{"id":"batch-000139","number":139,"revision":1,"date_start":"2026-07-24T16:45:20.155Z","date_end":"2026-07-27T00:55:32.530Z","total_messages":1000,"summary_en":"Community discussion, batch 139 (Jul 24, 2026 – Jul 27, 2026), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Batch 139 (July 24, 2026 to July 27, 2026) shows community dispute over U.S. forfeiture reach, Tony/Sarah materials, disclosure obligations, and who qualifies as third-party claimants or amici. They contest whether sovereignty framing blocks enforcement, whether Guo’s boss role proves ownership, and whether IAC or vacate/emergency-stay paths can materially change appellate posture. Repeated references center on 21 U.S.C. § 853(n)(6)(A)(B), 853(i), and remission implications. No extra docket or ECF identifiers appear in the supplied messages. Community statements, not court findings.","guide_en":[{"title":"Whether U.S. can pursue forfeiture amid sovereignty disputes and the scope of \"political question\" abstention","description":"Participants contend that sovereignty arguments either support U.S. enforcement authority or, if treated as a political question, should limit review, with disagreement over whether investor-status can narrow application; community descriptions remain argumentative rather than settled legal outcomes. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q4e9529a109310c4b2fa8","qe43e12d4848cae7f2848","q7de011de8a19ed1f0438"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q4e9529a109310c4b2fa8","summary_en":"him*** argues the U.S. can seize funds regardless of Chinese sovereignty claims and says China is not the one pursuing recovery there. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qe43e12d4848cae7f2848","summary_en":"him*** questions whether U.S. victim-rights protections apply to investors who are mostly from mainland China. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q7de011de8a19ed1f0438","summary_en":"kir*** claims that if the matter is political, Torres should not review it, framing it as a non-justiciable issue. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Tony and Sarah materials: authenticity, evidentiary weight, and sealed status","description":"Participants claim Tony and Sarah records are central to evidentiary battles, with some treating them as potentially decisive if true and others denying certainty because they remain sealed or unverified. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q8feba8920f4e1acfbb25","q3ab473f2c74044540d13","q7a4207d1f8a2162db381"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q8feba8920f4e1acfbb25","summary_en":"him*** says Tony’s documents, if genuine, cannot be easily undermined. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q3ab473f2c74044540d13","summary_en":"him*** says the Tony files are sealed, so he says no one can confirm their truth status yet. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q7a4207d1f8a2162db381","summary_en":"him*** insists that if the materials are authentic, their significance is independent of prior personal anecdotes about another user. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Prosecutorial money-trail and ledger transparency: where deposits went and recoverability scope","description":"Participants dispute whether prosecutors have compelled enough production to map money flows, claiming missing farm-owner testimony and ledgers leaves forfeiture tracing contested and ownership arguments weakened. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q828e9553c28f99ba7c90","q952c6e9aaf0e18c962d1","qf7169b871b9a8ccee1a8"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q828e9553c28f99ba7c90","summary_en":"hel*** contends the prosecution should subpoena former farm owners and require investor account books to substantiate fund tracing. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q952c6e9aaf0e18c962d1","summary_en":"ntp*** alleges currency-loan handling in Cosmos while also dismissing the leak network as fraudulent, and frames it as a disputed credibility challenge. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qf7169b871b9a8ccee1a8","summary_en":"spr*** argues that for the claim to hold, Cosmos would have had to send out funds first, then become a farm owner. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Third-party standing and amici limits: who can file key motions and drive procedure","description":"Participants contend that investor status and CVRA-related posture do not automatically grant amicus or litigation authority, and they dispute where third-party participation can legitimately influence motions and strategy. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q923c31604d4067a7bfd3","q14e6dc43a92211f1c9e5","qcf61880baf3b01628491"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q923c31604d4067a7bfd3","summary_en":"kir*** argues a participant cannot simply act as defendant counsel and therefore lacks standing to drive the case as if representing defense interests. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q14e6dc43a92211f1c9e5","summary_en":"kir*** claims an investor in a 853/ CVRA context cannot claim amicus status. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qcf61880baf3b01628491","summary_en":"kir*** reiterates that investor status alone does not qualify someone as a friend of the court. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"IAC and procedural defects: can ineffectiveness override evidence and merits","description":"Participants dispute whether counsel conduct reaches constitutional-level ineffective-assistance arguments, with some asserting it was a core structural failure and others treating those claims as dependent on how third-party challenges evolve. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q214510cf28b4c0c83fd4","q97b5f8a5ec2805a3bc3a","qca1bdf508cc33920fa2c"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q214510cf28b4c0c83fd4","summary_en":"kir*** labels reliance on the Alliance Farm as witness evidence by defense counsel as the strongest example of ineffective assistance. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q97b5f8a5ec2805a3bc3a","summary_en":"kir*** says despite broad arguments hurting Guo, Sarah’s filing is framed as best available IAC proof if no third party fully overturns the case. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qca1bdf508cc33920fa2c","summary_en":"kir*** says a third party has already, in this view, collapsed the case, while defense counsel still appears aligned with the alliance side. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Forfeiture scope and property boundaries: personal property versus crime proceeds and inferred control","description":"Participants contend that merely calling someone a boss does not resolve forfeiture ownership, arguing personal-property admissions and control are treated differently and cannot be presumed equivalent. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q99ec6bdc35aa2d784738","q65f5a47979711519353d","q1f5fe7591cc2f037a50c"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q99ec6bdc35aa2d784738","summary_en":"reb*** argues that an admission by Guo that assets were personal would function almost like a plea admission. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q65f5a47979711519353d","summary_en":"him*** counters that Guo being the boss does not automatically make the funds his property. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q1f5fe7591cc2f037a50c","summary_en":"reb*** says proving Guo was a boss is necessary but not sufficient to prove ownership for forfeiture purposes. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"21 U.S.C. § 853(n), 853(i), and remission sequencing: property claims and procedural viability","description":"Participants contend that ordinary investor or victim loss claims are weak under 853(n)(6) without identifiable legal rights in specific assets, while a few argue narrow pathways like tracing, trust, or secured interests could still support relief. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q715addb6214364eafe90","q883d464bb37a45ea862e","q28fbb5aa0e99dc38b2cd"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q715addb6214364eafe90","summary_en":"him*** explains that under 21 U.S.C. § 853(n), investors must show a legal interest in specific seized property, not just payment loss or victim status, and meet burdened evidence standards. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q883d464bb37a45ea862e","summary_en":"him*** applies the same framework to H Coin/H Dollar and G|CLUBS purchasers, arguing most have only general restitution-type claims unless specific property rights are proven, with trust or tracing arguments narrowly limited. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q28fbb5aa0e99dc38b2cd","summary_en":"joh*** contends the forfeiture process appears stalled, suggesting urgency in the current procedural moment. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Second-appeal mechanics: what vacate and emergency stay might change in post-judgment review","description":"Participants dispute the practical effect of emergency-stay and vacate orders, with some claiming uncertainty and others framing the pending posture as unusually broad and unstable. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qa938cbb543b620a8fd4b","q849414445c010517a6ae","q11beac99adf3c75e2849"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qa938cbb543b620a8fd4b","summary_en":"kir*** says he still does not understand what the pending emergency-stay and vacate posture means in practical appellate terms. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q849414445c010517a6ae","summary_en":"kir*** claims the current scale and level of collapse is historically unprecedented. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q11beac99adf3c75e2849","summary_en":"kir*** repeatedly mentions a broad \"vacate all\" approach, suggesting multiple orders are being contemplated. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"External power politics and U.S.-China framing in case interpretation","description":"Participants contend that geopolitical actors and political timing are being used to explain procedural shifts, while others dispute the causal strength of these narratives versus case facts. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qfac8ef30ef3ddf3a0d21","q1090d5ce578beec64749","qa296c4ac10f3b75e018a"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qfac8ef30ef3ddf3a0d21","summary_en":"reb*** claims CCP-linked pressure is inferred from early arrests followed by non-arrest patterns, portraying sustained global monitoring of the case. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q1090d5ce578beec64749","summary_en":"hel*** recounts an origin story where a repaid mainland debt preceded litigation, says U.S. courts first declined jurisdiction on venue/sovereignty grounds and later accepted it. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qa296c4ac10f3b75e018a","summary_en":"joh*** adds that Pompeo’s CIA background and institutional networks are cited as contextual factors in the political interpretation of the matter. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Alliance and mastermind attribution: Toros/inner-circle narratives and operator theories","description":"Participants argue over insider-versus-theater explanations, with claims that certain groups are scammers or resigned participants and that narrative control remains contested between conspiratorial and skeptical camps. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qbab258659bf27ef88772","q74a7ee48ec3b1bb8b976","q56e17271f73eba117d5d"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qbab258659bf27ef88772","summary_en":"nin*** broadly dismisses multiple alliance figures as scammers, calling the Guo case a watershed and attacking those defenses. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q74a7ee48ec3b1bb8b976","summary_en":"kir*** remarks that Anxiaodong has reportedly accepted the situation, using that acceptance to frame momentum claims. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q56e17271f73eba117d5d","summary_en":"kir*** says he believes script-style plotting is real and criticizes ongoing public ridicule in the group as proof of it. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Social identity conflict and discourse warfare: labeling, neutrality claims, and emotional derailment","description":"Participants contend the thread features identity labeling and emotional attacks that can displace evidence-based argument, even where some members still claim a non-bullying or neutral posture. