{"id":"qd9f3a53b3f1f698ff97a","batch_id":"batch-000148","seq":189,"speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T10:22:12.104Z","text":"如果Tony真的把刑事案的根本管辖基础打掉，最先垮的是刑事判决、sentence、forfeiture及其派生资产权利；Luc与政府依赖刑事案构建的资产处置体系会受到系统性冲击，但Luc独立的破产诉讼不会自动全部归零。\n\n不过，如果最后还能进一步证明：Luc的关键alter-ego/ownership案件本身大量依赖一个后来被认定无管辖权的刑事案件所产生的证据、结论或政府协作，那事情就会从“刑事案垮了”进一步扩展成“破产案相关判决是否也被污染”。这才是对Luc真正危险的第二层。","text_en":null,"edited":false,"reply_to":"qbb738d9a7f5922a9f6de","reply_status":"available","has_attachment":false,"url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd9f3a53b3f1f698ff97a","reply_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbb738d9a7f5922a9f6de","reply_label":"查看被回复的发言（跨批次）","batch_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000148","batch_canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/batches/batch-000148","notice":"围绕郭文贵案的社区讨论与观点交锋。发言仅代表讨论者观点，不等同于法院认定。","content_type":"discussion_message","canonical_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd9f3a53b3f1f698ff97a","markdown_url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd9f3a53b3f1f698ff97a/markdown","json_url":"https://mubeitech.com/api/discussion-messages/qd9f3a53b3f1f698ff97a","surrounding_messages":[{"id":"q5eaff47fa15dd6ac2227","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T10:15:26.447Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q5eaff47fa15dd6ac2227"},{"id":"q147d93e5834d5969886f","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-20T10:17:36.345Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q147d93e5834d5969886f"},{"id":"qbb738d9a7f5922a9f6de","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-20T10:20:18.603Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbb738d9a7f5922a9f6de"},{"id":"qd5d83b9309b8b0c29164","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T10:23:28.751Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qd5d83b9309b8b0c29164"},{"id":"qb5585c77fa2b6af7185a","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T10:47:21.767Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qb5585c77fa2b6af7185a"},{"id":"q0bba3b5c47baf012f956","speaker":"roy***","date":"2026-08-20T10:48:44.507Z","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/q0bba3b5c47baf012f956"}],"parent_message":{"id":"qbb738d9a7f5922a9f6de","speaker":"joh***","date":"2026-08-20T10:20:18.603Z","text":"Tony把案子管辖权缺失，给提出来，刑事案全垮，luc在郭破产案，也玩儿不下去","url":"https://mubeitech.com/discussions/messages/qbb738d9a7f5922a9f6de"}}