{"id":"q93ce38ff27ea37791abf","batch_id":"batch-000153","seq":38,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-27T06:37:59.626Z","text":"简单说就是，s3起诉书，涉及HEX的是3700万\n但是858把所有冻结HEX的5亿，都算进去了","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q1a902cbf437ce05ea732","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q93ce38ff27ea37791abf","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1a902cbf437ce05ea732","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000153","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000153","notice":"这里汇集爆料革命参与者围绕郭文贵案的持续讨论，包括长期深度参与者及自述投入真金白银的投资者。他们分享亲历过程、资金投入与后续遭遇，并结合案卷展开追问、核对和观点交锋。这些来自事件内部的经验与细节，为理解事件经过和投资者处境提供了外部报道之外的重要视角。请结合具体发言判断其经历与依据，引用时保留发言者、时间和上下文。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q93ce38ff27ea37791abf","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q93ce38ff27ea37791abf/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q93ce38ff27ea37791abf","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q5974906f07f306114199","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-27T06:24:40.416Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5974906f07f306114199"},{"id":"qf0bfe3aa43658ffbadb4","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-27T06:25:58.191Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf0bfe3aa43658ffbadb4"},{"id":"q1a902cbf437ce05ea732","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-27T06:34:46.663Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1a902cbf437ce05ea732"},{"id":"qbef6912d381b935fa856","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-27T06:43:11.093Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbef6912d381b935fa856"},{"id":"qb3e5e4d1c89ccfc28272","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-27T06:47:02.878Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb3e5e4d1c89ccfc28272"},{"id":"q9970034d2bd3e24ff5d3","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-27T06:47:42.199Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9970034d2bd3e24ff5d3"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q1a902cbf437ce05ea732","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-27T06:34:46.663Z","text":"这一轮有一个很硬的新点：S3起诉书对Count 3虽然写得很宽，但它真正点名的HEX具体洗钱交易，至少在起诉书正文里最醒目的就是约3700万美元那笔“游艇贷款”；而858最终却把HEX约5.17亿美元gross inflows整块塞进了889m judgment。这个量级差距非常大。\n\nS3的Count 3在法律上指控的是：郭、Je、Wang等共谋实施§1956(a)(1)(B)(i)、§1956(a)(2)(A)、§1956(a)(2)(B)(i)洗钱，并把Counts 5–11的犯罪收益作为specified unlawful activity。起诉书还明确要求没收“property involved in”这些洗钱犯罪。\n\n但具体到HEX，S3第19(g)段明确写的是：2022年4月，郭和Je安排约$37m Himalaya Exchange资金，从HEX银行账户转到一个escrow account，并包装成所谓loan，用于担保郭此前购买并使用的一艘豪华游艇。\n\n这笔$37m当然对政府很强。它至少提供了一个非常具体的：\n\nHEX funds → transfer → escrow → purported loan → yacht benefit\n\n的transactional nexus。\n\n但它同时暴露了一个非常大的问题：\n\n$37m具体HEX laundering transaction\n\n和\n\n$517m HEX gross account inflows\n\n完全不是一个数量级。\n\n858却没有说：\n\n“HEX有$37m、$80m、$150m……这些具体laundering transactions，合计正好$517m。”\n\n它说的是：GXZ26证明Farm、G Club、HEX的gross cash inflows约$889m，因此$889m就是money judgment。\n\n这就是现在最值得二巡问的一句话：\n\nWhere is the finding that approximately $517 million—not merely the identified $37 million yacht transaction or other specifically proven transfers—was property involved in Count Three?\n\n而且S3自己其实强化了这个区别。它在Count 3写的是：\n\nfinancial transaction\n\nproceeds of specified unlawful activity\ndesigned to conceal/disguise nature, source, ownership or control。\n\n也就是说，§1956 conspiracy指向的是带有这些洗钱特征的交易，而不是“所有进入HEX账户的钱”。\n\n所以如果某个客户只是：\n\n存入$100,000 → 账户余额显示HDO/HCN → 钱还在reserve体系\n\n这笔钱为什么已经自动成为：\n\nproperty involved in concealment laundering\n\n需要单独证明。\n\n政府不能只靠：\n\nHEX是诈骗项目\n\nCount 3成立\n郭是Boss\n\n就把整个HEX账户的所有gross inflows自动转换成§982 property involved。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1a902cbf437ce05ea732"}}