{"id":"batch-000146","number":146,"revision":3,"date_start":"2026-08-15T03:10:05.356Z","date_end":"2026-08-19T11:13:09.216Z","total_messages":903,"summary_en":"Community discussion, batch 146 (Aug 15, 2026 – Aug 19, 2026), 903 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. From Aug 15–19, 2026, participants debated how criminal, bankruptcy, and appeal procedures in case 26-1853 could be coordinated, with recurring conflict over private-prosecution mechanics, service deadlines, and whether forfeiture can align with restitution and recovery timing. They repeatedly challenged whether bankruptcy creditors and criminal victims are legally identical, referencing 5739, case 870, FRAP 10(e), and Torres’ ECF 691 to argue about asset boundaries and appellate strategy under unresolved facts. Community statements, not court findings.","guide_en":[{"title":"Procedural Eligibility Dispute: Private Prosecution Qualification, Judicial Appointment, CVRA Scope","description":"Participants claim the thread hinges on who is procedurally eligible in self-prosecution and whether CVRA-related effects can be invoked, with competing views on whether the process is effectively privately arranged versus formally regulated. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q9c28841e36656fd1b07a","q9b895cc18d783b79c0e9","qf80a1e1dcb5c835c27e3"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q9c28841e36656fd1b07a","summary_en":"A participant claims that private prosecution requires the complainant to engage or effectively hire the judicial process directly, rather than relying on normal court-driven initiation, and frames it as self-managed. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q9b895cc18d783b79c0e9","summary_en":"A participant claims the filing must be served into the defendant’s own hands. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qf80a1e1dcb5c835c27e3","summary_en":"A participant claims they asked the judge for permission to serve process through social channels such as Discord or WS to the defendant. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Service Compliance Controversy: Direct Service, 120-Day Rule, and Social-Media Alternatives","description":"Participants dispute service compliance rules, arguing over strict personal delivery versus socially mediated delivery, while separately citing a 120-day timeframe as potentially controlling for notice. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q928fe53c48e39204182e","q13f4c48f8b6570b70f69","qa906f48292761c0a42b8"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q928fe53c48e39204182e","summary_en":"A participant claims that serving process should be done directly to the defendant. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q13f4c48f8b6570b70f69","summary_en":"A participant claims they sought court approval to use social media channels like Discord or WS for delivering a filing to the defendant. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qa906f48292761c0a42b8","summary_en":"A participant claims regulations require that the filing be delivered to the defendant within 120 days. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Bankruptcy-Criminal Interface: Receivership, Creditor Scope, and Victim Boundaries","description":"Participants claim the two systems are being overgeneralized as separate, while also disputing whether evidence already shows overlap in asset claims and legal characterization across criminal and bankruptcy tracks. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q613df2b815ddc6e9cca2","qa2994849001dc99aac81","q170ccb92e28f300f9a46"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q613df2b815ddc6e9cca2","summary_en":"A participant claims criminal case forfeiture cannot be applied to the G-series and that Luc has no qualification to enter the criminal case track. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qa2994849001dc99aac81","summary_en":"A participant claims Tony’s involvement means the bankruptcy case cannot be folded into the criminal case, arguing that view should not be blurred. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q170ccb92e28f300f9a46","summary_en":"A participant claims the 5739 settlement evidence shows a mixed legal landscape in which a trustee as bankruptcy creditor representative and the government as criminal-victim representative have long contested assets, with references to 2023 claims notices, 2025 forfeiture-stage communications, Torres’ ECF 691, and the potential use of ancillary proceedings under §853(n)/Rule 32.2(c). Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Forfeiture and Fund Destination Debate: 1.4 Billion Split, Priority, and Liability Allocation","description":"Participants dispute tactical claims about value preservation, with some asserting a practical split of funds between bankruptcy creditors and criminal victims and others hinting at self-protective disposition of tainted assets. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q38044594a2212d8b9e2a","q632671671594803b5b0c"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q38044594a2212d8b9e2a","summary_en":"A participant claims that self-protection can involve disposing of suspect assets, framed with contemptuous language in the post. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q632671671594803b5b0c","summary_en":"A participant claims that funds are being allocated across two lanes—bankruptcy creditors and criminal victims—to secure priority over 1.4 billion. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Second-Review and Appeal Path: CIPA, Stay/Vacate, and Remand Strategy","description":"Participants dispute appeal mechanics by arguing CIPA’s role, the pressure of reasoned denials, and whether post-judgment materials can be used in the 26-1853 appeal without procedural overreach. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qd560b6d0c6a8aac21d13","qd96a3dd52603e55e9268","q01b5325bc0b39dff8421"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qd560b6d0c6a8aac21d13","summary_en":"A participant claims CIPA is effectively under Torres and characterizes that as a central constraint point. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qd96a3dd52603e55e9268","summary_en":"A participant claims any judicial action requires a stated rationale, and that even a direct denial would create substantial pressure on the mover. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q01b5325bc0b39dff8421","summary_en":"A participant claims that 5739 is post-judgment as of Aug 18, 2026, and therefore cannot simply be inserted into the original appeal record, pointing to FRAP 10(e) and Rule 10 limits while suggesting motions like judicial notice or supplemental authority instead. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Evidence Reliability and External Sources: Screenshots, Links, and Redactions","description":"Participants dispute source credibility by arguing that screenshots and social links are often unverifiable, and some challenge whether shared snippets can be trusted without full context. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q4bdeb87b0cb662a5e76d","qf40aec47a2ac018f3f59","qbdf26210bfdc34823aed"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q4bdeb87b0cb662a5e76d","summary_en":"A participant shares a Gettr link as support material, signaling reliance on external-source evidence. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qf40aec47a2ac018f3f59","summary_en":"A participant shares an X link as additional external evidence, reinforcing a multi-source narrative but not independently verifying authenticity. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qbdf26210bfdc34823aed","summary_en":"A participant claims skepticism by suggesting key actor qmay may not even be reading core material. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"5739 and Third-Party Dispute: No Third-Party Beneficiaries and Ancillary-Relief Meaning","description":"Participants claim 5739 is used to rebut a blanket ownership narrative, especially by invoking its no-third-party-beneficiary clause and distinctions between restitution and estate distribution, while contesting whether it can be treated as automatic entitlement evidence. