{"id":"q3318fd9741851d8ba83c","batch_id":"batch-000072","seq":734,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-23T13:26:21.258Z","text":"这个某K 可能是真的蠢 不太像装蠢 \n不知是AI把它绕晕了 还是它把AI train傻了\n上图\n/还是前提 它先承认当了“受害人” 才谈“债权人”地位\n除了受害人 第三方853n 也是债权人\n（1 直接做受害人-“普通”债权人\n2 直接做第三方853n-“优先”债权人）\n下图\n/这个“可能改善地位的途径”指的还是 \n先承认“受害人”这个角色 成为“普通债权人”\n再谈“受害人”如何改善自己的“债权人”地位\n/先当“受害人” (如853i ) 之后再用853n 程序上没有问题 \n这里的“辩护律师”是指盖尔的角色 不是郭的律师（盖尔在759之前用853i 759再试图用853n \n但是貌似行不通 因为提交的材料 不支持853n \n只能继续被程序认定为 853i 豁免返还 受害者）\n总结\n进案子里 先用853i当受害者 或者先用853n第三方 顺序不同 债权人的等级也不同\n当了853i受害者 程序上还可以用853n 能否通过 另说","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3318fd9741851d8ba83c","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000072/pages/4","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000072/pages/4","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3318fd9741851d8ba83c","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3318fd9741851d8ba83c/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q3318fd9741851d8ba83c","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q4904b622d727995221c5","speaker":"rui***","date":"2026-01-23T13:03:59.238Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4904b622d727995221c5"},{"id":"qe135a0d54b54c7c73808","speaker":"rui***","date":"2026-01-23T13:09:42.438Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe135a0d54b54c7c73808"},{"id":"q2c291e9b61ab1b46cb88","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-23T13:15:45.619Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c291e9b61ab1b46cb88"},{"id":"q686827284b40c46b7b56","speaker":"siy***","date":"2026-01-23T13:41:18.364Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q686827284b40c46b7b56"},{"id":"q45cd9e2b50d80b138af8","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-23T14:11:49.925Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q45cd9e2b50d80b138af8"},{"id":"qfd95d36f073b9f1a05cb","speaker":"yyy***","date":"2026-01-23T14:21:29.965Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfd95d36f073b9f1a05cb"}],"parent_message":null}