说明是郭美的空壳公司吧。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe602ebfaf82e0663057b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa8fdff9230cc18cec4bb","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe602ebfaf82e0663057b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qfe44fdeacf3aad725a0a","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":264,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T16:46:54.008Z","text":"在刑事案里Luc 跟咱们一样只是第三方，他没义务理你","edited":false,"reply_to":"q91f5d3bf3e42a5529bfe","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfe44fdeacf3aad725a0a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q91f5d3bf3e42a5529bfe","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q0f39eb8c375f4dba2afc","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":265,"speaker":"zha***","date":"2026-04-07T16:47:54.700Z","text":"是啊 说的就是这个意思","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0f39eb8c375f4dba2afc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q07019845b1212be73cce","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":266,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:49:33.160Z","text":"还有一个理由是 郭是郭美的爹","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa8fdff9230cc18cec4bb","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q07019845b1212be73cce","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa8fdff9230cc18cec4bb","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q570de603cae6fd4b5ac4","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":267,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:51:52.809Z","text":"Lady may不是郭破产之前郭美买的吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q570de603cae6fd4b5ac4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qab1d3bd00c8079adc50f","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":268,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:52:12.485Z","text":"怎么成了转移资产了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qab1d3bd00c8079adc50f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qc7258ca598168c066b92","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":269,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:52:44.763Z","text":"他破产之前不就是郭美的吗？又不是破产案后才给郭美的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc7258ca598168c066b92","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q1d1e893b714123a5959d","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":270,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:53:45.669Z","text":"郭美的律师主要是打luc的standing?","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1d1e893b714123a5959d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q24db727b1724a26d58f8","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":271,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:54:00.109Z","text":"Luc当然有standing","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q24db727b1724a26d58f8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q579a2d34bad5e46ea18e","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":272,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:56:21.053Z","text":"郭美的律师 也是[屏蔽词]","edited":true,"reply_to":"qc7258ca598168c066b92","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q579a2d34bad5e46ea18e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc7258ca598168c066b92","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q4b493f13920950e29f67","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":273,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T16:56:32.391Z","text":"估计看不懂郭的刑事案","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4b493f13920950e29f67","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q56279990d988e3f228c7","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":274,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:57:39.930Z","text":"那怎样才能不算是郭的？只要郭女儿借给郭一个游艇玩，就是郭的了？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q579a2d34bad5e46ea18e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q56279990d988e3f228c7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q579a2d34bad5e46ea18e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q2d2292e413614d67737a","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":275,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T16:58:43.306Z","text":"反正他们就是认为所有公司都是郭控制的，对吧？钱都是郭的。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2d2292e413614d67737a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q24cb6bf121f72eee0353","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":276,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T17:02:01.175Z","text":"破产庭引刑事庭的定罪和Rico","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2d2292e413614d67737a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q24cb6bf121f72eee0353","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2d2292e413614d67737a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qbc5480659c7272388696","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":277,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T17:02:38.620Z","text":"而刑事庭的Rico 又来自破产庭Luc做成的alter ego","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbc5480659c7272388696","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qaf0f9f85f1232c18cbbf","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":278,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T17:02:53.660Z","text":"我怎么觉得，按照破产庭的法律逻辑，全世界的财产都有可能是郭的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaf0f9f85f1232c18cbbf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q762719cfbdd9966970dd","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":279,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T17:03:04.109Z","text":"战友的钱也是郭的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q762719cfbdd9966970dd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qfe3d795b9333a87b7b26","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":280,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T17:03:13.758Z","text":"战友家人的钱也是郭的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfe3d795b9333a87b7b26","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qfb6cb60d16fe1d2a9b77","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":281,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T17:03:21.673Z","text":"都替郭隐藏财产","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfb6cb60d16fe1d2a9b77","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q789c0a58bb668a71ef8d","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":282,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T17:03:45.303Z","text":"郭保镖的Mahwah上诉 