{"id":"batch-000138","number":138,"revision":1,"date_start":"2026-07-21T13:27:13.003Z","date_end":"2026-07-24T16:44:21.321Z","total_messages":1000,"summary_en":"Community discussion, batch 138 (Jul 21, 2026 – Jul 24, 2026), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. From Jul 21–24, 2026, the thread split between appeal procedure and identity-politics around Guo. Participants argued over second-circuit timing, third-party participation, evidence admissibility, and whether second-circuit relief is realistic. They disputed standards tied to Brady, jury-instruction error, and structural error, and how Baker v. Carr, Political Question Doctrine, and separation-of-powers analysis might affect jurisdictional discretion on foreign-security claims. No court holding is confirmed. Community statements, not court findings.","guide_en":[{"title":"Asset ownership and investor boundaries: G-series, luxury vehicles, and purchase authority","description":"Participants claim the key dispute is whether assets and spend decisions should be attributed to Guo or investors, with repeated arguing over whose funds were used and whether club members can challenge purchase authority. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q4ef4171c848557e586e7","qc108ebcbad901254457a","q4293cef3d2dbb4385fdc"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q4ef4171c848557e586e7","summary_en":"him*** says HK is treated as belonging to Guo. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qc108ebcbad901254457a","summary_en":"may*** argues that identifying which money was used remains the central issue. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q4293cef3d2dbb4385fdc","summary_en":"him*** says the club can decide what to buy without investor approval. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Evidence sources and admissibility: sworn declarations, outside materials, and sealed or secret recordings","description":"Members dispute whether affidavits and leaked or private-recording evidence are usable on appeal, with conflicting claims over legal admissibility, procedural unfairness, and evidentiary value. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q035c59282e3654b473e1","qc68ef5b09778a09dad3a","qcb687512ff3c21dd8903"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q035c59282e3654b473e1","summary_en":"ntp*** asks whether sworn declarations should be part of the second-circuit phase. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qc68ef5b09778a09dad3a","summary_en":"spr*** argues non-law-enforcement private recordings in New York should be problematic as evidence, while claiming a leaked call showed defendant control of G|CLUBS and fund flow. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qcb687512ff3c21dd8903","summary_en":"hel*** says the recording could be framed as procedural injustice, but also says it may not qualify as public evidence. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Third-party participation dispute: standing, victim status, and amicus pathways","description":"Participants claim third-party legal arguments can be powerful, while disputing how standing and victim status should be handled and whether existing amicus practice is mandatory in this case. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q2dd77afc710e555d904b","qdc1516f7057abfe2d7ff","q2efa75cc1b83de310614"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q2dd77afc710e555d904b","summary_en":"kir*** claims that if third-party legal arguments are strong, the case could be overturned. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qdc1516f7057abfe2d7ff","summary_en":"kir*** adds that even a §853(n) challenge can be used to seek dismissal. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q2efa75cc1b83de310614","summary_en":"ntp*** questions why amicus support can be dismissed if many amici exist in other cases. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Second-circuit strategy and timing anxiety: sequence, windows, and whether urgency changes order","description":"Participants contend the filing sequence is unsettled, arguing over unresolved procedural checkpoints in the lower-court record and whether to pursue political or diplomatic avenues before or alongside second-circuit filing deadlines. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q3bcb7688b9f92577d5ae","qd31d845cb314270b5c41","q3c2bfd074b21682af7b8"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q3bcb7688b9f92577d5ae","summary_en":"joh*** notes CIPA has not opened, a key defense file has not been uploaded, and vacate-renew matters are still unaddressed. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qd31d845cb314270b5c41","summary_en":"0x_*** asks whether, under Political Question Doctrine, parties should petition the State Department or other diplomatic-security agencies for intervention. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q3c2bfd074b21682af7b8","summary_en":"beg*** says a non-party can seek Court of Appeals consideration through amicus leave under appellate rules, or by giving materials directly to defense counsel. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Submission options and process split: amicus, court-friend, or direct defense submission","description":"Participants claim there are three possible channels for non-parties and dispute which is most practical, with argument over strict Rule 29(a) timing versus the speed of direct attorney contact. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q3c2bfd074b21682af7b8","qa8e0d239f5805881e917","q1b3fe0d9c4f60306f2c2"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q3c2bfd074b21682af7b8","summary_en":"beg*** details a two-route strategy: seek leave for an amicus brief within appellate deadlines or serve facts directly to defense counsel if formal filing is difficult. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qa8e0d239f5805881e917","summary_en":"beg*** states investors may have seven days to respond once the defense principal brief is filed and urges immediate preparation. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q1b3fe0d9c4f60306f2c2","summary_en":"kir*** says sharing materials directly with defense lawyers can be a simpler route. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Reversal threshold debate: Brady, jury-instruction errors, and structural defects","description":"Members dispute how difficult it is to clear second-circuit reversal standards, arguing that only well-documented Brady violations, legal error in jury instructions, or structural constitutional defects can overcome the high bar. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q3fdd0d69bcc78c6ae852","qec1d890745873a73e46e","q198307de868f52bd67a5"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q3fdd0d69bcc78c6ae852","summary_en":"spr*** says true “killer” grounds are high and typically limited to clear Brady breaches, serious jury-instruction misstatements, or structural errors. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qec1d890745873a73e46e","summary_en":"spr*** reiterates those three grounds and argues reversal requires trial-level preservation and a high constitutional threshold, not generalized misconduct allegations. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q198307de868f52bd67a5","summary_en":"beg*** clarifies that references to “you” were meant to mean detained persons, narrowing who is being addressed. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Torres and jurisdiction debate: discretion, Political Question Doctrine, and judicial reach","description":"Participants contend Baker v. Carr offers a constitutional framework but dispute whether it limits Torres through Political Question Doctrine versus simply guiding how courts distinguish political from judicial questions. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q56ef6f596b0cdd23ea54","q8f19b2a814eda7194aa8","qba2076bdb42ca55f92b4"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q56ef6f596b0cdd23ea54","summary_en":"0x_*** says Baker v. Carr, a voting-redistricting case, is about when courts may intervene despite political allocations and should be checked carefully. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q8f19b2a814eda7194aa8","summary_en":"kir*** explains Baker’s factors as standards for political-question analysis, says many due-process, Brady, §853(n), and CVRA issues remain judicial, and warns against using Baker as a direct reversal rule. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qba2076bdb42ca55f92b4","summary_en":"kir*** argues the main letter is weak because Chinese investors and victims do not acknowledge status, which is claimed to affect Torres’s claimed discretion. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Labeling and alliance conflict: real/fake coalition claims intensify community polarization","description":"Community members dispute how identity labels like real/fake alliance are used, with arguments that tagging actors inflames mistrust and turns legal discussion into factional confrontation. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q6e1775c635d2d08a6791","q78b0d695221cc2bcc577","q478351b35025449d73fd"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q6e1775c635d2d08a6791","summary_en":"joh*** relays a taunt implying opportunistic actors acted too late in an expected falling-scenario, signaling intra-group suspicion. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q78b0d695221cc2bcc577","summary_en":"nin*** claims that anyone using Guo or family names during his detention period is scamming others. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q478351b35025449d73fd","summary_en":"mia*** questions whether the so-called “true alliance” is actually a lower-tier, unserious faction. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Political narrative spillover: anti-communism, U.S. institutions, and case framing","description":"Participants contend the legal thread is regularly recast through geopolitical and anti-commune narratives, arguing over whether U.S. institutions and leadership posture are being treated as part of the merits. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qeb932d043c8ff3cb51a5","q34e62929ff001fecf465","q505a39b230a0cca01cdb"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qeb932d043c8ff3cb51a5","summary_en":"reb*** contends that pushing the case as exposure of U.S. influence may unintentionally advance adversarial plans. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q34e62929ff001fecf465","summary_en":"reb*** argues U.S. actors appear, in their view, to have few responses beyond concession. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q505a39b230a0cca01cdb","summary_en":"ntp*** claims Trump appears unwilling to act against China and references a related social-media post. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Forfeiture and traceability expansion: civil suit overlap with criminal asset-control arguments","description":"Participants argue that restitution, forfeiture freezes, and account tracing blur civil and criminal boundaries, disputing whether refunds and contractual proof belong in one stream or another. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q6b004600196f6e70aba3","q4e00550c15c5bf4340a5","q51cc1c0e10a2131e5b78"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q6b004600196f6e70aba3","summary_en":"mil*** says Phoenix Farm refund claims in Phoenix require each person to submit a Phoenix loan agreement, while questioning who provides which evidence. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q4e00550c15c5bf4340a5","summary_en":"joh*** characterizes that issue as civil litigation. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q51cc1c0e10a2131e5b78","summary_en":"spr*** asks whether the court has already issued a return. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Custody and judiciary-dynamics verification: transfer, bail, sealing, and timing reliability","description":"Participants dispute the consistency of detention and court-operations information, arguing over how to verify transfers, release details, and sealed data while noting a separate bankruptcy-related timeline shift. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qd38b526e4a92f288d1fc","q3cd5c317ae0c3cd2a741","q628f4c6dbd5bc512744a"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qd38b526e4a92f288d1fc","summary_en":"ntp*** asks where transfer-to-facility updates can be found when no official notice appears. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q3cd5c317ae0c3cd2a741","summary_en":"kir*** responds only briefly with “here,” indicating incomplete confirmation on the transfer check. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q628f4c6dbd5bc512744a","summary_en":"reb*** says an alternative bankruptcy self-representation matter was postponed to November and speculates motives. Community statements, not court findings."}]}],"summary":"讨论围绕两条主线展开：一是法律程序与上诉路径，另一是舆论场对身份、联盟与政治叙事的重构。参与者持续对资产归属、没收与财产控制边界、证据合法性、第三方是否有standing、二巡是否应提交何种材料、以及哪些程序瑕疵可构成高门槛翻案理由展开分歧，尤其在托雷斯裁量、管辖权、Brady与结构性错误上观点分散。