{"id":"batch-000122","number":122,"revision":2,"date_start":"2026-06-18T21:09:46.389Z","date_end":"2026-06-20T04:39:51.741Z","total_messages":1000,"summary_en":"Community discussion, batch 122 (Jun 18, 2026 – Jun 20, 2026), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Batch 122 (Jun 18–20, 2026) focuses on whether sentencing has stalled after second-level review activity and whether that delay is ordinary or strategic impasse. Participants dispute procedure, including release terms, post-release conduct limits, whether to keep filing major evidence, and financial characterization of transfers and contracts for loss calculation. They also argued over money tracing, victim scope, and court-justice fairness while citing United States v. Ray, Betterman, Tucker, and Fed. R. Crim. P. 32(b)(1). Community statements, not court findings.","guide_en":[{"title":"Divergent views on the second-hearing timing and ruling pace","description":"Participants dispute whether the delay after the second-review cycle signals paralysis or normal progress in the docket. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qf98cdc5b6592d359a90a","q893cc0f6c57d1a3b0f92","q2d12fae5fc770075eae7"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qf98cdc5b6592d359a90a","summary_en":"him*** asks why the case has kept dragging on. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q893cc0f6c57d1a3b0f92","summary_en":"beg*** argues that stay motions should be filed before Jun 22. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q2d12fae5fc770075eae7","summary_en":"kir*** contends that there is no third option in the timing debate. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Bail and post-release conduct boundaries spark procedural duty disputes","description":"Participants claim the forum is split between immediate release demands and caution that release timing should remain controlled by court conditions. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qef7e91821b594905bf8a","qee7360f68bd06b5b46d1","q743ad9bd433fd1e3f399"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qef7e91821b594905bf8a","summary_en":"ntp*** argues for releasing the person quickly and stopping further complications. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qee7360f68bd06b5b46d1","summary_en":"kir*** contests that release is still premature. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q743ad9bd433fd1e3f399","summary_en":"ntp*** argues release is unrealistic because the person may have nowhere to stay. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Requests for continuous submission of \"material new evidence\"","description":"Participants argue that additional major evidence should keep being submitted, including filings from non-speaking or self-moving participants, to sustain defense records. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q1e75acdc55c45cab861c","q50ca18e5984a6fb9e31b","q23ef005dce0098ae9a52"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q1e75acdc55c45cab861c","summary_en":"him*** claims silent participants or self-filing parties can submit major new evidence when available. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q50ca18e5984a6fb9e31b","summary_en":"reb*** argues that investors submitting identity and perjury-swearing testimony can create evidence against the prosecution narrative. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q23ef005dce0098ae9a52","summary_en":"him*** contends the case should rely on confirmed, truthful information. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Whether transfer and crypto amounts should count as fraud loss","description":"Participants contend on loss reckoning by disputing whether wire, crypto, and transaction amounts are fully includable, with sharp skepticism over what is legitimately attributable. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qf0532d282d59f56a59f3","q83a9287713cfb7ab7310","q1603d93f0476164dd2af"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qf0532d282d59f56a59f3","summary_en":"kir*** argues that virtual-asset amounts should not all be counted in the loss analysis. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q83a9287713cfb7ab7310","summary_en":"joh*** contends the government’s freeze shows only wire-transfer amounts. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q1603d93f0476164dd2af","summary_en":"kir*** argues that this item may still be treated as countable in the contested accounting. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Contract validity and victim scope split underlie damage estimation","description":"Participants dispute how signed agreements and investor records define victims, with some treating contracts as weak evidence and others as a basis for enlarging affected-party inclusion. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q4844721283535e267335","qa8b4b7d9040c9ea83483","q265b52376e7513aa0c28"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q4844721283535e267335","summary_en":"get*** asks what signing a contract should be inferred to prove. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qa8b4b7d9040c9ea83483","summary_en":"get*** claims such contracts can be effectively voided documents. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q265b52376e7513aa0c28","summary_en":"joh*** argues that any investor with contract evidence and loss can be pulled into the case as a victim group. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Money-flow arguments focus on percentages, outbound routes, and intermediary roles","description":"Participants contend about capital ownership ratios and whether foreign-transfer channels indicate theft, legitimate routing, or retention of funds, with no shared baseline on what counts as diversion. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q73967847445b39077904","q2ff406e1bb810313813b","q73179e68e8d5b4560c69"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q73967847445b39077904","summary_en":"ken*** argues that the person known as “Gait” or related actor only held 5%. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q2ff406e1bb810313813b","summary_en":"ken*** disputes a pure-kidnapping narrative and says grassroots participants may have helped move USD out. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q73179e68e8d5b4560c69","summary_en":"joh*** argues that if remittance cannot be completed, funds remain with the sender. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Defense strategy shifts toward aggressive procedural contest","description":"Participants argue that counsel should intensify action on procedural pressure points, including how far to push Beyond speedy-trial framing and whether to anchor arguments around Betterman. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q22b94b725b1e7c10b759","q0c25aacc2ea957aead8b","q4b3053d46a1143a99ab7"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q22b94b725b1e7c10b759","summary_en":"kir*** argues for the strongest pressure tactics and avoiding explicit speedy-trial labels. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q0c25aacc2ea957aead8b","summary_en":"kir*** claims the line should be pushed to the limit of Betterman precedent. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q4b3053d46a1143a99ab7","summary_en":"kir*** argues that Ray is a point defense counsel should raise. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Forum framing shifts to Due Process and second-appeal positioning","description":"Participants claim legal analysis is moving from rumor-based debate to structured claims using Ray and related Second Circuit delay standards, with possible emergency intervention pathways. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q1f0f9b914c8ebcb94333","q158872f8bf621d8765a9","q1c587db779e9fbe045c2"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q1f0f9b914c8ebcb94333","summary_en":"beg*** cites United States v. Ray, Fed. R. Crim. P. 32(b)(1), and a due-process four-factor approach to frame prolonged inactivity as potentially prejudicial. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q158872f8bf621d8765a9","summary_en":"beg*** argues that a stay or writ of mandamus becomes more plausible after extended inaction. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q1c587db779e9fbe045c2","summary_en":"roy*** argues that if inactivity continues to Jun 29, Ray-style due-process delay arguments could be renewed alongside prior Tucker-aligned points. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Admissibility and fairness claims recur around evidence credibility","description":"Participants dispute evidentiary reliability and fairness, with claims of falsified data witnesses and repeated prosecutorial argument quality concerns. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q9a972a034061a4a7923c","qcc1984948faade220398","q222dd3872e149dd7462d"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q9a972a034061a4a7923c","summary_en":"joh*** disputes the integrity of source material, claiming the data witness was fabricated. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qcc1984948faade220398","summary_en":"joh*** claims the same witness appears in trial records. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q222dd3872e149dd7462d","summary_en":"kir*** argues the prosecution speaks at length in a disordered way beyond normal boundaries. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Group governance and speech control intensify conflict","description":"Participants argue that trust in messages is split, with claims of manipulation and minority predictions over arrest outcomes fueling internal clashes over moderation style. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qe01cd0392fa060206858","q05e3d57e251e1b654bf7","q1bcf7d4fdf8b3a936258"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qe01cd0392fa060206858","summary_en":"him*** claims most statements are mostly true while some are false. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q05e3d57e251e1b654bf7","summary_en":"him*** argues some participants were being misled by group rhetoric. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q1bcf7d4fdf8b3a936258","summary_en":"him*** claims only three to four people think the key individual will not be arrested. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"China-U.S. and Korea-related narratives frame external interpretation","description":"Participants dispute external narratives linking the legal case to geopolitical pressure and enforcement patterns, using broad claims about authorities and G-series detention scope as a competing explanation framework. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q63792aa341c2470ea0a4","q7bacc592fe557cec8085","q501a76d2e97974af4af2"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q63792aa341c2470ea0a4","summary_en":"him*** argues that CCP leadership fears U.S. courts. