{"id":"qbcdbb6afdfb00ed437e2","batch_id":"batch-000150","seq":239,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-23T03:59:23.608Z","text":"所以你可以把整个事情理解成：\n\n858不是“政府已经把所有东西最终拿到手”。\n\n它更像是：\n\n法院说：这些东西原则上可以没收；政府可以去执行；但第三方如果说东西是自己的，还要继续走产权程序。\n\n而郭之前还专门要求Torres法官：\n\n“你命令政府直接从Luc那里把破产资产拿走。”\n\n法院拒绝了，说自己没有权力这样强迫政府。 gov.uscourts.nysd.595325.858.0.pdf\n\n所以现在5739真正值得问的问题，其实不是：\n\n“政府为什么不直接抢Luc的资产？”\n\n而是：\n\n“政府和Luc现在自己谈一个和解，把这些资产分成‘政府的’和‘破产的’，会不会影响那些还没有裁完的第三方产权？”\n\n这个问题就很重要。\n\n尤其如果某个人已经提交§853(n)，说：\n\n“MOS里的某笔钱是我的。”\n\n结果政府和Luc现在通过5739说：\n\n“MOS的钱里，250多万美元划给破产estate。”\n\n那第三方就完全有理由问：\n\n“你们两个可以互相谈怎么分，但在我的产权还没判之前，能不能先把我主张的财产重新贴标签、转给另一边？”\n\n所以一句话总结：\n\n政府确实有权没收，但858没有要求政府马上从Luc手里强制拿走；而第三方产权仍然要另外审。5739真正敏感的地方，是政府和Luc能不能在这些第三方产权还没审完以前，先把相关资产自己分掉。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbcdbb6afdfb00ed437e2","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150/pages/2","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000150/pages/2","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbcdbb6afdfb00ed437e2","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbcdbb6afdfb00ed437e2/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qbcdbb6afdfb00ed437e2","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qbf38011342c6e2971d84","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-23T03:56:42.310Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbf38011342c6e2971d84"},{"id":"qf09b6638cfadae7b2799","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-23T03:56:53.947Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf09b6638cfadae7b2799"},{"id":"q9cf0bef1f8be6177ea34","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-23T03:59:03.138Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9cf0bef1f8be6177ea34"},{"id":"q9e6aa67697c7bc8293c4","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-23T04:14:34.657Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9e6aa67697c7bc8293c4"},{"id":"q82c6c2f90c9a050e302a","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-23T04:15:49.989Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q82c6c2f90c9a050e302a"},{"id":"q71fa4ac2c16f0f4f6a88","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-23T04:18:42.734Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q71fa4ac2c16f0f4f6a88"}],"parent_message":null}