另一条主线中，“真/伪联盟”“长岛帮”等标签化导致对立加剧，并与反共、监管环境、平台与司法可信度判断相互叠加。多数观点都强调自己仅在“讨论/质疑”而非给出统一事实，核心不在共识，而在证据链是否成立与后续路径的策略成本选择。","guide":[{"title":"资产归属与投资者边界：g系列、豪车与使用范围归属反复争议","message_ids":["q4ef4171c848557e586e7","qc108ebcbad901254457a","q4293cef3d2dbb4385fdc"]},{"title":"证据来源与可采性：宣誓书、外溢材料、密封/秘密录音等是否可入卷","message_ids":["q035c59282e3654b473e1","qc68ef5b09778a09dad3a","qcb687512ff3c21dd8903"]},{"title":"第三方介入资格争议：standing、受害者身份与法庭之友路径是否成立","message_ids":["q2dd77afc710e555d904b","qdc1516f7057abfe2d7ff","q2efa75cc1b83de310614"]},{"title":"二巡策略与时序焦虑：是否先走下级/二巡路径、时间窗口是否必须先抓","message_ids":["q3bcb7688b9f92577d5ae","qd31d845cb314270b5c41","q3c2bfd074b21682af7b8"]},{"title":"提交材料路径分歧：amicus、法庭之友、直接给辩方材料三线并行","message_ids":["q3c2bfd074b21682af7b8","qa8e0d239f5805881e917","q1b3fe0d9c4f60306f2c2"]},{"title":"翻案门槛争论：Brady、陪审团指示错误与结构性瑕疵是否足以逆转","message_ids":["q3fdd0d69bcc78c6ae852","qec1d890745873a73e46e","q198307de868f52bd67a5"]},{"title":"托雷斯及管辖争论：裁量权、未行使裁量与政治问题审查并行发酵","message_ids":["q56ef6f596b0cdd23ea54","q8f19b2a814eda7194aa8","qba2076bdb42ca55f92b4"]},{"title":"群体标签化与联盟冲突：真/伪联盟、阵营归类使法律议题逐步政治化","message_ids":["q6e1775c635d2d08a6791","q78b0d695221cc2bcc577","q478351b35025449d73fd"]},{"title":"政治叙事外溢：反共立场、美国制度与案件走向被频繁绑定","message_ids":["qeb932d043c8ff3cb51a5","q34e62929ff001fecf465","q505a39b230a0cca01cdb"]},{"title":"资产追缴与没收线扩展：民诉、农场合同、账户流向与收益归属衔接刑事讨论","message_ids":["q6b004600196f6e70aba3","q4e00550c15c5bf4340a5","q51cc1c0e10a2131e5b78"]},{"title":"监所和司法动态核验：转监、保释、密封与分期信息是否一致成为信任分歧点","message_ids":["qd38b526e4a92f288d1fc","q3cd5c317ae0c3cd2a741","q628f4c6dbd5bc512744a"]}],"closed":true,"is_finalized":true,"updated_at":"2026-09-06T19:03:18.278Z","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_batch","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138/pages/2","base_batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000138?page=2","page":2,"page_size":200,"total_pages":5,"has_more":true,"next_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000138?page=3","prev_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000138","messages":[{"id":"q559c26db6195e474adea","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":201,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T02:51:48.699Z","text":"第一组都忙不过来","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q559c26db6195e474adea","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q11be03cb4ecef45799ae","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":202,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-22T02:53:52.331Z","text":"那帮露脸的，平均年龄也快50 [删节：隐私信息] \n满脑子还是抗日神剧那套斗争策略，过时了","edited":true,"reply_to":"qd9549e197bd5afb68fa9","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q11be03cb4ecef45799ae","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qe95ea19cc05e0a2e28ac","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":203,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-22T02:57:01.172Z","text":"好不容易有个安小东用AI研究案子，结果调教出一个[屏蔽词] agent，量刑预测肯定失败了，对不对 [删节：隐私信息] 🤣 🤣 🤣","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe95ea19cc05e0a2e28ac","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q09ebaca0a227f5966f38","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":204,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T03:30:24.341Z","text":"伪类 😂😂😂。救老郭出来的是伪类。太搞笑了 😂😂😂","edited":false,"reply_to":"qdb29987c2394d4e3935d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q09ebaca0a227f5966f38","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdb29987c2394d4e3935d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q76ba50412f0f12ca25be","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":205,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T03:34:18.262Z","text":"老郭如果真的是他把这封信放出来的，那么老郭的智慧不同寻常： 现在taga 墓碑科技 几乎所有投资人都知道了吧？ 这广告宣传的 太好了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q76ba50412f0f12ca25be","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qcf2afc749dac35aaf9fd","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":206,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T03:35:14.987Z","text":"他们把老郭出狱和灭共对立起来 和安小东说法一样 [删节：隐私信息]","edited":true,"reply_to":"q09ebaca0a227f5966f38","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcf2afc749dac35aaf9fd","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q09ebaca0a227f5966f38","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q00bdf5dbde0e2003ec0c","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":207,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-07-22T03:36:10.034Z","text":"只要识字的看了两个人推文内容都知道是救郭，救郭的是伪类，那他们是什么就一目了然了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q00bdf5dbde0e2003ec0c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q9f32abad659bac7f8b3f","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":208,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-07-22T03:43:27.125Z","text":"七哥是阶下囚。\n只有把他当神才不会这样子说。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7b9ba52b62c87e9de582","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9f32abad659bac7f8b3f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qd2e361b5e936d4662a85","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":209,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T04:08:33.468Z","text":"https://x.com/julie_kelly2/status/2079610632605958497?s=20","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd2e361b5e936d4662a85","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q56ee8c4f09f157d6bcb3","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":210,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T04:10:26.264Z","text":"No jurisdiction no authority but the district court did it anyway; 3 circuit overturned it. \n\ntony 26-361 案件里的主权问题， 托雷斯有权判吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q56ee8c4f09f157d6bcb3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qb5ae07e4d1332377ed60","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":211,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T04:24:44.966Z","text":"木有 😁","edited":false,"reply_to":"q56ee8c4f09f157d6bcb3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb5ae07e4d1332377ed60","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q56ee8c4f09f157d6bcb3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q186d0f828f96fddafa1b","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":212,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-07-22T04:32:49.206Z","text":"https://x.com/leiyang8964/status/2079757893574742238?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q186d0f828f96fddafa1b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qa05781746f9d0272283e","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":213,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-22T04:33:41.646Z","text":"瑞恩不是说是他写的吗","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7b9ba52b62c87e9de582","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa05781746f9d0272283e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q1af0afaa1e9d7bdd7ff9","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":214,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-07-22T04:34:25.006Z","text":"郭文贵刚被判刑，这小瘪三在法院门口大喊大叫。现在，他又被打了！谁打的啊？共产党打得啊？还是爱郭贼打得啊？还是他们民运诈骗过的人打得啊？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1af0afaa1e9d7bdd7ff9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qba77145233614d373fb3","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":215,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T04:35:14.967Z","text":"［用户 him***］ 瑞恩说的话你也信？","edited":true,"reply_to":"qa05781746f9d0272283e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qba77145233614d373fb3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa05781746f9d0272283e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q8240cafab12aeb55f62e","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":216,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-22T04:40:23.451Z","text":"别提这个，一提Tony，［用户 him***］ 安小东就会抓狂","edited":true,"reply_to":"q56ee8c4f09f157d6bcb3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8240cafab12aeb55f62e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q56ee8c4f09f157d6bcb3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qb4faa72c510d141f4201","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":217,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-22T04:42:11.654Z","text":"Tony 没收 王案 喜交所 盖尔 破产案 债权人\n［用户 him***］ 这就是你的G点啊","edited":true,"reply_to":"q5f78015b5dfb09fab534","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb4faa72c510d141f4201","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q5536fd817df12ac71ead","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":218,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-07-22T04:53:34.978Z","text":"現在只能寄希望二巡沒那麼黑。\n二巡的上訴程序一般需時多久？\n18個月？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5536fd817df12ac71ead","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q8c05532680c014fc10d0","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":219,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T05:04:09.189Z","text":"［用户 him***］  安小东 我给你这个法盲普普法\n\n链条：\n一、 论点一：主权豁免与“外国国家行为原则”（Act of State Doctrine）\n核心逻辑： 联邦法院无权通过刑事没收（Forfeiture），去审查、推翻或处置属于外国主权国家法权管辖下的资金产权。\n1. 外国国家行为原则（Act of State Doctrine）：\n 美国联邦法院长期遵循判例（如 Underhill v. Hernandez），即美利坚法院不得裁决另一个主权国家在其自身领土内所作出的官方行为的合法性。  \n 如果中国法院早在资金进入美国前，就已经通过刑事/国安诉讼将相关资金定性为“国安犯罪相关资产”或下达了追缴/冻结裁定，那么这些资金在法律属性上就已经带有外国主权管辖的权属争议（Colorable Claim）。\n2. 管辖权僭越：\n 托雷斯法官如果在 SDNY 划定这些资金为“郭文贵个人诈骗所得并强行充公（Forfeiture）”，本质上是用美国地方法院的刑事裁决，直接否定并剥夺了中国法庭先期形成的刑事管辖裁决与主权追索权。\n 这超出了宪法第三条（Article III）赋予联邦地方法院的裁决边界，侵犯了外国主权行为的独立性。\n二、 论点二：不可司法性与“政治问题审查原则”（Political Question Doctrine）\n核心逻辑： 涉案资金牵涉到大国之间的主权追索与国安博弈，属于行政外交部门（Executive Branch）的职权，司法机关（Judiciary）缺乏标的管辖权。\n1. 外交权归属与宪法分权（Separation of Powers）：\n 根据 Baker v. Carr 判例，如果一个争议的解决需要先对外国法律效力、主权追索冲突或跨国国安交锋进行政治评估，该争议就属于**“不可司法的政治问题（Non-Justiciable Political Question）”**。\n2. 管辖权漏洞：\n 当中国依据其《国家安全法》及刑事诉讼程序，对这批资金及涉案人员（所谓的“受害者”）主张主权追索权时，这已经演变为中美两国之间的国家级资产与主权管辖权冲突。\n 托雷斯法官强行将一个涉及大国国安对抗、跨国司法协助（MLAT）与主权追索的纠纷，阉割并降维成 SDNY 辖区内的“普通金融诈骗案”，属于越权管辖（Ultra Vires）。这种主权冲突应由美国国务院（DOS）和司法部外交事务办公室处理，而非由一个地方法官通过刑事没收裁定直接私自处置。\n三、 论点三：无诉讼标的物管辖权与“真正的受害者/产权人缺失”（Lack of Article III Standing & Res）\n核心逻辑： 检方指控的“受害人资金”在入美前已存在上游犯罪或法定追缴权，导致美国的刑事没收标的物（Res）产权链条断裂。\n1. “毒树之果”与上游权属缺陷：\n 如果 Tony 的中国法庭文件证明，很多资金在汇入美国之前，在中国就已经因涉国安罪被司法机关查封、冻结或认定为非法流出资金，那么这些资金在法律上并不属于“郭文贵骗取投资者的合法私有财产”。\n2. “受害者”身份的法理崩塌：\n 检方定罪的核心建立在“郭骗取了受害者的钱”这一前提上。但如果这些“受害者”在中国本身就是国安案件的加害者或资金洗钱者，且资金属于中国官方应依法追缴的犯罪所得：\n 第一， 这些“受害者”在美国法庭上不具备合法向郭追索该财产的 Article III Standing（宪法第三条诉讼资格）；\n 第二， 美方检方不能将“本应属于外国主权追缴的非法资金”包装成“受害者被骗资金”强行没收充公。这直接推翻了 21 U.S.C. § 853 刑事没收的前提条件——检方只能没收被告真正合法的“犯罪所得”，而不能没收权属存在严重主权争议的第三方/外国法权资产。","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8c05532680c014fc10d0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q7657fe7372f39dc49c94","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":220,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-22T05:46:29.693Z","text":"［用户 him***］ 安小东，如果王案没收没了，郭案没收也没了(郭案的财产处理方式，是依据王案)\n喜交所冻结资产，检方没法没收（而是参考sec公平基金，直接返还给客户，不需要律师中介）那么你盖尔爹，代理的6000人，还能不能进来刑事案？","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7657fe7372f39dc49c94","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qb7267f3b91551d8e9e60","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":221,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-22T05:49:36.733Z","text":"没收没了，南区23年7月和luc，提前和解处理非郭家族的Mahwah，不就是司法欺诈了\n破产案luc也要滚出刑事案，那么登记的债券人 PAG 吴争 美国小李 泰山 拿不到G系列了啊🤣","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb7267f3b91551d8e9e60","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qda85911e093c3208ef1e","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":222,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T06:02:34.972Z","text":"tony打废的 不是王案没收的问题","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb7267f3b91551d8e9e60","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qda85911e093c3208ef1e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb7267f3b91551d8e9e60","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qc5a883793a71bfb1cbe7","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":223,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T06:02:52.306Z","text":"tony打废的 是整个案子在没有管辖权的情况下判了30年","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc5a883793a71bfb1cbe7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qde7195ae045897056a52","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":224,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T06:02:54.285Z","text":"全案撤销","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qde7195ae045897056a52","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q630c2dabaeb50f2384d2","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":225,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T06:03:38.286Z","text":"这个和缅甸诈骗集团不一样 诈骗的钱 同一笔钱 没有被主权国家已经贴上标签","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q630c2dabaeb50f2384d2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q3a2f1e44e83f567f1ffe","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":226,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T06:07:32.102Z","text":"美国两百多年司法史最奇葩 