{"id":"q90d0fea82e873ea0b946","batch_id":"batch-000149","seq":169,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T19:19:00.110Z","text":"可以参与，而且刑事案里的“第三方自诉人”和投资人，到了破产案里身份会发生变化。最关键的是：破产法院不太关心你在刑事案里叫不叫“victim”，它更关心你在破产案里到底有什么经济权利。\n\n简单说，破产案里的“第三方”主要有几类：\n\n* 债权人/claimant：你主张郭或破产债务人欠你钱，就可以申报proof of claim。22-50073里早就存在大量claimants，Luc也一直对各种proofs of claim提出异议。\n* 财产权主张人/property claimant：你说某个被Luc当成estate property的资产，其实是你的，或者你对它有优先权。\n* adversary proceeding里的被告/利害关系人：Luc起诉某公司、个人追回资产，那些被告本身就是破产案里的第三方。\n* party in interest：范围比普通债权人更宽。Chapter 11下，11 U.S.C. §1109(b)允许包括creditor等“party in interest”出庭并就案件问题发表意见，但实际standing通常还要看你是否受到直接经济影响。第二巡回也强调过破产上诉standing一般要求直接、经济上的不利影响。\n* intervenor：如果你本来不是当然有权参与的人，还可以根据Bankruptcy Rule 2018请求法院允许介入；在具体adversary proceeding里还可能涉及Rule 7024/FRCP 24。Rule 2018本身就允许有cause的entity请求intervention。\n\n所以，刑事案里的自诉人到了破产案里，不会因为自己在23-cr-118里提交过CVRA、§853(n)、mandamus，就自动成为22-50073的party。\n\n你必须重新回答一个问题：\n\n我在破产案里到底有什么直接利益？\n\n比如Tony如果说：\n\n“我当年投资的钱现在被Luc当成estate property、被政府当成forfeiture property，或者5739会改变我对某项财产的追回路径。”\n\n这就比说：\n\n“我是刑事案victim，所以我要参加破产案。”\n\n强得多。\n\n因为前者是直接pecuniary/property interest。\n\n⸻\n\n投资人在破产案里最典型的身份是什么？\n\n如果你投资了郭相关项目，现在主张自己有权向郭追回本金，最自然的是：\n\ncreditor / claimant。\n\n也就是向bankruptcy estate申报债权。\n\n如果claim已经在claims register里，你的核心权利包括：\n\n* Trustee反对你的claim时回应；\n* 参加与自己claim直接有关的听证；\n* 对会影响你claim分配的plan、settlement、资产出售等提出异议；\n* 最后按bankruptcy priority和allowed claim获得分配。\n\n而且“你在刑事案是不是victim”和“你在破产案是不是creditor”是两个不同问题。\n\n完全可能：\n\n刑事案：政府不承认你是CVRA victim；\n破产案：你仍然有一笔有效contract/fraud claim。\n\n反过来也可能：\n\n刑事案：你是victim；\n破产案：你未必对debtor estate有allowed claim。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q605e9b65c4e23f5b32fa","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q90d0fea82e873ea0b946","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q605e9b65c4e23f5b32fa","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000149","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000149","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q90d0fea82e873ea0b946","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q90d0fea82e873ea0b946/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q90d0fea82e873ea0b946","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qdd8f0498a73a1e8a2feb","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T18:56:39.001Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qdd8f0498a73a1e8a2feb"},{"id":"q5904d204a5834ac06057","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T18:57:20.643Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5904d204a5834ac06057"},{"id":"q605e9b65c4e23f5b32fa","speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-21T19:11:26.357Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q605e9b65c4e23f5b32fa"},{"id":"q09509c588364761fb9ae","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T19:19:37.047Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q09509c588364761fb9ae"},{"id":"q6f3a248c0ec14eb29795","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T19:20:19.780Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6f3a248c0ec14eb29795"},{"id":"q96fa8fd28248b2c2d6c6","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-21T19:20:51.571Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q96fa8fd28248b2c2d6c6"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q605e9b65c4e23f5b32fa","speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-08-21T19:11:26.357Z","text":"破产案里的第三方是谁？刑事案里的自诉第三方以及投资人在破产案里是个什么角色？刑事案自诉人和投资人能不能参与破产案？如何参与？","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q605e9b65c4e23f5b32fa"}}