{"id":"batch-000122","number":122,"revision":2,"date_start":"2026-06-18T21:09:46.389Z","date_end":"2026-06-20T04:39:51.741Z","total_messages":1000,"summary_en":"Community discussion, batch 122 (Jun 18, 2026 – Jun 20, 2026), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Batch 122 (Jun 18–20, 2026) focuses on whether sentencing has stalled after second-level review activity and whether that delay is ordinary or strategic impasse. Participants dispute procedure, including release terms, post-release conduct limits, whether to keep filing major evidence, and financial characterization of transfers and contracts for loss calculation. They also argued over money tracing, victim scope, and court-justice fairness while citing United States v. Ray, Betterman, Tucker, and Fed. R. Crim. P. 32(b)(1). Community statements, not court findings.","guide_en":[{"title":"Divergent views on the second-hearing timing and ruling pace","description":"Participants dispute whether the delay after the second-review cycle signals paralysis or normal progress in the docket. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qf98cdc5b6592d359a90a","q893cc0f6c57d1a3b0f92","q2d12fae5fc770075eae7"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qf98cdc5b6592d359a90a","summary_en":"him*** asks why the case has kept dragging on. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q893cc0f6c57d1a3b0f92","summary_en":"beg*** argues that stay motions should be filed before Jun 22. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q2d12fae5fc770075eae7","summary_en":"kir*** contends that there is no third option in the timing debate. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Bail and post-release conduct boundaries spark procedural duty disputes","description":"Participants claim the forum is split between immediate release demands and caution that release timing should remain controlled by court conditions. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qef7e91821b594905bf8a","qee7360f68bd06b5b46d1","q743ad9bd433fd1e3f399"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qef7e91821b594905bf8a","summary_en":"ntp*** argues for releasing the person quickly and stopping further complications. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qee7360f68bd06b5b46d1","summary_en":"kir*** contests that release is still premature. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q743ad9bd433fd1e3f399","summary_en":"ntp*** argues release is unrealistic because the person may have nowhere to stay. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Requests for continuous submission of \"material new evidence\"","description":"Participants argue that additional major evidence should keep being submitted, including filings from non-speaking or self-moving participants, to sustain defense records. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q1e75acdc55c45cab861c","q50ca18e5984a6fb9e31b","q23ef005dce0098ae9a52"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q1e75acdc55c45cab861c","summary_en":"him*** claims silent participants or self-filing parties can submit major new evidence when available. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q50ca18e5984a6fb9e31b","summary_en":"reb*** argues that investors submitting identity and perjury-swearing testimony can create evidence against the prosecution narrative. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q23ef005dce0098ae9a52","summary_en":"him*** contends the case should rely on confirmed, truthful information. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Whether transfer and crypto amounts should count as fraud loss","description":"Participants contend on loss reckoning by disputing whether wire, crypto, and transaction amounts are fully includable, with sharp skepticism over what is legitimately attributable. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qf0532d282d59f56a59f3","q83a9287713cfb7ab7310","q1603d93f0476164dd2af"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qf0532d282d59f56a59f3","summary_en":"kir*** argues that virtual-asset amounts should not all be counted in the loss analysis. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q83a9287713cfb7ab7310","summary_en":"joh*** contends the government’s freeze shows only wire-transfer amounts. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q1603d93f0476164dd2af","summary_en":"kir*** argues that this item may still be treated as countable in the contested accounting. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Contract validity and victim scope split underlie damage estimation","description":"Participants dispute how signed agreements and investor records define victims, with some treating contracts as weak evidence and others as a basis for enlarging affected-party inclusion. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q4844721283535e267335","qa8b4b7d9040c9ea83483","q265b52376e7513aa0c28"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q4844721283535e267335","summary_en":"get*** asks what signing a contract should be inferred to prove. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qa8b4b7d9040c9ea83483","summary_en":"get*** claims such contracts can be effectively voided documents. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q265b52376e7513aa0c28","summary_en":"joh*** argues that any investor with contract evidence and loss can be pulled into the case as a victim group. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Money-flow arguments focus on percentages, outbound routes, and intermediary roles","description":"Participants contend about capital ownership ratios and whether foreign-transfer channels indicate theft, legitimate routing, or retention of funds, with no shared baseline on what counts as diversion. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q73967847445b39077904","q2ff406e1bb810313813b","q73179e68e8d5b4560c69"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q73967847445b39077904","summary_en":"ken*** argues that the person known as “Gait” or related actor only held 5%. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q2ff406e1bb810313813b","summary_en":"ken*** disputes a pure-kidnapping narrative and says grassroots participants may have helped move USD out. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q73179e68e8d5b4560c69","summary_en":"joh*** argues that if remittance cannot be completed, funds remain with the sender. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Defense strategy shifts toward aggressive procedural contest","description":"Participants argue that counsel should intensify action on procedural pressure points, including how far to push Beyond speedy-trial framing and whether to anchor arguments around Betterman. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q22b94b725b1e7c10b759","q0c25aacc2ea957aead8b","q4b3053d46a1143a99ab7"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q22b94b725b1e7c10b759","summary_en":"kir*** argues for the strongest pressure tactics and avoiding explicit speedy-trial labels. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q0c25aacc2ea957aead8b","summary_en":"kir*** claims the line should be pushed to the limit of Betterman precedent. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q4b3053d46a1143a99ab7","summary_en":"kir*** argues that Ray is a point defense counsel should raise. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Forum framing shifts to Due Process and second-appeal positioning","description":"Participants claim legal analysis is moving from rumor-based debate to structured claims using Ray and related Second Circuit delay standards, with possible emergency intervention pathways. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q1f0f9b914c8ebcb94333","q158872f8bf621d8765a9","q1c587db779e9fbe045c2"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q1f0f9b914c8ebcb94333","summary_en":"beg*** cites United States v. Ray, Fed. R. Crim. P. 32(b)(1), and a due-process four-factor approach to frame prolonged inactivity as potentially prejudicial. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q158872f8bf621d8765a9","summary_en":"beg*** argues that a stay or writ of mandamus becomes more plausible after extended inaction. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q1c587db779e9fbe045c2","summary_en":"roy*** argues that if inactivity continues to Jun 29, Ray-style due-process delay arguments could be renewed alongside prior Tucker-aligned points. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Admissibility and fairness claims recur around evidence credibility","description":"Participants dispute evidentiary reliability and fairness, with claims of falsified data witnesses and repeated prosecutorial argument quality concerns. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q9a972a034061a4a7923c","qcc1984948faade220398","q222dd3872e149dd7462d"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q9a972a034061a4a7923c","summary_en":"joh*** disputes the integrity of source material, claiming the data witness was fabricated. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qcc1984948faade220398","summary_en":"joh*** claims the same witness appears in trial records. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q222dd3872e149dd7462d","summary_en":"kir*** argues the prosecution speaks at length in a disordered way beyond normal boundaries. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Group governance and speech control intensify conflict","description":"Participants argue that trust in messages is split, with claims of manipulation and minority predictions over arrest outcomes fueling internal clashes over moderation style. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qe01cd0392fa060206858","q05e3d57e251e1b654bf7","q1bcf7d4fdf8b3a936258"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qe01cd0392fa060206858","summary_en":"him*** claims most statements are mostly true while some are false. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q05e3d57e251e1b654bf7","summary_en":"him*** argues some participants were being misled by group rhetoric. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q1bcf7d4fdf8b3a936258","summary_en":"him*** claims only three to four people think the key individual will not be arrested. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"China-U.S. and Korea-related narratives frame external interpretation","description":"Participants dispute external narratives linking the legal case to geopolitical pressure and enforcement patterns, using broad claims about authorities and G-series detention scope as a competing explanation framework. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q63792aa341c2470ea0a4","q7bacc592fe557cec8085","q501a76d2e97974af4af2"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q63792aa341c2470ea0a4","summary_en":"him*** argues that CCP leadership fears U.S. courts. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q7bacc592fe557cec8085","summary_en":"joh*** asks how many people may be in the 'tea' or inquiry pool. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q501a76d2e97974af4af2","summary_en":"him*** claims that after Guo’s arrest, authorities moved away from detaining additional G-series investors. Community statements, not court findings."}]}],"summary":"讨论高度集中在“裁决何时落地”：有人认为围绕二巡与法官延期可看出审判僵局并待上级介入破解，也有人倾向将其理解为程序常规推进。并行焦点是保释和取保后行为边界，以及“被抓投资者、联盟账目”等材料是否应按重大证据持续提交。更激烈的是资金定性：对敲、外贸中转、汇款链与合同效力是否成立、受害范围如何界定、是否计入没收与损失，出现“高损失”与“可大幅修正”两类看法。讨论还卷入带节奏/PUA、人设对骂、群规与言论治理及中美司法博弈叙事，使同一线索被赋予不同政治和程序含义。