Luc 也是这样玩儿的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q789c0a58bb668a71ef8d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qaff8689355ecb6da915c","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":283,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T17:04:10.020Z","text":"目前状态是 pending 等郭量刑","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaff8689355ecb6da915c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q45cf1f567e29a9f4ebd8","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":284,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T17:11:54.019Z","text":"3700万保证金不就是洗脚所的3700万吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q45cf1f567e29a9f4ebd8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q46c4dc9f17839a05dc05","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":285,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T17:12:54.324Z","text":"对 这3700万就是从HEX过去的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q46c4dc9f17839a05dc05","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qdf7df8fd7eb31f4595b6","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":286,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T17:13:10.725Z","text":"余动了喜币的保证金","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdf7df8fd7eb31f4595b6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q5758850f37109bd59a86","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":287,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-07T17:13:18.660Z","text":"转给郭美的公司","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5758850f37109bd59a86","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q7bc98d08478da4a9a9e3","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":288,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T17:27:39.083Z","text":"老江开始明砸了，这是对上位死心了吧。\n这个熵增跟老江就说人话了\n\nhttps://x.com/xiatouj20547/status/2041501525701263656?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7bc98d08478da4a9a9e3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qa271b5505fb54e5f9222","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":289,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T17:31:21.597Z","text":"老江和[删节：成员身份]可以成为好朋友","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa271b5505fb54e5f9222","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q348424fec3d2881cb8bb","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":290,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:12:14.596Z","text":"如果这次第三方不上 他们搞的这几个案子的联动其实很牛逼 环环相扣","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q348424fec3d2881cb8bb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qaab6a9561a65bcffb727","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":291,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:12:25.580Z","text":"但第三方的法律层级明显更高","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaab6a9561a65bcffb727","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q1d32278a57ca12b74de0","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":292,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:14:16.525Z","text":"起手式 司法欺诈","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1d32278a57ca12b74de0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q9bfccf7f2cdb12bbef4d","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":293,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:14:25.054Z","text":"这谁受得了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9bfccf7f2cdb12bbef4d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qfdc9d0c2d42180d59401","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":294,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T18:16:21.514Z","text":"不知道是美国律师的水平都很低，还是郭案请的几个律师水平都很低","edited":false,"reply_to":"qaab6a9561a65bcffb727","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfdc9d0c2d42180d59401","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaab6a9561a65bcffb727","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qecebd6fdb3063e156a74","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":295,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:17:14.898Z","text":"我觉得是律师水平都低","edited":false,"reply_to":"qfdc9d0c2d42180d59401","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qecebd6fdb3063e156a74","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfdc9d0c2d42180d59401","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qd8053668b87114f966a9","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":296,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:17:42.095Z","text":"我们群对司法的理解应该在全美国排的上号了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd8053668b87114f966a9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q05c73bdc7c07c4c0a2a2","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":297,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:18:28.506Z","text":"他们法律体系内的人 被困在一个井里","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q05c73bdc7c07c4c0a2a2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q2e6892583ccfb505b2fc","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":298,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:18:39.106Z","text":"觉得在井里他们说了算","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2e6892583ccfb505b2fc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q6afe977f38e2d9039e0a","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":299,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:19:10.465Z","text":"你把井填了 他们就没了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6afe977f38e2d9039e0a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qee020520dcf1db01328b","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":300,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:19:53.086Z","text":"所谓中共花这么多钱 也只搞到这个水平","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qee020520dcf1db01328b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qf86d7df51fbb756d14fb","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":301,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:19:57.760Z","text":"其实是漏洞百出","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf86d7df51fbb756d14fb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qbd021898b0beedb07b79","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":302,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T18:23:57.291Z","text":"是","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf77028f64fa9c60b4f7b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbd021898b0beedb07b79","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf77028f64fa9c60b4f7b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q12839bf2a9ba1ce93331","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":303,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-04-07T18:24:37.212Z","text":"自诉叫 