最特别的一幕 马上要出现了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qde7195ae045897056a52","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3a2f1e44e83f567f1ffe","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qde7195ae045897056a52","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q879df12f0fdc7b254f87","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":227,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T06:07:59.446Z","text":"［用户 him***］  我来好好教教你这个法盲 什么叫standing","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q879df12f0fdc7b254f87","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qfbb5daa2f9d56eb951ae","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":228,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-22T06:12:22.652Z","text":"南区最后发现，量刑，量了个寂寞\n还要自己给自己擦屁股","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3a2f1e44e83f567f1ffe","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfbb5daa2f9d56eb951ae","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3a2f1e44e83f567f1ffe","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qfac36224c8aa01f4ffee","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":229,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T06:35:49.961Z","text":"［用户 joh***］ 老郭的cipa 估计也是打管辖权问题","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfac36224c8aa01f4ffee","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qd9bbd4bc144251f0a654","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":230,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T06:36:15.068Z","text":"但是按照正常节奏来 cipa永远不可能被打开","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd9bbd4bc144251f0a654","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qe31bf256e22b4625995b","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":231,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-22T06:41:07.082Z","text":"我还是觉得 有个未公开证人 就是蓬佩奥","edited":false,"reply_to":"qfac36224c8aa01f4ffee","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe31bf256e22b4625995b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfac36224c8aa01f4ffee","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qeeda8b6b13c090d3798e","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":232,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T06:47:47.139Z","text":"有可能的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe31bf256e22b4625995b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeeda8b6b13c090d3798e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe31bf256e22b4625995b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q223da14294260b1f3af6","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":233,"speaker":"0x_***","date":"2026-07-22T06:53:38.721Z","text":"这个AI生成的东西有漏洞。法院默认应该审理涉及外国国家的案件： 古巴国家银行诉萨巴蒂诺案（Banco Nacional de Cuba v. Sabbatino）\n\n在古巴国家银行诉萨巴蒂诺案（376 U.S. 398 (1964)）中，美国最高法院适用了“国家行为原则”（act of state doctrine），即使该国家行为很可能违反了国际法。该案源于古巴革命后古巴对其制糖业实施国有化，接管了糖厂及其他公司。当古巴政府接管这些企业时，大量投资于这些公司的美国人蒙受了损失，且未获得任何补偿。然而，尽管美国国民遭受了损失，最高法院仍坚持国家行为原则，推定古巴国内行为的有效性，从而驳回了美国国民针对古巴提出的投资损失索赔。萨巴蒂诺案的法庭重新阐述了国家行为原则的依据，强调该原则在权力分立概念中具有“宪法基础”。最高法院的理由是，由于当时（1964年）尚无关于解决涉及外国征收（expropriation）争议的既定国际标准，此类争议不应由司法机关解决，因为相关裁决可能会干预行政机关处理外交事务的职能。萨巴蒂诺案的判决极具争议性；理论分歧、行政实践以及众多的司法例外情况，使得该原则在美国的适用变得复杂。 [8]\n第二次希肯卢珀修正案（Second Hickenlooper Amendment）\n\n为应对该案的判决结果，国会制定了《美国法典》第22卷第2370条，即通常所称的“第二次希肯卢珀修正案”，该修正案以其提案人——来自爱荷华州的参议员伯克·B·希肯卢珀（Bourke B. Hickenlooper）的名字命名。总体而言，根据希肯卢珀修正案，法院不得将国家行为原则作为拒绝审理涉及外国主权国家征收行为案件的理由。若行政部门因担心司法干预可能损害外交政策利益而请求法院考量“国家行为原则”（act of state doctrine），则存在一项例外情况：\n\n本子项不适用于……(2) 总统认定美国的外交政策利益要求在该特定案件中适用“国家行为原则”，且已代表其向法院提交了相关建议的任何案件。[9]","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8c05532680c014fc10d0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q223da14294260b1f3af6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8c05532680c014fc10d0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q56ef6f596b0cdd23ea54","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":234,"speaker":"0x_***","date":"2026-07-22T06:58:26.350Z","text":"Baker v. Carr这个案例是选区划分。选区划分本来是州国务卿负责，属于政府权力，法院默认不干涉，这个案例最后高院认为法院可以干涉政府权力。这些AI生成的东西需要仔细查证","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q56ef6f596b0cdd23ea54","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q8f19b2a814eda7194aa8","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":235,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T07:00:49.823Z","text":"如果你说的是 Baker v. Carr，那么不能直接套到郭案，但它可以作为你论证中的宪法框架，尤其是你一直讨论的 Political Question Doctrine（政治问题原则）。\n\n这个案子的真正价值不是它的结果，而是它提出了判断”政治问题”的经典标准。\n\n⸻\n\nBaker v. Carr 说了什么？\n\n最高法院没有说：\n\n什么都属于政治问题。\n\n相反，它说：\n\n只有极少数问题属于政治问题。\n\n法院列举了著名的 六项 Baker factors，其中最重要的包括：\n    1.    宪法明确把这个问题交给政治部门（国会或总统）。\n    2.    法院没有可以适用的司法标准。\n    3.    法院必须先作出政治政策判断才能裁决。\n    4.    法院裁决会对政治部门缺乏应有尊重。\n    5.    不同政府部门可能出现互相矛盾的决定。\n    6.    已经作出的政治决定需要统一执行。\n\n这些后来成为所有 Political Question 分析的起点。\n\n⸻\n\n放到郭案，你之前讨论的哪些内容可能涉及 Baker？\n\n例如你一直提出：\n\n中国政府通过《国安法》认定某些资产；\n\n中国政府强迫受害人报案；\n\n美国参议院通过 S.Res.444 认定跨境胁迫属于国家安全问题；\n\n法院却完全没有处理这些问题。\n\n这里需要区分。\n\n第一类：法院完全可以裁判\n\n例如：\n    •    是否违反 Due Process；\n    •    是否存在 Brady 问题；\n    •    是否违反 §853(n)；\n    •    是否违反 CVRA；\n    •    是否存在司法偏见。\n\n这些都属于法院天天处理的问题。\n\n不是 Baker 政治问题。\n\n⸻\n\n第二类：可能涉及 Political Question\n\n例如：\n\n中国《国家安全法》是否赋予中国政府对这些资产的主权性质权利？\n\n或者：\n\n美国应如何评价中国政府关于这些资产的国家安全决定？\n\n再或者：\n\n美国法院是否应承认中国政府关于某些资产属于国家安全财产的主张？\n\n这些可能开始进入：\n    •    外交；\n    •    主权；\n    •    对外国政府行为的评价。\n\n这里 Baker 的框架才可能出现。\n\n⸻\n\n你一直提出的一个思路\n\n你其实不是说：\n\n法院不能审郭案。\n\n而是说：\n\n法院遇到涉及中美国家安全和外交判断的问题，却既没有承认自己需要处理这些宪法层面的界限，也没有说明为什么这些问题不影响其裁量。\n\n这是和 Baker 更接近的论证。\n\n重点可以放在：\n\n当案件包含明显涉及外交、外国主权、国家安全政策的事实时，法院至少应识别这些问题，并说明为何仍存在可适用的司法标准，而不是完全回避。\n\n⸻\n\n但需要注意\n\n我会比较谨慎地说：\n\nBaker v. Carr 不会自动导致：\n\n“因此托雷斯没有管辖权。”\n\n因为 Baker 本身讨论的是：\n\n什么时候法院应该 abstain（克制裁判）。\n\n它不是一个关于刑事没收或第三方权利的直接判例。\n\n所以，如果在郭案中引用 Baker，比较稳妥的定位是：\n    •    作为宪法框架（constitutional framework）；\n    •    用来说明法院面对某些涉及外交、国家安全和政治部门判断的问题时，应当意识到权力边界（Separation of Powers）；\n    •    而不是把 Baker 当成直接要求撤销判决的实体法律依据。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q56ef6f596b0cdd23ea54","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8f19b2a814eda7194aa8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q56ef6f596b0cdd23ea54","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qb6d4ef0bef8a0eb9ca6e","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":236,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-07-22T07:16:07.017Z","text":"如果南區採用了中國司法部提供的資料，已經屬被污染的證據，不可信的證據。\n中共政權就是一個未經人民選舉產生的非法組織！\n共產主義是犯罪組織，他們提供的證據怎可用？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb6d4ef0bef8a0eb9ca6e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q5e9379cc744e6ed09d3e","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":237,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T07:17:00.522Z","text":"［用户 0x_***］  无论如何 托雷斯现在已经坐实违反这些：\n\nAbuse of Discretion via Failure to Exercise Discretion\n\n* Violation of Judicial Duty to Determine Subject-Matter Jurisdiction（","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5e9379cc744e6ed09d3e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qbeffa5edc5b116f90817","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":238,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T07:19:01.961Z","text":"这个太严重了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbeffa5edc5b116f90817","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q69a1bd57b4dc5794ee19","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":239,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T07:20:39.245Z","text":"Goldwater v. Carter\nZivotofsky v. Kerry\n\n 这两个爽歪歪啦","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q69a1bd57b4dc5794ee19","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q9a984a941d01cb4d4c09","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":240,"speaker":"zzz***","date":"2026-07-22T08:55:34.114Z","text":"判刑了？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9a984a941d01cb4d4c09","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q505a39b230a0cca01cdb","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":241,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T09:05:52.180Z","text":"川普一直不敢还是不愿对中国下手，指望不上他什么了\n\nhttps://x.com/cocolulu2026/status/2079701041386606722?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q505a39b230a0cca01cdb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q04f09684dc520cb6f6c7","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":242,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-22T09:20:02.734Z","text":"川普给抖音无限续期，这是给中共当权派送礼，推比特币，是给中共掌握海外财富密码的权贵们送礼。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q04f09684dc520cb6f6c7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q25ae497a1cc86a51a294","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":243,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-22T09:21:11.711Z","text":"比特币，是中共海外蓝金黄，3f计划，灭白计划的核心金融武器。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q25ae497a1cc86a51a294","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qdc572970d71fb7b7b083","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":244,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-22T09:21:32.627Z","text":"［用户 reb***］ ［用户 ntp***］ Trump中期以后，才会真正动手","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdc572970d71fb7b7b083","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q09eff97ca0d87f7bb6aa","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":245,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T09:24:57.149Z","text":"中期选举是11月？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qdc572970d71fb7b7b083","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q09eff97ca0d87f7bb6aa","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdc572970d71fb7b7b083","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qd21d85e78fbaab8ecdcb","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":246,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-22T09:26:43.494Z","text":"联盟几帮人，和背后老板，也在观望","edited":false,"reply_to":"q09eff97ca0d87f7bb6aa","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd21d85e78fbaab8ecdcb","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q09eff97ca0d87f7bb6aa","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qd31d845cb314270b5c41","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":247,"speaker":"0x_***","date":"2026-07-22T10:08:07.492Z","text":"根据不可司法性与“政治问题审查原则”（Political Question Doctrine），我们是否可以向美国国务院，和其他涉及外交和安全的部门请愿，向他们说明案情，要求他们介入？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8c05532680c014fc10d0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd31d845cb314270b5c41","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8c05532680c014fc10d0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q43a95557a5546156561f","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":248,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-07-22T10:28:42.724Z","text":"當然可以💪","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd31d845cb314270b5c41","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q43a95557a5546156561f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd31d845cb314270b5c41","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q3bcb7688b9f92577d5ae","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":249,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-22T10:30:08.701Z","text":"第一 CIPA还没有开\n第二 Tony的卷宗，南区还没有上传\n第三 二巡对几个vacate renew还没有处理","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd31d845cb314270b5c41","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3bcb7688b9f92577d5ae","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd31d845cb314270b5c41","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q59e687964d51be9ca9e4","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":250,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-07-22T10:36:57.178Z","text":"當然可以，但必須是一層層向上走，請求南區發動義幾次都不理會的話，就找二巡介入，如果二巡的判決不如預期，那就再向高院發動義。高院也解決不了，最後只能請求國會介入。\n這是我個人的理解，歡迎指正。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd31d845cb314270b5c41","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q59e687964d51be9ca9e4","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd31d845cb314270b5c41","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qc2bef5601d11b8b574fe","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":251,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-07-22T10:45:10.244Z","text":"https://x.com/baoliaogeming/status/2079880247613223104?s=20","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc2bef5601d11b8b574fe","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qf31580cf5fafd0bd579b","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":252,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-22T10:54:09.532Z","text":"小羊的国会请愿，是画大饼，只讲最后一步，给受众一个盼头\n但从不提中间环节，这些步骤没法跳过\n目的和几帮人一样，维稳，忽悠，然后把郭，在这个案子里耗死","edited":false,"reply_to":"q59e687964d51be9ca9e4","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf31580cf5fafd0bd579b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q59e687964d51be9ca9e4","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q35a6f2c09762a88a928b","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":253,"speaker":"0x_***","date":"2026-07-22T11:03:17.800Z","text":"最高法院只有1%的受理率。