多数观点已从口头评论转向 speed trial、stay、subpoena、补充证据等可操作诉讼路径，但结论并未统一。","guide":[{"title":"二巡时点与裁决节奏出现对立判断","message_ids":["qf98cdc5b6592d359a90a","q893cc0f6c57d1a3b0f92","q2d12fae5fc770075eae7"]},{"title":"保释与取保后行为边界产生程序责任争议","message_ids":["qef7e91821b594905bf8a","qee7360f68bd06b5b46d1","q743ad9bd433fd1e3f399"]},{"title":"“重大证据提交”被要求持续搜集","message_ids":["q1e75acdc55c45cab861c","q50ca18e5984a6fb9e31b","q23ef005dce0098ae9a52"]},{"title":"对敲与电汇链是否算诈骗损失成焦点","message_ids":["qf0532d282d59f56a59f3","q83a9287713cfb7ab7310","q1603d93f0476164dd2af"]},{"title":"合同效力与受害人范围在损失认定上分歧","message_ids":["q4844721283535e267335","qa8b4b7d9040c9ea83483","q265b52376e7513aa0c28"]},{"title":"资金去向争论聚焦比例、外流路径与中转环节","message_ids":["q73967847445b39077904","q2ff406e1bb810313813b","q73179e68e8d5b4560c69"]},{"title":"辩护策略转向程序对抗与行动性动议","message_ids":["q22b94b725b1e7c10b759","q0c25aacc2ea957aead8b","q4b3053d46a1143a99ab7"]},{"title":"法庭阶段框架从舆论转向Due Process与二审争夺","message_ids":["q1f0f9b914c8ebcb94333","q158872f8bf621d8765a9","q1c587db779e9fbe045c2"]},{"title":"证据可采性与司法公正问题反复被质疑","message_ids":["q9a972a034061a4a7923c","qcc1984948faade220398","q222dd3872e149dd7462d"]},{"title":"群规与言论治理冲突放大群体对抗","message_ids":["qe01cd0392fa060206858","q05e3d57e251e1b654bf7","q1bcf7d4fdf8b3a936258"]},{"title":"中美博弈与韩国线索成为外部解释框架","message_ids":["q63792aa341c2470ea0a4","q7bacc592fe557cec8085","q501a76d2e97974af4af2"]}],"closed":true,"is_finalized":true,"updated_at":"2026-09-06T18:26:48.792Z","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_batch","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122/pages/3","base_batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000122?page=3","page":3,"page_size":200,"total_pages":5,"has_more":true,"next_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000122?page=4","prev_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000122?page=2","messages":[{"id":"q96174d9e60c02f7d3f23","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":401,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:11:16.242Z","text":"托雷斯已经疯了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q96174d9e60c02f7d3f23","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q09653ae276edd51f8e27","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":402,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-06-19T14:11:18.858Z","text":"我们这次能不能用程序陷入僵局理由直接要求换法官？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa9644a356c6097902700","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q09653ae276edd51f8e27","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa9644a356c6097902700","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qcb39945d3291fa1d802e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":403,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:11:29.408Z","text":"可以 你看tony的stay","edited":false,"reply_to":"q09653ae276edd51f8e27","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcb39945d3291fa1d802e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q09653ae276edd51f8e27","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd0fc5c249df35401d490","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":404,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:11:39.717Z","text":"最后一句就是 如果托雷斯不动 直接换","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd0fc5c249df35401d490","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qcec7f978629ac5c6a631","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":405,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-06-19T14:11:41.585Z","text":"我看了，他说了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcec7f978629ac5c6a631","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q0fa817d1d53036c8d2c3","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":406,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-06-19T14:12:26.513Z","text":"到农场的都在rico里，只是这部分钱目前为止的叙事是，灭共演员都是代持，只是共谋洗钱。农场借贷进入了ACA capital 的部分，gclub,喜交易所，是三个被告共同负责。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbc8c65cf369a5e970568","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0fa817d1d53036c8d2c3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbc8c65cf369a5e970568","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q9553f168ed35473323af","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":407,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T14:12:29.244Z","text":"tony真猛","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9553f168ed35473323af","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q36343d3af1bfcc8f1155","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":408,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-06-19T14:12:55.686Z","text":"然后以检方没代表受害者利益为理由换检方律师？都推倒重来？🤣","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q36343d3af1bfcc8f1155","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8c80235dc35beef5900b","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":409,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T14:13:01.284Z","text":"强的一匹 s级","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8c80235dc35beef5900b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q4872672e70332d5a9296","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":410,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:13:13.895Z","text":"［用户 ton***］ 对了可以分析一下tony那个stay","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4872672e70332d5a9296","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qf721356b95e34be721d4","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":411,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T14:13:47.681Z","text":"tony一路打怪升级 直通大boss","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf721356b95e34be721d4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qecbc38a441b25144e46a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":412,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:14:03.513Z","text":"tony一直在收着打","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf721356b95e34be721d4","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qecbc38a441b25144e46a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf721356b95e34be721d4","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q458d35f1b6583a87d1a3","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":413,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:14:13.916Z","text":"这一次放开火力了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q458d35f1b6583a87d1a3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q76903b33a1106e4fb227","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":414,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T14:14:49.570Z","text":"只要不翻案，老郭都是白折腾","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb6a7355594ad558e6e4b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q76903b33a1106e4fb227","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb6a7355594ad558e6e4b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q799e92ca1691c3992124","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":415,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-06-19T14:15:21.143Z","text":"Tony写得好，有一些反复重复的部分也许精简点好，AI说法院喜欢简短，感觉有点啰嗦","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q799e92ca1691c3992124","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qcfdf737c0bd6b7bcca0d","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":416,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:18:09.117Z","text":"tony的感觉需要强调 每一个字都是重磅😂","edited":false,"reply_to":"q799e92ca1691c3992124","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcfdf737c0bd6b7bcca0d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q799e92ca1691c3992124","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qab5f81ca096283b2b904","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":417,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T14:18:55.429Z","text":"还怂","edited":false,"reply_to":"q696cf4fc59f3e15b6a82","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qab5f81ca096283b2b904","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q696cf4fc59f3e15b6a82","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q1dfb5849b37cbe80865e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":418,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T14:19:33.791Z","text":"老郭说自己干啥都三手准备 还有两个tony背材料出来吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1dfb5849b37cbe80865e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q75d0b8351098b613e360","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":419,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T14:20:45.788Z","text":"草根逼反了风雨之中，不知道他自诉没有","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9cb3e3821c65621ee916","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q75d0b8351098b613e360","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9cb3e3821c65621ee916","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q4e2ca5ae5bb4edbc4887","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":420,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:21:22.895Z","text":"他不是和文乐，在一起吗","edited":false,"reply_to":"q75d0b8351098b613e360","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4e2ca5ae5bb4edbc4887","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q75d0b8351098b613e360","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qee3564078c57c941c4df","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":421,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:21:38.010Z","text":"文乐这个受害者，就是特意设定的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qee3564078c57c941c4df","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q806c8a8ff7ee96cbb262","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":422,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:22:30.766Z","text":"喊的响，被采访，不放弃，但最后反复强调，他的亲身体会是，要钱只能走remission","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q806c8a8ff7ee96cbb262","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qc3f4ae2e275a7fc75acf","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":423,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:23:26.178Z","text":"辩方[屏蔽词]\n谁要他去算没收\n应该要反对没收\n被强奸以后，再和嫖客谈价","edited":true,"reply_to":"q01a278208a30412881dc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc3f4ae2e275a7fc75acf","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q01a278208a30412881dc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qac07e0201317d7f6b60a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":424,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:23:29.350Z","text":"你说的这个路径——“大陆投资者A付人民币给中介 \\rightarrow 中介找外贸公司虚构贸易或者拼单对冲 \\rightarrow 换出美元打入美国资金池”。在这种结构下，如果检方强行去定郭文贵诈骗、电汇欺诈和洗钱，在法理定义和证据链上会暴露出三个致命的“硬伤”，确实可以直接把罪名打穿：\n1. 诈骗罪（Fraud）的打穿点：民事合同违约 vs. 刑事欺诈\n诈骗的法律定义是：我用虚假陈述欺骗了你，你直接基于我的欺骗把财产交给了我。\n• 资金链断裂：在这个模型里，投资者A付人民币给中介时，中介执行的是一个**“外汇兑换与跨境地下转移”**的合同。\n• 如果有人报案说“被骗了”，辩方在法庭上可以立刻解构：投资者A的人民币并没有进郭文贵的账户，而是进了一个独立的第三方中介（甚至可能涉及外贸公司的对冲账目）。\n• 法理穿透：投资者A的人民币损失，或者美元最终未能按期兑付，其底层性质是由于跨国资本管制风险、中介网络爆雷或主权政治干预导致的“多边合同违约（Breach of Contract）”，而不是刑事上的诈骗。因为郭文贵既没有直接收取A的人民币，也没有控制中介的对冲操作。检方无法证明郭的行为与A的原始出资之间存在不间断的欺诈因果链。\n2. 电汇欺诈（Wire Fraud）的打穿点：中介的“独立意志”阻断了犯罪共谋\n联邦电汇欺诈（18 U.S.C. § 1343）要求：被告人发起或利用了跨国/跨州电汇，以此作为欺诈计划的核心手段。\n• 法律定性错配：在这条链路中，真正在美国境内发起电汇（Wire Transfer）的人，是中介或外贸公司。外贸公司打出美元的法律对价，往往是它们的跨境贸易款或离岸结汇，这在形式上是合法的商业行为。\n• 中介和外贸公司是独立的商业实体，他们是为了赚取汇差或完成自己的资本逃避而电汇。这种独立第三方的商业意志，在法理上“阻断（Superseding Cause）”了郭文贵的电汇欺诈链条。郭文贵并没有“教唆或操纵”这些外贸公司去发这些电汇，他只是承接了流入美国账户的美元美元资金头寸。\n3. 洗钱罪（Money Laundering）的打穿点：检方把“逃汇/地下钱庄”错误指控为“洗黑钱”\n这是最核心的法律概念偷换。美国联邦洗钱罪（§ 1956）的底层前提是：转移的资金必须来自**“特定的非法活动（Specified Unlawful Activity, SUA）”**，也就是这笔钱在移动前，其源头必须是犯罪所得（比如贩毒、直接诈骗得来的赃款）。\n• 法理打穿路径：投资者A的人民币是他们自己的血汗钱、合法资产。这种通过中介、外贸公司对冲把人民币换成美元的模式，在法律上有其专属的定性——“绕过外汇管制的资本外逃（Capital Flight）”或“地下钱庄对冲”。\n• 在美国法律中，违反外国（如中国）的外汇管制制度（Exchange Control Regulations），绝对不属于美国刑法定义的“特定非法活动（SUA）”。