pro Se","edited":false,"reply_to":"q158285d83d20c95b9237","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q12839bf2a9ba1ce93331","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qaeb30a4c903cedc08ffb","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":304,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:33:25.427Z","text":"中共为什么可以操纵美国司法","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaeb30a4c903cedc08ffb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q8f676ebace91fc077951","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":305,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:33:36.608Z","text":"因为他们把美国司法当成整体一个局看","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8f676ebace91fc077951","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q9923034be5d873fc23da","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":306,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:33:46.368Z","text":"但是很low的局","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9923034be5d873fc23da","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qc223e69128573082486b","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":307,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:34:11.050Z","text":"他们的局一旦遇到禅宗局 他们就完了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc223e69128573082486b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qf4dd84b2d87c464b59fe","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":308,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T18:35:29.342Z","text":"就是靠人多，一起造假案子","edited":false,"reply_to":"qaeb30a4c903cedc08ffb","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf4dd84b2d87c464b59fe","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaeb30a4c903cedc08ffb","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q6b420009441ab2a5d42b","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":309,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:35:38.849Z","text":"对的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf4dd84b2d87c464b59fe","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6b420009441ab2a5d42b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf4dd84b2d87c464b59fe","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qcc7c530541c2e0048fb8","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":310,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:35:48.677Z","text":"然后造的案子还是有逻辑的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcc7c530541c2e0048fb8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q2f3d81a7f95762ced2e0","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":311,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T18:35:54.395Z","text":"中国别的没有，就是人多，会造假","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2f3d81a7f95762ced2e0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qef24245c954921f8cd0a","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":312,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T18:36:27.232Z","text":"逻辑其实也是没有的，螺丝哥说三岁小孩都能看出问题😆","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcc7c530541c2e0048fb8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qef24245c954921f8cd0a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcc7c530541c2e0048fb8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qc62e90eda43bd1dcc884","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":313,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:36:44.168Z","text":"就是 有他们自圆其说的一套逻辑","edited":false,"reply_to":"qef24245c954921f8cd0a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc62e90eda43bd1dcc884","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qef24245c954921f8cd0a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q96dae8bd16cc1b752e8b","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":314,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T18:37:24.237Z","text":"美国的司法系统适合美国人这种文化","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc62e90eda43bd1dcc884","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q96dae8bd16cc1b752e8b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc62e90eda43bd1dcc884","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q54daed95cc4d9eecd293","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":315,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T18:37:28.532Z","text":"就是最终解释权归司法系统，在这个圈子里，他们说了算","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q54daed95cc4d9eecd293","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qefa8398915ac9ec3fc16","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":316,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:37:53.431Z","text":"这个和死亡笔记里面[删节：成员身份]是一样的","edited":true,"reply_to":"q54daed95cc4d9eecd293","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qefa8398915ac9ec3fc16","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q54daed95cc4d9eecd293","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q947360d5f05e010d71ab","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":317,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T18:38:03.042Z","text":"中国人这种造假，美国人都理解不了，他们根本没有防备","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q947360d5f05e010d71ab","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q22f3db676fa4a13ffdd8","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":318,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:38:14.252Z","text":"但是L是用他自己的解释权让他自己无法解释","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q22f3db676fa4a13ffdd8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qb5607901784089a210ef","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":319,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T18:38:56.374Z","text":"所以我就说，美国接了郭这个案子，简直就是自找苦吃","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb5607901784089a210ef","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qe5f71923a1cb9f0361cd","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":320,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T18:39:16.323Z","text":"投资人都不在美国，你接这案子干嘛","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe5f71923a1cb9f0361cd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qc160c2276a3a18ea3cc5","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":321,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:39:19.893Z","text":"太苦了 