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qbf82c54abc571f6a4e68","q01b5325bc0b39dff8421","q170ccb92e28f300f9a46"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qbf82c54abc571f6a4e68","summary_en":"A participant claims 5739’s ‘No Third-Party Beneficiaries’ language does not create repayment rights for others but does lock in an asset-boundary framework between government, Luc, criminal forfeiture, and bankruptcy estate, and argues this undermines a simple ‘all funds are Guo’s criminal proceeds’ claim. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q01b5325bc0b39dff8421","summary_en":"A participant claims 5739’s timing as post-judgment means it needs tailored appellate handling under FRAP 10(e) and Rule 10 instead of simple appendix inclusion. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q170ccb92e28f300f9a46","summary_en":"A participant claims 5739 supports a stronger argument that criminal and bankruptcy groups are distinct legal categories, while also showing Luc and the government kept active ties through asset disputes and global settlement, including references to 2025 forfeiture communications and Torres’ ECF 691. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Core Evidence Matching: Person- and Money-Level Comparison Across Proceedings","description":"Participants contend that resolution requires transactional matching of the same individuals and amounts across criminal and bankruptcy records, rather than relying on broad narratives of guilt or victimhood. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q925867baff6380cd1526","q187304f6134e779ae45d","q72d503c5b733faeeeb84"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q925867baff6380cd1526","summary_en":"A participant claims a single person must be separated into reporter, criminal victim, and bankruptcy creditor roles when objections about false claims and obstruction are involved. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q187304f6134e779ae45d","summary_en":"A participant claims that if an original criminal complainant also filed bankruptcy proof of claim and that claim was deemed fraudulent or obstruction-related, the overlap between reporting status and claim status becomes a direct contradiction to explain. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q72d503c5b733faeeeb84","summary_en":"A participant argues for a four-step cross-check—bankruptcy claim entry, false/fraud characterization, later victim/loss use in criminal proceedings, and retention or disclosure of Luc/Trustee investigative data—while noting that knowingly false proofs of claim are criminalized under 18 U.S.C. §152(4) and that a materially discrepant but partially overlapping claim could still be partially valid. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Identity and Communication Narrative Conflict: Source Credibility, Calls, and Organizational Ties","description":"Participants dispute speaker credibility and communication provenance, contending that invocation of CVRA and selective calls affects narrative trust more than verified attribution of the messages. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q8aba043d2c6231c2701b","q54c98a49592ce3cc2bd4","q114f2216e9b713945a4c"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q8aba043d2c6231c2701b","summary_en":"A participant claims CVRA references are being weaponized against Guo and uses mockery to dispute another participant’s legal authority. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q54c98a49592ce3cc2bd4","summary_en":"A participant indicates a call finally happened, using a casual reaction that frames it as a notable communication event. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q114f2216e9b713945a4c","summary_en":"A participant claims the call details lacked disclosed recipient information. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Expected Outcomes and Realistic Relief: Victory, Recovery Gaps, and Representation Legitimacy","description":"Participants dispute whether legal success translates into actual repayment, while questioning missing-money figures, potential diversion of funds, and who has legitimate standing to speak or claim losses. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q4c5c8f825b5505178a61","q3488e56de165bdbcd51b","qde2e1b4ca8e239cff740"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q4c5c8f825b5505178a61","summary_en":"A participant claims that even if 1 million was allegedly stolen by Guo, the thread remains uncertain about the current location of those assets. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q3488e56de165bdbcd51b","summary_en":"A participant claims that 1.5 billion plus 6.3 billion has been tallied with a 1.09 billion shortfall, which they attribute to intermediaries retaining money. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qde2e1b4ca8e239cff740","summary_en":"A participant asks how the dispute can be extinguished, signaling concern over practical resolution versus rhetorical victory. Community statements, not court findings."}]}],"summary":"讨论围绕“刑事、破产与上诉程序是否可衔接”形成主线，争点主要在自诉与送达规则是否成立、受害人范围和资产边界如何界定，以及没收与赔付是否能同步推进。围绕Court/破产体系的程序细节（如是否入卷、密封材料、第三方身份与债权登记）持续出现截然不同的理解。二审阶段又加入对CIPA、vacate、stay、5739及补充救济的策略分歧。与此同时，群内对来源可靠性的争议（截图、平台消息、外链）与人物身份/组织关系猜测持续发酵，导致事实判断更多依赖“叙事对峙”而非共识确认，整体讨论在“能否实际追回与何时可执行”之间反复摆荡。","guide":[{"title":"程序与资格之争：自诉资格、法官指定、CVRA是否适用","message_ids":["q9c28841e36656fd1b07a","q9b895cc18d783b79c0e9","qf80a1e1dcb5c835c27e3"]},{"title":"送达合规争议：被告本人送达、120天时限与社媒替代性","message_ids":["q928fe53c48e39204182e","q13f4c48f8b6570b70f69","qa906f48292761c0a42b8"]},{"title":"破产与刑事交叉：破产接管、债权人与刑事受害人边界","message_ids":["q613df2b815ddc6e9cca2","qa2994849001dc99aac81","q170ccb92e28f300f9a46"]},{"title":"没收与资金去向争论：14亿、分配比例与背锅对象","message_ids":["q38044594a2212d8b9e2a","q632671671594803b5b0c"]},{"title":"二巡与上诉路径：CIPA、stay/vacate、remand策略","message_ids":["qd560b6d0c6a8aac21d13","qd96a3dd52603e55e9268","q01b5325bc0b39dff8421"]},{"title":"证据链与外部信息可信度：截图、链接与删节内容是否可采信","message_ids":["q4bdeb87b0cb662a5e76d","qf40aec47a2ac018f3f59","qbdf26210bfdc34823aed"]},{"title":"5739与第三方争议：No Third-Party Beneficiaries与附带救济含义","message_ids":["qbf82c54abc571f6a4e68","q01b5325bc0b39dff8421","q170ccb92e28f300f9a46"]},{"title":"关键证据链方案：同一人物与同一资金跨程序逐一匹配","message_ids":["q925867baff6380cd1526","q187304f6134e779ae45d","q72d503c5b733faeeeb84"]},{"title":"身份与沟通叙事冲突：发言来源、七哥来电与组织关系猜测","message_ids":["q8aba043d2c6231c2701b","q54c98a49592ce3cc2bd4","q114f2216e9b713945a4c"]},{"title":"结果预期与现实诉求：胜诉是否等于回款、金额缺口与代言权争议","message_ids":["q4c5c8f825b5505178a61","q3488e56de165bdbcd51b","qde2e1b4ca8e239cff740"]}],"closed":true,"is_finalized":true,"updated_at":"2026-09-06T19:36:28.559Z","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_batch","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146/pages/5","base_batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000146?page=5","page":5,"page_size":200,"total_pages":5,"has_more":false,"next_url":null,"prev_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000146?page=4","messages":[{"id":"q2442044fd102a79f406a","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":801,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-19T00:34:19.679Z","text":"870里的那家公司什么来头，好像与gclub有关。