{"id":"q231194081ce3440e2844","batch_id":"batch-000160","seq":98,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-09-24T01:02:42.900Z","text":"对，就是你标红的这一句非常关键：\n\n“counsel for the authenticated Himalaya Exchange (‘HEX’ or the ‘Exchange’) customers and third-party claimants previously identified to this Court”\n\n这里的意思不是“有人自称代表HEX投资者”这么简单。\n\nECF 872 是由律师 Bradford L. Geyer 正式签署并通过 CM/ECF 提交的。他明确表示自己代理的是已经经过认证的 HEX customers 和此前已经向法院识别过的 third-party claimants；脚注1进一步限定，他只代表实际聘请他的HEX会员，而且这些人的身份和余额已经通过HEX records和HID matching进行认证，并不代表所有HEX会员，也不代表郭文贵等刑事被告。 gov.uscourts.nysd.595325.872.0.pdf\n\n所以你画线的 “authenticated” 确实有分量。\n\n但法律上要把它准确理解为：\n\n“这些客户已经按照Geyer律师所述的HEX记录/HID匹配方法完成身份和余额认证”\n\n而不是：\n\n“Torres法院已经司法裁定这些人确实拥有被冻结账户里的钱。”\n\n后面这个产权问题仍然要走§853(n)。\n\n更重要的是，872没有只泛泛说“我们是受害投资者”。它把这些客户的主张直接落到了具体被冻结账户，例如约 $272,350,429.22 的 Himalaya International Reserves账户，并主张这是用来1:1支持客户HDO余额的reserve corpus；同时还列出HIC、HIFG等具体账户。 gov.uscourts.nysd.595325.872.0.pdf\n\n因此这份文件真正厉害的地方是，它正在尝试建立：\n\n具体客户身份/余额 → HEX内部records → HDO余额 → 特定reserve账户 → §853(n)(6)(A) superior property interest\n\n而不是：\n\n“我是投资者，所以政府应该赔我。”\n\n这两种法律地位差别非常大。\n\n而且Geyer在第9页明确把自己的理论定成 ownership / constructive trust，不是普通无担保债权。他引用Second Circuit的 Willis Management 和 Schwimmer，主张如果这些specific reserve funds实际上受constructive trust约束，那么它们 “was never truly the defendant’s property”，也就不是因为郭被定罪就天然可以作为他的财产没收。 gov.uscourts.nysd.595325.872.0.pdf\n\n这就开始真正碰到我们研究的 “Guo controls all assets” 的边界了。\n\n因为如果以后Special Master/Torres最终认定：\n\nHDO客户余额确实有1:1 reserve；\n这些客户可以逐人通过HEX records/HID对应余额；\nreserve资金是segregated或可trace的；\n适用法律产生constructive trust/superior title；\n\n那么即使郭对HEX具有某种实际控制，也会出现一个完全不同的问题：\n\n控制别人的财产，不等于取得了别人的财产权。\n\n这会直接把 control 和 ownership/obtain 分开。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q231194081ce3440e2844","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000160","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000160","notice":"这里汇集爆料革命参与者围绕郭文贵案的持续讨论，包括长期深度参与者及自述投入真金白银的投资者。他们分享亲历过程、资金投入与后续遭遇，并结合案卷展开追问、核对和观点交锋。这些来自事件内部的经验与细节，为理解事件经过和投资者处境提供了外部报道之外的重要视角。请结合具体发言判断其经历与依据，引用时保留发言者、时间和上下文。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q231194081ce3440e2844","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q231194081ce3440e2844/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q231194081ce3440e2844","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qf7bfe0eae98aa6ca399f","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-09-24T00:59:34.399Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf7bfe0eae98aa6ca399f"},{"id":"qf0d54a15e95a8619763d","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-09-24T01:01:10.971Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf0d54a15e95a8619763d"},{"id":"qc34ddedf42170abb9288","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-09-24T01:02:34.748Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc34ddedf42170abb9288"},{"id":"qef62f10465555d928370","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-09-24T01:02:44.542Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qef62f10465555d928370"},{"id":"q76e27164986e404211b3","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-09-24T01:03:08.702Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q76e27164986e404211b3"},{"id":"q5d740b24162ec46854f4","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-09-24T01:04:46.273Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5d740b24162ec46854f4"}],"parent_message":null}