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q25c981af7ad722f4774c","q9359021ac248f3bcc9be","q99ac8736e8923d710cbd"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q25c981af7ad722f4774c","summary_en":"cin*** says they are not neutral toward himam but says they are detached from Guo personally, seeing him as a fraud without wanting to spend effort exposing all allegations. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q9359021ac248f3bcc9be","summary_en":"cin*** clarifies their neutrality as simply not bullying or attacking other participants. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q99ac8736e8923d710cbd","summary_en":"may*** says one participant keeps analyzing aggressively while nobody appears to take responsibility for leading the defense narrative. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Timeline projections: Torez-related moments and Sept. 24 as appeal inflection points","description":"Participants contend that dates such as 9/24 and related events are being used as predictive markers for a second-appeal path, with uncertainty about whether this is analytical insight or speculation. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qf01dda7f6b7e035ed451","qb9785c3a3715ff9f3b8b","qf9e28665ad820b947f93"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qf01dda7f6b7e035ed451","summary_en":"kir*** reports a participant was 'called back' around timeline discussion, suggesting a perceived staged return to the thread. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qb9785c3a3715ff9f3b8b","summary_en":"wan*** predicts a U.S.-China rupture may become evident around Sept. 24, linked to midterm and economic stress points. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qf9e28665ad820b947f93","summary_en":"ntp*** asks a clarifying challenge about what \"9/24\" is referring to, indicating unresolved shared understanding of the timing thesis. Community statements, not court findings."}]}],"summary":"讨论基本呈现程序法理与政治叙事双轨并行。主要争点在于：美国在主权纠纷下是否可直接追缴、Tony与Sarah相关材料是否可信及是否可采、检方资金流和账本披露是否充分。围绕第三方自诉资格、法庭之友角色边界、律师是否可代替上诉主张形成对立；同时IAC是否足以覆盖程序失误也被反复攻击。没收范围是高强度分裂点，争议焦点是“个人财产”与“犯罪收益”如何区分、以及Boss控制是否可直接推定所有权，并与853(n)、853(i)/remission、破产优先顺序交织。外部势力、中美关系、托雷斯节点等因素被大量并入二巡预判。上诉技术问题如vacate、emergency stay、翻案标准尚无共识，群内情绪化与身份标签化明显上升，导致讨论在证据链与叙事猜测间持续拉扯。","guide":[{"title":"美国是否可在主权争议下直接追缴：\"政治问题不审查\"的适用边界","message_ids":["q4e9529a109310c4b2fa8","qe43e12d4848cae7f2848","q7de011de8a19ed1f0438"]},{"title":"Tony与Sarah材料真伪、效力与封存状态：是否可用于定罪或削弱","message_ids":["q8feba8920f4e1acfbb25","q3ab473f2c74044540d13","q7a4207d1f8a2162db381"]},{"title":"检方资金流披露与账本透明度：入账去向和再追索范围被集中质疑","message_ids":["q828e9553c28f99ba7c90","q952c6e9aaf0e18c962d1","qf7169b871b9a8ccee1a8"]},{"title":"第三方自诉与法庭之友资格：谁能提交关键动议、谁能推动程序","message_ids":["q923c31604d4067a7bfd3","q14e6dc43a92211f1c9e5","qcf61880baf3b01628491"]},{"title":"无效辩护(IAC)与程序瑕疵：能否压倒证据与实体认定","message_ids":["q214510cf28b4c0c83fd4","q97b5f8a5ec2805a3bc3a","qca1bdf508cc33920fa2c"]},{"title":"没收范围与财产权边界：个人财产、犯罪收益、Boss控制是否等同","message_ids":["q99ec6bdc35aa2d784738","q65f5a47979711519353d","q1f5fe7591cc2f037a50c"]},{"title":"853(n)、853(i)与Remission时序：财产权主张、退赔与程序可行性的争论","message_ids":["q715addb6214364eafe90","q883d464bb37a45ea862e","q28fbb5aa0e99dc38b2cd"]},{"title":"二审技术路线：vacate、emergency stay是否改变判决后审理路径","message_ids":["qa938cbb543b620a8fd4b","q849414445c010517a6ae","q11beac99adf3c75e2849"]},{"title":"外部势力与中美政治叙事：中共、CIA及地缘时点被并入案情解读","message_ids":["qfac8ef30ef3ddf3a0d21","q1090d5ce578beec64749","qa296c4ac10f3b75e018a"]},{"title":"联盟与幕后责任归因：托洛斯/圈层与关键人物的操盘说法并存","message_ids":["qbab258659bf27ef88772","q74a7ee48ec3b1bb8b976","q56e17271f73eba117d5d"]},{"title":"社会关系与舆论博弈：身份标签与情绪化攻击削弱证据链讨论","message_ids":["q25c981af7ad722f4774c","q9359021ac248f3bcc9be","q99ac8736e8923d710cbd"]},{"title":"时间与节点推演：托雷斯事件、9/24与后续时点被当作二巡走向指标","message_ids":["qf01dda7f6b7e035ed451","qb9785c3a3715ff9f3b8b","qf9e28665ad820b947f93"]}],"closed":true,"is_finalized":true,"updated_at":"2026-09-06T19:03:28.394Z","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_batch","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139/pages/3","base_batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000139?page=3","page":3,"page_size":200,"total_pages":5,"has_more":true,"next_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000139?page=4","prev_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000139?page=2","messages":[{"id":"q271066802db2b91d0aa7","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":401,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:31:26.076Z","text":"一个八千多战友","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q271066802db2b91d0aa7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q209c4a2ad0724c8bcfbb","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":402,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:31:41.178Z","text":"才十八个人操 郭文贵 太少了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q209c4a2ad0724c8bcfbb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf30ab05cdea5384ad590","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":403,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T18:32:02.764Z","text":"8千*5%","edited":false,"reply_to":"q271066802db2b91d0aa7","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf30ab05cdea5384ad590","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q271066802db2b91d0aa7","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q9b0cbf97f148ae9990f7","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":404,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T18:32:16.705Z","text":"400","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9b0cbf97f148ae9990f7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q3ca07cef48ae1641d219","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":405,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T18:32:40.809Z","text":"自诉的差不多有这么多","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ca07cef48ae1641d219","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q598a0f4dc7307db76625","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":406,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:32:54.908Z","text":"自诉有吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q598a0f4dc7307db76625","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qb185703e914c0b43286d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":407,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:33:18.198Z","text":"剩下的人怎么也不自诉 也不做受害者","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb185703e914c0b43286d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2d9a4428322753bdfdda","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":408,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:33:33.692Z","text":"是不是都 让郭文贵骗死了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2d9a4428322753bdfdda","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5cf4c9fa8249608ca93a","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":409,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T18:33:35.251Z","text":"剩下的都是演员","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5cf4c9fa8249608ca93a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q15ef14d0a1289a04a16c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":410,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-07-25T18:33:57.944Z","text":"为什么是18个，不是16+1个(郭本人)吗? 后来的那个只出现在南区法庭","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2dffaab71089c31b9255","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q15ef14d0a1289a04a16c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2dffaab71089c31b9255","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q110cd074f4f505fd95bf","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":411,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:34:32.966Z","text":"😂 😂 郭文贵在昭明哪里没有 招到 一百个演员吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q110cd074f4f505fd95bf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qc13fb5be6e4c53b743d6","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":412,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T18:34:41.686Z","text":"不是17+1？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc13fb5be6e4c53b743d6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qfc00929dc2daa6c54e58","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":413,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:34:52.943Z","text":"十八个人都是谁啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfc00929dc2daa6c54e58","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qecc6d8165985798e3df9","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":414,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:36:09.148Z","text":"郭文贵 到底有没有钱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qecc6d8165985798e3df9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q74653583d50a0e790d60","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":415,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T18:36:27.870Z","text":"穷光蛋 没钱","edited":false,"reply_to":"qecc6d8165985798e3df9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q74653583d50a0e790d60","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qecc6d8165985798e3df9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q54ec16fa1a41b69a2b7d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":416,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:36:37.998Z","text":"那么有钱 干嘛诈骗这么一点钱😂😂","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q54ec16fa1a41b69a2b7d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd544ae9913bf0e234b34","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":417,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:36:48.490Z","text":"才十几亿而已","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd544ae9913bf0e234b34","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q92a91ef602d37d914088","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":418,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T18:37:10.821Z","text":"阿哲的理论是对的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q92a91ef602d37d914088","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7db90405037772488306","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":419,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T18:37:19.867Z","text":"郭文贵就是要把自己弄进去","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7db90405037772488306","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7b287941d8b072ba3df4","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":420,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:37:34.763Z","text":"怎么可能穷","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7b287941d8b072ba3df4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q9f5b43cdf0284782329f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":421,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:37:38.931Z","text":"又是游艇","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9f5b43cdf0284782329f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa831d71de69ab02c5682","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":422,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:37:55.870Z","text":"又是牛排 羊蹄筋","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa831d71de69ab02c5682","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qe77cd08f6e65ddc02e3a","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":423,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:38:08.824Z","text":"私人飞机","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe77cd08f6e65ddc02e3a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q4499fe59a125770384cc","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":424,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:38:40.475Z","text":"家族基金 好像有一万亿","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4499fe59a125770384cc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q66ca695fdffa2c1d5c79","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":425,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:39:10.785Z","text":"三十年 潜伏ccp。不会就是一个谎言吧","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q66ca695fdffa2c1d5c79","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q502e76fa60b8055a7e5e","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":426,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:40:03.003Z","text":"七哥 有的是钱。看他绝地反击","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q502e76fa60b8055a7e5e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q52d7e8dc7c48fd585062","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":427,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:40:24.926Z","text":"七哥还没有出手呢","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q52d7e8dc7c48fd585062","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qbcdd8406903d8eaac32a","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":428,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:40:53.294Z","text":"鱼儿已经上钩了。