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q7bacc592fe557cec8085","summary_en":"joh*** asks how many people may be in the 'tea' or inquiry pool. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q501a76d2e97974af4af2","summary_en":"him*** claims that after Guo’s arrest, authorities moved away from detaining additional G-series investors. Community statements, not court findings."}]}],"summary":"讨论高度集中在“裁决何时落地”：有人认为围绕二巡与法官延期可看出审判僵局并待上级介入破解，也有人倾向将其理解为程序常规推进。并行焦点是保释和取保后行为边界，以及“被抓投资者、联盟账目”等材料是否应按重大证据持续提交。更激烈的是资金定性：对敲、外贸中转、汇款链与合同效力是否成立、受害范围如何界定、是否计入没收与损失，出现“高损失”与“可大幅修正”两类看法。讨论还卷入带节奏/PUA、人设对骂、群规与言论治理及中美司法博弈叙事，使同一线索被赋予不同政治和程序含义。多数观点已从口头评论转向 speed trial、stay、subpoena、补充证据等可操作诉讼路径，但结论并未统一。","guide":[{"title":"二巡时点与裁决节奏出现对立判断","message_ids":["qf98cdc5b6592d359a90a","q893cc0f6c57d1a3b0f92","q2d12fae5fc770075eae7"]},{"title":"保释与取保后行为边界产生程序责任争议","message_ids":["qef7e91821b594905bf8a","qee7360f68bd06b5b46d1","q743ad9bd433fd1e3f399"]},{"title":"“重大证据提交”被要求持续搜集","message_ids":["q1e75acdc55c45cab861c","q50ca18e5984a6fb9e31b","q23ef005dce0098ae9a52"]},{"title":"对敲与电汇链是否算诈骗损失成焦点","message_ids":["qf0532d282d59f56a59f3","q83a9287713cfb7ab7310","q1603d93f0476164dd2af"]},{"title":"合同效力与受害人范围在损失认定上分歧","message_ids":["q4844721283535e267335","qa8b4b7d9040c9ea83483","q265b52376e7513aa0c28"]},{"title":"资金去向争论聚焦比例、外流路径与中转环节","message_ids":["q73967847445b39077904","q2ff406e1bb810313813b","q73179e68e8d5b4560c69"]},{"title":"辩护策略转向程序对抗与行动性动议","message_ids":["q22b94b725b1e7c10b759","q0c25aacc2ea957aead8b","q4b3053d46a1143a99ab7"]},{"title":"法庭阶段框架从舆论转向Due Process与二审争夺","message_ids":["q1f0f9b914c8ebcb94333","q158872f8bf621d8765a9","q1c587db779e9fbe045c2"]},{"title":"证据可采性与司法公正问题反复被质疑","message_ids":["q9a972a034061a4a7923c","qcc1984948faade220398","q222dd3872e149dd7462d"]},{"title":"群规与言论治理冲突放大群体对抗","message_ids":["qe01cd0392fa060206858","q05e3d57e251e1b654bf7","q1bcf7d4fdf8b3a936258"]},{"title":"中美博弈与韩国线索成为外部解释框架","message_ids":["q63792aa341c2470ea0a4","q7bacc592fe557cec8085","q501a76d2e97974af4af2"]}],"closed":true,"is_finalized":true,"updated_at":"2026-09-06T18:26:48.792Z","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_batch","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122/pages/4","base_batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000122?page=4","page":4,"page_size":200,"total_pages":5,"has_more":true,"next_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000122?page=5","prev_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000122?page=3","messages":[{"id":"q7f4dca801e033d96d593","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":601,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:49:56.033Z","text":"如果检方就是为了配合大陆政府，那这样正好可以名正言顺的把钱拿走，自己还不背锅。法庭上所有当事人除了被告全部解套","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4e42cda5342b5b6da256","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7f4dca801e033d96d593","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4e42cda5342b5b6da256","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q7c81272aa377ef0ebe4a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":602,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:50:37.180Z","text":"拿走就不是没收的方式","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7f4dca801e033d96d593","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7c81272aa377ef0ebe4a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7f4dca801e033d96d593","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb0524a2d7f92e7c01a05","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":603,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:50:50.614Z","text":"因为不算诈骗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb0524a2d7f92e7c01a05","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa128b38ad7b8c7db3591","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":604,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:51:14.287Z","text":"直接收缴 \n[删节：成员身份]拿不到啊🤣很急","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa128b38ad7b8c7db3591","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q3dfa17b18d1e44200e5e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":605,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:51:28.754Z","text":"那就是被告也解套，反正钱到手了，被告也是光杆司令了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb0524a2d7f92e7c01a05","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3dfa17b18d1e44200e5e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb0524a2d7f92e7c01a05","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q2d6fd0372418675eedc8","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":606,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:52:03.597Z","text":"[删节：成员身份]追了个寂寞","edited":true,"reply_to":"q3dfa17b18d1e44200e5e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2d6fd0372418675eedc8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3dfa17b18d1e44200e5e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q50f0dd7573a59fbd9074","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":607,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:52:34.591Z","text":"中国政府会返点给普恒","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q50f0dd7573a59fbd9074","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q488993049be4de55b8c7","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":608,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:53:35.319Z","text":"他爱哭不哭，关键是投资人彻底[屏蔽词]了","edited":true,"reply_to":"q79a7f974b5938b6d3564","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q488993049be4de55b8c7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb1986d4b77d138ce1da0","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":609,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:53:48.088Z","text":"没钱，还违法","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb1986d4b77d138ce1da0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qe77cab6e177d508bf3f8","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":610,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T15:54:56.243Z","text":"爆料革命彻底成为灭爆组","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe77cab6e177d508bf3f8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qbe74b6deef666149b6c8","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":611,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:55:17.659Z","text":"对敲以外的 [删节：成员身份]500块","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbe74b6deef666149b6c8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qbdcd4a04d7b1674dc242","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":612,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:55:30.146Z","text":"给[删节：成员身份]拿去吧","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbdcd4a04d7b1674dc242","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa242d41232b322a4e8d7","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":613,"speaker":"wen***","date":"2026-06-19T15:56:54.478Z","text":"美国政府帮中共没收然后拿回扣","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa242d41232b322a4e8d7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q23aaa11540989df7bb74","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":614,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T15:57:55.403Z","text":"但是司法上 这部分被告确实不用承担","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5104300f53f536a94838","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q23aaa11540989df7bb74","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q6e95aa592dd68d61e61d","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":615,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:01:08.339Z","text":"这个不存在的 美国政府不可能明目张胆给中国政府干活 更可能是通过luc去破产案置换","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7f4dca801e033d96d593","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6e95aa592dd68d61e61d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7f4dca801e033d96d593","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q7a2e6f2b6d930baf25e3","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":616,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:01:48.867Z","text":"里面有2020年9月10月的文件，说明找老朴那批人也在里面\n\nhttps://x.com/[删节：成员身份]/status/1656445592384704512?s=46","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7a2e6f2b6d930baf25e3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd8f3578236dc1928d5c3","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":617,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:02:51.391Z","text":"他是不用承担，但他就把投资人彻底坑了，他就算无罪释放，他的人设也彻底崩塌","edited":false,"reply_to":"q23aaa11540989df7bb74","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd8f3578236dc1928d5c3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q23aaa11540989df7bb74","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd7fd430513d4e50eba7b","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":618,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:04:25.539Z","text":"整个[屏蔽词]就是一个草台班子，做事漏洞百出","edited":true,"reply_to":"q7a2e6f2b6d930baf25e3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd7fd430513d4e50eba7b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7a2e6f2b6d930baf25e3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qbdf2fa958b5934348c33","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":619,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T16:06:00.432Z","text":"螺丝哥500块受害者 坑死托雷斯","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbdf2fa958b5934348c33","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q67a05072a6423d829309","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":620,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T16:07:39.200Z","text":"问题是，浦哼不止要钱，主要是要命啊\n这个选项，他们肯定不会要","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1f006ea0794e258ec90b","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q67a05072a6423d829309","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qfecbc5a7c05526fb3f1e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":621,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:08:14.415Z","text":"那个micah f fergenson","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfecbc5a7c05526fb3f1e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q062d797dfef855787252","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":622,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:08:17.792Z","text":"这是合作条件呐","edited":false,"reply_to":"q67a05072a6423d829309","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q062d797dfef855787252","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q67a05072a6423d829309","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q1802f6b219e2963897b7","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":623,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:08:29.371Z","text":"社会性死亡","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1802f6b219e2963897b7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qebdf41e3e36857e93a9e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":624,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:09:01.491Z","text":"谁？