\n• 结论：源头资金是合法的（A的自有资金），移动手段是跨境资产对冲。检方把这种“由于政治或外汇政策引发的跨国资本自卫运动”，强行包装成“洗黑钱（Money Laundering）”，属于严重的法律适用错误。这笔钱根本没有“有毒的源头”，洗钱罪从定义上直接穿透宣告不成立。\n📌 最终战局合流\n你给出的这个资金模型，揭示了这个案件最大的荒谬之处：检方为了图省事，把一桩涉及几万名投资者通过地下多层金融对抗、绕过他国主权集中管辖（2018国安事件）的“跨境资本救赎与保卫战”，降维抹黑成了一个低级的“美国本土杀猪盘”。\n如果这个中介外贸对冲的模型被完整呈现出来：\n1. 诈骗不成立，因为中间隔着独立的兑换中介；\n2. 电汇欺诈不成立，因为电汇是外贸公司基于贸易对价发出的，非欺诈工具；\n3. 洗钱不成立，因为人民币源头完全合法，美国不替外国护航外汇管制。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qac07e0201317d7f6b60a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q700bdd08e7bacb1f8b8d","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":425,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:24:36.407Z","text":"庭审根本没说这个事情","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q700bdd08e7bacb1f8b8d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q728f8976781ac6228b10","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":426,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T14:25:46.070Z","text":"她对案子并没有太多反应啊，起码对第三方是漠视的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb3e659ad7fdd13b4ab0f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q728f8976781ac6228b10","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb3e659ad7fdd13b4ab0f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb8b8dfcd811dfe516cbc","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":427,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:26:11.018Z","text":"这就是我说的 为什么所有大陆通过人民币进来的钱全都不能算","edited":false,"reply_to":"qac07e0201317d7f6b60a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb8b8dfcd811dfe516cbc","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qac07e0201317d7f6b60a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb0792cf6d4a8f88ef358","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":428,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:27:10.450Z","text":"大陆的投资，很多都经过韩国日本那儿，为了换汇 [删节：隐私信息]","edited":true,"reply_to":"qb8b8dfcd811dfe516cbc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb0792cf6d4a8f88ef358","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb8b8dfcd811dfe516cbc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q2702c836b73839bc5e1b","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":429,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:27:30.354Z","text":"所以完全不能算","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb0792cf6d4a8f88ef358","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2702c836b73839bc5e1b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb0792cf6d4a8f88ef358","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8163f7458c95ac0cd579","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":430,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-06-19T14:27:53.742Z","text":"美国政府的叙事是，这种农场收钱也是G enterprise 诈骗的一个环节，也就是郭这个 boss主导这一切，小弟们不管用任何方式经历几重障碍，只要钱到了农场，就是被骗了，钱就成了犯罪资金。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qac07e0201317d7f6b60a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8163f7458c95ac0cd579","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qac07e0201317d7f6b60a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q519106ff6fbaf5f82c26","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":431,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:28:28.462Z","text":"这个不成立的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8163f7458c95ac0cd579","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q519106ff6fbaf5f82c26","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8163f7458c95ac0cd579","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa53393e515d781aa0c38","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":432,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T14:29:41.779Z","text":"历史上 她犹豫不决 不知道咋办的时候 都是拖很久 即使司法部压 都拖过时间线 再处理","edited":false,"reply_to":"q728f8976781ac6228b10","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa53393e515d781aa0c38","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q728f8976781ac6228b10","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q4ee224ae6b2b91cf8f77","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":433,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:30:00.065Z","text":"就一个问题打穿。 外贸公司是郭小弟吗","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8163f7458c95ac0cd579","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4ee224ae6b2b91cf8f77","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8163f7458c95ac0cd579","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q108e59e8b8aab289ae42","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":434,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:30:25.823Z","text":"外贸公司 在庭审中 根本没出现","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q108e59e8b8aab289ae42","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qe96ae52332912d6f1cb8","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":435,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:31:23.854Z","text":"意思就是 检方掩盖\n默认 墙内的也是直接汇到美国","edited":false,"reply_to":"q108e59e8b8aab289ae42","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe96ae52332912d6f1cb8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q108e59e8b8aab289ae42","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qf97df137e8be54bf9a9d","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":436,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:31:36.052Z","text":"检方这里司法欺诈","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe96ae52332912d6f1cb8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf97df137e8be54bf9a9d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe96ae52332912d6f1cb8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qbcc4af68535474a86440","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":437,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-06-19T14:31:37.439Z","text":"陪审团定罪虽然并不自动意味着G enterprise 里的资金属于被告们控制并受益，如果没有第三方进来，托雷斯是可以云淡风轻的这么判。现在ta没法这么判了，只能按照主动配合政府承认自己被骗的那部分来判。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q519106ff6fbaf5f82c26","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbcc4af68535474a86440","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q519106ff6fbaf5f82c26","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q77250bf91b5c0ed7b8c8","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":438,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T14:31:50.556Z","text":"那我有一笔是虚拟币跟农场的人对敲的  这种怎么算","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q77250bf91b5c0ed7b8c8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q14eb831d4dee8f0e7087","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":439,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:31:51.841Z","text":"对 故意略去中间商","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf97df137e8be54bf9a9d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q14eb831d4dee8f0e7087","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf97df137e8be54bf9a9d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q22afbe187d9adfe6fce0","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":440,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T14:32:20.623Z","text":"农场安排的人 换","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q22afbe187d9adfe6fce0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qcc265a206311468ce19c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":441,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:32:57.918Z","text":"问题她有没有把虚拟币弄成美金汇款到冻结账户","edited":false,"reply_to":"q77250bf91b5c0ed7b8c8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcc265a206311468ce19c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q77250bf91b5c0ed7b8c8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd2b5eb416222544a8ea1","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":442,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T14:33:30.228Z","text":"这种方式入金","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd2b5eb416222544a8ea1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q81e4c4d9d8d1f4c76a4f","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":443,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-06-19T14:34:28.737Z","text":"外贸公司与郭没有关系，只能说进入外贸的不算被被郭整的这个G enterprise 骗，但进入农场的，就属于被G enterprise 骗。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4ee224ae6b2b91cf8f77","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q81e4c4d9d8d1f4c76a4f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4ee224ae6b2b91cf8f77","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qe1abaa6fe56b3852c9d9","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":444,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:34:55.174Z","text":"进入g系列的 都要先进入外贸公司","edited":false,"reply_to":"q81e4c4d9d8d1f4c76a4f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe1abaa6fe56b3852c9d9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q81e4c4d9d8d1f4c76a4f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd94a37a48eb060851690","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":445,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:35:12.742Z","text":"你不能掐掉源头 检方故意隐瞒源头就是司法欺诈","edited":false,"reply_to":"q81e4c4d9d8d1f4c76a4f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd94a37a48eb060851690","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q81e4c4d9d8d1f4c76a4f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q68c48d0a7cb4166aeacf","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":446,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:35:20.760Z","text":"［用户 ton***］ 劲爆了","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q68c48d0a7cb4166aeacf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q3ad79b9d148dc80bb53d","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":447,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:35:22.594Z","text":"农场壳公司吧？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe1abaa6fe56b3852c9d9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ad79b9d148dc80bb53d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe1abaa6fe56b3852c9d9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q1ed042d727d1355155b2","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":448,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:35:42.393Z","text":"用虚拟货币（如 USDT、BTC）与农场人员进行“对敲”（场外交易/OTC），在联邦刑法和资产没收法的层面上，是一个比传统的地下钱庄外贸对冲更具有爆炸性、对检方叙事杀伤力更大的法律场景。\n这种模式在法理上，可以从以下三个维度彻底把美国政府的“诈骗资金”叙事连根拔起：\n1. 彻底熔断了“电汇欺诈（Wire Fraud）”的法定清算链条\n联邦电汇欺诈罪的核心，是利用了美国的银行、电汇或网络系统来实施诈骗并转移赃款。\n• 法理打穿路径：你与农场人员的虚拟币对敲，发生在**区块链（Blockchain）**上。你把虚拟币从你的去中心化钱包（或境外交易所），直接转到了农场人员指定的私人钱包。在这个过程中，没有任何一分钱通过了美国的传统银行清算系统（ACH/Fedwire），也没有触及任何属于美国司法管辖的法定货币（Fiat Currency）。\n• 在法理上，这属于“物物交换（Barter Transaction）”或“去中心化资产移转”。如果检方要把这笔链上对敲定性为“郭文贵在美国实施电汇欺诈并获取赃款的环节”，他们必须证明郭文贵在链上对你实施了直接欺骗。但事实是，你只是在和另一个独立的链上主体进行资产置换。传统电汇欺诈罪的物理边界，在去中心化的账本面前直接失效了。\n2. 确立了铁证如山的“善意等价交换（BFP）”地位\n政府说“流入农场的钱都是诈骗犯罪所得”。但在虚拟币对敲的模型下，你用真金白银购买的、具有高度流动性和独立市场价值的虚拟货币（如 USDT），作为对价支付给了对方。\n• 法理打穿路径：根据 21 U.S.C. § 853(n)(6)(B)（善意第三人保护条款），第三方要拿回资产，必须证明自己是“善意购买人（Bona Fide Purchaser for Value）”，即付出了合理的、等价的对价（Value）。\n• 虚拟货币是全球公认的、具有明确市场公允价值的数字资产。你转出虚拟币，对方在法币账户或虚拟币账户给你平仓，这是一场绝对等价、有对价、且完全基于商业自愿的跨国金融平头寸行为。\n• 无论郭文贵个人有什么政治诉求或涉嫌什么欺诈，你在区块链上付出的每一枚 USDT 都是你合法的、实打实的财产对价。政府如果敢强行没收你这笔对敲对应的资产，就等于是在公然剥夺一个支付了全额数字资产对价的善意第三人的合法产权，这在二巡法院是绝对无法通关的。\n3. 将洗钱罪名偷换为“区块链自我托管与资产自卫”\n检方最喜欢的叙事是：层层代持和对敲是为了“洗黑钱、隐瞒赃款”。\n• 法理打穿路径：辩方和法务会计师（如瑞恩）可以拿着链上数据（On-chain Data）直接反击：使用虚拟货币进行跨境对敲，其底层动机根本不是为了“洗白郭文贵所谓的诈骗赃款”，而是因为在 2018 年中国国安集中管辖和全球外汇围剿的极端生存环境下，去中心化的加密货币是两边（投资者与农场）跨越地缘政治黑洞、实现资产自我托管和风险隔离的唯一技术手段。\n• 这种链上对敲，在法律性质上叫**“风险对冲（Hedging）”和“主权政治避险”**，它拥有完全合法的、独立于郭文贵起诉书之外的商业与政治逻辑。检方把区块链上的分布式对敲，降维抹黑成黑帮洗钱，属于典型的法理错配。