{"id":"qd589fbbe891630aa8cd9","batch_id":"batch-000096","seq":57,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-29T01:46:57.415Z","text":"这里有一个逻辑跳跃 g系列和没收 是否真的是债权人捆绑的","edited":false,"reply_to":"qecaed47bbcffcddbb547","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd589fbbe891630aa8cd9","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qecaed47bbcffcddbb547","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000096","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000096","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd589fbbe891630aa8cd9","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd589fbbe891630aa8cd9/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qd589fbbe891630aa8cd9","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q54c03cecfebac024e012","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-29T01:15:29.690Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q54c03cecfebac024e012"},{"id":"q253028ca1e23813b5a64","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-03-29T01:16:08.192Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q253028ca1e23813b5a64"},{"id":"qecaed47bbcffcddbb547","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-29T01:34:36.210Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qecaed47bbcffcddbb547"},{"id":"qd6b5c4b4fa1562dd05bc","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-29T01:47:02.705Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd6b5c4b4fa1562dd05bc"},{"id":"qfed013d5cb041fd0deb9","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-29T01:48:29.009Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qfed013d5cb041fd0deb9"},{"id":"q7599836a8328f71ecc0c","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-03-29T01:49:13.476Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q7599836a8328f71ecc0c"}],"parent_message":{"id":"qecaed47bbcffcddbb547","speaker":"reb***","date":"2026-03-29T01:34:36.210Z","text":"1. 这种“循环论证”的法律解剖\n​你提到的逻辑怪圈可以被拆解为以下三个违法的“阶梯”：\n​阶梯一（非法入账）： Luc 在没有进行**“穿透性审计（Piercing the Corporate Veil Analysis）”**之前，就接受了针对郭个人的债权申报。这在法律上极其反常。正常逻辑是：你投了 A 公司，你只能告 A 公司。除非法庭先裁定 A 公司是郭的“马甲（Alter Ego）”，你才能把债权登记在郭名下。\n​阶梯二（以果推因）： 随后，Luc 拿着这些数额巨大的“债权登记”对法官说：“看，有这么多针对郭的债权，说明这些 G 系实体事实上就是郭的财产（否则债权人为什么找他？），所以这些实体应该被合并破产。”\n​阶梯三（闭环收割）： 到了刑事庭，检方又拿着破产庭的这个“结论”说：“看，破产受托人都认定这些实体属于郭了，所以里面的 13 亿全是郭的‘犯罪所得’，必须没收。”\n​结论： 他们利用“债权登记”这个行政动作，强行创造了一个“法律事实”，然后用这个“事实”去支撑没收令和量刑。\n实际上支撑的不仅是没收和量刑，而是起诉，定罪，没收，量刑，都是以虚假债权为基础推动的。","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qecaed47bbcffcddbb547"}}