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2442044fd102a79f406a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q0b33923ff94dff83f3df","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":802,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T00:37:31.493Z","text":"检方先切最干净的一块","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2442044fd102a79f406a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0b33923ff94dff83f3df","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2442044fd102a79f406a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q0a2aa09df6292e722473","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":803,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T00:37:40.609Z","text":"他以为gclub的律师费很干净","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0a2aa09df6292e722473","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q413acadf671fe44e608f","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":804,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T00:37:57.185Z","text":"gclub的律师费是用gclub钱付的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q413acadf671fe44e608f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q003cf49a8242aadae76a","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":805,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T00:38:15.696Z","text":"gclub钱 有主权身份冲突","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q003cf49a8242aadae76a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qa54d76fbe305b48deb0f","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":806,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T00:39:05.657Z","text":"等于这一笔钱 正式做实了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa54d76fbe305b48deb0f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qb441fe4fb3f56e7120be","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":807,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T00:39:21.195Z","text":"检方在没有理清主权身份冲突的情况下 开启第三方程序","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb441fe4fb3f56e7120be","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q617ce4713fa35bd132f0","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":808,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T00:39:29.841Z","text":"［用户 joh***］","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q617ce4713fa35bd132f0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qe59418838a7cb3154631","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":809,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T00:39:51.225Z","text":"这笔钱严格来说中国政府可以索赔 哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe59418838a7cb3154631","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qa4a8f29e35800e760a86","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":810,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T00:40:04.060Z","text":"可以要求 扣下","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa4a8f29e35800e760a86","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q1e2fadbd71007016f9b3","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":811,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T00:40:16.637Z","text":"查查是不是反贼的钱？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1e2fadbd71007016f9b3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q22cb47322b9b6ac7b998","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":812,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T00:48:53.639Z","text":"我还是希望检方可以像托雷斯一样硬冲 哈哈哈哈哈","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q22cb47322b9b6ac7b998","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q3528309651318140b763","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":813,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-19T01:14:09.782Z","text":"870似乎没有说政府就补充初步没收令发了公告或者给它寄了通知，只是提到了补充初步没收令。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3528309651318140b763","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qdea7064014bcb3d5a1c0","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":814,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T01:16:46.790Z","text":"是的 不属于没收令","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3528309651318140b763","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdea7064014bcb3d5a1c0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3528309651318140b763","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q3566d75c0af7838298a0","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":815,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-19T01:20:24.628Z","text":"WHEREAS, with the consent of the Government, Pillsbury’s time to file a petition \nasserting an interest in the Paid Legal Fees or the Unpaid Legal Fees has been extended up to and \nincluding the date of this Stipulation and Order;\n意思是这个是之前那个720的请愿，经政府同意，延长到协议签署之日。还可以这样操作？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qdea7064014bcb3d5a1c0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3566d75c0af7838298a0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdea7064014bcb3d5a1c0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qda832e87fb7513049d27","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":816,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T01:25:55.411Z","text":"这不是他们说了算的吗","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3566d75c0af7838298a0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qda832e87fb7513049d27","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3566d75c0af7838298a0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qde2e90a111f207b8901f","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":817,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-19T02:14:32.356Z","text":"浙大毕业 3亿美金 对你们来说 不都是张口就来的事情吗","edited":false,"reply_to":"q6d8661100e6ab111834e","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qde2e90a111f207b8901f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q1ad00a2c53d7a415a612","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":818,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-19T02:17:13.360Z","text":"你不也8套房吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1ad00a2c53d7a415a612","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q12c1f0d9672ecf55d3c2","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":819,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-19T02:17:21.681Z","text":"被骗的人 比 没被骗的要聪明 因为踩到门槛了 神说的话 果然高深莫测","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q12c1f0d9672ecf55d3c2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q6b7053fe47e52e1577c1","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":820,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T02:18:21.205Z","text":"不被骗 怎么让托雷斯向我下跪？ 你没被骗 有机会让托雷斯给你下跪？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q12c1f0d9672ecf55d3c2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6b7053fe47e52e1577c1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q12c1f0d9672ecf55d3c2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q5b4a7a982ba6fa52e321","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":821,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-19T02:18:41.131Z","text":"你看看 神的逻辑 果然不同寻常","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5b4a7a982ba6fa52e321","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q7ae1ee33e7bba96917c7","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":822,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T02:19:01.277Z","text":"我就是故意被骗的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7ae1ee33e7bba96917c7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qfb4ab8968e97cf7aa12f","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":823,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-19T02:19:23.659Z","text":"8套房的你说了这么多次 人都会搞错？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfb4ab8968e97cf7aa12f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qe896ce344a03a67b6917","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":824,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T02:20:38.316Z","text":"我不是故意被骗，我投两万三？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8cba3d5e7254268226fc","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe896ce344a03a67b6917","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qc9dd88125ceaae0f7602","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":825,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-19T02:20:40.149Z","text":"你对三倍赔偿这么看","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc9dd88125ceaae0f7602","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q8ad4df84e12339915da5","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":826,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T02:21:00.002Z","text":"我早就知道都是特务","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8ad4df84e12339915da5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qea056890c5129780666c","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":827,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-19T02:21:13.149Z","text":"老郭老早给你安排了 专项基金 专门赔付你？