{"id":"q8b79757ef1b8dfaed8e4","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":235,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-23T03:55:28.413Z","text":"我看了你刚上传的 Dkt. 858 原文。就这份文件本身来说，群友这段话里，后半句有一定道理，但第一句最关键的前提其实和858原文正面冲突。\n\n首先，858本身不是“个人资产没收令”或者新的Final Order of Forfeiture。 它是一份处理郭对 2025年8月11日 preliminary order of forfeiture（POF，Dkt.720）异议的 ORDER。第一页开头就写得非常清楚：\n\n“Defendant, Miles Guo, objects to the preliminary order of forfeiture (‘POF’) entered by the Court on August 11, 2025.”\n\n法院随后写的是，部分维持、部分驳回郭对那个POF的异议。 gov.uscourts.nysd.595325.858.0.pdf\n\n而且858最后没有说“本文件就是Final Order”。恰恰相反，它写：\n\n“the money judgment in the final order of forfeiture shall be $889 million.”\n\n也就是说，858是在决定未来final order里money judgment应该是多少，不是把自己称为final order。 gov.uscourts.nysd.595325.858.0.pdf\n\n所以如果群友说：\n\n“858不是初步没收令，所以政府没有何时和怎样执行的裁量权。”\n\n这个逻辑我认为站不住。\n\n更关键的是，858第16页几乎专门回答了这个问题，而且答案和群友说的正好相反。\n\n法院明确写：\n\nRule 32.2(b)(3) “authorizes” Government to seize specific property upon entry of the preliminary order, but does not require the Government to do so.\n\n紧接着又写：\n\nRule 32.2 does not state when, or how, the Government may seize property listed in the forfeiture order.\n\n而且§853(e)、(f)虽然允许法院采取一定保护措施，但并没有授权法院强迫Government进行seizure。 gov.uscourts.nysd.595325.858.0.pdf\n\n这一段其实非常致命。\n\n因为群友说：\n\n“政府没有何时和怎样执行的裁量权。”\n\n而Torres法官在858里恰好说：\n\nRule 32.2没有规定政府什么时候、以什么方式执行，而且法院不能强迫政府执行。\n\n所以至少以858自己的法律结论来看，政府明显保留执行层面的选择空间。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q8bcc7e66fcb5b2a52e72","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8b79757ef1b8dfaed8e4","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8bcc7e66fcb5b2a52e72","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150/pages/2","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150/pages/2","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8b79757ef1b8dfaed8e4","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8b79757ef1b8dfaed8e4/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q8b79757ef1b8dfaed8e4","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q8bcc7e66fcb5b2a52e72","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-23T03:42:02.305Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8bcc7e66fcb5b2a52e72"},{"id":"q380cef0e929838653ccb","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-23T03:44:17.154Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q380cef0e929838653ccb"},{"id":"qf54d3f3a70de3a772f92","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-23T03:50:04.066Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf54d3f3a70de3a772f92"},{"id":"qbf38011342c6e2971d84","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-23T03:56:42.310Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbf38011342c6e2971d84"},{"id":"qf09b6638cfadae7b2799","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-23T03:56:53.947Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf09b6638cfadae7b2799"},{"id":"q9cf0bef1f8be6177ea34","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-23T03:59:03.138Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9cf0bef1f8be6177ea34"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q8bcc7e66fcb5b2a52e72","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-23T03:42:02.305Z","text":"858是个人资产没收令，不是初步没收令，政府没有何时和怎样执行的裁量权。然后政府本来有权直接从luc那里执行强制移交，luc有不同意见，到南区来走民事附属程序，这应该才是正常程序。  ［用户 roy***］ 怎么看？","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8bcc7e66fcb5b2a52e72"}}