{"id":"qcfe797ec678742d8b61b","batch_id":"batch-000151","seq":189,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T09:01:31.960Z","text":"Robert 这段话里，有一半是对的，有一半把两种“没收”混在了一起。\n\n最先纠正一个关键点：王雁平的最终没收并不是“只有几百万”。 她在2024年5月认罪时，同意的是 $1.4 billion 的money judgment；司法部在她2025年1月量刑后也仍明确说，她“agreed to pay forfeiture in the amount of $1.4 billion”。 她另外确实同意没收若干specific property，其中包括Hamilton等账户里的具体资金，所以如果Robert说“她实际列出来属于她名下/权益的具体财产只有几百万或有限金额”，那可能是在说specific property，不是在说她的money judgment。\n\n第二，Robert说：\n\n“如果不能把于建民引渡到美国，就得找至少一个能够被抓的人来背，不然最终没收令里就得去掉。”\n\n这个法律逻辑不成立。\n\n美国刑事没收不是说“某笔GTV钱必须再找一个能抓到、能审判的人来背，否则这笔财产就自动从郭的final forfeiture里删除”。真正的问题是：\n\n政府能不能把这项specific property，依法连接到郭本人已经被判有罪的某一个count，或者连接到Count 3 money laundering所涉及的property。\n\n2026年6月30日的Supplemental Preliminary Order就是这么写的：新增specific property被主张为Counts 1、2、4、7–11的proceeds，和/或Count 3涉及的property；对Count 3部分，郭与王在王的forfeiture judgment范围内存在joint-and-several liability。\n\n所以政府不需要因为于建民不在美国，就“再抓个人”才能保住这项财产。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"qa5634ff52844a418ebb0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcfe797ec678742d8b61b","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa5634ff52844a418ebb0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000151","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000151","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcfe797ec678742d8b61b","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qcfe797ec678742d8b61b/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qcfe797ec678742d8b61b","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q752d6ea35ff7e89456d2","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T08:55:45.644Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q752d6ea35ff7e89456d2"},{"id":"q99786ca305e4046c35b1","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T08:56:07.149Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q99786ca305e4046c35b1"},{"id":"qa3d9cc40b304cf27b8a7","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T08:56:25.915Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa3d9cc40b304cf27b8a7"},{"id":"q558560fc75095135b9ad","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-25T09:02:04.472Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q558560fc75095135b9ad"},{"id":"q791fde4d3ff4e88f8471","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T09:02:09.719Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q791fde4d3ff4e88f8471"},{"id":"qb5dc8bda42fda1497bb8","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-25T09:02:46.321Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb5dc8bda42fda1497bb8"}],"parent_message":{"id":"qa5634ff52844a418ebb0","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-08-25T08:50:57.845Z","text":"王的最终没收已经明确了是几百万了，现在补充初步没收令里的gtv，如果不能把于建民引渡到美国，就得找至少一个能够被抓的人来背，不然最终没收令里就得去掉。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qa5634ff52844a418ebb0"}}