{"id":"qd9eda01b89c882c4a553","batch_id":"batch-000166","seq":622,"speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-10-31T20:58:24.624Z","text":"［用户 joh***］ 你看看这个thread","text_en":null,"edited":true,"reply_to":"q9e9d8e9cf3763fab5cf0","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd9eda01b89c882c4a553","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9e9d8e9cf3763fab5cf0","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000166/pages/4","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000166/pages/4","notice":"这里汇集爆料革命参与者围绕郭文贵案的持续讨论，包括长期深度参与者及自述投入真金白银的投资者。他们分享亲历过程、资金投入与后续遭遇，并结合案卷展开追问、核对和观点交锋。这些来自事件内部的经验与细节，为理解事件经过和投资者处境提供了外部报道之外的重要视角。请结合具体发言判断其经历与依据，引用时保留发言者、时间和上下文。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd9eda01b89c882c4a553","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd9eda01b89c882c4a553/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qd9eda01b89c882c4a553","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"qd57cd975adfe703e3a81","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-10-31T20:57:11.952Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd57cd975adfe703e3a81"},{"id":"q9e9d8e9cf3763fab5cf0","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-10-31T20:57:17.310Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9e9d8e9cf3763fab5cf0"},{"id":"qba8085d07b362c9cff40","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-10-31T20:57:25.326Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qba8085d07b362c9cff40"},{"id":"qe9f42384f27f62849dc1","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-10-31T20:59:29.445Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qe9f42384f27f62849dc1"},{"id":"q0defb97d599910c8f65d","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-10-31T20:59:43.071Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0defb97d599910c8f65d"},{"id":"q1b93e8ba4075a837aa46","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-10-31T20:59:58.779Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q1b93e8ba4075a837aa46"}],"parent_message":{"id":"q9e9d8e9cf3763fab5cf0","speaker":"kir***","date":"2026-10-31T20:57:17.310Z","text":"这不是说他们一定不是共谋者，而是说检方不能仅凭Farm职务和组织关系，就不加区分地解释他们的所有行为和陈述。\n\n四、我认为律师真正错过了什么\n\n我会把这个问题分成两个层次。\n\n第一层：证据准入阶段的遗漏\n\nDkt. 383本来就是针对Rule 801(d)(2)(E)的Geaney审查。\n\n这是一个非常关键的时点，因为法院要判断：\n\n1. 是否存在共谋；\n2. 郭与具体陈述人是否属于共谋成员；\n3. 相关陈述是否在共谋期间并为了推进共谋而作出。\n\n辩方已经知道这些人的身份和关系存在争议，也已经在庭审中获得了Maywind、Farm追款和退款方面的证据。\n\n却没有把两者结合起来。\n\n第二层：没有把检方证人的证词转化为对检方理论的检验\n\n我认为这才是更深层的问题。\n\n律师不需要自己找到一个新的证人，也不需要等第三方提供新材料。\n\n检方已经把材料放进庭审记录了。\n。\n律师需要做的是把这些分散的证词组织起来，追问检方对共谋成员身份、资金控制和陈述目的的解释是否完整。\n\n当然，退款行为本身并不否定共谋，法院也可能认为这些退款活动仍然是在共谋体系内部进行。但辩方至少可以要求检方解释，而不是让这些事实在证据准入分析中完全缺席。\n\n⸻\n\n五、对Cronic和Strickland的意义\n\n这里我会谨慎地区分。\n\nStrickland方面：\n\n这可能构成一个具体的调查和辩护遗漏：\n\n* 相关事实已经进入庭审记录；\n* 辩方知道检方正在申请共谋者陈述准入；\n* 相关证词涉及被申请认定为共谋者的关键人物；\n* 律师没有把这些事实用于挑战检方的共谋和代理关系理论","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q9e9d8e9cf3763fab5cf0"}}