{"id":"qb5bbf1d25d4bc6421984","batch_id":"batch-000119","seq":918,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-16T07:22:22.744Z","text":"1: 所有大陆的投资 都不能用来定罪 没收\n2: 所有海外中国公民的投资 都不能用来定罪 没收","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q9d147111943a6a9d06fc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb5bbf1d25d4bc6421984","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9d147111943a6a9d06fc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000119/pages/5","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000119/pages/5","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb5bbf1d25d4bc6421984","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb5bbf1d25d4bc6421984/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qb5bbf1d25d4bc6421984","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q359e9bb46b76f937c6d9","speaker":"hel***","date":"2026-06-16T07:11:45.414Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q359e9bb46b76f937c6d9"},{"id":"qa43af03dc030e6c2e487","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-06-16T07:15:23.679Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa43af03dc030e6c2e487"},{"id":"q9d147111943a6a9d06fc","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-16T07:20:30.210Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9d147111943a6a9d06fc"},{"id":"q62e1ba53761a1921ad72","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-16T07:22:53.569Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q62e1ba53761a1921ad72"},{"id":"q79c766081b99b1ef7b1d","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-16T07:23:02.432Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q79c766081b99b1ef7b1d"},{"id":"q61b4b3420a64c8628b0c","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-16T07:24:32.637Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q61b4b3420a64c8628b0c"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q9d147111943a6a9d06fc","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-06-16T07:20:30.210Z","text":"正如你所说，如果这些中国公民在把钱交给被告之前，这笔资金就已经因为涉嫌组织、资助危害国家安全活动，或者通过非法洗钱、地下钱庄等行为逃避外汇监管，触犯了中国《刑法》第107条或第64条：\n• 钱的性质在“被骗前”就已经改变：在它们离开中国、或在它们汇入被告指定的账户前，这笔钱在法律上就已经变成了**“国安涉案赃款”或“法定违禁品”**。\n• 合法所有权的剥夺：根据中国主权法律的属人管辖，这些中国公民已经失去了对这笔资金的合法持有资格。他们手里拿的是一笔“依法应当上缴中国国库的脏钱”。\n• 定罪逻辑崩塌：既然这些人在“被骗”时，对这笔钱已经没有了合法的财产利益，那么被告拿走这笔钱的行为，在法律上就变成了“黑吃黑”或“处置一笔本身就违法的政治流转资金”。美国联邦法院怎么可能去保护一笔“没有合法所有权的受害者资金”？\n如果对物的所有权都不存在，那么检方构建的“郭文贵剥夺了受害者合法财产”的整个定罪基石，就成了一句空话。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9d147111943a6a9d06fc"}}