{"id":"q24ee01aec8665e61379c","batch_id":"batch-000147","seq":153,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T21:08:44.886Z","text":"可以，但这里要把“vacate all tainted orders”理解得非常准确。\n\n如果法律论证真的走到“滥用裁量权/未行使必要司法判断 + wire fraud 的核心 property/fraud premise 被推翻”这一步，Tony 可以请求二巡撤销所有建立在同一错误基础上的相关命令。 但二巡不会因为标题写了“all tainted orders”就自动把整个案子所有命令一扫而空；它会看每一项 order 和被确认的错误之间有没有依赖关系。\n\n二巡自己的处理方式很典型。比如 United States v. Tanner 里，法院保留 conviction，但只把有问题的 restitution 和 forfeiture 部分 vacate/remand，因为错误只污染到那些部分。 反过来，如果 conviction 本身失去法律基础，那么依附于 conviction 的处罚命令就可能一起失去基础；二巡在 Libous 里就说明，当 conviction 被 vacate 后，与该 conviction 相连的 criminal fine 等也随之失去基础。\n\n所以夜神月现在想做的，其实应该分成两种情形。\n\n第一种，只证明 Torres 在 sentencing 阶段没有正确 exercise discretion / Rule 32 处理错误。\n这种情况下最现实的效果通常是：\n\nvacate sentence → remand resentencing，\n\n再根据错误范围处理 forfeiture、restitution、money judgment。它通常不会自动把 jury conviction 全部撤掉。\n\n第二种，进一步证明 wire fraud 本身的共同核心前提错误，而且这个错误贯穿其他 counts。\n\n这时范围就可能大很多。比如如果最终确认：\n\n“受害人的property → 被欺骗取得 → 构成fraud proceeds”\n\n这个共同前提在法律上错误，而 Count 7、9、11 的 wire fraud 都依赖它，那么这些 counts 可能直接受到影响。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q623543f96798ed0c7c1d","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q24ee01aec8665e61379c","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q623543f96798ed0c7c1d","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000147","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000147","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q24ee01aec8665e61379c","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q24ee01aec8665e61379c/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q24ee01aec8665e61379c","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q3e98ed464e7e05eded1d","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T20:57:25.203Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3e98ed464e7e05eded1d"},{"id":"q623543f96798ed0c7c1d","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T20:59:28.447Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q623543f96798ed0c7c1d"},{"id":"q9d420d963b70e106fa77","speaker":".an***","date":"2026-08-19T21:03:01.807Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9d420d963b70e106fa77"},{"id":"q980a23c1047917f9fcba","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T21:08:49.847Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q980a23c1047917f9fcba"},{"id":"qdd20b19bb66118a447ef","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T21:08:54.872Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdd20b19bb66118a447ef"},{"id":"q4ffed413b1fd82edb719","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T21:24:43.494Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4ffed413b1fd82edb719"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q623543f96798ed0c7c1d","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T20:59:28.447Z","text":"［用户 roy***］  你再问 如果法律论证到此为止 滥用裁量权+wire fraud推翻 tony是否可以让二巡打vacate all tained order 会有什么效果","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q623543f96798ed0c7c1d"}}