{"id":"batch-000139","number":139,"revision":1,"date_start":"2026-07-24T16:45:20.155Z","date_end":"2026-07-27T00:55:32.530Z","total_messages":1000,"summary_en":"Community discussion, batch 139 (Jul 24, 2026 – Jul 27, 2026), 1,000 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Batch 139 (July 24, 2026 to July 27, 2026) shows community dispute over U.S. forfeiture reach, Tony/Sarah materials, disclosure obligations, and who qualifies as third-party claimants or amici. They contest whether sovereignty framing blocks enforcement, whether Guo’s boss role proves ownership, and whether IAC or vacate/emergency-stay paths can materially change appellate posture. Repeated references center on 21 U.S.C. § 853(n)(6)(A)(B), 853(i), and remission implications. No extra docket or ECF identifiers appear in the supplied messages. Community statements, not court findings.","guide_en":[{"title":"Whether U.S. can pursue forfeiture amid sovereignty disputes and the scope of \"political question\" abstention","description":"Participants contend that sovereignty arguments either support U.S. enforcement authority or, if treated as a political question, should limit review, with disagreement over whether investor-status can narrow application; community descriptions remain argumentative rather than settled legal outcomes. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q4e9529a109310c4b2fa8","qe43e12d4848cae7f2848","q7de011de8a19ed1f0438"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q4e9529a109310c4b2fa8","summary_en":"him*** argues the U.S. can seize funds regardless of Chinese sovereignty claims and says China is not the one pursuing recovery there. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qe43e12d4848cae7f2848","summary_en":"him*** questions whether U.S. victim-rights protections apply to investors who are mostly from mainland China. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q7de011de8a19ed1f0438","summary_en":"kir*** claims that if the matter is political, Torres should not review it, framing it as a non-justiciable issue. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Tony and Sarah materials: authenticity, evidentiary weight, and sealed status","description":"Participants claim Tony and Sarah records are central to evidentiary battles, with some treating them as potentially decisive if true and others denying certainty because they remain sealed or unverified. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q8feba8920f4e1acfbb25","q3ab473f2c74044540d13","q7a4207d1f8a2162db381"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q8feba8920f4e1acfbb25","summary_en":"him*** says Tony’s documents, if genuine, cannot be easily undermined. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q3ab473f2c74044540d13","summary_en":"him*** says the Tony files are sealed, so he says no one can confirm their truth status yet. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q7a4207d1f8a2162db381","summary_en":"him*** insists that if the materials are authentic, their significance is independent of prior personal anecdotes about another user. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Prosecutorial money-trail and ledger transparency: where deposits went and recoverability scope","description":"Participants dispute whether prosecutors have compelled enough production to map money flows, claiming missing farm-owner testimony and ledgers leaves forfeiture tracing contested and ownership arguments weakened. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q828e9553c28f99ba7c90","q952c6e9aaf0e18c962d1","qf7169b871b9a8ccee1a8"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q828e9553c28f99ba7c90","summary_en":"hel*** contends the prosecution should subpoena former farm owners and require investor account books to substantiate fund tracing. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q952c6e9aaf0e18c962d1","summary_en":"ntp*** alleges currency-loan handling in Cosmos while also dismissing the leak network as fraudulent, and frames it as a disputed credibility challenge. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qf7169b871b9a8ccee1a8","summary_en":"spr*** argues that for the claim to hold, Cosmos would have had to send out funds first, then become a farm owner. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Third-party standing and amici limits: who can file key motions and drive procedure","description":"Participants contend that investor status and CVRA-related posture do not automatically grant amicus or litigation authority, and they dispute where third-party participation can legitimately influence motions and strategy. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q923c31604d4067a7bfd3","q14e6dc43a92211f1c9e5","qcf61880baf3b01628491"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q923c31604d4067a7bfd3","summary_en":"kir*** argues a participant cannot simply act as defendant counsel and therefore lacks standing to drive the case as if representing defense interests. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q14e6dc43a92211f1c9e5","summary_en":"kir*** claims an investor in a 853/ CVRA context cannot claim amicus status. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qcf61880baf3b01628491","summary_en":"kir*** reiterates that investor status alone does not qualify someone as a friend of the court. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"IAC and procedural defects: can ineffectiveness override evidence and merits","description":"Participants dispute whether counsel conduct reaches constitutional-level ineffective-assistance arguments, with some asserting it was a core structural failure and others treating those claims as dependent on how third-party challenges evolve. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q214510cf28b4c0c83fd4","q97b5f8a5ec2805a3bc3a","qca1bdf508cc33920fa2c"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q214510cf28b4c0c83fd4","summary_en":"kir*** labels reliance on the Alliance Farm as witness evidence by defense counsel as the strongest example of ineffective assistance. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q97b5f8a5ec2805a3bc3a","summary_en":"kir*** says despite broad arguments hurting Guo, Sarah’s filing is framed as best available IAC proof if no third party fully overturns the case. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qca1bdf508cc33920fa2c","summary_en":"kir*** says a third party has already, in this view, collapsed the case, while defense counsel still appears aligned with the alliance side. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Forfeiture scope and property boundaries: personal property versus crime proceeds and inferred control","description":"Participants contend that merely calling someone a boss does not resolve forfeiture ownership, arguing personal-property admissions and control are treated differently and cannot be presumed equivalent. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q99ec6bdc35aa2d784738","q65f5a47979711519353d","q1f5fe7591cc2f037a50c"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q99ec6bdc35aa2d784738","summary_en":"reb*** argues that an admission by Guo that assets were personal would function almost like a plea admission. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q65f5a47979711519353d","summary_en":"him*** counters that Guo being the boss does not automatically make the funds his property. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q1f5fe7591cc2f037a50c","summary_en":"reb*** says proving Guo was a boss is necessary but not sufficient to prove ownership for forfeiture purposes. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"21 U.S.C. § 853(n), 853(i), and remission sequencing: property claims and procedural viability","description":"Participants contend that ordinary investor or victim loss claims are weak under 853(n)(6) without identifiable legal rights in specific assets, while a few argue narrow pathways like tracing, trust, or secured interests could still support relief. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q715addb6214364eafe90","q883d464bb37a45ea862e","q28fbb5aa0e99dc38b2cd"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q715addb6214364eafe90","summary_en":"him*** explains that under 21 U.S.C. § 853(n), investors must show a legal interest in specific seized property, not just payment loss or victim status, and meet burdened evidence standards. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q883d464bb37a45ea862e","summary_en":"him*** applies the same framework to H Coin/H Dollar and G|CLUBS purchasers, arguing most have only general restitution-type claims unless specific property rights are proven, with trust or tracing arguments narrowly limited. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q28fbb5aa0e99dc38b2cd","summary_en":"joh*** contends the forfeiture process appears stalled, suggesting urgency in the current procedural moment. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Second-appeal mechanics: what vacate and emergency stay might change in post-judgment review","description":"Participants dispute the practical effect of emergency-stay and vacate orders, with some claiming uncertainty and others framing the pending posture as unusually broad and unstable. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qa938cbb543b620a8fd4b","q849414445c010517a6ae","q11beac99adf3c75e2849"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qa938cbb543b620a8fd4b","summary_en":"kir*** says he still does not understand what the pending emergency-stay and vacate posture means in practical appellate terms. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q849414445c010517a6ae","summary_en":"kir*** claims the current scale and level of collapse is historically unprecedented. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q11beac99adf3c75e2849","summary_en":"kir*** repeatedly mentions a broad \"vacate all\" approach, suggesting multiple orders are being contemplated. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"External power politics and U.S.-China framing in case interpretation","description":"Participants contend that geopolitical actors and political timing are being used to explain procedural shifts, while others dispute the causal strength of these narratives versus case facts. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qfac8ef30ef3ddf3a0d21","q1090d5ce578beec64749","qa296c4ac10f3b75e018a"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qfac8ef30ef3ddf3a0d21","summary_en":"reb*** claims CCP-linked pressure is inferred from early arrests followed by non-arrest patterns, portraying sustained global monitoring of the case. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q1090d5ce578beec64749","summary_en":"hel*** recounts an origin story where a repaid mainland debt preceded litigation, says U.S. courts first declined jurisdiction on venue/sovereignty grounds and later accepted it. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qa296c4ac10f3b75e018a","summary_en":"joh*** adds that Pompeo’s CIA background and institutional networks are cited as contextual factors in the political interpretation of the matter. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Alliance and mastermind attribution: Toros/inner-circle narratives and operator theories","description":"Participants argue over insider-versus-theater explanations, with claims that certain groups are scammers or resigned participants and that narrative control remains contested between conspiratorial and skeptical camps. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qbab258659bf27ef88772","q74a7ee48ec3b1bb8b976","q56e17271f73eba117d5d"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qbab258659bf27ef88772","summary_en":"nin*** broadly dismisses multiple alliance figures as scammers, calling the Guo case a watershed and attacking those defenses. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q74a7ee48ec3b1bb8b976","summary_en":"kir*** remarks that Anxiaodong has reportedly accepted the situation, using that acceptance to frame momentum claims. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q56e17271f73eba117d5d","summary_en":"kir*** says he believes script-style plotting is real and criticizes ongoing public ridicule in the group as proof of it. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Social identity conflict and discourse warfare: labeling, neutrality claims, and emotional derailment","description":"Participants contend the thread features identity labeling and emotional attacks that can displace evidence-based argument, even where some members still claim a non-bullying or neutral posture. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q25c981af7ad722f4774c","q9359021ac248f3bcc9be","q99ac8736e8923d710cbd"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q25c981af7ad722f4774c","summary_en":"cin*** says they are not neutral toward himam but says they are detached from Guo personally, seeing him as a fraud without wanting to spend effort exposing all allegations. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q9359021ac248f3bcc9be","summary_en":"cin*** clarifies their neutrality as simply not bullying or attacking other participants. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q99ac8736e8923d710cbd","summary_en":"may*** says one participant keeps analyzing aggressively while nobody appears to take responsibility for leading the defense narrative. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Timeline projections: Torez-related moments and Sept. 24 as appeal inflection points","description":"Participants contend that dates such as 9/24 and related events are being used as predictive markers for a second-appeal path, with uncertainty about whether this is analytical insight or speculation. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qf01dda7f6b7e035ed451","qb9785c3a3715ff9f3b8b","qf9e28665ad820b947f93"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qf01dda7f6b7e035ed451","summary_en":"kir*** reports a participant was 'called back' around timeline discussion, suggesting a perceived staged return to the thread. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qb9785c3a3715ff9f3b8b","summary_en":"wan*** predicts a U.S.-China rupture may become evident around Sept. 24, linked to midterm and economic stress points. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qf9e28665ad820b947f93","summary_en":"ntp*** asks a clarifying challenge about what \"9/24\" is referring to, indicating unresolved shared understanding of the timing thesis. Community statements, not court findings."}]}],"summary":"讨论基本呈现程序法理与政治叙事双轨并行。主要争点在于：美国在主权纠纷下是否可直接追缴、Tony与Sarah相关材料是否可信及是否可采、检方资金流和账本披露是否充分。围绕第三方自诉资格、法庭之友角色边界、律师是否可代替上诉主张形成对立；同时IAC是否足以覆盖程序失误也被反复攻击。没收范围是高强度分裂点，争议焦点是“个人财产”与“犯罪收益”如何区分、以及Boss控制是否可直接推定所有权，并与853(n)、853(i)/remission、破产优先顺序交织。外部势力、中美关系、托雷斯节点等因素被大量并入二巡预判。上诉技术问题如vacate、emergency stay、翻案标准尚无共识，群内情绪化与身份标签化明显上升，导致讨论在证据链与叙事猜测间持续拉扯。","guide":[{"title":"美国是否可在主权争议下直接追缴：\"政治问题不审查\"的适用边界","message_ids":["q4e9529a109310c4b2fa8","qe43e12d4848cae7f2848","q7de011de8a19ed1f0438"]},{"title":"Tony与Sarah材料真伪、效力与封存状态：是否可用于定罪或削弱","message_ids":["q8feba8920f4e1acfbb25","q3ab473f2c74044540d13","q7a4207d1f8a2162db381"]},{"title":"检方资金流披露与账本透明度：入账去向和再追索范围被集中质疑","message_ids":["q828e9553c28f99ba7c90","q952c6e9aaf0e18c962d1","qf7169b871b9a8ccee1a8"]},{"title":"第三方自诉与法庭之友资格：谁能提交关键动议、谁能推动程序","message_ids":["q923c31604d4067a7bfd3","q14e6dc43a92211f1c9e5","qcf61880baf3b01628491"]},{"title":"无效辩护(IAC)与程序瑕疵：能否压倒证据与实体认定","message_ids":["q214510cf28b4c0c83fd4","q97b5f8a5ec2805a3bc3a","qca1bdf508cc33920fa2c"]},{"title":"没收范围与财产权边界：个人财产、犯罪收益、Boss控制是否等同","message_ids":["q99ec6bdc35aa2d784738","q65f5a47979711519353d","q1f5fe7591cc2f037a50c"]},{"title":"853(n)、853(i)与Remission时序：财产权主张、退赔与程序可行性的争论","message_ids":["q715addb6214364eafe90","q883d464bb37a45ea862e","q28fbb5aa0e99dc38b2cd"]},{"title":"二审技术路线：vacate、emergency stay是否改变判决后审理路径","message_ids":["qa938cbb543b620a8fd4b","q849414445c010517a6ae","q11beac99adf3c75e2849"]},{"title":"外部势力与中美政治叙事：中共、CIA及地缘时点被并入案情解读","message_ids":["qfac8ef30ef3ddf3a0d21","q1090d5ce578beec64749","qa296c4ac10f3b75e018a"]},{"title":"联盟与幕后责任归因：托洛斯/圈层与关键人物的操盘说法并存","message_ids":["qbab258659bf27ef88772","q74a7ee48ec3b1bb8b976","q56e17271f73eba117d5d"]},{"title":"社会关系与舆论博弈：身份标签与情绪化攻击削弱证据链讨论","message_ids":["q25c981af7ad722f4774c","q9359021ac248f3bcc9be","q99ac8736e8923d710cbd"]},{"title":"时间与节点推演：托雷斯事件、9/24与后续时点被当作二巡走向指标","message_ids":["qf01dda7f6b7e035ed451","qb9785c3a3715ff9f3b8b","qf9e28665ad820b947f93"]}],"closed":true,"is_finalized":true,"updated_at":"2026-09-06T19:03:28.394Z","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_batch","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139/pages/5","base_batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000139?page=5","page":5,"page_size":200,"total_pages":5,"has_more":false,"next_url":null,"prev_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000139?page=4","messages":[{"id":"q669c3d493cb6d347b6f7","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":801,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-26T08:27:03.482Z","text":"感觉现在美国法庭，政府，辩方，跟现在的灭爆像不像？面上吵得不可开交，背后都是一个老板","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q669c3d493cb6d347b6f7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qfc939182a1c13d50b66b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":802,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-07-26T08:27:08.604Z","text":"川普也是在等中期選舉結束，之後應該會真動手","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfc939182a1c13d50b66b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q39b08349119559b5d86b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":803,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T08:44:05.801Z","text":"卖版权","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbd8acbc315f183e34bdb","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q39b08349119559b5d86b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbd8acbc315f183e34bdb","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q4cd87a2e37b2655a0371","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":804,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T09:07:29.972Z","text":"可以","edited":false,"reply_to":"q39b08349119559b5d86b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4cd87a2e37b2655a0371","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q39b08349119559b5d86b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5d35ea44334185f9ec2c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":805,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T09:07:43.892Z","text":"第一次有人把桃是什么说了出来","edited":false,"reply_to":"q39b08349119559b5d86b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5d35ea44334185f9ec2c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q39b08349119559b5d86b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd6a8b235744c48afbd84","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":806,"speaker":"may***","date":"2026-07-26T11:40:15.403Z","text":"你们这个赛道不行 骗不到钱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd6a8b235744c48afbd84","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q576ad5da5af97aefe1ba","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":807,"speaker":"may***","date":"2026-07-26T11:40:32.263Z","text":"螺丝哥应该整个自诉会员群","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q576ad5da5af97aefe1ba","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q17bc261f00d26c30df8a","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":808,"speaker":"may***","date":"2026-07-26T12:03:17.412Z","text":"喜国人上辈子不知道造了什么孽 这辈子翻墙能刷到郭文贵","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q17bc261f00d26c30df8a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q304670ec13d6c1aca90a","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":809,"speaker":"Sap***","date":"2026-07-26T12:13:50.724Z","text":"很遗憾，用户 [删节：隐私信息] 离开了 **郭文贵法庭文件，不禁言不删帖**。希望他一路好走。","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q304670ec13d6c1aca90a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q4f2d872162e870ab346c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":810,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T12:23:11.287Z","text":"discord 确实可以多设备同时在线的，和微信不一样","edited":false,"reply_to":"qee05cad2d9d9497b8bd4","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4f2d872162e870ab346c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qee05cad2d9d9497b8bd4","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd0e33d207a7e939e4a4d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":811,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T12:27:30.422Z","text":"我早就发现了，不过也是在量刑后发现的，没注意到量刑前什么样","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf97b89e5c4b77ec8b7ed","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd0e33d207a7e939e4a4d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf97b89e5c4b77ec8b7ed","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q9b00b41e64de98312451","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":812,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-26T12:30:54.844Z","text":"这些帐号由夏凄东、青藤控制？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd0e33d207a7e939e4a4d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9b00b41e64de98312451","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd0e33d207a7e939e4a4d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qaac18a3090758c2f2ed6","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":813,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T13:04:12.096Z","text":"不是一回事，郭是不想要入编当CIA的正式线人，过改名换姓的日子，但是仍然免费为CIA提供情报","edited":false,"reply_to":"q92df92c17214fa11b05b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaac18a3090758c2f2ed6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q92df92c17214fa11b05b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q94f58ab7b9844a296b7e","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":814,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T13:05:06.725Z","text":"把船开走就是做傻#行为","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc721fd19b4baa01bdd86","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q94f58ab7b9844a296b7e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc721fd19b4baa01bdd86","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q13310afa242d74989c0c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":815,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T13:06:30.591Z","text":"他说过他如果正式当了CIA线人这些起诉都不会有，看来他是认为就算他不是正式线人，美国情报部门还是会保他，结果法院就是不给开CIPA","edited":false,"reply_to":"q92df92c17214fa11b05b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q13310afa242d74989c0c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q92df92c17214fa11b05b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q4daaed237a27a803965b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":816,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-26T13:19:06.035Z","text":"被9指出卖，被共产党警察国安抓铺、盘问 骚扰 的不在少数： 当时9指的凤凰农场一个至少有1万多人？ \n\n想想有多少被她出卖？ \n\n那么 除了郭律师在834 里指出的那些 被逼迫报假案 写虚假受害人陈述的， 失踪 失联的，沉默的还有很多！","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4daaed237a27a803965b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qb87eda8bb6b6c2257609","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":817,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-26T13:20:48.333Z","text":"CIPA 是不是就是共产党参与这个案件的证据？ 被逼迫报假案写虚假陈述，就是啊。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb87eda8bb6b6c2257609","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1e403ca40d1d916e7580","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":818,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-07-26T13:50:09.162Z","text":"墓碑科技转发了这份推文，他总结得棒极了！这也说明我表达的意思完全正确。这三个星期的功夫没有白费！功夫不负有心人！","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc18a443f2c78e8ac0c80","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1e403ca40d1d916e7580","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc18a443f2c78e8ac0c80","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1485e0051a49b80edf6e","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":819,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-26T13:57:59.870Z","text":"墓碑科技的推 非常有技术含量；每天必看；每次都学到好多东西。