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qea056890c5129780666c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q65b4858bfd65cb738e7f","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":828,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-19T02:22:28.993Z","text":"生活中抠抠索索 节约到要死 投资被骗了 说是故意","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q65b4858bfd65cb738e7f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q4e6880085355a5fca739","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":829,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-19T02:22:44.208Z","text":"［用户 cin***］ 没有搞错啊，这不都是你吗","edited":true,"reply_to":"qfb4ab8968e97cf7aa12f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4e6880085355a5fca739","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfb4ab8968e97cf7aa12f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q504cc8ae5f97a63a3261","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":830,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T02:23:42.370Z","text":"今天10几万卖期权小赚1000","edited":false,"reply_to":"q65b4858bfd65cb738e7f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q504cc8ae5f97a63a3261","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q65b4858bfd65cb738e7f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qccde023f21738f753e9a","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":831,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T02:24:33.755Z","text":"［用户 _ki***］  投两万三 我就是故意的","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qccde023f21738f753e9a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q8455426105151bac190b","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":832,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-19T02:31:45.628Z","text":"Tony的投资，应该有进Gckub的吧","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe59418838a7cb3154631","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8455426105151bac190b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe59418838a7cb3154631","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q6cffe7a81a58baee792f","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":833,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-19T02:31:52.052Z","text":"神的角度总是这样清奇 我没有仓位的 这是网图","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6cffe7a81a58baee792f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q1b92c6a5d88ba9d20d08","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":834,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T02:31:53.916Z","text":"有","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8455426105151bac190b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1b92c6a5d88ba9d20d08","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8455426105151bac190b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qf3afb3fb85c619f2ea3d","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":835,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T02:32:33.401Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息] 网图我不搞个一千万 搞个30","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf3afb3fb85c619f2ea3d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q90e0f7a8851e6f66a667","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":836,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-19T02:33:33.320Z","text":"你不也是搞了10w吗","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q90e0f7a8851e6f66a667","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q20f9f668ab6b0ed32e47","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":837,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-19T02:33:48.590Z","text":"网图怎么不搞10亿的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q20f9f668ab6b0ed32e47","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q9f5128c86dec97b19f4b","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":838,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-19T02:35:12.611Z","text":"赶紧发网图证明自己","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9f5128c86dec97b19f4b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qe4e0ab43b6e02421afdf","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":839,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-19T02:35:17.084Z","text":"你脑补一下吧","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe4e0ab43b6e02421afdf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q3d8727dc2f9256b1f8cd","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":840,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-19T02:38:14.259Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息] 别闹了，你上面主子没收不到G系列，你在群里这单任务，没有尾款的🤣","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3d8727dc2f9256b1f8cd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q9093d72810b5312c9140","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":841,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-19T02:40:30.803Z","text":"你看 [删节：成员身份]，消停了很多\n她可能担心被暗杀，在搬家了🤣","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9093d72810b5312c9140","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q8afde758c51d19d7e4fd","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":842,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-19T02:41:07.779Z","text":"可能别人只是厌倦了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8afde758c51d19d7e4fd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qd5604de64b6f898bfa8c","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":843,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-19T02:41:27.160Z","text":"就像我现在开始不回了 就是被神安排好了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd5604de64b6f898bfa8c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q684b42e1bd13fe63fea8","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":844,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-19T03:01:22.370Z","text":"搞不懂你们是怎么想的，这个群里大多数人，不关心你们的死活，现实里又不认识你们","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q684b42e1bd13fe63fea8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q114ee27059ca7f31d7de","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":845,"speaker":"lon***","date":"2026-08-19T04:50:17.756Z","text":"联盟怎么提前知道的\n\nhttps://x.com/sendxicptohell/status/2089884586390217011?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q114ee27059ca7f31d7de","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q86186f8f7249c440841e","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":846,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T04:50:47.771Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息] 这个根本不用提前 我是第一个知道的","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q86186f8f7249c440841e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qa9071f32ed0b736c359c","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":847,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T04:51:12.353Z","text":"往里搜索就有了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa9071f32ed0b736c359c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q374943ca0723a3845532","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":848,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-08-19T04:51:20.068Z","text":"https://x.com/baoliaogeming/status/2089938000209932400?s=20","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q374943ca0723a3845532","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q9ddf7b3377e7a7a7bacd","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":849,"speaker":"lon***","date":"2026-08-19T04:51:22.682Z","text":"转监狱你也能提前知道","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9ddf7b3377e7a7a7bacd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qeff91b4783f051c60b36","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":850,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-08-19T04:53:48.314Z","text":"以后给郭写信还会被联盟截获吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q86186f8f7249c440841e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeff91b4783f051c60b36","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q86186f8f7249c440841e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q8299af4a17168686caef","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":851,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T04:53:59.158Z","text":"不知道啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8299af4a17168686caef","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q032a39cec90a409ef8b8","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":852,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T04:54:04.766Z","text":"最好全都截获","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q032a39cec90a409ef8b8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q63f7d22b69aa637de684","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":853,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-08-19T04:57:01.124Z","text":"截不截获倒是没关系，被截获反而更好。