托雷斯 检方 估计悔死了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb5607901784089a210ef","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc160c2276a3a18ea3cc5","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb5607901784089a210ef","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qa0f3cf95053255eb4061","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":322,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:39:35.529Z","text":"直接被第三方贴脸开大","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa0f3cf95053255eb4061","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qa1537eb279ae70318af7","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":323,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:39:56.760Z","text":"受害人继承美国国父的意志 维护美国司法 来维护司法秩序了🤣","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa1537eb279ae70318af7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q6ac5ae4d298a9559b014","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":324,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:40:24.933Z","text":"他们心理估计早就崩溃了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6ac5ae4d298a9559b014","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qd66f6d6462df5cbeff6f","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":325,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T18:40:53.423Z","text":"没办法 他们自找的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd66f6d6462df5cbeff6f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q8723358f8dd3cab3edf5","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":326,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-04-07T18:52:42.058Z","text":"是的。这个案件存在很多严重逻辑不通的问题。\n有一些我反复听了好几遍还是不很明白。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5e60d09623c2d3018228","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8723358f8dd3cab3edf5","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5e60d09623c2d3018228","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qb9e03a7ebea2890349bd","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":327,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:08:46.110Z","text":"郭美的律师说郭只用了lady may三个月","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb9e03a7ebea2890349bd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q515e0ead1e67f6670e11","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":328,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T19:33:10.904Z","text":"既然郭文贵上亿律师费是战友出的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q515e0ead1e67f6670e11","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q176b781f420a9a64a310","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":329,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T19:33:18.943Z","text":"建议luc去收缴","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q176b781f420a9a64a310","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q265ec8564323137fc3f8","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":330,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:37:40.500Z","text":"本案中的“证据之山”逐一对应到**alter ego / 反向揭开公司面纱（reverse veil piercing）**的法律要件。\n一、法律框架（简化版）\n法院通常分两层分析：\n（1）传统因素（Corporate Formality / Control）\n是否独立经营\n是否遵守公司形式\n是否资本充足\n是否存在混同\n（2）衡平因素（Fraud / Injustice）\n是否用于逃避债务\n是否损害债权人\n是否存在不公正或欺诈\n二、证据 → 法律要件 对照表\n1. 空壳公司证据 → 公司独立性缺失\n证据：\n无收入、无业务\n无员工/高管\n无银行账户\n未报税\n无公司记录\n唯一资产为游艇\n对应法律要件：\n❌ 未遵守公司形式（lack of corporate formalities）\n❌ 资本不足（undercapitalization）\n❌ 无独立经营（no separate existence）\n➡️ 结论：公司只是“外壳（façade）”\n2. 地址、人员、资源混同 → 控制与混同\n证据：\n与郭本人及其其他公司共用地址\n律师与关联实体共享\n多个公司集中运作\n对应法律要件：\n❌ 资产与运营混同（commingling）\n❌ 缺乏独立性（lack of separateness）\n➡️ 结论：公司与个人界限被打破\n3. 实际使用与控制 → 支配权（Domination）\n证据：\n郭决定游艇使用和移动\n郭是主要使用者\n资金来源与决策由郭掌握\n对应法律要件：\n✔ 完全控制（dominion and control）\n✔ 公司为个人工具\n➡️ 结论：公司受个人完全支配\n4. 名义持有人（女儿） → 形式与实质分离\n证据：\nHK登记在郭美名下\n但其对公司情况不了解\n对资产（如另一艘船）无认知\n对应法律要件：\n❌ 名义所有权（nominee ownership）\n✔ 实质控制归他人\n➡️ 结论：典型“代持结构”\n5. 资产转移路径 → 欺诈迹象（Badges of Fraud）\n证据：\n资产从郭 → 关联人 → 女儿 → HK\n转让对价异常（低价/无对价）\n对应法律要件：\n✔ 欺诈迹象（badges of fraud）\n✔ 资产转移以规避债务\n➡️ 结论：人为设计的资产隔离结构\n6. 纽约法院认定 → 既有司法事实支持\n证据：\n已认定郭控制游艇\n存在“shell game”\n郭美证词不可信\n对应法律要件：\n✔ 欺诈与不公正（fraud or injustice）\n✔ 事实已被司法确认\n➡️ 结论：外部法院已验证控制关系\n7. 协同诉讼与费用来源 → 非独立性\n证据：\n郭与HK共同抗辩\n使用同一律师\n律师费用由郭控制实体支付\n对应法律要件：\n❌ 法律与经济不独立\n✔ 实质为同一利益主体\n➡️ 结论：公司并非独立当事人\n8. 破产中的“人为贫困” → 不公正结果\n证据：\n破产中声称无资产\n实际控制高价值资产\n对应法律要件：\n✔ 利用公司结构逃避债务\n✔ 损害债权人利益\n➡️ 结论：若不穿透将产生严重不公\n9. 整体壳公司网络 → 系统性结构\n证据：\n多个壳公司\n统一控制\n资产分散持有\n对应法律要件：\n✔ 系统性规避债务\n✔ 非偶发行为\n➡️ 结论：构成“整体欺诈架构”\n三、整合性法律结论\n当上述证据综合时，满足两大核心标准：\n✅ （1）控制 + 无独立性\n公司没有真实存在\n完全受个人控制\n✅ （2）欺诈或不公正结果\n用于隐藏资产\n规避债权人\n扭曲破产分配\n➡️ 因此法院得出结论：\nHK = 郭的alter ego\nHK资产 = 郭的资产 → 纳入破产财产\n四、一句话法律逻辑（专业版）\n完全控制 + 形式空壳 + 欺诈目的 + 债权人受损 → 必须穿透公司结构","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q265ec8564323137fc3f8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qfb69888f92595fee24dc","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":331,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T19:42:41.154Z","text":"郭美的[屏蔽词]律师为什么不挑战债权人是假的","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfb69888f92595fee24dc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q63fd96fc85967a3fec56","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":332,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T19:42:42.701Z","text":"司法欺诈","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q63fd96fc85967a3fec56","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q0affa7a02583d7cf713a","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":333,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T19:43:24.896Z","text":"你luc在刑事庭用破产案债权人去司法欺诈","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0affa7a02583d7cf713a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q13b3c16da8dcf83da2ef","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":334,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T19:44:23.834Z","text":"https://x.com/percy43508644/status/2041577022497927577?