{"id":"qa06ca3ff3be113d82820","batch_id":"batch-000152","seq":8,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T10:46:17.990Z","text":"到底怎样执行？\n\n怎样避免王和郭对同一laundering corpus重复付款？\n\n一方judgment减少时，另一方共同责任减少多少？\n\n一项specific property最终被没收后，同时给谁credit？\n\n这不是理论问题，是执行时一定会遇到的问题。\n\n⸻\n\n然后我又发现一个非常重要的校准：858其实没有裁定“因为郭GTV无罪，所以GTV不能没收”\n\n这一点以后群里千万不要说错。\n\n郭确实提出：\n\nGTV Counts 5/6无罪，因此$411m GTV不应该进入forfeiture。\n\n但Torres在858明确说：\n\n“The Court need not resolve this”\n\n因为还有另一个足够解决问题的理由：\n\nGTV相关实体已经在SEC程序中disgorge了$411m，政府也承认这笔钱已经由SEC追回并建立Fair Fund，因此从郭的money judgment扣掉$411m。\n\n所以858真正裁定的是：\n\n郭13亿 − 已经被SEC追回的411m = 889m。\n\n并没有裁定：\n\n“郭GTV无罪，因此法律上GTV绝对不能作为任何forfeiture理论。”\n\n这个区别非常重要。\n\n它意味着王的14亿里即使包含GTV，也不能简单因为郭Counts 5/6无罪就自动删除。\n\n但是——\n\n同一$411m已经被SEC实际追回，政府当然不能再对同一财产实现double satisfaction。\n\n这个才是王那边真正应该查的。\n\n⸻\n\n而王自己的律师其实已经在2024年埋下了这个问题\n\nDkt.469非常值得重视。\n\n王律师明确写：\n\n她认罪时同意的是“approximately $1.4 billion” criminal forfeiture；\n\n但她认罪以后，政府自己的trial expert只accounted for $1.3 billion total funds流入GTV、Farm Loans、G Clubs和HEX。\n\n这说明至少在王自己的律师看来：\n\n1.4B不是后来trial accounting证实出来的精确数字。\n\n而政府2025年2月的Dkt.493仍然告诉法院：\n\nWang被判120个月，并被ordered forfeiture $1.4B。\n\n同时493又承认，在赔付victims时必须调查：\n\n这个victim是否已经通过SEC或其他渠道得到补偿。 \n\n所以政府自己完全知道：\n\nSEC recovery不能被当作不存在。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa06ca3ff3be113d82820","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000152","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000152","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa06ca3ff3be113d82820","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa06ca3ff3be113d82820/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qa06ca3ff3be113d82820","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qc6dd1f73e66ab728f7c6","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-25T10:41:51.004Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc6dd1f73e66ab728f7c6"},{"id":"qfa9f22524ffed18d3861","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T10:43:14.720Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfa9f22524ffed18d3861"},{"id":"q509e388c34aca351ea2b","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T10:43:40.773Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q509e388c34aca351ea2b"},{"id":"qecf9db2881a0ac29af62","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T10:46:40.904Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qecf9db2881a0ac29af62"},{"id":"qf89b9bd4ae622cbde710","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T10:48:59.353Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf89b9bd4ae622cbde710"},{"id":"q01aee57f5e613a922809","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T10:49:23.166Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q01aee57f5e613a922809"}],"parent_message":null}