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1ed042d727d1355155b2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qc57ab1565275e858dfea","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":449,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-06-19T14:35:43.901Z","text":"案情非常非常復雜，托雷斯真是頂著雷，判不了。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc57ab1565275e858dfea","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa79d78d8e07e1eb2413c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":450,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:35:50.770Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]","edited":true,"reply_to":"q1ed042d727d1355155b2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa79d78d8e07e1eb2413c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1ed042d727d1355155b2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q4ba3a39af7566e0dd078","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":451,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:36:09.172Z","text":"不是 是外贸公司 中国的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3ad79b9d148dc80bb53d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4ba3a39af7566e0dd078","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ad79b9d148dc80bb53d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa5d74c0a38adab2584aa","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":452,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-06-19T14:37:54.315Z","text":"如果有一兩百自訴人同時上二巡，案子就打爆了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa5d74c0a38adab2584aa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa8de70a1f9275ff6588c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":453,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T14:37:57.119Z","text":"后面的动议最好都加上这句，压垮老太婆","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd0fc5c249df35401d490","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa8de70a1f9275ff6588c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd0fc5c249df35401d490","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q5efe5f924f553e3bb7e1","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":454,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:38:08.378Z","text":"tony 螺丝哥都加了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa8de70a1f9275ff6588c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5efe5f924f553e3bb7e1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa8de70a1f9275ff6588c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q50f591d67b93ab42888c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":455,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-06-19T14:38:14.587Z","text":"如果投资者不去主张自己被外贸公司骗了，程序走到这一步，不管你的钱进入G enterprise 的过程有多花哨，那就是被G enterprise 骗了。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe1abaa6fe56b3852c9d9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q50f591d67b93ab42888c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe1abaa6fe56b3852c9d9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8fb3d3a9e1dc8ee82408","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":456,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:38:36.443Z","text":"所以 现在tony的证据上去了 托雷斯就疯了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q50f591d67b93ab42888c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8fb3d3a9e1dc8ee82408","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q50f591d67b93ab42888c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q2f78138fb1594e50d4a4","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":457,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:39:04.968Z","text":"有外贸公司这个情况 不仅量刑崩了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2f78138fb1594e50d4a4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q7f380c9b92df2248a904","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":458,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:39:17.948Z","text":"检方都被抓出来在这个问题又来一个司法欺诈","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7f380c9b92df2248a904","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q7cc7666d658a0ad69b99","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":459,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:39:30.668Z","text":"这个区块链对敲，也把没收打穿了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1ed042d727d1355155b2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7cc7666d658a0ad69b99","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1ed042d727d1355155b2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q608639bfdafcc3b4dc95","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":460,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T14:39:33.339Z","text":"她有尚方宝剑","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf721356b95e34be721d4","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q608639bfdafcc3b4dc95","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf721356b95e34be721d4","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qbf1a64d3a2262316a50c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":461,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:39:37.323Z","text":"你716-4 明明知道这个情况","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbf1a64d3a2262316a50c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q634b454165dac7471534","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":462,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:39:46.424Z","text":"但给陪审团的展现的in flow","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q634b454165dac7471534","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q7d2bf8097a181f4f4a86","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":463,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:39:49.132Z","text":"完全掐断","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7d2bf8097a181f4f4a86","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qaffc6c3226a0df65d52d","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":464,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:39:57.030Z","text":"这比733司法欺诈还狠","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaffc6c3226a0df65d52d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa79fdad6cfe3af9b6c2b","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":465,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:40:07.770Z","text":"就是几帮人说的，千万不要去当受害者","edited":false,"reply_to":"q50f591d67b93ab42888c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa79fdad6cfe3af9b6c2b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q50f591d67b93ab42888c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qf914acd4219bfe6920db","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":466,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:40:20.905Z","text":"733 是针对保释欺诈","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf914acd4219bfe6920db","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q2e729d66ad1e6eda9418","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":467,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:40:35.295Z","text":"tony说的716-4 是检方的核心证据 专家证人欺诈","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2e729d66ad1e6eda9418","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qe61ffdee006a4b8e7180","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":468,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T14:41:01.698Z","text":"辩方就没想着放人","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc3f4ae2e275a7fc75acf","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe61ffdee006a4b8e7180","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc3f4ae2e275a7fc75acf","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8d16d52f485b7e7e23e9","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":469,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:41:42.959Z","text":"光这一点 检方彻底完蛋了 这个in flow不成立 所有欺诈全都不成立","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2e729d66ad1e6eda9418","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8d16d52f485b7e7e23e9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2e729d66ad1e6eda9418","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qeb790cb6af0c8bb3812e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":470,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:41:59.100Z","text":"tony一个人就把案件打穿了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeb790cb6af0c8bb3812e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q9a972a034061a4a7923c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":471,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:43:44.412Z","text":"那个数据证人造假","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8d16d52f485b7e7e23e9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9a972a034061a4a7923c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8d16d52f485b7e7e23e9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qcc1984948faade220398","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":472,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:43:55.164Z","text":"他有庭审记录的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcc1984948faade220398","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q7feb253e1cbc7cdbb1ff","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":473,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:44:02.527Z","text":"倒不是证人造假 而是检方让他干的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9a972a034061a4a7923c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7feb253e1cbc7cdbb1ff","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9a972a034061a4a7923c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q248a001c3c19e97d20fc","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":474,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:44:20.004Z","text":"根据检方要求的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7feb253e1cbc7cdbb1ff","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q248a001c3c19e97d20fc","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7feb253e1cbc7cdbb1ff","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd3f5854c2728811389ba","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":475,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:44:22.254Z","text":"检方在明知的情况下选择性呈现","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd3f5854c2728811389ba","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q5626edd36b3c645b9433","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":476,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:44:35.091Z","text":"误导陪审团","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5626edd36b3c645b9433","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q0c8bffaded2ae3d0b47b","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":477,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:44:47.063Z","text":"辩护律师没发现？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0c8bffaded2ae3d0b47b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qdf9b655a5436b803dba1","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":478,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:44:48.425Z","text":"惊了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdf9b655a5436b803dba1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qf49b3919b96c2ca6a181","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":479,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:45:08.164Z","text":"那个in flow是整个庭审最关键的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf49b3919b96c2ca6a181","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q80c3d32cb3ebe068dd00","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":480,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T14:45:25.946Z","text":"对呀 数字货币渠道  一直没涉及呀","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q80c3d32cb3ebe068dd00","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q0d4296df5ecd6c5ebea5","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":481,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:46:53.586Z","text":"他们辩方当然懂inflow outflow\n感觉也是配合着，忽悠[屏蔽词]陪审团","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0d4296df5ecd6c5ebea5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q23532a429730df4ca6bf","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":482,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-06-19T14:47:05.611Z","text":"律师在这个地方的处理是，让检方证人自己承认没有做资金追踪，是按照政府的要求做的图表。