看到一封封真情实感的信件，会让联盟做恶梦。白骨精都是见光死的，真情实感也是一把尖刀刺中白骨精的。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q63f7d22b69aa637de684","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qe625e29cb78ca6a6186e","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":854,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-19T05:03:04.314Z","text":"Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP这是gclub？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2fbf57dd731d8d374869","reply_status":"out_of_scope","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe625e29cb78ca6a6186e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复的附件未收录","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q9ea2d72f823e538d4fe0","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":855,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T05:03:10.726Z","text":"恩","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe625e29cb78ca6a6186e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9ea2d72f823e538d4fe0","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe625e29cb78ca6a6186e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q559b592fa1f77cd4e4d9","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":856,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-19T05:20:42.863Z","text":"破产案文件5739，luc已经放弃对南区检察官办公室冻结控制的资产主张债权！luc这么早就放弃了？！有人确认这个事没有，原文怎么写的？难道是luc放弃找南区检方演给人看它还是讲道理，但后面最终没收后，luc在资产由司法部的专门负责处理没收资产的部门控制后再出手？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q559b592fa1f77cd4e4d9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q2716250de2f995c7443f","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":857,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T05:24:24.901Z","text":"谁说的？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q559b592fa1f77cd4e4d9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2716250de2f995c7443f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q559b592fa1f77cd4e4d9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q0c12236a3f8b587a490f","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":858,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-19T05:25:31.799Z","text":"协议的对方是美国政府，我还没看原文。https://twitter.com/BBWWblack1/status/2089921057323143422","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2716250de2f995c7443f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0c12236a3f8b587a490f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2716250de2f995c7443f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qaf96281633d0d081f279","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":859,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-19T05:26:53.356Z","text":"如果内容属实，那就是luc放弃了，算是赢了luc一个回合。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaf96281633d0d081f279","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qc700e639aec71ceccf76","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":860,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-19T05:29:05.028Z","text":"那检方没收了钱给谁，pax不要了？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q559b592fa1f77cd4e4d9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc700e639aec71ceccf76","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q559b592fa1f77cd4e4d9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q898cb0a9a19269072a14","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":861,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T05:33:38.461Z","text":"好像真是","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0c12236a3f8b587a490f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q898cb0a9a19269072a14","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0c12236a3f8b587a490f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q16867e2086bd31570a17","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":862,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T05:33:50.886Z","text":"luc不追没收的6亿","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q16867e2086bd31570a17","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qb99fa60b8723d8559355","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":863,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-19T05:35:00.583Z","text":"现在不知道它们在玩什么花招，这不是它们一开始的计划。可能想把登记了债权的投资者赶到政府这边登记remission,让政府的脸上好看点。不然高调抓捕起诉了三年多，定罪了两年多，法院已经判决，还没几个人登记remission*!","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc700e639aec71ceccf76","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb99fa60b8723d8559355","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc700e639aec71ceccf76","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q224a9b606461946c1eeb","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":864,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T05:36:47.047Z","text":"［用户 joh***］  破产案抢钱已经彻底完了","edited":true,"reply_to":"q16867e2086bd31570a17","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q224a9b606461946c1eeb","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q16867e2086bd31570a17","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qf921ed33b0224b8c627f","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":865,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T05:37:03.886Z","text":"［用户 joh***］ 破产案5739","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf921ed33b0224b8c627f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qb472fe878fd859bb50e3","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":866,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T05:47:02.204Z","text":"［用户 joh***］ 检方玩完了 luc完了","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb472fe878fd859bb50e3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q3488e56de165bdbcd51b","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":867,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-19T05:55:58.491Z","text":"luc那1.5亿加上南区的6.3亿，还有1.09亿没对上账，这部分应该就是各路演员吞的钱。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3488e56de165bdbcd51b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q6b861e8f5c2ad7171da4","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":868,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-19T06:41:16.332Z","text":"这1.5亿是不是郭的家族资金，投资的基本没有了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3488e56de165bdbcd51b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6b861e8f5c2ad7171da4","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3488e56de165bdbcd51b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qfb27fa96d7b4d85295aa","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":869,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-19T06:43:23.587Z","text":"郭家人的没有银行账户资金，都是游艇，车，房之类的，那1.5亿应该是投资者的钱。具体什么情况可以看5739原文。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q6b861e8f5c2ad7171da4","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfb27fa96d7b4d85295aa","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6b861e8f5c2ad7171da4","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qb17c113859ca3417c5ff","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":870,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-19T06:44:39.714Z","text":"具体从哪些地方追回来的不知道，农场借贷，gtv，喜交易所，法治社会和法治基金都有涉及。