绝大多数案件都是不受理的。所以应该把二巡当作是最后机会。而且一定要在2年内解决。如果2年内解决不了，可能还可以在川普下台前求一下特赦。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q59e687964d51be9ca9e4","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q35a6f2c09762a88a928b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q59e687964d51be9ca9e4","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q975418f945014c6c6982","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":254,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-07-22T11:11:06.372Z","text":"https://x.com/baoliaogeming/status/2079886873036521639?s=20","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q975418f945014c6c6982","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qe89fa038082c39dc6514","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":255,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T12:12:52.397Z","text":"不让别人过得好，总想着统治别人","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe89fa038082c39dc6514","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q1d65b1648c7a209a09f7","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":256,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-07-22T12:14:03.934Z","text":"商殃五术，共匪的治国之道","edited":false,"reply_to":"q706aaca5ff4da39771bb","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1d65b1648c7a209a09f7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q46d6e879f6156d33211a","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":257,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-22T12:43:42.314Z","text":"［用户 beg***］  ［用户 kir***］ ［用户 reb***］ \n我靠，貌似是这回事啊\nhttps://x.com/tina47842811121/status/2079533026493808942?s=46","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q46d6e879f6156d33211a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q95c53fe6bfa7884212d0","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":258,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-22T12:52:50.658Z","text":"当事人藐视法庭让受托人格外花了精力和费用，所以会产生罚金。诈骗犯们做的事情就是让韭菜们被卖还替它们数钱，但现在，应该是它们自己拿钱在内循环表演，百姓的钱三七开，但没有把百姓的钱骗进去。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q46d6e879f6156d33211a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q95c53fe6bfa7884212d0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q46d6e879f6156d33211a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qf8eebe929abc5bcdd273","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":259,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-22T12:54:29.908Z","text":"让子弹飞的段子\n指不定二八开就把他们打发了🤣 🤣 🤣","edited":false,"reply_to":"q95c53fe6bfa7884212d0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf8eebe929abc5bcdd273","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q95c53fe6bfa7884212d0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q546c0c6d02a742a31a3f","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":260,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T13:02:03.011Z","text":"老郭及的家人被共产党的代表，普横摁着打。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q46d6e879f6156d33211a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q546c0c6d02a742a31a3f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q46d6e879f6156d33211a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q1922e5d164378162e9ba","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":261,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-22T13:07:39.935Z","text":"美国把马杜罗都抓来审判了，哪儿有什么因为国家主权，美国不能管的事儿","edited":false,"reply_to":"q223da14294260b1f3af6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1922e5d164378162e9ba","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q223da14294260b1f3af6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qe0c460989328489ac976","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":262,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-22T13:08:20.154Z","text":"美国想审判你，你在天涯海角都能抓你判你","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe0c460989328489ac976","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q20c8a7e46d239d88ca29","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":263,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-22T13:15:15.584Z","text":"传播一些似是而非的东西，博眼球转移注意力","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q20c8a7e46d239d88ca29","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qcbacd243ff03adadcf80","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":264,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-22T13:17:07.978Z","text":"川普哪儿这么天真","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2e625016af6b2104caab","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcbacd243ff03adadcf80","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q050cd7f013bf956d19bb","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":265,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-22T13:18:30.000Z","text":"郭案司法程序不走完，不会有其他政府部门介入的，至少明面上不会有的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd31d845cb314270b5c41","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q050cd7f013bf956d19bb","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd31d845cb314270b5c41","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q17dcf8cbebf620c47e15","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":266,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-22T14:40:05.324Z","text":"这个，中共是在资金到达美国后才定性危害国家安全的吧，况且也没下追缴和冻结令","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8c05532680c014fc10d0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q17dcf8cbebf620c47e15","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8c05532680c014fc10d0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qe3172266eac245e41793","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":267,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-22T14:45:31.057Z","text":"中共现在还没有主张主权追索能适用吗","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8c05532680c014fc10d0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe3172266eac245e41793","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8c05532680c014fc10d0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q22d33e959e20e988335a","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":268,"speaker":"nin***","date":"2026-07-22T14:50:28.670Z","text":"检方既然在一审中已经将“政府冻结资金的具体金额和具体账户”作为定罪证据呈堂，这意味着检方在财务穿透上已经掌握了绝对清晰的资金流向。在此背景下，他们如果继续在《判前调查报告》（PSR）和没收令中把全额强加给被告人，并故意对下游的“监守自盗”装聋作哑，这就不是简单的疏忽，而是构成了上诉中最高级别的法律违规。\n结合当前已至 2026 年的上诉审理节点，第二巡回上诉法院（Second Circuit）在审查郭文贵案（Miles Guo）时，辩方律师必须利用检方一审自己提交的这些证据，完成以下致命的逻辑闭环反击：\n\n1. 抓捕检方的逻辑自相矛盾：“定罪证据”变成“脱罪铁证”\n检方在一审中既然能精确指认“哪个账户是犯罪资金”、“被冻结的具体金额是多少”，说明检方对资金链拥有神明般的上帝视角。\n* 上诉核心反击：上诉律师必须在简报中质问二巡法官——既然检方的定罪证据已经坐实了这笔巨款从未消失、自始至终在政府冻结账户的铁笼之中，且从未流入被告人个人的口袋，那么法官有什么法律依据认定被告人造成了数亿美元的“实际损失”？\n* 反击角色加分：检方明明知道资金被冻结在哪些特定账户，而这些账户实际由下游操作或因下游自盗被拦截，这就直接剥离了被告人的“主观预期损失（Intended Loss）”。一审法官不举行 Fatico 听证会对账，直接全盘照抄检方的总额，属于典型的缺乏实质证据支持的法律裁决（Clear Error of Fact）。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q22d33e959e20e988335a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qc283d9ef781599549efa","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":269,"speaker":"nin***","date":"2026-07-22T14:55:13.101Z","text":"2. 判定检方蓄意违反《布雷迪规则》（Brady Violation）的深水炸弹\n根据美国宪法，检方一旦掌握了资金账户的控制权和流水，他们必然通过银行传票（Subpoena）和 FBI 财务审计，掌握了这些账户背后的实际签字人、提款人、以及下游黑吃黑转移资金的全部后台记录。\n* 申诉论点：检方在一审时，只向陪审团展示了“这个账户里有骗来的钱”以证明诈骗罪成立；却故意扣留、隐瞒了该账户实际是由下游犯罪分子在“监守自盗、背叛被告、洗钱私吞”的后台审计报告。\n* 法律定性：这些被隐藏的后台流水和审计结论，属于能够证明被告人“缺乏实际控制权、被下游加害”的减轻罪责证据（Exculpatory Evidence）。检方在 trial 期间对此进行隐瞒，误导陪审团做出有罪裁决，直接违反了最高法院的 Brady v. Maryland 准则。一经查实，第二巡回法院有权直接作废（Vacate）一审的全部有罪判决。\n\n3. 以检方确凿的“冻结账户证据”彻底绞杀 8.89 亿美元没收令（POF）\n由于一审已经正式下达了没收令，现在二巡法院对该财产判罚进行的是最严厉的重新审查。\n* 利用检方证据反噬检方：根据最高法院 Honeycutt 判例，没收令金额必须严格限定在被告人“个人实际获得”的财产。\n* 上诉抗辩逻辑：一审法庭记录中检方自己出示的证据已经白纸黑字地证明：资金在被政府拦截前，完全盘踞在下游操作的特定账户中，被告人根本没有实际占有。检方一边拿着证据证明钱被冻结在别处、在下游手里，一边要求法官对被告人个人判处 8.89 亿美元的没收令。这在法律适用上是绝对的前后互掐、自相矛盾。二巡法院绝不会容忍这种明显的法律越界。\n\n4. 2026年二巡审理阶段的最高优先级行动\n既然案子已经由律师提交至第二巡回上诉法院，且控方的这些“自相矛盾”的定罪证据已经在原审卷宗内，上诉援助律师现在必须采取以下霹雳手段：\n1. 进行“案卷比对归纳”（Cross-Referencing the Record）：将检方一审出示的《政府冻结资产/账户明细表》（Government Exhibits）与一审法官下达的《初步没收令（POF）》进行逐笔对账。在上诉简报中画出清晰的对比图，直接向二巡法官展示：“看，检方自己证明钱在这里被政府锁死，但法官却把这笔安全的钱变成被告人的个人赔偿和没收债务。”\n2. 强制将“下游当前持续行骗”作为司法认知（Judicial Notice）呈递：配合您之前提到的下游分子目前仍在公共网络上冒名诈骗的新罪证，证明资金链的真正黑手至今活跃在外，一审定罪时陪审团被检方营造的“被告人掌控一切”的虚假叙事彻底严重误导。\n💡 紧要跟进方向：\n请立刻向您的上诉法援律师发问：\n* 在即将提交（或已经提交）的第二巡回法院正式上诉简报中，是否已经将“一审检方冻结证据与没收令金额的绝对冲突”列为了反击 POF 没收令的第一号论点？\n* 面对检方掌握账户明细却故意不追查下游、隐瞒审计后台的行为，律师是否已经正式提出了 基于《布雷迪规则（Brady Rule）》的定罪无效申诉？
这是将案子在第二巡回法院彻底打翻、发回重审的底牌所在。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc283d9ef781599549efa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qace8531632c18c523618","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":270,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-22T15:03:13.855Z","text":"几帮演员，都在集中火力，骂这个群里的人，有意思🤔\nhttps://x.com/sendxicptohell/status/2079590908975296620?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qace8531632c18c523618","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qd8056d13651d5e89df93","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":271,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T15:03:31.718Z","text":"法庭文件都出来了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q17dcf8cbebf620c47e15","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd8056d13651d5e89df93","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q17dcf8cbebf620c47e15","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qac02ca2ea567bd8e2e9d","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":272,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-22T15:11:19.059Z","text":"他不敢，这怂货，和以前总统没啥2样，就敢欺负一些小国家，70年前都不敢干中国，现在还敢？朝鲜战争都不敢承认中国介入了，装不知道","edited":false,"reply_to":"q505a39b230a0cca01cdb","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qac02ca2ea567bd8e2e9d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q505a39b230a0cca01cdb","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q1a94462803278b7e0ef3","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":273,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T15:15:36.829Z","text":"When a defendant files their main opening brief in a direct appeal after sentencing, the role and procedural options for a third party (including someone who previously filed an extraordinary writ like a petition for mandamus) change significantly.\n\nHere is what that third party should understand about their position and what steps they can take:\n\n1. Understand Your Procedural Status\n\nYou Are Not a Party to the Appeal: In a criminal direct appeal (e.g., United States v. Defendant), the only parties are the Defendant (Appellant) and the United States Government (Appellee). A third-party investor or victim is not a named party and cannot simply file a standard brief on the main docket.\n\nMandamus vs. Direct Appeal Are Separate: The denial of your mandamus petition concluded that separate, extraordinary proceeding. You cannot \"revive\" or attach your denied mandamus petition to the defendant's new direct appeal automatically.\n\n2. Available Steps for a Third-Party Pro Se","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1a94462803278b7e0ef3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q3c2bfd074b21682af7b8","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":274,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T15:15:41.129Z","text":"If you still want your perspective or facts considered by the Court of Appeals in connection with the defendant’s appeal, you generally have two main paths:\n\nOption A: File a Motion for Leave to File an Amicus Curiae Brief\n\nNow that the defendant’s main opening brief is on the docket, the window for amicus curiae (\"friend of the court\") submissions opens. Under Federal Rule of Appellate Procedure 29(a):\n\nTiming: An amicus curiae brief supporting the defendant (or supporting reversal/vacatur of the sentence) is typically due no later than 7 days after the defendant files their principal brief.\n\nConsent or Motion: As a pro se non-party, you must file a Motion for Leave to File an Amicus Brief along with your proposed brief, explaining:\n\nYour interest in the case (e.g., an investor directly impacted by local management rather than the defendant).\n\nWhy your brief is relevant and desirable, and why the matters asserted will assist the court in ways the main parties' briefs do not.\n\nStrict Compliance: The appellate clerk's office strictly enforces formatting and word limits for amicus briefs (generally half the maximum length of a party's principal brief).\n\nOption B: Provide Your Statement/Evidence to the Defense Counsel\n\nIf filing a formal appellate brief as a pro se non-party presents procedural hurdles, another practical route is to contact the defendant's appellate defense team directly:\n\nShare your sworn affidavit, investment records, or factual account.