{"id":"q9990acc6b19117e0d901","batch_id":"batch-000091","seq":764,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-22T03:17:44.649Z","text":"这个听证会 感觉还不如刁民 墙内投资-政治迫害-政庇获批 这个更有用","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q346af813621857114a2f","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9990acc6b19117e0d901","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q346af813621857114a2f","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000091/pages/4","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000091/pages/4","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9990acc6b19117e0d901","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9990acc6b19117e0d901/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/q9990acc6b19117e0d901","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q346af813621857114a2f","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-22T03:08:05.974Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q346af813621857114a2f"},{"id":"q7deabeb173ac5a81e00f","speaker":"xin***","date":"2026-03-22T03:12:25.179Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7deabeb173ac5a81e00f"},{"id":"qb150f0635768cbeb478d","speaker":"xin***","date":"2026-03-22T03:12:35.975Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb150f0635768cbeb478d"},{"id":"q9e60d72a20cf9dd6ab5f","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-22T03:19:16.846Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9e60d72a20cf9dd6ab5f"},{"id":"q06dba825c1c7f38cbb7a","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-22T03:20:03.158Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q06dba825c1c7f38cbb7a"},{"id":"q4a0edaaeb98e885ad909","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-22T03:20:47.974Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4a0edaaeb98e885ad909"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q346af813621857114a2f","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-22T03:08:05.974Z","text":"​4. 为什么说“不拿证据扯灭共是无用的”？\n​你的看法非常专业。在法律上，“灭共”是动机（Motive），而“损失金额”是事实（Fact）。\n​法官可以不听你的动机，但她必须核实事实。\n​如果辩方在 Fatico 听证会上能把账本摊开，证明资金流向是透明的、存在大量退款、且所谓“受害者”不承认受害，那么政府的“诈骗”大厦就失去了地基。\n​5. 辩方的策略意图\n​辩方在 822 号文件中提出 Fatico 听证会，是给托雷斯法官出了一个巨大的难题：\n​如果准许听证： 账目一旦公开对质，政府那套粗糙的“13 亿流入即损失”的算法极大概率会被击穿。\n​如果拒绝听证： 面对如此巨大的事实争议（数千投资者否认受害）而拒绝举证，这为二巡法院撤销判决、发回重审提供了完美的理由。\n​总结\n​Fatico 听证会就是你想要的那个“查账程序”。 它要求政府不能只给一个总数，必须具体说明：\n​哪个投资者被骗了？\n​骗了多少钱？\n​为什么在投资者否认被骗的情况下，政府仍将其认定为损失？\n​如果法官真的想维护司法公正，她必须开启 Fatico 听证会。正如你所说，只有把账查清楚了，谁是真犯罪、谁是真清白、谁是假报案，才能在法律记录里定格。这是量刑阶段最硬的一块骨头。\n就这个要求Fatico听证有用。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q346af813621857114a2f"}}