{"id":"batch-000150","number":150,"revision":3,"date_start":"2026-08-21T20:56:09.706Z","date_end":"2026-08-24T20:10:58.522Z","total_messages":459,"summary_en":"Community discussion, batch 150 (Aug 21, 2026 – Aug 24, 2026), 459 messages, on the Guo Wengui / Miles Guo (Ho Wan Kwok) case. Batch 150 (Aug 21-24, 2026) focuses on money-trace disputes, procedural sequencing, and identity framing. Participants dispute whether 716-4 and filings like Dkt.858 and ECF 612, 643, 676, 734, 223, and 493 prove ownership facts or only describe flows, and whether CVRA, Section 853(n), and Section 3771 claims can run alongside forfeiture and restitution/remission discussions. The core conflict is whether G-series and Himalaya funds follow a single forfeiture narrative or remain contested across criminal, bankruptcy, and third-party ownership tracks. Community statements, not court findings.","guide_en":[{"title":"Information asymmetry on fund destinations: community says government can see more of the chain than investors can verify","description":"Participants argue there is an information asymmetry where authorities reference deeper flow chains while investors still lack verifiable, personal evidence of where their money eventually landed, and they dispute whether this affects the practical ability to support third-party claims. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q83f715cb4cdbde0db853","q156529e9f3405a8ff771","q89cf9e543bac48505b33"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q83f715cb4cdbde0db853","summary_en":"A participant says investors enter bankruptcy to prevent deposits from being treated as estate assets and says prosecutors still have not shared enough flow detail for investors to know where each payment went. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q156529e9f3405a8ff771","summary_en":"roy*** frames this as a hard transparency gap: government may have bank records and later-transfer chains, but investors cannot easily receive a personal trace from their own wire to a final destination, which is argued to burden third-party property claimants under Section 853(n) and due process fairness concerns. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q89cf9e543bac48505b33","summary_en":"hel*** says tracing is technically possible but fund-flow information remains one-sided, with investors seeing only their own outgoing transfers while not seeing where those funds went, and confirms personally wiring to Himalaya International Clearing Ltd at Metropolitan Commercial Bank. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"716-4 as a key turning point, but the evidence scope remains community-interpreted, especially for about $1.04 billion and 80+ accounts","description":"Participants contend 716-4 is treated as a major evidentiary anchor, while they still argue over its scope, especially the reach of the approximately $1.04 billion mapping claim and the claimed 80-plus-account chain. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q991656ab51eb21a6902b","q156529e9f3405a8ff771","qd6b569574205e303421d"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q991656ab51eb21a6902b","summary_en":"roy*** says 716-4 acknowledges government and investigative access to extensive bank records, reporting identification and attempted tracing of more than approximately $1.04 billion with at least 80 related accounts, plus large transfers from Himalaya Clearing through Prime Trust and multiple FV accounts. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q156529e9f3405a8ff771","summary_en":"The same participant says this creates a practical fairness issue because the community lacks individual trace reports from deposit to final location despite the government apparently holding fuller chains. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qd6b569574205e303421d","summary_en":"roy*** points to 716-4 pages 58-59 as an admitted example where around $3.4 million was sent to Himalaya International Clearing Ltd at Metropolitan Commercial Bank and later tracked to other destination accounts, treating that route as established in the filing rather than user speculation. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Himalaya/MCB pathway dispute: whether multiple remittances are consolidated into one chain","description":"Participants dispute whether Himalaya-to-MCB remittance patterns prove a single receipient chain, with debate over whether overlapping account identifiers and multiple senders establish one recoverable flow or just shared routing points. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qd6b569574205e303421d","q6cd4d8334637a4fc4f56","q963391759498f8b7de07"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qd6b569574205e303421d","summary_en":"roy*** states that a cited example in 716-4 shows Investor-2 routing about $3.4 million through Himalaya International Clearing into further traced accounts, which he uses to align with the Krungthai-Himalaya-MCB path. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q6cd4d8334637a4fc4f56","summary_en":"Another message maps that route to account 7801000254, says it was later seized with $14,599,257.25, and says multiple depositors reportedly used that same account, making the final beneficiary account number a key matching factor. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q963391759498f8b7de07","summary_en":"hel*** notes two identifiers tied to Himalaya/clearing records and asks whether those remittances are recoverable through Section 853(n), without asserting a final conclusion. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Some argue to collect all original remittance records first and match each transfer by time, amount, and beneficiary","description":"Participants contend that the safest workflow is evidence-first reconstruction: gather original transfer documents and match by timestamp, amount, beneficiary, bank, and identifiers before arguing status labels or legal pathways. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qe9cdce10b7d006c7b267","q6cd4d8334637a4fc4f56","q88e8bc04f2d718d5a83a"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qe9cdce10b7d006c7b267","summary_en":"roy*** asks investors to submit original remittance evidence so the group can map each payment from depositor to recipient account and then compare against forfeiture records, bankruptcy materials, and criminal tracking before making return or ownership conclusions. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q6cd4d8334637a4fc4f56","summary_en":"He repeatedly emphasizes account-level matching, citing account 7801000254 and another MBI10133-0000 as examples where precise beneficiary numbers and bank/Swift data could determine which seized account a depositor’s funds hit. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q88e8bc04f2d718d5a83a","summary_en":"roy*** adds a related procedural angle, saying Luc already sued Yongbing Zhang and that Fair Fund flows through a lawyer trust account can become frozen, which he says is plausible and supports the need for documentary sequencing. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"CVRA pivot to victim-rights line: from replacing Guo narrative to personal victim status, but not reopening the criminal merits","description":"Participants claim the community’s preferred route is to keep CVRA claims tightly limited to personal procedural protections, and they contend this is stronger than a broad argument seeking to overturn Guo’s criminal outcomes. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q3ee8acc35e78bb9c304f","q87ac0fcd99d1a735f80d","qb9ce49fcfd202f311fc5"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q3ee8acc35e78bb9c304f","summary_en":"roy*** advises that CVRA standing should be grounded in statutory victim rights such as fair treatment, notice, participation, and timely proceedings, and that it should be tied to specific personal harms rather than a general attack on prosecution or court errors by proxy. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q87ac0fcd99d1a735f80d","summary_en":"He proposes a four-step argument structure using Section 3771 language and warns that participants should avoid contradictory assertions that are inconsistent across CVRA filings and property filings. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qb9ce49fcfd202f311fc5","summary_en":"roy*** stresses a limiting point: CVRA is not a vehicle for a new trial under Section 3771(d)(5), so he argues the strongest position is CVRA rights review and relief, not full criminal record relitigation. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Disputed framing of victim status versus denying money/claims characterization","description":"Participants dispute whether one can hold simultaneous lines: claiming CVRA victim rights while separately disputing how specific funds, entities, or loss amounts are characterized. They contend these two tracks can be legally compatible if carefully worded. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q87ac0fcd99d1a735f80d","q0ec0189ea3352a70c5b3","qb9ce49fcfd202f311fc5"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q87ac0fcd99d1a735f80d","summary_en":"roy*** warns that saying both 'I am a victim' and 'I deny debtor characterization of all funds' can create a perceived inconsistency, and recommends language claiming CVRA standing while expressly disputing government classifications of particular funds and losses. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q0ec0189ea3352a70c5b3","summary_en":"He recommends replacing a 'victim means overturning conviction' slogan with a narrower argument: CVRA rights have been harmed for the claimant, and those harms can affect victim, loss, forfeiture, and sentencing records where those records overlap. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qb9ce49fcfd202f311fc5","summary_en":"roy*** repeats that CVRA must drive remedies tied to the claimant’s own rights and connects disputed factual findings to potential effects on broader criminal records without presenting CVRA as a full substitute for appellate review on guilt. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"CVRA and 853(n) as parallel questions: whether victim-procedure rights are halted by ancillary property proceedings","description":"Participants contend CVRA and Section 853(n) are separate mechanisms, and they dispute claims that active 853(n) motions or forfeiture phases automatically suspend CVRA standing or timing. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q71fa4ac2c16f0f4f6a88","q9e6aa67697c7bc8293c4","qee7825a056b5f27ef901"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q71fa4ac2c16f0f4f6a88","summary_en":"roy*** says CVRA does not disappear after sentencing or after a Section 853(n) filing, and argues unresolved CVRA motions should be decided under Section 3771 procedures with possible appellate mandamus review if denied. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q9e6aa67697c7bc8293c4","summary_en":"joh*** asks what remains of CVRA when Torres focuses on sentencing and forfeiture, implying concern that victim-procedure rights could be sidelined. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qee7825a056b5f27ef901","summary_en":"A user questions whether Section 853(n) is too narrow because it only talks about money and does not govern broader forfeiture outcomes. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Third-party property objections should use 853(n) not direct 5739 distribution, and parties contest whether that bypasses property adjudication","description":"Participants argue that third-party ownership claims should normally go through Section 853(n), and they dispute whether settlement channels like 5739 can substitute for a judge-led property-interest determination. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qdefd048fff1ba4b4b8da","q8a427277f535f1a671d6","q9d22df8229acbfb665e0"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qdefd048fff1ba4b4b8da","summary_en":"roy*** distinguishes Dkt.858 from a final courtwide forfeiture directive, saying it adjudicates Guo’s own forfeitable liabilities and money judgment while third-party specific-legal-interest claims are routed to Section 853(n) ancillary proceedings under its own structure. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q8a427277f535f1a671d6","summary_en":"reb*** argues a disconnect exists between 858 findings that certain flows are criminal proceeds and subsequent 5739/settlement outcomes assigning some G-series funds, saying the record lacks a neutral judge-led adjudication of competing title claims. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q9d22df8229acbfb665e0","summary_en":"joh*** compares this to the Mahwah agreement and claims the sequence can appear to assume forfeitable status first, then permit governmental-Luc negotiation before an explicit judicial property ruling. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Disagreement on mechanical forfeiture from conviction: some argue offense findings cannot automatically classify every fund as proceeds","description":"Participants dispute a strict 'conviction equals seizure of all funds' position, contending that criminal findings on offense and specific proceeds are not identical claims. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qc3b7ce6cd17fc737a73a","q513b01890a91937f7a26","qcafb93574b5d1d1d3a7a"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qc3b7ce6cd17fc737a73a","summary_en":"ntp*** says bankruptcy assets can still be treated as fraud-related, reflecting one side of the dispute over scope. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q513b01890a91937f7a26","summary_en":"joh*** says Luc may use criminal sentencing outcomes to support his claim that recovery in bankruptcy is consistent with the underlying criminal framework. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qcafb93574b5d1d1d3a7a","summary_en":"spr*** argues legally that a criminal offense is not automatically identical to proceeds attribution and that a jury conviction does not prove every related payment is government-claimable criminal property. