{"id":"qaf59d563b7660eab5e8f","batch_id":"batch-000151","seq":76,"speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-08-25T02:13:49.722Z","text":"喜交所的资金被没收问题，为啥特务发现了某些自诩最正确的人都没发现呢                                                         没收的资产如果检方没有证明被告所得了也没有证明被告曾经控制过，法院就纳入了没收范围内，属于非法没收吗？\n\n是的，如果政府对于某项特定财产既没有证明它是被告取得的犯罪所得，也没有证明它曾经处于被告足以构成 forfeiture 的控制之下，同时法院却把它列入刑事没收范围，那么这个没收决定存在非常严重的法律错误。                                                                                                  即使按照法院858的理论，被告曾经控制过资产就可以没收，喜交所也不满足这个没收条件，汉密尔顿的756也阐述得很清楚，只可惜他们最后还是落到了853n上而已                                                                               因此，如果南区根本没有完成 §32.2(b)(1)(A) 要求的 nexus determination，问题就不是“等 §853(n)”\nThis proceeding does not involve relitigation of the forfeitability of the property\n而是：Preliminary Order 本身是否是在缺少法定前提的情况下发布的？\n尤其你现在描述的事实是：\n政府说喜交所是所谓犯罪工具；\n但客户美元在客户自己名下；\n客户可以要求提取；\n政府并没有证明这些美元属于郭；\n政府也没有证明这些特定美元是郭本人取得的 proceeds；\n南区却把这些资金纳入郭的 Preliminary Order；\n而法院没有作出你所说的 property-to-offense requisite nexus 的具体审查。\n如果案卷能够支持这些事实，那么你的核心不是：\n“第三方请求 §853(n)。”\n而是：\n“The Court entered the preliminary forfeiture order without first making the forfeiture determination required by Rule 32.2(b)(1)(A).”\n所以你现在的理论可以非常明确地说：\n我不是在要求法院认定“我的财产权优先于被告”。\n而是：我要求审查法院是否错误地把根本不满足 forfeiture statute 要求的财产纳入 Preliminary Order。\n这属于 forfeitability / forfeiture determination。\n§853(n) 属于另外一个问题：","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaf59d563b7660eab5e8f","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000151","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000151","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaf59d563b7660eab5e8f","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qaf59d563b7660eab5e8f/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qaf59d563b7660eab5e8f","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qa23329570a3f21b7246a","speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-08-25T01:53:20.332Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa23329570a3f21b7246a"},{"id":"qa9b8affce1f83acdd0cc","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-25T01:54:06.738Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa9b8affce1f83acdd0cc"},{"id":"qeb256f3764458e35f168","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-25T02:00:53.298Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qeb256f3764458e35f168"},{"id":"q86ac751f516e406fabd1","speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-08-25T02:17:08.415Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q86ac751f516e406fabd1"},{"id":"qc7a88d12c5d9a484728b","speaker":"spr***","date":"2026-08-25T02:19:53.321Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc7a88d12c5d9a484728b"},{"id":"q4acc68a502d2b5201fdc","speaker":"beg***","date":"2026-08-25T02:21:56.460Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q4acc68a502d2b5201fdc"}],"parent_message":null}