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1485e0051a49b80edf6e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa73c9a1851747804a039","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":820,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-07-26T14:19:54.579Z","text":"https://x.com/mubeitech/status/2081357855790158012?s=12&t=eXMPp66CZUFD_7vvMedcSA","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa73c9a1851747804a039","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6086965081eeca7179c2","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":821,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-26T15:11:54.991Z","text":"当时vog服务器有四万多","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4daaed237a27a803965b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6086965081eeca7179c2","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4daaed237a27a803965b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q614dc7b647ff7d6c5033","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":822,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T15:17:50.792Z","text":"应该不是 被逼报假案已经出现很多次了 cipa是其他的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb87eda8bb6b6c2257609","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q614dc7b647ff7d6c5033","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb87eda8bb6b6c2257609","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q35b0ad4bfb111284abea","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":823,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T15:26:44.253Z","text":"CIPA 会不会是美国情报部门得到了这个？                 2022年7月19日，[郭文贵的] Gettr [社交媒体] 账户发布了一份关于第11章破产案受托人的声明，称：‘请广为传播关于中共军方情报部门的内幕消息，以及关于我破产案受托人的真相。所有那些企图将我驱逐出境并加害于我的美国司法部官员及各律师事务所的律师，都将被送进监狱。’”","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q35b0ad4bfb111284abea","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf439955710e6420fa780","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":824,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T15:30:02.012Z","text":"所以那些抗议到底是谁组织的？郭已经叫停止了，还有人在组织                                                          2022年10月21日，郭文贵发表声明，要求其追随者停止抗议活动。(同上，第17页。)\n “2022年11月15日，NFSC的Gettr页面（账号为@NFSCSpeaks）发布了以下人员或机构的私人家庭住址及办公地址：第11章破产案受托人及其家属、PAG [郭文贵的债权人] 董事长及其家属、以及代表受托人和PAX公司的律师事务所。该@NFSCSpeaks帖文号召在上述地点进行为期90天的抗议活动。帖文中还包含了一些居住在所列地址的人员的照片。” (同上，第19页。)","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf439955710e6420fa780","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q3edc938afd106bc7f050","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":825,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-26T15:33:18.822Z","text":"老郭对联盟一直都是失控的，不知道他是真的无能为力还是有点请君入瓮的意思","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf439955710e6420fa780","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3edc938afd106bc7f050","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf439955710e6420fa780","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q663dacffa7d810da006d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":826,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-26T15:33:37.946Z","text":"可现在入瓮的是他自己","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q663dacffa7d810da006d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qbd12d08fc55c2cf62941","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":827,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T15:38:35.410Z","text":"他们故技重施让骚扰那个女记者，又记在郭头上，说是郭说的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbd12d08fc55c2cf62941","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q9f0dc6e14982c39d6e55","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":828,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T15:40:53.303Z","text":"这个人是谁呀？      曾与郭合作进行GTV私募但后来与其分道扬镳的某位人士（“个人2”），曾在社交媒体上表示郭误导并欺诈了其追随者。对此，郭公开将“个人2”贴上“魔鬼”和中共间谍的标签。随后，一个由郭控制的“农场”起诉了“个人2”；是SARA 魏吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9f0dc6e14982c39d6e55","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qcaa0df87e69c0135edca","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":829,"speaker":"zha***","date":"2026-07-26T15:41:43.887Z","text":"当年去抗议普恒律所的luc，也算是给reco定罪递了刀子吧","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3edc938afd106bc7f050","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcaa0df87e69c0135edca","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3edc938afd106bc7f050","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa71d60a265b101586b88","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":830,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T15:47:47.455Z","text":"加拿大有谁被打了吗？                                                             2020年11月25日，两名抗议者对该记者的一位朋友实施了人身攻击：当时该朋友倒在该记者住所外的人行道上，遭到了抗议者对其头部和颈部的反复踢踹。据公开报道，该朋友遭受了面部骨折、眼部肿胀闭合以及牙齿脱落的伤害。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa71d60a265b101586b88","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qeec0f0954d82b4ed0735","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":831,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-26T15:52:07.093Z","text":"https://x.com/TonySeruga/status/2081381771560747245?s=20","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeec0f0954d82b4ed0735","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q894ae229d71fbce0c8db","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":832,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-26T15:52:48.235Z","text":"这个案件大家看看。DOJ 故伎重演。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q894ae229d71fbce0c8db","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q9a31972ce437914a8b7b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":833,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T15:53:06.247Z","text":"他如果不认可联盟的行为就要制止和切割，他却一直在呼吁支持联盟，识蒋干用蒋干，结果被 蒋干反噬","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3edc938afd106bc7f050","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9a31972ce437914a8b7b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3edc938afd106bc7f050","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1e8eee347e67d74377fa","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":834,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-26T15:53:39.964Z","text":"应该是故意的，老郭只是个人名义反对，也没明确要求不让去","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcaa0df87e69c0135edca","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1e8eee347e67d74377fa","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcaa0df87e69c0135edca","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7a8c4ca4eed477bacefd","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":835,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-26T16:00:07.012Z","text":"上面的胖皮奥的律师事务所， 是川普前司法部部长 Bill Barr 在德州成立的。Barr 拒绝川普调查2020年被偷的大选，说2020年大选没问题。拜登时期的中情局局长Gina Gasper 就是胖皮奥推荐的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7a8c4ca4eed477bacefd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6950730824ffe39999c0","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":836,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-26T16:01:42.720Z","text":"美国司法一直被司法部玩弄于股掌，美国法庭就是个牌位，美国政府既当[屏蔽词]又立牌坊","edited":true,"reply_to":"qeec0f0954d82b4ed0735","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6950730824ffe39999c0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeec0f0954d82b4ed0735","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qdf388c3ee6f287867cc2","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":837,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T16:12:18.471Z","text":"几乎没有什么比美国更好的办法限制司法部门作恶，也许是公务员问责制，美国公务员有豁免权不用负任何责任就是荒谬，这点简直比共匪国还荒谬","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdf388c3ee6f287867cc2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q41203b9b212d76f94ac5","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":838,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T16:13:03.209Z","text":"最好的办法就是自诉把record堆起来 司法欺诈 布雷迪违规等 堆满","edited":false,"reply_to":"qdf388c3ee6f287867cc2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q41203b9b212d76f94ac5","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdf388c3ee6f287867cc2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q74ee8e5626e676449a3a","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":839,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T16:22:41.560Z","text":"我讨论的是制度怎么防止腐败的司法部门作恶😂","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q74ee8e5626e676449a3a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa71241b741a824932dbd","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":840,"speaker":"zha***","date":"2026-07-26T16:38:59.295Z","text":"蓬佩奥自己就是cia出身吧。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7a8c4ca4eed477bacefd","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa71241b741a824932dbd","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7a8c4ca4eed477bacefd","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q0fb7c6acc78241385f23","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":841,"speaker":"zha***","date":"2026-07-26T16:42:39.255Z","text":"司法假独立，类似于中国公检法被直接控制和安插。\n绝对是美国目前最大的一个bug。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q6950730824ffe39999c0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0fb7c6acc78241385f23","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6950730824ffe39999c0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2eea8fcf7f6f53d79368","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":842,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-26T16:43:24.583Z","text":"他是CIA头子","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa71241b741a824932dbd","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2eea8fcf7f6f53d79368","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa71241b741a824932dbd","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qc30fae49dcedbf21eb49","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":843,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T16:43:29.646Z","text":"这么早的搜查是为什么？                                          2019年10月，在针对郭某的另一起调查中，联邦调查局（FBI）对其位于纽约市的顶层公寓执行了搜查令。在这次经司法授权的搜查行动中，FBI查获了约252台电子设备（包括手机、硬盘、闪存盘、计算机、路由器、录音笔及录音机等）","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc30fae49dcedbf21eb49","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa920bfb79bf39af04d5e","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":844,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-26T16:44:24.850Z","text":"这次能法办几个检察官才解气","edited":false,"reply_to":"q41203b9b212d76f94ac5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa920bfb79bf39af04d5e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q41203b9b212d76f94ac5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q383b9d75ca212a83140d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":845,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-07-26T16:52:32.841Z","text":"不能，他们有豁免权，这就是连李光耀都诟病美国这个公务员豁免权","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q383b9d75ca212a83140d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6732340007998b044554","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":846,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-26T17:15:00.225Z","text":"这个豁免权是谁给的？要是宪法给的，那就是一开始就给徇私枉法留好了退路","edited":false,"reply_to":"q383b9d75ca212a83140d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6732340007998b044554","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q383b9d75ca212a83140d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2a1dd585aa8f026341f2","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":847,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T17:18:18.256Z","text":"https://x.com/ruienxiaoge3/status/2081428881031168039?