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Overlap of criminal, bankruptcy, and third-party claims over one pool remains unresolved","description":"Participants dispute whether one fund pool has parallel rights in criminal, bankruptcy, and third-party channels, with one side seeing contamination and another treating those lanes as independent. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q1cf7d814044d06112abe","qd6d5ee2e0ec80482efbc","q66d57d7bfc5f74b38ae5"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q1cf7d814044d06112abe","summary_en":"kir*** states that this creates a conflict with the criminal proceeding. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qd6d5ee2e0ec80482efbc","summary_en":"joh*** warns that after sentencing, any return process in Luc’s bankruptcy may affect forfeiture timing because ownership and adversary proceedings are intertwined and unclear. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q66d57d7bfc5f74b38ae5","summary_en":"ntp*** responds that the bankruptcy issue is separate from the criminal matter, reflecting the contrary view in the same thread. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Return-route disagreement shifts between official narrative and petition/remission feasibility","description":"Participants contest whether official restitution-remission language is a full return pathway, arguing over whether petitions, petitions-once rules, and fairness expectations are being applied consistently. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q79ca7023a046b9a49e9b","qdd52761fe7db67265aad","q314bc9791b49b2059e2b"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q79ca7023a046b9a49e9b","summary_en":"beg*** cites DOJ’s stated posture: $8.89 billion forfeiture, direct restitution deemed impractical, and future remission to qualifying victims with prior petition filers not needing to refile. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qdd52761fe7db67265aad","summary_en":"The same participant contends prosecution framing may omit a simpler option and characterizes some seizures as an aggressive narrative rather than transparent accounting. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q314bc9791b49b2059e2b","summary_en":"joh*** references the bankruptcy context, suggesting that frozen property posture there limits what criminal-side actors can say in return discussions. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Dispute over Geyer independence, authority boundaries, and HEX/HID identity mapping","description":"Participants argue about Geyer’s role by highlighting both Rule 41(g) recovery posture and possible links to HEX onboarding systems, disputing whether his representation stayed purely independent or became jointly directed. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["qd389ddf789f5c6636422","q835954931dea65e5fb6b","q3f713bd08c3d0119e08a"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"qd389ddf789f5c6636422","summary_en":"roy*** says later ECF filings (including 514, 612, 643, 676) show a staged strategy: initial third-party property-return framing, HEX-client numbers around 3,539 to 3,575 with many confirmations, and then a move to combining forfeiture, ancillary, and remission routes without a single fixed identity label. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q835954931dea65e5fb6b","summary_en":"He adds that Geyer’s own filing language on 3,345 clients as distinct third-party interests is contrasted with ECF 223 from the government, which questions who was directing him and highlights dependence on HEX notifications and HID-based customer onboarding. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q3f713bd08c3d0119e08a","summary_en":"roy*** further details that HID-based client intake flowed through Himalayarestoration with identity verification in HEX systems, argues this conflicts with blanket independence claims, and cites 2023-2025 community and filing records showing the public framing centered on DOJ/SEC asset-recovery litigation. Community statements, not court findings."}]},{"title":"Execution and settlement boundary: immediate forfeiture enforcement versus settlement or ancillary allocation first","description":"Participants dispute whether DOJ should execute forfeiture as ordered or whether litigation over competing interests can justify negotiated allocation first, with opposing views on when settlement is procedurally allowed. Community statements, not court findings.","message_ids":["q4b3c6dbb39547f21d263","q1dc4cb1625f2586e72f5","qc36aa5d29b2c5d11fe93"],"quotes":[{"message_id":"q4b3c6dbb39547f21d263","summary_en":"reb*** contends the government should execute forfeiture directly and not bargain when disputes arise, arguing that property challenged as non-Guo should be pushed into civil ancillary proceedings and that executive settlement is not costless. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"q1dc4cb1625f2586e72f5","summary_en":"joh*** describes the process as forcibly seized, suggesting a sentiment that enforcement feels coercive. Community statements, not court findings."},{"message_id":"qc36aa5d29b2c5d11fe93","summary_en":"reb*** says Torres has already found inflows to be criminal proceeds and then argues if that point is uncontested the government should execute without settlement dilution, reflecting the opposite view to delayed allocation. Community statements, not court findings."}]}],"summary":"讨论围绕该案核心在于三条线的交叠与边界：其一资金流证据链，争论政府披露与投资者可核验资料差距，尤其首笔/中间链条与最终受益归属的证据标准；其二程序性路线，CVRA、§853(n)、Dkt.858、5739/9019等是否应按谁先行、谁有管辖来推进；其三叙事与身份问题，围绕“受害者主张”与授权范围如何避免自我定性冲突，以及Geyer等中介是否真正独立并具备正当代理依据。多数观点仍停留在“先立证再推论”，共识不足于“定罪即没收”或“单一返还通道”结论。","guide":[{"title":"资金去向信息不对称：社区认为政府可见链条与投资者缺少可核验个人到账证据并存","message_ids":["q83f715cb4cdbde0db853","q156529e9f3405a8ff771","q89cf9e543bac48505b33"]},{"title":"716-4被视为关键转折证据，但真实性与外延仍以社区解读为主，尤其涉及约1.04亿和80+账户","message_ids":["q991656ab51eb21a6902b","q156529e9f3405a8ff771","qd6b569574205e303421d"]},{"title":"Himalaya/MCB路径争议：是否多人汇款归集到同账？对“单一受款链条”仍存在明显分歧","message_ids":["qd6b569574205e303421d","q6cd4d8334637a4fc4f56","q963391759498f8b7de07"]},{"title":"部分观点主张先汇总全部原始汇款底单，再按时间金额受益人逐笔匹配，避免先下定论","message_ids":["qe9cdce10b7d006c7b267","q6cd4d8334637a4fc4f56","q88e8bc04f2d718d5a83a"]},{"title":"CVRA转向受害者权利主线：从替郭叙事转为个人受害者身份，但仍强调不能当作重开刑审路径","message_ids":["q3ee8acc35e78bb9c304f","q87ac0fcd99d1a735f80d","qb9ce49fcfd202f311fc5"]},{"title":"围绕“有无受害者身份”与“否认资金/债权定性”存在表述冲突：既要保留财产权主张又不愿自限","message_ids":["q87ac0fcd99d1a735f80d","q0ec0189ea3352a70c5b3","qb9ce49fcfd202f311fc5"]},{"title":"CVRA与853(n)并行问题持续争论：受害人程序权是否会因财产附属程序而中止","message_ids":["q71fa4ac2c16f0f4f6a88","q9e6aa67697c7bc8293c4","qee7825a056b5f27ef901"]},{"title":"第三方财产异议是否应走853(n)附属程序而非直接进入5739分配，是否跳过产权裁决","message_ids":["qdefd048fff1ba4b4b8da","q8a427277f535f1a671d6","q9d22df8229acbfb665e0"]},{"title":"对“定罪=全部款项可直接没收”分歧明显，部分坚持不能机械化套用刑事定性进行财产归属","message_ids":["qc3b7ce6cd17fc737a73a","q513b01890a91937f7a26","qcafb93574b5d1d1d3a7a"]},{"title":"刑事、破产与第三方主张并行是否成立未定：对同一资金池是否有多方并列权利长期争论","message_ids":["q1cf7d814044d06112abe","qd6d5ee2e0ec80482efbc","q66d57d7bfc5f74b38ae5"]},{"title":"返还路径分歧在“官方叙事、已有petition与restitution/remission可行性”间切换，修辞与法律可执行性不一","message_ids":["q79ca7023a046b9a49e9b","qdd52761fe7db67265aad","q314bc9791b49b2059e2b"]},{"title":"围绕Geyer相关独立性、授权边界与身份映射争议：HEX/HID链条与victim claim是否构成越权","message_ids":["qd389ddf789f5c6636422","q835954931dea65e5fb6b","q3f713bd08c3d0119e08a"]},{"title":"执行与和解边界继续拉锯：是否必须先执行没收再裁决，或可按司法裁量先行分配与和解","message_ids":["q4b3c6dbb39547f21d263","q1dc4cb1625f2586e72f5","qc36aa5d29b2c5d11fe93"]}],"closed":true,"is_finalized":true,"updated_at":"2026-09-06T19:36:40.123Z","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_batch","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150","base_batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000150","page":1,"page_size":200,"total_pages":3,"has_more":true,"next_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-batches/batch-000150?page=2","prev_url":null,"messages":[{"id":"q83f715cb4cdbde0db853","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":1,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-21T20:56:09.706Z","text":"投资人介入破产案当然不是去做受害者要钱，而是去阻止luc把投资划为破产资产，保护投资的安全。检方至今也没有提供详细的投资资金流动情况，投资人很难搞清楚自己的投资到底去了哪里，现在在哪里","edited":false,"reply_to":"q77ca7b2ead8dbcd89b26","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q83f715cb4cdbde0db853","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q77ca7b2ead8dbcd89b26","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q58c9967bbd67163a798a","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":2,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-08-21T21:40:48.321Z","text":"［用户 roy***］ \n如果有部份資金匯入了FBI提供的凍結帳戶里，一部份在九指妖的Maywing里，另外一部份在其他混同的資金里。\n\n具體操作應該怎樣處理最好？🙏🙏🙏","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q58c9967bbd67163a798a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q75f7877475711166fdb6","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":3,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T21:41:51.787Z","text":"我现在在查我手上的具体汇款凭证给了AI，让他找去了哪里","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q75f7877475711166fdb6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qff7c90c1ee7d9f9544c9","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":4,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-08-21T21:43:51.219Z","text":"你的AI這麼厲害👍能查到嗎？\n如果能查到那就太牛了，我也要訂一個來幫助自己👍👍👍😊","edited":false,"reply_to":"q75f7877475711166fdb6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qff7c90c1ee7d9f9544c9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q75f7877475711166fdb6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q991656ab51eb21a6902b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":5,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T21:58:21.087Z","text":"最关键的新点是：716-4不仅承认政府和FBI/SEC掌握了大量银行记录，而且明确说他们已经“identified and attempted to trace more than approximately $1.04 billion”的投资计划资金交易，并识别出至少80多个相关银行账户。也就是说，完整的“第二跳、第三跳以后”资金图，普通投资人手里没有，但政府自己事实上有相当一部分。 716-4.pdf\n\n更重要的是，716-4把Himalaya这一条画得非常清楚。政府说，3763 FV Account就是Himalaya International Clearing的FV Bank账户；2022年2月至3月，它向Prime Trust转出约1.6亿美元；2022年3月至5月，又向2119和8239两个FV账户转出约1.9亿美元。也就是说，Himalaya Clearing收进来的投资人钱，确实发生了大规模后续流转。 716-4.pdf","edited":false,"reply_to":"qff7c90c1ee7d9f9544c9","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q991656ab51eb21a6902b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qff7c90c1ee7d9f9544c9","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q156529e9f3405a8ff771","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":6,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T21:58:49.809Z","text":"这就产生一个很硬的问题：\n\n政府既然已经掌握了Himalaya Clearing的银行流水和后续转账，为什么真正出钱的具体投资人却拿不到一份“你这笔钱后来被追踪到哪里”的说明？\n\n这不代表政府法律上一定负有主动为每个投资人做个人会计报告的义务，但从§853(n)和due process角度，它至少会引出一个很现实的困难：\n\n第三方产权人要主张specific legal interest，却被要求自己完成一条只有政府掌握完整流水才能真正完成的追踪链。\n\n这就是现在最值得抓的“信息不对称”。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q156529e9f3405a8ff771","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qd6b569574205e303421d","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":7,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T21:59:25.002Z","text":"716-4第58—59页用Investor-2举例。政府自己记载，该投资人明确要求把约340万美元汇给 Himalaya International Clearing Ltd at Metropolitan Commercial Bank；后来政府又把这类投资资金追到其他目标账户。 716-4.pdf\n\n这说明你朋友这种“Krungthai → Himalaya International Clearing → MCB”的路径，正是政府自己已经承认、已经追踪过的标准投资路径，不是她自己臆测出来的。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd6b569574205e303421d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q89cf9e543bac48505b33","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":8,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-08-21T22:19:11.470Z","text":"如今AI如此智能的時代，政府完全可以輕鬆追到資金的路徑。\n\n信息嚴重不對稱，投資者很難追查自己的資金流向。\n\nHimalaya International Clearing Ltd at Metropolitan Commercial Bank，這間我也有匯過款。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q156529e9f3405a8ff771","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q89cf9e543bac48505b33","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q156529e9f3405a8ff771","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q6cd4d8334637a4fc4f56","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":9,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T22:28:50.425Z","text":"公开卷宗里已经能确认：这条收款路径对应过账户 7801000254，而且后来被政府扣押。 多份SDNY材料把它写成：\n\nHimalaya International Clearing Ltd\nMetropolitan Commercial Bank\nAccount No. 7801000254\n\n之后政府把同一编号账户列为FV Bank名下的Himalaya Clearing账户，并扣押了 $14,599,257.25。\n\n而且不是只有一个人这样汇。公开的第三方petition里，已经有其他投资人写明自己多次把钱汇到：\n\nMetropolitan Commercial Bank account 7801000254, managed by Himalaya International Clearing Ltd\n\n例如有人2022年1月至3月多次汇款，另有人2022年1月和4月也汇到这个相同账户。\n\n所以你那个群友如果说：\n\n“我也汇过 Himalaya International Clearing Ltd at Metropolitan Commercial Bank”\n\n这个信息本身已经很值得查。\n\n现在最关键的是他底单上的 beneficiary account number。\n\n如果也是：\n\n7801000254\n\n那么可以直接确认：\n\n群友本人汇款\n→ Himalaya International Clearing Ltd\n→ Metropolitan Commercial Bank 7801000254\n→ 政府后来扣押同一编号的Himalaya Clearing账户。\n\n而政府后来的没收清单明确记录了这个账户被扣押 $14.599 million。\n\n还有一个容易让人疑惑的地方：为什么汇款时写 Metropolitan Commercial Bank，后来没收文件却写 FV Bank？\n\n公开材料显示，Himalaya相关资金确实经过Metropolitan Commercial Bank体系，而政府后来又直接对FV Bank名下的Himalaya子账户实施扣押；所以这两个银行名称出现在同一资金链上并不矛盾。另有政府资金追踪材料明确描述，从Metropolitan Commercial Bank账户中的Investment Scheme Funds继续流入后来被扣押的Himalaya账户。\n\n所以现在你只需要让这个群友给你一张汇款底单，不用发很多东西。我只看六项：\n\n收款人、收款账号、收款银行、SWIFT、汇款日期、金额。\n\n如果他的账号是 7801000254，我基本可以马上给你做到账户级匹配。\n\n如果不是7801000254，也别急，因为公开卷宗里Himalaya Clearing还有另外一个被政府扣押的 MBI10133-0000，金额约 $10.008 million。\n\n也就是说，他给我具体账号后，我可以继续判断究竟命中了哪个政府扣押账户。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q89cf9e543bac48505b33","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6cd4d8334637a4fc4f56","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q89cf9e543bac48505b33","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q963391759498f8b7de07","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":10,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-08-21T22:36:27.453Z","text":"正是一個：7801000254\n另一個：Himalaya Clearing\n你的AI好厲害👍👍👍🙏🙏🙏\n\n是否等於這兩筆錢都可以適用853 n去追回？🙏","edited":false,"reply_to":"q6cd4d8334637a4fc4f56","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q963391759498f8b7de07","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6cd4d8334637a4fc4f56","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qe9cdce10b7d006c7b267","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":11,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T22:38:55.490Z","text":"请所有投过G系列、Himalaya Exchange、G Club、Farm等项目的群友，尽量找一下自己当年的原始汇款凭证。