{"id":"q82dc21629644b970edeb","batch_id":"batch-000148","seq":111,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T05:31:51.820Z","text":"2023年3月：刑事起诉，Mahwah被指为与犯罪所得有关\n→ 2023年7月：Luc起诉Taurus，要求证明Mahwah实际上属于郭\n→ 2023年：政府与Luc达成Mahwah Settlement，允许Luc控制/出售\n→ 2024年：Mahwah仍作为刑事审判中的重要事实和证据出现\n→ 2025年7月：破产法院才正式判Luc在beneficial ownership/alter ego问题上胜诉\n→ 2026年6月：刑事法院才作出最终forfeiture裁判。\n\n这条时间线本身很有价值。\n\n但要把它提升成真正的fraud on the court，你还需要找到下一层证据。例如：\n\n* 政府或Luc是否向刑事法院/破产法院隐瞒了Mahwah产权仍存在真实争议；\n* 是否向法院表示某个产权事实已经确定，而实际上没有；\n* 是否隐瞒了双方之间会影响法院独立判断的资产分配协议；\n* 是否利用刑事证据、保护令材料或检方掌握的非公开材料，帮助另一法院中的一方取得产权优势；\n* 是否在知道Mahwah可能作为刑事证据需要保存的情况下，通过出售或控制安排导致证据灭失、改变或无法有效审查；\n* 最关键的：这种行为是否导致法院在不知道真实情况的情况下作出裁决。\n\n因为二巡的标准很严。Kupferman明确说，fraud on the court不是法院不喜欢的所有不当行为，而是那种针对司法机制本身、使法院无法正常履行中立裁判功能的欺诈。 Gleason进一步说，它必须严重影响正常裁判过程的完整性。\n\n所以我现在不会写：\n\n“Mahwah Settlement就是司法欺诈。”\n\n我会写成更强也更安全的命题：\n\nMahwah record raises a substantial fraud-on-the-court / integrity-of-the-judicial-process issue because prosecutors and the bankruptcy Trustee coordinated control and potential disposition of property that simultaneously remained disputed third-party property and material criminal-case evidence, before either beneficial ownership or final criminal forfeiture had been judicially adjudicated.\n\n然后再追问一个真正致命的问题：\n\n政府当时向Torres法官完整披露过多少？破产法院又知道多少？\n\n如果后来能证明，两个法院看到的是不同版本的事实，而Luc和检方双方掌握完整事实却有选择地向法院呈现，那fraud-on-the-court理论就会比现在强很多。\n\n而且Mahwah还有一个很特别的点：2024年的刑事审判本身又使用了Mahwah交易和Taurus相关材料，庭审记录中明确出现Taurus Fund作为borrower以及Mahwah $26 million交易。换句话说，这个资产不仅是“要没收的东西”，同时还进入了政府证明案件事实的证据体系。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q82dc21629644b970edeb","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000148","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000148","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q82dc21629644b970edeb","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q82dc21629644b970edeb/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q82dc21629644b970edeb","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qe92b453b6cb5221eb03d","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T05:30:29.799Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe92b453b6cb5221eb03d"},{"id":"q8ab078df9aa44c7278f9","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T05:31:31.544Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8ab078df9aa44c7278f9"},{"id":"qf5f9797011ae457878cd","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-20T05:31:32.297Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf5f9797011ae457878cd"},{"id":"q4d8917c7a22dbfbc0d60","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T05:32:03.102Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4d8917c7a22dbfbc0d60"},{"id":"q56f0d4528a273729ca2d","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T05:32:59.837Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q56f0d4528a273729ca2d"},{"id":"q3ea471253f6025ff2ec6","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-20T05:45:03.718Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ea471253f6025ff2ec6"}],"parent_message":null}