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2a1dd585aa8f026341f2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qb7ebb4357d1090194ba0","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":848,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-26T17:37:08.777Z","text":"所以说， 群里有些人自己觉得不起眼的材料， 拿出来分析后， 都是给老郭翻案的有利证据之一\n\n大家继续碓材料","edited":false,"reply_to":"q41203b9b212d76f94ac5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb7ebb4357d1090194ba0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q41203b9b212d76f94ac5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5ed4f25c6bd84b8e0678","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":849,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-07-26T17:54:18.495Z","text":"如果你是二巡法官， 看了第三方自诉材料， 你会有哪些疑问？ 从案件的整体的角度来看 - 不了解共产党或者暴料革命的小白的角度","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5ed4f25c6bd84b8e0678","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q3ec29a083f023f67b4f8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":850,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-07-26T17:55:57.330Z","text":"是的。我也是一个普通吃瓜群众。螺丝哥也一样。过河的卒子可以直逼大帅，不要小看自己！拿起法律的武器保护自己和家人！维护正义，是人类生存的必需。@ [删节：成员身份]","edited":true,"reply_to":"qb7ebb4357d1090194ba0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ec29a083f023f67b4f8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb7ebb4357d1090194ba0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q91ba9ec29860c767176f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":851,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T17:56:35.669Z","text":"第一反应 最大 最直观的疑问： 辩方律师妈的死哪去了？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5ed4f25c6bd84b8e0678","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q91ba9ec29860c767176f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5ed4f25c6bd84b8e0678","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qbf813c29672e6e5b9912","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":852,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T17:57:23.576Z","text":"这案子辩方有律师吗？ 一看 有律师","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbf813c29672e6e5b9912","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q4fbce06bb105acd0c79d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":853,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-26T17:58:04.840Z","text":"第一反应就是 律师肯定没好好干活","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4fbce06bb105acd0c79d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1cf9d045228282982fa6","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":854,"speaker":"nin***","date":"2026-07-26T18:58:06.535Z","text":"参加G系列的投资人都在案件里。在案里参与造假的，参与欺骗法庭的一个跑不了！\n美国司法绝对不容忍任何一方“欺骗法庭（Fraud on the Court）”。一旦一审的谎言外壳被二巡法庭剥开，整个下游利益链条和检方合作者将面临以下四个阶段的毁灭性清算：\n\n1. 与检方共同行骗的“合作证人”：认罪协议作废，直接加重起诉\n在联邦大案中，很多下游犯罪人为了换取减刑，会选择当污点证人与检方合作（Plea Deal / Cooperation Agreement）。但所有此类协议都有一个钢铁前提：证人必须提供百分之百的真实供词（Complete Truthfulness）。 [1]\n* 协议当场撕毁：一旦二巡法院查实这些主要下游犯罪人为了转嫁责任，与检察官串谋“无中生有、迎造反事实证据”欺骗法庭，他们签署的减刑合作协议将自动宣告作废（Breach of Agreement）。\n* 联邦重罪起诉：美国司法部内部监管部门（如监察长办公室）或新指派的特别检察官，将立即对这些下游分子发起极其严重的联邦刑事起诉，包括：\n    * 联邦伪证罪（Perjury）：在联邦法庭的宣誓下公开撒谎，每项罪名可判处最高 5 年监禁。\n    * 妨碍司法公正罪（Obstruction of Justice）：蓄意编造虚假财务路径或反逻辑叙事误导陪审团，最高可判处 20 年监禁。\n    * 虚假陈述罪（False Statements to Federal Officers）：欺骗 FBI 和联邦检察官。 [1, 2]\n\n2. 下游洗钱与监守自盗者：失去“保护伞”，面临顶格重判\n一审过程中，检方为了维护其“郭文贵一人控制一切”的指控叙事，可能对下游的“黑吃黑”和自盗行为睁一只眼闭一只眼，甚至给予了较低的量刑建议（如 Yvette Wang 被判 10 年）。 [1]\n* 不再享有豁免保护：随着二巡法院推翻原判，认定下游才是真正的资金截留者与诈骗实施者，下游犯罪分子将彻底失去检方的技术性保护。\n* 指控全面升级：二巡法院在裁决书中做出的事实认定（如：钱全部在下游特定账户，且下游在被告关押期间持续行骗），具有最高级别的法律效力。政府在巨大的公众压力下，必须被迫对这些下游洗钱者和黑吃黑者启动顶格的金融诈骗、洗钱、以及跨国电信诈骗（Wire Fraud）罪名起诉，他们将直接面临 20 年至 30 年的最高刑期处罚。 [1, 2]","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1cf9d045228282982fa6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7bea5df343e6b86f2803","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":855,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-26T19:08:38.095Z","text":"那些不在美国的怎么办","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1cf9d045228282982fa6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7bea5df343e6b86f2803","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1cf9d045228282982fa6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q517150bae10bbc53908f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":856,"speaker":"nin***","date":"2026-07-26T19:11:05.412Z","text":"只要战友没造假，没偷没骗都是好战友。🙏","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7bea5df343e6b86f2803","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q517150bae10bbc53908f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7bea5df343e6b86f2803","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q4c6ff8b3de963649fc7e","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":857,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-26T19:14:37.380Z","text":"我说那些不在美国的骗子们","edited":false,"reply_to":"q517150bae10bbc53908f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4c6ff8b3de963649fc7e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q517150bae10bbc53908f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q81fb41e031c762036830","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":858,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-07-26T19:15:16.792Z","text":"他们不在意到处逃窜，只要有钱花","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q81fb41e031c762036830","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q4c120171cd7bdee2b7e5","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":859,"speaker":"nin***","date":"2026-07-26T19:24:55.693Z","text":"3. 被冻结的巨额资金与财产：主权移交，下游彻底被“断粮”\n检方在一审中提交的具体账户和具体冻结资金（共计十几亿美元的涉案池），曾被强加给被告人。 [1, 2]\n* 没收令全面转向：一旦被告人的 8.89 亿美元初步没收令（POF）被二巡法院依照 Honeycutt 判例彻底打碎，这笔目前被政府牢牢锁死在银行里的巨款，所有权将彻底跟被告人个人债务脱钩。 [1, 2]\n* 下游资产被连根拔起：由于二巡认定下游犯罪人存在自盗与洗钱，政府的资产没收部门（Asset Forfeiture Unit）会立即下达针对下游犯罪分子个人及其实体名下的全新扣押令。下游分子企图通过行骗和黑吃黑据为己有的每一分钱，都会被法庭强制剥夺。\n\n4. 目前仍在网络上冒名行骗的下游：触发跨国红色通缉与加重惩罚\n正如您之前提到的，部分下游共谋犯目前仍在外利用公共网络平台进行持续诈骗。\n* 上诉庭裁决的“催化剂”效应：二巡法官的无罪或发回重审判决，等于在法律上给这些在外行骗的下游分子下达了“官方通缉背书”。\n* 联邦大围剿：FBI 欺诈及网络犯罪科（Cyber Division）将无法再用一审的定论做挡箭牌。他们将立即联手国际刑警组织（Interpol）以及全球各大网络平台，对这些下游犯罪分子进行跨国定位、发布红色通缉令（Red Notice），并对他们正在使用的行骗社交账号进行全球范围内的物理封禁","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4c120171cd7bdee2b7e5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q194e5a2283a00cafc26f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":860,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T19:26:28.968Z","text":"检方现在起诉的，根本就不是农场主挪用资金","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4c120171cd7bdee2b7e5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q194e5a2283a00cafc26f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4c120171cd7bdee2b7e5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2383d476400c7f882957","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":861,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T19:27:06.006Z","text":"检方现在起诉的是郭文贵，你应该研究一下他们到底起诉了郭什么罪名","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2383d476400c7f882957","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q0bc81309278b2c25cf1f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":862,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T19:28:59.104Z","text":"如果以后这个案子推翻之后，重新立案起诉农场主，那是另外一件事情。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0bc81309278b2c25cf1f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q99c6f815f08992c817d2","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":863,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T19:30:59.042Z","text":"你把下游挪用资金，和郭王余搅和到一起？能翻案吗🤦‍♂️","edited":false,"reply_to":"q017248947bf0ee4b29ff","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q99c6f815f08992c817d2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q9a46fff297941ac949d9","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":864,"speaker":"nin***","date":"2026-07-26T19:34:28.411Z","text":"全在郭案里，只要是从头投资人，有一个算一个。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q99c6f815f08992c817d2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9a46fff297941ac949d9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q99c6f815f08992c817d2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q324457cd24994aaa29f7","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":865,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T19:36:00.267Z","text":"Rico郭文贵就是Rico联盟农场，就是Rico盗国贼","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q324457cd24994aaa29f7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q8b4d1b71bf1539dca751","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":866,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T19:36:10.396Z","text":"这个逻辑是从哪里来的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8b4d1b71bf1539dca751","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1fc0d1e451d5ca8fe4bc","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":867,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T19:37:00.049Z","text":"怎么就都Rico了，神经病啊？这个案子的被告是郭王余，能不能不要脑补啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1fc0d1e451d5ca8fe4bc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qcfd12a9dac4f36d84d2c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":868,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T19:40:43.270Z","text":"你顶多说联盟农场非法操纵了投资人，影响这个案子，非法抢钱，其他的和这个案子没什么关系","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcfd12a9dac4f36d84d2c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q810c2411a0ca8f21ea3d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":869,"speaker":"sug***","date":"2026-07-26T19:46:06.686Z","text":"https://x.com/simida64856090/status/2081062001019678849?s=12","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q810c2411a0ca8f21ea3d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qc049e98912876a7b602e","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":870,"speaker":"nin***","date":"2026-07-26T19:57:59.283Z","text":"它们说什么不重要，它们的行为只要触犯法律，它们就要付法律责任。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcfd12a9dac4f36d84d2c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc049e98912876a7b602e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcfd12a9dac4f36d84d2c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qece5571147c2a6d99ca6","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":871,"speaker":"zzz***","date":"2026-07-26T20:11:33.336Z","text":"這是一筆失敗的投資","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qece5571147c2a6d99ca6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd2c9754e67f50b4eae93","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":872,"speaker":"Sap***","date":"2026-07-26T20:28:09.579Z","text":"欢迎 ［用户 nin***］ 来到 **郭文贵法庭文件，不禁言不删帖**! 你可以在聊天区交流郭文贵刑事案件，畅所欲言。这里有新老联盟农场羊帮质疑帮绝对不可能给你的言论自由。不禁言不删帖，唯一要求是不要在聊天区刷屏。这里所有言论只代表发言者自己的非专业个人意见，如有任何疑虑，请咨询专业人士。\n\n各房间功能说明：\n\n想快速了解郭文贵案件 ->  法庭文件分类索引，老郭案件内容\n想学习自诉 -> 自诉pro se 说明及参考\n想骂人 -> 对骂发泄房间\n想刷屏 -> 揭发自诉陷阱","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd2c9754e67f50b4eae93","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5edbfe899c7bfaa60834","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":873,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-07-26T22:24:01.893Z","text":"彼時應該是長島說了算","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf439955710e6420fa780","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5edbfe899c7bfaa60834","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf439955710e6420fa780","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q238722b4a66095cbc98d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":874,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T23:21:31.897Z","text":"［用户 him***］ 小东老师，又洗地\n看样子，你在西班牙农场，应该捞了不少吧🤣","edited":true,"reply_to":"qcfd12a9dac4f36d84d2c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q238722b4a66095cbc98d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcfd12a9dac4f36d84d2c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd661ff39313160399407","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":875,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T23:29:28.754Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息] 又开始绕圈子了，职业病晚期啊🤣 \n农场主不洗钱，挪用，这个诈骗案，能立案吗？