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q13b3c16da8dcf83da2ef","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q08e846b0b6fa970cc15d","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":335,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:45:27.648Z","text":"债权人是假的，不妨碍卢克没收资产","edited":false,"reply_to":"qfb69888f92595fee24dc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q08e846b0b6fa970cc15d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfb69888f92595fee24dc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q0c743f64cc9e09238e94","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":336,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:45:54.370Z","text":"卢克没收是因为他是受托人，就算他没有一个债权人，还是可以没收","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0c743f64cc9e09238e94","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q7f4922b8fe140d3e17eb","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":337,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T19:46:04.446Z","text":"登记虚假债权人 在别的法庭司法欺诈 受托人资格成疑","edited":false,"reply_to":"q08e846b0b6fa970cc15d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7f4922b8fe140d3e17eb","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q08e846b0b6fa970cc15d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q4d76fc1785cb71bf99d4","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":338,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:46:17.739Z","text":"这个可以","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7f4922b8fe140d3e17eb","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4d76fc1785cb71bf99d4","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7f4922b8fe140d3e17eb","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q2465aaad03c641324763","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":339,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T19:46:18.428Z","text":"为啥让他没收来着？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0c743f64cc9e09238e94","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2465aaad03c641324763","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0c743f64cc9e09238e94","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q8f48ea6af7255635794a","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":340,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T19:46:18.594Z","text":"违反司法诚信","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8f48ea6af7255635794a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q322d12ca70b216b2e91e","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":341,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:46:31.530Z","text":"因为郭申请破产了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2465aaad03c641324763","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q322d12ca70b216b2e91e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2465aaad03c641324763","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q976151a47226fd66a1ff","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":342,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:46:59.074Z","text":"所以luc就可以追查郭的所有财产，看看郭有没有转移财产","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q976151a47226fd66a1ff","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q4bca4829777d0c566d55","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":343,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T19:47:10.061Z","text":"资不抵债，所有资产收走抵债？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q322d12ca70b216b2e91e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4bca4829777d0c566d55","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q322d12ca70b216b2e91e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qca5ec5576e6b7e48dfa6","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":344,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:47:41.680Z","text":"卢克查收的钱早就够了，如果你不考虑虚假索赔的话","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4bca4829777d0c566d55","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qca5ec5576e6b7e48dfa6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4bca4829777d0c566d55","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qcbbdf9c2ba158b2932de","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":345,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:48:01.788Z","text":"但是他还是不停的找钱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcbbdf9c2ba158b2932de","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qaeca998456ad1922280d","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":346,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T19:48:23.092Z","text":"Luc说到做到了，老郭在干嘛","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaeca998456ad1922280d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q5440c02b7eee1c6292e6","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":347,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:48:57.542Z","text":"他找到钱之后，要干嘛？赔给债权人？还是给美国国库？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5440c02b7eee1c6292e6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q024b7d1e02642d663b88","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":348,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:49:12.540Z","text":"债权人大部分是假的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q024b7d1e02642d663b88","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q15bf6eb712d8d0c641be","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":349,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T19:51:49.834Z","text":"现在看来弄个债权人就是为了抓人的，后面就没人提了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q024b7d1e02642d663b88","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q15bf6eb712d8d0c641be","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q024b7d1e02642d663b88","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q0c7e11a8df244bc35d6c","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":350,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:51:54.365Z","text":"郭美说她不知道hk名下有另外一艘船","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0c7e11a8df244bc35d6c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q89fb0616ccc18665191b","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":351,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:52:23.347Z","text":"Lady may II 她不知道吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q89fb0616ccc18665191b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qd9bae4279009910cb7e1","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":352,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:52:34.953Z","text":"郭直播都说过啊。