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb17c113859ca3417c5ff","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q81b82fece8bd7938b146","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":871,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-08-19T06:53:18.662Z","text":"刑事案受害者的權益優先於民事案的債權人的權益。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q559b592fa1f77cd4e4d9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q81b82fece8bd7938b146","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q559b592fa1f77cd4e4d9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q4d160f96abb19cc36b0f","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":872,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-19T07:03:45.006Z","text":"不是这样。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q81b82fece8bd7938b146","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4d160f96abb19cc36b0f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q81b82fece8bd7938b146","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q6c39b5efc3fec3d728cb","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":873,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-19T07:09:44.840Z","text":"这个结果，是那些展开司法行动的人努力得来的，不是重复语录喊来的。下一步，是要把luc整个过程都是非法给捋出来呈现到卷宗，它追回的1.5亿还没花完的得拿过来，花了的得赔偿。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6c39b5efc3fec3d728cb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q64d22e6192eaf4185049","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":874,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T07:20:29.917Z","text":"毫不夸张的说 luc签协议认输 至少一半归功于螺丝哥 ［用户 chu***］","edited":true,"reply_to":"q6c39b5efc3fec3d728cb","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q64d22e6192eaf4185049","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6c39b5efc3fec3d728cb","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q3f475df477b93306c64f","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":875,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T07:21:00.352Z","text":"是螺丝哥第一个让检方刑事调查luc","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3f475df477b93306c64f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q65813a1f62ddc739f453","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":876,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T07:21:21.552Z","text":"733后 luc估计就彻底不敢来了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q65813a1f62ddc739f453","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q62830af1daa267b3a55e","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":877,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T07:22:05.097Z","text":"托雷斯下跪 luc认输 这只是刚刚开始","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q62830af1daa267b3a55e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qa65096d3a1b97bd9584e","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":878,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T07:24:12.241Z","text":"基本上所有发展都没逃脱我当时设计733后强制令的设计图","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc7aef45978bd7e8aefdf","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa65096d3a1b97bd9584e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qb78376ed08ac9370a781","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":879,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T07:38:58.040Z","text":"[删节：成员身份] 今天出的870 和luc的认输文件5739 还有托雷斯之前的下跪文件861 都说明南区 检方 luc 在把问题切小，技术化，把最干净的先拉出来处理。 而这种处理方法 往往是遇到系统级压力的时候才会这么处理。 检方肯定有人盯着这个群，他们也知道我们接下去想干什么，就是全案撤销 全案推翻。 现在他们干的事情 都是为了当我们打全案撤销的时候 爆炸半径会从一万米减小到九千米 他们现在开始的行动，全都是防御型 再也没了之前的嚣张气焰！","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb78376ed08ac9370a781","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q97bd2ef44d9fe6567da5","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":880,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T07:41:48.097Z","text":"［用户 joh***］ 怪不得之前 ［用户 mon***］  ［用户 _ki***］  ［用户 may***］  ［用户 tig***］  这些[屏蔽词]开始猛打心理战 原来是luc认输了","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q97bd2ef44d9fe6567da5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qda7a022f9e927dc7fa6d","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":881,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T07:45:29.348Z","text":"https://x.com/ruienxiaoge3/status/2089981723094470858?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qda7a022f9e927dc7fa6d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qc9e2e6788a4dc86b9750","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":882,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-08-19T07:49:37.841Z","text":"多米诺骨牌开始倒下了第一块","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc9e2e6788a4dc86b9750","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qfa96c7a8b3f494424220","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":883,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-19T08:02:23.215Z","text":"感觉大家把托雷斯一直推着往前冲，推着推着然后转身就跑，luc现在第一个转身就跑。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfa96c7a8b3f494424220","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q46a8ac6ce23f48c7dd60","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":884,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-08-19T10:16:16.632Z","text":"https://x.com/baoliaogeming/status/1904469415959400581?s=20","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q46a8ac6ce23f48c7dd60","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q7d1c496771fb7ee35f6b","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":885,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T10:20:36.183Z","text":"如果你能把 Doc. 5739原始PDF 发给我，我可以直接把41页给你拆出来，重点看三件事：到底有多少钱转刑事forfeiture、Luc具体放弃了哪些claim、以及这对你自己的钱和26-1853分别意味着什么。这份文件很值得认真看。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qaf96281633d0d081f279","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7d1c496771fb7ee35f6b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaf96281633d0d081f279","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qddc3fe81ed6b1651b861","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":886,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-19T10:22:11.010Z","text":"https://document.epiq11.com/document/getdocumentbycode?docId=4606671&projectCode=HTT&source=DM","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7d1c496771fb7ee35f6b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qddc3fe81ed6b1651b861","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7d1c496771fb7ee35f6b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q5e82b077aaaff80b2e0c","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":887,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-08-19T10:24:04.716Z","text":"卢克不来刑事案件要钱了，远远不够。必须查清楚，卢克对刑事案件到底产生了什么影响!债权人登记必须说清楚","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5e82b077aaaff80b2e0c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q60093f4122d2ad111cb7","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":888,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T10:29:02.680Z","text":"我把你发的 Doc. 5739（41页） 看完了。这个文件比刚才截图里那段总结重要得多，而且我先告诉你结论：\n\n这不是“Luc把所有东西都放弃给刑事案”这么简单，而是 Luc 和美国政府做了一个“全球和解（global settlement）”，把资产正式分成两大池：Forfeiture Assets 和 Estate Assets。\n\n文件首页就写得很清楚：Luc作为Chapter 11 Trustee，请破产法院批准他与美国政府之间的全球和解。 5739.pdf\n\n最核心的安排是：\n\n* 对已经列入刑事没收范围的 Forfeiture Assets，Luc承诺不再提出claim、petition、ancillary proceeding或adversary proceeding去挑战刑事没收，而且最终没收后，也不挑战政府依法向刑事案victims分配这些资产。 5739.pdf\n* 对已经属于破产estate的 Estate Assets，政府反过来承诺不再追刑事或民事没收，也不在破产案里对这些资产主张权利；这些钱以后仍由Luc在破产法院监督下按Bankruptcy Code分配。 5739.pdf\n\n所以那张推文说“Luc不再索要”，只能说对已经划入Forfeiture Assets的那一部分基本成立；但Luc并没有全面退出，他对Estate Assets仍然继续追，而且文件明确说他的调查还在继续。 5739.pdf\n\n更重要的是，Luc自己在这个文件里承认，他原来认为自己对很多刑事没收资产有更优先的利益，但他没有去走§853(n) ancillary proceeding，而是选择与政府和解。\n\n这句话对你们一直关注的问题很重要，因为它再次证明：“政府已经扣押/初步没收”不等于第三方产权问题不存在。 Luc本来就准备争“superior interest”，只是现在选择settle。\n\n而且第15—16页还有一个非常关键的事实。Luc明确主张：政府扣押的钱里面，有相当一部分是破产申请日之后由第三方转进郭控制账户的，因此按照Luc的破产法理论，这些钱从来不是郭个人的财产，而是estate的财产，所以不能被没收。 