\n又在玩儿先有鸡再有蛋的把戏","edited":true,"reply_to":"q99c6f815f08992c817d2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd661ff39313160399407","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q99c6f815f08992c817d2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q0623a1679c5f85704a42","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":876,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T23:37:14.052Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息] 放你妈的屁\n起诉书主体是郭集团\n郭量刑时明确说了，因为王认罪，虽然郭不认，但犯罪事实仍然成立\n看来，你安小东，确实在农场捞钱了啊，不然为什么对rico那么敏感，又碰到你的g点🤣","edited":true,"reply_to":"q0bc81309278b2c25cf1f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0623a1679c5f85704a42","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0bc81309278b2c25cf1f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qc66b0a24690eb3fd7d90","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":877,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-26T23:44:11.987Z","text":"三、陪审团裁定RICO共谋成立，是否自动确立郭先生是boss——这是最关键的问题\n直接回答：不是自动确立，但在程序上形成了一个你必须正视的现实困境。\n需要把两个不同罪名分开：\n§1962(c)是实质性RICO罪，要求被告亲自\"操控或管理\"犯罪企业——这是对boss地位的直接认定。\n§1962(d)是RICO共谋罪，要求被告\"同意参与\"RICO违法行为，不要求被告本人直接操控或管理企业。根据Salinas v. United States, 522 U.S. 52 (1997)，即便某被告本人不满足Reves测试，只要他同意支持他人实施RICO违法，共谋罪就可以成立。\n郭案起诉书的核心指控是§1962(d)RICO共谋，不是§1962(c)实质性RICO罪。\n这产生了一个关键后果：陪审团裁定RICO共谋成立，在技术上证明的是\"郭先生同意参与该犯罪企业的RICO违法活动\"，而不是必然证明\"郭先生是该企业的操控者和管理者\"。Reves测试在§1962(d)共谋指控下，不是定罪的必要条件。\n四、这对你的论证的实际意义\n这个区分直接强化了你的Honeycutt论点。\n政府在没收程序中主张的金钱判决总额，建立在\"郭先生实际操控并受益于犯罪企业全部资金\"这个事实基础上。但陪审团的RICO共谋裁决，在法律上只证明了\"郭先生同意参与\"，没有独立证明\"郭先生实际控制并受益于\"每一笔具体资金。\n政府试图用RICO共谋定罪，直接推导出boss级别的没收总额，这中间存在一个证明跳跃：从\"同意参与\"到\"实际控制并受益于全部资金\"，需要额外的独立证明，而这正是Honeycutt所要求的，也是政府在本案中依赖合作证人证词而非客观资金追踪记录来填补的那个证明缺口。\n在没收程序中，你的论点可以精确表述为：RICO共谋定罪确立了被告同意参与的事实，但没有、也不能自动确立被告对犯罪企业资金的实际控制和个人受益——后者是Honeycutt框架下没收程序中必须独立证明的独立事实问题，不能从定罪本身直接推导。\n\n郭是boss是法官采信了政府的说辞而已，不是政府已经证明，陪审团没有认定郭是boss。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc66b0a24690eb3fd7d90","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1a404886d1bf4a97e6b1","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":878,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T23:52:10.853Z","text":"负法律责任，也需要有人起诉啊，只有政府有起诉权。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc049e98912876a7b602e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1a404886d1bf4a97e6b1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc049e98912876a7b602e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7931cdebd14d7f06768b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":879,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T23:53:00.624Z","text":"目前政府只想起诉郭王余，不想起诉其他人。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7931cdebd14d7f06768b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd504a41a0920ff02f9fc","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":880,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T23:53:37.017Z","text":"这个案子如果推翻之后，政府再想起诉谁，是以后的事情了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd504a41a0920ff02f9fc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q920ae50fcba78034de48","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":881,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-26T23:54:58.717Z","text":"郭被抓之后，老江阿哲等就跳出来说，抓了郭就是要搞联盟农场，Rico郭就是要Rico联盟农场，要Rico盗国贼，现在看来都是胡说八道","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q920ae50fcba78034de48","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q80314380353a58d07ae8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":882,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-07-26T23:56:17.182Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息] 明白了，你们300骨干，怕重审🤣\n不需要推翻，案子还在，钱在，人在，只是重审重新起诉\n［用户 him***］ 傻x，又暴露底牌，你在这是给群里的潜伏，维稳🤣","edited":true,"reply_to":"q1a404886d1bf4a97e6b1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q80314380353a58d07ae8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1a404886d1bf4a97e6b1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd63d6f6beaf119a8af89","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":883,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:00:36.316Z","text":"政府没收是根据陪审团做出的Rico共谋成立","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc66b0a24690eb3fd7d90","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd63d6f6beaf119a8af89","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc66b0a24690eb3fd7d90","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q3ff9b89f38d057ea344e","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":884,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:00:51.031Z","text":"没收不需要证明郭是boss","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ff9b89f38d057ea344e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qc52deb529be3cfd3ab80","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":885,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:01:08.028Z","text":"郭是boss是法官后来在量刑中做出的决定","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc52deb529be3cfd3ab80","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa053dc3d37997c49d9c5","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":886,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:01:13.754Z","text":"不是陪审团做的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa053dc3d37997c49d9c5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qaf231f66974dcb03e9bc","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":887,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:10:11.648Z","text":"你可能没有去看法条和托雷斯判词里的没收逻辑，实际上不读法条，只需常识即可知道，没收，就是没收的郭的个人财产，只有郭被认定为boss后，g系列里的投资款才成为了实质上的郭的个人财产，这些投资款，郭已经通过犯罪手段将其变成郭的个人财产，所以要没收，郭因为金钱判决负有对政府的债务，没收其个人财产来填补其债务。以你早期的发言，你是知道这个的，你就是要问，我也试着回答你。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3ff9b89f38d057ea344e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaf231f66974dcb03e9bc","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ff9b89f38d057ea344e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5fc6fb431048912a1f73","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":888,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:11:01.237Z","text":"我从来没说过没收一定要认定是郭的个人财产才可以没收","edited":false,"reply_to":"qaf231f66974dcb03e9bc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5fc6fb431048912a1f73","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaf231f66974dcb03e9bc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6474f68525f872fc25e8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":889,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:11:24.466Z","text":"没收有两个条件：1.郭的个人财产 2.犯罪资金","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6474f68525f872fc25e8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q89ff45703882fd30f6f3","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":890,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:11:39.896Z","text":"郭一直没承认这些钱是他的个人财产","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q89ff45703882fd30f6f3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7aa6066b240269e3489b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":891,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:11:42.953Z","text":"858，对郭的财产没收令，必须要证明郭是boss，政府并没有证明，只是王的认罪和指任，政府引用，法庭采信。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7aa6066b240269e3489b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf9258fbb05d414bebc7a","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":892,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:11:49.912Z","text":"所以政府是按照犯罪资金没收的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf9258fbb05d414bebc7a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q75b3205c10fd10180695","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":893,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:13:02.388Z","text":"再去看我上面论述的逻辑。什么叫所得，就是变成个人财产了才叫所得，没有变成个人财产就不叫所得。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf9258fbb05d414bebc7a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q75b3205c10fd10180695","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf9258fbb05d414bebc7a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q99ec6bdc35aa2d784738","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":894,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:13:24.355Z","text":"郭如果承认那是他的个人财产，那跟认罪没什么两样。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q99ec6bdc35aa2d784738","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q65f5a47979711519353d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":895,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:13:55.131Z","text":"郭是boss，不等于这些钱是他的财产","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q65f5a47979711519353d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q9f59567b64e6c52e3138","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":896,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:14:12.551Z","text":"郭是boss的意思是他对人事物和决定有控制权","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9f59567b64e6c52e3138","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q38d8ceccd022e6c6f56c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":897,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:14:17.441Z","text":"不要搞混了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q38d8ceccd022e6c6f56c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1f5fe7591cc2f037a50c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":898,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:14:18.826Z","text":"并且证明郭是boss，只是必要条件，不是充分条件。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7aa6066b240269e3489b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1f5fe7591cc2f037a50c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7aa6066b240269e3489b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q897548801b604a64b509","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":899,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:15:25.826Z","text":"你还在做什么白日梦 政府没收犯罪资金 不管法律允不允许 一旦碰了这个红线 就触发了灾难性的后果 中国政府明确有钱在里面。 而一旦没收中国政府的钱，说明你这个案子托雷斯根本没裁量权审理，从第一天审理就是越权 ［用户 him***］","edited":true,"reply_to":"q75b3205c10fd10180695","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q897548801b604a64b509","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q75b3205c10fd10180695","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qee4573e768987edafc23","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":900,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:16:02.148Z","text":"一、Boss认定不是把投资款“变更登记”为郭的个人财产\n托雷斯法官并没有裁定：所有G系列公司的银行账户和投资款，在普通公司法、信托法或财产权意义上都由公司财产自动转化成郭的个人财产。\n她实际裁定的是：\n郭控制所有G Enterprise实体及其资产；\n郭能够决定资金如何使用；\n郭从这些资金中受益；\n因而这些资金在刑事没收意义上属于郭直接或间接“obtained”的犯罪收益。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1f5fe7591cc2f037a50c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qee4573e768987edafc23","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1f5fe7591cc2f037a50c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q57f1c00d352fc3a39c50","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":901,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:16:19.128Z","text":"你不要搞混了，郭是boss，且政府的起诉书只有一个boss，政府主张一切由郭主导，法庭才采信政府主张：进入犯罪企业的资金，全部都是郭造成的损失。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q38d8ceccd022e6c6f56c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q57f1c00d352fc3a39c50","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q38d8ceccd022e6c6f56c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5fc9e73eae265168603c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":902,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:16:34.047Z","text":"判词明确依赖“控制”和“受益”，并以郭指示使用G Club或其他公司资金购买个人物品等证据，区别于Honeycutt中那个既不控制企业、也不分享利润的受薪\n因此，更准确的法律表达不是“投资款变成了郭的个人财产”，而是：\n法院将这些实体名下的资金，在刑事没收归责上认定为郭本人直接或间接取得、控制并受益的犯罪收益。