{"id":"q2c291e9b61ab1b46cb88","batch_id":"batch-000072","seq":733,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-23T13:15:45.619Z","text":"/这个羊帮的某K 用心非常恶毒 和青们一样 故意玩儿文字游戏 扭曲事实 偷换概念 \n/而且借用AI骗人 混淆逻辑 故意遗漏重点 红线是它的原始标记 蓝色圈内才是致命点\n/“只要去要钱 就是受害者”放它娘的罗圈屁！\n左图\n/注意 第一种要钱 是“赦免” 走853i 它是先承认“受害人victim”这一角色为前提 再谈 向“政府”要钱 赦免返还（petition for remission)\n狗屁逻辑 到底是 “先要钱-再当受害者” 还是 “先当受害者-再要钱”？\n第二种要钱 是“索赔”走853 n “个人”比“政府”更强的主张（注意这里的逻辑 意思是 要钱除了 “当受害者-853i-政府-赦免返还” 还可以“不当受害者-853 n-个人-直接返还” ）\n右图 \n/注意这个AI总结的前提 是先承认了“受害者” \n/在“受害者”前提下 大可能被视为普通债权人 再去试图引用853n 可能不会被通过\n/蓝圈里“换言之。。。” 那句话的意思是 申请过 赦免返还=受害者 再试图去用853 n 不可能 \n总结\n1  要钱 不等于 必须当 受害者（前后逻辑）\n还可以走 索赔-853 n-个人-直接返还\n2 提交了 赦免返还（petition for remission)  再试图用853 n 不会通过\n3 青们鼓动的25年3月填表 6000人这部分都是赦免返还 \n勾选victim者 自己承认是受害者（不用被法官认定）走853i \n勾选owner者 因为材料内容只支持赦免返还 依旧会被法官认为是 受害者 （即使盖尔在759声明了要使用853n 但这是口炮 骗人而已 他也明白很难通过）","edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c291e9b61ab1b46cb88","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000072","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000072","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c291e9b61ab1b46cb88","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c291e9b61ab1b46cb88/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q2c291e9b61ab1b46cb88","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qb08e74930a3b885d189f","speaker":"mia***","date":"2026-01-23T12:23:31.386Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb08e74930a3b885d189f"},{"id":"q4904b622d727995221c5","speaker":"rui***","date":"2026-01-23T13:03:59.238Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4904b622d727995221c5"},{"id":"qe135a0d54b54c7c73808","speaker":"rui***","date":"2026-01-23T13:09:42.438Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe135a0d54b54c7c73808"},{"id":"q3318fd9741851d8ba83c","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-23T13:26:21.258Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3318fd9741851d8ba83c"},{"id":"q686827284b40c46b7b56","speaker":"siy***","date":"2026-01-23T13:41:18.364Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q686827284b40c46b7b56"},{"id":"q45cd9e2b50d80b138af8","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-23T14:11:49.925Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q45cd9e2b50d80b138af8"}],"parent_message":null}