{"id":"q2c2c7e94cb2d37d8f43f","batch_id":"batch-000160","seq":282,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-09-25T10:12:06.819Z","text":"现在检方又和luc和解了，前期的任性，冲定罪量刑，计算loss，需要人来背锅，只有300农场主骨干了\n庭审检方证人，王郭量刑时受害者陈述，盖尔代理的造假，luc那里的虚假债权登记，都是一批人","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q664c62cb4c48c295b1ee","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c2c7e94cb2d37d8f43f","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q664c62cb4c48c295b1ee","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000160/pages/2","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000160/pages/2","notice":"这里汇集爆料革命参与者围绕郭文贵案的持续讨论，包括长期深度参与者及自述投入真金白银的投资者。他们分享亲历过程、资金投入与后续遭遇，并结合案卷展开追问、核对和观点交锋。这些来自事件内部的经验与细节，为理解事件经过和投资者处境提供了外部报道之外的重要视角。请结合具体发言判断其经历与依据，引用时保留发言者、时间和上下文。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c2c7e94cb2d37d8f43f","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c2c7e94cb2d37d8f43f/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q2c2c7e94cb2d37d8f43f","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qd7c31c222d25ba033e48","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-09-25T10:02:06.712Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd7c31c222d25ba033e48"},{"id":"q553be57b7bd0dd8bb543","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-09-25T10:02:48.083Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q553be57b7bd0dd8bb543"},{"id":"qeff8d3f079b3e7212436","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-09-25T10:03:14.797Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeff8d3f079b3e7212436"},{"id":"q229c171c38354997bb2e","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-09-25T10:31:11.000Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q229c171c38354997bb2e"},{"id":"q2e9ea028885259b60fc7","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-09-25T10:33:27.564Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2e9ea028885259b60fc7"},{"id":"q0e397a457c34671d3a08","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-09-25T10:59:26.392Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0e397a457c34671d3a08"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q664c62cb4c48c295b1ee","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-09-25T01:59:32.001Z","text":"最后，我认为你现在抓到的一个核心矛盾值得单独研究\n可以把它浓缩成一句非常锋利的问题：\n政府是否可以先通过 U.S. Trustee 机制建立一个以“Guo 控制这些实体”为前提的破产程序环境，再利用该程序环境中产生的 trustee allegations、orders、avoidance proceedings 和其他 procedural consequences，在刑事案件中反过来证明最初那个尚未被司法确认的“Guo ownership/control”前提？\n如果事实确实是这样，那么真正需要法院回答的不是简单的：\n“这些是不是毒树之果？”\n而是三个连续问题：\n① 谁首先提出了 G-series 属于 Guo 这一前提？\n② 哪一个法院、在什么具体 order 中，真正 adjudicate 了这一前提？\n③ 如果没有这样的 adjudication，政府为什么可以把后来由该前提驱动产生的破产程序产物，当成独立证据来证明这个前提本身？\n我认为第三个问题尤其值得深挖。因为它可以把你现在比较分散的“Luc 利益冲突、G-series、投资者债权、直播剪辑、TRO、fraudulent transfer、内部证人、Guo 控制实体”全部串成一条法律分析链，而不需要把每一个后续司法行为都硬塞进“毒树之果”这个 doctrine 里面。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q664c62cb4c48c295b1ee"}}