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbcdd8406903d8eaac32a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q87e31380e109a2ef0e29","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":429,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:46:06.617Z","text":"说到底 郭文贵就是发太多誓了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q87e31380e109a2ef0e29","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5d32ea22fc05ef763fc7","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":430,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T18:46:39.506Z","text":"赶紧rico吧","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5d32ea22fc05ef763fc7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7c43db6ed0c51dccabfc","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":431,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T19:19:47.965Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]  我明白了 这个安小东是假信仰 他以为装作传统华人基督徒的样子会掩人耳目 没想到直接撞到我的雷区 我他妈最烦的就是他装的这种华人假基督徒 [删节：隐私信息]","edited":true,"reply_to":"qb446e1448ca56a9ba9cf","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7c43db6ed0c51dccabfc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1e39fe9921e45867027c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":432,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-25T19:31:14.383Z","text":"Z同学，你和[删节：隐私信息]同学都是砸锅的，郭都判了35年了，你们还不休息一下，郭到底怎么你们了","edited":true,"reply_to":"q6a4676dc3a2ff6606c5e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1e39fe9921e45867027c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6a4676dc3a2ff6606c5e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd99e5cfdc89d61371fe0","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":433,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-25T19:33:34.323Z","text":"郭就算是你们的杀父仇人，也不至于这么让你们天天念叨吧","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd99e5cfdc89d61371fe0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qc946803a127db12a1ec6","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":434,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T19:35:51.848Z","text":"判三十年 是法庭，我们想判郭文贵永久","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc946803a127db12a1ec6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q43f2fa61be619f5a020a","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":435,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-25T19:35:52.792Z","text":"Z同学刚来这群就说，郭已经盖棺定论了，我靠，到现在还在这群砸啊砸","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q43f2fa61be619f5a020a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5aaeb9762658ead0e479","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":436,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-25T19:36:29.002Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]要归隐山林多少次了，怎么现在还在说郭文贵啊🤪","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5aaeb9762658ead0e479","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q04713cb6e70ac425513f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":437,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-25T19:36:58.219Z","text":"这群砸锅的，让人无法理解","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q04713cb6e70ac425513f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa931ff7a4a14bb49533a","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":438,"speaker":"mia***","date":"2026-07-25T19:37:08.137Z","text":"这货的底色是共产党的辩证法，什么都有好有坏取决于自己定义","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb446e1448ca56a9ba9cf","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa931ff7a4a14bb49533a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q732ca2219e3d5ee59427","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":439,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T19:37:11.477Z","text":"是不是怕郭文贵 突然原地复活","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q732ca2219e3d5ee59427","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa05e6229f6a3eadabf4d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":440,"speaker":"mon***","date":"2026-07-25T19:37:36.025Z","text":"就算复活 很多事情也说不清楚啊啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa05e6229f6a3eadabf4d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q09024af61eb48a6c1bf4","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":441,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-25T19:41:29.173Z","text":"估计他们是因恨生爱","edited":false,"reply_to":"q732ca2219e3d5ee59427","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q09024af61eb48a6c1bf4","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q732ca2219e3d5ee59427","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qc0f7c05f27bfb9b22ca6","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":442,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-25T19:41:41.868Z","text":"当然他们是不会承认的🤪","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc0f7c05f27bfb9b22ca6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6669a0baaa7605d7ef5e","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":443,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-07-25T19:46:18.995Z","text":"露脸的人当中最阴的是小羊；不露脸的人当中最阴最毒的非你莫属。\n你在贼喊捉贼。\n你口上说中立、过路人，其实你就是带任务来砸郭的。表面上看郭目前被判刑、占弱势，但是你的主子知道这事还没完，还需要你来这里带风向。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q04713cb6e70ac425513f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6669a0baaa7605d7ef5e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q04713cb6e70ac425513f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qfdf3fccd18a9161a0e40","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":444,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T19:56:53.332Z","text":"https://x.com/ruienxiaoge3/status/2081106321236267226?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfdf3fccd18a9161a0e40","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qc18a443f2c78e8ac0c80","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":445,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-07-25T19:57:29.211Z","text":"写自诉的时候，并不是完全交给机器人的。每个字、每句话、每个标题、大小写、字体大小都要仔细斟酌、格式必须前后一致。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc18a443f2c78e8ac0c80","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q154fe2ceeefd3b935701","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":446,"speaker":"may***","date":"2026-07-25T19:58:56.491Z","text":"赢了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q154fe2ceeefd3b935701","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q4baa7bec7a779924c157","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":447,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-07-25T19:59:16.196Z","text":"完成给南区的自诉，相当于法学本科的毕业论文；\n完成给二巡的自诉，相当于法学硕士的毕业论文；\n以后再上高法，就是博士学位的毕业论文了。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4baa7bec7a779924c157","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6fa384a9c03397205545","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":448,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T19:59:30.400Z","text":"浙大学霸","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4baa7bec7a779924c157","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6fa384a9c03397205545","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4baa7bec7a779924c157","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7ca17327ba1564ff8a39","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":449,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T20:08:34.473Z","text":"https://x.com/ruienxiaoge3/status/2081109324085227907?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7ca17327ba1564ff8a39","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qbd276e22efc4d68fce94","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":450,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T21:04:55.894Z","text":"你这真是大大花费了精力心思时间","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc18a443f2c78e8ac0c80","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbd276e22efc4d68fce94","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc18a443f2c78e8ac0c80","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q583b8f82ba51e34a121f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":451,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T21:14:25.095Z","text":"论对联盟农场的恨 没人能比sarah","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbd276e22efc4d68fce94","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q583b8f82ba51e34a121f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbd276e22efc4d68fce94","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q3abe65c9e85eec99453c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":452,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-07-25T21:26:50.901Z","text":"从6/29判刑到7/20发送，足足三个星期，每天只睡三四个小时，还有两次只睡了两个小时。30页纸的附件，要围绕着一个中心主题，即“联盟的利益跟我是完全相反的”，也想合情合理地带点私货。\n最后的终稿基本上满意。\n碰到 [删节：成员身份] 这种阴险毒辣的阴阳人，还喜欢钻空子、挖墙脚………，你说咋办呢？","edited":true,"reply_to":"qbd276e22efc4d68fce94","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3abe65c9e85eec99453c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbd276e22efc4d68fce94","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf7a2578e0a16216d1cab","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":453,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T21:35:45.650Z","text":"被告当时声明其“未在任何诉状或文件中主张该[针对性行动]证据支持胁迫或正当理由抗辩”。案卷（Dkt.）319，第15页（引用郭氏备忘录第63页）。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf7a2578e0a16216d1cab","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q99cfa0aa255be6ee433b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":454,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T21:36:34.492Z","text":"被告作证称，其在本案中的某些行为是为了应对威胁[随后描述了这些威胁]。控方对该证词的真实性存有异议；但即使你们认定其证词属实，这本身也不构成对本案任何指控的抗辩理由。这是因为，根据法律规定，‘胁迫’抗辩仅适用于比本案情形更为极端且紧迫的情况，而被告也未主张存在此类情况。”）。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q99cfa0aa255be6ee433b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qfebf84af423b23a7d378","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":455,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T21:36:34.821Z","text":"［用户 spr***］  我觉得南区的docket record就是一堆垃圾 第三方重建了record","edited":true,"reply_to":"qf7a2578e0a16216d1cab","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfebf84af423b23a7d378","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf7a2578e0a16216d1cab","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q25a6acc6b81cc96e5650","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":456,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T21:42:56.854Z","text":"395是陪审团裁决，后面的基本上不怎么需要看了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q25a6acc6b81cc96e5650","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1ed3ea0e848872367d1b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":457,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T21:44:04.710Z","text":"定罪后的文件比定罪前的文件还要多","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1ed3ea0e848872367d1b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q78733e08234c7d3469ed","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":458,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-07-25T21:47:39.072Z","text":"小羊这个小瘪三，联盟搞律师费说了好几遍了。\n谁文笔给力，也可以拿联盟骗律师费在第二巡回法院做一下文章","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q78733e08234c7d3469ed","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q40f3de349bd793720a5d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":459,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T21:50:05.007Z","text":"尽管共同被告王雁平（Yanping Wang）声明无意主张“检察官是中国共产党的代理人”，但“尚不清楚郭某是否也作出了同样的让步”（同上）。当然，辩方律师现已明确表示，无意主张本案的起诉受到中国共产党的任何干预或影响（见庭审记录第5117-5118页）。然而，案卷记录中存在可能导致陪审团在此问题上产生混淆的证据。具体而言，郭某的辩方举证环节始于一位证人的证词；该证人在回答诱导性问题时称，他曾被迫听命于中国共产党的代理人，向美国有关部门针对郭某提出欺诈指控（见庭审记录第5053-58页）。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q40f3de349bd793720a5d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qddd20658e9b22cfa0f8b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":460,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T21:51:05.461Z","text":"这个人好像没有去啊 ？                                                         