5739.pdf\n\n政府不同意，并威胁如果不和解，不仅会抗辩Luc的挑战，还可能继续追Luc已经追回的Estate Assets。 5739.pdf\n\n所以最后双方不是法院裁出了一个“谁绝对正确”，而是因为法律和事实风险太大而妥协。Luc甚至承认，他没找到一个在类似情况下由bankruptcy estate成功挑战政府forfeiture的直接先例，并称这个案子接近 sui generis。 5739.pdf\n\n你截图里几个数字，现在可以确认了\n\n破产estate目前列出的现金追回总额是 $152,716,104，这个数字是真的。文件第38—39页逐项列出，最后总计就是这个金额。\n\n而政府一边已经扣押了大约 $642 million 的现金和其他资产，并正在推进最终刑事没收。 5739.pdf","edited":false,"reply_to":"qddc3fe81ed6b1651b861","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q60093f4122d2ad111cb7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qddc3fe81ed6b1651b861","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q6b65fb678598fba47fdc","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":889,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T10:29:25.868Z","text":"所谓“香草山/ Mountains of Spices”那部分也可以确认：政府拿到的相关资金原则上全部进 Forfeiture Assets，但其中 $2,540,087.05 必须转给Luc，作为 Estate Asset。 5739.pdf\n\nMahwah房产也不是“全部归刑事案”。卖掉以后先扣费用、抵押、税费等，再拿 $1 million 给破产案里被认定为victim的allowed claim holders，剩余净款才由政府和Luc 50/50平分。\n\n对你最值得注意的一条\n\n第27页的 Conditions to Effectiveness 非常关键。\n\n这个和解成立的前提之一，是那些Forfeiture Assets最终必须持续受到final forfeiture order约束。\n\n如果某项资产后来因为：\n\n* 没收令被vacated；\n* 没收令被voided；\n* 或者挑战没收后达成settlement；\n\n导致它不再属于刑事没收，那么Luc有权重新回来主张这项资产属于Chapter 11 Estate。 5739.pdf\n\n这个条款跟 26-1853 的关系非常直接。\n\n因为假设二巡以后真的撤销或者改变某一部分forfeiture，资产不会自动回到郭手里。 5739已经提前约定：Luc可能马上重新主张这些资产进入破产estate。\n\n所以资产路径现在其实更像：\n\n刑事没收成立 → 政府控制 → victim remission/restoration；\n刑事没收被撤销 → Luc可能重新主张 → bankruptcy estate → allowed creditors","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6b65fb678598fba47fdc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qbf82c54abc571f6a4e68","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":890,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T10:29:54.307Z","text":"另外，5739还有一句对你很现实：这个settlement明确写着 “No Third-Party Beneficiaries”，除了很有限的例外，它不是为了给其他第三方直接创造权利。 5739.pdf\n\n所以你不能拿5739直接说“这个协议已经给我返钱权”；但它非常有价值，因为它把政府、Luc、刑事没收、破产estate之间真正的资产边界正式固定进record了。\n\n我现在认为，5739对26-1853的意义甚至比昨天的870更大：870证明第三方BFP可以从没收资产里 carve out；5739则证明连Luc和政府自己都对大量资产究竟属于forfeiture还是bankruptcy estate存在重大、长期、复杂的产权冲突，最后不是靠一句“都是郭的犯罪所得”解决，而是靠全球和解解决。\n\n这对你们一直提出的 ownership没有那么简单、不能把所有资金一概视为郭个人犯罪所得 的论点，是非常强的事实背景。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbf82c54abc571f6a4e68","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q170ccb92e28f300f9a46","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":891,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T10:32:03.319Z","text":"对，你这个方向我同意，而且 5739 本身已经给出足够多线索，说明“Luc退出刑事没收争夺”只是现在这个节点，远远不能回答他此前到底对刑事案造成了什么影响。\n\n最关键的是，5739自己承认：破产案和刑事案从来不是两条互不相干的线。 Trustee一方面说自己代表所有破产债权人最大化回收，另一方面政府代表刑事案受害者；Luc还明确说，他为了配合刑事程序，曾经主动stay破产案的重要部分，等待刑事审判结束。\n\n而且影响不是抽象的。公开刑事案材料显示，Luc曾经直接关注甚至介入刑事案里的第三方资产主张。比如2023年，代表 3,345名Himalaya Exchange客户 的人向刑事法院要求返还被扣押财产后，Luc专门向破产法院提交Notice，认为这个刑事动议可能影响破产estate和债权分配，并主动表示可以参与刑事法院的status conference。\n\n再往后，到2025年刑事没收阶段，政府也正式告诉Torres：Luc声称对大部分相关没收资产拥有interest，并计划在郭的preliminary forfeiture order出来以后提交petition。 Torres的ECF 691记录了这个情况。\n\n现在5739进一步确认了：Luc原本认为自己对many of the Forfeiture Assets拥有superior interest，理论上本来应该通过§853(n)/Rule 32.2(c) ancillary proceeding去跟政府打，但最后他选择不打，而是和政府settle。 5739.pdf\n\n所以你说“必须查清楚Luc对刑事案件到底产生了什么影响”，我认为至少必须查四条线：\n\n1. Luc有没有把破产案中的债权人资料、proofs of claim、投资记录、所谓victim信息提供给SDNY政府？\n2. 刑事案里的victim list、loss calculation、restitution/remission框架，有多少来自破产案claims register或Luc的调查？\n3. Luc的alter-ego、beneficial ownership、资金流调查结果，有多少被检方拿去支持刑事案的RICO、loss、forfeiture或sentencing？\n4. Luc对第三方返还财产请求采取过什么立场，有没有使原本主张“这是我的钱”的投资人，被重新归类为bankruptcy creditor或criminal victim。\n\n你特别说的 “债权人登记必须说清楚”，我觉得这是最关键的一条。\n\n5739第6页直接写道：破产案的 proofs of claim 里面，不只是所谓郭案投资受害者，还有诽谤索赔人、性侵索赔人、判决债权人，以及大量与刑事案欺诈类似或相同的claim。也就是说，bankruptcy creditor pool 本身远比 criminal victim pool 宽。 5739.pdf\n\n这非常重要，因为理论上：\n\n“在破产案登记债权” ≠ “被刑事法院认定为郭案犯罪受害者”。\n\n一个人可以是bankruptcy creditor，却不是刑事案某一count的victim；反过来，一个刑事案victim也未必提交过bankruptcy proof of claim。\n\n如果后来检方、PSR、Torres量刑或者remission体系把这两个人群混在了一起，那就必须问清楚分类依据是什么、谁提供了名单、有没有逐人验证、金额怎么计算。\n\n而5739现在又说，最终刑事没收资产会依照刑事规则向victims分配，而Estate Assets则由Luc根据Bankruptcy Code向allowed creditors分配。 5739.pdf\n\n这等于政府和Luc现在自己正式承认：\n\ncriminal victims 和 bankruptcy creditors 是两个不同法律群体、走两个不同分配体系。\n\n因此，如果以前量刑时Torres或者检方用了Luc的“债权人”数据去证明刑事案里的“victim数量、loss、需要补偿的人”，那就值得非常认真查。\n\n还有一个历史节点也值得挖：Torres曾两次拒绝郭要求stay破产程序，公开报道对此有记录。 但5739现在又告诉我们，Luc自己实际上曾经为了刑事案件主动stay破产案的重要部分。 5739.pdf\n\n这两件事放在一起值得查时间线：\n\n郭要求停 → 法院拒绝；\nLuc什么时候主动停了哪些部分 → 为什么停 → 谁要求/协商 → 停止以后哪些资料继续流向刑事案。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5e82b077aaaff80b2e0c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q170ccb92e28f300f9a46","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5e82b077aaaff80b2e0c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q60a8b9560c048d5a53e1","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":892,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T10:32:26.131Z","text":"我现在认为真正值得做的，不只是盯5739，而是把 2022–2026 Luc ↔ SDNY/DOJ ↔ criminal docket 的交叉记录全部拉出来。\n\n尤其优先查：\n\nECF 89附近、152–153、186/198、597、691、724、750、784，以及所有提到 Trustee / Despins / bankruptcy claims / creditor / victim / forfeiture 的文件。\n\n然后再和破产案的 claims register 对照。\n\n如果最后能做出一张：\n\n谁在破产案登记债权 → 登记金额/理由 → 是否后来出现在刑事victim体系 → 是否进入loss/restitution/remission → 来源是谁\n\n那才真正能回答你说的：\n\n“Luc到底对刑事案产生了什么影响。”\n\n而这个问题一旦查实，对26-1853的价值可能比5739本身更高，因为它直接碰的是量刑事实来源、victim classification、loss、forfeiture和程序可靠性，而不是单纯资产现在归谁。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q60a8b9560c048d5a53e1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q187304f6134e779ae45d","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":893,"speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-08-19T10:36:41.139Z","text":"我最初在法庭文件里面的推测，一旦原始刑事案件报案人也去做了债权人登记，而债权人登记已经被检方指控然后法官认定为妨碍司法虚假索赔，这怎么解释啊？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q187304f6134e779ae45d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q925867baff6380cd1526","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":894,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T10:38:32.000Z","text":"如果原始报案人后来也做了债权登记，而检方和法院又认定这个债权登记属于虚假索赔甚至妨碍司法，那关键不是一句“他是不是受害者”，而是必须把同一个人的三种身份拆开：报案人、刑事victim、破产creditor。\n\n尤其要查清楚法院认定“假”的到底是什么：只是金额夸大，还是债权法律基础不成立，还是连最核心的受害事实都是假的。如果认定虚假的恰恰是同一笔所谓诈骗损失，但这个人后来仍被政府用于victim count、loss、sentencing或remission，那就是一个需要政府和法院解释的直接矛盾。\n\n5739现在已经证明，bankruptcy creditor pool和criminal victim pool不是一回事，所以最重要的就是把claims register和刑事victim材料逐人、逐金额对表。\n\n我觉得你们下一步最值得做的，不是继续停留在“这个逻辑很怪”，而是锁定那一个具体报案人，把四样东西并排放：\n\n最初刑事报案/complaint → 破产proof of claim → 检方说它虚假的文件 → Torres最终认定obstruction的文件。\n\n只要这四份能对上同一个人、同一笔钱，我就可以帮你判断这到底只是“金额不一致”，还是已经形成对26-1853有价值的政府立场冲突 / victim classification / sentencing factual reliability问题。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q187304f6134e779ae45d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q925867baff6380cd1526","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q187304f6134e779ae45d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q8b9fdf2f29dadb19e6f9","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":895,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-08-19T10:56:43.823Z","text":"上面的1234 就是这个刑事案件的关键！ 检方、Luc合谋司法欺诈 迫害被告！\n用虚假的债权人登记抓铺被告，检方用虚假的受害者人数、金额让陪审团给被告定罪，用这些虚假的受害者人数、金额，给被告量刑， Luc 作为 trustee， 花了那么多的钱，调查结果是什么？ 刑事法庭也必须知道他的调查结果","edited":false,"reply_to":"q60a8b9560c048d5a53e1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8b9fdf2f29dadb19e6f9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q60a8b9560c048d5a53e1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q72d503c5b733faeeeb84","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":896,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T11:06:01.591Z","text":"现在我们手里的5739，已经足以证明其中一个非常关键的前提：破产债权人和刑事受害者不是天然同一批人，而且Luc长期掌握了大规模债权、资产和资金流调查资料。\n\n5739明确写着，破产案里的proofs of claim包括诽谤索赔、性侵索赔、判决债权，以及很多与刑事案欺诈“类似甚至相同”的claims。换句话说，claims register本身就是一个混合池，不可能直接等同于criminal victim list。 5739.pdf\n\n同时，Luc在5739里说，他已经进行了非常广泛的调查，追踪数百个账户、壳公司、家庭成员和关联人，并追回超过1.7亿美元；他还说，要继续打政府和破产estate之间的资产归属争议，甚至需要对“数百个账户、数万笔转账”做forensic analysis。\n\n所以你问：\n\n“Luc花了这么多钱，调查结果是什么？刑事法庭是不是应该知道？”\n\n这个问题本身是完全合理的。