{"id":"q2eabdf3a53f03f44f43b","batch_id":"batch-000118","seq":749,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-14T17:35:38.771Z","text":"1: 钱进美国之前 如果通过中介 黄牛层层转账 那受害者归属不清，这笔钱不能没收，不仅不能没收，定罪也不能用这个证据。而现在没收资金里面大量是这样的资金来源，检方恶意掩盖，这是司法欺诈，单这一条就至少重审。\n2: 同一笔钱 两种司法定义， 没有解决途径，量刑前必须解决才能继续\n3: 检方隐瞒中国政府判为国安罪的钱是否可以定罪，没收。 如果一笔钱，检方想用来定义是诈骗所得，给被告定罪，那么这笔钱的归属必须清楚。这里，同一笔钱，不仅经过黄牛中介转账，很多还被判为国安罪，那么这笔钱的归属，中国当局甚至都可以申诉。 这种情况下，美国是不能用这笔钱来定罪 量刑的","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q8a55338979711ab63c38","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2eabdf3a53f03f44f43b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8a55338979711ab63c38","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000118","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000118","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2eabdf3a53f03f44f43b","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2eabdf3a53f03f44f43b/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q2eabdf3a53f03f44f43b","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qe38a9da40f2eb947769f","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-06-14T17:09:08.252Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe38a9da40f2eb947769f"},{"id":"q8a55338979711ab63c38","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-14T17:23:00.113Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8a55338979711ab63c38"},{"id":"q33359cad0773e37c8eae","speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-06-14T17:26:00.821Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q33359cad0773e37c8eae"},{"id":"qd22cbf2c3ac5a4fce7f5","speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-06-14T17:36:31.459Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd22cbf2c3ac5a4fce7f5"},{"id":"qa80abe10045191339319","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-14T17:36:46.235Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa80abe10045191339319"},{"id":"qda0384aabfe9a8b00b5c","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-14T17:37:19.775Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qda0384aabfe9a8b00b5c"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q8a55338979711ab63c38","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-14T17:23:00.113Z","text":"致命漏洞：如果检方不能清楚证明“这笔钱在流出中国时，其所有权已经无争议地属于受害者”，那么美国政府没收这些钱的法律基础就是空的。这在法理上叫 “Lack of Standing”（缺乏诉讼主体资格）。如果钱的归属权在多个司法管辖区之间存在纠纷，怎么能直接定性为诈骗所得呢？","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8a55338979711ab63c38"}}