\n\n我们现在不是统计谁是“受害者”，也不是让大家去登记受害者要赔偿，而是在做一件更基础的事情：\n\n把真实投资人的钱到底汇去了哪里，一笔一笔重新拼出来。\n\n现在已经发现一个非常重要的情况：\n\n不同投资人的原始银行底单，已经出现汇入同一个Himalaya Clearing账户的情况。\n\n例如：\n\nHimalaya International Clearing Ltd.\nAccount No. 7801000254\n\n这个账户后来进入了美国政府的扣押/没收程序。\n\n所以请大家不要只说“我以前也投过”，而是尽量把原始银行汇款凭证找出来。\n\n我们重点需要：\n\n1. 汇款日期\n2. 汇款金额\n3. Beneficiary / 收款人名称\n4. Beneficiary Account Number / 收款账号\n5. Receiving Bank / 收款银行\n6. SWIFT/BIC\n7. 如果有MT103、Transaction ID、Reference Number，也一起提供\n8. 如果是USDT、HDO等数字资产，提供Transaction ID、钱包地址、平台入账记录和相关聊天确认\n\n不用自己研究资金后来去了哪里。\n\n你只要把当年的原始凭证找出来发给我，我统一整理，再逐笔对照美国政府公开的扣押/没收账户、刑事案资金追踪材料、Luc破产案5739和相关诉讼。\n\n最后我们希望做出一张：\n\n真实投资人 → 原始汇款 → 收款实体 → 收款账户 → 后续资金流 → 政府没收资产 / Luc破产资产\n\n的资金地图。\n\n现在最大的问题就是信息严重不对称：投资人通常只能看到自己把钱汇到了哪里，却看不到收款以后第二跳、第三跳去了哪里；而政府和受托人通过银行调查、传票等掌握了大量后续资金资料。\n\n所以我们先把大家手里的第一手原始证据集中起来。\n\n特别提醒：\n\n如果有人汇过\nHimalaya International Clearing Ltd / 7801000254，\n请重点告诉我。\n\n其他Himalaya Clearing、G Club、Farm、GTV等账号也全部要，不要因为账号不同就觉得没用。\n\n隐私方面：发群里时不要公开身份证、住址、完整个人银行账号。可以私下把原始凭证给我整理；公开汇总时只保留投资人编号、日期、金额、收款实体、收款账户后四位等必要信息。\n\n先找证据，不急着写动议。\n\n等资金地图拼出来以后，再看哪些人的钱能够直接对应政府没收账户、哪些对应Luc正在追的资产、哪些资金至今没有公开解释去向。\n\n我建议你们现在就按这个方法收。不要让大家先写自己的故事，第一阶段只收原始资金凭证。这样最容易发现多个投资人的钱汇进同一个账户的聚集点。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe9cdce10b7d006c7b267","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q9cf23067ee813b87e8f7","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":12,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-22T00:07:10.517Z","text":"Luc说债务人申请破产后进入相关实体的资金，属于破产财产。这里指的是，至少包括，在债务人申请破产后，进入g系列的投资款。根据第11章破产，受托人有权接管债务人实际控制的实体，但在康州破产法院这个粪坑里，luc的操作是，它认为属于债务人属于控制，它就接管，实际上它就是接管了。所以债务人自己也在破产案里说，这部分要么从金钱判决里扣除，要么要转移给政府。就是luc追回来给政府，然后郭被从G enterprise 摘除来，真正的诈骗犯进去。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9cf23067ee813b87e8f7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q3a7c370c153829df7f3b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":13,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-22T00:22:02.677Z","text":"感觉它们这么一顿表演下来，是把人们赶过去登记remission ，然后luc追的款也会被划过去。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3a7c370c153829df7f3b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q27d38bf8ec32beaa1715","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":14,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-08-22T00:38:25.407Z","text":"喜交所的资金不是853n, 这个资金甚至要优先于853N，这种资金，盖尔，喜交所，汉密尔顿，都没有打得清楚明白打好，所以被托雷死找853n的理由驳回了，后期提853N托雷死甚至根本都没理","edited":false,"reply_to":"q89cf9e543bac48505b33","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q27d38bf8ec32beaa1715","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q89cf9e543bac48505b33","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q6d58fe94fc857c15adaa","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":15,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-08-22T00:43:47.019Z","text":"[删节：成员身份]   853N都被法院书记官交到检方，他们没憋好心，853n应该是法院处理，根本不需要检方审查，他们不但不给restuition，连853n 也不想给","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6d58fe94fc857c15adaa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q4fd83f078fc3aeabf519","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":16,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-22T01:16:46.047Z","text":"但另一个可能性更合理，如果投资者不妥协，接受这个可以拿回一部分的现实，因为luc说不参与remission 。它们还是会走之前的剧本，以资金混同为由，在remission 环节分给luc，因为它们在协议里说了，如果协议被挑战，luc会重新主张利益。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3a7c370c153829df7f3b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4fd83f078fc3aeabf519","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3a7c370c153829df7f3b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q88e8bc04f2d718d5a83a","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":17,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T01:17:16.543Z","text":"我还发现一个现在最值得注意的是“被冻结”这一段\n\n我目前查到一个非常重要、但还不能直接画等号的事实：\n\n2024年3月，Luc确实单独起诉了Yongbing Zhang和Law Offices of Yongbing Zhang。\n\nLuc的诉状明确把：\n\n* Yongbing Zhang\n* Law Offices of Yongbing Zhang / ZYB & Associates LLC\n\n列为被告，并寻求追回他认为属于郭文贵破产体系的转账。\n\n而且张永兵之后还被纳入更大的 Adv. Proc. 24-05273，与GTV Media Group、G Club Operations等一批实体一起成为Trustee诉讼对象。\n\n因此你说的：\n\n“我们的Fair Fund钱因为进张律师信托账户，后来又被法庭冻了”\n\n在机制上完全有可能发生，而且有相当强的外围证据。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q88e8bc04f2d718d5a83a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q38504bad29d786b0d985","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":18,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-22T01:40:51.240Z","text":"有条件的，可以去破产法院那个粪坑，说luc和美国无权就第三方的争议财产达成协议，财产属于投资者，属于债务人，属于郭家人还是因为被告们通过犯罪获得的个人财产从而属于政府，都没有被司法最终确认。如果没人去反对，就可以说相关方已经默认，曼宁就可以云淡风轻的批准。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4fd83f078fc3aeabf519","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q38504bad29d786b0d985","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4fd83f078fc3aeabf519","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qdbd7b8507df5403ae4bd","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":19,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T01:41:32.754Z","text":"我有这个打算去，实际大家都可以去","edited":false,"reply_to":"q38504bad29d786b0d985","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdbd7b8507df5403ae4bd","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q38504bad29d786b0d985","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q46894a1999ab239ee46a","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":20,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-22T01:45:26.961Z","text":"现在，郭本人，郭家人，灭共演员代表夏其东，其它利益相关方，比如那个亚马逊，都介入了。不知道亚马逊怎么还卷入了破产案。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q46894a1999ab239ee46a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q2ea8b3635520fab1e9ec","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":21,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T01:52:53.823Z","text":"[删节：成员身份]  填写虚假债权的 可以要求法官撤销luc受托人资格 1: luc在刑事庭被指控用破产庭债权人登记 司法欺诈刑事庭的三位地区法官  三位二巡法官 影响极其恶劣 要求曼宁法官撤销受托人资格 2: luc和gongzu julia 率先填写虚假债权 要求取消所有债权","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2ea8b3635520fab1e9ec","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q99678c749176d9f1439a","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":22,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T01:54:40.850Z","text":"这个我同意\n表演一遍，表面luc暂时不去介入刑事案，但其实是和检方，一起绕圈圈，目的是把G系列14亿，先拿在手里，再决定怎么分","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3a7c370c153829df7f3b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q99678c749176d9f1439a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3a7c370c153829df7f3b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qc1a6c7f81eb5afbb94f8","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":23,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-08-22T02:09:59.859Z","text":"这样写太弱了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q38504bad29d786b0d985","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc1a6c7f81eb5afbb94f8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q38504bad29d786b0d985","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q814d00afdc57ab977c9a","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":24,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-22T02:13:43.811Z","text":"您可以写个更强的版本分享给大家。比如，提交证据证明，luc，拱卒，朱莉娅，实际上已经成了中共的未注册代理人。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc1a6c7f81eb5afbb94f8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q814d00afdc57ab977c9a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc1a6c7f81eb5afbb94f8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q4058f6db93e08007536b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":25,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T02:23:39.633Z","text":"喜交所资金，优先853n，然后6000人被盖尔代理，最后还是走853i\n盖尔不止是 [删节：隐私信息] [删节：隐私信息]它爹，也是你爹","edited":true,"reply_to":"q27d38bf8ec32beaa1715","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4058f6db93e08007536b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q27d38bf8ec32beaa1715","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q3a5f4247f4a48414cfde","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":26,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T02:28:35.002Z","text":"张和他的律师楼，对抗luc，然后luc起诉他，这样张就有理由，说公平基金退到他那里的钱，被冻结，最后被luc追回，分给破产案债权人","edited":false,"reply_to":"q88e8bc04f2d718d5a83a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3a5f4247f4a48414cfde","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q88e8bc04f2d718d5a83a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q6da131743b662ba2ef87","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":27,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T02:30:39.570Z","text":"这个套路就是，委托给张收款的投资者，钱被张扣住，等着luc来起诉他，把钱再冻结，最后划到破产案池子","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6da131743b662ba2ef87","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q13a2ba22191a2b29bbd0","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":28,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T02:33:40.747Z","text":"公平基金，退款到投资者个人账户的，luc没办法追，因为这些个人又不是300骨干，没有收G系列的outflow\n委托给张，就是钱才从sec出来，又进了共谋犯的口袋，luc只追共谋犯的账户，而不用理会账户资金来源","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q13a2ba22191a2b29bbd0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q5068725b1f678e727467","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":29,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T02:34:02.943Z","text":"853n很难赢，remission遥遥无期，战友们想回本还早着呢","edited":false,"reply_to":"q6d58fe94fc857c15adaa","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5068725b1f678e727467","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6d58fe94fc857c15adaa","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q842b2bac29b8abe18629","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":30,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T02:34:45.555Z","text":"当然真战友估计也没几个","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q842b2bac29b8abe18629","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qa6ff1d9fd5d95d3b584a","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":31,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T02:35:02.288Z","text":"钱被美国政府冻结着挺好","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa6ff1d9fd5d95d3b584a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q71a258f523d71825aa89","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":32,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T02:37:46.171Z","text":"这几句暴露了 [删节：隐私信息] [删节：成员身份]的属性\n巴不得资产被冻结到死\n破产案300骨干拿不到G系列，那么投资人也别想拿到","edited":true,"reply_to":"q842b2bac29b8abe18629","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q71a258f523d71825aa89","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q842b2bac29b8abe18629","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q7253385353b770ab17fd","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":33,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-22T02:49:30.583Z","text":"这个地方，是不是应该是张有直接从g系列实体直接拿过钱，所以sec到张那里的钱才可以被luc追。如果张之前没有拿过钱，luc就没有理由追张。","edited":false,"reply_to":"q13a2ba22191a2b29bbd0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7253385353b770ab17fd","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q13a2ba22191a2b29bbd0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qe184f5f2d69d4f0d1ca7","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":34,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T02:49:48.925Z","text":"是的\n他之前在联盟有职位，应该有领工资，类似Qmay从法治基金领钱","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7253385353b770ab17fd","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe184f5f2d69d4f0d1ca7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7253385353b770ab17fd","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q9d408700bf868668529f","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":35,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T02:52:21.616Z","text":"https://x.com/dDiVul8m3g82864/status/2090839290356146240","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9d408700bf868668529f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q8dfb1a0984186ada1046","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":36,"speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-08-22T02:53:51.102Z","text":"那麼多拿了法制基金錢的最後會怎樣？會不會跟檢方合作簽了免起訴協議就可以袋袋平安？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8dfb1a0984186ada1046","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qfa1455419a728b859a76","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":37,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T02:56:01.141Z","text":"根本没几个人和检方签免起诉协议吧？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8dfb1a0984186ada1046","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfa1455419a728b859a76","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8dfb1a0984186ada1046","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qf00652dc73b8f484d4dc","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":38,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T03:04:58.240Z","text":"想多了\n集体做伪证，导致G集团诈骗案成\n案子重审，这些协议都是无效\n这些人都要被拉回court","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8dfb1a0984186ada1046","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf00652dc73b8f484d4dc","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8dfb1a0984186ada1046","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q9acac1f15ca8cf9577dd","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":39,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T03:06:46.624Z","text":"所以你也诅咒投资者，都拿不到钱，对不","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9acac1f15ca8cf9577dd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q2b7de4231dcd8e458a3f","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":40,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-22T03:09:30.720Z","text":"Luc除了它的基础不成立外，其它的逻辑都很清晰，只要从g系列以及法治基金法治社会拿了钱，就是代持，就是欺诈转移或者可撤销转让，全部都可以追。