辩方的最后一位证人将是乔治·希金博瑟姆（George Higginbotham）","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qddd20658e9b22cfa0f8b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qcd3776477bc4f39556e8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":461,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T21:55:07.892Z","text":"不主张起诉受到中国共产党的任何干预或影响，你叫易见虎去作证干嘛","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd3776477bc4f39556e8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q88285bed37874cbe0899","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":462,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T21:55:49.026Z","text":"很好 律师不主张 我们可以主张 对吧","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcd3776477bc4f39556e8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q88285bed37874cbe0899","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd3776477bc4f39556e8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2415775ea8b9eae78640","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":463,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T21:56:56.427Z","text":"你知道为什么不主张吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcd3776477bc4f39556e8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2415775ea8b9eae78640","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd3776477bc4f39556e8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q72a179e4abcc770c1a84","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":464,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T21:57:16.346Z","text":"如果主张，那么这句话后面 所有发生的事情 全都不会有。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcd3776477bc4f39556e8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q72a179e4abcc770c1a84","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd3776477bc4f39556e8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q276588b39eefb9a344e5","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":465,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T21:57:36.461Z","text":"案子直接会把安全部门扯进来","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q276588b39eefb9a344e5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q8521c046ae71dc6605ea","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":466,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T21:58:23.008Z","text":"这谁知道？谁知道郭和辩方律师怎么搞的？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2415775ea8b9eae78640","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8521c046ae71dc6605ea","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2415775ea8b9eae78640","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6507e6c7b1717b8e9e5f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":467,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T21:58:26.207Z","text":"最后交给情报 安全部门 出一个什么东西 比如cipa  把托雷斯管辖权弄掉","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6507e6c7b1717b8e9e5f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q00c09b58332e1d989348","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":468,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T21:58:45.203Z","text":"因为郭律师不想得罪南区 郭律师想表演","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8521c046ae71dc6605ea","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q00c09b58332e1d989348","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8521c046ae71dc6605ea","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q8fa147800ccafd28ca6b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":469,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T21:58:55.340Z","text":"如果主张 那就没得演了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8fa147800ccafd28ca6b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qac6715edae791e93f9fd","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":470,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T21:59:08.964Z","text":"特别是[屏蔽词]丽娜在庭审的演技 就没得展现了","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qac6715edae791e93f9fd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qacc8a2aeb48e1ecac6e5","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":471,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T22:00:16.685Z","text":"农场主还是检方证人呢，检方理应知道农场主把钱装自己口袋吧，这个还不一定能打呢？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q040d94946882c8dea9a1","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qacc8a2aeb48e1ecac6e5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qfbeadae035cbaf586329","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":472,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T22:03:44.102Z","text":"可以的 让郭文贵律师都没得用 二巡更应该创造判例 用我们的文件推翻案件","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2123f9134af7577e1e88","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfbeadae035cbaf586329","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa7e37854b8f3a25d7932","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":473,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T22:12:32.417Z","text":"易见虎作证作了个寂寞","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa7e37854b8f3a25d7932","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2b3044b5f4431ea6f901","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":474,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T22:13:01.310Z","text":"这句话在文件多少？ ［用户 spr***］","edited":true,"reply_to":"qcd3776477bc4f39556e8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2b3044b5f4431ea6f901","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd3776477bc4f39556e8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q736b1214fd0eb69bc04c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":475,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T22:13:15.890Z","text":"辩方证人总共没几人，还废了几个","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q736b1214fd0eb69bc04c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q9dc710a762c739aceda0","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":476,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T22:14:01.972Z","text":"392 检方的陪审团指示草案","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2b3044b5f4431ea6f901","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9dc710a762c739aceda0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2b3044b5f4431ea6f901","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7d47bef521e767e2aa60","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":477,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T22:14:35.583Z","text":"还没看最终的指示草案394","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7d47bef521e767e2aa60","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q8682c97b85ec8d78c77f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":478,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T22:16:14.232Z","text":"难怪后来取消阿刁和火石上去作证了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8682c97b85ec8d78c77f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf83f2b5df12adf9f1569","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":479,"speaker":"mia***","date":"2026-07-25T22:17:03.625Z","text":"法庭不是把他的口证当作没有实质证据的传言吗","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa7e37854b8f3a25d7932","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf83f2b5df12adf9f1569","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa7e37854b8f3a25d7932","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qb9a89b5400569a0bc7cf","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":480,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T22:18:31.663Z","text":"不主张起诉受到中国共产党的任何干预或影响，有实质证据也没有什么用，他亲自上庭了经过交叉质询，怎么能叫传闻？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb9a89b5400569a0bc7cf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q594261a95fd8078f8be0","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":481,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T22:20:00.418Z","text":"控辩都是选择自己有利的来说，没人像你这样一通乱搅","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2123f9134af7577e1e88","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q594261a95fd8078f8be0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa05b36e5b63bfadaa060","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":482,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T22:20:37.896Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]  单文件392就可以翻案了 \n\n当提起“CCP 污染起诉（Foreign Interference with Prosecution）”时，托雷斯法官（Judge Torres）作为美联邦第三条法院（Article III Court）的法官，她真正要履行的是宪法赋予的**“司法独立性看门人（Gatekeeper of Article III Judicial Independence）”**职责。\n联邦法院绝不是行政部门（司法部/SDNY）或外国政府工具的橡皮图章。法官要检查的“司法独立性”，不是去查“法官自己有没有被贿赂”，而是要检查“美联邦法庭的诉讼程序和案卷（Record）是否被外国主权力量操纵，从而侵犯了宪法独立的司法权”。\n如果法官放弃这项核查，就等于把联邦法庭的裁判权拱手让给了未经审视的外力。具体而言，法官必须履行四大核心核查职责：\n一、 检查“证据源头”是否被非法胁迫（Evidence Integrity Check）\n司法独立的核心前提是：呈交给联邦法庭的证据必须是自由、真实、合法获取的，不能成为外国警察国家（Police State）跨境镇压的延伸。\n 具体要查什么：\n1. 检方提交的证人证言（Witness Statements）或受害人指控，是否存在中共特工在国内逼迫、胁迫家属或通过“猎狐行动”强行制造的情况？\n2. 案卷里的刑事举报，究竟是真实的受害者，还是外国情报/执法部门为了打击异见人士而倒推出来的“政治任务”？\n 为什么法官必须查：\n如果允许被外国主权胁迫产生的伪证（Coerced/Tainted Evidence）进入美联邦法庭，法庭就沦为了外国政府跨境执法的“清洗工具（Laundering Mechanism）”，直接摧毁了美国司法程序的独立性与公正性。\n二、 检查“检方起诉动机”是否被外力绑定（Prosecutorial Misconduct / Conduct Shocking the Conscience）\n美国司法部（DOJ）拥有自由裁量权，但自由裁量权不能被外国主权“武器化（Weaponized）”。\n 具体要查什么：\n1. 检方（SDNY）起诉本案的线索、动机或早期推进，是否过度依赖了外国政府提供的“污染材料”？\n2. 检方在明知或应当知道证据源头存在“中共干预/跨国镇压”风险的情况下，是否向法庭隐瞒了这一背景？\n 为什么法官必须查：\n如果检方不加甄别地全盘接收外国政府为了政治目的而精心编制的案卷，法官若不予以审查，就等于让外国政权间接控制了美国检方的公权力。\n三、 检查“陪审团指示”是否侵犯了事实认定权（Jury Fact-Finding Discretion）\n在 Docket 392 中，最致命的环节就是检方要求法官向陪审团下达“本案起诉未受 CCP 影响”的指令。\n 具体要查什么：\n1. 案卷里明明存在 CCP 干扰的物理线索，法官凭什么可以用一道“指示（Instruction）”，直接把这个事实争议“锤死”并替陪审团做出结论？\n2. 这种指示是否强行阻断了陪审团基于真实证据评估证人可信度（Witness Credibility）的宪法权利？\n 为什么法官必须查：\n根据宪法第六修正案，事实认定权属于陪审团。法官未经对 CCP 污染进行独立司法调查，就直接出具背书式指令，不仅放弃了司法独立检查，还用法庭公信力替检方的潜在瑕疵“强行盖章”。\n四、 检查“后置资产没收”是否引发主权管辖权冲突（Judicial Authority over Forfeiture）\n当案件走到资产没收（Forfeiture）和第三方主权申诉（如 Tony 817 事项）时，司法独立性的检查就从程序法直接延伸到了实体产权法。\n 具体要查什么：\n1. 美联邦法院拟没收的资金池，是否已经被外国主权法院做出了冲突性生效判决？\n2. 拟分配没收资金的“申领人（Claimants）”，究竟是真正受损的投资者，还是外国主权安排的傀儡或假受害者？\n 为什么法官必须查：\n如果法官不核查这些资金的合法性与主权冲突（International Comity），直接下达没收令，联邦法院就会在不知情中违反国际法礼让原则，下达自始无效（Void）的管辖权超越指令。\n总结\n托雷斯法官需要检查的“司法独立性”，实质上是一套防止美国法院被外国主权力量“工具化”的防御机制（Gatekeeping Mechanism）：","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa05b36e5b63bfadaa060","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qc8d88d3ebd0be1f01945","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":483,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T22:22:38.999Z","text":"tony之后的主权冲突 把这个问题又指数级别扩大了 [删节：隐私信息]  不仅污染起诉不检查 连主权身份冲突也不检查","edited":true,"reply_to":"qa05b36e5b63bfadaa060","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc8d88d3ebd0be1f01945","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa05b36e5b63bfadaa060","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q8663db073e7f541ab2f8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":484,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T22:23:05.567Z","text":"这就是最典型的滥用裁量权 不检查 就是滥用裁量权","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc8d88d3ebd0be1f01945","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8663db073e7f541ab2f8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc8d88d3ebd0be1f01945","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q8a124dbbcac386413c36","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":485,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T22:23:27.916Z","text":"不仅不检查 还不上传 tony 不研究","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc8d88d3ebd0be1f01945","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8a124dbbcac386413c36","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc8d88d3ebd0be1f01945","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qbdce36904b2a16de3e1a","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":486,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T22:23:42.021Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息] 单这个就可以直接推翻所有","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbdce36904b2a16de3e1a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qdab1de2f6c3471013e0b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":487,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T22:31:28.782Z","text":"辩方取消阿刁和火石作证呢","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbdce36904b2a16de3e1a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdab1de2f6c3471013e0b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbdce36904b2a16de3e1a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q43f92d43396f1b47ac41","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":488,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-25T22:35:30.037Z","text":"那样老郭就上诉不成了，正中灭爆下怀","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2123f9134af7577e1e88","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q43f92d43396f1b47ac41","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q78689ec9e07b20555e60","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":489,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T22:36:14.107Z","text":"辩方上诉是权利 上诉不成 是违宪的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q43f92d43396f1b47ac41","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q78689ec9e07b20555e60","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q43f92d43396f1b47ac41","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2575101e064af0505b9d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":490,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T22:36:27.792Z","text":"如果上诉真不成 