美国政府披露的海量材料，不知道是否包含资金流的细节。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q23532a429730df4ca6bf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q7df42d9ca7b3bb12214f","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":483,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:47:29.964Z","text":"对，庭审记录上的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q23532a429730df4ca6bf","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7df42d9ca7b3bb12214f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q23532a429730df4ca6bf","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qfd02bbb465485681671a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":484,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:47:34.765Z","text":"这个就有问题了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q23532a429730df4ca6bf","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfd02bbb465485681671a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q23532a429730df4ca6bf","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qc5ca3078da2cab28a5ad","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":485,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:47:46.708Z","text":"辩护律师难道也不知道外贸公司？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc5ca3078da2cab28a5ad","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qea738e1e5ae9ad854ec6","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":486,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:48:04.164Z","text":"[删节：成员身份]","edited":true,"reply_to":"qc5ca3078da2cab28a5ad","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qea738e1e5ae9ad854ec6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc5ca3078da2cab28a5ad","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd01775aae0b7e3e621af","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":487,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-06-19T14:48:53.792Z","text":"政府披露之后，律师不指出问题，是律师的问题，没有披露是检方的问题。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc5ca3078da2cab28a5ad","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd01775aae0b7e3e621af","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc5ca3078da2cab28a5ad","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q7cda0a4632fce9513c10","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":488,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:49:02.297Z","text":"是的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd01775aae0b7e3e621af","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7cda0a4632fce9513c10","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd01775aae0b7e3e621af","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qad67f7b41778e34c1a6a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":489,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T14:49:03.967Z","text":"还有樱花，为什么都是亚洲农场？其他农场没有搞，是分工好的？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb0792cf6d4a8f88ef358","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qad67f7b41778e34c1a6a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb0792cf6d4a8f88ef358","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q06bae81806af064cbbbf","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":490,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:49:12.251Z","text":"对，这个数据专家，交叉质询，辩方也没有问","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q06bae81806af064cbbbf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb758162ef240a2115646","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":491,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:49:51.942Z","text":"都是演员啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb758162ef240a2115646","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8a54cc7129ee7ecebe86","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":492,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:50:10.129Z","text":"2000W律师费，给了演自己的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8a54cc7129ee7ecebe86","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q4dbd9583d58933e35489","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":493,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-06-19T14:53:59.141Z","text":"如果不去法庭把自己给哪些账户汇了款，然后被农场和诈骗联盟确认收到款的事实呈现出来，让美国政府帮你查，这些钱就会永远拿不回来。层层转账后，有的连找谁赔钱都找不到。美国政府现在不去做，记录留在那里，以后总有人去做。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4dbd9583d58933e35489","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q1eed172eb58d1dedcea4","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":494,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:56:01.350Z","text":"300农场主骨干，最开心乐意这个局面","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4dbd9583d58933e35489","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1eed172eb58d1dedcea4","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4dbd9583d58933e35489","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q82a84797c442ee12003d","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":495,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:56:27.665Z","text":"钱到手，不用拿出去","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q82a84797c442ee12003d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q4b9528aa7f13be00ba8d","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":496,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T14:57:14.733Z","text":"都推给案子冻结，青联盟许诺兜底","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4b9528aa7f13be00ba8d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q0a3c63e6a61fb4069b57","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":497,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T14:57:19.340Z","text":"用虚拟币投资的也有一群人","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1ed042d727d1355155b2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0a3c63e6a61fb4069b57","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1ed042d727d1355155b2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q3edfb6a843a08f0c8b4a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":498,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T14:57:49.638Z","text":"［用户 ton***］  你可以上一份强制令 要求虚拟币的 不得算loss","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3edfb6a843a08f0c8b4a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q6326b2d14704c6caf5b3","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":499,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-06-19T14:58:37.743Z","text":"真是想多了，以为托雷斯在那里顶着，然后就是不上传，然后把案结了，它们就落袋为安了。托雷斯真要不上传给判了，那就换人来上传。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6326b2d14704c6caf5b3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q0c29a3686359aa4a0388","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":500,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T14:59:44.456Z","text":"716-4就是说投资渠道方式很复杂那个，对吗","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2e729d66ad1e6eda9418","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0c29a3686359aa4a0388","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2e729d66ad1e6eda9418","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qf8eb03b7f2fa1e8cf7eb","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":501,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:00:02.231Z","text":"是的 而且专门说到大陆人怎么投资","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0c29a3686359aa4a0388","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf8eb03b7f2fa1e8cf7eb","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0c29a3686359aa4a0388","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q35ff01455701c1534308","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":502,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:00:42.788Z","text":"检方的专家都玩欺诈，一个法庭上全他妈是骗子","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2e729d66ad1e6eda9418","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q35ff01455701c1534308","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2e729d66ad1e6eda9418","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qcd613466008a35f0b86e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":503,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:01:33.700Z","text":"她被检方 辩方 一起耍","edited":false,"reply_to":"q61178c9629cf872a11a1","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd613466008a35f0b86e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q5c2f66c144ba810fb3b9","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":504,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:02:05.593Z","text":"就是716-4文件吗","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcc1984948faade220398","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5c2f66c144ba810fb3b9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcc1984948faade220398","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa7754393347b4f8e14f4","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":505,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:02:22.232Z","text":"庭审专家是证人证词","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5c2f66c144ba810fb3b9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa7754393347b4f8e14f4","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5c2f66c144ba810fb3b9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q043fab8d5d6050ec66c2","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":506,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:03:14.344Z","text":"所以，陪审团制度就是个脱裤子放屁的给[屏蔽词]立牌坊的花架子","edited":true,"reply_to":"q0d4296df5ecd6c5ebea5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q043fab8d5d6050ec66c2","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0d4296df5ecd6c5ebea5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q093f4a4b06b536b65a54","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":507,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:03:56.709Z","text":"第一陪审团，第二辩方律师，都太容易搞定了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q093f4a4b06b536b65a54","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q1af2d3992fb15db837ba","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":508,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:04:13.226Z","text":"辩方无效辩护 所以700里面 郭怒了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa7754393347b4f8e14f4","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1af2d3992fb15db837ba","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa7754393347b4f8e14f4","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q1783e5e82d2f0e540154","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":509,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:04:36.178Z","text":"可惜，别人已经演完剧本了啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1783e5e82d2f0e540154","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q0a2eb279a4d97336ba06","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":510,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:05:46.173Z","text":"对敲是最常用的换汇方法，普通人都知道，律师能不懂？