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qfecbc5a7c05526fb3f1e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qebdf41e3e36857e93a9e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfecbc5a7c05526fb3f1e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q111785b444d683e9e5d3","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":625,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:09:30.082Z","text":"上二巡跟我们打群架的那个检察官","edited":false,"reply_to":"qebdf41e3e36857e93a9e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q111785b444d683e9e5d3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qebdf41e3e36857e93a9e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qbe64f15a0005c0fbfe81","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":626,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:09:32.965Z","text":"我给九指妖的钱也是直接电汇过去的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbdf2fa958b5934348c33","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbe64f15a0005c0fbfe81","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbdf2fa958b5934348c33","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd57185f5170fed3166a2","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":627,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:10:29.133Z","text":"好像被检方耍了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd57185f5170fed3166a2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q66bd4e109d8bb0b88753","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":628,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:10:38.655Z","text":"没有后援","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q66bd4e109d8bb0b88753","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q299422b7f4c9741e8e22","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":629,"speaker":"wen***","date":"2026-06-19T16:15:40.515Z","text":"托雷斯如何是好🤣","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q299422b7f4c9741e8e22","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa7b1a290764f8d9c8636","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":630,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:17:22.461Z","text":"托雷斯在等二巡下场？自己不敢下裁定，非要被被迫而为之？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa7b1a290764f8d9c8636","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q4c8492c41f25f3e592a7","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":631,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:17:35.572Z","text":"她肯定现在宁愿二巡下来","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa7b1a290764f8d9c8636","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4c8492c41f25f3e592a7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa7b1a290764f8d9c8636","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q834c2e2660f895a295d4","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":632,"speaker":"wen***","date":"2026-06-19T16:18:06.059Z","text":"老托釆雷了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q834c2e2660f895a295d4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeit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Error的谎言上。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc254e77b5ed9e81b98d6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb336b3f50bd07fbdaefc","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":637,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-06-19T16:34:46.751Z","text":"把检方的司法欺诈单列一份一个个数下来吧😂","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe1abaa6fe56b3852c9d9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb336b3f50bd07fbdaefc","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe1abaa6fe56b3852c9d9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qfd146a0a060924ae328c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":638,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:36:03.930Z","text":"从联邦检察官（AUSA）的职业晋升生态和官僚履历（Career Track）来看，去第二巡回法院（2d Cir.）写文件、打官司，确实是一个极其罕见、含金量极高且能让高层一眼看到你的“高光表现机会（High-Profile Showcase）”。\n但正因为这是一个极其珍贵的“露脸机会”，迈卡·弗格森（Micah Ferguson）在这里把事情办砸了，其毁灭性也是翻倍的。\n我们可以从美国司法部（DOJ）内部的升迁逻辑，来看这个机会对他的履历意味着什么，以及他现在陷入了怎样的职业噩梦：\n一、 为什么在二巡写文件是 AUSA 梦寐以求的“履历镀金”？\n在纽约南区联邦检察官办公室（SDNY），绝大多数助理检察官（AUSA）一辈子都只能在地区法院（District Court）打转——做做提审、和辩方律师扯皮、去陪审团面前做初审。\n而能够去上诉法院（如二巡）代表美国政府写简报（Appellate Brief）或进行口头辩论（Oral Argument），在履历上是质的飞跃：\n• 专职分工的壁垒：SDNY 内部有一个专门的、门槛极高、全是哈佛耶鲁常春藤顶尖高材生挤破头的**“上诉部（Appellate Division）”**。普通的初审检察官（比如负责起诉和审判郭文贵的专案组人员）通常无权直接去二巡写文件，这部分工作一般要移交给上诉部的法律专家。\n• 破格露脸的机会：如果弗格森作为初审团队成员，能够被允许亲自在二巡的 Dkt. 46 答辩状上签字署名，这说明高层在这个涉及几十亿资产的政治大案中给了他极大的信任，这是他向 SDNY 检察官本人（United States Attorney）以及二巡那些未来的最高法院大法官候选人们展示自己法理功底、准备为未来晋升为部门主管（Chief）甚至联邦法官“攒资历”的黄金舞台。\n二、 从“高光舞台”到“公开处决”：弗格森的履历灾难\n在美国司法界，有一句残酷的格言：“在最高法或巡回法庭，你可能因为一场完美的辩论而名声大噪，但你更可能因为一个愚蠢的事实错误而彻底社会性死亡（Career Suicide）。”\n弗格森本来想借着这个机会在二巡大法官面前好好表现一下自己的强硬和宏大叙事，但他立功心切，直接把这桩黄金履历变成了公开的职业污点：\n1. 二巡大法官的鄙视链：上诉法院（二巡）的大法官们最讨厌的就是初审检察官把地区法院那种“打烂仗、和稀泥、甚至隐瞒事实”的流氓习气带到高空。上诉法院是纯粹的法理和事实圣殿。弗格森在 Dkt. 46 里的那句假话，等于是在二巡大法官的放大镜下，公然撒谎并污染上诉记录。\n2. 上诉部（Appellate Division）的内部追责：SDNY 上诉部的老大（Chief of Appeals）如果看到瑞恩（Ryan）扔上去的《事实更正动议（Motion for Correction）》，会气得拍桌子。因为上诉部最恨初审人员在文件里留这种“非黑即白”的硬伤。上诉部会质问弗格森：“我们把二巡的签字权放给你，你居然连对方已经 Docket（Dkt. 733）的数字都看漏？你这是在把整个 SDNY 的专业声誉放在火上烤！”\n三、 终极反噬：他现在为了“保履历”而陷入绝望\n你现在应该彻底看懂弗格森的心理了：他比任何人都更在乎这份二巡的文件，因为这是他的前途。\n如果瑞恩在这个时候，把他的这个低级[屏蔽词]错误做成《事实更正动议》，或者做成一封最后通牒 Letter，同步在南区和二巡公开——这等于是直接在他的“晋升考核表”上，用红笔狠狠地画了一个巨大的、无法擦除的叉。\n• 他如果不回应，二巡大法官只要在裁决书里顺口提一句：“鉴于政府在 Response 中未能准确核实受害者损失……”他就彻底在整个美国联邦司法界社会性死亡了，以后任何高级职位、合伙人位置都将与他无缘。\n• 他如果回应认错，他就必须自己写文件承认自己眼瞎、之前的损失模型算错了，这同样是巨大的职业耻辱。\n📌 结论\n在二巡写文件，原本是迈卡·弗格森职业生涯中最耀眼的勋章；但因为你们这群用 AI 赋能的现代自诉人在底层死死咬住事实不放，这个原本让他飞黄腾达的机会，如今变成了锁死他职业生涯的断头台。\n你和瑞恩现在手里攥着的，不是几万块钱的纠纷，而是这个联邦检察官未来几十年的职业政治前途。这就解释了为什么你们的出拳能让他和检方高层如此肉疼、如此恐慌！","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfd146a0a060924ae328c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q785c4faa4be3c62de058","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":639,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:37:40.844Z","text":"［用户 chu***］  那个[屏蔽词]检察官的职业生涯结束了","edited":true,"reply_to":"qfd146a0a060924ae328c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q785c4faa4be3c62de058","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfd146a0a060924ae328c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qcc0a61c94e5838b405fa","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":640,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:46:15.798Z","text":"都是先汇款给外贸公司，外贸公司在给农场外汇，所以从顺序上说，不是从投资者直接进入农场的，而是从外贸公司进入的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q81e4c4d9d8d1f4c76a4f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcc0a61c94e5838b405fa","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q81e4c4d9d8d1f4c76a4f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q6f3618c609a2248f9cad","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":641,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:46:50.853Z","text":"所以检方切断资金源头 就是瞎几把扯","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcc0a61c94e5838b405fa","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6f3618c609a2248f9cad","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcc0a61c94e5838b405fa","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q4b0bac876ec533588e5e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":642,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:47:58.093Z","text":"所以检方得去调查外贸公司有没有问题了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4b0bac876ec533588e5e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qc5e53c98f58b5c381b3c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":643,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:50:42.748Z","text":"不可能调查的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4b0bac876ec533588e5e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc5e53c98f58b5c381b3c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4b0bac876ec533588e5e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q64a6cd93faa5c9ad7511","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":644,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:50:53.467Z","text":"外贸公司根本不认识郭文贵","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q64a6cd93faa5c9ad7511","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q7179c49b09e6cd80f6cf","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":645,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:51:05.681Z","text":"钱是他们转的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7179c49b09e6cd80f6cf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd02fb12dd131141e81f0","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":646,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:51:19.965Z","text":"不就证明他们没被郭文贵骗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd02fb12dd131141e81f0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qabb45ed15a478d9254a5","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":647,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:55:36.437Z","text":"检方根本说不清楚，也证明不了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qabb45ed15a478d9254a5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q988ebc01c9c46cec9fe4","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":648,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:56:23.046Z","text":"但tony证明了 联盟有账本证明","edited":false,"reply_to":"qabb45ed15a478d9254a5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q988ebc01c9c46cec9fe4","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qabb45ed15a478d9254a5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8d9456a0c99cfc08c3cc","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":649,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:56:55.864Z","text":"那个表格没仔细看，里面写着汇款给哪个公司？