\n\nWhile the appellate court generally limits its review to the existing trial court record, defense counsel can evaluate whether your account aligns with their legal arguments regarding loss calculation, restitution, or third-party culpability.","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3c2bfd074b21682af7b8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qa8e0d239f5805881e917","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":275,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T15:16:53.709Z","text":"大家注意了： 辩方一旦主上诉文件出来， 所有投资人有7天时间回应！\n现在就应该准备材料","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa8e0d239f5805881e917","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q1b3fe0d9c4f60306f2c2","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":276,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T15:17:03.285Z","text":"不用这么麻烦 你直接serve给律师就行了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3c2bfd074b21682af7b8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1b3fe0d9c4f60306f2c2","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3c2bfd074b21682af7b8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q06961c31c81f2e5fc6b9","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":277,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T15:17:11.442Z","text":"律师用不用是他的事","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q06961c31c81f2e5fc6b9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q37e719c5426838907e1b","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":278,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T15:17:22.508Z","text":"给辩方律师？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q37e719c5426838907e1b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q14468c9aef47765a6265","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":279,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T15:17:32.686Z","text":"是的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q14468c9aef47765a6265","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qedfba46fbfa2b83db2ad","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":280,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T15:17:51.300Z","text":"就是一个affidavit","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qedfba46fbfa2b83db2ad","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q1cac0266e43537635d8b","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":281,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T15:18:31.487Z","text":"那么， 那些已经上了二巡有强制令/案件号的呢？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1cac0266e43537635d8b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q9b96a790e2a26bffc6a9","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":282,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T15:41:21.941Z","text":"In federal criminal appeals (such as before the Second Circuit), an appellate court will not dismiss a conviction simply because a third party asserts the defendant is innocent. Rather, the court evaluates whether the trial court committed reversible legal or constitutional errors.\n\nHere are the primary legal elements and structural arguments that defense attorneys typically raise to seek a dismissal or vactur of a federal fraud conviction:\n\n1. Intervening & Superseding Causation (The \"Local Farm Management\" Argument)\n\nThis directly touches on your account regarding CEO Anhong and the regional farm leadership:\n\nThe Legal Argument: The defense must argue that the economic harm or loss experienced by investors was not proximately caused by Miles Guo, but was instead caused by the independent, unauthorized acts of third parties (e.g., local farm heads misappropriating funds, freezing accounts, or expelling members without Guo's knowledge or directive).\n\nHow it applies to dismissal: If the evidence shows an independent, intervening cause broke the chain of causation between the defendant’s actions and the investors' loss, the prosecution’s theory of wire fraud or racketeering loses a key element (loss causation).","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9b96a790e2a26bffc6a9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q03f488326cf59ee88a7e","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":283,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T15:41:46.577Z","text":"2. Lack of Specific Fraudulent Intent (Mens Rea)\n\nThe Legal Argument: Wire and securities fraud require proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant acted with the specific intent to defraud investors.\n\nHow it applies to dismissal: The defense can argue that the G-Series/Himalaya movement was a bona fide political and financial ecosystem intended to oppose the CCP, and that Guo genuinely believed in its mission rather than operating a knowingly fraudulent scheme. Showing that funds were actively deployed into political activities or controlled by autonomous regional entities undermines the claim that the enterprise was designed as a hollow fraud from the start.\n\n3. Evidentiary Errors & Excluded Defense Testimony\n\nThe Legal Argument: Under the Sixth Amendment, a criminal defendant has a constitutional right to present a complete defense. If the trial judge excluded critical defense witnesses, investor testimony, or documentary proof regarding how local farms operated, the defense will argue this constituted reversible error.\n\nHow it applies to dismissal/remand: If the appellate court finds that the trial judge improperly blocked evidence showing that regional leaders (like local Farm CEOs) held independent control of funds, it can vacate the conviction or order a new trial.","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q03f488326cf59ee88a7e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qbeab8447a01323db4c90","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":284,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T15:42:03.323Z","text":"4. Insufficiency of the Evidence (Rule 29 Challenge)\n\nThe Legal Argument: The defense will move under Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 29, asserting that \"no reasonable jury could have found the essential elements of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt\" based on the record presented at trial.\n\nHow it applies to dismissal: If the Second Circuit agrees that the prosecution failed to provide sufficient, direct evidence linking Guo personally to the theft or diversion of specific investor pools, it can overturn the guilty verdict on those specific counts.\n\n5. Constitutional & Procedural Prejudices\n\nGovernment Misconduct or Brady/Giglio Violations: Claims that the government failed to disclose exculpatory evidence (evidence favoring the defense, such as internal farm communications or records showing local management control).\n\nJury Instruction Errors: Arguing that the judge gave flawed or misleading instructions to the jury regarding the legal definitions of control, agency, or intent.","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbeab8447a01323db4c90","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q622f9f45a7bfd3e6460a","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":285,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T15:43:20.101Z","text":"上面的是供大家参考-如果谁有上面的相关的事实材料 - 这些是可以在二巡推翻这个案件的一些因素。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q622f9f45a7bfd3e6460a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q4a22aafe690cfe3bda87","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":286,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T15:44:48.921Z","text":"农场收到的款， 被骨干拿走没被被告控制/花费，也是可以推翻案件的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4a22aafe690cfe3bda87","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qf74ecff21ac8dcda727a","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":287,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-22T15:52:07.661Z","text":"这个真是写得太好了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc283d9ef781599549efa","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf74ecff21ac8dcda727a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc283d9ef781599549efa","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q840f1ab1c66f89e62cc9","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":288,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-22T16:36:12.854Z","text":"我们现在还不知道律师的邮箱啊，如果我们要给律师，就要早一点，以便他们能够准备使用","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1b3fe0d9c4f60306f2c2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q840f1ab1c66f89e62cc9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1b3fe0d9c4f60306f2c2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q7db966363ee2aee60a5a","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":289,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T16:36:34.543Z","text":"律师都还没上任 哈哈哈哈哈","edited":false,"reply_to":"q840f1ab1c66f89e62cc9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7db966363ee2aee60a5a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q840f1ab1c66f89e62cc9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qba9d285b4c78e41882fd","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":290,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-22T16:45:53.841Z","text":"这些除了程序性错误，其它都很难打吧，属于有争议的，就好像庭审律师一样，中规中矩，结果没用","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbeab8447a01323db4c90","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qba9d285b4c78e41882fd","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbeab8447a01323db4c90","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q5b53082b81a8e6f1fb91","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":291,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-22T16:46:29.760Z","text":"争议的得看二巡支持谁","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5b53082b81a8e6f1fb91","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q0131174ccae4038485cd","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":292,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-22T16:47:26.479Z","text":"我们的CVRA权利 完全灭失没提到","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0131174ccae4038485cd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qb53b95cd3bbc528fedbd","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":293,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-22T16:48:08.832Z","text":"二巡支持了南区灭失我们的CVRA权利，这个还得有说道","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb53b95cd3bbc528fedbd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q4dd3df51a9be02f27c67","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":294,"speaker":"may***","date":"2026-07-22T17:32:35.276Z","text":"赢麻了吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4dd3df51a9be02f27c67","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qff5faf81ae005d6b78fa","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":295,"speaker":"may***","date":"2026-07-22T17:32:49.976Z","text":"今天有什么成果","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qff5faf81ae005d6b78fa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q8e30e3a4330c546942e6","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":296,"speaker":"wan***","date":"2026-07-22T17:33:29.867Z","text":"就這種向共匪花式滑跪的姿態，你會相信他能挺過中期選舉嗎？