那就只能用我们的了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2575101e064af0505b9d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qccb4c936b07d990a28bf","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":491,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T22:36:52.695Z","text":"现在所有害老郭的行为 因为我们第三方上去了 都变成帮老郭","edited":false,"reply_to":"q43f92d43396f1b47ac41","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qccb4c936b07d990a28bf","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q43f92d43396f1b47ac41","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qec144a8751bfd5e0b9f9","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":492,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T22:37:46.921Z","text":"律师无效辩护","edited":false,"reply_to":"qdab1de2f6c3471013e0b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qec144a8751bfd5e0b9f9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdab1de2f6c3471013e0b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q27b11823b6156c17f82c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":493,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T22:38:19.445Z","text":"但说实话 什么阿刁 火石 和tony比起来 就是个屁","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q27b11823b6156c17f82c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6736d22add8c9d928e97","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":494,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-25T22:38:44.673Z","text":"都得给他戳破了才行","edited":false,"reply_to":"qccb4c936b07d990a28bf","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6736d22add8c9d928e97","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qccb4c936b07d990a28bf","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q08ca8928be25e3767997","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":495,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-25T22:39:21.176Z","text":"Tony的账本为什么不能公开？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q27b11823b6156c17f82c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q08ca8928be25e3767997","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q27b11823b6156c17f82c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q9a4ab2b17f6466e97858","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":496,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T22:39:34.393Z","text":"tony账本公开了啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9a4ab2b17f6466e97858","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qddf33f6db5ce1ffb7252","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":497,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-25T22:39:56.692Z","text":"哦，密封的那个文件为啥不能公开","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9a4ab2b17f6466e97858","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qddf33f6db5ce1ffb7252","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9a4ab2b17f6466e97858","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qde9c10fbdd57e7a2044f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":498,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T22:40:25.598Z","text":"那个公开怕影响太大 中美要开战的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qde9c10fbdd57e7a2044f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q691c80e95fc5bdc274e4","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":499,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-25T22:44:52.322Z","text":"联盟肯定不承认，更不会出钱，请不到律师，老郭上诉不就黄了吗。本来他们就是一伙的，正好一唱一和把上诉拖黄了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q45eb947753ac5458519f","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q691c80e95fc5bdc274e4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qdd222c43b502a97c0e93","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":500,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-25T22:45:25.220Z","text":"上诉有没有时间限制？ [删节：隐私信息]","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdd222c43b502a97c0e93","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf244e911477a4d0480e2","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":501,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T22:53:43.920Z","text":"有一次我跟我爸说到朝鲜战争我说美国当时就该丢个核弹在中南海，把我爸气得，说不知道咱家还有个反革命","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf244e911477a4d0480e2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6cca4240e9d218b7a664","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":502,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-07-25T23:02:09.989Z","text":"https://x.com/baoliaogeming/status/2081152822654230917?s=20","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6cca4240e9d218b7a664","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q60d6385cf2b396f93702","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":503,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-25T23:31:41.612Z","text":"这个地方应该是被告上诉打完整辩护权的焦点，政府主张被告和共谋们开那么多账户是为了诈骗洗钱，被告主张是被胁迫而采取的措施，然后政府在这里的意思是那不具有紧急性，你可以采取其他措施，你不采取其它措施而采取这种广开银行账号的措施，就是为了诈骗洗钱。但在庭审时，政府在向陪审团展示这些论证和证据，但限制被告展示中共迫害的证据，你政府可以展示证据来证明被告是诈骗和洗钱，被告就有权对等地展示证据来证明这是应对中共迫害的合法措施，以此来证明自己没有诈骗意图。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q99cfa0aa255be6ee433b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q60d6385cf2b396f93702","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q99cfa0aa255be6ee433b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf747a561a3b3c893fe7a","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":504,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-25T23:31:58.519Z","text":"群里这些[屏蔽词] 看不懂啊\n［用户 him***］  ［用户 may***］ ［用户 cin***］ ［用户 mon***］","edited":true,"reply_to":"q92a91ef602d37d914088","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf747a561a3b3c893fe7a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q92a91ef602d37d914088","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1aa9d0ea0cb38e382a10","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":505,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-25T23:33:56.654Z","text":"她懂个屁 YHWA和Lucifa都分不清 假的基督徒","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7c43db6ed0c51dccabfc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1aa9d0ea0cb38e382a10","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7c43db6ed0c51dccabfc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qce908e4627c0b681e692","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":506,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-25T23:35:43.630Z","text":"托雷斯瞎B裁，把案子弄成这个鸟样\n一开始南区就是奔着没收去的，不然不会23年7月，就急着处理Mahwah","edited":false,"reply_to":"q60d6385cf2b396f93702","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qce908e4627c0b681e692","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q60d6385cf2b396f93702","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6ac911c6547a317e2411","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":507,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-25T23:37:06.788Z","text":"现在已经不是乱搅和的阶段了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q45eb947753ac5458519f","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6ac911c6547a317e2411","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qe2bf75ddd129f9dcfeb3","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":508,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-25T23:44:19.707Z","text":"选举不算什么 司法更要命","edited":false,"reply_to":"q555ce857e5ee8f19f47e","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe2bf75ddd129f9dcfeb3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7ad65971b3ab48721f65","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":509,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-25T23:47:34.470Z","text":"李娅，在23年11月，继续在luc那登记债权人，为什么？\n因为她知道，刑事案最终会没收，把整个G系列，拿给破产案啊","edited":false,"reply_to":"qce908e4627c0b681e692","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7ad65971b3ab48721f65","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qce908e4627c0b681e692","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q3279e8fa126fea4af2d9","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":510,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-25T23:49:13.709Z","text":"如果是赔偿restitution，不能没收，而郭又是破产状态，luc找谁要钱去","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3279e8fa126fea4af2d9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q97c6c8221f6b2ce3a766","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":511,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-07-25T23:49:18.024Z","text":"2023年7月就已經將Mahwah處理給了Luc？？？\n這就是嚴重的程序不正義！！！\n\n王雁平與老郭都是在2024年才被判有罪。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qce908e4627c0b681e692","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q97c6c8221f6b2ce3a766","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qce908e4627c0b681e692","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qffe4e0062bb43622d800","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":512,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-07-25T23:55:30.722Z","text":"这些是否有人都写进了二巡？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q97c6c8221f6b2ce3a766","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qffe4e0062bb43622d800","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q97c6c8221f6b2ce3a766","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qea63b17a72860f5e2c7f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":513,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-07-25T23:55:48.816Z","text":"https://x.com/kk26400689/status/2081146130851578291?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qea63b17a72860f5e2c7f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q862f36c15d13161eb489","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":514,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-25T23:56:12.080Z","text":"Mahwah有人提到了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qffe4e0062bb43622d800","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q862f36c15d13161eb489","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qffe4e0062bb43622d800","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa5ada6c61e7fa2fc2b6d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":515,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-25T23:57:12.785Z","text":"哈恩 韩国农场 不也是这个套路","edited":false,"reply_to":"qea63b17a72860f5e2c7f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa5ada6c61e7fa2fc2b6d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qea63b17a72860f5e2c7f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa565c73943cc857ff51b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":516,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T00:00:57.365Z","text":"远了长岛 魏丽红 也是如此","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa565c73943cc857ff51b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qe1e11138cd258b5e3b10","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":517,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-07-26T00:01:18.131Z","text":"原来可以这样诈骗！","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe1e11138cd258b5e3b10","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q081cd4b6be6a29723120","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":518,"speaker":"may***","date":"2026-07-26T00:02:33.234Z","text":"赢了？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q081cd4b6be6a29723120","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qdb63b9b92a689fea6b8f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":519,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-07-26T00:04:34.051Z","text":"我們可以主張：本案中南區檢查官的行為已經是中國共產黨海外未登記代理人！！！","edited":false,"reply_to":"q40f3de349bd793720a5d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdb63b9b92a689fea6b8f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q40f3de349bd793720a5d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf922897b59cf3b741747","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":520,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:04:58.526Z","text":"你如果没有证据 二巡会把你封杀的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qdb63b9b92a689fea6b8f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf922897b59cf3b741747","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdb63b9b92a689fea6b8f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qcbdfbd1a47e77acc8ae8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":521,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T00:05:57.948Z","text":"她登记了多少？谁有她拿钱的证据？检方把她定义为受害人，怎么样找到她其实是污点证人？