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd9bae4279009910cb7e1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q5d61f5d83342636f405a","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":353,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:52:44.855Z","text":"好像就是一艘小船","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5d61f5d83342636f405a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q7afdbdd190963e34a1c9","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":354,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T19:52:59.535Z","text":"那艘快艇，值不了几个钱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7afdbdd190963e34a1c9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qe90387dc693bb5ba5b73","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":355,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:53:06.360Z","text":"那艘船不是郭美的吗，我忘了郭是怎么说的了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe90387dc693bb5ba5b73","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q1399c15ae960bd48a136","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":356,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:53:16.444Z","text":"但是郭美说她不知道","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1399c15ae960bd48a136","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q8c45e74b9170876ac7ef","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":357,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:53:34.371Z","text":"然后法官就说你的公司你都不知道有几艘船","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8c45e74b9170876ac7ef","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q4f544c1bcf2b368d72e7","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":358,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:53:57.797Z","text":"不过确实可能是忘记了，毕竟家大业大😂","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4f544c1bcf2b368d72e7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q0c9f9fbea01acd50fbfa","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":359,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T19:54:26.760Z","text":"这下郭美也没钱花了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0c9f9fbea01acd50fbfa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qc764f915356390245e73","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":360,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T19:54:52.312Z","text":"还有钱打车去看她爹吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc764f915356390245e73","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qfb6e2276e72616398321","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":361,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:55:36.423Z","text":"我觉得从郭美的表现看，盖特是她写的，也有可能","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfb6e2276e72616398321","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q0830b66e8f5da35fbfc1","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":362,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:55:52.096Z","text":"我觉得郭美说不定就是小白","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0830b66e8f5da35fbfc1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q2c3edc49932eb68ea96e","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":363,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T19:56:08.152Z","text":"当然我还是觉得不是她写的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c3edc49932eb68ea96e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q15b812873d0662d9aede","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":364,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T19:57:19.865Z","text":"直播也接电话","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q15b812873d0662d9aede","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qfd741f182ec12c51f711","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":365,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T20:03:40.098Z","text":"二巡驳回郭美，原因就是他们没找到程序问题","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfd741f182ec12c51f711","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q9a4b2286b01d4aa114ab","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":366,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T20:04:02.649Z","text":"只要你没有程序问题，二巡一般会支持下级法院的裁定","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9a4b2286b01d4aa114ab","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q8435d48647160c57ec6a","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":367,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T20:05:05.659Z","text":"二巡一共13个法官，这次郭美这三个法官，和以后郭上诉的法官说不定有重叠","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8435d48647160c57ec6a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q4fde5494654ede9442a3","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":368,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T20:05:05.813Z","text":"郭家人全被律师包围了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4fde5494654ede9442a3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qdbf9e410ab3609ee0ad9","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":369,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T20:05:53.809Z","text":"老郭来美国这么多年，一个可靠的律师都没有，也是匪夷所思","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdbf9e410ab3609ee0ad9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q84b476b2091e0191ac94","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":370,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T20:05:59.113Z","text":"哦，这次郭美的上诉三个法官之一还不是二巡的法官，是个退休的华裔法官","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q84b476b2091e0191ac94","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q33afdad614ce280791bb","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":371,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T20:07:17.483Z","text":"现在很难说是律师不可靠，还是律师水平低","edited":false,"reply_to":"qdbf9e410ab3609ee0ad9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q33afdad614ce280791bb","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdbf9e410ab3609ee0ad9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q129bc71158a74375fc25","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":372,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T20:07:39.719Z","text":"怎么偏偏他们的律师水平低","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q129bc71158a74375fc25","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q6aca79e3f78c33587478","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":373,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T20:08:06.302Z","text":"你想郭美本身也不是法律专业的，英文怎么样也不知道，再说她从来不看郭的直播，她能不能找到重点很难说","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6aca79e3f78c33587478","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q16d54a731a8efc53fdaf","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":374,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-07T20:32:36.984Z","text":"老郭这是在说啥事\n\nhttps://x.com/eage_new/status/2041545331985522780?