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe184f5f2d69d4f0d1ca7","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2b7de4231dcd8e458a3f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe184f5f2d69d4f0d1ca7","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qae24230c5823a36b3c5e","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":41,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T03:12:02.490Z","text":"所以，300骨干，都跑不掉\n［用户 him***］ 安小东 卯卯兔 作为西班牙农场的骨干，真实信息收款账户，应该也在luc的小本本吧🤣 🤣 🤣","edited":true,"reply_to":"q2b7de4231dcd8e458a3f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qae24230c5823a36b3c5e","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2b7de4231dcd8e458a3f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qefdc97e32e52257d7898","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":42,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T03:28:13.997Z","text":"我发现了，一个从来没被人提到的前农场主注册的公司用来收款的，也被LUC盯着，这个农场早就忽然解散的了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qefdc97e32e52257d7898","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q2e733a585dab5974995c","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":43,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T03:30:27.981Z","text":"很多这样的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qefdc97e32e52257d7898","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2e733a585dab5974995c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qefdc97e32e52257d7898","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q34507ac83b5bc819da6f","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":44,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T03:32:33.016Z","text":"300骨干想拿法治基金的钱，就必须逃脱luc的追款","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q34507ac83b5bc819da6f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q7ab5c2e8625535427ca8","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":45,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T03:33:34.814Z","text":"破产案luc要追款，又要依据刑事案量刑，rico G集团，300骨干","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7ab5c2e8625535427ca8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qdd5de64e83970887803a","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":46,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T03:35:34.482Z","text":"300骨干在luc那里，又登记了债权人","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdd5de64e83970887803a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qf4a4fc5327eb147fcc8b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":47,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T03:37:09.308Z","text":"也就是，破产案里luc追300骨干的钱，再拿给1800债权人(包括300骨干)","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf4a4fc5327eb147fcc8b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qc2378553cdfa9f66c8d4","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":48,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T03:40:07.476Z","text":"本来300骨干，也愿意，因为原本指望破产案luc，把刑事案14亿都拿到手，在分给他们","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc2378553cdfa9f66c8d4","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qfc07aea637cb93b6c5f0","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":49,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T03:43:15.385Z","text":"现在luc要和刑事案检方和解，而luc目前控制的钱，也被他律师楼，挥霍差不多了，能给到登记债权人的，不多了，300骨干不答应啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfc07aea637cb93b6c5f0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q869d85bd842c0167f2c5","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":50,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T03:44:34.957Z","text":"难怪 ［用户 him***］ 巴不得刑事案资产，继续被冻结，因为破产案债权人的她，捞不到了🤣","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q869d85bd842c0167f2c5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q2a9cd3ba028661055167","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":51,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T04:00:44.556Z","text":"把5739、5744、两个objection再给我完整原件  ，谁可以有","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2a9cd3ba028661055167","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q35487c46d3486eea9cad","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":52,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T04:02:59.926Z","text":"这是要钱方面，那么对郭翻案有不利？\n\n有潜在不利，但可以通过“身份和请求彻底分开”把风险降到很低。\n\n真正的风险不是你去要钱本身，而是你如果在破产法院写成：\n\n“我是郭的受害者/债权人，郭欠我这些钱，请从破产财产里赔我。”\n\n这会被政府以后拿来反过来说：\n\n你自己都承认这些损失是郭造成的、这些钱属于郭的债务体系。\n\n这对你帮郭挑战“victim/loss/ownership叙事”当然不利。\n\n但如果你去破产法院的文件写成：\n\n“我不是在此承认自己是Debtor的一般债权人，也不承认这些资金当然属于Debtor或estate。我只是主张我作为第三方，对可识别资金/资产拥有独立法律权益，并要求任何5739和解不得预断、消灭或转移我的权利。”\n\n那就不一样了。\n\n这甚至可能对郭案有帮助，因为你会在破产法院正式留下一个record：\n\n真实投资人本人正在否认‘这些钱当然就是郭的财产/郭的债务’，并要求先审理第三方产权。\n\n这恰好支持你们一直在打的那个问题：资金性质和第三方ownership并没有天然确定。\n\n所以你要把两条线卡死：\n\n追回钱的文件：只讲你的独立property interest、tracing、reservation of rights。\n帮郭的文件：再去讲政府是否把未裁决的ownership、alter ego、creditor/victim主张提前当成刑事事实。\n\n最危险的三句话以后都尽量不要出现在你的财产权文件里：\n\n“I am a victim of Guo’s fraud.”\n“Guo owes me $X.”\n“My investment loss was caused by Guo.”\n\n除非你某个具体程序必须这样表述，而且我们已经评估过后果。\n\n更稳的表述是：\n\n“Petitioner does not concede that the funds at issue were property of the Debtor, criminal proceeds, or property of the bankruptcy estate. Petitioner asserts an independent third-party interest and seeks only preservation and adjudication of that interest.”\n\n所以结论很简单：\n\n去保护自己的钱，不等于伤害郭。\n承认‘我是郭诈骗受害者、郭欠我钱’，才可能伤害你们翻案路线。\n\n如果我们把破产法院文件写成“limited objection + reservation of rights + no concession”，它反而可以成为你们以后证明第三方产权争议真实存在的一块新record。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q35487c46d3486eea9cad","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qdec983d552abdb7440b8","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":53,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T04:08:02.869Z","text":"［用户 roy***］  我是郭诈骗受害者 所以我有cvra standing 我发现检方法官违规 这样的思路呢","edited":true,"reply_to":"q35487c46d3486eea9cad","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdec983d552abdb7440b8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q35487c46d3486eea9cad","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q3ee8acc35e78bb9c304f","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":54,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T04:12:01.476Z","text":"这个思路比“我不是受害者、我只是第三方产权人”更适合你在刑事案里做CVRA路线，但一定要把边界卡准。\n\n最核心的一点是：\n\n“我是郭案的crime victim，所以我有CVRA standing”\n\n不等于\n\n“所以我可以代替郭攻击检方和法官的一切违法。”\n\nCVRA给你的，是为了保护你自己的法定受害者权利去挑战程序错误的资格。也就是说，最好把每一个“检方/法官违规”都接回到：\n\n这个违规具体怎么侵害了我的CVRA权利？\n\n比如这几类就比较顺：\n\n检方把未经核实的claimants当成victims，影响你的公平对待、准确赔偿、参与程序；\n检方隐瞒或错误呈现资金流，导致你的钱被错误归类，影响你的property/restitution/remission利益；\n法院在未解决重大victim/loss争议时继续量刑，影响你的right to be reasonably heard、fairness、restitution-related rights；\n法院长期不docket或不处理你的CVRA motion，影响你参与和被听取的权利；\n政府把未经裁判的破产主张当作已确认事实使用，导致你的身份、损失金额、资金性质被错误决定。\n\n这种写法就很强，因为你不是说：\n\n“检方违反Brady，所以我要替郭撤案。”\n\n而是说：\n\n“检方使用不可靠或未裁判的事实，直接影响了我的victim status、loss classification、property rights和参与权，因此我有资格要求法院纠正。”\n\n然后再进一步说：\n\n“同一错误如果也污染了起诉、审判、没收或量刑记录，法院不能因为我不是被告就完全无视这个事实。”\n\n这一步很重要。\n\n你真正要打的是：\n\n我的standing来自我自己的伤害；\n但我要求法院审查的错误，可能同时影响整个刑事record。\n\n这个结构比：\n\n“我是受害者，所以我可以替郭翻案”\n\n稳很多。","edited":false,"reply_to":"qdec983d552abdb7440b8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ee8acc35e78bb9c304f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdec983d552abdb7440b8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q87ac0fcd99d1a735f80d","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":55,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T04:12:13.982Z","text":"你可以把逻辑写成四层\n\n第一层：\n\n我是 18 U.S.C. §3771(e) 意义上的crime victim。\n\n第二层：\n\n我主张的是我自己的CVRA权利：fair treatment、reasonable protection、notice、participation、being heard、restitution-related rights等。\n\n第三层：\n\n检方/法院的某个具体行为直接损害这些权利。\n\n第四层：\n\n这个违规同时进入了刑事案件的重要事实基础，因此不能被简单视为“只有被告才能提出的问题”。\n\n这才是你最有力的版本。\n\n不过有一个风险你必须注意：\n\n如果你一边在CVRA文件里写：\n\n“我是郭诈骗受害者。”\n\n另一边又在产权文件里写：\n\n“我的钱并不是郭的犯罪所得，我不承认自己是郭的债权人。”\n\n政府可能会拿这两种表述攻击你“立场矛盾”。\n\n所以以后应该统一成一个更精确的说法：\n\n“I qualify as a crime victim for purposes of asserting my CVRA rights, while expressly disputing the Government’s characterization of specific funds, entities, ownership interests, and loss calculations.”\n\n中文就是：\n\n“我作为CVRA意义上的受害者主张法定权利，但我明确保留对具体资金、实体、产权归属和损失计算方式的异议。”\n\n这就把两条线兼容起来了。\n\n你可以同时说：\n\n我受到这个案件相关行为的直接伤害，因此有CVRA standing；\n\n但我不承认政府对每一笔钱、每一个实体、每一项loss的定性都是正确的。\n\n这在逻辑上并不冲突。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q87ac0fcd99d1a735f80d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q0ec0189ea3352a70c5b3","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":56,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T04:12:29.572Z","text":"所以我建议你以后不要再把核心口号写成：\n\n“我是郭诈骗受害者，所以我能帮郭翻案。”\n\n而写成：\n\n“我是CVRA crime victim，因此我有权要求法院审查那些直接影响我自身权利的检方和司法行为；如果这些行为同时污染了刑事案件的victim、loss、forfeiture或sentencing record，法院必须面对这种后果。”\n\n这个版本明显更强。\n\n而且和你们现在正在建立的MOS loan、G Club membership funds、GTV shares、H-Coin、third-party ownership证据链能够自然接起来。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ec0189ea3352a70c5b3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q9e90556457f9083ff767","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":57,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T04:18:45.692Z","text":"大家行动起来","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9e90556457f9083ff767","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qb9ce49fcfd202f311fc5","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":58,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T04:22:51.550Z","text":"继续往下推，我觉得你这条 “我是CVRA受害者，因此我有standing去指出检方/法院如何侵犯我的受害者权利；这些违规又可能污染刑事record”，确实是你以后最应该坚持的结构。\n\n但这里有一个非常重要的上限：CVRA不能直接变成“受害者替被告申请新审判/撤销定罪”的通行证。 §3771(d)(5)明确写着，CVRA权利被侵犯本身不能作为new trial的依据；而且近年的上诉法院也反复强调，CVRA mandamus只能审查“受害者自己的法定权利有没有被拒绝”，不能无限扩张成对刑事案件实体判决的全面上诉。\n\n所以你最强的打法不是：\n\n“我是受害者，因此我要替郭撤销全部判决。”\n\n而是：\n\n“我是受害者，因此法院必须处理我的CVRA权利主张。为判断这些权利是否被侵犯，法院必须面对某些具体事实错误；而这些事实错误恰好也进入了loss、victim、forfeiture或sentencing record。”\n\n这样就把“standing来源”和“案件后果”分开了。\n\n你可以把每个问题都做成这个公式\n\nCVRA权利 → 具体政府/法院行为 → 对你本人的伤害 → 该错误在刑事record中的位置 → 你要求的CVRA范围内救济。\n\n比如你们现在最有潜力的一组：\n\n你的原始资金关系：\n\nMOS是loan；\nG Club是membership/payment；\nGTV是shares；\nH-Coin又是另一种数字资产权益。\n\n↓\n\n政府/Luc后来如何分类？\n\n是否统一进入“郭的victims / loss / proceeds”体系？\n\n↓\n\n如果分类错误，对你有什么伤害？\n\n你的资金性质、赔偿权、property interest、remission资格、§853(n)权利可能被错误处理。\n\n↓\n\nCVRA权利是什么？\n\nfairness、being heard、timely proceedings、restitution-related rights，以及政府对victims尽best efforts的义务。§3771(a)、(c)。\n\n↓\n\n刑事案件外溢后果：\n\n同一错误分类如果又被用于victim count、loss calculation、forfeiture、sentencing，那么它不仅伤害你，也可能让刑事record建立在未经解决的事实假设上。\n\n这就是桥。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb9ce49fcfd202f311fc5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q833b0b47b6ef8fa8c696","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":59,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T05:01:12.204Z","text":"大陆投资者很多都是先通过农场找黄牛或者外贸公司换汇后又处理的，收款账户是大陆的，这种情况怎么处理","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe9cdce10b7d006c7b267","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q833b0b47b6ef8fa8c696","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe9cdce10b7d006c7b267","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q6cc4c92aa5b0de3d1e12","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":60,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T05:03:22.479Z","text":"直接打这笔钱破产庭不得扣押","edited":false,"reply_to":"q833b0b47b6ef8fa8c696","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6cc4c92aa5b0de3d1e12","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q833b0b47b6ef8fa8c696","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q855bb22099cd8e911b26","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":61,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T05:03:36.327Z","text":"因为这不仅是美国国内法冲突 破产和刑事冲突","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q855bb22099cd8e911b26","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q1089a64fb218d52b995c","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":62,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T05:03:43.915Z","text":"还有国际法主权 身份冲突","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1089a64fb218d52b995c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qd059ca880159c4a69d5f","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":63,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T05:04:31.413Z","text":"刑事案tony已经证明了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd059ca880159c4a69d5f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q9e9d36058bad2a30f48c","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":64,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T05:04:40.398Z","text":"这笔钱混杂","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9e9d36058bad2a30f48c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qcbca16476beaa1df0ef1","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":65,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T05:04:50.423Z","text":"［用户 ntp***］ 刑事案的情况完全可以复刻到破产案","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcbca16476beaa1df0ef1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qb8109a14efe396d71bd9","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":66,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T05:19:02.114Z","text":"第二个引用瑞恩733 司法欺诈 把luc轰下台","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb8109a14efe396d71bd9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q009509e3bba762194c2c","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":67,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T05:19:06.490Z","text":"文喜说的郭打两个小时电话宣传tdccp是真的吗？当时你说是真的时候，我也很意外啊","edited":false,"reply_to":"q547ef1c2747077a93a7e","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q009509e3bba762194c2c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q17c4afdec9eb1924e6f7","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":68,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T05:19:37.478Z","text":"luc在解释733司法欺诈前 不得担任trustee","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q17c4afdec9eb1924e6f7","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q193f1681ab768bcfa7dc","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":69,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T05:21:56.926Z","text":"你觉得文喜说的郭打两个小时电话宣传tdccp是真的吗？