{"id":"q03271814a05afce47051","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":133,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T08:26:33.857Z","text":"第二件事非常重要：让“掌握第二段资金链的人”说明钱去了哪里\n\n大陆投资人不知道境外账户，不代表这段资金流不存在。\n\n相反，真正掌握它的人可能是：\n\nDOJ/FBI/检方、被冻结账户的银行、Trustee、Farm实体、G Club、收款中间公司以及控制这些账户的人。\n\n所以法律上的问题应该反过来：\n\n既然投资人能够证明第一跳付款和投资权益，而政府/Trustee已经取得境外账户记录，那么为什么还要求投资人证明只有政府掌握的第二跳？\n\n这会成为很重要的程序论点。\n\n比如一个投资人能够证明：\n\nRMB 700,000\n→ 某换汇人\n→ 按香草山通知支付\n→ 随后收到US1-xxxxx Loan Agreement\n→ Farm后台记录USD100,000\n→ Farm后来还通知一年利息USD3,000\n\n这已经非常有意义。\n\n这时候应该要求：\n\nGovernment/Trustee把US1-xxxxx对应的实际入账账户、入账日期、汇款人、后续资金流提供出来。\n\n而不是让中国投资人凭空猜。\n\n所以“官方确认”应该改成两种\n\n不是要求每个人都有中国法院判决。\n\nA类：已经存在的官方确认\n\n有些人恰好有：\n\n中国公安笔录；\n中国检察院材料；\n中国法院判决/庭审记录；\n美国SEC Fair Fund确认；\nDOJ victim/remission claim ID；\n美国法院第三方petition；\nBankruptcy proof of claim/objection/order。\n\n这些是额外强化证据。\n\nB类：通过美国程序要求产生官方确认\n\n这对大多数大陆投资人才最重要。\n\n也就是：\n\n投资人先提交现有完整证据\n↓\n明确指出自己无法取得第二跳银行资料的原因\n↓\n指出Government/Trustee拥有或控制相关资料\n↓\n要求对方完成matching/tracing\n↓\n最终由法院、DOJ或者Trustee确认这笔投资对应哪个资金池。\n\n这才现实。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q03271814a05afce47051","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q03271814a05afce47051","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q03271814a05afce47051/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q03271814a05afce47051","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q6d16078b85f3de69db0e","speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-08-22T08:19:07.795Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6d16078b85f3de69db0e"},{"id":"q80b35a5d512674716d09","speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-22T08:20:58.300Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q80b35a5d512674716d09"},{"id":"q79c3843e4843e55f5b5c","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T08:25:30.806Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q79c3843e4843e55f5b5c"},{"id":"qb516090f1e797171fb75","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T08:28:20.136Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb516090f1e797171fb75"},{"id":"q18dec2f4fda5966e91d5","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T08:29:05.742Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q18dec2f4fda5966e91d5"},{"id":"q8567b11d57e8c7aab042","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-22T08:29:46.887Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8567b11d57e8c7aab042"}],"parent_message":null}