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q16d54a731a8efc53fdaf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qb34a2cc62418e1b79343","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":375,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-04-07T21:32:26.703Z","text":"郭美是共谋犯，咱们是受害者","edited":false,"reply_to":"q05768691803cc5a57bb3","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb34a2cc62418e1b79343","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qf76007dca0eee8864680","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":376,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T22:54:09.174Z","text":"整体上，这份上诉状的目标是说服第二巡回法院：下级法院不应通过简易判决，把HK的资产直接当作郭文贵的破产财产。 上诉方的论证分成四大部分：既判力不成立、受托人无诉讼资格、反向揭开公司面纱适用错误、以及至少存在大量重大事实争议\n一、关于 Lady May 的“既判力”主张为何不成立\n上诉方首先攻击的是第一项简易判决，也就是受托人依据纽约藐视法庭命令主张：游艇 Lady May 已经被认定属于郭，所以郭美和HK不能再争。上诉方说，这个前提不成立，因为纽约程序中并没有“必然地、最终地”裁定郭是 Lady May 的唯一所有人。纽约法院为作出藐视裁定，只需要认定郭对游艇具有受益性利益并且控制游艇，而不需要认定他拥有排他性的、唯一的所有权。上诉方特别抓住纽约法院自己的表述，强调法院说的是 PAX “could ultimately levy on the Lady May”，即“将来可能可以执行”，而不是已经裁定该船只能属于郭。换言之，纽约法院处理的是藐视法庭问题，不是完整的所有权归属审判。\n上诉方进一步说，纽约法院当时也承认船的所有权问题本身存在争议，这正是后来还要再开证据听证的原因。其论证逻辑是：既然纽约法院自己都认为“ownership of the ship”仍有争议，那么那个程序的结果就不可能对“郭是唯一所有人”产生排除后诉的效力。也就是说，藐视法庭命令至多说明郭对船有一定控制或受益关系，不能推出 HK 和郭美没有任何权利。\n上诉方的第二个既判力攻击点是：郭美和HK并不是纽约案件中的当事人，也不与郭处于法律上的 privity（法律上足够紧密的代表关系）。他们说，自己在纽约藐视听证中最多只是证人，不是被告，不是正式当事人，也没有以自己的身份全面主张权利。既判力在纽约法下要求“有充分而公平的机会”争论该问题；上诉方据此主张，他们并没有在那个程序里以自己身份完整诉讼 Lady May 的产权问题，因此不能被那个结果绑定。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf76007dca0eee8864680","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qb280a23883c198a357bc","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":377,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T22:54:49.526Z","text":"二、关于受托人没有 standing 提起反向揭开公司面纱\n这是上诉方的核心法律论点之一。它分成两层：受托人不能站在债务人郭的位置主张，也不能站在债权人的位置主张。\n第一层，上诉方说，若受托人依据破产法第541条，声称自己“站在郭的鞋子里”，去提起 insider reverse veil-piercing，那么这个主张本身就有问题。因为 reverse veil-piercing 并不是债务人天然拥有的那种“属于债务人本人的财产权诉因”；更直接地说，一个债务人不能简单地说“虽然这个公司名义上不是我的，但法院请把它当成我自己，从而把公司资产给我”。上诉方认为，这类请求不属于可自动进入破产财产、由受托人继承的那类请求。它借助第二巡回的若干 standing 判例，强调受托人的权利并不是无限的。\n第二层，上诉方说，若受托人改口依据第544条，主张自己可以代表债权人提 outsider reverse veil-piercing，也仍然不行。其关键逻辑是引用第二巡回关于 Wagoner rule 的路线：破产受托人一般不能代表债权人去起诉第三方，尤其不能把本属于特定债权人的权利统一收走。上诉方把第544条理解得较窄，认为它主要是给受托人一些“强臂权”，如对抗未完善担保权益，而不是让受托人创造性地代表债权人对第三方公司提起 alter ego / reverse veil-piercing 诉讼。换言之，在上诉方看来，受托人既不能从债务人那里拿到这项诉权，也不能从债权人那里拿到这项诉权。\n三、关于 Delaware 法下反向揭开公司面纱被错误适用\n上诉方的第三大主张是：即使抽象上允许 reverse veil piercing，本案也不符合 Delaware 法的适用前提。 它特别强调一个点：在其理解下，反向揭开公司面纱通常是让“实体为其所有人的债务负责”。但本案中，郭并不是 HK 的法律所有人；HK 的名义成员是郭美，因此如果法律要求被穿透的公司与债务人之间存在“所有人—公司”的正式关系，那么本案根本走不到 reverse veil-piercing 这一步。\n这一部分的深层逻辑是，上诉方想把 Delaware 的 reverse veil-piercing 理解成一种相对严格、形式导向的规则：既然郭不是 HK 的股东或成员，法院就不应把 HK 的资产直接归到郭名下。它实际上在反对一种“实质控制就足够”的思路。也就是说，上诉方试图把问题框定为：你可以说郭影响很大，但影响不等于所有权，控制也不自动等于可穿透。 \n四、即便理论上可以起诉，也至少存在大量“重大事实争议”，不能做简易判决\n上诉方的第四大板块，是对 summary judgment 的系统性攻击。它认为，下级法院把太多有争议、应由审判解决的问题，提前在简易判决阶段就认定了。其结构对应 Delaware 的 alter ego / reverse veil-piercing 多因素分析。\n1. 传统 alter ego 因素上存在争议\n上诉方承认 HK 的公司形式比较简单，但认为这并不足以当然推出 alter ego。它会说，一家持有单一资产的 LLC 本来就可能没有员工、没有大量业务、没有复杂组织，这并不违法，也不自动意味着它是假公司。换言之，无收入、无员工、只持有单一资产，在资产持有型实体中并不罕见。上诉方据此主张，下级法院把“简单的单一资产实体”过度等同于“空壳公司”。\n它还主张，是否由郭实际控制 HK、是否遵守了足够的公司形式、相关地址和运作安排究竟说明什么，至少都存在争议，不该在简易判决阶段直接作结论。也就是说，上诉方想把所谓“铁证”重新描述为可有多种解释的间接事实。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb280a23883c198a357bc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qc3b4d6cc331036d8d3c5","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":378,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T22:54:52.634Z","text":"2. 欺诈或类似不公正因素上存在争议\n在 Delaware 法下，单有控制还不够，通常还要看到“fraud or similar injustice”。上诉方在这里的主张是：下级法院把很多不利事实自动拼接成“为了逃债而设壳”，但这其实属于争议推断。其替代叙事是，Lady May 的持有结构不是为了对抗美国债权人，而是出于对中国政府压力和安全风险的考虑。文件中上诉方专门讲到郭美曾被中共拘押、虐待；并说她哥哥购买并安排游艇结构，是为了保护家族资产不被中共针对，而非为了将来规避 PAX 或其他债权人。\n换言之，上诉方试图把“欺诈目的”改写成“安全与政治风险下的资产保护目的”。在它看来，即便法院最终不接受这套事实版本，至少这也是一个需要审判解决的事实争议，不能直接用简易判决处理。\n3. 合法期待（legitimate expectations）因素上存在争议\n上诉方还强调，HK 的正式持有人是郭美，而不是郭；同时 HK 还有一个明确主张权利的债权人 Himalaya。若法院直接 reverse pierce，把 HK 的资产都并入郭的破产财产，就会损害这些第三方的合法期待。尤其是 3700 万美元 escrow funds，据上诉方说，那是 HK 向 Himalaya 借来的钱，且郭美本人还作了担保。既然存在这样的第三方权利结构，就不能轻易说 HK 只是一个无权利主体的空壳。\n这部分 argument 的实质是：就算法院怀疑郭背后有控制，也不能忽视名义所有人和外部债权人的法律地位；至少这些人的利益会不会被不当牺牲，是需要事实审理的。\n4. 公共利益（public convenience）因素上也存在争议\n上诉方进一步说，反向揭开公司面纱是衡平性很强的救济，不应轻率适用。若法院可以在没有完整审判的情况下，仅凭“实质控制”的推断，就把一家独立注册公司的全部财产并入他人破产财产，会对公司法上的可预期性、形式独立性和第三方交易安全造成冲击。因此，公共利益因素并不是当然支持受托人，至少同样存在争议。\n五、上诉方提出的整体替代事实叙事\n除了纯法律攻击，上诉状还试图提供一个完整的替代故事，用来对抗受托人的“壳公司藏资产”叙事。这个故事大致是：\nLady May 不是郭买给自己的船，而是郭的儿子为郭美购买并命名；之所以不用本人名字持有，是因为中共当时正针对郭家及其资产；后来郭美到美国后，优先把相关实体转到自己名下，成立 HK USA，再把 Lady May 转入 HK USA，这些都是出于安全和保护资产的考虑，而不是郭操控 HK 用来骗债权人。上诉方还明确说，郭没有参与这些转移和设立行为。\n从诉讼策略上看，这个替代叙事非常重要，因为它不是单纯否认受托人的事实，而是要证明：同一批事实至少存在另一种合理解释。而一旦存在合理替代解释，上诉方就认为不应有 summary judgement\n六、把整份上诉状压缩成一句更精确的话\n如果用一句更专业的话概括，这份上诉状的详细主张是：\n纽约藐视法庭命令并未最终裁定 Lady May 的唯一所有权，郭美和 HK 也未受其既判力约束；受托人无论依据第541条还是第544条都无权提出 reverse veil-piercing；即便理论上有权，Delaware 法也不应在郭并非 HK 形式所有人的情况下适用该理论；而且关于 HK 的独立性、控制、欺诈目的、第三方期待与公共利益，至少都存在重大事实争议，因此下级法院的简易判决应被撤销。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc3b4d6cc331036d8d3c5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q298ac9d9ee6a9e622ff2","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":379,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-04-07T23:00:38.150Z","text":"第三方站出来后，luc要拿钱，就必须过来。当然它们现在准备了备用方案，一是不听证滥用裁量权没收，二是不没收一直拖，在2024年庭审时，luc还没花到3000万，到2025对郭没收时，已经花了6000多万，一年四千万，花不到几年，钱就给你花完了。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q91f5d3bf3e42a5529bfe","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q298ac9d9ee6a9e622ff2","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q91f5d3bf3e42a5529bfe","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q33782a3e7eb60dd4d112","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":380,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-04-07T23:01:04.582Z","text":"郭美借的，郭直播提到过","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5758850f37109bd59a86","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q33782a3e7eb60dd4d112","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5758850f37109bd59a86","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qd7e319d7ea13b6b171fa","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":381,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T23:03:06.887Z","text":"他说不用郭的名字是为了躲避中共，不是躲避债权人讨债","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd7e319d7ea13b6b171fa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q1aaba5c921cf8f0bf189","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":382,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-04-07T23:03:19.315Z","text":"PAX起诉郭的假欠款才2000万吧，郭说已经还了的，欠2000万为啥要追10几亿还给PAX?