{"id":"q4e2e10e78a1063a709a1","batch_id":"batch-000073","seq":222,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-25T03:28:02.115Z","text":"👆仔细看上面这个 \n羊帮的KK 就是在先853i当受害者的条件下再去谈853n \n目的还是抹黑一开始就用853n自诉的第三方 \n它的许多话都是故意混淆逻辑带骗话题挖坑和青们的手法一样样的用心非常恶毒所以我盯着它骂","edited":false,"reply_to":"q2c291e9b61ab1b46cb88","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4e2e10e78a1063a709a1","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c291e9b61ab1b46cb88","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000073","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000073","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4e2e10e78a1063a709a1","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4e2e10e78a1063a709a1/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q4e2e10e78a1063a709a1","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q1e92543a12cfe91f48ae","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-01-25T03:22:00.044Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1e92543a12cfe91f48ae"},{"id":"qa43ec471cbea027bef77","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-01-25T03:22:31.040Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa43ec471cbea027bef77"},{"id":"q07d2cba79f29589bb466","speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-01-25T03:24:20.174Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q07d2cba79f29589bb466"},{"id":"q646b7242bb6879f61db7","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-25T03:37:00.497Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q646b7242bb6879f61db7"},{"id":"q73d9b0dea810d08edbf2","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-25T03:38:37.914Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q73d9b0dea810d08edbf2"},{"id":"q7d431d7f69375749aaf9","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-01-25T03:39:35.959Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7d431d7f69375749aaf9"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q2c291e9b61ab1b46cb88","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-23T13:15:45.619Z","text":"/这个羊帮的某K 用心非常恶毒和青们一样故意玩儿文字游戏扭曲事实偷换概念 \n/而且借用AI骗人混淆逻辑故意遗漏重点红线是它的原始标记蓝色圈内才是致命点\n/“只要去要钱就是受害者”放它娘的罗圈屁！\n左图\n/注意第一种要钱是“赦免” 走853i 它是先承认“受害人victim”这一角色为前提再谈向“政府”要钱赦免返还（petition for remission)\n狗屁逻辑到底是 “先要钱-再当受害者” 还是 “先当受害者-再要钱”？\n第二种要钱是“索赔”走853 n “个人”比“政府”更强的主张（注意这里的逻辑意思是要钱除了 “当受害者-853i-政府-赦免返还” 还可以“不当受害者-853 n-个人-直接返还” ）\n右图 \n/注意这个AI总结的前提是先承认了“受害者” \n/在“受害者”前提下大可能被视为普通债权人再去试图引用853n 可能不会被通过\n/蓝圈里“换言之。。。” 那句话的意思是申请过赦免返还=受害者再试图去用853 n 不可能 \n总结\n1 要钱不等于必须当受害者（前后逻辑）\n还可以走索赔-853 n-个人-直接返还\n2 提交了赦免返还（petition for remission) 再试图用853 n 不会通过\n3 青们鼓动的25年3月填表 6000人这部分都是赦免返还 \n勾选victim者自己承认是受害者（不用被法官认定）走853i \n勾选owner者因为材料内容只支持赦免返还依旧会被法官认为是受害者（即使盖尔在759声明了要使用853n 但这是口炮骗人而已他也明白很难通过）","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q2c291e9b61ab1b46cb88"}}