{"id":"q967fc82a9f19b0b23c88","batch_id":"batch-000151","seq":16,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-24T21:34:59.161Z","text":"现在我们可以把“Owner → Victim”的转换精确定位了\n\n目前已经有原件证明的流程是：\n\n第一步：Ancillary Petition\n\n联盟FAQ告诉成员：\n\n直接汇到21个冻结账户的人做Ancillary；\n\n每一个Asset ID请选择：\n\nOwner（资产主人）。 \n\n喜交所客户甚至明确：\n\n去Himalaya Restoration登记并签Affidavit，由律师处理第一阶段。 Forfeiture程序常见问题解答（327更新）.pdf\n\n↓\n\n第二步：Remission\n\n同一FAQ明确问：\n\n已经做了Ancillary，还要不要做Remission？\n\n回答：\n\n“是的。”\n\n而且除特定排除项目外，“都应该提交第二阶段Petition for remission。” Forfeiture程序常见问题解答（327更新）.pdf\n\n↓\n\n第三步：政府Petition系统\n\n新的填写教程直接告诉申请人：\n\n选择身份：Victim。 Forfeiture-Petition-填写教程.pdf\n\n↓\n\n第四步：Victim Petition\n\n政府问：\n\n你怎么成为underlying criminal offense的victim？\n\n教程继续指导填写经济损失。 Forfeiture-Petition-填写教程.pdf\n\n↓\n\n第五步：统一Statement Template\n\n示范：\n\n我的资金被 “misappropriated as part of the underlying criminal offense”；\n\n“As a victim”，我主张financial loss。 Forfeiture-Petition-填写教程.pdf\n\n↓\n\n第六步：\n\n申请人最后：\n\nunder penalty of perjury\n\n确认真实性，然后提交。\n\n这条链现在已经相当完整了。\n\n⸻\n\n所以这会改变我前面对“偷梁换柱”的评价\n\n前面只有第一份Remission示范的时候，我还会比较保守，因为它刻意写：\n\n“victim of the government forfeiture”\n\n而不是：\n\nvictim of Guo’s crime。\n\n现在这份教程出现以后，证据明显向前走了一步。\n\n因为它不仅知道政府真正要求的是：\n\ncriminal-offense victim\n\n而且直接提供：\n\n“my funds were misappropriated as part of the underlying criminal offense”\n\n和：\n\n“As a victim…”\n\n这种标准模板。 Forfeiture-Petition-填写教程.pdf\n\n所以现在可以非常严谨地说：\n\n至少在联盟传播的这套2025年Forfeiture/Remission教程中，成员一方面被指导在Ancillary Petition里以“Owner”身份主张自己的第三方财产权；另一方面又被普遍建议继续提交Remission，并在政府系统中选择“Victim”，使用把资金损失与underlying criminal offense联系起来的标准声明模板。\n\n这就是一个真实存在的双重身份指导体系。\n\n但我仍然不会直接写：\n\n“这证明联盟诈骗投资人/伪造受害者。”\n\n因为还差两个关键问题：\n\n谁制作了这份11页教程？\n\n以及：\n\n具体申请人是不是根据自己的真实情况独立判断后采用了模板？\n\n如果一个人确实认为自己是犯罪受害者，那他这样填完全可能是真实的。\n\n真正值得调查的是：\n\n联盟为什么把“Victim”作为统一教程里的明确选择，而不是告诉成员根据自己的真实法律身份在Owner / Lienholder / Victim之间自行判断？","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q967fc82a9f19b0b23c88","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000151","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000151","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q967fc82a9f19b0b23c88","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q967fc82a9f19b0b23c88/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q967fc82a9f19b0b23c88","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q1001487d30364c50784c","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-24T21:33:49.859Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1001487d30364c50784c"},{"id":"qb1461a956cfba3c5b73d","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-24T21:34:09.256Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb1461a956cfba3c5b73d"},{"id":"q0289e15e3535c39793b6","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-24T21:34:29.533Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0289e15e3535c39793b6"},{"id":"qd89875e0ef516455eca4","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-24T21:35:08.309Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd89875e0ef516455eca4"},{"id":"q3a50ee5326e902801b91","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-24T21:40:29.118Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3a50ee5326e902801b91"},{"id":"qb890cb558c608ce3bb21","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-24T21:45:42.820Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb890cb558c608ce3bb21"}],"parent_message":null}