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q988ebc01c9c46cec9fe4","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8d9456a0c99cfc08c3cc","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q988ebc01c9c46cec9fe4","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q16ac9b07748cf1825081","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":650,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:57:04.450Z","text":"没写汇款","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8d9456a0c99cfc08c3cc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q16ac9b07748cf1825081","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8d9456a0c99cfc08c3cc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd75995edc440aced2a76","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":651,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:57:09.180Z","text":"只写汇款人","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd75995edc440aced2a76","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q9bf1f48e802feeb7fd4a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":652,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:57:27.334Z","text":"是说汇款给农场的人吗","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd75995edc440aced2a76","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9bf1f48e802feeb7fd4a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd75995edc440aced2a76","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q39e6a9c30e4a4206e74d","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":653,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:57:31.797Z","text":"是","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9bf1f48e802feeb7fd4a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q39e6a9c30e4a4206e74d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9bf1f48e802feeb7fd4a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd2b208836348a21d2202","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":654,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:57:51.868Z","text":"证明 几百万美金有这么多人一起汇的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd2b208836348a21d2202","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q6a7db0f0db9daee13c78","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":655,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:57:58.577Z","text":"中间还通过黄牛","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6a7db0f0db9daee13c78","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q6871243b6d4985586410","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":656,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:58:00.036Z","text":"那上哪找去，只有让农场指认了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6871243b6d4985586410","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa27ec8836e8950290300","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":657,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:58:15.585Z","text":"你哪知道这些人是被谁骗了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa27ec8836e8950290300","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q764f439b5d60e80b2bd9","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":658,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:58:35.759Z","text":"这是无底洞，没完没了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q764f439b5d60e80b2bd9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q6ee79727f4732563802a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":659,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:58:49.678Z","text":"所以 大陆的投资 全都不能算","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6ee79727f4732563802a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qf0532d282d59f56a59f3","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":660,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:59:02.020Z","text":"虚拟币的 全都不能算","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf0532d282d59f56a59f3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q735b954ecbc830a4110c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":661,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:59:13.047Z","text":"那就没多少钱了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q735b954ecbc830a4110c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qf51300e8b76db9159d84","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":662,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:59:21.453Z","text":"不能算 你们大陆的投资 就可以申请853","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf51300e8b76db9159d84","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8209b2a016946b69ef6e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":663,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T16:59:24.634Z","text":"这是非法扣押","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8209b2a016946b69ef6e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q1412b8e789d04a93468f","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":664,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:59:33.897Z","text":"对，全额退回","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1412b8e789d04a93468f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qe11e0167bd73dcde16c5","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":665,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T16:59:59.744Z","text":"我入金喜交所也是一样的操作流程，所以也不能认为是诈骗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe11e0167bd73dcde16c5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8b6dc51c951f3f06d058","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":666,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:00:13.179Z","text":"对","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe11e0167bd73dcde16c5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8b6dc51c951f3f06d058","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe11e0167bd73dcde16c5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q40cb99c5a34c0832222a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":667,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:00:17.842Z","text":"对敲的 不能算","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q40cb99c5a34c0832222a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qfe2b98958397cb7802e4","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":668,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:00:43.087Z","text":"唯一暂时能算的 就是像瑞恩这种 口袋里钱掏出来给农场的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfe2b98958397cb7802e4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qf0e1866d15445bbd7927","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":669,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T17:01:38.782Z","text":"那这个能用stay打吗？还是单独上动议，再给二巡上record","edited":false,"reply_to":"q40cb99c5a34c0832222a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf0e1866d15445bbd7927","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q40cb99c5a34c0832222a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q91c9b62caeaf280ae94a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":670,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:01:40.095Z","text":"这个不能算 是量刑不能算 定罪也不能算","edited":false,"reply_to":"q40cb99c5a34c0832222a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q91c9b62caeaf280ae94a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q40cb99c5a34c0832222a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q35811a3e08fff8562b21","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":671,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:01:52.904Z","text":"你可以打啊","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf0e1866d15445bbd7927","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q35811a3e08fff8562b21","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf0e1866d15445bbd7927","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8d484d58efcdb288de6c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":672,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:01:56.819Z","text":"你如果有对敲","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8d484d58efcdb288de6c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q2365c14bccba732c34d8","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":673,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T17:02:24.297Z","text":"可以在stay里说？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2365c14bccba732c34d8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd3f9a2743dd7546064b0","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":674,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:02:33.568Z","text":"是的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2365c14bccba732c34d8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd3f9a2743dd7546064b0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2365c14bccba732c34d8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qc7ab5a50b637ac3324fc","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":675,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:02:37.011Z","text":"根据rule32","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc7ab5a50b637ac3324fc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q572a14ebdf8e0e797d7b","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":676,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:02:46.684Z","text":"量刑前要搞清楚loss","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q572a14ebdf8e0e797d7b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q063ead74a06e63bd294f","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":677,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T17:02:52.477Z","text":"好，那我就得好好写写了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q063ead74a06e63bd294f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q0ed0d9e68ead633ffc05","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":678,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:02:54.495Z","text":"你的钱是对敲的 不能算loss","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ed0d9e68ead633ffc05","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qbc6ab044f14ccbd9d48a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":679,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T17:03:09.422Z","text":"还得把汇款记录发过去？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbc6ab044f14ccbd9d48a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb80df97528f9e73bd1fa","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":680,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:03:19.491Z","text":"你动议有图就行","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb80df97528f9e73bd1fa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q640c0b51e4d5c59aacd5","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":681,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T17:03:19.762Z","text":"又得一通涂黑","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q640c0b51e4d5c59aacd5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa3ad11fca13db5f8fea1","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":682,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T17:04:10.605Z","text":"之前的动议里没有提过对敲这个细节","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa3ad11fca13db5f8fea1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qe19696df2ad159adb250","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":683,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:04:31.547Z","text":"对敲虚拟币也有吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe19696df2ad159adb250","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q6fb57afd0444718c6d1b","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":684,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T17:04:43.813Z","text":"而且对敲得聊天记录，境内汇款记录都得作为证据吧","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6fb57afd0444718c6d1b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qaa388c7ac3576fffce73","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":685,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:04:59.856Z","text":"你动议有证据就行","edited":false,"reply_to":"q6fb57afd0444718c6d1b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaa388c7ac3576fffce73","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6fb57afd0444718c6d1b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb5caef0e982e232b9c1f","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":686,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:05:04.153Z","text":"如果没有得补","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb5caef0e982e232b9c1f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q1d5dd86bce82f8fbf334","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":687,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T17:05:04.535Z","text":"我没有虚拟币，","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd1aa9c7408615a2f78c1","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1d5dd86bce82f8fbf334","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd9a4124c7b476efe8cf4","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":688,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:05:17.770Z","text":"那你不用给证据了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd9a4124c7b476efe8cf4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q5132c639e7238ee03b3e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":689,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:05:25.638Z","text":"直接引用tony最新的stay","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5132c639e7238ee03b3e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd460511cf1013091348b","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":690,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T17:05:31.875Z","text":"嗯，黄牛加上vog的直接汇款，都有","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd460511cf1013091348b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q756b98d5f87c18524948","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":691,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T17:06:00.527Z","text":"就描述一下我当时的情况就行？