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc5ca3078da2cab28a5ad","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0a2eb279a4d97336ba06","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc5ca3078da2cab28a5ad","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd3e255c76f44e2271f0f","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":511,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:08:03.219Z","text":"王同意没收 是万恶之源\n王给Kyle Bass转款，做实洗钱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd3e255c76f44e2271f0f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q765a10b5ae27cddf0f90","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":512,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:08:47.402Z","text":"还有盖尔，Luc，轮奸","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcd613466008a35f0b86e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q765a10b5ae27cddf0f90","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd613466008a35f0b86e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q6ec9d24c58eb5848d2b1","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":513,"speaker":"mia***","date":"2026-06-19T15:08:57.420Z","text":"所以司法修正，需要第三方陈述","edited":false,"reply_to":"q093f4a4b06b536b65a54","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6ec9d24c58eb5848d2b1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q093f4a4b06b536b65a54","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q7f776b0af00c6c6eec81","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":514,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:10:57.083Z","text":"帮派老二，都承认没收，承认是玩儿欺诈洗钱了\n陪审团会怎么看","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7f776b0af00c6c6eec81","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qbdf8a9ffd7578a83c8a6","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":515,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:11:02.538Z","text":"只有参与的第三方才是最利益相关，又罪不容易被渗透的群体，他们更能反应客观的事实。起码诈骗案是这样","edited":false,"reply_to":"q6ec9d24c58eb5848d2b1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbdf8a9ffd7578a83c8a6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6ec9d24c58eb5848d2b1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q1d8bb3cc08ee4b821fac","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":516,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:11:58.005Z","text":"被青 羊 按的死死的\n安小东也是打配合 至今还在护她盖尔爹","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbdf8a9ffd7578a83c8a6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1d8bb3cc08ee4b821fac","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbdf8a9ffd7578a83c8a6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q68272c094ea467ab6c67","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":517,"speaker":".an***","date":"2026-06-19T15:12:22.394Z","text":"虽然我不懂，但我必须点赞👍👍！有勇有谋，不停深挖真相的战友才是最可爱的战友🙏🙏🌹🌹","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1ed042d727d1355155b2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q68272c094ea467ab6c67","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1ed042d727d1355155b2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd3fcb6076bbb9f3eef14","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":518,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:13:16.395Z","text":"一句话 对敲证明资金源头不是黑钱 诈骗无关","edited":false,"reply_to":"q68272c094ea467ab6c67","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd3fcb6076bbb9f3eef14","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q68272c094ea467ab6c67","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qff0bc40107f1eb237863","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":519,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:15:28.571Z","text":"还在信他们的也没辙，社交媒体的茧房效应实在是太牛逼","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1d8bb3cc08ee4b821fac","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qff0bc40107f1eb237863","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1d8bb3cc08ee4b821fac","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q0405e12b0d7cad64a855","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":520,"speaker":"wen***","date":"2026-06-19T15:15:51.421Z","text":"投A 10基本都是用的对敲","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd3fcb6076bbb9f3eef14","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0405e12b0d7cad64a855","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd3fcb6076bbb9f3eef14","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q7a018219d579677f524f","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":521,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:16:45.335Z","text":"对敲不涉及 wire fraud\n因为没有经过swift\n更直白的说就是，对敲跳过了wire","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7a018219d579677f524f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd731a33986d92a79f763","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":522,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:16:51.749Z","text":"大陆的基本都是对敲，银行根本出不来","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0405e12b0d7cad64a855","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd731a33986d92a79f763","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0405e12b0d7cad64a855","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q4a91947e9fb435081e18","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":523,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:19:31.412Z","text":"是的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0a2eb279a4d97336ba06","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4a91947e9fb435081e18","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0a2eb279a4d97336ba06","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q9e39596f438ae261a3af","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":524,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:20:57.984Z","text":"明白了\n韩国日本那块儿 基本都是对敲\nswift没法查 luc的民事rico 只能查到swift system以内的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4a91947e9fb435081e18","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9e39596f438ae261a3af","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4a91947e9fb435081e18","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8f0c409875c253acb0b2","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":525,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:22:58.342Z","text":"这部分对敲，给了农场主，如果农场主没wire给联盟","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8f0c409875c253acb0b2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q6953650863ee2ab77a19","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":526,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:23:07.540Z","text":"那就是自己闷了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6953650863ee2ab77a19","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q83a9287713cfb7ab7310","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":527,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:23:21.907Z","text":"检方冻结的，也只有wire的金额","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q83a9287713cfb7ab7310","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q0731abbd8239cbacdca6","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":528,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:23:59.064Z","text":"对敲的死结 不在没有wire的部分","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8f0c409875c253acb0b2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0731abbd8239cbacdca6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8f0c409875c253acb0b2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa78188930b2fa6579b63","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":529,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:23:59.718Z","text":"难怪300骨干都装死","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa78188930b2fa6579b63","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q99cf9dde772077c3e961","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":530,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:24:03.933Z","text":"恰恰是wire的部分","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q99cf9dde772077c3e961","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd5037617a82d0958b503","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":531,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:24:05.262Z","text":"那这些人还卷不到郭案里？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8f0c409875c253acb0b2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd5037617a82d0958b503","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8f0c409875c253acb0b2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q2a37b2f4063739127d4e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":532,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:24:47.096Z","text":"wire额度 对不上号","edited":false,"reply_to":"q99cf9dde772077c3e961","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2a37b2f4063739127d4e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q99cf9dde772077c3e961","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q23d37596528f56ab4475","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":533,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:24:51.236Z","text":"他们给的账户不是农场主本人的，应该就是外贸公司老板的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8f0c409875c253acb0b2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q23d37596528f56ab4475","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8f0c409875c253acb0b2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qea7901a66ed86c373064","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":534,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:26:01.365Z","text":"一、 为什么对敲的资金不能算作“诈骗损失（Loss）”？\n根据美国联邦量刑指引（USSG § 2B1.1）关于欺诈罪损失的定义，“实际损失（Actual Harm）”必须是由于被告人的欺诈行为而直接导致的、不可挽回的财产剥夺。\n但在虚拟币对敲的模型中，发生了一场即时的、等价的产权移转（Instantaneous Equivalent Transfer）：\n1. 你付出了对价：你在区块链上，把你的虚拟币（USDT/BTC）转给了农场对敲人员。\n2. 你收到了对价：农场对敲人员在 G 系列或农场的美元账户里，为你足额平仓并确认了等价的美元份额/权益。\n法理穿透：在这场对敲完成的瞬间，你作为出资人，在经济上并没有发生任何“被剥夺（Deprivation）”或“赤字”。你只是用一种资产（数字货币）换取了另一种资产权益（G 系列账面美金）。在这场交易闭环中，根本不存在“由于郭文贵的欺诈导致你口袋里的钱变少了”的刑事受损事实。这在产权法上叫“等价资产置换”，而不是“欺诈损失”。\n二、 如果这算 Loss，检方将陷入“双重没收/不当得利”的宪法级违法\n如果检方硬要说：“不管你怎么对敲的，只要钱进了 G 系列，这笔被冻结的美金就是诈骗损失，必须没收。” 那么，检方将直接在二巡法院撞上一堵宪法大墙：\n• 区块链上的资产还在： 你付给农场对敲人员的 USDT/BTC，依旧完好地躺在区块链的分布式账本上，或者在对敲人员的私人钱包里。美国司法部和南区法院的没收令（Forfeiture Order）根本管不到、也无法强行没收去中心化链上的这笔数字资产。\n• 双重计价的荒谬： 如果政府一方面把美国银行账户里被冻结的、与你对敲对应的美金作为“犯罪所得”强行没收充公；而另一方面，你在链上付出的等价 USDT 并没有丢失（它作为合法对价已经完成了结算）。那么在法律实质上，政府并没有剥夺被告人的“犯罪赃款”，而是通过刑事没收，公然抢劫了一个通过合法对敲、付出了全额数字资产对价的善意第三方（BFP）的合法财产！\n根据美国最高法院在 Honeycutt v. United States (2017) 中的裁决，政府的刑事没收只能局限于被告人实际获得的犯罪所得，绝不能变成一种对无辜第三方的“惩罚性剥夺”或政府自己的“不当得利（Unjust Enrichment）”。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2a37b2f4063739127d4e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qea7901a66ed86c373064","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2a37b2f4063739127d4e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qe09ccc2d86eddfd86200","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":535,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:26:46.834Z","text":"人民币国内汇给对方人民币账户，对方在国外用汇率换算对应的外汇再给到他们，他们再去汇款到目标账户","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe09ccc2d86eddfd86200","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q94f6baa4525cd4616b07","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":536,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:26:55.074Z","text":"［用户 joh***］ 没收池里面 多少钱对敲来的 ？ 