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5fc9e73eae265168603c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qb2a17d41956c5e678a79","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":903,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:16:46.671Z","text":"［用户 him***］  无论郭是不是boss 没收都是严重违法 不用讨论了","edited":true,"reply_to":"q57f1c00d352fc3a39c50","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb2a17d41956c5e678a79","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q57f1c00d352fc3a39c50","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q05f26d5abdeda5d02329","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":904,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:17:02.700Z","text":"你只要敢没收 你就碰到红线","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q05f26d5abdeda5d02329","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6de63301ba5350e6ed5c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":905,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:18:04.496Z","text":"托雷斯法官的没收逻辑是：法院首先依据优势证据认定郭先生是实际控制G Enterprise各实体及其资产的“Boss”，并认定他能够支配相关资金且从中受益。正是基于这一控制和受益认定，法院才进一步将进入Farm Loan Program、G Clubs和Himalaya Exchange的有关资金视为郭先生本人直接或间接取得的犯罪收益，并据此对郭先生个人作出8.89亿美元的刑事没收金钱判决。\n因此，严格地说，并不是“Boss”身份在普通财产权意义上自动把所有G系列投资款转化为郭先生的个人财产，而是法院通过“Boss—全面控制—实际受益”这一事实链条，在刑事没收意义上将这些实体名下的资金归责为郭先生本人取得或控制的犯罪收益。\n该金钱判决构成郭先生个人的刑事没收义务。具体财产经过最终没收并解决第三方权利后，其价值将用于抵扣该金钱判决；如果原犯罪收益已经转移、耗散或无法取得，政府还可在符合法定条件时追索郭先生的替代财产。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6de63301ba5350e6ed5c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q318021d35257af5388b9","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":906,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:19:05.544Z","text":"你的理论有一定道理，但已经定罪了，就是另一回事。没有郭不是boss的证据，能不能过无害错误测试都不好说，发回重审一样给你定罪。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb2a17d41956c5e678a79","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q318021d35257af5388b9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb2a17d41956c5e678a79","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qff39d491e46211adf4f5","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":907,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:19:32.498Z","text":"这不是无害错误 这是违宪错误","edited":false,"reply_to":"q318021d35257af5388b9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qff39d491e46211adf4f5","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q318021d35257af5388b9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q8f3f509d971ee49632a3","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":908,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:19:50.145Z","text":"这个案子，如果想翻案，纠结细节是没有用的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q318021d35257af5388b9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8f3f509d971ee49632a3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q318021d35257af5388b9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q139e712fe6c714b1a60c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":909,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:20:36.187Z","text":"再去理解一下什么叫rico。然后再去分辨一下§1962(c)和§1962(d)。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qee4573e768987edafc23","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q139e712fe6c714b1a60c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qee4573e768987edafc23","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2f1dc3c0e2911f7c832c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":910,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:20:45.979Z","text":"这个案子要翻案，就是重大程序不正义，重大新证据","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2f1dc3c0e2911f7c832c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qe05cd2a17cb7a56cb8ce","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":911,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:21:28.440Z","text":"［用户 reb***］  对于政府主权竞争性claim 你不exercise你的裁量权 就是滥用裁量权 这在二巡有判例。 托雷斯看到tony的动议 一不上传 二不研究 自己有没有裁量权都不知道 直冲量刑30年 这是严重违宪 滥用裁量权 全案撤销","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe05cd2a17cb7a56cb8ce","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2b91f07cd1dfeb103594","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":912,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:21:32.488Z","text":"郭都说了，翻案就是：1. 证人出来翻供 2.中共陷害他的文件出来 3.程序不正义","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2b91f07cd1dfeb103594","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qdae751791eed6ecc1569","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":913,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:21:55.886Z","text":"其他的细节那些，啥用没有","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdae751791eed6ecc1569","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q79bd2a891dd7cd473273","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":914,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:22:16.742Z","text":"就算抓批准时用了伪证，如果证明被告有罪的核心证据推不翻，都可以被认定为无害错误。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qff39d491e46211adf4f5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q79bd2a891dd7cd473273","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qff39d491e46211adf4f5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q92a9e9960f26d7d47529","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":915,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:22:46.439Z","text":"根本不用去推翻核心证据","edited":false,"reply_to":"q79bd2a891dd7cd473273","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q92a9e9960f26d7d47529","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q79bd2a891dd7cd473273","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qb654eb71794d59eb170f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":916,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:23:14.102Z","text":"核心证据可以存在的前提下是你诉讼结构是正确的 法官有权审理这个案子","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb654eb71794d59eb170f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1b070eb9c2a8937fb579","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":917,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:23:27.684Z","text":"当结构性错误","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1b070eb9c2a8937fb579","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q9e71a8ac0b21c3347a06","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":918,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:23:35.785Z","text":"什么证据全都没用","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9e71a8ac0b21c3347a06","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q4dc51cf59835a07f2a28","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":919,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:23:48.369Z","text":"如果按照螺丝哥说的，这个案子的目的是灭共，那就是如果有被中共抓捕的人，可以提交证据。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4dc51cf59835a07f2a28","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q67025eb87f91f4617152","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":920,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:23:56.104Z","text":"是这样，但这里面的因素不仅仅是主权冲突，tony 的卷宗，可以是主权冲突，可以是新证据发现，可以是量刑的基础事实不牢固。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe05cd2a17cb7a56cb8ce","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q67025eb87f91f4617152","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe05cd2a17cb7a56cb8ce","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q3112b85a9d5a3c751107","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":921,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:24:01.855Z","text":"其他的乱七八糟的细节，啥用没有","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3112b85a9d5a3c751107","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd6163a6dc46f75a288cb","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":922,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:24:08.339Z","text":"量刑就更别提了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q67025eb87f91f4617152","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd6163a6dc46f75a288cb","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q67025eb87f91f4617152","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q88791c7531a23cd30eb0","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":923,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:24:19.767Z","text":"tony的上去了 你这个案子 托雷斯就没资格审","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q88791c7531a23cd30eb0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd1c6f873cc0c6e17f976","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":924,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:24:25.700Z","text":"那就重新起诉。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q92a9e9960f26d7d47529","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd1c6f873cc0c6e17f976","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q92a9e9960f26d7d47529","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q96670382eb9f99f8d340","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":925,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:25:48.822Z","text":"找到政府不能被视为无害错误的造假的核心证据，证明无罪的核心证据，这不是细节，是核心，不要混为一谈。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q96670382eb9f99f8d340","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qb56526e1b3632d16db43","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":926,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:26:17.086Z","text":"这个案子要想翻案，绝对不是纠结这些事情可以翻案的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q96670382eb9f99f8d340","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb56526e1b3632d16db43","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q96670382eb9f99f8d340","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1f061dc903cdf2ef8197","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":927,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:26:31.151Z","text":"当然你愿意讨论也可以","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1f061dc903cdf2ef8197","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6c1ea32479ee1711d2bb","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":928,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:27:12.808Z","text":"如果螺丝哥猜的是对的，这个案子翻案之前，灭共的证据要上法庭","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6c1ea32479ee1711d2bb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7a753bc3e44dcc6881f1","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":929,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:28:19.792Z","text":"现在被定罪，必须自己主动证明无罪，或者证明政府和地区法院在定罪的过程有过不了无害错误测试的程序问题和法律适用错误。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb56526e1b3632d16db43","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7a753bc3e44dcc6881f1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb56526e1b3632d16db43","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qbb160d36d2c82767056c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":930,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:28:25.227Z","text":"［用户 him***］  这就是himam 最阴险的一招。 每一次我们讨论重大问题的时候 himam就祭出法宝： 程序不正义 推翻案件 来阻止你们有效交流 ［用户 reb***］","edited":true,"reply_to":"q6c1ea32479ee1711d2bb","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbb160d36d2c82767056c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6c1ea32479ee1711d2bb","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd719bb82e93d010d4b1e","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":931,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:28:50.839Z","text":"而且它非常气愤","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd719bb82e93d010d4b1e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qcf5d7f76f13d35998b13","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":932,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:28:55.209Z","text":"辩方量刑提出了50个细节问题，托雷斯还是判了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7a753bc3e44dcc6881f1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcf5d7f76f13d35998b13","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7a753bc3e44dcc6881f1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5864b127d92a82fff56f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":933,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:29:11.704Z","text":"辩方提的问题，都是对的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5864b127d92a82fff56f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2ddc1054f3f0a1e677d8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":934,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:29:24.696Z","text":"但是没用","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2ddc1054f3f0a1e677d8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q618a848673cdd104ae90","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":935,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:29:38.427Z","text":"如果你的目的是提出问题，可以提","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q618a848673cdd104ae90","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7495261062661321a450","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":936,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:29:58.555Z","text":"如果你的目的是翻案，那必须有重大新证据，或者重大程序不正义","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7495261062661321a450","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q428be6614ac70db42ca5","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":937,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:30:19.104Z","text":"一一你不拿证据，只是凭嘴说，当然会这样。