{"id":"qcd69e5e114587013b865","batch_id":"batch-000147","seq":147,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T20:48:04.996Z","text":"同时又明确说，同一 underlying funds 在中国和美国存在完全不同的 legal characterization，并主张这关系到 victim status、loss 以及 sentencing/forfeiture record。 Tony renewed Mandamus.pdf\n\n所以如果你现在要给夜神月一句最重要的答案，可以说：\n\n找到判例了。最关键的是二巡2025年的 Chastain：如果 wire fraud 的“property”基础法律上没被正确建立，错误可以直接打到 conviction，不只是 sentencing。再加 Ciminelli/Aiello，说明政府如果从一开始使用了错误的 fraud/property theory，二巡可以 vacate conviction。Yousef 则告诉我们不要把它写成 Torres 没 subject-matter jurisdiction，而应该写成 property element / due process / extraterritorial nexus。\n\n我认为这比单纯继续找 “failure to exercise discretion” 更重要，因为这组判例第一次真正给“从量刑往 trial/conviction 倒”找到了二巡现成的桥。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd69e5e114587013b865","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000147","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000147","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd69e5e114587013b865","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcd69e5e114587013b865/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qcd69e5e114587013b865","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qe006b8b5bec9c982ce9a","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T20:45:41.485Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe006b8b5bec9c982ce9a"},{"id":"q6fc15d07ac95e5a82f46","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T20:47:33.023Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q6fc15d07ac95e5a82f46"},{"id":"q5464b0a10eeb7dc78437","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T20:47:50.315Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5464b0a10eeb7dc78437"},{"id":"q1e54a28ba8588cee776f","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-08-19T20:55:22.990Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1e54a28ba8588cee776f"},{"id":"q5598f47118514f8aa676","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T20:57:07.013Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5598f47118514f8aa676"},{"id":"q3e98ed464e7e05eded1d","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-19T20:57:25.203Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q3e98ed464e7e05eded1d"}],"parent_message":null}