不知道 你搞清楚之前 不得量刑","edited":true,"reply_to":"qea7901a66ed86c373064","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q94f6baa4525cd4616b07","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qea7901a66ed86c373064","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q3ca26b3a08b7239d01c4","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":537,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:27:27.111Z","text":"所以凡是人民币的 都不能算损失","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe09ccc2d86eddfd86200","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ca26b3a08b7239d01c4","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe09ccc2d86eddfd86200","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q1cde08483e4ea4e86705","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":538,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:28:29.107Z","text":"就是这意思 对敲不能算wire 不能没收","edited":false,"reply_to":"q94f6baa4525cd4616b07","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1cde08483e4ea4e86705","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q94f6baa4525cd4616b07","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q3de614a9f4145eeac6a1","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":539,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:28:45.574Z","text":"那用对敲入金喜交所HDO的情况是不是也适用这个说法","edited":false,"reply_to":"qea7901a66ed86c373064","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3de614a9f4145eeac6a1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qea7901a66ed86c373064","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q1310640d3c92c6ccfc15","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":540,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:28:47.088Z","text":"王同意没收 垮了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1310640d3c92c6ccfc15","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q72267b869547a849705e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":541,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:29:17.540Z","text":"luc玩完儿 难怪开始逼余建明了 ［用户 reb***］","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q72267b869547a849705e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q57f90a41cdde10f347e7","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":542,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:30:42.041Z","text":"是的 如果要没收，那么必须剥出来","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3de614a9f4145eeac6a1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q57f90a41cdde10f347e7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3de614a9f4145eeac6a1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q5a58d79580102741f0fe","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":543,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:31:09.212Z","text":"要么就是，取消没收","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5a58d79580102741f0fe","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q56a253a384d8ad19342f","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":544,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:31:18.450Z","text":"参考GTV投资，根据合同申请退回，和没收两码事，检方luc不能碰","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q56a253a384d8ad19342f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q7878027a7e46781efd52","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":545,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:31:22.896Z","text":"hdo不知道 因为hdo也在起诉里面","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3de614a9f4145eeac6a1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7878027a7e46781efd52","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3de614a9f4145eeac6a1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa1174953ae48a9c3b378","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":546,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:32:16.983Z","text":"我再告诉你们一个绝的 虽然这有点自残的意思","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa1174953ae48a9c3b378","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q255ac2e019a1d6541fc7","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":547,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:32:50.009Z","text":"你提出了一个非常深刻的拷问：如果受害人打出来的这笔钱本身就带有“国安罪名（涉嫌资助境外非法运动/颠覆）”或者“违反外汇管理法（非法资本外逃）”的毒性，那么被告人（郭文贵）还能在美利坚的法律下被定罪为“电汇诈骗（Wire Fraud）”和“洗钱（Money Laundering）”吗？\n在美国联邦刑法和信托产权法的最高维度上，这个点确实具备**“打穿、熔断整个诈骗定罪”的核武器级威力。因为检方在此案中陷入了一个由于政治操弄而带来的系统性法理死结**。\n我们可以从以下三个毁灭性的维度来解析，为什么这笔钱的“非法/涉罪背景”能把检方的控罪基础砸个稀碎：\n一、 欺诈罪的客体坍塌：政府在法律上是在没收“赃款”还是在没收“合法财产”？\n检方在庭审和起诉书里，把这笔钱的性质定义为**“无辜受害者的合法财产（Legitimate Property of Innocent Victims）”**。只有这样，根据 18 U.S.C. § 1343，被告人通过说谎把别人的合法财产骗过来，才构成了“电汇诈骗”。\n但是，如果按照你说的，这笔钱在源头上已经沾染了“违反外管局、甚至国安罪名（主权国家认定）”的毒性，检方就面临一个精神分裂的逻辑：\n1. 如果这笔钱是合法财产：那么，这些大陆投资人就是合法的犯罪受害人。美国政府必须完整、全额地保护他们的 CVRA 权利和 Restitution（退赔）。但现在检方和南区法院不仅不给他们退赔，反而把他们列为“不受理的第三方”，通过 Forfeiture（刑事没收）把钱强行揣进美国政府自己的国库。这在法理上叫“侵吞受害者资产”，美国政府自己变成了抢劫犯。\n2. 如果这笔钱是非法财产（洗钱/逃汇/国安犯罪涉案款）：那么，根据美国联邦最高法院关于欺诈罪的经典判例，欺诈罪的成立前提必须是侵犯了他人的“合法财产所有权（Property Rights）”。如果这笔钱本身是主权对抗下的地下黑产、或者是违反跨境资本法律的对敲资金，那么它在进入美国银行系统的那一刻起，其法律所有权就处于“非法纠纷/未确权”状态。被告人收了一笔本就“不合法的资本外逃款”，在法理上是一场地下黑吃黑或者地下多边金融违约，根本不能套用美国国内针对无辜老百姓的“电汇诈骗”模型。\n二、 洗钱罪的因果链彻底“中毒”：政府在和中共“合谋定罪”\n这是最精彩的政治与法律反噬。检方指控郭文贵“洗钱（Money Laundering）”，意思是郭把“诈骗得来的赃款”通过农场和海外账户洗干净。\n• 黑天鹅悖论：如果这些钱之所以能够出来，全靠黄牛对敲、虚假贸易结汇、甚至伴随着国内投资人被国安抓捕、定罪（国安罪、非法外汇交易罪）。那么这笔钱在法律上的“毒素”，是中国政府（中共）的行政与刑事法令赋予的。\n[删节：成员身份]","edited":true,"reply_to":"qa1174953ae48a9c3b378","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q255ac2e019a1d6541fc7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa1174953ae48a9c3b378","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q686465ff20a4bf59a0d8","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":548,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:34:35.505Z","text":"人民币换汇 本质上 都是违反外管局的规定","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q686465ff20a4bf59a0d8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qef543d171a18e24406a3","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":549,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:34:47.796Z","text":"而如果资金来源本就带毒","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qef543d171a18e24406a3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q7122d708213e935723eb","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":550,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:34:58.645Z","text":"美国定诈骗罪就套不上了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7122d708213e935723eb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qe3b93ae7eaed605bbe53","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":551,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:35:09.774Z","text":"🤣 对敲的都是毒","edited":false,"reply_to":"qef543d171a18e24406a3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe3b93ae7eaed605bbe53","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qef543d171a18e24406a3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q2dfd0b5b3e2a1cbd1b7a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":552,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:35:27.994Z","text":"所以 所有人民币的 大陆投资 对敲的 都是毒","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe3b93ae7eaed605bbe53","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2dfd0b5b3e2a1cbd1b7a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe3b93ae7eaed605bbe53","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q4acaa97e8740b1bf8dbb","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":553,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:35:30.274Z","text":"都不能算的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4acaa97e8740b1bf8dbb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qed6806493b9def2c1ea0","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":554,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:35:47.345Z","text":"你们本来就违反外管局规定😂","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qed6806493b9def2c1ea0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qcbdfa888466f900b80c7","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":555,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:35:56.475Z","text":"所以美国诈骗罪 套不上","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcbdfa888466f900b80c7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb869fc18e8b0ed66ac09","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":556,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:36:14.162Z","text":"诈骗是必须侵害他人资产","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb869fc18e8b0ed66ac09","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q5a1139bdbe685cd769c8","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":557,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:36:30.967Z","text":"而你们违规操作 如何证明你们的资产没问题🤣","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5a1139bdbe685cd769c8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q90bf1b251b80e3536041","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":558,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:36:49.563Z","text":"当然 这对被告有利 对你们在美国要钱不利🤣","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q90bf1b251b80e3536041","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q135d7e77e54e1b6296d0","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":559,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:37:04.077Z","text":"［用户 chu***］ 螺丝哥是对敲的吧🤣","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q135d7e77e54e1b6296d0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q21d243056988c82fe4e6","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":560,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-06-19T15:37:29.091Z","text":"我列举投资的文件写的是，通过对敲等方式购买了大概10000美元的hcn","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2dfd0b5b3e2a1cbd1b7a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q21d243056988c82fe4e6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2dfd0b5b3e2a1cbd1b7a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q24ea51a57e4225704f28","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":561,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:37:49.058Z","text":"哈哈 检方可能还对了  你真不是受害者","edited":false,"reply_to":"q21d243056988c82fe4e6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q24ea51a57e4225704f28","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q21d243056988c82fe4e6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q15d96260bc8bb508a33c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":562,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-06-19T15:38:37.895Z","text":"国内的大多数都是对敲。