{"id":"q791fde4d3ff4e88f8471","batch_id":"batch-000151","seq":191,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T09:02:09.719Z","text":"但Robert第二句话有一个法律上正确的核心\n\n他说：\n\n“美国刑事案被告不认罪，不可以缺席审判。”\n\n基本正确，但要加一个重要限定。\n\nFederal Rule of Criminal Procedure 43规定，被告原则上必须出席审判。如果一个被告从来没有在trial开始时到场，而且也没有plead guilty/nolo contendere，政府不能单纯因为他逃亡海外，就直接对他开一个普通felony jury trial并缺席定罪。Rule 43允许trial继续进行的典型情况，是：\n\n被告一开始已经在trial现场，后来主动逃跑/自愿缺席；\n\n或者他已经plead guilty。\n\n最高法院的 Crosby 原则也是这个方向。\n\n所以如果于建民人在海外、从未出庭、又没有认罪，确实不能简单“缺席审判把他判有罪”。\n\n但这和郭案specific-property forfeiture能不能继续，是两回事。\n\n⸻\n\n真正值得研究的是这一层\n\nRobert的直觉其实碰到了一个更好的问题：\n\n如果某些仍被列在郭Supplemental POF里的账户，主要或完全来自GTV路径，而：\n\n* 郭本人GTV Counts 5/6 = 无罪；\n* 郭的money judgment已经明确把GTV的$411m扣掉，降到$889m；\n* 王虽然认了一个很宽的wire-fraud conspiracy和money-laundering conspiracy，并同意$1.4b forfeiture；\n* 于建民又没有被美国法院定罪；\n\n那么真正该问的是：\n\n政府到底依据谁的什么罪名，把这一项具体GTV-related property继续放在“郭的”没收令里？\n\n如果答案是：\n\n“因为王认罪了，所以GTV就是fraud proceeds，因此郭的相关specific property也可以没收”，\n\n那还不够。\n\n还必须再证明：\n\n这项specific property到底属于郭什么right/title/interest；\n\n它如何属于郭已定罪Counts 1/2/3/4/7–11的proceeds或laundering property；\n\n不能仅仅因为另一个共犯王认罪，就把王的criminal liability自动转嫁成郭对这项specific asset的个人forfeiture liability。\n\n这才是非常值得深挖的点。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"qe340cd84028ee241e79b","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q791fde4d3ff4e88f8471","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe340cd84028ee241e79b","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000151","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000151","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q791fde4d3ff4e88f8471","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q791fde4d3ff4e88f8471/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q791fde4d3ff4e88f8471","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qa3d9cc40b304cf27b8a7","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T08:56:25.915Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa3d9cc40b304cf27b8a7"},{"id":"qcfe797ec678742d8b61b","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T09:01:31.960Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcfe797ec678742d8b61b"},{"id":"q558560fc75095135b9ad","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-25T09:02:04.472Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q558560fc75095135b9ad"},{"id":"qb5dc8bda42fda1497bb8","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T09:02:46.321Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb5dc8bda42fda1497bb8"},{"id":"qe59c53c5607ab456dae7","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T09:05:58.623Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe59c53c5607ab456dae7"},{"id":"qb11c5759cbcb80f045c3","speaker":"ken***","date":"2026-08-25T09:06:05.360Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb11c5759cbcb80f045c3"}],"parent_message":{"id":"qe340cd84028ee241e79b","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-25T08:51:42.956Z","text":"美国刑事案被告不认罪，不可以缺席审判。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe340cd84028ee241e79b"}}