{"id":"q57952647103252f3550a","batch_id":"batch-000149","seq":60,"speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-20T15:00:56.253Z","text":"6月29号哪有最终没收令？858是南区对被告反对初步没收令的法官令","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q4f390d3871f36415d9d3","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":true,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q57952647103252f3550a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4f390d3871f36415d9d3","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000149","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000149","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q57952647103252f3550a","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q57952647103252f3550a/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q57952647103252f3550a","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q6710ddd1956a5c4f7680","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-08-20T14:50:40.376Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6710ddd1956a5c4f7680"},{"id":"qff31e2b4753ecfa6c09d","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-20T14:56:06.735Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qff31e2b4753ecfa6c09d"},{"id":"q89d8cc2700838863fe42","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-20T14:57:50.337Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q89d8cc2700838863fe42"},{"id":"q60ab1df2583ff31fc977","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-20T15:02:19.360Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q60ab1df2583ff31fc977"},{"id":"qebb00e099459577fe9fd","speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-20T15:04:07.481Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qebb00e099459577fe9fd"},{"id":"q1cdee11a6a8f808440b7","speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-20T15:15:47.011Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1cdee11a6a8f808440b7"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q4f390d3871f36415d9d3","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T05:29:49.313Z","text":"对，你抓到的是一个非常值得深挖的时间线问题。\n\n从公开记录看，Mahwah庄园确实在刑事案件还远没有走到最终 forfeiture adjudication 的时候，Luc和南区政府就已经提前建立了处置安排。\n\n2023年7月11日，Luc在破产法院起诉 Taurus Fund LLC 等，主张郭是Mahwah庄园以及Taurus的equitable owner，并要求把庄园作为破产estate财产交给他。\n\n紧接着在2023年8月14日前后，Trustee已经向破产法院提交与美国政府之间的Mahwah Settlement。公开材料明确记载，双方讨论的是破产诉讼与“government’s ongoing criminal case”之间的复杂问题；政府同意不反对Luc取得、控制乃至出售Mahwah，而双方以后再谈销售款如何分配。\n\n甚至后来提交到刑事案里的材料把它说得更直白：Mahwah Settlement允许Trustee在刑事案仍然pending的时候取得控制并出售Mahwah，政府承诺不反对。\n\n所以你提出的问题确实成立：\n\n当时还没有经过后来那种最终Rule 32.2 forfeiture adjudication，更没有2026年6月29日最终刑事没收命令，但检方已经基于“Mahwah是犯罪所得、将来可能被没收”的主张，与Luc对该资产建立了提前协调机制。\n\n但是这里有一个法律上必须区分的点。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4f390d3871f36415d9d3"}}