当然托雷斯是什么样子你也知道，用程序堵死了你呈现有力证据。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qcf5d7f76f13d35998b13","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q428be6614ac70db42ca5","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcf5d7f76f13d35998b13","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q3211bf41bba1b724c322","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":938,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:31:00.938Z","text":"现在案子已经在二巡了，第三方除了拿出灭共的证据，其他的也干不了什么了。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q428be6614ac70db42ca5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3211bf41bba1b724c322","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q428be6614ac70db42ca5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6bac62d0817fe2301419","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":939,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:31:30.707Z","text":"只要还没有指鹿为马的张口就来，一一驳倒即可。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbb160d36d2c82767056c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6bac62d0817fe2301419","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbb160d36d2c82767056c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q9086f7ec30c3f321c717","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":940,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:31:40.983Z","text":"从第三方自己的利益角度讲，可以让检方调查一下同案犯","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9086f7ec30c3f321c717","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q37d064752908714296e8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":941,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:32:06.680Z","text":"但是第三方只有建议权，检方也许不听你的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q37d064752908714296e8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q57269b090fa668777256","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":942,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:32:53.293Z","text":"［用户 him***］ 我帮你重新说一下： 第三方只有建议权 只能谈钱 千万别翻案 别翻没收 别翻量刑 求求你们了","edited":true,"reply_to":"q37d064752908714296e8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q57269b090fa668777256","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q37d064752908714296e8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q9e1fb3efbce1f0eac76f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":943,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:36:28.758Z","text":"真正对证明无罪有帮助的，是投资款与郭家族基金的钱，没有混同的证据。现在定罪后，只要一混同，就算你花的是自己的钱，也给你算成是花了投资者的钱。只要资金隔离的证据拿出来，不仅证明资金没有混同，没有诈骗意图，同时证明政府就是恶意起诉，因为你政府调查了那么多年，制作出了资金流图，不可能不知道财产已经隔离，但你就是选择性呈现，这就是恶意起诉。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9e1fb3efbce1f0eac76f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q993eda66d0a675fa0048","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":944,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:36:55.729Z","text":"研究这个 没啥用","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9e1fb3efbce1f0eac76f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q993eda66d0a675fa0048","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9e1fb3efbce1f0eac76f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa355383b91c5735ababd","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":945,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:37:13.559Z","text":"因为你研究这个 研究不过他们","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa355383b91c5735ababd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qca1123f224ea55d4672b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":946,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:37:20.926Z","text":"他们研究这个比你厉害","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qca1123f224ea55d4672b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q35c218cbab7338ccc598","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":947,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:37:54.159Z","text":"不需要厉害不厉害，就是看有没有。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q993eda66d0a675fa0048","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q35c218cbab7338ccc598","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q993eda66d0a675fa0048","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd8575b3ff70c881ff3a0","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":948,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:37:54.250Z","text":"你来定战场","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd8575b3ff70c881ff3a0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd3ac3bfc91831c51d2a3","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":949,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:38:14.271Z","text":"你说没有 他说有 你也没办法","edited":false,"reply_to":"q35c218cbab7338ccc598","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd3ac3bfc91831c51d2a3","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q35c218cbab7338ccc598","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qb801b8446febefd98a56","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":950,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:38:40.046Z","text":"但你说： 你根本没资格说有没有","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb801b8446febefd98a56","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf91205ab1014eaa473b8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":951,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:38:43.856Z","text":"这才行","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf91205ab1014eaa473b8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q45b545d6b5abaac3b561","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":952,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:38:59.701Z","text":"他得证明他有这个资格","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q45b545d6b5abaac3b561","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q728719b1930f05adeb7f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":953,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:39:12.119Z","text":"有没有罪，是看事实。事情发生在过去，事实到底是怎样，只要正当程序下呈现出的证据，才能尽可能反映事实。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q728719b1930f05adeb7f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q424ed341931015a59759","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":954,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:39:20.288Z","text":"不看事实","edited":false,"reply_to":"q728719b1930f05adeb7f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q424ed341931015a59759","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q728719b1930f05adeb7f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qc429fff9f77f641b1434","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":955,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:39:27.651Z","text":"辛普森案看的就不是事实","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc429fff9f77f641b1434","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6124f6bab125916a82d0","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":956,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:39:43.777Z","text":"看事实郭案一万年都翻不了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6124f6bab125916a82d0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5c64dff86355f98a4fa9","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":957,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:40:10.778Z","text":"事实就算郭真的没诈骗 你扣事实也不可能翻案","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5c64dff86355f98a4fa9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf2f586fdb1edc6fe6c70","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":958,"speaker":"mia***","date":"2026-07-27T00:40:21.160Z","text":"你把CVRA救济权当成什么了？这是程序性问题影响郭案程序正不正义，审判过程中不断违规损害第三方权益，就造成了郭案不能定罪量刑。建议权,用你的853恳请检方留口汤是吧","edited":false,"reply_to":"q37d064752908714296e8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf2f586fdb1edc6fe6c70","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q37d064752908714296e8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1493dc437e0767795297","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":959,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:40:48.613Z","text":"［用户 reb***］  最简单的问题 现在陪审团定罪了","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1493dc437e0767795297","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q875527e05e2709905707","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":960,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:40:52.312Z","text":"量刑结束了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q875527e05e2709905707","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qce5ff6f2f79cddec10e9","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":961,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:40:55.811Z","text":"上诉不审查事实","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qce5ff6f2f79cddec10e9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q143f5383692d1740300c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":962,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:41:16.309Z","text":"就算事实郭文贵真的没骗 谈事实也没用了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q143f5383692d1740300c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q4cb63b7e03c64967b59b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":963,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:41:48.319Z","text":"你只能谈 你有没有权定这个事实","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4cb63b7e03c64967b59b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qb2a18ffd2e001fd9ac63","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":964,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:41:57.087Z","text":"你是不是根本无权开启这个案子","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb2a18ffd2e001fd9ac63","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa77c4383a540c61e40aa","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":965,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:42:00.854Z","text":"这才行","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa77c4383a540c61e40aa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qb8464c78bd07aad142b8","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":966,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:42:02.001Z","text":"那个案件是证据呈现的问题，违规获得的证据被排除后，陪审团裁定无罪。程序问题，最终还是落实落实到证据呈现，程序有问题，是重新呈现和排除证据的入口。