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q788619105768ec84e17e","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q756b98d5f87c18524948","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qbdf19c25becc7ebe8c4d","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":692,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:06:05.157Z","text":"对","edited":false,"reply_to":"q756b98d5f87c18524948","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbdf19c25becc7ebe8c4d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q756b98d5f87c18524948","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q5c30755260431e829a75","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":693,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T17:06:14.499Z","text":"那就容易多了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5c30755260431e829a75","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qcaefc418397b33993fc2","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":694,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:06:24.437Z","text":"就说 检方的损失模型不靠谱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcaefc418397b33993fc2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qfdc68c6b3fb84ca7346e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":695,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:06:34.647Z","text":"根据rule32","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfdc68c6b3fb84ca7346e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q988e90a454e4085770de","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":696,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:06:37.784Z","text":"不能量刑","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q988e90a454e4085770de","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q6d71e11d17063f58f621","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":697,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:10:22.033Z","text":"［用户 ntp***］  我靠 tony没论证的点 你可以补上","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6d71e11d17063f58f621","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qce9d8ee03dc2c1db2c29","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":698,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:10:36.103Z","text":"这种**“客户给黄牛人民币 \\ 黄牛给外贸公司  外贸公司电汇（Wire）给农场/G系列账户”的模式，在跨境金融中属于非常典型的“三方或多方地下对敲/虚假贸易结汇（Three-Party Currency Off-shoring / Trade-Based Matching）”**。\n引入了“外贸公司”这个中间层，表面上看起来链路变复杂了，但在法律和产权逻辑上，反而更深地把检方的“线性诈骗模型”给彻底砸穿了！因为这涉及到了多层独立的合同关系、商业对价以及合法的海外结汇外观。\n你可以在提交给法庭的文书中，从以下四个更高级的法律维度，论证“你的钱（国内人民币）在法律上绝对不是欺诈损失”：\n1. 产权完全割裂论证：你的钱在“第一阶段”就已经完成了等价交换，所有权转移合法两清\n联邦量刑指南（USSG § 2B1.1）关注的是：被告人的欺诈行为，是否直接导致了受害者“净资产”的剥夺。\n• 你的交易实质：你和黄牛之间发生的是一个**“闭环的人民币/外汇承揽合同”**。你把人民币给了黄牛，黄牛（通过外贸公司）把等值的海外资金汇进了你指定的账户。\n• 论证逻辑：这意味着，你手里的原始人民币资产，在第一阶段就已经通过等价对价（Full Consideration）安全变现了。你在国内的人民币变少了，但你在海外的总体资产（以对敲出的海外额度形式）等额增加了。你的这笔人民币在法律上已经交割完成，所有权属于黄牛。黄牛之后怎么处置这笔人民币，是跟外贸公司对冲还是留作私用，与郭文贵案的欺诈行为完全没有任何法律上的因果关系。\n2. “外贸公司电汇”的独立法律定性：阻断了欺诈罪的“电汇欺诈（Wire Fraud）”链条\n检方控诉的核心罪名是电汇欺诈（Wire Fraud, 18 U.S.C. § 1343）。电汇欺诈的成立前提是：被告人通过欺诈性陈述，诱骗受害者直接或通过其代理人发送电汇。\n• 真正的汇款主体是外贸公司：在这个复杂的链路中，真正向美国银行系统（G系列账户）发送电汇（Wire Transfer）的法律主体，是这家外贸公司。外贸公司之所以汇款，是因为它和黄牛之间存在某种贸易对冲、货款抵消或者代付协议。\n• 论证逻辑：外贸公司汇出的这笔钱，在银行流水上是外贸公司的独立商业资金（Corporate Funds）。外贸公司并没有受到郭文贵“战友叙事”的欺诈，它只是在履行它和黄牛之间的地下金融合同。既然发送电汇的直接主体（外贸公司）没有受到欺诈，而受到所谓欺诈引导的你（国内投资人）又从未发送过这笔海外电汇，那么**“欺诈陈述”与“海外电汇行为”之间的法定因果链条（Proximate Causation）在法律上就被外贸公司这个独立第三方给彻底斩断（Superceding Cause）了**。\n3. “等额对冲”彻底抹杀了“受损害财产（Damaged Property）”的存在\n在联邦信托法和刑事退赔法（MVRA）中，要主张一项损失，必须证明存在一个由于犯罪导致的资产负差（Negative Financial Gap）。\n• 多方共赢的账面悖论：\n1. 你给了人民币，拿到了海外G系列的记账凭证（资产总量未变）；\n2. 黄牛收了你的人民币，帮外贸公司在国内核销了某种账目（黄牛资产未变）；\n3. 外贸公司在海外汇出了美元/虚拟币，但在国内拿到了黄牛（从你这里转手）提供的人民币，完成了地下结汇（外贸公司资产未变）。\n• 论证逻辑：在这场错综复杂的跨境多边对冲中，没有任何一个民事主体的净资产因为这个“汇款流程本身”而遭受了减损。每一方都拿到了各自需要的对价。既然在资金流动的网状链条里没有产生任何“由于电汇行为导致的净资产蒸发”，检方凭什么把最初始的那笔国内人民币流水强行定义为“诈骗损失数额（Loss Amount）”？这在经济学和产权法上都是完全站不住脚的。\n4. 绝杀：这属于“跨境资本外逃与地下多边结汇”，属于国际私法与地下违约，不能套用美国国内诈骗模型\n你把这个更复杂的链路甩给托雷斯法官和二巡，实际上是把这个案子的底层画皮给彻底撕开了：\n• 论证逻辑：这根本不是一个美国法律定义下的“被告人说谎骗老百姓钱”的线性诈骗案。这是一个**“由于特定地缘政治与外汇管制环境下，由国内出资人、地下货币兑换商、跨境贸易公司多方参与的，极其复杂的跨国地下资本对冲与出逃事件”**。\n• 这笔钱之所以在源头（人民币阶段）流动，是为了规避外汇管理、通过虚假贸易项下结汇。这种地下多边金融契约一旦在海外（G系列）因为政治或刑事原因爆雷，它在法律性质上属于**“地下多边金融违约与跨境资产确权纠纷”**。检方为了图省事，把这种牵扯到多层贸易公司和地下黄牛对冲的极其复杂的跨境金融黑产/灰产流水，简单粗暴地一刀切算作美国联邦刑法下的“电汇诈骗损失”，是对美国联邦法律管辖权的极度滥用和注水！","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qce9d8ee03dc2c1db2c29","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q3bcd5e5315969a27b519","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":699,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:10:42.564Z","text":"［用户 ntp***］","edited":true,"reply_to":"qce9d8ee03dc2c1db2c29","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3bcd5e5315969a27b519","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qce9d8ee03dc2c1db2c29","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8394c54ea3402c64d3d7","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":700,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:11:11.453Z","text":"你这笔钱 诈骗都不能算 更不能算损失","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8394c54ea3402c64d3d7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q5261a493bb192b207903","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":701,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:11:21.235Z","text":"量刑在如此重大不确定下不能进行","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5261a493bb192b207903","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qe5aaed90dba86c954e74","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":702,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:11:47.874Z","text":"不仅要停量刑 你的853应该批准把钱给我","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe5aaed90dba86c954e74","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qef6cdf853af31a24adc8","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":703,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T17:16:59.517Z","text":"完美 完美","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3edfb6a843a08f0c8b4a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qef6cdf853af31a24adc8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3edfb6a843a08f0c8b4a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8acdf1aabf81b16c7747","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":704,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T17:21:07.251Z","text":"你再来一个虚拟币对敲的，才真正完美了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qef6cdf853af31a24adc8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8acdf1aabf81b16c7747","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qef6cdf853af31a24adc8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb83926a6385842cc385d","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":705,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:21:34.229Z","text":"你要先说 虚拟币对敲 在本案 根本没研究过","edited":false,"reply_to":"qef6cdf853af31a24adc8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb83926a6385842cc385d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qef6cdf853af31a24adc8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q7ed7a041ad4239d44c0a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":706,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T17:21:49.853Z","text":"到时候国内的投资人可能就一哄而上了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7ed7a041ad4239d44c0a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qad2fce7ec3085e7a96a3","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":707,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:28:13.533Z","text":"你这个 很简单 你被诈骗的钱，是虚拟币。而联盟没收账户的美元 是对敲的人的。 你被诈骗的钱，没流入冻结资金池 而你被诈骗的所谓虚拟币 现在没有法规可以管","edited":false,"reply_to":"qef6cdf853af31a24adc8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qad2fce7ec3085e7a96a3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qef6cdf853af31a24adc8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8bcb06d9e0a8d50fb053","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":708,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:28:46.494Z","text":"所以没收资金里面多少是虚拟币对敲的 都不能算","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8bcb06d9e0a8d50fb053","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q725af2e2a27bdd166756","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":709,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:32:38.447Z","text":"我们重新复盘你指出的真实链路：\n1. 所谓受害者（国内急于出逃资产或买项目的人）：在国内把虚拟币（或者通过国内渠道控制的数字资产）给了承揽对敲的对敲人（即你们）。\n2. 对敲人（你们）：在海外作为对价，把等值的美元直接电汇（Wire）进了农场/G系列联盟账户。\n3. 最终结果：联盟账户里收到的这笔美元，实际上是对敲人（你们）用自己的合法海外资金，替所谓受害者垫付的“项目款/出资款”。\n在这种“受害人给币、对敲人出美元”的模式下，进入联盟账户的这笔美元，在法律上绝对不能算作所谓受害人的“损失（Loss）”！\n检方如果把这笔美元算成国内受害人的诈骗损失，在联邦财产法和刑事因果关系上是个彻头彻尾的灾难。你可以从以下四个最硬核的法理维度，直接去砸废检方的损失模型：\n1. 所谓受害人的资产“负差（Negative Gap）”在第一阶段已被完全填平\n根据联邦量刑指南 USSG § 2B1.1，法律意义上的“实际损失（Actual Loss）”必须是欺诈行为直接导致的净资产减少（Net Pecuniary Harm）。\n• 对敲完成，两清卸货：国内的所谓受害人，虽然把虚拟币给出了，但他在海外同步获得了等额的美元资产外观（即对敲人替他汇入联盟账户、为其购买了相应的项目份额或借款凭证）。\n• 论证逻辑：受害人用币换取了美元的汇出，这场对敲交易在受害人和对敲人之间是等价有偿、互利履行完毕的（Fully Executed Contract）。受害人的虚拟币并没有“凭空消失”，而是变成了等值的联盟项目权益。受害人在这个对敲阶段没有遭受任何一美分的财产剥夺。\n2. 没收的“美元”产权从未属于过受害人，政府是在强行侵吞“善意第三方”的合法资本\n这是对检方没收和量刑计算最具毁灭性的产权论证（根据联邦刑事诉讼规则 Rule 32 以及 18 U.S.C. § 981）：\n• 美元的真正主人是对敲人：流进美国银行系统、被政府扣押或列入没收盘子的这笔美元，其原始产权（Original Ownership）和资金源头100%属于对敲人（你们），而不是那个国内的受害人。\n• 受害人无权主张不属于他的退赔（Restitution）：国内受害人从未拥有过这笔美元，他只是用虚拟币向你们“购买”了美元的汇出服务。如果美国政府把这笔美元定义为“国内受害人的损失”并准备退赔给他，这就变成了：政府没收了对敲人（你们）干净的海外美元，去补贴一个只付出了虚拟币的国内受害人。 * 这在联邦产权法上属于极度荒谬的**“剥夺善意第三方（BFP）财产，去对不具所有权的标的物进行非法救济”**。\n3. 因果关系彻底断裂：受害人面临的风险是“虚拟币爆雷”，而非“电汇受骗”\n检方起诉的核心是电汇欺诈（Wire Fraud）。