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7ad65971b3ab48721f65","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcbdfbd1a47e77acc8ae8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7ad65971b3ab48721f65","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qe50b3880642a3c27f859","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":522,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T00:07:08.484Z","text":"[删节：成员身份]他们告luc是中共代理人，不是被罚钱了吗","edited":true,"reply_to":"qdb63b9b92a689fea6b8f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe50b3880642a3c27f859","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdb63b9b92a689fea6b8f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q277095a92aa544586035","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":523,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-26T00:07:36.987Z","text":"我现在大概找到了为何luc在程序上还可以打gtv的主意，因为在gtv和解后，郭的家族基金往gtv里注入了资金，以补充利益和罚款，我之前理解为是补魏丽红的钱没有收缴的窟窿，也许两者都有，也许只是前者。在破产案那边，郭家族基金的钱就是郭的钱，这虽然这并不受美国法律支持，但luc们表示，康州破产法院就是这么无法无天，你能怎么着嘛！然后就说资金有混同，既然有混同，之前退的也得还回来由我luc重新分配。可能觉得很荒唐，但荒唐，不就是发生在郭身上的案件的常态吗？！","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q277095a92aa544586035","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qdc420d5903803b6dc5b0","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":524,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T00:07:47.014Z","text":"这个处理Mahwah是几号文件？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qce908e4627c0b681e692","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdc420d5903803b6dc5b0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qce908e4627c0b681e692","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1af8ebf39bd2c1edaf78","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":525,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:07:59.615Z","text":"https://x.com/ruienxiaoge3/status/2081169595482976455?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1af8ebf39bd2c1edaf78","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qfa4a676e3936c9b47e86","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":526,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T00:09:41.401Z","text":"辩方律师因为有律师职业道德的约束，有些话他们不能说","edited":false,"reply_to":"q594261a95fd8078f8be0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfa4a676e3936c9b47e86","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q594261a95fd8078f8be0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q32cd5984554d536e0af8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":527,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T00:10:02.000Z","text":"但是作为受害者，有些和你利益相关的事情，你是可以说的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q32cd5984554d536e0af8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qda614c5f195ad4bf1a4c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":528,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T00:10:11.728Z","text":"辩方律师和受害者是对立的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qda614c5f195ad4bf1a4c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2cceccd120701717fedd","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":529,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T00:10:23.785Z","text":"所以受害者可以说的话，辩方是不能说的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2cceccd120701717fedd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q4c963223739399e92678","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":530,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-07-26T00:10:44.187Z","text":"可以讓DOJ查他，之前那個威廉姆斯檢查官立案控告老郭，把老郭定罪後，他在任期沒完成的情況下主動辭職。去一間律師樓作為合伙人。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf922897b59cf3b741747","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4c963223739399e92678","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf922897b59cf3b741747","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q240495d99857ba8283d4","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":531,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:10:46.943Z","text":"瑞恩早就写了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qffe4e0062bb43622d800","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q240495d99857ba8283d4","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qffe4e0062bb43622d800","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q41f269252824d73039ca","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":532,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T00:11:07.074Z","text":"比如说，受害者可以让检方调查联盟同案犯","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q41f269252824d73039ca","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q924dc767a000e2cce4e6","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":533,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:11:18.077Z","text":"这个没有任何说服力 除非你真的抓到检方和共产党交易了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4c963223739399e92678","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q924dc767a000e2cce4e6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4c963223739399e92678","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q48adf303d6808d35792e","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":534,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T00:11:31.436Z","text":"但是辩方就不能直接说，你们调查同案犯","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q48adf303d6808d35792e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q8cd9b997122631f64333","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":535,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-07-26T00:12:03.285Z","text":"這個李娅在法制基金就拿了幾十萬美元","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcbdfbd1a47e77acc8ae8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8cd9b997122631f64333","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcbdfbd1a47e77acc8ae8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qb7fae30c5f212b5447d3","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":536,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-26T00:12:16.470Z","text":"有没有诈骗，在可操作层面，主要看有没有通过虚假陈述获利。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb7fae30c5f212b5447d3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q27b72260cecc0b0949f1","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":537,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T00:15:01.995Z","text":"可以说检方的目标和中共的目标高度一致，任何人检方和证人如果目标和中共高度一致，都应该受到严格审查吧？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf922897b59cf3b741747","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q27b72260cecc0b0949f1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf922897b59cf3b741747","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q478eab04c74e742685e6","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":538,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-07-26T00:19:20.262Z","text":"這些個案件總可以說吧？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q478eab04c74e742685e6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q459d764262f35ca384b6","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":539,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:19:53.820Z","text":"可以这样点 但是效果不大。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q27b72260cecc0b0949f1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q459d764262f35ca384b6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q27b72260cecc0b0949f1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf41331468a69f4370359","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":540,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:20:09.976Z","text":"［用户 spr***］ 你真正应该说的不是检方 而是法官 这是法官应该做的工作","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf41331468a69f4370359","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qc375ce7fa067297df810","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":541,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:20:36.888Z","text":"如果检方真的和中共勾兑 应该调查的是法官","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc375ce7fa067297df810","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q22b881c97af6facb72c5","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":542,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T00:21:29.469Z","text":"据说量刑后，司法部收到了马云5000万还是多少","edited":false,"reply_to":"q924dc767a000e2cce4e6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q22b881c97af6facb72c5","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q924dc767a000e2cce4e6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qfae666bd370e960dd5f3","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":543,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:21:41.946Z","text":"［用户 spr***］  但是 只要满足一个条件：就是检方开启没收 remission程序，就直接可以点爆法官，导致法律被中共操控 污染。 这也就是我昨天留的思考题","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfae666bd370e960dd5f3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qb0063f5392a701dcff45","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":544,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:21:47.865Z","text":"这又是哪来的？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q22b881c97af6facb72c5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb0063f5392a701dcff45","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q22b881c97af6facb72c5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7d2f330038764385ee3f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":545,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T00:22:20.910Z","text":"好像X上看来的，不知道是不是谣言","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7d2f330038764385ee3f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qfcb73f3f64de9cb5cab8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":546,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:22:31.373Z","text":"这些东西千万别信","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7d2f330038764385ee3f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfcb73f3f64de9cb5cab8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7d2f330038764385ee3f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q9606c96b4b173d37a50c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":547,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:22:35.851Z","text":"就算是真的 也没用","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9606c96b4b173d37a50c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q102682d2f5a1f7b0ace8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":548,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:23:17.209Z","text":"[删节：成员身份]  难道就没人知道 检方开启remission 会有什么美国司法红线被突破？","edited":true,"reply_to":"qfae666bd370e960dd5f3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q102682d2f5a1f7b0ace8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfae666bd370e960dd5f3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q80215de9a5884da98f58","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":549,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T00:23:28.166Z","text":"不是，主要看有没有欺诈意图和明知参与，不一定要拿钱","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb7fae30c5f212b5447d3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q80215de9a5884da98f58","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb7fae30c5f212b5447d3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa27df676e219a50fc632","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":550,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:23:42.939Z","text":"你其实稍微点到了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q27b72260cecc0b0949f1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa27df676e219a50fc632","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q27b72260cecc0b0949f1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5ee704b583b4db2bdb1b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":551,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:24:17.603Z","text":"［用户 spr***］  我来引导你一下 你说目标高度一致。 有什么事情 remission一开 坐实目标高度一致了？","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5ee704b583b4db2bdb1b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q03ad6a598bb637499211","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":552,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T00:25:31.892Z","text":"就是顺嘴一说","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9606c96b4b173d37a50c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q03ad6a598bb637499211","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9606c96b4b173d37a50c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q642d564bffd352a89d46","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":553,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T00:26:44.656Z","text":"CVRA的赔偿权利灭失？照你的不寻常路，就是检没收了他无权没收的钱😂","edited":false,"reply_to":"q102682d2f5a1f7b0ace8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q642d564bffd352a89d46","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q102682d2f5a1f7b0ace8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q331f6f96c96ae7f79991","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":554,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-07-26T00:26:50.848Z","text":"沒收來的錢會首先給Luc那邊的破產庭？