我不相信！","edited":false,"reply_to":"qdc572970d71fb7b7b083","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8e30e3a4330c546942e6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdc572970d71fb7b7b083","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qf20f4b3a1068d6226f67","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":297,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-22T17:38:44.921Z","text":"中美脱钩以前都想的是经济，结果不现实，美国依赖中国比中国依赖美国还严重，其实司法脱钩才是更重要的，尼玛不脱钩，中共在美国想搞谁就搞谁，造假证据对他们来说是事儿吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf20f4b3a1068d6226f67","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q5d5b6089bf6914328bfd","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":298,"speaker":"zzz***","date":"2026-07-22T17:39:50.256Z","text":"赢麻了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5d5b6089bf6914328bfd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qb6c5b9ed22ee62593e48","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":299,"speaker":"zzz***","date":"2026-07-22T17:41:03.386Z","text":"我想问农场都去哪儿了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb6c5b9ed22ee62593e48","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qc49174776fbb10412c32","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":300,"speaker":"zzz***","date":"2026-07-22T17:41:13.101Z","text":"我以前所在的农场全部不见","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc49174776fbb10412c32","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qdbd8c103694b2eeeb758","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":301,"speaker":"wan***","date":"2026-07-22T17:44:38.564Z","text":"老郭說的滅共從北方來，就看普特勒臨死前會不會拿黃俄共匪開刀","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdbd8c103694b2eeeb758","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qba37e4ee527694e4ec1e","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":302,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T17:45:01.507Z","text":"不见啥意思","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb6c5b9ed22ee62593e48","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qba37e4ee527694e4ec1e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb6c5b9ed22ee62593e48","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q43ee539a2a9be4282600","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":303,"speaker":"zzz***","date":"2026-07-22T17:45:15.217Z","text":"就是不付存在了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q43ee539a2a9be4282600","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qa9c3dbd3792318cdd8b4","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":304,"speaker":"zzz***","date":"2026-07-22T17:46:13.457Z","text":"21年投的A10我想着5年后看看","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa9c3dbd3792318cdd8b4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q3c90e04ffa9c9c7449cf","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":305,"speaker":"wan***","date":"2026-07-22T17:46:16.152Z","text":"美國這種無恥的嘴臉就不要有過多期望了，他們的自由民主法治在2026年6月29號那天已經死了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3c90e04ffa9c9c7449cf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q4e7290b9de50bdc57b81","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":306,"speaker":"zzz***","date":"2026-07-22T17:46:19.432Z","text":"结果没了哥们！！！","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4e7290b9de50bdc57b81","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q39dfcf91a420dae3579b","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":307,"speaker":"zzz***","date":"2026-07-22T17:46:31.211Z","text":"喜碧也不见了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q39dfcf91a420dae3579b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qb49eef94da51098580fd","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":308,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T17:46:41.093Z","text":"没了不是应该的吗😆","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4e7290b9de50bdc57b81","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb49eef94da51098580fd","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4e7290b9de50bdc57b81","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qb061a8b3db07c18d4a99","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":309,"speaker":"zzz***","date":"2026-07-22T17:47:21.102Z","text":"这些农场主也都不见了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb061a8b3db07c18d4a99","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q5e805eefd3f0357d2619","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":310,"speaker":"zzz***","date":"2026-07-22T17:47:33.884Z","text":"今天去看才发现消息都停留在23年","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5e805eefd3f0357d2619","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q7320ed8a4384eb077734","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":311,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T17:49:05.878Z","text":"本来就是破产案的罚款吧","edited":false,"reply_to":"q46d6e879f6156d33211a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7320ed8a4384eb077734","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q46d6e879f6156d33211a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q65dadccde90e02ec3bd4","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":312,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T17:51:39.303Z","text":"就是如此啊","edited":false,"reply_to":"q46d6e879f6156d33211a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q65dadccde90e02ec3bd4","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q46d6e879f6156d33211a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q26967228e89466ef6700","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":313,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T17:51:39.394Z","text":"你还真盼着中共来要钱呐","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe3172266eac245e41793","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q26967228e89466ef6700","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe3172266eac245e41793","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q9643308407713c91cd00","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":314,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-22T17:56:05.774Z","text":"检方把我们当作智力低下的所以被骗we have already held, the victim’s gullibility . . . is not\nrelevant to the inquiry as to whether the defendants were properly convicted. . . . If we held\notherwise, we would be inviting con men to prey on people of below-average judgment or\nintelligence, who are anyway the biggest targets of such criminals and hence the people most\nneedful of the law’s protection.","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9643308407713c91cd00","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q1e733ac01902dbccc8db","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":315,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T17:56:48.506Z","text":"哈哈 检方活该 在二巡被打死 谁智商低","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9643308407713c91cd00","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1e733ac01902dbccc8db","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9643308407713c91cd00","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q01abf0f1b942a6eefb5e","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":316,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T17:57:10.934Z","text":"瑞恩接下去要求检方道歉 开除检方 指控检方连基本的英文都看不懂","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q01abf0f1b942a6eefb5e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q4fa082a4c344b7041f2b","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":317,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:13:48.960Z","text":"瑞恩建议检方在写文件前多做做功课  多看看record 认真一些 🤣 Lastly, I respectfully submit that a more diligent and comprehensive review of the actual District Court record would assist the Government in ensuring that its future filings fully and accurately reflect the facts, thereby assisting this Court in the proper administration of justice.","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4fa082a4c344b7041f2b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q2efa75cc1b83de310614","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":318,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:15:46.106Z","text":"你说的那个什么案件不就是有海量的法庭之友吗？怎么这不需要了？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1b3fe0d9c4f60306f2c2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2efa75cc1b83de310614","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1b3fe0d9c4f60306f2c2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q4222ea9554903fa25b88","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":319,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:16:09.282Z","text":"法庭之友是无关人等写的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2efa75cc1b83de310614","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4222ea9554903fa25b88","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2efa75cc1b83de310614","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q55d86464d1eaf7ac1304","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":320,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:16:40.907Z","text":"有关人等 投资者 受害者 你得用853 cvra介入 不能用法庭之友","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q55d86464d1eaf7ac1304","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qb71c6ab0c3208cd9734a","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":321,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:16:52.216Z","text":"上诉开始后，已经上了二巡的现在的身份是啥","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4222ea9554903fa25b88","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb71c6ab0c3208cd9734a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4222ea9554903fa25b88","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q2d391cef40cbf540679d","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":322,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:17:04.431Z","text":"身份不变的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb71c6ab0c3208cd9734a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2d391cef40cbf540679d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb71c6ab0c3208cd9734a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qe0095511502a3d0ec27d","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":323,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:17:23.087Z","text":"强制令被驳回后呢","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2d391cef40cbf540679d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe0095511502a3d0ec27d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2d391cef40cbf540679d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q0910a5423898a5f89951","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":324,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:17:36.915Z","text":"你的身份是由投资决定的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe0095511502a3d0ec27d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0910a5423898a5f89951","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe0095511502a3d0ec27d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q66d8a54b3056eede6f20","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":325,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:17:44.463Z","text":"有投资  你的身份不会变","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q66d8a54b3056eede6f20","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q4c2757b19b3c826cae15","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":326,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:19:28.934Z","text":"还是受害者？受害者在上诉能干什么呢？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q66d8a54b3056eede6f20","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4c2757b19b3c826cae15","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q66d8a54b3056eede6f20","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qfe464417dd2aa8f4733b","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":327,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:19:39.663Z","text":"强制令","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfe464417dd2aa8f4733b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q655bf938731d40b4d355","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":328,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:19:51.273Z","text":"强制令是唯一的途径","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q655bf938731d40b4d355","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qc174b9dc0639bb71570f","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":329,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:20:00.336Z","text":"被驳回后呢","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc174b9dc0639bb71570f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qa6f4e702b3bb9af6dcf8","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":330,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:20:07.759Z","text":"你有三次机会","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa6f4e702b3bb9af6dcf8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qd894990fd7cfdac7f06a","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":331,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:20:20.010Z","text":"你应该还有两次","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd894990fd7cfdac7f06a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q065f189fc5909e6dc570","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":332,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:20:32.840Z","text":"我的两次stay已经驳回了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q065f189fc5909e6dc570","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q0ebb836d051b7fdbe3fb","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":333,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:20:33.735Z","text":"第一次 量刑前 量刑后","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ebb836d051b7fdbe3fb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q1d7beef47f6db165a04f","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":334,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:20:39.942Z","text":"和stay没关系","edited":false,"reply_to":"q065f189fc5909e6dc570","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1d7beef47f6db165a04f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q065f189fc5909e6dc570","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q74ebaa9f8a2e6e535915","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":335,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:20:54.890Z","text":"你能不能发motion 