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q57faffc8fc2a47d21243","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q193f1681ab768bcfa7dc","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q0ae3dadeac5b20162d56","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":70,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T05:23:09.545Z","text":"你说的文喜说的两小时电话的事我还真不记得有这事，我又不认识这个文喜","edited":false,"reply_to":"q193f1681ab768bcfa7dc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ae3dadeac5b20162d56","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q193f1681ab768bcfa7dc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q5313140210d7abf43a7b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":71,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T05:23:42.857Z","text":"文喜我知道","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0ae3dadeac5b20162d56","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5313140210d7abf43a7b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ae3dadeac5b20162d56","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qe01e81a8c674a215b5ae","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":72,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T05:23:44.219Z","text":"那你为什么私信告诉我，文喜说的是真的啊？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0ae3dadeac5b20162d56","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe01e81a8c674a215b5ae","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ae3dadeac5b20162d56","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q3ee19cdb1202f8007702","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":73,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T05:25:10.396Z","text":"不记得了，我确实有一段时间认为郭来电话是真的，那个真是郭搞的，当时威廉王天天直播说郭要回来了，我还买了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ee19cdb1202f8007702","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qff020cc07e48ada8b079","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":74,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T05:25:17.511Z","text":"不当真也不会买啊","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qff020cc07e48ada8b079","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qea90b2fe625110d338a2","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":75,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T05:25:47.974Z","text":"文喜不是你的上级吗","edited":false,"reply_to":"qe01e81a8c674a215b5ae","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qea90b2fe625110d338a2","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe01e81a8c674a215b5ae","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qf828807abfa8cb9df8d5","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":76,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T05:25:51.636Z","text":"这个不是因为上当受骗了，才觉醒？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf828807abfa8cb9df8d5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qfba30ee5e129dd353f80","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":77,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T05:26:15.847Z","text":"你觉醒之后，还觉得文喜说的是真的啊？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf828807abfa8cb9df8d5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfba30ee5e129dd353f80","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf828807abfa8cb9df8d5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qaed4117dc0326167b57e","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":78,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T05:26:23.939Z","text":"我是听其他人告诉我，文喜说这个是真的，而且那个人还播放了录音给我听","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaed4117dc0326167b57e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q11b51539006c03516c69","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":79,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T05:26:26.017Z","text":"那你是没觉醒吧","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q11b51539006c03516c69","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qb1c67726b75b64760d0b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":80,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T05:27:31.477Z","text":"他们砸盘血洗大家的财产我才发现联盟是诈骗组织","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb1c67726b75b64760d0b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qa047ceae23f10c292a0b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":81,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T05:27:56.276Z","text":"然后你还私信我，说文喜说的是真的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb1c67726b75b64760d0b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa047ceae23f10c292a0b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb1c67726b75b64760d0b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q3511f4434e945b865395","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":82,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T05:28:07.377Z","text":"你私信我干什么？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3511f4434e945b865395","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qa8065a20696f3fd78b7b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":83,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T05:28:25.344Z","text":"我又不买tdccp","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa8065a20696f3fd78b7b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qff665f2f9b5601025cd6","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":84,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T05:28:26.895Z","text":"那是因为我把你当成好人了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qff665f2f9b5601025cd6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q8e5b26940f3a398d510c","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":85,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T05:28:56.609Z","text":"把我当好人？还给我说tdccp是真的？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qff665f2f9b5601025cd6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8e5b26940f3a398d510c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qff665f2f9b5601025cd6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q2fdb1fde2a3133bbb461","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":86,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T05:29:25.068Z","text":"也是螺丝哥去自首后才意外发现你不是那么回事，你看去年我还转了很多你的推特","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2fdb1fde2a3133bbb461","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q8d0d6be64fed322f67af","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":87,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T05:30:54.368Z","text":"等一下，你自己到现在还没搞清楚tdccp是真是假，就开始判断我是不是特务了？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2fdb1fde2a3133bbb461","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8d0d6be64fed322f67af","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2fdb1fde2a3133bbb461","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q82c72b7de07d19578cb3","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":88,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T05:31:04.830Z","text":"她很受伤，不过，人在做天在看，谁想去害郭的，下地狱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q82c72b7de07d19578cb3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q660ce9809da8ff7eb5ba","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":89,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T05:32:14.339Z","text":"螺丝哥自首后，你就发现我是特务了？我靠，螺丝哥都没发现我是特务，你就发现了？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2fdb1fde2a3133bbb461","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q660ce9809da8ff7eb5ba","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2fdb1fde2a3133bbb461","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q075b3bf595f44589aae3","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":90,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T05:32:39.670Z","text":"还给我说tdccp是真的？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q075b3bf595f44589aae3","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qe6013a9d642e96861211","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":91,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T05:32:54.099Z","text":"谁是特务，还不一定呢","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe6013a9d642e96861211","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qef75c0fdfdc3e3d6de69","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":92,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T05:33:57.156Z","text":"［用户 roy***］ 让ai仔细说说大陆投资者该怎么做","edited":true,"reply_to":"q833b0b47b6ef8fa8c696","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qef75c0fdfdc3e3d6de69","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q833b0b47b6ef8fa8c696","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qd787c6243e2547b7fe0d","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":93,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T05:37:27.759Z","text":"破产案luc不愿意替300骨干，争取那14亿\n他们这单的奖金没了，也没维稳动力了🤣","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7825849a1b403f3a24b2","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd787c6243e2547b7fe0d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q97d6b2778d0348653c65","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":94,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T05:39:03.951Z","text":"你还是问一下roy同学，tdccp是真是假吧","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5c9506a4280325accd41","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q97d6b2778d0348653c65","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q108628fc9186500d426d","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":95,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T05:39:07.833Z","text":"安小东，屁酱已经反水了\n开始维护习，抛弃上海帮金融帮","edited":false,"reply_to":"q5c9506a4280325accd41","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q108628fc9186500d426d","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q01c63964fcf255c1d3b0","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":96,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T05:39:42.173Z","text":"Roy同学都说tdccp是真的了, 你不怀疑他，反而怀疑我？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q01c63964fcf255c1d3b0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qedade6772aaa55bcda00","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":97,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T05:41:32.260Z","text":"她属于Anthon这条线\nQmay直播也说过，她知道哪条线，有动作了\n说不定这几帮人，会开始先火并，死也要拉人垫背","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3b75fc5eb98824a053c3","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qedade6772aaa55bcda00","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qaab7f57aeb9d3447f6a4","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":98,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T05:44:44.343Z","text":"退一万步说，就算钱到手了，它们也会分赃不均内讧翻脸的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qedade6772aaa55bcda00","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaab7f57aeb9d3447f6a4","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qedade6772aaa55bcda00","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qfcb40b5ac0a1e8a4dc39","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":99,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T05:45:53.501Z","text":"［用户 joh***］ 如果真的要没收 这帮人估计会互相杀人","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfcb40b5ac0a1e8a4dc39","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q89ffb2bf560be3b9997f","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":100,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T05:47:27.222Z","text":"［用户 roy***］ 看到没，一讲到反水，［用户 him***］ 安小东就心虚","edited":true,"reply_to":"qfcb40b5ac0a1e8a4dc39","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q89ffb2bf560be3b9997f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfcb40b5ac0a1e8a4dc39","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qe7dca39bba91126ad16b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":101,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T05:49:27.712Z","text":"他有最强ai，不会那么容易被忽悠了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1f5c104ce88a0665e4d3","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe7dca39bba91126ad16b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q500f57fe47b69e129047","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":102,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T05:52:18.443Z","text":"没事，只要投资过，抢钱的就是敌人","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q500f57fe47b69e129047","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qb9f0293bce7981e755f1","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":103,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-08-22T05:55:49.856Z","text":"小飞象的真实名字是什么？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb9f0293bce7981e755f1","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q9c6d5756da01aa8905f8","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":104,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-08-22T05:56:27.044Z","text":"A 什么Wang","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9c6d5756da01aa8905f8","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qf2de7979ec89f09a7cd8","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":105,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T05:57:47.716Z","text":"王什么懿？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb9f0293bce7981e755f1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf2de7979ec89f09a7cd8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb9f0293bce7981e755f1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qe6f53eca542e122b2c4b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":106,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T06:01:14.775Z","text":"王寅颖？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf2de7979ec89f09a7cd8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe6f53eca542e122b2c4b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf2de7979ec89f09a7cd8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q6cdb58ed0e3ecc6f67b5","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":107,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T06:01:59.012Z","text":"A说她还在发盖特？