\nLuc背後是普橫，普衡在中共國有律師樓，跟中共有千絲萬縷的關係，所以，Luc沒資格做這個trustee","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5ee704b583b4db2bdb1b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q331f6f96c96ae7f79991","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5ee704b583b4db2bdb1b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qe5183046893c21d2254a","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":555,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T00:28:18.035Z","text":"他们就是这样计划的呀","edited":false,"reply_to":"q331f6f96c96ae7f79991","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe5183046893c21d2254a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q331f6f96c96ae7f79991","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5a42b02e05dd1f362b64","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":556,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:28:27.407Z","text":"不对 和luc无关","edited":false,"reply_to":"q331f6f96c96ae7f79991","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5a42b02e05dd1f362b64","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q331f6f96c96ae7f79991","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q161342336214c46c94ee","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":557,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-07-26T00:33:12.786Z","text":"請指點迷津🙏","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5a42b02e05dd1f362b64","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q161342336214c46c94ee","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5a42b02e05dd1f362b64","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd905793d8774a0632cd7","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":558,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:33:23.482Z","text":"现在先不公布","edited":false,"reply_to":"q161342336214c46c94ee","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd905793d8774a0632cd7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q161342336214c46c94ee","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q91d35372c1e63b6f4424","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":559,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-07-26T00:36:44.402Z","text":"這些個案件應該可以在二巡說吧？\n在南區時辯方律師不知道為何不提？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q478eab04c74e742685e6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q91d35372c1e63b6f4424","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q478eab04c74e742685e6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf1ba42b236eaf1192020","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":560,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-26T00:37:56.753Z","text":"我说的实际操作层面，诈骗意图和实质性这种抽象的东西，主要就看你是否获利，只要你获利了，正常人会认为你就是在诈骗。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q80215de9a5884da98f58","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf1ba42b236eaf1192020","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q80215de9a5884da98f58","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q92cfddb61e62a4a473d8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":561,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-07-26T00:38:21.897Z","text":"你就算公布了答案，我还是不懂。😂","edited":false,"reply_to":"qfae666bd370e960dd5f3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q92cfddb61e62a4a473d8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfae666bd370e960dd5f3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qcd8cf8e5687cc357b390","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":562,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-07-26T00:39:18.105Z","text":"司法红线是什么概念？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q102682d2f5a1f7b0ace8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd8cf8e5687cc357b390","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q102682d2f5a1f7b0ace8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2ae6829b87695958a42c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":563,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:46:30.981Z","text":"［用户 chu***］ 我们甚至可以引用律师费这个事情 就说 检方不调查联盟 导致他们以郭文贵缺律师费为由继续诈骗 所以郭文贵二巡的律师会因此有波折。 而在第三方已经论证案件程序崩溃的情况下 继续等被告律师无疑是伤害article3 司法权本身","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2ae6829b87695958a42c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q621c49e3352a3a74a620","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":564,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T00:47:02.301Z","text":"所有对老郭不利的 都将是我们的武器","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2ae6829b87695958a42c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q621c49e3352a3a74a620","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2ae6829b87695958a42c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5c0bd4887d8d01435d68","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":565,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T00:50:32.499Z","text":"法律就是这么定义，只要推广投资的时候虚假陈述，有欺诈意图，即使没有人受害，即使受害人没有损失，喜交所还有赎回，被告相信钱最终会还给投资人，罪名都成立","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf1ba42b236eaf1192020","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5c0bd4887d8d01435d68","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf1ba42b236eaf1192020","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qbdfea5eae672bc108ee8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":566,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T00:52:33.249Z","text":"虚假陈述，要被告明知是虚假还陈述并参与","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbdfea5eae672bc108ee8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qe8aa9130c52c125d7209","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":567,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-26T01:01:58.489Z","text":"这个就是实质性，在实践中,怎么判断？怎么判断有意图？怎么判断明知？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbdfea5eae672bc108ee8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe8aa9130c52c125d7209","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbdfea5eae672bc108ee8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qb2a7f0d42ff5583578d3","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":568,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-26T01:03:01.215Z","text":"陪审团制度，就是基于人们对常识有信心。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb2a7f0d42ff5583578d3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qe85afdf0b29063b8202d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":569,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-26T01:03:49.906Z","text":"你忙活半天，没拿钱，没有拿钱未遂，正常人不会认为你有恶意。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe85afdf0b29063b8202d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q8d62a108ce2f8d59f4c5","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":570,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T01:04:46.229Z","text":"这种东西不用去研究","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5c0bd4887d8d01435d68","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8d62a108ce2f8d59f4c5","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5c0bd4887d8d01435d68","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q0c6007a57f54ee5ab127","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":571,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-26T01:05:54.815Z","text":"本案中，就是美国政府的下贱，把灭共演员的拿钱用rico包装成郭拿钱，陪审团能相信政府叙事，就是因为资金图显示有投资款进入被告家人。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0c6007a57f54ee5ab127","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1692bd4dbb0a9ed3ecc3","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":572,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T01:08:20.167Z","text":"这就是 ［用户 him***］ [删节：成员身份]  ［用户 may***］ [删节：成员身份] 暴露的地方啊\n量刑又不是结束，[删节：成员身份]早了\n智商是硬伤","edited":true,"reply_to":"qfae666bd370e960dd5f3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1692bd4dbb0a9ed3ecc3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfae666bd370e960dd5f3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5e01b8a1ebeb58d0b3f8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":573,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T01:12:51.151Z","text":"你得破他这一招","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5ec32743d221fb2cbab5","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5e01b8a1ebeb58d0b3f8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q45b01b371daa85c1ec72","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":574,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T01:13:11.505Z","text":"不要在他们的战场玩","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q45b01b371daa85c1ec72","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qbe51b262bd8855272e9b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":575,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T01:13:27.400Z","text":"换到我们的宪法级战场","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbe51b262bd8855272e9b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q81bac3d093bdd326535b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":576,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T01:15:15.971Z","text":"联合执法 賴昌星 不就是这么被玩儿死的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5ec32743d221fb2cbab5","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q81bac3d093bdd326535b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q8a791aaacd7f1136b1df","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":577,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T01:15:41.358Z","text":"以为到了canada万事大吉","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8a791aaacd7f1136b1df","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qc815bbd89e9776f32b09","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":578,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T01:16:50.177Z","text":"不是打细枝末节，是打规则了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbe51b262bd8855272e9b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc815bbd89e9776f32b09","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbe51b262bd8855272e9b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7e27f5865552fd78a104","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":579,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T01:17:40.654Z","text":"南区利用规则，下套框郭","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7e27f5865552fd78a104","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q9c97ae52489e0c2fa290","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":580,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T01:17:59.776Z","text":"二巡可以反过来玩儿","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9c97ae52489e0c2fa290","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qad9aa472d0d3e04644a4","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":581,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T01:20:24.866Z","text":"不然， ［用户 him***］ [删节：成员身份]为什么24h不停在这忽悠","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qad9aa472d0d3e04644a4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q301751e884d46398c87d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":582,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T01:21:18.133Z","text":"她属于骨干，想卖青，同时卖自诉的，她摘桃","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q301751e884d46398c87d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5e6599e09ef3000002df","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":583,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T01:22:41.966Z","text":"满满的求生欲 ［用户 him***］","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5e6599e09ef3000002df","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa667a84e5e0037adc81d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":584,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T01:40:38.677Z","text":"所以他把破产案 延期到11月","edited":false,"reply_to":"q277095a92aa544586035","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa667a84e5e0037adc81d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q277095a92aa544586035","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q374efdc686bc556cdcf8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":585,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T01:40:56.372Z","text":"估计也在等中期 见风使舵","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q374efdc686bc556cdcf8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qc56adfbaf489c972b6a9","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":586,"speaker":"may***","date":"2026-07-26T01:46:18.241Z","text":"政府只能没收真正属于被告人的资产，无权没收不属于被告人的第三方财产","edited":false,"reply_to":"q102682d2f5a1f7b0ace8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc56adfbaf489c972b6a9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q102682d2f5a1f7b0ace8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q0a9a25a1efb3c4b368c8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":587,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T02:00:14.771Z","text":"这个只是小小的一条","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc56adfbaf489c972b6a9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0a9a25a1efb3c4b368c8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc56adfbaf489c972b6a9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q00d03af932014a04eb6b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":588,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T02:08:23.336Z","text":"如果没收的依据是犯罪所得，问题就不只是财产登记在谁名下。