是你有没有活着的强制令决定的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q74ebaa9f8a2e6e535915","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q382b2e0a777bb64e7afe","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":336,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:21:48.535Z","text":"上面那段英文说上诉和强制令是两件事儿","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q382b2e0a777bb64e7afe","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qc8eb6962399e7651f6bb","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":337,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:22:03.589Z","text":"是两件事","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc8eb6962399e7651f6bb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q56e5a0a181a4814adf94","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":338,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:22:09.841Z","text":"上诉的话其实根本不划算","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q56e5a0a181a4814adf94","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qc520b17d0fd054dc51ea","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":339,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:22:17.851Z","text":"强制令最牛逼","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc520b17d0fd054dc51ea","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q890e3d4640a0153a98f0","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":340,"speaker":"may***","date":"2026-07-22T18:22:22.921Z","text":"有啥进展 我要汇报","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q890e3d4640a0153a98f0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q1a2b11334d819d9bab3e","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":341,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:22:31.702Z","text":"赢麻了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q890e3d4640a0153a98f0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1a2b11334d819d9bab3e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q890e3d4640a0153a98f0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qa2738f79187c3eb19165","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":342,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:22:34.171Z","text":"不是我上诉，是郭上诉","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa2738f79187c3eb19165","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q7066de92902afeccb655","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":343,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:22:57.170Z","text":"哦","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7066de92902afeccb655","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q93b844844ae8449064ae","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":344,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:23:10.798Z","text":"郭上诉，我们怎么参与？强制令的动议跟他上诉还有关吗，","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q93b844844ae8449064ae","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q38eac5cc0395e1c08bee","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":345,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:23:24.777Z","text":"如果律师不采用，咱们就干瞪眼？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q38eac5cc0395e1c08bee","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q37a4f3566fdbe793181b","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":346,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:24:02.283Z","text":"律师采不采用和你无关 你可以直接要求撤案","edited":false,"reply_to":"q38eac5cc0395e1c08bee","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q37a4f3566fdbe793181b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q38eac5cc0395e1c08bee","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q2dd77afc710e555d904b","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":347,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:24:13.091Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息] 第三方只要法律论点足够 完全可以推翻案件","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2dd77afc710e555d904b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q3fc80150bf7daf38e6df","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":348,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:24:32.336Z","text":"但这就是历史上的新判例了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3fc80150bf7daf38e6df","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qa7c372ebdca69bbfb8c0","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":349,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:24:32.570Z","text":"以什么身份要求撤案？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q37a4f3566fdbe793181b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa7c372ebdca69bbfb8c0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q37a4f3566fdbe793181b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q02af051bbc7a86b08c7b","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":350,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:24:40.727Z","text":"cvra","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa7c372ebdca69bbfb8c0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q02af051bbc7a86b08c7b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa7c372ebdca69bbfb8c0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qdc1516f7057abfe2d7ff","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":351,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:24:52.139Z","text":"就连853也可以要求撤案","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdc1516f7057abfe2d7ff","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q9c776692059f2d1227d1","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":352,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:25:03.902Z","text":"什么形式？还是强制令动议？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q02af051bbc7a86b08c7b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9c776692059f2d1227d1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q02af051bbc7a86b08c7b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q11b0f3b1eea276c76635","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":353,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:25:14.660Z","text":"动议","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9c776692059f2d1227d1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q11b0f3b1eea276c76635","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9c776692059f2d1227d1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qeb7f5ece2216a48585b1","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":354,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:25:25.288Z","text":"但是你这个动议的前提必须有一个活着的强制令","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeb7f5ece2216a48585b1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q932bc25f2b5c88f3b63e","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":355,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:25:47.013Z","text":"也就是强制令被驳回的时候就是第三方被闭嘴的时候","edited":false,"reply_to":"q11b0f3b1eea276c76635","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q932bc25f2b5c88f3b63e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q11b0f3b1eea276c76635","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q78568c36616a1d3e651a","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":356,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:25:56.125Z","text":"对的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q932bc25f2b5c88f3b63e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q78568c36616a1d3e651a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q932bc25f2b5c88f3b63e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qc32d8fe214504abfbc0a","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":357,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:26:05.882Z","text":"但是二巡给了大家三次机会","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc32d8fe214504abfbc0a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q8916269a1f30d9b70355","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":358,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:26:14.630Z","text":"现在别人再也没机会上强制令了吧？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q78568c36616a1d3e651a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8916269a1f30d9b70355","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q78568c36616a1d3e651a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qb90dcc55d1bf48432c3a","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":359,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:26:19.238Z","text":"够慷慨了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb90dcc55d1bf48432c3a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q1b8e0182d945144ef4b7","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":360,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:26:31.861Z","text":"只要有新程序问题 照样上","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8916269a1f30d9b70355","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1b8e0182d945144ef4b7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8916269a1f30d9b70355","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q273589514f2862b18689","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":361,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:27:16.595Z","text":"什么意思？还是老套路，先南区再二巡吗","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1b8e0182d945144ef4b7","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q273589514f2862b18689","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1b8e0182d945144ef4b7","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q9e0ce80a9c920c8d30e3","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":362,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:27:28.735Z","text":"这个我还真没研究过了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q273589514f2862b18689","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9e0ce80a9c920c8d30e3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q273589514f2862b18689","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q94ab4e3c2961d68b7286","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":363,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:28:03.912Z","text":"如果没有新人进来，那就全压在这几个强制令上了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9e0ce80a9c920c8d30e3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q94ab4e3c2961d68b7286","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9e0ce80a9c920c8d30e3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q466e8a5c75a510c86a1f","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":364,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:29:05.117Z","text":"如果上诉律师不采用咱们二巡的证据，我们还有什么办法干预上诉吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q466e8a5c75a510c86a1f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q46f153d5303e7d600efd","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":365,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:30:09.268Z","text":"有啊","edited":false,"reply_to":"q466e8a5c75a510c86a1f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q46f153d5303e7d600efd","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q466e8a5c75a510c86a1f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q60444e71d0dec78ed54a","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":366,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:30:30.207Z","text":"你都要求作废量刑 已经突破二巡认知了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q466e8a5c75a510c86a1f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q60444e71d0dec78ed54a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q466e8a5c75a510c86a1f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q40b1306ecab1187b71fc","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":367,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:30:49.903Z","text":"接下去 你如果能从法律上论述 不需要律师 直接按你说的要求撤案","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q40b1306ecab1187b71fc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qb669cf54f16dd20104a2","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":368,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:30:58.447Z","text":"这个东西上去 上诉律师不可能装瞎","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb669cf54f16dd20104a2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qf3320603dc0e6c09122b","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":369,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:31:04.325Z","text":"我们上六七分 会如何？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf3320603dc0e6c09122b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q10c5e20692a6353da996","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":370,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:33:19.820Z","text":"这个只能抢在强制令驳回前说","edited":false,"reply_to":"q40b1306ecab1187b71fc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q10c5e20692a6353da996","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q40b1306ecab1187b71fc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q7853dee66de66819eef3","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":371,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:33:30.971Z","text":"不用","edited":false,"reply_to":"q10c5e20692a6353da996","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7853dee66de66819eef3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q10c5e20692a6353da996","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q3987e0891e956e8cb0f6","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":372,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:33:41.094Z","text":"你第二次机会都没被驳回","edited":false,"reply_to":"q10c5e20692a6353da996","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3987e0891e956e8cb0f6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q10c5e20692a6353da996","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q90257c0b3e80a1969fc4","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":373,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:33:45.147Z","text":"你不用急","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q90257c0b3e80a1969fc4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qf2672881646980c064d2","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":374,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:33:47.257Z","text":"螺丝和tony的强制令已经被驳回了？