我一直没搞清楚怎么回事","edited":false,"reply_to":"qca5ec5576e6b7e48dfa6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1aaba5c921cf8f0bf189","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qca5ec5576e6b7e48dfa6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q3833dbaf69c04f61a0d7","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":383,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T23:03:40.324Z","text":"那不就等于承认游艇是郭的，郭美是代持？郭强也是代持？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3833dbaf69c04f61a0d7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q4e17866e91b27be2ccae","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":384,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T23:04:52.407Z","text":"郭美的律师简直是太[屏蔽词]了，怪不得上诉输了","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4e17866e91b27be2ccae","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q64dfca5a7a1cec493339","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":385,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T23:05:10.860Z","text":"这是郭美给他说的吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q64dfca5a7a1cec493339","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q4ce0ed6fda717c0923d6","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":386,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T23:06:17.596Z","text":"如果是郭美说的 搞不好郭美是特务🤣","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2e4912e01b9cb1509bc6","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4ce0ed6fda717c0923d6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qa70cac444d9eb28d774a","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":387,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T23:07:01.603Z","text":"我觉得这一系列的主旋律就是，我做一切都是为了逃避中共，请可怜可怜我吧","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4ce0ed6fda717c0923d6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa70cac444d9eb28d774a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4ce0ed6fda717c0923d6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qf34c70f84fc335bee99f","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":388,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T23:07:42.779Z","text":"然后法官说，我们不管是不是中共逼你做的，你就是不能违法","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf34c70f84fc335bee99f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qa00b975748ce0eea89a3","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":389,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T23:07:58.325Z","text":"然后郭就输了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa00b975748ce0eea89a3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q9708a2220dc90292122d","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":390,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T23:08:23.060Z","text":"这些律师是不是脑残，总是用中共做挡箭牌","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9708a2220dc90292122d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qb91f71bdc24f0519045f","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":391,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T23:08:27.296Z","text":"他们应该去找 有律师执照 但是几十年接不到一个案子的垃圾律师","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb91f71bdc24f0519045f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q0fa6f3fe9c655a6b43b4","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":392,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T23:08:39.607Z","text":"不说中共会死吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0fa6f3fe9c655a6b43b4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qcfabec46e1d4bcd04f02","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":393,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T23:10:55.645Z","text":"反正只要提到中共，必输无疑","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcfabec46e1d4bcd04f02","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q124b95c641ff30f687f6","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":394,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T23:11:14.337Z","text":"但是这些律师还最愿意提中共","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q124b95c641ff30f687f6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q3533e2b1dca09f8214d0","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":395,"speaker":"xin***","date":"2026-04-07T23:11:58.801Z","text":"马上就解脱了 大家再也不用这么累了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3533e2b1dca09f8214d0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qafb58223d87ec2aeaccb","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":396,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T23:12:23.769Z","text":"也许郭美不是亲生的？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4ce0ed6fda717c0923d6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qafb58223d87ec2aeaccb","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4ce0ed6fda717c0923d6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"qdab47ccb88fb97fda592","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":397,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-04-07T23:15:33.195Z","text":"所以本来只欠PAX 2000万，但是因为虚假债权登记弄到了几十亿，卢克才不停找钱的吧？这些登记债权的“战友”可把大家坑惨了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcbbdf9c2ba158b2932de","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdab47ccb88fb97fda592","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcbbdf9c2ba158b2932de","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q333ee3d5b26ee2bd5d37","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":398,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-07T23:16:08.493Z","text":"是吗？luc自己都说320亿是虚假债权了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qdab47ccb88fb97fda592","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q333ee3d5b26ee2bd5d37","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdab47ccb88fb97fda592","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q8865519a04bf8998acb1","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":399,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T23:16:27.234Z","text":"成也债权人 败也债权人","edited":false,"reply_to":"qdab47ccb88fb97fda592","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8865519a04bf8998acb1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdab47ccb88fb97fda592","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"},{"id":"q1d530ff496e85b8e10f0","batch_id":"batch-000099","seq":400,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-04-07T23:16:38.721Z","text":"就因为老郭鼓动登记 老郭的翻案希望还在","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1d530ff496e85b8e10f0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000099"}],"prev_batch_id":"batch-000098","next_batch_id":"batch-000100"}