{"id":"qc8acc9cce3a4b50bf7d6","batch_id":"batch-000129","seq":76,"speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-06-30T05:17:13.992Z","text":"反正我别的不管，就知道没收的万恶之源，在王\nTony的卷宗，可以撬动王案没收\n这个没了，整体诈骗案，没法没收整个G系列\n破产案luc，要从刑事案出局\n那么郭案没收，也没了","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"q609f16480b1a35b0d6cc","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc8acc9cce3a4b50bf7d6","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q609f16480b1a35b0d6cc","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000129","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000129","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc8acc9cce3a4b50bf7d6","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc8acc9cce3a4b50bf7d6/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qc8acc9cce3a4b50bf7d6","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q572612a7dc5f7697e8ba","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-06-30T05:03:47.712Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q572612a7dc5f7697e8ba"},{"id":"q8bde06b53a0cdb45891d","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-06-30T05:12:32.267Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q8bde06b53a0cdb45891d"},{"id":"q609f16480b1a35b0d6cc","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-06-30T05:15:52.219Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q609f16480b1a35b0d6cc"},{"id":"qf36b7295aa30efae82a2","speaker":"0x_***","date":"2026-06-30T05:18:13.050Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf36b7295aa30efae82a2"},{"id":"q24cf556985a7882ebb17","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-06-30T05:19:15.618Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q24cf556985a7882ebb17"},{"id":"q9a71e259400018c1f915","speaker":"him***","date":"2026-06-30T05:19:35.626Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9a71e259400018c1f915"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q609f16480b1a35b0d6cc","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-06-30T05:15:52.219Z","text":"我还没把858看完，发现托雷斯的逻辑是这样的：对被告的金钱判决，用被告资产和可识别财产来填充，然后G enterprise 里的钱视为被告的犯罪所得来填充，所以即使第三方证明了某一部分那不是犯罪所得，那一部分也不能从金钱判决里排除。跟着托雷斯的思路来，会把一般人绕得不知去向。本来应该先确定损失再给金钱判决，结果被它们整成先确定金钱判决，再确定损失。损失因为第三方证明所有权后变少，但金钱判决不能少。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q609f16480b1a35b0d6cc"}}