{"id":"q5bb322e3c851374ef832","batch_id":"batch-000151","seq":226,"speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-25T10:14:30.430Z","text":"不要总是假设政府和法院是对的，可能这就是它们太草率，然后被陪审团的gtv无罪给弄得圆起来很困难。既然郭是boss，理论上，不找其它boss，那王都量刑了，对其个人的金钱判决和资产没收在程序上已经在量刑前作出，我们没去仔细翻这部分记录而已，但比较确定的是没有说要对王没收那5.11，所以那5..11亿要么再抓一个boss 来背，要么整个犯罪集团的金钱犯罪责任就得减去这5.11亿。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"qb2e4a47279fb2be05cc8","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5bb322e3c851374ef832","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb2e4a47279fb2be05cc8","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000151/pages/2","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000151/pages/2","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5bb322e3c851374ef832","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5bb322e3c851374ef832/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q5bb322e3c851374ef832","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q7b76f8cb00bbbd3fb08d","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-25T10:03:36.051Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7b76f8cb00bbbd3fb08d"},{"id":"qc4302b3eb2a4ebcac5ba","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-25T10:04:37.765Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc4302b3eb2a4ebcac5ba"},{"id":"qb2e4a47279fb2be05cc8","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T10:06:21.301Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb2e4a47279fb2be05cc8"},{"id":"q923c193abe2d14c90fb5","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-25T10:19:25.058Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q923c193abe2d14c90fb5"},{"id":"q8edeb757f7f68895bf4d","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-25T10:23:34.557Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8edeb757f7f68895bf4d"},{"id":"q7f8fffeb6f4358b5387e","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T10:27:50.886Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7f8fffeb6f4358b5387e"}],"parent_message":{"id":"qb2e4a47279fb2be05cc8","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T10:06:21.301Z","text":"所以现在可以给Robert一个非常准确的回复：\n\n你说“连带责任不能跟空气承担”这个问题值得研究，但488原文不支持14亿减郭8.89亿等于5.11亿必须另找人背。王的14亿由两部分组成：她本人取得的Count One proceeds，以及Count Two laundering property；只有后者才与郭joint and several，而且限定为“to the extent a forfeiture money judgment is entered against Guo”。王自己的独立责任即使没有郭，也仍然存在，而且488第11项明确允许政府用王自己的substitute assets追未清偿余额。真正值得研究的是：858把郭从13亿降到8.89亿以后，488中与郭挂钩的joint-and-several部分是否应同步缩小，以及王14亿中Count One和Count Two各自到底是多少。\n\n现在最关键的缺口已经非常明确了：找到政府或王的plea/sentencing材料里对这14亿美元的分项计算。\n\n只要找到：\n\nCount One = X\nCount Two = Y\n\n我们就能真正算出Robert所谓“剩余5.11亿”的理论到底有没有任何数学和法律基础。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb2e4a47279fb2be05cc8"}}