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6cdb58ed0e3ecc6f67b5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qeb6691fb86663004bd0c","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":108,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T06:04:09.984Z","text":"老黄在讲怎么退钱了\n\nhttps://x.com/i/broadcasts/1rGmqpOjmdkGy","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeb6691fb86663004bd0c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q96e7d2b942d497998f1a","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":109,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T06:07:54.982Z","text":"老黄说退钱很简单的事儿","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q96e7d2b942d497998f1a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qbf50bb5b39e84ceb9896","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":110,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T06:09:44.920Z","text":"都盯着没收呢 ［用户 him***］","edited":true,"reply_to":"qeb6691fb86663004bd0c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbf50bb5b39e84ceb9896","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeb6691fb86663004bd0c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q0b8b0311a9b58a40d490","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":111,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T06:10:01.044Z","text":"看来他也能分点","edited":false,"reply_to":"qbf50bb5b39e84ceb9896","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0b8b0311a9b58a40d490","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbf50bb5b39e84ceb9896","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q65cafc4efe87ee8d936f","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":112,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T06:13:02.644Z","text":"指不定，他也登记了破产案债权人","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0b8b0311a9b58a40d490","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q65cafc4efe87ee8d936f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0b8b0311a9b58a40d490","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qddc43fc7804a79a7b926","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":113,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-08-22T06:30:12.790Z","text":"小飞象：王寅颖 Aila","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qddc43fc7804a79a7b926","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q750034cb8f5f74efec77","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":114,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T07:39:40.301Z","text":"黄河边说：你反正什么时候当那个阿哲，当螺丝小哥都退到钱的时候，他们就是属于普通的那些战友。他们应该没有说自己不是受害人，对吧？他们虽然对郭文贵还有这样那样的一些好感，但是呢，他们在一定程度上对郭文贵也有一定的揭露，因此他们算是一个正常的一个投资人啊。虽然有些人说他们不太正常，但我觉得还是正常的。在退钱这上面，他们拿到钱了，如果你还没拿到，估计你就难了，","edited":false,"reply_to":"qeb6691fb86663004bd0c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q750034cb8f5f74efec77","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeb6691fb86663004bd0c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qc7214155b25ba365c214","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":115,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-22T07:40:13.497Z","text":"总金额 8亿 \n刑事6.7\n民事1.7\n\n1 律师 7000w美金\n2 pax公司（郭早年在香港贷款数亿，未归还）\n3 法院 每天50w 约1亿\n4 债权人 （先有官司 韦石、西诺这种，然后是普通投资者 螺丝哥 阿哲）","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc7214155b25ba365c214","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q846ea7a1b2212a909bee","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":116,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T07:40:27.553Z","text":"没有人可以拿到钱","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc7214155b25ba365c214","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q846ea7a1b2212a909bee","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc7214155b25ba365c214","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q099c433b55b1a2a7929f","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":117,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T07:40:42.056Z","text":"案件不推翻 没有任何人可以拿钱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q099c433b55b1a2a7929f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q4d53aec92ca92b0fde09","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":118,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-22T07:40:50.832Z","text":"律师已经拿了6000w了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4d53aec92ca92b0fde09","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q7582a01b3754d4444c3b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":119,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T07:41:19.266Z","text":"那是luc自己抢走的","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7582a01b3754d4444c3b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q266af9f98c83b60af53f","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":120,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T07:41:27.625Z","text":"破产案","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q266af9f98c83b60af53f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qdb8bce5a479cce644dea","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":121,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T07:41:56.689Z","text":"池子分为两半 破产案 刑事案","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdb8bce5a479cce644dea","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qb0b4a9d50ef2c8490971","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":122,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T07:42:11.390Z","text":"破产案马上也没人可以拿钱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb0b4a9d50ef2c8490971","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qf1a7a5bec15ca33f6f58","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":123,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T07:42:15.841Z","text":"卢克，普恒律师事务所，他们先拿，而且他们已经拿了，拿了六千多万，还有几百万，弄到了就是七千万钱，这等于就是1.7亿，他就拿掉了百分之四十多","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf1a7a5bec15ca33f6f58","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q53ad81e585a86e9b4f49","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":124,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-22T07:42:45.835Z","text":"那个是破产案","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q53ad81e585a86e9b4f49","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qc6505c940eb966302c94","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":125,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T07:42:47.747Z","text":"卢克先拿钱为强","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf1a7a5bec15ca33f6f58","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc6505c940eb966302c94","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf1a7a5bec15ca33f6f58","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q760b277a03a72c4ac08f","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":126,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T07:59:23.572Z","text":"https://x.com/qiqi7877/status/2091072385009238147?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":"qeb6691fb86663004bd0c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q760b277a03a72c4ac08f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeb6691fb86663004bd0c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qe14788c259231cca4615","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":127,"speaker":"_ki***","date":"2026-08-22T08:01:38.554Z","text":"这人的推你能看进去吗 重度阴谋论","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe14788c259231cca4615","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q7cc6c66f97c3ca6ffbd2","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":128,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T08:10:40.886Z","text":"回答一下这个问题 [删节：隐私信息]","edited":true,"reply_to":"q833b0b47b6ef8fa8c696","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7cc6c66f97c3ca6ffbd2","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q833b0b47b6ef8fa8c696","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q011e9489915ddbe79578","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":129,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T08:16:04.254Z","text":"可以。大陆投资者这批人和普通美国银行直接汇款的人，最麻烦的地方正是“人民币给黄牛/中间人 → 中间人按指令把美元汇到农场或联盟指定账户”。这不等于“钱就没了”，更不等于“所有钱都被联盟私吞了”。法律上关键是把资金链和受益人链补出来。\n\n你刚上传的这个 Tony Exhibit A 其实很有价值。前两页是一张很大的汇总表，里面能看到大量Discord账号、人民币金额、折成美元后的金额、合同金额、借款编号等；其中还有明显标注的批次、小计和总计。第一页底部到第二页，表里出现很多类似US12xx的编号，第二页还能看到 具体账号以及不同批次。第三页又把不同团组的汇出数量、汇出金额做了汇总，最后有一个 193,824.79 的总数。第四页则显示某个农场后来被联盟工作小组接管。也就是说，这份材料至少支持一个重要事实：这种“多人集资/换汇/统一汇出”的结构并不是个别现象，而像是一个批量组织化操作。\n\n对这群大陆投资者，我建议统一按四层证据来做，而不是每个人都死磕“我没有那张原始国际汇款单”。\n\n第一层是人民币出资证明。哪怕钱先给了黄牛，也要找中国银行流水、支付宝/微信、现金收据、聊天记录、转账备注、黄牛姓名或昵称、金额和日期。这个证明“钱从投资人离开”。\n\n第二层是换汇/代汇对应关系。重点找群聊、表格、Excel、Discord消息、Google Form、借款编号、批次号、收款人指令。你这个Exhibit A就属于这一层。它如果能把“某Discord账号—人民币金额—折美元金额—合同金额—US编号”对应起来，价值很大，因为它能补上“我虽然没有SWIFT，但我被列入了某一批统一汇款”的环节。\n\n第三层是境外收款端证明。包括农场发出的loan agreement、G Club会员记录、GTV股份证书、H-Coin账户、确认邮件、利息通知、借款编号。这个证明“境外体系承认这笔投资存在”。如果黄牛汇款单丢了，但境外实体给你发了US1-XXXX、US12xx、股份证书或会员卡，这本身就是很强的旁证。\n\n第四层是官方/司法确认。比如中国侦查卷宗、讯问笔录、法院材料里记载的投资金额；美国刑事案、SEC Fair Fund、破产案里又能找到同一实体或同一资金池。这个层级最强，因为它不是投资人自己事后说，而是第三方官方记录。\n\n所以，“没有原始国际汇款凭证就彻底没救”是错的。 对这种大陆投资模式，法院或DOJ真正要看的应该是整套证据是否能形成可信的资金链，而不是非得一张SWIFT单独证明全部事情。\n\n至于“钱是不是都被联盟诈骗犯私吞了”，现在不能这么下结论。可能至少有四种去向同时存在：\n\n一部分真实进入了农场/G Club/GTV等指定实体账户；\n一部分后来被这些实体继续转出；\n一部分后来被美国政府扣押/没收；\n一部分后来进入Luc控制或破产estate；\n也可能确实存在中间人或组织者截留，但这必须逐笔证据证明。\n\n所以大陆投资者真正该做的，不是先喊“全被私吞”，而是做一张统一的Claim Reconstruction Sheet，每个人一行：\n\n姓名/Discord账号 → 人民币付款日期金额 → 黄牛/中间人 → 对应美元金额 → 指定收款项目 → 合同/Loan编号 → 境外确认文件 → 现在资产在哪个池（SEC / DOJ forfeiture / bankruptcy / unknown）\n\n这张表一旦做出来，就能把几百个“没有SWIFT的小散户”变成一个结构化证据群。\n\n而你这个 Tony Exhibit A 很可能正适合做群体性模式证据：它不是直接证明每一个人最终的钱去了哪里，但它能证明当时存在批量换汇、批量汇出、按账号/合同/借款编号登记的组织化机制。\n\n如果你愿意，我下一步可以直接帮你把这4页表格整理成一个“大陆投资者资金链证据模板”，告诉大家每个人最低要补哪5样东西，才有希望去走DOJ 、SEC、破产案或者第三方产权程序。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q011e9489915ddbe79578","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q6d16078b85f3de69db0e","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":130,"speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-08-22T08:19:07.795Z","text":"https://x.com/sarahzh67248600/status/1957048258523496487?s=12&t=eXMPp66CZUFD_7vvMedcSA\n\n4月份的填表 青们联盟 埋了大雷在这里！！！\n图一：新联盟跟老联盟一样又在煽动填表！\n图二\n👆这个表 提供的填写“成功模板” 是853号(n)第三方介入（第三方！非受害者victim)\n图三\n👆提供的真正填写模板 section III 明白写着 victim petition （受害者！！！）\n图四\n👆填了 勾选了意思就是承认 自己是这一系列案件的 受害者 而不是只希望要回没收资产的第三方！（2023年的1000多G系列登记债权人 被转成刑事案受害人 青们嫌这还嫌不够 还要增加受害人数）\n不知多少战友 又稀里糊涂填表上当了（根据Geyer的统计 怕又多了6575-3345个填表的受害者）","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6d16078b85f3de69db0e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q80b35a5d512674716d09","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":131,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T08:20:58.300Z","text":"第四层官方司法确认，这个大陆投资者怎么做到？就是为了规避官方的金融管制才采用的中转汇款的办法。而且投资人根本不知道钱在哪里，检方没说，联盟收款也不提","edited":false,"reply_to":"q011e9489915ddbe79578","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q80b35a5d512674716d09","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q011e9489915ddbe79578","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q79c3843e4843e55f5b5c","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":132,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T08:25:30.806Z","text":"对，你这个问题抓到了大陆投资者最难的一点。我前面说“第四层官方司法确认”如果理解成“每个大陆投资人都必须先拿到中国法院或美国法院一张纸，证明某一笔人民币最终到了美国哪个账户”，那要求过高，很多人根本做不到。\n\n大陆这批人的真实结构往往是：\n\n投资人付人民币给中间人/换汇人\n→ 换汇人或另一个代汇账户汇美元\n→ 按农场/联盟给出的指令进入美国或境外账户\n→ 投资人本人没有SWIFT、不是国际汇款人\n→ 后来联盟又不告诉投资人最终收款账户\n→ 检方掌握银行追踪结果，却未必逐个告诉受害人。\n\n所以这类人真正应该走的是**“反向追踪（reverse tracing）”**，而不是要求投资者自己完成政府才能完成的那一段。\n\n第一件事：大陆投资人先证明“我确实交了这笔钱，而且是为了这个项目”\n\n这个部分投资人自己完成。\n\n比如：\n\n人民币付款记录 + Discord/微信聊天 + 农场分配通知 + Loan编号 + G Club账号 + GTV股票证书 + H-Coin账户 + 利息通知 + 后来联盟要求填写的重建表格。\n\n这些材料组合起来证明的不是：\n\n“这10万元人民币最后进入了Bank of America尾号XXXX账户。”\n\n而是：\n\n“我确实支付了相当于USD X的资金，并且收款体系随后承认这是我的GTV/Farm/G Club投资。”\n\n这已经是第一条完整证据链。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q79c3843e4843e55f5b5c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q03271814a05afce47051","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":133,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T08:26:33.857Z","text":"第二件事非常重要：让“掌握第二段资金链的人”说明钱去了哪里\n\n大陆投资人不知道境外账户，不代表这段资金流不存在。\n\n相反，真正掌握它的人可能是：\n\nDOJ/FBI/检方、被冻结账户的银行、Trustee、Farm实体、G Club、收款中间公司以及控制这些账户的人。\n\n所以法律上的问题应该反过来：\n\n既然投资人能够证明第一跳付款和投资权益，而政府/Trustee已经取得境外账户记录，那么为什么还要求投资人证明只有政府掌握的第二跳？\n\n这会成为很重要的程序论点。\n\n比如一个投资人能够证明：\n\nRMB 700,000\n→ 某换汇人\n→ 按香草山通知支付\n→ 随后收到US1-xxxxx Loan Agreement\n→ Farm后台记录USD100,000\n→ Farm后来还通知一年利息USD3,000\n\n这已经非常有意义。\n\n这时候应该要求：\n\nGovernment/Trustee把US1-xxxxx对应的实际入账账户、入账日期、汇款人、后续资金流提供出来。\n\n而不是让中国投资人凭空猜。\n\n所以“官方确认”应该改成两种\n\n不是要求每个人都有中国法院判决。\n\nA类：已经存在的官方确认\n\n有些人恰好有：\n\n中国公安笔录；\n中国检察院材料；\n中国法院判决/庭审记录；\n美国SEC Fair Fund确认；\nDOJ victim/remission claim ID；\n美国法院第三方petition；\nBankruptcy proof of claim/objection/order。\n\n这些是额外强化证据。\n\nB类：通过美国程序要求产生官方确认\n\n这对大多数大陆投资人才最重要。\n\n也就是：\n\n投资人先提交现有完整证据\n↓\n明确指出自己无法取得第二跳银行资料的原因\n↓\n指出Government/Trustee拥有或控制相关资料\n↓\n要求对方完成matching/tracing\n↓\n最终由法院、DOJ或者Trustee确认这笔投资对应哪个资金池。\n\n这才现实。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q03271814a05afce47051","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qb516090f1e797171fb75","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":134,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T08:28:20.136Z","text":"一个非常重要的例子就是你自己的材料\n\n你自己没有必要证明：\n\n“我亲手从中国银行国际汇了USDXXXXX到MOS。”\n\n如果真实情况并不是这样，就绝对不要这么写。\n\n你应该证明的是：\n\n我支付人民币/通过中间支付机制完成投资；\n\nMountains of Spices随后把我登记为Loan US1-XXXXXX；\n\n本金明确登记为约USDXXXXXX；\n\n后来还向我发送一年利息USDXXXX的通知；\n\n因此MOS自身的商业记录已经承认这笔loan liability。\n\n然后下一问应该甩给Government/Luc：\n\n“Identify the bank account into which the funds corresponding to Loan No. US1-01188 were received and trace the disposition of those funds.”\n\n这比你自己猜“钱去了哪个账户”强很多。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb516090f1e797171fb75","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q18dec2f4fda5966e91d5","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":135,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T08:29:05.742Z","text":"而你刚上传的Tony Exhibit A让我更重视一个方向\n\n如果这些大型表格真的是当时农场/联盟重建项目形成的记录，那么它可能特别适合证明：\n\n这种第三方换汇并不是某一个投资人的异常做法，而是大量大陆投资人的共同付款模式。\n\n这非常重要。\n\n因为如果几百个人都有：\n\n人民币付款\n→ 第三方代汇\n→ Farm后台却准确出现相应美元贷款金额和Loan编号，\n\n那就越来越难把问题说成：\n\n“你不是美元汇款人，所以无法证明你投资。”\n\n反而会变成：\n\n收款体系自己建立了一套把代汇资金匹配到最终投资人的内部账簿。\n\n而一旦存在这种内部matching ledger，真正应该被要求提供的就是：\n\n完整Farm ledger / rebuilding database / bank reconciliation / investor-to-wire mapping table。\n\n这可能比几百个人分别寻找五六年前的黄牛汇款截图重要得多。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q18dec2f4fda5966e91d5","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q8567b11d57e8c7aab042","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":136,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T08:29:46.887Z","text":"所以大陆投资者真正缺的不是“每个人找出境外银行账户”\n\n真正应该做的是建立三张表：\n\n投资人表：\n谁、投多少钱、什么项目、哪个账号/Loan号。\n\n中转表：\n人民币给谁、日期、金额、哪一批、哪个换汇人或代汇组织。\n\n境外匹配表：\n哪一批对应哪个美元wire、哪个收款账户、哪个Farm/G Club实体。