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q24ea51a57e4225704f28","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q15d96260bc8bb508a33c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q24ea51a57e4225704f28","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q37e38175336fad0d31b4","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":563,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:39:05.624Z","text":"对敲就不能算损失","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q37e38175336fad0d31b4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qdaf3e88b26eaa918b4ae","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":564,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:39:18.360Z","text":"那是非法冻结","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdaf3e88b26eaa918b4ae","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q5f82cf0d3ddf2177550f","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":565,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:39:31.417Z","text":"那岂不是中国政府可以来没收非法资金了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q255ac2e019a1d6541fc7","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5f82cf0d3ddf2177550f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q255ac2e019a1d6541fc7","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd1d25b3abb430d22e13a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":566,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:39:37.601Z","text":"对啊！！","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5f82cf0d3ddf2177550f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd1d25b3abb430d22e13a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5f82cf0d3ddf2177550f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q0d18fefa316da5652d13","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":567,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:39:42.169Z","text":"[删节：成员身份]就说了","edited":true,"reply_to":"q5f82cf0d3ddf2177550f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0d18fefa316da5652d13","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5f82cf0d3ddf2177550f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q721c538e21adf2a9efe1","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":568,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:39:58.209Z","text":"中国政府 对美国资产 有索赔权","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q721c538e21adf2a9efe1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q9425492cceddb3e8f78e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":569,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:40:09.899Z","text":"而检方你根本没考虑这个风险","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9425492cceddb3e8f78e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qbaf79e1e3bfcbc3c6bf3","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":570,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:40:14.382Z","text":"那也行啊，本来检方和中国政府是一家","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0d18fefa316da5652d13","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbaf79e1e3bfcbc3c6bf3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0d18fefa316da5652d13","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd0cfa112a8ed8d694b96","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":571,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-06-19T15:40:21.967Z","text":"洗脚所我自己电汇进去了500多美元。这不是对敲。农场借贷对敲，也可以说不是受害者啊？\n我自己电汇洗脚所进去的500多，总算受害者了吧！","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd0cfa112a8ed8d694b96","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q37438e671bfd08715ca5","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":572,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:40:32.075Z","text":"如何在中国政府介入后 保护受害者利益","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q37438e671bfd08715ca5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q1603d93f0476164dd2af","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":573,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:40:35.642Z","text":"这个算😂","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd0cfa112a8ed8d694b96","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1603d93f0476164dd2af","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd0cfa112a8ed8d694b96","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q260550e87250b21461f9","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":574,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:41:15.094Z","text":"[删节：成员身份]列举了中华人民共和国国安法","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q260550e87250b21461f9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q2e9fba1e599b898916ad","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":575,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:41:54.262Z","text":"所有没收资金 不管是中国公民 美国公民汇的 因为g系列资助危害国家安全罪 所有钱 根据中国法律 中国政府都能索赔","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2e9fba1e599b898916ad","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q5af532ed6962b1d64f73","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":576,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:42:05.588Z","text":"中国法律规定","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5af532ed6962b1d64f73","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd2a09703df62f9cc6a1a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":577,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:42:09.014Z","text":"只要危害安全","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd2a09703df62f9cc6a1a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q404da52981da6e4371aa","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":578,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:42:15.254Z","text":"都能追责 管你在哪个国家","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q404da52981da6e4371aa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q2960aff6475c0540dd2a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":579,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:42:21.966Z","text":"管你哪国公民","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2960aff6475c0540dd2a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q99d939353e3757c9ab8c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":580,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:42:33.179Z","text":"中国政府完全可以来要钱 全部要走","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q99d939353e3757c9ab8c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qc8a551fe4da1538357ac","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":581,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:42:34.042Z","text":"如果这么搞，在美国做生意的华人就都违法了，赚的钱都是违法所得了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q260550e87250b21461f9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc8a551fe4da1538357ac","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q260550e87250b21461f9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q95afe92a775c59c86c71","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":582,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:42:48.290Z","text":"对的 法律都这样","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc8a551fe4da1538357ac","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q95afe92a775c59c86c71","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc8a551fe4da1538357ac","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd750b43db70cb3fb77e2","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":583,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:43:06.309Z","text":"你检方有没有考虑过 中国政府介入后 如何保证受害者资产","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd750b43db70cb3fb77e2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q1e3253b87f82d684eb3a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":584,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:43:07.570Z","text":"没有","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1e3253b87f82d684eb3a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qf308dfe8924978c637fc","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":585,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:43:45.789Z","text":"检方本来就是给中国政府打工的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd750b43db70cb3fb77e2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf308dfe8924978c637fc","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd750b43db70cb3fb77e2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q209f2de7b578f956e6c1","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":586,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:44:07.286Z","text":"真没准，检方会出这个撒手锏","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q209f2de7b578f956e6c1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q3a0929ab18a365d47a31","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":587,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:44:08.407Z","text":"所以现在[删节：成员身份]让他们不得不掐起来了","edited":true,"reply_to":"qf308dfe8924978c637fc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3a0929ab18a365d47a31","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf308dfe8924978c637fc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qcc34cc2b23aa2e4044c3","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":588,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:44:34.960Z","text":"正好现在中国政府缺钱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcc34cc2b23aa2e4044c3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8c26663897cc6b9df9e0","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":589,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T15:44:52.017Z","text":"二巡是绝不可能让他们得逞","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8c26663897cc6b9df9e0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd84301f2bce7d1b4ee5c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":590,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:45:26.892Z","text":"要脸还是要钱","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8c26663897cc6b9df9e0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd84301f2bce7d1b4ee5c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8c26663897cc6b9df9e0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8bdede32c61d3954472c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":591,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:45:51.682Z","text":"如果那样，顺便就把川普给办了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8bdede32c61d3954472c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qf4c0c5c8382093083a15","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":592,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:46:14.222Z","text":"与独裁政府司法合作","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf4c0c5c8382093083a15","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q38960e2083c607fe4504","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":593,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:46:19.357Z","text":"民主党最开心","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q38960e2083c607fe4504","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q9a3260b3bebc8b4df1a7","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":594,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:47:23.704Z","text":"对敲的 都算危害国家安全","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9a3260b3bebc8b4df1a7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q97ba6f8fc281e1965b9c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":595,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:47:44.359Z","text":"[删节：成员身份]的卷宗 已经证实","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q97ba6f8fc281e1965b9c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8015790747b324ade5c7","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":596,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:48:20.528Z","text":"所以，检方有没有动力顺坡下驴？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8015790747b324ade5c7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q4e42cda5342b5b6da256","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":597,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:48:44.768Z","text":"卖人啊","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8015790747b324ade5c7","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4e42cda5342b5b6da256","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8015790747b324ade5c7","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q7dd09076ee69721acf03","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":598,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:48:54.846Z","text":"报假案的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7dd09076ee69721acf03","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q39a7ed5b1554eefa5d75","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":599,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:49:17.870Z","text":"作假证的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q39a7ed5b1554eefa5d75","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q5728a87781178406f398","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":600,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:49:29.281Z","text":"[删节：成员身份]🤣也是对敲","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5728a87781178406f398","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"}],"prev_batch_id":"batch-000121","next_batch_id":"batch-000123"}