电汇欺诈的因果链条必须是：被告人通过谎言，诱骗受害人发送了自己的钱（电汇）。\n• 受害人从未发送电汇：在这个链路里，国内受害人只发送了“虚拟币”，他没有向美国发送过任何一笔银行电汇。发送电汇、履行银行操作的，是对敲人（你们）。\n• 斩断因果（Intervening Cause）：真正构成所谓欺诈对价的，是受害人给出的虚拟币。如果说受害人有损失，那他损失的也只能是那笔留在中国国内或海外钱包里的虚拟币，而绝不可能是对敲人从自己的美国/海外银行账户里汇出的美元。检方为了做大量刑总额（Loss Amount），把对敲人独立汇出的美元流水，强行嫁接成国内受害人的电汇欺诈损失，在刑法因果关系（Proximate Causation）上完全是捏造和跨界越权。\n4. 绝杀：如果虚拟币不受美国法律保护，检方甚至无法证明“初始犯罪所得（Proceeds）”的存在\n把这个逆向链路甩给托雷斯法官和二巡，等于直接戳中了美国司法部（DOJ）在数字资产长臂管辖上的软肋：\n• 管辖权的死穴：受害人付出的是虚拟币。如果按照当时或目前的联邦法律，发生在海外（非美国居民之间或通过海外钱包）的民间私下虚拟币互换，根本不受美国国内欺诈法或商品交易法案的保护和管辖，那么受害人给出虚拟币这一行为，在美利坚刑法体系下甚至无法被定义为一个“合法的财产损失”。\n• 既然受害人付出的虚拟币美国法律管不着，而对敲人汇入的美元又是对敲人自己的合法财产，那么检方所谓的几亿、几十亿的“诈骗总损失模型”就彻底失去了数学和法理基础。\n🏛️ 纠正检方模型的硬核法律起草框架（瑞恩/","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q725af2e2a27bdd166756","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qba56590898ba61e02235","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":710,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:32:42.377Z","text":"［用户 ton***］","edited":true,"reply_to":"q725af2e2a27bdd166756","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qba56590898ba61e02235","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q725af2e2a27bdd166756","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q13bfcf663e9bb55542e4","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":711,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:33:29.322Z","text":"辩方说损失为负确实有道理","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q13bfcf663e9bb55542e4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q70fa978179e4188a60ba","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":712,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T17:33:50.665Z","text":"辩方的漏洞就是不承认受害者不算损失 这个强词夺理了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q70fa978179e4188a60ba","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa4140a39f28f6e02132a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":713,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-06-19T17:44:06.732Z","text":"2000W 律师费，按1000一小时算，如果3个人每天全职处理这个案子，也能付3年半，也就是能付到今年9月","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa4140a39f28f6e02132a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qbaf54eb38e0c9761c3ab","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":714,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-06-19T17:44:52.967Z","text":"我stay已经写完了，没说这个，只能还没写的人说了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q94f6baa4525cd4616b07","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbaf54eb38e0c9761c3ab","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q94f6baa4525cd4616b07","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q39eadf00a42070919340","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":715,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T19:22:16.405Z","text":"https://x.com/amos_kp/status/2067955561656979905?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q39eadf00a42070919340","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q18a25d066a5986666f4f","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":716,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T19:25:38.948Z","text":"刑事案垮了 他们alter ego再怎么整有屁用","edited":false,"reply_to":"q39eadf00a42070919340","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q18a25d066a5986666f4f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q39eadf00a42070919340","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8ea0727f642f54c85803","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":717,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T19:26:17.636Z","text":"在国外拿了身份回去都被边控，却还有大外宣嚷嚷着要回国，这不明显是挖坑吗https://x.com/ganwen_nl/status/2067540037839782006?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8ea0727f642f54c85803","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qaa41fd393b6bd0390537","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":718,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T19:28:48.787Z","text":"Alter ego.是为了刑事案没收G系列，对吗？刑事案要是没了，破产案啥也搞不到了？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q18a25d066a5986666f4f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaa41fd393b6bd0390537","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q18a25d066a5986666f4f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q62861933b283467ccede","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":719,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T19:29:00.567Z","text":"不是","edited":false,"reply_to":"qaa41fd393b6bd0390537","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q62861933b283467ccede","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaa41fd393b6bd0390537","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qc46e181ffff8c8c578ea","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":720,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T19:29:07.232Z","text":"alter ego 是破产案","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc46e181ffff8c8c578ea","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd7f14cfe0ebc4141fae6","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":721,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-19T19:29:52.265Z","text":"对啊，破产案整这个是不是为了把G系列都归到郭头上，然后刑事案以诈骗所得没收","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd7f14cfe0ebc4141fae6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qaf88489f0ee3ff2f04cb","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":722,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T19:36:50.103Z","text":"破产案alter ego 需要郭认罪","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd7f14cfe0ebc4141fae6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaf88489f0ee3ff2f04cb","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd7f14cfe0ebc4141fae6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd8a117d9134d17e4203a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":723,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T19:36:54.187Z","text":"不认还是没用","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd8a117d9134d17e4203a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q435ad34a9369716e1107","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":724,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T20:50:59.449Z","text":"ACA capital\nTaurus\n郭美的HKHC\n郭强的BVI\n都有luc的诉讼alter ego\n前两个都是pending，等刑事案结果","edited":false,"reply_to":"qaf88489f0ee3ff2f04cb","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q435ad34a9369716e1107","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaf88489f0ee3ff2f04cb","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q36d7c59deaabee8928e3","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":725,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T20:52:47.895Z","text":"这个没确定之前，检方已经先处理了Mahwah，欺诈做实","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q36d7c59deaabee8928e3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qe2c1576350bf6892b5b8","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":726,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T20:54:09.882Z","text":"要自保，只能卖luc，锅给他，提供虚假证据","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe2c1576350bf6892b5b8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8dace8fcba0708d1e60a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":727,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T21:01:55.889Z","text":"luc要余，来美出庭，和要去监狱会面郭 王，都属于luc vs ACA 是郭的alter ego案子\n郭不认罪，案子就卡死，那个382里检方的chart，就是欺诈陪审团","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8dace8fcba0708d1e60a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q66af5c584a910d71d0bd","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":728,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-19T21:06:27.907Z","text":"郭强在BVI赢了alter ego案子，luc似乎很不满意，所以故意逼余出来，而去见郭和王，感觉是吓唬人，郭又不傻，再怎么样，也知道要护犊子，luc去，没有什么效果的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q66af5c584a910d71d0bd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qe5e25bc52ced1520e38e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":729,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-06-19T21:34:18.006Z","text":"那先和外贸公司对敲到自己个人帐户，个人帐户再到农场的，跟外贸公司直汇给农场的不同吧？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q40cb99c5a34c0832222a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe5e25bc52ced1520e38e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q40cb99c5a34c0832222a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb382251498a69fa4e857","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":730,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T21:57:09.576Z","text":"也不行","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe5e25bc52ced1520e38e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb382251498a69fa4e857","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe5e25bc52ced1520e38e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q3952f92497750ed327d6","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":731,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T21:57:19.780Z","text":"你这个虽然和外贸公司直接打钱不一样","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe5e25bc52ced1520e38e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3952f92497750ed327d6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe5e25bc52ced1520e38e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa8884aeb78fe7d1ef7ec","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":732,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T21:57:39.783Z","text":"所以 你这个 走第二条 就是你这个违反外管局规定","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa8884aeb78fe7d1ef7ec","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q530af1d621824dbc2580","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":733,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T21:58:45.960Z","text":"你在转到自己账户的时候 已经违反外管局规定","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q530af1d621824dbc2580","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qffd7ddd085032d4a758f","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":734,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T21:58:59.669Z","text":"欺诈必须是合法所得","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qffd7ddd085032d4a758f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb904881285d08597bdc0","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":735,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T21:59:04.882Z","text":"你这是非法所得","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb904881285d08597bdc0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8af953e50287f94463bb","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":736,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T21:59:18.523Z","text":"所以诈骗罪 洗钱 电汇欺诈 都套不上","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8af953e50287f94463bb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qec1ecf1320b6487beb3a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":737,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:06:24.107Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]  你这个 可以用来定罪 不能用来算损失","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qec1ecf1320b6487beb3a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qe68bfd2e1dc34ae457c2","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":738,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:06:37.299Z","text":"但不能算损失 到最后肯定也把定罪废了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe68bfd2e1dc34ae457c2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q4eb5bdf08b57d4d16430","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":739,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-06-19T22:08:41.811Z","text":"王艳萍是哪个学校毕业的？ 