\n\n前两张大陆投资人自己可能可以重建。\n\n第三张很可能只有Government、Luc和当时收款组织掌握。\n\n所以大陆投资者未来真正应该要求的，不只是：\n\n“请退我的钱。”\n\n而应该加一个非常具体的要求：\n\n“Produce or use the investor-to-wire reconciliation records necessary to identify the disposition of intermediary-funded mainland investor payments.”\n\n也就是：\n\n把“大陆投资人—黄牛/中转—美元wire—最终收款账户”的匹配账拿出来。\n\n如果政府已经在刑事案做了几十TB discovery、银行账户追踪，而Trustee又声称追踪了成百上千笔转账，那么让每个大陆投资人重新证明政府手里已经存在的后半段资金链，确实是一个非常值得挑战的问题。\n\n因此，这批大陆投资者不是天然“没凭证就完了”。恰恰相反，他们更适合做群体性的payment-methodology证据：先证明这种中转模式是系统性的，再要求掌握银行记录的一方完成最终matching。\n\n这会比每个人单独去找五年前的黄牛有用得多。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8567b11d57e8c7aab042","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q0aabe7f0ea5a80e24f30","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":137,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T08:29:55.168Z","text":"不知道对大家有没有帮助","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0aabe7f0ea5a80e24f30","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qfd9fe5feb12b6942de6b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":138,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T09:02:31.791Z","text":"几个表可以给我吗","edited":false,"reply_to":"q7cc6c66f97c3ca6ffbd2","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfd9fe5feb12b6942de6b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7cc6c66f97c3ca6ffbd2","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q0251a5c4fdf270ea0a41","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":139,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T09:04:35.431Z","text":"5744第2页写得非常明确：9019 Motion的听证是2026年8月25日下午1:00，异议截止是8月19日下午4:00；但它同时把送达范围限制在U.S. Trustee、Debtor、无担保债权人委员会、美国政府、已请求Rule 2002通知的人、CM/ECF收件人，以及少数无法电子收件但已请求通知的人。换句话说，如果你此前并不在这些notice parties里，你就有一个现实的“未获针对性通知”问题","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0251a5c4fdf270ea0a41","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q90368f1b787a457c0de8","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":140,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T09:25:40.888Z","text":"什么表？","edited":false,"reply_to":"qfd9fe5feb12b6942de6b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q90368f1b787a457c0de8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfd9fe5feb12b6942de6b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q7d4848886ae7d6a38598","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":141,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T09:26:16.051Z","text":"这个早就上二巡了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q6d16078b85f3de69db0e","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7d4848886ae7d6a38598","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6d16078b85f3de69db0e","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qf09b3e84ecff11cf6faa","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":142,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T09:49:03.701Z","text":"灭爆大肆宣传老郭换监狱是有人谋杀，目的何在？\nhttps://x.com/ruienxiaoge3/status/2091008299152113974?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf09b3e84ecff11cf6faa","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qa4dcc461673a766fbb55","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":143,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T09:52:56.443Z","text":"让韭菜不再关注他们编故事","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa4dcc461673a766fbb55","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qc72edb06c7afd7e25c5c","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":144,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T09:52:59.107Z","text":"注意什么？上诉？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc72edb06c7afd7e25c5c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qd65ed315ca7c98864c64","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":145,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T09:58:49.271Z","text":"这样也好，把网格员都筛选出来了","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb918a7d364386701b6fc","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd65ed315ca7c98864c64","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q2fc0473883d8db266a13","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":146,"speaker":"cin***","date":"2026-08-22T10:07:04.823Z","text":"一切形成组织架构的洗脑盘的底层逻辑 都是打造一个具自我特色的神秘化叙事 让信徒在不断困惑和解惑中 淬炼升级 深深扎在这个盘里出不来 至于外界人分析这些话术具体起有什么用 意义不大 稳住这个盘子而已 信徒会形成各自专属的脑回路 总之最终就是 我们要跟紧这个组织或者这个个体 外界全是骗局 只有ta有真相/真理","edited":false,"reply_to":"qf09b3e84ecff11cf6faa","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2fc0473883d8db266a13","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf09b3e84ecff11cf6faa","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q3f3642bf839ccac31a8f","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":147,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T10:41:42.713Z","text":"因为政府自己的FBI宣誓书已经承认：\n\ninvestor → intermediary → recipient system\n\n这种结构确实存在。\n\n甚至716-4还明确说，投资资金来自“individual or institutional investors in China and elsewhere”，并详细描述Crane、BSI、Reserve Trust、Prime Trust、MBI等中间体系，以及资金后来怎样进入G Club账户，再进入Hamilton体系。 716-4.pdf\n\n所以以后对方如果说：\n\n“不是你本人名字直接出现在最终美国账户，所以你证明不了。”\n\n我们的回答可以直接用政府自己的证据反击：\n\nThe Government itself has documented that investors frequently did not remit directly into the ultimate account, but instead transmitted funds through intermediaries and layered accounts.\n\n这非常强。\n\n⸻\n\n更重要的是，716-4里还有一句几乎像为我们这次Motion准备的：\n\nFBI说，他们和SEC分析人员已经identified and attempted to trace more than approximately $1.04 billion in Investment Scheme Fund transactions。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3f3642bf839ccac31a8f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qd493e1b8773ccb862993","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":148,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T10:43:07.458Z","text":"870又给我们第三个突破口\n\nDkt. 870现在非常重要。\n\n它明确写：\n\n* G Club International账户曾有约 $11.538 million 被政府扣押；\n* 另有约 $2.112 million 在Banco Popular的 G Club Operations LLC账户，被政府申请补充没收；\n* Pillsbury针对G Club相关资金提出第三方权益；\n* Government最终根据 §853(n)(6)(B) 正式认可Pillsbury作为 bona fide purchaser for value 的部分权益。 870.pdf\n\n这说明一个非常重要的程序事实：\n\n政府并不是认为“进了G Club资金池以后所有第三方权益一律消失”。\n\n恰恰相反。\n\n第三方提出财产权 → 提交Declaration和证据 → Government审查 → 能够承认第三方§853(n)权益。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd493e1b8773ccb862993","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q79ca7023a046b9a49e9b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":149,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-08-22T11:10:22.566Z","text":"郭案DOJ官方页面现在只明确说：郭被判没收8.89亿美元，法院认为直接restitution不切实际，政府准备在forfeiture完成后通过remission偿还符合条件的victims；以前已经提交过remission/mitigation petition的人不需要因为郭后来的forfeiture order再交一遍。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q79ca7023a046b9a49e9b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qdd52761fe7db67265aad","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":150,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-08-22T11:12:59.513Z","text":"Taga - 上面的检方的说法， 省去了一个很重要的选项： 这些钱， 不是太复杂不知道如何返还， 是检方一厢情愿的扣押，不让农场主/现任及前任交出账务！","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdd52761fe7db67265aad","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q5971932e594153fb051b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":151,"speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-08-22T11:14:37.234Z","text":"每笔钱，都有来源，背后都有主人； 在AI 面前， 理这些账务不是问题","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5971932e594153fb051b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q314bc9791b49b2059e2b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":152,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T11:21:20.536Z","text":"郭案没收，是参考王案\n郭破产状态，对冻结财产处理，没有发言权","edited":false,"reply_to":"q79ca7023a046b9a49e9b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q314bc9791b49b2059e2b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q79ca7023a046b9a49e9b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q263d7d6fbcbdc8b9aa4b","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":153,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T11:22:41.779Z","text":"王同意政府对冻结资产，进行没收","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q263d7d6fbcbdc8b9aa4b","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q86d08b6be6158b857ec1","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":154,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T11:30:51.565Z","text":"Government审查，承认853n权益，前提还是没收forfeiture","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd493e1b8773ccb862993","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q86d08b6be6158b857ec1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd493e1b8773ccb862993","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q609f3d98505bf0a4761a","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":155,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T11:32:22.340Z","text":"原本投资者的钱，从哪来去了哪，很明了，可以参考GTV fair fund进行赔偿restitution，不需要government插一脚","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q609f3d98505bf0a4761a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q5c91c2c4d78dbecf6514","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":156,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T11:44:23.653Z","text":"推上老黄，猪万利，都在讨论没收的事，这和检方 luc论调一样，只谈去问检方政府要钱，不谈钱的所有权","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5c91c2c4d78dbecf6514","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q8bf6a92da37bd9aa1080","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":157,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-22T12:23:49.311Z","text":"螺丝哥根本没说他要钱","edited":false,"reply_to":"q750034cb8f5f74efec77","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8bf6a92da37bd9aa1080","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q750034cb8f5f74efec77","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q4dae3958b130bc4f4f12","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":158,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T14:48:53.605Z","text":"https://x.com/testurheart/status/2091175551675330647?s=46","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4dae3958b130bc4f4f12","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q192308d7d2800d91e292","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":159,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T14:49:42.052Z","text":"那是他仅剩的政治遗产","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2debb7a017235f029c1d","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q192308d7d2800d91e292","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qbf8ad6b8dc2d5a427e2a","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":160,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-08-22T17:44:39.209Z","text":"restitution不切实际是借口，GTV同样的资金，同样的人群，返还也做到了","edited":false,"reply_to":"q79ca7023a046b9a49e9b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbf8ad6b8dc2d5a427e2a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q79ca7023a046b9a49e9b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q7e5bf541591a63c8c2bf","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":161,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-08-22T18:03:28.925Z","text":"从 fee application 自己的记载来看，有几类费用已经明显值得重点挑战。\n一、最值得挑战的第一类：破产 estate 为刑事案件和刑事没收活动支付费用这是目前最明显的一类。\nPaul Hastings 自己在申请中明确写道，他们：\n与 DOJ 就郭文贵的刑事程序以及被扣押资产进行沟通；\n参加郭文贵刑事案件的听证；\n监控刑事程序并审查刑事案件文件；\n收到 DOJ 的 subpoena 后，把 trustee Rule 2004 调查获得的文件提供给 DOJ。而且账单进一步具体到：。。。。。。。。。。这不是一个小数目，所以这里有一个非常具体的问题：\n\n为什么 bankruptcy estate 要承担为刑事案件本身提供服务的费用？                                                                                二、第二个非常严重的点：账单明确写的是“forfeiture issues”\n这比普通的“与 DOJ 沟通”更值得关注。\n3月17日：\nAnalyze forfeiture issues and related authority\n1.2小时 × $1,320 = $1,584。\n3月18日：\nDOJ ... our next steps and forfeiture issues\n$2,232\n以及：Lady May forfeiture issues\n$1,674。\n这说明律师账单本身已经把 forfeiture 写进去了。\n这与你一直提出的核心问题直接连接：\nbankruptcy estate 的律师为什么要参与 criminal forfeiture strategy？                                                            三、第三类：刑事案件的“旁观/监控”费用尤其可疑 申请明确说：\n\nPaul Hastings attorneys monitored these criminal proceedings and reviewed pleadings filed in these proceedings.\n\n然后他们参加：\n\n2023年3月15日刑事 arraignment；\n2023年4月4日郭文贵及 Yvette Wang 的 bail hearings。\n这里有一个非常简单的问题：\n“monitoring criminal proceedings”为什么是 bankruptcy estate 的必要费用？\n如果某个刑事案件会直接影响 estate 的资产，比如政府扣押了 estate property，那么有限度地监控当然可以理解。\n但是：监控被告刑事案件本身，与：保护 estate 的具体产权，不是同一回事。\n这类 billing entry，我会列为高优先级审查项目。           四、第四类：Rule 2004 调查产生的大规模费用，要重点检查“调查范围是否过度”                                                 注意这里出现了一个非常重要的词：\nhundreds\n也就是说，这已经不是针对几个核心资产的普通 bankruptcy investigation。\n它已经成为一个大规模调查工程。\n调查本身当然可能合法。\n但法院在审查费用时应该问：\n每一个调查对象与 estate 的实际利益是什么？                五、第五类：大量律师同时调查同一个问题，存在明显的“重复劳动”风险\n\n这个账单特别能说明问题。\n\n例如 2023年3月14日：\n\nECS1：调查 affiliated entities/individuals/assets，$1,015/hr；\nJPK1：审查飞机交易文件，$915/hr；\nLM20：审查 Hodgson Russ 文件，$855/hr；\nLAD4：与 DOJ 沟通 seizure，$1,860/hr；\nNAB：再次与 DOJ 沟通 seizure，$1,625/hr。","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7e5bf541591a63c8c2bf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qb9c330077636b6b2654a","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":162,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:12:35.790Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]  luc花投资人的钱 也和郭文贵律师没半毛钱关系 郭文贵律师负责翻案 你这个[屏蔽词]一分钱都拿不回来和郭文贵律师也没半毛钱关系","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb9c330077636b6b2654a","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q71bbde34a3cfde890a61","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":163,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:13:58.846Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]  我本来想出一个如何罢免luc的教程 现在你这么说 我得想想了","edited":true,"reply_to":"q0464ffbaed9b4b54fe0e","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q71bbde34a3cfde890a61","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q4c6d2c29ee6223fcd5cf","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":164,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T18:19:31.461Z","text":"［用户 kir***］ \n［用户 spr***］ 非常恨luc，因为破产案luc捞不到刑事案的14亿了\n根据和解协议，luc目前只能从300骨干嘴里抢肉","edited":true,"reply_to":"q0464ffbaed9b4b54fe0e","reply_status":"not_public","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4c6d2c29ee6223fcd5cf","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"被回复内容暂不可用","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q8096b477b78f02e2d887","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":165,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:20:52.817Z","text":"[删节：隐私信息]  我明白为什么联盟和 [删节：隐私信息] 这个[屏蔽词]妇让我们去破产案了！ 