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc429fff9f77f641b1434","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb8464c78bd07aad142b8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc429fff9f77f641b1434","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qc35c0ad69284521214cd","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":967,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:42:19.273Z","text":"Cvra是附属权利","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf2f586fdb1edc6fe6c70","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc35c0ad69284521214cd","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf2f586fdb1edc6fe6c70","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf906f1d266be2caeae7e","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":968,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:42:36.538Z","text":"翻案一定是被告和被告律师主导的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf906f1d266be2caeae7e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf24c52b47741e1a81c59","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":969,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:42:41.056Z","text":"我一直这么说","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf24c52b47741e1a81c59","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q7f026873930b7bba3b0d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":970,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:43:09.424Z","text":"对 辛普森是证据呈现  因为那是定罪前 现在郭不止定罪 量刑都结束了 研究证据 都已无意义了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb8464c78bd07aad142b8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7f026873930b7bba3b0d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb8464c78bd07aad142b8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q83f59f409d4b7b20e9dc","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":971,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:43:11.158Z","text":"你要证明程序有问题，还是要拿出证据。账本，就是证明检方恶意呈现资金流的证据。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q143f5383692d1740300c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q83f59f409d4b7b20e9dc","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q143f5383692d1740300c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q513ce0d6b2783bded8ad","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":972,"speaker":"mia***","date":"2026-07-27T00:43:49.280Z","text":"第三方有权主导撤销量刑重审保护第三方利益","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf906f1d266be2caeae7e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q513ce0d6b2783bded8ad","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf906f1d266be2caeae7e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2d607478ecf391f3d993","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":973,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:44:05.036Z","text":"资金流证据在上诉阶段已经不是什么重要证据了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q83f59f409d4b7b20e9dc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2d607478ecf391f3d993","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q83f59f409d4b7b20e9dc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa3718ec9405c2a236ee5","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":974,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:44:32.341Z","text":"就算你把每一分钱 都展现 检方说 那都是听郭的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa3718ec9405c2a236ee5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q0b3285050755a5d28b09","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":975,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:44:47.007Z","text":"维持原判","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0b3285050755a5d28b09","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q0e67b562f84d93bd3ccb","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":976,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:44:51.272Z","text":"没用的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0e67b562f84d93bd3ccb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qbcdb968ec51ee61945bc","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":977,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:45:04.688Z","text":"是否发回重审，是否直接无罪，还是要看证据，tony主张托雷斯无权审理，那也是因为有中共卷宗，不是tony张口就来说政府有程序问题，地区法院滥用裁量就行。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7f026873930b7bba3b0d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbcdb968ec51ee61945bc","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7f026873930b7bba3b0d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q57a9a267d4ca568b3880","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":978,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-07-27T00:45:17.610Z","text":"那我就看着你们[删节：成员身份]成真","edited":true,"reply_to":"q513ce0d6b2783bded8ad","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q57a9a267d4ca568b3880","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q513ce0d6b2783bded8ad","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q6385d4331c40463c5279","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":979,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:45:32.827Z","text":"［用户 mia***］  你这说的非常对","edited":true,"reply_to":"q513ce0d6b2783bded8ad","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6385d4331c40463c5279","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q513ce0d6b2783bded8ad","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q5fcf0e7889c0fd3cdc00","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":980,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:46:27.464Z","text":"［用户 mia***］  为了保护第三方利益  或者 更进一步 保证article 3 的司法权的integrity 第三方当然有权推翻案件 ［用户 him***］ 法盲 好好学学吧","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5fcf0e7889c0fd3cdc00","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qcab7b3bd7de78db24f7d","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":981,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:47:14.903Z","text":"现在南区最终大的程序问题 是僭越二巡权利 侮辱二巡","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbcdb968ec51ee61945bc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcab7b3bd7de78db24f7d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbcdb968ec51ee61945bc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qa3b5f06e8b7f1b23c078","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":982,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:47:28.350Z","text":"其他的 和这个比 都是毛毛雨","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa3b5f06e8b7f1b23c078","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q03503d72367f5d425e7e","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":983,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:47:39.347Z","text":"在二巡展现的目的，不是为了证明应该由地区法院裁决的事实，而是为了证明政府的恶意隐瞒布雷迪违规。这个过程在南区应该有，但由于政府隐瞒，导致辩方没有呈现给陪审团。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qa3718ec9405c2a236ee5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q03503d72367f5d425e7e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa3718ec9405c2a236ee5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q44d0f611e402894ee347","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":984,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:48:01.377Z","text":"这个是律师打的 第三方打这个 不太好打","edited":false,"reply_to":"q03503d72367f5d425e7e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q44d0f611e402894ee347","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q03503d72367f5d425e7e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q622e3d7506ca03dc7b9b","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":985,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:48:40.773Z","text":"你们一定要搞清楚一个东西 律师翻案和第三方翻案 根本不是一回事","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q622e3d7506ca03dc7b9b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q1fdd09b15f3bbfc0016c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":986,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:49:21.997Z","text":"第三方能做的，就是用法条赋予的权利，去呈现事实，手里有多少有力证据，能否用出来，那要看个人本领和运气。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q44d0f611e402894ee347","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1fdd09b15f3bbfc0016c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q44d0f611e402894ee347","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qd193819c8408dc0c3024","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":987,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:50:11.560Z","text":"扣细节和事实 是律师上诉做的","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1fdd09b15f3bbfc0016c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd193819c8408dc0c3024","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1fdd09b15f3bbfc0016c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qb0294106176bf64cafde","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":988,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:50:31.900Z","text":"第三方翻案 要把问题再上升一个台阶","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb0294106176bf64cafde","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q09b6a28e1e1e61f3a454","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":989,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:51:00.378Z","text":"比如： 你连审理的资格都没有","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q09b6a28e1e1e61f3a454","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qbd4c4e8d2da76a891257","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":990,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:51:15.736Z","text":"你种族歧视 第14修正案违反","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbd4c4e8d2da76a891257","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qde13c219080e214a0071","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":991,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:51:30.504Z","text":"你司法欺诈 误导陪审团","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qde13c219080e214a0071","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q0b64d99cf4874eae7689","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":992,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:51:37.917Z","text":"你系统性陷害受害者","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0b64d99cf4874eae7689","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qbcfbc961ffe9add5246f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":993,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-07-27T00:51:43.511Z","text":"我是在讨论被告可能途径，其实有很多，sec那里的有利证据，破产法庭那里的违法手段制造的法律事实，政府的违规，托雷斯的任性，中共的破坏，多的是。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbcfbc961ffe9add5246f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q2b175cc88ee3db4f8f66","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":994,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:53:09.130Z","text":"这些都是交给律师去做 然而郭案律师一直都有一个问题","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbcfbc961ffe9add5246f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2b175cc88ee3db4f8f66","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbcfbc961ffe9add5246f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf636c7aad19fee9fa68c","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":995,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:53:13.173Z","text":"就是不干活","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf636c7aad19fee9fa68c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qf2917005e55abe3e386f","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":996,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:53:21.707Z","text":"你敢指望上诉律师一定干活吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf2917005e55abe3e386f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q3ea94d4f108020db1da4","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":997,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:54:26.194Z","text":"假设 律师有问题，你打这些 二巡肯定不会理，顶多说等辩方律师来打，然后律师来了 也不会用你的东西 所以是白打","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ea94d4f108020db1da4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qb0e1de2d8d264209ff74","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":998,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:54:41.185Z","text":"假设 律师没问题 也用不着你打了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb0e1de2d8d264209ff74","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"qe6a2f72bd1034b6edfc7","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":999,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:55:28.594Z","text":"所以 打这些就是这个结果","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe6a2f72bd1034b6edfc7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"},{"id":"q62b9ab46075ebd091886","batch_id":"batch-000139","seq":1000,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-07-27T00:55:32.530Z","text":"我早就算过了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q62b9ab46075ebd091886","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000139"}],"prev_batch_id":"batch-000138","next_batch_id":"batch-000140"}