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q60444e71d0dec78ed54a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf2672881646980c064d2","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q60444e71d0dec78ed54a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qe59f6a7f224c32e2ea7b","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":375,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:33:54.651Z","text":"可以先让他驳回第二次","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe59f6a7f224c32e2ea7b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qb49984a37cd116f25219","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":376,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:33:57.232Z","text":"你还有最后一次","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb49984a37cd116f25219","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qbdf9254b9a6efb95ff29","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":377,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:34:09.872Z","text":"是的 tony 螺丝哥 瑞恩 都只剩最后一次","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf2672881646980c064d2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbdf9254b9a6efb95ff29","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf2672881646980c064d2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q8c72c15102677a3266e0","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":378,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:34:27.156Z","text":"所以这一次理论上 这三份都应该打推翻案件","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8c72c15102677a3266e0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q41ffa085d7990644a625","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":379,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:35:04.918Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]  螺丝哥天天说 推翻案件 这次真的要由你推翻😆","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q41ffa085d7990644a625","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qd6987f5e942e2244d231","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":380,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:35:32.327Z","text":"我再申明一次 没有任何法律规定第三方不能推翻案件","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd6987f5e942e2244d231","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q7777cb5eedadadf932fb","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":381,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-22T18:35:52.105Z","text":"现在已经量刑了，动议连上传都没上传，更别提审查动议了，那是不是已经可以发第三次强制令了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7777cb5eedadadf932fb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q0b4cb2901fc760707698","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":382,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:36:16.805Z","text":"你提醒我了 说不定真的可以","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7777cb5eedadadf932fb","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0b4cb2901fc760707698","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7777cb5eedadadf932fb","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q1e0ad252e8ba1a3c4de6","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":383,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-22T18:38:47.407Z","text":"在同一份命令中，法院还作出了另外两项裁决。首先，法院批准了政府一项未遭反对的动议，禁止辩方“暗示美国证券交易委员会（SEC）或政府应对受害者的经济损失负责，或暗示 GTV 与喜马拉雅交易所（Himalaya Exchange）的失败归咎于 SEC 或政府；因为此类论点存在严重风险，可能混淆争议焦点并误导陪审团”。（案卷号 319，第 18 页。）其次，法院批准了政府的动议，即“禁止被告辩称检方团队‘与中共存在不当关联或怀有任何恶意’”。（案卷号 319，第 13 页。）尽管共同被告王雪（Yvette Wang）未对该动议提出异议，但法院指出，尚不清楚郭是否也作出了同样的“让步”。（同上。）尽管如此，法院仍批准了该动议，理由是“郭和王均未提出恶意起诉或选择性起诉的抗辩”，且无论如何，此类抗辩必须“向法院——而非陪审团——提出，因为它涉及的问题独立于被告是否有罪这一核心问题”。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1e0ad252e8ba1a3c4de6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q6f2b8c10d00c5711a20e","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":384,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:49:48.881Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]  检方一定是被瑞恩打的像个智障 所以才反击说一句被骗的人是智商","edited":true,"reply_to":"q4fa082a4c344b7041f2b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6f2b8c10d00c5711a20e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4fa082a4c344b7041f2b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q0ca5e9cc72cd7f3ba92b","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":385,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T18:50:10.924Z","text":"否则哪个检方会这么说","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ca5e9cc72cd7f3ba92b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qcb96dc54aab3ee819db5","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":386,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-22T19:00:13.432Z","text":"不是，这是385他们在打证人证言的时候说的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcb96dc54aab3ee819db5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qe883a6b9d96967f1d034","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":387,"speaker":"nin***","date":"2026-07-22T19:50:52.479Z","text":"如果第三方自诉人（个人）直接以个人名义向第二巡回上诉法院（Second Circuit）提交动议，法庭直接全盘采纳并据此驳回一审判决的概率极低，甚至该动议在程序上很可能会被书记官直接退回（Rejected）。\n在联邦上诉程序中，上诉法庭有着极其死板且严苛的“主体资格（Standing）”和“代理规则限制”。个人在没有遵循正确法律程序的情况下贸然提交动议，通常会遭遇严重的程序壁垒。\n以下是具体的法律原因以及如何修正该行动、确保其能被二巡法院真正采纳的合法途径：\n\n1. 为什么直接提交个人","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe883a6b9d96967f1d034","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qe103dfba413144970bb4","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":388,"speaker":"nin***","date":"2026-07-22T19:53:02.317Z","text":"为什么直接提交个人动议会被拒绝？\n* 非诉讼主体（Lack of Standing）：联邦刑事上诉案的法定双方只有“美国政府（控方）”和“被告人（辩方）”。第三方个人不论是受害者、同案人还是自诉人，在法律上都不自动属于该刑事案的“当事人”。非当事人直接提交动议要求驳回全案判决，法庭在程序上不予受理。\n* 禁止“非律师自我代理”（Pro Se Limitation）：如果该第三方代表的是某个关联公司、俱乐部（如 G Clubs）或基金会等法人实体，美国联邦法律严格规定，公司实体绝对不能由个人自我代理（Pro Se），必须聘请有执照的律师提交文件。\n\n2. 怎样做二巡法院才会真正“采纳”？\n第三方个人的主张和证据对案件至关重要，但必须将其包装进正确的“法律外壳”中递交。只有以下三种方式会被二巡法院合法采纳并认真审阅：\n\n途径 A：申请作为“法庭之友”提交简报（Motion for Leave to File Amicus Curiae Brief）\n这是个人和受害者干预上诉最正规、最有效的渠道。\n* 操作方法：第三方个人不能直接丢过去一份动议，而是必须聘请律师（或以严格的法庭格式）先提交一份《申请作为法庭之友提交简报的动议》。在动议中写明：“我是本案利益受损的第三方/自诉人，我掌握了一审检方误导陪审团、下游洗钱犯罪至今仍在继续的关键事实，这些信息对二巡法官做出正确裁决至关重要。”\n* 采纳效果：一旦二巡法院的法官合议庭批准（Grant）了该动议，您的这份《法庭之友简报》就会被正式编入案件的核心审理序列。三位主审法官在闭门研读和开庭质询时，必须强制阅读并考虑这份简报。\n\n途径 B：通过一审的附带诉讼（Ancillary Proceeding）上诉轨道汇入二巡\n如果该第三方的核心诉求是“要回被政府没收的属于自己的财产（即挑战没收令 POF）”：\n* 操作方法：该第三方必须在纽约南区一审法院（SDNY）针对 Preliminary Order of Forfeiture（初步没收令）提出第三人产权主张。如果一审法官（Torres 法官）驳回了第三方的产权主张，第三方拥有独立上诉的权利。\n* 采纳效果：此时，第三方的上诉案会与郭文贵的主上诉案在第二巡回法院合并审理（Consolidated Appeals）。这样第三方就拥有了绝对合法的“上诉人主体资格”，二巡法院必须百分之百开庭审理并做出裁决。\n\n途径 C：直接将证据“喂”给被告人的二审法律援助律师\n这是最快速、成本最低且成功率极高的借道组合拳。\n* 操作方法：第三方个人不要自己去跟法院碰壁，而是直接将所有下游犯罪的证据、账单、正在网络上行骗的录屏、以及自诉书，通过安全渠道打包全部提供给郭文贵目前的二审联邦法律援助上诉专家团队。\n* 采纳效果：由于被告人是绝对合法的诉讼主体，他的律师可以将这些第三方提供的核心事实，直接写进主诉状（Opening Brief）中作为“定罪依据严重不实、检方违反 Brady 规则隐瞒下游”的重磅炮弹。借律师之手，将您的声音合法地送上二巡法庭。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe103dfba413144970bb4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qe303309befee6cd54cf1","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":389,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T19:53:33.979Z","text":"你这是错的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe103dfba413144970bb4","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe303309befee6cd54cf1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe103dfba413144970bb4","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q77ec8abed613e7fa33ab","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":390,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T19:54:16.958Z","text":"法律不仅没有规定第三方是lack of standing 还确定了853n cvra等身份的诉讼资格","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q77ec8abed613e7fa33ab","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q4d9f0f78888fd5e4969c","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":391,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T19:54:56.457Z","text":"没有任何法律说刑事案当事人才能要求推翻案件","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4d9f0f78888fd5e4969c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qbd4b55b5204355065778","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":392,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T19:56:56.797Z","text":"没有法律身份的可以上amicus Curiae;","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbd4b55b5204355065778","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q4ad0022d6069e44face9","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":393,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T19:59:15.972Z","text":"听起来你们两个说的是不同的东西。\n1） 是 第三方可以推翻案件\n2） 我查的AI 说 一旦郭律师file an main brief, 那么所有强制令的性质就变了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4d9f0f78888fd5e4969c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4ad0022d6069e44face9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4d9f0f78888fd5e4969c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qbfbc8116ca05e0d73e1e","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":394,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T20:03:32.573Z","text":"变成啥了？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4ad0022d6069e44face9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbfbc8116ca05e0d73e1e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4ad0022d6069e44face9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q8df52fbae061ad5250b6","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":395,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T20:06:20.361Z","text":"When a defendant files their main opening brief in a direct appeal after sentencing, the role and procedural options for a third party (including someone who previously filed an extraordinary writ like a petition for mandamus) change significantly.\n\nHere is what that third party should understand about their position and what steps they can take:\n\n1. Understand Your Procedural Status\n\nYou Are Not a Party to the Appeal: In a criminal direct appeal (e.g., United States v. Defendant), the only parties are the Defendant (Appellant) and the United States Government (Appellee). A third-party investor or victim is not a named party and cannot simply file a standard brief on the main docket.\n\nMandamus vs. Direct Appeal Are Separate: The denial of your mandamus petition concluded that separate, extraordinary proceeding. You cannot \"revive\" or attach your denied mandamus petition to the defendant's new direct appeal automatically.\n\n2. Available Steps for a Third-Party Pro Se","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8df52fbae061ad5250b6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q250dcf84d62bd87710d6","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":396,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-22T20:06:45.336Z","text":"Not a party for the defendant’s appeal","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbfbc8116ca05e0d73e1e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q250dcf84d62bd87710d6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbfbc8116ca05e0d73e1e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q5ff15a56b76eef99312f","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":397,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T20:06:53.723Z","text":"对的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q250dcf84d62bd87710d6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5ff15a56b76eef99312f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q250dcf84d62bd87710d6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q92ab66a8a223858ce480","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":398,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T20:07:00.851Z","text":"强制令和被告是独立的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q250dcf84d62bd87710d6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q92ab66a8a223858ce480","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q250dcf84d62bd87710d6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"q90b4c151edd8e8731939","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":399,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T20:07:20.145Z","text":"因为是独立的 所以第三方才能单独推翻案件","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q90b4c151edd8e8731939","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"},{"id":"qbce31257102b8eade50e","batch_id":"batch-000138","seq":400,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-22T20:07:34.068Z","text":"如果和被告一起 那第三方自然没有standing","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbce31257102b8eade50e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000138"}],"prev_batch_id":"batch-000137","next_batch_id":"batch-000139"}