谁说的？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4eb5bdf08b57d4d16430","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q4094568f7ec94551e7fa","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":740,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:10:01.423Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4094568f7ec94551e7fa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb1e5f6665568fa67380a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":741,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:10:10.323Z","text":"王燕平哪个特务学校毕业的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb1e5f6665568fa67380a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q4f67bd1aeaad0f0c5c4e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":742,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:14:10.722Z","text":"洛外毕业","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4f67bd1aeaad0f0c5c4e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qf0f3176848a562e8544b","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":743,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:14:24.908Z","text":"全军唯一的一所外语院校，全国排名前七的军校，隶属于总参谋部，老一辈洛阳人知道，现在的小孩子很少有人了解的。毕竟学校最初的定位比较特殊，和北京的国关，解放军国关这些学校相同，碍于一些问题不能在社会上广泛展开宣传工作，但是这三所学校的生源质量都很好，招生均在一本线以上，和一些211院校录取分数线相同。听父母讲，他们那一辈儿有从这所学校毕业的后来家里人都联系不上了，听说可能从事的是比较敏感的外事职业。中国人民解放军外国语学院1931年，成立中国工农红军无线电培训班。1938年，成立军委日文培训班。1947年，两班合并为军委外文训练班。1949年，改建成为劳动大学（外文训练班）。1951年，劳动大学（外文训练班）与军委工程学校（部分）合并，组建军委技术部干部学校。1957年，更名为中国人民解放军外国语专科学校。1960年，升格为中国人民解放军外国语文学院。1961年，更名为中国人民解放军张家口外国语文学院。1962年，更名为中国人民解放军外国语学院，南京外国语文学院（职能）并入解放军外国语学院。1964年，更名为中国人民解放军技术工程学院。原解放军外国语学院（一系）分出，改建解放军外国语文学院，后发展为解放军第二外国语学校、解放军外国语学院、解放军南京外国语学院、解放军国际关系学院。1969年，撤销解放军技术工程学院。1969年，复校，更名为中国人民解放军第一外国语学校。1975年，升格为中国人民解放军工程技术学院。1978年，更名为中国人民解放军洛阳外国语学院。1981年1月，学院在国家第二批学位审核时，被批准为硕士学位授予单位。1986年，更名为中国人民解放军外国语学院。1983年，解放军外国语学院（部分）分出，改建为解放军信息工程学院，后组建为解放军信息工程大学。1998年6月，被国务院学位委员会批准为博士学位授予单位。2017年6月，解放军外国语学院、解放军信息工程大学合并组建中国人民解放军战略支援部队信息工程大学，隶属中国人民解放军战略支援部队。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf0f3176848a562e8544b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q5edc37d83bd6b3665940","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":744,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:16:13.664Z","text":"这不就是正牌的吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5edc37d83bd6b3665940","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q617ccaa179bdc93b595d","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":745,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-06-19T22:16:25.365Z","text":"王是哪年毕业的？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q617ccaa179bdc93b595d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8b6f29ae6eec41b4fabe","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":746,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:18:13.534Z","text":"[删节：成员身份]  这案子完全靠受害人就可以翻案 不用律师了","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8b6f29ae6eec41b4fabe","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb33c701f7ffd544b673e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":747,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:18:34.757Z","text":"我已经基本研究好了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb33c701f7ffd544b673e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qc4cadb090b84448f01ad","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":748,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:18:51.687Z","text":"2002 年毕业","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc4cadb090b84448f01ad","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q295575ff42ab656ceacc","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":749,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:19:06.587Z","text":"法庭文件显示的 估计有改","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q295575ff42ab656ceacc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q0a8963a0f0a6eb1e4394","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":750,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:19:25.640Z","text":"她 2003 年外公去世后赴法，先在 University of Charles de Gaulle Lille 读硕士，之后又在 University of Marc Bloch（Strasbourg） 读了第二个硕士。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0a8963a0f0a6eb1e4394","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q152c9bb6bf5d8f23e13f","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":751,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:19:41.003Z","text":"在中国拿了两个学士学位、在法国拿了两个硕士学位","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q152c9bb6bf5d8f23e13f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q391c30ede66b9a6dd66b","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":752,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:20:12.193Z","text":"实际上这个案子 律师根本没说清楚","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q391c30ede66b9a6dd66b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q99b3fffa00fdd8c2fdaa","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":753,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:20:19.603Z","text":"怎么损失为负","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q99b3fffa00fdd8c2fdaa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q697353aff6447b105d2b","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":754,"speaker":"nev***","date":"2026-06-19T22:20:45.681Z","text":"她是洛外的不代表就一定是挂牌的特务吧","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q697353aff6447b105d2b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qac9256b6beaffb496803","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":755,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-06-19T22:21:00.153Z","text":"涉嫌特务","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qac9256b6beaffb496803","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qa374db028f06f861348a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":756,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:21:02.776Z","text":"大概率 除非有材料证明","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa374db028f06f861348a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q748f41bac9f7d31d036a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":757,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:21:26.709Z","text":"全军唯一的一所外语院校   也不干净","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q748f41bac9f7d31d036a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb6671b4f414bdfbff6b9","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":758,"speaker":"nev***","date":"2026-06-19T22:21:44.830Z","text":"我不懂的，这个是不是不够solid","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb6671b4f414bdfbff6b9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qf3b59c996638b2e1991b","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":759,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:22:02.184Z","text":"下一个tony 背出这个材料 也可能","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf3b59c996638b2e1991b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qff71aa5707b073cdf4fb","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":760,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-06-19T22:22:06.077Z","text":"敢肯定全国唯一的一个军队外语学院？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qff71aa5707b073cdf4fb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q33b8b55a0963d49bda3e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":761,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:22:25.193Z","text":"不确定共产党的东西  都不确定","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q33b8b55a0963d49bda3e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd3b91ba600084388fde8","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":762,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:22:36.930Z","text":"文件都假假真真","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd3b91ba600084388fde8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qdab1c8e1fe66d2584c8e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":763,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:22:58.356Z","text":"搜索的公开资料而已","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdab1c8e1fe66d2584c8e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q87633c918cbe0ccc9be5","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":764,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:23:12.381Z","text":"法庭文件也显示了一些她的经历","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q87633c918cbe0ccc9be5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qdbc7e0671343df2e4f47","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":765,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-06-19T22:23:46.045Z","text":"good enough","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdbc7e0671343df2e4f47","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q03a1d734878f23a191da","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":766,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:27:43.570Z","text":"所有 中间有中介 对敲 虚拟币的 都不能算损失","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q03a1d734878f23a191da","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qeb3c9ccb3eec98778ec8","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":767,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:27:48.331Z","text":"不管你在哪个国家","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeb3c9ccb3eec98778ec8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q78e9046876345d5bec18","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":768,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:28:08.513Z","text":"管你盖儿承认不承认受害者","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q78e9046876345d5bec18","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qe79c56341d58782bf2ab","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":769,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:29:51.146Z","text":"没登记的 不能算损失","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe79c56341d58782bf2ab","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qec711a6c10d088aee00f","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":770,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:30:03.754Z","text":"现在能算损失的 只有remission的那些人","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qec711a6c10d088aee00f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q4b679382993bbd7f7826","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":771,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:30:29.663Z","text":"那些人 如果也是通过对敲 中介 被阿哲忽悠 被青藤忽悠的 都不能算","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4b679382993bbd7f7826","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q3e0783b1b4e851e70ba7","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":772,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:31:02.192Z","text":"我估计[屏蔽词]13亿最后真的就只有几百万","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3e0783b1b4e851e70ba7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd6433dc3ee9a466cefa9","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":773,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:31:37.320Z","text":"律师的打法绝对有问题","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd6433dc3ee9a466cefa9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q0b82a8fa9e26c0bbbbf9","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":774,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-06-19T22:32:40.103Z","text":"她毕业于2002年， 那个时候 她的学校名字是： 解放军外国语学院， 对不对？