{"id":"qa4860e5861c7c1b5d3a0","batch_id":"batch-000149","seq":127,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T22:49:40.632Z","text":"更关键的是：Geyer的法律角色确实发生了明显切换\n\n这个现在已经不是推测。\n\n最开始：第三方产权/返还财产\n\nDkt.186的核心是：\n\n3,345名HEX customers依据Rule 41(g)要求返还被政府扣押的property。\n\n客户被定义为：\n\nthird-party property holders。\n\n这条逻辑是：\n\n“这是我们的钱，不是郭的钱，也不是犯罪所得。”\n\n政府在223回应时也明确说：\n\n如果真要主张第三方产权，正常路径应该等preliminary forfeiture以后走 §853(n) ancillary proceeding。\n\n这其实说明：\n\n政府自己当时都把他们理解成潜在§853(n) property claimants。\n\n但2024年11月，Geyer明显转向了“victim”体系\n\nDkt.478是非常关键的转折。\n\n他正式写：\n\nfinancial victims\n\n而且引用：\n\nCVRA 18 U.S.C. §3771\n\n并且说自己代表：\n\n5,280 and counting Himalaya Exchange depositors\n\n还援引CVRA里：\n\nvictim right to confer with Government；\nrestitution；\nsentencing participation；\nvictim notification；\n大规模victim程序。\n\n这已经不是纯§853(n)产权律师了。\n\n到这里，Geyer实际上在说：\n\n“我这5000多人不仅是property owners，同时也是crime victims。”\n\n这就是你们一直怀疑的身份切换点。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa4860e5861c7c1b5d3a0","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000149","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000149","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa4860e5861c7c1b5d3a0","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa4860e5861c7c1b5d3a0/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qa4860e5861c7c1b5d3a0","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q29713dda849256bf08ce","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T21:39:51.961Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q29713dda849256bf08ce"},{"id":"q1269aca89396bab19fda","speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-08-20T22:07:18.277Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1269aca89396bab19fda"},{"id":"q96bd9b56f12add340aed","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T22:49:17.363Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q96bd9b56f12add340aed"},{"id":"qbe004de0a0ea5339a764","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T22:49:51.496Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbe004de0a0ea5339a764"},{"id":"q496e15d633728066c03c","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T22:50:02.447Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q496e15d633728066c03c"},{"id":"q3ddeeba33d7be3e1fcae","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T22:50:37.743Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3ddeeba33d7be3e1fcae"}],"parent_message":null}