{"id":"q05847ef7a204d3c4ea47","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":244,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-23T04:20:40.103Z","text":"cvra是托雷斯永远的伤痛","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q71fa4ac2c16f0f4f6a88","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q05847ef7a204d3c4ea47","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q71fa4ac2c16f0f4f6a88","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150/pages/2","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150/pages/2","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q05847ef7a204d3c4ea47","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q05847ef7a204d3c4ea47/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q05847ef7a204d3c4ea47","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q82c6c2f90c9a050e302a","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-23T04:15:49.989Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q82c6c2f90c9a050e302a"},{"id":"q71fa4ac2c16f0f4f6a88","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-23T04:18:42.734Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q71fa4ac2c16f0f4f6a88"},{"id":"q3ebfb9ad3402085bb3b8","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-23T04:19:16.775Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ebfb9ad3402085bb3b8"},{"id":"qee7825a056b5f27ef901","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-23T04:21:12.735Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qee7825a056b5f27ef901"},{"id":"qbfee38c29074c41f1eae","speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-08-23T04:24:49.642Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbfee38c29074c41f1eae"},{"id":"q226fd53c0ae13b1fa1bf","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-23T04:25:42.153Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q226fd53c0ae13b1fa1bf"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q71fa4ac2c16f0f4f6a88","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-23T04:18:42.734Z","text":"所以你现在问：\n\nTorres只顾着量刑+没收，那些CVRA怎么办？\n\n我的回答是：\n\nCVRA没有因为量刑结束或者开启§853(n)就自动消失。\n\n如果以前已经正式提出的CVRA motion要求的是：\n\ndocketing、notice、right to be heard、victim determination、timely ruling、sentencing participation……\n\n那么这些问题原则上仍然属于 §3771本身的程序问题。\n\n如果法院真正裁定它，可以准、可以拒绝、可以说没有standing、可以认为已经moot——但这和：\n\n“你去§853(n)吧”\n\n不是一回事。\n\n而且CVRA本身有自己的审查结构。特别是§3771(d)(3)对district court denial之后的 court of appeals mandamus review 有专门规定。所以如果district court明确拒绝CVRA relief，正常的下一层程序并不是把CVRA变成§853(n)产权案，而是看是否触发CVRA自己的上诉法院审查机制。\n\n所以现在我反而觉得你们要把案卷里的东西严格分成三盒：\n\n1. §853(n)：具体财产是谁的。\n2. CVRA：受害人身份、通知、出席、发言、及时裁决等程序权利。\n3. 刑事被告上诉26-1853：Torres在量刑、没收、程序处理过程中有没有犯影响郭判决的错误。\n\n最值得警惕的就是：法院不能因为现在有§853(n) ancillary proceeding，就假装以前没有裁掉的CVRA问题已经自动得到解决。\n\n这两个不是同一个东西。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q71fa4ac2c16f0f4f6a88"}}