{"id":"q646b7242bb6879f61db7","batch_id":"batch-000073","seq":223,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-25T03:37:00.497Z","text":"👆还有这个 它故意把789的内容 歪曲解读\n把第三方自诉853n 往“受害者”上面带\n这个舆论手法 和青只谈853 不讲853n和853i 之间的区别和先后顺序 是一样样的\n用心非常恶毒 稍不注意 就会被它带偏","edited":false,"reply_to":"q3318fd9741851d8ba83c","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q646b7242bb6879f61db7","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3318fd9741851d8ba83c","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000073","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000073","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q646b7242bb6879f61db7","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q646b7242bb6879f61db7/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q646b7242bb6879f61db7","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qa43ec471cbea027bef77","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-01-25T03:22:31.040Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa43ec471cbea027bef77"},{"id":"q07d2cba79f29589bb466","speaker":"chu***","date":"2026-01-25T03:24:20.174Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q07d2cba79f29589bb466"},{"id":"q4e2e10e78a1063a709a1","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-25T03:28:02.115Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4e2e10e78a1063a709a1"},{"id":"q73d9b0dea810d08edbf2","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-25T03:38:37.914Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q73d9b0dea810d08edbf2"},{"id":"q7d431d7f69375749aaf9","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-01-25T03:39:35.959Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7d431d7f69375749aaf9"},{"id":"qe32b203aaaeaedb7d352","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-01-25T05:07:59.475Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe32b203aaaeaedb7d352"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q3318fd9741851d8ba83c","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-01-23T13:26:21.258Z","text":"这个某K 可能是真的蠢 不太像装蠢 \n不知是AI把它绕晕了 还是它把AI train傻了\n上图\n/还是前提 它先承认当了“受害人” 才谈“债权人”地位\n除了受害人 第三方853n 也是债权人\n（1 直接做受害人-“普通”债权人\n2 直接做第三方853n-“优先”债权人）\n下图\n/这个“可能改善地位的途径”指的还是 \n先承认“受害人”这个角色 成为“普通债权人”\n再谈“受害人”如何改善自己的“债权人”地位\n/先当“受害人” (如853i ) 之后再用853n 程序上没有问题 \n这里的“辩护律师”是指盖尔的角色 不是郭的律师（盖尔在759之前用853i 759再试图用853n \n但是貌似行不通 因为提交的材料 不支持853n \n只能继续被程序认定为 853i 豁免返还 受害者）\n总结\n进案子里 先用853i当受害者 或者先用853n第三方 顺序不同 债权人的等级也不同\n当了853i受害者 程序上还可以用853n 能否通过 另说","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3318fd9741851d8ba83c"}}