{"id":"q2c5274acb6886e046de7","batch_id":"batch-000097","seq":491,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-04-03T12:11:02.344Z","text":"所以打曼宁那开始案子就不正常，到现在刑事案的乌烟瘴气把破产案的违法乱纪掩盖了","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"qecaed47bbcffcddbb547","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c5274acb6886e046de7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qecaed47bbcffcddbb547","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000097/pages/3","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000097/pages/3","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c5274acb6886e046de7","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c5274acb6886e046de7/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q2c5274acb6886e046de7","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qa52a64810367f899687a","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-03T12:09:21.605Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa52a64810367f899687a"},{"id":"qd9b4871c2ee00150c193","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-03T12:09:43.543Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd9b4871c2ee00150c193"},{"id":"q08765928dbb6a338a981","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-04-03T12:10:45.725Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q08765928dbb6a338a981"},{"id":"q21ceb37f3a5628db5895","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-03T12:13:53.780Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q21ceb37f3a5628db5895"},{"id":"q9217c2bba707abc44a0f","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-04-03T12:14:47.084Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9217c2bba707abc44a0f"},{"id":"qc5909aabe765b31eeeb4","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-04-03T12:15:34.239Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc5909aabe765b31eeeb4"}],"parent_message":{"id":"qecaed47bbcffcddbb547","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-29T01:34:36.210Z","text":"1. 这种“循环论证”的法律解剖\n​你提到的逻辑怪圈可以被拆解为以下三个违法的“阶梯”：\n​阶梯一（非法入账）： Luc 在没有进行**“穿透性审计（Piercing the Corporate Veil Analysis）”**之前，就接受了针对郭个人的债权申报。这在法律上极其反常。正常逻辑是：你投了 A 公司，你只能告 A 公司。除非法庭先裁定 A 公司是郭的“马甲（Alter Ego）”，你才能把债权登记在郭名下。\n​阶梯二（以果推因）： 随后，Luc 拿着这些数额巨大的“债权登记”对法官说：“看，有这么多针对郭的债权，说明这些 G 系实体事实上就是郭的财产（否则债权人为什么找他？），所以这些实体应该被合并破产。”\n​阶梯三（闭环收割）： 到了刑事庭，检方又拿着破产庭的这个“结论”说：“看，破产受托人都认定这些实体属于郭了，所以里面的 13 亿全是郭的‘犯罪所得’，必须没收。”\n​结论： 他们利用“债权登记”这个行政动作，强行创造了一个“法律事实”，然后用这个“事实”去支撑没收令和量刑。\n实际上支撑的不仅是没收和量刑，而是起诉，定罪，没收，量刑，都是以虚假债权为基础推动的。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qecaed47bbcffcddbb547"}}