关键问题是：被没收的特定财产，是否本身构成被告实际从犯罪中取得的所得，或者是否可以追溯至该等犯罪所得。\n\n根据《美国法典》第21编第853(a)(1)条，政府可以没收“构成被告直接或间接取得之犯罪所得，或来源于该等所得”的财产。在 Honeycutt v. United States 一案中，美国最高法院裁定，第853(a)(1)条仅限于被告本人实际取得的财产；通常不能要求一名被告对仅由其他个人或共谋者取得的犯罪所得承担没收责任。\n\n第三方持有的财产在何种情况下仍可被没收\n\n例如，被告通过欺诈从投资者处取得100万美元，之后：\n\n- 将款项转给亲属；\n- 使用该款项购买一项登记在他人名下的房产；或者\n- 将款项存入其控制的公司账户。\n\n政府仍可主张，这些款项或以其购买的替代财产，属于可以追溯的犯罪所得。\n\n根据第853(c)条，政府对符合没收条件的犯罪所得所享有的利益，可以追溯至犯罪行为发生之时。这通常被称为“关系回溯原则”。因此，被告后来将犯罪所得转给第三方，并不会自动阻止没收。\n\n第三方可以通过第853(n)条规定的附属程序对没收提出异议。第三方通常需要证明以下两种情况之一：\n\n1. 在产生没收依据的犯罪行为发生时，第三方对该财产享有已经成立的合法权益，而且该权益本来就属于第三方，而非被告，或者第三方的权益优先于被告的权益；或者\n2. 第三方是支付了合理对价的善意购买人，并且在取得财产时，没有合理理由相信该财产可能受到没收。\n\n仅仅主张“这是犯罪所得”并不足够\n\n政府不能只是给财产贴上“犯罪所得”的标签。政府必须证明犯罪行为、被告取得犯罪所得，以及被没收的特定财产之间存在法律要求的联系。\n\n例如，在以下情况下，没收可能不成立：\n\n- 该财产始终由第三方享有真正的法律所有权和实际受益权；\n- 被告只是以保管人、托管人、受托人或代理人的身份持有该财产；\n- 被告从未直接或间接取得所称的犯罪所得；\n- 政府无法充分追踪该财产与犯罪所得之间的联系；或者\n- 政府试图使用完全无污染、真正属于第三方的财产，仅仅为了满足被告的没收金额责任。\n\nHoneycutt 案强调，“直接或间接”描述的是被告以何种方式取得财产，并不取消“被告本人必须实际取得该财产”这一要求。\n\n替代财产\n\n如果原始犯罪所得已经灭失、被转移、被挥霍，或者已经与其他财产混合到无法分割，第853(p)条可能允许政府没收替代财产。\n\n但是，该条规定的替代没收对象限于被告的其他财产，且金额不得超过已经无法取得的犯罪所得价值。它并不授权政府仅仅因为原始犯罪所得已经找不到，就没收真正属于第三方的财产。\n\n最重要的区别\n\n以下两种说法具有不同的法律意义：\n\n«“这些钱最初来自第三方。”»\n\n这并不能阻止没收。通过欺诈从受害人处取得的款项，在被告取得后，可以成为犯罪所得。\n\n与此不同的是：\n\n«“被没收的特定财产始终由第三方合法并实际拥有，被告从未取得该财产，该财产也不是来源于被告所取得的犯罪所得。”»\n\n这将构成反对没收的重要理由。\n\n更准确的表述是：\n\n«即使没收以犯罪所得为依据，政府仍必须证明，被没收的特定财产本身构成被告取得的犯罪所得，或者来源于、可追溯至被告所取得的犯罪所得。真正属于第三方的财产，不能仅仅为了满足被告的犯罪所得没收责任而被没收；但是，已经转移给第三方的可追溯犯罪所得，仍可能受到没收，但应受第三方依据第853(n)条享有的权利保护。»\n\n具体分析还可能因适用的没收法条不同而有所区别，例如《美国法典》第18编第981条、第982条，或者RICO没收条款，因为最终应以具体适用法条的文字和结构为准。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc56adfbaf489c972b6a9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q00d03af932014a04eb6b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc56adfbaf489c972b6a9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q37731e3f9b91c6210582","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":589,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T02:11:07.134Z","text":"https://x.com/ruienxiaoge777/status/2081200475031195789?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q37731e3f9b91c6210582","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6fffe60dac90e6d2087f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":590,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T02:13:32.438Z","text":"https://x.com/ruienxiaoge777/status/2081201137617871340?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6fffe60dac90e6d2087f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q715addb6214364eafe90","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":591,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T02:20:36.966Z","text":"投资人不能仅仅通过证明自己投入过资金、遭受了损失，或者属于犯罪受害人，就在《美国法典》第21编第853(n)条程序中胜诉。投资人必须证明，自己对没收令中列明的特定财产享有法律认可的财产权利。\n\n根据第853(n)(6)条，投资人负有举证责任，并必须以优势证据标准，通过以下两条法定路径之一证明其权利。\n\n一、门槛要求：对特定财产享有法律权益\n\n投资人首先必须明确指出：\n\n- 正在被没收的具体银行账户、不动产、证券、现金或其他资产；\n- 投资人对该特定资产享有的所有权、产权、留置权、信托权益、担保权益或其他法律认可的权益；\n- 产生该权益的州法、合同法或其他法律依据。\n\n在第二巡回法院，一般性的还款请求通常不足以支持第853(n)条申请。普通无担保债权人通常对被告的任何特定资产都不享有法律权益。\n\n因此，投资人的权利必须与某项可识别的特定财产相联系，而不能只是针对被告的整体财产或一般资金池提出请求。\n\n以下两种表述在法律上有明显区别：\n\n«“被告欠我100,000美元。”»\n\n这通常只是一般债权。\n\n而：\n\n«“这个特定的被没收账户中包含我的100,000美元，而且被告依法或依合同必须为我将该款项存放在托管账户中。”»\n\n这可能构成能够支持第853(n)条申请的特定财产权利。\n\n二、第一条路径：第853(n)(6)(A)条下已经归属或优先的权益\n\n投资人必须证明，在产生没收依据的犯罪行为发生时：\n\n1. 投资人的财产权已经归属于投资人，而不是归属于被告；或者\n2. 投资人的财产权在法律上优先于被告的财产权。\n\n由于政府对犯罪所得的权利通常可以根据“关系回溯原则”追溯至犯罪行为发生之时，投资人权利产生的时间非常重要。\n\n一般而言，投资人必须证明，其对该财产的权益在政府的没收权益产生之前已经存在，或者在法律上优先于被告及政府的权益。\n\n可能符合此类要求的情形包括：\n\n- 投资人对特定财产拥有法律所有权或共同所有权；\n- 投资人对该财产拥有已经完善的担保权益或留置权；\n- 款项依法或依合同为投资人存放在托管、信托、保管或独立账户中；\n- 被告只是作为投资人的代理人、受托人、保管人或名义持有人占有财产；\n- 投资人依据适用州法对财产享有推定信托权益；\n- 投资人的资金能够被明确追踪至被没收的特定账户或资产。\n\n第二巡回法院承认，推定信托在某些情况下可能构成优先法律权益。但是，投资人必须满足适用州法规定的推定信托要件，并且能够把自己的财产追踪至被没收的具体资产。\n\n推定信托不会自动附着于被告拥有的所有资产。\n\n在存在大量投资人或受害人的案件中，还可能出现衡平法问题。如果为某一名投资人设立推定信托，会导致该投资人优先取得有限资产池中的大部分财产，并损害其他处境相同的受害人，法院可能拒绝设立推定信托。\n\n三、第二条路径：第853(n)(6)(B)条下的善意有偿购买人\n\n作为另一种选择，投资人必须证明：\n\n1. 投资人购买了被没收的特定财产中的权利、产权或权益；\n2. 投资人为取得该权益支付了有价值的对价；并且\n3. 在购买时，投资人没有合理理由相信该财产可能被没收。\n\n这条路径通常保护无辜购买人对某项特定财产所取得的权益。\n\n但是，它通常不会把普通无担保投资人或债权人转变为被告财产的所有人。\n\n例如，购买一家公司的股份，通常意味着投资人拥有的是公司股份，而不是公司的银行账户、建筑物或其他公司资产。\n\n第二巡回法院通常认为，公司股东或有限责任公司的成员，对公司本身拥有的特定财产并不享有直接法律权益。\n\n因此：\n\n- 如果被没收的是投资人本人拥有的特定股份，投资人可能有权主张对这些股份的权益；\n- 如果被没收的是公司名下的一栋建筑，仅仅拥有该公司的股份，通常不足以证明投资人对该建筑享有第853(n)条意义上的财产权。\n\n四、投资人通常需要提供的证据\n\n一份较强的第853(n)条申请，通常应当提供能够证明财产权和资金追踪关系的证据，例如：\n\n- 投资协议、认购协议、购买协议、托管协议或信托协议；\n- 证明原始资金转账的银行记录；\n- 能够追踪资金从投资人流入被没收账户或资产的记录；\n- 房契、账户登记、股权证书或其他所有权文件；\n- 借款协议和担保协议；\n- UCC融资声明或留置权登记记录；\n- 说明资金必须如何保管或使用的电子邮件、短信或其他通信；\n- 证明被告不享有实际受益权的证据；\n- 证明投资人权益何时产生的日期和文件；\n- 如果依据第853(n)(6)(B)条主张权利，还需要证明支付了对价，并且在取得财产时不知道、也没有合理理由知道财产可能被没收。\n\n申请书必须陈述具体事实，而不能只写法律结论。\n\n如果申请人未能合理陈述其对特定被没收财产享有法律认可的权益，法院可能在允许证据开示或举行听证之前，就驳回第853(n)条申请。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q715addb6214364eafe90","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q9b321435200ac8fc18f8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":592,"speaker":"404***","date":"2026-07-26T02:23:42.977Z","text":"😶 老郭今年出不来了吧","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9b321435200ac8fc18f8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2ac54c15987fb8a6437e","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":593,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T02:25:24.083Z","text":"和他出不出来，没关系啊","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9b321435200ac8fc18f8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2ac54c15987fb8a6437e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9b321435200ac8fc18f8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q8986c333ace17b22e83e","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":594,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T02:25:31.107Z","text":"你还没看懂？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8986c333ace17b22e83e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q81638b9f2170579ae3cc","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":595,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T02:25:39.174Z","text":"如果我所料不错今年年底之前","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9b321435200ac8fc18f8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q81638b9f2170579ae3cc","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9b321435200ac8fc18f8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2c8b1ebae0b56c65cab9","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":596,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T02:26:20.501Z","text":"只要下一波牌都能打出去","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c8b1ebae0b56c65cab9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa66e1cb772f761257d90","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":597,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T02:26:25.031Z","text":"今年年底最快","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa66e1cb772f761257d90","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q883d464bb37a45ea862e","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":598,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T02:28:31.363Z","text":"对于郭文贵案件中的普通H Coin/H Dollar购买者，或者G|CLUBS会员资格购买者而言，通过《美国法典》第21编第853(n)条胜诉的可能性总体上较低。对于普通会员资格购买者而言，胜诉可能性通常更低。\n\n除非购买者能够证明，自己对某一项被没收的特定资产享有法律认可的财产权，否则仅仅证明自己支付了款项、遭受了损失或属于受害人，通常不足以在第853(n)条程序中胜诉。\n\n\n一、加密货币购买者\n\n普通H Coin或H Dollar购买者的第853(n)条申请通常较弱，如果其主张仅仅是：\n\n«“我支付了100,000美元购买H Coin或H Dollar，这项计划是欺诈，因此我要求从被扣押的账户中返还100,000美元。”»\n\n这种事实通常能够支持以下类型的请求：\n\n- 要求返还款项；\n- 撤销交易；\n- 请求损害赔偿；\n- 申请刑事赔偿；\n- 申请行政减免或返还。\n\n但这些事实不一定能够证明购买者对某一个特定银行账户、钱包或其他被没收资产享有所有权。\n\n政府在案件中对审判证据的描述是，H Coin和H Dollar并不是通常意义上运行于独立区块链上的加密货币，而主要是记录在公司内部系统中的账户数据。政府还表示，其扣押了与相关计划有关的大量银行账户资金和其他资产。\n\n在以下情况下，购买者的第853(n)条主张会明显增强\n\n购买者如果能够证明以下事实，案件可能更有可行性：\n\n- 某一个特定被没收账户中存放的是专门为该购买者持有的资金；\n- 合同要求购买款必须被单独存放、托管或以信托形式持有；\n- 购买者并未将资金的完整所有权转让给交易平台，而是一直保留实际受益所有权；\n- 被政府没收的某一个特定钱包、账户余额、代币头寸或数字资产，在法律上属于该购买者；\n- 购买者能够通过完整交易记录追踪其资产；\n- 适用法律认可双方之间存在明示信托、托管、寄托或推定信托关系。\n\n但是，仅仅能够追踪资金通常仍然不一定足够。\n\n第二巡回法院的判例通常要求申请人对某一项“具体、特定的资产”享有法律权益。仅仅拥有向被告要求偿还款项的一般无担保债权，通常不符合第853(n)条的要求。\n\n推定信托主张\n\n加密货币购买者可能主张，被欺诈取得的资金应当被视为由被告以推定信托方式为购买者持有。\n\n第二巡回法院承认，在适当情况下，依法成立的推定信托可能构成第853(n)(6)(A)条下优先于被告的法律权益。\n\n但是，购买者通常必须证明：\n\n- 满足适用州法规定的推定信托要件；\n- 所主张的资金能够被追踪至特定被没收财产；\n- 给予该购买者优先权不会在衡平法上不公平地损害其他处境相同的受害人。\n\n在涉及大量购买者和混合资金的大型欺诈案件中，最后一点通常构成重大障碍。\n\n如果法院承认某一名购买者对资金池享有推定信托权益，可能导致该购买者优先于数千名其他遭受同类损失的购买者取得有限资产。法院可能基于公平考虑拒绝给予这种优先权。\n\n二、G|CLUBS会员资格购买者\n\n普通G|CLUBS会员资格购买者的第853(n)条申请通常比加密货币购买者的申请更弱。\n\n购买会员资格通常产生的是：\n\n- 接受会员服务的合同权利；\n- 可能存在的退款权利；\n- 因欺诈或违约产生的请求权；\n- 如果曾承诺给予股份，则可能产生未交付股份的合同或欺诈请求。\n\n但是，购买会员资格通常不会使购买者取得以下财产的所有权：\n\n- G|CLUBS的银行账户；\n- 会费支付后账户中的资金；\n- 使用会员款项购买的不动产或车辆；\n- 关联公司名下的资产；\n- 被告的其他一般财产。\n\n政府称，G|CLUBS通过出售会员资格筹集了大约2.4亿美元，会员获得的实际利益很少或根本没有，一些购买者原本预期获得股份，但最终并未取得。政府还表示，部分资金被用于购买豪华房地产和支付个人开支。\n\n因此，普通会员的主张通常表现为：\n\n«“我根据虚假陈述支付了会员费，但没有得到承诺的权益或服务。”»\n\n这可能是一项重要且有效的受害人损失主张，但通常不能证明会员对某一栋被没收的豪宅、车辆、银行账户或其他资产享有所有权。\n\n哪些情况可能增强会员购买者的申请\n\n如果购买者能够证明以下事实，其申请可能更强：\n\n- 会员款依法或依合同可以退还，并且必须保存在托管账户中；\n- 收款方只是资金保管人、代理人或受托人；\n- 合同规定在特定条件实现前，资金所有权不会转移；\n- 某些特定股份或其他财产权益已经合法发行给购买者，而被没收的正是这些具体权益；\n- 购买者拥有已经完善的留置权或担保权益；\n- 购买者本人的特定财产被错误地列入没收令。\n\n仅仅证明曾经被承诺获得股份，通常弱于证明某些特定、已经合法发行的股份事实上属于购买者。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q883d464bb37a45ea862e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7b0c62b281dbd1bf0958","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":599,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T02:31:01.820Z","text":"三、第853(n)(6)(B)条的善意有偿购买人规定通常不能解决问题\n\n购买者可能主张自己是第853(n)(6)(B)条规定的善意有偿购买人。\n\n但是，该条要求申请人购买的是被实际没收的那项财产中的权利、产权或权益。\n\n例如：\n\n- 购买H Coin通常并不意味着购买了发行公司银行账户的所有权；\n- 购买俱乐部会员资格通常并不意味着购买了俱乐部豪宅或车辆中的产权；\n- 支付款项后，该款项后来被用于购买某项资产，也不会自动使付款人取得该资产的所有权\n哪一种具体权利。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7b0c62b281dbd1bf0958","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd7dd4c83ac0424a56339","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":600,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T02:37:33.954Z","text":"即使你不承认自己是被告的“受害人”，仍然可能寻求追回资金，但可采用的途径取决于你主张返还资金的法律依据。\n\n一、第853(n)条：主张特定财产属于你\n\n提出第853(n)条申请，不要求你承认自己是犯罪受害人。你主张的是：\n\n«“这项特定的被没收财产，或者其中某项可依法识别的权益，属于我，而不属于被告。”»\n\n你需要明确指出具体被没收的资产，并证明以下两种情况之一：\n\n- 在产生没收依据的犯罪行为发生时，你已经拥有该财产，或者你的法律权益优先于被告的权益；或者\n- 你是该特定财产权益的善意有偿购买人，并且在取得该权益时，没有合理理由相信该财产可能被没收。\n\n第853(n)条申请必须在伪证罪处罚约束下签署，并说明你的财产权利的性质、范围、产生时间及取得经过。\n\n这种途径可能适用于以下情形：\n\n- 资金是以托管或信托方式为你持有；\n- 资金依法或依合同必须单独存放；\n- 被告只是作为你的保管人或代理人持有资金；\n- 资金能够追踪至某一特定账户或资产，而且你一直保留所有权；\n- 你对该财产拥有有效的留置权或担保权益。\n\n但是，仅仅证明被告欠你钱，通常不足以构成第853(n)条意义上的财产权利。\n\n二、行政减免：作为因犯罪遭受损失的人请求补偿\n\n行政减免与第853(n)条不同。\n\n根据《联邦法规》第28编第9.8条，以受害人身份申请行政减免的人，通常必须证明自己遭受了由没收所依据的犯罪，或者与该犯罪相关的犯罪，直接造成的特定金钱损失。\n\n相关规定通常还要求申请人证明：\n\n- 损失具有文件证据支持；\n- 申请人没有明知参与相关犯罪；\n- 申请人尚未从其他来源获得补偿；\n- 没有其他合理可行的资产可以用于赔偿该损失。\n\n因此，你不一定必须表述为：\n\n«“我承认自己被郭文贵本人直接伤害或欺骗。”»\n\n但你通常必须证明以下具有法律意义的事实：\n\n«“我因没收所依据的犯罪，或者同一犯罪计划、安排或共谋中的相关犯罪，直接遭受了可证明的金钱损失。”»\n\n“相关犯罪”通常包括作为同一计划、设计或共谋组成部分而实施的犯罪。\n\n这一差别在以下情况下可能很重要：\n\n- 实际与你交易的是其他参与者或相关实体；\n- 郭文贵本人没有直接与你联系；\n- 你在《犯罪受害人权利法》下的身份仍存在争议；\n- 你不愿接受检方对全部事实所作的每一种表述；\n- 你仍然保留独立的所有权、合同权利或其他法律主张。\n\n但是，如果你明确声明自己没有受到相关犯罪或任何相关计划的损害，这通常会使你不符合受害人行政减免的条件，因为由犯罪直接造成的金钱损失是该程序的重要要件。\n\n三、可以保留权利的较为一致的表述\n\n申请人可以在事实真实的前提下作出类似以下的有限陈述：\n\n«在不承认本人在所有法律、法定或程序意义上均属于“犯罪受害人”，也不承认被告本人曾直接向本人作出陈述的情况下，本人主张，自己因没收所依据的犯罪，或者同一被指控计划中的相关犯罪，直接遭受了有文件证明的金钱损失。本人保留所有与财产权、合同权、法定权利及程序权利有关的主张。»\n\n这种表述试图区分：\n\n- 为满足行政减免要求而承认必要的事实；与\n- 对《犯罪受害人权利法》身份、与郭文贵本人之间的直接关系、财产所有权或其他争议问题作出更广泛的法律让步。\n\n但是，保留权利的文字不能代替必要事实。申请人仍然必须如实说明：\n\n- 具体交易；\n- 支付金额；\n- 购买的产品或权益；\n- 实际损失金额；\n- 该损失与相关犯罪之间的因果关系。\n\n四、其他可能的追偿方式\n\n如果你完全否认自己具有受害人身份，其他可能的途径包括：\n\n- 根据第853(n)条提出所有权或优先权益申请；\n- 在法规允许的情况下，以所有人或留置权人的身份，而不是以普通受害人的身份申请行政减免；\n- 对依法承担责任的个人或实体提起合同、撤销交易、欺诈或不当得利之诉；\n- 通过可能存在的接管、破产、清算或债权申报程序寻求回收；\n- 与对你负有独立法律责任的当事人达成和解。\n\n这些途径各自需要独立的法律依据，而且不能保证最终仍有足够资产可供执行。\n\n五、适用于郭文贵案件的实际分析\n\n在郭文贵案件中，法院认为通过传统刑事赔偿程序处理损失并不现实，并提到政府计划在没收程序完成后，通过行政减免程序向受害人提供补偿。\n\n因此，对于普通H Coin、H Dollar或G|CLUBS购买者而言：\n\n- 不承认受害人身份： 最可能适用的途径是第853(n)条，但前提是能够证明对某一项特定被没收财产享有法律权益；\n- 申请行政减免： 必须证明因相关犯罪或同一犯罪计划遭受了直接金钱损失，但不一定必须承认郭文贵本人曾直接与你联系或直接欺骗你；\n- 完全否认自己受到犯罪计划的任何损害： 通常会与受害人行政减免的资格要求相冲突。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd7dd4c83ac0424a56339","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"}],"prev_batch_id":"batch-000138","next_batch_id":"batch-000140"}