{"id":"qd249d1f041aedee889de","batch_id":"batch-000085","seq":103,"speaker":"him***","date":"2026-02-27T23:13:00.704Z","text":"[删节：成员身份]在 ECF 809 中，检察官确实暗示 § 853(n) 申请人属于他们所称的“受害者”群体的一部分，但这种表述是间接的、修辞性的，而不是正式的法律认定。\n一、关键表述出现在 ECF 809\n检方写道：\n“对于已经站出来的少数个人——无论是合作证人、§ 853(n) 申请人，还是返还申请人——这些反复的拖延并不是抽象的程序问题。” \n这句话把以下几类人放在同一组：\n合作证人\n§ 853(n) 申请人\nremission（司法部返还程序）申请人\n然后紧接着把他们描述为正在遭受拖延伤害的人群，即“受害者”。 \n二、这在法律上意味着什么\n这种写法说明：\n检方在量刑背景下，\n把 § 853(n) 申请人纳入他们所称的受害人整体范围中进行描述。\n但必须注意：\n这只是：\n一种论证性语言\n用于反对延迟量刑\n而不是：\n法院作出的法律认定\n或正式裁定所有 § 853(n) 申请人都是受害者\n三、检方在 ECF 809 其他地方也使用广义“受害者”概念\n例如他们写道：\n“继续等待正义的欺诈受害者。”\n以及：\n“所有被告的受害者应得到量刑的最终确定。” \n这些都是广义统称。\n四、重要法律区别：§ 853(n) 申请人并不自动等于受害者\n根据美国没收法律：\n§ 853(n) 申请人法律身份是：\n第三方财产权主张人\n而不是自动成为：\n刑事案件受害者\n他们可能是：\n财产所有人\n善意购买人\n债权人\n有些可能是受害者，\n有些可能不是。\nECF 809 的表述并没有改变这一法律区分。","edited":true,"reply_to":null,"reply_status":"none","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd249d1f041aedee889de","reply_url":null,"reply_label":"","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000085","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd249d1f041aedee889de","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd249d1f041aedee889de/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qd249d1f041aedee889de","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q20af440b4be9b7a691ac","speaker":"ton***","date":"2026-02-27T23:04:51.618Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q20af440b4be9b7a691ac"},{"id":"qf66fe121f57647d70e67","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-02-27T23:11:55.108Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qf66fe121f57647d70e67"},{"id":"qc693dc624930c616fb31","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-02-27T23:12:04.487Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qc693dc624930c616fb31"},{"id":"qe84e5364014cad4da3a3","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-02-27T23:22:09.932Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe84e5364014cad4da3a3"},{"id":"q29f3ba162a8681933ba0","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-02-27T23:22:17.238Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q29f3ba162a8681933ba0"},{"id":"q58d2e7ba2e61e14cad2c","speaker":"ntp***","date":"2026-02-27T23:25:07.823Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q58d2e7ba2e61e14cad2c"}],"parent_message":null}