{"id":"q854438b379cc97372744","batch_id":"batch-000147","seq":105,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T18:03:46.029Z","text":"5739说明一个很大的问题：很多资产到底属于郭、属于破产estate，还是属于第三方，根本没有彻底审清。Luc和检方之间对此存在重大冲突，最后是靠和解解决，不是法院把事实判明。 5739.pdf\n\n但与此同时，南区还是完成了量刑，政府也继续推进大规模没收。真正值得二巡追问的不是“为什么没等853(n)全部结束”，而是：\n\n在victim、loss、ownership这些核心事实都存在重大争议时，Torres有没有把这些争议事项当成已经确定的事实，用来支撑‘thousands of victims’、巨大loss和重刑。\n\n郭方Dkt.804已经正式说过：庭审真正作证的只是少数投资人，不能从少数人直接外推所有投资人都是受害者，而且很多人明确否认自己是victim。 804.pdf\n\n所以一句话概括就是：\n\n资产没审清，受害者没完全审清，loss也有重大争议，但法院还是在这个基础上完成了重刑和没收——这就是二巡应该审查的核心问题。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"qac7b852a5821b32289c0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q854438b379cc97372744","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qac7b852a5821b32289c0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000147","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000147","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q854438b379cc97372744","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q854438b379cc97372744/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q854438b379cc97372744","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q6605db7020ff128f8eca","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T17:27:21.671Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6605db7020ff128f8eca"},{"id":"qac7b852a5821b32289c0","speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-19T17:58:01.249Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qac7b852a5821b32289c0"},{"id":"qdc5165160db80508aa2d","speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-08-19T18:01:10.959Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdc5165160db80508aa2d"},{"id":"q5aa9f0bbf2d085082fd0","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T18:09:37.593Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5aa9f0bbf2d085082fd0"},{"id":"q221d44e7f78dd47d3eb5","speaker":"sar***","date":"2026-08-19T18:15:53.907Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q221d44e7f78dd47d3eb5"},{"id":"q0877dc0cfd5a0d6ae0b4","speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-19T18:43:50.217Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0877dc0cfd5a0d6ae0b4"}],"parent_message":{"id":"qac7b852a5821b32289c0","speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-19T17:58:01.249Z","text":"5739本身就证明了投资资产归属根本就没弄清楚，检方和破产案受托人存在重大冲突，在这种混乱的情况下检方始终坚持没收，南区直接量刑，还是顶格","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qac7b852a5821b32289c0"}}