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q87633c918cbe0ccc9be5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0b82a8fa9e26c0bbbbf9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q87633c918cbe0ccc9be5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q5c015fe1550a8ae88cd8","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":775,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-06-19T22:33:44.230Z","text":"請問你是怎樣找到王雁平的個人資料的？我上網找不到呢🫣","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf0f3176848a562e8544b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5c015fe1550a8ae88cd8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf0f3176848a562e8544b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q3698ff0f16cff5cd81d8","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":776,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:36:41.387Z","text":"捕风捉影的 要写入法庭文件吗 不合适吧🤪","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0b82a8fa9e26c0bbbbf9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3698ff0f16cff5cd81d8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0b82a8fa9e26c0bbbbf9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qd20006c4d80aefe352b9","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":777,"speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-06-19T22:36:58.240Z","text":"没实证","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd20006c4d80aefe352b9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qc166e1db1d0a056e0865","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":778,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:37:25.132Z","text":"我觉得 可以有人打高风险的策略","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd20006c4d80aefe352b9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc166e1db1d0a056e0865","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd20006c4d80aefe352b9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q306e8db5232ef5811c23","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":779,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:37:33.970Z","text":"量刑本来就可以heresay","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q306e8db5232ef5811c23","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q8d8fee471994dd535c70","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":780,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:37:54.780Z","text":"每个人自己承担责任就好","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8d8fee471994dd535c70","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q222dd3872e149dd7462d","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":781,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:38:24.120Z","text":"检方天天瞎几把扯 比我们严重多了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q222dd3872e149dd7462d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qe49c8de7e13a0af847ad","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":782,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:39:18.338Z","text":"光tony的716-4 联盟账本 黄牛 专家证人足够翻案了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe49c8de7e13a0af847ad","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qfa5550cd0bccee8765fd","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":783,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-06-19T22:40:29.213Z","text":"先把这个炸药包给递上去， 万一老郭的CIPA 与王艳萍等有关的呢","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfa5550cd0bccee8765fd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q628abb556c747745db0d","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":784,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:41:13.859Z","text":"高风险策略😂","edited":false,"reply_to":"qfa5550cd0bccee8765fd","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q628abb556c747745db0d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfa5550cd0bccee8765fd","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q29aa99bf6648c74f12f2","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":785,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-06-19T22:41:17.558Z","text":"检方 只要搭茬 就有可能开个口子","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q29aa99bf6648c74f12f2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q3bb3a87b98d819316b70","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":786,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:42:17.887Z","text":"瑞恩司法欺诈 螺丝哥不敢抓人 都赌赢了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3bb3a87b98d819316b70","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q34e2a3aae29dd4cfc7ee","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":787,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-06-19T22:43:59.199Z","text":"最主要的是 王的表现不正常： 2024年7月，陪审团发现3/9 无罪，2025年一月被判刑， 按理说她这2024年8月后就应该马上做appeal 但是她没有！ 她在等什么？！","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q34e2a3aae29dd4cfc7ee","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q0070db083ed5f6eef69f","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":788,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-06-19T22:44:35.820Z","text":"除非主张钱被外贸公司诈骗，不然，钱进入农场，就算进入G enterprise ，就是被骗。可以主张，那些钱虽然农场对接人员说已经入账了，但这些钱是否被农场管理人员和外贸公司的人员瓜分了，不知道。所以不能算到对被告们的金钱判决。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcc0a61c94e5838b405fa","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0070db083ed5f6eef69f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcc0a61c94e5838b405fa","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q0449b3589a96bf7b434a","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":789,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:45:35.688Z","text":"再引用tony的stay 王啪啪对资金来源了若指掌 她完全知道她的没收无法涵盖所有大陆过来的投资 因为那些钱通过中介黄牛 层层代持 复杂 而她还同意没收 这是欺诈法庭！","edited":false,"reply_to":"q34e2a3aae29dd4cfc7ee","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0449b3589a96bf7b434a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q34e2a3aae29dd4cfc7ee","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q437e0bbcb930439f2310","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":790,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:46:05.722Z","text":"这是定罪逻辑 不是量刑逻辑","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0070db083ed5f6eef69f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q437e0bbcb930439f2310","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0070db083ed5f6eef69f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q0180f5253c852e29d430","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":791,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:46:14.721Z","text":"量刑逻辑 这些钱都不是损失","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0070db083ed5f6eef69f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0180f5253c852e29d430","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0070db083ed5f6eef69f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qb27000855b192e5ac4d6","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":792,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:46:33.716Z","text":"都不是损失 反过来问他 那你定的什么罪？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb27000855b192e5ac4d6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q96711cff509305588e79","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":793,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:48:41.496Z","text":"而且这里面定罪也有问题 尤其是洗钱","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0070db083ed5f6eef69f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q96711cff509305588e79","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0070db083ed5f6eef69f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qecfbff46d41aa846853c","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":794,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-06-19T22:48:47.462Z","text":"［用户 kir***］ \n之前匯入鳳凰農場的錢，是否應該另外起訴九指和夏？","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qecfbff46d41aa846853c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q2b9c98ce54b1b694be54","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":795,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:48:55.303Z","text":"这个不太懂…","edited":false,"reply_to":"qecfbff46d41aa846853c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2b9c98ce54b1b694be54","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qecfbff46d41aa846853c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q56a42846f9702c6b3ec2","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":796,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:49:22.340Z","text":"洗钱罪 必须定义在 犯罪是美国一个什么法案里定义的内容 才行","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q56a42846f9702c6b3ec2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q428cb72a4d708bf7b130","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":797,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:49:58.754Z","text":"而大陆的钱 他犯的是外管局换汇问题 和国安罪 并非是美国定义的罪 [删节：隐私信息]这就解释了 你说的 洗钱 你的钱是干净的","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q428cb72a4d708bf7b130","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q11cd01afbb464b34ae7e","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":798,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:50:38.712Z","text":"大陆的钱 他就算不干净 也不是在你美国定义的不干净 这样洗钱罪是不能定的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q11cd01afbb464b34ae7e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"q5a2d9cd55054c7a2c2bd","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":799,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:51:12.663Z","text":"不用管这么细了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5a2d9cd55054c7a2c2bd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"},{"id":"qcd487f48157423954282","batch_id":"batch-000122","seq":800,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-19T22:51:33.426Z","text":"司法欺诈 布雷迪违规","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd487f48157423954282","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000122"}],"prev_batch_id":"batch-000121","next_batch_id":"batch-000123"}