\n\n但要把它变成26-1853真正能用的东西，必须证明下面这条链，而不是跳过中间步骤：\n\n① 某些人/某些金额先进入了bankruptcy claims register；\n② 这些claims后来被政府或法院认定为虚假、操纵、或属于obstruction行为；\n③ 同一批人/同一批金额又被政府用于criminal victim count、loss calculation、trial narrative、sentencing或forfeiture/remission；\n④ Luc或Trustee掌握了与这些claims真实性直接有关的调查结果，而刑事法院没有获得、没有审查，或者政府明知这些材料仍采用了相反事实。\n\n如果这四步真的能对上，性质就会发生明显变化。\n\n尤其第②步非常关键，因为美国法本身明确把明知且欺诈性地向破产estate提交虚假proof of claim列为犯罪，18 U.S.C. §152(4)直接规定这一点。 所以如果政府一边正式主张某一类claim是fraudulent claim，一边又把同一claim里的同一个损失数字拿去当刑事受害损失，那政府至少需要解释这两个立场如何同时成立。\n\n但也必须防止对方很容易反驳的一种情况：比如一个人确实被骗100万美元，但后来在破产案虚报500万美元。那么政府完全可以说：\n\n100万美元的victim status是真的；多报的400万美元是假claim。\n\n这种情况下，并不存在你说的核心矛盾。\n\n真正严重的是：\n\n政府/法院认定“虚假”的恰恰就是这个人的核心债权基础或同一笔所谓犯罪损失，结果刑事案又继续把它作为真实victim/loss使用。\n\n那才是最需要解释的地方。\n\n还有你说的“Luc调查结果刑事法院必须知道”，法律上最好不要直接表述成“Luc所有调查结果都必须交刑事法院”。更准确的问题是：\n\n如果政府掌握或者可以归责于检方团队掌握了 materially exculpatory / impeaching information，或者在量刑阶段法院依赖的数据存在重大争议，那么这些事实有没有被披露、校验和解决。\n\n至于Luc和USAO之间的信息是否能算同一“prosecution team”掌握，不能光因为双方合作就自动成立，需要看实际关系、信息共享、联合调查程度等。这个一定要靠文件证明，不能先假定“合谋”。\n\n而5739现在已经给了你一个非常好的突破口：它明确说，Trustee和Government有长期、直接、实质性的资产争议与谈判，而且为了刑事程序，Trustee曾经主动stay破产案的重要部分；双方最后还做了global settlement。 5739.pdf 这至少证明他们不是互不往来的两个系统。\n\n另外5739还明确承认，政府已经扣押约6.42亿美元，而这些资产若最终没收，将用于criminal victims的remission/restoration；同时，任何认为自己对这些资产有superior interest的人，要走ancillary proceeding。 5739.pdf\n\n所以现在最值得查的，不是泛泛地说“Luc害了郭”，而是做一张逐人逐金额交叉表：\n\nClaimant A\n→ bankruptcy claim号\n→ claim金额\n→ claim依据\n→ Luc后来如何处理/是否object\n→ 检方是否曾说是假claim\n→ Torres是否认定与obstruction有关\n→ trial是否把A当victim\n→ sentencing loss有没有算A\n→ remission名单有没有A。\n\n只要出现一个完全闭合的例子，比如：\n\n同一人 + 同一笔钱\n在破产案被说是假\n在刑事案却被算成真","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q72d503c5b733faeeeb84","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qa6d76444a39faa6fd23a","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":897,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T11:06:14.222Z","text":"这个价值就远高于一百句“司法欺诈”。\n\n至于你现在说的“检方、Luc合谋司法欺诈迫害被告”，我建议现阶段把它当作待证明的假设，不要先当成已经成立的结论。因为如果以后真的要给二巡看，最强的表达不是“他们合谋”，而是：\n\nThe same claimant and the same alleged loss were treated as fraudulent in one federal proceeding and genuine in another, without reconciliation, despite the Trustee’s extensive investigation and coordination with the Government.\n\n这句话一旦被文件证实，就已经很重了，甚至不需要先用“合谋”两个字。\n\n而且§1512(c)(2)现在经过最高法院 Fischer 后，对obstruction的适用范围也更讲究与具体official proceeding之间的关系和行为性质，所以我们更需要看Torres到底认定了什么，而不能仅凭“false claims + obstruction”几个词推断全部法律结论。\n\n如果你愿意，下一步最有效的是把你说的“原始刑事报案人 + 后来的债权登记 + 检方指控虚假 + Torres obstruction finding”那几份具体docket找出来。我可以直接给你做成一条完整证据链，判断到底有没有你怀疑的那个核心冲突。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa6d76444a39faa6fd23a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qb9b70ea7a52c5e36ff6e","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":898,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-08-19T11:06:31.571Z","text":"这份和解协议，是不是luc 想脱身刑事案的角色？ 上了二巡的人是否可以论证一下？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q925867baff6380cd1526","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb9b70ea7a52c5e36ff6e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q925867baff6380cd1526","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qa659ac5fd71c5ee54676","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":899,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T11:07:37.708Z","text":"可以论证，但我不建议直接把5739定性成“Luc想脱身刑事案角色”。从这份和解协议本身，能更稳地说成：\n\nLuc现在是在“退出与政府争夺刑事没收资产的正面冲突”，而不是证明他此前没有深度参与刑事案相关资产、victim、claims和forfeiture问题。\n\n5739写得非常明确：Luc原本认为破产estate对很多 Forfeiture Assets 有 superior interest，本来可以走 §853(n)/Rule 32.2 ancillary proceeding去争；现在他和政府和解，承诺不再提交claim、petition、ancillary proceeding或adversary proceeding去挑战这些Forfeiture Assets。\n\n所以从事实层面，可以合理提出一个问题：\n\n为什么Luc在刑事案已经定罪、量刑、进入二巡之后，才与政府做全球和解，并放弃原本准备在刑事没收程序里主张的“superior interest”？在此之前，他与政府之间到底共享过什么资料、对victim/loss/ownership/forfeiture产生过什么影响？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa659ac5fd71c5ee54676","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q4d5d98b3c5e47e01b7c6","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":900,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T11:08:02.190Z","text":"这个问题可以提，而且我认为值得提。\n\n但要注意，5739本身没有证明Luc是在“逃避责任”或“脱身”。文件给出的正式理由是：双方对破产法和forfeiture law谁优先存在重大争议，继续诉讼会非常昂贵、漫长且结果不确定，所以选择settlement。Luc甚至写明，如果不和解，需要分析数百个账户、数万笔转账。 5739.pdf\n\n因此二巡层面最强的论证，不应该是：\n\n“Luc现在跑了，所以以前肯定有问题。”\n\n而应该是：\n\n5739证明Trustee与Government长期存在直接而实质的交叉关系；Trustee掌握独立调查成果，并曾主张对大量刑事没收资产具有superior interest。如今双方通过和解终止这些争议，却没有回答Trustee此前的调查结果如何影响刑事案中的victim classification、loss calculation、ownership findings及forfeiture。\n\n这个论证就扎实得多。\n\n尤其5739还有几个可以给二巡律师抓的点。\n\n第一，Luc自己说，政府代表criminal victims，Luc代表更广泛的bankruptcy creditors，而且破产债权人包括诽谤、性侵、judgment creditor以及与刑事诈骗相似或相同的fraud claims。\n\n这等于5739自己承认：\n\nbankruptcy creditor ≠ criminal victim。\n\n所以如果刑事案的victim人数、loss金额或者量刑叙事曾经直接或间接使用了破产claims数据，就必须核对怎么筛选、谁审核、有没有把无效或争议claim算进去。\n\n第二，Luc说政府已经扣押约 $642 million，而Luc又主张其中相当部分资产应该属于破产estate；甚至他明确说，一些钱是在bankruptcy petition date之后由第三方转入郭控制账户，因此按他的法律理论，这些钱根本不是郭的，而是estate的。 \n\n这对26-1853很敏感，因为如果量刑/forfeiture把这些钱笼统描述成“郭取得的犯罪所得”，而与此同时政府知道Trustee对所有权有完全相反的调查结论，二巡律师完全可以问：\n\nDistrict Court是否在存在重大、已知ownership dispute的情况下依赖了未经充分解决的事实？\n\n第三，5739还有一个我认为特别有意思的条款：这个settlement只有在final forfeiture order持续有效的情况下才真正约束Luc。如果某一项没收后来被vacated、voided，或者通过challenge settlement解决，Luc就可以重新回来主张这项资产属于bankruptcy estate。 5739.pdf","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4d5d98b3c5e47e01b7c6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q01b5325bc0b39dff8421","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":901,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T11:08:28.011Z","text":"换句话说：\n\nLuc并没有彻底放弃这些资产。\n\n更准确地说，他是在说：\n\n“只要刑事没收最终成立，我不跟政府抢；如果刑事没收以后被二巡推翻，我保留回来抢这些资产的权利。”\n\n所以你说“Luc想脱身刑事案角色”，我会修正成：\n\n他是在降低自己现在作为刑事forfeiture对立claimant的角色和风险，但同时保留了26-1853若改变forfeiture结果后重新主张资产的后手。\n\n这个说法有5739直接支持。\n\n至于“上了二巡的人能不能论证”，这里有个程序限制一定要注意。\n\n如果你说的是郭本人26-1853的律师，当然可以研究5739对已经在上诉中的问题有什么意义。但5739是 2026年8月18日 才产生的post-judgment材料，不是原始量刑记录的一部分。FRAP 10(e)通常是用来纠正或补充“本来应该在district-court record里却因错误遗漏”的材料，不是简单把后来发生的新材料塞进上诉record。二巡自己的Rule 10也是这个基本结构。\n\n因此26-1853律师需要考虑的可能是judicial notice、supplemental authority、适当motion，或者利用5739去解释已经存在于原record中的争议，而不是简单说“把5739加进appendix”。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q01b5325bc0b39dff8421","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"q5c8fd97d2ef33b983358","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":902,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T11:09:00.958Z","text":"所以我认为最值得让二巡的人提的，不是：\n\n“5739证明Luc犯罪/合谋。”\n\n而是三个非常具体的问题：\n\n1. Luc的调查结果是什么？\n2. 这些调查结果有没有进入、影响或反驳刑事案的victim/loss/ownership/forfeiture事实？\n3. 政府什么时候知道这些结果，District Court什么时候知道，为什么这些重大冲突没有在量刑和没收前被完整解决？\n\n如果后来再证明你们刚才说的那条链——同一个claim在破产案被认为虚假，却在刑事案被当成真实victim/loss使用——再加上5739证明Luc和政府长期交叉协商，那时这个论点就会比单独5739强很多。\n\n5739目前最有价值的不是证明“Luc脱身”，而是打开了一扇门：要求把Luc与刑事检方之间2022—2026年的信息流和事实来源查清楚","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5c8fd97d2ef33b983358","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"},{"id":"qf1974f3a212c9826189e","batch_id":"batch-000146","seq":903,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T11:13:09.216Z","text":"所以最好的打法不是：\n\n“5739证明Luc和检方合谋，请二巡调查。”\n\n而是：\n\n“5739提供了一个后续联邦司法记录，确认Trustee与Government之间存在此前未充分呈现在量刑/没收记录中的重大事实和法律冲突。请二巡结合原审中已经存在的victim/loss/ownership争议，审查District Court是否依赖了不完整或未经解决的事实基础；必要时vacate并remand作进一步事实认定。”\n\n还有一个很关键的地方：5739明确说，这次和解只在final forfeiture order继续有效时约束Luc；如果某项forfeiture被vacated或voided，Luc可以重新回来主张该资产属于bankruptcy estate。 5739.pdf\n\n这意味着5739并不是“Luc和刑事案彻底切断关系”。恰恰相反，它说明26-1853对forfeiture的结果会直接改变Luc的资产权利。 这一点非常适合告诉二巡，因为它说明刑事没收并不是一个孤立、没有外部产权冲突的终局问题。\n\n你们真正要争取的，我会概括成一句：\n\n不是让二巡替我们调查Luc，而是让二巡确认：在如此重大的跨程序ownership/victim冲突没有被充分澄清之前，南区是否能够安全地维持原来的sentence和forfeiture findings。\n\n如果再把你们说的那条证据链做实——同一报案人、同一proof of claim、在破产案被说成false claim，却在刑事案被用于victim/loss——那就比单独5739强很多。那时“remand for factual development”就不再只是猜测，而会有一个非常具体的矛盾作为基础。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf1974f3a212c9826189e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000146"}],"prev_batch_id":"batch-000145","next_batch_id":"batch-000147"}