看 [删节：隐私信息] 这个[屏蔽词]妇说的是：债权人应该去破产案，那就是和盖尔一个道理 此地无银300两 你看，有这么多债权人，更重要的，是为了挽救债权人被瑞恩733司法欺诈打废了。 luc可以说 你看 有这么多债权人 我没司法欺诈！！","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8096b477b78f02e2d887","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qff305d79013d1a4fa7ab","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":166,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T18:26:07.354Z","text":"luc把300骨干卖了\n联盟又想敲打luc，又不想自己当面和luc翻脸","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qff305d79013d1a4fa7ab","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q17914b62c3b2fd76ec05","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":167,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:27:36.783Z","text":"[删节：成员身份] 去破产案的正确姿势： 如果你的投资确定在luc那里 那么就以interested party介入 如果你当时虚假填写债权人，那么必须指控luc 为什么要把拱卒 julia虚假债权搞进来 导致后面的人被误导 并且luc和检方欺骗了多级法院三年 被733指控为司法欺诈","edited":true,"reply_to":"q8096b477b78f02e2d887","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q17914b62c3b2fd76ec05","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8096b477b78f02e2d887","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q9aa8417fc7edc9c19425","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":168,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T18:27:58.612Z","text":"根据roy的 ai分析，Luc不抢刑事案的钱了，但他破产案里也还有部分刑事案的钱，这部分钱检方也不抢了，那是不是已经成了债权人的盘中餐","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9aa8417fc7edc9c19425","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q27a5b7f9e6b865a11041","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":169,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:28:12.989Z","text":"没那么简单","edited":false,"reply_to":"q9aa8417fc7edc9c19425","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q27a5b7f9e6b865a11041","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9aa8417fc7edc9c19425","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q4af8e95c18e823fb13be","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":170,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T18:29:17.073Z","text":"自诉人一直没有参与破产案，这事到底对郭案意味着什么？对投资又有什么影响","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4af8e95c18e823fb13be","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q3c4f6e0385058555c631","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":171,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:30:48.250Z","text":"破产案在一个时间点后被托雷斯在刑事案切掉了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3c4f6e0385058555c631","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qd0e5fc312ff7d3bf07fc","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":172,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T18:31:25.111Z","text":"破产案luc进刑事案，原本计划是全盘接收政府没收的G系列，给债权人\n自诉上去针对luc以后，他采取守势，不再理会介入刑事案","edited":false,"reply_to":"q4af8e95c18e823fb13be","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd0e5fc312ff7d3bf07fc","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4af8e95c18e823fb13be","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qae88653589427c29704f","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":173,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T18:31:47.027Z","text":"如果luc只是抢老郭家族的钱，那对我们就基本没啥影响","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qae88653589427c29704f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q0e27035cf3a6148c3a05","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":174,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:31:54.361Z","text":"打破产案对郭案有帮助 可以加大资金司法属性的分裂 证明托雷斯没有对司法冲突进行解释","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0e27035cf3a6148c3a05","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qe4223d6c5a31fff529d8","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":175,"speaker":"mia***","date":"2026-08-22T18:32:30.377Z","text":"她二巡不是用853n让南区尽快没收分钱，现在又打算合法债权人定死郭案诈骗？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q8096b477b78f02e2d887","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe4223d6c5a31fff529d8","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8096b477b78f02e2d887","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q1d5563b2f958a0278bee","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":176,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T18:32:32.863Z","text":"Luc的退让有点大吧","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd0e5fc312ff7d3bf07fc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1d5563b2f958a0278bee","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd0e5fc312ff7d3bf07fc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qb350d1dc83e93ac3c686","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":177,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T18:32:48.334Z","text":"是的，这个切割，是保护luc","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3c4f6e0385058555c631","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb350d1dc83e93ac3c686","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3c4f6e0385058555c631","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qc4cb6ee3916a76072dd1","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":178,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T18:32:58.735Z","text":"没有，留了后路的\n政府和luc，分大分小，左手倒右手","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1d5563b2f958a0278bee","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc4cb6ee3916a76072dd1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1d5563b2f958a0278bee","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q753822ae079f203d1928","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":179,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T18:33:46.439Z","text":"他那个后路更证明了刑事案和破产案最后的受益者是一波人","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc4cb6ee3916a76072dd1","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q753822ae079f203d1928","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc4cb6ee3916a76072dd1","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q2b6edc65cc9d6989dd71","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":180,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T18:34:09.490Z","text":"都会是300骨干","edited":false,"reply_to":"q753822ae079f203d1928","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2b6edc65cc9d6989dd71","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q753822ae079f203d1928","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q516b455250fcf3be7a65","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":181,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:34:21.238Z","text":"更多是保自己 因为刑事案破产案天然有司法冲突","edited":false,"reply_to":"qb350d1dc83e93ac3c686","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q516b455250fcf3be7a65","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb350d1dc83e93ac3c686","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q093699f79de22216b868","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":182,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T18:34:34.112Z","text":"300骨干算个屁，顶多给口汤喝","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2b6edc65cc9d6989dd71","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q093699f79de22216b868","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2b6edc65cc9d6989dd71","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q3ac2ebdc6b8f15f9ce57","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":183,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:35:02.896Z","text":"托雷斯切掉前 就出了733这么个事 如果不果断切 估计这案子早就完了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ac2ebdc6b8f15f9ce57","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qc171bb6a14af5827150c","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":184,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T18:36:33.560Z","text":"破产案会有什么不利于南区的地方？","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3ac2ebdc6b8f15f9ce57","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc171bb6a14af5827150c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ac2ebdc6b8f15f9ce57","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q6f570e8130049bba23b5","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":185,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:36:47.082Z","text":"资金属性没搞明白","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc171bb6a14af5827150c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6f570e8130049bba23b5","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc171bb6a14af5827150c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q0c39f4db84f8831ffecd","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":186,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:37:01.967Z","text":"和tony的东西一模一样","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0c39f4db84f8831ffecd","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q0b2d8e232c61aa888ea2","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":187,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T18:37:06.216Z","text":"刑事没收也有这个问题啊","edited":false,"reply_to":"q6f570e8130049bba23b5","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0b2d8e232c61aa888ea2","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6f570e8130049bba23b5","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q249903d4cc591f8e6741","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":188,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:37:22.069Z","text":"如果luc能证明 所有资金都符合他破产案的规定","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q249903d4cc591f8e6741","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q1cf7d814044d06112abe","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":189,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:37:30.531Z","text":"那么和检方刑事案就冲突了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1cf7d814044d06112abe","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q19b8787815a54cee2c4e","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":190,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:37:51.666Z","text":"现在 tony中国司法文件证明 所有资金 都是中共国安法的钱","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q19b8787815a54cee2c4e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q2d2c36e86746983370a9","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":191,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:38:04.378Z","text":"三重司法冲突 不研究 你就把人判了","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2d2c36e86746983370a9","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qc3b7ce6cd17fc737a73a","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":192,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T18:38:16.998Z","text":"破产资产也可以是诈骗所得吧","edited":false,"reply_to":"q1cf7d814044d06112abe","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc3b7ce6cd17fc737a73a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1cf7d814044d06112abe","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q187bd6a837958588aa71","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":193,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:38:40.236Z","text":"不是这么简单","edited":false,"reply_to":"qc3b7ce6cd17fc737a73a","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q187bd6a837958588aa71","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc3b7ce6cd17fc737a73a","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qd8160ee12fec8910fbe6","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":194,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T18:39:14.687Z","text":"所以现在是中共，检方和luc三方都可以对资金主张所有权？","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd8160ee12fec8910fbe6","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q513b01890a91937f7a26","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":195,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-22T18:39:22.022Z","text":"luc想用刑事案的量刑，支持他在破产案的追款合理性","edited":false,"reply_to":"q187bd6a837958588aa71","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q513b01890a91937f7a26","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q187bd6a837958588aa71","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"qfacbec3d57bcf7bd2a6d","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":196,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:39:36.681Z","text":"不是","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd8160ee12fec8910fbe6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfacbec3d57bcf7bd2a6d","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd8160ee12fec8910fbe6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q1497e358841aafc1e43f","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":197,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:39:47.231Z","text":"是这三方都有资金权益","edited":false,"reply_to":"qd8160ee12fec8910fbe6","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1497e358841aafc1e43f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd8160ee12fec8910fbe6","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q0ad223aeb0761ab15297","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":198,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-22T18:40:07.741Z","text":"而量刑前对这些司法冲突根本没有裁决","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ad223aeb0761ab15297","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q9751402956038f716514","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":199,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T18:41:32.530Z","text":"把破产案切掉对这个问题也没啥用啊","edited":false,"reply_to":"q0ad223aeb0761ab15297","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9751402956038f716514","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0ad223aeb0761ab15297","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"},{"id":"q538fdc12f466c31ec29e","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":200,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T18:41:46.255Z","text":"两边都有毛病","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q538fdc12f466c31ec29e","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150"}],"prev_batch_id":"batch-000149","next_batch_id":"batch-000151"}